Slashdot Mirror

Based on what reports?

How about the third result in a google search for "indian book piracy". And while we're at it, how about you learn to use the internet?

You've made a number of provocative statements, but I will limit myself to responding to your attemped refutation of my central point.

>The Muslim population of India is growing much faster than that of Pakistan.

Where's the evidence to support your claim? Consider:

1. Firstly, calculate the growth rate of the Muslim population of India, using the last two Indian censuses, excluding J&K state, which was not enumerated in the 1991 census. The decadal growth was 29.3%, which works out to an annual rate of (1.293^0.1 - 1) = 2.6%.

2. The growth rate of the Pakistani population based on the last two censuses was 2.69%.

Which population is currently growing faster? We don't know, but it is unlikely that one is growing "much faster" than the other. An article in the leading Indian newspaper, The Hindu, notes that "the growth rate is decelerating, much faster for Muslims (by 3.6 percentage points since 1981-91) than for Hindus (2.8 percentage points)." http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl2120/stories/20041008004702000.htm

>Look your Analysis fails. Here's why. You took the percentages from an old census while the numbers are current.

You raise a valid point, but it doesn't invalidate my analysis.

1. The percentages are from the most recent general census, the 2001 Census of India.

2. The 2001 Census of India puts the 2001 Indian Muslim population at 138,188,240.

3. The growth rate of the Muslim population has very probably fallen (see The Hindu article referenced above), but lets assume for arguments sake that it is still 2.6%. Lets take that as the upper limit.

4. Then the upper limit for the current Muslim population of India is 138,188,240 * (1.026^(2008-2001)) = ~165 million. Which is still less than the Muslim population of Pakistan.

It should also be noted that India's census includes the population of the disputed territory of Kashmir, while Pakistan's census does not include it. Subtracting that population would reduce the Indian Muslim count by ~6.8 million.

*groan* so now Nuclear shills are AC's, how pathetic. Did you post as A.C so you could mod your own post as Interesting, how very creative of you.

Resorting to baseless accusations and the ad hom fallacy is hardly conducive to the discussion.

actinides are highly radioactive with half lives of around 600 years.

The actinides produced are either fissionable or can be bred into fissionable elements, and then used as fuel. They aren't "waste."

first of all while our current level of material sciences and technology cannot produce a safe nuclear reactor, perhaps one day we can (or use it in space craft) which is why I said "long term isotope storage". Plutonium, whilst deadly is also extremely valuable.

You're missing the point. I bring up plutonium because people complain that constructing breeders will produce it, but I make the two points that breeders can be configured to produce non-weapons grade plutonium and that we already have weapons grade plutonium we have to dispose. Plutonium can be used as nuclear fuel and by eliminating it we reduce the proliferation risk, but only if we build suitable reactors.

No problem, don't mine uranium in the first place

Did you even read what I wrote? I said plutonium from decommissioned bombs. It has already been mined. It's weapons grade plutonium. You can't just bury it in a hole in the ground and hope nobody ever finds it. You can put it in a reactor and use it as fuel. If you don't want to do that then what do you propose to do with it?

And I'm more concerned with radioactive products created by exposure to plutonium finding their way into the water table.

Take a drive through New Jersey and look at the chemical plants sometime. They process toxic materials all day long on the industrial scale and yet I can still drink the water, because there are regulations in place to ensure containment. The regulations in place on the nuclear industry are even more stringent despite the fact that the toxicity of nuclear materials is no greater than less stringently regulated chemical toxins. You can also throw in the fact that "radioactive" and "dangerous" are not synonyms. A bag of coffee beans, a bottle of vegetable oil and a smoke detector are all radioactive but you'll hardly get cancer from having them around your house.

Show me a link to a proposed breeder reactor planned for construction for commercial power generation.

You mean like this?

Except the difference is that CO2 and other greenhouse gas production for nuclear is an ongoing consequence of making fissionable reactor fuel, whereas they are one time inputs for solar/wind/wave.

Nonsense logic. All construction has a finite lifetime after which it must be upgraded or replaced. Solar and wind have ongoing CO2 costs because plant and equipment must be replaced as it ages and fails. And you're still making the assumption that the energy used for processing has to come from fossil sources while, again, the entire point of this exercise is to replace them.

You expect me to believe that USEC phased out CFC 114 use when they have access to a valid military exemption under the authority of the DOE, and that the last available data in 1999 revealed that over 800000 pounds of CFC 114 was released into the atmosphere. Since subsequent data is not available AND prototype designs of the new centrifuge were only finalised in 2007 it's not to much of a stretch to conclude that CFC 114 is still very much in use in the enrichment facilities.

Now you're arguing against the implementation rather than the concept. You already know what the solution is: Revoke the exemption and retrofit any existing facilities so that they no longer use CFCs. It isn't that it can't be done, it's that it wasn't being done. Congratulations, you've successfully convinced

It's a Times of India article. Your most reliable source of news in India is the The Hindu. Don't let it's name throw you off - the paper is more reliable than the other English dailies in the country and prides itself on reporting news as close as it gets.

If that was their plan, it backfired since they proved India's IT infrastructure can withstand underwater cable damage.

A more likely economic target for these cuts, as another posted noted, would be the planned inauguration of the Iranian Oil Bourse within the next week.

Monsanto has a long history of using a combination of tactics, bribery, force and unethical means to get their products sold world wide.

This has apparently become a huge problem in developing countries like India where farmers are committing suicide in the thousands, because they are too poor to keep re-purchasing monsanto seeds every year - thanks to the terminator gene infested crops they do not germinate.

Contrary to what monsanto claims, the plants ability to resist pests and the use of pesticides has not declined.

In China, there have been huge uproars about how genetically modified Bt cotton, designed to control bollworm, is encouraging the spread of other types of insect pests. There has been a huge impact on the insect ecology, which is resulting in new problems for farmers.

http://www.organicconsumers.org/patent/chinacotton 060702.cfm

http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl2011/stories/200 30606005912300.htm

Don't forget, Monsanto was one of the companies who produced and supplied agent orange ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_Orange ) during the vietnam war, and they wouldn't blink before screwing half the world if it profited them.

A small clarification: In India sale of beef is banned in 13 states and three Union Territories, while its legal in the remaining 15 states and three Union Territories. Another heartbreaking fact for Holy-cow brand of joke crackers is that India is actually a majority non-vegetarian country as shown in this survey: http://www.hinduonnet.com/2006/08/14/stories/20060 81403771200.htm

When I said 'you' I meant 'you' as an LTTE symathizer. I don't care if your parents are Indian, Tamil, German or chimp.

I did, however, follow a time in the earlier eighties, that is long before said prime minister was assassinated, when the then Sri Lankan president saw it fit, to stand by when probably a thousand Tamils were slaughtered for being just that, Tamils.

Oh please. Far more Indians and Black South Africans have been slaughtered (by the British and the Apartheid regime), and yet they chose a dignified peaceful path to their emancipation.

Including assassinating an Indian prime minister (though India had tried to interfere, anxious an independent Tamil in Sri Lanka would stir unrest in Tamil Nadu).

I find the 'though India had tried to interfere' very interesting, especially when you say "I don't condone or deny any later atrocity". You are condoning it. Ironically, this assassination was a monumental strategic blunder: it turned Indian Tamils away from the LTTE and made LTTE a very bad smell indeed among Indians sympathetic to it. Indeed LTTE commanders have gone on the record saying it was a mistake (no thoughs or buts in that interview).

Canada's version of 9-11 was the Air India bombing which brought down a plane with 329 people aboard in 1985. The guy who built the bomb bought a radio to build the bomb with and the police caught him because he used his credit card for the transaction. So, the cops have been catching people by tracing credit cards for a long time.

http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl2005/stories/200 30314003510000.htm

Actually, the best way to not be caught is to not be a criminal and even that is not a 100% guarantee. Some Bulgarian nurses have been convicted of murder in Lybia because their patients got AIDS. It happens here too. Lots of people have been convicted of murder and later exonerated. OK, where's my tin hat ...

NASA seems to be interested in sending their payload on the mission. Also http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/thscrip/print.p l?file=2006051307181100.htm&date=2006/05/13/&prd=t h& Read current science article for scientific need and international collaboration (there seem to be countries other than US, Russia, and iRaq) on unmanned mission.

Most points on the debate (poverty, public (though not scientific) infrastructure) have all been beaten to death for the unmanned mission itself. Stop being cynical and think of something interesting.

Yours truly,
a fellow snake charmer.

NASA seems to be interested in sending their payload on the mission. Also http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/thscrip/print.p l?file=2006051307181100.htm&date=2006/05/13/&prd=t h& Read current science article for scientific need and international collaboration (there seem to be countries other than US, Russia, and iRaq) on unmanned mission.

Most points on the debate (poverty, public (though not scientific) infrastructure) have all been beaten to death for the unmanned mission itself. Stop being cynical and think of something interesting.

Yours truly,
a fellow snake charmer.

NASA seems to be interested in sending their payload on the mission. Also http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/thscrip/print.p l?file=2006051307181100.htm&date=2006/05/13/&prd=t h& Read current science article for scientific need and international collaboration (there seem to be countries other than US, Russia, and iRaq) on unmanned mission.

Most points on the debate (poverty, public (though not scientific) infrastructure) have all been beaten to death for the unmanned mission itself. Stop being cynical and think of something interesting.

Yours truly,
a fellow snake charmer.

Er, conversion to what? Islam? Muslims in India have a well-oiled Caste system already. Read about the Ashraf/Ajlaf divide The Qomiyat of Swat, Pakistan and Bengal and the jajmin/Kamin separation.

Among Muslims, the Ashraf are regarded as those descended from Arab stock and are mandated by Fatwas to be "superior" to those converted from Hinduism, called "Ajlaf". even among the Ajlaf we have the "Arzal" who are treated as untouchable. To quote a scholarly paper Arzals are those:

"with whom no other Muhammadan would associate, and who are forbidden to enter the mosque or to use the public burial ground"

http://www.indianexpress.com/story/12109.html

http://stateless.freehosting.net/Caste%20in%20Indi an%20Muslim%20Society.htm

Read this famous book by Ambedkar (I already spoke about him in a thread earlier), a Buddhist by the way, who exposes the entire Muslim Caste System in South Asia:

http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00amb edkar/ambedkar_partition/410.html

Also, read:

Aggarwal, Patrap. Caste and Social Stratification Among Muslims in India.
Social Stratification Among Muslims in India by Zarina Bhatty

and "Political theory in the Delhi Sultanate by Mohamed Habib" when the Muslim Castes of Ashraf/Ajlaf/Arzal was established by religious sancation through the Fatwa-i-Jahandari.

Convert to Christianity? Dalit Christians are the among the most persecuted people in India right now. Read about Bama Faustina, a Dalit Christian, who has exposed the atrocities committed on Dalit Christians by the Christian clergy

http://www.hinduonnet.com/2001/09/16/stories/13160 17m.htm

http://www.womenswriting.com/writerdetails.asp?wri terid=116

In the book "Sangati":
http://www.us.oup.com/us/catalog/general/subject/L iteratureEnglish/WorldLiterature/India/~~/dmlldz11 c2EmY2k9OTc4MDE5NTY3MDg4Mg==

Christian churches in India are largely controlled by upper caste Christian Priests and nuns. Low-caste Dalit Christians are discriminated against by the upper-caste Christians. The extent and practice of untouchability within the Indian Christian community have been researched. Chapels for Dalit Christians are often segregated from Christians of a higher caste. Other churches admit Dalit Christians, but keep separate pews for them. Dalit Christians are buried in separate cemeteries. In addition, Dalit boys are not allowed to be altar boys or lectors.In addition, there are various instances of economic discrimination where Dalit Christians are not allowed to own arable land by upper caste Christian clergy. In many Christian communities in India, bonded labor is still practiced. As a consequence of the discrimination, Dalit Christians tend to be very poor and undernourished. Dalit Christians are denied education by the Upper Caste Priests and nuns. Very few Dalit Christians are involved in administrative services, except for the few who reconverted back to Hinduism.

http://indianhope.free.fr/site_eng/article_5.php3

The only realistic religion to convert to would be Buddhism, which is no biggie because Buddhism originated in India only. However, the movement is being taken over by violent extremists and anti-Hindu bigots who have even gone so far as to side with Islamist terrorists in Kashmir who ethnically cleansed millions of Hindu

Just to add. Kerala already has a presence in the open source community:

C-DIT develops Malayalam Open Source Software

Keli, a free opentype font for Malayalam (under GNU GPL).

Malayalam Font released as 'free and open' software

Absolutely true. Indian govt banned only 17 websites. But the ISPs blocked the websites that are not in the list. Indian newspaper Hindu has posted the copy of govt order that is sent to ISP for blocking the websites.

Censorship in India is inconsistent and haphazard to say the least.

Local and Central governments will ban/reject a book/film on the pretext that it will be dangerous to religious sentiments or social harmony. An example is the James Laine's book - An Epic on Shivaji, books by Salman Rushdie, the Peter Seller's comedy 'The Party', and even the innocuous (though a bit silly) documentaries made by Louis Malle in the late 60's.

Most of the Anand Patwardhan documentaries were banned/not cleared and his battles with the Indian censor boards show the tolerance level for the overlords are very low. One of the documentaries (if my memory is correct 'Father, Son and Holy War') had footage of the chief minister of the state of Maharashtra and later the speaker of Lok Sabha (lower house of parliament) - Manohar Joshi - seen extolling Hindu women during a rally in a remote Maharashtrian town to give birth to more children to offset the rise in Muslim population (typical FUD by hardliners). If such utterances can be made at a political rally, I have no idea what banning the documentary will prove.

The same time, the most vulgar, sexist and reactionary Hindi (Bollywood for you), Tamil, Telugu, Bengali, Malayalam or other popular cinema pass the censors with absolutely no problem.

Also the Indian Government is yet to relax its hold on radio and licenses to operate a station - which actually reach the 100% of the Indian population (compared to 10-20% reach of the mostly urban satellite/cable.)

What used to be castes are now communities which tend to restrict marriages to between their own members.

The supposed advantages that the upper caste enjoyed are long gone.

Sociologists have argued that a person born in a highly educated upper-caste family will have a totally different universe of knowledge, social contacts and elite acceptability, and wholly different access to information about the availability of courses, colleges and private tuition, career options and professional advice."

Additionally, the private sector (non-government, privately owned industries) has always been a meritocracy. If you apply for a job, you aren't even asked your caste or religion. So a question of casteism does not arise.

Mmm. And what about representation? Take a look at this.

Bullshit!

I'm curious whether the book discusses the fact that the Internet, and computers in general, have all been developed almost exclusively at public expense for most of their lifetimes, and by all rights should remain in the public sector.

"As Andrew L Shapiro, a contributing editor of the Nation, wrote in July, 1995: ``You probably didn't notice, but the Internet was sold a few months ago. Well, sort of. The US Federal Government has been gradually transferring the backbone of the US portion of the global computer network to companies such as IBM and MCI as part of a larger plan to privatize cyberspace. But the crucial step was taken on April 30, 1995, when the National Science Foundation shut down its part of the Internet, which began in the 1970s as a Defence Department communications tool. That left the corporate giants in charge....'' ...

The telecommunication infrastructure was largely created at Government initiative for about 30 years, including both hardware and software, then handed over to private corporations in 1995. It is true that so-called `private' corporations (meaning, profit is privatized, though cost and risk are largely socialized) were often instrumental in R&D, but typically under Government contract. The basic ideas came from the public sector, as did the funding. That includes the Web, designed at CERN, but in the US the public contribution was overwhelming, as in the case of computers and electronics generally, in fact most of high tech. The system was run by the Pentagon, later the National Science Foundation (NSF). The real question should be the opposite: Why should private corporations be granted a huge gift by the public (which is unaware that it has done so)."

http://www.hinduonnet.com/businessline/2000/07/25/ stories/14253975.htm

Let's not forget that the Internet, and computers in general, have all been developed almost exclusively at public expense for most of their lifetimes, and by all rights should remain in the public sector.

"As Andrew L Shapiro, a contributing editor of the Nation, wrote in July, 1995: ``You probably didn't notice, but the Internet was sold a few months ago. Well, sort of. The US Federal Government has been gradually transferring the backbone of the US portion of the global computer network to companies such as IBM and MCI as part of a larger plan to privatize cyberspace. But the crucial step was taken on April 30, 1995, when the National Science Foundation shut down its part of the Internet, which began in the 1970s as a Defence Department communications tool. That left the corporate giants in charge....'' ...

The telecommunication infrastructure was largely created at Government initiative for about 30 years, including both hardware and software, then handed over to private corporations in 1995. It is true that so-called `private' corporations (meaning, profit is privatized, though cost and risk are largely socialized) were often instrumental in R&D, but typically under Government contract. The basic ideas came from the public sector, as did the funding. That includes the Web, designed at CERN, but in the US the public contribution was overwhelming, as in the case of computers and electronics generally, in fact most of high tech. The system was run by the Pentagon, later the National Science Foundation (NSF). The real question should be the opposite: Why should private corporations be granted a huge gift by the public (which is unaware that it has done so)."

http://www.hinduonnet.com/businessline/2000/07/25/ stories/14253975.htm

In China the very concept of civil society is still alien while it has emerged rapidly in Hong Kong, Taiwan and South Korea. India has a rapidly increasing middle class and is the world's biggest democracy.

You obviously have no idea of what a middle class is and what type of middle class already exists in China:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3732914.st m
http://www.china-embassy.org/eng/gyzg/t127568.htm

and is also stronger than that exists in India:

http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl2206/stories/200 50325003600400.htm

In general, the phrase "middle class" gets thrown around very recklessly. In countries like India, which apparently has 200+ million "middle class", the majority of the middle class families do not have an aggregate income of even US $15,000/year (Rs. 677k/year or Rs. 56.5k/month). This income level does not make them a "middle class" on a global scale. This is not to mention that prices of real estate and other commodities have been sky-rocketing in big Indian cities to offset the rising incomes significantly.

As for civil society, thats a very different ball game and counties like India with 700+ million people (out of 1.1 billion people) even beneath the pseudo middle class are nowhere near a civil society. If also takes human rights to be a civil society, not money alone (otherwise Saudi Arabia or Kuwait would be a civil society too) third world needs to address the large-scale violation of human rights (irrespective of the form of government) first.

Read up on where the Ruskies have been spending their defense dollars. Functional anti-ABM missiles is very possible.

Sunburn/moskit/Brahmos http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russi a/moskit.htm

The 3M82 "Mosquito" missiles have the fastest flying speed among all antiship missiles in today's world. It reaches Mach 3 at a high altitude and its maximum low-altitude speed is M2.2, triple the speed of the American Harpoon. The missile takes only 2 minutes to cover its full range and manufacturers state that 1-2 missiles could incapacitate a destroyer while 1-5 missiles could sink a 20000 ton merchantman. An extended range missile, 9M80E is now available.

http://www.sinodefence.com/missile/antiship/3m80.a spThe missile is armed with a conventional 300 kg penetrating warhead containing 150 kg of high explosive, or (in the Russian Navy) a 200 kiloton nuclear warhead. Even with a conventional warhead, 3M-80E missile is large enough so that one hit from a single missile could seriously damage or possibly even sink a U.S. Navy major surface combatant, a hit from one or possibly even a few conventionally-armed Moskit missiles might not be enough to halt flight operations on a U.S. Navy aircraft carrier because of the carrier's much larger size and its high degree of compartmentalization. A nuclear-armed 3M-80E Moskit, however, could easily destroy a U.S. Navy aircraft carrier (and any other nearby ships), even if the warhead detonates at some distance from the carrier.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/india /brahmos.htmIndia expects to significantly enhance its long-range strike abilities with the BrahMos cruise missile, jointly developed by New Delhi and Moscow. The supersonic missile -- which derives its name from the Brahmaputra and Moscow rivers in both countries - has a range of almost 300 km and is designed for use with land, sea and aerial platforms. The Indian Air Force (IAF) is reportedly considering the possibility of fitting the BrahMos on its Su-30 combat jets. The production will commence by end of 2003 for induction in the year 2004.

http://www.hinduonnet.com/2005/04/16/stories/20050 41602941400.htmBrahMos is essentially an anti-ship supersonic cruise missile that flies at a speed of 2.8 to 3 Mach (2.8 to three times the speed of sound). It can take out targets 290 km away.

http://www.brahmos.com/Brahmos web page SS-27 / Topol-M / RS-12M(1|2) http://www.missilethreat.com/missiles/ss-27_russia .htmlhe Russian SS-27, or Topol-M, is an intercontinental-range, ground-based, solid propellant ballistic missile. It represents the pinnacle of ballistic missile technology, incorporating modern fuel and warhead designs, as well as being capable of being launched from both missile silos and Transporter-Erector-Launcher (TEL) vehicles. Current Russian accounts stress that the SS-27 is invulnerable to any modern anti-ballistic missile (ABM) defenses. Yuriy Solomonov, director of the Moscow Institute of Heat Technology and designer-general of the Topol family of missiles, has stated that the SS-27 will be the foundation of the Russian strategic nuclear arsenal by 2015.

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/icbm/rt-2pmu. htmThe single-warhead RT-2UTTH Topol-M is an advanced version of the silo-based and mobile Topol intercontinental ballistic missile. The SS-25 Topol is generally similar to the American Minuteman-2, while the more sophisticated SS-27 Topol-M is comparabl

first... who the hell is "mikenew.com" and what the hell credientials does he have?
and who is the hell is Trudy Chen?

i hope you know the sources in which your stupid little article cites are all from US government related sites, and all the people that it cites are very conservative republicans who would like nothing better than the destruction of the UN.

you are easily fooled.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/06/18/un.reform/

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/congress/jan-june98 /dues_3-11a.html

http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/2001/05/12/stor ies/03120001.htm

http://www.cyberdyaryo.com/features/f2003_0106_05. htm

you are a damn idiot.

want to respond to everything else?

Before anyone questions the unimpeachable reputation of "The Hindu" - "Online Edition of India's National Newspaper", please keep in mind that they've brought significant news to us in the past.

How many of us would not be alive today had they not warned us about mysterious monkeymen?

N Rajeshwar Rao and N Venkatanathan claim to have predicted this earthquake, based on their planetary alignment model http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/holnus/00220041 2291719.htm http://216.132.172.10/indiadaily/editorial/12-28c- 04.asp

They're the same game. Looks like "snakes" was the original name - "chutes" dates from 1943, Britain imported "snakes" from India in the 1890s, and it looks like the (ancient) Indian version had snakes and ladders (although it was called "The ladder to salvation"). See here and here. Most countries seem to call it "snakes", lthough "chutes" makes more sense than "snakes" - who ever slid down a snake?

I didn't vote to illegally invade a nation that posed no immediate threat to us, while claiming they did. Bush did that, so yes, I do blame him. He turned USA policy on it's ear and now we're (or rather, he's) international criminals.

And I did not vote for Bush in the last election, and I'm not on the Supreme Court, so don't blame me for that, either.

India has an advanced Cruise missle already. Its called BrahMos. It's faster than the US cruise missle but its range is shorter. Nevertheless its range is sufficient for all its targets.

Related News

If UBL is indeed guilty of 911 as you all indeed claim then why when you look at his FBI most wanted poster does it fail to mention 911? There is absolutely zero evidence against the man that would stand up in a US court and that's why he will either die or get a military tribunal.

The Taliban made an offer to the US to extradite Usama to a third country if the US could provide ANY evidence of his involvement in 911 and the US point blank refused choosing instead to make the opposite claim in their media.

It is well documented that the military action against Afghanistan was planned and deployed prior to the attacks of 911.
Even India offered to assist the West in its future military plans against the taliban back in June, 2001.

The Hindu reported some statistics on India outsourcing giving a good perspective on how outsourcing to India givings savings in US. Read Outsourcing IT? These are the real numbers... to get insight into the economics behind outsourcing.

See here and here. This could get interesting. . .

Electronic voting done right in India

• Residential Schools
• The Taliban, Iran, and Saudi Arabia
• The Sudanese civil war
• Kashmir (both sides)
• The Raid on the Golden Temple at Amritsar
• Air India Flight 182
• Aum Shinrikyo
• "Honour Killings"
• The Inquisition
• Pedophile Priests
• the Church of Scientology, Applied Scholastics, NarcoNon, et al

So tell me now how Ethics comes from religion? Ethics does not mean blindly following your leaders. You must examine the issues for yourself. A secular ethics curriculum gives you the tools to do that. It does not require you to give up your faith.

all orbits decay

Even for low earth orbits, drag is significant only for the first few hundred km.

And even if the debris that's up there now will burn up in 30 years, what about all the junk that will accumulate in 30 years?

In case you think I'm making this stuff up, look here or here.

May be this quote will interest you:

"No actual space war even has to be fought," Primack said. "Any country that felt threatened by America's starting to place lasers or other weapons in space would only have to launch the equivalent of gravel to destroy the sophisticated weaponry."

You probably can't convince me that the move by Universal -- a unit of hard-luck French water utility Vivendi -- doesn't have anything to do with Universal's pending aquisition by GE's NBC unit.

I figure it's one of two things:

* Vivendi is looking to spoil the deal with a profit-killing "poison pill". This would be the strategy of former Vivendi chairman Jean-Marie Messier -- but it's also part of why he's the former chairman.

* GE has already given Universal marching orders -- this was planned months ago. According to this morning's NPR report, Vivendi has been shopping for a buyer for its entertainment units for months, but all previous deals have fallen through. They're likely to do whatever GE says at this point (unless we're back to the first option).

General Electric isn't in the business of filing baseless lawsuits -- they're in the business of making money. Maybe they'll be the ones to blow the lid off the CD price scam once and for all.

For all those who have been whining about the state of India's finances and poverty levels, let me add that the PM in his Independence Day speech (think State of the Union) is also building highways, creating jobs in rural areas, not to mention modernizing our ports and major airports.

May I also add that India's external finances are in great shape ( a $6.5tn deficit comes to mind, cough cough ) and we are at present reorganizing our expensive debt.

We are sitting on so much cash, (and soon, low interest debt) that for the first time, India has become a lender nation.

Inflation is static at just under 2%, the Indian rupee has been holding its ground against all international currencies. Duties are being lowered, tariffs and trade barriers are being slashed, capital and bond markets are flourishing -- why the hell can't we have a moon mission?

Agreed, poverty and health problems cannot be disregarded, but to say this money would be better spent anywhere else is just stupidity -- India has long prided herself on her space programme -- we have great comm satellites and have been launching them since the early '70s, and a moon probe is a logical next step.

Finally, the moon probe is just one proposal among many, and slashdot readers, or at least those posting derogatory comments, need to keep a sense of proportion.

For all those who have been whining about the state of India's finances and poverty levels, let me add that the PM in his Independence Day speech (think State of the Union) is also building highways, creating jobs in rural areas, not to mention modernizing our ports and major airports.

May I also add that India's external finances are in great shape ( a $6.5tn deficit comes to mind, cough cough ) and we are at present reorganizing our expensive debt.

We are sitting on so much cash, (and soon, low interest debt) that for the first time, India has become a lender nation.

Inflation is static at just under 2%, the Indian rupee has been holding its ground against all international currencies. Duties are being lowered, tariffs and trade barriers are being slashed, capital and bond markets are flourishing -- why the hell can't we have a moon mission?

Agreed, poverty and health problems cannot be disregarded, but to say this money would be better spent anywhere else is just stupidity -- India has long prided herself on her space programme -- we have great comm satellites and have been launching them since the early '70s, and a moon probe is a logical next step.

Finally, the moon probe is just one proposal among many, and slashdot readers, or at least those posting derogatory comments, need to keep a sense of proportion.

Google ("hiroshima birth defects") gives a fairly impressive list of results. This seems to give a relatively unbiased report, for example.

Also, Agent Orange itself did not cause the cancer and birth defects you're talking about, it was actually a dioxin contaminant from the manufacturing process.

Maybe you should do some research before you prove yourself an under-educated, ignorant asshole.

"Linux makes it so easy to create a supercomputer.""

BARC unveils Linux based 202 GFLOPS supercomputer

I'm happy that science is alive and well in this world. Viruses, fortunately, are very likely not alive out of this world. I'm not even sure where these authors get off even suggesting that viruses come from outer space. Reasons:

1. Viruses are delicate. Being in outer space, crashing to earth, and infecting someone. A difficult task by itself.

2. Viruses evolve jointly with hosts. All evidence suggests that viruses have a very close (evolving) relationship with their hosts.

3. There are perfectly good theories with lots of evidence that explain new virus infections. For example, SARS may have come from a little evolution by a virus in a cat-like species of civet. It didn't help that the viruses new host happened to be a delicacy.

4. There may be lots of evidence that life exists outside of our planet, but (like #2) viruses require evolution from a similar host. That suggest the virus would have to get into space from earth first. That makes it extremely unlikely (IMO) that a virus could go to space get back and reinfect the same (or similar) species of host without being damaged.

5. Finally, (AFAIK) A VIABLE VIRUS HAS NEVER BEEN FOUND/CULTURED ON A METEOR!!!!

This theory is a little like suggesting that crop circles come from aliens even after the people who admitted building the first ones have come forward. It is possible, but very, very unlikely. (Personally, I hope that the rest of cosmological theories are attached to better evidence than this)

-Sean

India hasn't been very supportive the war, but they haven't been as vehemently against it as France, Germany, or the Muslim world, so you might want to try checking out an Indian newspaper, such as The Times Of India , The Hindu, The Indian Express, The Statesman, or Rediff Online. These are amongst the world's most circulated English dailies (The Times of India is #1, the Hindu and the Statesman are in the top 10.), and with the exception of Rediff, have been around in print form for decades.

The way I like to look at things is that no one source will ever be the actual truth. "Actual truth" probably can't be written down anyways. I will be looking at sites that are at total opposites of the spectrum. Check out the following eclectic list:

Iran
India
Switzerland
Russia
Saudi Arabia

And Iraq and Iran are appointed to chair the UN disarmament panel. Oh wait....

-Sean

You are way misinformed. In 2000, there was a seven billion dollar trade deficit (in India's favor). Exports from the United states were $3.7 billion, while imports from India were $10.7 billion.

There is a lot people don't know about how Indian research programs are organized.

Indian Atomic Agency (BARC) uses its own supercomputers developed independently of PARAM. Their supercomputers are called "Anupam" and are designed specially for Nuclear research.


Here is a link.


Its very unlikely that this computer will be used to any nuclear research.

In an industry scrutinized by the government as a drug infested haven that pollutes our communities and destroys the ability to lead a productive life, there is another industry that has the potential to become even more dangerous than any drug addiction. I'm not supposed to be writing this. What was supposed to happen was I prove my thesis that I couldn't be sucked into a virtual reality like many people I have met before. I never really understood what I was getting myself into when I started my research experiment, playing a Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game.

Three years ago at a nightclub I bumped into an old friend of mine who went by the nickname "Iggy". I was really amazed to see him because no one had seen nor heard from Iggy in over a year. Many of his friends had all wondered what happened to him.

"Jesus Iggy, where in the hell have you been?!"

"Everquest," was all he said. He looked down at his feet when he said it.

"Huh?" I had no clue what he meant.

"I've been playing Everquest."

As we spoke, Iggy opened up to me and confessed that he had lost his job, his friends and didn't want to go out much anymore.

"It's an addiction. I'm only out tonight because the server is down for patching and I'm miserable."

For some reason, he couldn't look me in the eye while he was talking. He was obviously embarrassed.

"Um. Okay." I mean, what was I going to say to something as incredulous as that? I've heard of game obsessions, like those college kids in the seventies that murdered their whole family while playing a Dungeons and Dragons game, but I just thought that sort of obsession lies only in the minds of sociopaths or people with a lot bigger problems than playing a game. Iggy was a really nice, normal guy who had lost a lot to some online role-playing game called "Everquest". I had no idea what to make of it.

I never saw Iggy again. Neither has anyone else who knew him that I have asked. Since that night I really pondered the absurdity of his situation. It nagged at me.

On the web you can put the words "gaming addiction" into Google and discover a thousand and one sites for support groups, self help courses, testimonials and various studies. There's the "Everquest Widows" forum, a site called "Ariadne - Understanding MMORPG Addiction", and a myriad of articles on topics like game addiction and the innocent bystanders that suffer from it.

As one Everquest Widow puts it, "I plan on starting "Widows Weekly." It will be a group that meets in a local coffee shop. Here, spouses can talk and help one another through this difficult process, and begin to realize that there is a life out there despite the loss of our loved ones. I plan to send the bill for coffee and snacks to Verant. It would be but a small compensation on their part to repay me and others for the loss of our loved ones--so pay up, Verant!" -- Christine Gilbert CD Mag.com

What I find interesting is that many of the people who author these articles or sites have usually neither played the games or have just been the "victims" such as spouses or family. Others who dissect the topic of game addiction tend to be outsiders looking in, shaking their heads or turning the study into one giant mouse in the maze science experiment. It's rare that you find someone, who actually plays games passionately, speak up or write anything about negative side affects.

The more people I met who played computer games, the more I wanted to understand the obsession. I also had another stake in this because my partner, Low, is a gamer and a "geek" in every sense of the word. Not to mention my fiancé. It was beginning to cause some strain on us from time to time in terms of "quality time". I was getting really angry with him on a regular basis actually. According to Low, it was I who had the problem, not him. This is how most gamers think. Deal with their gaming or don't deal with it at all. They will play either way.

So I eventually decided to do some investigation and find out what makes these gamers and role players tick. What sort of recreation has the ability to absorb people to the extent that marriages break up, jobs are lost, and they lose friends? How does playing a game on a computer make someone lose functionality in the REAL world, because they want to spend too much time in some imaginary reality? For crying out loud, I thought, it's just a game.

I had a lot of questions but no one I talked to had answers. Gamers would tell me, "You won't understand unless you are a gamer yourself." Ok, no problem. I figured I could just play a game I find entertaining and get bored and write about what nut cases gamers really are.

It just wasn't that easy. This little experiment of mine turned out to be more dangerous than I ever imagined.

I wasn't able to begin playing a game right away. The opportunity just never really presented itself directly to me. There just wasn't a game I really liked enough to "get into it" for long enough. Low would play his Quake, Unreal Tournament, Black & White, Carmageddon, Fallout, Diablo II and a multitude of other first person shooters, but nothing seemed all that captivating to me and there was no way I could play these games with him due to his extreme level of skill and years of practice in a 3D environment.

I played a little Diablo and actually had a bit of fun with that, but I found I only really enjoyed it when I played with Low or our friends in multi-player mode. We would go "adventuring" together as they call it, fighting demons and wizards and monsters and coming out winning or dying, but having some fun just playing together. It was my first taste of actually playing with another player in a game as a team. But when Low moved onto the next game, bored with Diablo, I didn't have the same drive to play anymore. So I put my project aside and put up with his gaming as best as I could.

Massive Multiplayer Online Role-playing Games (MMORPG) have been around for many years. You can find thousands of websites, magazines, web-zines and the like that are devoted to the enormous market out there for online gaming. Sites like GameSpy, that literally receive millions of visits per day from gamers and industry types from all over the world, provide an almost infinite amount if information about these types of games. Hundreds of thousands of people play games like Everquest, Dark Age of Camelot, Asheron's Call, and Ultima Online each day from all over the world. With the upcoming launch of The Sims Online, analysts and game reviewers are expecting the largest online game community ever seen to develop.

"The Sims promises to be one of the most interesting human experiments in the history of the Net." -- David Kushner, Entertainment Weekly

Low had tried many of these MMORPG's. He never stuck with one very long because, as he puts it, "I got tired of being a crappy tree-elf that always fell out of the damn tree village." In Ultima Online, he "got tired of having all my stuff stolen from me and getting killed by stupid 'PKers' (Player Killers)." Apparently for him, the rewards were far and few between to keep him interested in these games. He also has a very short attention span with most games. Play it, beat it, and move on to the next game is his motto. The more games you play in a single year the more well rounded you are apparently. With the new enhanced graphics engines, hardware and development that goes into games these days, it's amazing how stimulating the market can be right now.

Early in 2001, however, Low's opinion of online gaming changed drastically. He read an article about a new online role-playing game that was set about 30,000 years into the future, on a colonized planet. The story line was science fiction themed, with monsters, mutants, futuristic weapons, wars, and sinister political plots. The player would have the ability to create a character avatar from a wide variety of attributes and be surrounded by very realistic 3D graphics, with incredible scenery and sound. You would have to defend yourself, form guilds, make friends and alliances and your goal would be to "learn" or level your character as the game progressed in order to increase your skills and possessions. There would be PVP (player versus player) combat, PVM combat (player verses mobile or "mob" for short, a term used to explain computer generated enemy or monster) and a variety of other things one could do while in the game online. You could fly a plane, morph into animals and go on dangerous missions and epic quests. The game was called Anarchy Online.

Something about this Anarchy Online game really had his attention and right after it came out in July of 2001, he bought his copy and began playing, and once again I lost him to a game. He could not stop going on and on about how "cool this or that was" or the graphics or all the people he was meeting. His excitement was just ridiculous in my eyes but I had been through this before. Nevertheless, the game also captured my interest because of its science fiction theme. I am a sci-fi buff and the storyline had such a great plot that they actually sell the novels online for it. I read the chapters as they were released and was hooked on the storyline.

Low bought another copy about two weeks later. "I want you to play with me." By this time we were under some strain because he was really absorbed by this game every night. It looked really intimidating to me and I opted not to play it right away, stalling for time. The 3D environment bothered me because any game I had ever played, like Diablo, for example, had always been in third person view, which is a bird's eye view of the environment. The 3D graphics were dizzying as I looked over his shoulder from time to time.

In the end I caved in under the pressure and began playing it in September of 2001. I was a horrible player in the beginning, running into walls and getting lost or killed all the time. It didn't matter to me. I was playing a game with my boyfriend and found with each day that went by, I wanted to log on and play more and more.

So what was the appeal? Before I realized what was happening, I became addicted to playing this game. While logged into this game I met wonderful people, via their avatars, laughed to funny antics via chat window discussions, and experienced a futuristic sci-fi world via incredibly realistic 3D graphics and sounds. We ran through swamps with mutant wolves chasing us, the sound of our feet making wet suction sounds just like you would have in reality. We could hear birds chirping in forests we scouted and vultures crying overhead as they spotted us and attacked.

Our adrenaline would pump as we fought for our lives against twenty-foot tall robots with buzz saws for hands, or as we went on safaris to hunt giant brontosaur-like animals. We had the ability to heal and save each other as well as other members of our team at the time. We also had the ability to gain the respect, over more than a year later, of many online players, for being a great couple of characters in this game. We have, in fact, become high-ranking officers in our guild, which is almost like a family or alliance with other people to help you in the game.

In South Korea, some in-game alliances are valued more than real life friendships. A game called Lineage: The Blood Pledge has captivated approximately a third of the population. In Lineage, characters can take on the role of Princes, Wizards, and Knights and vow their loyalty to their clan or guild. This loyalty had lead to an incident in 2001 where a player was nearly beaten to death in real life for virtually killing the character of another player.

"He boasted that he had offed the gangman's virtual character just for the fun of it. Bad idea. The roughnecks dragged the 21-year-old into the urinal and pummeled him until he was covered with real-world bruises." -- By Michelle Levander, Time Magazine

It is easy to lose yourself to your imagination while you become someone you could possibly never be in the real world. You can become a hero, a bad ass, a wealthy person, someone with special powers or gain an enormous amount of respect from people who look up to you. This isn't to say you can't be that kind of person in reality, but what if everyone had this ability to find respect, admiration and status, simply by being in the environment long enough. What if all you had to do was play each day and level higher and higher, each goal leading to a new goal of achievement and possibilities. And what if you never had to leave the comfort of your chair to do this?

What if you could really become a diva, a soldier, a magician, or a samurai, and people respected or admired you unconditionally as long as you had a long red bar looming over your virtual head. Or, as in especially my case, what if while you were in this virtual reality, you didn't have to worry about deadlines, due dates, over 1000 emails per day to read and answer, or day-to-day stress that comes with what I do. The virtual reality could absorb you so much, that for the time you are logged in, you forget everything else. It doesn't seem to matter whether you are a strict role-player (someone who stays in character) or 'hardcore' (someone who spends more time in-game than an average user). You still can be addicted and absorbed with the attention you get.

The official Anarchy Online Community Forum, which gets thousands of posts per day, has also been one of my sources for observing how obsessed people have become with the game. Recently, a devoted and well known player had to throw in the towel due to her addiction problem.

"The level to which I got into things here is what has lead me to this point where I must say goodbye. My internet addiction and denial of it has taken me to a point where I must get a hold of it. I realize that many people have what it takes to play a game like this "casually" in a healthy manner. I am unfortunately not one of those people. I am currently battling bi-polar disorder (manic depression) and the escapism that a game like AO offers is too much like a drug for me."

The ability to be respected, to be admired, and to succeed, even in an imaginary world, is a very powerful lure. It can cause a person to produce endorphins, a chemical released into the brain that causes a feeling of energy and well being. Gaming also causes adrenaline production and extreme excitability. Scientists have proven that endorphins and adrenal rushes are incredibly addictive.

"There are indications that pleasurable games and activities cause the body to produce endogenous opiates such as endorphins. These substances are actually addictive. Some addictive drugs, such as heroin, are chemically similar to these natural substances, while other addictive drugs are thought to stimulate their production."
-- Leonard Holmes, Ph.D. from the article, Is Pokémon Addictive? 1999

It should be easy to see why gaming can be addictive as a direct result of the physical effects on the body. I also believe that people can become addicted to respect, admiration and power as well. Even though the production of endorphins can be a positive side affect in one way, it can be easy to overindulge and put aside productive living. But there are many ways to do this and online gaming is not the only vice out there. People find many different ways to escape the problems in their life or to combat stress.

People log on each and every day to find a level of respect that doesn't come easily in day-to-day life. They log on to escape reality or to escape other real problems such as illness and stress. I have met people in this game who have mental disorders or physical impairments. I have also played with people who are in IT jobs all day long, listening to customer complaints, getting bitched at regularly. Some have even admitted that they never hear the words "good job" in the real world.

One player who works in the IT technical services industry, told me "I get my faith in people restored when I get online. People treat me with respect and are actually nice to me. They don't expect anything in return. Also, they believe me when I tell them something because of my level in the game."

I know of other overly stressed out people who log in each day to escape their day-to-day experience of working or living in hard reality. We met a person in game, for example, who is an EMT. Everyday he witnesses death and horrible accidents. He told us that he plays the game to get it all out of his mind. I also met a nurse online with a similar story, and a school teacher who teaches eleventh grade in the Bronx, NYC, who is very stressed out by his job.

"Most human beings pass through periods in their lives, when they feel compelled to engage in some apparently mindless activity that, for the time being, seems to provide some relief from the prevailing chaos in their lives. This could be something as simple as spending hours in front of the television set. Or going on uncontrollable buying sprees just to feel and smell the newness of the product. Or getting into a series of dead-end relationships. Or going on eating binges. Or playing computer games, uncaring of unattended work piling up. Or playing snooker every evening at the club regardless of the family's legitimate demand for more attention. In other words, binging on anything potentially destructive to the body or the soul. Fortunately for many of us, after a period of this compulsive indulgence, we pull ourselves back to the mainstream and get on with our lives, until the next compulsion hits us."
-- Dr. Vijay Nagaswami, from the article, Who? Me? An addict, The Hindu Folio 2001

This is not to say that there are not positive aspects to interacting with people online. Online gaming opens the doors to people who might not have the ability to do so due to time, geography, or many more reasons. Gaming online is an inexpensive and quick way to make new friends, chat with people all over the world and share an experience with people you would never meet because they may be continents away.

One of our online friends, for example, who goes by the character name "Docker", lives in Leiden, Netherlands. Another friend, "Chanell" lives in Einselthum, Germany. These are really interesting people we would never have met if it was not for the game we play online. I asked Chanell why he started playing online games.

"It all began with Diablo II being released. Then my friend, Yppo, made me try it online. I found it was an incredibly boring and annoying game. Then Yppo made me try it online and I loved it. I joined his clan and had months of online fun, then it got boring, close to the moment DAoC [Dark Ages of Camelot] was released in Europe. While I went to DAoC, Yppo chose to go to A.O." Eventually Chanell started playing A.O. as well.

When asked how playing A.O. affects his social life, he reflected, "As for my friends... yes we hang together a lot less. This could be related to A.O. or the fact that we don't work in the same city anymore. I am not totally sure. I still have a lot of phone calls and meetings so I am not "lonesome" it just isn't an as high frequency as before."

And with that I can only think that one's social life is in the eye of the beholder. I interact with Chanell almost every day. In fact I interact with more people than I ever have before because of playing a computer game. They just are not all physically in my proximity.

Interaction with people... It got me thinking and I began to develop my own theories on what causes the addiction. Psychologists can use fancy terminology like "Motivation Factors" and "Attraction Factors" such as self-esteem and self-image problems. They can harp on the role of achievement problems and relationship deficiencies in a person's personality. But I think I can sum it up to one word that would work for any individual needing his or her game "fix" each time they log in, regardless of how well rounded they are in their lives or how much of a basket case they could be perceived as.

RESPECT.

I think it is just that simple. I like the feeling I get when people look up to me in the game or ask my opinion. It seems to be a common drive for players in general. That is, to be respected for being the best and reaching the next level in the game.

Not everyone who plays games neatly fit into these Psychologists stereotypes. "Solories", another Anarchy Online player, is an example of someone who just logs on for the sake of play.

"I would say that I am responsibly addicted, meaning I have never been late to work due to AO.
My wife would prefer that I not play AO as much as I do, but I always make time for her every night, and try and do one thing planned together every weekend. I have never been late to work, but the first night I played AO I stayed up until 4:00 am and had to get up at 6:00 am and the next day I played until midnight. I don't feel that AO affects my work habits, work is work and when it is time to play, it is time to play. I enjoy watching my character grow in his skills and MMORPG's in general let you get away from the normal day to day monotone life and do something out of the ordinary. In AO I am Solories Enforcer of Rubi-Ka a defender of the cause. I fight battles that help my guild get better and help the clans win a war against the Omni."

In the process of my gaming experiment, I became a casualty of the concept of being respected. If someone had asked me in September of 2001 if I expected to be obsessed with an online role-playing game a year down the road, I would have said with confidence that I am one of the most level headed non-addictive persons I know. No way could this happen to me. In fact, I would have been reminded of poor old Iggy and his demise.

I technically have ended my experiment. In the process, I haven't lost my job, and due to our simultaneous obsession, I have not lost my fiancé either. I haven't lost my real life friends, but they do sometimes look at me funny when I talk about the game I play. Low and I get our work done, run our business and have a great balanced life together I think. Anyone who actually knows me in real life can tell you that I have no self image or esteem problems and in fact, I have been accused of having quite an ego. I won't even go into Low's ego. I will admit though, that I have missed quite a few parties, nights out with the girls, shopping, and some chores needed around the office and home because of Anarchy Online. I will also admit that I want to log in as much as I possibly can every single day.

People have worse entertainment addictions than playing computer games. If I am going to be addicted to something, I would choose online gaming over drugs, bowling, gambling, television, or being a baseball fanatic easily. I don't have to wear ugly shoes, lose my hard earned money or do the wave next to someone I don't know and that just about makes it a no-brainer for me. It IS after all just a video game, like Neal describes in his great novel, Snow Crash. It is just another amusement park.

"Amusement parks in the Metaverse can be fantastic, offering a wide selection of interactive three-dimensional movies. But in the end, they're still nothing more than video games."
--Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson

And I will leave you with that. Signing on now... Tenjikiito, level 157 Female Solitus Adventurer, Advisor to the Clan Guild Synergy Factor, the best damn guild on the world of Rubi-Ka, with the best damn virtual people one could ever virtually meet.

Special thanks to the following people for help with my research and leveling:
Sohjiro (Low Tek), Theevilcouch, Demnspawnt, Akarah, Chanell, Sheffy, Mr. Cheeze/Conqueso, Solories, Kirishami, Docker, Ramzie, Boco (who is to blame for all of this), Sultanx, Asmoran, Caddock, Meurgen, Tergwannabe, Trus, Ayanamie, Cplkane, Spherana, Ankokujin, Thedwarf (aka Notmyfault), Stromm, Molg, Butwalrus, Ciyt/Toonot, and Yokoduna.

Related links:

Anarchy Online
Dark Age of Camelot
Ultima Online
Diablo II
The Sims
Everquest
Try Anarchy Online free for 7 days! (We dare you to). =]

1st a little background. When LM 1st decided to tender for the JSF they put forward plans for a smaller cunard foreplane aircraft (a la the Israeli Lavi, the Eurofighter, the Dassault Rafale etc). They even developed a Large Scale Powered Model (LSPM) to demonstrate their JAST concept. A number of Small Scale Powered Models (SSPMs) were also tested to develop a basic understanding of the hover and transition regions. But pretty quicky they realised they could not get the design sorted out within the timeframe, so they went & knocked on the door of the Yakovlev OKB in Russia. In 1992, Lockheed Martin signed an agreement with the Russian Yakovlev Design Bureau & Pratt & Whitney signed one with the Soyuz Aero Engine Company for information on the supersonic Yak-141 STOVL fighter and its three bearing swivel duct nozzle, etc. Yakovlev was paid 'several dozen million dollars', P&W also spent some small change on a license from the Soyuz Aero Engine Company . Its no big secret outside of the US.

Now lets see what AeroWorld Net has to say:

..In 1992/93 Lockheed contracted Yakovlev on some work pertaining to short take-off/vertical landing (STOVL) aircraft studies in reference to the JAST (JSF) project. Yakovlev shared its STOVL technologies with the US company for several dozen million dollars.

Former Yakovlev employees accuse Yakovlev heads of taking personal interest out of the deal with Lockheed, because the official sum of the contract did not correspond with the value of the information presented to the US company. The data was on the Yak-141 test program, aerodynamics and design features, including the design of the R-79 engine nozzles.

After a careful study of those materials, Lockheed - without much noise - changed its initial JSF proposal, including a design of the engine nozzles that is now very similar to those of the Yak-141...

H'mm I wonder what the Russian Aerospace guide has to say, more specifically the archived July/August 95 issue of Cosmonautics

...Lockheed Martin is also cooperating with the Yakovlev Design Bureau to build an advanced fighter/attack jet for Air Force and Navy use. The deal is still pending Russian government approval, but plans call for a prototype to be ready by 2000 and operational plane by 2010. The plane could end up replacing the F-14, 15E, 16, 111, 117, and AV-8B. Yakovlev's contribution will be based on its
recent experience with the Yak-141 VTOL fighter.
...

Now that website may have a Russian slant so lets see what Jane's has to say:

... Lockheed Martin also turned to Russia for technical expertise, purchasing design data from Yakovlev...

I wonder what is says in Aviation Week & Space Technology 1995, v142n25, Jun 19, p. 74-77

Lockheed Martin is turning to Russia's Yakovlev Design Bureau for help in designing short takeoff/vertical landing (STOVL) aircraft for the US Joint Advanced Strike Technology (JAST) competition.

Maybe even The Hindu , 'India's National Newspaper' has something to say on the subject.

...The rise and rise of western dominance since the end of the cold war has given many in countries like India the impression that the former ``eastern bloc'', and particularly Russia, has nothing left of any scientific or technological value. It will therefore surprise many that Lockheed Martin went ahead with development of its successful JSF bid only after getting the design cleared by Russia's Yakovlev aeronautical bureau because they were so impressed by the latter's short take off and vertical landing (STOVL) prototype, the Yak 41. This naval fighter was flying a dozen years ago (!) and only an explosion on board the aircraft carrier `Sergei Gorshkov' (which the Indian Navy is in the process of purchasing) and the economic travails of the disintegrating Soviet Union stopped further development.

Now I wonder what the Google cached pages of the Airforce Magazine have on the subject

...In a postCold War irony, Lockheed Martin consulted with the Yakovlev design bureau of Russia early in the JSF design process because the Yak-141 used a similar approach, though that airplane never made it to series production...

...The swiveling rear exhaust is a licensed design from the Yakovlev design bureau in Russia, which triedit out on the Yak-141 STOVL fighter...

I wonder what they say on the actual JSF page:

...The exhaust from the engine flows through the 3 Bearing Swivel Nozzle (3BSN). The 3BSN nozzle, developed by Rolls-Royce, was patterned along the lines of the exhaust system on the Yakovlev Yak-141 STOVL prototype that flew at the 1992 Farnborough air show....

I'd suggest you also check out the French Prototypes.com website . In partuclar their (Googlised into English) pages that explain the whole process on & the evolution from the Yak-36 to the Yak-38 to the Yak-141 & finally the Yak-41 & the stillborn Yak-43, which so heavily influenced the winning JSF design that LM terminated their double diamond canard foreplane CALF/JAST program to & started all over again using the Yak-43 design they got in their technolgy tranfer agreement with Yakovlev as their new starting point.

& Too finish off, whats say we look at some profile pics

The Yak-141

The stillborn Yak-43 circa 1993

The LM X-35

It seems the LM X-35 looks a lot more like the Yak-43 than the LM's canard foreplane CALF/JAST prototype. Basically the differances are a more stealthy body, uncanted wings & a lift fan rather than a lift jet. Funny thing is back then in the early 90's the Soyuz Engine Company was right in the process of designing a shafted lift fan to replace the old Rybinsk lift jet setup. I won't even start on the vectored rear nozzle setup on the P$W 135 engine which appears to be an exact copy of the Soyuz R79 (ie I'll save the nozzle pics for another day).

Indian government is researching on a RLV that was on news today. The project is still at a concept stage. But they have the obligatory engineeing model. This one also uses liquid hydrogen as propellant.

There is not much info in that news item but another website has a little more information.

What is unique in this is it collects oxygen while in suborbital cruise, converts it to liquid oxygen and uses it to reach orbit. This process has already been testing at the ground level.

They expect to use it for launching LEO satellites and defence surveillance purposes.