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Only Xbox Port of Doom 3 Will Have Co-operative Play
Ant writes "According to this interview with the Xbox developers Vicarious Visions over at GamePro, only the Xbox port of id's Doom 3 will have co-operative play, and the PC version will not have co-op, unlike the original Doom games. There are also two recent interviews with id themselves on the GamePro site." Co-op was one of the parts of Doom (and Quake) that really got me into the genre, but after I got good enough fighting alongside my friends, I found it was more fun to fight against them, since they were more challenging than anything the computer could come up with then.
Why they didn't bring the co-op portion of the Xbox code to the PC version I have no idea. Personally, after Quake III I gave up hope on id ever producing something good ever again. Quake IV is hopefully in good hands at Raven, but I heard that many left that company that were responsible for their earlier great games.
Would you really want Co-Op in an atmosphere based game?
It's not going to be as frentic with very few enemies on screen at one time so there really isn't any call for it.
It does seem kind of a shame though, co-op gives you somehting to do to teach people the game.
Yes, playing against people of equal skill levels is more fun. But co-op is great for allowing less experienced people a chance to learn the game. About the 10th time in a row I frag my wife, its stops being fun... especially when she starts threatening a divorce...
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
Technically, the co-op that will be in Xbox will not be the same as you'd want in PC - it will be Split Screen. It's not as though the Devs can as easily take this split screen co-op and turn it into single screen, multiple location co-op.
While co-op is important to consoles, it's not such a big deal for PC games. How do I know? I recall Serious Sam having co-op and nearly all the games on the servers were for pvp, not co-op.
Quake? Doom? Weren't those ancient games people played before Unreal Tournament came out?
Coop play is always fun. It's great to run around with someone else blasting away baddies. Or you can use your teammates as bait :P. There's a great coop mod for half-life called sven and theres a pretty big community for that so I would assume theres a market for coop doom. They could add in team specific puzzles, secrets, or battles that require teamplay just to spice things up.
It's too bad Doom 3 won't have cooperative play when it ships. I had a very good time running around Doom's levels with friends, and I'd like to be able to do it again with the new game. The good thing is, id can always put co-op play in in a patch. They add features a lot with their patches, hopefully they'll add this once they get a little less busy getting the game shipped. I bet they just wanted to focus on the single-player game first.
From the post some people might imply that the co-op mode was given only to the x-box as some kind of incentive to play that particular version. However, it was not created by Id, but VV, the company in charge of porting D3 to the xbox.
Id didn't want a co-op mode, and these guys did. That makes me feel much better than if it had been a decision by Id itself in some kind of an attempt to make people buy both versions.
But there is another kind of evil that we must fear most... and that is the indifference of good men.
They didn't really make it clear if the it is split screen co-op or over xbox live...
Well that's a shame. Last game/FPS that I played co-op was Serious Sam.
:-(
Quite a bit of fun for co-op play.
Co-op play should almost be required in action games. Even ones as heavily scripted and story-based as Doom 3.
..And please don't give us the "it's not implemented in the code" speech - if it's implemented for the XBox, then it's not hard to implement on the PC as well. Puhleez!
Neverwinter Nights and its expansions are very good examples. Granted, NwN is an RPG, not an FPS, but it is still has a very heavily scripted story-line. The single-player campaign is made to be played uhm - single player, but it is still _possible_ to play it in coop mode with your friends on a LAN or on the internet. This is a _very good thing_(tm).
HALO and a lot of other games have also implemented co-op modes. It's often MUCH more fun to play with your friends than playing alone.
Cheers!
File not found. Fake it(Y/N)? _
Couldn't all gametypes be structured as multiplayer? I mean so far as single playing being two teams, the player (a one man team) versus the enemies.
And using this, wouldn't it be much simpler to implement coop play and versus play into games?
The most obvious reason I can think of for this not to work is the size of current game levels. Is this the problem? Note the load times between two sections of Halo, and how a lagging player is teleported to activated checkpoint.
Anyone know why me aformentioned approach wouldn't work on PC games, as PCs usually have tons more memory? Or is it just that most PC players don't care about CoOp?
Try Ghost Recon or Rainbow Six ... co-op is most certainly *not* dead in military sims.
Doom, Quake, Duke Nukem 3D: they all had co-op out of the box. And that was in the days of modems and kermit for [omnipotent diety here]'s sakes!
If they can't take the time to include co-op, then I'm not going to waste my time and money to buy the frickin game.
Serious sam is a game that if not for the co-op aspect, I would have played for 15 minutes before junking it. Thankfully for the co-op and the magic of lan, I was able to play it co-op on ultra hard with 2 other people for a few hours before junking it.
Well.. the co-op for xbox is ok, but basically is the best news Ive heard on the port, theres a lot of talk about the game being released at the same time than pc's but theres no store preordering, is not even listed yet. Considering Doom3 for pc is coming out in june thats not a good sign. And probably means the game will be delayed until halloween or xmas, months after "the release hype" reaches its critical point, chances are you will already played and maybe even finished doom by the time it hits the xbox (considering it can run in a geforce mx card which is pretty common these days)
Aditionally one of the greatest strengths in doom 3 will be the extremely easy to modify engine, doom 3 wont use bsps and just like in tribes it will feature an in game IDE script "compiler" so you will be able to create levels on the fly literally, not to mention there already tools out there to create models for it. Expect the first mods to hit almost as soon as the game is out. None of these features have been discussed for the xbox port, they havent even mentioned downloadable levels, much less mods. Think "half life" without any mods.
I expect a cool but not very replayable game not even in multiplayer mode (which is doom's weakest points) considering that, the xbox co-op addition is a must.
Go ahead MOD my day!
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We're the consumers. NEVER FORGET, that WE dictate what platforms will offer what functionality - not vice-versa.
Never underestimate the power of the dollars in your wallet. Contact the vendor and tell them what games you've bought in the past, and how if they don't offer the functionality you want you won't buy any future games; and furthermore, you'll tell all of your friends (and blog-mates, and website visitors, etc) NOT to purchase the game.
They're going to "try" to limit the functionality, but I'm sure that if enough people bitch they'll see the err of their ways.
Don't think that a small group of dedicated individuals can't change the world. It's the only thing that ever has.
The PC version wasn't intended to have any multiplayer at all... If I'm not mistaken, ID hired an outside company to create multiplayer for the game after it had already been in development for several years. If Vicarious Vision decided to add co-op multiplayer to the XBox, it is probably because they realized that they were cutting enough that the two games wouldn't be compatible with eachother... I'd be surprised if the XBox kept the per-polygon collision detection... So why not throw in a new multiplayer mode?
Personally I don't see how the loneliness, desolation, and terror of being lost alone on a hell planet will translate with a second person running around with you, but personally I want that option. There are too few games where you can cooperate with your friends... Pitting 2 people head-to-head is always easier than creating a game around 2 people cooperating.
The ______ Agenda
what's the point of buying it if 1/2 of the game is missing? fuck id. i thought it was great that they were bringing their games to linux, but they're just screwing us.
maybe i'll burn my registered copy of wolfenstein 3d along with my other id games and never buy anything by them again.
I remember the days I played addons and mods with my buddies in DOOM 1 and 2 over dial-up modems and SirDOOM (lets you do 4 players on BBS' with dialup modems). It was much more fun when playing maps that we haven't played before.
I was hoping DOOM 3 (PC port) would have co-operative play like System Shock 2. I guess not. Maybe someone can hack DOOM 3 to have co-op like Sven Co-op.
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
but there apears to be no reason for not having co-op on pc as well. Why?
I quote "We're even including new features like co-op play, which require a tremendous amount of creativity and planning from everyone at VV and id."
If this is the case, and id are working on it as well, then I expect it to be in the PC release as well. If it doesn't come out at release on PC, or if there isn't a promise of co-op in a patch, then id had better prepare to be viewed as sell-outs to M$ and the console world, since that is how I view it, and I know I'm not alone. I do not support companies that reduce content on one platform in an effort to sell copies on another.
If console and PC doom players share the same server, the PC players with mouse will just be absolutely SUPERIOR.
- There is no way in hell every xbox owner will buy a mouse for one game.
- There is no way in hell a console controller will give you better aim than a mouse. Especially not that made-for-giant xbox controller.
I was planning on buying a new beefed up game station when D3 comes out. But if there isn't going to be any COOP mode on the PC, I think I might just stick with my xbox instead. :)
Don't you think ID might release a COOP patch later for the PC version though? I really wan't a good excuse for burning a couple of k:s on that new machine
I wonder what makes it so hard to make co-op for the PC version too then? I'd imagine that co-op makes the leveldesign part a bit more challenging, as you need to take in consideration that the players could be in very different places in the map so you'd need to be careful about locking doors behind the player for example. But as the levels are the same in xbox and PC versions (I assume) then what could be the reason for this? If the company doing the xbox port has time to do this, then why not ID? Isn't it the ID guys saying that the game will be released "when its done", so lack of time is not a very good excuse. Its a shame that developers seem to keep co-op play in such low regard today. For me personally co-op has given the most memorable gaming moments ever, and lots of people seem to share my thoughs about it (For example in the Stalker forums theres a huge thread where people cry for co-op support, after the developer announced that it might not make it to the final game).
Whats the point in sweating over this? doom for pc will be modable, if co-op is seen as something cool someone any team can mod it in. Seems like a good project by the way.
Anyway, co-op in PC is not that good unless you are playing in a lan. or the games allows a lot of players at the same time.
Go ahead MOD my day!
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I like UT better, as I found Q3 played too "smooth" like I was floating instead of running. UT just felt more "earthy" and organic.
That is of course the original UT vs. Q3. UT2003 felt more like Q3 and the unreal fans hated it for that reason. I still liked it. UT2004 is about 5 years better than Q3, so it becomes unfair to compare.
But then again, I might just not be playing at your high level. (j/k)
For years and years John Carmack has resisted industry pressures and has always marched to the beat of his own drummer. While almost all popular PC games use Direct3D, he stuck with OpenGL because he felt it allowed him to do better.
Now, his latest creation will be crippled on the PC. Call me a cynic, but I'm willing to bet that Bill Gates gave him a hat made out of money, Bungie style.
Up next: Doom 3 for Mac will not allow the use of a backwards-step key.
Total PR bullshit. FFS ask the questions we want to know like is the PC version being dumbed down to the XBOX level ala Deus Ex 2. Or seeing how FPS are shite on consoles do they think D3 will tank bad or really bad?
Why are so many people mystified as to the reasoning behind this decision. People arguing that there is no technical reason why you can't have co-op on the PC are missing the point.
I'm almost positive that this has *nothing* to do with technical/time constraints and almost everything to do with a big fat check from Microsoft. In Id's Wired interview, they claimed that they were getting a lot of pressure to do an XBox exclusivity deal a la Halo or possibly a 6 month delay. I'm sure that this is a compromise.
I don't know about you but the idea of installing more files onto your comptuer so you can play with other people seems assinine. I can understand why the XBOX version of Doom 3 would have COOP. (Conrolers were never ment for FPS anyhow) Yet, id wont have the feature when it's out for PC seems like a mistake to me. I think the days of one hero agianst an infinite ammount of bad guys are gone. Besides I've spent my own money and I want to kill demons with my firends.......but if a mod does come out I'll downlaod it anyhow.
let's not flame but instead celebrate our love of technology
Bend over for Microsoft? This is pretty much plain crap, no way around it.
They won't. Xbox Live is a seperate network that doesn't even touch the 'net.
Cheating is also an issue, too. I've been playing Need for Speed Undeground on the net for a while on PS2 (which is using the same server as PC players), and it's pretty easy to pick out the PC players, because most of them have hacked games.
People are extremely naive to think coop was exclusive to xbox. It's just another attempt to convince M$ fanboys to buy an Xbox.
Can someone say "Marketing". Unless I had 20 different websites saying the same thing a month before release, it's complete BS.
Mod me down, you know I am right.
I had a dream about Doom 3 last night. It was the scariest dream I have ever had.
Much like Halo, I'm sure the presenence of co-op on the X-Box but not on the PC is because with the X-Box it will be split screen multiplayer not network co-op play in any form. Obviously PC's arnt well suited to split screen co-op and this feature doesn't really have a place on the PC (and it's more than a 'bit' cramped on TV screen in any case), so it's been omitted from the PC port.
Network co-op play (on PC or console), which is a far more enjoyable and practical from a gameplay point of view, just hasn't been implimented. I'm disappointed that network co-op wasn't in the PC version of Halo (on the maximum difficulty level that could really have been a lot of fun).
(That's just to clear up people asking why it's on the X-Box but not the PC, and because it's relevent to comments below...).
I would cite an outstanding example of a multiplayer co-operative game as proof that it can be fun when in done well: Aliens Total Conversion (for the Doom engine). It was a superb co-operative multiplayer game IMO (better than the origional Doom for co-op play IMO), very atmospheric and much more fun to play in a team that just solo (especially on the Nightmare level).
I too am surprised that split-screen co-op is even being considered for the console though. Nothing I've seen of Doom 3 makes me thing it would be suited to it (both Aliens TC and the origional Doom, on the other hand, had large open areas, and/or areas where you could be in more than once place at once and still be progressing through the level, so you wern't triping over each other all the time).
Dooms 3's apparent tight maps consisting of many cramped spaces, with sparely and strategically populated levels (which I am expecting to be pretty linear in layout) strike me as being particularly ill suited to co-op. I'd have thought that if you had more than one player in the map they'd be just catching each other with friendly fire and getting in each others way (and I think that would be all the more likely if you have to play split screen on the same TV, on a low resolution display, in dark/dimily lit levels).
If you read this and have thought "doh, then just port the code from XBox to PC", then think about this: Splitscreen co-op is something totally different from internet/LAN co-op. In splitscreen you'll basicly have to make the CPU and GPU work as a double input/output system, for the player sides, while everything else was still running once. On internet/LAN, however you have single computers sending packets to each other. Now there's no need to manage two players (which in itself isn't very hard, especially when the screen ain't splitted), but, you'll have to manage a internet protocol system, which is a *totally* different thing to code.
Carmack's no saint. I'm sure with the amount of money Gates threw at him he agreed quickly enough.
I mean really. For Christ's sake.
Sellout anyone?
Go ahead & mod me flamebait, I'm in a FOUL fucking mood today, and this just pushed me over the edge.
Conspiracy theorist? Look at the track record.
Each and every godamned Id release has also had a Mac version with FULL godamned functionality.
They've even released Mac demos!
Now, once the mighty X-Box enters the fray, suddenly only 'It' (I'm using the Stephen Kingative version of 'It' here) will have co-op?
Wonder what fucktard thought THAT would go over well.
I'm NOT buying an X-Box, and I'm NOT buying Doom3 it seems. Co-op was one of the things I was REALLY looking forward to.
Fuck this Virginia. Santa Claus isn't only dead, his body's been donated to science.
Don't park drunk, accidents cause people.
I won't buy it.
I have every box from every id-released game on my shelf, except Quake 3 which I didn't like. I still have the original floppy disk install from DOOM because I can't bring myself to throw them out. I was planning on buying Doom3.
I won't now. Way to go Carmack - sell the shop to Gates and punish your loyal PC fans for not buying an XBOX. You *could* do it.
Former id-fan.....
This sig contains a manual self-destruct. Kindly please put your foot through your monitor in 8 seconds.
It will probably be extremely simple to make a coop mod, so quit your crying and just wait the 2 weeks until after release before someone makes it, or make it yourselves.
Seriously, any game that people want co-op for, they'll do it themselves. Id is usually very good about releasing game sourcecode (not engine, game). I'm sure we'll see a mod that adds co-op mere weeks (or days) after DooM 3's release. Heck, people have even done it for games like Half-Life and Deus-Ex, where the games didn't lend themselves well to co-op.
I have to say that my love for videogames was spawned by a PC. I had NES and SNES back when they were initially released, but when I saw Wing Commander 2 on a 486 with all that speech (hehehe) back in '92, I was hooked. Since then, a PC has been my primary source of video game entertainment. Until recently, though, I've found myself to be a bit more satisfied with a console experience. Maybe it's because I got an HDTV for XMAS and I'm just still stuck on the novelty of high resolution console gaming, but for the most part I'm finding the console experience more "solid". There seems to be too much politics in modern game development, and it seems to be having the worst effects on PC game developers; Deus Ex 2, anyone? I played that demo for an all of 5 minutes before un-installing that nonsense, and the "dumbing" down of cross-port video games couldn't be more obvious. But then, on the flip side, look at what effect it seems to be having on rather PC-loyal companies like id... Granted, I understand that as far as development goes it could make sense to only support cooperative on a console and leave it up to loyal fans to devise a system for PC, but I've always trusted companies like id to release things how THEY want, and then watch the magic of mods and what not take over after the games release. A move like this shows how much of an influence the video game market as a whole has become...
...which leads me to the point of this rant. With consoles seeming to blend so much closer to PCs as far as multiplayer and even hardware architecture, it seems like it is only going to get worse. So, my concern is this: why bother spending so much money on computer hardware ($400 for a video card? Give me a break...) when you can just wait for QUALITY games to be released for your respective console? Granted, many of the cross-port games are just terrible and not worth the media they are pressed on, but it seems that the general consensus is that you'll be able to get all the "better" games released on your console. Especially if you own all three, like me. I mean, spending around $600 to get all three systems is probably what it could cost me right now to upgrade my machine to something that could play DOOM 3 at a framerate comparable to how smoothly it may run on my XBOX...
Please don't get me wrong; I do think the PC is a much better format for gaming. If you want to talk graphics, they are completely unmatched to anything on a PC, and PCs have the ability to configure game interfaces so that ANYONE can get a comfortable system set up (not to mention that the control schemes in FPS on a PC is the most precise setup you can get anywhere). It's just that as far as money and affordability goes, it seems like the best bet for gamers is to just invest in whatever consoles are dominating the market. Now, if you have the cash flow to AFFORD a new machine every six months, that is an entirely different story...
Just my 2 cents... I'm interested to hear anyone else's feelings on this matter.
--
Is it me, or did it just get fatter in here?
Id Software have always said there'd be no coop, and very limited multiplayer. VV need to do something to make people want to buy a dumbed-down ugly version of Doom 3.
Or am I being too much of a Carmack groupy?
This has been the way of publishers for the last 5 years or so. Publishers only want the first 90 days of 100,000 copies of x to turn the quick profit. They only care about money and couldn't give a squat about how PC games used to be. Now it seems that PC games are pitiful ports from consoles. At one point I used to buy 2-3 new games a month. Now I am lucky if I buy 3 games a year and I am begining to think that is too many. Things like good gameplay and depth have been traded for flash and fluff. So much for quality content. So it doesn't really surprize me that id is going the same route as M$, UBI, EA, Sierra... Some day they will see the error of their ways when dwindling revenues catch up with them.
i say as much in my (slightly incoherent) review of deus ex2.
http://videogames.co.nz/showreview.php?id=301
I have both games. I replayed DE right before xmas as I knew the wife had bought DE2 for me. I wanted to be in the right frame of mind for DE2.
I have played DE2 twice. Once pure stealth and once killing everything in my path. Either way of playing made no discernable difference on the game. To me it was a hasty port from XBox to PC. Very poorly done.Note to game publishers! IF I WANT a console game I WILL buy a CONSOLE game! I am an old PC gamer and will die a PC gamer. Consoles IMHO are for kids.
Thanks. :)
I'd make a different note to game publishers:
PC users by and large aren't incredibly stupid, and we know how to use the internet to a large degree. Enough to warn other people of games which don't meet minimum expectation standards. Don't test us.
Not that I'm saying DE2 isn't a good game on PC, it just isn't nearly as good as it would have been if it had developed for PC primarily.
If anyone remembers back in the day when Quake 2 came out, there was no built in COOP Mode. Within days of the release people were releasing their own COOP modes. ID Software realized the big demand for coop mode, and incorporated it into their next point release (as well as removing cd protection). Perhaps the same thing will happen with Doom III?
So not only are gamers expected to beta test the product while the devs fix up a patch, but now are acknowledged with responsibility for development of crucial aspects of it as well?
Hot damn, I can't wait until I get to make poor managment decisions that scare away all the talent to start up their own studios!