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But, ATI does provide a method for you to provide feedback. As everyone in OSS already knows, I'm sure, is that (good) bug reports are the very least you can contribute to improving a product :)

I'm even going to be so nice as to provide a link so you don't have to hunt it down (even though it's in the release notes): ATI.com Linux Driver Feedback

If they are to be believed, they read all feedback they get, even if they never respond to any of them. Also be aware that ATI's linux driver team isn't exactly massive, so these things take time.

You, sir, need to check your facts. ATI has graphic card drivers for Linux just like Nvidia does, binary and proprietary just like Nvidia. You can't compile them, but they work and word is they're quite good.

Anything from ATI's FireGL Z or X series will have dual DVI.

The next generation of video cards and game consoles will be fully capable of using HDRI in realtime

It's almost 2 years since the R300 release. One of the demos was Paul Debevec's Drawing with Natural light rendered(at 30 min/frame in '98) demo from just a few Sigraphs back was being rendered in realtime on a 9700 pro. Still waiting for the games (Fry cry being the only thing I can think of).

APserver
Winamp
Mirc
FlashFXP
Powertoys
DivX
Ethereal
Photoshop
Nero
ATI MMC

Peercy and Olano (Click on "PDF" in the upper right)

Presentation

ASHLI

GPGPU

More than Moore's Law

Moore's law : still for wimps

Using programmable graphics hardware (possibly through OpenGL) for final rendering is not that far off. (Definitely not in real-time, but as a more cost-effective way to do it, anyway.) Especially with the massive parallelism of rendering, and the fact that GPUs are far outpacing CPUs in terms of their speed and transistor counts.

OpenGL is much more similar to micropolygon rendering (REYES) than it is to raytracing in the first place. The shaders are where you spend all of your time, anyway.

Heck, do you think nVIDIA bought ExLuna (Larry Gritz, author of BMRT, and former Pixar employee) just for the fun of it?

Software for translating from RenderMan Shading Language to Cg?

And what about RenderMonkey supporting RenderMan?

Do you even remember PixelFlow from Pixar? Do you see the name Marc Olano on that paper? The same Marc Olano who talks about rendering on consumer-level graphics hardware? These things have far more in common than you seem to realize.

In a just a couple generations Pixar will use render farms of GPUs on the PCI Express bus and the CPU won't matter. In a couple years high end video games will look just as good to the eyes of many people as movies like Shrek.

2004 will see the first handheld devices using the same 3D technology that powered the Dreamcast gaming console.

Of course nVidia and ATI and others are also going to release 3d for mobile phones.

In the last video game generation people were shocked at the unbeliveable power the consoles had. The n64 featured an advanced 64bit 100MHz MIPS RS4?00 chip with SGI level 3d graphics designed by SGI for $200. Only a few years before that a slower 32bit 33Mhz MIPS 3000 chip with worse graphics would've cost many thousands of dollars. Just wait a couple years and we'll have $20 watches with gigs of memory to replace our iPods and more power than the xbox ;)

You can essentially do the same thing with certain ATI All-in-Wonder cards. Some of these cards include an FM tuner. It's gonna cost you a few hundred bucks, but you can change the channel and get other features too (DVR, etc.)

The scheduling software is not the greatest. It lacks the elegance of the shell script config file in the parent post. But, it'll record to MP3, so you can use lots of programs to play it back.

I don't know about Mac/Linux support for the card.

I have heard, that ATI somehow "supports" opensource communities - or at least gives them more information, than NVidia team.

Used to support the open source communities would be more like it. I've been using ATI cards for as long as I can remember.

There was a time when ATI did things for us like funding Precision Insight to develop the open source Radeon driver in the first place. They used to be very good about providing specifications, although under an NDA which for some bizarre reason they require developers to sign, but allow them to publish drivers based on their contents. At the time they were the underdog in the 3D graphics market though.

Now a days though, they don't fund any OSS development, and provide a binary driver instead. They will not give you specifications for any cards until they are close to their end-of-life. DRI and Gatos have done great work despite this, but ATI shouldn't be congratulated on today's treatment of the open source community.

They still do have specs available from the developer relations page under NDA. But I doubt you'll get anything from them that would be considered current hardware.

You know, silly stuff like reliable, robust video and sound drivers.

It's funny, but Linux is in much better shape for video drivers than audio ones. Since the game-capable graphics market only includes two companies, Linux is already adequately usable.

But since soundcards are technically easier to make, there's many more brands still in active use. Many gamers who buy the latest NVidias to squeeze a few more FPS or pixels might still be satisfied using motherboard audio output, or a $2.50 PCI soundcard.

Linux audio support is close to adequate... but unfortunately, the Alsa Project's longstanding philosophical refusal to move software mixing into the central driver means you still can't expect Linux to run games on any random piece of desktop PC hardware.

the copy of Mandrake I tried a few months ago didn't work with my Radeon 9000 card

Blame ATI for not giving OSS developers enough information to write proper drivers for the video card. If you had any radeon before the 9500, you'd have great support from the Free drivers (which is more than can be said about nVidia; you're not going to see any support through Free drivers).

Go to here to pick up the (binary-only) drivers for your Radeon.

"As computer hardware continues to accelerate at this pace, the divide between computing power with hardcore gamers and non-hardcore gamers increase, it will be harder and harder to make PC games."

This is not "new" news as 3.7.0 has been out for quite some time. You won't get that impression from ATI's website however because they just tried releasing 3.7.1 but screwed up the compiler flags to require an SSE2 CPU and then pulled the release but never changed the "date posted" back to when 3.7.0 was released.

What is interesting however is that the 3.2.8 drivers give significantly better performance almost reaching that of the windows drivers (about 10% off) while the 3.7.0 drivers are quite terrible performance wise. Hopefully ATI fixes this in the next version of the driver.

That was fixed in a recent driver update. Go grab the latest Catalyst.

Oh, and it's already available.

I watch a lot of tv and the best way I can think of is by downloading two programs one for backing up the disc to your computer DVD Decryptor then shrinking the dvd with DVD shrink then using some sort of card to get sound and video to your tv then ATI's Remote Wonderto control the the computer stream. Then that should work reasonbly well for what you want to do.

But they are..

Check it out: ATI Overdrive

Really?

I've been with my geek for 4 years. Even though I'm pretty well qualified for that title myself, I ususally never buy him hardware or geeky toys unless he tells me that's what he wants (and yes, it is all right to ask HIM if you are stuck). The reason? If he doesn't already have it, he probably doesn't want or need it.
The most successful gifts I've given are useful, often more stylish versions of things he's had for years and never upgraded. For instance, his bulky old digi watch didn't work for dressing up, so I got him an ultra-thin metal Swatch skin: Swatch Skin. Now he doesn't even wear his old watch at all.
If he's a gamer, try an Nvidia or ATI hoodie- warm and comfortable but not just a boring clothing gift (just make sure you know which card he prefers first).
We had lost our lotr books in one move or the other, and since he wanted to re-read it I got him the leather bound compilation with the pull out maps for about 85$.
I've also done things like refoaming his old stage speakers. About 80$ and it made quake much more enjoyable for him. I also have bought an inexpensive entertainment center (our tv was on the floor) and an external switchbox that took s-video. I set it up at work and it was a nice surprise; now he can play one of his consoles or watch a dvd without unplugging anything (word of advice: don't try lifting a 36" tv by yourself).
If there's anything that he's been saying he means to do but hasn't got around to use that as a guide. And if you can't think of anything to buy, go somewhere cool, like a picnic on an island or at a park, or plan a weekend trip that involves his interests (i.e. we live in Florida, so I took him to see a shuttle launch at Kennedy Space center a few years ago. Got rained out, but he'd never seen the museums before and we got to see the ISS before it was launched).

The thing I find interesting about this debate is the fact that the game wasn't really known about until the E3 demo, no hype until then, then all of a sudden, this game is being released at the end of September.

Now when you consider the gameplay of the source and its apparent unfinished nature, there are only really two conclusions you can make:-

1. The source was 'released' to hype the game yet more

2. We believe the Valve press release, with which we can only hope gives Valve more time to improve the game yet further.

I can't quite believe reason number 1 given that HL was such a huge success, sales of the 2nd edition are almost guarenteed(unless it was a weird form of a beta test release).

Which leaves the 2nd option. This option is probably pretty likely when you consider the deal they did with ATI and the fact the source released was not complete and lacking in several areas.

And to be honest, the time delay is OK by me as long as the revision of the code is purely beneficial to the final game.

Because we all know that running a binary driver under Windows is less of a sin in the OSS Nazi church than running a binary driver under Linux.

BTW--Go here if you want performance under Linux.

"ATi" is incorrect (PDF - Page 2, near the bottom: "WRITING ATI: At all times ATI should only be written in UPPERCASE letters.") I think I saw a press release from NVIDIA that said NVIDIA was supposed to be in all caps, too. Whatever...

I'd have suggested mounting the Remote Wonder instead of those other buttons. It's RF based with amazing range and the Mac Software is excellent and customizable down to the app. Plus, if he had made a small mount for it on the dashboard, it could be passed around to the people in the backseats to control the audio as well.

Actually, take a look over at ATI's drivers' page

They're for the entire Radeon line from everything from the 8500-9800

But like you said, no 64bit drivers - I wonder if ATI and Emachines have soemthing worked out for this?

Yes sir.

Yes sir.

First, Centrino is a CPU, not a graphics card or GPU. Second, HP can invent new definitions of "MOBILITY RADEON 9200 brand" all it wants, but it's still false advertising in context of this, at least until ATI changes thier pages that clearly distinguish "MOBILITY 9000" from "MOBILITY RADEON 9200".

Have you ever seen a Mobile Radeon 9200 that has AGP8x?

Yes.

Wrong AC. There are other differences between an ATI Mobility Radeon 9000 and an ATI Mobility Radeon 9200. ATI refers to these parts as different, so why shouldn't laptop manufacturers?

Wrong AC. There are other differences between an ATI Mobility Radeon 9000 and an ATI Mobility Radeon 9200. ATI refers to these parts as different, so why shouldn't laptop manufacturers?

Wrong AC. There are other differences between an ATI Mobility Radeon 9000 and an ATI Mobility Radeon 9200. ATI refers to these parts as different, so why shouldn't laptop manufacturers?

There is a difference between an ATI Mobility Radeon 9000 and an ATI Mobility Radeon 9200. ATI refers to them distinctly, as should laptop manufacturers using one or the other.

There is a difference between an ATI Mobility Radeon 9000 and an ATI Mobility Radeon 9200. ATI refers to them distinctly, as should laptop manufacturers using one or the other.

There is a difference between an ATI Mobility Radeon 9000 and an ATI Mobility Radeon 9200. ATI refers to them distinctly, as should laptop manufacturers using one or the other.

Unless ATI specifically has a product called the "Mobile Radeon 9200"

They certainly do.

So, someone has engaged in false advertising. Now will you stop the nonsense you've been spewing in this thread?

Yeah, for companies who will pay 10x the price for a guarantee (rather than deal with the 1% fallout of the unguaranteed version), a difference exists, but only on paper. For the rest of us, the two refer to the same product, with one deliberately (and reverseably) crippled.

You have no idea what the MP failure rate for XP parts are, so why do you try to put a precise number on it? The difference exist in testing and warranty, something that costs real money. Not just "paper".

More interestingly, you appear to defeat your own point here - A paper-only difference between the XP and MP line of Athlons counts as valid in your opinion, yet the paper-only name of an ATI product makes your fur bristle?

You are thoroughly confused. It's not "paper-only". One is sure to work in MP, one is not. One is tested to work in MP, one has not been. Tester time costs money. Test harnesses for MP cost more than those for XP. Clearly you have no clue about semiconductor manufacturing or the business models involved. Why you feel the need to try to justify false advertising is beyond me.

IBM XT didn't have an "Intel XT" chip in it, it had an 8088.

Er, you do know that there's no such thing as an "Intel XT" chip right? Oh wait, had you, you wouldn't have said anything so stupid. If they had put "ATI monkeychip 9999" on the laptop, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Now I wish they had done that . . .

Not one game? Please.

I have an original ATI 9700 (128 MB, never overclocked it) and I can certainly tell you that it can do a hell of a lot more amazing things then some of the lower models (9500 and lower) in almost all 3D games based on my experience with other ATI cards.

Have you ever played GTA: Vice City at 1280 x 1024 x 32 bpp with 16X antialiasing, with fluid frame rates (fluid most of the time, except for some scenes like helicopters exploding next to you)?

Play the rifle range training level of America's Army with no antialiasing, and then with 16X AA. Look at the wires above, or at the chain link fences. Features like high-resolution AA which are only available in higher end models make an amazing difference between jagged geometric polygon edges and near-realistic, organic polygon edges.

Have you ever seen the ATI graphics demos, like the beautiful Paul Debevec's Rendering with Natural Light? Or any of the neat third-party demos, like Tomohide Kano's Dynamic Fur demo, that show specifically what the Radeon 9700/9800 chipset with Direct X 9 technology can do? Or watched even any detailed, taxing graphic demo at the highest resolution and quality settings?

If you've never experienced what the newer cards can do, then you are just ignorant, so don't make claims with no experience or evidence. There are very signifigant differences between the capabilities and performance of a Radeon 9000 (or even a 9500M), and a 9700. If you haven't seen the 9700 (or 9800) for yourself, you should see what it does and can do before saying absolutely no games benefit from newer models of cards. Because I can certainly tell you that you are wrong because I have seen otherwise.

Now, in games like Starcraft, of course you won't notice any performance gain. But it's not 3D in the first place. And, I will note that I do have an Athlon XP 3000 Barton over clocked to 2.41 GHz, and I crank up my ATI Radeon control panel settings to the highest quality settings.

I feel I must defend my $350 (when bought in October 2002) video card.

-- paper

I've got the AIW 9600 Pro. Works great. No propblems. Great for games too. I'm not a big gamer, but I really like Call of Duty, which is pretty demanding graphically. Runs great on the 9600.

The only caveat is that ATI's software, while it is improving, isn't that great. Most significantly their on-screen guide software (GuidePlus) sucks. Thank goodness for myHTPC. Works great. Cool-ass guide UI. And it transparently integrates with ATI's new EasyLook TV UI.

The AIW 9700 Pro card should be significantly cheaper than the 9800 Pro since it's about 1.5 generations behind ATI's current product set. Last I remember, ATI was providing Linux binary-only divers for the 9700 Pro which enabled accelerated video. The Gatos project enables the TV tuner on these ATI cards.

I'm currently on my third AIW card, the AIW 9800 Pro, and I'm not sure I'd want to use anything else.

BTW, you don't need a TV tuner card to use your PS2 with your computer monitor. You can get a PS2 to VGA cable and plug it directly into your monitor.

>>For example, what is the Linux driver situation with latest ATI cards?

I haven't tried the X driver in a long time, so I won't comment on that. However, ATi has released their own proprietary driver which I've heard many good things about.

ATI link is broken. Why the hell is slashcode inserting those spaces into long strings?

http://www.ati.com/support/drivers/linux/radeon-li nux.html

Oh, here we go...

Q6: What modes does the HDTV Component Video Adapter support?
A6: ATI's HDTV Component Video Adapter supports the standard analog component modes of 480i (interlaced), 480p (progressive), 720p and 1080i.
Q7: What modes can I watch DVDs in?
A7: DVD playback is supported in 480i and 480p modes due to Macrovision restrictions.

Try ATI's FireGL line.

They're expensive, offer dual DVI and are based on the 9700 and 9800 (top of the line 3d performance).

http://www.ati.com/support/driver.html

ATI generally releases an new WHQL Windows driver about once a month and a new Linux driver about every 6 weeks. I've had no problems with their XFree86 4.3 driver. They don't have a FreeBSD driver, though, but I guess a PowerBook would give somewhat of the same experience (BSD-based OS, XFree86-based X envrionment, Radeon 9600, plus Quartz/DisplayPDF and access to Mac apps). Mac OS X also has the ATI (and nVIDIA) drivers built-in and are updated with the software update utility.

ATI's Windows drivers are offically updated once in awhile, and are generally rock solid, but there are occasionally problems that aren't resolved for months at a time.

(I think ATI's RenderMonkey is vapourwear)

Actually I don't know where you get your info, but,
right from ATI

Also bestbuy has the coupon for HL2 on ALL ATI cards now check here for a good deal

I don't know what benchmarks you refer to but please check out the hardocp review. They actually give you graphs of in game performance rather than crap like 3dMark2003. Last I checked I didn't play benchmarks.

Please show me these benchmarks where the 5700 "utterly destroys the 9600XT" I really don't care one way or the other as long as I get the best deal.

I'm just filling everyone who doesn't keep up with hardware in here.

The 5700 and the 9600XT perform very closely. The 9600XT gets you HL2 and until it is released ATI has worked a deal with valve to give you all previrous Valve products through Steam. Now I've seen people bitch "who cares it's all old games" You know they could've just said "tough shit blame the hacker" Either way you get the $50 HL2 game when it comes out, so factor that into the $200 price.

Neither is a bad buy for $200 but in my mind the 9600XT is the clear winner.

You do NOT get HL2 with the 200 dollar 9600XT.

Really?
When you buy the new RADEON(TM) 9800 XT or RADEON(TM) 9600 XT you will get a FREE copy of Half-Life(R) 2!