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Microsoft Creates Static With New Webcast Feature
An anonymous reader writes "Radio stations are upset because Microsoft is cloning their playlists -- creating sounds-alike internet radio stations without the commercials."
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So they've claimed its creation. Now they have the next couple of years to patent it.
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Maybe if all the radio stations across the US didn't sound exactly alike....
Most radio today is crap and mostly commercials. There are very few stations not airing 80% commercials and 20% music.
Yeah, it might be an abuse of the money they earned with their illegal property, but I can benefit! And the person in the article comparing it to cloning Coke is wrong. Generic foods are very legal, and very popular.
any intellectualy property expectations of a playlist?
What's next? Accusing someone of copying the order of items on a store shelf?
The safest way to approach lava is to have another person with you and he goes first.
I might consider listening if they would just play something *different*.. How many times per day can you listen to No Doubt covering "It's My Life" before you can't help but ram an icepick through your head?
Thanks to ClearChannel, it's next to impossible to differentiate between radio stations in the first place.
Make a copy that has the DJ chatter, and strip out the music instead?
With all due respect to WIOG, they have shitty music. If it weren't for the fact that their DJ/intern chatter is hilarious (most of the time), I sure wouldn't listen.
First I've ever heard of Microsoft ever copying Anything!
Given Microsoft's own stance on such things, I imagine they'll have no problem coughing up licensing fees to use the call letters and slogans of the 900+ radio stations they're copying.
The problem isn't that Microsoft sounds like other radio stations, the problem is (to quote the article) "MSN Radio promotes these online channels as being "like'' a favorite local station, "but with fewer ads, no DJ chatter and less repetition.'" They're using the actual call letters from the stations.
Denver Isuzu Suzuki
What's the order of who we hate more again? I can never remember if Clear Channel scores higher on the Evil Index than Microsoft... ;-)
iRooster, the Mac OS X a
M$ is paying their royalty fees, we'd all sure hate for the RIAA to go after M$!
Snicker, snicker, giggle, guffaw, and the gut rumbling belly laugh.
Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
What's this? They're misusing their four letters, and a slogan that any halfwit with a marketing degree signed in crayon could come up with? (And has, all across the country?) Oh, please stop, I'm gonna bust out cryin'.
So....this is MS against Clear Channel then?
John Allers, you owe me a new keyboard. Mine is full of Dr. Pepper.
You might want to tell Clear Channel that. They've obviously not gotten the memo.
Most radio stations (or chains/groups whatever you want to call ClearChannel and their ilk) employ a program director who's job it is to survey the listening tastes for the station's target demographic in the local market and create playlists that will ensure that the highest possible number of people will listen to their station without channel switching, thus ensuring that the maximum number of ears catch their advertisers promotions and maximizing their return on investment.
Of course, what this guy really does is receive oral sex from hot young record company... um... "representatives" and ensure that they don't need to pay royalties for ad jingles.
95% of commerical radio blows goats. Unfortunately, college radio is now so afraid of offending somebody and being sued, very few of the real ground breaking programs are permitted to exist.
Norman Cook's Ode to Sl
One thing that sucks more than Microsoft are the comercial radio stations with crappy repetitive music and slogans like "Lite Rock, Less Talk". I hope Microsoft steals all their playlists.
M$
People love to act like the enemy of my enemy is my friend. What they often forget, is that your new "friend" may be equally as much your enemy as your declared enemy. Usually, it is best to just let your enemies kill each other with their own resources.
Click here or a puppy gets stomped!
Bill Conway, program director and station manager for San Francisco's KOIT-FM was surprised when he learned from a reporter that Microsoft was using his station's call letters and well-known slogan, "Lite Rock, Less Talk," to promote a mimicked version of KOIT.
it's one thing to play the same songs as the local stations and remove the idiotic DJ banter and brain-numbing commercials (a service i would consider paying for, if i actually listened to radio instead of CDs), but it's another to do it so blatantly that you even rip the fucking slogan.
Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
Wow, that's a new low for Microsoft. Not only are they copying their playlists but they're also selling the streams on the local call letters *and* their taglines. Pretty low business move, even if it's not technically illegal. However if any of these stations have a trademarked slogan then they have grounds to sue MS.
As easy as it is to fall back on the, "Radio sucks, too much commercials" line, and as much as I despise radio, most of the stations in my area play between 40-45 minutes of non-commercial crap.
It's just different crap. DJs with their stupid jokes, stupid callers with their stupid jokes, etc. etc. In fact, I'd rather listen to commercials than that junk.
We do have several stations that play 45 minutes of music without commercial interruption, unless of course you count the interruption to tell you that you're listening to 45 minutes of music without commercial interruption.
Even though, it's till not 80-20 by any stretch of the imagination...although those screaming car ads do seem to last hours.
The slogan is one thing. There's a station here in Michigan that has, "Light rock, no talk," which is effectively the same thing. But the letters are a different matter. The four letter callsign is supposed to be unique for all television/radio broadcast stations, and is usually trademarked as a matter of course when starting the station. Add together three things: 1. They're using the station's (un-unique) slogan. 2. They're using the station's unique callsign. 3. They're playing the exact same tracks as that station. Things aren't nearly as funny.
Their letters and slogan are probably trademarked or whatever the appropriate thing is, at least if the people running the radio station know what they're doing. So it would be illegal for Microsoft to use the station's call letters and slogans to mimick the station.
Why are you advertising a product that is not only non-Free, but is a Mac product with a Microsoft ASP download page?!
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
More radio, less reboots
If I were MS, I'd be worried about infringement of compilation copyright. Anthologies have an independent copyright claim by the editors in virtue of the arrangement, in addition to copyright claims in virtue of the items anthologized.
Someone's making a sound-alike station? Well duh!. When so many stations sound the same and have such a narrow scope, they become very easy to copy.
There's an simple solution to this: don't limit your radio station to a freaking playlist!. If all your DJs do is provide inane chatter while they shuffle around stuff from the same list of 100 songs, how long do you expect to maintain any sort of competitive advantage?
Oh, that's right, with ClearChannel dominating the airwaves, they didn't need to compete. That's how the industry let itself slide into this playlist dominated model to begin with. So now Microsoft can come along and say "Hey, we're just like $YOUR_LOCAL_RADIO_STATION, except we suck less!"
Sigh. End Rant.
Doesn't iTunes have a feature like this?
that put each station's playlist in the store, to browse, and download.
A nifty feature if you ask me, now if only every station in the OC area didn't suck balls
Two Roommates and a Boyfriend, updates Monday, Wednesday, and Friday
.... MS is fully aware of their intent to embrace and extend via the power of their money, follower base, and deceptive marketing.
Funny how the Justice Department doesn't have the balls to tell MS NO.
It would be weird, they didn't copy it so much as buy it.
So we've got two near-monopolies going at each other. This is what happens when (nearly) all the little guys have been swallowed up. The big guys start chewing on their own kind.
That strikes me as utterly walking into a law office and screaming, "Sue me!" .. but then, Microsoft has enough money to fight or even intimidate, but it seems completely pointless. It's hard to believe MSN could be so blatant, normally there's some craftyness to their attempts to lose money, but this... geez.
"It results in a more pleasant experience because you don't have the ads or the DJs,'' Rob Bennett, senior director for MSN Entertainment, said during a press briefing last week.
And a more pleasant, profitable experience for MSN Entertainment...
genuine-bolex-watches
I'm pretty sure they mean bollocks, or should have...
Copy radiostation formats
Use their call letters
Profit!
Hm..
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
"Many corporations enter, but only one leaves." That'll be the day...
Nobody is making you listen to M$ radio... or any radio for that matter. /. the servers...
But if you'd like to leave the radio cookie cutters at home, may I suggest www.wfmu.org, which has been streaming RA and MP3 streams for years and now a Slashdot-friendly Vorbis stream as well. And if you don't like what's on now, you can listen to more than two years of archived programming as well.
I hope I didn't just
--- the webhamster at wfmu.org
-- Real Stupidity is the Artificial Intelligence of the 21st century
I'm surprised MS can get away with "broadcasting" those radio stations' call letters. That might be an FCC violation as IIRC the call letters are registered with a license that the FCC issues each operating radio station.
-Randy
While I have no love for radio, for a company that claims to believe in IP as if it were property, they sure show a lot of contempt for other people's stuff.
Clear Channel vs Microsoft, now that is looking like a race to the bottom. May the worst company lose. Shame they both can't.
"95% of commerical radio blows goats. Unfortunately, college radio is now so afraid of offending somebody and being sued, very few of the real ground breaking programs are permitted to exist."
Hmmm, radio goat blowing. Now there's some porn one can get into.
Seriously this is a geek site and technology is our saviour. So why don't all the complainers start their own internet radio station?
Remember broadband penetration (right next to goat blowing) is about 50%. So you all can go home tonight and download shoutcast, and just go to town with your bad selves.
The case Microsoft is relying on is Playboy v. Terri Welles. Welles was a Playboy Playmate of the year. She put that information in the metatags of her website. Playboy sued saying that Welles' use of the terms Playboy and Playmate violated its trademarks.
The court ruled that the fact that Welles a Playboy Playmate of the year is, well, a specific fact. And because she was exactly what she claimed to be, there could be no confusion in the marketplace.
Microsoft's use of stations' call letters, however, will obviously lead to confusion. It would be like Pepsi putting it's "like Coke" right on its labels. Sure, Pepsi does takes "like coke." but the confusion in the marketplace would be too great. Basically, the fact is too generalized.
This will never go to trial though. Some higher up at Microsoft will come to his or her senses and put a stop to this nonsense.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
Does anyone have the patent for WIFI portable internet radios yet?
So where exactly do you draw the line between creating your own "pop" / "commercial radio" playlist, and cloning Clear Channel's playlists of the same type?
This is not at all like CocaCola, there are no ingredients, there isn't a blatent formula to follow. The only valid point I see the radio station making is if MSN radio is actually using local call signs on their playlists, which is unclear in the article.
Or vice versa -- too bad it's the lawyers that win, not the consumers.
MS will be doing their own video studio soon to compete against Hollywood.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
You are surprised? Look at the history...
Bill: That Mac is cool. I want that on an IBM compatible. The way every program has it's own door, no, it's own tabletop. Yeah, we'll call it Tabletops for DOS.
Paul: Actually, they're more like windows.
Bill: Windows? That's a stupid name. Look, I'm the genius around here...I say it's tabletops.
(Paul walks off disheartened)
Bill: Steve, I just came up with a great name for my Apple clone, I mean our new program manager: Windows for DOS...
Blah, blah.
He who questions training, only trains himself at asking questions. -- The Sphinx, Mystery Men
"Empathise with stupidity, and you're halfway to thinking like an idiot." - Iain M. Banks
...to create Static. My cellphone already does it.
An interesting question is how does this work with MS DRM and MS hopes to sell music. Anyone can rip the stream and get free music this way, and be quite safe from detection. I did not RTFA, but is there some DRM in the MS player that prevents this? Is this going to be linked to the music store and used to generate sales? How are the labels going to react to MS streaming thier music?
It sounds fishy but if it is for real it would be one of the few arguable innovative things that MS has done.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
Old MS policy. Copy stuff that works and put them out of business...
"Or vice versa -- too bad it's the lawyers that win, not the consumers."
If this was always true? Then I guess you're in the wrong profession. Better jump before your present job gets outsourced.
Given the recent trademark lawsuit of Microsoft vs. Lindows for sounding too much like Windows, I find it ironic that mere months later Microsoft would start selling radio stations that *even explicitly say* "Sounds like KMEL JAMS 106.1".
Microsoft: you can't have your cake and eat it too.
... it would be interesting to see if Microsoft feels if that were a violation of their trademark.
Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
microsoft copies shit. that's what they do.
but stealing playlists? what's so fucking criminal about taking the "top 20" and shuffling them ad nauseum? (well, yes it is criminal to be forced to listen to that playlist). of course all 1000000 clearchannel stations all use the same shitty playlist, are they all stealing from each other?
it's all so scary, so much shit music, so few playlists.
To get around the issue of using the same call letters as other radio/TV stations, why shouldn't Microsoft use BSOD? After all, it's what made them famous.
ROMANES EUNT DOMUS
"Actually, the folks who own the Dewey Decimal system have done just that."
Well I guess that answers the question. 9 out of 10 Slashdotters prefer Wikipedia over competing brands.
Looks like those clowns in Washington have done it again. What a bunch of clowns
BR> Homer: How does it stay on top of current events?!
in bed.
It results in a more pleasant experience because you don't have the ads or the DJs,'' Rob Bennett, senior director for MSN Entertainment, said during a press briefing last week.
If people like DJs and screaming ads, they'll listen to the radio. If not, they'll listen to Microsoft. If local stations would throw away the play lists and develop a personality, they'd have nothing to worry about.
Microsoft licensed the playlist content from Nielsen. Wouldn't the call letters and slogans have been part of what they licensed from Nielsen? In that case, shouldn't the stations be contacting Nielsen for selling the usage rights to their slogans?
Who do I hate more? Clearchannel or Microsoft. It's like when I was in 4th grade and the bullies decided to fight eachother. heh.
www.nova100.com.au
There should be a law requiring/prohibiting that (Please circle one)
Radio '95
Radio '98
Radio Millenium
Radio Bob
Radio NT
Radio nt
Radio for radiogroups
Radio XP
Radio 2000
Blues Screens Radio
And suggests that you re-boot your radio often.
I stole them. and you aren't having them back.
Of course, the question is why anyone would want a pay service that uses the playlists of mainstream stations.
I made the comment a few years back that broadcast radio is an enormous waste of bandwidth, because the content is so repetitive. It's far more efficient to download the content once and cache it locally. Then all the station has to broadcast is a playlist, using tiny bandwidth.
At the time, that was a joke. Now it's a viable business model.
If you have ever listened to a popular radio station in the US you would know that theyr playlists consist of about a dozen songs that repeat over and over again.
Leave it to MS to copy the most annoying feature of radio.
I prefer the original version of It's My Life by the 1980s British Pop band 'Talk Talk'.
Yeah, they played it a lot on MTV during their golden years (about 1981-1987).
The No Doubt version sounds so much like the original version to me, why bother.
It is just another way for the record labels to get you to pay twice for the same song.
Why don't all the world's record labels offer their entire catalog online for download in lossless and lossy formats for payment and download iTunes style without the DRM BS?
That way, you only pay for the best, most popular tunes and bypass the fluff and junk.
Classic Napster worked and increased CD sales when it was around.
Now everything is a disorganized mess:
Kazaa, eMule, eDonkey, and other P2P networks on the one hand and
allofmp3.com in Russia and iTunes, its DRM encumbered equivalent in the USA on the other.
Sheesh. Guess I'll stick with my existing CD music library.
If Microsoft is forced to change this it wont really matter, they will have already gotten a core audience who can spread what channel is like what station for them via word of mouth.
Either they will come to their senses, or they will just buy clear-channel, and eliminate the problem...
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I'm a little bit surprised that the station (or the consultant who designed the package) didn't register the slogan as a service mark.
Somebody help me out, I am confused? Who should I hate in this article? Microsoft of Radio stations and their RIAA connections? Who is the good guy? I am all confused, I think I am going to have a seisure?
I dare them to try and duplicate 97X's playlist!
Does anyone know what the Blue Screen of Death sounds like?
Two Corp.'s enter, One Corp. Leaves!
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
...and call it "U".
:P
That way, they can give back "F", "U", and "D".
"People" using "unnecessary" quotes should be "shot".
...just has to monopolise every game he plays! It's an obsession, I tell you - the boy needs to see a shrink!
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
For once I can't say I blame them. I'm no particular fan of commercials. ;->
This doesn't mean I will be using their services or buying their stocks.
Hooplah, last post?
It will happen.
And they're snagging the call letters of their carbon copy crapola stations?
As one poster noted, it's hard to know who to hate...
But the facts are simple: if radio stations had REAL DJs that were allowed to play whatever the fuck they wanted to, and then hired DJs on the basis of the depth and breadth of their musical selections and the cleverness of their song choices, there is No Way M$ could copy that, as each DJ would be regionally dependent on local taste. Example: the DJs of San Francisco might not fair very well in Oklahoma City. But it would all be by Sensibility, which is the most crucial marker of aesthetic choice.
But Bog Forbid anyone figure THAT one out... the closestthing you can do is get a live365 station but that's expensive and a bit of a rip off...
RS
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
While it is interesting that webcasting is only being noticed by the terrestrial broadcasters since MS has been doing it, maybe this is fortunate. MS can take the political hit while the rest of the people on the Net go on listening to better webcasters (ones that have their own song lists and do not play commercials anyway). Rebroadcasts of terrestrial radio stations in WMP have always been sort of a joke. Who really wants to listen to music at 72Kbs? Oh, right... MS users.
Here are my questions: The DMCA CARP defined royalties do not go to broadcasters whose signal has been used, do they? They are only for artists, right? If this is true, MS gets the blame and the radio stations will not have a right to anything being streamed over the Net (until they go to Congress, of course).
All data is speech. All speech is Free.
You may have seen the new Pepsi edge commercials where a coke fanatic falls in love with the new drink. There are vastly more Coke logo shots in that commercial than pepsi, yet it is clearly a Pepsi commercial. Likewise, it is legal for Microsoft to say their webcast is similar to but better than a specific other radio station. The only case would be if the website or ads looked confusing.
Abolish Copyright. Restore Freedom.
Those Clowns In Congress Have Done It Again. What A Bunch Of Clowns.
"I'm surprised they would co-opt the brand names of every radio station in America without permission," said Bill Conway...
What? Has he been living under a rock for the last 20 years? They just found a new market to steal from ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H innovate in!
Commerical radio has become so bland that it can be duplicated easily from the likes of M$. I think this says more about the condition of radio in America. .
For my money, my local community owned and operated radio station beats all the clearchannel clones hands down.
The radio stations vs. MS - who does /. hate more? Head will explode as geeks, nerds, and other basement people decide among two (count'em, two!) evils!
"There is no time, sir, at which ties do not matter," Jeeves, (Jeeves and the Impending Doom)
as environments who have radios tuned to music, usually don't have computers connected to the net (think cars, lots of different workplaces), and people in environments with access to net connected computers don't listen to over-the-air radio anyways (di.fm, mp3s, etc. etc.)
Now, if I could magically get di.fm in my car...
-- the cake is a lie
You didn't read the article, did you?
I work at one of the stations that Microsoft copied in the MSN Local Stations list. (We're one of the top 5 stations in our market.) Since we're part of an independent broadcast group (not controlled by Clear Channel, Infinity, Entercom, Fisher, Sandusky, etc), we have a great desire to protect our branding which we've worked so hard to build. I wouldn't be surprised if our legal team will be filing a lawsuit here in the next week or so.
Until....
MS and real swooped in with the "streaming media" patents, and the RIAA lobbied to the FCC to change the rules so that the Radio stations couldnt' broadcast without paying outrageous fees!!!!
so after the real, paying radio stations have been effectively put out of online business, the desktop OS monopoly with deep pockets swoops in and not just mimics them but has the gull to copy their playlists...
How can they exactly copy the playlists you'd ask? because the radio stations and online stations are mandated by the FCC to send in the playlists to a PRIVATE CORPORATIION so that the royalties can be accounted for... a private corporation that is now selling those lists to MS...
The only Good THing that should be comming from this is a break-up of MS...they just added a music store over the heads of their paying customers, now they use their pull to do an end run around the local radio stations.... This should be the "step too far" because local radio is tight with the politicans...Congress will read these letters...and hopefully do something about it this time!!!
to publicize MSN radio
This will never go to trial though. Some higher up at Microsoft will come to his or her senses and put a stop to this nonsense.
I agree it'll never go to trial. What'll happen, though, is that Clear Channel and friends will get scared and negotiate with Microsoft; for example, will do an exclusive distribution deal through Microsoft's version of the iTMs. Then, Microsoft wins; Clear Channel wins; the RIAA wins.
Oh yeah, Real and Apple lose.
Microsoft surely doesn't want to be in a position of being a radio station disk jockey. What they want to do is tie up that content, and to do that you can't just ask Clear Channel politely; you have to give them a deal that they can't refuse. This is the big stick that drives CC to the bargaining table on terms favorable to Microsoft.
Microsoft will maybe be someday called on this tactic by someone who is willing to go the distance; maybe not. Maybe that foe is IBM--or maybe Microsoft is smart enough not to take on the Real Big Fish--like the Chinese government, or Wal-Mart. Time will tell.
--
$tar -xvf
Are you telling me that Microsoft, the worlds largest, most well known, and richest computer software company would blatently steal from someone for their own profit?
... ... They're EVIIIIIIL!
The Microsoft Hall of Innovation
Because face it
*DrugCheese rants*
According to current law, as far as trademark goes, that's perpetual as long as it's upkept, but as far as copyright goes, that should have expired in 70 years for works done before 1920. Therefore you should be able to copy and use the dewey decimal system, except you can't call it dewey cecimal, because that's a trademark, you have to call it some generic name. Patents and copyrights expire, as they should, trademarks don't. After 70 years (90 years for works after 1920) you can do what you want with a copyrighted work, copy it as much as you want, post it wherever you want to, or shove it wherever you want to.
In the short time I have had WMP 10, I have found twice as many bugs as my entire time with WMP 9, but the interface layout is greatly improved and the new FREE MSN radio is great! Even though the free radio quality isn't that good, it's good enough for play on my crappy office speakers. I love it.
I'm no lawer, but I don't think what MS is doing is illegal (or even immoral) and I am sure MS had their lawyers check this out. This is no different than calling a game a falling block game a "Tetris clone".
BTW: I've used the WMP library for over 2 years and have really enjoyed it.
http://brandonbloom.name
I have less love for M$ than most (I worked for Be, Inc.) and, from reading the actual article, it appears that they've paid for the airplay data just like you or anyone else could. They run the data through a scrubber to take out songs they don't have the rights to broadcast and then mix it up a little with "similar" music. As much as it pains me to say it, I can see where some consumers might pay for such a service.
Read this article about the NAB and XM radio, and all the stuff that the NAB has done over the years, and you'll be sick. The NAB makes Microsoft look like a saint.
Here in Houston we have a nice College Station. It plays really good music, ranging from mozart to squarepusher to the postal service. Of course it damn well better be, since it is run by Rice Uni... Tune in at 91.7 (and no, I am not a student at Rice, it's just the only decent station in Houston)
Jisho - A Japanese English German Russian French Dictionary for the rest of us.
You left out the most important thing: the URL.
http://www.terriwelles.com/
There you go!
I'm not bothered at all by what Microsoft is doing. As someone has said, radio tends to be a few over-hyped songs playing again and again. It's crap.
So here's what I'm asking: what products would people recommend to get streaming internet radio to my stereo? Wi-fi, or wired ethernet (combine it with power-line) would both be grand.
Much as I hate to admit it, MS heeded to the plea I wrote on the last Arbitron survey I received: "Shut up and play the music!" Which is probably why that really was the last survey they'll ever send me...
Now, Bill, if you want to really please your audience let that playlist grow. Limiting your format to 20 titles is too boring and repetitious. With time to play more music, please play more songs by more performers--not the same song every hour, on the hour. It's scary when the Sunday Morning "top 40" show has better variety than than the regular programming, but that's happening in the major markets.
Wait, you mean to tell me that one day... I'll be able to listen to "streaming audio" from a "wireless device"? Wow! I can't believe it...
I say... Welcome to 1954... and the birth of the transistor radio...
http://people.msoe.edu/~reyer/regency/
" Bill Conway, program director and station manager for San Francisco's KOIT-FM. Conway was surprised when he learned from a reporter that Microsoft was using his station's call letters and well-known slogan, "Lite Rock, Less Talk,'' "
Yeah, because nobody else but Bill Conway ever said "lite rock less talk" on a shitty music station.
The funny part is bill actually believes he invented the phrase. moron.
Maybe if all the radio stations across the US hired DJ's that were worth listening to.
:begin fantasy
:end fantasy
There used to be a time when the radio personalities actually knew something about music and were interesting to listen to. Now it seems that loudness is the primary trait that broadcasting companies look for in a DJ.
If they hired people who were actually passionate about the music and could come up with interesting playlists as well as have some fun talking about how great their favorite (non-mainstream) bands are, that would be something both worth listening to and difficult to imitate.
But then, if the broadcasting company can't control the playlist, how can they sell airspace to independent promoters hired by the record industry?...
pi = 3.141592653589793helpimtrappedinauniversefactory7
Every "lite" rock station in the world has the same exact slogan.
Lite Rock, Less Talk
More Rock, Less Talk
In fact, between those two slogans, I think I've covered 75% of every station in the U.S.
Oh yeah, half of those will add:
"Tune to our station and then RIP THE KNOB OFF".
They're such a bunch of freaking rebels. Wow.
Gee, Microsoft on one side, Clear Channel on the other. The symapthy I have for both sides is just overwhelming.
Here's what I think they're doing.
After a couple of stations scrape up enough money for hiring lawyers, MS lawyers meet with the stations's lawyers, and the MS sends in the sales crew:
And, yes, it's a small fee. Doing it for free now will hopefully put up a smoke screen when Apple or someone complains that they are effectively service dumping. Then MS owns the music 'net, in spite of Apple being first in.
Either one. A breathe of fresh air. I've had it (sirius) for 2 months now, and I can no longer listen to commercial radio.
Its not perfect, but its pretty good.
Every time I make a joke, it gets modded insightful or informative? This has happened before, see?
"This is KTIT! KTIT, playing the breast uh the best tunes in town!" -- Duke Nukem
The presentation of something is also copyrightable, and is in and of itself a creative work -- a collection of poems in a particular order is copyrightable.
Radio stations can probably argue that they playlist that they have chosen is covered by copyright -- even if Microsoft removes the names of the radio stations, and just lifts th eplaylists.
May we never see th
Normally, I'd always be up for some good old Microsoft bashing
But, quite honestly, I can't say I'm any more fond of ClearChannel. I guess I'd have to pick which one is the lesser of two evils.
-- n
Microsoft aims for nothing less than domination of the entire information economy. People who don't see this are fools. Every time you buy Microsoft software you further their campaign. We are all getting what we deserve.
I, for one, do not welcome our Microsoft overlords.
Perhaps Microsoft sees that they may no longer be able to make a lot more money ripping off other software developers so they're taking their software business model and applying it to other fields.
We don't see the world as it is, we see it as we are.
-- Anais Nin
I am so glad someone is fighting corporate america and their fascist contol of the media.. um.. oh wait, did you say microsoft?
Nevermind.
now what we need is a p2p tool that will allow us to easily find and download all the mp3s for the playlist of a given station. then microsoft AND the radio stations will sue.
Now THAT would be a kickass battle. I wonder who would win...who do you think has the bigger warchest? Of course, Bill is fighting for pride and the music usurers are fighting for their lives...
Blar.
in older Aussie slang is a shorter anatomical term for "arsehole".. what an appropriate description for Microsoft and a commercial radio station in San Fran.
This is nothing new, I've been listening to non-DJ'd, no commercials, music only intenet radio for along time on iTMS.
I really do. I cannot think of anything better than MS being broken up.
All data is speech. All speech is Free.
This looks like a fun fight. It doesn't matter which side wins or loses, but we get to watch the corporate giants that have tried to homogenize our lives and destroy any effort to halt this homogenization eat each other for lunch! Now THAT's entertainment!
www.wavefront-av.com
I worked for Be, Inc.
I'm sure you hear this a lot, but you guys made one hell of an operating system. It's a damn shame that I bought it so late in the game -- it was only a few months before Be closed it's doors. D'oh!
It's been a long time.
I've always loathed hearin' ya. Problem is, I still hate the music. So this is more concentrated poison.
They claim that they are ahead with this concept, do they didn't learn about shoutcast.com who broadcast music for free at 128kbps and others at 192kbps? They seems to live in their world!
microsoft is cloning playlists, which for the most part suck. i for one would rather listen to a station with weather, traffic, some interesting DJ's, and a crappy playlist, than the crappy playlist by itself.
.
my point.
mediocre as most radio stations are, they have nothing to fear from microsoft, at least as far as this listener goes.
more opinion follows...
want some 'better' radio
WRFG has some excellent programs and aso some rea crap. more ike TV than radio. one has to listen at specific times. For example, they did a show of nothing but train music. bluegrass and other music that was infuenced by the sound of trains and music about trains. It was GREAT.
WREK has some realy good programs. IMO a lot more of their air time is 'good stuff'.
KTUH is about half as good, IMO, as WREK and still beats every commercial station I've tried.
The above three stations are all 'on-line' as well as broadcast. The yall play a broad range of music
classical, bluegrass, all sorts of rock, international, americana, country, western, etc.
I like them because you never know what you're gonna hear next and between the three, there is almost always somethign worth listening to.
other college radio to consider, WRAS.
anyone else have suggestions for good college/community non commercial radio stations which can be found on-line?
Why should the radio stations be worried about M$ duplicating their playlists? They have the same playlists at every single clear channel radio station across the country.
The music industry is its own worst enemy. Commercial radio homogenizes everything so you hear the same 8 songs 4-6 times a day no matter what market you are in. They take payola (for lack of a better term) from the record companies to focus on the acts that they think have the most potential because they signed outragous contracts with them. Meanwhile CD prices continue to climb.
If they had any brains they would sign a lot of acts with reasonable contracts (more $$$ on the back end instead of up front) as opposed to throwing tons of money to the same cookie cutter hip-hop act that will never be heard from after their first album drops. This will reduce the cost to the record company, theoretically allowing CD prices to drop, theoretically reducing the need for P2P piracy, while encouraging creativity in the artists. After all, change is often a good thing.
But what do I know?
------
There's a fine line between cuddling and holding someone down so they can't get away.
The record labels spend tons of money trying to get popular stations to play their songs. In college, I was the music director of our university's station in Boston. We had TEN watts. Yet, we got servicing from every major record label, just about every indie label and were bombarded by calls and promortions from the independently hired promotions companies (paid by the majors).
All this because we were in one of the top five markets in the country. One spin on our station reached more ears than one on a 50,000 watt college station in the middle of east bumfuck. So we got more attention than them.
The fact that a label only has to convince a single station somewhere to play their song in order to get it on Microsoft's copied playlist must be making them salivate as much as Pavlov's dog at a firehouse.
Maybe there'll be a fight between ClearChannel and MS, but the RIAA must be loving this... And they'll side with MS...
-bs
That that is is not that that is not. That that is not is not that that is.
I also have interned at a radio station. I have a few friends in the buisness as well. Basically, in my opinion, it is the programming managers fault. No one at the stations that is incharge of programming has a passion for music, they are just trying to play things that they think people will want to listen to, instead of playing new music that they themselves have discovered and have a passion for. The ratings books don't help, as there isn't anything worthwile to listen to in the first place. I am turning my friends on to new music, because there isn't any on the damn stations! All of the power is held by those that control the media. If you just stick to what sells with out ever taking a risk, your buisness will succeed and continue on a predicable path. As large as radio/mass media companies have become, they cannot afford the risk of deviating from the established buisness practices. So basically its a buisness decision that prevents new interesting music from being played. It sucks, but thats what allowing large media companies ( thereby reducing new innovative competing companies) leads to.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
So what you're saying is that, copyright/trademark/etc. issues aside, Microsoft is now charging you to listen to the same music you can get for free over the radio?
How is this any different from those cheap perfumes/colognes? "Compare to Obsession/Drakkar" Or Over the counter meds which say "Compare to the active ingredient in Advil"? They aren't claiming to be the radio station; they are saying they sound like them. Sounds like radio execs are upset because their whole business plan is so easily co-opted. I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure you can't copyright a list of songs, or patent songs played in a certain order.
Oddly enough, I don't see a single Clear Channel station from my area listed. I see a couple of Jefferson Pilot stations and a couple others, but NONE of the 5 Clear Channel stations. Seems odd...
...in the past, it's all been just normal talk. Now, they can put it to music!
"Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt: The Musical"
"People" using "unnecessary" quotes should be "shot".
The Slashdot Companion Reader to (Score:+5; Insightful) for New Moderators:
... - (+1; repeated elipsis use vice rational structure)
cryptofascist drones - (+1; angry big words)
ClearChannel - (-1; proper name)
micro$oft - (+4; M$ reference)
Great Hits By PreFab Pop Stars - (+1; cheap shot at pop culture - except iPods, don't f with iPods)
average American (who, by and large, has precious little in the way of cultural sophistication and intelligence) - (+2; US bashing)
carbon copy crapola - (+3; fecal reference *with* alliteration)
But the facts are simple - (+1; self-proclaimed expert analysis)
radio stations had REAL DJs that were allowed to play whatever the fuck they wanted to - (+1; whine for the past that never existed)
and then hired DJs on the basis of the depth and breadth of their musical selections and the cleverness of their song choices - (+4; passionate appeal to the Creative Culture)
there is No Way M$ could copy that - (+2; second M$ reference, but still pretty good)
Example: the DJs of San Francisco might not fair very well in Oklahoma City. But it would all be by Sensibility, which is the most crucial marker of aesthetic choice. - (-1; mixed caps and big words are good, but proper spelling is costly)
But Bog Forbid anyone figure THAT one out - (+5 incitefu- err Insightful: munged $deity reference for additional karma - boosts meta karma too in a karmic kind of way *with* gross oversimplication of the facts)
the closestthing you can do is get a live365 station but that's expensive and a bit of a rip off - (+5; be still my palpating heart - put this guy on someone's payroll)
RS - (+1; so well known, Master Ralph Spoilsport is known simply by his initials)
Ah yes, what's ours is ours and what's yours is ours, the typical M$ behavior. Nothing new here.
The question then, is if the links all point to the same stream. That would prove that you can't tell the difference.
Of course they can't really because some stations really are different. The music industry actually lets a few "target" markets have some music variety. Cities like New York, LA, Chicago are used as measures of how well music sells and other stations in "secondary markets" slavishly follow. Things get really annoying when all the local radio stations are owned by one company like Clear Channel. Going from a town like that to New York is like leaving a cave.
Microsoft's piggy back is typical of their disregard of other people's IP, their laziness and their arrogant contempt for the legal system. Because most people know how the music market works, M$ can get the same result by ditching the letters and just going with descriptions like "NY Progressive Jazz". It's such a small change that they should do it but they won't. That's part of their never admit a mistake attitude so often expressed by their legal staff. My bet is they waste time and money in court rather than change things or figure out some kind of cross licensing. You would think that radio stations would pay for the M$N advertising. Going at it this way, without asking permission, is going to turn a lot of that good will into animosity.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Maybe this will mean that radio stations will have to be less predictable in order to compete?
Bah, what am I thinking, this will just mean that radio stations will now start suing Microsoft. (The ABA ought to award Microsoft a lifetime appreciation award.)
Terrorists can attack freedom, but only Congress can destroy it.
What you fail to realize, is that the majority of callers are likely to be middle-school/Britney Spears lovin'/MTV watching/retards. They have no clue what REAL music, or even GOOD music is. All they know is what MTV pounds into their brains. With most kids having their own cell-phones before they even reach their 'teens, there are now more kids than ever calling in and ruining the airwaves.
To make matters worse, George B. has ruined the economy so much, that the only people left with any money to spend are kids w/ their allowance money. This makes Corporations even more bloodthirsty for the pre-teen demographic, since they're the only ones w/ money stupid enough to buy the crap being produced/marketed.
The only saving-grace I've found where I live(Silicon Valley) is the local college radio station, a public FM radio station that actually plays music more than they spout right-wing redderick, and an independant radio station that has managed to stay in business thanks to a devoted listenership.
No reason to think otherwise of MS. In all likelihood if this goes anywhere it will go the way MSIE went with Netscape. The out come of the anti-trust trials showed that MSIE was used to kill netscape -- once Netscape was dead, all advancement on MSIE stopped.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
...and I look forward with wry amusement to the announcement that they've become a Microsoft subsiduary. They seem to want a monopoly on monopolies as well.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
The difference is that Saying "Compare to Advil" is not the same thing as using the box art from Advil, and putting the actual Advil logo on it, but putting bargain bin aspirin in the bottle. Microsoft isn't saying, "Compare this music lineup to WIOG/Citadel, they're actually saying, "Hey, look, we have WIOG's music lineup. I've listened to a couple local stations that are on this. They go an extra step. In one case, they have the special hourly shows matched even. They play mostply pop in the mornings while the morning show is running, they play 90's music from 12 to 12:30 PM, they play dance remixes from 7 PM to midnight Friday and Saturday, and they play mostly rap Monday through Firday from 7PM to 10, when the "Party House" guys are on. When they have the top 5 requests at 12:35 PM, the "Fab 5" at 8 PM, and the top 30 on Saturday and Sunday afternoons, they match the track order. This isn't just making St. Tom's Aspirin and telling people it's just like St. John's or Advil. They're picking up St. John's for free, sanding off the markings on the pill, putting it back in the SAME bottle, and selling it in the same package.