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Tivo Institutes 1 Year Service Contracts
azoblue writes "TiVo recently changed their customer agreement, allowing them to institute service contracts with early cancellation fees." From the article: "According to the new service agreement, any TiVo activated after September 6 will require a 12-month commitment. Those who cancel before the end of their contract, or have their contracts terminated by TiVo, will be forced to pay a $150 early termination fee ... Although not specified in the new agreement, some customers have reported that adding a new TiVo to their service makes contracts activated before that date also applicable to the new policy."
This seems reasonable, a way to have guaranteed revenue stream and a penalty for people who cancel early.
I was flirting with getting a tivo, but have reconsidered. I already have a DVD recorder, and as much of a pain as it is, I'm going to build a mythtv box. Tivo obviously does not care about their consumers, only about money and fellating hollywood.
I hate sigs.
According to the new service agreement, any TiVo activated after September 6 will require a 12-month commitment. Those who cancel before the end of their contract, or have their contracts terminated by TiVo, will be forced to pay a $150 early termination fee.
Well, with rebates that bring the devices under $50 and their recent radically retarded decisions such as presenting ads to users that bought a Tivo to rid themselves of ads, etc, it's no wonder they are going to these lengths!
I was the first to support Tivo for what their device and service did for my household. I am also the first to complain to Tivo and Slashdot (and various others including my parents who I had originally suggested a Tivo) that their service is no longer worth it.
Good riddance Tivo. While I still use your product (DirecTivo), I'm glad I'm not obligated to fall under any of your contractual and flighty mishaps.
Digital cable (even basic cable) is getting extremely high priced, and this is with no DVR style record feature. Not keen on a satelite dish either, heard some horror stories from other family members and friends.
TiVo looked great, record what you want when you want so you never miss something. Skip commericals (bout frakking time) and more. Now they've taken some ancient MSN/AOL type deal where you gotta have a service plan contract? Sorry, no thank you.
What if something where to happen where you couldn't afford that TiVo every month? (Granted yes money management saves alot but anyone can fall on tough times), you suddenly gotta cough up $150 flat fee cause you needed to save a few monthly payments and use it for gas or food? Yea, that'll go over real well.
Watch for a slow rise in the bittorrent community in the coming year or so as more TiVo like providers probably switch to similar "plans".
Aw Frell this
TiVo - Take(ing) back your TV
If you're reading this, stop it.
I guess this makes sense in a way. But with competitors, wouldn't this cause some potential customers to back away? Once someone buys a Tivo, I'd think they'd stick with the Tivo service over changing to another company. So this affects new customers mostly, who might be scared away.
According to this article the company has been able to silently (and with no-opt-out policy) upgrade the TiVo to include the red flag stuff(some shows can be delete or not retained more than 7 days...you know..)
Very..."unconfortable"...
From boing boing:
Earlier this month, TiVo owners discovered that a mandatory, non-optional "update" to their TiVos changed the built-in software so that broadcasters could flag certain shows for automatic deletion and for restriction from use with TiVoToGo. David Zatz, a TiVo owner, decided to cancel his TiVo service. After all, he'd bought a device that could record all shows, not one that could record all shows save those that some paranoid Hollywood exec, overzealous broadcaster, or fumble-fingered technician gave him permission to record. TiVo had broken his device and he didn't want to keep using it. But when he looked up canceling his TiVo, he found out that under the terms of his "agreement" with TiVo (e.g., the crap he clicked through when get got set up), he was obliged to pay a $150 "early cancellation" fee.
Apple iProduct. Non importa cosa sia, lo comprerete!
This is why you shouldn't use Tivo. If you have one replace it with one from a different manufacturer. If you are thinking about buying one get any but tivo several posts here offer alternatives. If Tivo is driven out of business by their customers based on their abusive policies it will be a stern warning to those who follow!
"GET / HTTP/1.0" 200 51230 "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; Setec Astronomy)"
Just a change in business plans, RTFA. Tivo is giving deep discounts and rebates for the hardware. $50 for a Tivo means that they *have* to get a service commitment to break even.
Nothing new here, move along...
"Eve of Destruction", it's not just for old hippies anymore...
...Are they trying to get rid of their customers?
I mean, a few years ago, Tivo was a wonderful, one-of-a-kind service. Back then, maybe something like this would fly. But now, with virtually every cable company out there offering their own DVRs, the novelty of having a tivo has pretty much worn off. Sure, nobody's DVR can match the ease of use or features of a Tivo, but I don't think a tivo is worth the $150 price premium they're imposing on their users.
I have two Tivos, a 40 hour and a 140 hour. I have them cuz they 'just work', and I haven't gotten around to building a stable MythTV box yet. I'm also a Tivo Rewards member, with 6 referrals under my belt. With this new pricing strategy, those two Tivos will be the last I ever buy, and I'll never recommend a Tivo to anybody again.
What they're doing is the same as the cell phone companies have done for years here in the US. They reduce the price of the phone to below wholesale to get you to sign up, then they get you to stay by signing the 1 year contract. You might be able to get out of signing a contract if you pay full price for the Tivo...
Every time you call tech support, a little kitten dies.
I have a MythTV box and I'm tired of maintaining it (Gentoo-based VIA EPIA 1.0ghz C3 Nehemiah utilizing Hauppauge PVR 250). I value my time and I hate tinkering with the system to keep it working (e.g., NTP won't run as often as it should, so my recordings are off by 20-30 secs and I have to login and manually run ntpdate).
I really want to sell the whole thing that cost me over $400 to build and switch to a Tivo. With Tivo, I could spend $200 on a box (get $150 back in a rebate) and pay $14/mo for service. Sounds good so far. This 1-yr contract doesn't bother me as much (like with my cell phone) as long as the thing works. The only real worry is the DRM and the fact that they control their service from afar.
I know people are going to say "blah blah, this is why you should switch to MythTV." Has anyone been successful in prototyping a Mythbox (such that it just works for long periods of time without having to worry about tweaks and workarounds)? If so, please tell me how.
Otherwise, I'm afraid Tivo seems the better way to go if you value your free time.
They're giving 150 rebate for new users so that a tivo box only costs 50 dollars, they're gonna execute that 150 fee back at those people if they cancel.
That being said, maybe they think people will just bend over and take it, since their sattelite dishes and cable TV usually requires a service contract too.
Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
Wow, this is like Digg three days later.
Anyways, the service contracts seem to be for those customers who get the rebate from TiVo, in order to ensure that TiVo doesn't lose money offering up $150 rebates to new customers.
It's TiVo's marketshare to lose anyways.
Error 407 - No creative sig found
Though I guess the feeling here is "then just don't do it" - a popular argument with slave owners.
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
Also, what's the status of being able to skip over commercials? Is this still allowed or has it been significantly changed from the way it was originally? Might this new 12-month commitment presage an end to being able to skip commercials? (So that people can't end their service penalty-free when they realize one of the major functions of TiVo is no more).
And under what conditions can TiVo terminate your contract? Failure to pay your bill on time? Hacking the TiVo? Still having the recording of Janet's boob on it? Or what?
My almost five-year-old ReplayTV is starting to show its age. I don't have the free time or the inclination to build a MythTV box.
What is the current state of the art in High Definition DVRs? I know that TiVo put one out about a year and a half ago, but stories like this make me hesitant to deal with TiVo.
I have DirecTV, which means that if I use 'their' DVR, I'm still using a TiVo. (right?)
Mostly, what I want is:
1) Ability to do with HDTV the same thing I can do with SDTV today -- time shift, pause, skip over commercials, etc (I love the 30-second and 7-second buttons on my Replay!)
2) Not difficult to export for archiving on DVD
3) Handles over-the-air HDTV as well as what might come down the pipe from DirecTV
Any suggestions?
I have to wonder how they plan on enforcing a termination fee? Isn't the punishment for not paying things like that the termination of your service? Will they give you super-no-service if you don't pay the termination fee? I must be missing something...
It looks like a good idea to me... they lock people in for 12 months, so that after they have made it so people can only record shows for up to 30 seconds, they will not be able to quit, without paying. That way, they have to live with it for a while, and by the end of there contract, they do not release they are out of that contract, so they just keep paying, with a device that the company has "upgraded" to the point of not doing anything. Some of these companies make me sick.
"It's come to our attention lately that we still have some customers, and we're not going to stop until this situation is fixed!"
HR10-250 High Def DirecTiVo is the answer.
I was interested in getting one after my current VCR dies, but its price and subscription price bothered me. Now, this termination fee!
I can get Replay, but I heard it has subscription fee too.
MythTV is nice, but I don't have time to set it up and maintain it (stuff break down, need upgrades, etc.). I prefer hardware base.
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
The story is complete misinformation. The 1 year service issues only apply to machines bought now that qualify for a $150 rebate. If you don't keep your TiVo service active for a full year, you get a chargeback for your $150 rebate. All other TiVos use the old monthly service charges or you can buy a lifetime subscription. This is a non-issue.
Since you can buy TiVo units for a cost of $50 now (and for a brief time, you could actually make a $50 PROFIT buying a $100 TiVo on Amazon and getting a $150 rebate) it only makes sense for TiVo to protect themselves from people buying cheap units for the rebate, then dumping them on eBay.
A long time ago, I spoke to one of the top executives at TiVo, he told me that they make no money on hardware sales, they gave all those profits to the hardware manufacturers, they make money only on subscriptions and subsidiary projects like advertising. TiVo is giving up $150, the equivalent of a full year's subscription fees, just to move more hardware. It is a gift to their hardware producing partners. It only makes sense for TiVo to protect themselves from unscrupulous buyers exploiting this project.
... have you tried to set up a simple cron job to run ntpdate automatically? I.e., throw your ntpdate command-line into a text file with "#!/bin/bash" as the first line, set it executable, then throw it in /etc/cron.daily? (Or hourly, etc., etc.)
Alternatively, you could tell ntp to use different time servers - you may be using ones that are getting hammered a lot.
No, I don't use a DVR. Still, Linux is Linux, so I hope this helps, if you've not tried such already.
That's why I use Windows Media Center edition 2005, bought a $50 200GB HD and $50 TV card, put them in old AMD 1700+ computer and I pay no monthly fee.
Configuration aside, how does MythTV's interface compare to TiVo's? I mean, what approach to aesthetics and usability does MythTV take? Cluttery? Simple? Configurable? Do the available remote controls compare favorably to TiVo's?
:: Mac OS X : Linux+Gnome/KDE, or is the situation somewhat better?
This is the stuff Google doesn't help with, and I don't know where to try out a MythTV box without going through the hassle of setting it up myself. Basically I'm asking this. Does TiVo : MythTV
I think that Tivo wanted to see what 65,000,000 middle fingers looked like all at once.
Karma: a simple way of silencing those with unpopular views regardless how correct or just that view might be.
Ok, I'm still stunned there are people who haven't decided to get a TiVo yet in this day and age. Slashdot comments like "Well, I was on the fence.. I was about to get one.. But NOW.. nope!" are astounding.. If you don't have one already, I don't get the feeling you were about to sign up anytime soon.. What else did the box need to do for you - produce gold?
As for this most recent news article, it shouldn't affect anyone who's thought about this for more than 10-15 seconds.. Paying the $12/month fee is a suckers game - they let you pay a one-time fee (originally $199, then $249, now I think $299) for the LIFETIME of the unit.. If you have it more than 2 years, the lifetime subscription paid for itself and you're free - if you opted to pay $12 per month, you're losing money.
Who are these slashdot readers who are getting paid so poorly that they can't afford $299 up-front instead of the screw-you-layaway-plan option? They are the only ones who are affected or should be complaining about this change.
Every time TiVo makes some change that lets them stay alive, someone's there to complain that they're not going with them now. No one's buying it - you're not getting the company to change their plan - they're not reading slashdot to see if you're happy about it or not.
Oh yeah - one last thing.. From now on, anyone considering getting a TiVo: TiVo Inc just made it easier to see that the $$/month is a sucker's game.. To "make out" on that deal you'd have to buy a TiVo, decide AFTER a year that you don't like it, but BEFORE two years.. Then maybe you'd save UP TO $150.. Again - who is making these low salaries?!
(and yes, I know DirecTivo people don't have the lifetime option - but then again DirecTV isn't marketing DirecTiVos anymore either)
..Jeff Keegan
seven syllables explain TiVo: kee gan dot org slash ti vo
I don't have TIVO (and never plan to, MythTV works great for me) but I suspect the terms that you agreed to when you signed up said something to the effect of "we can change these terms at any time and it is your responsibility to periodically check them to make sure you agree". If you failed to periodically check the terms of the agreement then you are SOL.
I just bought a tivo. It was free after the $150 rebate.
the box is obviously worth something, so if I cancel before some reasonable time I'd expect to pay for that box (or return the box).
Surely that isn't difficult to understand?
Cellular carries get away with this practice because that free phone you got really cost $300. It's nothing more then a guarnatee to get a return on their subsidie. AFAIK, you don't get a discount for activating your Tivo vs. not activating it.
Seems like the only loser here is the consumer.
Kind of like the massive move away from cell phone companies that require contracts, right?
How many fulltime jobs can one man have?
I get flamed a lot for complaining regularly about failing to get linux to run on my PCs, but you've got me beat, i've never put 60 hours into it. I have trouble wrapping my mind around the idea of toiling 60 hours to set up a PVR !
The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
TiVo has already started testing popup ads on their devices. With users locked into the service, subscribers can't bail out if TiVo goes forward with the ads.
I absolutely love my TiVo, but have made up my mind to dump it if they start showing ads.
-David
The policy is applicable to the contract, not the other way around. How about, "also subject to the new policy."?
The slashdot "editors" should really be called "guys who pick stories".
-Peter
It was a one-of-a-kind service how many years ago? I bought my first ReplayTV in November of 2000. I bought a new one a year ago so that I could copy shows to my PC over the network. ReplayTV has never pulled any of this crap that you Tivo owners are putting up with.
Cow Cube
Who are these slashdot readers who are getting paid so poorly that they can't afford $299 up-front instead of the screw-you-layaway-plan option?
Find me an entry-level programming job in Fort Wayne, Indiana, and I might find the $299. Monster, CareerBuilder, and Dice haven't helped.
Again - who is making these low salaries?!
Some of them must be people who graduated from university with a B.Sc. in computer science only to find massive unemployment and who accepted part-time minimum wage jobs while waiting for the U.S. IT job market to come back to life.
Do you have a link for one of those? All the products shown on Tivo.com require a subscription service of one sort or another. ReplayTV also requires a subscription and they reserve the right to change your software whenever you connect to their server.
Many states - the one I live in, included, do not allow lengthy contractual obligations regarding services.
Where I live, the statuatory limit to service contracts is 4 months. Once you've hit 4 months, regardless of the contract verbage, you are no longer bound to it's terms.
So - look them up, check them out - and then make certain to write down the relevant code section so you can use it when you use that as a leverage point to get things you want from service providers.
Case in point -
My cell phone had died (a bad firmware update done by the local store zombie). I called the service line and stated that I would go elsewhere if I did not get my phone upgrade at a substantially discounted price. The customer service zombie stated that I still had over a year and a half left on my contract. Once I read the relevant code to the zombie, and informed them that half a year was beyond the 4 months, that I was no longer obligated nor bound by the contract. 2 supervisors later, I had my new phone, at a substantially discounted price, without any new (or extended) contractual terms.
I guess I'm just stating to be aware of the options you have available to you, depending on where you live.
Who is general failure, and why is he reading my hard drive?
The same story was on digg a couple days ago with the same misleading topic. Just like on Digg, people who dont read the story bashed TiVo. If you read the story, OR the comments then you would know the $150 cancellation is due to the $150 rebate they give you.
I wonder which news (cough) source will post the same bullshit headline next.
Ahh, sensationalism at work.
consumers, Of course they don't care about consumers. Customers on the other hand?
Anyone know the date at which the word consumers replaced the word customer?
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
I really want to sell the whole thing that cost me over $400 to build and switch to a Tivo.
Tivo has some nasty approaches to DRM and content expiration. If you like Myth, you'll probably be happier with a networked OOBE, DRM-free thing like ReplayTV.
Da Blog
I loved my Tivo for a little while... Even used it *in place of* a MythTV box I had already built before I ever had the thing! But selling the units for next to nothing and trying to make up for it with service contracts isn't the way to go.
My Tivo actually died on me (appears to be a faulty CPU since it boots to the initial splash screen ok, but then goes to a black screen with some kind of error about an unexpected instruction and stops). Even though I already had a lifetime membership for it, I'm unable to transfer that to another brand new Tivo I was given free by my parents. (They bought it as an Xmas gift for someone who it turns out already had one and didn't need it.) Somehow, it rubbed me the wrong way that the nearly $300 "lifetime subscription" would only be good for as long as one specific piece of hardware lasted. How do I know my next Tivo won't just die the same way after another year or so?
And granted, I could send it back in for an "out of warranty repair" for $80 or so - but that still leaves me with this new, free, Tivo sitting here in the box that I have no way to use without now buying a redundant contract (plus now with a 1 year service committment on top of that!). No thanks.... Tivo, I'm done. Back to the MythTV I've gone and no regrets.
The $150 charge is only for those that get a new tivo unit at $150 off the reg price. So if you buy one, then decide that you don't want to continue the contract, then they can impose any penality they wish. IMHO, their penality is not bad at all, considering you bought the hardward at a discount.
Second, buy a lifetime contract. I have three tivos, all with lifetime contracts. For $299, the service is available for the life of the unit. And that doesn't mean that once the HD fails you are out. You can send a failed unit back to tivo, pay a mere $150 in repair/replacement costs, they will replace the tivo for you and they will transfer your lifetime subscription to the new unit. You can do this for up to 10 failures. If a HD fails every 2 years, this means you have up to 12 years for a single subscription. Do you have any piece of technology in your house that carries this kind of lifecycle promise? How often does your HD fail?
Anyone who wants to claim that there is a better alternative out there is wrong. The service improves constantly, the help desk at TIVO is one of the best out there (probably only topped by GIECO), and the attitude of the company in response to hacking the unit it great (I've got a 640+ hour hacked unit).
As for the broadcast flag comments, anyone who wants to archive their shows should go out and buy a decent tv capture card. Tivo was actually smart in granting the limited access to download shows from the unit directly, but preventing people from (easily) distributing the shows. This satisfied the MPAA and the like by adding copy protection, but still allowed the basic user at home to store shows on his/her computer. If you were really planning to distribute video over the internet you already own a capture card and didn't need tivo anyway.
All in all, this is not much of a change for Tivo users, and people should not consider this a reason not to own one. I love my tivos, and I still recommend them to my friends.
My VCR serves my needs just fine.
It will indefinately as long as I can get standard TV signals.
When those go dark, I'll look into whatever is available then.
Mandatory HDTV conversion = industry's secret plan to sell a lot of TVs and fill up the landfills.
No joke, they are.
The article does not clearly state that this policy only applies to devices bundled with a rebate from Tivo. Can one buy a Tivo (without a rebate) and pay monthly?
TIVO is now $39.99
least aorund here. How else can they get the hardware paid for?
see above
Glad I didn't.
/.'ers out here using it?
So, you can no longer skip through commercials without seeing POPUP commercials, can't or won't be able to record certain programs anymore because of some "no record" flag they've added (or plan to add) to the broadcast signal, and now they want a 1 year commitment with a $150 penalty if you cancel early?
Fuck Tivo!
Sheeesh, and they had such a cool thing going there for awhile, leave it to the corporate greed mongers to ruin a beautiful thing for the almighty dollar.
The Myth TV project is looking pretty good now, any
I'm not sure why people are freaking out over this. This is tied to the $150 rebate they offer and it looks like it works just like the cellphone plans. You get a phone for $49, but are required to stay with their service for 2 years. Oh wait, Tivo isn't requiring a 2-year commitment.
You're getting the $199 Tivo for $49 and are bitching that it is linked to a 1-year minimum contract. So you bitch about a $199 box and tell Tivo they should make it cheaper. They figure out a way to absorb the cost only to have you bitch about that.
P.S. Yes, I realize all the DRM crap Tivo is pulling -- but as far as I can tell, it is unrelated to the rebate/service agreement setup they've got going.
I concluded two years ago when I was looking at Tivo that the company were b*stards. I didn't buy one. Now, with Digital Restrictions Management (DRM) in it, I see even less reason to own one, and fewer TV shows I'd care to watch.
Heck, with all the extra time I have NOT watching the boob toob, I have a LOT more fun, get a LOT more done, and don't pay cable/sat bills anymore. Screw TV. It's just another drug for the masses.
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
Their management must really have something against their customers.
"Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
How do you know they didn't actually load some non-operable code into your system? You do know they "upgrade" your system remotely? That would be the ultraparanoid thought. On the other side is that it may have just been a failed upgrade that resulted in busted code.
Commercial Products and Services:
ReplayTV: TiVo's ancient nemesis, it also 'just works'. I can't say whether it is more user friendly than TiVo, but it is far more customer friendly.
Windows XP Media Center Edition: Yes, them. Choose from multiple manufacturers but expect to face Microsoft Corp's version of the 'personal' computing experience.
Hardware vendors are now pushing DVD/HD Recording devices quite a bit. RCA, Motorola and Panasonic have products available.
Service Providers like Comcast and DishTV are now providing time shifting hardware and tv-on-demand solutions. Check with your choice of cable or satellite service provider.
Hobbyist Solutions:
MythTV: The Open Source, Do-It-Yourself DVR. Expect to build your own machine and play around a bit before it works the way you want. (Linux)
Freevo: MythTV, but not. (Linux)
MediaPortal: Who ever said Open Source was limited to Linux software? (Windows)
Meedio: It was a community based freeware product (myHTPC) that morphed into a commercial product without warning. Still a reasonable alternative to Microsoft for PVR function on the Windows platform. (Windows)
eyeTV: This Mac product has me seriously considering picking up a Mini-Mac to use as a media center. (Apple)
SnapStream (Windows)
SageTV (Windows)
Chris-TV (Windows)
ShowShifter (Windows)
On a personal note, I purchased the ReplayTV when it was first released and am entirely satisfied with it. Plus, by purchasing early I have never had to pay a subscription fee for data that is freely available elsewhere. If there had been a subscription fee I would not have purchased it.
Dan
It's just TV. The money used on TiVO could easily buy a bike and a tire-swing and lotsa root beer.
Windows XP SP2 told me to install third-party software that prevents viruses and protects stability... I chose Ubuntu
Tivo does indeed change the way you watch televsion. I stayed with a friend for a while who had one. And it is an awesome device, but every time I turn around there's another negative story on Slashdot that makes me want to get one less and less. More and more stuff about DRM flags and now these service contracts.
"You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
They are, which is why it's hard to get them to go after something as small as $150. When I worked at an independent long distance company, the collection agencies usually wouldn't help us out, since most of our bad debt was in that range of less then one or two-hundred dollars. We were pretty much on our own to send threatening letters, etc.
Depending on how you paid your monthly fee, Tivo probably just bills your credit card or drafts your bank account the $150. You might be wise to take 'evasive action' (alerting your bank or credit card of fraud or whatever) before cancelling your Tivo to avoid the fee. Then just tell TiVo you changed the terms -- didn't you see my webiste? It was right there for you to look at.
I am not a crackpot.
If you're worrying about needing to save the monthly fee and use that money for gas or food perhaps you shouldn't have a tivo in the first place. People seem to forget that this is an optional service, not a necessity.
I have a Sony TiVo that I bought nearly 5 years ago. I deactivated it at the beginning of summer (and with the new TiVo software "upgrades", that prevented me from even using it for manual recordings). Now that the new seasons are starting, I decided to reactivate.
After going through the online reactivation process, with no mention of a 1 year obligation, I noticed that my receipt had a tiny line in fine print stating that there was a 1 year obligation with activation of any TiVo, and I could read more in their privacy policy (?).
I immediately called TiVo customer service, and was informed by the first agent and that agent's supervisor that, yes, that obligation even applies to TiVos bought before this new policy went into affect and that did not receive a rebate. Reactivation of an old system is the same as activation of a new system, even if it's not a new owner activating it and even if that owner had service continuously for almost 5 years previously. Needless to say, I immediately cancelled my reactivation and made up a shopping list to rebuild my MythTV box (or BeyondTV, trying them both).
So if your card expires or you can't get a payment posted to your account within the 15 days and they turn you off, then you go to "reactivate" --they are going to require you to agree to a new contract with a $150 penalty if you terminate within 1 year? Fucked if I'm going to wait until I get into that situation to can their ass.
Anyone want to buy my TiVo Series 2 from March of this year? I am buyin' a miniMac to put down below my TV and I'm going to hook-up one of those EyeTV adapter thingies. The TiVo was supposed to be a replacement for videotape, not some kind of financially traumatic religious thing.
TiVo executive assistant: Sir, that's your foot. You really should try not to shoot it.
Seriously, with TiVo already in trouble, this won't help. Maybe they're in big trouble these days, worse then we realize. It might help them in the short term, but a lot of people aren't going to sign up for a year contract with a penalty when there's alternatives out there that are "good enough" and contain no such contract. Shit, my DVR from Cox isn't that great but at least it records HDTV and it's only $3/mo more then a normal box.
- It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
So, what happened TiVo? You started as a champion for technology and consumers. You allowed us all to easily save shows to watch them anytime we wanted. You were innovative, and first to market with technology. And then you changed. Why? You started doing whatever the entertainment industry wanted of you (including ads), sacrificing your customer in the process. Crippling your technology with DRM. Why would you do this TiVo? You don't have to answer to the entertainment industry (unless their giving you big bucks to implement their agenda). And now you screw the consumer again, making them sign up for a year of your crap! What else will you try to pull now that your customers will be locked in? Hopefully, the consumers will wise up - leave TiVo in droves to "generic" DVRs, and the consumer electronics industry will finally get serious making DVR's. So, all I can say now is die TiVo, DIE! Die quickly, and die miserably!
No, but from what I understand (correct me if I'm wrong) for the xbox360 you have to pay the extra upgrade price to xbox live gold to play multiplayer online. Xbox live silver doesn't include online multiplayer.
Check out the maxpoll option for your ntp client. It tells ntp the maximum number of seconds between polling the ntp server. Unfortunately, it runs by a power of 2, so setting a maxpoll of 12 will mean ntp only polls every hour. Setting a maxpoll of 5 will mean it will poll every 32 seconds. Useful if you have systems whose internal clocks suck (my IBM 300PL, which I have observed to actually start going backwards, instead of just being slow).
It appears that Tivo has been on a suicide march for some time now. I had been considering purchasing one to release my PC from it's DVR duties but refuse to relinquish total control of my recording activities nor do I desire to have a pre-determined commitment for service. Tivo started a revolution and is slowly marching itself into the abyss of once was, revolutionary companies that couldn't make it because they succumbed to corporate philosophy and lost sight of what gave them their start to begin with...technological innovation!!!
Sure, the unit is going to cost you about $100 bucks but there are no subscription fees. You get the guide for free from a third party.
"sweet dreams are made of this..."
All of them. Including Tivo. With digital tv on the horizon analog signal recorders are less and less atractive. Every company and their brother are building PVR boxes. Tivo is nowhere in the picture. In fact most of the companies doing it themselves. Some lisencing 3rd party middleware. None using Tivo's. DirecTV did but they are dumping Tivo in favor of NDS, and both of them (DirecTV and NDS) are owned by newscorp.
:( Every service provider will have their own box. Why should they give $5 to tivo? Given that the box may be worse than Tivo. It does not matter because you will not have a choice. Or it just will be more convenient - one service, one box.
The future is bleak
I guess there is Open Cable standard that could help tivo to survive but I do not beleive that many cable companies will implement this. They have no incentives. In fact they have all incentives not to. They charge box rental fees, remote rental fees and so on.
It is all about killing the competition and more money. Why do you think Tivo gives this $150 rebate? Because they are so good? No. It is because they can't sell their boxes otherwise. Look at their finacial statement. They never actually made any money.
I know this message will be designated as a flamebat, but unfortunately it is the truth. I have been in this industry for a long time. In fact I even worked for Tivo at one point of my life.
You can take your 1 Year Service Contract and shove it up your ass! I'm watching TiVo!
Even though I already had a lifetime membership for it, I'm unable to transfer that to another brand new Tivo I was given free by my parents.
Sheesh. They're clear up-front that the lifetime membership isn't transferable to other machines. That's why I didn't go for it.
I have DirecTV, and my service only goes out two or three times a year, and only because of weird atmospheric interference, and only for twenty minutes or so. I've had rain, snow, and wind. Hell, I even had service during a tropical storm that managed to survive until it reached Atlanta. I remember one night, the wind and rain got so bad that my power went out around 10 minutes before the end of Survivor, and because I have a UPS, I was still able to watch the end of it and see who got voted out.
Maybe your dish isn't aligned correctly. I set my own dish up, and on a clear day, my signal strength is a steady 100%. My dad complained about his service going out, and when I checked his signal strength on a clear day, it was only around 80%, thanks to an installation company that settled for "good enough." I adjusted his dish, and he didn't have much trouble after that.
But when I had cable, the damn thing was out at least once or twice a month. Once, I went three whole days without service. IIRC, someone cut the cable while doing construction, and somehow my box got deactivated, and it totally blew their minds. That kind of thing has never happened with my satellite service.
In spite of all of that, I recently tried cable again, because I can get HDTV from Comcast for a lot less than with DirecTV. I had it taken out after less than a week of service because of several insurmountable problems. Needless to say, I won't make that mistake again.
Quit using Tivo. Period.
Find something else to do.
I had two cell phones with them.
The first account was long over the year contract - having had them for some 6+ years. The second line was fairly new, under a year old. I activated a second line on the first account for $20/mo to share minutes. When I wanted to cancel, they said the second account (completely seprate from the first) renewed my 1 year contract for all THREE phones. They went on to claim a $150 disconnect fee per phone, including the add-a-phone.
I'm never dealing with sprint again.
SearchIRC - Now with live chat directory!
And unless you ONLY query a server you control (ie, another on-site Linux box with a more reliable clock), expect to get a kiss-of-death packet from every server you use within a week.
As a better solution, set an hourly cron job to call a script that does:
Though the effectiveness of bothering to restart NTP seems debateable in that case - It really only works well when you let it run for days or even weeks uninterrupted, to get a good idea of the exact slew of your clock.
As an aside, I use that exact sequence (well, minus the killall) in the rc.local on one of my home machines - It keeps time just fine once it starts up, but for some reason its clock just doesn't tick with the machine turned off (I'd say it needs a battery, but it has no problem remembering its BIOS settings)
That alone is enough for me to swear off their service for life. Dozens of times i have been called by their robots asking me if i knew Dish Network could save hundreds of dollars over my cable bill.
The funny thing was, at the time i WAS a Dish Network subscriber, i cancelled my service SOLELY because of those calls.
Telemarketing is bad, but telemarketing with a pre-recorded sales pitch on a wardialer is just plain evil.
Boycott Dish Netowk
There's smoke on the horizon, I swear it's the Tivo company...
/dTd
This is no big deal. Most people that have Tivo couldn't imagine living without it. I'd agree to a contract because I can't imagine having a TV and not Tivo. It's that revolutionary, and if this helps keep the company afloat, that's great. The competitor's DVRs suck horribly.
I guess no one told you about the 942...The 942, and 721 Dish recievers both tend to have a lot of problems.There new tech for Dish. So without knowing it, you were beta testing for Dish. If it's any consolation, The more recent s/w versions eliminate a lot of the bugs. Eventually they should be just about usable ;)
<gir voice> I love this sig... </gir voice>
I *know* they were clear on it. I just assumed the hardware was more solid and reliable, and I could at least expect to get, say 4-5 years of useful life out of one! All of my computers have run for that long, as a rule....
You're missing the point. With the new TiVo you won't still have that recording of Janet's middle-aged boob. The Superbowl is certainly a premium event, and provided that they let you record it at all, expect it to be Red Flagged to timely deletion. And don't think for a moment that someone is going to be nice and only flag the game while keeping the half-time show forever. Their thinking is not that finely granulated.
Btw, anyone know if the Superbowl DVD has that full shot of halftime? I'm betting it can't, because they wouldn't be able to sell it to many families, or in many regions, if it did.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Congrats on the job.
I don't think many people realize how hard it is getting to find good jobs.
Looking for a job really is a full time job.
You really need to include the cost of the MS MCE software in your bill of materials.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
It would be much more fair if you could return the TiVo hardware in lieu of the $150 for early cancellation. Without their service the chances of you using it anyway diminsh greatly.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Ok... it's not a word so much... but it's a daemon everyone should have and use. I can't figure out why we hapilly made the switch to xinitd, but xntpd get ignored.
Democrats and Republicans only disagree about how to enslave you
Ive used 2 TiVos for 5 years each.
The hardware has been very reliable for me. I had to replace a hard disk in each one, but that is to be expected. Everything else works very well.
Okay, I actually downloaded the full Telecommunications Act and read through sec. 629.
SEC. 629. [47 U.S.C. 549] COMPETITIVE AVAILABILITY OF NAVIGATION DEVICES.
(a) COMMERCIAL CONSUMER AVAILABILITY OF EQUIPMENT USED TO ACCESS SERVICES PROVIDED BY MULTICHANNEL VIDEO PROGRAMMING DISTRIBUTORS.--The Commission shall, in consultation with appropriate industry standard-setting organizations, adopt regulations to assure the commercial availability, to consumers of multichannel video programming and other services offered over multichannel video programming systems, of converter boxes, interactive communications equipment, and other equipment used by consumers to access multichannel video programming and other services offered over multichannel video programming systems, from manufacturers, retailers, and other vendors not affiliated with any multichannel video programming distributor. Such regulations shall not prohibit any multichannel video programming distributor from also offering converter boxes, interactive communications equipment, and other equipment used by consumers to access multichannel video programming and other services offered over multichannel video programming systems, to consumers, if the system operator's charges to consumers for such devices and equipment are separately stated and not subsidized by charges for any such service.
(b) PROTECTION OF SYSTEM SECURITY.--The Commission shall not prescribe regulations under subsection (a) which would jeopardize security of multichannel video programming and other services offered over multichannel video programming systems, or impede the legal rights of a provider of such services to prevent theft of service.
(c) WAIVER.--The Commission shall waive a regulation adopted under subsection (a) for a limited time upon an appropriate showing by a provider of multichannel video programming and other services offered over multichannel video programming systems, or an equipment provider, that such waiver is necessary to assist the development or introduction of a new or improved multichannel video programming or other service offered over multichannel video
programming systems, technology, or products. Upon an appropriate showing, the Commission shall grant any such waiver request within 90 days of any application filed under this subsection, and such waiver shall be effective for all service providers and products in that category and for all providers of services and products.
(d) AVOIDANCE OF REDUNDANT REGULATIONS.--
(1) COMMERCIAL AVAILABILITY DETERMINATIONS.--Determinations made or regulations prescribed by the Commission with respect to commercial availability to consumers of converter boxes, interactive communications equipment, and other equipment used by consumers to
access multichannel video programming and other services offered over multichannel video programming systems, before the date of enactment of the Telecommunications Act of 1996 shall fulfill the requirements of this section.
(2) REGULATIONS.--Nothing in this section affects section 64.702(e) of the Commission's regulations (47 C.F.R. 64.702(e)) or other Commission regulations governing interconnection and competitive provision of customer premises equipment used in connection with basic
common carrier communications services.
(e) SUNSET.--The regulations adopted under this section shall cease to apply when the Commission determines that--
(1) the market for the multichannel video programming distributors
is fully competitive;
(2) the market for converter boxes, and interactive communications equipment, used in conjunction with that service is fully competitive; and
(3) elimination of the regulations would promote competition and the public interest.
(f) COMMISSION'S AUTHORITY.--Nothing in this section shall be construed as expanding or limiting any authority that the Commission may have under law in effect before the date of enactment of the Telecommunications Act of 1996.
But I don't
It seems to me that this could be a plan to provide some kind of revenue flow as Tivo dies. The recent debate over the "broadcast flag", and Tivo's policy on how you can use, or how long you can keep recorded material, could probably have something to do with this service agreement. Personally, I would never sign up for Tivo now because of the DRM provisions now being imposed on Tivo customers. And if I were a current customer, I would definitely be looking for an alternative right about now. Tivo users have become accustomed to doing just about whatever they want with their recorded material. Those days are numbered or gone. BTW, MythTV Rocks!