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Domain: skepdic.com
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Comments · 414
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Not superstitious?From The Skeptic's Dictionary:
Prayer s attempted communication with supernatural beings (SBs). The word derives from a 14th century French word (preiere) meaning "to obtain by entreaty." The most common use of the word "prayer" is asking an SB for some favor.
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Not superstitious?From The Skeptic's Dictionary:
Prayer s attempted communication with supernatural beings (SBs). The word derives from a 14th century French word (preiere) meaning "to obtain by entreaty." The most common use of the word "prayer" is asking an SB for some favor.
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Re:*raises* the question...
You mean it raises the question. To beg the question means to assume that what you are trying to prove is already true.
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Re:From a scientist: not just politics as usualFor any technological society to succeed, sound science must take precendence over ideological conviction, because nature cannot be fooled.
For an example of this, read the unfortunate tale of Trofim Denisovich Lysenko. Soviet agriculture took decades to recover from this ideological distortion of science.
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Re:Incomplete testingExactly. Sounds like they fell into the classic Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy. Virtually EVERY cancer clustering study ever done has been eventually been debunked.
The human mind is hard-wired to find patterns in images, hence we have natural tendancy to think that there is a meaningful pattern in completely random data. This is also why we tend to see human faces in odd places (Clouds, the moon, shower mold, bumps on a tortilla, etc) -- a huge part of our brain is dedicated to decoding human facial expressions, so it should be no suprise when we observe a face-like image emerge from random noise.
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Re:Know thy vote counter
There are different definitions of the term: some (probably: most) apply to the USA, the more specific ones don't. However, most people usually deal with the more general terms and maybe are not even aware of the meaning of the more specific term. The burden of dealing with any ambiguity rests with those who are aware of the different meanings...
I'm just always reminded of those tests that say choose the most correct answer:
The USA is a(n):
a) Democracy
b) Democratic Republic
c) Communist State
d) Extra-terrestrial outpost
While "Democracy" is correct, it is correct in a general sense, much like instead of calling humans "Humans" or "persons" or whatever, we should just call them "organisms" or "entities" or even "mammals" or "animals" with supposedly the same amount of correctness.
As for b) I guess most people are well aware of that. It just begs the question whether this is a good thing or not. From an outsiders point of view, the presidential election system is very weird - for instance, the existance of states which de facto already belong to one or the other party, making the elections mostly a battle for the remaining borderline candidate states. (I apologise for any incorrect terminology.)
Not really... as begging the question means something else.
However, you have to ask whether this is a good or bad thing...
There are a few very good arguments for representative democracies. One of the main ones is to act as a buffer between the general populace and actual governmental policy. An example of this is that if something especially tragic happens, you don't have laws such as "evict all the Muslim folks" being passed by a simple majority of voters when supposedly the calmer heads of the elected officials can temper this a bit. Of course, many of the other reasons are for logistical reasons. -
Heisenberg uncertainty principleLike I have enough time to take on every fundamentalist AC on
I agree that just saying add millions (or billions) is no answer, but that's not an argument a good Darwinists would make. It is usually the creationists who are accused of begging the question! This is something I have noticed in recent years, the creationists trying to turn arguments around. It seems to me the Republicans have gotten good at this too! Science has no use for faith. If it can't be used for prediction, it isn't science.
I couldn't find the name of the logic fallacy you are trying to use. I did want to share this quote:
Another instance of the prosecutor's fallacy is sometimes encountered when discussing the origins of life: the probability of life arising at random out of the physical laws is estimated to be tiny, and this is presented as evidence for a creator, without regard for the possibility that the probability of such a creator could be even tinier.
But I am not a very good athesist, so here's my gift to you... The Heisenberg uncertainty principle puts a little black box around each sub atomic particle. Is this not enough room for God to work miracles?
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Re:Plausible explanation -- though improbable
Only four minor shifts of function - all in the correct order, and only after all the requisite pieces have been evolved into place. Doesn't that sound statistically implausible?
Actually, this is pretty mundane for evolution over a long period of time.Doesn't that sound at all like constructing [an explanation] after the fact to fit the observed end state?
Um, that is exactly what was requested! What did you want, an exposition of the thousand-fold evolutionary dead-ends that no one is interested in? Ironically, what you are almost describing is intelligent design which is usually a technique employed by the creationists.I call on Occam's Razor, and deduce that it's much more likely that the flagellum was created in place, rather than evolved through a bizarre sequence of highly improbable random events.
Wow, that's impressive, citing Occam's Razor to posit the existence of God, when actually the meaning is plurality should not be posited without necessity and atheists often apply Occam's razor in arguing against the existence of God! -
Re:Plausible explanation -- though improbable
Only four minor shifts of function - all in the correct order, and only after all the requisite pieces have been evolved into place. Doesn't that sound statistically implausible?
Actually, this is pretty mundane for evolution over a long period of time.Doesn't that sound at all like constructing [an explanation] after the fact to fit the observed end state?
Um, that is exactly what was requested! What did you want, an exposition of the thousand-fold evolutionary dead-ends that no one is interested in? Ironically, what you are almost describing is intelligent design which is usually a technique employed by the creationists.I call on Occam's Razor, and deduce that it's much more likely that the flagellum was created in place, rather than evolved through a bizarre sequence of highly improbable random events.
Wow, that's impressive, citing Occam's Razor to posit the existence of God, when actually the meaning is plurality should not be posited without necessity and atheists often apply Occam's razor in arguing against the existence of God! -
Re:Here we go again...
Neurolinguistic Programming talks about all that stuff with eye movements and accessing cues.
You might also want to see this.
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Re:Evolution?
Can anyone offer a plausible explanation for how any one of the pieces of a bacterial flagellum would offer that bacterium some sort of advantage?
As others have pointed out, obviously yes!Anyway, what was that about evolution not being able to cause a turbine to be created? I definitely agree with you on that point!
How this dogma gets modded up to 5 is beyond me. Maybe it's be divine will? <sarcasmKeep in mind that the Creationists need only one counter example to prove Darwin wrong. They can't even do that! I very much appreciate this explanation of Intelligent Design.
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Re:Regarding conciousnessWhy assume that it's an aberrant or erroneous state?
Why do you assume that the default conscious state of the organism accurately reflects reality? Our senses clearly have a limited range in which they operate - for example, the ear can generally perceive roughly 20Hz - 20Khz and no more. Psychologists have done a great deal of experiments on the human mind, and the general consensus is that it is poorly implemented. The brain is incapable of processing the huge amount of data at hand. In order to deal with that, it has developed numerous shortcuts, some learned, some genetic. A great many people walk around with completely ludicrous perceptions of reality that don't stand up to logical analysis in the least, and these are the sober people. Unless you believe that your brain is a perfect perceiving machine, you must agree that your perception of reality is flawed.
That's not to say that all alternate realities are superior, but since a superior perception of reality is by definition in a set that contains all realities other than the current one, rationally, a drug-induced perception could indeed be a superior one.
An example of flaws in the perception of reality: The human mind is inclined towards something psychologists call confirmation bias, which is "a type of selective thinking whereby one tends to notice and to look for what confirms one's beliefs, and to ignore, not look for, or undervalue the relevance of what contradicts one's beliefs." When undergoing a psychedelic hallucination where a completely non-sensical world is completely convincing, it casts into doubt the reality that we experience at all times, possibly causing us to rethink some of our beliefs.
Aside from that, psychedelics greatly enhance your ability to visualize concepts. Visualization is an important part of getting a firm grip on concepts when learning, for example, physics or math. Certain psychedelics bring about an increase in focus and concentration, another obviously useful learning tool.
A quick survey of the psychedelic experience reveals that its certainly rational and within the realm of possibility to seriously consider alternate realities.
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Re:Go back to basics?
I have a feeling that I've always thought that software emerged from intelligent design, since everytime my machine crashes I say "God fucking dammit!"
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Re:Just so no one else has to say it...
Just in case you're not trolling (which I give about a 5% chance): you might try following the explanatory link.
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Re:Just so no one else has to say it...
Oh, and here's the obligatory link.
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Re:Quod Erat Demonstrandum, I'd say...When was the last time I heard a Seventh Day Adventists lobbying for anything? Do you have any idea what the Seventh Day Adventists are all about? Either you're trolling or you don't know what you're talking about.
"Seventh-day Adventist Deborah Moorhead, 34, and her husband, Roby Jan, 45, were sentenced June 13 to five years in jail for the manslaughter of their six-month-old son, Caleb, for failing to provide the basic necessities of life. Caleb died of complications from a vitamin B12 deficiency.
"Five Seventh Day Adventists were arrested on the pedestrian ramp leading from the Superdome to the Hyatt Regency Hotel Thursday night while protesting statements made by Russian delegates at a religious convention....The protesters all were attending the Seventh Day Adventists General Conference session in New Orleans...(and) sought a forum at the convention to express their opposition to the Russian delegate's statement but have been denied by Neal Wilson, of Washington., D.C., president of the General Conference of Seventh Day Adventists." (The Times-Picayune Newspaper, July 5, 1985 p A-25).
"Over 1000 Seventh Day Adventist (SDA) Church believers (were asked to and then) assembled at their headquarters in Nyanchwa in Kisii and called on the authorities to probe two dissident church groups which are involved in heretical teachings, the executive director of the SDA church's South Kenya Conference, Pastor Nathan Ogeto, said yesterday...
Need more, it's everywhere.
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Re:AmericaNo, it may raise the question, but begging the question is completely different. Sorry, this misuse just irks me.
-Ted
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pareidolia
It's probably just pareidolia. They know what they are looking for, so they see it in highly ambiguous data. Sure it might be Atlantis, but I remain skeptical until they can produce much more unequivocal evidence.
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Logic rant[English teacher mode: on]
Er, no, it doesn't 'beg' the question. It raises it without answering it, certainly; but that's not what begging a question means.
Begging a question is assuming it, using it in a circular argument.
[pontificate mode: on]
I find it strange and depressing that a community which is, in general, so careful and precise about its use of computer languages, should be so cavalier in its treatment of human ones...
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Re:Splinter Cell 3 : Black Ops Box OfficeI've got nothing against administering a well earned spanking, but did you ever here of post hoc fallacy?
News flash: there were impolite people in your parents and grandparents generation, who recieved the same treatment you describe above.
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Lysenkoism
what's next, censoring science fiction because the physics in the book violate the sci-fi laws that the government approved of?
Delete the word "fiction" and change "physics" to "biology", and you'll find that very thing happened in the Soviet Union, in the form of Lysenkoism. -
Re:Occam's RazorThe simplest explanation is probably the best one.
Bzzzzt! Occam's Razor is better put like this: If you have two or more competing theories that explain things equally well then choose the simpler. In other words, don't add extraneous detail.
Just choosing the simplest explanation isn't the best way to go about things.
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Re:B-CAS card?
I guess this begs the question as to why do you need a card to watch TV when the purpose is to not allow duplication?
You guess wrong. It raises the question. Begging the question is more like circular reasoning. -
Re:what would I do?Occam
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Re:Free adjustment?
Indeed... "chiropractic" is almost all complete bullshit. Anyone with real back or joint problems should see a qualified doctor.
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Re:Familiar pair for atheists.
Then agian Science can't explain how life forms(today), Science can't explain out of the billions of permutations that evolution requires why is there only one Intelligent species, Why hasn't another one exsisted? The probalities would say it should of happened.
What?! What about chimpanzees and dolphins?
Why Science does every corner of the planet have a belief about dragons of all various sizes, yet man was 62 million years to late for Dinosaures?
Many corners of the planet have a flood myth too. That does NOT mean that Noah's myth is a historical fact.
Somethings don't make sense, some need help from other points of view, and some never will. Expand your mind.
Just because science can't hasn't yet explained something doesn't mean religion can. It's called the divine fallacy.
Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it's not true. It's called argument from incredulity, and it's just as wrong. -
Re:Familiar pair for atheists.
Poetry is pleasing, but is has no bearing on the veracity of his claims -- and he's wrong. Never confusing what is comforting or fulfilling with what is true. They're not mutually exclusive, but there's no connection. Otherwise, you've commited wishful thinking.
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Re:James Bond of the Spam world?
How is that begging the question? Maybe you just don't know what "begging the question" means and are too lazy to just take the very first result from Google to find out.
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Re:When Bored Scientists Attack
junkscience.com isn't what you think it is about. It's not about debunking bad science rather than fowarding a political agenda. A tell-tale sign to which political agenda is all the Fox news articles appearing in the right column. Take a look at the Skeptical Dictionary entry for more info.
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Re:Debunkers part of the problem
I absolutely agree. Rather than treat people who disagree as merely misinformed, and attempt to politely educate, many skeptics are outright rude to anyone who believes in pseudoscience or theories which have little factual evidence. Robert Caroll, who keeps up the Skeptic's Dictionary, is a perfect example. I agree with probably 95% of what he writes, but he can be abrasive to the point of annoyance at times, even when I agree with him.
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Grassroots
My roommate and I noticed something the other day at CompUSA. Most people don't have anything against Linux and open source per se, they're just uninformed.
There was a gentleman about to purchase some software. I forget exactly what, but it was something that most certainly existed for Linux free as in both speech and beer. Scott stopped him and explained very simply about Linux and how he doesn't actually need to pay one red cent for most software. By the end of the conversation, he was all ready to run home and boot a Knoppix CD to try it out. Even his wife was interested.
It wasn't that they were afraid to try something new, it was just that they didn't realize there are alternatives to Windows.
Now, corporations have another problem: the Sunken Cost Fallacy. Managers don't seem to understand that, for most business uses of a computer, there is no real reason to use Windows. They furthermore believe that, since they've already paid for a Windows environment, they'd lose that investment if they switched, and thus continue to pay.
I've found in my professional life that most office workers need very little to do their job. Office Suite, Web Browser, Calendar/Collaboration Software, Email, File Sharing, and maybe a simple Database: that's it.
Granted, there are some applications professionals use that don't currently exist in usable form on Linux, but those users can remain on Windows for the time being. (Or WINE, if they're adventurous). The first step is switching over all the office drones and secretaries who, quite frankly, don't need much software to do their job.
Heh... We're seriously considering standing outside of CompUSA one day and handing out Knoppix CDs and pamphlets. Spread the word. Vive la revolution! Blah blah blah....
You get my point -
Re:No, YOU go to the chalkboard...
No, there is technically no such thing as a naturally intuitive interface. However, there is such a thing as a naturally unituitive interface.
Interfaces that are not "naturally unintuitive" are by definition intuitive. As long as there exists at least one interface which is not "naturally unintuitive" (which you apparently believe PS to be), your statements contradict each other. This has no bearing on whether PS or GIMP are actually intuitive or not, I just thought I'd point out that your argument makes no sense as you've stated it.Photoshop is immediately intuitive to the vast majority of computer users who sit down at it. The GIMP is NOT
Presumably you have some hard statistical evidence to back this up, beyond the inevitable, "Well everyone *I* know who has tried PS/GIMP has liked/hated it!" You do know what confirmation bias is, right? -
Re:Nature Of The Flood
As a biblical literalist, if your answer is basically that the Lord gave, and the Lord took away, then you've provided faith as evidence. While one's faith can be tested, it can't be independently checked and verified.
With all the people today slinging around the term in an improper manner, I would like to point out this is the very definition of begging the question.
See:
http://skepdic.com/begging.html -
Re:WHITE POWER! WHITE POWER!! WHITE POWER!!!
Ever heard of afrocentrism?
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Re:Evidence of Atheism as a Religion? Re:Gee...
There is no point wasting resources to search for an ark that couldn't have been there. The "great flood" is clearly impossible.
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Shuffling Coincidences (Number Theory)Something strange happens when shuffling music.
It is easy to shuffle a massive amount of music and get shocking coincidences that will make you question the shuffling algorithm (Why does it play clusters of artists or albums? ). Statistically, it's the principle of equal a priori probabilities, so that there is an equal chance of a shuffle to create the exact same order that it started with.
Also, we humans are just too good at creating patterns where they don't exist. Combine our pattern matching skills with the Law of Truly Large Numbers, and we get an explaination for our common experience of listening to a random shuffle of music, "It's not random".
IMO, the best implementation of shuffling is done on my Empeg (Rio Car MP3 Player).
The 'real' solution for listening to music is to have different suffle modes and fancy heriarchical playlists... well um, read the FAQ!!!
Jeff Sylvester, in a discussion on the Unofficial Empeg BBS, wrote a program to graph this very phenomenon. With this program, you can clearly see how a truly random distribution will produce exactly these kinds of perceived "patterns". -
Peace and Love
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Peace and Love
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End Times
Isn't there something about this in Revelations? I'm sure that Nostradamus must also have had some inkling that this was going to happen.
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Full List of April Fools Web Sites
For a full updated list of sites pulling april fools jokes see here
Some of the latest enteries:
livejournal.com - on userinfo pages, "Friend"/"Friend Of" -> "Stalking"/"Stalked By"
www.gpf-comics.com - Comic mirrored.
smh.com.au - Yum-cha trolleys with "L" plates
www.clutchfans.com - Patrick Ewing returning to NBA
www.freeciv.org - Freeciv ANSI client
www.rav4world.com - Closed? Should have announced that TOMORROW!
www.retrocrush.com - Nude pics of Jaclyn Smith
westcoaster.net - Roller coaster site turned into teen girl site
www.meowpawjects.com - Sock people forced webmaster to take website down.
miceage.com - Disney merges with Walmart
www.badgerbadgerbadger.com - Badgers replaces with zombies
skepdic.com - Skeptic's Dictionary closing
fool.com - Buffett buys Krispy Cream
launch.com - Britney Spears & Jason Alexander To Renew Wedding Vows
MetaFilter.com - Turned in to a Wiki for the day
www.ddrkc.com - owner sold site to a user that is unpopular
brownpau.com - March for Web Standards
www.beyondunreal.com - ut2k4 production suspended
globetechnology.com - Microsoft Solitaire
www.modernwiccan.com - Randomized Color Scheme
bbs.fuckedcompany.com - Site shutting down
www.diary-x.com - looks like diaryland!
theprp.com - Music site to "Previously Ridden Ponies"
mpx200.org - Pocket PC with 2Gb system memory/Smart Drunk Pocket PC application
www.macosxhints.com - triple G5 Powermacs
www.slyfx.com - AOL buys slyfx
palminfocenter.com - Palms for toddlers.
www.carniola.org - fake news story
eikenes.alvestrand.no - Considering porn spam to be in a separate dialect to everything else
defunctgames.com - Pimps At Sea fox xbox -
Full list of april fools jokes
For a full updated list of sites pulling april fools jokes see here
Some highlites:
livejournal.com - on userinfo pages, "Friend"/"Friend Of" -> "Stalking"/"Stalked By"
www.gpf-comics.com - Comic mirrored.
smh.com.au - Yum-cha trolleys with "L" plates
www.clutchfans.com - Patrick Ewing returning to NBA
www.freeciv.org - Freeciv ANSI client
www.rav4world.com - Closed? Should have announced that TOMORROW!
www.retrocrush.com - Nude pics of Jaclyn Smith
westcoaster.net - Roller coaster site turned into teen girl site
www.meowpawjects.com - Sock people forced webmaster to take website down.
miceage.com - Disney merges with Walmart
www.badgerbadgerbadger.com - Badgers replaces with zombies
skepdic.com - Skeptic's Dictionary closing
fool.com - Buffett buys Krispy Cream
launch.com - Britney Spears & Jason Alexander To Renew Wedding Vows
MetaFilter.com - Turned in to a Wiki for the day
www.ddrkc.com - owner sold site to a user that is unpopular
brownpau.com - March for Web Standards
www.beyondunreal.com - ut2k4 production suspended
globetechnology.com - Microsoft Solitaire
www.modernwiccan.com - Randomized Color Scheme
bbs.fuckedcompany.com - Site shutting down
www.diary-x.com - looks like diaryland!
theprp.com - Music site to "Previously Ridden Ponies"
mpx200.org - Pocket PC with 2Gb system memory/Smart Drunk Pocket PC application
www.macosxhints.com - triple G5 Powermacs
www.slyfx.com - AOL buys slyfx
palminfocenter.com - Palms for toddlers.
www.carniola.org - fake news story
eikenes.alvestrand.no - Considering porn spam to be in a separate dialect to everything else
defunctgames.com - Pimps At Sea fox xbox -
Utter crap
Neuro-Linguistic Programming is a mishmash of pseudoscientific dribble. It's great for those Tony Robbins followers or anyone else who needs someone else to build up their self esteem, but you can't get some girl to sleep with you just by pronouncing your words slightly differently.
Skeptic's Dictionary: NLP
The Daily Show (pre Jon Stewart) did a great segment on these guys - they even tried to pick up on the interviewer (Beth Littlefield?) "Stop - it's not working on me." "I mean it, you're creeping me out." -
Re:Why would I pay for this?
Doesn't matter. It's an irrelevant appeal to authority anyway.
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Selective thinking
Interesting that he recognizes the commoditification of hardware, but not software, eh? A fine example of:
http://www.skepdic.com/selectiv.html -
Occam's RazorSeeing as so much weight is being put behind William of Ockham:
"According to Occam, the idea of God is not established by evident experience or evident reasoning. All we know about God we know from revelation. The foundation of all theology, therefore, is faith. It should be noted that while others might apply the razor to eliminate the entire spiritual world, Ockham did not apply the principle of parsimony to the articles of faith.
In other words, William of Ockham himself said that the "principle of parsimony" (another term for Occam's Razor) cannot be applied to anything regarding religion. It is one of the clearest admissions ever made by a priest (he was a Franciscan monk) that religion is not based on rational thought. -
Re:Dear Mr. Ashcroft
Speaking as a thoughtful Atheist, I thought I'd point out that Atheism is itself a religion, or at the very least it is distinguishable from religion. Like most religion, Atheism centers on the faith of the Atheist that there are no God(s). Certainly this has not been proven, at least not in the scientific sense.
The two beliefs are not incompatable, nor is Agnosicism incompatable with Theism. Agnosticism is the epistemological position that knowledge of the existence or non-existence of God is impossible. Agnostic thiests (once known as fidests) are those who do not believe there can be proof of a God but nonetheless believe in one based purely on faith. Pop culture, unable to understand the difference between religion and philosophy, seems to have decided that Agnosicism is on a spectrum between Atheism and Theism where in reality it is a position on a different but related issue.Do not confuse Atheists with Agnostics.
Everyone is an athiest toward at least some of the many theistic faiths. Most people nowadays are athiests with respect to Ra, Zeus, Bumba, A'akuluujjusi, Yingarna, Odin, and Quetzalcoatl... or at the very least are atheistic with respect to some of the gods on that list. Most people identifying themselves as atheist are simply atheistic with respect to one more theistic belief system than their 'theistic' counterparts. Furthering the confusion, people who are theistic with respect to god(s) other than the locally popular one(e.g. Hindus in the United States) are sometimes labelled "athiests" by those believing in different god(s).
Some people label as 'weak atheists' those who lack any faith (I think you're labelling these 'agnostics') and 'strong atheists' those who actively believe that no god exists. I don't really care for those labels, but it is an error to lump all atheists into second category. Calling strong atheists religious is in itself arguable- it seems to me to be a redefinition of the word religious- but a case could be made for it.
Lacking a belief in any theistic belief system does not constitute a religion, and is accurately described as atheism.
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Re:Defend the First Amendment...
I'm 90% kidding. And I have no problem with citizens owning firearms -- my grandfather was a farmer, he needed a rifle to fight off the foxes that threatened his animals.
But seriously, I have never heard anyone explain why a private citizen needs to own a fully automatic assault rifle (other than "it's in the constitution", which is the traditional definition of begging the question).
All the rights have limits; for instance it's not free speech to shout "fire" in a crowded theater. The question is, where does one draw the line with the 2nd amendment? I say it's gone further than it safely should. -
Re:Meteor?It skimmed the atmosphere of Mars and bounced off and then travelled to Earth at a substantial fraction of the speed of light, to miss Earth by a few Earth radii.
joke? immanuel velikovsky has made himself quite a reputation positing such events. calling himself a "scientist" he's claimed that venus was "ejected" from jupiter 3500 or so years ago whereupon it cruised around the solar system with a whole bunch of near misses of larger bodies before settling into its current orbit.
the majority of his "proof" for all this are biblical stories about astrological events. for instance, velikovsky posits that the friction of venus passing closeby earth raised the surface temperature of this planet " sufficient to make the vermin of the earth propagate at a very feverish rate" thus resulting in the plagues in exodus. that's just a sample.
wildly improbable to say the least - but velikovsky has managed to sell millions of books to the heroically undereducated public flogging this theory. a nutbar... but a rich nutbar.
right. sensical talk about velikovsky can be had here.
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Re:Not in doubt, but....It is actually very hard to find a spot to drill where you will NOT hit water if you drill deep enough.
Randi is not a lunatic. He has been very even handed in his testing. And he did NOT dismiss dowsing out of hand, he has tested it.
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Feng Shui
This is also the state that wanted to make Feng Shui a requirement in every CA office.
Josh