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Quake and Tsunami Devastate South Asia
pfb writes "From reuters, 'The world's fifth-largest quake in a century has hit southern Asia, triggering a speeding tsunami that crashed into Sri Lanka and India, drowning hundreds, and swamping tourist islands in Thailand and the Maldives.'"
Doesn't Arthur C. Clarke live in Sri Lanka? Didn't find much Googling quickly...
CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
Wow this is pretty major. Unpredictable or overlooked? At any rate I ghope they're ok.
"To be is to do." -Socrates
"To do is to be." -Jean-Paul Sartre
"Do-be-do-be-do." -Frank Sinatra
...set off by the 8.9 magnitude earthquake...
Windows in JAKARTA, Indonesia, were rattling, and some even broke. And that is a 2-3 hour flight away from the epicenter!
Tsunamis are notoriously difficult to detect, as they remain underwater until approaching the shore; also, the wavelength is in the order of kilometers, so it's very hard to track. However, I'm surprised earthquake detectors could were not used to evacuate people along the coast. A devastating loss of life is the result of such incompetence/inability.
A blog like any other.
I don't remember exactly where A.C. Clarke is living, but it was at Sri Lanka - and in those videos I've seen, he's always walking on the beach.
Makes me wonder if the old guy is still around.
The quake was centered in Summara, an island in Indonesia. I bet that they got the brunt of this thing, so their loss should warrant mention too, I think.
What's more, I hope that we in the first world waste no time getting aid over there. A lot of those countries lack the resources to deal with a tragedy on this scale.
I keep a list of earthquake related resources.
http://virtuelvis.com/
I guess the news here are supposed to be stuff that matters. This matters.
Yeah my brother and wife (John and Brigette) are currently in Thailand and were planning to dive today... unfortunatly I have no idea where in Thailand they are....
He hasn't cotacted me yet, but even if he wanted to I doubt he could.
Fingers crossed!
p.s. The British Foreign office have set up an emergency help line: 0207 008 0000, I havn't been able to get through yet, its really busy.
Not only that, geologists and such people can also be nerds. Seeing how this event is record-setting - in terms of magnitude - and also given the huge loss of life, it is apt, IMO.
A blog like any other.
(A friend in Madras mentioned the quake as soon as he felt it; I've since seen the estimates go from 650 dead to 1500, 3000, 4500, 6300, and now 7000.)
Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
After all it is only thousands of "little brown people".Not Princess Diana or anybody important.
The real story is hoe BUSH stole the election in Ohio through electronic voting fraud and that Kerry is the real President!
Geeks who were online found out about it pretty quickly. I heard about it on Fark. :P People in fishing villages and vacation sites my have missed the info, to their peril.
If you need a tech discussion, here's one, "How can you get the info to the people who needed it?"
Once the earthquake hit with a sea floor epicenter, everyone with a web browser knew a tsunami was going to hit somewhere. Again, no way to tell the people who needed the information. Seemed like the only thing we could do was just wait for news of further death.
Troll my ass. Many people reading this story immediately recognize that this is one of the many terrible events to happen in the world that isn't "geek news". We read other sites too.
Does anyone have links to videos of the event?
Tried Reuters, but there's not much to see.
Area51 - We are watching...
Actually only the preceeding earthquake is unpredictable. When you know where the epicenter of the earthquake is and the topography and makeup of the ocean floor, you can see where the resulting tsunamis (if any are created) will hit hardest.
Unfortunately, you don't have much time between the quake and the tsunami hitting. I hear if Canary Island (The one ready to fall into the sea and wipe out the east coast) would cause a tsunami that could travel across the Atlantic Ocean in 45 minutes, and I read on the BBC that this most recent tsunami was going 2,000km/h, which seems to be roughly the same speed. Mind boggling though.
Also hurting any warning effort is how do you get a mass warning out to places like Sri Lanka? There's no mass media infrastructure and only the minimum of transport infrastructure. I suppose part of this tragedy is how unavoidable it was in these nations' current states. Only Japan has invested any significant amount of money in Tsunami warning systems.
Yup...
What kind of time delay are we talking about between when the earthquake strikes and when the tsunami forms/hits the coast? I always imagined it was something very short, somewhere near a few minutes.
What could be done in that short amount of time, exactly?
It's redundant because the joke has been said probably hundreds of times and everyone has heard it. Not only that, but it should have been modded down anyway for being in bad taste.
Redundant only applies to posts in the current story.
Well, Slashdot does post major event stories from time to time - in fact they make up a large part of the hall of fame. They typically deal with events that are related to the US, despite the fact that a significant part of the readership isn't American. Considering how the story summary is one order of magnitude off - many thousands, not hundreds died - this certainly is a major story and I don't mind seeing it on Slashdot.
On the other hand, why post this when you didn't report on the earthquake in Turkey, or the one in Iran about a year ago, etc? I guess it's because Sundays are slow news days.
Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
That's pretty tasteless really, this is a major disaster and people have died.
Pay some attention to the real world.
# cat
Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
They probably confused "geek" with "gook".
It seems that a displacement in the sea bottom ocurred, moving 10-30 metres up along a rupture of 1000 km, causing a wave of hundreds of cubic kilometres of ocean water.
True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
In Hawaii, they have a system of warning sirens along the coast to warn people of tsunamis. Such a system ought to be more widely deployed in earthquake-prone regions.
You can find the latest news at http://news.google.co.in (The Indian Version of Google News )
>> Techflock-flock onto the best bits of technology
I wonder how the call centers will be on Monday morning? Yeah, I'm working... My CAD package is supported out of India.
Well, instead of caring about the thousands of people who have died you seem to think your nationalistic pride is more important. Am I flaming hard enough?
btw, those flames started after some of your countrymen stated that they didn't give a flying fuck because those people were on the other side of the planet.
now, shut up and donate, it's the least (and only thing?) you can do.
Let me try...
[flame class="ignorant bashing"] Since there are now more than twice the casualties in a single event compare to 9/11, shouldn't we start a War on Tsunamis now? [/flame]
True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
A good friend of mine, and fellow slashdotter (Viduliya (39839)) is currently in Sri Lanka getting married. If he's OK, I'll joke with him about his earth shaking honeymoon when he gets back.
More on Tsunami at Wikipedia
>> Techflock-flock onto the best bits of technology
I'm thinking of keeping things relatively cheap, yet as functional as possible.
----
"Ours was a free culture. It is becoming much less so."-Lawrence Lessig
Of course, this all happening at full moon will probably fuel the people who study whether the gravitational pull of the sun and moon impacts the occurrence of earthquakes like it does tides.
Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
Can anyone put some kind of comparision between the energy release here and the energy release of the prospective planet impactor 2004MN4 ? It would help to put things into scale, if not perspective.
If MN4 were to hit, estimated release is 450-2000 MT of TNT, so how does a Richter 8.9 compare.
Steve
I'm on an island right next to Sumatra (relatively), and there were huge tsunami's hitting us too. The last I heard 15 people died in the floods. It's not as bad as what people in Sri Lanka and India experienced, but still...
My mom felt the quake at around 9, I didn't notice anything though. I'm very thankful Malaysia is relatively safe from quakes, but I feel so sorry for all who were affected.
"Backups are for wimps. Real men upload their data to an FTP site and have everyone else mirror it." -- Linus Torvalds
...between this earthquake and the possible energy released if that asteroid discovered a few days ago actually hits the earth? It would give some basis of comparison between such events.
Quake devastated my social life my first year of college.
Ha ha. Hilarious. Now do one about the AIDS epidemic.
I live quiet close to the shore in Besant Nagar- we got off easy - but it was awesome (not as in exciting but leave your mouth open gaping awesome) to see the sea swell up and eat up the shoreline. I was just driving past and saw a boat go up and down about 20-30 feet from the road!! I parked the car, grabbed the camera - but by then the sea had receded - but that was enough to cause serious damage to the hutments close to the sea. We had mild tremor to start the day - barely noticeable at around 6.30 AM - i looked up the internet and found Tibet post of USGS registering a 8.9 quake at Sumatra -looking at the map I thought to myself - all thats in the line between Sumatra and Chennai is the sea (and of course teeny weeny Andaman). Went out for Breakfast and on my return - this. Its unforgettable and cannot be described. Most of India's coast is devastated - I hear Sri Lanka, Maldives etc are pretty bad too. The Quake here was nothing - a mild shake at best - but the Tsunami that followed was something else Apologies for the verbose post - but I am struggling for words to tell what happened.
Hey, you're either with us or you're with the tsunamis.
...These quakes don't continue. We had a 8.3 down south of Taz (Australia) a few days ago and it is on the same plate. Got me slightly worried that there will be another bigger one. If not this post will probably be funny in a day or so.
I ate your fish.
AIDS is not an epidemic, it's a cure.
You can watch live Indian News at http://www.ddinews.com. I hope they can handle the Slashdot effect :(
>> Techflock-flock onto the best bits of technology
Except 80% of Indians are Hindu... and 70% of Sri Lankans are buddhists.
four hundred trillion tons of luggage, mostly candybars and teddy bears, was dumped in the indian ocean today as Delta had a computer malfuncion that rerouted all flights to the region.
the FAA is looking into the matter of the lost teddybears.
Does it bother you to be so concerned with plugging your site that you shamelessly do it even in the wake of this severe human tragedy?
But, hey, if it gets you some more hits on your site, then I guess that's ok for you.
Let's hope your servers don't get flooded.
Wouldn't modding this as redundant be, in itself, redundant too then?
Well, a single natural disaster that manages to affect upward of a half-dozen nations across thousands of miles is pretty darned impressive...
Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
Propbably one of those earthquake weapons...l e.asp?ID=138 5
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/artic
My site has been following this story since I first felt the temor in Bangkok this morning: http://2bangkok.com/quakes.shtml#quake
Or maybe it's just plate tectonics moving around under our feet. I know it's human nature to think a higher power is standing ready to punish the wicked and reward the good, but when a rock this large cools over billions of years, you have to expect it will jiggle a little.
3000 people died in 9/11 and people were outraged. 6000+ people die in Asia and nobody cares?
It's all about "Quake"... *runs*
I heard about it late last night on a net radio feed (my time EST 0 dark thirty am sometime, I was half asleep) right after it happened, but a tsunami wave travelling roughly the speed of a commercial jetliner doesn't give a lot of leeway even if the people in the soon to be affected areas hear about it.
And this one follows that 8. something quake that hit between tasmania and antarctica just the other day.
I think this story should be taken into consideration along with the asteroid stories, as this wave was only roughly 40-50 feet high, yet by some reports it traveled up to half a mile inland in some places. Just imagine one ten times higher (something like that) from a large asteroid oceanic strike.
But ya, you would think that their would be some sort of emergency alert tied to seismographs, that would automatically get posted to various radio and television and internet sources if it was of sufficient strength, ie, danger. I know we have this alleged emergency alert system in the US that will over ride the TV and radio stations OTA broadcasts, but no idea in other nations what they have for that. Civil defense is always lesser funded than military offense in most nations it appears. What would it really cost to develop a radio based alert system for these various nations? Cost of one jet fighter or tank? And it could be tied to cellphones for that matter through the various national carriers, say, in a true natural disaster (impending or otherwise) scenario, your phone might ring with a pre recorded short message.
I realise in the poorer areas it might be problematic, but surely someone in most areas has a phone or a radio or whatever, you don't have to get the message to every single human directly, just to enough of them in any given area for word of mouth to help out a lot. Wake up and alert one dude per poor village, he can go running outside yelling his head off for that matter, like "dang evac! Tsunami coming! Move it people!" something like that anyway. The old church bells ringing hard and fast deal.
And if that number isn't big enough, they're saying a million people displaced from their homes.
Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
I intended for this to be biting commentary on what went on in my mind, as my first impression was that the story doesn't belong here. I can see now it heuristically resembles a troll.
sorry.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
See my journal, I write things there
I have excellent karma. Obviously the Internet is not like real life.
Score:-1, Flamebait
Time to update your sig...
I am a viral sig. Please help me spread.
2. The flood happened in the morning ours ofafter Christmas.
3. It's a safe bet that there are some Christians among the dead.
4. Any god that would kill thousands of people for worshipping another (or in the case of Muslims, calling him another name) is simply evil.
4a. Make that evil and stupid, since history shows that you cannot wipe out a religion by murdering its followers.
yeah, i agree. more than 7,000 people were killed. have a fucking heart, you insensitive bastard.
Wow, you're a geek and a religious zealot. Congratulations!
troll...
Yeah. Mother Nature.
Punishment for non believers and 9/11 I think?
Please. If you really believe that God's responsible, then you believe in a sick God: He punishes people (including innocent children) via tsunamis just because he doesn't have enough fans? I seriously doubt other Christians would share your view.
the NYTimes even said it disturbed the rotation of the earth.
You sound like a sick person who needs to be cared for in a mental hospital.
If you really believe in God, then you should know that God loves everyone.
don't be so sick.
Please, it pains the rest of us to deal with your diseased consciousness.
except of course, that christmas (other than the name) is a pagan festival that predates christianity.
the AIDS epidemic devastated my social life my first year of college.
And still, stupid people come in with completely pointless posts that clearly identify them as being mentally retarded.
Congratulations.
I live in Chennai(Madras),(Capital City of the State Tamil Nadu - the region worst affected by the Tsunami in India ). For us, this is the first time ever something like a Tsunami hits our coast. The earthquake itself was not deadly but the tides alone were responsible for the death of more than 1000 people according to some reports. Since this happened early in the morning and the day being a sunday, not many people were awake at that time. In my city alone almost 100 poor fishermen who live in the huts along the seashore were washed away. Coastal regions in the Southern parts of my state where even more affected - a lot many were drowned in the flash floods. The fact that I was sleeping unaware of the whole thing at that time, less than a kilometre away from the sea, sends a shiver down my spine.
You can find some pictures here.
According to what I'm seeing on Fox News Channel, the death toll may well exceed 10,000 by a substantial margin because many parts of India, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and Indonesia have yet to report.
I am concerned about the US military base on Diego Garcia, since it's pretty much open ocean in a straight line from the island to the earthquake epicenter. =(
Dude, you are fucking nuts. Make a favor to mankind and just shut up, its because people like you that we are heading again to the Dark Ages. People like you spread hate and fear between humans disguised in the form of religion, people like you make war and kill in the name of some kind of god that you never saw or feeled. you represent the worst of mankind
Can anybody find any info or posts about Ao Nang in the Krabi province of Thailand? I Googled, but could not find anything. My wife and I were just there a couple of weeks ago before heading back to the states. Pretty scary when you realize that it could have been you or your loved one washed out to sea.
The sources are in french my native language but any translation tool should do the job for you.
Last estimate were at 7000 and still counting, a village in Sri Lanka is totally destroyed, hotel and houses were seen floating atop waves crashing in the land repetitively. This is one of the worst catasrtophy we have seen in several decades.
Cyberpresse, a leading quebecquers media outlet
Our public television network take on it
Earth is getting even, everymonth the amount of such catastrophy happens more and more, earth will win, it always has, we fucked it up, its not happy, if needed it will wipe all of us off of its face, sry for what seems like a religious belief it is not, it is mere observation.
Does it show the same stories over and over and over again?
Are the adverts intrusive and increasing?
You may wish to reconsider your statement.
At the bottom of the
I've heard no word in the news about Arthur C. Clark. While thousands are dead, he likely has a sturdy structure to live in, and it would be unlikely statistically he perished. Has as been posted though, he lives on the coast so really stating any odds would be hard. I hope he is alive, but only to the extent I wish anyone life and happiness. He has lived a full life, and should he be gone our concern should be with the living. Ironically should he have perished, it would probably inspire more aid for those left alive.
Hopefully the now approximately 6000 estimate wont climb much higher, but if the past is any guide expect this to grow at least past 20,000.
BTW is it just me, or does it seem in poor taste for News outlets like FOX and CNN to focus on possible American casualties when these kind of natural disasters happen? I can understand this in the case of Attacks and Bombings, since Americans could be the targets. But with thousands dead, the news agencies are scrambling to find out if one or two Americans snuffed it.
Letter To Iran
Yes, so what? One was on purpose by a bunch of f'd up muslims. The other a chance geological event (insert god blame here). Would it matter bitching about an earthquake? No. Would it matter instituting an effort eradicate the enemies of my country? Yes. Now you figure out why the coverage is so different.
Until 3 years ago the nation that gave most was Japan. They've cut back in the last few years though, and the US has given a lot of money recently to Pakistan, even though it has been selling its nuclear secrets to terrorists.
The country giving the largest proportion of aid per unit income is Norway, which gives about 6 times as much as the US per unit income.
I found some stats here if you're interested
What is interesting is that there was another quake on the 24th of 8.1 off the coast of Tasmania, the other side of the continential plate that caused this one ( AFAIK). That end of the plate gave way and that affected this one? A warning? I don't know, but it might have been related.
Massive earthquake felt in Tasmania
December 24, 2004 - 7:55AM
The world's biggest earthquake in almost four years has struck 800 km
off the coast of Tasmania, Australian seismological officials said.
Geoscience Australia said the quake, measuring 8.1 on the Richter Scale
hit the Macquarie Rise, in the Pacific Ocean, at 1.59am. [...]
It's a Bagel.
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.prophecies .nostradamus/msg/99de7ac658525a4c/
Here is some link to one interesting post.
Agreed.
I wonder how many Ameri-bashers realize the amount of government and non-government aid the US donates. Government aid figures are easy to find. Non-government aid isn't that hard to find for the US, but apparently no other nation tracks those figures. BTW, non-government aid from the US was about 243 billion dollars last year.
damaged by dogma
This is an astounding loss of life, and a healthy fraction of the posts are just evil. If this is what slashdot has come to, prejudice, intolerance and ill-will for those that have suffered, I'm outta here. These are your brethren. Mothers and fathers, sisters and brothers, uncles and aunts that have been hit by an unannounced, unpreventable, and unknowable tragedy. I'm appalled.
---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
I guess the news here are supposed to be stuff that matters. This matters.
But you are dropping context in order to amp up the emotionalism for your post. Do you really feel that an NES Overclocking Guide is news that matters? It's news that matters to nerds specifically - which this isn't.
About 6,000 people are dying every week in the war in Congo, where are the posts about that? Twice that die weekly in Sudan of starvation, where are the news articles? I'm sure you quickly see the problem: the world is full of disasters happening constantly. There is never any moment in time when thousands of people's lives are not ending in some tragic way.
If you remove the "News for nerds" standard and "Stuff that matters" becomes the only criterion then why quote reuters in the first place? Slashdot should be reuters in that case.
As the "fifth largest in a century," this isn't world-shaking news (so to speak) and not impactful of most geeks. Had this article not been posted, how many geeks would even find out about it in their normal daily course of action?
Sure you do, and you're not a Christian, either.
You just can't resist an opportunity to generate more anti-Christian hate.
One question: are you "Punk Eek" or a true Darwinian?
Quake and Tsunami Devastate South Asia
I thought for a second that Tsunami was another video game and that all the young people of South Asia had become horribly addicted, thereby forcing the local economies to collapse...
Am I the only one who finds these death countings insensitive and dastardly? It sounds like you folks are keeping score in some video game, 7000, 8500, 11500! Yeah High score! ... Let's just say thousands have died and millions affected and get to the task of fixing things up again.
And no, I don't buy that "every life counts" BS. Of course every life counts, whether it's the first one affected by this or the last. But IMO, this running total has quite the opposite effect, it dehumanizes the event into a mere sensationalized news item.
I'm curious as to why a similar magnitude earthquake, also in the ocean, occurring off the coast of Australia shortly before this earthquake didn't cause a tsunami as well?
News about this earthquake here: http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,11 778537%255E3462,00.html
Not that I'm complaining, mind you, but I'm curious as to what the differentiating factor is between these two earthquakes which means one creates a tsunami and the other doesn't.
Indeed, the last tsunami we had was in 1977, which came with a cyclone; my grandpa was involved in some heroics [which he loves to narrate whenever we go to his place in rural India ;-) ]. I don't know if this is how it is in, say, Hawaii or someplace, but the morning that tsunami hit the coast, everyone apparently went to work normally. It was only by 10AM or so that word spread that the sea was coming in (to use a vernacular phrase for 'tidal wave') and by then, all they could do was to climb onto rooftops and wait for the waters to recede.
More than mere navel gazing.
Cigarettes don't kill, people kill. It's your own fault if you treat your body like a sewer.
I send my regards and sympathies to your people. Lets pray for a quick recuperation of the area. Its good to read from fellow slashdotters that survived this catastrophe.
Cheers,
Adolfo
The quake was so powerful the shockwaves circled the planet.
"All the planet is vibrating" from the quake, said Enzo Boschi, the head of Italy's National Geophysics Institute. Speaking on SKY TG24 TV, Boschi said the quake even disturbed the Earth's rotation."
Source
Unless this raises the price of RAM I don't see how or why it matters.
So much for the loving god, eh? I guess you should become Jewish since it's the Old Testament which had the vengeful god, and Jesus supposedly changed that. So it seems you don't believe in your own religion.
Letter To Iran
A few. We call them Protestants.
Sure you do, and you're not a Christian, either.
You just can't resist an opportunity to generate more anti-Christian hate.
One question: are you "Punk Eek" or a true Darwinian?
Your paranoia is getting the better of you.
i am from one of the places where the earthquake has reportedly hit. however, i guess it was too mild 'coz we didn't feel a thing here... thanl God.
Just a reminder that humans aren't the only victims here. In natural disasters such as this one, the most helpless victims are overlooked. My personal favorite charity is the Save the Tiger Fund, or find one for yourself to help support.
I heard about it right away. some one mentioned it in IRC. freenode #linux
Why it is good to start with high estimate: Gets world wide resources. Sets how many people, and how much in the way of funds will be on their way for aid.
Why it is good to start with low estimate: (normally a bad idea), may keep moral up in areas that don't see how bad things are.
Ryan
If a Hindu of your zeal has a holy text comparable to yours, this would be seen by them as evidence supporting the existence of their equivalent of the devil -- Showing the importance of maintaining belief as a means of resistance in a time of turmoil.
Your beliefs lead a lot open to interpretation. I hope you'll have some some perspective and perhaps we'll have seen the last of this crap some day.
Blinded by patriotism?
"USA's aid, in terms of percentage of their GNP is already lowest of any industrialized nation in the world, though paradoxically in the last three years, their dollar amount has been the highest."
http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/US Aid.asp#Almostallrichnationsfailthisobligation
My point was merely that I come to /. for geek news, which these days they have very little of.
I go to CNN, FoxNews, WSJ, or the drudge for all other news.
Tsunamis aren't news for nerds.
Blessed be he who reads this post, Cursed be he who tells my boss.
I find it very distasteful.
Should I stop telling you what a publicity monger you are just because I call you on your shamelessness?
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/recenteqsww/Quakes/quak es_big.html
Lots of information on global earthquakes. Looks like lots of strong after shocks in the region.
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
Well, I guess this is mother nature's answer to outsourcing... Seriously though, this was really bad timing. There were probably tons of people in beach resorts who were on holiday.
Once the earthquake hit with a sea floor epicenter, everyone with a web browser knew a tsunami was going to hit somewhere.
Are you sure? Because I read somewhere that only vertical movement in the ocean causes tsunamis, that not all quakes in the ocean cause tsunamis. But, not sure about this...
The difference is that those people chose to smoke.
I've never understood why it's so bad to make jokes about serious issues.
Really, as long as it's not something like "lol thousand gazillion people died hahah stoopid niggerrsss they should've moved to New York hahaha", I mean, actually laugh at the disaster itself, I think it's pretty ok to realize that Quake is also a video game.
I'd mod the joke up if I could.
Granted, the loss of life is tragic, but what about other conseqences? Are there any electronics or IT industries affected? Are we going to see the price of memory or electronic components go up due to damaged factories, warehouses, or communication disruption? Not that paying more for RAM is anywhere near as tragic as the loss of life there, of course.
Wow! This would make for some whoopass big wave surfin'!
Is it bad, if the first thing I thought of while reading the title was that they got addicted to Quake, much like a significant portion of the South Korean population stayed home on the launch of World of Warcraft?
...I'm not related to those mud people.
Wow, that post is full of so much BS that I could almost see it as parody. ...and now for the *real* reason...
It's not about work ethic or skills. The reason westerners are so expensive is because of our on-going materialistic lifestyles. Simple as that really. Other developing nations live on a minimalist-survival level. And if those said countries have the skills, they will practically work for free compared to a westerners counter part. Yet ironically, those programmers in India are still making a kings ransom worth in relation to the rest of the citizens in India.
As a side note, the influx of work provided by western investment is causing a huge boom in the local India economy. Already India is seeing a demand for motorcycles and luxury cars. It wont be long (culture wise) before the citizens of India too start demanding the same materialistic lifestyles we enjoy just like in Europe, America, Japan, and China (in the process).
Basically, think of this as global economic equilibrium in its purist form.
Life is not for the lazy.
I would have thought that news of a massive earthquake at sea backed by warnings of a tsunami would have worried enough people to get them to move (possible panic being another issue.
Cyclone's don't tend to create tsunami's as such, more the low pressure builds up water levels which can then be pushed further inland by the winds. This is a gradual process (like an extremely high tide), rather than the sudden impact of a tsunami.
See my journal, I write things there
Many indonesians smoke often pirated Philip Morris.
The Indians are even worse with their foul smelling bidis. Bet they wont be able to get their matches to strike now
Its about the same distance from the epicenter as some of the areas in India being hit hard. The highest elevation of Diego Garcia is about 20 meters. And at this time I'd expect it jam pack with equipment and personnel.
Interestingly enough, the Arthur C. Clarke Foundation was working in a project to provide early warnings / relief support in the event of tsunamis. From the Arthur C. Clarke Foundation's website (see here):
Note that the test was scheduled for 2005... unfortunately a little too late. Also, they were focusing on the Pacific instead of the Indian Ocean. Given that Clarke himself lives in Sri Lanka, I wonder how the current events would affect the project. It is clear to me that the Indian Ocean has been somewhat neglected.
You're bound to be unhappy if you optimize everything. --Donald Knuth
Guess what Christ Lover.
God hates you and doesnt want you in heaven with your half understood thology and your simplistic views. Nice gentle indonesians on the other hand well gather them in
Seriously if you are some kind of theist maybe you should study philosophy and try and understand what your religion is about?
What I hate most about the evangelist moron wing of the christian faith is that they cant be bothered to even understand their own faith
make more idiotic 'helpful' 'insightful' posts?
Hi. Did anyone notice in the photographs that those that have been earthly-killed seem to have strange arm positions? Is that a common sign from a drowning? Does anyone know?
I know someone who was diving on a boat on a small island some distance from Phuket. Is there any chance he could have survived?
Hoping anyone with knowledge of how tsunami's work might have a good idea. Would he be carried with the wave or would it just pass him?
Thanks for any responses
unfortunately that is neither funny nor false
good job.
This is exactly the sort of consideration that should have been integrated into the summary to render it topical for the site.
what the hell does that have to do with the poster, or the story?
nothing.
Don't use those people deaths as an excuse to be prejudice.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
My heart goes out to those affected but it will only get worse. I looked at the list of major quakes since 1900 and it seemed that almost half were in the last 10 years. Do you think that maybe the Bible is right? What can we do to help those who are affected? What can we do to prepare for ourselves for such events? 72 hour kits are a great way to start.
They probably confused "geek" with "gook".
Mod parent down. I can't believe some of the modding here.
This thread needs a "-1, Sick".
San Francisco, 1905. No Christians there ?
Various bits of the net are hard to get at right now (from Oz, that is ...).
... anyone heard any reports?
Wondering if the quake has caused any probs
Uh, you do also realize that there were a large number of Christian tourists at these beaches, correct? I was reading articles about people snorkelling/sunbathing being swept away. If God's after the "non-believers", he shouldn't wave his hand and wipe away hundreds/thousands of his own disciples.
I don't mean to downplay the earthquake, but people died on 9/11 at the hands of terrorists while people died on 12/26/04 at the hands of nature. One was preventable, the other one wasn't. One was man-vs-man, the other was nature-vs-man. Apples and oranges.
The last time I was in Malaysia I watched CNN and it was like being on another planet. The resemblence of what is broadcast in North America to what is broadcast in Malaysia was so weak that I could not believe it was the same organisation.
So I would not put too much weight on what CNN is broadcasting here as far as being america-centric is conserned.
What is ironic is the OP is suggesting that people unrelated to 9/11 are being punished for it by god. Whoops, don't mean to tweak you folks, "God".
Now that, my friends, is truly a work of art. Troll or unintentional, it's still a post worthy of reading.
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
No quake in Japan killed anybody in 2002, and certainly not on Boxing Day. You need psychiatric help, my friend.
s/their/there/
"2. 6000 dead is not an astounding loss of life."
and this is why whenever i see a picture of the former world trade centers i sit back and smile
americans are the cancer of the earth.
I'm a Japanese, and I feel I heard of the legend, but uncertain.
So I googled.
see the full story(Japanese page)
The story was known as one article of our very old language arts schoolbook of national elementary schools. It was published about from 1937 to 1947. I've never seen the text, of cource, but I think I heard this story from my teacher.
This is a story about a farmar and an earthquake which hitted Kishu (now, Wakayama Pref.), in 1854. Outline of the story is totally same as Rob Carr described above. In addition, he is not just a farmer, but a 7th meister of Yamasa soy sauce factory, a first chairman of council of Wakayama Pref., and a first minister of Post Office Dept. (It was a era of revolution...)
For foreign countries, Lafcadio Hearn (known as Yakumo Koizumi in Japan) introduced this story first, in his book 'Gleanings in Buddha-Fields (ISBN:1596050217 or other)'. One Japanese teacher rewrited this to a simple and dense text for children, and choosed as an article of textbook by the nation. This version is re-translated to English, and taken in textbook of Colorado state elementary school, titled 'The burning of the rice fields' (the page is saying so. I don't know it's true or not).
Actually, in Japan, everyone knows, I believe, that sea surface oftenly drawn off before a Tsunami. We live with earthquakes, typhoons, volcanos, and fires (because of densely build old wooden houses). We are so careful(even an exess sometimes) and preparing for such disasters, so we can imagine to some degree what is going on. It is terrible to have a great Tsunami without no warning and information. Systems and informations are required.
A. Hundreds of miles from the mainland where you don't have the luxury of being able to run 100 miles more inland and a few hundred feet UP.
This was probably not exactly great for those folks who are the permanent residents either.
The Pacific always carries these threats, and others more severe. The regions that are plagued by earthquakes are also often in close proximity to volcanoes.
The Pacific Coast of Washington State is ringed with small two-lane highways where you can drive right on to the beach. If you step out of your vehicle and wander around long enough you will see traffic-type signs indicating tsunami evacuation routes. These are the black-bordered yellow signs with the little AOL creature running in the direction of the arrow.
Within 100 miles of those tsunami signs sit the Cascade Mountains, which comprise the northeastern range of the Ring of Fire.
This is the reward for living next to the "Pacific" Ocean. The City of Grunge and its outlying area has the great fortune to live near ~9.0 magnitude capable faults, and a volcano ring that can distribute all manner of pyroclastic and other major debris flows.
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
funniest Slashdot post in a while.
-- Jack
Exactly one year ago, (dec 26th, 2004) a massive earthquake (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4125385.st m ) hit Iran and approximately 30,000 people died then.
I know there's no real link between the two, but it's still 'strange'.
Gee, since that happened in the 60's, and none of the people that are there now or current governments were involved, some of us might just worry about people in general. Some of us might even think you are a dickhead for be so against any military personell anywhere you would rather they all drown instead of being punished for something that happened 40 years ago.
Somebody needs a serious reality check, and to re-think their mental framework - a clue for the dense (you); it's not me.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
People just lost their friends and loved ones, and you say big fucking deal?
Pray to god we don't get news any of your friends or family dying. We'll be there carrying banners saying " Big Fucking Deal "
Get all these freaks coming out of the woodworks.
The island is called Los Gigantos, the one that Mt Teide is located on. The volcano itself isn't the real threat, it's the cliffs that rise almost a mile above the shore, with a fault line less than a mile offshore.
Yup...
And if you just pretend to care (and fool yourself in the process), watch teevee and discuss with others how horrible the loss of life was, I have just one thing to say - you are an idiot!
So, you don't think the loss of life was terrible, moron? Just because it's not on the list of the most common causes of death it's not making it better, you asshole. Tell me, our Great Math Genius, terrorism, murders, are also not on the list, should one not care about them eiher?
you're dead inside.
"OK, so 10000 people died. Big fucking deal."
unbelievable.
Why read the article when I can just make up a snap judgement?
Some people say stuff like that but magically forget when talking about something that pertains to them more personally... like 9/11, if parent is a US citizen.
This is the same guy who mocked and "lol"ed in many posts arguing that nobody knew what caused the phases of the moon, drawing from a grade-school religious science textbook. All this despite the mountains of evidence given that proved him wrong. Basically a fucking idiot or humorless troll whose words should not be heeded.
/. page...
Here's a timely and apt quote from the bottom of the
There is no sin but ignorance. -- Christopher Marlowe
So how many does it need to be to stop being a big deal? Would you care to quantify that for us?
It's a big deal to people if they are involved with the disaster. You are basically calling 10,000 dead people idiots because they happened to be killed by a natural disaster that nobody warned them about, or was unpredictable. Big fucking deal if you don't care, perhaps it wouldn't be such a trivial matter if it was your town or city which had been hit.
But the theory of the propogation of Tsunamis is, and the problem of warning people is, and GEOLOGISTS ARE NERDS TOO.
you're dead inside. "OK, so 10000 people died. Big fucking deal." unbelievable.
Seconded. There are people who dont know if loved ones are alive or dead right now. My heart goes out to you guys... thankfully all the people I know in that region are OK... Take care all you SE asian slashdotters.
No, if nature was effective morons like you would be the first to go.
CNN interrupted the breaking story this morning to talk about delayed holiday flights and how unfortunate those who were late for Christmas were. Kinda puts things in perspective, doesn't it?
Japan, Kamchatka, Alaska, Washington, California, Mexico, Chile?
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. - Yogi Berra
I was in Koh Phangen Island off Thailand. Also passed through Phukit (Sheesh! Whotta name). Beutiful Islands, and as I recall, I think it missed the Full Moon party by just a day or so.
Every full moon, on Koh Phangen, all the "Trance heads" have their usual monthly ritual... Although the Island is on the other side of the Malaysian Penninsula (somewhat protected), I suspect it also got hit pretty hard. No word on anything yet, because I was unable to reach my friend in Bangkok.
If I get any word, I'll post it here....
A Global Raver
A nuclear power station in Kalpakkam, India, was shutdown because of the flooding.
Natural disasters like these are in nature's hands. The only thing we can do is stockpile nuclear weapons and send a few previliged men to moon. That is going to help us in the loooooong run.
Out of all the developed nations the US donates the lowest percentage of GDP in aid, and that includes all the corporate welfare masquerading as aid.
So take it back. All of it. Then piss off and leave us alone. Learn to get over your messiah complex. You're far more trouble than you're worth. Go home.
...if it comes from god?
How about the one that hit Tasmania on the 24th? Are they are muslims? What about all the possibly Christian tourists there now?
Finally, isn't it interesting that thse evetns all happened on one of the seismicly most violent areas of the world, the Ring of Fire?
Or wait, no, you're right. See, God created teh Ring of Fire, then created man, THEN made sure that all the non-believer's settled NEAR the ring of fire (except all us Christians in Canada, Cali, Mexico, etc.) so that he could punish them on a date holy to Christians that is UNRELATED to actual events of Christ's life....yeah....
BTW's, for info on Christmas, look up the Coucil of Nicea (Nicene Creed, anyone?) and the early history of the Church. Peter Brown has some good stuff.
As a Christian i find you to be abhorent. You are the reason the rest of the world hates us.
Well, that would explain Cyclone Tracy, 1974 Christmas Day that devastated Darwin. Hotbed of heathens, them Aussies.
Before you click "Troll," please hear me out:
On each anniversary of September 11th, I've consistently encountered people who asserted that our grief was selfish and unjustified because "worse disasters had happened elsewhere" - that is, had a higher bodycount.
Here's just one example: This seems to be the prevailing attitude among many: the scale of a human tragedy is directly proportional to it's bodycount. It's an attitude I've encountered multiple times in Real Life as well as on
Well, I'd like to write now what I wrote then, over two years ago...someting to keep in mind while you're reading this coverage:
The very notion that the relative significance of human tragedies can be "ranked" by their respective bodycounts is itself sickening.
divx (9.5 MB) here
So how many does it need to be to stop being a big deal? Would you care to quantify that for us?
Would you? How many does it need to become a big deal? Any specific number is clearly arbitrary, but overall I'd say that ordinary people should not care until it's at least ten times that. Of course, relatives, friends, emergency services, humanitarian agencies, media outlets, geologists and the like have their reasons to be concerned, but the majority of people clearly have no reason at all to worry. I am not calling those who died or those who lost a friend idiots, I am calling idiots the 99.99% of people, who will not be affected in any way, but pretend that they give a shit.
I am just asking for some rationality. Yes, if it's your city, you need to be worried. Yes, if your sister was on vacation in that region, you need to be worried. But most of us shouldn't. And if someone wants to worry about global issues, about people suffering in remote regions of the world, then he is an idiot, because a child still dies from hunger every five seconds, which means about 17 thousand children in the world die from hunger every day. This is more than died in that stupid earthquake, this only includes children and this happens every fucking day of the year, not just once in 40 decades. So I am saying that if someone obviously cares about this stupid earthquake, but does not care about much greater number of people dying otherwise, that person is an idiot.
Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
1) I am not a US citizen.
2) I don't care about a few hundreds people dying each year from terrorism in my country.
3) I do care about statistically significant threats, such as car accidents and heart desease.
4) I did not object to people who cared because they had a reason to care, such as living in Sri Lanka. I object to people, who live on the other side of the world, have no friends/relatives who are affected, are not affected in any other way, but still act as if they care, because they were conditioned to react that way and because "it's on TV", while not giving a flying shit about real problems, such as (for starters) world hunger.
Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
The stereotypical Slashdot computer geek is an amoral dork who rarely wanders away from his computer, which is probably located in his parents' basement. There are exceptions, but that's the stereotype. Enjoy.
I'd use the word 'bore'.
Well, do I have any reason to expect otherwise? There are more than 6 billion people living on Earth. With that many people, most of whom are not immortal yet, death is to be expected. Several hundreds of thousands of people die every day. Now there are 10000 more. Could you explain, why exactly this is a big deal? Why exactly should we care?
P.S. Of course, it's a big deal to those who losed their loved ones, but let me tell you, I didn't and I bet you didn't too. In fact, assuming about 100 close friends per victim (I am being extremely generous), only about 0.015% of all people on Earth have such personal reason to care.
Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
Do you cry every time 10000 people die? Do you at least make a sad face and observe a minute of silence each time 10000 people die? May you you should start now? After all, you would need to sob only for half an hour each day, because, no matter how big of a surprise it is for you, 300000 people die each day.
May be you would explain how you react to all those deaths, or the "live inside" one? Please take a moment of your busy schedule mourning the untold deaths and explain us how you care about an even greater tragedy happening each day? And if (as I suspect) you don't give a crap about those other deaths, then please explain the reason for such a difference in attitudes.
Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
blame USA for not signing the kyoto treaty.
USA is responsible for 1/4 of all the greenhouse gases effects but represents only 1/25 of world population.
glaciar ice melting and the increase of water mater is one of the side effects of the global warmming.
I have a message from God, to you, Saven Marek:
YOU ARE GOING TO HELL FOR ALL THAT WHACKING OFF TO HENTAI THAT YOU DO. REPENT.
Now before I get modded down, I be to remind whoever might read this that what I am saying is FACT. - bogaboga
Wow! You are a persistent moron... but you should refrain from contradicting yourself in regards to your earlier posts. Then you should look up 'ordinal numbers' and 'cardinal numbers' think a bit more about your ridiculous arguments, taking into consideration the added possibility that reality may not consist solely of numbers. Finally, you should pick up a few books on rationality, and for good measure anything about the completeness of logic, polishing that off with a side-foray into quasi-rational thinking (hmm... I bet you could benefit from a book on quasi-rational economics since you're probably the type to troll economic related threads with your outstanding obtuseness, and that dash of juvenile arrogance). It should take you a few months before you post again. Really, I'm finding myself much more irritated by the amazingly irrational posts from self-agrandizing technical geeks than any 'irrational' and kind-hearted posts from lay geeks.
Is that you, Dubya?
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
When you look at it Islam Buddhist Hindu were the one's that suffered, all non christians in non christian nations.
Never mind the fact that the earthquake hit in Indonesia's Aceh province, with a siginificant Christian population (you'd know that if you bothered to follow the news outside of America).
And on one of Christianity's more holy of days.
Boxing Day? Or does God follow US time?
Well my brother who works for Weta Workshop is in Thailand where some of the damage has been done, we haven't heard from him yet. But there is a geek connection.
There was a huge earthquake (8.1 on Richter) south of Tasmania 3 days before. It made headlines http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000081&si d=aUIanL7wC_m8&refer=australia/ but fortunately no victims. However if you look at a map of tectonic plates http://geology.about.com/library/bl/maps/blplatesw topoehem.htm/ and compare it with the location of the earthquake http://www.iris.edu/seismon/ you can see it happened at the southern tip of the Indian plate. Now 3 days later on the middle of the eastern edge of the same plate another huge earthquake...looks like plate movement to me.
Did Sollog predict this one ??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sollog
http://www.sollog.com/
The stuff they have online is all "predictions" of stuff that happened in the past. If you want about the future you have to subscribe.
But there is no reason to care about 10000 dead, because this is not news at all. Especially since most of the people killed are probably uneducated simple-minded folks, who lived in shitty houses.
Wow. Dude, just read what you wrote again, take a deep breath and think again. So let's say you (your relatives/friends) live in Russia, danila, and your flat is
a "shithouse" by modern west european standards. I hope you did't mean that your life is less meaningfull than the life of an average european just because of that?
I hope you would also agree that there are many people who are much smarter and received a better education than you. Do you mean then that your life is somehow worth less?
Suggestion: look up "compassion" in the dictionary.
Please. If you really believe that God's responsible, then you believe in a sick God: He punishes people (including innocent children) via tsunamis just because he doesn't have enough fans? I seriously doubt other Christians would share your view.
If you believe in the God of Christianity (who is omnipotent and omniscient), this tsunami almost has to be punishment. This is a big problem area in religious philosophy, normally referred to as the problem of evil. A common argument is that suffering can actually be good, so that is why a absolutely good diety would allow disasters like this (on a smaller scale, it is like the idea of a parent spanking a child to make them a better person).
Anyway, I would imagine quite a few Christians believe this was punishment. They don't have a lot of other choices considering the basics of their religion.
There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion. -- Francis Bacon
Man, you just don't give up, do you? I will give you an example, I have no friends or relatives who lived in Indonesia or Sri Lanka or anywhere close. Yet I had friends who died in an earthquake in the 80s. Naturally, the recent news has affected me emotionally.
I can easily imagine a lot of other people who lost their loved ones in a fire, quake, terrorist attack etc. The news of a big earthquake, which is repeated in mass media stirs their emotions, consciously or subconsciously.
I am sure one can think of numerous other reasons why people get so emotionally involved.
You can see why your estimates of how many people are allowed (by you) to feel sorry for the people who died are not very useful.
By simpy calling everyone who cares idiots and presuming not only that you know but also that you have the right to give orders on how people should or should not react, you are making an idiot of yourself.
why would god care? life is an infinite resource, not rare. and also if he is real, he can recreate a trillion new planets any where, so why would he need to bother with micromanagement.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
..Torrent! boy i hope that doesn't happen online.
I just heard some sad news on talk radio - Horror/Sci Fi writer Stephen King was found dead in his Maine home this morning. There weren't any more details. I'm sure everyone in the Slashdot community will miss him - even if you didn't enjoy his work, there's no denying his contributions to popular culture. Truly an American icon.
Our emotional reaction to an event is not a simple monotonic function of the overall number of casualties involved. All your posts seem to originate from failure to realize this simple fact. On the other hand, I may be wrong, and you do understand it, but you are saying that most people have an "idiotic" emotional reaction, but then again, this would be ridiculous. Emotions cannot be "idiotic" or "smart". Our reaction to our emotions can be "idiotic", but as you realize , no one of our fellow ./ posters jumps out of the window.
So, what are you really saying?
To get the latest info on the Earthquake, try monitoring this feed from PubSub.com:
2 bd5f.xml
http://rss.pubsub.com/ef/c3/b9173332d3d1011651b6f
Content will be updated every 15 minutes and will contain the most recent 32 blog entries that mention the event.
bob wyman
A longer section from the 9pm bbc news
approx. 14 minutes divx (~105MB ) here
...as I write this.
But then, hardly any of the dead were US nationals, or white, even, eh.
Just when you think you've seen the worst of US ignorance and crass stupidity, along comes someone like maximilln, to prove there's always one just a bit worse.
This is truly a sad day for all of humanity. 11,000 people is a huge incredible loss of life. We can talk about the science behind tsunamis all day long, but let's all take a moment to pray for the victims of this catastrophe. Keep in mind that it's not just 11,000 dead, but it's millions homeless, without clean water or food, or a place to live.
If you can, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE give some money to one of the many relief organizations that is working to help feed and shelter people in the affected zones. I am sure the International Red Cross would be a good place to start.
More than mere navel gazing.
I heard that in Krabi (Thailand) people notice the sea withdrawing uncharacteristically about 5 minutes before the first wave hit. Anyone can explain that?
In the attempts to link the stories of the Old Testament to historic events, a tsunami in the Mediterrenean sea is used to explain how the sea "opened". Indeed, right before a tsunami, the level would first drop, letting Moses and his people cross the "sea" there, and the wave would then have drowned the Egyptian army or whoever was after them.
In this hypothesis, Moses would have crossed from Egypt to Israel through a sort of swamp land near the mediterranean cost, where the tsunami effect wouldn't have been very brutal but rather slow. The level drop would have been enough to let people cross that swamp.
Unfortunately, I don't have any reference. I saw that in a documentary once. And I'm certainly no expert in Biblical stuff.
Maybe someone has some links? The part of the documentary which I saw was very interesting. It also explained the 7 plagues of Egypt, mainly with a strong volcanic eruption in the Mediterranean, which is believed to have taken place around 3000 BC if I remember correctly.
My housemate's flower horn fish started behaving strangely since yesterday. Horn fish by nature is very aggressive. That fish would stalk me whenever I go near the tank but it had been hiding in one corner eversince. Could this be a sign of another potential quake?
Anyone here finding their house pets behaving similarly weird?
Reality is what we taste, smell, see, hear and touch yet we cannot comprehend it...only approximate it.
Let's be realistic, shall we? All other things equal, a life of a less educated person is worth less than of a more educated one. I am aware that many people were programmed to think otherwise, and there is not much I can do about it (to explain why they are wrong requires personal contact and a few hours of my time), but I hope you are not one of them.
Now if we agree on that one, let's consider who died in this disaster. I must admit that I didn't follow the news very closely, but from what I know about the countries hit most, there are a lot of poor people who live in poor houses, and many of those live near the coasts. Now, my house may be shitty by modern west european standards (all our west european friends were probably too polite to say that), but at least it was built moderately well and won't fall down and bury its inhabitants under the rubble.
I am not saying that those people were somehow less worthy for living in a shitty house, I am just saying that statistically those living there were likely to have shitty education as well. And while I am certainly not saying that there can be no decent people without a quality modern education, I believe that had this disaster occured near Japan or New Zealand, the quality of "human resources" lost would be much higher.
It's hard to quantify, especially when people imply that compassion means "everybody is as valuable as everybody else". But when people with arrow range of interest, with little knowledge of the world behind their village, with oiir understanding of history, humanity place in the universe and stuff like that die, I feel the loss is smaller than it would be if a similar number people in Holland died because their dams didn't stop a tsunami.
I knew perfectly well that that paragraph was provocative, but I see no reason to deny my feelings about that (or lack thereof), even though it wasn't vital to my main arguments (too few people died to care).
Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
Proof that outsourcing pisses off God too!
I am saying that the idiocy of our reactions IS a simple monotonic function, not a boolean one with the possible results of idiotic (jump out of the window) and not idiotic ("Indonesia? Never knew anyone from Indonesia?" Half kidding).
The emotional reaction to the news is normal. You are shown professionally made footage of a serious disaster, it's normal too think "poor people", "I am so happy to be alive with my family here", "I once met a guy from China, I wonder how's he" (many people don't know geography well), etc. The images are supposed to evoke an emotional reaction. But, as you correctly point out, the real question is what do you do after that.
And my view is that if you choose to
a) watch more news about essentially the same story, which is totally irrelevant to you
b) talk to people about how horrible it is
c) act as if you care (even if you really believe it)
d) act as if this is important
then you are being more and more idiotic. Of course, it's still not idiotic enough to meet the clinical definition of idiocy, but more than enough to be called an idiot in the common sense by me.
Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
The Maldives is a special case. However, all you'd have to do there, would be to get out onto the deep ocean.
Anyhow - a normal relatively healthy human being can move somthing like 6 kilometers/hour on a sustained level for hours, and more like 10 if they really have to. Thus - even if you don't have enough vehicles for everyone, then half an hour or even 15 minutes of early warning would allow a substantial number of people to escape physical harm.
Stop the brainwash
Basically, it says "THERE IS NO TSUNAMI WARNING OR WATCH IN EFFECT.".
Yes, of course, there was no tsunami in the region this warning center is responsible for. But who writes these reports? Is it sensible to just write "no tsunami warning", without specifying that it's a different story on the other side, in the Indian ocean? Wouldn't people writing these reports be supposed to be aware of it?
Anyway, that report, while it may be technically correct for it's region, sounds really weird to me.
Since the link is for the "latest report", and will change over time, here is the complete text of that page:
I am saying that the idiocy of our reactions IS a simple monotonic function, A function of what? simple monotonic function, not a boolean one You meant continuous function? c) act as if you care (even if you really believe it) What is exactly the difference between caring and believing that you care ?
"CSI Miami (a US TV show) had a tsunami hit Florida in the program."
:)
Unfortunately, due to the depth of the water between Miami and the Bahamas it is impossible to have a tsunami hit Miami. It might hit the Bahamas instead (depending on water depth). We might have a high tide, and/or rising water, but nothing like a tsunami.
Just in case anyone was wondering... It's *just* a TV show
Let's be realistic, shall we? All other things equal, a life of a less educated person is worth less than of a more educated one. I am aware that many people were programmed to think otherwise, and there is not much I can do about it (to explain why they are wrong requires personal contact and a few hours of my time), but I hope you are not one of them.
I would like to understand what you are saying.
For the sake of this discussion, let us assume that I have Ph.D. in physics and you don't. Are you saying your life (as a life of a "less educated person") is worth less?
A function of what? :) There is a large set of possible reactions, from completely ignoring that story to jumping out of the window (it's not 1-dimensional, to be honest, so it can't be easily monotonic, but I conviniently ignore that). For each possible reaction there is a value of idiocy. My point is that there are more than two possible values. And, generally, the more intensive the reaction to a story, which is not particularly important in a grand scheme of things and which has no relevance to your personal life is, the more idiotic it is.
You meant continuous function?
A function of our emotional reactions.
What is exactly the difference between caring and believing that you care ?
Acting. Caring implies certain real actions. If you care about the victims, you do something, the most obvious actions being to send them blankets, food, money, etc. If you don't do anything, you don't actually care.
Simple emotional reaction is natural. But just because I gross out seeing a dog hit by a truck doesn't mean that I care. If I took it home or buried it near the road (assuming it's dead, of course), that would be a sign that I cared. If I just stand there, stare, say "poor doggie" and then go away, I don't care, I just pretend I do or believe I do.
Many people pretend they care, but they don't do anything. And as they apparently seem to care about every major story pushed by TV (they care about Yushchenko as much as about quake victims), I suspect that don't care about any story, but are just conditioned to express certain reactions when seeing something on TV.
Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
I'm very sad for the loss of all those souls. We are living interesting times.
Events like this one reminds me of the HAARP project and other electromagnetic weapons to alter the weather and generate eathquakes on demand.
Who?
Anyone opposed to the rise of Asia. I would have to guess USA, UK-USA, etc. Remember you have a mad man in the white house.
Why would a nation of peace loving citizens want to make such thing?
There's a war with China planned to occur in this decade 2006-2010. By that time, China would be the 2nd superpower, and USA won't simply seat to watch it become nro 1. Odds tell that the main part of Asia will follow China.
We are now in the early stages of this war, the preparation. One just don't get munition built from morning to evening, one has to plan for war.
So, by generating and earthquake in the pacific, USA would acchieve 2 things. Make the future enemy spend time and money in reconstruction instead of preparation. And, possibly, take out some objetives in the way.
Conspiracy theory? Sure. Power changes hands not because of elections and forseenable methods but succesfully executed, secret plans.
May you live interesting times - Old Chinesse Curse
Well, probably not in Florida, but keep in mind that there are mountains in southern Arizona exceeding 10,000 feet elevation. I assure you they do get blizzards. Even the lower elevations can get a surprising amount of snow. I've seen 6 inches of snow in Tucson.
Too much Law; not enough Order.
Not according the the USGS. There were no major earthquakes in Japan that year. http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/eq_depot/2002/
And were Ms. Zafuto and Ms. Myrick heathens and killed three days before Christmas in Paso Robles, CA in 2003?
So, you really only have one prior data point, that of Bam, Iran in 2003 (which was on the 26th, also)
I can not and will not challenge your belief, but if you wish to support your belief with "facts", at least verify them first.
Initial estimates 12,000 souls dead and rising, plus over 1 million displaced or affected.
I am watching horrific news footage from Sri Lanka, Aceh (Indonesia) and Thailand on TVRI Berita Pagi (Indonesian news service) & SBS.
We are all one family of human beings - imagine it is your house, your brothers and sisters. I've lived in Indonesian archipelago for example and know how gentle, kind and loving these people are.
Please help by donating here http://www.careaustralia.org.au/donate_now.asp, here http://www.redcross.org/, or another organisation who can assist.
The average income in most of these places is just a few dollars a day (and often less) - so anything you do will help a lot!
I live in a typically selfish and miserly 'first world' country that shares an embarassing 0.25% of GDP on foreign aid. Please help fellow citizens and our governments wake up to this so we can all live in a safer, more compassionate and peaceful world. Capitalism and free markets can only go so far - human life and the environment are priceless - and most valuable of all.
Assuming all else is equal, yes. My life (since I don't have a Ph.D. yet) would be worth less.
It's possible to argue for this using a number of rather simple thought experiments, first persuading you that it is possible for two lifes to have different values, second persuading you that generally the better the person is (in any accepted regard), the more valuable his life is to rational people, and third, using this principle in a particular example.
I know from experience that many people have a number of emotional blocks that prevent them from easily accepting this argument. I don't know how simple or difficult would that be for you, though.
Of course, there are lot of side tasks as well, such as defining what "valuable" means, deciding who is qualified to make such decisions, etc.
Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
All other things equal, a life of a less educated person is worth less than of a more educated one. To whom? By what possible standard?
To me, level of education (which is mostly brainwashing and programming) is one of the least important aspects of a person. The two most important are (raw) intelligence and looks. A smart person can learn anything they want and be hyper-productive in that task. Someone with low intelligence can never be more than a trained monkey, maybe good at repetitive tasks but never innovative. Of course we all value good-looking people (of the opposite sex) whether we admit it or not. They are inherently valuable.
When I think of this tragedy I imagine all the hot Asian chicks who may have perished needlessly. Their pretty bodies are of no good to us dead (mainly because they start to decay).
...clear lack of imagination. Huh. sounds like the sept. 11 report.
To all of you who may doubt the military supremacy of the United States of America, this was just a warning. The next time it will be far worse, affecting more than just coastal areas. This is just one of our newer weapon system tests. You shall all bow before us and swear your allegiance before our flag or you shall all drown in more of these "natural" disasters.
Our goal is nothing short of complete unequivocal world domination. Your terms of surrender will not be negotiable. They will include abiding by the DMCA and all of our copyright laws as well as the establishment of the death penalty (without trial) for all alleged sexual activity or disrespect of our peace officers.
You have been warned. The rest is up to you.
[Note: the Japanese, Taiwanese, Chinese, Canadians, British, and French are excluded from this warning for various reasons]
I know from experience that many people have a number of emotional blocks that prevent them from easily accepting this argument. I don't know how simple or difficult would that be for you, though.
:). Are you sure "emotional blocks" are not just your rationalizations for justifying to yourself why so many people disagree with you?
:) How do you grade people? Color of their skin, color of their hair, Height? Intelligence?
How very convenient
You can certainly single out one specific criterion and asign a person's "value" according to that particular criterion, but I would immediately provide several other criteria incompatible with yours. Who is to say that yours is better than mine? For all we know I have Ph.D. and you don't
Strength? Beauty? How do you measure intelligence? Or beauty? If one has greater IQ than Feynman, does it mean his impact on the mankind will be larger? Was Feynman a great benefactor to mankind? Or he was a part of the team that created nuclear bomb that might ultimately destroy intelligent(your criterion) life as we know it? You must be a happy person if you know the answers.
I have a feeling that you are, but nevertheless I would like to remind you that you are not the first to come up with the idea of proclaiming that some people are better than others. You would easily come up with numerous examples from history. From Sparta to Nazies to danila. Nazies, you know, also had very "scientifically" rationalized arguments about how some races (slavs, for example) are inferior to others (germans). You will probably agree with me that the underlying motive was "I am a german, and everyone who is not german is worth less". The rest was just rationalization. Are you sure you don't fall into the same trap? "I am intellectual, therefore everyoine who is not, is worth less?"
You don't think that all similar theories in the course of history failed to find the magically absolutely undisputably correct criterion, and you came up with it?
There is no single absolute criterion, of course, and there cannot be. People are not 1D objects, as you would seem to suggest.
If you are claiming "only" 40 feet high, it is apparent you have never been caught inside by an ocean wave even half that size. The power of a normal, storm-created wave 40 feet high is simply awesome. Given the fact that storm waves travel at a fraction of the speed of tsunami, these waves must have been powerful indeed.
No Inflation Taxation without Representation
welcome to real life, gnu hippies
I heard about the quake on the news, but it felt different when I read the following on one of the mailing lists I'm on. Maybe someone has a good God that can loan Undine an Iridium phone or something similar for long enough to call home.
Tag lost or not installed.
It's been revised upwards to a magnitute of 9.0 now. But, that's not my main point. I wish you hadn't made the above post as an AC. Yours has been one of the best made on this topic and you should let your fellow /.'s get to know you are.
civilization is chaos taking a rest
This is Bush's fault! We all know it's true! Everything is Bush's fucking fault! You neofuckingcon bastards can suck my cock! I SEE the truth! It's all Bush's fault! How can 51% of America be so fucking stupid?! It's clearly Bush's fucking fault!
With rationality like this, why did our side loose to Bush? IT'S BUSH'S FUCKING FAULT, THAT'S WHY!
That's right: God is punishing Indonesia, India, Sri Lanka, and Thailand for a crime committed by a dozen Arabs in the north-eastern US, because he has no better grasp on geography, morality, or rationality than the red-necks who have such immediate insight into his intentions and workings.
The BBC's map of affected areas suggests that Bangladesh escaped damage.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/4126019.stm
This seems odd, because Bangladesh is a notably low-lying country, in a river delta/flood plain, densely populated, and with a history of devastation by tsunamis and flooding.
In 1991, apparently, 138,000 Bangladeshis were killed by a tsunami.
If the BBC is correct, then it seems to be the only nation in the region that escaped serious damage.
Anyone want to venture a guess as to why this would be?
I hope this is true - the alternative explanation would be that the whole country was so completely wiped out that word never got out, and nobody else noticed them missing.
September 2011: Looking for Cocoa/iOS work in Boston area Cocoa Programmer Quincy, MA
I first heard about it close to 12:00M PST while surfing.
What was interesting was the news coverage the next morning (disclaimer: I woke up at @ 9:00). Wolf Blitzer was going off about the 10 top news-worthy things in 04 (of course 9 of them had to do with the US), Paula Zahn went off about some reverend making boatloads of money off of G and there wasnt even an obligatory mention (screen-bottom tickers don't count) of an event that resulted in (unofficial) a deathtoll close to 11,500 (last BBC estimate). The only place I got to see anything about it on TV was an obscure (to me at least) channel called News World Intl. (366 on DirectTV) where CBC and then something called the German Journal talked about this most of the time. Of course the BBC was kind enough to provide a lo-rez video feed, but I still dont understand the complete glossing over of such an incident. Is it that unless americans die, the american media wont cover it? Seems foolhardy... but then it is the US. Nothing's unexpected. And of course I still dont know why the BBC World service is not available in the US.
--
Why waste time learning, when ignorance is instantaneous? -- Calvin (Bill Watterson)
I'd say that's by far the most sensational article I could find on the subject, and the exaggeration in that article is exceeded only by the 'devastation reeked' by the author's command of grammar.
Even a non-technical journalist should be expected to do better than reporting outcomes involving waves several times higher than the worst-case scenario considered in the relevant research.
Admittedly, the prospect of the worst-case 20m tsunami hitting most of the East Coast is rather fearsome, but it also relies on a currently-inactive volcano triggering a ~500 cubic kilometer landslide.
The estimate of the potential size of the landslide is based on very limited information. I'd say they're trolling for grant money, and it's certainly not something that most people should be worried about at this point.
"We have to go forth and crush every world view that doesn't believe in tolerance and free speech." - David Brin
In fact, about 50% of people in northern sumatra province (indonesia) are Christians.
I was surprised that the article did not mention anything about Malaysia. The Tsunami also affected 3 states in the north of Malaysia (Penang, Kedah and Perlis bordering Thailand) which are roughly 300 to 400 kilometers away from the epicenter.
The death toll is estimated in the hundreds although at the time of writing there doesnt seem to be any official count. The aftershocks were felt as far down as Kuala Lumpur (600+ kilometers away from the epicenter and about 50 kilometers away from the coast).
There were tremors felt as far away as Kuantan (700+ km from epicenter) which is on the east coast of the Malaysian peninsula facing the south china sea! Many hotels and apartment buildings were evacuated as a result of this.
Danila writes, " I must admit that I didn't follow the news very closely..."
Enough said.
It's more than 14,000 deaths.
It's millions of people homeless.
Have you ever slept rough? I haven't, but I've come close enough to appreciate how bad it is.
It's untold damage to water systems. That story hasn't come out yet.
As to why it matters: these is a humans vs nature story. We humans use engineering to defend ourselves against the depredations of nature like this. When I read these stories, I think: if the people in Indonesia and Thailand and Myanmar and Bangladesh and India had better engineering, fewer lives would be lost and ruined.
I was surfing. I took the wave. I'm alive. No choice. Bye Dudes
I know it's morbid curiosity, but I wonder if this disaster has affected the communication systems used for call centers in India. Do they use satellite? undersea cables? Do they come from the east or the west? (I'm too lazy to look it up at the moment) Even if the lines are not physically affected I suspect the traffic on them has skyrocketed.
As time goes by the destructive force of earthquakes, volcanoes and storms are unlikely to change, but what has changed and changing is the increasing number of people that can be affected by such events.
It'll be days before we know the true cost in human lives not to mention economically. The estimates of dead keep going up, but I wouldn't be surprised if it goes down. One can only hope. With so many people living on the edge in Southeast Asia, literally, it'll be a long time before many of the areas recover.
"You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
too bad you weren't right in the path of the tsunami. it would have considerably improved the IQ of both the world and your country. you might want to check out the predominant religions in the hardest hit countries
.... what I want to know about..are these Quake and Tsunami games that were so much more devestaing than DOOM?
Well, at least I've heard of Quake before...
There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Hope they had their scuba gear on when the Big one came ...
.. especially if they were on an economy package which puts you around 2-3 kms away from the beach.
:)
Don't worry - they'll be back
Only the Really Rich and the Really Poor can live on the beach
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur
Just because it happened to the cream of America's corporate structure doesn't make 9/11 horrifying... It's not the body count ... It was not a tragedy - it was an act of malicious intent by a group of people - who had to kill thousands of people to be taken seriously !!. That's what's HORRIFYING about it.
...
The relative significance of human tragedies are indeed ranked by the percentage of human population wiped out. A life is a life , no matter who they are (primitive savages or corporate executives). If you want to compare the Tungska meteorite with the flash tide flood in Chennai - I'd think the latter deserves more of our concern
As a species , we should grieve the loss of valuable genetic diversity - It's something that comes naturally to any creature of sufficent intelligence (look at some elephants in Periyar , they literally cry over year old bones).
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur
I know these are emotional blocks, because I can clearly see that the reaction to my arguments is irrational and coincides with an excited emotional state. People don't take what I say clamly, but instead offer completely irrational rebuttals such as "Hitler would surely agree" and stuff. :) I'm not saying your metion of the Nazis means you are incapable of rational thought, just that it's (a) typical (b) badly thought argument.
I wanted you to agree first that it's possible to judge the worthiness (value) of people, who only differ in one particular respect. That's the necessary step. For example, that I would be less valuable/less worthy if I didn't have a Ph.D. and you did, all else being equal.
Assuming you agreed with that, we could proceed to the next step - arguing that it's often possible to confidently judge who is more valuable out of two people, who are different in several respects. Here is the gist of the argument:
a) we can't always make a perfectly correct decision, but we can often be reasonably sure, although there are cases where we can't decide
b) we can't take into account every minute of their lives, but this doesn't make our judgements completely worthless
c) the list of relevant qualities and their weights are determined using expert estimates, where any intelligent, rational and ethical person is an expert
d) even though seveal "experts" would likely provide two different lists and different weights for qualities, there are many cases (see (a)) where all of them will make the same decision
e) it's not necessary in practice to provide quantitative metrics of people's qualities in order to judge them. You can say that Claudia Schiffer is more beautiful than some dirty crackwhore from the gutter without using a "beautymeter". Even though you can't easily compare her with, say, Halle Berry
A good illustration is valuing the material objects. Can you say "Painting A is better than painting B" (or "computer A is better than computer B")? Yes, there are painting that you can't compare, but there are some that you can.
With humans we can start with Hitler (why not?) and Ghandi. Can you say one is more valuable (worthy) than another? Of course, you can be stubborn and insist that you can't say that, but I think you, just like any reasonable person, would agree that we can compare those two. Then we should move to more interesting real-life pairs and conclude that there actually is a possibility of comparing two people's values. We probably can't judge controversial people (Feynman's involvement in the Manhattan project was, IMO, sufficiently small to make him "not evil enough" to be controversial), but most of people aren't really very controversial.
The third step is to understand that even when we can't compare individual people because we lack the necessary information, we can still make probabilistical estimates of who would be more valuable. That is the same as comparing a number of people from one sample with a number of people from another sample.
After that we are all set. The lemmas "proven" (or at least agreed upon) above are sufficient to make the final statement - that those who died in this disaster are probably less valuable on average than (for example) the same number of people who live in Holland.
It's worth noting that while there may be many human classification schemes that are wrong, that does not preclude the possibility of there being some good schemes. Of course, if you develop a good scheme, for obvious reasons it won't be applicable to every pair of humans. But it should still probably work well enough for many pairs.
I am also not suggesting in any way that humans can all be plotted on one axis. What I am saying is that for every combination of a pair humans and a valid classification scheme there exists a value between 0 and 1, which is a probability of a given scheme saying that person A is more valuable than person B. And for certain pairs of people a sufficiently large number of valid classification schemes have corresponding values close enough to 1 (or a sufficiently large number have values close to 0). Hope this isn't too complicated for you. Assuming you have a Ph.D. in physics it shouldn't be.
Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
A scientist will be able to recognise that a dangerous event has ocurred. I guess the real problem is who does the scientist call to ensure that word is spread. You are quite right about bureacracy, as there need to be a system that ensures reports are taken seriously and acted upon.
Unlike the Pacific, the Bay of Bengal/Anderman sea is much less active, and this was practically the only major fault. India is still prone to some earthquakes (major plate boundary in the North), but these are not undersea.
See my journal, I write things there
welcome to real life, gnu hippies
Ah. You're one of those "Reaganesque rugged individuals", aren't you? A John Wayne wannabe? With fists of steel and diamonds in your eyes?
Bwaaaaahahaaahhaahaaahaaa!
My role is to be a bomb-throwing anarchist; the neural configuration was more suited for such an egregore.
What is so mysterious about the earthquake and the subsequent tidal wave? Cannot it be predicted earlier and the people be warned of it? Could necessary precautions be taken to minimise the loss to life and property? In fact, the quake was actually predicted by a team of research scholars of the Department of Applied Geology, University of Madras, with a permissible error, a week ago.
N Venkatanathan, research scholar, who is currently undergoing a Ph.D programme in Predicting Earthquake and Aseismic Construction Designing and the man behind the team working on predictions, said he had already presented a report about the Indonesian earthquake on 22 December to members of the Department of Science and Technology, New Delhi.
The 15-member team headed by S K Tandan were in Chennai at that time for a meeting.
Venkatanathan, said, 'we predicted that the disaster will occur on 26 December 2004 at 00:30 (GMT) with 3.54 N latitude and 97.17E longitude, which is located near the coast of Banyak Island, Sumatra, Indonesia, with a magnitude at around 6 to 7. The actual calamity occurred on 26 December 2004 at 00:58 (GMT), with 3.298 N latitude and 95.779 E longitude, located off the west coast of northern Sumatra'.
Read the story here
http://newstodaynet.com/27DEC/SS6.HTM/
Yes thanks, I think I will definitely call you paranoid: If you look at a world map, you may notice that Aceh is pretty far from China. Pretty damn far.
:-)
And even if you think Indonesia is capable of becoming a world power, Aceh is not where you would want to strike. You would want to *strengthen* the Acehnese insurgency then.
And both those scenarios are only if you think electro-seismo-whatever weapons are actually possible. They probably aren't, or the intelligent people here on slashdot would be having a discussion of how they work.
So yeah, you are definitely insanely paranoid. Thanks for the permission to call you that.
Really? Devastated social life??
In my experience quakes are pretty good for the social life. Societies come together in the face of trauma like that. Where were you?
In a reply to both siblings. You are probably right, this is not specifically geek news. Maybe we should alter the story tital to "Tidal waves seek out and kills hundreds of computer users and destroy thousands of computers. Oh and 20000 poor people died." No that would be too cynical.
My main point though is wether or not the incident is natural or man made the story matters. The geek side comes in all over. This will probably see major tech spending on new facilities and warning systems. New research into quake prediction (if the Indian scientist was correctly predicting to within a short distance and less than a half hour then someone is about to throw money at him). There was likely a number of readers of slashdot killed by this ( with a million+ readers, someone was almst certainly in the area ). Geeks also dig, big natural disasters like volcanoes earthquakes etc, so that makes it geeky as well. Good grief the ultimate geek bit is the fact a worker from the special effects team of the LOTR's was in the area and unheard from so far.
Now as to the apple and oranges excuse as to why 911 was news for geeks (with numerous articles spread over weeks) and this isn't. I personally think it is pretty close to nationalist relativism or possibly even racism. Complaining about one story on a big disaster (which is at least 8 times worse in lives lost and 500 times worse in people directly effected and probably 5 times worse in monetary damage) while trying to justify the stories about a smaller disaster ( with just as little geekiness) appears simply wrong, and suggests ulterior motives.
In related news, tech support is closed!
"all else being equal"
Although assumptions can simpify the construction of model or theory, too many assumptions would just made the model/theory useless -- you can't use it to explain the real world.
This assumption is just the first step. People hold wrong beliefs about the world. One such common belief is that you can't say that one person is better (more valuable, more worthy) than another. This is wrong, but to demonstrate that it is necessary to use this simplier model.
Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
COMEDY = Violence to you
TRAGEDY = Violence to me
Well, Islam is an older religion so perhaps.. the Gods have tallied up enough crimes for this disaster to happen.. Wait until the God is done counting the crimes committed by Christianity.. I just hope I am not punished accidentally for being an atheist.
Here is a home video of the wave crashing into the beach of Patong.
...what if there were no rhetorical questions?
Who can explain to me why the evidence that is available does not without any doubt leave open the option of this being a meteorite impact ? Wouldn't it present with the exact same things:
Tsunami
Earthquake like effects
Sudden onset ???
Slashdot: stuff for news, nerds that matter, matter for news, stuff that nerd
And they still haven't reached the hardest hit areas on the other islands of the Maldives and a couple of islands belonging to India just west of Myanmar (Burma).
> Not only that, but it should have been modded down anyway for being in bad taste.
No, it should not. "Taste" is purely subjective. Your initial analysis was correct, though.
Your scheme is unnecessarily complicated: The number of people is finite, and therefore you can certainly order them. The question is how and why?
Returning to your "proof", step one already contains logical flaws: you can propose a scheme for the people who differ in one respect, but it would not be accepted by all people, and it would sure as hell would not mean anything. Two people who differ only by color of their hair. Who is more valuable? If your answer is they are equal, then please realize that the vast majority of people on Earth would not actually care if one has Ph.D. or not just like you don't care about the color of their hair. I certainly don't when I judge people. Just because you don't have it yet, and you surround PhD with a magical aura, it is just a piece of paper.
You can say "painting A is better than B" only within a certain context and if we agreed on criteria. Is Black Square a good painting? Many people seem to think so. Do you think the modern abstract art would be appreciated by art experts in 17th or 18th centuries?
Same with computers: you can say that A is better than B only within specific context. If you are alone on an uninhabited island, you need a hammer and all you have is a computer, then the relevant criteria certainly different from what you meant to suggest. This is exagerration, but you can certainly think of many other examples.
Same with Hitler and Ghandi, you and I can agree that Ghandi is more valuable, but then again, there are many who would not.
Replace "Feynman" with "Oppenheimer" or any other physicist you think played essential role in Manhatten project.
What do you do when some classification schemes put a person close to 0, while others put him close to 1? Again, returning to Nazies: they certainly would put Hitler very close to 1, while you seem to think that he is close to 0. Or, take many Jewish scientists, musicians, doctors etc. Nazies would place them close to 0, would you?
Do you seriously think that classifications schemes for an average arab are the same as for an average american?
By now we have spent too much time on this argument, and I don't see a reason to continue.
You seem to have a classification scheme that you think is representative for a certain class of "rational" people. You are convinced that according to your scheme you are near the top of the food chain and due to your education you are very important to humanity. I don't see any reason to argue otherwise.I just don't understand why is it useful, and why everybody else should care about it.
I thought a lot about you yesterday.
;)
I am sure that your on line free encyclopedia is wonderful and all.
However, I still feel that you should temper your posts and respect the tone of the topic.
You say that your signature is always to go to this particular website. I think you are not being honest, though please correct me if I am wrong.
It seems to be that you must have cooked up a way to use mod points to self-promote, which I am sure makes you very cleaver. And I appluad you.
However, it does not get past the point that your post contributed nothing to the discussion except to compel people to use your site.
Also, I really doubt that you have always used the signature that you say you had because it would always be the same, instead of always including a mention of the topic at hand.
So, I don't want to start a war with you, but only hope that you will realize how tasteless it is to always see the self-promotion of such sites as yours always on slash-dot.
If you had written anything real or posted your encyclopedia's entry here, then that would be fine that your signature directs people to that site. However, admit it, you didn't have anything to say. It was just what you say is your signature.
My quess is that you have a spider that always checks for the topic and creates your post.
And I find it curious that you are always modded up as informative. You provided no information but just a link. Don't you think anyone could just google 'tsumani' and get to your site?
So can you understand how this can bother me?
The whole world should not always be about self-promotion.
Modesty is a better policy.
Best of luck with your on-line encyclopedia.
But please, when there is real human tragedy, do you have to always make it about your site?
It reminds me of when I put 'human slave' into Alta Vista and it spit back:
'Buy human slaves at '
Best of luck with your marketting, but try compassion and not so much shameless promotion.
I just don't understand why is it useful, and why everybody else should care about it.
Nobody has to care about it, it's just a simple explanation of why I am justified in saying "Those 2000 people lived in shitty houses, so it's likely their deaths is no big deal on the planetary scale".
You can play with the logic all day long, but in the end I don't think a significant number of Terrans would say "It'd better we had this earthquake in the North Sea instead so that an equivalent number of Swedes, Brittons and Dutch died".
Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
The likelihood of this happening in that part of the world was tremendously small, add to that the magnitude (I truly think you don;t understand what a 8.9 in the Richter scale truly means) and we have one in a millions chances of such horrendous thing happening.
To invest too much preventing an unlikely event is foolish.
In spite of that, the goverments in the region were looking into an alert system, having said that it would have saved nobody in Thailand, Indonesia or Malaysia given the closeness of the epicenter.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
If we don't measure somehow tragedies (body count is a hell of a good estimate, since at least is measuring the human impact) then we can't know the size of the necessary response.
You may find it sickening, but it is necessary to get organized.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
If their work is to warn about tsunamis in the Pacific basin, with all due respect that frankly you don't deserve, why should they warn about tsunamis somewhere else?
Ditto with early warning systems for earthquakes, tornados, flooding, etc. They had a job to do, they did it well, and it is only uninformed nitpickers (rated as "informative") that find fault on this....
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
I believe some mathematicians demonstrated that the longest chain necessary of people that know each other between you and any other person in the world would have 6 people at most.
In my case I have the following chains:
Me - dad - his boss - President of Mexico (1960) - John F. Kennedy.
Or a shorter one:
Me - University teacher (in Mexico City) - Noam Chomsky...
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
As opposed to significant number of Terrans saying
otherwise? Don't forget to include in your poll Indians and Chinese.
"We don't have contacts in our address book for anybody in that part of the world."
What about ... the American Embassy in the affected countries?!?!
Yeah, and that 'aid' includes cheap windows licences and all. Just fantastic. Why don't we include the Iraq war as aid while we're at it?
Really, the amount of aid the US gives is nothing special compared to other western countries.
(I love the US, but please, stop lying to show how good we are)
A large asteroid crashing into the ocean would cause a tsunami. (Think of the rings of water when you toss a pebble into a pond.) An underwater volcanic eruption could cause a tsunami. Tsunamis are caused by displacement.
Julia Cameron
Oich ù agus hiùraibh éile
danila (69889): OK, so 10000 people died. Big fucking deal.
It's not just the death toll, which seems likely to rise beyond 100,000. It's the total destruction of infrastructure and housing, the injuries, the loss of livelihood, the diseases that will follow with so many dead. The deaths are a tragedy, but the survivors are the ones who must now go through hell.
To be succinct: You're a fucked in the head sociopathic asshole. Seek help.
Some people are like slinkies--basically useless but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs.
They are not mentioned anywhere, because communication equipment is swept into the sea, or because nothing happened? I'm interested because I went on holiday in the Seychelles a few years ago. It's a beautiful place with friendly people.
Does anybody have any news on these island nations?
danila (69889): But there is no reason to care about 10000 dead, because this is not news at all. Especially since most of the people killed are probably uneducated simple-minded folks, who lived in shitty houses.
It has been said by many that the character of a man can be most easily understood by how he treats those who he considers beneath himself.
It's true.
I hope you can overcome your apparent sociopathic illness and learn compassion.
Some people are like slinkies--basically useless but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs.
AC: What I hate most about the evangelist moron wing of the christian faith is that they cant be bothered to even understand their own faith
Couldn't agree more. The only thing I'd like to add is that extremists from other religions are the same -- Islam is not a violent religion like the extremist nutcases make out to be either.
Some people are like slinkies--basically useless but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs.
My favorite "blame-America" argument so far goes like this: The U.S. gives only a small amount of its GDP in foreign aid. The the Netherlands, they give 10 times as much.
What a load of crap! The U.S. is in fact the largest dollar donor in the world. The reason we don't go by GDP is that the US is very, very opposed to taxation (unlike the EU, which is largely socialist). And this does not even begin to count the amount of private donations (enabled by low taxes) that are not counted in government spending.
Note that the people who are complaining about the amount of U.S. aid are large bureaucracies, like UNICEF. Of course they want more "taxes", since UNICEF's gets to spend the money, and the American government has to pay.
Instead, what the U.S. does is give the largest amount worldwide in dollars of any country. AND since taxes are low, many, many citizens donate private monies to charities that they support. (Sorry, I don't throw my money away on large bureaucratic EU-style charities. I give to small groups where (a) the spending budgets are public, unlike UNICEF, and (b) most of the money goes to help others, instead paying New York salaries for UNICEF workers.
Google News is your friend ...
Google News for Maldives
Google News for Seychelles
From www.clarkefoundation.org/projects, regarding "Project Warn", which the Clarke Foundation participates in:
...to carry out a suitable test and demonstration in this area. In particular a simulation and test is being planned in the Pacific Region in 2005 to determine to how to use the latest information and sensing technology more effectively in the advent of that a major Tsunami might impact an Asian country or island. Clarke Foundation personnel are providing technical advice and support on a volunteer basis to this project."
"The purpose of Project Warn is combine enhanced communications and IT systems to provide warning of impending natural or man-made disasters and to provide on-going communications and remote sensing and GIS support during disaster relief operations. The Clarke Foundation is working
Some Indians and other south asian bloggers have formed a blog tsunamihelp.blogspot.com which provides the latest information on the mishap, agencies involved in support of victims, helpline numbers and places where donations can me made.
Well, if only one could exist...
About the philosophical problem of evil though; I think it's possible to postulate a God who is omniscient, omnipotent and compassionate at the same time, by introducing the concept of voluntary non-interference with the freedom to choose of humans and the customs (some call them laws) of nature.
The question is really, if God knows all and can do all, why didn't He intervene? I think the answer is, he can, but often the order of nature and our freedom is worth more to him than the disasters that happen.
If as a species we only could be saved by God taking away our freedom of choice and reducing us to mere angels, who have no choice but to obey God, then that would be pretty sad, and I for one am rather human, despite all the suffering that occurs due to human actions, than a creature that lacks the unique responsibility that comes with this life.
Cheers,
Emile.
All generalizations are false, including this one. (Mark Twain)
Video here; high bandwidth server, no worries. 4 different videos. Amazing footage.
Yeah, those are all vertical movements. Do all earthquakes (in the ocean) cause tsunamis?
Vulgar? Certainly.
Funny? Not hilarious, but whatever.
Obvious? Possibly.
Troll? No fucking way Jose.
I suppose modding like a twat will show how sincere your pain is. Bleeding heart? Bleeding arse more like.
1/3 of jokes get modded OT. If you get the joke, mod 1 in 3 insightful/interesting/underrated to restore karma balance.
btw, something similar could happen in the North Atlantic as well, but the last time it happened was 1755 (Lisbon earthquake, 60000 victims), i.e. 250 years ago. How much would you be willing to spend because something like that could happen again?
I seriously doubt other Christians would share your view.
Sigh. . . You're quite wrong. Kind of sad really.
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I thought I'd post an update.
Tag lost or not installed.
http://diabloheat.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file =viewtopic&t=235
also here are some direct links to the videos
http://kyle.theocsucks.com/modules.php?name=Downlo ads&d_op=getit&lid=10 o ads&d_op=getit&lid=8 o ads&d_op=getit&lid=11 o ads&d_op=getit&lid=9 o ads&d_op=getit&lid=7
http://kyle.theocsucks.com/modules.php?name=Downl
http://kyle.theocsucks.com/modules.php?name=Downl
http://kyle.theocsucks.com/modules.php?name=Downl
http://kyle.theocsucks.com/modules.php?name=Downl
http://DiabloHeat.com | http://Kyle.TheOCSucks.com | http://TheOCSucks.com
It must be because of the name of the city...
No.
Julia Cameron
Oich ù agus hiùraibh éile
I've searched the various seismic databases and noticed the beachball plot of the 9.0 magnitude earthquake was inverted from large magnitude earthquakes.
Can anyone identify a seismograph plot of an actual asteroid impact? Both Torsional and Compressional plots would be quite useful (T-wave and P-Waves).