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Strange... I've encoded all my music using Ogg Vorbis and I successfully play it on my proprietary IRiver player and through my proprietary DVR software (ShowShifter using free Directshow filters).

Commercial Products and Services:

ReplayTV: TiVo's ancient nemesis, it also 'just works'. I can't say whether it is more user friendly than TiVo, but it is far more customer friendly.

Windows XP Media Center Edition: Yes, them. Choose from multiple manufacturers but expect to face Microsoft Corp's version of the 'personal' computing experience.

Hardware vendors are now pushing DVD/HD Recording devices quite a bit. RCA, Motorola and Panasonic have products available.

Service Providers like Comcast and DishTV are now providing time shifting hardware and tv-on-demand solutions. Check with your choice of cable or satellite service provider.

Hobbyist Solutions:

MythTV: The Open Source, Do-It-Yourself DVR. Expect to build your own machine and play around a bit before it works the way you want. (Linux)

Freevo: MythTV, but not. (Linux)

MediaPortal: Who ever said Open Source was limited to Linux software? (Windows)

Meedio: It was a community based freeware product (myHTPC) that morphed into a commercial product without warning. Still a reasonable alternative to Microsoft for PVR function on the Windows platform. (Windows)

eyeTV: This Mac product has me seriously considering picking up a Mini-Mac to use as a media center. (Apple)

SnapStream (Windows)

SageTV (Windows)

Chris-TV (Windows)

ShowShifter (Windows)

On a personal note, I purchased the ReplayTV when it was first released and am entirely satisfied with it. Plus, by purchasing early I have never had to pay a subscription fee for data that is freely available elsewhere. If there had been a subscription fee I would not have purchased it.

Dan

First of all, MythTV and Mediaportal are not competitors. Not yet. For them to be true competitors, they need to just work out of the box. Don't get me wrong, they're great products, but they're not true competitors in the average consumer market, just like Gentoo Linux is not a competitor with Windows XP.

And the other two products mentioned are not real competitors. If you hate "Microsoft bloatware", these are not the products for you. From the Snapstream Beyond TV System Requirements page:

• Microsoft Windows XP Home, XP Professional or 2000
• DirectX 9.0 or greater

• Windows 98, ME, 2000 or XP
• DirectX 9.0 Runtime or later
• Windows Media Player 7.1 or later

If Media Center Edition fails, it will be because of price and competition from the cable companies, not because of competing software. Users who buy media center PCs will stick with Windows Media CEnter Edition, because that's what it'll come with. Just like people stick with XP Home, because that's what came on their computers.

Consumers want something that just works. Hobbyists, enthusiasts, and power users may be interested in picking their own TV tuner card, and setting up MythTV, but they do not form a large percentage of the market. You have people now who have Tivos because they "just work". Tivo made something that looks like a VCR and has a remote, and that (combined with cable and satellite companies giving them away for free) more than anything is what will kill windows MCE.

From what I've read about Microsoft MCE and all of its DRM and content restrictions, I have to agree with both of these articles.

The average consumer (again, they're the ones who influence the market, not us) doesn't care about DRM, yet. They can play their CDs in the car or on their stereo - it doesn't matter if they can't rip them to MP3.

However, ironically, MCE may be the thing that wakes up Joe Consumer to the dangers of DRM. If this doesn't, the broadcast flag of HDTV might. Currently, if Joe Consumer misses a show, he can stick a tape in the VCR. And even tape the game, despite the NFL telling him not to. When he fires up his Media Center PC, and hits record, and gets a message saying "You are not allowed to do this", there's going to be a huge backlash. But we're not there yet.

I once started building a MythTV-based PVR, based on a VIA EPIA board and using a WinTV PVR 350. I'm by no means a Linux newbie, but oh my god did this suck. From non-accelerated X drivers for the integrated video to randomly crashing mythtv backends, I've seen it all. After trying with no success for 2 weeks, I formatted the machine, installed Windows and bought a copy of ShowShifter.. I was up and running in ten minutes and it's been working ever since. I'd rather just spend $60 for a working solution then keep on fiddling with MythTV for weeks and missing all my shows in the meantime.

-milkki

In countries like Australia (where I live), where it isn't offered. Sadly, with only 20 million people in the land, companies like Tivo say that it's unprofitable for them to try to produce an Australian model. So we have to make one ourselves out of bits of bared wire, fishhooks, soup cans and whatever comes to hand. This is why I'm interested in this thread!

I've also downloaded a trial version of ShowShifter and that comes with plug-ins for Australian programming. Since the TV card I have (LeadTek WinTV 2000 XP, fairly popular here) doesn't seem to be listed under the 'supported products' list of either ShowShifter, freevo or even Video4Linux, so on the whole it doesn't look very promising for us Antipodeans...

Paul

Showshifter.

I don't think you will be watching a DVD on this 'media PC'. I didn't see anything in the specs about it having a DVD drive.

Well, I didn't see anything in the main article myself, as it was Slashdotted before I could get to it, but if you'd have followed the link to Zeus computers posted earlier in this thread (here), you'd have seen that it indeed does support an "optical drive". Last I checked, DVD drives were indeed optical.

I priced out building a miniATX entertainment system... the price works out to around $650

That sounds about right. I built a PVR system about a year and a half ago and spent around $600-$700, using an AMD 1600+ CPU, and a 8500DV video card.

My system still works great (using the awsome Showshifter software to drive the entire thing (Check it out here), but now that I've upgraded my primary system to include a DVD burner (Sony 4x - Nice!), I find my system struggling to record at 704x480 resolution, so I've began to look into a CPU upgrade. This system however might meet my needs. Just toss a P4 CPU into it along w/my existing memory and video card and it looks like I'm good to go.

I certainly don't see it as the over-priced CD Player that you appear to.

One area I would love to know more about is the periphreals... While a shuttle job controller is very cool, how would it tie in with existing software (The aforementioned Showshifter, or even Freevo, for example).

How would the Tuner tie in w/the system, or does it? Perhaps it's just a standalone tune w/audio outs to plug into a soundcard??

If anyone has more details regarding these items, or the heat dispertion of this unit, please post them.

Why would you want to pay for a monthly subscription to TIVO anyway when there a many FREE services that only require you to make a one time purchase... or no purchase at all...

Windows Based
Snapstream PVR
ShowShifter

Linux Based
Myth TV
Linux PVR Depot"

I have built my own PVR from scratch and the cost was comparable with a TIVO. Those packages offer many of the same features found in TIVO and ReplayTV... Plus, you can integrate them very easily into a home automation system or home network.

- Slew -

I've built a PC for use as a VCR which uses a ATI Radeon 8500DV video card. This card is nice for a varitey of reasons, but one of the main strenghts (for me) is that it comes with a connector supporting a variety of inputs and outputs.

By the way, you could basically do this with any decent/modern/1Ghz+ system & the aforementioned video card -Or one similar to it (The ATI 7500's a reputable alternative). But anyway...

In my case I've got a variety of peripherals tied into my 8500 via a Video Switcher (example: $50 ), and I run the output of this switcher through a signal enhancer (example: $50) before it's ran into the 8500's S-Video input.

One of the things connected via the switcher is a nice 4-head stereo VCR. By running the VCR through the enhancer, I can get quite good copies of video tapes.

Similarly, by running Showshifter (or another PVR / recording package -But Showshifter has some really nice DivX capabilities built in), I'm able to automatically encode the VCR's output as a stereo, high-quality DivX file in real time.

Or you could use any other video codec really. If it was something you wanted to edit, or preserve at high quality, you could record in a non-lossy codec, edit as needed in a video editor (Virtual Dub's a good place to start), and then encode down to a DivX (or again... Any codec. AVI, Mpeg, DivX, or even... Windows Media Format).

A side bonus of running the video switch through the enhancer is that a DVD player's output can be piped through and recorded as the enhancer removes the copy-protection. Not that I'd ever hook a DVD player up to my video switch to find this out (or to record a few rented DVD's for that matter), but one could do so if one wanted too.

Either way, the resulting video files can either be converted to VCD or SVCD (These both are burned onto regular CD's, with the former fitting slightly more, lower-resolution video on the CD than the latter. Both are also playable in the majority of modern DVD players), or DVD (self-explanatory) formats via programs such as Nero . I'm not an expert on the lifetime degredation of either CD or DVD media, but both are arguably going to be around and in good shape longer than some old VHS tapes.

Another option is to burn them as data files onto any of the aforementioned media, and set them up with an autorun software package so that your intended viewers can just pop it in a PC and go (another up and coming option here). Doing it this way offers the capability to save higher resolution video, but it also requires that your viewers view it either on a PC, or on a TV connected to a PC. There's some other pros and cons as well, but that's the basics from my point of view.

For archiving old VHS footage, I would reccomend recording the video via a method similar to what I've described above, and then outputting the footage as a regular old DVD. DVD's can support... what is it? 704x480 or something like that, and that's way higher than the 320x200 or whatever that standard TV broadcasts at (and this is likely the resolution you'd have on VHS tapes, I'm guessin'). This would ensure you wouldn't have to lose much if any quality, and the resulting footage will be viewable either on a consumer DVD player, or on a PC via a DVD drive, which are more or less standard these days.

Similarly, with 4x DVD burners hitting the "below $300" market, it's a good investment as you can back up your other data and videos when you're done archiving tapes. If that's not enough, you'll also be able to sample the

Showshifter's extras page (part-way down) lists a few products they interface to to do exactly what you want to do, from Windows. You'll have to dig through a few links to work out what suits, but it should make a good starting point.

From the Hacking the Tivo FAQ , here are several programs for windows.

Ligos: Windows based PTV.
PowerVCR: Windows based VCR.
WinVCR: Windows based VCR.
SnapStream: Windows based PTV (freeware and commercial version).
ShowShifter: Windows based PTV (freeware).
VideoLAN is an open source, multi OS video streaming program.

Thanks for the link, I'll check that out.

Right now I'm using showshifter for my media box, and I like it, but I really like the looks of myHTPC, and the price is right.

Have you been using it for long? How convoluted is the set-up. Do you have to manually add the info for those pretty screenshots, or is their a flawless interface with IMDB databases? In short, whats the user experience like?

..and I never knew that Bob Marley did the soundtrack to pulp fiction.. Any idea why those songs and album info dont match in this screenshot?

So long, OS X and whatever media packages are available for Linux, it was nice knowing you.

ShowShifter.

It is the only PCTV software package available that does not 1) include spyware 2) include DRM or 3) require the use of a keyboard to gain *all* functionality. Although HDTV support isn't there yet, there are deinterlacing plug-ins available for progressive display of non-HDTV content.

If people would lobby them into Linux support, you could build your own Tivo for very little. And you get all of the benefits of open video format standards...

I used to have an All-In-Wonder Pro (back in the days of the Rage IIc chipset.... when 4mb of video ram was a lot, and AGP was brand new).

Anyway... Back then, there was no such thing as PVR software (not 3rd-party, anyway). Now there's a few like Showshifter and SnapStream PVS...

My question is, does anyone know if there are any PVRs that will automatically edit out commercials when they appear in a TV show? I seem to recall that TiVos used to (or still do it)... Surely there must be PC equivalents, no? Checking around on the websites of both Showshifter and Snapstream, though, they don't make any explicit mention of the ability to NOT record commercials...

It's got a big, colorful UI just like TIVO and now can handle recording from listings. (And I believe it works with listings all over the world. It definitely works in Ireland, UK, and USA -- I bet it'll work in Canada.)

ShowShifter is really cool. It uses DivX pro to record, can be programmed to record just like a TIVO, and doesn't cost a penny beyond the initial purchase -- which is quite cheap for what it offers (US$49 for the standard version, $79 for the pro version with DivxPro).

>Most of us normal people are still doing fine with 12g hard drives...

I suppose you haven't yet attained a high enough education level to combine the idea of a video capture card and the idea of time shifting into a workable idea on a computer.

Fortunately, someone already has for you.

None of this software holds a candle to Showshifter. Easily the best PVR software for windows. You can do any of the options talked about in the article and you're not locked into any single codec like MPEG-2 or any proprietary remote control. One of the problems mentioned was the quick use of hard drive space which can easily happen when using MPEG-2. With showshifter you control the codec used. DivX or WMV8 sure do a better job at keeping the file sizes down than MPG. I've used this software for over a year and am very happy. If you plan on trying to use your PC/TV as a PVR you should take the time to evaluate Showshifter, just like the reporter should have. I think he might have had a better experience.

-Mike

Computer based PVRs are looking better and better.

Try out ShowShifter.

Yikes! I installed SnapStream 2 weeks ago and couldn't get it to do a damn thing on my machine (WinXP, ATI Radeon VE, ATI TV Wonder VE). I uninstalled it after it didn't record as scheduled, or at all manually.

Of course, ATI's MMC is no great shakes either.

Right now, I'm using ShowShifter. It's not perfect, but does nicely in full-screen mode, using a wireless optical mouse to control it. They promise big improvements in the next upgrade, including programming via TitanTV. If they deliver, I'll gladly pay the $50.

I have a Radeon All-in-one, and while I agree that the ATI software is not strong, I simply use ShowShifter for the TV stuff.

It is a great piece of software-- works really well on a regular TV as well.. combined with a logitech wireless keyboard and a B & O TV, and I'm a happy tv watcher.

It even recompresses your recordings in the background so you can do archiving of your sheduled shows..

I can't afford a TiVo myself, although I would love one. I do have a software solution on a PC however.

I use Showshifter from http://www.showshifter.com to watch, record and pause tv. Add Digiguide from http://www.digiguide.co.uk to this, and you now have the option to click on a program and choose "record in showshifter". Using an ATI all-in-wonder 128 card I can output the whole lot to my TV, and showshifter can use my remote control. Showshifter can also play back DVD's, CD's and MP3's, although it does need some improvement.

The cost of this? Five pounds per year for digiguide. The main drawback is that this software is only available under windows, but I do most of my work on other computers running linux and irix, so it's not too big a problem.

All in all I get slightly more functionality than a TiVo, but at a cost of being more complicated and having far more wires. I also hate to think of the total cost including the PC, but I already had that. I think what I really want is not a TiVo, but a PC in a low profile black case that can sit on top of my video. Armed with showshifter and digiguide ported to linux, I would end up with a far more functional box. I think I have just given myself a project to work on, haven't I.....

Steve.

I have found this program ShowShifter to work 10x better then SnapStream. With showshifter you can pause live TV, and pick up where you left off (No rewind though). And (A plus over SnapStream) you can watch as you record. It (like SnapStream) offers timed recordings, however can not currently download tv listings. The "trial" version ShowShifter is also less naggy, and more functional then the trial version of snapstream. Check it out. (Also only Windows).

Try something like: ShowShifter or SnapStream which can make a TV-card enabled Windows PC into a PVR.

Sounds like you could use a laptop and Show Shifter. This allows you to use it as a PVR, play MP3's. You could always download some sort of MP3 / DVD ripper / encoder. Use this with IrMan and any remote. And you have pretty much the same thing.

Plus with a laptop you can take it to your friends and move it anywhere else in the house. And any recorded shows can be watched on the move.

As much as people want to hack these sort of boxes, I wonder why more people don't put together their own.

On the windows side I've found ShowShifter, which does pretty much everything, provided you have a supported card (which is stupid, the whole point of having drivers is so you don't have to worry about what the specific hardware is). Even supports the use of an IR remote control.

I've tried ShowShifter and its pretty slick, although it has difficult with my Matrox G200TV, as the closest model it supports is the G400TV. Still, very nice to see a commercial product that runs on standard hardware and doesn't require a subscription.

The biggest complaints against using regular PCs for this that I've run across are the noise of the fan and the look of the case. Noise is easily addressed with high quality fans, insulation and placement. Look? Well, hide it, or customize it I guess.

The other drawback is lack of a directory service. I'd be suprised if some scripting work and an internet connection couldn't take care of that tho.

So, what are some more options for the DIYer? ShowShifter is pretty complete, but windows and propritary. Any GPL solutions that are reasonably complete and don't require excessive hacking to get a setup similar to the commercial products?

256M ram - $40

• Radeon (Windows solution) comes with TV on demand software that is free to use thanks to the Guide Plus+(TM) TV listings broadcast in North America.
• Hauppauge WinTV-PVR
• ShowShifter - a Windows-based software package for ATI, Hauppauge, and Matrox capture cards.
• SnapStream (as previously mentioned by someone else
• The Linux solutions can be found at VCR-HOWTO or linuxtv.org

I'm sorry, I have ZERO sympathy for the guy who wants to dial in to set his clock yet not pay for TiVo service.

First thing is if you set up a shell on your TiVo, you can connect from another PC and set your time manually. You never need to dial TiVo again.

Second, come on. The guy *KNEW* that TiVo expects a subscription. How can he rationally expect TiVo to be a viable company without subscriptions?

Third, if he wants TiVo-like functionality, he could have saved a bit on his $400 investment. Buy an ATI Radeon All-in-Wonder or a Hauppauge card. There are others as well.

• The Radeon (Windows solution) comes with TV on demand software - Radeon features - that are free to use thanks to the Guide Plus+(TM) TV listings broadcast in North America.
  
  
• the Hauppauge (Windows solution) - Hauppauge WinTV-PVR - even boasts about burning a show to CDR for watching on your DVD player - something TiVO CANNOT do.
  
  
• ShowShifter - a Windows-based software package for ATI, Hauppauge, and Matrox capture cards.
  
  
• The Linux solution can be found at VCR-HOWTO or linuxtv.org

Try showshifter. I have been using this for a while with my ATI All In Wonder 128 and it works well. It even integrates with Digiguide to let me record a program by clicking on a program in the listing.
I have a computer next to the TV so that I can use the PC pretty much as a TIVO, with automatic program recording and pausing of live TV.
Unfortunately Digiguide and Showshifter are only available for Windows so I am on the look out for Linux replacements, as well as a decent Linux DVD player.

Steve.

As with all other similar solutions (ShowShifter, Telemman HiPix, Hauppage WinTV PVR & HD, AccessDTV, etc), what will make or break this product is the level of integration, and the quality of the SW. So far, the integration with existing A/V equipment has been rather poor. The Destination had to use expensive Computer-IR out transceivers to control your cable/satellite box and VCR, plus the input remote (and I think they never got the SW quite right), and most solutions right now don't offer any kind of IR control integration.

Currently, SnapStream is working on adding more support for this type of integration. John Vanderbeck is leading an Open Source project (IRTuner) to support multiple IR out transcievers. He has written a driver to use the ActiSys 200L (~$65) from SnapStream. He is working on adding support for the RedRat2, and future candidates are the CiR and LIRC. We are also looking into integrating with Girder, making the interface available to other applications beside SnapStream, and adding more functionality and in general, making it easier to turn your PC into a real A/V integration tool...

Yes it's for windows (and not free) - but showshifter looks to be very much like the software you need.

It does the Tivo thing too...

I'm currently trying to scrape together a box to do the same - but I'm trying to find an off the shelf case that's small enough. Looks like I might have to make my own though.

But as you say, the question isn't, "Can people stream TV shows over the net?" but, "Why would people want to stream TV shows over the net?" Addressing the second question will make the first moot. I know I'd much rather pay a buck or two to get a professionally-made digital copy of my favorite TV show straight from the source than try to track it down online, download half of it only to have the person who's serving it drop off the net, and then realize that whoever digitized it had no clue how to work their compression software.

Lazy? Make 'em links!

PureDiva: Software only bundled with complete PC's. http://www.purediva.com

Ligos: Windows based PTV. http://www.ligos.com/news/pr_timeshift.html

PowerVCR: Windows based VCR. http://www.cyberlink.com.tw/english/products/power vcr2/powervcr2.asp

WinVCR: Windows based VCR. http://www.cinax.com/Products/winvcr.html

SnapStream: Windows based PTV (freeware and commercial version). http://www.snapstream.com

ShowShifter: Windows based PTV (freeware). http://www.showshifter.com

There have been several posts asking "why can't I do this on my PC?", so I thought it best to put this out here. There is a software-based Tivo-like program called ShowShifter at www.showshifter.com that is in beta. No linux version yet, but the bits and pieces for a linux recorder are already there-- there are linux drivers for the very common BT848 video-capture chipset and software for encoding, as well as nifty scheduling tools like cron. If somebody wrapped it up in a nice GUI, we'd already be done!