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Bungie Software Bought By Microsoft
Cannonball writes: "An article posted by Alta Vista Tech announces the sale of Bungie to Microsoft for an undisclosed sum. Halo will become an X-Box title." There's been rumors about this for the last few days, but here's the confirmation. Bungie makes such fine titles as the Myth series - which I really enjoyed.
I could live with playing halflife from a windows machine, on linux servers... I suppose this virtualy rules out stable, easily administratable halo servers. roll on tf2 & halflife 2! *drops smoke grenade*
b0rk b0rk moose
As the typical die-hard Mac user, who went crazy back in the day for all those original Marathon leaks, then the infamous Demo release (which was hacked to extend game play to 20 minutes...the floors of "Mars Needs Women!" littered with your co-workers bodies), I was naturally hit in the gut with this news. "How DARE you Bungie! You sold out! I'm going to stick my Bungie CD's in the microwave and mail the remains, postage due, back to you!" Please. Think back...back to when you first got that Marathon Demo...appearing in the little hallway on the UESC Marathon...that creepy music, the dark, claustrophibic hallways, the mindless Bugs whapping their sticks at you. It was the tingly, creepy game experience of a lifetime, that many have not felt since, even with Marathon 2 and certainly not Infinity. Marathon is now open-sourced, and Myth (one of the only other Bungie games I ever played) is in the hands of Take-Two. T-T also has the rights to develop two games with the HALO engine (Marathon IV, anyone?). I say good riddance, Bungie. Have fun with XBox, enjoy your new rainy climes. Me, I'm gonna keep playing network M2 (still the best), and don my "They're everwhere!!" T-shirt.
On bungie's Microsoft Acquisition FAQ, the claim to have the freedom to choose what platforms they develop titles for, except:
And now that people have figured out how to get CDR's to boot, i'm sure it won't be long before linux is running on them.
Thats the beauty of open hardware. And nothing is being assimilated.
Unreal and many other beautiful games use DX7, but doesn't mean they have been assimilated :)
I don't think anyone needs to do any "parroting." Look at the history that is well documented throughout the industry. Do you hear from *any* of the companies MS has enveloped? I haven't...
It's only when we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything...
Hmmm... if you believe that, then I have some farmland in Sonora that I'd like to sell you.
Mr. Billy Gates has a long history of doing things the way HE says, else you can go to hell. He's a power-hungry sourpuss, and also he's been known to disregard contracts previously.
So, with that in mind, can you truly believe that Bungie will remain autonomous? I doubt it, very much so.
-elf
FYI, interfaces closely tied to the real world like MS Bob had been around since IIRC IBM prototypes from the late 70's early 80's. Also the PDA UI General Magic put out just before Bob came out was remarkably similar. I don't think that MS actually came up with the idea for Bob either. That's both sad and frightening.
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
this sounds similar to the issue between music artists and RIAA, only instead of fame, the RIAA takes the money.
eudas
Blessed is he who expects the worst, for he shall not be disappointed.
That leaves Descent as the first successful FPS with a real 3D world.
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Fuck the system? Nah, you might catch something.
You make the concept of looking up and down in a game seem trivial - ever try walking around IRL without looking up or down? It certainly made the game much more interesting just with that addition.
Not to mention the fact that DOOM was pretty boring - I mean Marathon was the first FPS I played that kept me awake trying and trying to finish just one more level. Not just for the satisfaction of finishing, but I really wanted to find out what was going to happen story-wise. Creepy game!
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"It was people! People soiled our green!"
MARATHON FOREVER!!!!
long live durandal.
semantics are everything!
Ha ha ha!! Good one! not. Where did you read those Many Slashdot commenters say "it'll last forever" comments? All I read on the thread was tons and tons of lambasting. Even I thought it was downright shameful, I mean, if you don't like something --which, curiously, is free-- then you simply don't use / do / read / have it.
But we'll see how long it lasts.
-elf
What he was referring to was EA Sports' habit of only doing small incremental updates. The NHL series in particular gets rave reviews year in and year out yet with every iteration I haven't seen justification of dropping another $50 every year. Triple Play 2001, anyone? Thought not.
Remember MS buying Access Software? Links LS 2000 (The first under the Microsoft banner) got hammered by a bunch of reviewers for not being enough of an upgrade. The original poster is worried about the same thing here.
Oh, and anyone who thinks that inventing new sports is a dumb idea obviously has never played Rocket Jockey. Inventing a new sport just takes actual skill, something sorely lacking in the computer gaming industry.
The Quake 3 engine is a state of the art engine.
The problem with the Marathon 2 engine is that is was over 1 year old by the time the new game came out. They were competing against games like quake and it might have been in their best interest to improve the engine. Of course, you are right about gameplay and plot. These were two of strong points of the whole series.
The thing that I was angry about was that my Macintosh was starting to lose out to my friends' openGL PCs in the game market.
Keeping
I was filling in for the spelling nazi for a while, but it is too nitpicky and annoying.
Besides, this is our friend clith's first post ever. I think he deserves a break. His lame homepage is filled with boring news (not flamebait, this is factual).
Keeping
Marathon, on the other hand, was fully 3D.
Almost. I was an avid Marathon map maker when it first came out, and while I'll give you that Marathon was lighyears ahead of DOOM at the time (those debates w/ the PC folk were great back then), Marathon had it's quirks, they were just hidden a lot better.
The biggest problem was that you couldn't have a room with two opening in a wall showing on top of each other. Meaning, you couldn't have a doorway on the ground level, and then a doorway directly above it on the second level. You could program it just fine into your map, but once you turned to look at it *BARF* the machine would crash. It took me a while just to figure out that this was the problem, as it would crash as soon as it got one frame of that on screen. There were other minor quirks, but you get the idea.
Still, Marathon had to be one of the best games ever when it was introduced.
Marathon wasn't 3D; you could not create a true bridge (much less an object unconnected to any other wall), most people call it 2.5D, in that height was simulated with Z-coords from the polys. I'd even call it 2.5+D; you had the ability to overlap polys in the same X-Y space unlike Doom, thus allowing one to create 'floors' at various heights. You could even have these polys overlap at the same Z space, to allow effects where you could have players think they are in the same spot but were actually in separate parts of the map (they won't see each other, however, save by radar positioning. One of the network maps that came with the first Marathon was 5-D space that used this aspect well.)
"Pinky, you've left the lens cap of your mind on again." - P&TB
"I can see my house from here!" - ST:
with humpy love,
with humpy love,
humpmonkey
Does this mean Microsoft is turning into another Electronic Arts company, where they cant make they're own games so they buy other company's to make the games for them?
I don't think Microsoft realizes they are buying a game company. My guess is they figured with "Bungie" software installed, whenever Windows goes down it'll come back up. If only that were the case.....
Give me my freedom, and I'll take care of my own security, thank you.
Bungie was bought by Microsoft but they sold their Trademarks Oni and Myth to Take2 Interactive. Take2 are owning Gathering of Developers (GOD) so GOD will work on new games from this two lines now.
Halo might not come to linux but Mac is not completely out of the question. Microsoft does support Macintosh quite well. There is Office, drivers for the Hardware and some games. If it is easy to port Halo to the Mac (because they are halfway there allready?) then it will happen. Halo 2 though - I think not!
the press release with info about take 2 can be found here
Hank! White!
Normally I would find this an absolutely paranoid remark, but according to
:P
ZDNet Microsoft paid about $40 mln for bungie, which is (in my opinion) a bargain for a developper that
A) Produced several known titles already
B) has a large enough infrastructure to be producing two 3d shooters of which one is promissing to be the hit of the year.
If I was selling out to MS I'd at least make it worthwhile for my soon to be assimilated employees.
Anyone with a little more financial perspective care to disagree ?
"Xbox is the first non-sucky architecture for a console"
Well, they would say that now, wouldn't they... But seriously, Microsoft hasn't got the rights to Myth, Take2 software get to keep that along with Oni, so it doesn't look like the doom and gloom predicted by the nay-sayers here.
Well, at least it looks like the X-Box will have some games for it when it finally arrives. That's always the main sticking point for consoles - the initial games generally suck, going more for flashy graphics and effects rather than solid gameplay. Maybe Microsoft are trying to buck that trend by getting hold of someone to produce some playable games, something Bungie seem to do very well.
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Jon E. Erikson
Jon Erikson, IT guru
We don't know that it's xbox-only yet.
We only have that logical suspicion.
I want to know who's leaving and who's staying..that'll help us get a better picture.
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Make mine methylphenidate.
Actually, There were no plans to update the Myth series after Chimera, on any platform. Who knows, Take 2 interactive, now owners of Oni and Myth could find another development studio to continue on the series past what Jason Jones and Alex Seropian felt was the end of the series, but such a sequel would seem unlikely as the cross platform tools Bungie made are probably in house software.
... it isn't the end of the world (or Bungie for that matter). Read this interview for clarification. Then you'll know that
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Donate free food here
After Myth 2, the Warcraft/Starcraft type RTS just seemed so flat and non-immersive to me. That was a great game engine with a lot of future potential.
And an anime action game with such good 3D... bitchin.
But alas... as they say... all good things...
It's just too excruciatingly bad that Bungiee had to end this way... assimilated and destroyed by the collective.
Rest in peace Bungie. You will be missed.
john
Resistance is NOT futile!!!
Haiku:
I am not a drone.
Remove the collective if
Imagine all the people...
Rumours abound that this buyout demonstrates M$'s concerns about a potential lack of third party support for the X-Box. But where is the justification for this concern? Most games developers appear optimistic about the X-Box as a platform, especially with it's nVidia GPU. So are M$ worried, or is this just idle speculation?
I also doubt the ownership of Bungie will decrease the quality of their products. Microsoft's games division often puts out some good stuff like the Age of Empires series and the Close Combat series
you do realize that "Microsoft's games division" had nothing to do with the creation of the Close Combat series, yes?
CC1 and CC2 (not sure about 3) were created by a company called Atomic Games, which is not a division of Microsoft, but rather an separate company. once the finished product existed, Microsoft bought the rights and distributed the game. so if you have a gratifying mental image of a bunch of coders in Seattle working hard to make good real-time WWII tactical combat games, it's a fantasy.
-steve
--- "We also were guided by the unlikelihood that anyone would face supernatural evil armed only with technology."
Bungie could be the next to follow this route. I remember the developers saying the Mac market was too small, they really wanted to, but, sniff, it just wasn't possible.
"I, of course, had my suspicions", Peter Bazooka by the Dead Milkmen
Myth and Oni are apparently safe in the hands of Take2, whether or not they're linux friendly is debateable. I would image they have no love for Mono-Macrosoft. I see an opportunity. Does anyone want to fly the flag of open source development to Take2??
> Now, When a kid thinks X he'll think Microsoft
> first, and then have to be explained exactly
> what X really is.
Exactly - and it is a marketing coup by MS. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if Exchange got renamed eXchange RSN.
I think it's called "Freedom To Innovate" or something like that.
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As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
I can't believe this crap! Why doesn't somebody send these people to prison! I'm not upset that Microsoft is quashing one of the best Mac gaming companies out there, I'm pissed that Microsoft is quashing one of the best gaming companies period. Damn, Halo, on XBox? gimmie a fucking break!
If it ain't broke, fix it 'til it is!
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
In an article posted last Thursday, MacSlash broke the story about the Bungie MS deal. Later that same day, the site was hacked because of the story.
Today, we're running a story about the deal, and we'll continue our coverage through the week. So far, the feedback has been very negative and people in the Mac community, are outraged and angry. Jason Jones has basically villified himself and sold out.. Stop by MacSlash to get more Mac News and add your voice to the mix.
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MacSlash: Your Daily Dose of Mac News and Discussion.
"Halo is a funny game. The "no gameplay" trailers have gotten fanboys drooling, but the reasons why are elusive. Halo isn't particularly high poly--a barren landscape with no landmarks--and there doesn't seem to be a whole lot to shout about, except a distinctive art style (reflective black soliders running"
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If you look at Bungie's Job Page you will see they are still hiring people primarily for the Oni and Halo projects. I would think if you are at a point where you are still recruiting team members, then you are far, far, from completing the project. I wonder how Bungie can keep a straight face while posting vaporous release dates AND job postings for the same projects at the same time.
No matter who you are, how big your company is, or how talented your staff is, you can always benefit inlearning from the skills of others.
Bungie built one of the most successful games of the past few years in Myth. MS built nothing worth noting. If I wanted to get myself deeper into the games market (especially imy longterm goal was to develop a better relationship with young computer users), I could either take a page out of somone else's book and try to copy their efforts (business models, programming strategies, focus groups, etc.), or I could buy them and put their knowledge to work for me directly. Of course in doing this I would try and get one of the most successful comapnies I could find, while keeping the size of the company to a minimum. This seems to be what MS is doing.
Expanding markets with new products is never easy. This sounds like a decent strategy to me. As far as the Bungie developers being immediately sapped of their motivation by this purchase, I don't think that will happen. Firstly, MS employees have a reputation for being quite zealous in their loyalty to the company. For all we might like to believe, it doesn't sound like a bad place to work. Secondly, who ever did fantastic work on a game by being motivated by something other that it being incredibly cool to get paid to develop a great game? This part certainly won't change, especially if Bungie is staying roughly autonomous withing the management structure.
A little more than $.02. Inflation happens.
To any future linux versions of Myth
*sigh*
First posting isn't trolling. It's...first posting.
sfoalex- dude, lay off the caffeine.
What will happen:
The Bungie guys will be absorbed into the rest of Microsoft and eventually they'll get tired of not being able to make their own decisions. They'll end up leaving and going their own separate ways, and the world will be a little worse for the whole process.
Take2 may try to find another developer but without the Bungie guys doing it, it won't be the same and will fail.
Old story--MS buys a company, makes more people rich, but destroys something good in the process.
Sad.
Vote Quimby.
end
Marathon was an improvement on DOOM, but it was still just 2.5D. It used ceilings, floors, smoke, and mirrors to imitate full 3D, but it wasn't. Quake was the first successful FPS with a real 3D world.
Gates' Law: Every 18 months, the speed of software halves.
One thing I haven't seen in all this discussion of Bungie's future is any mention of Bungie's developers. Where are _they_ going? Video games do not prominently display development credits as a rule, yet the people who develop the games are far more important to the final outcome than the name of the company. What is going to happen to the talent behind Oni, Halo, Myth and Marathon? IMHO, that's the really hot "property" here, not the Bungie name.
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I'll bet / with my Net / I can get / those things yet.
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I'll bet / with my Net / I can get / those things yet.
--Dr. Seuss
They have jumped Bungie, and as everyone knows, a Bungie Jump feels thrilling at the time, but ends up wrecking the spine and brain stem. The same will happen here. It'll be a thrilling ride, for Bungie, for a little while... they may not even feel the damage at first... but their fate really is sealed...
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
so much for being split by DoJ. will microsoft be sued again in 10 years, because of monopoly in the pc games market?
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[i just woke up
--- d'oh
What I am worried about is not mac versions.. MS has done some mac software. What I am more worried about is that people like Loki won't be allowed to port bungie's games to ,linux any more...
//rdj
No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness.
--Sheikh Abd-Al-Kadir, 1587
Apparently, Microsoft thinks buying into "Bungie" will help them "bounce" back after the government puts the smack down!
Bungie doesn't have to port Halo to the Mac, they alsways do simultanous development on at least Mac and Windows of their titles.
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Donate free food here
I read this article and the one at News.com carefully, and while it suggests that Halo may only be X-box only, I really can't see that happening. MS is trying to aim the Xbox at people that can't afford a full home computer, and thus compete with the game consoles like Dreamcast which come with limited internet access. The way I'm reading it, but obviously may not be right, is that Halo will be release first for the Xbox to allow it to be one of the first games you can get for it (possiblibly even shipping it), but at some point after the Xbox release, you'll see the PC and Mac (and Linux, maybe) releases. Especially with Halo's huge kudos at E3, *NOT* releasing this for PC platforms would be stupid. However, the article does use the word "proprietary" in here, so it may be that Halo is completely gone for the PC, which would really suck.
"Pinky, you've left the lens cap of your mind on again." - P&TB
"I can see my house from here!" - ST:
Umm, ok, that's really wierd.
Bungie, the one game company i had been aware of that would prioritize the mac version _ahead_ of the windows version.
_Why_ did MS choose _bungie_, of all companies? Yes, Halo and Oni look like they will be maybe two of the best games ever made, but still, MS could have just _liscensed_ those to port them to xbox, the way Loki or whoever ported Myth to linux did. And it says this way, they dont even get Oni..??
Seems awfully suspicious, just as the mac and linux begins getting some decent support in terms of games, microsoft finds the most crossplatformly open-minded company out there and buys it. I mean, the only reasons i can think of that MS would choose _them_ to buy would be.. well, really really paranoid conspiracy-theorist, to say the least.
Which brings me to the question: What about directx? Because buying Bungie would kind of imply MS is abandoning Directx.
Unless, of course, Bungies games start _using_ directx.. in which case we'll know that my most absurdly paranoid assumptions in the previous paragraph were completely right.
I know one thing though, MS isn't taking this whole breakup thing very seriously if they're still buying companies-- esp. since it seems to me if you're going to split OS from Apps, a game console hardware developer would sound a lot like OS and a game developer would sound a lot like Apps..
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
If I was making a home gaming console, I'd try to shoot for licensing of all the classic games I could get ahold of. Imagine the fun potential of MAME on the X-Box, with over 500 games to choose from, many being totally obscure arcade titles that never really saw light of day.
In typical topical fashion, Penny Arcade has a comic about this today...
So, is this for real? Penny Arcade says it just in the rumour stage right now...
BlackNova Traders
It's possible, but I think the last thing that Mikrosovt wants to do during the decision period of their Federal break-up case, is to look like they're trying to monopolize the gaming industry too! On top of that, id strikes me as being a somewhat anti-MS company, and I doubt they'd sell out. At least not for under 100 million, stock options, and a Ferrari each...oh wait, Carmack already has 5 :)
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"Cogito Eggo Sum: I think, therefore, waffle."
Quake is definitely the first true 3d game, in that you could have bridges, floating blocks, etc. I've tried enough map making in HL to know that floating blocks are quite possible which I misjudge the height of an object :D
I would still say though that there's a bit more to go to get 3D complete; Quake, HL, Unreal all are based on a free x-y movement with limited Z movement because of gravity. For 90% of the games out there, sure, this makes sense, but what if I really wanted to make a Matrix- like game, walking sideways on a wall? Or create a map based of Escher's designs? That Z dimension is still optimized away, to make the games faster, sure, but now that CPU and video boards of today can definitely meet the challenge, someone should add the completely free x-y-z type of movement for enclosed map games (In games like Homeworld, the free x-y-z is already there, but it's not in enclosed areas which make line of sight calculations harder.
"Pinky, you've left the lens cap of your mind on again." - P&TB
"I can see my house from here!" - ST:
Really. Look at Looking Glass. Look at the reasons Bungie has given, specifically their sense of where things are heading for _any_ independent developer- Bungie are not small time and if they were seeing that much trouble, the industry is DEAD and just hasn't fallen over yet. THINK.
If you recall all the way back to 1997, the only reason Microsoft developed Office 98 for the Mac at all is because Apple forced them into it. Apple caught Microsoft doing something blatently illegal, and rather than take them to court (long drawn out legal process where nobody wins), they signed an agreement requiring Microsoft to continue to develop and support Office and IE on the Mac (as well as a bunch of other things, like paying Apple gobs of money, buying $250 million of non-voting shares of AAPL, signing a patent licensing agreement, etc. etc.).
As you also may or may not recall, Microsoft has already dropped development of IE/Mac. If the appeals courts overturn the breakup (I don't expect it but Microsoft definitely has something up their sleeve), I wouldn't be surprised if they drop Office too.
And of course, lest there be any confusion, porting Carbon apps (such as Office and IE - well, Office isn't even Carbonized yet but it will be eventually) from Mac OS X to other versions of UNIX just isn't going to happen. Yeah, the core is BSD, but on top of that it's a Mac.
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$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
Clearly, games are part of the operating system! Would you consider Windows complete without Minesweeper or Solitaire? I didn't think so.
Seriously, I think this is a direct attack on Sony, who Microsoft is really worried about. They don't really give a damn about the Mac versions and maybe care a little about Linux. Read Cringely's article on the X-Box: "A Shot Across the Bow".
If John Carmack doesn't want to work for MS (and I don't think he does), then there is no point in MS buying id. Yes, they'll get Adrian and Kevin, but without JC there is no id. Every other "hot-shot" is gone.
The funniest thing about this comment is that it's been moderated insightful. "Funny", maybe, but insightful? With 12 billion dollars in the bank, it doesn't take more than 100 million or so to convince any small business owner that they're better off cashing out. Especially because (as another poster mentioned above) Microsoft keeps its gaming acquisitions as autonomous entities, and just takes over QA testing, win32 compliance, and marketing. It's a great deal for all involved.
In the US, Bungie is singular. In almost every other country in the world, Bungie are plural. If you want to flame someone for grammar, at least get it right.
Gates' Law: Every 18 months, the speed of software halves.
Slashdot is populated by quite a few jackasses.
Slashdot is populated by quite a few jackasses.
This message will probably rehash a little of what has been said in other comments, but I will try to be more complete to make up for it. Most of the people in this discussion have pointed out that Bungie is nothing compared to its contemporaries in terms of gameplay, game engine design, etc. This is a little true and a little not true. Yes, the Marathon engine was essentially the same as the Doom engine. However, there were a few significant improvements that the Marathon engine had. The physics model was much more complete -- height was a consideration, explosions could actually knock you into the air, you had to look up and down, etc. Also, the Marathon maps had the cool ability to do '5D space' where two rooms could occupy the same space at the same time and yet be distinct rooms. This made for some very cool and incredibly frustrating levels.
But the most important difference between Bungie and most of its competitors is this: Bungie actually cares about plot. As someone else said, Doom was go-kill-all-find-exit-next-level, whereas the Marathon series had an intricate storyline with twists, turns, deceptions, and all kinds of mysteries. Just consider The Marathon Story Page. For like five years Hamish Sinclair has been compiling his and others' observations about the Marathon storyline and trying to puzzle together all of the secrets, plot pieces, and inside jokes that Bungie has worked into the Marathon games.
Bungie's attention to plot depth and detail is not just part of the Marathon series. Since Pathways into Darkness, which was, I think, Bungie's first single player game, the company has loaded all of their games with so much plot that you'd have to draw a chart just to keep your head straight. Their dedication to plot also played into the Myth series and doubtless will play a large role in Halo.
The real difference between Bungie and other games is not innovations in game engines (though they have had a few of those) but absorbing and enthralling plot lines in their games. Once you start playing a Bungie game it's hard to stop.
I actually know the answer to that question. M$ is in the process of buying a hot strategy game company. This is another aspect of the M$ philosophy -- buy 3rd party developers to choke off support for other platforms.
The company I know about is already Windows-only and uses DirectPlay, so their impact on Mac/Linux is minor. But Bungie is a big huge loss to the cross-platform game world.
By the way, in the unlikely event that the M$ breakup goest through, which half would get DirectX & friends?
To make things worse.. they used OpenGL for the 3D work.
I thin they are going to switch to the bloody M$ crap for 3D.
That's not very good.
True, the engine wasn't state of the art anymore, but i always felt like Moo was just cleaner, i dunno, i guess i liked the art more.
plus, is it just me, or does anyone else hit the alpha state with some games, and not with others?
(i.e. no longer thing about doing, just doing, etc)
semantics are everything!
Microsoft gets a great developer on board for X-box, while Bungie gets a ton of money so that they can concentrate on making great games instead of worrying about their checkbook. At least we won't have to keep hearing that "But nobody's planning to make X-Box games yet" excuse anymore.
Oh, and one other thing. Some people are sounding pretty silly screaming for the DoJ. Please explain what this has to do with that situation.
Once again, fabulous news!
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
Ok so im really depressed about this. Anyone else? I remember back in the day when Bungie was an upstart making a superior prodcut (Doom || Doom2 vs. Marathon anyone?) for a minority market. And they were winning. What happened huh? Bugnie used to be a company with attitude. I wore my "Dont make us kick your ASS" shirt with pride. If anyone would care to comment as to when and where Bungie lost their balls id like to hear it...
Have they been in trouble for a while and I didnt notice? I cant imaginge...Myth I and II were spectacular...Oni demoed at MacWorld 2000 was such an awesome game. I was very confident i could say "Bungie Rocks" well through college when anyone asked me what games i can actually play on my mac. Whats with this selling out to the man huh?
Sidenote - Whats gonna happen to Bungie.net hmm? Their front page is less than informative.
turn up the jukebox and tell me a lie
I hate to distract from the conversation, but AC, please take the following advice:
...these guys..., not ...these guy... Also, ...buggiest..., not ...most buggy...
It's
My friend the jumps-to-dumb-conclusions nazi doesn't understand your "never saw..linux-related..so..preferred MS" logic.
Keeping
*bzzzt* wrong - Descent was the first successful FPS with a real 3D world.
If anybody has a copy of Rhapsody for Intel to give away, drop me an email.
It may be less a matter of "who CAN port to the X-Box" than "who WANTS to"... If they have to go BUY a company to get games on their new baby, it just might mean that programming for it is so evil, no third-party developer is willing. That'd certainly make some sense. And of course, knowing Microsoft, it'd certainly fit...
Sam: "That was needlessly cryptic."
Max: "I'd be peeing my pants if I wore any!"
Microsoft buys Bungie, both claim acquiree remains "autonomous". Many Slashdot commenters ask "how long will that last".
VA Linux buys Slashdot, both claim acquiree remains "autonomous". Many Slashdot commenters say "it'll last forever".
What's the difference?
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Compaq dropping MAILWorks?
Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
Any bets on how long the independance of the Bungie teams last in the meagacorp known as Microsoft? I say not long. Invariably the mentality of big business does not coincide with the ideas and mentality of "independant personalities." Bungie may still be a name on the box, but I think that the corporate culture that is Microsoft will get the best of Jason Jones and his crew. Perhaps it will be too much "innovation..."
One thing I don't quite get, but why did Bungie have to become part of Microsoft to develop for the Xbox? If Sony or Nintendo were the only developers of games for their consoles, they would be so lame and sad that no one would buy them. But you have companies like EA or SquareSoft who make games for their consoles. Why couldn't have Bungie done the same? They already developed multi-platform games like the Myth series that were incredible on Macintosh and Windows machines, and also had a port to Linux! I can't believe that they would have refused to make ports of future Myth titles and Halo for the Xbox. So if you need to work for Microsoft to develop for the Xbox, does that mean that companies like SquareSoft (Final Fantasy series) will not be able to port to it? And if they want to become wholly owned by Microsoft?
I am sad to see Jason Jones leave behind the Myth series, one of my favorite games to play, but I am relieved that Take2 now owns it entirely, and not Microsoft. I wish Bungie all the success that may come in developing for the Xbox, but future Myth titles just won't be the same. *sniff*
"I used to be an agnostic, but now I'm not so sure..."
I think the ports will go through as planned, although perhaps delayed to enhance the X-Box market. Microsoft is a game publisher, and they release titles for both the PC and Mac. It wouldn't make financial sense for them to drop the ports for "insufficient demand," when obviously this is not the case.
Too bad.
Marathon 1 flew on my first machine (80 MHz PowerPC). Was anyone else mad that Marathon 2 and Marathon \infty were based upon the same engine? I never bought \infty for that reason. These were cool 3D shoot-em-up games with an excellent storyline.
I guess we don't have to worry about them making good Mac titles anymore.
Keeping
In the eyes of Justice, Bill Gates will never be a saint but now he does have a Halo.
< sentiment > I have long respected Bungie as a creative game company. I've enjoyed playing Marathon and Myth on my Macintosh. < /sentiment > And I've really been looking forward to Halo. But now I have a serious ethical problem: I will not pay for Microsoft software (I did once aquire a discarded copy of Excel). And I insist on giving Bungie money for their excellent games. My, oh my.
So how about this: Bungie, I'll willingly donate $40-60 to your developer 'beverage fund' if you'll send me an unmarked Halo CD. How 'bout it?
Given one hour to live, the student replied: "I'd spend it with professor FP who can make an hour seem like a lifetime."
Let me tell you MS has got some balls. A couple of weeks after they where told they are a monoply they go out and start buying companys. When they go to get there appeal, this is only going to hurt them more. MS already makes cordless phones, when are they going to start making toasters ? Oh, wait, they all already do .....
until (succeed) try { again(); }
The strength of Bungie for many Mac users is that it is one company that will treat the Mac as a primary release platform, something that can't be said for most game companies. Being a die hard Mac user, I am apprehensive as to whether this commitement will remain, or whether this a tactic to take the Mac out of Bungie's equation?
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
See the bottom of the page at http://halo.bungie.com/press/It STILL says "Coming soon for Windows and Mac OS" IS this just a Bungie oversight? Or is there arrival at Redmond more likely to be something like Durandal's seizure by the pfhor?
Descent 1 was very, very, cool. Run it at 640x480, and cloak just before you fly out the exit tube (with cheat). The graphics are just awesome there.
If anybody has a copy of Rhapsody for Intel to give away, drop me an email.
The problem with the Marathon 2 engine is that is was over 1 year old by the time the new game came out.
Keeping the grammar nazi free of grammatical errors for less than 2 minutes.
Bungie has posted a FAQ at their site. Although most of it could be considered PR and can't be trusted, it is an interesting read. It also raises an interesting point that, if the staff doesn't like M$ they can always walk away.
I could be wrong, but I think Terminal Reality Inc was the first game company to be bought out by Microsoft, way back in 95....
Ha! nowhere near- Try subLogic (Flight Simulator) back in the mid 80's. Good example of Microsoft's technique, buy a company, kill off support for competitors, refine the hell out of it, but all 'innovation' is dead.
X: I think of unix. I think of startx. I think of Xfree86. I think that it should be running X. BUT NO!!!! Microsoft is using what would be good name for a Linux game console. What does Microsoft have to do with X? Is this box going to run an Xserver on top of DOS? I don't think so. Use Xwindows not Xbox. Maybe it is like SQL. When I say SQL people think Microsoft SQL server. They are associated with the name. What a great marketing machine they are. Now, When a kid thinks X he'll think Microsoft first, and then have to be explained exactly what X really is.
You say their pre-marathon stuff was unremarkable? Curious, have you ever played Pathways into Darkness? I'm not a game tech guru, so it might have been boring from a tech perspective; but, oh man, it had a great plot! I know that sounds kinda chintzy but was the kind of game that really drew you in. Marathon 1 and 2 were even better in this regard.
Yes and no, actually. The entire level had to be connected, but you could remove sides of the cubes. It pretty easy to have a floating cube. Even better: check out 4D and fly inside that cube.
If Halo is (and it seems like it will be) made an X-Box exclusive title, won't it be old news by the time the X-Box launches for Christmas 2001? It does look amazing, but everyone else will probably have caught up by then. It may not be entirely obsolete, but it probably won't be anything that special. Even if they don't make it exclusive to X-Box you can bet the PC/Mac version (if either exist) will be delayed until the X-Box is ready to go.
As a side note, I'm sorry to see one of the few awesome independant developers destroyed like this. They used to have such a great attitude and style, but now they'll just be part of the collective. They've lost at least one loyal customer today.
ExInferus
Yeah, YEAH!
Why isn't EA-SPORTS inventing NEW sports and making games about them!
The saddest part about all this is how Bungie thinks they can really stay the same, while owned by Microsoft... it's just like when a popular indie artist with a loyal cadre of fans signs with a major label. "Don't worry," they say, "We'll still do everything the way we always have, our Corporate Owners promised not to tell us how to do things. We'll stay true..." Of course, we all know what happens after that.
Microsoft didn't create Flight Simulator; they bought it from SubLogic, then killed the Mac version. They've made a few tweaks to it, but these days other companies like Laminar Research are way ahead of MS in flight sim technology.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
TRI is independent and is currently publishing through GOD. They were never bought by MS. Their last MS title was Monster Truck Madness 2. Since they joined GOD they've released Fly!, Fly! 2K, and Nocturne. They're currently working on a new 4x4 truck game that will be multiplatform and mulitplayer.
It doesn't wash. We're not hearing the whole story.
So, since the 'carrot' is utterly, transparently inadequate as an explanation for what's going on (Halo, the Steve Jobs feature presentation of Macworld, being seized and turned into an X-Box only title), what might there be as far as the 'stick'?
We don't have to look very far. Bungie is well known for being paranoid about distribution. Its early struggles with distributors were agonising- IIRC there's a funny rant on the subject at Bungie.com. This company, more than almost any other, was _painfully_ aware of its delicate lifeline with the distributors.
All Microsoft would have had to do was threaten to have Bungie blacklisted with ALL the distributors and Bungie would have to agree to any terms. "Don't carry Bungie or we'll pull Office". No distributor would risk offending Microsoft, no distributor would carry Bungie, Bungie would be dead- it's that simple. This is the most likely 'stick'- making it easy to understand these shocking and very obvious results.
Yes this is illegal as fuck, and exactly the behaviour MS has just been found guilty of in court. Your point?
The fact that Microsoft is running amok and trying to do as much damage as it can as fast as it can is hardly surprising. It's just a little startling how _obvious_ they're willing to be with it, knowing they can move faster than the courts.
The most interesting point is this: Bungie is pretty much a top-tier developer. If they can be _seized_ in this manner and assigned to X-Box only, no developer is safe, and no market really exists- it's just a play-market. The question people should be asking themselves at this point is: who will be next? Will Id be seized and "Doom" be made an X-Box only title?
Keeping
Another Reason that microsoft may be buying out game developers, is:
1) make sure they aren't easily able to port there games to other platforms aka Linux,so anything made by the company can only be played on Microsoft specific hardware/Software i.e Xbox or Win2000/ME. (Therefore possibly less reason for people to swap OS).
2) A lot of the companies have very talaented people in, so they could be trying to get them to work closely with the Directx team(ahem..undisclosed ahem... API's) to get a advantage over other game devolpers,or to help devlop new functionality to the API.
I personnaly think they will try to sign more game developers soon to try and help give the Xbox, a better chance of not flopping.
-
As cunning as a fox, which has just been appointed professor of cunning at Oxford University. http://www.kinlan.co
It would be truly dangerous for gamers if they stary going after the big guys like square. Especially square. Everyone knows that the FF series is one of the most popular game series in the history of electronic gaming. While it is true that Microsoft would give them more resources, we have no proof that Microsoft will leave their game development studios alone creatively. Imagine Microsoft strongly censoring the FF games because they get pressure from groups claiming that the promote satanism, etc by making main characters who're black mages, and so on.
I can only see one benefit to Microsoft buying up development studios and that is that we'll see games being released in the US before they are in Japan. However, call me paranoid, but I am still concerned about Microsoft either proactively or reactively restricting the creative liberties of its development studios.
shouldn't this story really have the Bill of Borg Icon?
it is, after all about another fine company being assimilated.
The difference between Theory and Practice is greater in Practice than in Theory.
Bungie Guy: Sure we still love all of the Mac, Playstation, and Linux people out there. We think they're just swell. I really don't think they understand one thing about all of this, though...
Now all of your pals at Bungie are Really Really Rich!
I think if they understood the vastness of The Money and how much unbridled joy It has given us, they'd settle down and let bygones be bygones.
Just remember that the XBOX is just around the corner and we've yet to ever see a console system that was truly buggy. We at Bungie think that shows a lot of promise for the future. Let's just all make up and be friends now, shall we?
LouZiffer
LouZiffer
Bungie is a funny company. Their early stuff was unremarkable (pre-Marathon), as is true of most companies. Then Marathon came along, which for all intents and purposes was a DOOM clone. Mac people *hate* this, because Marathon hit the Mac before DOOM was ported, though it was released after DOOM was out for the PC. And they're quick to point out certain features, like the ability to look up and look down). But it's still very much like DOOM, and even Jason Jones has said that they were heavily influenced by that game.
Myth was good. Bungie needed to go off in another direction and this was it. Myth II was more of the same, but it was marred by a severe installation bug that could trash your hard drive.
Since then, Oni has been a big disappointment. It was announced, the release was impending, then it disappeared for a year (very little was seen of it between E3 1999 and E3 2000). Now it's a PlayStation 2 game more than a PC game, and it looks, um, really bad. The frame rate at E3 was embarrassingly poor, and the game is looking very dated.
Halo is a funny game. The "no gameplay" trailers have gotten fanboys drooling, but the reasons why are elusive. Halo isn't particularly high poly--a barren landscape with no landmarks--and there doesn't seem to be a whole lot to shout about, except a distinctive art style (reflective black soliders running under a pink sky). The E3 trailer had all sorts of jumping between scenes that made it obvious that it wasn't actual gameplay. And still there's talk about how it's the ultimate next gen game. Puzzling.
So Bungie started by cloning the best company around, and they ended up creating the highly innovative and playable Myth, but now they've gone off and become yet another all-hype game company that can't help but disappoint. Could Messiah and Daikatana have done anything but disappoint after all that time? And Myth is on the same road.
I'm not a microsoft lover at all, but I think you should not overreact. Unlike for OS and Office applications, Microsoft has in no way a monopoly in the gaming industry (nor does any other company)
Actually they made some great games and free market competition worked in that domain. Think of M$ Flight Simulator which has set standards in flight simulating software.
Another great game (tough not really from Microsoft) is Age of Empires...well at least for me.
Okay, I admit that porting to other platforms will probably be a difficult issue, tough never forget that a great deal of software for the Mac is made by M$ (Isn't the standard browser for mac IE?)...so I wouldn't panic.
Of course...for Linux...well...
But then I probably see the world too optimistic, no?
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
Oh, *that's* easy enough. While Microsoft wants people to think that they're all about innovation, their execs know that the best way to make money is really to find someone else who does it better and make them an offer they can't refuse. Which leaves me wondering what they offered Bungie. That company is already a landmark in the gamescape thanks to revolutionary games like Marathon and Myth, and is set to do it again with Oni and Halo -- and everyone says so. Why do they *need* Microsoft?
I know its dated but I recall Blizzard being available for purchase at one point. :)
I'm sure Diablo, StarCraft & Warcraft would be nice additions to the collective. Well, I would think that anyway.
Time will tell whether or not Bungie has truly given up their heritage.
-Vel
I'm stunned. I've just been over to Halo.bungie.org and the amount of invective on the forum is amazing. If Bungie was worried about what effect this announcement would have on their loyal fans, they must be feeling pretty sick at the moment.
Two long time Bungie fan sites seem to be closed or on the verge of closing - The Mill and Marathon Story. For those not in the know, these were the two linchpin sites for Myth and Marathon fans. While the announcement on The Mill is a little overheated (read the source for the real reason) its understandable given that a lot of long time fans feel as though they have just lost a close friend.
I also worry about the possibilities of a Linux port. To my knowledge, not one MS branded game has been ported to Linux, and I believe it is now highly unlikely that a Linux version of Halo or any future game from Bungie will appear, mainly because while Bungie has a say on what versions are produced, MS holds the exclusive distribution rights. MS knows that games are one of it's strongest cards, and that many Linux users keep a Windows partition to play the games available. Hey, with Descent 3, Terminus, Quake 3 Arena, Railroad Tycoon and Sim City 3000 and Halo on Linux, I would kiss my Windows partition goodbye.
Cheers,
Toby Haynes
Anything I post is strictly my own thoughts and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the opinions of IBM.
To be fair, I haven't read it myself, but many people told me that it was in the book, although someone told me that it wasn't in the reedition.
What surprised me wasn't that it wasn't in the reedtition but that their was reedition in the first place.
"The obvious mathematical breakthrough would be development of an easy way to factor large prime numbers." Bill Gates,
(grumble... grumble) why can't ms just go away and act like they don't exist(grumble)
From the hotline chat with bungie (still in progress) Merkinjata (n: A lot of people want to know how the Microsoft anti-trust trial will affect Bungie. Any comments? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> yeroen: I don't really have an opinion on this. If the company gets divided we'll be in the non-os half. I hope that clears things up. Strait from the source.
By the way, that chat is going on at rampancy.net for those who want to check it out.
It's been going on for a while now, but I'm sure a transcript will be available eventualy.
Hey now I have a 20% coupon from bungie because my serial number for Marathon Infinity was bad. So does this mean I can get 20% off Windows 2000 server?
Impersonating Tycho from Penny Arcade since before there was a PA.
NOw.. what about a ppc version of halo? I bet they scrap it. Perhaps not, seeing as how it's done..but....
SO much for hoping for a port anywhere else.
It's fairly apparent that no one has considered that the PC game scene is shriveling up from a financial aspect. Console development makes sense, because you reach a larger userbase, and you get to work with standardized hardware instead of having to worry about all of the compatibility issues with PC hardware. It's no wonder that PC hardware which is more capable than its console counterparts never reaches the same plateaus as far as maxing out hardware.
...
For example, Playstation hardware which is capable of pushing 360,000 polygons can, with proper programming, push the system very close to its limits. On the PC side, you don't see too many games that are coming close to 15 million polygons on a GeForce 2. You probably won't ever see that happen.
Bungie is taking advantage of an opportunity to jump right into console development as a second party developer. I can understand that some people are a bit bitter that a favored PC developer is essentially giving itself to the console world, but this is really not an issue of Microsoft taking over the game industry. Every console company, Microsoft included, needs second party developers. Rumor has it that Microsoft was looking at every single top-tier developer for a second party relationship (Square-EA, Capcom, Konami) and it seems that Microsoft nabbed Bungie.
For this reason, I imagine Microsoft would not care what home computing platforms Bungie caters to, since the Windows, Mac and Linux markets aren't going to impact sales for consoles greatly (different markets altogether). It is definitely too early for anyone to be complaining about development being stifled for home computing platforms. It's the console war Microsoft is trying to enter here.
If nothing else, Bungie will simply be able to produce a better version of Halo on the Xbox, since they can simply optimize the code to use every ounce of power specifically to the hardware in the system. Anyone that wishes to argue against this can simply wait until Quake III: Arena ships for the Sega Dreamcast, and the explain how a weak console based on the PowerVR chipset will manage to run the game with network support.
I can only wonder if there would be this much complaining if Sony or Nintendo had purchased Bungie instead (they are equally restrictive with second party developers). On the other hand, looks like Halo is just one more game that Sony isn't getting
MS has the money to burn, and to them it's worth more to have Bungie not writing games for non-MS platforms than anything Bungie might ever write for them.
If this affects the development of HALO, I will personally take microsoft out, maybe I wont even buy HALO, god damn microsoft and its money.
I have to disagree. MS doing anything significant for Linux legitimates it in people's minds, and that's something MS will avoid at all costs.
It doesn't. Not correctly, anyway. Not even with the "compatibility update." You know, actually, this might be a good thing - Bungie has always been (very) long on art and short on execution.
ummm... heh. Check out ign.com/ The PS2 HD is also has an ethernet hookup so you can hook up your DSL or cable modem.
In almost every other country in the world, Bungie are plural.
Would the singular be Bungus?
:)
Scuttlemonkey is a troll
The PS2 has more raw power
Proove it :) My DC plays modern games at 60fps and can do everything your "super console" can do.
The DreamCast is old
Nope. Just maturing. Don't compare apples to oranges. I'm not buying a PS2 because of i already have DVD player and i can play every title for the PS2 that i want with my DC. The potential of the DC is only coming of age through experience and knowledge. OTH, the PS2 is coming of age by bashing its own overly hyped ego.
What does this have to do with the X-box
Nothing. The X-BOX is an X-BOX. It is a PC in disguise. It will be fast, it will be modern, it will have all the bells and whistles of a "PC" but it can't compete with my DreamCast. The XBOX nor PS2 is not a Console boys and girls.
The DreamCast isn't selling
What crackpipe have you been smoking out of? 6,000,000 units is selling.
For anyone who can make up there own mind
That is something to cherish. If you can make up your own mind, your own opinions and are a true gamer then i bet you will own an N64, a DC and a PSX and will probably upgrade as you go. You like the consoles because of the gaming experience. Its too bad that 75% of the people visiting this website have forgot what it was like to play games. They're to stuckup the ass with uptimes and polygons a second when they forget what the real experience is.
So my point being. Its good to see the console market thriving, good to see all these "badboys" coming it. But people. Gaming is the console, and Sega is the leader. You go to an arcade and chances are people are lined up at Sega releases, and chances are that will land on your DC. Now what the hell do you see at the arcade running under a PS2? X-BOX? PSX?
I'll probably buy one just so I can tinker with a stripped-down PC.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
heh...yeah.. I thought so too. For some reason this little interchange disturbs me...
"We asked Tamte if Bungie has, simply, run out of money."
Unequivocally, let me tell you no. We have enough resources to ship Oni and Halo ourselves
But later on they say:
"In the long run it's reasonable to say, 'Over time, an industry matures. Over time it's more expensive to launch a new product into a mature market, with emerging and expensive technologies like digital television and broadband. Over time it is more difficult be an independent."
So..it's not about the money...okay... but it is about not being able to survive as a small independant company. I'll admit I'm a bit slanted here, but this sounds like the mob going in and saying "Look fellas... you can either sell to us or we will drive you into the ground.. now.. which will it be"
Pardon me for playing devils advocate, but this might actually be good for the gaming community at large.
:-)
Think about it: MS-applications bought a games developer who made in-house tools to keep as much operating system specific calls out of their codebase. if you read this interview with Jason Jones, you'll see that Bungie will have complete control over which platforms they develop for. Given the studio's Mac heritage, it's highly unlikely that they will decide to drop Halo development for the Mac.
Furthermore, I'm willing to speculate that with the MS breakup pending appeals, that a linux port wouldn't be too far off either. Bungie always had a strange obsession with worldwide domination, you know
Microsoft has written Mac applications for over 10 years-- so concerns that they will suddenly drop all cross-platform work seem a bit paranoid. Sure they've chosen not to implement Access or Flight Simulator for Mac, but over the years I'd say they've given it support proportionate to market size. Yeah, we could argue all day whether their lack of support hindered Mac growth yada yada, but... whatever. So: even odds on the question of "Mac or not Mac".
The other thought as I read the comments is this: so good. Microsoft have proven time and time again that Windows is only really useful if you want to illegally monopolize a market or play games. For a really good game experience, I find it either sufficient to play a MAME port or go plunk down some tokens in an arcade-- where they have screens worth looking at and controls that make sense. IANAPornStar but IIRC going to the arcade gets me out of the house. Which is essentially a Good Thing(tm).
I do not have a signature
Duh, the first time the Halo trailer was shown was at Macworld a year ago. If Halo doesn't come out for the Mac, I bet it doesn't come out for Windows either and only runs on Xbox. That would totally be Microsoft "knifing the baby." Bungie does engines first then works on gameplay and art. The Halo engine (Mac+Win) has basically been done for many months so there can be no technical reason not to release it for Mac or Windows.
Hence they've been buying developers ( & keeping them independent), then releasing games under the "Microsoft" label: in the lame attempt to fool the world that they can do hip & edgy stuff as well as patches for Office.
I could be wrong, but I think Terminal Reality Inc was the first game company to be bought out by Microsoft, way back in 95....
Cheers,
Justin.
"My cat's breath smells like cat food." - The Tao of Ralph Wiggum.
Singular nouns go with singular verbs. Just because Taco says it doesn't make it true.
I know, but that doesn't change anything if MS tells then "You want to license Halo to Loki for Linux? No way!"
Now Microsoft is the publisher. Bungie can still ship off their titles to Loki to be published on Linux, as long as there's no clause in the MS contract that explicitly forbids this.
And that is exactly what I am fearing.
It's called "logic" and "reasoning". I'm suprised that more of the slashbots don't possess these skills, despite being the "geeks" they are.
Apparently you still lack the basic reading and analysing what you read skills. You tell me I am stupid and then gives me reasons why I am may right to fear the worse.
"The obvious mathematical breakthrough would be development of an easy way to factor large prime numbers." Bill Gates,
Microsoft keeps trying to convince everyone they have been writing innovative software for the past twenty-five years. Do they really think we believe it?
Despite their assurances, though, I just know this will be the end of Bungie's innovative game ideas and storylines. You can't spend your career in the heart of the Microsoft campus and not be infected by their mindset: "Steal other people's ideas, improve on them, distribute it more widely, and call it innovation."
I wish MS would stop buying these game companies. These companies continue making good games under the name Microsoft, making MS look good. Oh, hold on, that's what MS wants.
But I really hate the fact that all the good game companies are being bought out by MS. I wonder if the employees at Bungie are happy or sad?
Well, at least for every game company MS buys, about 3 decide to port their games to Linux. I just wish Microsoft would STOP.
bungie is a great game company. myth and myth 2 were great. oni is a good idea (although the actual engine looks a bit dated), and halo looks like it's going to rock. so bungie was bought by microsoft. Before every open-source fanatic on /. goes on ranting about how bill gates is the devil (btw, he's not: he donates billions and billions of dollars to charity every year - more money than most of us /. people will ever make or begin to fathom), really think what they will do to bungie. Probably only two things will happen: 1) everything will be ported to the x-box, not the playstation2 or anything else. 2) some of bungie's funny stuff (tons of easter eggs in myth...) won't come out anymore.
Your milage may vary.
-legolas
i've looked at love from both sides now. from win and lose, and still somehow...
Their Myth monopoly is unacceptable! Other companies should also be able to create Myth games and compatable clients. Why, if your friend has Myth, you have to buy Myth just play a network game against him. They deliberately produce incompatabilities between different version of their software, too. I bought Myth, but then people around me started buying Myth II, and I couldn't play with them until I bought Myth as well! I paid for it, but I don't have to like the stinking monopolist bastards who forced me to; I think anyone would be totally justified to make unauthorized copies of their software, if you can avoid inadvertantly purchasing it with their aggressive bundling.
But what is truly intolerable is the way they're using their Myth dominance to force their way into the Oni market! They are blatantly leveraging one monopoly into another.
And look at these hopelessly generic names: Myth, Oni. How many games are there based on a myth? Oni may be uncommon in North American games, but they are a standard feature of Japanese games. It is unacceptable for them to claim trademark rights for these generic concepts (actually, they themselves argues that "Oni" was a generic name, because there was an obscure game of the same name, but you don't see them letting us know! I bet if any of you wrote a game called "Oni", they'd sue you anyways).
HALO isn't being *ported* to the Macintosh. The reason Bungie stands out among game developers is that they develop cross-platform from the ground up. That's why it's such a seamless experience from both sides, and why neither platform looks any better than the other. Quake III was the same way; not ported, but developed; that fact alone wins over Mac users for not having to wait an extra month (or, in Blizzard's case, year) for the latest and greatest. Westlake (the major porting company) does brilliant work with things like UT, but it still has to wait for the PC code to be done. It will be truly sad when a Bungie game is filled with Direct3d, DirectPlay, Direct*, and Mark Adams et. al. have to clean that stuff out.
Good idea, except for one thing: isn't Marathon (1 and 2, anyway) open-source?
Think about it: Microsoft gets the talent, but Bungie offloads the hot games. Why doesn't it worry about Marathon? Because technically it no longer controls it.
Fire up the code mirrors, boys ('n girls)...
/Brian
...to anyone else?
M@T
'sapientia potestas est'
So I guess MS are trying to buy everything they can before the final judgement comes into effect.
..games for the as well..sigh.. *stuffing yet another rag into yet another molotov* redmond's not that far from here..
You are witnessing Microsoft innovation at work
Eternity: will that be smoking, or non-smoking? I Corinthians 6:9-10
Too bad. They were the premiere developer of Mac gaming titles. At least they got the source code for old games like Marathon out before they were bought..
[ReidNews]
This morning, Microsoft, Bungie and Take2 Interactive announce a complex deal that ends in Bungie as a wholly owned subsidiary of Microsoft, and Take2 as the owner of Oni and Myth. The deal has been in the works for months now and leaked to the Internet last week, with forums and chat boards dedicated to Bungie's games filled with debate about the accuracy of what was, until now, a rumor. It's rumor no longer: Microsoft is buying Bungie
I'm amazed that nobody (AFAICT) has mentioned the Indrema in all of this. How does this affect the chances of a Myth II (or III...) port to that (linux based) platform? Since Bungie was relatively friendly to the Linux platform, this aquisition move on the part of Micro$oft smells rotten to me. The X-box is a direct competitor to the Indrema, and I'm sure that the existing Linux based titles, including Myth, are on the top of the list for early Indrema ports(?).
I know Take2 supposedly has rights to the existing games, but does that include new ports? The software might have to be seriously reworked to fit into the Indrema platform.
Anyone have any thoughts? Info?
3:1 odds says those ports get dropped due to "insufficient demand" and Microsoft immediately issues a press release saying that it's not because of the buyout. forked-tongue - just watch, I'll bet money on this one.
>2. The audience who buys this will be either the parents of kids who
>don't give a rat's ass or older kids who don't give a rat's ass.
>3. 1) Games that will be released on the x-box before they are
>released to the general pc market. 2) Can you play those pc games
>without worrying about drivers, OS versions, DirectX, conflicts, etc?
>4. Blinding yourself to something doesn't make it go away. Just
>because it's not one of the old school giants doesn't mean it's doomed
>to failure.
Wrong. It's precisly not going to save the market for PC games because XBox games ARE PC Market Games. In case you haven't noticed, the vast majority of the audience who are or who intend to buy the Sony,Nintendo and Sega machines HAVE NO LOVE FOR PC GAMING. They don't really share the PC Gamer mindset.
Sniff, wait and see.
"The obvious mathematical breakthrough would be development of an easy way to factor large prime numbers." Bill Gates,
The Age of Empires games were made by Ensemble Studios, not internally at Microsoft.
Wherever there's a will, there's a motorway.
so which Microsoft will own this? It's a worry whichever way it falls but I'm just thinking that if Windows gets Bungie then they could conceiveably cut development to other platforms (like the mac & linux) and focus on offering windows only apps?
... which leads me to another point, how on earth are Microsoft's holdings in other companies be divided? Would companies and shares aquired by Microsoft be spilt evenly? or will one half get more of another?
Since Bungie is now Mikrosovt's, what do you guys think are the chances of Halo coming only to the X-Box as some sort of major initial selling point? Originally Bungie had promised to release Halo for the Mac OS first, and then for Windows, but Mikrosovt's primary motivation here may be acquiring Halo as a 100% X-Box release.
This is an interesting development. Bungie's produced some pretty excellent games in the past - I hate to see Mikrosovt absorb another good company into its already bloated self.
The X-Box looks pretty impressive, but with a 500 mhz G4 / Voodoo 3 2000 / 512 MB RAM combination on my desk, I'm already happily rigged with a very kick-ass little gaming machine =)
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"Cogito Eggo Sum: I think, therefore, waffle."
Bungie have also been quoted as saying that they will remain autonomous within MS, and may continue to develop titles for non-MS platform (e.g. Mac), although it remains to see how long that lasts. I suspect that Mac titles may be allowed to continue for a little while, but PlayStation 2 titles will be knocked right on the head in favour of X-Box.
Bungie does not post release dates, as company policy, I'm fairly certain. So I doubt they have posted any vaporous release dates for Halo. As far as I know they are just starting level design for Halo, so don't expect it terribly soon. I don't believe bungie has issued any press releases saying that it would be. Oni, I know nothing about.
One of the main things that seems to have gotten people drooling regarding their trailers, is the physics model. All of the no-play demos are scripted, rather than rendered videos, so they are all based on the ingame physics models - watch the details, which are pretty impressive.
--Alain
This may seem like a small potato to some however this is a classic move by Microsoft. Now they not only own the game company, they own distribution. This just took the game away from SONY and other consoles. I am asking myself, when will people realize what is going on? When Microsoft buys the Laura Croft EIDOS company? Remember the term "Killer App". It is a well-known fact that certain titles can alone inspire someone to buy one platform over another. Those who own and create such titles have been rewarded with large profits when sharing these titles not just with the console market, but also with the PC and Mac communities. Laura Croft for example is available for SONY, the PC and Macintosh. Sony's hold on the game for the console market ended recently and the SEGA Dreamcast is getting a new version of the game for their console. This is much needed for SEGA to survive. SONY is making around 40% of the company profits from the PlayStation itself, and the PlayStation II should follow suite. Sony and Microsoft have been nice together, hence the Sony Metreon in San Francisco. What happens when Microsoft starts to play in Sony's backyard? I have a real problem with Microsoft owning not just the console, but the games that go with it, as well as the distribution. Kind of like a company that would own the operating system, and the software that runs on it. Such a company would have a strong influence on the distribution aspects of the console. What is next Microsoft? Do you plan on buying up the local retailer or are you simply going to strong-arm electronic boutique and everyone else into doing exactly what you want. Maybe selling the console with a special bundle gets you a lower price, or if you don't sell certain worthless titles with killer app games you get neither. What will Microsoft do next? Personal, I don't need to wait. It is clear to me as it should be to everyone else what Microsoft's game is. Own the console, own the game company, and the distribution. I was seriously considering buying an X-BOX. Not any more. I would also say that we as a people have the biggest responsibility of all. That is to vote, and to that end we should vote, with our dollar. I will not purchase the XBOX from Microsoft. I hope everyone reading this will let Microsoft know how you feel. Microsoft has a nasty habit of keeping competitors at arms length. See how Microsoft gives us Office 2001 instead of releasing Office 2000 for the PC and Mac at the same time. I am well aware of the scam. They hope to buy us off with Mac only features to keep the holy war going strong when they are the reason the war exists in the first place. Why can't people freely choose to use a Macintosh in the office? Why, because it is never 100% compatible. Outlook is joke compared to the Microsoft version of Outlook 2000 and how it functions with Exchange servers. Now that we are no longer a threat, and 4 years have past, Microsoft is writing a compatible version. How many offices will switch to Macintosh now? Gee, I can think of ZERO. The game purchase is the same. Even if they allow the release to other platforms, it will be in the same manor that Microsoft holds Apple in. You'll get it...eventually. Not before the media has hyped the game to kingdom come and all our kids, young adults and adults have given in to purchase the game on the exclusive X-BOX. Your ability to choose is being taken away from you. One way or another you are going to be forced to use PC technology. Intel chips, etc. Microsoft and Intel want this. Even if you believe the PowerPC is better, or the SH4 is better or even the MIPS10000. It will not matter. Developers well why learn anything else? Developers should become Intel experts because that is all that will matter going forward right? Is that the world we want to live in? The court of appeals sure seam to be in someone's back pocket. Microsoft should be a little worried but doesn't show it at all. Kind of like someone has an ACE up his sleeve. Why would we believe that? After all, Microsoft only has $20,000,000,000 in cash reserves. It's not like you can buy off a judge or two with $20,000,000,000 right? Microsoft needs to be torn in two (at least). The Supreme Court needs to take action. Our legal system needs to recognize the obvious. Microsoft is doing it all over again. Just my 2 cents... Alex
You all forget that Microsoft, solely from a gamers perspective, has done some pretty kick-ass stuff (or at least put it's name on it, ex. AOE). This isn't necessarily a death knell..
BilldaCat
2. Its by MicroSoft. The audience who are supposed to be buying these things *HATE* MicroSoft. They aren't your parents or other clueless people, these are geek kids with lots of spare change who use Windows everyday and HATE IT. Why would they go buy a console by MicroSoft? They simply wont.
3. It looks like all the games are just PC *ports*. It looks to use the same arcitecture as PC games. WHY do we even want an XBox when we all OWN PCs and already own all these games?
4. It has nothing to do with Sega or Sony. Nuff said. You're already out of the console race.
I eat the flesh off the living, and I vote!
If they drop support for other platforms, it can only mean one thing.
at the very least, we can be damn sure there won't be a linux port of halo now.
Thank god Tribes 2 is looking like a much better game anyway, and that is going to be native on Linux to boot!
________
1995: Microsoft - "Resistance is futile"
I absolutely hate the trend that the game industry is taking here. As much as I hate the big Redmond, you have to admit they have released some fantastic games lately. The publisher gets all the credit, when the developer does all the work. It's the same with Hasbro Interactive. They acquire a developer and then publish the stuff as their own, when all they have bought is the creativity. The only credit can give Microsoft is in their aquisition strategy. Bungie is hot right now, so MS bought the energy. Here's to unique creativity and originally being bought by corporate power. It's been said a thousand times. But is there any way to stop it? If you owned a hot company, wouldn't you sell it to get rich? Doing so crushes the creative and independent spirit of the company, but I doubt honestly that any /.er would not sell to make a mint. Probably me included.
Have you by any chance spent any time in the "heart of the microsoft campus" or are you just parroting what everyone else tells you?
from the Myth I bungie.net days, by chance...?
"People" using "unnecessary" quotes should be "shot".
1. Like 'Playstation' is that much better?
2. People hate Windows (which is, I hazard, MS's worst product). MS hardware is good (see Intellimouse and keyboards, specifically). MS games at least have potential to be good (see AoE [both of them], Motocross Mania). As long as people don't have to put up with typical Windows crap (and hopefully the constant hardware setup will eliminate a lot of the problems), I can't see all that many non-penguins discounting the XBox purely because it's MS. The 'audience' being targetted isn't necessarily the 'geek kids with... spare change'; it's gamers, and the hardcore gamers I know all want good games, whether on the PSX, the Dolphin, the Gameboy, or a friggin' calculator watch.
3. You're complaining about games for a console that doesn't exist yet? Man, some people just can't find enough to bitch about... ;)
4. Sony had nothing to do with Sega or Nintendo, back in the day, and what did they come up with?
I think saying that the XBox can't survive because of, well, whatever reason is incredibly short-sighted and hopelessly naive. I'm not saying it's success is guaranteed; just that it's demise isn't.
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It's not the rambling I object to, so much as the mumbled incoherancies...
come on plz, bungie has to much skillz to be bought by a pos company like mircosoft next thing we know is 2 weeks down the line halo is realeased with uncomplete mapping and 65000 software bugs
i guess we can say goodbye to "Marathon" being an open source project. erg........no, its the tragic tale of spfht vs. tyrant, i bet they dump marathon
Dont let school get in the way of your education
Dont let school get in the way of your education
~Noah~
not kill off Bungie's identity. This article:_ page_912_1.html
http://www.dailyradar.com/features/game_feature
over at DailyRadar.com shows a little light at the end of the tunnel for PC/Mac gamers who liked the independent and creative Bungie.
It's only when we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything...
--Alain
Bungie Software, although not a giant in the PC market, had been making great macingtosh games for nearly ten years. They were the ideal small company - putting out great products because they were willing to make up with hard work what they couldn't do with huge budgets and large development teams. (Their first big title, Marathon, was mailed out in shrinkwrap because they didn't have enough boxes.) It's sad to see a company that made its name by Thinking Different sell out to Microsoft. I can't really blame Microsoft...after all, Halo is one of the most anticipated games around. But to see an independent, multi-platform company like Bungie even consider moving to just one platform (XBox) is tough. While there haven't been official announcements, the following is the word on Halo: "We can't confirm that it will ship for XBox, but if it doesn't we'll eat our hats." - Bungie "We can't confirm Mac or PC for Halo." - Bungie Not exactly equal footing...
Back when we had an old LC 640, myself and a friend used to spend many an afternoon playing Marathon. He would use the move keys, and I would shoot, and together, over about a month, we solved the marvellous puzzles, marvelled over the splendour of the visuals, and always shuddered when we walked around the corner in a sph't. (that was an alien, for those non-mac heads).
We were only 14, and already we hated Microsoft. We had a big rivalry - all our friends had PCs, and we had Macs. The school used macs, so we were technically superior when it came to mucking around on the computers at school, but the PC revolution was marching on and the Apple that we knew and loved was going out of fashion.
Now I'm 19, I've moved on, and been forced to buy a PC for university. About a year ago, I discovered Linux, and now I'm a full time user. I even help out for a web site in Australia, www.linuxtoday.com.au. I hate nothing more than the way Microsoft takes over my computer and am looking eagerly towards linux game ports!
What I'm really trying to say, is that I used to idolise Bungie, both for the outstanding games that they develop and their multi-platform attitude. It fills me with grief to find that the company who developed Marathon, the most atmospheric game of all time, and the company who was developing the game that I was looking forward to the most, has now been bought by Microsoft.
Goodbye Cruel World!! The last straw on the camel's back has been broken. I'm deleting my window partition once and for all. Viva Linux!!!!!!!!!
Digital Philosopher. Looking for work.
Man, Bungie was the only game developer I actually checked in with to see how their releases were comming. Their titles were always technically stunning and the gameplay was incredible... Their loss will be missed, since Microshaft doesn't have the tendency to just buy a company and let it operate like nothing happened.
snif.
This really blows. Halo looked promising from the press releases I've read and was actually going to go buy the game, but as Microshaft now got a hold of it, I'm sure their wonderful software techs will want a add a few constructive bits of code here and there to slim things up a bit and generally just hose the whole damn thing up with their wonderful peicemeal Microshaft AI. And lets not forget the beautiful prospect of having IE 5.5 bundled nicely in there just in case we backwards folk need a web browser too. GAH!! and that's only if it sees release on a PC platform. Chances are they'll stay the release from the PC market for a year after their initial X-Box release. Which means I have to wait even longer. Oh well... guess Tribes 2 will have to do...
Bungie's Letter to Fans
I've bought bungie games forever, enjoyed everyone, and as a mac user, been proud of the fact that the best game company in the world started on the mac, and never forgot about mac users as they broke into the Wintel world. Myth is the funnest (yup, funnest) game I've every played. period. it's netplay is way better than anything else out there. nothing like that the last wight marching up the hill as time run out in koth. hehe
Here's to hoping bungie is able to remain creatiivly independent. lol
-res
In the letter at Bungie.com, ONI is explicitly promised promised for the Mac...
And HALO is explicitly NOT promised for any platform. Given the introduction and Demo of HALO at MACWORLD NY last year and the endless praise heaped on Bungie by Steve Jobs, I think this is a very bad sign
I am a Mac user and I am PISSED!
Oh, okay...moderate me down (-1,Ignorance) ;-)
To be honest, I played M$-FS version 3 a long time ago... (Was SubLogic bought in those days?) I only saw the (98?) version on a friends computer, looked pretty nice tough.
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
This may be rhetorical; I'm sure the Bungie boys are being leaned on heavily by the MS brass to keep their mouths shut. However, in this interview on Blue's News, Doug Zartman says this about PC and Mac versions of HALO:
Why, then, does the HALO page at http://halo.bungie.com still say "Coming soon for Windows and Mac OS"?
Doesn't Zartman really mean "We were planning to do Mac and Windows versions of HALO, but that decision is now being revisited"?
TomatoMan
-- http://frobnosticate.com
who is the idiot ? Bill ?No,he is doing his work to keep all out. Bungie ?No,it's only there for the money. Steve?Yes,X-box is a copied & pasted Apple's Pippin and to lose the best (if not the only) game developer for Mac is simply stupid. Apple has enought cash to do things like that.
:_(
Hello?
*cricket chirp*
Seriously though, with the breakup plans forged (Bungie pun) together by DOJ, how does the X-Box fit into this plan? I mean, who gets the hardware tech, who gets the OS tech?
I hope that the rumor that Microsoft will only release Halo for X-Box stays that, a rumor. Or a 'Myth', if you like... *groan*
If they don't release a Mac version, I bet Steve will have something to say about that, since Bungie announced the game during one of his keynote speeches.
--
Computers are useless: they can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
Oh, they probably offered the usual choice. "Either you take this money and become part of Microsoft or we will make sure no title you ever produce will ever work on Windows again. Accidents happen you know, and it would be so tragic if your sequence of API calls happen to make DirectX go Boom.".
Assuming you're not a troll..
1. And 'linux' is any better?
2. The audience who buys this will be either the parents of kids who don't give a rat's ass or older kids who don't give a rat's ass.
3. 1) Games that will be released on the x-box before they are released to the general pc market. 2) Can you play those pc games without worrying about drivers, OS versions, DirectX, conflicts, etc?
4. Blinding yourself to something doesn't make it go away. Just because it's not one of the old school giants doesn't mean it's doomed to failure.
Wow, I try not to overstate my feelings, but this really is devistating. Why wasn't I told earlier about this? I have loved and supported Bungie from the Pathways Into Darkness days on the pre-PowerPC Macintoshes (trying to run it on my 68020 Mac II - worked pretty well but you had to run in a 1/4 sized window on my 13" 640 X 480 screen). I was skeptical when they entered into the PC Market but I figured - hey, whatever you have to do to stay afloat.... and now look what happened...
www.jackasscritics.com
Buying companies is cheaper than either contracting with them or developing your own team in-house.
Successful companies have both experts in the field and really smart, motivated people. They also have a proven ability to work together.
It's insanely expensive for a single company to try and develop the same division on their own. Remember that for every success there are probably 1000 failures.
All large corporations buy smaller successful companies that have developed interesting technologies. Microsoft just seems to get all the (bad) publicity.
Half of it leaving
Takes others down as it falls
Penguin Anyone?
Don't forget, never throw dead chipmunks at police officers.
Well, what I thought could only be a rumor calculated to maximally piss off Bungie fans turns out to be true.
I'm grateful to Bungie for a great run of fun games, and I don't at all begrudge them the opportunity to strike it rich after all their hard work, but anyone who thinks this isn't the end of the line is delusional. They are not Bungie anymore, so we won't be seeing any Bungie games anymore, period.
Our longtime Marathon group (every Friday night for almost 4 years, see here) is already in the process of moving over to Quake 3. We were getting tired of waiting for Halo, though we still look forward to Oni.
As for X-box, well it's like this: between us we have Playstations, Nintendo, Dreamcast etc. None of us plays them much except for exceptional games like Gran Turismo or Tekken 3. Games like Soul Caliber--great eyecandy in a dull game--are the norm in my experience, so why waste money on another console? If Halo turns out to be of superb quality I might be tempted; otherwise it's much simpler, funner, flexible and fragalicious to keep using our pc's. Bungie pioneered transparently multiplatform games, so console-only would be a large, painfully ironic step backward.
And personally, I think I'd be nauseous if I ever saw a Halo by Microsoft splash screen. Just too much cognitive dissonance going on there.
Some people have put up a site devoted to the 'sellout' of Bungie. It has fond memories, stories, etc. by people who were 'touched' by the "old" Bungie - and don't want to be touched by Microsoft.
http://www.bungiesellout.org/
Here is an excerpt from Noah Daniels "A Requiem for Bungie":
" I remember a company whose employees wore tags to Macworld proclaiming that they'd just designed the box, so that people wouldn't blame them for Marathon being delayed...I, for one, will not buy a Microsoft title, and I expect many of Bungie's most hardcore fans won't either. I do hope that if Microsoft releases a Mac version of Halo, and it flops, they realize that it's not because the Mac game market isn't worthwhile, but rather that it's because Mac gamers hate Microsoft."
Wouldn't it be nice if Microsoft bought out Bungie for the soul purpose of having a company from which they could learn how to program specifically for the Linux gaming market. Hhaha..what was I thinking right? Man, this is so sad...I wonder when M$ is going to buy Slashdot?
:P
Hasues
futang futang!
I'm pretty bummed out by this. And I just don't get it.
Does anyone want to organize a Marathon bonfire for MacWorld NY? It would be a nice friendly way to send a message to the new owners... :-p
I'm obviously not going to buy this game anymore.
:)
This is sad... The game looks so damn good...
Blah
Anyone know of a equally or better looking game?
Why Bungie why?!
Yes, The Soul, was but a simple creature who couldn't answer simple questions like "When will Oni be released?" and "What's the sound of a million Bobs screaming?", but it never whined about its lowly station in life as your tech support. Why send it to a far worse place, like Microsoft tech support?
George Lee
Why does microsoft continue to buy companies, someone should explain the benifits of hiring and paying companies, rather than absorbing and destroying them.
Surely Microsoft already has it's own gaming department, why buy a dynamic succesfull inventive company just to integrate it with the bogged down, corporate coders of microsoft.
And another thing, if the programmers of Bungie have been bought out and given near garanteed job security, why the hell would they bother to make any more good games. The chance of the company failing or succeeding on the next project is what makes the smaller companies make such good games.
Want an example, what about the massive EA-sports, what the hell original games have they created recently??? Just the same old "New Improved Fifa", all they seem to do is update the player names for the latest tournament.
Rant over
I have been really looking forward to HALO. Bungie seemed like a group who seriously took their fans opinions to heart. If they decide to release HALO only for the XBox, I'll feel seriously betrayed. Bungie has had a very die hard following of Mac and PC users ever since HALO has been announced and if Bungie suffers for ditching those people in order to get more `say' on how the XBox is created, then so be it.
Oh well, there are other games coming out. I'm sure someone can fill Bungies shoes in the PC/Mac arena.
Bad Mojo
Bad Mojo
"If you can't win by reason, go for volume." -- Calvin