Slashdot Mirror
Real ID: You Can Still Fight It
toupsz writes "Bill Scannell has created a website where anyone and everyone can fax their senators regarding the Real ID Act. Note that the act is up for vote on Tuesday, May 10th!
All those against the Act might want to go to Bill's site: UnrealID.com.
Thanks, Cory from BoingBoing!"
Yep... wonder what happened there?! Hoax?
I mean seriously, what is so bad? Is everyone really buying into that Big Brother Crap where the government is going to know everywhere we go and shiat?
Most European Countries use ID's like this already.
Typos in the headlines. What are editors for, again?
/usr/games/fortune
This will swing the deal, because nothing -- and I mean nothing -- persuades Senators faster than a room full of bulk faxes, all sent from the same website and all basically the same!
Sheesshh.
How can so mainly nominally smart people be so dumb about how best to influence the democratic process.
Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
now it's to late for everyone as it's has been /.
no sig yet
kabooom!
Bruce Schneier's weblog has some thoughts on RealID and why it's a terrible idea and won't increase security. Highly recommended.
All movements for social change begin as missions, evolve into businesses, and end up as rackets.
yep, saw the whole saga. Real time problem solving, mate. That article was a dupe, eh.
when this site gets slashdotted, how are we supposed to fight it?!
Not a hoax, but it was a dupe: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/05/07/ 1754217&tid=179&tid=185&tid=17 ...an ill-fated dupe.
Tell that to all the judges that can't get confirmed.
It's ok... She'll get the ban on violent video games she's after, it's all a wash in the end.
"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." -Albert Einstein
Of course this is slashdot and we are supposed to think alike and reflexively be against anything the government does in the security arena. But I *really do* want to know that the person boarding the airplane with me is who they say they are and not on an expired visa with a fraudulantly obtained ID (like the 9-11 hijackers on expired visas with fraudulantly obtained Virginia driver licences). I *really do* want the government (all of it including state and local subdivisions) to enforce immigration laws and to know if somebody's visa is expired.
So thank you for the information, I will call/fax my senator to let him know that I want him to vote in favor of Real ID.
The arguments in the "What is RealID" section are ludicrous.
Linking together databases is not spying. Just because China and Vietnam have national IDs doesn't make it a bad idea. A lot of people, after passing the driver license test, still can't drive properly. What's that got to do with illegal immigrants and national IDs?
To me, it sounded like it was written by the guys that wrote about peak oil and the 911 conspiracies.
You can find a lot of nations that have unique ID but not capital punishment, weapons in every house and don't make war every 10 years. Uh, and they have a working social security too!
Wouldn't it be more productive to attempt to persuade the President to use his much-neglected Line-Item Veto than to attempt to stop a military spending bill for one of its riders?
That what was all this school was for... to teach us how to solve our own problems. -- janeowit
i see the fax site is down. slashdotted, or government conspiracy?
we already have social security numbers. but i still dislike the idea.
Cogito Eggo Sum, I think therefore I'm a waffle
just use the "pedo-terrorist" justification...
almost as bad (but actually works) as the chewbacca defense
The minority party in the Senate isn't nearly so toothless as you make it sound. Every vote counts, and with the filibuster rules, the minority party wields a significant amount of influence.
"I have never won a debate with an ignorant person." -Ali ibn Abi Talib
Standards for ID's so we can be sure if you have an ID you are who you say you are.
This was a common sense idea, which was agreed to by everyone on the 9/11 commission.
Can a despotic regime misuse this? Yes. But bank accounts, credit cards, etc. could also be used.
I can see no good reason for not doing this unless you are pro-criminal or paranoid.
Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
and cuss him out for not reading it, you might want to read the text of it yourself. You know, just maybe. Democracy requires an informed populace to work, and if you believe the partisan propaganda in the headline of a Slashdot story, how are you any better than a Republican senator who buys the partisan propaganda of the bill's author?
Like Cherry OS itself, it was deemed to be a copy, and thus taken offline. Fitting, I'd say.
I dont even have a senator, you American-centric clods!
For all the ranting about the US quickly turning into a Nazi state where everyone will be showing their papers all the time, I'm still not sure this is a bad idea.
If I thought it would actually help keep illegal aliens out of the country, or assist in their detention and ejection once they're here, I'd actively support it!
But the Republicrats want as many illegals as possible, for their votes and cheap labor, and if this Real ID stood in the way of either, it wouldn't even have been proposed. So as nothing will stop the transformation of this country into another third-world cesspool, whether this bill passes or not doesn't matter at all.
1. It encodes the data digitally? My current driver's license has a mag stripe on the back that does that.
2. The data is readable at a distance? If you're really concerned about that possibility, wrap your license in foil.
3. There's a master database being built? I've got news: private companies have already done that. They've purchased the state databases, digitized them (including biometric data from your picture), and make them available for a fee. Las Vegas casinos love it for determining the identities of who's gambling in their places. Big Brother government, when it wants to know all about you, can, and does, buy that same info.
Real ID doesn't worry me. I'd be more concerned with the US becoming like the UK, a country burying itself in surveillance cameras (and soon, audio devices). That's the real Big Brother scenario to me, when it becomes possible to track and records one's every movement and every public utterance.
That's what happened in the UK with some of the ID card 'consultations'. Individuals writing to the consultation panel with words of assent (in green ink on the back of the Daily Mail, no doubt) were counted as a vote 'for' the proposal. The signatures/voices of *thousands* of campaigners presented to the consultation panel were treated as a single 'against' vote. So today the government states that the majority of people are in favour, according to their research. And now that they have such a huge popular mandate....
That is not a vote. And if the democrats phillabuster every thing on the table when they gain power again the republcans will do it right back at them.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
It was a dupe, so it was deleted.
If you actually care, scroll down and read the original story. Otherwise, get on with life and stop being so paranoid.
UnrealID: Tournament Edition
All your Sybase are belong to us.
Instead of using now the SSN for identification, you can use an ID number. And if the ID is lost, stolen, or abused by a third party you can make a new one with a new number. Anybody trying to do that with the old number would imemdiatly trigger alarm. Not perfect, but still better than having your SSN at the mercy of everybody's weak or inexistant security on how they store your identification.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
erm... where?
No, but I imagine we might be censored.
A driver's license is just that, a license to drive a car. Same with a Social Security card/number, to identify you to the IRS and Social Security. Yet both of these are used as general identification. I think it's about time we had a standardized identification card. How many bars have gotten in trouble with the excise police because the accepted a fake out-of-state drivers license? It may have been the first time the bouncer saw a license from that state, and thus, has no reference in his mind. If this passes we might have something to replace Social Security numbers as the primary key for credit agencies that won't be treated as both identification and a password.
Sure, I'm probably going to be flamed a whole bunch for this, but ever since the national ID card issue developed in the U.S., I've been left wondering what the big deal about this is. States can pretty much get the same info off of you from a basic driver's license, the project is under development in the UK (apparently the project will create lots of IT jobs over there - I know jobs vs. limited freedom isn't much of an argument, but it's not a bad thing is it?), and until I see some solid evidence to the contrary, I see no reason not to believe it will help reduce, at the very least, illegal immigration. I can see a cop walking down the street asking people for their national ID card (which, on an aside, I prey will at least be difficult to counterfeit), and at least I wouldn't complain too much. The ACLU provides five reasons why the system would be a bad idea here, of which only reason #1 seems to make sense. I would love to hear opposing views on this, since, even though the idea doesn't seem too bad to me, I'm still on the fence. Flame away.
That is, until the republicans do away with the filibuster: http://www.gallup.com/poll/content/?ci=16195
...there isn't anymore--the site's been Slashdotted.
Unable to connect to SQL server
They...are..trying to stop...us....ahhhh!
PAY for this shit? LOL. Idiot.
List the governments of the history of the world that have not ended up repressing their citizens.
Amazingly the list keeps coming up empty.
http://slashdot.org/~MrToast
what we really need is to have a world wide identification system, that is also tied to a universal screenname/email etc. also, this should be the sole form of credit currency. this chip should be placed in the skin, preferably on the forhead or hand.
we shall call it... the mark of the best!!!
(note, while im kinda making this a light hearted jab, i realized in all honesty that its not a happy matter for the people that will still be on the earth when this is inacted)
Your papers are out of order!
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies. -- Groucho Marx
I would fax my senator, really would.... If I had one /disgruntled DC resident
--
Why did they post this just today!? Seriously, it would have been so nice to have at least 2 days heads up. Now I have to magically allocate some in my already booked schedual to draft a letter to these assholes, which will ultimantly do no good, but which must be done.
If you feel strongly, you could just contact your senator yourself. http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/ senators_cfm.cfm/
I'm sure that a letter/email/fax from an actual constituent would carry a lot more weight than a bulk fax from some guy with a website.
With this many slash dotters reading that article, the author should have a paypal $1 donate button. After the end of the day, he'll have $1 million dollars to pay a senator to kill that kill.
The States are supposed to be the ones to determine these types of issues, not the federal government.
Most issues are supposed to left up to the states, the Federal government is supposed to have a very limited amount of authority over the citizens.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Just one question:
Who was the editor who posted and pulled the story?
I guess I don't understand the difference between real ID and the passport. The only thing is that its a passport/drivers licence hybrid. Is this a replacement for the passport, the driver's license, or the plain identification card. Because if you are over 18 and you don't have a driver's license, you may have the plain ol' identification card. Seems kinda weird that it should be different from the standard driver's license. Or maybe they will change the background color (like that worked in the past). I must say that the site was pretty one-sided and didn't argue both sides. I don't think that it is the best idea with putting all your information on the same card that you have with you at all times. Might as well just burn a barcode in the back of our necks at birth. That way they can only look up the information, they can't specifically read it off of you.
Not every criminal on the street is going to have the equipment necessary to read this. For that matter, drivers' licenses are readable at a distance, assuming you have good eyesight. However, I do agree that some people should be allowed to have P.O. boxes or fake IDs: undercover agents, people in the Witness Protection Program, etc.
In France, a "carte d'identité" only establishes one thing: that you are a french citizen. It doesn't establish your right to vote, your right to drive, your right to work, or your right to enter the national/european borders. In short, I'm not sure why it's useful at all. I don't see why it's particularly evil either.
there's no place like ~
I'm a Canadian, but I well enough understand how to pick up a phone and call - especially for legislation like this.
Calling is quicker, satisfying, and far more effective. Surely there are toll free numbers too, if cost is an issue?
At this point there is nothing that can stop the passage of REAL ID short of a line item veto when it reaches the presidents desk .. and that's simply not going to happen.
It's part of the spending bill, which just so happens to be a war bill, and was passed by some 350-50 margin in the house. If you think the Senate is gonna vote an 80 billion spending bill down you need your head examined.
Bush will sign this into law even tho he doesn't want to, because if he doesn't, he'll never get anything through the Judicial committee. Sensenbrenner pretty much drew a line in the sand after the Pres promished him last November that he would get the opportunity to bring it to the floor after effectively demanding it be removed from the 9/11 bill. In some ways, the white house hopes to use this to leverage the immigration reform Bush has talked about twice.
I stole this
>> I can see a cop walking down the street asking people for their national ID card (which, on an aside, I prey will at least be difficult to counterfeit), and at least I wouldn't complain too much.
You one of those people who think it's alright for the police to harass the citizens then?
Whatever happened to just cause?
If I can't smoke and swear I'm fucked.
What we need to do is change the reason this is happening.
This bill got slammed before, The ONLY reason it is going to make it into law ( and it will make it ) is because its attached to a huge military spending bill.
Neither side at this point wants to hamper our military by killing this bill so this law will pass no matter what you do ( ok maybe thats being over dramatic but its pretty close to true )
What can we do that would prevent this and half the other useless laws that get passed each year?
We need to voice our opinion against unrelated laws being piggy-backed together to get things past the general public and congress.
It should not be possible to have 2 laws totally unrelated in the same action!!! Congress should not be able to attach a law banning you from eating hotdogs to a law funding the federal goverment.
Its biases, deceptive but in todays congress a very common practice..
"Hey you, yea you republican, Yea if you get your people to vote for this democratic bill giving us all raises, we will let you piggy-back that important bill we vetoed last year to ban those evil hotdogs you hate so much, You know I rub your back you rub mine?"
Personal Website
Oops! You bwoke it.
Yeah, all 20 or so out of 220. That's 10%. Boo-hoo. You know, neither Clinton nor Bush Sr. even tried to nominate judges so controversial that not even FIVE members of the opposing party would budge on opposing them.
I would like to see more enforcement along the borders. Both of them. But one positive benefit will be that illegal immigrants won't be taken advantage of by heartless money grubbers who could afford to pay a decent wage if they wanted too.
Most of those crossing the border are just looking to better themselves and their families. We need a legal way to help those who want "the American Dream" and kick those listed above out.
I don't get it? If the Clinton administration was trying to sneak this thing through, we'd hear cries of "jackbooted thugs" and "America under seige by the lih-rals"! But if G.W. Bush does it in the name of fighting "Terra", it's OK? To be fair, I'm sure there are a handful of right wingers and libertarians who are true to their beliefs regarding "Big government" and they are hopping mad. But, I don't think it's a majority. There are too many "Americans" who are willing to band over and lube up for the Bush administration as long as G.W. keeps smirking and telling them what they want to hear.
Let's put it in another context. If you had to choose between two people to get involved with in a long term romantic relationship, which would you choose:
Person A - Attractive when well polished, tells you the things you want to hear ("You're the most amazing person I've ever been with" or "We were destined to be together, I can feel it" or "You make me feel like no one else has ever made me feel before") and a liar.
or
Person B - Attractive even if not polished, but tends not to work on the polish, tells you things point blank without any flair ("I love you very much", "I'm glad I met you", " You're a good friend as well as my partner") and is completely trustworthy.
A lot of people would chose person A even though that person is likely to be bad for them. The reason is that person A makes them feel good. Person B, just doesn't compare even though person B is the perfect match.
The president (as much of an idiot as he appears many times) has a lot of people working on his polish. He also says the things people want to hear in order to feel good. And he is a liar at worst, and a fool at best. It all comes down to one basic fact: Americans don't want to face the truth. They don't want to be told about the bad things that are happening right now. They don't want to accept that America is losing it's grip on the world and the only way to keep it is by military power which is leading us deeper into dangerous ground. And now, national ID cards?
Once more, it's time for you damned fool Red Staters to wake the fuck up and realize that the "jackbooted thugs" are here but they're wearing smiley faces and have their weapons deocrated with flowers. We're under attack by our own government and a lot of you are too stupid to realize it. By the time you do it will be too late. And when you complain, I'm going to laugh at you and spit on you.
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
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Dear fools and idiots,
In case you hadn't considered this, the ID card will contain an excess of information about you that can be read by anyone. As we all know, the SSN number was never supposed to be used for anything other than Social Security yet in fact it is used for many more purposes than this.
In the case of an ID card like this, does every business you go in need all this information on you? They will get it when you are forced to swipe your card - purely for ID purposes of course.
"Oh, I don't see the big deal..." - That's because you are a stupid retard who cares more about people adopting a crappy free piece of software than what is going on in the real world. Don't worry though, the media will give you your opinion on the topic soon enough so you don't need to waste any time thinking for yourself.
No mainstream Republican will be able to claim they represent small government ever again, when they voted in a president who signs such a reckless and constitutionally irresponsible bill into law.
What will happen to those of us who refuse to sign up for an identity card? Or sends the assigned ID card back to the Big Bureau of Bureaucracy cut into shreds in an act of protest? Jail?
Slashdot requires you to wait longer between hitting 'reply' and submitting a comment.
I dont see a problem with it. Sounds like a left wing whine
When a place gets crowded enough to require ID's, social collapse is not far away. It is time to go elsewhere.
-From the Notebook of Lazarus Long
The difference between Theory and Practice is greater in Practice than in Theory.
http://www.rootstrikers.org/
If I'm looking a the right Senate bill, the Emergency Supplemental Appropriations Act for Defense, the Global War on Terror, and Tsunami Relief, 2005, it appears that the offending Real ID Act portion has been removed.
Have you read my blog lately?
Sorry, but thats as simple as it can be put.
This is the Information Age more than ever before, and any good (in the sense of being competent) entity (commercial, Government, or private investigator) can find out everything pertinent about you with any ONE identifying piece of info: name, phone number, address, where you work, SSN, car tag, etc. In some cases it may be illegal for a Government entity to do this, but I'm sure we can trust all Government entities to follow the law, can't we? [insert appropriate emoticon here]
/. saves the IP address of each post anyway.
A national ID card won't violate anything that's not already being violated, it will just be a public admission of what's already being done. Perhaps it would be a Good Thing to have it, that way everyone would have a clue as to what has happened to their financial and legal identity - that it's owned by themselves, but by the owners of commercial and government databases.
"Papers? We don't need no stinking papers!" "We have The Technology."
I'd post as Anonymous Coward but I'm sure
Tag lost or not installed.
I read it over, but STILL hit submit too fast...
the English of using 'themselves' doesn't look quite like right, but I think I get my point accross.
Tag lost or not installed.
Am I the only one who remembers Senator Everett Dirksen introducing this very same type of legislation (I believe during the Kennedy Administration) and then withdrawing it because he was informed it was unconstitutional? So why is it now constitutional and why has no one informed the writer of the bill of its potential constitutional illegitimacy? It says something about the current "Republicans" in power that I can look back with almost a sense of nostalgia at an era when Republicans were capable of bipartisan and constitutionally sound behaviour.
"Is this Winkhorst a nova criminal?" "No just a technical sergeant wanted for interrogation."
Real ID: You Can Stll Fight It
Perhaps this was deliberate! Like, it means "you" can still fight it, but "I"'m not gettin involved cuz I know you're all gonna end up goin down as anti-americ... hey, stop laughing. I'm tryin to be serious here! YOU must be part of it too!!!
_____
"The squirrels! They're after me!!! They think I'm nuts!!!!!"
Karma: NaN
I don't understand how an illegal alien can do anything legally when their very presence in this country is illegal.
The only real problem I have with this bill is that it uses a standard practice that I think should be outlawed. It has been attached to another bill about something entirely unrelated.
There should be a bill that states that it is illegal to attach a bill to another bill. To make sure this important bill gets passed it should be attached to a vital bill like giving congress a pay raise.
Here is a pdf of the bill they'll be voting on. H.R.418 REAL ID Act of 2005
It's all fantasy anyway.
Assuming that works sort of like viewing changes between two revisions of a Wikipedia article, I'd say the only part of the Real ID act that was struck out was the part where it says "This division may be cited as the Real ID Act of 2005." The other stuff stricken out looks unrelated to the Real ID part.
I don't think its as good news as it first appears to be, unless I'm mistaken.
Slashdot requires you to wait longer between hitting 'reply' and submitting a comment.
I don't give a shit if the guy in the seat next to me claims to be bobo the dog-faced boy. What I do care about is that he does not have a weapon, and cannot get into the fricking cockpit. A National ID does not stop that from happening.
It will also not stop another Timothy McVeigh, who as far as I understand was never busted for anything prior.
What it will do is create more red tape, and the perception that government is doing SOMETHING so it must be making us safer. It will probably INCREASE terrorism as well. Why?
Because as the government continues to push more draconian laws, they will begin to piss "patriots" here in this country off. It may very well create a positive feedback loop.
I value what little privacy I have remaining, and I should not have to carry a piece of plastic just to fricking travel.....
If we were serious about stopping terrorism, we would stop playing world policeman. The arrogance of my fellow countrymen just amazes me sometimes. It's as though americans believe we have a god given right to intervene around the world if we don't like a certain government, etc.
The Republic is Dead. Long Live the Empire...
Service guarantees Citizenship! Questions Guarantee GITMO.... Amerika Uber Alles!
As a voter, I am appalled by the attempts of our government to implement a 'national ID' under the guise of 'improving our security'.
PUHLEEZE. This country is, by and large, no more nor less safe than it was before 9/11. It IS, however, a **** of a lot less convenient.
I'm sure that YOU don't have to deal with the side affects of DHS, TSA, et alia. As a private citizen, I assure that I do, and that I'm well aware of _why_ I do.
Driver's license security has _already_ been improved under the guise of anti-terrorism. The primary goal of this measure is to know where everyone is, all the time (the ideal security state, and one from which I fear we are not far).
When the state has the ability to place monitors on every inch of public/gov't land, to listen, watch and record, will we then be safe? The means to enable that future is rapidly coming to hand, and I, for one, would rather not contrbute to building that particular foundation.
Section 203 of the bill requires the linking of motor vehicle databases including all moving violations.
Remember the days of speeding through Wyoming or Texas, paying the fine right there when you got caught and not having to report it back on your home state insurance?
Well, those days are over.
I would take these guys more seriously if they weren't using SQL Server :(
If I wanted the REAL ID act to pass w/out opposition, I'd create a site that purported to send faxes to senators and then I'd email boingboing saying "Look! You can fight back! Without doing any real work!"
[o]_O
WHen you have rules on how to make the system work inefficiently, you know there's a problem. It would be nice if we could get *something* done when part of the body doesn't want to talk about a particular issue.
"Because Science" is one step from "Because old book". Try "Because of my experiment testing my falsifiable assertion".
See EPIC's National ID Cards and REAL ID Act.
Ah, we seem to have forgotten already about all the judges Bill Clinton couldn't even get voted on. Did you know that most federal judges now sitting are Bush and Reagan appointees? Doesn't it bother you that these "conservative" judges now are even too liberal for the current crop of neo-fascists who control the Republican Party? No, I didn't think so...
"Is this Winkhorst a nova criminal?" "No just a technical sergeant wanted for interrogation."
Do we now judge the government and its actions by how bad they are?
Personally, I want our government to confirm the identity of anyone receiving official identification docutments. The text of the bill just says that state governments will have to start doing things that I assumed they did already. Corporations have much more information on us than this puny bill requires the government to collect. Why do you think the Dept. of Homeland Security is now one of the biggest customers of many large commercial consumer databases?
- First, any site with a Matrix fetish loses all credibility.
- Second, clearly the site is designed to spread FUD. The fake image of the "Real ID" card indicates that the card will contain information such as Religion and Occupation. It will not. Read the bill. FUD.
- The site says cops will die. Right. Because when cops are working under-cover they will be carrying their real ID cards. Just like today, when under-cover cops are required to carry their badge and drivers license. Oh, wait, no they aren't. FUD.
- "every convenience store learns to grab that data and sell it to Big Data for a nickel" Right. Because every time I got to the convenience store I have to present my license. Oh, wait, no I don't. FUD.
Anyway, the site goes on with a bunch of rambling, random conspiracy nonsense (We'll turn into a communist state! Oh no! The highways will run red with blood!). There may be good reasons not to support this bill, but this web site doesn't give you any.Read the bill yourself. Don't trust this unreal.com guy.
After you decide if you want to support the bill or not, contact your senator through www.senate.gov.
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Comment removed based on user account deletion
Yeah, better protest... reading the act, the card will require awful, intrusive things like
An adress of current residence
A signature (oh, no!)
A photograph (the horror!)
and... wait for it... a DRIVERS LICENSE NUMBER.
Those bastards! How dare they force my driver's license to reveal confidential information like my driver's license number! It's a crime against humanity, I tell you?
Seriously, though. I have applied for drivers license in two states and neither of them will have to change a thing under this law, except being overseen by a federal organization. Maybe this means I'll finally stop getting jury summons for a state I haven't lived in in three years.
...it's really a sad day for America when we require a goddamn ACT OF CONGRESS to make our DVD players work properly. ~
Fundamentally, there is no constitutional requirement that the people of the US be subjected to international human traffic. There _is_ a constitutional requirement that the people of the US be free from the sort of subjugation implied by a national security state that views residents of the US with so much suspicion that they must prove their citizenship.
Seastead this.
How is this bill going to prevent the documents that are required to get a RealID from being forged in the first place? Granted, this is outside the realm of most illegals, but if the intention is to stop terrorists from coming into the country under guise, than they are more than likely well-funded enough to get forged documentation to get a real Real ID. This is, at best, a short term solution that will, more than likely, become a long-term problem.
It's all fun and games until someone loses the key to the handcuffs.
Go sign it? Go change it? What is the deal with YOUR PERSONAL ACTIVISM? Why cause not only you whore out Astroturfing for your friends Websites, you also believe we have to "Gogogo" and think the same way as you do? Fuck you. I will think what I want to sign or not, not just because you are some political schmuck who is a drone.
I'm glad the Republican control of Washington means a smaller, less intrusive government, protecting state's rights to self-government. And real tough security measures, to protect us from terrorists.
Wait - Republicans have controlled the White House, Senate and House of Representatives for years? The WTC planebombers and OK City bombers all had legitimate ID? I'll have to wait for the next Fox News cycle to get ny updated talking points.
--
make install -not war
... to know what music I listen to". But the more I read, the more angry I became. What the heck does music have to do with my driver's licence?
Real ID, indeed - Real Netwerks must be stopped! I'll use Winamp from now on!
---Emily Litella
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I wrote:
The implications of having a card like this are HUGE.
We must address a variety of privacy concerns, including if the card will have its own ID number, how long that number is, whether it has 'check digits' in it to verify that is is valid (a checksum or 'hash' in computer lingo), whether anyone can request or retain the information in it, whether it has the person's address, if the address's city is the Post Office's or not (various villages are not recognized by the USPS), If there will be an RFID embedded in it, and if so, what information will be accessible via that RFID, and many other questions.
Please address these issues in committee or in the Senate before voting quickly on something with so many privacy concerns attached. Various people in and out of the US Senate have said it is a very deliberative body. This bill cries out for committee hearings to determine what the advantages and disadvantages are for various items of information being put on the card as well as the open questions above.
Thanks for your time,
Cordially yours,
-- Kevin (etc).
Unitarian Church: Freethinkers Congregate!
What does this mean for America? 1. Dead Cops. The Real ID Act requires that you give your permanent home address.... ....
....
....
Your driver's license does too, so what's the difference? 2. Stolen Identities.....
Sorry, this is already underway. 3. Government Spying.
The Patriot Act does this too. 4. Papers, Please.
Your driver's license does the same thing, just doesn't have a chip in it (yet.) 5. Unsafe Roads.
A few illegal immigrants aren't making the roads dangerous, it is the poor condition they are in with ever increasing traffic of SUVs that will crush most smaller cars.
The National ID card will be forged and sold on the street very soon after it is introduced...don't think it will change much, unless everyone is totally honest and obeys all the laws.
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
Long ago we seeded your blue planet with life. We diverted the asteroid that killed off the greater part of the reptillian species and paved the way for your ascendecy. You, as a life form, have been engineered to generate the a EMF matrix in which we thrive. The RF tags are but the beginning of our methods to keep you from harm. Know you will flourish in servitude and love for us.
The Real id act will allow the governmanet to control your lives. You don't even need a drivers license to drive a car. Study what citzenship is. There is 2 forms of citizenships in America. 14th amendment citizen (District of colombia citizen) where the congress can tell you what you can and can not do. Soverign citizenship where you (the citizen of the 50 soverign states) tell the government what it can and can not do. The Real Id Act will turn into a slave to the goverment. Rember adolf hilter's germany YOUR PAPERS PLEASE FOR SS POLICE.
Your quote is misleading. The difference here is that Democrats are using the fillibuster to block Judicial nominations, something that has never been done before.
http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_2721531
As much as I find the concept of IDs repugnant, having IDs controlled by the national government is no different than having IDs controlled by the states.
I don't like it, but it's really no worse than the current situation. I've also read the part of the act that refers to the national IDs, and I didn't see anything about people being required to have them.
I support the Center for Consumer Freedom
From what I understand, us is Cali won't even need new driver licenses. I think we already fit all the rules.
Hollow words will burn and hollow men will burn.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
This is obviously a cunning plan by toupsz to bring down the site. Why else would he include the link to the website twice? Turn your caches off, and don the tin foil people!
Your congressmen will be thankfull for you putting a stop to their offices being slashdotted with faxes.
Irene KHAAAAAAN!
It is left completely open for the government to add WHATEVER it pleases to it in the future. They can add RFID transmitters into every card and then track where every person is all the time. Congress has already talked about the idea of using RFID and it will probably happen. There are absolutely no restrictions for what the government can add to the ID. It is also up to the state whether or not they are going to use it, but if they don't use it they get no more money from the federal government. Sounds like a win-win to me. See you guys in 1984!
Seriously though, I have still not been able to figure out the whole "privacy" debate. All the information that is on these cards, as far as I can tell, including address, is information that can be publicly observed. Of course, this raises the question "should it be legal for someone to follow someone around to determine where they live?"
Where you live isn't necessarily a private piece of information, but I can understand the desire people have to not make that information easily available to anyone who might want it. The plain fact of the matter is, there isn't really any such thing as privacy except where there is no possibility of observation.
The dilemma faced by legislators - and the average citizen - is how do you know if people are telling the truth? How do you ensure "trust"? It's a pain in the rear in modern society - it used to be that you lived your life in a small town where you knew the entire town, and when outsiders came in they were treated with suspicion until they were around for long enough with demonstrated character to be trusted.
That is, in fact, the only way to build trust: continued demonstration of certain behavior. This isn't even a guarantee of future behavior, which is the nasty caveat. So, as far as I see it, at best any new type of ID will be a neutral thing. In reality, it will probably carry some nominal fee and so not be good, and it will also probably be abused by certain people or organizations.
The thing is, society is based on trust, and all this type of thing demonstrates is that people are less likely to trust than in the past. The other interesting thing is that you really cannot legislate trust, or behavior for that matter. You can only build trust, and you can only punish or reward behavior. Those are the only controls in society: reward and punishment. It's the unfortunate reality of the world in which we live.
"There are a dozen opinions on a matter until you know the truth. Then there is only one." - CS Lewis (paraprhase)
Currently most states do not even require proof of U.S. citizenship to obtain a Driver's License. You don't even need a SSN.
Sigh. SSNs are for getting social security benefits, they do not uniquely identify you. And why should someone need to tell you where they live to get a driver's license? Does it somehow effect their ability to drive?
We don't have ID cards because we're supposed to be a free people that don't have to register with the government just to live. I guess such outdated ideals were thrown away because the TV scared all the little cowards into being afraid of the big, bad terrorists. You're a a stinking coward if you're willing to give up your freedom to let the government try to protect you and an idiot if you think they can or will. How about trying out a little personal responsibility? If a terrorist tries to blow you up, shoot them. This is America, right?
"(3) Subject each person applying for a driver's license or identification card to a mandatory facial image capture."
So now they wont even need your ID card to know who you are, they can take a picture of you and know everything about you based on the image capture they took.
Hah, you guys thought they would ask for your cards.
I don't know... I've been in NY with a Maine license for awhile now, and every time I'm ID'd at the store when buying beer, the manager has to come over to inspect my ID & verify it's legit. I've had a couple bars refuse to let me in because they thought it was fake.
So, if the RealID thing means I can get my beer quicker, I'm for it. Hell, I'll vote in favor of a law using babies as alligator bait if it means I get beer easier!
"Nothing exists except atoms and empty space; everything else is opinion." - Democritus
I'm posting this anon since this is an even-more-offtopic reply to an already offtopic post...
Your signature is wrong. Linus has said that he prefers to pronounce his name as LINE-us when he's speaking English.
Watch the documentary Revolution OS someday--it's got a lot of interesting things about the history of OSS and Linux, and there was one segment where Linus talks about how he pronounces Linux and his name. Yes, Linux is always LIN-ux, but he pronounces Linus differently depending on what language he's speaking. He gave three pronunciations--one in Finnish, one in Swedish, and one in English, and the English pronunciation was LINE-us.
first someone calls me an "idiot" for PAYING slashdot for a subscription..
then i defend slashdot, and say that the only "idiot" are the people that DON'T help out the fine people at slashdot for providing this service..
then you mod me horrible, so I'm only able to comment no more than twice a day..
some fucking ethics you guys have..
Genius:
The mod was for your post, which was off-topic. Don't take it personally. Mods are not intended to be personal rewards or punishments (even though many people use them that way) but are intended to make it so that people with actual lives can read slashdot and get useful information without having to read drivel.
Thank you for your attention.
The idea of a national ID card doesn't bother me, but the idea that a cop on the street can randomly stop people to ask for their papers? I'm sorry, but that scares both the willies and their little monkeys too out of me.
As I mentioned, if someone wants to give me a national ID card, cool. But if I'm required to carry it on me at all times, if my freedom of movement, speech, participation, whatever is restricted based on that card, then we've instantly lost an enormous amount of our freedom, and that's just scary.
--------------------- -me, Crusher of those who are Foolish (don't be foolish)
While your statement is humorous, it is also so very true. Pork barrells should be banned.
Other than that, I agree that more IDs and red tape and global policing isn't going to help jack squat.
Constitutionally Correct
You also agree with the first reason which is that the cards do not solve the problem that they are designed to fix. If you agree with this statement then the real question becomes why DO we need Real ID?
This is my last post.
[6th Estate]
well then if you remember correctly, the RedHat 'sndconfig' played a test sound in which he spoke english, and clearly pronounced his name LIN-us..
god you people are so fucking anal.. i don't know wether or not you're just anal, or like it anal.. one of the two..
I don't believe a policeman asking to see my ID card qualifies as harrassment. And as someone who has been on the receiving end of police harrassment, lemme tell ya that getting my ID checked out is paltry compared to what they CAN do to you.
It's funny...other democratic nations have laws in place where cops can ask anyone for their ID whenever they like, and no one even so much as sez anything. Take, for example, Japan; granted, Japan has all kinds of problems, but I personally don't believe this to be one of them.
And, as debatable as it might be (read: flame away ), suspicion of being a terrorist could one day become just cause. It pretty much already is here in New York.
I've seen a lot of heated controversy over this. What I'm curious about is:
* How will giving us a new ID with the same information as my drivers' license help anything?
* Why is this a bad thing?
I'm sure there are good reasons for both, I just haven't seen anything but blind faith that it's somehow better, or wild, unfounded paranoia.
You'd think, though, that someone in Congress would be asking these questions?
________________________________________________
suwain_2
Most European countries are analogous to US states, not to the entire US. And most European countries learned from their 20th Century fascist disasters just how dangerous is the centralized control of identity. So European privacy laws, and government operations, aren't a tinderbox of identity theft and covert surveillance risks. The US, on the other hand, is swarming with powermad bureaucrats, and their corporate backers, doing whatever they can to turn the $2.5T Federal government's eyes on our citizens, on the hollow pretext of "protecting us" from terrorists.
For more information, look into the MATRIX and TIA programs, their connections to identity leakers like ChoicePoint, and the seriously real threat all this Big Brother "crap" poses to Americans.
--
make install -not war
And the country is full of H1-Bs and L-1s here to take our jobs.
Mos of us are stupid and deserve to lose.
I'm sorry that you love liberty that little.
My identity, much less the information on my personal papers, is simply not a beat cop's business.
Unless he's looking for a specific person fitting my description ("I have an arrest warrant for a Richard Roe, fitting your description, please show me some ID to prove you're not him or I'll have to arrest you"), my name and information have nothing to do with whether he has a reasonable suspicion that a crime has been committed.
I see no reason to beleive that it would help reduce illegal immigration. I certainly see no reason to curtail the liberties of American citizens in a half-assed attempt to pretend to reduce illegal immigration.
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
I may be wrong, but doesn't the Federal government already control Social Security, which in effect applies a serial number to every legal citizen in this country? This seems to me one short step further - the Feds do indeed have a limited amount of authority, but I feel the national ID cause falls under said authority. Sure, I could be wrong - feel free to prove it to me.
Apparently, we have collectively b0rked their SQL server, so we can't send a fax through it.
If you would still like to take action, consider writing a well-argued, personal fax to your senators. You can get your senators' contact info at Project Vote-Smart by just supplying them with your 9-digit ZIP® code, and they will list off your other elected officials, too.
www.wavefront-av.com
that having a license automatically makes you a good driver.
Work Safe Porn
Dude:
STFU, before somebody with mods goes to all of your old posts and mods them down just because you're a whiny little bitch. _I_ would if I had mods.
I have a feeling that a national ID is one of those things they will continue to push until they finally get it. President, Congress, none of that matters, they will do it regardless. They, Them - The Men In Black.
about national id under clinton
Know your customer
Lots of other articles on this, check with google. Type in "clinton national id" and "clinton know your customer".
well you know, it is considered a form of punishment simply because it denies me my RIGHT as paying subscriber to post a comment.. thanks to this crazy mod, my karma is horrible and I can't even post anymore.. its retarded
Well, it's really no big deal. The new $20's have RFID tags built into them. I figure if i don't like the card, i can always just stick it in the microwave for a few seconds to kill the RFID chip, or take it to the magnetics lab for a day, sit it on a transformer. They can try to make me carry the card, but they can't make me be nice to it.
Here is the message template that eff.org (Electronic Freedom Foundation) provides to write your representatives to speak out against the REAL ID Act. Use this if you're having trouble thinking of what to say. I know I'm encouraging thoughtless messages to congress, but hey, too bad for the idiots that support this bill:
------------------
I am a constituent who cares about privacy and national security, and I urge you to oppose the REAL ID Act provisions of the House emergency supplemental spending bill. The REAL ID Act creates a de facto "national ID," threatening our privacy, security, and the principles of federalism that safeguard both.
National identification systems are prone to abuse at every step of their creation and use. The REAL ID Act would establish an enormous national database of ID holders, where even a small percentage of errors would cause major social disruption. Also, the ID would function as an internal passport that would be shown before accessing planes, trains, national parks, and court houses - an irresistible target for forgers and identity thieves. The Act also requires IDs to include "common machine-readable technology," which would likely include controversial radio-frequency identification (RFID) technologies that can broadcast personal data to passersby. Worst of all, the REAL ID Act would divert resources from security measures that could actually work.
Moreover, states do not want this kind of system. A similar program called "MATRIX" recently failed because states abandoned it due to privacy concerns. This is an example of federalism at work. We should respect a state's decision to protect its citizens' privacy, not conscript it into an ill-conceived national system.
I hope that you will work to strip the REAL ID Act provisions from the emergency supplemental spending bill. Thank you for your time.
-------------
With the first link, the chain is forged.
If you were modded into oblivion, I don't think you could post AC anyway...
http://www.aila.org/contentViewer.aspx?bc=10,3080, 5940,9298
Everyone says "This will pass because it's tacked to a relief bill." Ok, that may be true. But what it's also saying is that none of our polititians have the balls to stand up and say "I support tsunami relief, but I won't approve it until it is a stand-alone bill." See how easy that was? They wouldn't even have to say anything negative. Plus they would be admitting they have enough intelligence and willpower to not blindly pass through bills like this. Instead they think every Joe and Jane American is too stupid to understand that they aren't voting yes on this bill because it's tacked to something that is important.
I swear to fscking god politicians are worthless.
I noticed several people not understanding why this is bad. Here are some excerpts from the bill:
`(1) IN GENERAL- Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the Secretary of Homeland Security shall have the authority to waive, and shall waive, all laws such Secretary, in such Secretary's sole discretion, determines necessary to ensure expeditious construction of the barriers and roads under this section.
`(2) NO JUDICIAL REVIEW- Notwithstanding any other provision of law (statutory or nonstatutory), no court, administrative agency, or other entity shall have jurisdiction--
`(A) to hear any cause or claim arising from any action undertaken, or any decision made, by the Secretary of Homeland Security pursuant to paragraph (1); or
`(B) to order compensatory, declaratory, injunctive, equitable, or any other relief for damage alleged to arise from any such action or decision.'.
Secretary of Homeland Security can do what he wants, and nobody has any recourse at ALL. He wanst to put in land mines, nothing we can do about it. Wants to spend 80 Billion dollars a year patrolling our borders, nothing he can do about it.
It errods Attorney General position by giving the Secertary of Homeland security the same power. Bear in mind the attorny general has checks and balances that the Secretary of Homeland Security does not.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Amen! In the Communist Block we shot a lot. Most missed but ... oh no wait! THAT was the GOVERNMENT THAT SHOT AT US ALL - because we were LABELLED "TERRORISTS" when we demonstrated for freedom of speach!!
Tovarish, welcome the the new Communist United Sates!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Thought Id take a moment and respond to the 5 points made in the seed article: http://www.unrealid.com/what.html
1. Dead Cops.
The concept of supporting the various individuals who put there life on the line to protect us on a daly basis is paramount, but I do not see how this ID card will put them in harms way. They have ID's now, do they list a P.O. Box or other non street address. Nice thought, and a hell of a way to open your. The thought of Dead Cops stirs a lot of emotion, but the point of the ID somehow leading to additional acts of violence against public servants is not made.
2. Stolen Identities.
Perhaps you have been asleep, but the little black strip on the back of your current drivers license contains a wealth of information. About you! If, for example, you happen to want to have a drink in a dry area of Texas, you will need to hand your ID to the bar tender for him/her to swipe the card and verify you have a uni-card membership. Again, your statements are based on fear and not of reality. And if you think this information is not sold of now, I ask you where all the junk mail (paper based) I receive comes from.
3. Government Spying.
So, now the government can look into my record within a state database. Ok, and I assume they cant do this now? Thats funny, the state of Florida was well aware that I moved from Texas to NJ when I called to update my address with the child support agency. Get over it Bill, "one database to rule them all" is not going to change anything. Other than make it easier on all of the agencies.
4. Papers, Please.
So, my passport, drivers license and SS card are not a form of identification. But now I will be burdened with a single ID that will be. Seems like a good idea to me, less to keep track of. I have not seen the technical specifications for the recommended card, but the example you have on your site shows the implementation with a "smart card". If this is the recommended technology, and if hey are smart, it will be. Then you have very little to worry about. Go take a look at the smart card specifications. They are very, VERY secure.
By the way, the smart card system also has a provision for "no contact" reading. Now I may be wrong, a technology may have already been proposed. And if so, I will be interested to see how. But I bet it has not been. And if that is the case, you have used the current fear surrounding RFID to cloud reality and make your statement seem more important.
5. Unsafe Roads.
Ok, this is just laughable. You obviously live in a part of our country that has no one driving without a license. Because, not giving someone a license is, by no stretch of the word, NOT going to prevent someone from getting behind the weal of a car.
So, in conclusion I still have no idea why people are so worked up over all of this. But I invite all of you to clearly state a valid concern. Otherwise, go complain about something else. Or better yet do something constructive with your time.
as raised previously, is this section still in there? - i'm at least as concerned over this clause as the the rest of it...we'll see if senator boxer speaks up over this (since it's largely framed in the context of the san diego fence, if i understand correctly)
... is amended to read as follows:
Text from the "REAL ID Act"
Sec. 102. Waiver of Laws Necessary for Improvement of Barriers at Borders.
Section 102(c) of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996
"(c) Waiver. --
"(1) In general. -- Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the Secretary of Homeland Security shall have the authority to waive, and shall waive, all laws such Secretary, in such Secretary's sole discretion, determines necessary to ensure expeditious construction of the barriers and roads under this section.
"(2) No judicial review. -- Notwithstanding any other provision of law (statutory or nonstatutory), no court shall have jurisdiction --
"(A) to hear any cause or claim arising from any action undertaken, or any decision made, by the Secretary of Homeland Security pursuant to paragraph (1); or
"(B) to order compensatory, declaratory, injunctive, equitable, or any other relief for damage alleged to arise from any such action or decision."
The original section 203 mandated that all states must join a compact known as the Driver License Agreement (DLA) which a given member state will share their database with other states and Canada/Mexico. That was removed in the final bill.
Today, there are a very few states that don't take any action on out of state violations (minor such as speeding). Most states, unfortunately, will assess points and even if they don't, they will still put the out of state violation on your record so your insurance company can increase your rates. There are only two states that will not put an out of state minor traffic offense on your record, it is Colorado and NY. However, NY will however, assess points for violations in Ontario and Quebec under a special agreement. Some states will assess points for Canadian traffic violations (OK, TX, CA, WV, VA, NY*, MI-special agreement w/ Ontario only) off the top of my head). States like MD, NV do not assess points but will post out of state violations on record.
The meat of dealing with motor vehicle violations in the final conference report is Section 202d 12 & 13. It basically requires states to keep track of all motor vehicle violations, suspensions, points. I don't know how far they will be required to do this such as only including moving violatgions or all violations such as out of state/country, equipment, parking, etc. Colorado where I live at, they only put pointable offenses on record where as non-pointable offenses are left out such as no front plate,seatbelt violations, etc.
What in the mother fucking hell is wrong with these people? No judicial review? Since when do we remove a major check and balance from the American system? Just let this Homeland security guy play cowboy with no oversite from other factions of government?
How completely, absolutely UNAMERICAN this Sensenbrenner person is. Has no grasp of the long term impact things like this will be to the US. Has no place in our government.
Yah buddy, I said it, get out of our country since you obviously don't respect what made our country great.
------------------
SEC. 102. WAIVER OF LAWS NECESSARY FOR IMPROVEMENT OF BARRIERS AT BORDERS.
Section 102(c) of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 (8 U.S.C. 1103 note) is amended to read as follows:
`(c) Waiver-
`(1) IN GENERAL- Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the Secretary of Homeland Security shall have the authority to waive, and shall waive, all laws such Secretary, in such Secretary's sole discretion, determines necessary to ensure expeditious construction of the barriers and roads under this section.
`(2) NO JUDICIAL REVIEW- Notwithstanding any other provision of law (statutory or nonstatutory), no court, administrative agency, or other entity shall have jurisdiction--
`(A) to hear any cause or claim arising from any action undertaken, or any decision made, by the Secretary of Homeland Security pursuant to paragraph (1); or
`(B) to order compensatory, declaratory, injunctive, equitable, or any other relief for damage alleged to arise from any such action or decision.'.
Doesn't this sound like a happy piece of federal legislation? "NO JUDICIAL REVIEW" is my favorite part.
From H.R.418, "Real ID Act of 2005"
SEC. 102. WAIVER OF LAWS NECESSARY FOR IMPROVEMENT OF BARRIERS AT BORDERS.
Section 102(c) of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 (8 U.S.C. 1103 note) is amended to read as follows:
`(c) Waiver-
`(1) IN GENERAL- Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the Secretary of Homeland Security shall have the authority to waive, and shall waive, all laws such Secretary, in such Secretary's sole discretion, determines necessary to ensure expeditious construction of the barriers and roads under this section.
`(2) NO JUDICIAL REVIEW- Notwithstanding any other provision of law (statutory or nonstatutory), no court, administrative agency, or other entity shall have jurisdiction--
`(A) to hear any cause or claim arising from any action undertaken, or any decision made, by the Secretary of Homeland Security pursuant to paragraph (1); or
`(B) to order compensatory, declaratory, injunctive, equitable, or any other relief for damage alleged to arise from any such action or decision.'.
They would not need line of sight to work.
Put up a detector every 5 blocks on the traffic lights and you can collate everybody's movement. Think you can wrap it in foil? They could make that illegal as well, just as it's illegal to cover up your license plate.
The point is, how much of your civil liberties have to be taken away before you will act? Could it be that it'll be too late by that time?
with links to objective sources that give balanced stories of the pros and cons of a national ID. That way we can think for ourselves rather than merely participating in /. groupthink.
Vote for Pedro
Damn, so for the past 229 years, the United States hasn't really been a nation? Just a hunk of land? And this ID card will fix that?
And remind me exactly how a national ID card will "secure our borders"? Last time I checked, most illegal immigration happened away from our border checkpoints. How exactly will that change with a national ID card?
Sheesh
-b
If I wanted a sig I would have filled in that stupid box.
I thought it was worth my time to send a fax. Then again, if Congress doesn't read the bills, why should they bother to read our faxes! Anyways, I had a lot of SQL errors when trying to fill out the information to send the fax. Refreshing the website seemed to get by it. Just thought I would share.
Every great journey begins with the first step.
I don't think cops should be able to "jack you up" on the street randomly... to me this isn't far off from Nazi-Germany's "Your papers, please!".
I've been harassed by the police a lot when I was younger... granted some times I was trouble, like a lot of young adults/teens.
I don't look at all like your average 'nerd' (I hate the term geek). I work out a lot (although I'm out of shape because I am recovering from a very bad injury), and am heavily tattooed. Because of this cops used to like trying to give me trouble whenever they saw me, even years after I grew up and started behaving.
There's no way in my mind that a cop should be able to stop someone and ask for their ID just because of the way they look.
Coincidently, this reminds me of something I been thinking of... you always hear about how "nerds look" and that they're geeky and stuff. Now I do know of some people who fit this description, but honestly, the best computer people I know are more like me then the stereotype. My group of friends are tattooed, like to work on cars, or woodworking...etc. We also like to kick back with a few beers at the local pubs, and have no problems getting women.
Of course, we all have regular women problems, but they by no means think of us as geeks.
If I can't smoke and swear I'm fucked.
easy for you to say.. you don't pay, and you haven't been modded down.. so fuck right off.. its bull shit slashdot politics..
The following comment on Schneier's site addresses this question:
I am from one of those free countries in Europe. We have national identity cards. But we also have a strong legal framework for data protection and privacy protection. We don't have silly 'everyone must show id to prove age before they can buy alcohol' laws in bars. The US has no legal framework for data protection, or even just basic privacy legislation. That is why introducing a national ID in this country would be a very different story from Europe, and a true danger to the freedom of society. The US needs to do something about data protection first...
Are you volunteering to wander around the country checking everyone's Real ID?
Besides, I can't even remember the last time I had to show anyone my driver's license. I don't buy alcohol or write checks, and I ride the bus. I'm sure illegal aliens could manage without a DL or Real ID just fine. Now how exactly will ID cards protect the borders? Will people be required to pin them to their foreheads?
The problem with this whole scheme is that it will cost millions of dollars the state's don't have to provide no additional security.
Namaste
Maybe we can use these to Login to our PCs as well :-)
What if these so-called illegals aren't stupid enough to apply for a state ID or driver's license? What then? [That sensation that your soul is being pierced is from the blank stare you'll get when you ask any politician for an honest answer to this question.]
Obviously, the guy wants to cut down on the potential terrorist threat. But who in HELL says that a terrorist needs a driver's license? Or a state ID?
So who suffers? The criminals and terrorsts? Hell no- they'll just route around it. That leaves only one other class...the vast, vast majority of people who are neither terrorists nor criminals.
If it is indeed a REAL ID, I'll make my escape while my info is buffering... buffering... buffering... timeout error.
Someday a real rain is gonna come...
~ jallen02 (124384), September 12, 2001
qntm.org
Currently most states do not even require proof of U.S. citizenship to obtain a Driver's License. You don't even need a SSN.
How are we going to secure our borders without a national ID system? A nation without the power to control its own borders isn't really nation. It's just a hunk of land.
article at fairus.org In the following states, legal residence is not required to apply for a driver's license: Alaska, Hawaii, Illinois, Maryland, Michigan, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oregon, Rhode Island, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Washington, and Wisconsin.
Wrong!!!
I am sure others can point out similar bills in other states.
For those outraged enough to complain to their House representatives for passing this crap to the senate in the first place, here's a link to the vote:
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2005/roll031.xml
If you're not living on the edge, you're just taking up space!
What is the going rate for "campaign contributions" so my senator will listen to me? I should probably include that on the email
This insane proposal just creeps the living shit out of me out. Isn't that exactly the Orwellian hell we all want NOT to happen? What's happening to our "representatives"? If they were truly representing us they would fight something insane like that. Otherwise we'd end up in a new Nazi era where our opinions would be even more suppressed and any opposition would be annihilated at the push of a button.
The time to fight this is NOW!!!
And appropriation bills cannot be fillibustered. Which is why I have such heartache with this and the other things in this bill that have nothing to do with funding the mission in Iraq and Afghanistan. There was no floor debate on this act in the Senate - it got added on in comittee and is being rammed through.
Wu-Tang Name: Half-Cut Skeleton Get your own Wu-Na
Each person writes their own statement. That's got to count for something.
(Yes I made my phone calls because every little bit helps!)
Blogging because I can...
You don't have to carry your SS card. Nor do you have to present it when stopped by the police.
Its interesting to note that the current Real ID bill hasn't been mentioned on either foxnews.com or Cnn.com
What we have today is a system in which each state's driver's license and identity card has to be honored by all the others as well as by federal agencies. You show your DL when you fly, and it is accepted no matter what state you fly to. That means that the collection of all these state IDs amounts to the same thing as a national ID.
The problem is that with the situation today, there is no uniformity in policies and procedures for getting state IDs. The result, as anyone familiar with security will realize, is that the system is only as strong as the weakest state ID. For example, several of the 9/11 hijackers had gotten driver's licenses in Virginia, which had a thriving black market in DLs due to lax controls.
Given that we already are in a situation where each state accepts every other state's DLs for identity purposes, we already have de facto national ID. The problem is that the system at present is a security nightmare with 50 different ways to game and beat the system. Applying some uniformity to the procedures for creating acceptable identity documents is a sensible way forward, and should be an improvement over the current hodgepodge of regulations and requirements, some much weaker than others.
Or are you trying to imply that one action someone commits that's in violation of the law makes all their actions at that moment in violation of every law?
For example, if I jaywalk, I'm automatically committing a DUI?
What the heck are you getting at?
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
Here's a tip for you guys. Politicians don't care what you think. If you fax, write, call them, you're not talking to them-- you're talking to their secretary. They will send you an autoresponse the senator ghostwrote. If you're lucky, he might even sign it, but it's usually a preprinted signature. The senator will probably never see what you wrote him. Instead, his assistants will give him summary statistics on an issue, which he will probably ignore in favor of voting his party line, or what the people who really matter to him think. And those people are the wealthy and corporations. Because they give him tons of money, and that's what he needs to remain in office. They are the people that can communicate directly with him. Do you really expect your senator to personally chat with you? To bite the hand that feeds him? He won't. No, you'll just get an autoreply, and will have wasted your time. Democrat, republican. It doesn't matter. They all operate using this same MO. I hope you like getting form letters in response, because that is all you will accomplish.
In fact I think this is a good idea and a long time coming. Having 52 different drivers license versions is beyond redundent. Anyone who travels state to state, or moves will find this a good thing. Anyone who has to ID people, will find this a good thing. Having to figure out the layout of each state's ID is a waste of time. i.e. Your in line at an airport and they're ID'ing everyone. Some guy has to look at each ID, find whatever info it is they're looking for, hand it back etc. With the new system, you could have something like this: You stroll along and swipe your card on your way. A guy watching over things get's your picture on his screen along with your info when you swipe. If it doesn't look like you or the info seem bunk he pulls you aside. Note the picture and info would be coming off the national database and not the card itself. I moved from FL to CA not long ago and had to get a new license. This required all my normal info, a birth certificate, and a retaking of the written test. Not to mention paying the fees for obtaining the cert and taking the test. With this new system I would have had my address updated and perhaps a new picture taken. -Kevin
Wie geht es? Meine name ist William Maker und ich wohne im Oklahoma... wait a second, this isn't nazi Germany. This national ID card is a rediculous attempt at further limiting the rights of Americans. If for some reason my DVD player breaks and I'm unable to watch porn and the only channel on cable that I can get happens to be C-SPAN, and I find out my senators/representatives voted in favor of this. I'm going to be very upset.
William
What is slashdot?
There seems to be a lot of people that claim they like the real id.. can we make JUST them pay for the cost of implementation and leave us sane people alone. -- i bet if bush and his cronies had to foot the bill for this (rather than illegally award the contracts to companies they own) it would not have a chance of passing!
Give me a break, we already have a national ID, it's called a social security card. But anyone that has one knows how flimsy it is and easy to forfeit it looks. And, it's just a number.
And our driver's licenses give us many freedoms throughout the country. I can enter the US from Mexico or Canada with simply a drivers license. I can board a domestic flight with a drivers license. There are many other rights granted to us vis-a-vis our license that should be given to only those to whom they are intended.
The Real ID act is about standardizing what a drivers license issued by a state should conform to, so it's not easier to hack the system by getting a license from one state over another.
The "civil libertarians" are overreacting, period. And I think "citizenship" should mean something and not be so easy to fake and falsify.
SEC. 102. WAIVER OF LAWS NECESSARY FOR IMPROVEMENT OF BARRIERS AT BORDERS.
Section 102(c) of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 (8 U.S.C. 1103 note) is amended to read as follows:
`(c) Waiver-
`(1) IN GENERAL- Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the Secretary of Homeland Security shall have the authority to waive, and shall waive, all laws such Secretary, in such Secretary's sole discretion, determines necessary to ensure expeditious construction of the barriers and roads under this section.
`(2) NO JUDICIAL REVIEW- Notwithstanding any other provision of law (statutory or nonstatutory), no court, administrative agency, or other entity shall have jurisdiction--
`(A) to hear any cause or claim arising from any action undertaken, or any decision made, by the Secretary of Homeland Security pursuant to paragraph (1); or
`(B) to order compensatory, declaratory, injunctive, equitable, or any other relief for damage alleged to arise from any such action or decision.'.
It would be easy to fight this provision in the senate: Just attach a simple amendment that requires gun dealers to scan a customer's Real ID before making a sale!
A note from mom is worth 4 points. (Assuming that note is a properly signed MV-45 form. http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/idlicense.htm#idpoint s )
From dozens of other responses, we can deduce the national ID card scheme isn't good for...
:)
Controlling Immigration
Preventing Terrorist Attacks
Convincing Elected Officials if not bungled with military spending
Preventing Fraud
Improving Overall Security
Helping Law Enforcers
I'm starting to think this bill will strengthen our civil liberties! Whats all the fuss about?
Also, the fact cash got it through contradicts the Big Brother theory. Absolute power corrupts Capitalists absolutely, that is all.
Welcome to the world of stale legislation fellow geeks, park yourself next to the Patriot Act and make yourselves right at home.
I actually ran into this myself trying to post AC from home once. Apparently someone who also uses Comcast made a lot of bad AC post so I wasn't able to post for a bit. /. support indicated that "I had made a bunch of bad post" but I was easily able to VPN to my work network and make the AC post. I was logged in to /. for both attempts so the domain must play some part in blocking.
Jim
"Are we being sensored?"
You mean like a Level 3 Sensor sweep of us?
I would think that if 'we' were to be censored, 'they' could probably just delete our posts or prevent us from typ
My wife is in the US on an H4 visa. She cannot apply for SSN. You are trying to prevent her from getting a driving license and driving a car. I am in the US on an H1-b visa. I don't have a US citizenship. You are trying to get my WA driving license away (you want me to walk to work or what?). Lukasz
Lukasz Anforowicz
Hikipedia - a free database of hi
Doesn't Meta-Moderation balance the mod system out? I hardly believe a single mod is blocking your ability to post so more likely you have made a series of bad post (based on moderators and validated by meta-moderators.
They are criminals by definition. They broke immigration laws and entered the country illegally. Calling them undocumented workers or another PC term is intellectually dishonest.
Oh, you youngsters, thinking any idea is new to politics...
Here's the thing. This is just another step down the wrong path. Just like gun restrictions, these harsh crackdowns mostly affect only those abiding by the law. Little by little, things erode away until we're left with a politically correct police state trying to "protect us from terrorism".
The US Federal government is only supposed to do a limited number of things, and a national ID card isn't one of them. If they want to get a new Constitution that broadens the Fed's powers, then so be it. Most dictatorships don't happen over night.
-----
First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.
Pastor Martin Niemöller
democrats and republicans have their minds made up for them by lobbyists.
anything we say is a complete waste of time.
they do not listen to their constituents which has been very obvious in the schiavo matter, the rights of fair use for electronic media for consumers, and in consumer rights.
One thing I don't think people are getting is that this isn't another piece of plastic or a separate id. It is a driver's license. Right now all 50 states have different driver's licenses/id cards with different data stored in magnetic strips and different laminates to make them harder to copy. This bill basically creates a standard for individual state ids and centralizes the information store. Being opposed to this bill is like being against the W3C for proposing a standard xml specification.
Don't we already have a federal ID? You know, that thing we call a passport.
This is federal government at its finest.
They see a problem that needs fixing and decide to fix it at a cost of millions to hundreds of millions without thinking about whether or not the solution is neccessary or effective. (kind of like airport security)
I figure if I sell one of mine off, I can use the money to influence the other. Neither of them listen to me right now because I don't have huge wads of cash to wave under their noses.
Stuff like this seems harmless to the "average" citizen, and it seems like it could somehow "stop" illegal immigrants and potential terrorists. This is exactly how freedom is lost. Seemingly well meaning bills passed during times of "crisis." Oh I'm sure some will say that I'm being paranoid and shouldn't by all this "big brother crap." But if you give the state the ability to monitor all of its citizens, then you have essentially put yourself into a prison and given away your rights. It's called a panopticon. If the state can observe you at any times, then you lose all freedom. Not because they punish you for things, but just because of the fear it creates. It's the perfect prison.
Now the Real ID does not create a panopticon necessarily. However, it does create the means. If everyone has to have this card with them at all times and it can be "read" electronically, then it doesn't take a genius to connect the dots, through in some GPS (or even just triangulation) and suddenly the state can track the location of all of its citizens at all times. Now imagine if all businesses start requiring Real ID if you're going to use a credit card. That's not really that far-fetched, now is it? So now suddenly much of your economic activity can also be identified and tracked without your knowledge. You can easily get even more wild with the "uses" of such technology, but these two things are both pretty simple and far-reaching.
Read this: Miami Model, and tell me that a national ID (espeically under the auspices of "national security" won't make scenes like this even worse.
As a former security officer in the military, I can comment a little bit on the effectiveness of ID cards. A good high tech ID card, like the Army's new CAC card can be very effective in promoting security. It is hard for the average street crook or ID theft artist to re-create. It's not impossible to forge, but it takes a significant ammount of money and time. Here's the kicker though, loss of the ID card must be reported immediately and updated in a database that contains all ID information. Also, it's not enough to simply look at a card to verify someone's identity. Reference must be made to the database to ensure a forgery isn't being used. How will this create better security? It would allow the government to track terrorism suspects on a national basis (I know, loss of personal privacy is "bad", but that's one of the only ways to reduce the risk of domestic terrorism and nievety doesn't necessarily equal security). I have more to say, but I don't want to write a whole essay right here.
Pod Six was jerks- Capt. Murphy
I am not strongly in favor of RealId or a similar scheme, but Schnier is way out there with regards to what must be practically implemented in order to have some control of access to services and privileges in society. His premise that identification itself is invalid is moronic and simply shows that he has lived most of his life in some sort of ivory tower or another, or improperly imposes the computer security worldview onto the world writ large.
This also goes for Miguel de Icaza who has really shot his wad and is now offering that identification leads to genocide. Hel-lo! Miguel - look up NON-SEQUITER.
MINUTES FROM THE FLOOR OF THE SENATE
SEN ELEPHANT: Read the text of the bill? All of your anarchist concerns aside, sometimes it is simply not necessary. There is nothing that hasn't already been done to drivers' licenses that can make the state into "Big Brother", but much to improve security!
If this law were designed to add burdensome restrictions, it would not be a rider on a military spending bill -- the liberals in Congress would be trumpeting it to the heavens and beyond!
At worst, this bill maintains current rights, and at best, it secures further rights for our citizens. There can be no possible detriment from any of the broad concepts proposed; this bill should be ratified on general principle alone.
I don't need to read the text to see how, exactly , it preserves our rights; enough of the facts have been reported in various places for me to know that it is RIGHT that you join me in voting Yea.
Short-Sighted Neo-Conservative Idiot
The gummint doesn't give a shit about you. Stop pretending there's some big creepy Big Brother that wants to control you. No one cares. You are all nothing but fly specks. Get over yourselves.
Think for a moment, why should the government have the power to track everyone? Any senator who supports this should be punished, how? Figure out which corporations back that senator and stop supporting those corporations.
"If you don't like that idea, I'm sure you could move to Rwanda and be perfectly happy without all the responsibilities of being a US Citizen."
:
I not only have a right, but an OBLIGATION as an American Citizen to question the actions of my government.
"I'm not saying that we do it perfectly... there's plenty of intervention that i think we could stay out of and not be the worse for it, and at the same time I know there are plenty of circumstances that the US could intervene that it doesn't"
That is just it, the USA intervenes ONLY when it is in its interests, i.e. OIL, or geopolitical games.
"If you can live with the ridicule and guilt of your nation NOT doing something that was considered so "wrong" to the rest of the world when you COULD HAVE... fine, I can't"
Hmmmm.... Why haven't you volunteered to go fight for "freedom" in Rawanda, or Darfur yet? Oh that's right you are perfectly happy to say "we" have a duty to fix the world, as long as YOU don't have to risk your life for it. I just love people who talk about how we need to fix the world, as long as the potential cost is someone else.
Frankly we do not have a responsibility to any other nation or people. We have no obligation to send our soldiers to die for someone else, nor do we have an obligation to spend our taxes upon them.
That said I have no problem if you or any other private citizen voluntarily donantes your money, or volunteers to fight for the cause of freedom in another country.
As for Patriotism I offer this quote
Theodore Roosevelt:
To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. (1918)
Service guarantees Citizenship! Questions Guarantee GITMO.... Amerika Uber Alles!
The only thing worse than a pedant, is a pedant who is WRONG.
"We're a republic, NOT a democracy."
Let's grab the top definitions out of my dictionary (the other definitions are along the lines of "A country that has such a political order."):
Republic: A political order whose head of state is not a monarch and in modern times is usually a president
So the US is a Republic, but that's hardly very specific.
Democracy: Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives.
What do you know, we're ALSO a democracy!
Duh, its called the INS and has existed for decades. You go in to their offices or their website and get the forms you need. Or they will mail them to you. Fill out these forms and you will be granted some sort of response. Maybe that response is "no", maybe its "come back in six months" but those are the breaks. Some of us, like me, have stood in line for twelve hours at the INS (with nary a portapotty to be found) in order to get proper documentation. Those that don't or won't are leeches.
I'd be delighted if somebody, who knows how to read pending legislation, would comment on this.
Have you read my blog lately?
No one is going to track you via GPS. No one is going to start a file containing which issues of D-Cup you bought, or how many times you rented "Jackass Volume 57" at Hollywood Video. The "state" is not going to spend its time watching you.
You are not even remotely interesting or important enough to show up on anyone's radar. You are just another paranoid, dumbass wannbe rag tag rebel without a clue.
Dear Senator -
I would like to express my concern regarding the Real ID Act, which has been attached to an appropriations bill committed to supporting our fighting men and women in Iraq and Afghanistan. It seems to me that to pass such a piece of legistlation without first debating its merits does not demonstrate the calculating and reasonable nature of our US Senate. I would urge you to vote against this bill on these grounds, or seek to remove this article before voting on the bill to which it is attached.
Thank you.
With respect,
Peter Sean Chastain
pschas69@yahoo.com
Ignorance and prejudice and fear
Walk hand in hand
...and said thanks! It's about time. I personally don't see anything wrong with it.
DownsizeDC has been spearheading this effort for a while, as well as other efforts to slov the growth of government (it's too early to try to stop it, let alone reverse it!).
REAL ID also prohibits states from issuing driver's licenses to illegal aliens. This makes no sense, and will only result in these illegal aliens driving without licenses -- which isn't going to help anyone's security.
Yeah, that's some REAL good insight.
The prohibition on issuing drivers licenses isn't about driving. It's about identity fraud - including election fraud.
In some states (when you can challenge a voter's identity at all) a driver's license is adequate proof of identity to respond to the challenge.
California (for instance), where a LOT of illegals vote (often multiply), recently almost passed a law explicitly granting illegals the right to be issued a driver's license with no special markings to indicate that they were anything other than a full citizen and resident at the indicated address.
There are a lot of security implications to issuing official identity cards to illegals and deliberately looking the other way about their status.
IMHO the way to spike this bill is to add a rider that:
- requires voters in federal elections to show the card as ID at the polls and give the number when registering to vote and when asking for an absentee ballot, and
- tie the state registration databases into a national system to insure that no vote is cast without a valid ID number and each ID number only votes once in a given election, and that each ID represents a real person who is still alive and has no other ID nuber.
That (combined with the security-related federal checks on the database) would effectively spike a number of forms of voting fraud. Current legislators were elected under a system WITH the fraud. So even the honest ones will worry about how much fraud their party machines might have used to get them their seats, and whether they'd be voting themselves out. B-)
What I'd expect of such a rider:
- The Rs would be for it. (They believe the Ds are the major beneficiaries of such fraud and thus the Rs would benefit from the cleanout of the voter rolls.) But many of them are against other personal-info probing aspects of a National ID system. So they'd push for including the rider (and given their majority in congress might succeed). But many would vote against the bill even with the rider.
- Successfully adding the rider would convince a lot of Ds to vote against the bill containing it, because they too believe they are the beneficiaries of machine politics.
Together these two effects might raise enough nays to kill the bill.
Sounds like it's too late for this go-around. But if the ID bill does pass, and the system is deployed, it will be hard for a congresscritter to justify voting against a new every-voter-counts-ONCE act to use it to reduce election fraud. So the spectre of such use can be brought up when calling your congresscritter (if you think he's corrupt) and it might work as well as if the rider WERE present.
Of course you'll have to couch such arguments as using the card to harass minorities and such at the voting booth. B-)
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Flat out: you are an ideological fuckhead, and completely disconnect from reality. You are typical of the dumbshit wanker conspiracy nutcase crowd. Anyone dare raises a question to your PREEEEEECIOUSSSSSS point of view, oh, well, that person must just HATE liberty and apple pie and fluffy kittens!
Fuck you, asshole. Yours is not the only side in this debate with valid points, and for once in your worthless life consider that you just might not be an all-knowing being of perfection that has all the answers. Or, even better, just drop dead.
Hahahahaha!
It's so funny to watch you all see the effects of Electronic Vote Fraud.
It just has to HIT YA first.
All these problems are due to it.
Well now that I have your attention.
(Not to wander too far but...)
Remember this is all because you can't verify an electronic 0 or 1, I don't give a crap if it's 5 volts, 3 volts, 2 volts or Ground (Like in electricity) or if you store it on some super secure memory chip or if you send it across an insecure network.
You CANT VERIFY IT. Ya CANT SEE IT!
GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEAD.
And now we have databases.
Can't secure em.
When the National ID Cards are out there, you will be a target when you complain too loudly.
If torturing someone with a political disagreement by ruining their life isn't bad enough.
With no geneva convention, we just make you F-ing dissapear forever.
How'd you like that?
The terrorists are here now. Making either corrupt or poor (compartmentalized/uninformed) leadership decisions.
Fix the border. Track visitors, not citizens.
Go sign that thing. on http://www.unrealid.com/
Go file an election fraud complaint.
Arnold (Governat0r of Cali) is going to have another election that can't be verified.
(another trick may be to make us think they're going to attempt to fraud Arnold's special election, and then actually count the paper, and not hack the system. It would guarantee that these machines stay forever. The one they'll hack is in the presidential election. They'd love to do every election. but can not. So what good things have happened since Kevin Shelly burned in flames?! hmmm?)
They're not counting the paper. I truly HOPE you understand that!
AND...
You can only fix them locally!
I like it how he points out grandparent's error and the complains about how people always point out errors.
~ Crummy
Then why do they feel the need to sneak this through with no debate. Why not let it stand on its own merit instead of attaching it as a rider to an Emergency Supplemental Appropriations bill.
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
It's the information it might hold in the future that matters and that's basically anything that the government want it to be. Today they want your name and address, tomorrow they could add ethnicity, religion, sexuality, salary or political preferences.
Hell, they can put anything they want on the database, you're giving them that power, and guess what, you're also giving them your identity. Once an ID system is in place it is the state, the card and the number which define *your* identity, not the other way round. The real Colin Smith becomes the person with the Colin Smith card and the Colin Smith ID number.
You may well think this is paranoid. Well I would have thought so as well but history says that it isn't, look up Tutsi and the J stamp on Google in the context of ID cards.
The thing is that an ID card is an enabler for discrimination, it is *specifically* designed to allow the government to discriminate against non citizens, but why stop there? Adding another field to a database is a seconds work.
Deleted
Just released:
Microsoft founder Bill Gates annouces that Microsoft's soon-to-be-released [sic] OS "Longhorn" will require a RealID card to ensure Trusted Computing. Michael Dell, president of Dell Computers, announces that all Dell systems shipping in 2006 will come complete with a RealID card reader and finger-print scanner. Quoting Mr. Gates, "We have tried to solve the security problems in our product by fixing the bugs, but have decided to take a new direction and require all users to insert their RealID card into their computer to log in. A fingerprint scanner in the trackpad will compare your fingerprint to the one on the card to ensure security. Users will be periodically prompted to reinsert their card to make sure it really is you. All emails sent from Microsoft's flagship product "Outlook" will now contain your RealID number to allow tracking of spammers."
You laugh! It could be next!
To quote Mr. Franklin "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety"
The government calls this sensitive information. Things are are public, but when combined can result in conclusions that are secret.
My mom's maiden name is public information. My address and phone number is public. My social security number is easily available, though in theory non-public. (Nearly everyone uses it as ID) Knowing any one of the above is pretty harmless to me. Knowing all of them is enough to withdraw all my saved money, and get some loans in my name.
This card puts too much sensitive information in one place.
Dude, that's so flat earth of you.
BlackNova Traders
It's the one that allowed ALL OF THIS to happen.
You will each receive an identity disk. Everything you do or learn will be imprinted on this disk. The Master Control Program regrets that it cannot be responsible for Identity disks lost or stolen. if you lose your disk, or fail to follow commands, you will be subject to immediate de-resolution. That is all.
not everything is a science experiment!
If this were going to be voted on in the Senate tomorrow, there would be a senate bill listed at the LOC website. I can't find one. The bill everyone keeps pointing out, HR 418, is a House bill, which has already passed. Here's the link if you haven't seen it enough times already:
8 :
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:H.R.41
Just to check, I called my state representatives. They don't seem to have reliable information either. John Cornyn's office said the Real ID Bill had been stripped from the appropriations bill, sent to committee, and definitely would not be voted on this week.
But Kay Bailey Hutchison's office said that while the thing called "Real ID Act" had been removed from the appropriations bill, portions of the actual text of the bill had been moved back into the appropriations bill without the "Real ID" name attached. She said there was no way of finding out which parts of the Real ID act will be in the final appropriations bill until it's published in a few days. She also said there would be no vote until after it was published, so there should be time to read it contact representatives again if needed. But she didn't know what the designation of the bill would be, making it a bit hard to look up at LOC.
I'm worried by the disagreement between the two offices. Has anyone else called their rep to find out what's going on?
Until a few years ago you were correct, hand written letters go the most weight. However this is no longer the case.
Now any letter is unopened for several weeks, while they carefully check it for various poisons. (well anthrax and the like which are not exactly poison, but are deadly)
Email is now preferred, everyone has email. Most people do not own a fax machine, though they are also liked. Phone calls work too, but they take more time.
Make sure that you give your home address. Not a P.O. box, but a real address where you get mail. They will respond with a letter to that address for everything you send if you are in their area. If you not in their area they will forward your letter to your representative from that area who will respond.
the big problem here is that I lose stuff. What happens if you lose your card? you fill out forms? get treated like a terrorist? get denied basic services? can't access your bank account? and what about identity theft?
i don't feel like getting treated like a criminal just because I'm irresponsible. losing your car keys or your bank card can be a big pain, but this RealID thing opens up whole new levels of potential hassle.
plus, what if THEY screw up? maybe "if" is the wrong word. what happens to people whoose information is lost or corrupted by the system? worse, what if a detremental error slips in? I just hope no one has the "convicted sex offender" box erroneously checked.
all of these problems all ready exist, but I think this RealID system has the potential to concentrate them and magnify their consequences.
not everything is a science experiment!
I go to Mexico frequently, and you don't show a passport when crossing that border in either direction. (That changes is 2006 I believe) Additionally our border is so porous I could probably cross it either way without much effort.
This is how such bills as the patriot act got passed. And congress afterwards looks at it finally and says what were we thinking?
This is how stupid draconian bills that never should have had a chance become laws and later cost large amounts of taxpayer dollars to remove happen in the first place.
Because they aren't even read let alone debated in the first place.
Even if I had supported such a draconian law as Real ID I would voice opposition to it on these grounds anyway. Why because bills that effect our freedoms and our nation shouldn't be rubberstamped into law without a review to decide if they should become laws. This is not why we have congressmen and senaters to rubberstamp bills without seeing if they deserve to pass.
Tell your senators to at least read the bill before voting on it. They owe us at least this much for putting our faith in them by voting them into office to begin with.
Coward? Coward! Thems fighten words!!
But who in HELL says that a terrorist needs a driver's license? Or a state ID?
You're kidding, right? Let's think of things that it is harder for a terrorist to do with a national standard for issuing driver's licenses and state IDs:
- Obtain a driver's license or state ID with a fake name
- Get on an airplane
- Rent a Ryder truck
- Buy Firearms
- Withdraw money from a bank
- Go Clubbing
It blows my mind that the general reasdership of Slashdot, who would assail the concept of security through obscurity were it applied anywhere else, think their personal privacy depends on states being able to issue IDs without actually being very sure if the IDs they are issuing are for the people they are issuing them for. "As long as the government has to keep track of 50 different IDs, my privacy is secure!" Right.
That's all the federal government is saying: If you want YOUR state's ID to be accepted as REAL identification, your state needs to excecise due diligence in making sure the IDs issued by your state are accurate.
If we're going to let states issue IDs that are not worth the plastic they are printed on, what's the point? Why make everyone go through the trouble of getting an ID if the criminals are just going to walk into the DMV and get fake ones anyway?
So if we don't force states to take issuing IDs seriously, who suffers? The criminals and terrorsts? Hell no- they'll just get bad IDs. That leaves only one other class...the vast, vast majority of people who are neither terrorists nor criminals.
paintball
LOL... this was actually a funny article to me. I hope the new Real ID gets passed. When Americans start refusing to hand over their ID for purchases, stores will know it. When Americans put it in the microwave to destroy the RFID tag, the government will know it, and when judges, cops, and other officials are slowly "weeded out" in their own homes while they sleep because some 16-year old 1337 h4x0r broke into their database and stole all the information, they'll know it. I'd love to see Real ID get passed, this way we might learn from it.
-- Game Developers: Stop porting badly-textured games from crappy console systems!
What are you guys fighting so sternly against anyway? An ID that says "I'm here legally, this is what I look like, this is my address, age and emergency contact information". What the hell is wrong with that?
Don't give me Big Brother is Watching You crap when they've already been monitoring us with Social Security cards - or maybe you never heard of those things? Perhaps Birth Records, and Death Certificates as well? Perhaps Driver's ID's and Passports?
Morons, idiots and fools - those are the ones that are angry about this ID. If you have a good argument against it without being angry, go for it. If you're angry, you're just a whining idiot.
Fags.
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"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door."
That is inscribed on what may be the most famous symbol of the USA. The statue of liberty. She stands in NY harbor, welcoming the immigrants since being given to the USA by France, in 1886.
Should we just take the old girl down, then?
Take the 90-Day Challenge! http://rwmurker.bodybyvi.com/
Why does slashdot pretend to be objective? They should just have big pictures of Michael Moore and Jane Fonda and Chairman Mao smiling to greet you on the front page.
YEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGG!
I think the inscription is talking about LEGAL immigration, not illegal.
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"Long live Big Bush
Big Bush today announced today the invasion of Iran, Long live Big Bush.
The thought criminals Kerry,Clinton,Carter and Gore (the claimed inventor of the internet) confessed to be followers of Karl Marx and the pig called Comrade Snowball.
We thank Big Bush for bring these thought criminals to justice. Now please stand for your two minutes hate of Bittorrent users and citizens who buy drugs from non american pharmacists."
Long live big Bush now eat you plusgood supersize me burger.
Send Peter Clifford Francis Macrae comdoms to 23 Bedford St, St.Neots, PE19 1AX, England
I can't find anywhere on the site that you can get a direct link to particular bills (like this one) in such a way that you can send the link to others and they can see it.
I don't like that one bit. I know that it used to be linkable, and it looks like they've intentionally changed the system. We cannot send people links to the text of bills from the source anymore. A cunning and wicked trick.
-Vendal Thornheart
nope, just when your poor and tired huddled masses come in, make sure they sign up to pay taxes and follow the law like the rest of us.
Speak for yourself.
Best practiced in the vaccuum of a rubber room. The most powerful weapon of liberalism is when voices of dissent are silenced.
Unfortunately for slashdot, they can't mod us all down fast enough.
What are you talking about? By definition, everything anyone does in this country is legal except as prohibited by law.
Driving without a license is prohibted by law.
Or are you trying to imply that one action someone commits that's in violation of the law makes all their actions at that moment in violation of every law?
No, but that's not the point. Try not paying a parking ticket and then try renewing your license. It won't happen! Break a law and lose your driving privilege happens, it's the same things with illegals. They are here illegaly and thus have no privilege to drive.
As we all remember from Drivers Ed, driving is a privilege and not a right. If you are here illegally, then get your papers and drive legally or you will be driving illegally.
That's the point the parent poster was making.
Can I get an eye poke?
Dog House Forum
hey, it posted my reply with the wrong parent (see above) I was replying to the one about the poor huddled and such, and it posted it under it's parent. After my submission, it displayed the correct parent, but in the static page, it's wrong. Bug?
Speak for yourself.
I've figured it out, BUSH is the anti-christ and REALID is the mark of the beast
Should we just take the old girl down, then?
Nah, you can still come over, you just have to go through the line instead of swimming across the river.
"We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
I'd just like to relate what my best friend, who is a sergeant on the ground in Iraq, said to me in a recent email.
"I'm not sure people understand that we are a much greater threat to ourselves and our way of life than any terrorist could represent, even with the most heinous plans and horrific weapons. The freedoms we curtail, and the unchecked empowerment we grant our government, has the potential to do real harm to the foundation of our nation, whereas terrorists can only damage buildings and kill people. This may sound callous, but at some point you have to decide that there are ideals that are bigger than any personal loss."
This comes from someone who is shot at daily, and who came within inches of death when his humvee was decimated by a VIED.
"So who suffers? The criminals and terrorsts? Hell no- they'll just route around it. That leaves only one other class...the vast, vast majority of people who are neither terrorists nor criminals."
Hmm, reminds me of copy protection on game cds...
What is scary is that if I haven't read /. but relied on mainstream media I wouldn't even know about it! What happened to journalism??
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No sane congressperson would dare to vote against the troop funding omnibus because all of his peers would immediately label him an enemy of the troops.
Who said, "I actually voted for the $87 billion before I voted against it"?
--- I wish I could hear the soundtrack to my life. That way I'd know when to duck.
Hmmm... it wants those of us in DC to fax Eleanor Holmes Norton. Not only is she not a Senator, she doesn't even get a vote in the House. So, my tax dollars would be used to implement this law and I don't even have someone to bitch to.
Well, except /. of course....
All's true that is mistrusted
So, yes, I'm trying to poison the debate. Until this site becomes objective and stops acting like DU I'm just going to dump my garbage in the forum 10 times per proxy server, 10 proxy servers per day, 5 days a week, 50 weeks per year. I hope you like shoveling because the mods have made up their minds and will not be getting any objectivity.
It will cost another $82Bn (more if it goes over budget. Ok, more).
And what do you get?
Well, nothing.
They are criminals by definition. They broke immigration laws and entered the country illegally. Calling them undocumented workers or another PC term is intellectually dishonest.
Ever exceed the speed limit? Congratulations you, and just about every other citizen, are a criminal by definition.
It is not politically correct to use a term that reflects your feelings about the severity of the "crime." If anything, that is the exact opposite of political correctness. People who have a bug up their ass about the issue can call them wanton dangerous criminals while people who think immigration policy is no big deal can call them undocumented workers and then we can all better know each other's position than if we had simply used a rather non-descriptive catch-all term.
What kind of sock-puppet believing idiots do you think we are? Oh yeah, slashdot readers! I forgot, carry on.
So anyway, I'm a General (BUT, an anonymous general, so just take my word for it).
I say that you are an idiot.
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I live in Texas where it's pointless to try to persuade our senators not to support this bill..... :(
The 9/11 commission essentially recommended a national ID card.
Vote for Pedro
But those immigrants came legally.
The argument are those whom come in ILlegally.
If you just opened the door and let anyone in with no questions asked, there would be a lot more trouble, and not only with terrorism.
There is a right and wrong way to do things, and I know no system is perfect and there are plenty of legit people turned down the chance to move here for a better life. But I know nothing of immigrateion law and all that stuff so I won't een comment on it.
So while yes, I agree with the inscription:
"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door."
I think they need to find a way to do it legally and in cases where they can't, well I don't know.
On one hand I think we should go in and help them, but at the same time I think the US gets involved TOO much in other country's governments. it's a complicated world.
"We have national ID cards in country X and I never ever felt they were a threat to my freedom at all. I'm 35 and so far I think I needed that card about 5 times. Other then those 5 times it is just a card that sits in your wallet and doesn't bother me in the slightest bit. I really don't see what freedom has to do with that."
I'm sure there were alot of Jews who said the same thing when Hitler came to power......
Service guarantees Citizenship! Questions Guarantee GITMO.... Amerika Uber Alles!
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This is slashdot... if you decode the top banner, there is a watermark of Michael Moores fat ass face embedded in the jpeg.
The most recent action on this bill occurred in the House on May 5th. The most current version is H.R.1268.RFS off the link the grandparent provides (H.R. 1268 Referred to Senate Committee after being Received from House).
The link does not list bill versions by order of date so you have to work it out from the bill history (click on any bill version, click on link to Bill Summary & Status, then click on All Congressional Actions) -- in this case, the bill started in the House (.RH), was modified, passed, and sent to the Senate (.RS), was modified, passed, and sent back to the House (there's an entry about the Senate ordering the measure printed as passed -- .PP?), who have again modified and passed it (.EH) and now it awaits Senate action (.RFS).
I'd give proper links, but any query on there that contains a 'temp' in the URL is, well, temporarily cached.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
-- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.
Given the current climate of illegals, they would apply for an ID/DL. Why? Because it is in their best interest to do so. Why is that?
1) DL and permanent address is enough in most states to register to vote.
2) DL provides ID, which makes it much easier to get the whole range of social services.
3) Since the documentation for such an ID is inherrantly less than what is required now, it makes it so much easier to get a false ID, or multiple IDs.
While I agree this RealID thing may be a PITA for us responsible citizens, it should at the very least make it difficult for people to get false papers.
If you're worried about this new identification, but you go to that site and fill in a bunch of personal information, you need to rethink your skepticism..
(I know, I know, the author of the site "[Promises] not to sell, rent, loan or give away your information to anyone, ever. ")
All across America, hundreds of liberals are thrashing in their mom's basement!
Mommy! I just got an email from John Kerry! He says there is a very important piece of legislation coming up, and that if we can defeat it, it will help hurt america!
So the keyboard kommandos click into action. Slashdot moderators are brought online. Vasoline and rubber gloves are readied for the upcoming masterbatory debates.
And the most crucial weapon, the stifling. They save their karma up for days like these...
I don't have mod points, I'm not in the liberal elite cadre of Slashdot moderators.
But I do know a good BURN when I read one.
I'm sure your post will be quickly deleted!
No but it DOES affect their ability to get government services paid for by U.S. taxpayers.
And you think a national ID card system will save money? Put the crack pipe down now.
I would rather be FREE from paying taxes to support illegal aliens than be FREE from a National ID card.
Drivers licenses are state issued. They can give them to whomever they want and check for illegal immigrants if they want. A national ID system is implemented on the federal level, just moving more power from the hands of the states to the federal government, particularly the executive branch. Now don't I remember a few of our founding fathers saying something about how this was a bad thing?
So those people on the 9/11 flights should have shot the terrorists?
Yes they should have. They should also be allowed and encouraged to carry firearms on planes. Just FYI, stopping another 9/11 is easy as pie. The Israelis already perfected the system. You just design planes so that the cockpit and cabin both have exterior entrances and don't connect. Of course that would cost the airlines money so it won't happen. If you really think this will make you either safer or spend less of your tax dollars I think you are a damned fool.
I for one welcome our new department of homeland security overlords.
I'll gladly assist in tracking down those petition signers who hate freedom.
Actually, you're not. That's why the court system is broken up into many divisions, including the Civil Division, Criminal Division, Family Division, Probation Division, etc. The Civil Division handles civil affairs such as traffic fines, while the Criminal Division handles actual crimes.
I'll be letting congress know I support it. The security situation is real (look how easy it is to get into the US), as is the illegal immigration problem (which is totally out of control on the Southern border) neither of which this won't solve by itself, but is a step in the right direction.
Just like us on /. call ourselves 'Rebels against unfair intellectual property laws' but really we just like downloading bootleg Neil Diamond records.
World Changing - News for Humans, Stuff about our planet
http://zabasearch.com/ this pulled up everyone i knows info, this sucks.
I don't see where you find that pretense - slashdot hasn't ever been objective as far as I know, and it doesn't need to be. Guessing from the names you've listed but not motivated or described, you're trying to pin some other individuals' opinions on it. Frankly, as poorly written as the typical /. notice is, do you really think there's anything approaching that level of coordination?
Right, but he also pronounced Linux as the Lee-nucks Oh-perating See-stim
Non sequitur: Your facts are uncoordinated.
Sorry - it is still there. You need to look at the conference report. Go to thomas.loc.gov and search for HR 1268 and click on the link to the conference report (H Rept. 109-72).
Also - the waiver of any other law section everyone keeps quoting - applies to a fence being built near San Diego. It doesn't apply to the ID provisions.
The Confernece Report will be subject to an up or down vote in the Senate. Any attempt to amend the conference report will essentially kill the bill.
The interesting thing is what happens if a significant number of states choose not to comply (as allowed by the bill). Their citizens won't have valid IDs for a number of Federal transactions and will be seriously po'd by the inconvenience. Who will blink first Congress or the non-compliant states?
You have got to be joking me. This statue is indeed there to welcome the "huddled masses yearning to be free" but it is not there to welcome the 25 million illegal aliens that enter this country every year. Immigrants fleeing to this land of liberty is one thing, and everyone has an opportunity here. But you cannot claim that our attempts to keep those who refuse to register, refuse to become citizens, to learn our language, to become part of our culture, out of this country, is defying the fundamental liberties of this country.
Read the only personal Runyon page out there.
Point 1: Dead cops Right. Nevermind the research somebody would have to go through to find out who these people are, assuming that the undercover folks weren't hidden by some means. This isn't going to change the security of this. Point 2: Stolen identities Um. This is happening now. A national ID will not make this any easier (or harder). Point 3: Government Spying True, it makes it easier for the government to track people. So what? They're already tracking anybody they need to; this just makes it a little easier on them. Point 4: Papers, please. Too bad Mr. Unreal failed to mention that the democratic countries of Belgium, Germany, Greece, Italy, Poland and Spain all have national ID card systems in place. Again, so what if Big Brother has an easier job of tracking us? Point 5: Unsafe Roads. So, illegal immigrants, who are breaking the law by being here, will try to get a driver's license and risk exposure right now? That doesn't make sense. They will still get the same driver's training (or lack of it) that they got before. If they got forged driver's licenses before, guess what? They'll find forged national ID's now. This point is probably the silliest one of the lot. So, basically, other than some privacy concerns, the National ID Card idea is probably a good one. The privacy concerns are real except that anybody with a reasonable amount of paranoia and understanding of today's world doesn't expect a whole lot of privacy anyway.
--ShadowKatmandu
"It only takes one true believer to make a thing real..."
The Civil Division handles civil affairs such as traffic fines, while the Criminal Division handles actual crimes.
The only reason traffic tickets are classified as civil is so that defendents are denied their right to a trial with a jury of their peers. Probably because such juries would only convict a tiny fraction of such cases.
... is that all the news coverage has described this as a standardized driver's license.
Does this mean that states will soon be required to give driver's licenses to blind people?
Recall that one of the ringleaders of the attempted first World Trade Center bombing was blind.
Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
"So who suffers? The criminals and terrorists? Hell no- they'll just route around it. That leaves only one other class...the vast, vast majority of people who are neither terrorists nor criminals."
Who suffers?
Do you?
Do I?
So there's yet another unwanted database or three with my personal information in it. So what? If you have that much of a problem with it, why not go after some of the incredibly invasive databases, public and private that already exist? Last I heard there were hundreds of them.
Damn those sky miles! And let's not forget about Wal-Mart, who has a database system so all encompassing, the guys who manage it have named it Orwell.
Then there are the multitude of homeland security databases they've had commissioned over the last four years or so, which keep multiplying yet aren't organized well enough to pull up complex queries.
There is this tendency on Slashdot to go overboard with the conspiracy theories. It's fun... don't get me wrong, but with a government and private sector as completely and utterly inept as ours, I'll believe it when I see it.
Till then,
I'm not holding my breath.
This signature has Super Cow Powers
Whether I personally enjoy the situation is besides the point. Personally, I'd like to see our Armed Forces defending *OUR* borders instead of dying on some patch of sand over oil thousands of miles away, I'd like to see English language testing become required for work visas, and I'd like to see our social assistance programs reserved for citizens of the United States of America.
None of my opinions mean anything to the spirit or letter of the phrase quoted, which does NOT quibble, limit, nor make exceptions to the welcoming of new immigrants.
As to what I can *claim* - I can *claim* anything I care to - whether I'm mistaken, misguided, or simply trying to provoke some thought beyond the usual knee-JERK reactions, only further observation can define for certain.
Take the 90-Day Challenge! http://rwmurker.bodybyvi.com/
I'm not sure it would be any difficult at all. You can buy 'fake' papers for 1-2K ! This are 'fake' in that they aren't yours, but they belong to some other person (who usually has no clue :).
I'm an American, but raised in Mexico, so I know a few illegal immigrants. I know one person who carries a fake driver's license, and several who have a fake social security card. It's not that hard, and I seriously doubt it can be made much harder without serious inconvenience for everybody else.
Oh come on, You think you can stop the Right from implementing national ID? They need it so they can
sort out who is loyal and who goes to the re-education/
concentration camps. They'll get it through one way or
another, considering there is nothing in the Constitution
really preventing it... not like thats stopped them from
violating it before. Plus there is always the avenue of
stripping away your citizenship if you commit terrorist acts
or being tied to terrorists. Do remember that the definition
of terrorist acts has been significantly widened in recent
years.
Non sequitur: Your facts are uncoordinated.
A centralized identity database can't recover from corruption. Whether it's from a corrupt bueracrat who changes something intentionally or from an innocuous data error that inadvertantly enters incorrect data, a central database just propogates the errors out to everyone. A decentralized system like we have now (birth certificate, passport, drivers licence, social security card, etc) offer a number of ways that corruption can be detected and corrected. If my passport record shows a birthday different from my drivers license, the error will be noticed and flagged when the data is needed. Other data authorities (e.g. my birth certificate) can resolve the discrepency.
A centralized identity system can save money and can simplify establishing false CIA identities. But the temptaion of abuse (especially with voter ID cards) or the massive headaches from even unintended errors make this a grossly silly idea to try to spring, fully-formed from a bit of legislation snuck in via the backdoor as this one has been.
Nice generalization. Seriously though, there are people who do pratice what they preach here at /.
If you believe in privacy, and believe you have "nothing to hide" at the same time, you're a goddammed idiot
A passport isn't required, but you do need to have a government-issued photo ID, and your birth certificate instead. However, over the next three years these requirements will be tightened, and by the end of 2007, even travel to Canada will require a valid passport.
--
"I personal[ly] think Unix is "superior" because on LSD it tastes like Blue." -- jbarnett
Forgeing is for the amatures. The people you'd really want to watch for are those who BUY 'real' ID's off of some dishonest gov't grunt. I don't know, but I'd bet that the 9/11 terrorists did just that. Identification has lots of workarounds for those who really want it- watch 'Gattica' sometime.
The federal gov't shrank under Democratic control.
"Just like we had no obligation to the rest of the world in both world wars. we went in not because we were obligated, but because it was the right thing to do."
We entered WW I because the Germans sank the Lusitania. Even though they published a full page ad in American Newspapers warning people sailing to Britain that any ship carrying war goods was subject to sinking, (which the Lusitania was), when it was sunk with americans onboard we got sucked into the war.
We entered WW II because of Pearl Harbor.
Before BOTH incidents the majority of people here in the US were Isolationalist. Doing the "right" thing, had nothing to do with our entrance into either war.
"and if we were in iraq for the oil, we sure as hell wouldn't be paying opec's prices for it."
I'd suggest you read Wolfowitz's papers for the Project for a New American Century to understand why we invaded Iraq. Iraq not only has the 2nd largest oil reserves, but being centrally located in the middle east it is the perfect place to have permanent military bases.
Keep in mind this was written in the 1990's long before 9/11 and the whole preemptive strike/WMD
tale.
Service guarantees Citizenship! Questions Guarantee GITMO.... Amerika Uber Alles!
Calling them undocumented workers or another PC term is intellectually dishonest.
Yes, but calling them "illegals" is akin to calling Africian Americans "colored". Sure, their skin is a darker color than mine, so they are "colored". I wouldn't ever use the term, however. Similarly, "illegals" is descriptive, but both terms are at best impolite, and at worst outwardly racist.
And your statement is bullshit. The Republicans successfully fillibustered the nomination of Fortas in 1968. In addition, the Republicans have fillibustered judicial nominees before and since, but they were not successful, but not for a lack of trying. Senator Frist attempted to fillibuster a Clinton nominee in 1999, but was unsuccessful. Link about Fortas in 1968 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A451 49-2005Mar17.html
And yeah, it won't be hard to find me on the list. Guess I blew my cover there.
F. James Sensenbrenner (R-WI) wrote the Real ID act (HR.418). The bill into which it was dropped was the Making emergency supplemental appropriations act (HR.1268). *That's* the one which is coming up for a vote and the one you want to fight. Take out $82 Billion in unchecked military waste *and* the Real ID sub-bill all at once. Then, when that's gone, go back and fight HR.418, because it will come back again. Enter HR.418 or HR.1268.RFS at thomas.loc.gov for more info. (retain the periods)
DNA is a Turing machine. You, however, being dynamic and emergent, are not.
If they don't want to come in through the "golden door" instead of the "golden window", they can stay the hell out. Even when the statue was erected, immigrants had to come in through Ellis Island or another immigration center.
there has to be first steps towards achieving a goal...even if having a national ID isnt th eend all be all, it is a start and i also am someone who wants to know for sure who is sitting in the plane next to me, driving the haz mat truck through my town, and etc. i Think that illegal aliens/ undocument workers should be deport at the cost of their home country...it is unbelievable how many people try and succeed to get into the us illegally. the mexican govt gets upset at us for trying to harden our borders, i am not saying that noone should be allowed into the US, just that they should have to do it legally, and if they cant get in legally they should stay where they are. Why is it that people believe they have the "right" to live in the US. it is a privelge to be here even for those of us who were born here...we should empty our prisons on the edge of the us/mexico border see how they like it...anyway this is too long and noone is going to read it anyway
MATRIX.
And I don't mean The Matrix. If you have no idea what I'm talking about, you need to go learn some stuff before you post again.
Seriously.
DNA is a Turing machine. You, however, being dynamic and emergent, are not.
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The French thought it was a good idea in 1886 so it must be a good idea for the US in 2005. Let the whole world migrate here and suck up all the resources. Then we can be a poor province of China.
"Um... why would the US intervene when not in its interests? Yes, the US takes action when it wants to and doesn't when it doesn't want to. Are you confused by that?"
I'm not confused by that at all. However, if we are going to play by those rules then drop the hypocritical "freedom", or "humanitarian"
BS and tell the truth. We intervene when we think it will be advantageous to the Empire. I'd rather the government was honest about it. Of course it'd be a bit harder to sell to the American people that way.....
Service guarantees Citizenship! Questions Guarantee GITMO.... Amerika Uber Alles!
Similarly, "illegals" is descriptive, but both terms are at best impolite, and at worst outwardly racist.
That's why I use "wetbacks."
The french gave us a gift on our centennial, mostly in admiration of the principles our nation stood for at the time. Our nation still very much passes the "open gate" test: If the gate is left open, do more people immigrate or emigrate?
One could move to any of many other nations, live there for two decades or more, and not be a national/citizen. The United States of America is the only nation on earth where it doesn't matter where you're from, you can jump through the hoops and *become* an american.
As I said previously, my wishes are that those who wish to come do so legally. I guess I'm blind to how the illegals are hurting me in any significant way, and none of this is going to be solved by some National I.D. scheme.
Wish I could remember the comedian, had a bit about "Forget INS - you want these people found, let 'em keep a video out a day overdue."
National I.D. - the vast majority of law-abiding tax-paying citizens/sheep will sigh, pay, and comply, the criminal element will buy or scheme their ways around it, in the end, just another placebo, another encroachment on our 4th amendment rights, and it's not like your "elected" officials (I voted against 'em, they're not *mine*) will do anything outside of what the I.D. printing corporate con$tituent$ want anyway...
Take the 90-Day Challenge! http://rwmurker.bodybyvi.com/
For US expats living overseas that is.
Regardless of the privacy implications of the rest of this body of legislation, placing the issuance of drivers licenses under federal jurisdiction is a good thing and long overdue.
The process of changing your driver's license to a foreign one when living overseas is generally based on an agreement between the two issuing parties. In the case of the US, this can require a country to need 50+ seperate agreements (each state plus PR/Guam/etc.). Many countries simply choose not to bother and require US expats to go through the full procedure for a new license, which for instance in the case of Japan can cost thousands of dollars more for an american than a european.
There hasnt been a reason for ANY Immigration in over 80 years. The ONLY reason it occurred at all was to populate a sparcely populated country that was an agrarian nation at the time. Now 1.5% of the population provide food for all plus more.
We no longer need others "poor huddled masses" we can easily generate our own locally.
Politicians want more "multicultures" to segregate and create vicitms groups to cater to to get votes. As long as they can keep them hyphenated the politicians win. Once the hyphenate goes, so goes the votes from the current popular victim group.
Real ID: You Can Still Fight It
/. again.
When will the link be posted for those of us who want to support it?
Oh, I'm reading
(Score:-5, Conservative Wacko Troll)
President Bush must be pretty intellectually dishonest, then.
We recently had heard in the office over one of the Yellow Machine that's made by Anthology Solutions.
I'll cross the border without a passport into Canada, try to get back, the US will kick me out, and then Canada will have to take me. Thank you bloody Yanks, you've written my ticket out of here.
I used the right link to contact my senator, and already got a response:
Thank you for contacting me to share your perspective on the
REAL ID Act of 2005 (H.R. 418). I appreciate hearing from you
about this important issue.
As you know, on January 26, 2005, Congressman Jim
Sensenbrenner introduced the REAL ID Act. The REAL ID Act
passed the U.S. House of Representatives on February 10, 2005.
Many, though not all, of the provisions included in the bill were
considered during the House debate of the Intelligence Reform and
Terrorism Prevention Act (P.L. 108-458), sometimes referred to as
the 9/11 bill, in December 2004. While companion legislation has
not been introduced in the Senate, please be assured that I will
keep your views in mind should I have the opportunity to consider
this or similar legislation.
As the REAL ID Act is a complex piece of legislation, it may
interest you to learn more about three of its key provisions. First,
REAL ID would preempt state and local laws regarding the
issuance of driver's licenses and personal identification cards.
Instead, the bill establishes minimum issuance standards for
federal recognition of state driver's licenses or personal
identification cards.
Prior to issuing the identification card, the state and issuing agency
(for example, the local Department of Motor Vehicles) must verify
the validity of an individual's: photo identification document, or
non-photo document that includes both the individual's full legal
name and date of birth; date of birth; name and most current local
address; and Social Security number or ineligibility for a Social
Security number.
In short, the REAL ID Act repeals the ability for states to approve
issuing driver's licenses or personal identification cards to any
individual without legal documentation of his or her stay in the
United States.
Proponents of this provision maintain that establishing a uniform
driver's license and personal identification card system throughout
the United States will increase homeland security. Issuing
agencies would be required to confirm all identification
information, making it more difficult for people to use fraudulently
attain a state issued identification card. In addition, making it
effectively illegal for an undocumented immigrant to receive an
identification card makes it difficult for this category to obtain
employment, travel by air, enter many federal buildings, as well as
many other privileges reserved for individuals living legally in the
U.S.
However, opponents of this provision view driver's licenses as
serving a public safety interest. Studies, such as a January 2003
report conducted by the American Automobile Association (AAA)
Foundation for Traffic Safety, have consistently found that
unlicensed drivers are more likely to cause serious traffic accidents
that lead to injury, death, and property damage. Studies have also
shown that unlicensed drivers are more likely than licensed drivers
to be uninsured. Driver's licenses are also a prerequisite for
purchasing car insurance. States that have chosen to issue driver's
licenses to undocumented immigrants have found that the number
of uninsured drivers drops.
Furthermore, driver's licenses provide law enforcement with
information about who lives in a given community. The Interstate
Driver's License Compact is the most comprehensive database of
individuals in the United States, containing all of the information
included on a person's driver's license and their driving history. It
is important to note that an individual's criminal record has no
relation to that individual's driver's license, regardless of
citizenship status. Currently 46 states and the District of Columbia
take part in the Compact, meaning that, if necessary, law
enforcement officers can access the names, pictures, and
Meet new people, and kill them.
In our defense, our senator Russ Feingold was the only one to vote against the Patriot Act.
Okay, how about a smart-card enabled technology with the information inside encrypted, and with different levels of challenge/response.
Example: One thing ID is often used for is age verification. So have one class of machine/query that simply asks the card, "Is this person over 21?" Card says, "yes", and tells them NOTHING else.
The biggest issue with the having all of the information available electronically on a strip/rfid is that not everyone NEEDS your name, address, phone, age, SSN, DLN, sex, height, weight, etc..
Make it all available and unencrypted, however, and it's going to be too much to ask to stop anyone and eveyone who scans your card from saving EVERYTHING to their database.
And match that information up to the CC used for the transaction, and your buying history, and so on.
Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
If you do decide to write your senators, it is a good idea to write the letter properly if you want it to be effective. Amnesty Intl. has a some good guidelines: http://www.amnesty.org.au/helpingai/letters
And cops are never required to give their permanent addresses otherwise? Really, the vast majority of judges and police officers live completely public lives, and I don't think that's killing them all off. My neighbor was a judge, he didn't seem to be particularly afraid of being known.
And this doesn't happen already? Everyone already knows about the deal with supermarket club cards; this seems little different.
Any state now is probably willing to share data about its citizens to other government entities. Linking databases would smoothen the process, but the pandora's box has been open for some time.
Yet another "attack the idea's associations instead of the idea itself." Whether other countries had\have a national ID is irrelevant. And obviously a plastic card won't stop a terrorist. RFID would ease citizen tracking, but would be easily foiled. "Tracking" is vague-- do they mean red dots on a green map, hollywood action style, or just personal data cross-referencing? The former seems virtually impossible with current RFID technology, the latter is already widespread through private data farming companies and many websites that use common cookies.
You could just as easily say that barring illegal immigrants from DL's will prevent them from driving at all, rather than driving illegally. And since when does offering them licenses guarantee that they'll go through driver's ed and get it? Hmm, they're illegal immigrants who probably want to keep under the radar as well as they can. They probably avoid the DMV as it is, and go on driving without licenses. I've had my license for 4 years now
* Your social can get stolen and your credit ruined. ..so long and thanks for all the fish
* Your Liscense can get stolen and the mailbox across the street from your house is usually your home address.
* If you're in the military you have a cac card already.
* If you are so upset just build a tent and live on the beach fishing and growing your food.
but you won't because you'll never give up your Mickey D's..
Comment removed based on user account deletion
How are we going to secure our borders without a national ID system? A nation without the power to control its own borders isn't really nation.
It's just a hunk of land.
Right.
So if you were going to secure your house, I suppose you would require name tags instead of installing a real security system. That's the logic going on here.
Slow down and take a deep breath. Catch up on your meds if you need to, ok AC?
Anyone who wants cops to check people's IDs at random is not making liberty a priority. They might value other things more, and we can argue about those priorities, but it's inarguable that someone who wants armed and uniformed agents of the state to go around checking citizen's papers at random does not place a high value on personal liberty. It is simply inarguable that the parent poster does not have a great love for liberty.
The fact that some people take this position makes me sad. That's a subjective truth, also inarguable.
It's exactly because I know I don't have all the answers that I support liberty, that I want everyone to be able to go to hell in their own special way and not be forced to follow my path. It's those who are convinced that they are 100% right that are willing to use force to create conformity to their ideas.
So, while I believe fully in your right to post such drivel, I also hold with my right to respond: bite me, AC. :-)
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
Comment removed based on user account deletion
We'll bury you without firing a shot!
Just watch until it gets out of hand. It already is by any anti-authoritarian standard and I can't believe its getting further. Wait, yes I can. The state is just as much of a terrorist as anyone else. But, unlike anyone else who breaks into your house and demands money from you with the threat of violence, the government has a GREAT card to play - PATRIOTISM! Ain't it grand when people lose their critical thinking ability because someone else tells them that they're not being 'patriotic' enough? I think we have a few examples of this: China, Germany, Russia, Argentina, and the list goes on. So go ahead, support our 'demo(n)cracy' and say praises for a national ID! After all, we're killing terrorism right?
If this gets too much further, it might not be a bad idea to say 'fuck the USA' and leave for somewhere that has less economic and social terrorism by the state.
Sounds like your country sucks if you are judged by one government official without a choice of telling your side of the story to your peers. I feel sorry for you.
Sweden and Switzerland are not the same country.
This is true, at this time, but one of the problems with this Act is that it gives the Fed.gov carte blanche to raise the minimum standard without limit and provides no funding to the states to come into compliance.
Gee, let's examine your brilliant comment here:
If you're an "illegal alien," you are probably working in this country. That's what most of the fuss is around them. They're "Not Authorized To Work In The United States," the little checkbox on any job application. So right off, they're paying payroll taxes, including federal income tax, and social security and medicare tax--which they'll never be able to collect on with their fake SSN's, and they won't be able to file a tax return to get part of that money back. Then they go out and buy things (like $800 apiece rims) and pay 7-10% sales tax on them. Ditto for all the tons of taxes on cars, on gas, on cigarettes, on phone service...
So who are you trying to kid that these people aren't contributing their fair share?? Yeah, their kids are going to school. So are every trailerpark welfare mother's kids in Podunk, Oklahoma. I don't see anyone trying to deport them. Everyone's paying taxes. You can be sure of that. (Oh, except the rich...They always manage to avoid paying their fair share by keeping a team of lawyers researching loopholes, and offshore accounts in the Caymans.)
And if you want to draw a correlation between illegal immigrants and increased lawbreaking, I dare you to show a statistic that shows that they are any more likely to commit crimes than US-born citizens with white skin, of equal economic status.
modded troll because he makes an excellent point? wtf is that about.
One question: Why do they have your religion posted on the realID cards?
Slashdot, I'm very thankful for this article. I will not contact my representatives,
and voice my support for the national ID card.
I'm willing to give up a little privacy in exchange for catching illegal immigrants, and keeping terrorists from getting drivers licences.
Do any of you realize that the federal government ALREADY has lots of info on each of us? Social security, student loans, federal tax returns, etc. A national ID card is long overdue, and I consider it pathetic that it did not happen a long time ago. Instead, thousands of people had to die before the government got off it's ass.
Yes, I voted for Bush, but would of prefered John McCain.
yes, I'm a registered Republican, because Bush won the primary and since I was an independent at the time it was partly my fault.
yes, I think Bush is a great president.
I also believe Clinton should of taken down Saddam, and possibly even North Korea, because by now we could be dealing with the mullahs in Iran.
The USA is becoming exactly what it always hated; not unlike Russia was.
The paranoia, the bypass of individuality. Citizens being detained and searched all the time, innocous objects confiscated, now compulsory ID cards. All in the name of the freedom of the country. Sound familiar?
"Vhere are your papers, komrade?"
Give it 10 years, and the US will have at least one large guarded wall up on its border.
Ah... makes me laugh, cos it's not my country...
After composing your message, there is a checkbox option that says,
"Can we post your comment on our comments page? We will not post your personal details."
However, they DO post your name and city! I consider this to be part of my "personal details." Be careful, and don't check the checkbox allowing them to publish your comment.
I find it fitting that when viewing the comments pages for this article, I scrolled down to see this italicized quote staring me in the face:
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.
Outwardly racist?
Why do you assume that all illegals are of some specific race?
Hell yes, we ought to call a spade a spade. I guess I can get away with using the term spade, since I'm not in the USA, and AFAIK it has no negative connotations in Oz. Using the PC terms means that you *intend* the impolite/racist term, but think that you are better than that, whereas the reality is you aren't - you've just #defined the original.
I must admit, the US border controls at San Diego did remind me very very much of one thing: The border controls between East and West Germany.
The landmines were missing, but that's about all..
We deport our citizens
Just because they can't get their answers straight after a car crash and they might seem foreign. Great.
Anyone with a mental health problem isn't going to survive this, but I guess they're all in USA jails right now anyway.
And what about tourists and international business people. I already have the USA on my black list of places I do not want to go visit.
-- it must be true, it's on the internet.
I wouldn't dream of saying that they're more likely to commit other crimes, I just don't want them getting away with not paying taxes, and that includes every single tax that we have to pay. If they get out of even one tiny little social security deduction then I'm upset. They should have jump through the same hoops that us good citizens have to. This under the table crap IS more common when employing illegals, and that's not debatable.
Speak for yourself.
..means.
"Hammered" now equals Democratic Nominee for President?
--- I wish I could hear the soundtrack to my life. That way I'd know when to duck.
Yep. It still means the same thing. Kerry's comment was served up by the right as a prime example of his "flip-flopping". It was a bullshit accusation, of course (FactCheck has teh skinny), but it managed to "stick" and he took quite a bit of abuse for it. While it was a silly thing to say, it did highlight the fact that many in congress succombed to "peer" pressure by voting for an Iraq invasion without questioning the facts. Now, hopefully, we know better that sometimes discretion is the better part of valor.
I'm not tense. I'm just terribly, terribly, alert.
I see that you've misspelled "idiots", above.
Less pithily, though more charitably to jurors, I might venture to ask why you place such faith in the decision of "your peers" when they are required to make that decision based on lies told to them by "one government official".
You: Didn't do it.
The State: Yes he did. Kill 'im.
Jury: If only we'd seen the suppressed evidence of your innocence. Now you get to die.
Mind the Gap
It has since been passed. I have the dumbed down "Not to be used for ID purposes" card in my pocket.
Exactly so.
But the Real ID Act does not target only illegal aliens (which is IMHO justification enough for this bill to pass). Forcing a common standard across the USA for what is considered to be a primary form of identification (DL), this act also offers some relief from the explosion of identity theft that has occurred in this country.
Only a "politically correct" anarchist cannot find some correlation between the increase in identity theft and the increase in the number of illegal aliens that have entered this country. Nor the relationship between increased street gang activity (like MS-13) and the invasion of illegal aliens.
The mantra of "more cheaper labor" had been justification for slavery in the South 150 years ago, and today it is being used for "global competition". Historically, the jobs of migrant workers on farms and ranches was used as the rationale for using immigrant labor. Today's illegal alien may still be working on those farms, but they are also working as TSA screeners, hospital workers, construction workers, school teachers, and more. They are among the contract workers on US military installations (San Diego Naval Base, for one) and our nuclear power plants.
Employers that hire illegal aliens are getting a free ride from the rest of the USA's taxpayers. The public school systems, hospitals and medical centers, fire and police services, and the "social safety net" of government are all being strained by the influx of illegal aliens, most of whom either do not pay taxes, or their taxes are "misappropriated" by those same employers. These employers are breaking the law themselves, but there seems to be very little political "will" to enforce prosecution.
I am all for a regulated flow of legal migration into the USA, but the invasion of illegal aliens has to be stopped. I call it an invasion because there is no way that the government can know just how many of the illegal aliens that cross our borders are (1) agents of a foreign military power, (2) terrorists, (3) violent criminals, or (4) carrying communicable diseases. Meanwhile, legal immigrants may wait for many years for the opportunity to become USA citizens. They are being penalized for the invasion of illegal aliens that has not been discouraged (and even encouraged) by our politicians -- that goes all the way up to the President of the USA. Dubya has a plan for the "crisis" in Social Security reform that includes SS pensions for illegal aliens -- it's called the "Realization Plan". It's real (Google for it), and it will bankrupt the USA's "social safety net". Just like the unfunded mandate of "No Child Left Behind", and the GOP-imposed "Medicare Prescription Plan" (which I like to call the "Drug Company Welfare Act".)
The Real ID Act, by imposing a uniform standard for drivers licenses, will help to expose just how serious the illegal alien situation is in the USA. The first step in fixing a problem is knowing just how bad that problem is. A side benefit will be that it will be just that much more difficult for the criminal acts of identity theft.
Umm, you do realize that the vote was for additional funding after the invasion don't you?
It had nothing to do with voting for the invasion in the first place. If we want to go into that then you can try to explain why Mr. "World Test" Kerry voted against Gulf War I which had full UN backing and a historic coalition (which he later mentioned as "the proper way to go to war") while voting for Gulf War II then voting against the funding needed to continue operations.
And for all those interested today marks the 100 day anniversary of Mr. Kerry's promise to fill out Form 180. We still wait breathlessly.
--- I wish I could hear the soundtrack to my life. That way I'd know when to duck.
Driver's licenses are issued by the states to anyone they want.
Citizenship is defined by the feds to anyone they want.
And, to round it out, library cards are issued by the county, at least in my state.
The state government can, and indeed often does, make issuing DLs dependent on citizenship. Likewise, the federal government could make citizenship dependant on possession of a library card. (Okay, it can't, due to the constitution defining it. But in theory.)
You have a priviledge to drive if you have a driver's license in that state, or in a state that your state recognizes. (Which is every state.)
If a condition of that license is 'the holder is a US citizen', then, yes, you're not legal if you're not a legal driver.
If it doesn't, however, and they give you one, you are.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
I didn't see this aspect discussed here (doesn't mean it wasn't, I haven't read all 979 comments), but thought it pertinent:6 .html
"Does the Real ID act contain a Constitution-busting Trojan horse?"
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20050509-488
Tag lost or not installed.
When did I move to the Soviet Union, where they required internal passports? Or was it Corporate Land I moved to?
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants"
Falcon"That government is best that governs least."
"I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country."
Thomas Jefferson
Should there be a Law?
I wouldn't dream of saying that they're more likely to commit other crimes, I just don't want them getting away with not paying taxes, and that includes every single tax that we have to pay. If they get out of even one tiny little social security deduction then I'm upset. They should have jump through the same hoops that us good citizens have to.
Unless as you say they're being paid under the table they are paying taxes, only when it comes tyme to collect social security they can't. So in one sense they prop up a system that will soon go bankrupt, and would sooner if they didn't pay into it. Now as far as being under the table, the underground economy hurts taxpayers by forcing them to pay more. However if all the agencies, departments, and offices the federal government has that aren't specifically authorized were abolished income taxes wouldn't need to be so high thus being a cause of the underground economy.
FalconShould there be a Law?
What American Indsian tribe gave them their papers?
FalconShould there be a Law?
Question 1: Was the $87 billion needed or not?
Question 2: Was the funding/tax cut issue crucial?
Why would this money be acceptable one way and not the other? Would the proposed tax cut rescindment have actually paid for the funding in question?
The "inadequate armor" complaint is meaningless. The issue in that case was not funding but sheer logistics. The military cutbacks had meant that companies simply weren't making this stuff anymore and the amount of time it would take to spin these companies back up, procure the raw materials, manufacture the items, ship, and install was prohibitive. Maybe Red Warrior could provide some more insight on this issue.
You don't have to wait for the Iraqi's with open arms. If you just go back a little while in your memory (I realize this may be difficult) but the multiple-million Iraqi's with stained fingers would certainly seem to be a good cause. You could also look at the disarmed Libya and the lack of Syrian troops in Lebanon as well.
--- I wish I could hear the soundtrack to my life. That way I'd know when to duck.
But the Real ID Act does not target only illegal aliens (which is IMHO justification enough for this bill to pass). Forcing a common standard across the USA for what is considered to be a primary form of identification (DL), this act also offers some relief from the explosion of identity theft that has occurred in this country.
Do you really think a national id will reduce id theft? If anything it'll make it easier.
2. Stolen Identities.
Our new IDs will have to make their data available through a "common machine-readable technology". That will make it easy for anybody in private industry to snap up the data on these IDs. Bars swiping licenses to collect personal data on customers will be just the tip of the iceberg as every convenience store learns to grab that data and sell it to Big Data for a nickel. It won't matter whether the states and federal government protect the data - it will be harvested by the private sector, which will keep it in a parallel database not subject even to the limited privacy rules in effect for the government.
radio-frequency identification (RFID)
...
RFID has several limitations, security experts point out. With some basic equipment, almost anyone can surreptitiously read all the ID Cards in an area, or track an individual as he or she moves throughout the day. The technology makes downloading someone's personal data easy. "Once you have a machine-readable ID, it will be read by machines," said Mr. Schneier. And some of those machines will belong to people you don't want to read your data....
Employers that hire illegal aliens are getting a free ride from the rest of the USA's taxpayers. The public school systems, hospitals and medical centers, fire and police services, and the "social safety net" of government are all being strained by the influx of illegal aliens, most of whom either do not pay taxes, or their taxes are "misappropriated" by those same employers.
Unless they work under the table how is it they aren't paying taxes? They still pay income taxes and social security taxes even though they maybe won't collect social security later, they pay sales taxes and they either pay property taxes themselves if they own property or they pay rent and the rental owner not only pays property taxes but they also pay income taxes on the rent unless it's under the table.
FalconShould there be a Law?
Here's the latest:
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050
Funny how there's no mention of RealID anywhere. Is society really becoming nothing but a flock of sheep being led to somewhat imminent slaughter? I wonder if our elected Congressional members got paid on the side/politically "prodded"/blackmailed/etc. Or was it that the bill was simply Iraq-related and they simply had to.
http://travel.state.gov/travel/tips/brochures/broc hures_1229.html
PASSPORTS: U.S. citizens who travel to a country where a valid U.S. passport is not required will need documentary evidence of their U.S. citizenship and identity. Proof of U.S. citizenship includes an expired U.S. passport, a certified (original) birth certificate, Certificate of Naturalization, Certificate of Citizenship, or Report of Birth Abroad of a Citizen of the United States. To prove identity, a valid driver's license or government identification card are acceptable provided they identify you by physical description or photograph. However, for travel overseas and to facilitate reentry into the U.S., a valid U.S. passport is the best documentation available and unquestionably proves your U.S. citizenship.
If Peak Oil is fake why not boycott gasoline? Oh, and boycott all other forms of transport except ox carts, horses, bikes, etc. Oh and all food except the stuff grown locally and transported by animals or humans-powered equipment. Also electric power since coal is hauled from South America to the US on diesel powered ships before crushing it and burning it for electricity. Don't forget to boycott plastics, resins, paints, etc.
That'll teach them!
You obviously have no clue what illegals do for a living. They are the guys mowing your lawn, trimming your hedge, serving your food at that restaurant or maybe working at the local carwash. Regardless, they almost always work hard, work long hours and work for cash paid daily under the table. No annoying forms for the employer or employee and our Uncle Sam can claim to be all the wiser.
Well, if they use RFID tags, I guess its time to start selling lead or tinfoil lined wallets, so people can scan you anywhere you go.
I don't know everything.
Notice there it says the golden door, not the back window. Legal immigration is perfectly fine. Illegal entry is not.
/me resists urge to correct grandparent's use of the phrase 'begs the question'...
But also, I'm reminded of an argument I waged and lost with my wife and some friends about the whole English-language thing. It was my position that if somone comes to a given country they should learn to speak the local language. But if you follow that logic everyone in the US should be speaking Cherokee or whatever. The European immigrants imposed their language on the country by sheer numbers. Who are we to say some other ethnic group can't do the same? If you look, you'll notice there isn't a law that places English as our national language. I would like such a law but there isn't one.
The problem is that the employer has to send the tax money up to the federal government. Since the employer typically knows these people are illegal and therefor have no recourse or ability to collect their government services, the company will keep the money as profit. So in effect they're not paying their fair share (although it isn't their fault).
Nope. They aren't paying taxes. Well, the workers are paying taxes but the money never makes it to the government. The problem is that the employer has to send the tax money up to the federal government. Since the employer typically knows these people are illegal and therefor have no recourse or ability to collect their government services, the company will keep the money as profit. So in effect they're not paying their fair share (although it isn't their fault).
It is true that most illegals in this country are hispanic- but we have Dominican, Cuban, and white European illegals here as well.
Colored- well yes- that is certainly impolite and outwardly racist. Can't compare the two words.
...awaiting the truth in Germany and Japan?
Go over and look at Bosnia and Serbia lately?
I guess South Korea is an unmitigated disaster too.
You need to open your eyes.
--- I wish I could hear the soundtrack to my life. That way I'd know when to duck.
Give me your hungry, your tired your poor I'll piss on 'em
That's what the statue of bigotry says
Your poor huddled masses, let's club 'em to death
And get it over with and just dump 'em on the boulevard.
-Lou Reed
I'd say the Lusitania was the pretext that started the ball rolling.
Not that our government was neutral, but the people decidedly were. I think the germans realized our government was trying to pull us into the war, hence the zimmerman telegram.
Service guarantees Citizenship! Questions Guarantee GITMO.... Amerika Uber Alles!
American citizens will soon be required to bear a passport to re-enter the country by 2007, regardless of where they're coming in from. Vide: Travel Document Requirements FAQ from regulations passed earlier this year. Yes, they can't keep US citizens out of the US by law. But they're now saying, 'A US Passport is the only document we're going to accept as proof of your citizenship in the US.' Don't have a US Passport, you're SOL.
In other news, Microsoft Windows users are now covered under the Americans with Disabilties Act...
Nope. They aren't paying taxes. Well, the workers are paying taxes but the money never makes it to the government. The problem is that the employer has to send the tax money up to the federal government. Since the employer typically knows these people are illegal and therefor have no recourse or ability to collect their government services, the company will keep the money as profit. So in effect they're not paying their fair share (although it isn't their fault).
As a reponse to my post this is off the mark as my post was about a national id and id theft, but I'll byte anyway. As I previously said, while many illegal immigrants may not pay income taxes, they still pay sales taxes and the rent they pay to whomever they rent from pays the owner's property tax. The owner may also pay income tax on the rent collected, that is unless it's under the table or part of the underground economy. If so the reason why it's underground is mostly because income taxes drive it underground. If the feds were to stay within constitutional limits then taxes wouldn't need to be nearly as high as they are thus people wouldn't feel the need to join the underground economy.
FalconShould there be a Law?
It took many more years to have a democratically elected government in Germany and Japan.
The Bosnia Serbia region is a complete mess thanks to the UN.
--- I wish I could hear the soundtrack to my life. That way I'd know when to duck.
riiiiiiight. I bet you're real popular on dates, when you're in the fancy restaurant, and the woman you're with says "I need to visit the ladies' room", and you reply, "Oh call a spade a spade. You're off to drop a shit, maybe fart some while you do it, or maybe change out a bloody tampon, or maybe pick your nose. Just say so. We'd all feel a lot better if you did."
>:)
What right to post comments? Where does it say that subscribers have the right to post comments?
Uniform Driver's License Standards vs. The Mark of the Beast
The Social Security card was never meant to be used for identification purposes. When the system was created in 1935, to assuage the concerns of American citizens, Congress insisted that the card would never and should never be used for purposes of identification. Its sole purpose was to ensure that workers were paying the required payroll tax. Individual workers were assigned numbers so that the proper governing authority could easily account for the contributions made to the Social Security fund. Nonetheless, the use of the number grew steadily over the years. Starting in 1961, the Civil Service Commission began using the number to identify all federal employees. In 1962, the IRS started requiring the number to appear on all completed tax returns.
This document explores the ways the SSN does not qualify as a violation of the warning of Revelation Chapter 13 concerning the mark of the beast. And why there is a new system coming soon that will come far too close. And given the drifting useage of the SSN, this new system is guaranteed, by design, to be in full violation of the warning, once the technology takes its logical course.
This new system of nationally uniform drivers license standards are standards written by the federal government that change licensing entirely. In fact it's a nice bit of newspeak to call it anything BUT a National ID card. It makes this turkey an easier sell. I, however, will call it what it is.
Since 9-11, many countries are working on National ID cards, including the United States. The plan is actually harder sell in liberal Europe than the US because Europe still has memories of how Nazi Germany used travel documentation in WWII as a means of control.
Tony Blair has opted for a voluntary cards. "However, it will be virtually impossible for anyone to live a normal life without the new ID card in England - possession of a valid card will be necessary for boarding an aircraft, buying gas, opening a bank account, starting a job or claiming government benefits." So much for "voluntary", unless you don't need to go anywhere. Like out of Germany in the late 1930's.
In the US, the voices against the National ID plan are almost exclusively pro-immigration groups. Seeing the majority of the population, including the church, relatively unsympathetic towards immigrants, and often downright hostile, is unfortunate. Especially considering the balance of the church's time is spent preaching, in a sense, what comes around, goes around. It reminds me of the poetic account of the rise of Nazi Germany.
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I did not speak out
because I was not a communist.
When they came for the social democrats,
I did not speak out
because I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists
I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews
I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew;
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
-Martin Niemöller (1892-1984)
To think that these IDs are someone else's problem is a falsehood in the first place. Such an ID card, if put into place, will be a gift to identity thieves, who will now be able to get all the information they need from multiple sources as seemingly innocuous as your video rental store. State DMVs have alrea