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One reason epidemiologists are especially concerned about avian flu because flu pandemics have killed tens of millions of people before. This was in 1918 when the public health system was less developed, but population densities and the mobility of the human population are much greater today.

Another respondent has already detailed the other reasons why an avian flu is logistically more threatening. Your political/conspiracy theory may be completely true and valid, but the fact remains that people are concerned about the flu rather than ebola or airborne rabies because it's the disease that has been observed to kill in great numbers in the recent, documented past.

The fact that Donald Rumsfeld might be profiteering from the hype does not mean that avian flu is not a real threat.

The choctaw.

I'm not sure how much or from what tribe but my parents have told me I'm part Indian. An uncle on my moms side says the same thing but he told me to get the info from her. Appearly she won't talk about it because it a "dirty secret". As she has a French Canadian background I believe it's Ottawa or one of the Iroquois Confederacy tribes. My dad also has a French Canadian, er Acadian, background I don't be supprized if there was Indian in his background as well.

And a small group of people but still numbering in the millions wants to kill us- mainly because we make them feel bad because they are so backwards but partially because they are educated from birth that we are "monkeys" and not human. At 4 years old they are pledging to commit suicide killing us. At 5 years old almost a decade ago, they were cheering in the streets when we died.

Who are these people? Do you mean Arabs and other Muslims? Thinking of bin Laden? You may not recall or know this but bin Laden only started his war on America because the US stationed troops in the Holyland, Saudi Arabia. After Saddam invaded Kuwait there was a concern he may invade Saudi Arabia as well. bin Laden told the Saudis his al Quada would defend SA if Saddam attacked, but they declined his offer and asked for the US's assistance. It was only after this when the attacks came, he wanted the infidels out. Prior to the Kuwaiti invasion the US had indirectly supported bin Laden. We supported the mujahideen in Afghanistan, of which bin Laden was a member, in their fight against the Soviet Union.

As far as the US making people mad, it's only right that many do hate the US or at least the policies of the US. The US has a bloody past, it has assasinated or supported those responsible for killings of leaders in other countries. The US helped in establishing the Shah of Iran in power as well as Saddam later. It supported Gen Pinochet's overthrow of a democratically elected government in Chile after which thousands were killed and tens of thousands simply "diappeared". In other parts of the Americas it supported regimes in Guatemala and Honduras while many Mayas were massacred, and the Contras while they were terrorizing many in El Salvador. In the Middle East the US continues to support Israel, even after Israel attacked the USS Liberty. On the other side of the world the US supported Indonesian President Suharto's invasion of East Timor, this dispite a congressional bar for such aid. Pres Ford and Henry Kissingergave Suharto the greenlight for the invasion. After the invasion about 200,000 East Timorese were killed, that's one third the populationof East Timor.

Fact is is there are plenty of people who quite rightly have the right to feel hatred for the US.

Again- the problem is that in an age where even a 16 year old can kill 10 to 20 people, you really don't want people sworn to killing you so they will go to heaven wandering around unsupervised.

I'd have to say I'm the opposite of you, I'd rather keep my liberty and take to chance of being a victim than give up any liberty for a little temperary security. As Benjamin Franklin said, paraphrasing, "Anyone who gives up liberty for a little safety will get nor deserve either." Besides it's government that is the biggest threat to both liberty and safety. Look throughout history and you'll see the biggest massacres were done by governments or those trying to seize control. Most recently it's been Hitler, Pol Pot, the Rwandan government, Soharto, and Stalin. Saddam, who the US supported might be added as well, as well as Chiang Kai-shek led KMT's invasion of Formosa, otherwise called Tiawan. 28 February 1947 was Formosa's Holocaust. Some have also said Mao was responsible for 50,000,000 dead.

I

• George W Bush is the only president with a criminal record
• Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton were impeached, but not convicted
• Richard Nixon was set to be impeached, but had the brains to resign first
• Thomas Jefferson had 187 slaves
• Franklin Roosevelt was a cousin-fucker
• John Tyler was a Confederate and the only president to become a sworn enemy of the Union

Dividing Iraq along ethnic lines has been considered as a strategic option since before the war:

U.S. 2002 Pre-invasion Plan to Divide Iraq Into Three Separate States

Great post on oil drilling but your economics is flawed. [SNIP] We give them dollars and they give us stuff.

The tender [for mid-war Iraqi oil; the war isn't over and has probably only just begun], for which bids are due by June 10, switches the transaction back to dollars -- the international currency of oil sales - despite the greenback's recent fall in value. Saddam Hussein in 2000 insisted Iraq's oil be sold for euros, a political move, but one that improved Iraq's recent earnings thanks to the rise in the value of the euro against the dollar.
in
See also Carol Hoyos and Kevin Morrison, "Iraq returns to the international oil market," Financial Times, June 5, 2003 and
Faisal Islam, "Iraq nets handsome profit by dumping dollar for euro," Guardian, February 16, 2003

What makes the IOB [IRAN OIL BOURSE] the subject of such interest by the American government? According to rumors, which first vaulted the issue into the spotlight, the financial exchange in the aforementioned bourse will trade for oil in euros instead of the U.S. dollar.
Iran's Oil Bourse: A Threat to the U.S. Economy?

In 2005-2006, The Tehran government has a developed a plan to begin competing with New York's NYMEX and London's IPE with respect to international oil trades - using a euro-denominated international oil-trading mechanism. This means that without some form of US intervention, the euro is going to establish a firm foothold in the international oil trade. Given U.S. debt levels and the stated neoconservative project for U.S. global domination, Tehran's objective constitutes an obvious encroachment on U.S. dollar supremacy in the international oil market.
The Real Reasons Why Iran is the Next Target: The Emerging Euro-denominated International Oil Marker

Maybe he's a democrat: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/10/31/florida_te rminals_dont_cooperate/ http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0 DE0DA103EF93AA25751C0A9609C8B63&n=Top%2FReference% 2FTimes%20Topics%2FPeople%2FB%2FBush%2C%20George%2 0W. http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=vie wArticle&code=20030715&articleId=106

War Propaganda and the Capture of Saddam Hussein

Now where is YOUR President when your country is under fire of ennemies?

> But the good news is that the US is a democracy. Good, I feel safe and warm now. Is it a kind of democracy like this?

iraq started trading oil in euro and now iran is doing it too. coincidence? i think not.

-- cut --
With speculation mounting over the possibility of a US- or Israeli-led military attack of Iran sometime later this year, it has been suggested that real motivation for US antipathy towards the Iranian government has little to do with concerns that Tehran is developing nuclear weapons. Some commentators have instead suggested that Iran's real Iranian threat to the US and its economy is that, in defiance of the US administration, it is attempting to establish an oil 'bourse' (exchange) in March of this year which would enable oil to be traded in euros. This would move oil sales away from their usual denomination in dollars and would, it is argued, undermine the American currency with grave consequences for the US economy.
-- cut --

http://www.energybulletin.net/12463.html

-- cut --
The Iranians are about to commit an "offense" far greater than Saddam Hussein's conversion to the euro of Iraq's oil exports in the fall of 2000. Numerous articles have revealed Pentagon planning for operations against Iran as early as 2005. While the publicly stated reasons will be over Iran's nuclear ambitions, there are unspoken macroeconomic drivers explaining the Real Reasons regarding the 2nd stage of petrodollar warfare - Iran's upcoming euro-based oil Bourse.
-- cut --

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CLA410A.html

google

BLOGGED BY Joseph Cannon ON 8/22/2006 7:23PM

The Men Who Knew Too Much? NSA Wiretapping Whistleblowers Found Dead in Italy and Greece

Adamo Bove and Costas Tsalikidis: Both uncovered a secret bugging system and both met untimely ends.

Was That Just A Coincidence? And Who Made Your Cell Phone?

Guest blogged by Joseph Cannon

Is someone murdering people who know too much about NSA wiretapping overseas?

Two whistleblowers -- one in Italy, one in Greece -- uncovered a secret bugging system installed in cell phones around the world. Both met with untimely ends. The resultant scandals have received little press in the United States, despite the profound implications for American critics of the Bush administration.

Last month, Italian telecommunications security expert Adamo Bove either leapt or was pushed from a freeway overpass; he left no note and had no history of depression. Last year (March, 2005), Greek telecommunications expert Costas Tsalikidis met with a similarly enigmatic end. Both had uncovered American attempts to eavesdrop on government officials, anti-war activists, and private businessmen.

The Bove case relates to the long-standing controversy over the CIA's kidnapping of cleric Abu Omar, who was flown to Egypt and tortured. The post-Berlusconi government of Italy is attempting to arrest and try all of the CIA personnel involved. Bove used mobile phone records to trace more than two dozen American agents.

Bove had also revealed that his employer, Telecom Italia, had allowed illegal "spyware" -- undetectable wiretaps -- to infest Italy's largest communications system. His testimony helped to uncover the unsettling relationship between SISMI chief Marco Mancini and Telecom Italia head Giuliano Tavaroli. (Mancini, recently arrested by Italian investigators, has also come under some suspicion for his possible role in the strange affair of Major General Nicola Calipari, killed by American troops in Iraq.) In the 1990s, Bove had received wide praise for helping to secure convictions of two bosses in the Camorra, Naples' answer to the Sicilian Mafia.

The case of Costas Tsalikidis -- an engineer for Vodaphone, Greece's top telecommunications firm -- offers a similar picture. Tsalikidis discovered an extraordinarily spohisticated piece of spyware within his company's network. The Prime Minister and other top officials were targeted, along with Greek military officers, anti-war activists, various business figures -- and a cell phone within the American embassy itself. This page gives a full list of the targets, very few of whom could be considered as having even a remote connection to terrorism.

As investigative journalists Paolo Pontoniere and Jeffrey Klein report:

The Vodaphone eavesdropping was transmitted in real time via four antennae located near the U.S. embassy in Athens, according to an 11-month Greek government investigation. Some of these transmissions were sent to a phone in Laurel, Md., near America's National Security Agency.

According to Ta Nea, a Greek newspaper, Vodafone's CEO privately told the Greek government that the bugging culprits were "U.S. agents." Because Greece's prime minister feared domestic protests and a diplomati

i remember that Brazilian electrician killed in the UK. Charles Menezes Police 'faked Tube death log' Special Branch 'altered record' in attempt to switch the blame for de Menezes shooting By Sophie Goodchild, Chief Reporter Published: 29 January 2006 Extraordinary allegations that Special Branch officers deliberately falsified vital evidence to hide mistakes which led to the killing of Jean Charles de Menezes at a south London Underground station were made last night According to claims in the News of the World, police altered the contents of a logbook, which detailed the Brazilian electrician's final movements, in a bid to cover up their blunders. http://team8plus.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_view topic.php?590.30 and its happeing all over the US. maybe not with deaths, and not as apparent, but the same type thing. How many planes have been forced down due to a terror alert ? how about they guy who was mentaly ill, and was waving his arms ? He was shot and killed , i doubt that would have happened if the US wasnt shouting TERROR TERROR at every step. WHat gets me, is stuff like not letting liquids on planes. i doubt that will help a damn thing. http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2006/08/21/dangero us-banned-liquids-given-to-homeless/ Dangerous banned liquids given to homeless Just look at New Orleans. I was here during the hurricane. I had a police scanner hooked to my 12v car battery, nothing better to do for 3 days than listen. the local cops and emergency people KNEW what to do. we have been through this many times on a small scale anayway. The local cops said they felt like stepchildren you can read what i wrote here... Hurricane Katrina A hospital needed deisil for a generator, but could not get it, because DHS had not signed off on it yet. I heard the whole thing live. In Metairie, where i am from, DHS took down the antenna for the emergency personel. Did not bother to tell them. No one knew why communications were out. People could have died (and might have) because of this. The whole thing was a botch job it was like a buch of clowns on fire, trying to juggle shotguns and chainsaws. (excuse the visual) DHS wasnt there, and no one could contact them, but no one could PEE without their buy-off. FEMA came in and "acquired" or "comandeered" what they needed. we dont need no stinking badges. FEMA REFUSED help. I hear, over the scanner, most of this was due to not knowing who was in authority I had freinds that were nurses, that tried to offer their help, and were turned away. I heard about lots of stories like this ... http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArt icle&code=NIM20050911&articleId=929 OK, i might have got a bit off topic, but... The whole bungleup was due to DHS taking over. I cant begin to tell you how money was just thrown helter skelter at this it wasnt ust sad, it was sickening. Heres an account of racism (off topic) but if your interested. Yes, racism was prevelant during this disaster... I know Malik from the Gree Party here in NO... http://uruknet.info/?p=15572&hd=0&size=1&l=x Brad http://911review.org/ http://911review.org/Hurricane_Katrina http://911review.org/Hurricane_Katrina/photos/

We won't have to. If the situation in Iraq is any indication, they'll be too busy killing each other.

You've got a point about the support the US gives to Israel, though....

Smells just like this one. Problably just rallying support for iran/palestina etc. attacks.

And if the terrorists did not exist, some individuals in the government would have invented them.

If MOSSAD did not meddle in the affairs of Palestinian resistance HAMAS would not have been there: http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/ZER403A.html . In fact HAMAS wrecks the peace process in the middle east exactly when and where Israel wants it so it will be extremely surprising if they are not on MOSSAD's payroll (the old question who does it benefit comes to mind).

If Bush and Bliar did not provide free advertising, campaining and support to Bin Laden, Laden would have remained a fringe opportunist. Once successfull, but soon dead. Once again, looking at how many items from his agenda Bush pushed blaming on Bin Laden I would be surprised if Bin Laden is not provided with timely information on the current knowledge of his whereabouts (so he can escape in time). Frankly he should have been dead 100 times by now just out of following dialisis gear shipments in the middle east. As long as he is alive there is a scarecrow to use for scaremongering so he will be alive for a long time to go.

If...

To really crank up the body count to insane levels though, you need to have some True Believers trying to make their utopia a reality regardless of who they have to kill to do it.

You are clearly buying all that's being sold to you by the mainstream media. I won't get into arguments with you, but rather urge you to read the following piece: http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=vie wArticle&code=COO20060720&articleId=2767

If this does not mitigate your feelings, then you're as blind as the Israeli consul general in New York who said last week that "most Lebanese appreciate what we are doing".

Sigh, Israel defending themself etc...

How about you do a little research, start eg. here.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=vie wArticle&code=20060724&articleId=2807

the only thing Iran has to worry about from the US is caused directly by their nuclear weapon ambitions in the first place

Many people who do more than watch mainstream news would dissagree with you on that one. The greatest "weapon" Iran has been threatening the US with is it's plan to switch from trading it's oil in US dollars to trading in euros, something that would be disasterous for the US economy as bills printed simply to trade for oil would come flooding back to the country and need to be exchanged for actual products.

this attitude that the government is bumbling fools (well some of them are) and therefore any conspiracy is impossible is VERY dangerous and very false. when I claim conspiracy, I'm not talking about dubya organsing a massive attack all by himself (in fact I would guess that for plausable deniability, he had no IDEA what the plans would actually entail, just that there would be some sort of attack, and he probably assumed it would be on the scale of the previous wtc bombing or perhaps the oklahoma bombing at the most). Try to follow my line of reasoning:

We KNOW that the CIA and government officials strongly believed that an attack on this scale could be carried out and kept secret, because they presented a similar plan to JFK back in the sixties (operation northwood), and have a long record of decieving the US populace on a large scale (try to find original news footage of the oklahoma bombing where EVERYONE reported secnd and third unexploded explosive devices found by the police/fbi, then look at the official story now: one truck bomb, or look up pearl harbour (hint it was no surprise attack)). you might argue that it would be harder to keep secret now with the net and "better" news coverage, but with 40 years of "conspiracy nutjob" and "questioning the government is unpatriotic" dirven into the publics mind, along with MUCH tighter media control (the entire mainstream media is now owned by a handfull of multi national companies, often huge millitary contractors (eg GE -NBC ) or relatives of people in the administration (such as bush's cousin at fox: the one who announced he'd won the election when he obviously hadn't, and won him the entire "election") it is actually a lot easier now(people, including me, have a very strong association in our heads between the word conspiracy and being crazy/or at best "interesting but probably not true" and feel that only "conspiracy nuts" would bother to look into it)

We know that even when large numbers of people question the truth of something, the mainstream media can and does ignore it (if they are told to) for example, 50% of new-yorkers believe that the government knew about 9/11 in advance and let it happen, yet there is no independant inquiry, no mainstream news DEMANDING another look at the issue etc (take a close, or even cursory, look at who was on the official "investigation" board, and look at their connections. Basically the suspects investigated themselves and declared themselves innocent (of everything it seems, even incompetence)). Many are too brainwashed to see it, and those that do, see how innefectual it was when others have come out and said anything, and how they were treated, lives ruined, fired etc (plus of course if they had any hard evidence of a conspiracy involving 3000 murders, whats one more?): look at the the guy from UL, he wrote a single letter which made a lot of sense, was fired (well he did act as if he was representing the companies views, but if he was under the impression his company HAD certified the steel, then he was really defending his company), he's been fired, picked on as a kook, and god knows what else. I doubt he'll be able to get a similar job for quite quite a while. Or look at john o'neil, the bin-laden expert who died as the head of wtc security, very conveniently, after being subject to a smear campaign for a year. Even the guy that "found" him was sus (ie if there was a conspiracy he was a likely insider)(have a google for him, and read this to start although its more related to bin laden than o'neil).

We also know that government agencies can keep secrets. how many people knew about stealth bombers before the official release. I dont mean thought maybe. oh sure the conspiracy sites talked about it, just like they talk about 9/11. and some people knew they existed, from reading about it, but mainstream news didnt talk about it as fact. You may have acce

With regard to the US funding fighters in Afghanistan I came across a very interesting interview with Zbigniew Brzezinski in which he admitted it was Carter who started stirring the pot with these people and not Reagan as is so often mentioned in media.

Interviewer: When the Soviets justified their intervention by asserting that they intended to fight against a secret involvement of the United States in Afghanistan, people didn't believe them. However, there was a basis of truth. You don't regret anything today?

Brzezinski: Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter: We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war. Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow had to carry on a war unsupportable by the government, a conflict that brought about the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BRZ110A.html

The thirty-six current co-sponsors of H. Res 635 to create a Select Committee investigating the grounds for recommending President Bush's impeachment are Rep. Neil Abercrombie (D-HI), Rep. Tammy Baldwin (D-WI), Rep. Michael Capuano (D-MA), Rep. Lois Capps (D-CA), Rep. William Lacy Clay (D-MO), Rep. John Conyers (D-MI), Rep. Danny Davis (D-IL), Rep. Sam Farr (D-CA), Rep. Chaka Fattah (D-PA), Rep. Bob Filner (D-CA), Rep. Maurice Hinchey (D-NY), Rep. Mike Honda (D-CA), Rep. Jackson, Jr., (D-IL), Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee (D-TX), Rep. Barbara Lee (D-CA), Rep. John Lewis (D-GA), Rep. Carolyn Maloney (D-NY), Rep. Betty McCollum (D-MN), Rep. Jim McDermott (D-WA), Rep. Cynthia McKinney (D-GA), Rep. Gwen Moore (D-WI), Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-NY), Rep. James Oberstar (D-MN), Rep. John Olver (D-MA), Rep. Major Owens (D-NY), Rep. Donald Payne (D-NJ), Rep. Charles Rangel (D-NY), Rep. Martin Sabo (D-MN), Rep. Bernie Sanders (I-VT), Rep. Jan Schakowsky (D-IL), Rep. Fortney Pete Stark (D-CA), Rep. John Tierney (D-MA), Rep. Nydia Velazquez (D-NY), Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA), Rep. Lynn Woolsey (D-CA), and Rep. David Wu (D-OR). Source. All Democrats, but still members. I'm not sure if any are up for reelection this term.

If no member of Congress is willing to stat the process, it does not start.

The US Constitution Article I, Section 2 grants the House "the sole Power of Impeachment." (Section 3 places trial of such impeachments with the Senate.) Under the House Rules, impeachment is governed by Section 603 (in sec. LIII) of Jeffereson's Rules. This states (ommitting crossreferences):

House of Representatives there are various methods of setting an impeachment in motion: by charges made on the floor on the responsibility of a Member or Delegate; by charges preferred by a memorial, which is usually referred to a committee for examination; or by a resolution dropped in the hopper by a Member and referred to a committee; by a message from the President; by charges transmitted from the legislature of a State or Territory or from a grand jury; or from facts developed and reported by an investigating committee of the House.

Most of these methods (such as the abovementioned Select Committee) are internal, but not all. Since a trial necessarily can exhonorate as well as convict, it is not inconceivable that a President might demand his own impeachment trial, to confront and counter debilitating political attack by rumor and innuendo; however, I would consider it implausible given the personal and political character of President Bush. (The president referring the VP for impeachment is barely more conceivable in present circumstances.) Charges may also come from a state legislature, as folk in California, Vermont, and Illinois are currently pushing; if conveyed this way, it must be addressed as a priveleged bill, taking precedence over all other House business. Special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald is currently investigating the executive, with Libby indicted by a grand jury, and Rove anticipated to follow; it's not inconceivable that Cheney or Bush might be next on his list.

With a Republican controlled House, the potential exists for bills so introduced to be p

Just like GW Bush is yours.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=vie wArticle&code=CAR20060508&articleId=2405

State legislators in Illinois and California and other states are getting the ball rolling on it, regardless of the fear and cowardice of national-level Democratic party leaders who don't want to do their FUCKING JOBS.

I agree with you 100% and hate the comments you've had. I include a link about DU I read recently. I think it should be understood that the US (and to a lesser extent the UK) forces are actively engaged in a low level nuclear war right now.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=vie wArticle&code=20060503&articleId=2374

DU is extremely harmful stuff people! After "Shock&Awe" air meters in the UK peaked at 400% normal value radioactive(March2003). Sickens me that people can be so glib regarding this.

How about these then?

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=vie wArticle&code=20041227&articleId=284
http://www.house.gov/judiciary_democrats/ohiostatu srept1505.pdf
http://web.northnet.org/minstrel/certifiable.htm

I suppose that asking an american to do his own research is like asking a baboon to do calculus.

Uncle Sam has reneged and defaulted on up to 40% of its trillion-dollar foreign debt, and nobody has said a word except for a line in The Economist. In plain English that means Uncle Sam runs a worldwide confidence racket with his self-made dollar based on the confidence that he has elicited and received from others around the world, and he is a also a deadbeat in that he does not honor and return the money he has received.

Uncle Sam has reneged and defaulted on up to 40% of its trillion-dollar foreign debt, and nobody has said a word except for a line in The Economist. In plain English that means Uncle Sam runs a worldwide confidence racket with his self-made dollar based on the confidence that he has elicited and received from others around the world, and he is a also a deadbeat in that he does not honor and return the money he has received.

"And how is it the ASTM E119 certified steel in the World Trade Towers weaken/melt after exposure to an uncontrolled & undirected jet fuel fire?"

"See Letter from Underwriters Laboratories(UL) to NIST."

One problem there: "911Truth.org called Ryan Friday to confirm his authorship. Ryan made it clear he is speaking for himself only, not on behalf of his laboratory or the company, but others at UL are aware of his action."

See? It wasn't a letter from UL.

"We know that the steel components were certified to ASTM E119. The time temperature curves for this standard require the samples to be exposed to temperatures around 2000F for several hours. And as we all agree, the steel applied met those specifications. Additionally, I think we can all agree that even un-fireproofed steel will not melt until reaching red-hot temperatures of nearly 3000F (2). Why Dr. Brown would imply that 2000F would melt the high-grade steel used in those buildings makes no sense at all."

Good thing he's speaking for himself. No steel will melt at red-hot temperatures, as these are only 800F or so. Steel melts near white-hot. That's a simple fact he shouldn't make a mistake on.

More from link:
"Your comments suggest that the steel was probably exposed to temperatures of only about 500F (250C), which is what one might expect from a thermodynamic analysis of the situation."

If that's what was found, then the steel inspected didn't survive the jet fuel explosion. As a reference, wood combusts at 441F. Jet fuel combusts at well over several thousand F. The structural steel would have become red-hot in minutes, this is where steel weakens, not melts. The building was experiencing wind and other variables, the mass of an airliner inside it -- the latter understandably unaccounted for in construction.

Again, from link:
"Additionally this summary states that the perimeter columns softened, yet your findings make clear that "most perimeter panels (157 of 160) saw no temperature above 250C."

I'm sure most didn't. But it doesn't take most to destabalize a structure that immense, only some. I also have a real problem with the statement. I personally watched the TV and saw the impacts. Vast balls of jet fuel flame engulfed more than three damn panels. I don't buy that.

The 9/11 Commission was a bipartisan effort initiated not from Congress but from the families of 9/11 victims. Where is the evidence that they covered up or lied about this particular story?

The Families of 9/11 victims are still looking for answers.
Press Release from 10/26/2004 demanding a better investigation Note: the 9/11 Commission was published July of 2004
The top 15 reasons to doubt the official story of Sept. 11, 2001 Number 1: Conflict of interest of those on the commission.

Conspiracy theories are very tempting, but sometimes more logical explanations exist.

And the logical explanation for WTC7 collopse is?
And how is it the ASTM E119 certified steel in the World Trade Towers weaken/melt after exposure to an uncontrolled & undirected jet fuel fire?

See Letter from Underwriters Laboratories(UL) to NIST

snip
We know that the steel components were certified to ASTM E119. The time temperature curves for this standard require the samples to be exposed to temperatures around 2000F for several hours. And as we all agree, the steel applied met those specifications. Additionally, I think we can all agree that even un-fireproofed steel will not melt until reaching red-hot temperatures of nearly 3000F (2). Why Dr. Brown would imply that 2000F would melt the high-grade steel used in those buildings makes no sense at all. /snip

If the buildings collapsed because fire weaken the steel support, then there are some serious safety issues that need to be addressed. But no one has really bothered with this. At the very least you would think building codes would have been updated to mandate better steel and UL would have to update it testing&certification process. Because clearly their certification that the steel used in the World Trade Towers was not up to snuff. Gee, that kinda smells like a lawsuit... but I haven't heard of one.

Don't forget that the Commission was opposed by the Bush Administration every step of the way!

And when W did final give testimony to the commission it wasn't under oath, it was behind closed doors and his vice-president was there to help him.

What kind of "War President" needs his vice president to help him testify?
Why wasn't his testimony under oath and public? (we can't handle the truth?)

But hey the gov't put out a report, so that must be the end of it. Nothing to see here, move along. Oooo look over there the Vice President was out hunting, had a few beers and shot someone. What were we talking about?

This current administration is the most blantly & openly corrupt administration ever. Nixon was almost impeached(his resigned before they could impeach him) for bugging the DNC. Bush admits to illegal wiretaps on untold thousands of Americans on national TV and Congress has to have a meeting to decide if they even want to question Bush about it. WTF?!?!

... and now he's dead, and has been for a while. Take good notice as to when the "tapes" appear - it's always when the media at home needs to concentrate at something else besides the administration - and scare US citizens with "boo terrorists" into accepting something new and Orwellian.

First of all, on a per-capita basis the U.S is more oppressive to its citizens then the Chinese government. An American is almost four times as likely to be imprisoned then a Chinese citizen. In fact, the US has more total people in jail then the Chinese, despite the fact that china has almost four times as many people as the US.

Perhaps that's b/c the Chinese government doesn't bother to jail people when they can just "disappear" them instead. The "disappeared" are conveniently not included the statistics you reference. Don't be so foolish, there's no comparison b/t a totalitarian Maoist Communist government and America.

A simple search on Google will yeild the results you seek:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=WTC+9%2F11+PU T+options+AMR+UAL&btnG=Google+Search

Oddly enough, snopes claims this rumor is false:
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/putcall.asp

Then they go on to say that yes, there was unusual trading, but that it was explainable. But if that were the case, if the traders really do have an iron-clad alabi that it was just their good fortune, why was over $2.5 million in profits never claimed?
Also note that if these trades were done as part of some strategy connected with the generally declining stock market, then why wasn't Delta given the same PUT option treament as AMR and UAL?

Another doubter:
http://www.nationalreview.com/rose/rose20040726070 0.asp

If you buy that story, then you need to look deeper:
(note: not a single source I could find comes from a "major news outlet" - so keep your salt shaker handy)
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/HEN204B.html
OR
http://www.unknownnews.net/010918911.html
OR
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?nof rames;read=73104
OR
http://www.humanunderground.com/archive/lucy.html
(don't read too much of this one, if you value your sanity).
OR
(one of the better articles "connecting the dots")
http://www.tetrahedron.org/articles/apocalypse/ins ider_trading.html
OR
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?nof rames;read=73104
OR
(scarier:)
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?nof rames;read=73105
OR
Sadly, Wikipedia lists this as a "conspiracy-theory":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracy_theor ies

yeah you really got to hate aiding a fascist country.... i cant believe google would do such a thing, oh wait, they still haven't, unless i missed, last time i checked, id be pretty sure china is a COMMUNIST state...... but what would i know...
and you know, aiding a fascist/authoritarian state NEVER done by a US company, or you know maybe the US government.....
and the majority of western nations would never let a dictatorial regime take control of country, even if it resulted the deaths of anywhere from 200 000 to 1 000 000 (some sources say over) innocents dying.... and the imprisonment of over 1.5 million political prisonners....

After many years of trying to convince europe its unnecessary, the US still reserves the right to shoot the satellites down if it wants http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=vie wArticle&code=20041026&articleId=557

Any links to those videos?

Dude, just Google for a while, read the texts, watch the videos and listen to the audio to get pointers on what to search for next. Go with it for a while. There is a crap load out there and it will come back to haunt GWB one day.

Unidentified crowd of people walking through street in Iraq being bombed.
A dead child is collateral damage?
Torture.
What is wrong with the three pictures at the bottom? Besides the fresh blood, tied person in civilian clothes and people in US soldier uniforms with identities masked as an afterthought?
Rape.
Murder and American pride.
British mercenaries working for Aegis made this video of driving around Baghdad shooting at random cars for fun.
Don't hit the mosque!!! Just kill those that come out, but only once they are well clear of that mosque!!!. (Afghanistan)
Small boy. Arms blown off, torso very badly burned.
Well said.
Another small boy. Badly burned torso also.
Ah, so this is liberation?
Another shocking death of an innocent child.
What could a little girl have done to deserve that?
I can imagine without US ugliness painted on her face, she must have been a pretty young girl.
Oh, say can you see, by the dawn's early light...
A coffin load of dead children.
The enemy.
Poor sweetheart.
Wouldn't you feel free too?
A US soldier ties a terrorist up.
This all seems reasonable doesn't it? I mean I know how dangerous my own 8 year old niece is.
Good old Yankee respect.
What must those damn parents be putting in their children's heads? Thankfully, unlike the US, not bullets. Just the fear of them.
U S A ! U S A !
Some people say these photos are bullshit, because US does not wear jungle camo in Iraq...
Well what the fuck is this?

Yep, the very same Coleman that Galloway tore a third anus into to go along with his matching set of the one he defecates with, and the one he thinks with.

Coleman is worthless.

The only reason he is a senator is because of Wellstone's tragic plane crash. He was a strawman candidate in a no chance race.

If you can handle the sissification, read a couple of congressional daily reports:

• Coleman plays straight man to Hatch
• Barbara Boxers Coleman's ears in

If Coleman had any morals, he be investigating the Americans implicated in tthe Oil for Food scandal, but he is too much of a party hack to investigate family and cronies of the President.

Here's an example of Coleman's compassionate conservatism:

"United States Senator Norm Coleman said today that the devastation caused by Hurricane Katrina offers an historic opportunity to revitalize the Gulf Coast, while providing for economic incentives that will ensure massive investment in intellectual, physical and technological infrastructure."

Coleman Press Release September 5, 2005

You say natural disaster, Coleman says "historic opportunity"; and he released this one week to the day after Katrina had hit New Orleans.

The same type of historic opportunity that made him a senator...

Of course in keeping with contemporary conservatism's rampant hypocrisy, their vaunted fiscal responsibility shines brightly by their funding this "massive investment in intellectual, physical and technological infrastructure" with the work product of the future. Norm shares another common trait with contemporary conservatives.

Coleman the chickenhawk

Coleman was born on August 17, 1949. That made him Grade A prime monkey-boy fodder for the Vietnam War, but Norm never served in the military. Judging from his appearance back then, he was on the antiwar side of the equation when it was his turn to march off to war.

"A lottery drawing - the first since 1942 - was held on December 1, 1969, at Selective Service National Headquarters in Washington, D.C. This event determined the order of call for induction during calendar year 1970, that is, for registrants born between January 1, 1944, and December 31, 1950.

[...]

The highest lottery number called for this group was 195; all men assigned that lottery number or any lower number, and who were classified 1-A or 1-A-O (available for military service), were called to report for possible induction."

Coleman's number would have been 154

Source: The Selective Service System website

Or perhaps Indymedia:

http://indymedia.org/en/2004/10/112239.shtml
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/10/11/home_offic e_fbi_mlat_request/
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BOW410A.html

does mommy China know you got her credit card ?

the Constitution will likely be discarded in favor of a military form of government.

Left wing Global Research has interesting view of same.

From the newsmax link: "In [Cigar Aficionado]'s December edition, the former commander of the military's Central Command warned that if terrorists succeeded in using a weapon of mass destruction (WMD) against the U.S. or one of our allies, it would likely have catastrophic consequences for our cherished republican form of government."

Gee, if we're only going count the voices of our soldiers when considering the question of war, maybe we should listen when our top soldiers warn us of impending governmental doom. Or is that too obvious? (PS: articles complement each other)

SEC. 102. WAIVER OF LAWS NECESSARY FOR IMPROVEMENT OF BARRIERS AT BORDERS.
Section 102(c) of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 (8 U.S.C. 1103 note) is amended to read as follows:
`(c) Waiver-
`(1) IN GENERAL- Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the Secretary of Homeland Security shall have the authority to waive, and shall waive, all laws such Secretary, in such Secretary's sole discretion, determines necessary to ensure expeditious construction of the barriers and roads under this section.
`(2) NO JUDICIAL REVIEW- Notwithstanding any other provision of law (statutory or nonstatutory), no court, administrative agency, or other entity shall have jurisdiction--
`(A) to hear any cause or claim arising from any action undertaken, or any decision made, by the Secretary of Homeland Security pursuant to paragraph (1); or
`(B) to order compensatory, declaratory, injunctive, equitable, or any other relief for damage alleged to arise from any such action or decision.'.

"Q: And neither do you regret having supported the Islamic fundamentalism, having given arms and advice to future terrorists?

B: What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?

Q: Some stirred-up Moslems? But it has been said and repeated Islamic fundamentalism represents a world menace today.

B: Nonsense! It is said that the West had a global policy in regard to Islam. That is stupid. There isn't a global Islam. Look at Islam in a rational manner and without demagoguery or emotion. It is the leading religion of the world with 1.5 billion followers. But what is there in common among Saudi Arabian fundamentalism, moderate Morocco, Pakistan militarism, Egyptian pro-Western or Central Asian secularism? Nothing more than what unites the Christian countries."

Needless to say, the US forces left the South Vietnam Republic as soon as the elections were over and the South Vietnamese lived happily ever after. Err, wait...

And here's something to set you off: Condi in '08. Romney in '16.

And to our readers in Baghdad : Al Zarqawi in '08, Bin Laden in '12 ? All thanks to Dubya.

...allowed the Taliban to nearly destroy Afghanistan
No, the Soviets destroyed Afghanistan after we lured them in with the intent of creating "their Vietnam". The Taliban rose to power in an already destroyed nation.

mod up - this is true and not well known.

The mujahadeen were recieving funding and training from the US, ironically Osama bin Laden being the recipient of some of it as well! I guess what goes around comes around as he did the 9-11 thing, the US set up a government in Afganistan, which now runs about as much of the country as the Russians did beforehand.

And don't forget the Iraqis are having a good go at kicking out the unwanted American forces and government. Though obviously the right for Iraqis to bear arms was left our of their constituion.

Given that the gun lobby is a major force in the Republican party its only going to be a Democrat government that gets hit by the NRA calling its members to arms.

I don't know if any of these are really new ideas but they seem to have come up a lot in 2004.
- Affordable space tourism for the masses
- Podcasting. ipod+time shifting+rss
- The Seriousness of Fake news. It seems like even the mainstream news channels like CNN have started to incorporate comedians and irony in their shows. Jon Stewart interviews John Kerry, and the daily show book is a best seller. Many articles are written about why people are so turned off the real news channels.
- Global Economic Crash imminent. The declining US dollar is at risk of being dumped by Asia and losing its status as world currency to the Euro - potentially trigger global economic crisis. Another scenario involves the 'peak oil' theory and the increasing price of oil.
- Fighting Terrorism using Drug War tactics. An interview with John Kerry in the NY Times magazine reveiled that his view of terrorism as a problem you fight locally in a similar fashion to drug cartels and not as a global war fought at the level of nations.
- Sex Slavery in America. A controversial piece of investigative journalism in the NY Times posited that sex slavery is widespread in the US.

(1) http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/statistics/pro duct/enduse/imports/c0000.html
(2) http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ us.html

You might want to read this too...

• Petrodollar Warfare : Oil, Iraq and the Future of the Dollar by William R. Clark
• The Real Reasons Why Iran is the Next Target: The Emerging Euro-denominated International Oil Marker

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BAK411A.html

On the other hand, there might be a funnier outcome to the current fall of the dollar value : just imagine that the OPEC countries decide to use the Euro instead of the dollar as a reference currency... Now *that* would be fun :-)

There is a well-thought-out "what-if" on just that scenario at by Richard Clarke (update) with the horror story further expanded at at this Canadian site.

A "real fun" scenario is, if the OPEC nations follow Iran and begin demanding Euros vs. dollars for oil, then there is a real possibility for US==banana republic (which it is beginning to resemble quite closely) economically, once the Saudis and Japanese and Chinese cash in all their dolloars for Euros. See a rather detailed analysis of how we got into this mess from Morgan/Stanley.

There are serious doubts in many people's minds about whether the stories of cell phone use on September 11th 2001 can possibly be true. See for instance this article on Global Research.