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Malls In California Are Sending License Plate Information To ICE (theweek.com)
Presto Vivace shares a report from The Week with the caption, "And they wonder why some of us prefer to shop online." From the report: Surveillance systems at more than 46 malls in California are capturing license plate information that is fed to Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the Electronic Frontier Foundation reported Tuesday. One company, Irvine Company Retail Properties, operates malls all over the state using a security network called Vigilant Solutions. Vigilant shares data with hundreds of law enforcement agencies, insurance companies, and debt collectors -- including ICE, which signed a contract with the security company earlier this year, reports The Verge. "[Irvine Company] is putting not only immigrants at risk, but invading the privacy of its customers by allowing a third-party to hold onto their data indefinitely," EFF wrote in its report, urging the chain of malls to stop providing information to ICE.
Really? You have a State Issued ID that MUST be affixed to your car, and you are willfully driving it and PARKING IT in public view, on private property. And that is invading privacy?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Solution: Do not come here illegally.
Illegal == Criminal.
They are not meant to be here and are actively breaking the law.
They should be turned over to the authorities like any other criminal.
Yes, it IS that simple.
I think that's a great idea.
I mean, those damned spacecraft really mess up my Wifi. You'd think an advanced civilization would have things cleaned up a bit.
Thanks for the tip.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Since malls are dying, I guess the problem will eventually solve itself. Thanks Amazon.
Here to the US.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Why defend Illegal Immigration?
or speaks something that is not English
I hope this is a joke- no one is that foolish. If you call every time you hear someone speaking a foreign language you're wasting ICE's time. Tourists, visas, legal immigrants... plenty of people don't speak English in this country for many legitimate reasons. Heck, sometimes I don't speak English.
If you're reporting everyone that doesn't speak English- you'll pretty quickly find yourself in hot water with ICE for wasting their time.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
Does anybody believe only one real estate corporation is giving away or selling this kind of information? I don't have any legal problems, but I resent being spied on.
So thanks for giving me one more good reason not to visit the US. I'll just spend my money right here in Canada, where at least some pathetic vestiges of actual freedom still survive.
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
There is no need to display your licence number when on private property, so a dash activated hinged flap could be used to hide plate data. They could snap plate data on the way into the mall, but that could involve placing the camera on someone else's private property - who might decline permission.
That said, I do not mind plate scanners being use to find stolen cars or payment defaulted cars (3 months arrears minimum)
My wife is an immigrant, is she at risk?
[Irvine Company] is putting not only immigrants at risk
No, they're not endangering anybody, which is the implication. They're making it more likely that ILLEGAL immigrants will be caught. There's a choice that they can make, which is not enter the country illegally.
I have friends who are illegal immigrants. It's difficult and I don't blame them for being here. But they know the risk that they take by even being here, and they've decided it's worth it for their kids to grow up here instead of the home country (which is a complete shithole, not the fault of the US).
The left will only continue to hurt themselves by trying to conflate legal immigration with illegal immigration. "Immigrants" don't have anything to worry about unless they're also "illegal".
Do you have ESP?
The best t-shirt I ever saw said something like this (probably not verbatim):
Se vi parolas du lingvojn, vi estas dulingva.
Se vi parolas tri lingvojn vi estas trilingva.
Se vi parolas unu lingvon vi estas usona
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
Unless you are a criminal, ICE really doesn't have any standing to hassle you if you have a Green Card. If you are a criminal, then you are by law subject to potential deportation.
Once you have become an actual immigrant, and are no longer "just visiting", then ICE no longer has any jurisdiction over you.
Data collection, aggregation, and distribution has been a thing for a long time now. It really has nothing to do with the tribal partisan hysteria du jour.
It's much like the INS in this regard.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
It's nice that the link to the actual story on eff.org is linked from the summary, but the fact is that the post on theweek added absolutely zero information to the story, and the eff.org link is the only one we need.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
A lot of the time I go into a store, people are speaking Spanish. Some of them probably are illegal, but many aren't. Including the cashier/teller who speaks it right back to them.
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
If it were any other state, I would be less sure. California seems highly permissive and tolerant of illegals. That might actually work to the benefit of ICE here. Instead of being more underground, illegals might be more out in the open and easier to identify.
Also, ICE may be aware of the offending cars regardless of what shenanigans may have occurred to register them. That's really the explanation that makes most sense.
"Fishing" through this data probably is not terribly feasible.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
I think you are a bit slow on the uptake. Imagine if *everyone* constantly reported everyone who looks like a foreign national to ICE.
Think about it a bit.
My instincts thought it read like a joke... but this is Slashdot and you never know- there is a lot of stupidity and racism on this forum, you can never be sure.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
> if you have a Green Card.
If you have a green card, you're not an illegal alien.
Thus this topic is not about you.
Why do some of you try so hard to conflate legal immigrants with illegal immigrants so much ?
"Not to mention all the idiots who use words like boxen."
Anonymous Coward on Monday August 04, @06:49PM
I saw what you did there you big goof.
He's a troll. Look at his comment history.
At least he's doing it right.
The entire history of the name discovered starts and stops in CA with that license plate. Every other part on illegal migrants interaction with the USA state/federal gov goes back to that illegal migrants document in CA.
Kind of stands out as a pattern to every other citizen and person in the USA legally.
Real people have a passport, visa, insurance, education, tax. That of a citizen, starts legally as a non citizen allowed to be in the USA.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
lots of ppl in America do not speak english.
While I believe in enforcing our laws (including the ones about presidents that are traitors or businesses that hire illegal), you are accomplishing little to nothing.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Along roads too. Some agency also takes images of drivers and passengers. Some even have the ability to collect voice prints in and out of the USA.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Heard a variant on that jokHeard a variant on that joke before, but had never seen it in Esperanto.e before, but had never seen it in Esperanto.
Yeah, I have too; seeing it in Esperanto, in America was more amusing though knowing that 99.9% of the people who saw the t-shirt would have no idea of what it said.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
I wonder if anyone would report someone wearing that as an illegal alien. LOL!
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
Democrats who want to abolish ICE are literally handing Donald Trump his reelection on a silver platter.
Let's not enforce any border laws and let's see how that turns out. Idiots.
I'm not a Trump supporter, and I'm merely a centrist, but I agree that it is a foolish platform to take.
I'm against excessive and invasive persecution and hunting for illegals. I'm not blind to the fact that we need to limit illegal immigration. My main concern is that a lot of anti-immigration is down to bigotry and nationalistic sentiment that can escalate; and has rapidly escalated many many times in many many countries throughout history. It doesn't take long to get into some McCarthyistic witch hunt for immigrants, and start finding reasons to mark legal immigrants as criminals for obscure rules and start deporting them.
It's not ICE that I oppose- ICE Is important. It's the racist sentiment behind a lot of the actions of some of the laws that I oppose. It is the nationalism that could escalate dangerously that I oppose. The more fervent the head-hunting for illegals, the more likely that legal immigrants get caught up in this- either accidentally or deliberately. Already, there are plenty of stories of legal aliens being arrested and detained for months because they're mistaken as illegals.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
FTFY
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
If this were an online activity, it would be blatantly illegal under the GDPR, because it: 1) Collects permanent, personal identifying data (license plate number) 2) Does not allow the user to opt out 3) Is not relevant to providing the user with a service (shopping) 4) Retains the data indefinitely. Should they be allowed to do this just because it is private property? Websites are privately owned too, but they are required to comply with GDPR.
I felt bad for the man who had no signature, until I met a man who had no comment.
Wouldn't that make them agents of the state and make the blanket surveillance a 4th amendment issue?
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
I wonder if anyone would report someone wearing that as an illegal alien. LOL!
Deport them back to Esperanta-Lando!
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
And they wonder why some of us prefer to shop online.
What makes you think the Delivery truck or person/drone walking up your driveway isn't equipped with a camera equipped with GPS, and/or footage won't be submitted to license plate recognition software, and shared with any Law Enforcement agency willing to pay for access to the shared database of License Plate/GPS locations?
Shoot... if ICE is willing to pay enough revenue for license plate data, they could probably convince Meter readers working for the Gas and Power companies to don a camera for a little extra $$$ on the side.
Being kind of ignorant about these things but how does one go about getting a state issued licensed place without establishing identity? how is it possible to establish identity without establishing place of birth and legal citizenship status?
Sounds like a neat trick to know, just in case I ever need it.
âoeTolerance applies only to persons, but never to truth. Intolerance applies only to truth, but never to persons.
> if you have a Green Card.
If you have a green card, you're not an illegal alien.
Thus this topic is not about you.
Why do some of you try so hard to conflate legal immigrants with illegal immigrants so much ?
Because when law enforcement get overzealous- a lot of legal immigrants end up arrested if they can't immediately prove their immigration status.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
"Born in East LA" is a comedy, not a documentary
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
Of course, the Democrats thinks we should get rid of ICE, because arresting guys like that is something Trump thinks is good, and therefore it must be opposed no matter what.
You don't need ICE to fight gang violence. We already have laws which address it. We already have law enforcement agencies which are at least as competent as ICE, not that this is saying much. A person who entered the country illegally can already be deported for felonies, and naturalized citizens can already be denaturalized and deported if they join a terrorist organization. MS-13 could end up named as one.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I don't know how it is in the people's socialist republic of California,
If you want to talk about issues relating to motor vehicles, you probably should. We have the most drivers, the most vehicles, the second-most miles of road, and the most road miles traveled by vehicles per year.
It's not a RIGHT, but a privilege, and has restrictions.
It ought to be a right since the federal government aided the auto companies in shutting down useful and even profitable public transportation systems.
Plus, unless you came here LEGALLY, you are NOT an immigrant, you are an ILLEGAL ALIEN and should be stopped, arrested and deported.
Illegal immigrants contribute substantially to America's economy. We need them here to do the jobs that Americans don't want to do, until the robots are capable of doing those jobs. Then the elite won't need the immigrants or you, and you will be momentarily embarrassed that you've been jerking them off all your life, and then you will be dead.
But, in the people's socialist republic of California, there are NO laws.
The people's socialist republic of California operates at a surplus, which is a good thing, because we are one of the states that gets raped hardest for tax money. Meanwhile, Missouri is one of the states which provides the least return on investment. In short, we here in commiefornia are footing the bill for your lifestyle. But go ahead and cry your white snowflake tears about brown people who contribute more to the nation than you do...
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
We already have laws which address it.
Right. And lefty jurisdictions are busy establishing policies that prevent those laws from being enforced. Lefty politicians are calling for the very agency that enforces those laws to be "abolished," and for people who violate those laws to be given sanctuary, free legal services, housing, protection from prosecution, etc.
Yes, a person who's here illegally CAN be deported for committing felonies. At which point thousands and thousands of them routinely, and literally just walk right back across the border, over and over again - just the way that liberal politicians like it.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
That's fine, ICE probably tagged you as "that nutjob who calls in every single brown person" early on, and now puts your calls on speaker phone for everyone at the office to laugh at while miming funny actions. Your tying up of the phone lines is more likely preventing actually "helpful" information from coming in at this point.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
The trouble is that these traits are what define "greatness" to about a quarter to a third of Americans.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
You're right. Except......
https://www.usnews.com/opinion/civil-wars/articles/2018-01-05/the-trump-administration-now-targeting-legal-immigrants
Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
All those people worried about the arrival of the surveillance state can relax.
It's already here.
You think standing matters to ICE or Border Patrol?
How credulous can you be?
You mean the people who are here ILLEGALLY, breaking the law?
You all know ICE only deals with immigration enforcement, right?
The thing that baffles me is, who on earth assumed the entire federal government wasn't getting mall video feeds for years now anyway?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
You don't need ICE to fight gang violence. We already have laws which address it.
Right. And lefty jurisdictions are busy establishing policies that prevent those laws from being enforced.
No, no they are not. Nobody is trying to establish policies that will prevent laws against gang violence from being enforced. So that's a lie.
Lefty politicians are calling for the very agency that enforces those laws to be "abolished,"
ICE is violating its mandate by abusing people outside of that mandate. If it cannot stick to what it is supposed to be doing, then yes, it should be abolished.
and for people who violate those laws to be given sanctuary, free legal services, housing, protection from prosecution, etc.
"Free legal services" are a constitutional right. It's called due process, and if you are against due process, you are the same kind of traitor as Trump. Protection from prosecution is for non-violent crimes, not violent ones, you pathetic FUD-spreader. "Sanctuary city" doesn't mean permission to commit crimes. It means a city where the police won't help ICE violate their mandate.
Yes, a person who's here illegally CAN be deported for committing felonies. At which point thousands and thousands of them routinely, and literally just walk right back across the border, over and over again
First, why do those people want to walk over the border? Answer, their country is shit, at least in part because we have been shitting on it. The war on some drugs, exporting guns to their country and in some cases placing them directly in the hands of criminals like we did in Mexico, coups and other interference in their governments... we did that. If we don't want a bunch of refugees coming across our southern border, we should stop shitting on their home nations. We don't have shitloads of Canadians streaming over our northern border, it's not an inherent property. It's something we've created.
Second, ICE deports a lot of people to Mexico whether they're Mexican or not. Mexico doesn't want them, so they don't imprison them either. So they just come back. That's also our fault, but it's directly ICE's fault. Once deported, these people are also more likely to have to cross the border on foot, because they've already spent all their money getting across the border some other way.
just the way that liberal politicians like it.
Liberals, politicians or not, would like our policies to change away from shitting on those countries, so that their people don't want to come here any more because their own country is viable. Barring that, we want to treat the people harmed by our nation's policies (and actions) like humans, because that's what humans do. What do people do on your home planet?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
You don't need ICE to fight gang violence. We already have laws which address it.
And who enforces those laws and deports criminals and illegal aliens ?
ICE.
Laws need enforcement. Enforcement requires enforcers. Don't confuse the laws with who enforces them.
"Not to mention all the idiots who use words like boxen."
Anonymous Coward on Monday August 04, @06:49PM
Esperanto is a non-evolved, made up language that should be banished.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
It will take a few generations, but now that we're banning abortion, I'm sure the American people can make up the lack of population.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Ok, I'll bite: Why? What would I get out of this?
Will you pay me?
"Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
It is easy. Try it!
Oh, wait--this is not a deterrent. This is part of legitimate law enforcement and won't be abused.
Certainly not an intimidation tactic to get the "undesirable" element off of Irvine Company's properties.
BTW, didja hear Trump's answer to the federal kidnapping program?
“Tell people not to come to our country illegally,” Trump told reporters. “That’s the solution.
But, again, it's not a deterrent. Believe me.
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick
Esperanto is a non-evolved, made up language that should be banished.
There are a couple of former world leaders who agreed with you. Hitler and Stalin both imprisoned people for speaking Esperanto.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
You misspelled "instruction manual".
Cheap storage VM.
Someone steals something. Cops or vigilantes shoot you in the face, even though you had nothing to do with the crime at all. And while they're digging the bullet out of your brain, it occurs to you: don't steal, problem solved!
Let me guess how you figured this out.. the bullet is still in there, isn't it?
What other problems have you supplied good solutions to? I think someone needs to double-check your work, just in case...
"Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
No, no they are not. Nobody is trying to establish policies that will prevent laws against gang violence from being enforced. So that's a lie.
Quit trying to be slippery. You know exactly what's going on here.
And, really, you think that rampant corruption and gang violence in El Salvador is the fault of the US? No, it's not. It's classic third world shit, as seen in countries all around the world. Someone making money smuggling money and people across our borders isn't "being hurt by our policies," they're being hurt when they get busted breaking the law.
Your eagerness to conflate genuine refugees, legal immigrants, and those who criminally cross the border means you have zero credibility on this entire topic.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
ICE shouldn't be in the business of breaking up gangs.
That's not their mission, but it is a happy byproduct of their work when large numbers of people in certain especially violent international gangs happen to be in the country illegally. How are you not clear on this? A county cop can't kick an illegal alien career criminal out of the country. ICE can.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Yeah, I have too; seeing it in Esperanto, in America was more amusing though knowing that 99.9% of the people who saw the t-shirt would have no idea of what it said.
I presume anybody who has any exposure to a romance language (e.g. Spanish) would know, which is a lot of people.
It's pretty clear to me with my limited knowledge of French.
So theoretically it's public information. IANAL but it seems legal.
I don't think the laws have really caught up with technology, as it is now possible to infer private information through careful collection of public data.
Also your average person doesn't give a shit about personal privacy, and will continue to shop at malls that do this. As long as we behave like we're OK with it, it will continue to occur.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
but who goes to shopping malls now days? Just another reason not go to the mall. FTP.
Lol. Just because you can't speak another language, doesn't mean rest of us Americans don't speak. Please keep your bigotry to yourself.
It's common sense to have the nation speak a common language, not bigotry. Please keep your name calling to yourself.
Speak English in America, or you might get deported.
What if you speak Cherokee?
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
The intelligence world in America and Europe have listened to ppl in his admin (possibly him) cutting deals with russian spies.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
And they wonder why some of us prefer to shop online.
I'd like to point out: you're tracked even more so when you shop online. At least shopping in person, you can pay cash and have no tracking of your purchase.
""[Irvine Company] is putting not only immigrants at risk, but invading the privacy of its customers by allowing a third-party to hold onto their data indefinitely,"
That makes absolutely no sense. EFF has gone full retard. Immigrants are just fine. ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS, which are very different, may get arrested but that is just a part of them breaking the law they have to deal with daily.
You don't need ICE to fight gang violence. We already have laws which address it.
Right. And lefty jurisdictions are busy establishing policies that prevent those laws from being enforced.
No, no they are not. Nobody is trying to establish policies that will prevent laws against gang violence from being enforced. So that's a lie.
Quit trying to be slippery. You know exactly what's going on here.
Yes, I do. I know exactly what's going on here: you're talking shit. You said that "lefty jurisdictions are busy establishing policies that prevent" (your quote) "laws which address" (my quote, to which you were replying) "gang violence" (also from my quote, to which you replied.) But that's not happening. If that wasn't what you meant, you should have said something else.
And, really, you think that rampant corruption and gang violence in El Salvador is the fault of the US?
Yes.
Your eagerness to conflate genuine refugees, legal immigrants, and those who criminally cross the border means you have zero credibility on this entire topic.
Your eagerness to create differences between those people who do not exist proves that you are unwilling to consider reality.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Most of the "serious" proposals I've seen to abolish ICE would devolve its enforcement powers to other agencies who handled these things before ICE was created. Nominally, this would purge the personnel complicit in the unsavory activities.
Robbed at knife point. Don't you want the police to have a list of prospects?
Unless you are a criminal, ICE really doesn't have any standing to hassle you
Do you follow the news at all? ICE agents harass people on a regular basis, whether they are US citizens or not. They can stop you and search your vehicle at any time if you’re within a certain distance of any border (including the entire east and west coast), as well as a certain distance of an international airport. They can stop and search something like 95% of the US population at any time under the current rules that they operate under. Even the ACLU talks about it though they erroneously omit international airports as a port of entry.
... the solution is to not shop there, encourage others to do the same, and let stores know why you won't shop there ...
Not its not. Most harvesting of license plate data is done by bail and repo guys. They have been cruising parking lots for many years now collecting data and selling it to these private brokers. This will happen in any parking lot. Anywhere has the possibility of logging.
Mentioning ICE was just for clickbait. The system evolved out of private industry, specifically bail and repo guys recording plates, a central database emerging, bail and repo and then the government all subscribing to it. Local and state PD have been subscribing to the private database for a long time, various feds too, ICE is quite a small part of its use.
Mexican woman hit my Son's truck, it was FIVE DAYS OLD in the parking lot. $95,000 truck. Pulled that no english shit on him, he called the cops. No license, no documents, not a US Citizen, no insurance, nothing. Where it was hit was in Virginia in one of those sanctuary places. They should have taken her to jail like they did when an illegal hit my car two decades ago not far from where this happened. I never saw a dime from that one either. At least she was deported. The estimate for this repair is $5,400. She hit him with a Lincoln Navigator and they let her go. We're sure she'll never show up again.
Why are we putting up with this? So Democrats can get a few more votes? Another friend of mine was sliced up by MS13. They used a machete. No one seems to know who did it. This is insanity. They don't care about us, do whatever they want and they're getting away with it. They're turning the US into a third world country. Wake up people, if you want the US to still be the US, we must send these people back. Otherwise you can look forward to vandalism, crime, rape, murder. When it happens to your friends, your wife, don't say you weren't warned. The real bad ones aren't from Mexico by the way. They're from war torn places in South America below Mexico. They think the guy that sliced up my friend was from Guatemala. Still at large. They grew up with people being killed all around them. They think they should do the same thing here.
Child trafficking, sex trafficking, etc. Just let it happen?
I'm no lawyer, but I wonder, what if you make up a custom license plate frame, copyright it or trademark it or whatever, then when they snag a picture of your plate and the frame is in it, and that picture is then sold for profit. . . Kind of like doing up a video for YouTube and forgetting that you have your favorite radio station on in the background.
GDPR-using countries have repeatedly ruled that license plates are personally identifying information.
California now has its own version of GDPR.
A quick summary of the rules is that PII-type data is only used for purposes relevant to the business operation, is not retained longer than necessary and is NOT passed to 3rd parties without explicit _written_ consent - signs at the parking entrance don't cut it.
Who wants to buy some popcorn shares?
Straw man.
At that point law enforcement can request the footage - and will need to, in order to trace paths and see _which_ vehicles are involved (if any, the perp may have arrived/left on foot) and what the registrations are. Only then do they have cause to lookup the registration.
"Collect the usual suspects" is fine if you live in a stratified, biased plutocracy with an aggressive paramiltary police force working on the presumption that "XYZ done it" before they even set foot out of the police station door, don't actually care about catching the actual perpetrator and are prone to doling out extrajudicial executions like some south american shithole of old. But then again if you live in the USA the evidence is increasingly clear that's exactly the kind of society that you do live in, just with a slightly shinier veneer than most.
"there are plenty of stories of legal aliens being arrested and detained for months because they're mistaken as illegals."
There are also instances of _native born_ citizens being arrested and even deported because they're mistaken as illegals.
There are also at least 2 cases of ICE having detained and separated children from _citizen_ families that are currently winding their way through the federal court system and it's not working out well for ICE, with repeated rulings of contempt being entered against them (then again, no ICE officials are being jailed for contempt, which is what actually needs to happen in order to wake them up)
This kind of stuff has echoes of another country in the 1930s up to the point where the judiciary got purged.
"California seems highly permissive and tolerant of illegals"
California (and a number of other states) used to be part of Mexico until it was forcibly taken by the USA in a war that Mexico didn't start. It was Mexican for a LOT longer than it's been part of the USA and it has a widespread Mexican heritage.
Bear that in mind when you start talking about "illegal migrants". There's a prevailing view amongst many that the label should be applied to the WASPs.