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As the parent says, MCE is a performance hog, which means you need a grunty CPU, which means heat and lots of it. Heat requires cooling, and cooling is the prime cause of noise.

Trust me - you dont want a noisy PC in your living room.

Myth runs very well on low spec fanless EPIA mobos.

It *is* possible to reduce cooling noise significantly in a box running MCE, but the price is driven up, and you often end up having to customise the box. Further, there are likely to be water pumps or fans still in there.

Myth is a *pig* to install (even with Knoppmyth, which I use), but you can build a completely silent system.

Dont underestimate how much the noise will bother you.

Get a tuner card first - especially something like PVR-350 that can encode TV to MPEG and simultaneously decode MPEGS to S-video/composite for playback.

My 1.2GHz machine uses 10-15% CPU encoding/recording one channel and, at the same time, playing something previously recorded at 1366x768 (with ads removed of course :-)

Also, unless you have done some significant work around dealing with heat, you have a pretty noisy machine in your living room. Ick.

If anyone starts this type of project, get a low spec and very quiet machine, such as one based on an EPIA MII10000 (1.0GHz) or fanless Eden600. Add a PVR-350 and a *quiet*/fast/big disk (I have 550GB), and you are away.

Oh, and use KnoppMyth for a quick and painless install.

That sounds like a great suggestion. I did a bit of a search and came up with http://www.viavpsd.com/product/epia_mini_itx_spec. jsp?motherboardId=21 I wish more motherboards were fanless, not just for durability but to keep the noise down. That constant drone gets to me.

The comments seemed to lean towards the Soekris and similar GEODE products, and the VIA EPIA.

This story alone may be sufficient to convince some of you of the need for openness in BIOSes:

A while back I bought a VIA EPIA-M system to function as a firewall at home. Nice and quiet, low power consumption, onboard LAN and one extra PCI slot. Nice, I thought, I can install a second NIC and use it as a firewall effectively.

Only problem is: when inserting a second NIC the throughput for both drops to the 100kbit/s range! A known issue with VIA for more than a year now, but they still haven't released a new BIOS. For about half a year I ran with just the onboard LAN and used IP aliasing to get the job done, but that resulted in a less reliable firewall.

I finally went ahead after some encouraging reports and flashed an unreleased beta BIOS that can be found somewhere on the VIA site if you look really hard (or happen to stumble across it). This totally solved the problem. That was late last year.

My point? An open BIOS would have been fixed and released so much faster (not that I could have done so myself as I'm not a programmer) than VIA's "efforts" have been so far.

See here for VIA's last BIOS release; the problem has been known for longer than that.

See either chapter 2 of the manual or the paragraph below the second photo of the motherboard on the Linuxdevices article: The Epia MS is the first VIA mainboard available with the fanless 1GHz VIA Eden ESP processor announced last February. The board is also available with a fanless 800MHz VIA Eden ESP processor, or with a "fansink" equipped 1.2GHz VIA C3.

For the cut-paste challenged - click here

Epia CL

I think they do listen.

For a board that concentrates on being thin, I find it surprising that that dimension isn't listed. It's not on Via's product listing for this board and it's not in the user's manual (pdf).

Visually, i'm guessing that it is thicker than the 0.75" base of my PowerBook, but I'd like to know the real size...

For a board that concentrates on being thin, I find it surprising that that dimension isn't listed. It's not on Via's product listing for this board and it's not in the user's manual (pdf).

Visually, i'm guessing that it is thicker than the 0.75" base of my PowerBook, but I'd like to know the real size...

It is extremely quiet (only audible humming comes from two small fans on the case) which is important to me. It is also very low on energy consumption. I got an APC Back-UPS ES-350 (just a couple of days before the big black-out here, in North-East USA --- could not have been wiser :) The UPS is rated at 8 minutes under 100W load and 2 minutes under 200W but it lasts over 40 minutes powering my server and my DSL modem.

Another thing I am really happy about is the fact that VIA seems to be doing a good job supporting Linux. Personally, I have never had trouble running Red Hat on mine (although, I hear FC2 had issues with it that were only recently fixed --- but that was FC2's problem).

Overall, I feel that this has been a really great product and would wholeheartedly recommend it. I am also very happy to see that VIA has been constantly improving them. I am looking forward to seeing the upcoming nano-ITX boards.

There is already:
CL series

Get a VIA EPIA system (see here for details). They have a fanless CPU and power supply. Plus the boards are small enough that you can build a PC that's the size of a Gamecube (or smaller). Their mainboards run as small as 12cm x 12 cm!

here are the drivers.
"In case the driver binary does not work properly or contains bugs, its source code is available for users to modify and compile"
and here are the tech specs.

go knock yourself out

Arguably though, early adopters are the only ones with PC-based 'digital convergence' systems. They are based on expensive motherboards and fast, hot chips. As a result they are either noisy, or a lot of money was spent to make them quiet. The market is waiting for a small, quiet, powerful (in relative terms) platform.
The Via Epia boards are almost there but are just a little short of processor horsepower to handle DivX decoding (and other processor intensive operations). The rumours are that there will be a 1.2Ghz Via C3 processor on a new core revision (C5P) out shortly. C3's provide roughly 50% of the horsepower of a similarly clocked P3 in the current core so at 1.2 Ghz (with some potential improvements in the new version core) you are almost at the level where you have a cool, quiet platform with enough horsepower to be a serious media-center PC.
Of course, Via are rumoured to have some very cool stuff on the horizon, included a possible dual-cpu board and a new processor codenamed 'Esther' to be produced in IBM's fab.
Maybe this is what I am waiting for? So perhaps this is the year when digital convergence becomes a reality for the masses?

Mini-ITX boards can't handle Intel CPUs. They are designed for VIAs own EDEN CPU.

Still...they just don't have the Kawaii factor of the Cobalt cube. I want one but I can't spare the money, dammit.

My advice is get a mini-ITX integrated mobo from VIA, like maybe this one that I have.

You can put a gig of RAM in it. It's small and quiet. It's not super fast but at 1GHz it's fast enough for most real work. It's got a PCI slot in case you need to add a modem.

If you add a 5400 RPM hard drive and a DVD+-RWCDRWblabla device and a low-power LCD monitor, you should be good to go for a proper desktop system with low power.

If I recall correctly the chip on that mobo draws something like 24W at full load.

You can even get an external power supply to help protect your wooded silence. Don't know much about electronics, but the external PS would probably be a good start if you want to hook it up to your alternative power source directly.

You can buy complete systems, or parts, or just learn a lot about the mini-ITX world and what people do with the computers, over at mini-itx.com.

I sometimes go live in a very small town in the mountains, not as remote as what you're talking about but still- noise is a much bigger factor when it's competing with the sound of the river than when it's competing with the sound of cars.

Good luck.

Might as well give the run-down

• VIA EPIA CL motherboard. Has dual ethernet builtin. This is my router/NAT/Linux server box.
• VIA C3 1GHz
• 512M DDR
• I found a nice case on axiontech (Also made by VIA.)

I feel they make quality products - at least in the Mini-ITX formfactor (haven't tried anything else of theirs, except MB chipsets of course).

I've used several of their Mini-ITX boards for projects, and haven't had any problems yet. I find that for the size and power, they are actually pretty powerful. No, you can't play the latest games on them (or any other game for that matter hehe), no you can't play high quality DivX or encode music on the lower models (You can on the new ones though, like the M8000 and M10000).
But they are quiet, fit into almost anything (I'm half done modding a VCR to accept the newer Via M10000 Mini-ITX board. When done I'll have a completely functional nearly silent and hidden HTPC next to the TV on the AV shelf, complete with a working VCR), and can handle most jobs you need done. Drop a 3ware 8 port SATA RAID card into it's available PCI slot and you have an excellent fileserver.

Since those are Mini-Itx form factor cases I suspect that Inspiri put a Via Epia board inside.An Epia 5000 can be bought at Ebay. Then get an hd (160 GB are cheaper per GB nowdays).

The price will be lower than 300 bucks.

Epia 5000 have the lowest power intake, which should be considered if the box is to be run 24/7. But the prices on ebay seem to allow an M10000 to be had for not much more. The Epia M10000 has the advantage that one can change it to a media box for the living room (like Tivo), since it is fast enough for Divx and has TV-Out. This way one could have everything in one box. By putting mldonkey on it it could even run as a server for filesharing 24/7 while one could access mldonkey from everywhere using its http interface.

Much more for much less money without having them spy on your data. Sometimes it pays to be geek ;-)

VIA EPIA M Mainboard description
EPIA M image
EPIA M manual (7.12M - slow download)

mini-itx.com - bunch of other similar project

VIA EPIA M Mainboard description
EPIA M image
EPIA M manual (7.12M - slow download)

mini-itx.com - bunch of other similar project

VIA EPIA M Mainboard description
EPIA M image
EPIA M manual (7.12M - slow download)

mini-itx.com - bunch of other similar project

VIA EPIA M Mainboard description
EPIA M image
EPIA M manual (7.12M - slow download)

mini-itx.com - bunch of other similar project

VIA EPIA M Mainboard description
EPIA M image
EPIA M manual (7.12M - slow download)

mini-itx.com - bunch of other similar project

VIA EPIA M Mainboard description
EPIA M image
EPIA M manual (7.12M - slow download)

mini-itx.com - bunch of other similar project

I have a mini-itx box that is cheaper and (subjectively) cooler looking. I just don't have a remote, but who cares with a RF keyboard/mouse combo... Now what I want to know is, if that is based on Linux, then is there any way to get the software so that I can turn my own box into a PVR? Now that's an OSS I'm looking forward to! :-)

Bonus: look for the following and you too can build a Tivo out of your old PC's spare parts: Via Epia M 933 Mhz, Cubid 2699R mini-itx case (also in black), IBM Wireless Navigator Pro. (note: all these links point to pictures, not shops). Add the appropriate Linux distro, and voila, cheap PVR.

Or check out the product page.

Run, don't walk, to your nearest computer store and ask them to get Mni-ITX style motherboards for you. Via makes a few of them. Check out viavpsd.com, its whats in this little box.

Here you'll find the inexpensive cases you need, and here you'll find where to buy a mini-itx mainboard.

Moore's law not quite what most people think. If I'm not mistaken, it isn't that processor power will double every eighteen months, but that transsistor density will double. Processsor speed doubling is a side effect of this.

I think there will always be a market for the fastest chips possible. However, there are other ways for this trend to take us rather than powerful CPU chips. These would include lower power, lower size, higher system integration, and lower cost.

The EPIA series mini-ITX boards are an example of this. Once the VIA processors get powerful enough to decode DVDs well, it is very likely that they won't need to get more powerful for most consumer applications. However, if you look at the board itself (e.g. here),
you'll see that component count is stil pretty high; power consumption, while small, still requires a substantial power supply in the case or a large brick.

When something like this can be put together, capable of DVD decoding, having no external parts other than memory (and maybe not even that), and the whole thing runs on two AAA batteries, then you'd really have something. Stir bluetooth (or more likely its sucessors) into the mix and you have ubiquitous computing, capable of adapting to their environement and adapting the environment to suit human needs.

Come on, Intel. Do it. Centrino for the desktop. I dare ya. I double-dog dare ya.

Oh yeah...any DRM features in Centrino? That's the only downside I can think of.

check out the VIA EPIA Mainboard, with a built in 933MHz VIA C3 processor, 5.1 channel audio, video, tv-out, hardware mpeg decoder, 10/100 LAN and more.
All for a measly price of approximately $150 or so.
All you need is a tv tuner card (note: this mobo only has 1 PCI slot).

More info here

Also linked from the Inquirer, these make use of the cheap and highly integrated mini-itx motherboards from Via Technologies. The case is a bit wacky but the motherboards are great for making little silent boxes for use as a firewall or low-end desktop machine.

I think we'll start seeing all sorts of systems in the 10^2 to 10^3Mhz range over the next year or two. VIA in particular have some interesting products with their fanless C3 processors which operate at 500Mhz - plenty for most applications, and the Eden platform. People will be more interested in smaller systems which are quieter, cheaper, and which use less power. And when you can run things like Linux or Lindows you start seeing things like the Walmart PCs, which I figure is pretty much what they're after. Of course VIA aren't the only ones in this area, although I am more interested in supporting them (and Transmeta) than a certain other chip manufacturer with a virtual monopoly.

If you want a small, low power platform, look at the latest from Via, which contains 933 MHz processor (C3), USB2, audio, video, TV, ethernet, 1x PCI, in a 17cmx17cm form-factor for $160 from Fry's.

It definatly blows away that transmeta one: giving more functionality for a fraction of the cost. You can even get slower (~600 MHz) versions which are totally fanless.

Someone else mentioned serial ports for connecting to LCDs like these. If you want a graphical LCD with a fast update rate parallel may be the way to go.

Note that I'm talking about small LCDs and VFDs which might be monochrome & only have a resolution of 240x64 or 240x128. While the case modders tend to use them for displaying temperatures, mp3 song titles and spectrum bargraphs, think about the embedded possibilities. Not only are these LCDs smaller, but they draw less power than VGA and better color TFTs.

You could boot from a CompactFlash card and have a really teeny hot tub controller that uses fingerd to report current temperature & power consumption, using the parallel port to talk to the sensor/control board.

Consider a box with a 200GB 3.5" hard drive and a "universal" 12V power supply that'll run from a car, a big battery or a lump-in-the-line (power consumption a bit high for a wall-wart). Not a 1.7" or 2.5" drive, but enough room to hold every CD you own maybe even in FLAC instead of OGG as well as every digiphoto you've ever taken.

With no CD-ROM or AGP slot, it would be considerably smaller than a Shuttle XPC or even a Cubid. The new VIA EPIA M will have USB 2.0, FireWire and 100Mb/s ethernet for getting stuff in & out of your "All Box."

For controlling playback on the go add a few buttons and a rotary encoder scanned by the parallel port and a serial LCD (or a PIC to handle user input & a parallel LCD).

You can build smaller systems for ip to real-world, but this thing runs Linux and BSD, a real 32 bit processor with an MMU and plenty of memory. None of that mucking about with 8-bit assembly or (horrors) BASIC Stamps. Write your nuclear-bomb-tipped earth-boring machine control code in Java if you like!

Hardware for the embedded market is usually more expensive for equivalent capability as PC stuff. You can get an EPIA board for a lot less than an ARM development kit. [I know about power consumption, cost in volume, etc. etc., but for fun small projects, off-the-shelf wins.]

By the way, this guy has solve the problem of how to get 802.11b in a teeny box. The mini-ITX boards don't have PCMCIA and a PCI Wi-Fi card is going to take up a lot of room. Solution: gut a USB Wi-Fi box. The Orinoco one has a teensy USB to PCMCIA interface & a regular Wi-Fi card. Dunno 'bout Linux drivers for it, tho.

All that said, I would like to see a "legacy free" mini-ITX board for building regular-old personal computers.

Am I a psycho?

Hey, that looks like the one my grandma was making the other day... ;)

That's a large motherboard. Any particular reason why you're making it so big? Why not a small motherboard? Are there certain features that warrant it? Even if you did have to use better graphics (ala video card) there are baby ATX boards out there, or smaller boards with one PCI slot.

Can't say much more without you listing the components you're using. I'm interested in the software you'll be using (probably writing). Pop up a web page about the parts, with the pictures, and the source, and I'd bet you'd have a popular site. There might be webrings out there of other people doing the same thing, I know that the homemade car-mp3 players had a large community....

I myself want to make a cheap laptop alternative with a small motherboard like the one I linked above. Something small that would fit in a backpack, with firewire hard drive and firewire CDR. And a large LCD built into the backpack. --all for ripping/encoding CD's while at the library.

Now, I could not find the speed of the CDRW/DVD on the Mac anywhere.

It didn't take long to find this page with all the apple specs, including:

"10/100/1000BASE-T Ethernet connector (RJ-45)"

"SuperDrive (DVD-R/CD-RW); writes DVD-R discs at 2x speed, reads DVDs at 6x speed, writes CD-R discs at 8x speed, writes CD-RW discs at 4x speed, reads CDs at 24x speed "

and

"Your Power Mac G4 comes with 90 days of telephone support and a one-year limited warranty. Purchase the AppleCare Protection Plan to extend your service and support to three full years."

I still wouldn't pay that much for either system. I would be interested in the SparcClassic-sized box though. My current PC project is putting one of these mobos into one of these Sun 411 cases. As soon as I can figure out a sensible PSU for it, anyway. A G4 cube board in the same case would be very nice.

http://www.viavpsd.com/product/Download.jsp?mother boardId=21

Note also the upcoming EPIA-M motherboard, which features USB2, FireWire, and 933MHz clock speed.

As for serial consoles, it appears that the Linux Bios has been ported to it:

http://www.trustytech.com/TMBM-MINI-ITX.htm

That would not only give you serial console management, but also very fast Linux boots.

How much would a similar 3-iface Mini-ITX system cost?

Pretty much the same amount: motherboard, CPU, case, PCI riser, screws, cables, and brick power supply from CaseOutlet.com costs a little under $200. Add to that a $20 CF-to-IDE adapter and the DWL-520. If you want to use lower-cost 5 1/4" drives, you can get a slightly larger case for slightly more money.

Another choice is the WalMart Linux PC, which appears to be using same motherboard, but for $228 also gives you a minitower, a CD-ROM drive, and a 10G disk, and perhaps more fans than you like.

"Measuring just 170mm x 170mm, the VIA EPIA Mini-ITX mainboard is 30% smaller than the smallest Flex-ATX platforms, while maintaining Micro ATX chassis compliancy. It also provides the smallest and coolest processing environment available, including an optional fanless configuration. The VIA Apollo PLE133 North Bridge features integrated graphics with 2D/3D acceleration and DVD Motion Compensation, accompanied by onboard SoundBlaster(TM) and SoundBlaster(TM) Pro compatible audio, delivering key multimedia capabilities. Onboard 10/100 LAN, TV-Out, an additional PCI slot, and a full set of I/O features provide ample connectivity and expansion options."

For more info, check out the unofficial source of mini-itx goodness... Mini-ITX.com.

Of course, there is still the issue of keyboard, waterproofing, touchscreens, and all that. But getting a nice, cool-running, system that fits in a 7"x7" square is a good start.

Using a C3 processor, it is not nearly as fast as a comparable clockspeed PIII, but it should be sufficient for most tasks. It is also available very cheaply (Dutch local is about $130 for the 800MHz version), and can by quite well casemodded.

FYI, the mainboard measures 17x17cm (6.8" square), has one PCI slot, and has pretty much everything on board. It's fairly silent, since it only uses a smallish fan on the 800MHz CPU, and passive cooling for the 533MHz one.

Cases can be cheaply had. Even Ikea has a perfectly suitable case available. Silent, small, cheap, and somewhat expandable.

And most impressive: it's got a solid-metal case that's much more recyclable than any plastic, and costs one-eighth ($200) what the "Green PC" does ($1600).

My current DNS, mail, and web server is 11.5" x 2.5" x 10.75" and draws about 20 watts. It's based on the VIA C3 EPIA motherboard. The only downside for your use is that there's only room for one hard drive inside this tiny case. But it's cheap (less than $200) and as the power input is 12V, I use two paralleled gel-cells for a UPS. (That way I can swap out one battery for maintenance without interrupting anything.) My DSL router also runs off 12V. Linux installed very easily.

There's a similar VIA-CPU based low power motherboard for a little less money that draws so little power that there's no CPU fan. For reliability this may be a good choice as it reduces the number of moving parts.

If you insist on room for two hard drives, see these cases.

Your requirements aren't so difficult: they're pretty typical "barebones" needs.

Until recently the no-fan issue posed the biggest challenge. This is why there's so much interest in the VIA mini-ITX boards - one of them, the Eden 553MHz has no fan, while the faster C3 800 MHz does (though with a larger heatsink it probably could get away with passive cooling only.) There's a 1GHz C3 version coming later this year.

These mini-ITX boards retain the essential I/O connections for a desktop system. Either one should do the job for you as well as a larger PC.

One of the other cases shown in the article, the Casetronic ("Cubid") 2677R, is in my opinion easier to work with than the Lex they reviewed. It differs from the Lex mainly in that the PCI is 'flipped over' which improves cooling for both the PCI card and the motherboard. Also there's enough room for a less-expensive and better-performing 3.5" hard disk.

The dual-head issue would need a second VGA card (an option to consider would be to use the TV out.) Software-wise, implementing dual-head is the same as any other platform: it's whatever your OS supports. Your secondary challenge is to choose a VGA card that has no fan, which rules out the high-end models. However, if you're willing to do a bit of thermal engineering, the Casetronic case could accomdate a larger heatsink on the VGA card, perhaps making passive cooling an option for a card that otherwise needs a fan.

Wheel mouse support is the same as any other PC: USB or PS/2. By the same token, Windows and/or Citrix should be no problem (there's Ethernet on-board.)

- dvd_tude

Heck, just use an EPIA based system. Cheaper than a Dreamcast. Boot from a CF card. Fanless. Silent.

Here is what you want VIA EPIA Mini ITX Mainboard Get the one with the Eden ESP 5000 processor, and it needs zero active cooling and pulls under 6 watts
Some people may complain about divix or DVD playback - from what I read, that is a legit gripe with the onboard video which shares main memory. It will play MP3s just fine. If you need high speed video, add in a hither end (but still passive cooling) PCI card.

It comes with onboard video, sound and networking. The video has TV-Out w/ Integrated Macro Vision 7.01, S-Video or Composite video output, Supports NTSC/PAL TV formats. Via has a link on the site to places that cary them

I haven't bought from them so YMMV; I'm looking at idot.com to get one to replace my mail file-server at home, since I hate fan noise, and burning power 24x7.

... and roll your own.

Look at MP3Car.com which has the details you need. Check out the forums.

Currently the Epia MB with a laptop HD via a 2.5 to 3.5 HD converter a slimline DVD/CD-R. You can use the S video or composite for a mobile LCD or serial based character LCD or go all the way and run VGA or SVGA LCD. Schematics on building the Sproggy DC to DC PSU or buy an ATX DC to DC power supply which is probably the hardest component to find.

On mp3car.com's forums you can find schematics for Delayed relays, noise suppression, why NOT to use an inverter, etc. For pics: mp3 webring list or searchmp3cars list.
Look at Mini-itx which has the spacecase that was discussed here on /.
So much for your afternoon.

Yes, /. needs a DIY section for hardware hackers.