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>> >>Firefox rules...IE sucks...let's fight! >>

Come on TMM, we all know konquerer is best....

Hmmm...the lowest end machine I have right now is one of those ancient Gateway Handbooks. It's a tiny little subnotebook, circa 1993, with a 486 SX25 processor and 20 megs of Ram. Firefox is a pipe dream on this machine (FF runs slowly even over the network via X). Dillo is barely usable; it takes about three seconds to redraw the screen (such as when scrolling up or down). I can't get older versions of Netscape or even the Ted word processor to run on this machine. The last major release of FreeCIV does run, albeit slowly, if I use the XAW client.

I might be able to get a Small spreadsheet to run on this antique.

I can't believe that you are running Firefox on a system with only 32 megs of RAM. The Firefox I'm running right now is using over 100 megs of ram, judging by its VSZ size. I know there is an embedded port of Firefox for PDAs, not to mention an embedded version of Konqueror.

Last time I had 24 megs of ram, I used Netscape Navigator 4.x until I could get a system with more memory; it was just not possible to run Mozilla on that machine.

Because Linux users really need IE in order to dump Firefox.

When we were evaluating technologies over a year ago, KHTML and KJS stood out. Not only were they the basis of an excellent modern and standards compliant web browser, they were also less than 140,000 lines of code. The size of your code and ease of development within that code made it a better choice for us than other open source projects. Your clean design was also a plus. And the small size of your code is a significant reason for our winning startup performance...

My favourite Web browser, Konqueror, has excellent SVG support. I have even many SVG wallpapers on KDE displayed in sequence every 1 min, as well as SVG system icons. And people keep asking me why I don't like Firefox!

Konqueror uses the KHTML rendered, which is the basis of OSX's WebCore, which is what Safari uses for its renderer. These updates to Safari (or WebCore really) should eventually make their way back to KHTML and thus Konqueror, which will run on your Linux flavor of choice.

To someone not familiar with X11 programs, this might seem like a bug, but it certainly is not. As anyone who is familar with X11 programs knows, to copy something, all you need to do is highlight it. This means that if Firefox did auto-highlight the url every time you type in an address, you'd have your clipboard contents stolen from you. This is the reason that Konqueror includes a "Clear Location Bar" widget beside the location bar which does exactly what you want: clears the location bar, sets focus to it, and doesn't mangle your clipboard. There is a similar feature for Firefox if you install the extension for it.

Desktop Linux has, for the most part, stagnated because KDE and GNOME won't merge into one mega-standard.

Desktop Linux has stagnated because neither KDE or GNOME are good enough. They are incomplete. Merging the two together would just create a bigger incomplete, not good enough, system, and subsequently, other projects would be founded to make up for it's flaws.

If you're running GNOME, a KDE app, Mozilla Firefox, and OpenOffice, you've got at least four major libraries now sitting in your memory.

But *why* are you running those in the first place? If you're running GNOME, why use Firefox over Epiphany, the offical GNOME browser? Why run OpenOffice over Gnome Office?? If you're running KDE, why not use Konqueror and KOffice? Why do you need to run KDE apps when you're using GNOME as your environment (and vice versa)?

The basic answer that people give for using a "non-standard" app (eg using GNOME apps in KDE) is that the "standard" solution either isn't good enough or doesn't exist. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

Merging the two would just be encircling them in a bigger fence. If wouldn't stop anyone else from doing something better on the other side.

Are there any drop-in-replacements for Nautilus that solves my issues?

Yup. Konqueror is exactly what you describe.

Sure, Safari and Konqueror both use the KHTML engine. But "a little validation" isn't practical for serious QA work. Somebody has to sit down and design an automated test harness for each configuration you support. That's most of the work, no matter how many tests you actually do.

What use is linux for handhelds, considering there are currently no good open source mini browsers (eventually, there will be minimoz) or handwriting recognition programs.

Completely different. Safari is built on KHTML, used in konqueror. Which, IME, is a much nicer browser than firefox, at least if you're using kde.

Check Konqueror. It is an integrated file manager, file viewer and Web/FTP browser for KDE. It's small, fast and full of features.

It is a good idea to use official builds or compile the software myself to be safe from various security threats. Unofficial builds may be faster, indeed, but I would prefer to read instructions on how I can compile Mozilla to load pages faster**, instead of installing a prebuilt program that I don't know what is changed in it and how secure it is.

** Note: I use Konqueror and it is orders of magnitude faster than Mozilla/Firefox/IE in loading Web pages. I definitely believe that Konqie is the perfect browser. The only other browser that I have found to be faster than Mozilla/Firefox (but not faster than Konqie) is Opera. Too bad that Opera isn't open source, if it was then IE would be history by years now.

even slower than it's already glacial performance

Drop the apostrophe in "it's", unless you meant "slower than it is already glacial performance". That doesn't make any sense to me, but perhaps it does to you.

there aren't any CS departments that base their courses on Java, who cares about java

As horrible as the idea may be, there are a number of CS departments that made the Java switch during the big Java boom of the late 90s. My alma mater did the switch, though luckily I was always at least a semester ahead of Java changes.

Seriously, we really need a suite of JAVA tools, like word processors, spreadsheets, web browsers, etc... No more of this "well, it works on Windows, if you want it on Linux or Mac though we'll have to sit down and write it all over again, and probably introduce a ton of bugs....." stuff.

Just as soon as Java gets a good, cross-platform widget set, this can start happening. AWT and Swing aren't it. SWT is the right way to go, IMHO, but since it's not built into Java, it'll never have as much acceptance as AWT or Swing, and Java on the client will continue to be judged by those crappier toolkits.

What good is a program that depends on exact versions of 50 libraries (yeah, like I'll be able to reinstall that in 5 years and have even an outside shot at it working) and only works on a couple platforms, if you're lucky.

Java has the same problem. The Java base librraries are good, but there will always be something you want or need to do that the default set of libraries doesn't supply. What do you do? Well, just like a C programmer, you find a library that has already done what you need, and you use that. As for portability across platforms, you still have to worry about differences in the JRE for each environment and if you make any assumptions about a particular platform (paths, for instance). Java gives you the possibility of being portable, but it doesn't guarantee it.

when you make your own custom hacked windowing system to speed the process (Mozilla), it ends up being a slow RAM hog, even more so than it would be if it was written in JAVA, or another portable language to begin with.

The problem is not writing your own custom hacked windowing system (which XUL isn't -- it's a custom hacked widget set; the difference being that a widget set is the stuff inside the window, while a windowing system handles the windows themselves and doesn't much care what's inside), but writing your own custom hacked system stupidly. Mozilla's XUL is written stupidly, because it doesn't use native widgets (hey, sounds like Swing!). If the Mozilla developers would lose the ego, they would find that there are a number of good cross-platform widget sets (Qt, wxWindows (or wxWidgets, I guess they're calling it now), or even GTK+, though that would be my very last choice for a cross-platform widget set). Instead, the Mozilla team created Firefox when people complained about the weight of the Mozilla suite, yet they left XUL in place. At least there's Galeon, K-Meleon, and even Konqueror (since it can use Gecko as a rendering engine) available as native-widget web browsers.

There is simply hands down a hundred things the Linux kernel can do that the NT kernel can't in it's current state. Software raid(as i mentioned in another post)

What features does Linux's software RAID offer that Windows 2000's software RAID doesn't?

seperate cli/gui

"Separate" in what sense?

removing internet explorer

What does the kernel (in the sense of "code running in whatever corresponds to 'kernel mode' on the CPU") have to do with that? To a large degree, the "integration" of IE in Windows means that much of IE is a wrapper around libraries that provide HTML rendering, HTTP/FTP/etc. backends, and the like, and that those are also available to other applications. (That's something that can be found with at least one browser in at least one desktop environment on Linux and other UN*Xes as well.)

konqueror embedded is only about 2mb! opera is abou 3mb. Both are extremly fast on Qtopia based handhelds. I dont think there is a need for mozilla. In fact, GPE and X based handhelds already have Dillio

Koncor (sp?)

It's Konqueror.

You're OK for now if you're running SP2.

Ummm... My Win machine is running SP4. Oh, you mean XP SP2. Not on my machines, man... The highest I'll go on my personal machines is 2k.

Aside, you left out another browser of very worthy note. Oh, well, make that two.

I'm sorry, i doubt you have linux on your pda. If you did you would probably be using konqueror embedded . You know, the same KHMTL that runs safari...

You can try Konqueror which I use and seems to be able to handle the iKobo site without major problems. Unfortunately for M$ users, Konqueror is bundled only with KDE which runs on FreeBSD or GNU/Linux. If you are on M$ you can try Opera but it is commercial and I haven't tested it with iKobo.

My favourite browser Konqueror renders Slashdot correctly, proving one more time the superior rendering capabilities of KHTML and its technical dominance over IE and Gecko.

Sorry, but Java STILL eats up gobs of memory, and the VM startup time is STILL a significant overhead, in the day of Web browsers that pop up instantly. Remember: as far as desktop software components are concerned, actual benchmarked speed doesn't matter anywhere near as much as the feel of responsiveness. And Java apps still feel heavy, at startup, on the screen, in the RAM. Please don't blame people for seeing what they see.

...to Konqueror. (-:

Next time you try Mandrake, shove a music CD into your drive and type audiocd:/ into Konqueror. Then try fish://yourlogin@yourunixserver and see what happens. Securely.

Too bad that Konqueror isn't getting the attention it deserves.

It's not available on windows so I guess that's why... Too bad.

However, when I use Safari (which I thought was loosely based on the Mozilla project's browser engine), I see even more rendering problems than in the other two browsers.

My suggestion is that you run the "problem" pages through the W3 Validator before suspecting a particular browser's implementation.

Even if I ban the use of IE, how do I get firefox to render html email in Outlook?

I remember Konqueror getting support for Shockwave through Wine with 'reaktivate' - does anyone know what happened to that project? I can't find anything more recent than late 2001...

Try it out for yourself and find out why none of us KDE users can live without its Browser, its E-mail client or its complete office suite.

Beyond the Foundation are many other Mozilla-enabled browsers such as Konqueror and K-Meleon.

Konqueror uses a very capable HTML rendering engine called khtml.

From Konqueror's page.

KDE's KHTML is already being used in devices with little memory and slower CPUs

Screenshots include Google, Slashdot, and even The Onion.

Whats more is that the it is a fully featured browser (SSL, screen resizing, etc). And it does not require X to run.

Sunny Dubey

The vulnerability was first discovered in Opera, and was later found to also exist in Konqueror of KDE fame. Since Safari is based on the Konqueror code, that's probably where it came from.

safari's based on KHTML, not Gecko.

1. pico for quick editing before I've got X up and running.
   
2. NEdit the best programmers' text editor ever!
   
3. fvwm2 a good, fast, customizable window manager (I suffer through twm until this is in place)
   
4. ddd a simply wonderful front-end to gdb.
   
5. mozilla my browser of choice, warts and all (though konquerer is giving me second thoughts)
   
6. xscreensaver nothing makes me happier than xmatrix.
   
7. xpdf simple PDF viewer, no frills.
   
8. ROX-filer a fast and simple file system browser (though I've been leaning towards konquerer for about a year)
   
9. unclutter makes the mouse cursor disappear after several second of inactivity.
   
10. xv in case I need to fiddle with image files.
    
11. xine in case I need to watch a movie.
    

On top of this I have a set of configuration files archived for several of the above programs (i.e. fvwm2 and NEdit) and general system setup (fstab, XFree86, and bash/sh profile).

1. pico for quick editing before I've got X up and running.
   
2. NEdit the best programmers' text editor ever!
   
3. fvwm2 a good, fast, customizable window manager (I suffer through twm until this is in place)
   
4. ddd a simply wonderful front-end to gdb.
   
5. mozilla my browser of choice, warts and all (though konquerer is giving me second thoughts)
   
6. xscreensaver nothing makes me happier than xmatrix.
   
7. xpdf simple PDF viewer, no frills.
   
8. ROX-filer a fast and simple file system browser (though I've been leaning towards konquerer for about a year)
   
9. unclutter makes the mouse cursor disappear after several second of inactivity.
   
10. xv in case I need to fiddle with image files.
    
11. xine in case I need to watch a movie.
    

On top of this I have a set of configuration files archived for several of the above programs (i.e. fvwm2 and NEdit) and general system setup (fstab, XFree86, and bash/sh profile).

which is a Gecko base

The underlying HTML technology beneath Safari is KHTML, not Gecko.

> In my opinion everbody should use Firebird or Konqueror... =)

I'm sorry, but Firebird isn't a browser. Perhaps you meant FireFox?

Konqueror is part of KDE, which isn't available for Windows. Windows still has about 90%+ of the internet users, and nobody will switch OS simply to use another browser (especially when you consider most won't even download another browser)

And last, you forgot Opera in your wish-list. They may be commercial (oh no, run, it's not free!) but their browser sure kicks serious ass. Firefox is nice, but Opera is still superior (IMHO).

The folk at Apple contribute an insanely small amount to Linux development overall (they contribute, not saying they don't, but spitting in the ocean doesn't add that much water overall).

Apple never ported shake to Linux, never will.

Everyone looks at bang-per-buck. Opterons on Linux are cheaper and a lot more bang-per-buck.

The other issue is that Linux is OSS. Need a change? Fix it to meet your needs. Can you do that as easily with OSX? No. You have to tell a mac developer who may or may not make the change you need to best suit your needs.

I, on the other hand, like MS better than Verisign.

If I don't want to use IE, I don't have to. I am not forced to use their product or to see their ads if I choose differently.

Having a poor browser does not break any other Internet applications. This does.

You may be interested in this.. Anyway, Linux has been better for Porn downloads for ages. Get mplayer, konqueror, and of course the gimp.

Just because you can doesn't mean you will. I'm proud to have Konqueror as my user agent.

Heh. A fair comment. :)

However, I've been using Konqueror since before even KDE2 was released; back in the day, when I made that my sig, it was in fact quite an achievement to get Konqueror to work on Slashdot.

(In case I change my sig eventually and people are wondering what this AC is talking about... my sig was "This comment posted with Konqueror.")

For a programmer he doesn't seem to be very smart about computing.

• Something like Lavasoft's Ad-Aware would have removed any advertising/hijacking software he might have downloaded and installed by accident.
• As for pop-ups, certainly any of the pop-up blocking Mozilla based browsers would have done the trick. Also KHTML based browsers like Safari and Konqueror. A veritable cornucopia of choices!
• Finally, as the email seemed to originate from the same company, same product, I think even the simplest filter would have been able to recognize this as spam.

One can create photo galleries, use advanced groupware applications, browse anything on your computer, be it a camera or a network share from the same interface, have a music player that fits in appearance with the rest of the GUI, and oh yeah, works on everything, from a Sun Ultra 2, to a PC, to a Mac G3. Yeah, there are a few niche applications where a mac may be good in, but for The Rest of Us, Linux is where it's at.

From the site:

We appreciate your interest and your support of our security research efforts over the past several years. Please join with us in being part of the solution.

Try Mozilla or Konqueror instead--two fine free software web browsers (and there are many others). Then consider switching to a free software operating system so you don't bump into holes in other applications and have to wait for the proprietor to fix them for you. If you want to inspect, copy, distribute, or modify free software programs you can do so (or get someone else to do so for you). Freedom is really worthwhile.

How is this easier to use than this?

I'm already storing data by topic. I use a concept commonly called "directories". For example, all my pr0n is held in the ~/pr0n directory all my tunes are held in the ~/Tunes directory and all my pictures are held in the ~/Pictures directory.

I haven't looked at data based on physical location in eons. I used to read data sector by sector off floppy drives. Yeah, that did suck. Data wasn't necessarily organized by topic. But since the advent of filesystems, I've been able to organize by topic through use of these so-called "directories".

IE isn't the only web browser.

Mozilla (+derivatives) is our only full featured OSS browser

Pardon?

What about Konqueror? I think it's a pretty kickass browser.