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Jay Z was of course talking about commercial radio, and he's totally right. Or so I believe... I can't remember the last time I willingly listened to commercial radio.

There are commercial-free radio stations that actually care about music (and the musicians, and the listeners), and aren't beholden to advertisers.

Of course, as has been the case for decades, there are still lots of good low-power college radio stations, with their ever-changing formats. The downside there is that you never know sort of music you're going to hear without looking at the schedule, and the format's going to change within a few hours when the next DJ comes on.

But I know of at least two commercial-free music radio stations in the US which play an amazing variety of music, new, old, popular and--most importantly--the unknown and/or obscure... and with a similar mix of music throughout the day on most weekdays.

I'm proud to be a founding member of Minnesota Public Radio's KCMP "The Current", going strong after over a decade. I no longer live in Minnesota but still listen. However, the station I now listen most often to is KEXP "Where the Music Matters". Aside from the fact that their proximity to Redmond means they're to cause things like their online playlist being crippled (relies on Azure I guess)

I've discovered SO much new music (and some old) from both of those stations, both of which stream their broadcasts 24/7.

Even in my city the local NPR affiliate has a commercial-free music channel, though currently it's only available on HD radio (or the web). Similar mix of music to the others, but with more emphasis on local artists.

And local bars don't have live music anymore because local bands aren't allowed on the radio.

I don't know where you live, but in Seattle there are three *pages* of live shows for *today* [1] and five *pages* of live shows for *this weekend* [2]. Granted that is both for bars and larger venues, but the vast majority are small local bars.

As to local bands not allowed on the radio?! There are plenty of radio stations that cater to music lovers and absolutely do play local bands. One of several Seattle (again, I live here; I don't think Seattle is unique) is KEXP. They even have an article on how to get airplay on KEXP [3]. While it's a local station, I know many of their listeners are from beyond the city limits so getting airplay on such a local station can have wider-ranging effects for an up-and-coming band.

I guess what "local" bars offer depends on locale but generally higher-population areas sustain more arts. That's always been the case, though. Artists and patrons congregate.

[1] http://www.thestranger.com/gyr...
[2] http://www.thestranger.com/gyr...
[3] http://blog.kexp.org/2011/08/0...

Give KEXP a try. It's the closest replacement that I've found.

True, but does rationalizing necessarily equate to committing the crime?

If you say "I committed a crime, but it's ok because..." then yes, that does equate to committing a crime. It takes some amazing mental acrobatics to get around that.

As to the rest of your post, people always pretend like they buy more music because of piracy. I used to use that excuse myself. And that's precisely why I know it's untrue. The ability to get something for free decreases your willingness to pay for it. Simple as that.

If indie artists want you to experience their music for free, they'll let you. Taking it against their will, and then acting like they should thank you for it is just absurd.

If you want to *legally* expose yourself to music outside the mainstream, might I suggest listening to independent radio, on air or online? Try KEXP.

http://kexp.org/Default.aspx

But the term "generous" is not correct...
How can giving away millions of dollars not generous? When you have thousands of times that amount and giving it away has zero impact on your ability to live.

...let's look at what it is in a realistic light.

Try http://www.kexp.org/. In my opinion good music coming out of Seattle (90.3 FM for the locals), but even if the music is not perfect for you it's fully DJ driven at a personal level.

Really? Then how come, say, KEXP, a non-profit public radio station, says that they would have to spend "six figures" more in licensing costs effective July 15th.

This affects even non-profits with existing terrestrial broadcast licenses.

Again, this is why NPR is a major player in this: the "breaks" given to non-profits are insufficient, and will still cost them millions. There are breaks for simulcast.

To be honest, I can't remember the last time I listened to "the radio".

Especially commercial radio. There's nothing out there that's worth listening to (thank you ClearChannel). And I don't need commercial radio for news -- NPR and the Internet fill that gap very nicely.

(If you like talk radio, well, whatever, that's your business. I always found it an annoying waste of time, regardless of the show.)

In fact, the only radio station I listen to these days is on the other side of my current continent. It's as non-commercial as they get, and I get my fix through streaming and podcasts. (I hope it lasts, I hope it lasts...)

I'm very glad the iPod has NO radio at all. Hell, my car radio is tuned 99% of the time to the station supported by the FM transmitter I use with my iPod.

I agree! Between Pandora and http://www.kexp.org/ ( One of the best radio stations I've ever listened to ) I've been exposed to way more bands that I actually enjoy than in the 20 years of commercial radio before that. Oh well, if anything, this will further alienate the RIAA from the buying public. I can't even remember the last time the RIAA did something I approved of.

http://www.radio1190.org/ is the radio station for CU Boulder: that's what I listen to most. Most of their stuff isn't great, or even good, but they'll play three days without me ever having heard *any* of it before and maybe 5% of it is really good stuff that I end up chasing down and buying, so it's kind of do-it-yourself filtering.
http://www.kexp.org/home.asp?noflash=true is a Seattle-based station I also listen to a lot. It's higher-quality but/and more mainstream than 1190.
As for the iceland, the link I use is on a machine at home, so this is the best I can dig up: http://www.penguinradio.com/regional/europe/icelan d/ -- the 'ethnic' stuff is *interesting*. I tend to listen to a more hiphop/r&b station but I can't find a link to it. If I remember tonight, I'll reply to this.

There are some good truly independent stations out there (although not many). KEXP in Seattle is one of those shining examples. They don't really play any ads and have quite a presence broadcasting online as they do over the air in the city.

Not to mention they offer mp3's of performances and new artists as well.

And, there are tons of other entities besides major labels that provide filtering services. There are music reviews, both in print and online, there are indie record labels (To name just two, I like http://www.quannum.com/ and http://www.ninjatune.net/ but a lot of people on /. might not) that are specialized enough that if you like one of their artists you probably like several of them, and, of course there is the radio. These days, if there is not a good radio station near where you live, that's no excuse. I live in Maryland and listen to http://www.kexp.org/ in Seattle. I discover new artists that I love there all the time. (Rather than listen live or to the archived shows, I use this software: http://www.rogueamoeba.com/audiohijackpro/ I can schedule it to record specific shows that I like and then listen to them on my mp3 player.

Oh, and another thing, whether it's Amazon, or the All Music Guide, or some other place, the Web is filled with "if you like that then you might like this"-type recommendations. Furthermore, in the old days, you might get recommendations from somebody you knew in your town who was into the same kind of music that you are. Now, if you don't know anybody in your town with your tastes, you can probably find a whole group of people online who like the same stuff you do.

So, there are more ways to find music you like than ever before and with the ease of recording and the cost of recording equipment plummeting, there is more music being produced than ever before. (Yes, more bad music, but also more good music.)

In conclusion, the "I'll just listen to Led Zeppelin for the rest of my life" guy (I love LZ, by the way, but I love the wide spectrum of wonderful music out there and can't imagine limiting myself like that.) obviously just isn't that into music, which is fine. It's easier than ever to find great music and if you're using some method where you have to listen to 100 crappy songs for every one good one, then you're not going about it very logically. If, OTOH, you're content to just listen to the same record over and over again, that's cool too, but it can't be blamed on the lack of good music or the difficulty of finding it.

I know a lot of people who find music with Last.fm. A lot of people I know listen to KEXP (from our good friend Paul Allen's Experience Music Project in Seattle, but nonetheless strongly independant) streams, which is a good deal more eclectic than most radio. By comparison I know few people who listen to the radio (for music) when it's not playing in a collective setting, like at their workplace. Personally, music reviews, cross-referenced on Amazon and allmusic.com, have helped me immensely and accounts for about %99 of my purchases.

This company decides what we all listen to, and plays the exact same thing on every station across the country.

You listen to the wrong radio stations. I've heard many of these groups on college and community stations like KALX, KEXP, etc. Those DJs also spout myspace addresses for themselves and many groups. Kinda like many people did with Friendster a few years ago.

This too shall pass unto the next fugly site whose owner is friends with certain press writers. That's the real trick about myspace; he has all the right friends in the right places.

From TFA

And for those of you who just can't afford to pay one more bill each month, we're keeping a low bandwidth stream. It may not be the best quality, but you can still tune in for free.

They are only charging for CD quality streams. It seems they're moving more towards a donation (with perks) scheme rather than a subscription only service. And moving to such a system certainly doesn't mean support isn't out there. I'm a fan of KEXP which has done very well with membership drives while keeping the music free for everyone.

Not that it was a particularly magic period in music history by any strecth (even though i'm quite fond of grunge), but atleast composing and playing your own tunes was still marketeable. People took risks. Nowadays, i listen to radio, and in a same genre i have a hard time telling one band from another.

It could be just you getting old. You might be jaded or burnt-out, or in a nicer turn of speech your tastes have become more refined.

You could be lazy about finding new music, you expect music you like to be delivered to you over the airwaves (You could try KEXP). You say musicians aren't taking risks, but maybe you aren't either.

I'd guess the popular bands of right now compose and play their own music- I think you're referring to the state of things from the late 90's to a couple of years ago.

I have the iPod in the car, public radio for news (NPR/BBC), and excellent streaming audio from KEXP , WFMU, WNCU, and KCRW. (And there's always WCPE when I need my classical fix.)

And I never subscribed to satellite radio.

This "commercial radio" of which you speak.. what was it again? And why should I have cared?

Aren't the airwaves owned by the public? Just a thought. If you want to hear what a good radio station sounds like, try http://www.kexp.org/ That's what DJs and indie bands sound like.

Not that I want your friend to become unemployed, but I've pretty much opted out as a customer of American mainstream broadcast media. Doing so is surprisingly easy these days.

There are still some decent content on U.S. TV (the Simpsons, almost anything on Turner Classic Movies), but 90% of it is crap that I easily ignore. We're cable customers, but we can barely justify the expense, other than the broadband access.

Public and internet radio fill the music and news requirements in our house. And there's the Beeb..

If Big Broadcast Media choked to death on its own vomit, we might not even notice it.

No commercials, DJs who know their job is to spin tunes and not blah, blah... Anyway, you can listen over the internet from their site

WFMU? Nah. It's all about the KEXP.

They play almost every kind of music at various points throughout the week, and it's a pretty good mix - you're not going to hear the same pop garbage repeated over and over. If you appreciate the station, you can send them a donation, too, as they're 100% listener supported (thus the lack of commercials).

They're just a company, not a religion, and they make a great product.

http://www.badnarik.org/ and http://www.kexp.org/ www.kexp.org huh/?

Listen to independent (usually college) radio. I spent my formative years listening to KXLU and KALX.

Listen to indie internet radio stations. A lot of people like KEXP; check the directories at shoutcast.com and icecast.org or your mp3's builtin directory (eg iTunes) (shameless plug - I run punk stream if you like punk)

Read indie newspapers, if available. L.A. Weekly if you're in Los Angeles, for example.

Read web sites that cover indie (pitchforkmedia.com is a start). Download stuff at random.

Go to music buying sites like audiolunchbox and magnatune, and listen to samples at random.

Ask friends for recommendations. Borrow stuff from them.

Hit alt.binaries.sounds.mp3.indie. Download stuff at random.

Go to indie record stores and buy stuff at random. I actually used to do this, buy something based on the cover art. Discovered some great stuff this way. And this was on a high school allowance.

All you need is a seed, and it can open up a whole new microgenre to explore.

Once you find something you like, research them. You'll often find information along the lines of "if you like X, you might like Y". Maybe a band member used to be in another band.

Look up that band's label's site. Often, indie labels have a common "sound" across their lineup, so you might like some of their label mates. Indie label sites usually have downloadable sample songs- download them.

And so on.

I do all these things. I take music seriously, it's a big part of my life. Sometimes it feels like work, to tell you the truth. But I'm driven by the idea that, no matter how much I like the music I've enjoyed in the past, there's something even more incredible out there.

I have a lot of CDs and I continue to buy a lot. But I also have a lot of downloaded music. I have a fairly clear conscience though. I genuinely feel that most indie bands wouldn't hold it against me that I downloaded their music to give it a listen, to see what they are about.

Does all the above sound like "too much effort"? Then, perhaps, music doesn't mean as much to you as me. That's cool.

Me- I'm not content to be fed stuff by commercial interests whose agenda run contrary to my search for interesting music. And I have the time and desire to invest in this pursuit. I can appreciate that others may not. Or maybe you're out in the sticks, with no broadband. In which case, I think you to resign yourself to a certain lifestyle, anyway.

That's why I don't live in the sticks :).

-h3

I always read album reviews with a grain of salt. I've never been able to identify as to why, but I have never found popular music reviews to be very helpful to me. There are only so many ways that you can describe a particular song or expression of a genre and none of them adequately convey the way that I react to music. It's weird because I can read movie and book reviews and understand (and possibly agree on) what the writer is trying to say about the overall quality and purpose of the work.

But when a music review comes along, it just doesn't work. Is it because it's very difficult to describe the collaboration of multiple instruments in a linear and narrow format (i.e., the sentence)?

Along the same lines I've found that I have a very hard time describing music adequately to others. The only thing that occasionally succeeds (and happens to get used in music reviews all the time) is to compare the work to something that went before (like saying Limp Bizkit is a combination of funk and metal, or Britney is bubble gum sex pop). But then that's just a generic description, and not so much a statement on subjective quality.

I don't think I've ever bought an album where I thought a reviewer captured how I felt about the music after I listened to it. It will be interesting to see if this can be accomplished using what sounds like some sort of data mining exercise.

Thank God for try before you buy. This is the one thing that has me buying more music over the last year than the previous four or five.

A lot of people, check out KEXP, it's one of the better independant radio stations, and they stream in most formats if you're not in the Seattle area. Plus they have online archives of recent shows and what not. Check it out, they have a pretty eclectic set of shows.

Check it out

I DO!!!!!!

go KEXP

after all, who else puts the "ecksp" in "Ka-excsp"?

You might also try KEXP, affiliated with the University of Washington. I just learned about them this week, after an article in Time Out New York. They are based out of Seattle, but are apparently so popular in New York thanks to web listeners that they sponsor NY concerts. NYC listeners apparently are their second largest source of listener donations.

And I was getting so psyched last night because I got my Via EPIA board loaded up with Fedora and XMMS, and could finally stream my favorite streaming audio site, albeit with Ethernet cable (Wi-Fi was on my project plan), and pipe it through my office stereo.

And this little beauty will plug right into the wall socket by my stereo for a lot less money, less hassle, etc.

Anybody wanna buy an EPIA, slightly used?
(DAMN DAMN DAMN DAMN DAMN DAMN DAMN DAMN......)

2. ..(not in my 20's anymore) ...
4. The number of artists creating music that I enjoy has decreased significantly.

These two may be causally linked.

I think when a person is in school or other situations where they're surrounded by similar people there's more pressure to be tapped into cool music, or any kind of music, but once you're in real life around a huge diversity of people all with different tastes in pretty much everything, the pressure just dissolves.

There's plenty of great new music out there, but I think I myself will never buy a music album (I tried out a couple music clubs years back, but came out of it with way too much crap). Music recordings are nice, but not really worth money to me. Other than the twenty minute commute I don't really have places and time to consume it. I'm not going to sit around in my spare time listening to music, it just doesn't engage enough senses. I'd rather be watching a movie or playing video games or reading or working on creative projects of my own and not be distracted by music (if it's good, it's distracting, if it's bad, why the hell listen to it, and why do anything for fun that needs distracting from). That's just me though...

First define what you think is "good", is it indie, rock, rap, country, etc.?

Then find an independent radio station that broadcasts a stream on the internet.

Listen to the station and hear artists you may have never heard before, and some ones you have.

Subscribe to that radio station's mailing list and get daily emails of the playlists.

This provides you the opportunity to listen to a variety of music in the genre you like and discover great music with out having to shell out your hard earned money for artists that don't sound so great on the albums other 12 songs as they do on the radio or MTV.

Check out KEXP(in seattle). IMHO, they are leading edge in terms of great music.

I find myself becoming less and less tolerant of advertising, as it becomes more and more prevalent. I wonder if anyone else feels this way. The only radio stations that I can stay on for more than a couple of minutes are the listener funded ones (like KEXP), and there's no way I can stand to watch TV anymore. I can tolerate banner ads as long as they're not animated, but anything on the web that delays me from the actual content gets closed and forgotten.

I hope I'm not the only one who would be extremely pissed to have audio advertisements bombarding me on the street corner. If they can't be avoided, then they will have to be destroyed; and society should not consider those who do so to be vandals.

Before you draw a parallel between these 'audio ads' and billboards (which also cannot be avoided) note that human vision is much more focused and selective than hearing - I can't just point my ears in a different direction.

regarding his statement Radio stations are worth what they cost, nothing. Obviously he has not spent much time going through them. KEXP, for example, is an excellent and very popular alt/rock station out of Seattle. I know many people who have discovered it through the iTunes preset. There are several other gems in there too, but that is the only one I listen to daily.

You mention seattle, but you fail to mention 90.3 KEXP. That's the station to listen to in town.

Try KEXP. It's a great place to hear music, you can listen to the last two weeks worth of programing online. It's the best radio station i've ever heard, and might be the best internet radio station as well. The only downside is their pledge drives, but since it's non comericial, i'll gladly trade these to have commercial free radio.

I listen to KEXP and 90% of the time they are playing something good.

I agree... this is very sad. I forget that not everyone can listen to KEXP in their car like I can.

I commute 52 miles to work, which in Seattle traffic takes anywhere from 1 to 2 hours each way (3 if an oil tanker explodes on the interstate or something). I started listening to my local NPR station (KPLU, which I knew about because it is based out of the college I went to) because the other radio stations around here suck, except for KEXP (KEXP, which is out of range for most of my commute (but ironically, I can listen to an uncompressed stream of it, you guessed it, over the Internet!). I'm pretty much addicted to my NPR during the commute now-- so I end up listening to it 2-3 hours per day. I feel that even if I don't get a chance to surf the net that day, that it keeps me pretty well up-to-date on current local and world affairs. But to respond to the question, yes, other than NPR, the Internet is, in almost all cases, my only source of information.

Can't say it enough. KEXP is the best radio station in the country.

Listen to the live stream.
Listen to the streaming archives.
Love music again.

Sure, they can't save TV. But they are saving radio every day of the week.

-r

Some could argue that recorded music has a greater value than a live concert. Sound preposterous? Here's how it works:

The majority of music-listening I do is from recordings. It constitutes roughly 95-99% of the music I get to enjoy. Meanwhile, the concert, while good in its own right, is transitory and fleeting. Why should I pay more money for something I'll hear once (unless a bootleg is available later) than for something that will provide me hours and hours of enjoyment? Because they're doing actual work instead of recording? Hogwash. Recording is work too, just a different kind.

So you could say that CDs are under-priced and concerts are over-priced. I'll pay $20 for the CD if the concert is $5 or $10.

How's them apples? (pun intended)

Keep in mind that I am not afflicted by the filler-track syndrome. It happens to people, I know. But I manage to avoid it. That comes from being more selective and less impulse-y. If I only ever hear one song by a band that I like I'm not going to buy the CD since I can hear the song on the radio. It also helps to listen to KEXP.

Cheers,
-r

Public Radio
Is a great alternitive to the likes of ClearChannel and such. I live in Seattle and everyone I work/run/hang out/playfrisbee/frag with listens almost exclusively to KEXP a local public radio station that grew out of the UW, and is now funded in part by Paul Allen.
KEXP offers an excellent selection of online formats for listening to the station, including MP3/WMP(56K and 96K ) RealAudio and an Uncompressed 128K stream ( in WMA :( ). Also they offer the ability to listen to any show from the last two weeks, stored in their archives, or any live band that comes on which sometimes have included biggies like RadioHead/AfroCelt SoundSystem and local favorites like Minus the Bear/Death Cab for Cutie/Rhett Miller/Doves/Dear John Letters/Flaming Lips/Supersuckers in addition to the excellent programming and specialoty shows.

What's the point one might ask? Everyone listens to it, there are no commercials, everyone goes to the shows, and the artists are genuinely happy to have a forum for their music.
It is my hope that these bands, and the station, will keep themselves afloat by offering downloads as a part of subscribing to the station.

Ok, that's all I got...

CORPORATE RADIO SUCKS, try some alternatives sometime. You might be pleasantly surprised.

24-track digital multi-track recorder($3,500) ; 40-channel mixer/sound board($6,000) ; studio musicians ($???/hour) ; booth construction (ca. $10,000) ; sundries such as cables, media, beer, etc. ($1,000)

Ok, here's a solution to that which lists for less than $2K and which Sam Ash is selling for less than $1K.

This is just to record. Now each artist has to remaster their own music (a very technically difficult job for which people study years).

The same device I linked to will create a legal Red Book Audio master you can take to a pressing plant to get pressed CDs made for it.

Then they have to shop around for a place to stamp CDs for them.

I'm in Los Angeles, this is child's play. This is only one example of places which will produce industry-quality CDs for $1,100 per thousand, with quantity discounts and repeat order discounts likely. And these places will do business with you over the Internet even if you live in West Bumblefsck, RFD.

They ask for CMYK artwork already transferred to film masters. This means finding some guy with Photoshop and a Service Bureau. Again, child's play in LA and most big cities.

All you add is talent...something which is not trivial, true, but if you have it, you have it.

The fact is that artists as renowned as Prince have been able to make far more money selling their music online than they have working on the Record Industry Plantation. The Do It Yourself spirit is alive and well, you just have to dig a little.

You don't have to be Kreskin to predict that the Music Industry's dying. It's not a bad thing, though. I look forward to dancing on its grave.

I worried time marched on and left me uncool, but it seems they've just abandoned the venerable KCMU for the more "edgy" KEXP. I find it hard to believe they're that much more 'freeform' or 'experimental' than they ever were, which is to say in the upper quartile of college radio stations. I just hope state of Washington taxpayers didn't pay for a call-letter change.

I just wrapped up my late night at KTRU which is certainly the peer of many of the stations mentioned here. I believe we generally sound better than most college stations, since the 50K watts tend to keep us from doing anything too dumb.

Damn, no moderator points. KEXP is unquestionably one of the best possible sources for new music. The broad range of music you will hear on KEXP is virtually unmatched. To get an idea of the breadth of music played, check out there live performance archive at www.kexp.org. All of the following artists played live on the air n the last six months of 2002:, Ozomatli, Rhett Miller, Pete Krebs, Visqueen, Ms. Led, Soundtrack Of Our Lives, Pure Joy, The Ruby Doe, Parker & Lily, Dolour, Tommy Womack, Bobby Bare Jr., Dear John Letters, Tahiti 80, Carissa's Wierd, Low, Dismemberment Plan, Neko Case, McLusky, Djelimady Tounkara, The Derailers, The Soft Boys, John Doe, Jason Lowenstein, Rilo Kiley, The Chameleons, Enon, Super Furry Animals, Joseph Arthur, Imperial Teen, The Forty Fives, Rusty Willoughby, Doves, Sahara Hotnights, The Lawnmowers, The Go Getters, Iron and Wine, Waxwing, Lo Jo, Interpol, Monica Salmaso, Otis Taylor, The Mekons, Thurston Moore, Zuco 103, John Dee Graham, Christy McWilson, Jenny Toomey, Brad, Hem, The Swains, Los Halos, Sarah Shannon, Champale, Kepa Junkera, Kings of Convenience, Deke Dickerson, The Damnations, The Briefs, The Flaming Lips, The Meat Purveyors, Black Angel, D'Gary, Mark Olson, Richard Buckner, Jim White, Rokia Traore, Lonesome Bob, Cato Salsa Experience, Calvin Johnson, Cousteau, Tuatara, Ed Harcourt, Aveo, Treasure State, Halou, and Dolly Varden (all performances (and lots more) are archived at the site).

I'm a huge fan of independent and college radio stations, but even then, most of these stations are "programmed" by genre, and I would rather listen to a station that is completely unpredictable, where you might hear the Dead Kennedys followed by Jurassic 5, followed by Johnny Cash, etc. IOW, true "Freeform Radio". KEXP radio in Seattle, I have found, is one of the best freeform stations in the world. They even have an UNCOMPRESSED stream of their broadcast available (sure, it's Windows Media format, but it's still a neat idea), in addition to WMP, MP3 and RealAudio streams. Also dig the real-time playlist!. This is a great way to discover and document cool music that you've never heard before.

I'm a huge fan of independent and college radio stations, but even then, most of these stations are "programmed" by genre, and I would rather listen to a station that is completely unpredictable, where you might hear the Dead Kennedys followed by Jurassic 5, followed by Johnny Cash, etc. IOW, true "Freeform Radio". KEXP radio in Seattle, I have found, is one of the best freeform stations in the world. They even have an UNCOMPRESSED stream of their broadcast available (sure, it's Windows Media format, but it's still a neat idea), in addition to WMP, MP3 and RealAudio streams. Also dig the real-time playlist!. This is a great way to discover and document cool music that you've never heard before.