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Apple, Amazon, Google and More Than 50 Other Companies Sign Letter Against Trump Administration's Proposed Gender Definition Changes (cnbc.com)
Apple, Amazon, Facebook and Google, and dozens of other tech companies have come together to condemn discrimination against transgender people in the face of actions President Donald Trump is reportedly considering to reduce their legal protections. From a report: The move is a response to an Oct. 21 New York Times report that the Trump administration is considering limiting the definition of gender to birth genitalia. "Sex means a person's status as male or female based on immutable biological traits identifiable by or before birth," the Department of Health and Human Services proposed in a memo obtained by the Times. If legislation were to move forward, it would jeopardize legal protections for an estimated 1.4 million Americans who identify as a gender other than the one they were assigned at birth, the Times said.
The statement from the companies, which have nearly 4.8 million employees, said diversity and inclusion are good for business. "Transgender people are our beloved family members and friends, and our valued team members," the statement said. "What harms transgender people harms our companies."
The statement from the companies, which have nearly 4.8 million employees, said diversity and inclusion are good for business. "Transgender people are our beloved family members and friends, and our valued team members," the statement said. "What harms transgender people harms our companies."
Signing a letter. I guess the pen is mightier than the lawsuit.
"Made up/misattributed quote that makes me look smart. I am on
America must be doing awesome if THAT is the problem the president keeps himself busy with.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I'm sure this won't go over well here, but that was the original definition anyways. These companies weren't up in arms when the original definition was changed. Why should they be up in arms now that someone wants to change it again? And what business is it of a tech company to be concerned about this anyways. Let the employees voice their opinions on their own? Don't these companies have real work to do?
Why does the government need to be on any side of this? Can't we just keep the government out of this? This should be a private matter, much like marriage.
Obama, without statute, redefined gender to be whatever someone claims it to be. Trump changed that back to an objective standard.
How can you have fairness in Title IX protections when it's not at all clear who they apply to and I can claim that any random thing I don't like was discrimination because I identify as a unicorn and nobody can prove otherwise? Of course, that was always the point, to make these into something that would be easy to abuse, turning a standard that was supposed to promote fairness into a codification of favoritism.
I'm logic-gendered, so if you disagree with me, it's an insult to my unique gender and you deserve punishment, bigot.
Conservatives: "We want personal liberties, get the government out of our lives, freedom!"
Also Conservatives: "Thank god we have the Government telling people how they are allowed to identify themselves."
Nice! We talk about Unix and eunuchs here.
Oh. Goodie. This ancient story. I was vaguely surprised it never hit SJWdot when it first broke weeks ago.
Guess what: the Trump administration isn't changing anything. What they're doing is clarifying that the definition of "sex" and "gender" is the same dictionary definition that we've used for centuries, prior to Millennials deciding that words have no meaning. That's it. He's undoing leftist newspeak and making sure that words having meanings.
Rules should benefit 0.01% of the population, because they matter most. Everyone else should change behavior and culture and their understanding of nature and the world to make these 0.01% of people feel comfortable.
The rest of us can expect nothing in return for the effort to accommodate the 0.01% of people who matter.
We're going back to the more objective terminology, sex, that we haven't had since a whole 8 years ago. What is the world coming to!
Americans look a bit strange, almost like mentally sick.
If your sex defines your status then we don't have the equality we keep saying we have. Shouldn't we work more towards getting THAT in order and leave gender as simply a physical trait similar to 'has two arms'?
-=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
One that is based on birth (which there would possible be three so to include hermaphrodites) and one that is regarding personal choice. i.e. male/transgender, female/female, etc... there are good reasons to identify birth gender and personal choice.
Transgender is a lie. Getting surgeries, chopping off your weewee (optional of course) and taking hormones does not mean you're now a woman. It means you look like a woman (sort of, some cases are definitely better than others). Sorry my fellow liberals but I just can't get behind this trans movement. People with gender dysphoria should be treated for their mental disorder in a different way than sex 'reassignment'. Let's quit lying to ourselves and each other. Dudes are dudes and dudettes are dudettes. The only people with a legitimate case for benefiting from sex (re)assignment are those who were born with ambiguous genitalia.
In 2016, NYC had to release a list of 31 recognized genders, and even that wasn't enough for some, so they had to expand it even further.
How the fuck are you even supposed to put that on a form??
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
How does gender affect your legal protection? Does the law have different considerations for each gender?
Any other gender besides Male or Female is a lie.
I go to the girls bathroom and have "lesbian" sex with other girls who think I'm a guy.
But worse since the proof that men and women aren't identical and sex chromosomes exist is before your very eyes on a daily basis and its also almost a state enforced religion too. Oh and before you reply 'LOL XXY'. The fact that biological intersexuals exist actually destroys gender theory since it shows that sex is biological and not due to society its not fluid or up to imagination and not a spectrum. At most its two really big bins and a few very rare other bins.
Some AC brought up the same issue below - only in regards to the companies suing. I guess they are doing really awesome when they can waste funds on a lawsuit like this.
Also I really doubt Trump personally has put more than about five minutes of effort into this, if that. It's nice of you to help spread campaign propaganda though.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
"We received a Letter Against today". "OMG, was it signed, too"? "Yes it was"! "Oh crap, we are screwed now"!
If you can see one lie, you can see another. Why do so many entities promote the eunuch lie? You'll find there's more things to agree on yet.
What is Winter Sunlight?
Why does the government need to assign/recognize gender now? Its not like anyone has more/less rights due to their gender. Women are now allowed to own property, serve in the military, etc. If the govt didn't bother recognizing gender, it would save a lot of time, money, and those arguments. And I honestly don't care who is using what bathroom. If some woman feels like a man and wants to use the men's room, I don't care. And if some man feels like a woman and wants to use the ladies' room, that's fine too. It still doesn't give them the right to molest or attack someone. And I honestly don't believe the current laws are what keeps most perverts from exploiting this now.
But I don't think the govt should recognize marriage either. Ending marriage recognition would end the debate over who can get married. Do whatever you want in your church, temple, or backyard shack. Make whatever legal agreements with whoever you choose. I don't care or need to know about it.
Sure, ending recognition of gender and/or marriage will complicate some other issues, but it would stop this never-ending debate over who is what and what should be allowed.
Ninjas don't carry tic tacs
People with gender dysphoria should be treated for their mental disorder in a different way than sex 'reassignment'./quote>
To be fair, hormones are the only drugs we have to treat gender dysphoria. It's not like we're doing that instead of working psychiatric drugs. Still, it's a terrible treatment given the immense suicide rate for people who have had the surgeries. It a treatment with a 60% 10-year survival rate, IIRC (due to suicide), clearly not good enough.
It's a good thing conversion therapy is illegal in California. Oh, wait, it's only the other kind of conversion therapy that's illegal, not this kind.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
at least according to the poster at work, I can identify as any gender, I don't need to prove anything, and I'm protected by the law in doing so.
So I can literally change my identity every other second, or as so benefits me. Lots of fun trolling opportunities too (and if you claim I'm trolling, I can claim discrimination lol).
Not enough gender diversity? Employees can just claim to be the other gender temporarily -- problem solved.
"Sorry my fellow liberals but I just can't get behind this trans movement."
Not a problem. We ain't gonna miss you anyway.
I don't get this crap about companies complaining that the government is just resetting the rules. How does it affect them? They are perfectly free to institute whatever policies or rules in this regard they choose to implement just like many businesses had already moved to genderless restrooms.
What the hell difference does it make to these companies and their BS diversity crap? Are they saying because the feds changed the definition they won't be able to claim a more diverse workforce?
All this is is the same leftists companies opposing something the Trump administration proposes because it is the Trump admin proposing it.
captcha: uncouth
As the OP: I'm fine with Unix and Unix-like operating systems. I'm partial to OpenBSD myself. But it seems to be that these tech companies are more interested in Eunichs. This isn't "news for nerds" anymore. Slashdot is "DNC reading for techies." Grrr.
Why is there an assumption that scientists, engineers, and nerds are on board with all that stuff? It's anti-logic and anti-reality.
The move is a response to an Oct. 21 New York Times report that the Trump administration is considering limiting the definition of gender to birth genitalia. "Sex means a person's status as male or female based on immutable biological traits identifiable by or before birth,"
So are they trying to define gender or are they trying to define sex? And why is it that I seem to be the only one who noticed that?
orangeman transphobic. orangeman bad.
https://www.realclearpolitics....
Indeed, gender—whether we subjectively feel male or female—is biological, not a social construct. An extremely large and consistent body of scientific research has shown that gender is the result of prenatal hormone exposure, even in the case of intersex individuals, as opposed to adults and society imposing gendered norms on unsuspecting children from the moment they leave the womb.
Stop using "woke". It truly shows your ignorance.
The only trans movement I can't agree with is trans-fats.
#DeleteFacebook
I don't give a shit if a man wants to live as a woman or vice-versa.
I don't care if someone wants to mutilate their genitals.
I don't care if someone wants to call themselves some newly invented "gender" and live a certain way.
What they do in the privacy of their own life is their own business.
But science says there are two genders. PERIOD. There is one other state, biological intersex, where the person has BOTH. But it's a mutation and rare to boot (maybe as high as 1.7%).
Also, the government should not be expected to subsidize these people's lifestyle choices in their documentation. Nor should someone be able to go back years later, cross things out, and scribble "Whatever!" in the margins.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Watch transexuals compete in sports as women. They'll dominate and rise to the top, possibly setting now worlds records in women's sporting events.
It's a complete shitshow.
All that's happening is that an objective, legal standard is being observed for something to have meaning.
There's absolutely nothing in there that says a company cannot do all it wants to be fully accepting of LGBT people (and I strongly suspect that this will happen anyway, due to legislation in other areas).
It's not somehow saying "You're not allowed to be transgender". You're still perfectly within your rights to be one legal sex, and present an entirely separate gender to the world, and people are savvy enough these days (in the main) to treat that at face value, and get on with life, with a nod to their choice.
This is not taking away any right. It's making a legal definition mean something again.
This is much like the "blind leading the blind", except it's the greedy and morally bankrupt trying to shame the greedy and morally bankrupt.
Ridiculous!
Lol... pretty sure you need as many people as possible to help the "liberal cause". It is clear America is sick of this pandering.
This is a complete non-issue because in a world with CRISPR, there are no immutable biological traits and therefore a definition that uses that wording is meaningless.
OK I'm not particularly thrilled with this in general and get people want to identify as whichever gender they feel fits them and I'm more than happy to let people choose for themselves, but "reduce their legal protections"? Yeah this prevents them from choosing to change their gender identity but I'm honestly curious what legal protections forcing someone to identify as their birth, rather than chosen gender, is preventing?
(White hetro male born and remains this way so my opinion or lack of understanding may mean precisely squat)
People who deal with only 0 and 1, can't figure out gender..
There is a difference between sex (genetic and physical characteristics) and gender (social norms attached to such differences). The fact that the NYT of all places are conflating the two is to drum up clicks by angry leftists and to look 'woke'. Even the Department of Health and Human Services memo mentioned sex specifically! I guess you could argue that there should be 3 entries for sex: male, female, and other to handle certain very rare genetic and physical disorders. When a doctor asks you if you are male or female they mean if you got a dick and more testosterone or a vagina and more estrogen. This whole debate is stupid. It is not erasing trans people. Having body dysphoria is traumatic, and the fact that the left makes such light of it is almost as sickening (though not as much as those that abuse trans people). Not every person who transitions ends up happy with the decision. The suicide rates of such people are high, and I imagine that actual bullying is less of an issue there than not feeling like your body is your own. They need help. Also, your pre-pubescent kid is probably not trans and we shouldn't hold a parade for them.
There's two genders, period... mental illness doesn't change that. Sign your letters, throw your tantrums... there's still two genders.
You incorrectly state that science says there are two genders PERIOD and then immediately contradict yourself? There's also more nuance and variety to the intersex states than you describe.
Jewish.
As a trans person it feels like my government is trying to erase me. I appreciate these companies doing this and making me feel safer. Also good god these comments, is *everyone* on slashdot anti-trans? Do you know any trans people in person?
Trump identifies as someone who identifies others as only having 1 of 2 genders.
Flamebait. Wow. I can't even just make an honest statement and argue my position without being 'flamebait'. Sure. Whatever you say.
or did you misread the summary?
You're misusing the word status. In this context it refers to the "status of being male or female". e.g. the fact of whether you are, legally, male or female. Not the relative social position of a person.
The left say you should be able to identify as either sex since both sexes are equal under the law. e.g. it makes no difference how you Identify.
The right, usually for religious reasons (or, let's be honest, just to rile up the base) say that your sex is determined at birth (usually by some sort of Creator God) and that to suggest you identify as a different sex is morally and objectively wrong.
Also, brilliant pivot on "gender as a physical trait". I almost missed it. You're subtly suggestion gender is a binary. If you had transgendered friends you'd know it is not. Yes, it's a physical trait. A very, very complex physical trait made up of dozens of chemical reactions, thought processes and biological functions. It's quite a bit more than "has two arms" or "male and female".
Again, I've got close friends who are trans and have a good grasp on what they've been through.
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Die inside your safe space
I mean, it's built right into HTML for Pete's sake. If you're using Angular I can point you to a good guide on how to wire it up to a model.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
You know the phenomenon where people who know very little about a subject believe they are masters? That is you.
There are only two genders. There is no reason for further debate.
I do not belong to the church of the lowercase 'i'
Not quite. The field of sociology makes a distinction between sex and gender. Sex is the simple biological part to which you refer: Male or female, and in a very small percentage of cases intersex. Gender is the social expression and recognition of sex, and it's a lot more complicated and flexible - gender is what determines how you should dress, which jobs you are expected to go into or to avoid, which restroom you can enter, and if you are socially allowed to carry a handbag. Usually sex and gender are in clear alignment, and everyone is happy - people know their place and how to behave. When they do not align, unpleasantness happens.
And they don't appreciate being told lies and expected to accept it as truth.
not activists. We've found that gender is a lot more complex than we though. Hormone levels have a huge impact on how we act and interact and those can vary wildly.
This actually brings up an interesting point: A lot of transgender people are that way because of hormonal imbalances. Right now we can't really fix those because we don't have a reliable way to test for them when you're young. By the time we're aware it's happening it's too late to fix. But eventually that'll change. We'll be able to identify gender fluid people when their born (or at least folks likely to have the specific genetic markers and issues related to it) and make corrections. But should we?
There was a story where disabled people having kids faced a bit of a problem because their kids would be healthy. With a blind kid it's not so bad, but with Dwarfs they wanted children like them. In the end I think all of them said they would choose for the children to be normal given the chance. And that's understandable given the disadvantages of even something like Dwarfism. But it raises some interesting questions. And of course, what happens if we start making improvements?
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But science says there are two genders. PERIOD. There is one other state, biological intersex, where the person has BOTH. But it's a mutation and rare to boot (maybe as high as 1.7%).
Insists that science says there are two genders. Immediately notes that science identifies more than two genders.
same as this. He's riling his base so they'll go vote.
What pissed me off is the way he's doing is divides the nation and encourages violence. Meanwhile he's cutting programs to fight domestic terror which just so happens to come mostly from the right.
As they say on Fark, screw this timeline.
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Which is what YOUR kind of people do. There are two sexes. Period. Everything else is what we would call scientific oddities. Physics says these accidents will happen from time to time, and they do. But they aren't things you shape your society around. Put 'em in your papers, win your self-aggrandizing circle-jerk prizes, and stay out of polite society. Thank you!
How does your company tell if it is diverse, if everyone is free to self-identify as whatever they 'feel' like? If I want to self-identify as a old female, black lesbian (even if I am a young white heterosexual man) does the company that hires me get to check 4 boxes off in its 'diversity compliance report'? Do I get to claim preferential status in the hiring process or claim discrimination if you won't hire me? If you think I should not be able to self-identify as female, black, or homosexual; are you racist, sexist, and homophobic for denying me my personal preference? Just trying to get the rules straight in this crazy (er, mentally challenged) world.
You're prejudiced against the overweight transgender community? Shame on you!
Way to install your values onto a term that has no involvment in what we're talking about.
Is Trump's move also "common sense"?
I ignore Anonymous Coward posts. If you want to discuss something, that's awesome. Log in.
I'm tired of this crap. Gender should be base don birth. If you can't deal with it then you are a freak. We should send them all out to a remote island.
Good luck reproducing.. Darwanism will purge them.
We are raising a generation of wimps. Damn.. With the Metoo crrap, political left crap, and the gender confused idiots. My parents generation had it right.
I did a great job raising my sons. They know they are men. They have seet girlfriends too
From a data design viewpoint, I say don't force something into type Boolean that may not be Boolean, and don't force anything into a single column that may be multiple columns.
For forensic reasons, a person's "plumbing" may be one thing, but the person may prefer (or changed into) a different gender identity, including maybe "none" or "other".
Thus, if it's a social context, track their preferred status, but track different for forensic purposes. The gov't shouldn't be in the business for forcing a social classification into pre-defined boxes. Tell the religious fanatics to shove it up their plumbing.
Insurance companies are sometimes allowed to charge "males" more, but this seems like discrimination and profiling to me.
Now if there's ever required military service for a real war, that's a sticky one. Maybe everyone could be subject to draft, but the military can select based on qualifications and needs, not gender. A lot of military activity is not necessarily field combat, especially in the age of remote-controlled drones and bots. And there are physically strong females and weak/out-of-shape males.
Table-ized A.I.
I'm not arguing for or against. But we need to consider the impact of dumping binary genders. I'll focus on Title IX. Let's say I'm a boy that is very good at soccer but not good enough for a scholarship. I can beat most girls and if I was a girl, I'd likely get a sports scholarship. Hmmm... I suddenly decide I'm a girl and apply. I get the scholarship. play for 4-years and then decide, after graduation, that I was wrong and I'm a boy after all. Nothing to prevent that.
There are lots of laws giving women extra rights and benefits. If any man, at any time, can declare he is a woman, those extra rights are worthless. Are we prepared to take away from the women what they have fought so hard for?
Watch transexuals compete in sports as women.
It's already happening. "Trans female" wrestlers are these big jacked up dudes who 'transition' and then go wrestle actual females and completely destroy them. Total sham. Men can't become women.
Science definitely does not say that. Science says it's complicated. Genetically we associate maleness with having a y chromosome, but there are XX people who are male by pretty much any other measure, and XY people who are female. Embryology tells us that sexual characteristics are strongly influenced by the hormonal environment in the womb, which is in turn influenced by all sorts of things. If you expand to other species, there's pretty good evidence that at least some cat mothers can influence the sex of their unborn kittens, and do so based on environmental stress. In other species sex might be assigned by things like the temperature. Some species, famously, can switch, even in adulthood.
In humans there was an idea that every fetus starts out female, then some develop male characteristics. Not surprisingly, it's more complicated than that. Every fetus basically has both sets of sex organs, and it seems that a complicated orchestra of hormones and signalling proteins is required to fully develop either set of organs (and suppress the other).
And that's physical sex. Science supports the idea that gender is, if anything, even more complicated, and equally "real."
Donald didn't used to have issues with gender flexing, thus it appears he's playing politics and kissing up* to the GOP religious base.
* No pun intended.
Table-ized A.I.
Firstly, thank you. I appreciate the help.
As a 52 year old transsexual person, who transitioned more than 25 years ago. I have experienced a lot of discrimination, bigotry, and violence because I am a transsexual person.
It is my hope that those who follow me will have an easier and safer life than I did.
https://www.youtube.com/c/BrendaEM
sociology
He said science.
In the mid 1970s, when I published the TriSexual Review, our kind were rarely discovered and poorly understood. Without the internet as a means to discreetly find each other it was rare for one of us to ever meet another. We were surely one of the smallest minorities on earth and that is possibly why the print publication failed after the first issue.
A clever researcher today could find us online. We, individually, discover the trisexual links only after exhaustive effort driven by extreme loneliness. We try scores of keywords that humans would probably never search for. There's no telling how many trisexuals out there have still not found our online home.
Because we are basically incompatible with normal human anatomy we are shunned in any attempt at sexual encounters. We could give some pleasure to both males and females, but neither are willing to engage once they see our unusual configuration of equipment. Sadly, even if humans were willing, it is unlikely that we would receive as good as we give. Only the luckiest of us will ever know the joy of connibulation with two of our own.
We've even been excluded from the LGBTQetc community; they think we are strange. It's not just that they already have a 'T' in their name; we don't have to use T, we would accept '3' for our part. No, they just don't like us crowding the ever growing list of letters or perhaps due to the fact that there are too few of us to contribute to their huge political action fund.
Which bathrooms do trisexuals use? Next time you meet someone who might be trisexual, engage in a thoughtful conversation. Demonstrate that you're not a hater, a bigot, a Trump supporter. If you seem like an open minded individual, it might answer the bathroom question for you.
...omphaloskepsis often...
Why not keep ID of people and the government registery to a strict biological fact ?
Although there are some strange situations (X0, XXX, XXY, XYY), the vast majority of people are either XX or XY. This is something that can't be changed and, as such, is part of WHAT YOU ARE... And which could be used to register you in official records.
BTW, in some countries, the people are assigned an unique AND IMMUTABLE number at birth. That number may include your birthdate but also your birth gender... And people who are changing their gender during their life don't get a new number assigned to them...
Official records are there to keep track of people... These are meant to be hard fact (birthdate, sex, filiation, ...) not personnal preferences...
If sex is not the same as gender, then why are people wanting to apply the definitions of gender to the Title IX law? The law addresses sex, exclusively.
Can't have it both ways. Pick one.
"We receive as friendly that which agrees with, we resist with dislike that which opposes us" - Faraday
People have turned this in to a freak show. Gender dysphoria is neither trendy nor fashionable. It's f**king miserable. They wanted a reaction, yet another reason to call Trump an asshole. They've got it.
Back in Ye Olden Tymes gender transition was a medical thing, sorted out, then people quietly dropped out of sight and got on with their lives. There was an expectation that you would blend in well as your identified sex, and it was made clear that being visibly gender variant would make your life more difficult.
I blended in well, almost model material. People who knew my history compared me favourably with Caroline "Tula" Cossey. Those who didn't, Cindy Crawford. Thirty five years later I'm a tall middle-aged woman who enjoys life. Am I really a woman? Not something I lose a great deal of sleep over. Whatever I am, whatever I've got, it's awfully good. I'll take it.
I'm not a U.S. citizen, nor am I a U.S. resident. I live in a jurisdiction that issues new birth certificates. I don't give a crap what my birth certificate says, as long as my day-to-day id says something reasonable.
Gender has always been used interchangeably with sex in the field of biology. What you want to call gender was originally, and still should be, referred to as "gender identity". If sociologists want to call "gender identity" "gender", it is to try to appease transgender people suffering from body dysmorphia. People can identify with whatever they want, but that doesn't mean everyone should have to redefine words to pretend they are something they are not. So... it is called "gender identity" NOT "gender"
I'm told that the applicable Woke Rule is "healthy at any size!" This is separate from the "obesity crisis" because shut up.
So, we can just ask the person to divulge their sex and never mention gender and everything's cool, right?
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
Sociology is unscientific bullshit.
Infact, the word "gender" was synonymous with "sex" up until the mid 1960's, in which feminists and "gender studies" professors started to redefine it as something different in order to further their ideas that gender was "socially constructed" in some way. We've all be duped. Gender isn't socially constructed and shouldn't be thought of that way. They were successful in their attempts to change peoples perception of the word.
To be fair, he said science, not sociology
The problem is then opening the door to gay being treated as a mental disorder. We even cured it in a man in the 70s using an unethical experiment. Basically he received electrodes in the amygdala to stimulate the pleasure centers and was asked to have sex with female prostitutes while the electrodes were activated. He was cured of his gay after a few sessions and would willingly have sex with women without the implants active.
By treating it as a disease and not just the way someone is, you open the door to investigating this kind of treatment. And if we start there, how many weird fetishes do we reclassify as mental disorders? What about transvestites? Bi?
I think our current definition of mental disorder is fine. Loosely it is any set of behaviors with a physical cause that can lead to harm to the individual or others.
unless you define "regular guy" as somebody whose dad funneled millions of dollars through him when he was a kid to dodge taxes. Me? I'm a regular guy and I was lucky to get a couple books and a Nintendo from my Dad. I also don't go out of my way to be a jerk to transgender people to score cheap political points with my base. Go figure.
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Transgender is mental illness. Sex changing and taking hormones is self abuse. We need to protect those who are hell bent in harming themselves.
What is the survival rate of people who want surgeries but can't afford them? Higher or lower? If lower, that would suggest they do more harm than good.
I'm sorry, xir.
âoeHello, I am a foreigner born in [insert a country name here] that define myself as a female American, so by all rights your people are declaring around âoeself definitionâ, I want my US passport and citizenship mailed no longer than 15 days after this notice. And by the way, Iâ(TM)m married with another woman and as Americans, she too have the same rights as I do.â
What happened to the world?
apparently you have a problem with the word penis. By the way that is the medical term.
In the political philosophy of right-wing freedom, freedom below the belt extends to your wallet, but not your jewels—except as assessed an independent, government-certified authority, before you even gain the use of language.
Solution: anything that looks like a malformed testicle, or a malformed penis, should be expeditiously lopped off, while it's too small to matter.
Once this enlightened policy rolls out for fifteen years, washrooms should all be promptly relabeled "him" and "harem".
Problem solved.
According to the statistics I have seen, "born with ambiguous genitalia" occurs at a rate of 1 per 1000 births. That is millions of people. We are supposed to ignore their plight, just because it offends you?
Science says nothing about genders. Science says a lot about biological sex, and even there, there aren't just two, although the vast majority are either biologically male or biologically female. By way of counterexample, I have friends who are intersex - born with both sets of plumbing, so to speak.
Finding God in a Dog
Well, that depends on what scale you're looking at, doesn't it? Chemicals don't have social rules, and neither does energy. But people - people have social rules.
Finding God in a Dog
Lol. What a joke.
I thought sex and gender were not the same thing.
fsdsdfdfsfsd
According to the statistics I have seen, "born with ambiguous genitalia" occurs at a rate of 1 per 1000 births. That is millions of people. We are supposed to ignore their plight, just because it offends you?
I literally said "The only people with a legitimate case for benefiting from sex (re)assignment are those who were born with ambiguous genitalia." and somehow you're responding as though that's the opposite of what I said LMAO learn to read.
This is just disguised bigotry. Unless someone's forcing surgery or hormones on you(which is a whole nother kind of abuse); what others do doesn't affect you.
They deserve their rights, and safeguards from religious bigots.
I would say that it is sex that determines which bathroom you use.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
Yeah, but sociology isn't science.
Sociology: The Softest of Sciences
XX people are women. Genitalia size, musculature and hair occur along a continuum. The ACTUAL fact that XX is female remains. No viable sperm and no testes. SO not male. The rest are just secondary sex traits. Your confusion would allow us to categorize Trump as a woman because he has tits. It is utter nonsense.
Just because SOME social scientists have chosen to go the route of confusion rather than objective simplicity does not make it "science." When a "science" can declare things like the US was not born of Western Civilization(uhhh,,,colonies) or that there never was any such thing as western civilization then it really isn't a science. The proper term is social STUDIES. They are disciplines just as math is a discipline. Not science. Now some science may be performed and encompassed by the social study disciplines but spitting out 32 or more arbitrary definitions of gender is NOT science by the standards of anyone that knows and respects what science is.
I support many of these companies only in this. It infuriates me that the government tries to reduce every human to only two genders. This isn't 50 years ago where people, due to religious reasons *cough*, stood by just male and female (whatever those really are) as "real" genders where scientifically it shown there are multiple physical genders and the audacity to deny those who don't fit the "religious" male and female ideas (which is all male and female is; a label and an idea not real physical gender types) is terrible. I hope this is enough push to change and fight against the ridiculous notion of just two genders!
""Sex means a person's status as male or female based on immutable biological traits identifiable by or before birth," the Department of Health and Human Services proposed in a memo obtained by the Times."
So all "persons" are therefore Female since all foetuses start out as female and only change to male part way though gestation.
What a bunch of maroons ...
People with XX chromosomes can have normal male genitalia, including testicles. So your classification comes down to producing viable sperm. The male infertility rate in the US is around 9%. Since you argue there are only two sexes, those people are female?
I'm not sure you know what science is. Which wouldn't be terribly uncommon on the Internet.
Thereâ(TM)s no such thing as âoegender reassignment surgeryâ. Thereâ(TM)s just dick removal surgery. You donâ(TM)t get a functioning vagina, uterus or ovaries, so youâ(TM)re still not âoefemaleâ.
I give zero shits where they stand. This article just pisses me off. Companies need to shut the fuck up and stay out of politics.
Pretty much everything you said about sociology was subjective.
Imagine if physicists said "one meter is about as long as you normally reach with the hand that you prefer, or, if you want, as long as a rope that you want to use to measure with"... That really means "one meter is however long you want and is thus completely useless as a unit of measure".
Either sociology is not a science or it doesn't matter what sociology and sociologists have to say here because even if sociology was a science it has nothing useful to say.
In Australia we're already starting to see trans footballers whining about being dropped from the womens side after single handedly smashing half the opposing female team into the dirt.
Fucking ridiculous.
Gender is the social expression and recognition of sex
That's fine. But our laws are written regarding sex, not gender. If we want to change the laws, that's fine too. It's a long and arduous process to change laws. That's how our founding parents (see what I did there) wanted it. Change is supposed to come slowly and deliberately so we are not subject to mob rules.
As many others have noted, if we want to remove the notion of sex from laws all together, you can do that too. See above.
10% of the Dutch are fags ?
Wtf ? Serious ?
I know most of the muslims are fags, but that really surprises me about the Dutch.
It's no joke. The dutch have the highest known frequency of homosexual behavior than any other nation. Prostitution and recreational drugs are legal, and were long overlooked before they became legal there. Lots of social problems abrewing there.
Around 1.5-2%* of humans are born with some amount of intersex characteristics. That makes it about as common as red hair.
Often they don't even know until much later in life, e.g. women who can't conceive because they have internal testes instead of ovaries, or never find out.
All humans start off female, and around half become male in the womb. Sometimes the change doesn't affect all parts of their bodies. This is uncontroversial medical science, there are numerous examples you can see for yourself in medical textbooks.
So is it really that hard to imagine that a person's brain may not match other parts of their body too? Why can it only be the reproductive system or other random parts, but not the brain? Why can't they have a mostly male body but female reproductive organs?
* There is some debate about this, but even the low estimates are a very significant number of people.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
I am all for it. I think:
Women should have to register for the draft, just like men.
We should abolish laws that give women-owned businesses special tax incentives.
We should abolish laws like the california requirement that corporate boards of directors be 50% women.
We should abolish scholarships and free educational programs that are exclusive to women.
We should give men a way to opt-out of child support payments (women have ways to do this: adoption and abortion).
Naw, the progresives have split sex and gender into two different things. Sex is biological, gender is all in your head. I'm not sure I buy into it, but he's saying there's just male and female genders while acknowledging there are genetic mutations involving sex. So he's socially progressive, informed on the biology, and the conservatives would probably be able to get behind his stance as it more or less conforms to past usage. Yeah alright, upmod.
> So if someone is born biologically male, gets gender reassignment surgery because psychologically they're female, and now they feel like what they are is normal, the government is supposed to treat them as male anyway?
Well, for one, it's *sex* reassignment surgery and even that is a misnomer, because all they can do is try to repair or detach their existing genitals. If they simply wanted to reassign their *gender* they can say they're whatever and thanks to the magic of gender studies, they're a unicorn... except, not really.
> What could POSSIBLY go wrong!?
Most likely they'll commit suicide because they know their bodies are broken, there's little anyone can do about it. How far society goes in playing make believe with them isn't the real issue, it's the fact that an enjoyable sex life is probably out of reach for them that seems to cause a lot of the stress.
> Or are they supposed to not get the surgery and 'pretend' to be a man their whole lives, even though they go through life feeling like they're living a lie?
Psychological help might do them more good, there's quite a lot of regret with transitioning. The minority of people born with deformed genitals should try to have them repaired as best they can be in order to attempt to live a normal life so that maybe they don't kill themselves in despair, but those with otherwise functional bodies face little more than regret by going down this route and society has no business encouraging that.
We don't really give a crap whether they think they're dragons or whatever, we just want to keep grown men out of the little girls' rooms and not have to feed the insanity. They can use the single-person rooms that are more common now, anyway.
Intersex is not a "gender".
It's a form of birth defect.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Intersex isn't a gender though.
It's a birth defect.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Yes. What you're talking about isn't a "male".
You're talking about a person with a birth defect.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Apple, Amazon, Google and More Than 50 Other Companies Engage in Virtue Signalling
Given the level of awareness present in this comment thread, I can tell my slashdot karma isn't going to get any better. I am transgender and my slashdot ID is lower than almost all you ignorant phobes.
The field of sociology makes a distinction between sex and gender.
The GP said "science". Sociology is less a science and more a publicly-funded lobby group.
You're the one insisting there are only two sexes. Maintaining that position quickly dissolves into nonsense, which you've quite ably demonstrated.
There are only two you fucking retard. The fact that some freaks people are born with a super position of both doesn’t change the crack there are only two sexes dumbass.
Refer to people with the sex pronoun they were born with, not the gender pronoun they invented.
Gender/Sex is one thing, The sexual organs you have and your ability to carry a fetus in the womb. It is not how you feel today and change 5 times though out your lifetime depending on how you "feel"
These companies do not need govt definitions to protect their transgender employees, write your own company policies to protect these employees if you feel that strongly about it. Same way many companies provided health insurance for same sex couples by allowing domestic partners on health plans. Way before there was a legal govt definition of same sex marriage. companies wrote this into their own policies.
If the SJWs get their way the next forms we fill out for the govt will be one page of what the form actually needs, and 20 pages of every permutation of gender the SJWs can come up with and have to be updated on a weekly basis as they make more new permutations.
while Trump is busy doing this he's doing nothing to curtail the abuses of the H1-B visa program. You know, like he promised to do during his campaign. And don't tell me he needs Congress. Obama put several pro H1-B executive orders through (most notably allowing their spouses to work, which puts downward pressure on their wages since they can count on income from their spouses) that Trump could kill with the stroke of a pen.
Again, funny how when he can rile his base with social issues that don't cost him a dime he's all over it, but when it's time to stand up for workers it's always "later".
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with "incapable of coherent thought". We made the same mistake with Bush Jr and it cost us $2 trillion, the respect of the rest of the world and New Orleans.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
it's hard to get folks to vote in this country. We've got lots and lots of voter suppression (lots of places you get Jury duty if you vote and folks can't afford the time away from work). The young'uns don't see the point since nothing ever seems to change, and they make you vote on a Tuesday (again, voter suppression) when you're tired and working on term papers or your second job or both.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
when you pry it from my cold, dead, absolutely fabulous hands.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
when you pry it [google.com] from my cold, dead, absolutely fabulous hands.
Also I posted this to the wrong point in the thread. Curse you clicky scroll button!
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
> We've found that gender is a lot more complex than we though.
They've "discovered" that gender is whatever you say it is through the magic of ethnography (i.e. I'll write down how I feel about X and call it a study) and similar nonsense. Given that only useless activists bothered to "study" this in the first place, likely as a result of wanting to take easy classes involving sexual themes to get a degree, the results are pretty much predictable. This post itself self-identifies as an ethnography, so feel free to deride the very basis of your "studies." Oh, I guess you also have the joke study on dog rapes that won awards from a top journal... until it was outed as a hoax. Just so you're aware, it's only considered "science" if you follow the scientific method and produce testable hypotheses. No, we're not going to let you deconstruct the term.
Gender is more properly considered as art than science. What they've done is to turn it into a cultural construct that people use to express themselves and someone's gender isn't something you can determine without asking them, given that people can "present" as whatever, so it's been divorced from the material world studied by science. We usually call means of expression arts, not sciences, and it's past time to reclassify it properly.
Concrete and undeniable huh? Well, I'm up to the challenge.
Everything you said is true, and none of it actually matters. The fact that people in a society associate certain colors, items, objects, or even words, with a certain sex does not mean that gender is socially constructed.
A social construct is something that was made up by a society and would not exist otherwise. Examples are: currencies and economic markets, political nations and states, marriage, and religion. Gender is not one of these. Gender is not constructed by a society. There were no meetings held to determine what female and male were. There were no laws passed to create feminine or masculine. They are a product of biology and would exist if society collapsed.
Color isn't gender.
I think it would be beneficial to round these people up, we could then use them for experiments and figure out what is going wrong.
Maybe a gay/trans community could be built in the uninhabited arctic region, or possibly africa. There we could study their defects while keeping them safe. Like a homeland.
New rule: You use the bathroom based on your sex, not gender. Problem solved.
I'm not sure how it ever became "gender" in the first place.
Yes, I'm sure it's because they're unhappy after transitioning, and not because even then they have to deal with assholes like you and the parent who constantly question their very existence. The very fact that this conversation exists means society thinks they should have fewer rights than other people.
It can't possibly be as easy as "stop being a dick" to stop people killing themselves. If it was, how would people get to weigh in on other people's lives?
...and people have to spend the majority of their political efforts, on bullshit like this. Fucking hell.
There's a working narrative and template out there, for completely reforming left-leaning economics in a new progressive way, that will aim to provide permanent Full Employment (and which can be extended to successfully put the breaks on industry-led global warming) - and people are too fucking thick to pay any attention to it.
No wonder we're decimating the animal population and driving the planet towards climactic climatic catastrophe - people are too fucking busy trying to impress potential partners, and shoring up their social insecurity, with circlejerkery displays of social inclusiveness - which go far beyond the proportion of how important such issues actually are, in the grand scale of things.
Get some fucking perspective. Fix your fucking economies, and the hideously broken economic narrative that rules your politics (globally). Enough with the social justice bullshit - keep that stuff proportional, to how much it's actually going to affect all our lives.
One of my kids thought he was going to be a robot when he grew up. That didn't fucking make him one. Fortunately he grew up. Then again, I wasn't patting him on the head saying if you wish hard enough and have some surgery you can be anything you imagine.
But science says there are two genders. PERIOD. There is one other state, biological intersex, where the person has BOTH. But it's a mutation and rare to boot (maybe as high as 1.7%).
Insists that science says there are two genders. Immediately notes that science identifies more than two genders.
A birth defect/mutation is not a third gender. It's the same as being retarded.
"the one they were assigned at birth"
Wow I knew genetics was pretty advanced in some areas but I didn't realized it had advanced so far... assigning gender at birth is pretty cool huh?
Or perhaps this could be stated more correctly as "gender was recorded based on the physical attributes only as witnessed at birth" (or something along those lines).
Sex is your biological trait. Gender is your social trait. Flipping Psych 101 shit here.
being transgender often comes with a raft of health problems. Not the ones caused by trying to transition but just plain ones you're born with. Physically a lot of transgender people have huge hormonal imbalances. They're literally trapped in the body of the other sex, having very high/low levels of testosterone/estrogen (plus other sex hormones). This also leads to a variety of mental problems from coping with the mixed up hormones, to say nothing of the mental problems you get when you're an effeminate male or butch female.
Getting a diagnoses opens up all sorts of treatment options. Not just gender reassignment (lots of them don't want that). But if you don't recognize transgender as a thing then you're left fighting with your insurance company to get them to pay for anything.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Your second sentence directly contradicts your first. You admit that two categories are insufficient to cover all cases, so... who's the dumbass?
The scary thing is, what you wrote as sarcasm reads like a playbook for the current administration.
---
DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
I love how the LGBT lobby still claims to be a ragtag persecuted victim scrambling in fear
The gun lobby has a fucking constitutional fucking amendment protecting their fucking rights and they still won't shut the fuck up after 226 fucking years.
Some men like men, and some women like women. Worry about your own life.
---
DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
Simply because someone is born with the non-functional equipment of both doesn't mean they're a "third gender".
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Transgender is a lie.
Then don't date a trans person. I personally don't find transsexuals attractive. I'm also not keen on cigarette smoke, and I think squid is pretty damn disgusting.
But if some other human on this planet wants to smoke a cigarette while eating squid, and getting their fuck on with a transsexual - it doesn't affect me, so I don't have a problem with it.
---
DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
It's already happening. "Trans female" wrestlers are these big jacked up dudes who 'transition' and then go wrestle actual females and completely destroy them. Total sham.
If your favorite sports have suddenly ceased to provide entertainment, there's an amazing feature on your TV to solve this problem: The power button. Press it, and the un-entertaining program goes away, as if by magic.
It also works on NFL protests, fake news, and inane sitcom reboots. Try it sometime!
---
DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
While we're talking about sociology, is there any chance we can rename it to, say, questionnairology?
"gender" is used incertain languages, like German, where nouns have "gender". In English, words do not have genders.
"sex" is a physical characteristic of a living thing. It used to be the case that forms in the USA would have a box marked "sex" and the person filling it in would write "M" or "F", or there would be a checkbox for male and one for female. None of those forms used to ask about "gender" for a very simple reason: government forms that asked about a person's sex were generally tied to physical identity. Having a person's sex recorded made it easier to identify a person as a criminal suspect, or to identify a corpse, etc. There is no point in asking a person's "gender" on a form, both because it cannot be used as part of identifying a person's physical identity, and because applying the word "gender" to a human being is a very recent idea.
"sex" can be known at birth with a simple look at the newborn baby. It's either "mail", "female", or in extremely rare cases, uncertain due to a birth defect. For those children born with a sexual defect the status as male or female can be easily determined by DNA and then corrective surgeries selected, except for a very tiny minority of the already tiny number of people with such a defect.
"gender" cannot be known at birth. First, because gender has not traditionally been applied to human beings and second, because IF people have a "gender" then there's no physical way to identify it or confirm it without some mind reading capability. The introduction of the application of "gender" to living beings is misguided at best, but actually an intentionally destructive act on the part of some.
with significant portion of the cells of the body female, the rest male, raised as girl, biologically both male and female at the fundamental level, I find this dickussion uterusly amusing.
ambiguous genitalia is a birth defect. People with this birth defect should be treated with all the same sympathy and concern and medical intervention that victims of any other birth defect get. Just as a child is occasionally born with a cleft lip, or a missing arm or leg, or a heart outside the rib cage, or parts of a malformed twin attached is given a medical evaluation and experts make their best decisions abour surgical corrections, the same should be done for a child born intersexed. In very nearly all cases a simple DNA test will reveal XX or XY and then surgeons can figure out how best to make the person's personal plumbing align with their genetic code. The error that was made in this field in the past was when doctors decided to surgically alter such children to the physical form most easily surgically achieved with the bits of genitalia available rather than to match their DNA; this often ended up trying to make a genetic boy into a fake girl or a genetic girl into a fake boy and many of these cases lead to suicides later in life. These people were vicitms of a double tragedy.
We have cheap and easy DNA tests now.
Nobody is demanding that the plight of such victims be ignored. Society sadly failed these people far too foten in the past, but the answer is not to make up for those past failures by failing a whole new generation of victims by telling them a falsehood - that sex is a mental construct and anybody can change his or her sex at will by checking a box on a government form or by simply telling other people that one's sex has suddenly changed. Demanding that the entire society go mentally ill is absolutely not the solution to this fairly rare problem.
No, that's a concrete, undeniable example of how fashion changes. A boy is still a boy whether he is dressed in blue, pink, yellow, green or any other colour and the same is true for a girl. You cannot change your gender simply by changing your clothes any more than wearing a saddle would make you a horse.
If you truly care about another huma being, you speak truthfully to him or her. You do not encourage them to live in an illusion.
The truth is very often upsetting, but for anybody over the age of three, you should speak truthfully to a person even if it will upset them. Joining them in their delusion may seem kind or nice or gentle or tolerant since it seems to upset them less than the truth, but the truth will eventually catch up with them so it's best not to coddle them with a lie.
Nobody insists that we should all be less cruel and encourage anorexic teenage girls to starve themselves to death when they are convinced they are too fat. Not confronting them with their delusions may seem kind because it upsets them less when you play-along with them and say "oh my, you certainly are fat" as they take on a skeletal appearance. Nearly everybody would agree that such a person who encouraged an anorexic teen to starve would be a psychopath who is actively harming the girl. Same thing here.
Body dysmorphic disorder is a real psychological matter. It matters little if it's a waif-like girl who thinks she is a blimp, or a guy who's certain he is a girl, and it is fundamentally morally EVIL for any person to play along with it and encourage it.
There are only two you fucking retard. The fact that some freaks people are born with a super position of both doesnâ(TM)t change the crack there are only two sexes dumbass.
Holy shit dude (presumably).
I was kinda on the fence before, but these two sentences have crystallized that I need to support fervent push for LGBT rights.
From one random Internet user to another: you.. really should.. relax a little.
A government is a body of people notably ungoverned - AC
[a] To identify people - like drivers of vehicles, practitioners of important professions, persons with security clearances, criminal suspects, etc. Sexual characteristsics, like nair color, eye color, skin color, age, height, and weight are used in identifying a person when it's important.
[b] Medical and forensic purposes: identifying bodies after tragedies and crimes, providing and analyzing healthcare, medical donors, etc. No matter what a person identifies as, in the real world there are real effects of being one sex or the other and different requirements for medical care.
[c] Societal and legal matters: government is the entity that must sort-out various legal matters, like when a man marries a woman (a contract) with the intent of starting a family and then discovers that wis wife is actually a pretend woman - in such a case, the government needs to sort it out and that must be done base on truth, not lies anmd delusions. Governments also have historically been concerned with protecting the family structure which is the core building block of society -husbands, wives, and children. When you screw with these arrangements, families are less equipped to provide their own social services both to their young and to their old and thus government ends up stepping in at great cost and with great clumbsiness.
"private matters" are things which do not affect others or the society generally. Your personal preferences for music, pizza toppings, or books and movies are private matters. Being a man who walks around in his home in women's underwear is wierd, but it's a private matter. Being a man who demands to be called a woman and demands that all of society twist itself into a mental pretzel is far from a private matter.
It's obvious is it not.
Once you start to introduce combinations it really becomes confusing.
Maybe you should visit Thailand sometimes.
Generally speaking the term "sex" is indeed biological, while "gender" is social or personal. So, non-story.
I don't care if someone wants to mutilate their genitals.
Their obstetrician does that, in the olden days often without the permission of the parents. Usually nobody finds out about it. Religious mutilations ignored, of course.
The science here is quite clear, as this Nature piece explains. If you choose to ignore the science, then of course you're free to do so. But that doesn't make the science wrong and the conservatives right.
Development is programmable; Discovery is not programmable. (Fuller)
This is not my analogy but I like it: Have you ever taken out the hard disk from a computer and tried to get it to run in a different, seemingly identical computer? There's always something "off". That's how transgender folks feel, like they are one hard disk in another computer.
At this moment we don't have the technology to rewire the brain, which is why we rewire the body. This is also results in improved mental health with those who have undergone reassignment. So what's your issue?
Does this mean that a sex change who has gone the whole nine yards changing from mail to buxom female will no longer he expected and required to cover her mammary glands at the beach? And that is the tip of the iceberg here,
And one wonders, idly, what gender a hermaphrodite will be under this law. Will he-she be able to use both restrooms?
Off hand I do not think this has been thought through properly.
{^_-}
Everything you said is true, and none of it actually matters. The fact that people in a society associate certain colors, items, objects, or even words, with a certain sex does not mean that gender is socially constructed.
No, that's exactly what people are referring to when they talk about gender as a social construct. The association of certain colours, certain toys, certain jobs, certain behaviours with a particular gender.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Pretty much this. Sociology as a whole changes definitions as fits its whims and/or political agenda, and expects the rest of society to revere it for its word games.
I agree, opting out of transgender competitions is the best immediate option, whether it's athletes or viewers. But then what happens if those that opt out want to do their own thing and exclude transgenders? The authoritarian left will tell them they can't freely associate and outlaw their activities. And then you have the issues of sports in public schools.
Does me good to remember the name of the person I'm talking to right after they tell me. No fucking way am I going to remember or even care what "gender" someone is. If you require someone to address you differently, walk around with a sign or a tshirt with the rules as we will never remember. Or maybe a forehead tattoo where it's always visible.
So they're trying to reverse all advancements of the feminists by reinforcing gender stereotypes and telling women if they don't meet their gender stereotypes they are actually men?
Hmm, took longer than usual for the snowflakes to be trolled by reason today.
Slashdot has become really anti-science lately, mostly because of a small number of people with mod points.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Seems like you've been spending a LOT of time thinking about this, judging by your absolute confidence in your conclusion.
Incidentally, there's a big white supremecy rally tonight at the old abandoned chicken farm. I think you'd fit in perfectly there.
Fuck sociology - it is not a science.
Uh, no. That's not what social construct means. Social constructs aren't simply preferences. This is how they've confused the meaning of the words to forward their position.
Then first try to become a God.
Otherwise just shut up and live like you are born. Transgenderism is not natural and even induced by all the wacko's out there. Not to mention all the shit that gets put into peoples food. Yes , like hormones. I'm even convinced that crap is done on purpose for the sickminded elites out there. Sick people who want their human disgender toys.
It's not the preference, it's the association of the preference with sex. Girls are not innately drawn to pink things, that's the socially constructed part.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Insists that science says there are two genders. Immediately notes that science identifies more than two genders.
Err... no. How is this upvoted?
To simplify it for you, beeing able to have a 0 and a 1 at the same time doesnt mean there exists a third possible value. There are still only two possible values.
I got booted off a forum for making that same point. One of the mods was a trans-sympathizer.
I was asking a question about physiology with respect to the genders; to which some twat came on and said I should have to include him as a female to which I said go fuck yourself; the question is about biology.
kittens, are not humans.
if you don't understand that basic difference: stop clothing yourself in science.
and we're not discussing traits; we're discussing physiology. ovaries = bitch, testes=man. both = it.
....how the left tries to use science as its basis for many arguments....yet, ignores science when it comes down to biological gender.
Pretending a transgender person is not of the sex into which they were born is a courtesy, not a legal necessity. How they see themselves is irrelevant when it comes to what the word "sex" means. That facts undermine the self image a person may have constructed in their own imagination does not make them any less true.
And gender is not "assigned at birth", it is defined by sex at a time when they can be nothing but identical. Framing it as "assigned" implies that it has no more of an objective basis than someone's self-image. Even if gender is a social construct, it is based on biological fact. A self-image that contradicts biological fact is that person's own problem, and cannot outweigh that which is based on fact.
Sex means a person's status as male or female based on immutable biological traits identifiable by or before birth
Funny thing is that these traits are sometimes subjectively interpreted and then surgically magnified by the doctor at birth. So much for the immutability. It would be quite funny if such sex classification based on fertility should ever be made. Adolescents would get their gender (re)classification during their teenage medical checkups and then some of them would have to change their bathroom habits over night. :)
If we made only rules which benefited the 50%+1 person only, pretty much we would still be in the 19th century type of law - which is where your "why do we make laws for few people" slip to. Forget pollution stuff as it is local, shallow bury radionucleide and bad chemicals under a school ? No problem after all it will damage only very few people comapred to 300 million, far less than 0.01%. Forget Handycapped laws or access too.
The reason we have laws even for 0.01% of the population is to protect them from the tyranny of majority. You may like tyranny of majority though. If you are in the majority, it is pretty swell, especially if you have no empathy whatsoever.
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You're more than welcome to pretend you're a boy if you were born a girl, pretend you're a girl if you were Born a boy, put on a fuzzy costume and pretend you're a giant cat, pretend you're a firetruck or a zebra. the rest of society and I will tolerate your dress up-playtime as long as it doesn't interfere with my day to day life or your professional expectations and isn't truly offensive to those around you. BUT I AM IN NO WAY OBLIGATED TO PARTICIPATE IN YOUR LITTLE FANTASY. I am not going to address you as Mrs. if you have a penis nor am I going to address you as Mr Kittty Cat because you're wearing a giant fuzzy suit. I would neither obey or recognize any law that obligates me to do this. We live in the real world with REAL problems.. your sexual and gender confusion is NOT one of them.
His "other" is not a third gender. it is a medical condition making it you have both sex organ for example with various type of rare hermaphrodism. Even complete androgyn incensitivity makes you a woman. Sure with XY chromosome, but the embryonal development followed the X plan (incomplete since only one X - but your sexual organ are female and only ovaries are really not working. uterus is working and artificial implementation can lead to pregnancy). There is indeed only 2 "gender/sex" biologically : female and male. The rest is problem of the formation of either or both. But there is not such a thing as a "third" sex/gender thing in biology. It is quite binary. Just like somebody having a dis-formed leg is not called a second type of non-bipedial-human. He may get the qualifier of handicapped but it does not change its status. Just like losing your penis due to accident does not make you a female biologically, retracting it and putting it inside abdominal cavity does not make you a biological female. Now SOCIALLY is another kind of worm. the problem is that most of the population mix both indifferently, while some WANT to differentiate them. And I am not even touching the part where social and biological touch, like sex and dating, not even with a 100 foot pole.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
>>> which restroom you can enter
I think a lot of women would disagree that this is a matter of gender.
You're still not getting it. Just because companies have marketed pink things to girls doesn't mean gender is socially constructed. It just means that parents have a preference for buying pink things for girls, and companies found out that if they color their girls items pink they will get more sales and make more money.
For something to be a social construct effort had to be expended to perform the construction. There were no committees who convened and decided pink was for girls and blue was for boys. No laws passed. No proclamations from any leadership. Fashion and preferences are not social constructs.
Most social constructs are not created by committee, they just evolve naturally. Beauty is another good example - the ideal varies between cultures, but isn't regulated by law or proclamation.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Nah, just anti-pseudoscience.
nobody, and I mean nobody would claim to be transgendered to peep on girls in a bathroom. The shit you get from everybody for being trans is insane. At least some of your family will turn against you if not most of it. Everyone looks at you funny. And you worry when you're walking around at night that some drunk frat boy is gonna decide you made a pass at him and deck you. I know a gay guy beaten half to death for that. Spent a few years in a coma...
It would be like claiming to be a Nazi for the beer and schnitzel at the local KKK rally. It's just not something people do.
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Gender re-assignment is part of the treatment for the psychiatric problem though. Look at it this way, if you have schizophrenia they give you a drug that helps, they don't just tell you to talk to a counselor because that's not the only treatment option. If gender re-assignment helps to cure or minimize the psychiatric problem then isn't that a viable treatment option? What you're saying is that you're ok with forcing these patients to avoid a successful treatment option because you happen to find it a little personally "icky".
What if you needed an amputation and I told your doctor he can't do it because I find the idea "icky"? That's really what you're suggesting here.
Biological Sex is used to define male and female in a biological sense; these are terms used to explain and define reproductive strategies in some species. In nature, however, the this binary is not the standard, and definitely not the only reproductive strategy of species. For example: bacteria, viruses etc. Also, in some higher level organisms, we see lots of hermaphroditic species (species that have both or partial sexual organs). We also see species that can change from male to female, exhibit parthenogenesis, etc.
Sexual reproductive strategies vary in the animal kingdom. The binary male/female reproductive strategy works in some species but not all. In humans, the binary system seems to be what worked out from an evolutionary standpoint.
Now: Gender is a different issue all together, because gender is the state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones). Gender in many cultures is also not binary. We need to understand the difference.
SCIENCE EDUCATION and SCIENTIFICALLY BASED SEX ED is what we need. Not religious indoctrination of 6000 year old morals that also dictated that slavery was ok.
We need to move forward and address the FACTS, not trying to change them.
This is what you're not getting. Social constructs don't evolve naturally. You see the word "construct" in the term? A construct by definition isn't natural, it is deliberately created. That's like saying english is a constructed language because the words evolved over time. It's nonsense.
Beauty also is not a social construct. Preferences are not social constructs! There were no meetings held to decide what is and isn't beautiful.
This is what I meant when I said the "gender studies" professors in the 60s did a good job at duping everyone by trying to redefine words to suit their agenda.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
"Social constructionism is a theory of knowledge in sociology and communication theory that examines the development of jointly constructed understandings of the world that form the basis for shared assumptions about reality. The theory centers on the notion that meanings are developed in coordination with others rather than separately within each individual.
Another example of a social construction is the concept of self/ self-identity. Charles Cooley stated based on his Looking-Glass-Self theory: "I am not who you think I am; I am not who I think I am; I am who I think you think I am."[2] This demonstrates how people in society construct ideas or concepts that may not exist without the existence of people or language to validate those concepts."
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Transgender is denied as a mental illness and therefore already protected against discrimination against "disabilities", so exactly what Constitutional rights do they not enjoy that the rest of us do?