Domain: msnbc.com
Stories and comments across the archive that link to msnbc.com.
Comments · 1,681
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It could be worseIt least they comments haven't degenerated to 'yeah, but could it take Biohazard or Vlad the Impaller?'
[Yes, yes, I know, Vlad lost early on this season, but it's still a well known 'bot. And I still think Biohazard should have won the decision].
I'm also surprised that no one compared the robots to the search dogs they have working. [Can work longer hours, with just a battery change out, can be built faster than it takes to train a dog, can be sent into more dangerous areas without fear of killing it [as it was never alive], etc].
Flame me later for the MSNBC link, but they had a good article on the use of dogs earlier this week:
http://www.msnbc.com/news/633727.asp
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Protest the terrorists' killing of OUR innocents
HAVE YOU OPENED A NEWSPAPER IN THE LAST 2 WEEKS? We are not indiscriminantly carpet bombing the region as you fuckwit hippies are trying to portray, we will hunt down and kill the monsters who did this. Nobody is calling for it, but you idiots react to it. Why? Because you can't deal with the REAL problem, so you have to make the opposition look worse than it is.
And your sig is offensive - no innocents have been killed by the US in response to the 7000 innocents that were killed by the Al Quaeda demons. Oh, but I'm sure we DESERVED it, didn't we?
http://www.msnbc.com/news/634264.asp -
Re:Precedent already exists
scraemondaemon writes:
Uncle Sam wants you to help fight the war on terrorism. They demonize you and criminalize you and then ask for your help. What's a hacker to do?
To which an Anonymous Coward responds:
Japanese Americans were poorly treated during WWII. They could have complained, and whined, but they volunteered for the military. A famous Army unit was most made up of Japanese Americans. They fought well and heroically on the European front. Their sacrifice and committment helped change American opinion of Japanese Americans.
I'm very glad you mentioned this, Mr. Anonymous. There are at least two possible responses to the U.S. government's request for help. One, the "scraemondaemon" response, is to whine about being "demonized" and "criminalized" at the same time bodies are still being dug from the ruble. Another is to act like you care about someone other than yourself, and perhaps even about your country, prove your critics wrong, and volunteer to help prevent a similar, or worse, terrorist attack in the near future.
One inspirational site describes the heroism of then Lieutenant, and future Senator, Daniel K. Inouye.
Other sites concerning the 442d Regimental Combat Team and the 100th Infantry Battalion include:
Asian - Pacific Americans & the U.S. Army
National Japanese American Historical Society - 442nd Research Page.
Service Battery.
Silent Warriors - Silent Heroes .
Katonk.com .
Similarly, one could emulate the hundreds of Muslims, Arabs, Iranians, Afghans, etc. who have responded to the request by the FBI for people who speak Arabic and other Middle Eastern languages ("The phones have just been ringing off the hook"). See also FBI targets Arab-Americans for recruitment; hundreds respond to appeal.
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Or, as I said, one can whine about perceived slights while others bury their dead.
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Re:What's a hacker to do?
You think they'd have messed with 767's if they had nukes? This isn't a game.
You think they'd have done anything at all if the CIA, through Pakistan's ISI, hadn't trained them to be extremists? Like you said, this isn't a game - I just wish states and their "intelligence" arms would realize that next time someone involved with them feels like installing a military junta or training "freedom fighters" to "uphold policy". Nations in both East and West are guilty of this, and until these deadly cloak-and-dagger games of subversion and manipulation stop, there will be more incidents involving "blowback," where innocent civilians - like WTC employees, and women in Afghanistan - get caught in the crossfire of others who should know better.
And you wonder why people trust their governments less and less... -
Digital radio from local station!
I found a much better article on MSNBC and it talks about a company called iBiquity which has technology so local stations will be able to broadcast in digital and analog over the same frequency.
The only reason I had for being interested in the radio satallite service was having nice CD quality sound without the hassle of f'in with my mp3's or CDs. Well, if locals start doing the same thing evenutally, but for free, and it sounds like they will, these guys are gonna be hard pressed to get customers. I, personally, found the idea of getting the high quality sound appealling, because honestly, sound from radio with my car or home stero systems just sounds bad compared to CDs. I'd love to get the digital sound, but I think I can wait for my locals to start broadcasting it for free. I mean, why waste the money on a satellite radio, if I'm gonna end up getting one for my locals evetually anyway.
puck -
America: Where freedom is against the lawHow is any of this ensuring my freedom as an American citizen?
How is the validation of an individual's identity ensuring his sanity on a flight? If I carry this card, and prove that I am indeed the holder of the thumb and body which the card indicates, what is stopping me from running into the cabin of the plane with a fork, and declaring the plane in the name of Homer Simpson? Nothing.
Stop trying to fill your pockets, Larry, at the expense of the very same freedoms which made you rich.
We have Microsoft trying to pull everyone's personal credit information into Passport and
.NET, so they can control where you go, when, and how you get there, and we have Oracle, trying to capture and store and "manage" your very identity. I don't think so.We also have the DMCA, the SSSCA, backdoored "encryption" (anything with more than one keyholder is not encryption), the RIAA, MPAA, gps tracking devices in rental cars, cameras at every intersection, Dmitry Sklyarov vs. US/Adobe, and traffic tickets being sent in the mail for infractions you were never stopped for.
How is this giving me liberty again?
What people in our government fail to see is that the collection of these events, coupled with those who are trying to restrict stem cell research, our encryption, our liberties, and now, in a very delicate potential time of war, issuing lethal foreign policies. People are leaving this country, and taking off for other places where the opportunities may not be as vast, but the freedoms certainly are.
I'm very close to taking off as well, before the borders are closed, and I have to show my passport, fingerprint, and biometric validation, along with government approval to leave this country, and I'm taking all of my loved ones with me.
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A vision of our future..Check this picture out:
Nifty Pic
That pic had the caption:
'Police held two men at gun point in New Jersey after a bus driver reported they spoke, "little English," and seemed "suspicious."'
The read this quote from MSNBC
DAILY LIFE IS CHANGING
Daily life in America is likely to change as a result of the Sept. 11 attacks -- with the newly created Office of Homeland Security likely to play a role in those changes, current and former government officials said.
"I think in order to defend the homeland, we're going to need more information about virtually every citizen. So we're going to have more databanks and databases that have information about us,"
INCREASED SURVEILLANCE
Even as Americans returned to their normal pursuits, surveillance was increased. For example, there were car inspections at the Mets-Braves baseball game at Shea Stadium Friday night -- the first major outdoor sporting event in the New York area since the attacks.
Here is a copy of the Anti-Terrorism Act of 2001 second draft.
As well as the "Mobilization Against Terrorism Act".
All I can say is, be careful what you wish for and what saying "Oh whats a little ID card."
It won't stop there.
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Hmm
According to MSNBC, the United States has denied the Taliban's claim of shooting down our spy drone.
See story here. -
Re:The mighty has fallen?Or else maybe they are having a "strategy" rethink given that GameCube's launch was less than spectacular.
Well, I think there are two reasons for that: 1) the video game market is slumping in Japan anyway (according to this MSNBC article), and 2) the WTC had been attacked two days before. I doubt people even in Japan would be in the console buying mood after that happened...
Just my $.02...
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Re:Wireless and 3G
Personally I can't wait till the day when my laptop has a wireless 3G card that can connect at high speed whenever and where ever I want.
I think you might have to wait, since the military just changed their mind about opening a large part of the spectrum. -
All sounds too much like a setup...
Come on now! Yes I think we can acknowledge that most humans can use tools made by other humans but does that mean that the originator of said tools is somehow to blame for their use?
Should we blame the makers of carpet cutters for those terrible days too?
Furthermore I can't see anywhere in that article where there's anything more than *speculation* that PGP was used.
Is anyone else suspicious about the timing of this article and the one on MSNBC mentioning how the majority of the people think that cryptogrpahic "backdoors" might prevent other attacks?
I'd be tempted to think that somebody is attempting to use these horrible events to further a polictal agenda. -
Different meaning :)According to this MSNBC article, 72 percent of Americans don't owe a computer or don't know how/what for to use one.
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Trust MSNBC to PanderYou might want to read this article to better understand what MSNBC considers to be fair reporting practices. In the face of the facts concerning where the pilots in question were trained, no less.
Sorry, but yellow journalism does not get me to believe anything. Perhaps if some real security news forum reported this, I'd believe it. MSNBC belongs on the Tabloid rack at the Pic'n'Save. -
Re:Protest over France's 'cool reaction'?
the first thing that flew into my mind was that this was possibly a 'protest' against France's... umm... how to say it... 'lukewarm support' for American policies in tracking and punishing the terrorists responsible for the WTC attack.
Yeah, we need a scapegoat now. Nobody knows at this moment, whether Bin Laden (whose Taliban BTW were once sponsored and armed by the CIA ) is responsible for these attacks. The fire which the US once have nourished to burn others, finally has come home. -
Consider the Opposition
If you feel the FSF, GNU or open source users are being paranoid, I urge you to check out the opposition. Such studges as MS-NBC being openly biased are "spreading the word" throughout the popular press. What do you think of Windows XP? Shouldn't the fundamental discussion be about privacy and your trust of this new operating system? It is no wonder that many people in the US are being misled and Microsoft is able to divert the Government from their mission of looking after consumer's interests. Microsoft will stop at nothing.
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Making Money With The BombingSomthing interesting: http://www.msnbc.com/news/629380.asp?0si=-
Synopsys:
NBC News has learned that investigators in Europe and the United States are examining whether Islamic fanatic Osama bin Laden may have financed Tuesday's terror assault on America by stock trades in European exchanges in the days before the attacks.
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Some linksHere are some links for you to digest:
- Bin Laden comes home to roost - about the militant's CIA training
- Bush's Faustian Deal With the Taliban - Opinion, references the $43 million in 2001
- $70 million in aid to Afghanistan in 1997 - according to the CIA itself.
- Who is Osama Bin Laden?
- They can't see why they are hated - Opinion
- Arab-Americans feel a backlash
- Arab-American community 'keeping its head down'
- Acts of Terrorism the Ultimate 'Faith-Based Initiative' - Opinion
- Charity receives hate calls
- Falwell says 'ACLU's got to take a lot of blame for this'
- Bin Laden comes home to roost - about the militant's CIA training
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Some linksHere are some links for you to digest:
- Bin Laden comes home to roost - about the militant's CIA training
- Bush's Faustian Deal With the Taliban - Opinion, references the $43 million in 2001
- $70 million in aid to Afghanistan in 1997 - according to the CIA itself.
- Who is Osama Bin Laden?
- They can't see why they are hated - Opinion
- Arab-Americans feel a backlash
- Arab-American community 'keeping its head down'
- Acts of Terrorism the Ultimate 'Faith-Based Initiative' - Opinion
- Charity receives hate calls
- Falwell says 'ACLU's got to take a lot of blame for this'
- Bin Laden comes home to roost - about the militant's CIA training
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Jeremy Glick, from Dateline
The most powerful and moving coverage of Jeremy Glick's story, from Dateline NBC: http://www.msnbc.com/news/629077.asp
Please read. Please mod up so people will see. -
Re:Conventional and Unconventional Wars
I wonder if the Internet was used heavily in this action, and if it would be used heavily by such groups in the future.
This article talks a little about bin Laden's use of technology, and this article in particular mentions the NSA's efforts towards listening to bin Laden in the past.
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It's as though I'm his good twin...
Urgh. I don't even know where to start.
First of all, MY analysis of two media. The integration of TV and the Internet has created a bizarre mutant child of online and offline media, where the repetitive imagery and propellerheads of television news are subject to the scrutiny and discussion of numerous newshounds with too much time on their hands... the result being that along with television's processed, plastic-packaged presentation of events, we have the opportunity to view with a few clicks of the mouse how hundreds, maybe thousands (we won't have specific numbers for possibly three weeks, so stop asking...
... hmm, poor taste alert) of people feel about the presentation, and how other people feel about how people feel... and so on and so forth. This makes media uniquely responsible for what they present... not so much now, but as interactive forums become larger and more common, television will bend to the will of the message maniacs.It's quite obvious that Mr. Katz didn't vote for President Bush. That's fine; I didn't, either. I think the president rose to the occasion quite nicely, though; his staff made sure that he was safe for the duration of the attacks (I bet Mr. Katz feels pretty silly now that the New York Times reports there was a credible and specific threat to the President), and he played his political cards right.
When our president addressed the nation, he had two options. He could read a teleprompter containing a script approved by his staff and listen to their advice on how to remain calm and deliver it so that he didn't identify with and therefore justify the violent feelings brewing in most of America and start a mass lynching of Arab-Americans... or he could just say whatever was on his mind at the moment. Given those two options, I think we were pretty lucky.
It's also rather obvious that Mr. Katz also shares my distaste for television network news. I think the news organizations of America performed far above and beyond the call of duty... the Three Horsemen (Rather, Jennings, and Brokaw) put in two back-to-back sixteen-hour days on the air. Aaron Brown and Shep Smith both remained with us, commercial-free, for the first two days after the attacks. Ashleigh Banfield herself narrowly escaped WTC 1, and was struggling to remain composed as she related the story of herself and her crew. No thought was given to the advertisers who weren't having their products or services displayed for us to buy; in fact, CNN was broadcast over nearly every Turner network instead of regular programming. In times of ongoing crisis such as this, the news becomes a grueling business. Everyone involved with every network displayed a tremendous amount of intestinal fortitude as they reported on this most, ah, unique event. Rather than dismiss them, I think they all deserve our praise... for a change.
With their usual hubris, reporters and politicians were promising us that everything was going to change.
I have late-breaking news for you, Mr. Katz. Everything HAS changed. The bar has been raised for Shocking Terrorist Acts. Americans everywhere are fortified with cellular phones and the memory of this incident, coupled with a firm resolve to never let it happen again. (I would like to see anyone try to hijack a plane with a knife now.) All of us have seen the powerful impact that the Internet and wireless communications can have and have had in this situation, and we will use this knowledge the next time disaster strikes.
...bringing me to my final point. Sadly, the change that will have the most impact on America is that despite increased security, despite carriers off the coasts, despite air marshals, despite military strikes around the world... there will no doubt be a next time.
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Re:The Battle
Yes we're so much closer as a nation now.
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Katz, what are you saying!
...It was odd how cool and natural all of the reporters and anchors were. Everybody said they were shocked, but nobody seemed to be.
...President Bush, sticking to his cautious sing-song monotone, fled to various bunkers and seemed to shrink throughout the day.
Katz, this simply wasn't true. There were several news anchors and people around them full of real emotion, on the verge of tears. For instance Ashleigh Banfield on MSNBC (an incredible woman and anchor who should get a friggin' medal for her work), at the beginning of the terror she was almost crying and could barely speak.
And GW, bless his heart, was almost crying today too. For once, I felt like he was really my president.
There was a lot of reality on TV for once. Too much.
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Re:"Donation" Spammers...
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What MS is doing in time of crisis....
Microsoft is donating millions of dollars to the relief funds, and they're matching employee donations as well.
Here's what is actually in the forefront of the Borg's mind the day after the attack. -
Re:A bit off topic, but
Update... According to msnbc teh story about Osama bin Laden's hosue arrest is false, being spread by a report in an Arab newspaper. The Taliban has denied this.
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Re:Why you should help
The Blood Centers are saying that they're above capacity right now and are asking people to come back either next week or even later as reported here.
I saw a spokesperson on the Today Show this morning saying much the same thing. He mentioned that they need to stagger this supply chain.
All in all it's comforting to see people turn out in these kinds of numbers. I'm not saying that you shouldn't donate but that you may want to wait and do it in a few days like these people are asking. -
New Terrorism Victims: Privacy and Civil Liberties
There are several stories around about the terrorist attacks, what the net has to do with the trail for clues, and what we're looking at in the future. To start, news.com has a story about searches conducted at ISP's. Earthlink was reportedly served with an FISA warrant, which an Earthlink representative called "equivalent to a wiretap." The only people allowed to request an FISA warrant are the directors of the CIA and FBI, and the secretaries of state and defense. All but one of the 7,539 FISA warrant applications since 1978 have been approved. According to the ACLU, not one instance can be found where the target of a FISA warrant was allowed to review the initial warrant application, as it is granted by a secret panel of seven federal judges. Msnbc has more information about the FBI and its searches, with AOL, Yahoo, and Earthlink confirming that they've been cooperating, and Microsoft only saying they "regularly work with law enforcement." Wired has more detail about "a major network service provider" saying that the FBI showed up on Tuesday "with a couple of Carnivores, requesting permission to place them in our core, along with offers to actually pay for circuits and costs." The most troubling quote, from the same anonymous source, is "I know that they are getting a lot of 'OKs' because they made it a point to mention that they would only be covering our core for a few days, while their 'main boxes were being set up at the Tier 1 carriers' -- scary." An anonymous engineer at Hotmail indicated they "are cooperating with their expedited requests for information about a few specific accounts." Former Labor Secretary Robert Reich made a commentary (RealAudio only) on last night's Marketplace on NPR about terrorism and the future of privacy. He closes with a few chilling sentences. "To gain back more of our security, we will give up more of our privacy. We'll do it gladly, if that's the price we have to pay to counter terror. The willing loss of our privacy is likely to be one of the major consequences of the horror that occured September 11th, 2001."
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Re:What we must do
The most important responsibility of government is to protect the lives, liberty, and property of its citizens. Our government has failed in this regard.
"Our government" has failed in this regard because the primary responsibility of people acting under the guise of government is to insure the continued existence of government (to make sure they still have a job, are still important, and still have control over 'the population'). You can see this in their news conferences - to paraphrase "I want to let everyone know that the Federal Government still exists and is still working, and is doing important stuff". Nevermind that the actions of those acting under the guise of government were likely the primary instigator of these attacks, as you point out - remember that bin Laden got his start with the CIA (MSNBC article), and our 'government' chooses sides often enough in worldwide conflicts to royally piss off people who get the bad end of the boom stick.
Many thanks to whoever it was that posted Harry Browne's "When Will We Learn?" article on slashdot yesterday.. In case you missed it, here's the first section:
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The terrorist attacks against America comprise a horrible tragedy. But they shouldn't be a surprise.
It is well known that in war, the first casualty is truth ? that during any war truth is forsaken for propaganda. But sanity was a prior casualty: it was the loss of sanity that led to war in the first place.
Our foreign policy has been insane for decades. It was only a matter of time until Americans would have to suffer personally for it. It is a terrible tragedy of life that the innocent so often have to suffer for the sins of the guilty.
When will we learn that we can't allow our politicians to bully the world without someone bullying back eventually?
President Bush has authorized continued bombing of innocent people in Iraq. President Clinton bombed innocent people in the Sudan, Afghanistan, Iraq, and Serbia. President Bush Senior invaded Iraq and Panama. President Reagan bombed innocent people in Libya and invaded Grenada. And on and on it goes.
Did we think the people who lost their families and friends and property in all that destruction would love America for what happened?
When will we learn that violence always begets violence?
<<<
What 'America' must do now is stop the insanity, stop whipping out it's proverbial dick and beating people with it, even if some believe 'it's in their best interest'. Mind your own business, and there'll be less animosity towards you in the world. -
The CIA has done everything that terrorists do.
I don't think you have been following the activities of the secret agencies of the U.S. government. The CIA has done everything that terrorists do.
For example, see this quote from the Atlantic Monthly story, Inside the Department of Dirty Tricks:
"We're not in the Boy Scouts," Richard Helms was fond of saying when he ran the Central Intelligence Agency. He was correct, of course. Boy Scouts do not ordinarily bribe foreign politicians, invade other countries with secret armies, spread lies, conduct medical experiments, build stocks of poison, pass machine guns to people who plan to turn them on their leaders, or plot to kill men such as Lumumba or Castro or others who displeased Washington. The CIA did these things, and more, over a long span of years.
Did you know that Osama bin Laden was trained by the CIA? See the MSNBC article, Bin Laden comes home to roost.
Do you think that Osama bin Laden is a terrorist? Then isn't the agency who trained him a terrorist organization, also? -
my view on what should be done vs. what will bePersonally, I would like it if we would find out who did this, and bring them to a fair trial somewhere. That would be a legal way of solving this that would not involve actions to which the enemies, whoever they are, could retaliate to.
However, I am aware that this was a terrorist action. Though terrorist actions are reasonably infrequent and small in the United States usually, other countries have much more frequent attacks. If the United States does not retaliate in some form, it will look as if there is no down side [to a terrorist, mind you] to going out and attacking. If we do not retaliate, we would open ourselves up to much larger possible problems. Also, Bush has already announced he will go after whoever did this.
Since there will be a retaliation from the United States at some point, it is my hope that we will be quite careful in what we do. Despite the fact we have NATO behind us, I think a war would be risky, especially since [according to an article from MSNBC"On Tuesday, a senior U.S. official told MSNBC.com that "no option has been taken off the table." Asked if that included nuclear weapons, one senior official said: "I said no option is out of the question. That's precisely what I mean." "] the possibility of a nuclear retaliation has not yet ruled out. I am aware many of our officials have been speaking out of hurt for loved ones, out of anger, and most importantly out of terror. To act out of terror or anger would be quite dangerous, for inside intense emotions people are not usually at their most rational.
Bush and many others have already previously said to Afghanistan that if while they were harboring Osama bin Laden he caused trouble they [the US] would consider it an *act of war* from Afghanistan. Think about that. An act of war.
One strong concern about war for me is that, as like many others, I have many friends of drafting age who I would like to see alive for quite some time thank you very much should drafting come into consideration again. Most importantly though, I don't like the possibility of a war now. As we know, technology has reached such a place that a world war [which is what a war would most likely turn into, as we have NATO's support since they invoked Article 5] has the potential to be quite deadly for, well, the entire world. If people were to start biological or nuclear weapons, all hell would break loose not just on humanity but on the ecosystem. Needless to say, I do not support a war.
I find it interesting that the US has changed policy regarding terrorist actions when Bush said last night "We will make no distinction between the terrorists who commit these acts and those who harbor them." In the past the US has done more of what I'd like here, they've tried to take terrorists to court.
It will be interesting seeing how everything unfolds. Let us hope it does so as peacefully as possible.
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Re:there's an argument to be made....
It gets worse, though... Bin Laden and the al-Qaida are the 2 top suspects in all of this, and according to this article at MSNBC, both groups were given their "startup funds" by our CIA in an attempt to weaken the Soviets, who were occupying Afghanistan in the 80s.
So, who was the head of the CIA at the time? Oh yeah, George Herbert Walker Bush. Interesting, how it all comes back to bite him and his family on the ass. -
MSNBC Article on BinLaden and CIA
This article links the CIA with Bin Laden... Scary? I saw Orrin mouthing off yesterday as well.
This link was discovered via Slashdot, via Michael Moore's page.
Winton
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Suspects
MSNBC (The TC channel) was saying that two suspects had apparantly attended flight school in Florida last summer. It didn't have any more information on WHO the suspects were however. Here is a related story there.
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First person story
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Re:Just heard on CNN: knives and cardboard cuttersFrom MSNBC:
Little is known about the final moments on board the four hijacked airplanes used in Tuesday?s terrorist attacks but frantic phone calls from some passengers paint nightmarish scenes. In one, a man aboard United Airlines Flight 93 called an emergency dispatcher from a bathroom using a cell phone: "We are being hijacked, we are being hijacked!" he declared moments before the plane crashed near the Somerset County airport, about 80 miles southeast of Pittsburgh.
[...]
On board the plane that crashed into the Pentagon, conservative political commentator Barbara Olson reportedly called her husband, U.S. Solicitor General Ted Olson, on a cell phone: "Can you believe this ... we are being hijacked?" Then, the phone went dead. -
MSNBC: Net rallies relief work, housing, help
From MSNBC:
Kindness, bravery amid the horror
Internet used to rally relief work, offer housing and help
Sept 11 -- In the midst of terror and tragedy, charity fought back across America -- and across the Internet. Tales of thousands of small heroes are emerging, from a New York City bus driver who sped people to safety amid falling debris to a McDonald's manager near ground zero who kept his store open to give rescue workers water. But the kindness has spread far and wide outside New York and Washington D.C. Long lines outside blood donor agencies started forming spontaneously Tuesday morning. And around the country, homeowners near airports are offering free housing to stranded travelers through Internet message boards.
HUNDREDS OF STORIES of spontaneous acts of kindness are emerging. As always, horrendous acts of hate have a way of bringing out strong acts of love.
When Maria Trotta, who was stuck in a subway under the trade center for 45 minutes, finally emerged from the smoke-filled subway, the smoke was even worse above ground. But instead of running home, she took care of a woman who had asthma.
"I went looking for a mask for her, but couldn't find any, but the only thing I could find was a pair of (fortunately clean) athletic socks," Trotta said.
She guided her several blocks, finally leaving her in the care of EMTs at a rescue station. Only then did she walk across Manhattan Bridge back home to Brooklyn to meet her husband. "I never got her name."
Jay Lacny was on a bus that sped away from the World Trade Center just moments after the second plane hit. He was one of thousands who are currently sharing stories describing how lucky they are to be alive. He was with a crowd that was standing in the street watching the fire in the first tower when the second plane hit the other building.
"We then literally ran for our lives with debris crashing all around us," he said. "A bus pulled up a couple of blocks away and everyone rushed on and then sped us to safety a mile away. The driver and all of us were scared for our lives, but did nothing out of the ordinary. I'm sure that many others have contributed greatly and risked their lives."
Much of the real heroism came from fire and police workers at the rescue scene. A New York City police officer who declined to share his name was carrying victims out of Five World Trade Center when it collapsed.
"The fire department were getting people out from the rubble and we [the police officers] were carrying them out," he said. "I carried some out and was going back in to get more, but they wouldn't let me back in. They said the structure was unstable. That's when the second tower collapsed." He said many victims were still inside, and several were still alive after the collapse -- and too stunned to yell for help.
"(People) were dazed and shocked. It was surreal. I've never seen anything remotely like it. There just are no words to describe it," he said.
Across New York, thousands of volunteers pitched in. Store owners opened their doors and gave away flashlights, water, food or anything else that would help rescue workers or victims forced to walk home to Brooklyn, Queens, New Jersey or elsewhere once public transportation was shut down. A Duane Reade pharmacy gave out free water, snacks and first aid supplies. A Mrs. Fields Cookies gave away all its food.
Others helped by offering free rides to victims trying to get home.
"A lot of my neighbors here in Cobble Hill were driving around and organizing car pools to bring the refugees to the Atlantic Avenue train station and other places where they could catch a train," said Gian Trotta. "And I saw some kids from the projects at Red Hook walking up to give blood at Long Island College Hospital."
Blood donors who showed up at hospitals were eager to help out the same way.
"At 11a.m. today, I could not stand watching the TV any longer and I told the people in my office that I was walking over to NYU Medical Center to give blood," said Joshua Glantz. "Six people followed me and we gathered more people on the 20-minute walk. It was depressing but also heartening to see people turn in their tracks to join our group. When we got to the hospital, we found an eight-hour wait to give blood."
Across the Hudson River in New Jersey, blood donor lines wound around Hackensack Medical Center, too -- in fact, the hospital was so flooded with donors that a remote donor station was in the works at a nearby church in Wood-Ridge, N.J.
Outside the city, thousands of Netizens began to hunt for ways to help during the crisis. Soon after word came that all flights at U.S. airports had been grounded, offers flooded in for free housing for the night.
"We are 30 minutes from Salt Lake Airport," Greg Smith wrote to a Princeton University alumni newsletter. "Plenty of room for stranded travelers and we can do an airport run to pick anyone up."
Graham Doran made the same offer for folks in San Francisco: "Plenty of couch space. Already picked up one guest, can handle a couple of more," Doran said.
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MSNBC: Officials: Not likely U.S. action
CNN is reporting on TV that there are explosions in Kabul, Afghanistan
From MSNBC
Officials: Not likely U.S. action
May be Taliban opposition -
Another WTC building in NY has collapsed
According to MSNBC 40 story WTC 7 has come down as well. I tried to find more info on there page but there doesn't appear to be any. Please post more infomation or other links if you have them.
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MSNBC: Nuclear Retaliation "Not Off The Table"From MSNBC:
THE SCALE of the attacks and the loss of life -- mostly in New York City's World Trade Center, but also in Pittsburgh and Washington -- ensured that "no option has been taken off the table," senior U.S. officials said. Asked if that included nuclear weapons, one senior official said: "I said no option is out of the question. That's precisely what I mean."
Further:
Among the options under active consideration:
Major retaliatory airstrikes: The United States could strike at Afghanistan with missile strikes -- possibly even tactical nuclear weapons -- to demonstrate its anger and the grave consequences of such an attack on U.S. soil.
The entire article is copied below.
U.S. pondering its response
'No options taken off the table' -- senior U.S. official
By Michael Moran
MSNBC
Sept. 11 -- Reeling from the most devastating day of terrorist attacks in history, President George W. Bush and his advisors struggled on Tuesday to devise a response that would convey the depth of the outrage felt across the United States without appearing to lash out blindly.
THE SCALE of the attacks and the loss of life -- mostly in New York City's World Trade Center, but also in Pittsburgh and Washington -- ensured that "no option has been taken off the table," senior U.S. officials said. Asked if that included nuclear weapons, one senior official said: "I said no option is out of the question. That's precisely what I mean."
The nature and precision of the attacks, along with their unknown origin, left the United States with no useful precedents or contingency plans to fall back on. Procedurally, the attacks prompted officials to institute safeguards consistent with a state of war: Airspace over major American cities was cleared of commercial traffic and replaced by military interceptors; large, obvious targets like the White House, Capitol building, the Disney theme parks in Florida and California and the Sears Tower in Chicago, were evacuated. Most tellingly, the president, vice president, congressional leaders and other key government officials were spirited to secure, undisclosed locations -- an indication that the attacks achieved an astounding degree of surprise.
Indeed, many officials echoed the words of the U.S. Atlantic Fleet's commander, Navy Adm. Robert J. Natter: "We have been attacked like we haven't been attacked since Pearl Harbor." He then dispatched aircraft carriers to the waters off New York and Washington -- an unprecedented step -- to provide air cover.
HIGH ALERT
The United States military and its diplomatic organs quickly ordered steps consistent with imminent action.
President Bush placed American military commands around the world, including North American Air Defense Command, or NORAD, on their highest level of alert. Air Force One, carrying Bush, landed briefly at Offutt Air Force Base in Nebraska, the home of Strategic Air Command, the nation's nuclear war fighting command, as well as the so-called "doomsday plane," a flying command post meant for use in case of a nuclear attack on America.
Ambassadors of the world's most powerful military alliance, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, scheduled an emergency meeting for 5 p.m. ET to discuss the crisis at NATO headquarters in Brussels, Belgium.
While no public accusations of blame were made by the U.S. government, senior officials, along with experts on terrorism, were unanimous in their belief that the attacks were the work of Osama bin Laden, the Saudi exile who leads the shadowy Al-Qaeda terrorist organization. "No one else but Bin Laden has the capability to do this is Bin Laden," one senior intelligence official said. "No one."
Bin Laden is living in Afghanistan as a guest of the Islamic regime there, the Taliban. The United States already has warned the Taliban that any act of terrorism on American soil by bin Laden or his followers would be regarded as an act of war.
That said, exactly how to hit out at bin Laden has been a continuing problem for the United States. U.S. intelligence agencies once tracked his movements within Afghanistan fairly reliably by eavesdropping on cell phone communications. Bin Laden has long since stopped using cell phones and is now said to sleep in a different safe house each night. Three years ago, after the dual bombings at American embassies in Kenya and Mozambique were tied to Al-Qaeda, the United States launched Tomahawk cruise missiles at suspected bin Laden training camps in Afghanistan and a plant in Sudan the CIA suspected of ties with him. Neither air strike did much to dissuade him. The U.S. suspects bin Laden's hand behind the April 2000 attack on the USS destroyer Cole in Yemen.
MILITARY OPTIONS
As President Bush weighs options, the difficulty of pinpointing bin Laden -- if in fact the United States decides he is responsible -- presents a dilemma. Among the options under active consideration:
Major retaliatory airstrikes: The United States could strike at Afghanistan with missile strikes -- possibly even tactical nuclear weapons -- to demonstrate its anger and the grave consequences of such an attack on U.S. soil.
Military invasion: The president could declare war on Afghanistan and order a buildup of forces similar to that which preceded the Gulf War in 1990. Such a move, however, would require the acquiescence of a neighboring state -- either Pakistan or one of the former Soviet Central Asian nations.
Manhunt: The Army's Delta Force or other assets could be inserted into Afghanistan to hunt down Bin Laden.
Proxy action: The United States could exert extreme diplomatic pressure on Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, two states that have supported the Afghan Taliban in the past, to bring Bin Laden to justice.
'NO EASY ANSWERS'
Each and every one of these options has drawbacks, however, and those potential pitfalls will animate the debates of the coming days within the U.S. national security establishment. For instance, the use of nuclear weapons, in any form, risks alienating a world that is almost united in its revulsion at such attacks -- and whose help will be necessary in preventing future such attacks.
"The worst thing we can do is to completely lose our cool and overreact," said Sean Anderson, domestic terrorism expert at Idaho State University who studied the Oklahoma City bombing and the first attack on the World Trade Center in 1993.
"The best thing we can do is carry on, not to depart from our ordinary constitutional legal processes ... get the markets open today and carry on with our lives."
Indeed, it is quite possible the United States will refrain from any immediate action until investigators have time to more thoroughly make the case against whoever directed the attack.
"There are not a lot of easy answers," former Secretary of State James Baker told NBC News. "The president, I think, did the right thing when he said 'we're under terrorist attack and we're going to hunt down those responsible.' "
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Re:News Links
Don't paint all the mid-East with one brush. This terrorist attack was the action of a very, very small radical group that is roundly despised by many mid-East civilians.
Very true, and, while I sincerely hope the U.S. identifies those responsible and narrowly targets any retaliation, many mid-East civilians also celebrated the attack, according to this article:
However, in the West Bank city of Nablus, thousands of Palestinians celebrated the attack by chanting "God is Great!" and distributing candy to passers-by.
I know I cannot begin to understand the suffering and depth of feeling on all sides in the Middle East, but I am truly saddened by the photo of children with flags celebrating the deaths of others (including, most likely, other children), and, no matter how hard I try, I cannot imagine a God who would condone such a tragedy.
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CNN Trimmed
CNN, MSNBC, and Washington Post have all trimmed their UI's to make the sites load faster...
FYI: Good luck
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Static URL To Get Into MSNBC
For those of you who can't reach MSNBC directly, Visit This Link it's a static page with good response times.
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MSNBC Report
From MSNBC: here NEW YORK, Sept. 11 -- Two aircraft slammed into the World Trade Center in New York on Tuesday, in what was immediately speculated to be a terrorist attack. The FBI reported that a hijacking might have taken place just before the crashes. Police and ambulances were rushing to the scene. THE AIRCRAFT struck about a half hour apart, starting fires and sending smoke billowing out of the skyscrapers. The first crash happened shortly before 9 a.m. ET. MSNBC.com reporter Martin Wolk, who was inside one of the towers, said the lights flickered and then a loud bang was heard. People panicked and started to flee the building. When they reached the lobby, smoke started to fill the building and people could see debris falling and many cars outside were damaged. "It was sheer pandemonium, people were screaming and crying, afraid to go outside because of the falling debris," Wolk said. "We looked up and it looked like the top 20 floors were in flames." Another bystander described a barrage of debris raining down on the sidewalk below. Advertisement About 9 a.m., a second aircraft was seen crashing into the other tower. Broadcast cameras already watching the scene filmed the second plane ram the tower. Large holes were visible in sides of the 110-story buildings. The tops of the twin towers were obscured by the smoke. Thousands of pieces of what appeared to be office paper came drifting over Brooklyn, about three miles from the tower, one witness said. Terrorism was speculated given that the center was bombed on Feb. 26, 1993, killing six people and injured more than 1,000 others. The FBI said it was investigating reports of a hijacking. A United Airlines employee said he had heard reports that an American Airlines jet had been hijacked and was one of the two aircraft that flew into the center. It was not clear if there were passengers on board. New York airports and the Lincoln Tunnel reportedly were closed as a precautionary measure
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MSNBC Article
here is the MSNBC article relating to this story.
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Other Articles
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Re:Wait a minute...For all of you responding to my post, it may not have even been Ashcroft's direct decision to remove the breakup remedy from the DOJ's case. Surely he would have notified of such a significant change in the case strategy, but I'm sure that if he disagreed the DOJ lawyers would have kept the option. In other words, it may have simply been the DOJ lawyers that made the decision, possibly choosing to go after other (more likely) remedies (after all, the appeals court already rejected the breakup remedy once), such as releasing the Windows source code in the event of further anti-competitive behavior.
A more in-depth article is here
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Re:I've already posted this, but..
Bush is the head of the Bush administration, so one can presume that it was him that made the decision.
This MSNBC story cites an anonymous DOJ official saying the president did not make the call:
The official also said that the White House was not involved in the decision not to pursue a break up of the company.
I'm not sure where the idea that Bush killed the breakup push came from, but it isn't implied in any of the stories linked on the front page. -
M$ and related XP prices
Microsoft holds back on its prices despite demand for Windows XP
Intresting quote from article: Of course, analysts point out that computer makers probably wouldn't stand for a price increase right now, with their margins under so much pressure. Then again, Microsoft is always free to raise prices later -- no matter what the computer makers think. "What are they going to do, put Linux on their machines?" asked Greg Vogel, who follows Microsoft for Banc of America Securities.