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Report On The Texas Censorware Bill
www.sorehands.com writes that yesterday, "in Texas, the Committee on Business and Industry heard testimony on HB1295. HB1295 is a bill which, if passed, would require PC sellers in Texas to include censorware on the machines they sell.
Under this bill, if a "personal computer" incudes an operating system, the manufacturer would be required to provide fitering software. There are no exceptions for personal computers used for business, or for computers operating systems for which there is no censorware.
This bill was prompted by SPAM to the author's, Garcia, AOL account popping up porn before being caught by the AOL parental controls. Garcia also said that downloading and installing the software over the net is too difficult for anyone over 30 years old to install. The committee seemed leary of the bill given that Texas B & C Code Sec 35.101 et seq requires that ISPs provide links to censorware." This lowers Texas on the list of "states to move to" when my lease runs out. Update: 03/21 06:10 PM by T : Jamie points to this earlier post at censorware.net as well.
2000-03-21
No girl as pretty as she is has ever looked at me like I see girls in the
movies or whatever look at the guys they like. I think she's as pretty as
the girls in the movies, but I'm not as attractive as the guys they're
in love with.
Rather than collect pathetic half-baked imitations of the looks that
attractive men get, I would give up ever being looked at by an attractive
girl again.
Any looks I do get are painful to me. They are a rare disruptive event,
invariably leading to periods of deep depression as soon as I realize yet
again that my hopes are fucked.
Fucked because: the only reason she even flirts with me is to maintain
some semblance of consistency in her universe, where people like me don't
exist because our lives are too horrible to contemplate; so instead of
coming to grips with reality (which is: I am too ugly and not cool enough
to attract the type of woman I desire, i.e., her) she pretends I'm attractive
enough (on those relatively infrequent occasions she happens to become aware
of my existence for whatever reason - we pass in the hall, for example), she
lies rather than be forced to think about a world where pathetic frustrated
weak losers like me exist.
So she looks at me or talks to me briefly, acting as if (pretending to
herself and to me) I'm an equal.
But her looks are not real: they end too quickly, they are tense with
doubt she cannot mask. (So it seems to me at any rate.)
She moves quickly on, and won't think about me till the next time chance
sends me across her path.
No I am not one to inspire confidence.
If I were her, I would not be attracted to me, either.
If only she could broadcast what she's looking for, in XML format, then some
intermediary could match her requirements and characteristics with mine. Then
we would know with certainty if we were totally wrong for each other, or
maybe had a chance.
Texas announced that all Postal delivery personal must read each piece of mail in order that un-wanted mail not reach a persons mailbox. This was brought about when GW Bush was visiting his ranch and received mail from the DNC requisting money to defet the Republicians.
Just out of curiosity, what censorware company do you hold stock in?
The trolls have always been Texans. The whole Texas war of independence thing was just a double troll, first on the Mexicans, but more importantly, the new republic of Texas presented a problem to the other United States, because of course they wanted to admitt the new territory, but then the balence of slave and free states in the Senate would be broken, so we sat back and enjoyed the controversy for 10 years. JSM never trolled like that. The slavery thing was also a troll (and never really happened, by the way). We were kind of off to the side during the Civil War, mostly we just sat back and LOL'd.
.ever wonder why it had to happen in the most remote place on earth ?)
GW is also a troll of course, but not one of the good ones -- that's why he got expelled to DC. On the way he did this whole Florida thing which raised his reputation back up to the point where we let him visit now and again. He's kind of on probation now, like Vladinator and Momocrove -- but the presidency is great trolling opertunity (the whole bully pulpit thing is ripe for abuse, see LBJ and the Vietnam war he started) so I think he has ample oportunity to redeem himslef. But he's not doing good so far. The faith-based social funding is too weak and overdone -- drilling oil in the homes of Bambi-eyed caribous was a good try, but we've beat the oil thing to death since Exxon Valdez (Do you know anyone who actually SAW the oil slick ? Didn't think so . .
Texas trolling has gone down in quality a bit since the days of fake lynchings and occasional invasions of Mexico, but we still have the old standby of executing a retarded and innocent person, that always brings 'em out. And you guys think posting a pro-Microsoft position to slashdot and getting a dozen replies is good. HA. Our trolls are bitten by real live protesters, buddy. We get TEARS. We also get cute northeastern college chicks who come down here to protest, and most of them are real easy if you have some pot, or are black, but I digress.
It really should be obvious to everyone, but the most obvious trolls are always the best. The fact is, we just like being in the news, especially if the coverage is enraged or horrified or otherwise emotive. You think we really burned down a small city of children in that Waco thing ? No way. David Koresh just went under ground, and has recently been posting as OlympicSponsor. Those guys in west texas who did the whole thing with taking over the fire station and declaring Texas was really still independent -- well, that was just a re-hash of the original troll, and a kind of pathetic one since most of the coverage wasn't really taking it seriously, so we through them in jail for not living up to standards.
When our trolls are discovered, we use the newly discovered information relevations as a kind of meta-troll, just to eke out a bit of secondary enjoyment. Take the recent coverage of theories that the alamo wasn't the heroic battle it was proclaimed -- first we fake a battle, then we troll with news the battle was fake. It's kind of like maintaining all your old dry wells. It may look totally dry and played out now, but if you cap it off and come back in five or ten years, more oil has seeped out and you can squeeze it for half a barrel a day for a while.
The future of Texas trolling looks bleak at the moment, but I have faith. Too many bland people moving into the state, fucking Yanks and Calis -- some execellent competition from those school shootings (just giving credit where due). I think we should work the Gun thing a bit, GW didn't really milk his concealed carry law for all it is worth. I think a law REQUIRING chicks who wear miniskirts to arm themselves against rape would give Chris Matthews and O'Reilly and Molly Ivins something to squawk about. The problem with executing innocent people is that you run out after a while, most of the retarded babies left in Texas are actually guilty, what fun is that ?
If it weren't so goddamn hot down here, maybe we could get some baby seals on the Gulf coast and spray them with radioactive oil. I've always envied maritime canada for doing the whole Brigette whats-that-french-whores-name thing. But most animals down here have horns or scales and are pointy and evil looking, no good cuddly specimans, so we have to deal with humans when we club things to death.
But I have faith in our ability to attract the ire and sick fascination of the rest of the world. Hell, I'm even somewhat goddamned patriotic about it, even though the country I'm patriotic about is a complete invention. Heh.
Maybe being a competent legislator is too difficult for anyone over 30 years old.
- A.P.
--
* CmdrTaco is an idiot.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
If cost was the only concern then I'd have agreed with you. But there's also the desire to not help support those I disagree with. I don't really care about the extra cost of Windows I won't use on a PC, nor do I care about the cost of preinstalled censorware. What I DO care about is that I realize that when consumers have no choice but to buy a company's product, by law, then that company has no accountability at all. (Even worse than a government buerocracy.) In a capitalist system, you vote with your wallet. Forcing you to buy from Microsoft is forcing you to "vote" for Microsoft. Forcing you to buy censorware is forcing you to "vote" in favor of censorware.
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
Under this law, I wouldn't be able to because filtering software doesn't exist for Linux.
Nah, I doubt they'd go that far. Knowing the clowns in the state legislature here, they'll probably just make you buy Windows censorware anyway. Logic is not their strong suit.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
I'm certainly not sweating it.
(But I'll be writing my state rep and state senator, just for good measure.)
Don Negro
Don Negro
Perl 6 will give you the big knob. -- Larry Wall
Lynx + a script for filtering out naughty words and content.
/tmp. Or tell anybody investigating that it's installed to /dev/null. They'll never know the difference.
That's easy enough to include on a Linux computer. And nobody said that it has to be enabled by default. Just have the script thrown in
Inconceivable!
Censoring has to happen at the source of the material, before it has a chance for rebroadcast in any medium. If, for example, /. installed something that basically prevented the display of any messages containing "foobar" in them, dispite the context, that's censoring. Because it is censored, only those at the source have access to it, and therefore whatever what blocked will never see the light of day.
Filtering happens at any point along the broadcasting line, after the source sent it out. *You* may not be able to see or read it, but it does not mean that information is not available elsewhere and that others can view it. *You* might have to jump through a lot of hoops (time, financal, patience) to see that information, but it certainly available. And that's exactly what filterware does. Just because some corp has decided that some sites will be on their 'hitlist' and be blocked for no good reason, does not mean those sites are inaccessable anywhere else.
Now, mind you, it's a slippery slope from filtering to censoring, as I've stated before. CIPA is close to going down that, but since it mearly ties getting federal dollars to install this, and not a requirement punishable by law, it's not censoring, yet. But change a few words, and it could easily be a chilling censorship issue, which is why ACLU and the other groups are chasing after it.
But as in the TX case, the only requirement is that the computers have to have filterware available and possibly installed. Save for the problems with OSes that have no filterware available (though I wonder if an appropriate junkbuster blockfile would meet their requirements), there's no real problems with this law assuming that the end cost to the consumers is negliable. (Going off a different post here, an additional $10 on a computer is not going to be a burden, compared to the MS 'tax'). An adult without children is free to remove it, and those with children can be a bit more secure that their family PC is filtering. But it should be strongly educated to the TX population if this bill passes that filterware is not a placebo for monitoring your children's activities on the internet; it only helps with such.
"Pinky, you've left the lens cap of your mind on again." - P&TB
"I can see my house from here!" - ST:
But instead of forcing OEMs to install this on computers, why not simply have the gov't subsidize free copies on CD Roms that come with the computer, making sure that the installation instructions are as simply as "follow on screen instructions"? Yes, if you assume that there's about 10 million computers in TX, that means that it would be $300-$500 million in software costs, but I betcha that you could easily persuade the filterware companies to take a bulk sum per year, say, $50-$100 million, for an unlimited 'state' licence.
I don't think there's a problem in trying to enable any parent to have a easy way to include filtering software on a family PC, and if you put that cost into the cost of a computer or for free, and include software with the computer, all the better. But I do agree you need to distiquish between corporate sales and personal or educational sales, and it should not be preinstalled unless the person requests for it to be.
"Pinky, you've left the lens cap of your mind on again." - P&TB
"I can see my house from here!" - ST:
Folks who live in texas may want to start writing letters now.
If you believe you can damage, believe you can fix
Erlang Developer and podcaster
according to the statement in the headline (no i didn't read the article. shame on me...) this only applies to sellers in texas. so this would suck for little vendors in TX, but it would have no affect on the little vendors in other states. also, i would imagine this bill would affect all computers manufactured by TX companies, not just machines for sale to texans. therefore, this measure would seriously hurt dell's business among clued consumers in other states.
in all reality this bill is bad for dell, because it puts extra restrictions on them that do not apply to the vast majority of dell's smaller competitors, and may help these smaller competitor to step out of dell's shadow, at least outside of the TX marketplace.
If I don't put anything here, will anyone recognize me anymore?
How old is this rep anyway? 30 must be a distant memory for him - or else his mind really DID go at 30.
Me, I'm 26 and don't expect my mind to be THAT far gone in four years. Besides, aren't people 30 and over the ones for whom censorware should be optional anyway? "We must protect the adults..."
~ radiographite: art by john shepard
To which the guy would probably reply: "You mean there are operating systems other than Windows?"
OK, this is a hilarious concept all around: censorware on the Gameboy Advance. Censorware on cellphones. Censorware in cars. After all, they're all computers that run OSes. You and I know this is ridiculous, but is there a safety valve in the bill to prevent precisely this scenario?
Given that it was drafted by a drunk Texan who admits he isn't smart enough to install censorware, somehow I doubt he has the tech savvy to think of these questions.
~ radiographite: art by john shepard
Hell, the bill states that it STILL has to be provided, even if there is NO OS INSTALLED - that it has to be compatible with "at least one" OS that CAN be installed on the computer. I wonder exactly how much hardware you can sell before you have to include a box of censorware...
I smell money somewhere - probably coming from a TX based censorware company...
Holy dogshit! Texas! Only steers and queers come from Texas, Private Cowboy! And you don't look much like a steer to me, so that kinda narrows it down!
Hey mods, this guy has it right on. Strip some points from its parent and give 'em here!
Fascism, created by Benito Mussolini, is an ideological system that glorifies militarism and violence and attempts to revive the glory and universal power of the ancient Roman Empire. It is a subset of the set of systems referred to by the general term, "authoritarian," which refers to any system wherein power is highly concentrated in a ruling party (whether an individual or a larger group).
The appropriate term is authoritarian--not fascist.
While I'm appalled that some nitwit would attempt to mandate censorware, I'm kind of amused that the Spam-arseholes may have messed in their nests enough that they can't live there (in Texas, at least) any more.
--
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
Buy your new PC with Linux installed (zero price) and Junkbuster installed (easily configured to block material with certain characteristics.)
Thus the law is complied with, you get no spam emails or banner ads, and you get a cheaper computer.
Damn I'm good. (setting myself up here..
~Cederic
Yeah, and not just junkbusters is available, there are other, similar products and services out there.
Also, before reading your post, I thought of procmail which could be used to filter emails and throw away and that contain naughty words.
Also, I believe some proxy software can be used to block access to objectionable sites, and of course any decent free OS comes with firewalling software.
No, there's plenty of "filterware" for free operating systems.
Just be sure to wear the gold uniform when you beam down -- you know what happens when you wear the red one.
They only meet for 3 months every two years. I'm not too worried that the Legislature is out of the reach of the masses.
Don't knock the Lege, it's one of the great sources of entertainment every other year here in Austin. If anyone wants me to go sit in on one of these stupid hearings, I'd be glad to since I was recently laid off by the lovely tech industry.
I'm pretty sure most car, microwave, VCR, etc embedded computers don't count as 'presonal computers' under the law...but I bet the TiVo does, your PDA (Which half the time isn't even able to surf the net, so censorware is really stupid for it.) does, and the kiosk at the local grocery store that sells custom labels does...
-David T. C.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
You know, a dozen people really isn't that impressive. You can probably find a dozen people in any randomly picked 25 square miles that believe the earth is flat and that the round earth 'theory' is a government plot, and Texas is a lot bigger then 25 quare miles. You can probably find a dozen people in Texas with literally any belief you can think of.
-David T. C.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
This lowers Texas on the list of "states to move to" when my lease runs out.
Oh, please. They have an idiot in the state legislature. Are you going to exclude from consideration every state that has at least one idiot in their legislature?
If so, you're going to be living in Sealand.
-
That $2 figure is something you came up with. There is no guarantee the cost of the software won't be higher. What about a non-optional subscription fee for the filtering database at, say, $50 a year?
Have you at all considered that people want to decide on software to use and install themselves? What if it's not only a $2 "censorware" package (which conveniently filters away articles complaining about how unreliable the software is)? What if they also installed Microsoft Money for an added $10 (don't want it? Uninstall!), Motocross Madness for $12 (don't want it? Uninstall!), etc. until that $2,000 PC turns into a $3,000 computer crammed with non-optional software?
And I haven't even mentioned yet that the filtering software isn't targeted at well-paid 'nerds in the software industry', but a Joe "A.O.helL." Schmoe, shooting your "argument" in the foot. (It bleeds! It dies! Carpet.)
The funny thing is that the law doesn't seem to specify what it is that the "filtering" software needs to censor.
/etc/hosts
For instance, here is a possible piece of filtering software for Linux:
#!/bin/ksh
echo "127.0.0.1 www.capitol.state.tx.us" >>
This filter, when installed, will prevent a linux user from accessing certain noxious internet content. It appears to fully satisfy the criteria of the proposed law.
I can see the headlines now. As NASA purchases more sparcs, HPs, and Linux PCs, now preinstalled with Bloatware's latest TapeYourMouthShut Censorware(tm) product for their respective platforms, missions are disrupted, perahps even scrubbed, or worse, as the poorly written, closed source software memory leaks all over the system, bringing it to its (still operational, but just barely) knees. Calculations which once to microseconds now lag for tens of seconds, orbits and maneuvers are started too late or missed altogether, etc. etc. Until the computer handling communications signalling gets so out of sync that communications are lost, or rerouted to some other locale with less, shall we say, encumbered equipment (such as Russia or Edwards)
All so some idiot 30year plus legislature can go a few more years without bending a single brain cell to obtain basic computer literacy.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
Especially now that the national level is headed by a "Texas politician". I'm allowed to complain since I'm from Texas. Does anyone know which district Mr. Garcia represents? (No I haven't read the bill yet or read further here. But I do plan on making a couple of phone calls in a minute.)
This is also a very unusual piece of legislation given that both Compaq and Dell have their HQs here. Note that both of these two provide systems that are sold with non-Redmond based OSes, and it would probably be in their best interests to lobby against the passage for this bill (yes, even given the comfortable position each of these have with MS.) Being able to sell 50,000 units a month with only MS vs. 60,000 units a month equates to profits lost by the passage of this bill. With Texas being as business friendly as you can get under the current federal requirements (voluntary EPA cooperation, anyone?), it'd be a real shock to see anything short of a grassroots movement pass this thing. I haven't seen any in the works, so I guess we'll see.
ALL HAIL BRAK!!!
Umm... Sun doesn't sell "personal computers". Read the bill before you bitch. Call your representative if you live in Texas.
ALL HAIL BRAK!!!
Let's see, we have this product that noone wants because it sucks. Let's see if we can have a law passed to force it down people throats.
Thanks Bush, for giving us a nice example of how our country is going to be screwed during the next 4 years. Texas = the perfect example that Georgie Bush is going to leave our country.
what's next, a law passed that microsoft must be the only OS sold in texas?
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
(Optional additional penalty for really dumb examples of such legislation: a boot to the head.)
It's painfully easy for Dell, Compaq, etc. to negotiate OEM licenses with Mattel, et al., to bundle a censorware product on their PCs at an oh-so-cheap price. Meanwhile, all of the little PC vendors in places like Beltline in Carrollton and N. Central Expwy. in Richardson would have to pay substantially higher prices for the censorware, driving up the prices of their PCs, and making the mass-produced hardware more competetive.
Don't be surprised if the AOL story that Garcia cited is nothing more than a red herring, and he's just shilling for Compaq (or maybe Dell, but it is less likely).
MOO;IANAL.
MOO;IANAL.
There used to be a picture linked here.
This lowers Texas on the list of "states to move to" when my lease runs out.
Texas elected George W. Bush governor twice, and they're still on your list?
s/\bfuck\b/ f---/
etc.
That would be a "Internet filter" thus killing several birds with one stone. Cross-platform open source, user configerable, "internet filter".
Grey (Chris Lusena)
The proposed law requires that censoware be included even if there is no OS. You'll pay for it even if you don't want it...
Bless you son...
.05% is fair because they pay more taxes. Estate taxes are bad.
Now, Everyone Repeat after me:
Poor people are poor because they want to be poor.
Children do not deserve a quality education if they can't afford it.
A $500 tax cut for the average American is generous. A $40,000 tax cut for the upper
Oil is good. Fossil fuel dependency is good. the more oil we have access to, the more gooder the good is. Exploring alternative energy sources and encouraging efficiency is bad.
Government funded research is bad. Social programs are bad. Better weapons technology is good.
The middle class is thriving. The middle class has a higher standard of living than 10 years ago. There is a larger and more vibrant middle class today than ever before in our country's history.
Cheap foreign labor is good for America.
Do you want fried with that?
xoxo
-freq
"Tension is the great integrity" -- R. Buckminster Fuller
1) You begin by building a piece of software that works at blocking a certain set of benchmark sites (and you build the list of benchmarks). The benchmark sites are compiled by a group of college students you pay to surf pr0n all day
2) You hype up the products abilities (based on those benchmarks), and when people find holes you just patch those few holes you can and say you are working on improving it. No need for perfection here because nobody expects it.
3) You get state legislatures and the federal government to mandate addition of censorware to computers. This gives you an automatic federally enforced income.
You get to develop a shoddy product, surf pr0n, and you get the government to pay for the whole damn thing. Wow, I think we've found socialist nirvana!
---
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
Who sells software for $2? $50 at the very least.
The avrage tech dosn't need this software. afford or not your asking him to pay $50 for someone else stupdity.
The avrage user dosn't need this. Most people can install software. The whole premis of this law is to help those who can't.
The avrage user dosn't have $50 (or even $2 in todays economy where people are forgoing lunch to save money) to thow away on stupid software.
The avrage tech is also out of work right now. A lot of tech companys are letting go of people so finding a tech job isn't easy. That last weeks paycheck has to last for the next few years while techs look for work.
It's not $2 on a $2K purchase....
It's $50 on a $300 purchase....
Yes this means your TiVo, Aibo, CyberFridge and Axis cam will need e-mail filtering software.
Or in better prospective...
Yes it will be $2 on a $2k purchase... Becouse after all.. it's not that hard to make filtering software for the dignostics computer on your car.
I don't actually exist.
True Linux is a multiuser os...
This dosn't exclude it from "personal"
A Linux system can be used as a personal computer just fine and this is all that is needed.
A note of symantics...
Unless they clarify... this could easly refer to any WinTel type box.
Rember the term "Personal Computer" was originally coinned not to refer to a class of computers but to IBMs product... and later to all computers based on it. WinTel boxes...
This is a perficly valid term today and as such a law using this term could effectively ban Linux on the PC.
I don't actually exist.
First. Means consummers (reguardless of user) will be paying for more software.
Second. This will eliminate existing Linux preinstalled machines. BSD makes some money by selling BSD preinstalled machines. Not anymore...
Sun will be forced to create and install filter software for computers that will never need it.
Third. EA and IBM have perfected techniques to eliminate software from a given operating system or computer platform.
Any company with enough money could crush compeating operating systems by just eliminating filter software.
[Yes I am refering to Microsoft here but realisticly speaking VA Linux could do this as well... There is no monopoly on this...]
Forth and final: The whole basis of this law is some politician dosn't know how to use his computer.
What an outragously stupid reason for a law.
I don't actually exist.
What a stupid reason to pass a law.
He can not download and install software. I guess he is using Linux becouse he sure is hell isn't using Windows.
Hay someone e-mail this idiot some censorware and give it the title "I love u" I mean gezz...
Think about this. What is an e-mail virus? It's a program that tricks users into installing the virus without knowing that they are doing it.
So as a public service to morons everywhere...
Felinoids "How to install software"
On Windows: Click on the link. Let it download. When a window pops up click on the box saying "run after downloading".
A few moments later the software will install itself.
On MacOs: Download software. decompress using unstuffit or something along those lines (I don't use Macs) and run the stupid installer.
On Linux/Unix: Download. Decompress using tar -zxf filename. Read the "INSTALL" file. Compile and install according to that file.
Debian: Use getapt (I don't use Debian so for more info type on the command line "man getapt")
I'm skipping around a bit on Linux and Unix and Mac but you get the idea.
I heard a wonderful term that fits people who can not install censorware themselfs...
12 o clock flashers....
The VCR clock is flashing 12 o clock all the time...
Not everyone over 30 is a 12 o clock flasher... most people over 30 can set VCR clocks... and install software.
I sure hope this guy dosn't take the same approch to driving or governing that he takes tword using a computer.
I don't actually exist.
1. Said of a computer system with excessive or annoying security barriers, usage limits, or access policies. The implication is that said policies are preventing hackers from getting interesting work done. The variant "fascistic" seems to have been preferred at MIT, possibly by analogy with "touristic" (see tourist).
The Free On-line Dictionary of Computing, 1993-2000 Denis Howe
or
fascism 2. Oppressive, dictatorial control.
dictionary.com
authoritarian
1. Characterized by or favoring absolute obedience to authority, as against individual freedom: an authoritarian regime.
dictionary.com
Seems like they both work to me. Go pick a different nit
--
So I declare that the rep is both naive and fascist were before I only thought he was fascist.
--
Remember, in legal terms "effective" doesn't mean what it means in the "real world". Look at the DMCA and how its "effective" copyright controls
Actually, "effectively" as used in the DMCA does not mean, "is good at." "Effectively" in the DMCA means "has the effect of."
--
Longtime readers may be aware that I have little to no problems with censorware. I believe that people should be able to do what everythey want on the net so long as they don't interfer with anyone elses right to do the same, and that they do so on their own machine. That terminal in the public library isn't mine, so I don't get to make the rules about what software can or cannot be installed.
But ignore all of that. This Texas bill has nothing whatsoever to do with censorware. It has everything to do with some buttinski politician exploring the seemingly limitless avenues personal political power. The bill could be mandating the installation of Linux on PCs, the use of asphalt shingles on doghouses, or flow limiters in toilets, but it would be every bit as evil.
I can understand why Garcia is ticked off that some unsolicited porn popped up on his monitor. But what I don't understand is why the wrath is targeted at the innocent retailer and consumer rather than being targeted at the actual culprit. It's time to start filing criminal charges at the pornspammers instead of imprisoning their victims.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
Hosts.deny is only for software which uses tcpwrappers, which is only meant for servers. Not to mention the terrible access-times a big hosts.deny file would give due to the fact that it's pretty loosly parsed plain-text...
Why not have a GPL'd censorware that has an open, user-modifiable block-list? (Why am I asking all these questions?)
Could a simple firewall blocking all documents that had one of the seven dirty words(tm) in them, classify as censorware?
I believe a free, easy to uninstall alternative censorware would really be adopted by all the independent retailers.
I still hope this doesn't get thru.
Karma: Good! Napster: Baad!
So, he's pissed off because his filtering software didn't work, and his solution is to require filtering software? WHAT???
-"I talked to God and here's the deal/ He said to floss between each meal" -- Uninvited
Becuase, now you're paying the Windows Tax AND the Censorware Tax on top of that. Just what we all needed, huh?
"As OPPOSED", not "As supposed"...
"It's overkill, of course. But you can never have too much overkill." - Anonymous Slashdot Coward
Actually, this wouldn't get very far in Utah.
"We don't sell 'personal computers'. We sell 'workstations'."
--
Pretend there is some witty statement here.
Umm... the company that can make more money? (by 3 orders of magnitude...)
Rick
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
Not the same one. This Robert Sewell is a hotshot consultant in the Washington D.C. area and a personal friend. I can personally attest to his encyclopediac knowledge and peerless software architecture and development skills on any platform you care to name.
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
More specifically, in a battle between commercial censorware and thousands of pimply-faced adolescent boys awash in hormones and free time, who do you think would "win"?
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
Yes, on one hand he's saying, "Don't trust anyone over 30 to have a clue about technology." and on the other he's saying that, "While I don't have a clue about technology, I know how to fix it."
People might complain about Texas politicians being amateur, but this kind of thinking often happens at the national level too!
I would also be upset if something popped up porn at me without me being able to stop it, but we all know what a double-edged sword censorware is. Or more specifically, it's only got edge, and that only works on the user.
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
The big deal is that some guy who doesn't know the difference between a bit and a byte is attempting to force a private enterprise and end-users to pay for a product that has been shown not to work as expected, and thinking he can and should do it. Even the suggestion that a law should be passed to make sellers ask if the buyer wants the filter is bad.
<RANT>
The two things that make me want to run out and beat this guy with tuna is this "There ought to be a law" attitude and the FM attitude towards computer use. Just because he is too stupid to install a piece of software or even pay a geek to install it doesn't mean that everyone else might be. And the idea he need government intervention because he got some porno spam makes me wonder how the hell did he get the majority of votes in his district, did he run against a turnip? And if so how close was it? And the idea that a 30 year old can't figure out how to install a program...WTF!! If he can't RTFM then he should ATG(Ask the Geek).
</RANT>
Which Robert Sewell was that? I had a lecturer named Robert Sewell; he worked for Telstra. I don't know what his opinion on Java was, though.
--
You're a suburbanite.
While I'm sure this bill will get a lot of press, the simple fact is, it has very little chance of passing, much less getting out of committee and to the House floor. Why? Well, there's a lot of problems.
First, the Texas Legislature only meets every 2 years (and only meets for about the first 5 months of the year, at that). And while a lot of people want to change this, dumb bills like this are the perfect reason[1]. This is clearly a reaction to an annoyance. Once the author goes home, the bill dies and he'll never re-file it. Meanwhile, the important bills get through because there's political pressure to move them.
Second, this would, of course, drive 2 of the state's largest employers nuts, as well as annoy the oddly powerful ISP lobby (ISPs hate nothing more than to have to support Censorware. It seems to cause nothing but complaints.)
Third, and most important, the bill (as written) is simply NOT enforceable. Under certain readings of the bill, I could say that EVERY operating system has Cencorware built in. All you have to do is remove the default gateway, and there you go no more access to porn sites. Further, what about machines bought out of state and shipped in? What about machines built in state and shipped out of state? Do these have to have the Censorware included?
[1] How many times and your state assembly done something dumb? It happens less often here.
Well, since there is no parental control software for linux, could we get the bill struck down because it requires you to run Windows (on X86 at least)? Seems to me like it is creating a government-sponsored monopoly.
_this is not a signature_
including filtering software with computers does not constitute an infringement
No? How about forcing me to buy something I don't want.. Imagine if you went to buy a car, and the salesman said "I'm sorry, when purchasing a car, we have to bill you for these two child-seats. It doesn't matter if you don't have children, sir. It's the law."
provides choice for those who DO wish to filter content without having to purchase additional software
This does not give you a choice, it removes your ability to choose to purchase the software or not. You're purchasing it anyway - you think that the manufacturers are going to buy something and give it to you at no cost? No, they're going to charge you for it.
yes, junkbuster could be used to block pr0n as well as ads. as a first thought this seems like a bad idea. the advertisers would raise hell of course and i would guess that dell, gateway, and compaq would neg that b/c they use banners and ads too.
but.... if everybody started blocking the ads we could see some great benefits. namely, people realizing that every available space doesn't have to be covered w/ ads. alot of sci fi puts ads on every available surface in "the future" and it isn't hard to see that happening. I would like to see us start to buck that trend and say that we don't want to be pestered to buy something everywhere we look.
Don't assume. They did state anything with an OS would need it... Time to open an OS reseller in Texas.
I would also be upset if something popped up porn at me without me being able to stop it, but we all know what a double-edged sword censorware is.
More to the point in a battle between commercial censorware producers and porn spammers who do you think would "win"?
Couldn't someone write a program that filters out whitehouse.com or some other site. Sure, it would be the worse piece of censorware in the world, but it would censor. I haven't looked at the text of the bill close enough to know if they use the word "effective." Of course, if they did, then they would effectively ban Personal Computers in Texas.
I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person that I'm preaching to.
Amazingly enough, some of us aren't completely selfish.
Oops. I missed your biggest misunderstanding.
The "censorware tax" isn't a literal tax. The phrase is an analogy. You have to pay for the censorware whether you want it or not, so the entire price of the censorware is like a tax.
The original such analogy was the "Windows tax", where you buy Windows with a new PC even if you intend to delete it immediately
I was wondering why you thought the censorware was so cheap.
Funny!
Boss of nothin. Big deal.
Son, go get daddy's hard plastic eyes.
Expanding a vast wasteland since 1996.
Uh, no - they're in Roundrock, TX. Just north of Austin on IH-35. It's a separate town. And yes, I am a Native Texan, thank you very much :) Born in Austin, too.
The problem is that the oath of office isn't backed up with prison time for violation.
/.
/. If the government wants us to respect the law, it should set a better example.
Not true. Pretty easy. Did it twice yesterday. Need three floppies.
Put in the rescue disk, flip on the computer without the OS, follow the online instructions, you've got Debian installed in just a couple of hours.
No comment as to how easy to follow the online instructions would be for a newbie (I had no trouble when I was a newbie), but there's definately no problem with installing an OS on a machine with no OS to begin with.
-- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
A _committee_ is _hearing_testimony_ on the bill. That's about the equivalent of you or I looking at Saturn's website while we're in the market for a car. It doesn't mean that we intend to buy a Saturn. It means that it's a possibility, if they meet certain requirements. Right now, this Slashdot story is about the equivalent of a Ford fanatic going nuts because he happened to look over your shoulder and see what you were doing.
Let me explain the steps that this bill will have to go through in order to be passed (as I understand it):
1) A committe hears testimony.
2) The committe votes on whether or not to recommend it to the House as a whole. I believe the committee can also modify the bill, or recommend modifications.
3) If the committe approved, then the House considers it (I'm not sure if they hear more testimony or not). This may also include modifying the bill.
4) The House votes on whether or not they approve the bill.
5) The Senate considers the bill (again, I'm not sure if they hear more testimony). The Senate can also consider modifying whatever the House sent them.
(I'm not sure which order the next two steps occur in)
6/7?) The Senate votes.
7/6?) If the Senate approved a different version of the bill than the House, then people from the Senate and House have to work together to reach some sort of compromise.
8) If the governor approves, he signs the bill.
That's no less than 8 steps (possibly more), and we are on the _first_ step. Along the way, the bill can be modified at 2 or more places. These modifications could include clauses for OS's that don't have censorware, and maybe a clause that will allow the buyer to opt out of the censorware. In fact, as I understand it, very few bills (possibly none) survive the process without modifications.
Or the bill could be outright rejected at no less than FOUR places (committe, House, Senate, governor). What this really means is that the democratic process is working. Someone wrote a bill that they think is being important. A small group of people are looking over the bill to see whether it's worth having everyone look at it. At this stage, if you're a Texas resident, this might be a good time to send one of these people a kind, well-worded letter about some of the shortcomings of the bill. If no one in the committee listens, then you still have two more opportunities to influence someone into making that change.
This is how the democratic process works: slow but steady. The entire thing was designed so that Joe Q. Citizen could provide his/her input at many places.
So, please remove the stick from your rear end, and report on what's actually happening.
By the way timothy, if you're going to knock states off your list because of the bills they've considered, you might as well knock them all off, and find a new country (maybe you could be Slashdots first foreign correspondent?). Actually, this might be a good idea, because you seem to have very little understanding of how the U.S. government works.
Also, to the person that submitted this story, where's your source for the thing about the AOL email? I followed all of the links, and didn't see anything about it. As far as I know, you made that whole thing up and then posted it as a fact.
all these comments "Oh it'll never pass, they've got DELL/Compaq/Gateway/IBM etc down there, they've got a LOT of pull" uhh WTF? The idea is not to champion "corporate influence" but to pump up individual/grass root influence. ANY type of corporate influence is bad because it necessarily subtracts from the influence/rights/powers of the individuals. We shouldn't trumpet corporate influnce when it happens to come down on our side (rare as that may be); we should organize ourselves into grassroot groups with enough influence to create our own "pull." Don't bend over to a corporation once because you agree; you'll just be lubed up for the next time - when you don't. Grim indeed.
> 1) This is terrible!
> therefore
> 2) Something must be done!
You forgot: 2.5) for great just^W^Wthe children!
>
> # route add default reject
Hmm... Now that I think about it, something like Junkbuster and a non-null sblock.ini should probably qualify.
After all, it's something its users use to block content they deem offensive ;-)
If it ever looks like the bill will pass, all we have to do is point this out and supply a suitable blockfile. The DMA will spend a small fortune on lobbyists to kill it.
Pisses off the control freaks. Costs the DMA money. Sounds like win-win all around.
They're already going up: roadside storefronts offering to disable the pron filter on your computer.
I haven't dealt with censorware myself, but is it really that easy to uninstall? Seems like that'd defeat at least part of the purpose if it were that easy to get around.
People are like people everywhere you go, but sometimes you have to interpret their actions in the context of their society to see that.
It's most likely going nowhere in Texas and the article shows a profound misunderstanding of how Texas politics work, and considerable intolerance. I mean, one legislator proposes one bill out of the thousands that are submitted for considertion before the legislation goes out of session and it's supposed to reveal how all Texans think about all things? Does everyone in your neck of the woods think exactly alike? About all issues?
I guarantee that the background and focus and political bent of a typical person down in the Rio Grande Valley or up near El Paso or deep in the "piney woods" of East Texas are different from the people in more urbanized areas like Houston or Dallas or San Antonio. Even then, 100 people from even from the same area and socioeconomic class will have 100 different political beliefs and backgrounds. That's the way it works in the rest of the United State of America and that's the way it works in Texas, too.
The Texas legislature is only in session for about six months every other year, so you see a burst of all kinds of bills submitted right before the deadline for the session. Most of those bills, including this one, haven't a snowball's chance of passing. Some do manage to pass, but are in a form that, except for the bill number, is completely unrecognizeable as the original bill. If the committee is leary[sic] of the bill, it'll likely die there, possibly to be resurrected in 2003, but I doubt it.
It would be better to move their HQ elsewhere. Or at least announce to consider it. If they can make the point public that this bill is just forcing away business (and hence money) from Texas some people might reconsider.
"By the way if anyone here is in advertising or marketing... kill yourself." -- Bill Hicks
Do they do laptops?
Most people can find the "uninstall" for the filtering program and remove it if they don't want it.
Like most people find the uninstall for that paperclip? or is that a well - loved feature that everybody leaves on their Office installation for the perpetually orgasmic joy of changing focus()?
domingo.garcia@house.state.tx.us
What if a company decides to market PC's that feature Linux instead of that other 'life on the edge of a crash' OS?
Under this bill, if a "personal computer" incudes an operating system, the manufacturer would be required to provide fitering software.
According to that summary the bill would seem to apply to computers with pre-installed operating systems. In other words: To machines bundeled with the software.
Assuming that's the case it might provide an incentive to unbundle, selling machines WITHOUT pre-installed OSes, and sell the OS separately, as a way to evade the law.
If that happened, Linux users could get the machines sans MS, and not have to try for the essentially unobtainable refunds.
Of course, once Microsoft makes a "Texas Edition" the incentive is gone...
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
If this moronic law passes there is always that. After all, I'd highly doubt it'd be enforceable elsewhere.
But then again this is at the vendor level. So who's to say the consumers would even be aware of this...
"You are only young once, but you can be immature forever." -www.animemusicvideos.org
the adults over 30!!!!!!
"You are only young once, but you can be immature forever." -www.animemusicvideos.org
It makes sense to me. Just how many people 30+ years of age or older out there know how to program their VCR clocks let alone install software on a computer. :)
Poor people are poor because they want to be poor.
I'm pretty sure that nobody has ever said this except for liberals when they're attempting to ridicule conservatives. Some people see creating opportunities as a better solution than handouts.
Children do not deserve a quality education if they can't afford it.
Exactly, that's why school vouchers are a good idea. Education funding should be for students and not for schools.
A $500 tax cut for the average American is generous.
Damn straight. And I'm sure that the average American would have been even happier with a $501 tax cut from Gore. Let's see $500 divided by 26 paychecks a year is, wow, an extra $20, DAMN! now I can afford a Lexus.
A $40,000 tax cut for the upper .05% is fair because they pay more taxes.
Well damnit! I think that it would be more fair if everyone paid the same amount in taxes. Let's face it. Taxes in the US are pretty low. Cutting them by a few percent isn't going to amount to much unless you're paying an awful lot in taxes already.
Estate taxes are bad.
That they are. They aren't effective at keeping an effective aristocracy from existing and they hurt people who depend on owning business property like shops and farms for their income.
Oil is good.
Sure is. Oil is pretty essential to the modern economy and it's a far sight better than coal.
Fossil fuel dependency is good. the more oil we have access to, the more gooder the good is. Exploring alternative energy sources and encouraging efficiency is bad.
Nobody is saying that, but keeping energy costs low is important too. Bush has actually shown quite a bit of support for ethanol based fuels.
Government funded research is bad. Social programs are bad. Better weapons technology is good.
Government funded research should be accountable for producing results and new knowledge. Social programs that don't provide anything beyond a free paycheck are bad effective social programs provide opportunities for a whole community. Better weapons technology is good. It's a way of spending research money while producing a tangible benefit as well.
The middle class is thriving. The middle class has a higher standard of living than 10 years ago. There is a larger and more vibrant middle class today than ever before in our country's history.
And how is this a problem caused by the current administration?
Cheap foreign labor is good for America.
Yeah, Americans like to buy things.
Do you want fried with that?
No, I'd rather have onion rings today.
_____________
I don't want free as in beer. I just want free beer.
And this is the first I've heard of this outrageous bill. This seems like Just Another Parent's Overreaction(TM) to his kid seeing porn on the internet. Yes, kids shouldn't be looking at this sort of thing, but no, putting censorware on every computer in Texas sure as hell won't stop that. Dallas is a very tech-savvy industry, and I'm sure this won't pass, (Nortel Networks alone has something in the order of 15,000 employees... imagine their delite in this bill) Maybe this is one time where Corporatocracy could actually help our freedom.
~Marshall
-------------------
arcane for life
Dell is in Austin Texas. I would image they wield some serious power down there.
Someone you trust is one of us.
If you don't know how to use a computer, please RTFM. If you don't want to learn how to use a computer, then DON'T BUY A COMPUTER. There, the demons have been purged. This place is clean.
Dijital
Diji
"I came, I saw, I WTF'd!"
[BLATANT_FLAME_IGNITOR]
it's already around 48-49 on the list.
[/BLATANT_FLAME_IGNITOR]
The difference between Theory and Practice is greater in Practice than in Theory.
sigh... Every week of news seems to give me one more reason to move out of the U.S.
Furry cows moo and decompress.
Now i don't feel so bad being in Kansas,another state in which elected officials made rules for the masses based on utter incompetence.*draws breath*
Until recently our state school board hadn't "evolved" from austropithicus homerus.
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
any state where Guinness can not be sold as "beer" (it is a "stout", therefore not sold as beer and harder to find than hens teeth),
Funny, I have no problem finding it at my local Kroger's or Randall's...
hand guns can be carried anywhere, concealed, even in church
Illegally? Sure, you can get that anywhere. Legally? Um... no. You have to have a permit for said firearm. Also, I'm not sure about churches, but for example, it's HIGHLY illegal to have a firearm anywhere NEAR a school, permit or no. AND, all a company/church/business needs to do is post a sign stating that firearms are not permitted on the premises, and said permit won't help you if you're caught with the weapon.
As for the topic at hand... I don't see this going through, simply because Dell and Compaq are going to fight this through their teeth, if only because the corporate customers won't be too happy... :)
That ad campain about it being a different country was right. Library censorship is one thing, but I cannot imagine that any other state (Well, maybe Utah.) would let this go anywhere. Makes me glad I decided to pass up going to the University of Texas and become a dotcommer (Ok, given my company's stock price, that isn't true :).
It has nothing to do with the cost.
It has everything to do with purchasing something I don't want.
It has everything to do with giving someone else a free ride (the filter company) without them actually having to work for it (Hey! It's mandatory. They'll take whatever we give them).
The requirements are so vague it's laughable;
Sec. 35.104. SOFTWARE TO BE INCLUDED WITH SALE OF PERSONAL2-1 COMPUTER. (a) A person in the business of selling personal
2-2 computers shall provide with each personal computer sold by that
2-3 person software that enables the purchaser of the personal computer
2-4 to automatically block or screen indecent material on the Internet.
2-5 (b) Software provided in compliance with Subsection (a)
2-6 must be compatible with any operating system that is provided by
2-7 the seller to the purchaser of the personal computer at the time of
2-8 purchase. If an operating system is not provided by the seller of
2-9 the personal computer, the software required under Subsection (a)
2-10 must be compatible with at least one operating system that may be
2-11 installed to operate on the computer.
For Windoze, just include any of the existing packages. Now, even the censorware companies don't claim 100% blockage, right? So if they want to insist on 100% automatic blocking, then you'll never sell another computer in Texas. This point is VERY important for the Linux case. Isn't there already a way in Linux to block certian IP's? If not, how hard would it be to write a daemon that dumped anything to or from a list of IP's? I'm not a coder, so I don't know the answer to that question, though I suspect the answer is, not very hard. Simply supply this daemon with a *SHORT* list of IP's, just the obvious porno sites like whitehouse.com, etc. Seems to me like that fullfils the requirement. And you can even point out that people would be able to add sites to block by simply editing the file that has the list of blocked IP's! If TX whines that it doesn't block all porno, simply point out that every vendor of censorware admits that their software doesn't block 100%, either.
Merde, il pleut encore!
I've lived in Texas for several years, and took a class in the machinations of the Texas Legislature last session that involved trips to local representatives, attending committee meetings in Austin, watching the Senate floor sessions, etc.
Being a CS major, I tended not to get as 'into it' as some of the other students, but I kept what I learned at the back of my mind for exactly this sort of occasion - so here's what YOU the Slashdot reader in Texas can do to help stop this bill:
1. Write to the Business and Industry committee members. That's where the bill is now, and like in the US gov't, its likely to stay if it doesn't get enough support to be passed onto the House floor. Committee members DO want all the facts before the make their decisions, and unfortunately the time has passed to file petitions to speak at the open hearings. Should the bill be scheduled for a second hearing however, common citizens can get in on the action! Contact the Business and Industry Cmte to find out more on how to speak at the hearings, or file your opinions on HB 1295. The Cmte. Clerk is Bonnie Bruce, and should be able to answer all your questions on what to do and how to do it
2. Write your own incumbents . Its a classic method to express your opinions and try to make change.
3.Write to Rep. Garcia He's a representative from Dallas, so if you're in the area, call his Dallas or Austin offices, write to them both! Express yourself about his feeling that everyone over 30 is too dumb to use a computer without the government forcing censorware down your throat.
If this post and information gets just 1 person to write to the Committee or to Rep. Garcia, then I'll have done my job =)
I can't see this becoming law - companies that large should have more than enough politicians on their payroll (oops, did I say that?). Of course, the digital industry has often lagged its Old Economy predecessors in the political arena.
Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
I'm amazed to see how much knee-jerk reaction /. can get out of posting the contents of a proposed bill from ANY state.
Bear in mind, people, that this is a House Bill, and hundreds of House Bills filter through the legislature every year without getting so much as the simplest media attention. Know why? Because they're stupid, and even the legislators know it, but they try it anyway, to see just how they need to refine it to make it pass.
This is nothing to worry about, (I'd almost call it a waste of breath), and I can't believe that /. jumped on the bandwagon.
Junkbuster runs on winblows, too, and just about any UNIX-like OS. Don't think it runs on MacOS, but just grab the source and fix it!
Pardon my language, but I'm sick and tired of jerks like this assuming that anyone over 30 is incapable of understanding tech. I'm 51 and have been programming for 20 years. I think I could handle installing censorware - but I'm not ignorant enough to want to install it in the first place.
Stereotyping older people as tech-ignorant is just as bad as stereotyping young geeks as sociopathic hacker terrorists. (But I will be glad to stereotype all politicians as money-grubbing power-hungry ignoramuses!)
No sig? Sigh...
Provides no ability for consumers to "opt out" of the installation when buying a computer.
Provides no exemption for businesses
Filtering software has been shown to be highly inaccurate
Provides no provisions for non-Windows operating systems
The Bill's fiscal note attached estimated a financial impact of zero. If Dell is required to install a $50 censorware package that a business does not need, and other manufacturers like Compaq are not, by virtue of not being in Texas, that hurts Dell, and hurting Dell hurts Texas, especially in my area (I live in Round Rock, where Dell world hq is)
I urge all Texas residents to do the same, today.
Yet another dreamland article courtesy of /.
Or have the trolls taken over Texas?
All opinions are my own - until criticized
an old guy with a beard, sitting on a rocking chair on the porch of an old shack, with a shotgun in his hands muttering "we don't take kindly to strangers...".
Stupid sexy Flanders.
If this sort of software didn't work on AOL why are they now trying to make it manatory on individual machines? So people will be forced to pay for software that doesn't work? I cannot belive the lawmakers of the state I live in are so lame. How do we find out which of our elected representatives supported this bill to this point. I think it is about time we started holding these egg heads accountable for their actions.
While the chances of this passing or remaining legal for a significant period of time if passed are probably pretty low, what would happen if it did? I'm no government expert, but doesn't this infringe on our rights to free speech? While I don't think that a lot of the stuff on the 'net is appropriate for certain viewers (if any!), it seems quite scary that a state government would impose such a law. Well, mabe the tourism adds were correct, "Texas. It's like a whole other country!".- ---
-------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------
Perversely greped and groped by PowerPenguin
It can be a good thing, because not much gets done, and this remains one of the more free states.
t
What I'm thinking is that if they want to legislate inclusion of censorware because its too complicated for people to possibly install, then they need to legislate the inclusion of other things. In fact, PC sellers should include everything the buyer might ever need on the computer because it would be too difficult to install.
And when I go to fill out my taxes, they should be done for me when I pick up the forms because that is too complicated.
As long as we can just pass laws and make solutions, if I buy a car (I bought a Saturn) then I should be provided with a car that would fill all my possible needs. Choosing the right one is too complicated for me.
Hmm. We could pass a law that all medicine should work, and be applied successfully.
Damn, this is easy.
t
I imagine that if the operating system was not bundled with the computer... but sold as a separate package, or given away free with purchase of a computer, and included detailed instructions like... put cd in drive and turn on computer... the requirement could be avoided.
I'm the big fish in the big pond bitch.
Right, but if I'm a corporate buyer and I'm having Dell prebuild my machines with my stock configuration, I don't want to be told that I can have my stock configuration only if it includes "this little extra bit of software that we're required by law to install." Note that last word too - it says install. That's different from just bundling it with the PC.
Expect this to die a quick death. Dell might be able to just move all of its assembly out of Texas to avoid it, but if not then they'd be better off moving than giving up the corporate sales that are their lifeblood.
-- fencepost
fencepost
just a little off
This is not the responsibilty of the government. This should be a chance for a business to step up to the plate with a family friendly "optional" setup. If people support this option and it is available they will buy it. There is no need for a state mandated law.
When did this country become "freedom for all... if the people in charge agree with you..."
.plan!! what plan?
Shit, I thought just being 30 would be bad enough.
Insanity is the last line of defence for the master diplomat. But you have to lay the groundwork early.
First, AOHell is a major target for spammers. In the past, at least, they've published easily accessible directories of their email addresses.
Second, those of us who use Internet standard email clients, as opposed to the proprietary bloatware that AOHell provides, don't seem to have this problem.
Third, maybe they should try outlawing spam.
--
Ooh, moderator points! Five more idjits go to Minus One Hell!
Delenda est Windoze
Ooh, moderator points! Five more idjits go to Minus One Hell!
Delendae sunt RIAA, MPAA et Windoze
"This lowers Texas on the list of "states to move to" when my lease runs out."
Let's face it... any state where Guinness can not be sold as "beer" (it is a "stout", therefore not sold as beer and harder to find than hens teeth), hand guns can be carried anywhere, concealed, even in church, and automatic weapons are easier to get than, say, renting furniture... Uh uh... not for me.
Ceci n'est pas une sig.
"Garcia also said that downloading and installing the software over the net is too difficult for anyone over 30 years old to install."
Maybe Mr. Garcia should learn that just because he's an idiot, not everyone in his age-group is equally idiotic.
Or in other words, "I'm stupid, I've got power, I'm going to keep dangerous objects away from EVERYONE else, because I can."
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
You make it sound as if the Texas gov't paying the users is an actual plus for the person. Where does the gov't get the cash? From the taxpayers. What you're saying is "The gov't should give money to the populace that they're going to have to take away from the populace in order to pay for it."
It's just robbing Peter to pay Peter.
--
it's "SOMEONE SET UP US THE CENSORWARE" Just doing my duty.
Black holes are where the Matrix raised SIGFPE
Ship the computer with a blank hard drive. Enclose a bootable CD with everything ready-to-install on it. The consumer would turn on the machine, wait for "Missing operating system", insert the CD, then hit the panic button. The machine reboots and installs Windows, productivity apps, whatever. Maybe it'll be a few CDs, with a prompt to insert the next one when needed. Make it DEAD SIMPLE. This way, the machine does indeed ship blank, so no censorware will be needed.
--
has anyone asked the question "why so many spammers had his email address?" "This bill was prompted by SPAM to the author's, Garcia, AOL account popping up porn before being caught by the AOL parental controls. " ya, sounds like some one was caught alright!
Doesn't anyone else find this disturbing?
I'm less than three months away from my 30th birthday, and it's only now that I find out that come June 19th, 2001 my mental faculties will diminish to the point where I will no longer be able to comprehend the words "click here to download," and I will find my fingers so twisted by this mysterious affiliction that I will not be able to double-click an "install.exe" icon! And who know what other debilitating side effects this condition will bring!
Why has no one warned me about this?!?
Isn't there something I can do about it? Maybe there's some sort of experimental drug I can take, or groundbreaking research being done in some Scandinavian clinic?
We have to do something! Perhaps with the few precious months left to me I can set up some sort of foundation, or a telethon or something. Let us all join together to battle this crippling malady!
* * *
* * *
It is a dada story -- it has no moral.
Here's the kicker, though. The bill is predicated on the assumption that people are too clueless to download and install software themselves. By the same token, then, they ought to be too clueless to deactivate or remove software. The bill actually attempts to mandate censorware, not filterware, if you look at it through the eyeballs of those who drafted it.
I knew the Internet was getting dumbed down, I just didn't realize it would have to get as dumb as Texas!
People shape laws. Not the other way around.
If I'd come from Texas that would mean you shouldn't trust me into not trusting myself.
--
Je t'aime Stéphanie
So all these days all we had to pay was a microsoft tax on every computer we bought. Now we need to pay a censorware tax on every computer? Consider that dell operates out of texas so they will be installing censorware on every computer they sell. And who's going to be paying for it? You and me! Don't you just love it when the government forces you to buy a product you have no use for?
It seems to me that there are two arguments here. One is the common one about censorware being evil and the other is that there is no censorware available for some (i.e. Free Software) operating systems that people want to sell. I don't have any solutions to the first other than to try to stop the legislation from passing, but I do have an idea about the second. Well just install Junkbuster and call it censorware.
If you think about it, Junkbuster is capable of doing everything that people expect from their censorware. It can block a whole list of sites based either on domain names (like whitehouse.com) or regexs (like domains including the word sex). With a bit of work you could make it look just like any other piece of censorware. Of course the big difference is that you'd also include the traditional anti-ad blocklist and a set of instructions- maybe even a shell script- to switch from blocking pr0n to blocking ads. This would allow you to dodge the law while providing something that your customers actually want. It's also easy as hell to disable if you decide to do so.
There's no point in questioning authority if you aren't going to listen to the answers.
It would probably work much the same way the all car manufacturers are required to include extra emmission controls on all cars sold to California, regardless of where they are manufactured... even outside the US.
PJRC: Electronic Projects, 8051 Microcontroller Tools
I was going to flame you for living up to the stereotype until I saw:
-Craig (formerly of Schulenburg, TX)
I guess you never got to Austin or you would have had a different impression.
Warning! Keep Out of Eyes! Wash Out with Water! Don't Drink Soap! Dilute! Dilute!
Yes I know you are a troll but since I don't have mod status...
So by your logic if I'm well paid I shouldn't care about being forced to pay for something that I don't want and am not going to use. It wouldn't matter if I had all of Bill "Mother F**king" Gates' money, I still wouldn't feel OK about being robbed. Your "logic" is flawed.
Warning! Keep Out of Eyes! Wash Out with Water! Don't Drink Soap! Dilute! Dilute!
Have you called Dell recently and tried to buy a computer sans OS? Good luck. They'll cite piracy, difficulty, or just about anything else (I'm guessing here, but I bet piracy would be near the top) to justify it, but in the end, they still won't sell it to you.
:)
I still think that the best way of doing a computer, is, of course, to build it yourself; however, not everyone wants to or has the time to do this. Maybe we need a bill to force OEM's to sell computers without an OS to go along with this one...
sorry, but you're not thinking far enough - I want legislate that all cars should get me where I go without having to learn to drive not just satisfy my needs; its far too complicated for someone who can't even insert a CD in a drive and click 'ok' to be expected to operate a motor vehicle.
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"
From the bit of bill linked, I saw no definition of what they mean by PC. I know that these OSes aren't for what you or I mean by that statement, but I would expect that oh, say Texas' Compaq would want a wording in there that ensures this doesn't apply to their non-Intel boxes.
Alternatively, stuff the bill - my Linux box is a standalone personal *nix server, not a PC.
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"
Aah, so thats why they keep losing Mars missions - the censorware won't let it send back the message
"Successfully penetrated the atmosphere and forced my probe into the moist crevice"
Everything becomes clear...
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"
ok, so I know they mean parents. Still think that this sounds like someone following the old political logic:
1) This is terrible!
therefore
2) Something must be done!
3) This is something
therefore
4) This must be done!
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"
Anyone seen censorware for Solaris clients?
OS/390?
VMS?
Tru64?
HP/UX?
etc etc
This bill seriously needs to include a clue as to what they are legislating...
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"
"installing the software over the net is too difficult for anyone over 30 years old to install"
Oh no! We better legislate to protect those innocent little 30 year olds minds before theyre corrupted!!!
This sounds like the most dumbly worded bill I've ever heard.
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"
We need a law for this kind of shit?
Seriously ... when was the last time you felt like you needed the good ole' boys on this Hill (or the Texan equivolent) to tell you that you must purchase X, Y and Z with your new DELL or Compaq?
What's next? Oil purchased from Texas must be accompanied by the purchase of child safety seats? I mean, gasoline comes from oil and cars run on gas and some people have kids and those kids need safety seats!
SAVE THE CHILDREN!!!
No, I don't think so, mayhaps a better rallying call would be: fuck the lawyers, vote the clown Garcia out of office.
-- Cheers
-- RLJ
SOFTWARE TO BE INCLUDED WITH SALE OF PERSONAL COMPUTER. (a) A person in the business of selling personal computers shall provide with each personal computer sold by that person software that enables the purchaser of the personal computer to automatically block or screen indecent material on the Internet
And they also may require monkeys to fly out of my butt when I purchase a computer as well, but that's not going to happen. How can these jokers mandate something that's impossible?
Pretty crazy, if you ask me. Of course, this will never live through the court challenges...
Alright, I use Linux, but this post really upsets me...
Not everyone can download and install an OS - and downloading several hundreds of megs is quite difficult if you have no OS to start with.
Just because someone uses Windows does not mean they deserve to be subjected to censorware.
Not just new manufacturing - my interpretation is that this applies to all computers sold in Texas.
Needless to say, that pretty much would cut the state out of the modern world. Of course, since most of the world doesn't execute 300 people per year...
I didn't say that. I said something like "People who aren't smart enough to buy a computer without an OS don't deserve censorship on that basis".
When will people learn???? AOL IS NOT THE INTERNET!!!
I have a moral right to control what my kids see, because I have a moral obligation to raise and educate them until they reach adulthood. Now I, and any smart parent, will allow my kids more and more control over what they do and see as they get older. By the time they are almost ready to move out on their own, but still living under my benevolent dictatorship, they will be making almost all their own decisions. In this way, I will do my best to equip them to deal with the world.
Perhaps you could argue that some people should help me out in parenting my children (neighbors and relatives come to mind). However, under no circumstances should anyone be forced to help me out, by paying taxes to provide me with filtering software. (Be aware that this is from the guy that thinks others should not be paying taxes to pay for my kids' schooling, either.)
How right you are! Parents, put that computer in a common area, not up in the kids' room. Use it with your kids. When they do use it on their own, make a point to come by and see what they are doing."Rub her feet." -- L.L.
1) As already mentioned there could be a market for censorware on alternative O/Ss, and open source censorware with open source black lists could enable people to group together and make their own CHOICES about what their children should not see. Surely religion and computer skills are not mutually exclusive concepts.
2) THIS COULD BE THE MEANS BY WHICH THE WINDOWS TAX IS REPEALED. SYSTEMS SANS O/S COULD BECOME POPULAR. Simply sell the O/S separately in a bubble pack and screw the evil empire.
3) Garcia could learn about computers in the real world when all the computer sellers agree to deliver censorware with an empty white list, except maybe allowing him to get to slashdot.
4) People who pay for porn are stupid, immature, idiots who should have such a sexual outlet to keep them from reproducing and further degrading the gene pool.
How many people have to suffer a harsh punishment before "cruel and unusual" returns zero?
Some idiot in another state tried to legislate the value of PI. So why does this surprize you in the least?
How many people have to suffer a harsh punishment before "cruel and unusual" returns zero?
It certainly IS possible to block all indecent material. Simple, just block EVERYTHING. Would comply with the letter of the law. A filter that has 2 settings. Internet On and Internet Off. On the Internet Off setting it would DEFINITELY block all porn. Just put a real user friendly icon on the desktop (a big switch with a wireframe rendition of the world connected to it would be cool) and a commandline program (internet --on and internet --off for example) and you're legal. ;)
(maybe not, ask a lawyer for legal advice...)
Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
Garcia also said that downloading and installing the software over the net is too difficult for anyone over 30 years old to install.
Sorry if there's a blank post with the same title. I hit enter my mistake. Anyway, I guess I'm in a lot of trouble. Geeze, I mean I'm like 33 now and I'm still writing software. Time to retire and let the kids take care of the computer at home. Oh, waitaminute... That's right I don't have any kids. Dang, now I'm screwed.
Why not sell an "anti-censorship" filter. The same thing as existing filters, but blocks nothing (or almost nothing). As long as the censorship application is installed and in place, the law is not violated... You may need to block one URL so that it could still be classified as a blocking program...
> The only thing more frightening than your statement was the speed in which your statement was voted up.
/bots are probably moderating him just because of its low UID.
Yeah. At first read I thought he was trying to make a point, like, they'll see that this stupidy cost $50 to $100M, but it looks like he actually beleive what he wrote.
Fun to see.
Cheers,
--fred
1 reply beneath your current threshold.
Well, if this bill requires censorware with computers sold WITH an OS, then seperate the OS and computer in the sale. The dealer can set up everything and get the OS installed on the hard drive, but then remove the drive from the computer before, ship it seperately with a second invoice. Is there enough loophole in the bill for something like this? It basically gives you what you want, all you have to do yourself is to plug in the hard drive (or if you're unable then find a friend who can) Where is the line drawn regarding "personal computer"? My employer is setting up a chip fab in Texas someplace, do the PCs there absolutely ahve to have censorware, increasing hte price? What about workstations? We're big on Sun solaris boxen as well... Does Texas distinguish between PCs and workstations? And what about the fact that "personal computer" and "PC" have come to mean wintel box? Or perhaps linux dealers can market PC hardware with linux as workstation class machines, and slide around that "personal computer" terminology in the bill??
Its censorware if even one person is required to run it.
They're also trying to pass a bill to arm public school teachers. Get me out.
I don't get that either, man. To me that doesn't deserve a Troll either but, hey, I'm just here to speak my mind.
Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
"I only needed one more, for the record; but you Corsican Brothers had to spoil my fun."
Hmm, mayhaps I have been watching too much Cheech and Chong.
'Cos, that's what this is. The bill won't even get out of committee, and the guy *knows* that... but he can go back to his constituents at re-election time, and say "Look! I have been Fighting The Good Fight to Protect Your Children! R3-373kt M3!" (Well, okay, maybe he won't use the s00p3r-haxx0r-speak.)
The text of the law:
A person in the business of selling personal computers shall provide with each personal computer sold by that person software that enables the purchaser of the personal computer to automatically block or screen indecent material on the Internet.
There is no software in existance that enables a person to automatically block or screen indecent material on the Internet. We all know censorware doesn't work, and I don't just mean in terms of false positives. It fails to actually censor indecent material. If I SPAM you and 5,000 other texans with naked pictures of your mothers there is no way that you are going to be able to stop me using censorware. Censorware still can't determine if an image is naughty until its been listed in their databases.
So requiring that computers be able to block indecent material isn't possible. In all truth, no one can comply with the law.
---
Linux is one of the few systems that actually CAN comply with this law:
Just include a script somewhere on the system:
ipchains -P input DENY
This is just about the ONLY way to comply with a law that REQUIRES computes being able to CENSOR INDECENT material.
---
I assume you don't need to provide censorware if you don't include a network card with the machine.
Time to open a network card reseller in Texas.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. (Einstein)
Yeah, censorware exists for Linux.
:-)
# route add default reject
all done... I think that should block any site on "the list".
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
For your edification about what happened here's the summary I posted on the Censorware Project page:
Ed
This Texan appreciates the fact that someone is bringing some common sense into this. No, I truly doubt this will go anywhere in Texas, for a myriad of reasons. The main reason being, imho, Texans are some of the most vocal people as far as not wanting the government to tell them what to do.
Believe me, this is not how most Texans think, including my >60 parents, who would wouldn't be able to install filterware themselves any better than Garcia.
This will go nowhere, and is no way indicitive of how Texan's think.
Time for some tasty Shiner Bock!
Good. Please stay out. We already have enough people here.
The Angry Armadillo
--
We don't need no steenking
This was amended in '97 to exclude those places. You can legally carry in a hospital, amusement park, or church if they are not posted...
The Angry Armadillo
In the church that I attend weekly, I have taken mental notes about how old people all have some misconceived notion that if your computer is on and the modem is plugged in then porn can just jump onto the screen by itself.
I think that we would all agree that you don't find porn unless you go looking for it.
Perhaps Mr. Garcia is just like one of the old people at church!
I no longer need to punish, deceive, or compromise myself. Unless, of course, I want to stay employed.
Then again, so is MacOS X, and so is WindowsXP which will come out with a home-centered "Personal Edition" as well as Professional and Server variants.
Apparently this bill has died in TX, thank Goddess.
----
http://www.msgeek.org/
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
Let me see if I got this straight. The legislator sponsoring this bill has an AOL account. He or his kids got some pr0n/spam (a long-time "feature" of the service, as this former user can attest) that somehow was not blocked by AOL's "parental controls". And he has filed a bill to regulate the PC manufacturers.
Did I miss something here? Sounds like the problem is his ISP, not his PC.
The Tax on the Censorware. Lemmie see... that'll be under $2, right? /. can easily afford $2000 machines and are whining about paying an extra $2? I'll eat at McDonalds for a lunch instead of a nice restaraunt today. That should cover my next two or three computers if this bill ever passes.
Most nerds on
I don't mean to troll, but if you are truely a nerd in the computer industry, you *should* be well paid (if not, just look for a job with your qualifications on Monster.com and see what you could be paid). Whining about $2 on a $2k purchase? Geez...
--
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
My computer came with Windows installed, yet I was fully capable of uninstalling, reformatted and installing linux. Most people can find the "uninstall" for the filtering program and remove it if they don't want it.
If TX is insistant on the "30+ year olds can't figure out how to install it", then pass a law that makes computer sellers ask if the customer wants it installed. Asking is polite, and won't cause as much dispute...
--
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
MG
Randomly distributing Karma whenever possible.
Back when the government first passed laws requiring motorcyclists to wear helmets, I heard about people wearing the helmets on their knees. This bill mandates provision of software that automatically blocks or screens indecent material. It doesn't say anything about necessarily letting anything through. Seems to me an off-button, or equivalent software, satisfies the requirement.
// texas compliance censorware:
// available under GPL to be included with all new
// computers.
#include <iostream>
#include <string>
int main() {
std::string s;
std::cin >> s;
if(s == "fuck") s == "f*ck";
if(s == "shit") s == "sh*t";
if(s == "cunt") s == "c*nt";
std::cout << s;
return 1;
}
Waltz, nymph, for quick jigs vex Bud.
Damn, I hate when I get the assignement and equivalence operators mixed up... Oh well, it's freeware, someone will send in a patch ;)
Waltz, nymph, for quick jigs vex Bud.
Logan's Run
Waltz, nymph, for quick jigs vex Bud.
Too bad those wacky Texans don't consider mandatory outlook security updates instead of censorware. Now that is something that might actually help somone.
~~ What's stopping you?
Garcia also said that downloading and installing the software over the net is too difficult for anyone over 30 years old to install.
I find that really insulting!
Stephen Booth (31 next month)
"Don't write down to your readers, the only people less intelligent than you can't read" - Sign on Newspaper Office Wall
I happen to live in Texas, so I guess I should care about this, but really it doesn't have anything to do with me. I don't buy pre-assembled computers anyway, so what difference does it really make? This is another clear case of "you get what you work for". I don't mean to sound callous, but what do I really care if a bunch of Compaq crunching, AOL using, "user-friendly" devotees could get the shaft. It almost seems appropriate in a cosmic sort of way. If you don't like the way things are done, do it yourself!
Well, it is time to start writing my own filtering software. I think I'll make it block goatse.cx. And nothing else.
"But that's crappy filtering software," you say.
"Yes," I say, "but it's still filtering software."
Then I'll release the binaries (only) as freeware, and let all my local PC-shops know where to get it.
wishus
---
if the 30-year-old doesn't feel competent to install the censorware himself,
good lord
nevermind
it's too depressing to think about
The Rep who introduced the bill has very choice comments, basically it appears to be a knee-jerk reaction to his kid seeing pr0n, with no real research into the underlying technology and the problems this bill would cause.
http://www.house.state.tx.us/audio/comitramfiles/1 0320p03.ram
Don't worry. A 30+ year old windows user can simply get a child to uninstall it.
134340: I am not a number. I am a free planet!
To purchase a computer without an operating System.
I'm over 30 but I can download and install Debian.
Censorware must be really complex.
134340: I am not a number. I am a free planet!
Yes, OS-less machines should be exempt according to the phrasing. IMHO, another exemption should probably be computers set up for ISP that allow censored subaccounts (like, surprise surprise, AOL). There's no reason to believe an installed censorware would be more effective than an ISP-level one. One could just install CyberPatrol in Mr. Garcia's PC and show him the holes (in more ways than one).
Then again, his reaction should probably be outrage at the low quality of the software and demand 100% bulletproof porn blocking, with stiff penalties both for the censorware manufacturer, PC seller and...
The only real "solution" to the "problem" would be to outlaw the Internet in Texas. Shame because I communicate with some nice people in Texas (yes there IS such a thing, believe it or not. I was surprised too.)
Sorehands has posted an update:5 7235&cid=6
http://censorware.net/comments.pl?sid=01/03/12/21
Also, while I'm thinking about it: this is a House bill, not a Senate bill, right?
"Sometimes a woman is a kind of religion, she can save your soul & set you free from all your sins" - Bad Examples
right, but cars are all sold locally by dealers. A very large portion of the PC market is mail order, shipped from out of state. (Of course the leading mail-order PC maker is Dell, but #2 is Gateway, in California/South Dakota.)
sulli
RTFJ.
How does Texas have authority over computers sold to Texans by out-of-state PC makers? Of course CPQ and DELL are Texas makers, but everyone's favorite PC maker, based in California, won't be affected as it's engaged in interstate commerce, clearly the authority of the US Congress.
sulli
RTFJ.
Remember the Sony VP?
"We will block Napster at source... We will firewall it at the ISP we will firewall it at your PC."
This is the first step. When Joe Sixpack buys his shiny new Dell and can't get to Napster(or any other thing the content people have put pressure on the censorware makers to block) he'll probably just give up and do something else. As long as the lists of what is blocked and why are closed, the average user will have no idea why they can't hit some sites. How long will it be before they simply breed the defiance out of most of the consumers?
Luckily I live in the state of TX and I can call my legislator and tell him to vote against this bill. Any fellow Texans, please join in.
Steven
-- I have marked myself unwilling to moderate-- I don't have other accounts to artificially inflate the karma of
Now all we need is to make it law that computers need to me secure and crash proff as well. Good bye windows.
Yep, y'all are right about that. Did you know that they actually had to pass a state law saying that landlords have to change apartment locks between residents? Oh well, in Texas it's also legal for your landlord to take your television hostage if you don't pay your rent. So I guess the answer is for you to run for the State Legislature. Oh wait, the job pays a pittance so you have to be independently wealthy to hold the job. They can't really raise the pay to a reasonable level without the Dallas Morning News running a story with the headline "Legislature to Give Itself 900% Pay Raise". Rock, meet hard spot.
-- I Am Not A Terrorist.
Remember, in legal terms "effective" doesn't mean what it means in the "real world". Look at the DMCA and how its "effective" copyright controls include CSS, and even simple XOR schemes. So I guess "effective" means that you can put together whatever half assed filter you want andcall it effective.
How the hell is this a troll? It seems like a good comment with one cut on Texas at the end.
In other words, fly the flag of what you believe in. If you don't want forced censorware, demonstrate your dislike.
Now, where's my Tux flag...?
Could I write some (free) software that only blocked Texas government sites, then offer it to computer resellers as their solution to this bill?
I can import myself a BMW from say Germany wo/Cali Emissions installed as an option as long as I can pass inspection including visual equipment test and sniffer test. Which won't be possible since Cali's emissions tests are just about impossible wo/ the extra stuff. However, If I had a Ferrari shipped from Italy and just place it in a showroom, drive it around a private track, and bring it to show/race in a trailer, then I never need worry about inspection.
Car Inpections have nothing to do with interstate trade. There would have to be a law that you have to "register" your computer or something. How ware they going to even tell you had a computer shipped to your house from CA? Are Vendors required report sales to states they have no physical presence in, I don't think so.
Sure, absolutely. My point is simply that buying the box sans OS does not exempt one from buying the filter.
This next song is very sad. Please clap along. -- Robin Zander
As for the Unicard: my only trip to Texas involved killing two hours at DFW, where I couldn't even find a local beer (not even Lone Star, for God's sake). Frankly, it sounds like a personal problem to me :)
This next song is very sad. Please clap along. -- Robin Zander
Lone Star just happened to be a beer of which I'd heard and knew had roots in the area. It shouldn't have surprised me that the airport was generic, so that travellers can feel equally alien anywhere in the world, but I was disapointed nonetheless.
The Unicard sounds like a classic boondoggle. I'd probably rant too. Tear the mother down! :)
This next song is very sad. Please clap along. -- Robin Zander
So where did the "every personal computer sold with an OS" come from? This reads to me like "every personal computer".
This next song is very sad. Please clap along. -- Robin Zander
Hey, it's Texas. Even the Dems there are in the conservative religious right.
What about that 30-year old bachelor who wants to see porn but can't figure out how to turn off the censorware? Those Texans are depriving people of their right to see naked women (or men)!
I dunno, this is the state that is protecting us from buying or shipping realistic dildos within its precious borders as well... I can see where they'd pass a stupid law like this. Also a state where grandparents or abuseive, drunken husbands can get custody of children if their mother is a "witch".
And what defines a personal computer? What about those email machines? Or other 'netpliances? Can't *gasp* porn show up on those too? So are palm pilots and visors personal computers? how do we stop the spam of porn? Run away! Run away!
I grew up in that damn state and sometimes I wonder how they get all that sand out of their ears.
Face it, people are stupid, and the internet is the place where they all meet.
Computer manufactuers don't desire anything be put or not be put on their computers. They want people buy the machines, period. If people are going to buy machines with censorware, they'll install censorware. If people want machines that don't have censorware, they won't. If people want machines that sing the Star Spangled Banner backwards on boot, they'll make machines that do that. Corporations are whores. They're just doing whatver the customer wants for the money.
This is not really newsworthy. Texas politicians will shoot this bill down like a bad habit. Why? Cause Dell and (I believe) Micron have some *serious* pull down there, and they sure as hell aren't going to agree to this.
Plus the bill is attempting to create a "positive right" (one that requires someone to act on your behalf) and those are generally frowned upon in Texas, unless they have something to do with religion. Check this out:
b) Software provided in compliance with Subsection (a) must be compatible with any operating system that is provided by the seller to the purchaser of the personal computer at the time of purchase. If an operating system is not provided by the seller of the personal computer, the software required under Subsection (a) must be compatible with at least one operating system that may be installed to operate on the computer.
Does censorware even exist for Linux? Doesn't that kind of go against all the foundations *nix OS's are founded upon? I expect this bill to die a horrible, miserable, death.
As I've mentioned in the past, I use censorware at home to protect my children when I'm at work. However, I think the installation of such software should be up to the individual computer owner.
Good point, mimics a political party I know of:
www.lp.org
I'd suggest looking into it if you feel this way about most issues.
The author of the bill seems to be one fry short of a Happy Meal:
This bill was prompted by SPAM to the author's, Garcia, AOL account popping up porn before being caught by the AOL parental controls.
When I last saw someone use AOL, web integration wasn't around, so my question is: If AOL parental controls can't catch their own program spitting porn, what software did this guy find to do it for him?
And if you really think about it, Dell already ships their computers out with censorware. Last I remember, AOL came on Windows 95, 98, and ME. I haven't checked NT or 2000. If AOL has these parental controls, then that already is a censorware package. (The bill doesn't state that the censorware has to work for any particular ISP, only "the Internet").
Like I said in a previous post, I would not worry about this bill if you live in Texas. It requires buisinesses to act within 30 days, which is too short of a timespan. I would worry if Dell starts seeing this bill as a way to oust competition and promotes it, which they actually might do now that I think about it.
But instead of forcing OEMs to install this on computers, why not simply have the gov't subsidize free copies on CD Roms that come with the computer, making sure that the installation instructions are as simply as "follow on screen instructions"?
The only thing more frightening than your statement was the speed in which your statement was voted up.
Goverment subsidies only *worsen* the problem. Why are you suddenly requiring taxpayers to pay for the ability of a handful of people to use software?
More importantly, why does everyone think this is a *great* idea? He's advocating a blatant form of socialism that is set to take money *from* you and pay for censorware. I thought this kind of stuff was frowned upon on /.
Cost: $50 to $100 millionh tml)
People in Texas: 18,673,143 (Source: http://txsdc.tamu.edu/tpepp/2000_txpopprj_county.
Price per Texan: $2.67 (Rounded DOWN)
This is a ridiculous amount of money to ask from each Texan. This price includes children, who would not be able to pay this, so you'd have to actually charge *more* than $2.67. And this is for software that you most likely would not end up using.
Come on people, catch this kind of crap and don't vote it up. Think about it.
Another example of government sticking its nose where it shouldn't be. If there were really a demand for computers with censorware preinstalled, don't you think Dell et al. would be falling over themselves to provide it?
"Biped! Good cranial development. Evidently considerable human ancestry."
I find that position laughable if you believe at all in individual freedom. Why should government decide what's "socially responsible" rather than individual citizens? The "create market share" argument implies that government should subsidize tofu to help wean Americans off Big Macs. And provide tax relief for purchasing the Abdominizer.
Smoking is not a great example, since it involuntarily affects people who choose not to participate in that activity. As for your father's position that more people would go out to see live music, it should be easy to determine whether that's true or not based on California's decision to outlaw smoking in basically all public places including bars. Incidentally, I'm a non-smoker and I truly despise smoking, but I don't see how it's my (or the government's) place to tell an individual (e.g. a bar proprietor) how he can or cannot use his private property. Anyway, who's to say that listening to live music is more "socially responsible" than, say, reading the classics of literature (not that that's what people who stay away from bars because of smoke are *really* doing on Saturday night -- my point being that I don't trust the government to make that "socially responsible" value judgment for me).
The Microsoft case is not a good example either, since PC makers probably would be falling all over themselves to offer it if M$ hadn't, in essence, said "do it and we'll break your kneecaps". I certainly don't think there's some market monopolist telling Dell et al. that it damn well better not sell censorware if it wants to keep its OS license.
"Biped! Good cranial development. Evidently considerable human ancestry."
Quickly, I want to see the state's servers scream in pain!
"I'm just here to regulate funkyness." - James Gandolfini, as Winston in The Mexican
I think this was more of a 'funny' story than a 'panic' story. As timothy noted, the committee seemed leery, and as others have noted, this wouldn't likely stand up in court. This is more of a case of a technophobe using personal experience to generalize about computer-related issues ("anyone over 30"?! I thought I misread that at first!). The fact that this person has enough power to get this bill to be considered is somewhat unnerving, however.
As a side note, I think Texas should probably already be pretty low on timothy's list of 'States to move to when my lease runs out'. The Lonestar state seems to be in the news fairly regularly with regards to wacky legislation (both tech- and non-tech related).
From hell's heart I fstab at /dev/hdc
Y'all are failing to take into account the Texas Legislature Factor. Contemplate our current Fearless Leader, realize where he cut his political teeth, then *all* of this will make sense.
Our Leg is packed with low-functioning idiots elected (on the whole) by people who vote for the guy with the prettiest and/or meanest political ad. Over the years, their decision making has caused us to consistently duke it out with Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi, and Arkansas for the lowest rung on the ladder with respect to social services _including_education_ and basic quality-of-life issues. This is much more an indictment of Texas (home to 3 of the nations 10 largest cities) than it is of those other states (since agriculture provides less money than industry overall).
I'm not too concerned about this bill - it probably requires an amendment to the Texas Constitution (not kidding).
Texas: Living proof that Corruption Is Unnecessary Where Ignorance Will Do.
It is unlawful for a handgun license holder to carry a handgun onto such places as the premises of a business that derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale of alcohol on premises, a correctional facility, hospital, an amusement park, a place of worship, or any meeting of a governmental entity,
Federal law already makes it a massive pain to own automatic firearms, there's no state left in the union where it's easy to lawfully own automatic weapons.
As for the Guinness, I've never had any trouble finding it on tap. It's crap from the bottle or can, so I've never looked for it.
Alright, now I'm really worried for the safety of our country. Perhaps Steve Case is secretly trying to take over the government from within.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
There's no magic filtre that's going to make the world go away, because people will find ways around it (either the spammer or pr0n surfer).
If this Garcia clown is too stupid to either not open mail from questionable sources, or to shut off javascript, what makes him think that he's clued enough to make up some sort of law about it.
Oh, and BTW, it's illegal to paint a duck in Cincinnati, Ohio too.
/*drunk.. fix later*/
I really do think that people like this (Rep. Garcia included) think that computers and the Internet are somehow magical, in that it's utterly impossible for the average human being to understand them, so they don't even make the effort to try. And don't overlook the religious right in all this. Although conservatives like to publicly justify their actions by saying their goal is to protect children, I've always believed this is just a smokescreen. (D) Garcia, Domingo I guess democrats are the conservative religious right now?
I wonder if the people of Texas ever heard of something called Market Economics. As time goes on, ISPs and OEMs will compete more and more based on how consumer friendly they are, and people who need censorware will be able to get it with their machine, ISP service, or favorite shrinkwrapped package; pretty much like they can today, except then they will have something that works.
Burn Hollywood Burn
This is also another strike against the possible inclusion of Linux preloads on machines, because last I knew there is no censoring software for Linux. Also, aren't Dell and Compaq, two of the biggest PC distributers around, both based in Texas? Since both are "PC Sellers", esp. Dell, who sells direct, won't that affect prices (system+Windows+Censorware) all around the country?
End of lesson. You may press the button.
ANYONE? what about those under 30 years old? Can a 5 year old do it? What about an 18 year old with no computer training?
Moral: Those who don't know how to use a computer have no business complaining about it.
Furthermore, I doubt that there is any good censorware for Linux platforms... This could be a real kick in the but for Server sales in texas, as Linux DOES qualify as an operating system. But then again, I don't remeber reading that the censorware provided had to support the provided OS... Get your free BeOS/QnX censorware with every purchase of Windows 2000/ME!
Ok, so when Microsoft decided to include a browser with its Operating system, the government said it was unfair business practice. But now a states government is requiring computer sellers to include a program with their product. I fail to grasp the logic here
"I dont agree with what you say, but ill die before i allow anyone to keep you from saying it"
I am Jack's complete lack of surprise. -Fight Club
I do get to Austin on occasion, and enjoy it very much. There's a lot to like about Texas to balance that which I dislike, but I don't let my Texas kin know that. I have to keep needling them or they will get an unrealistic picture of their home state.
OT -- my mom's favorite joke:
-Craig
--
Corollary to Clarke's Third Law: Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
What does he mean ``lowers Texas on the list of "states to move to?"''
WTF was Texas doing on such a list in the first place?
Everything's bigger in Texas - the hair, the drawl, the delusion that Texas isn't a state full of pig-ignorant rednecks with unjustified superiority complexes.
-Craig (formerly of Schulenburg, TX)
--
Corollary to Clarke's Third Law: Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
And i'm not talking about reproduction.
I would think IPChains would qualify as filtering software, right?
This means that every TalkingWhizKid sold in Texas will come with its own p0rn detector in case the child gets the idea to write an erotic novel on it...?
How about the Playstation2? In the near future I'll be able to surf the net with it.
Hopefully Garcia has some more clued in opponents.
I'm going to go back in my box and will think within the limits of my box: MS Sucks Linux Good I read too much Slashdot.
That this isn't much better than MS deciding that all Windows machines much have Internet Explorer preinstalled? I know I don't want the government forcing me to pay for software I don't want and will never use. It's bad enough that MS does it.
I'm going to go back in my box and will think within the limits of my box: MS Sucks Linux Good I read too much Slashdot.
Trolls throughout history:
Trolls throughout history:
Jonathan Swift
Thanks Texas. I'm too stupid to take care of myself, so I'm glad the government is doing it for me. I'm too stupid to install software, or even know whether or not I want to view porn. I should know better that consenting adults should NEVER, under ANY CIRCUMSTANCE want to view porn. I'm also too stupid to make my own investments, so would you please do it for me? While you're at it, would you also tell me what groceries I should buy to keep myself healthy, and tell me which is the best car to buy. I'm really pretty dense. While you're at it, could you please just raise my kids for me? I'm not really sure what's best for them. And, of course, the government is totally impartial and always knows best. Thank you Texas.
What if I WANT to view porn with my new computer, and can't figure out how to disable the damn filters? What if I buy a computer, and never connect to the Net? Why would I want that crap on there? What if I want to buy a machine and NOT have to pay for the damn filters?
[SpleenVentingMode ON]
I'm nearly 40 and I betcha there ain't but a small number of computer nerds on this entire planet who come even close to matching my computer skills, knowledge and experience. I've been customizing my own Linux kernel code since 1993, when I got my first SLS distribution by 2400 baud modem download from a BBS. I was there when Windows NT "Advanced Server" 3.1 was given to my employer for beta testing (so I guess I've hated NT for more years than just about anybody else around here). Hell, my first FORTRAN program that I ever wrote was on punch cards and ran on an IBM 370 mainframe!!! I'll be damned if some moron politician in my own state (I'm a Texan) tries to lump me in with his bunch of idiots just because my age. There ain't much in the computer world that this old geezer doesn't totally grok.
In my not-so-humble opinion, anyone who can't figure out how to download and install software on their machine has no business even touching a computer in the first place, and should be punished for even trying without getting adequate training first.
[SpleenVentingMode OFF]
I offer the following idea to correct this flaw in our system:
- Upon election each politician is fitted with a non-removable remotly controlled electronic dog collar.
- Upon reaching voting age each citizen is given a controller for said collars.
- When an official decides to sponsor a bill they must announce it publicly in a C-SPAN like forum at a predetermined time (i.e. not at 3:00 am).
- If a democratic 51% of the people think the bill is a bad idea the official receives a 40KV "correction" from their constituents.
Maybe this would curb their natural tendancy to arrogance. Right now it's just too easy for them to try and remove freedoms simply because they do not like something. It would also make C-SPAN alot more interesting.If Godzilla did not exist, man would have had to create him.
If Godzilla did not exist, man would have had to create him.
This lowers Texas on the list of "states to move to" when my lease runs out.
What do you mean? The bill hasn't passed.
I got my Linux laptop at System76.
Yeah, hah ha, it's real funny to make jokes at Texans' expense, but the simple fact of the matter is that there are over a DOZEN of us who live in this state who disagree with this legislation and have been doing our damndest to keep hold of our freedoms in the overwhelming face of the religious right, corporate doublespeak and BLATANT STUPIDITY.
The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
OK, it's funny that I just read this while taking a break from fixing a friend of mine's parents computer problems. I am so sick of people who are so lazy that they would rather claim that they're too old to learn than to actually TRY to fix the problem for themselves. It is really starting to bother me (expecially since I will turn 30 in a couple of years). I don't want people thinking that I am too old to learn soon because lazy morons like this won't get off their asses to read an instruction manual or README.
"C" is for cookie, that's good enough for me.
I can confirm the senators assertion. I turned 31 on the 10th and ever since I have been unable to operate a computer properly, nor am I able to log onto the internet without the help of the 28y.o. next door.
Some thing must be done in the next 3 years to fix this problem or I will be unable to use a computer at all!
Even after the kind hearted youngen' next door help me get on the net I still had problems.
I tried patching my FreeBSD box and all it kept saying was "Stop, Dave. I can feel my mind going Dave. Stop."
Something needs to be done about the sudden loss of computer knowledge at age 31! How will I remain employed when my boss figures out I have forgotten all my Sysadmin knowledge?! Oh wait, he is over thirty as well...
Never answer an anonymous letter. - Yogi Berra
Of course, censorware is bad...
However, my question is about all the other crap that the manufacturer installs on those machines they sell. My parents friends bought a PC from a big name outfit a couple of months ago. Not a bad system... good amounts of RAM and disk space... and a pretty good processor. Well, they were wondering why it didn't seem as fast as their PC's at work with comparable hardware setups... I checked their system resources after a reboot... 43% free! There was so much proprietary crap that was installed from the factory, that this machine was brought to its knees. I couldn't believe my eyes. I'm sure a lot of those programs were there to 'idiot-proof' those PC's and make supporting them easier... but honestly, that was insane. (a quick msconfig cleared a lot of that up...)
I don't think the manufacturers need to load ANY MORE software to outgoing systems, without explaining to customers exactly what is there, and how to remove it if they don't want it.
Jason
He's totally creeping out the Great One, eh...
Every unnecessary addition to preloaded systems just makes the system more expensive. This is the government taking more money out of our pockets, and putting it into the pockets of big companies, that step all over our rights, and whets more I haven't found a competent censorship software on the market yet!
TEN
Next bill to be considered in Texas: "Mandatory bullet-proof vests for all citizens residing in the state." When born, you're required by law to buy a vest. That's about how dumb this bill is.
Developers: We can use your help.
Of ANY semblance of freedom or liberty in this country, political or economic...
This law would be worset thng to happen to Texas since LBJ. It will seriously damage small businesses in Texas (who won't be able to negotiate elcheepo prices for the censorware). It will stifle an already struggling PC industry. It will make Microsoft a MONOPOLY in Texas.
What a scam. These cesnorware companies, whom all seem to have problems with telling the truth about what their software blocks (all seem to block critics of their software, and block political sites the censorware makers disagree with). Anyone remember that story last week about The Register being blocked by Cyber Patrol?
While I believe that this law won't last 10 minutes in Federal court, what is scary is that there are legislators who either don't KNOW that this is blatantly Unconstitutional, or worse, don't CARE and are going to try it anyway.
What I'd like to see is business grow some balls for once and play hardball with that government. If I were Dell or Compaq I'd be PUBLICALLY shoppig other states for a great deal to move....
One way to discourage bad government is to not feed it. Take your business elsewhere so that the economy flourishes where there are better laws and flounders where there are bad ones.
=== The price of freedom is eternal vigilance
This bill was prompted by SPAM to the author's, Garcia, AOL account popping up porn before being caught by the AOL parental controls.
Hmm...let's see here. AOL Parental Controls = censorware/filterware. Pornographic SPAM gets past AOL Parental controls. Therefore, censorware cannot filter or block all objectionable content. So he decides that what's needed is to mandate the use of software that in his personal experience does not work to fix a problem that was first illustrated to him by the failure of that same software.
Well...that explains quite a few things about Texas anyway...
Bill Gates would obviously have to buy a censorware company and include it in windows. In the process he would put all the other censorware companies out of business. Sounds like a positive result to me.
Second there would be an immediate need for an open source censorware initiative to protect children from the types of Internet site that would corrupt them. First on my list would be the Republican Party, "Christian" Coalition and Eagle Forum sites.
But open source censorware could be so much more than simple filtering, it could enforce a balanced view of the world.
Kids attempting to view the NRA homepage would get a split screen, NRA propaganda in one window and pictures of kids killed in gun accidents, cops being killed etc. in the other.
Anyone visitng the Pentagon would be shown their choice of either hippie videos or the UN report on the effect of sanctions on civilians in Iraq.
Anyone visitng the FBI would be shown balancing material from the RAND corporation on why the war on drugs is a collosal failure.
Anyone visitng the home page of Nike corporation would see a web cam of their sweatshops in the third world.
Anyone visitng the Whitehouse would see a Webcam of the chads being examined in Florida.
As you can see the opportunities for censorware are not limited to ultra-right texas loonies. The censorship/balance list would be drawn up by an impartial panel consisting of Noam Chomsky, Ralph Nader, Wendy McElroy, Nadine Strossen, Susie Bright, Larry Flint, the current Penthouse Pet of the Month and myself.
Any media whore wanting to write the filter as a hack could probably do the code in Perl in a couple of days using Apache as a proxy filter. The filter list could be compiled from suggestions to a Web site, Stalininst denunciation mode, anyone can denounce anyone for any reason and they are considered guilty with no chance of reprieve.
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
less /etc/hosts
porn.com 127.0.0.1
sex.com 127.0.0.1
nude.com 127.0.0.1
"You see, this is the highly advanced HOSTS system of filtering for Linux. This blocks out any internet servers with porn, sex, or nudity from forcing you to view their material. Any server that is identified to have porn sex or nudity is banned from your computer with the 127.0.0.1 ban signal."
It will work if all the 30 year olds in Texas are so stupid they can't even install CyberPatrol...
Hell, I think Windows even has support for a hosts file too...
Tim
Omnia vestra castrorum habetur nobis.
Why do any of you have a problem with this? Alot of you seemed to support V-Chips and shit so parents could control what their children see. This wouldn't block a damned thing out that you wanted to see, it would just give you the tools to try and protect your kids from the nasty disgusting shit (you know it's out there) floating around on the internet. If you don't want to use it, then don't. Stop complaining about giving people who would normally have no idea how to control their children's access online an opportunity to do it.
Ever gone to a site with porn banner ads and porn shit that pops up? I certainly have. Besides, I'm assuming this software is supposed to prevent kids that want to find porn from finding it anyway...that's why it's parental controls...
Too late! Under the recently passed CIPA (Child Internet Protection Act) headed by McCain, all computers in schools and libraries are required by law to have filtering technology if they want to recieve federal eRate funds.
And while the Dubya administartion is dangling this carrot on a stick, there are whispers on Capital Hill that Bush might be going through with a proposed idea to consilidate each eRate payment to a school or school district into one huge block grant as well, making the issue moot. But since there's nothing but vague, unclear positions being put forth ion this issue right now, schools and libraries are over a barrel.
So don't worry about the gov't susidising filter companies.. it's happening already!
--M.
First it was the "Labels on Recordings"; then the "V-Chip"; a bit later it is "Political Correctness"; now it is "censor-ware"... What the hell is going on in the Land of Freedom? You smoke a pack of Luck's and you can sue the company for making them because "Smoke is bad for you" - NO SHIT! Do you see many people staying to play play station when their room is a blaze? NO! Before long we will sue the alcohol companies, the adult entertainment industry, anyone who tells a joke or has some form of weapon will be immediately executed and then each of us will have a government sponsored chip placed in our head (so that they can keep track of our thoughts); where tunics and pray to a head of lettuce! Enough is enough. Lets stop "doing it for the Children" because as we have seen - they are doing a fairly good job shooting ups people and places before all these laws and requirements are in place...Let Freedom Ring. CHOICE is what this is all about.
Get this: a four kilobyte program, that checks every internet transaction, and then DOES NOTHING ABOUT IT. The law does not stipulate what comprises censorware. Make it free, and be done with the whole thing.
-- Nerds on toast in the new millenium
I just called my state reps and senators (I live in Austin), and the person I spoke with said that she had recieved quite a few calls on this bill, and that, from what she had heard around the capitol, it is quite unlikely to pass. It's too bad pieces of legislation like this actaully make it this far.
If you live in Texas and you want to call your reps, go to this right here and it will give you the phone numbers of your reps by zip code. Your rep will have a local (district) number for you to call.
Brant
Brant
Argle. Bargle.
Yes! It could work exactly like the law pertaining to the US Postal Service -- you cannot send _unsolicited_ matter to anyone if it is obscene, etc. You _can_ send that stuff if the recipient asked for it (either explicitely or by actively engaging in commerce - order a dirty video, you're a legal target for postal sex spam).
BTW -- the reason this law exists is because the US Postal System had the _exact_ same problem the Internet has now with unsolicited sex spam. Believe it or not.
The dictionary definition of indecent is:
adj.
Offensive to good taste; unseemly.
Offensive to public moral values; immodest
source: dictionary.com
It specifies indecent content, that means anything that is offensive to good taste or can be termed immodest. Funnily enough, the term immodest means:
"Not properly restrained in expression"
source: dictionary.com
So technically, what the law is asking for is a piece of software which, by its very definition, violates the First Amendment. Constitutional lawyers will have a field day with this one.
If push came to shove with retailers, you can say that you are already supplying the filtering software if you supply IE. It has it's own content advisory facility. It's crap, but the law doesn't specify that it has to do it well, it just has to be supplied.
I would bet my life savings that this guy Garcia has been spammed becuase he visited a load of borderline illegal Japanese porn sites and he didn't want his wife/kids to know. Just a case of a handjerk reaction becoming a kneejerk reaction.
You call me a pedant? I prefer the term "correct"
Well it would affect a few, but not many. Every single Microsoft Operating System comes with Internet Explorer bundled in. The DOJ has established that.
Every version of Internet Explorer comes with a tool called the "content advisor". You can turn this filter on, by clicking one, yes count it one button. You choose what you want to see on the Internet and what sites are appropriate. Sure it blocks everything that isn't rated, but obviously this senator doesn't mind over-blocking. Unix and it's variants are extremely good at blocking sites, so I guess the question remaining is whether or not Mac's come bundled with IE.
Bringing up another question. If he's using AOL. And we all know that AOL has blocking built in, and AOL is based on IE, and IE has blocking built in. How simple exactly does he want it?
Child Protective Services accompanied by SWAT go door to door checking to see if all the parental controls are in place. V-Chip not properly programmed. Go to Jail. Censorware not installed on the computer. Go to Jail. Playboys not properly locked up. Go to Jail. Guns and ammunition not properly stored. Oh wait, that's probably OK.
I am a single parent and my approach has always been anti-censorship. I let my son watch Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction when he was twelve. The result, he joined the drama club and has developed a disdain for 'special effects' movies. My daughter sees porn on the Internet. The result, she understands that there are freaks out there who would use her like a piece of tissue. Little girls often run into porn simply by placing their name between www and com. My daughter's name is Jenna, try it.
My children are straight A students at the top of their class. They are studious, intelligent and polite. Hiding them from reality does not work.
Censorship is misguided and counterproductive. Forced censorship is the first step to a totalitarian state a short hop away from starting massive wars and committing genocide.
The censors can just shut the fuck up and go away, we don't need you. They should just go home and hit themsleves on the head with their bibles until they come to their senses.
(OOOh I am so very angry.)
I've been to many states, and I've met idiots in all of them. The fact this bill got introduced in Texas has little to do with Texas. Every state is vulnerable to having this type of bill introduced. Highlighting these bills and defeating them should be our focus. Not state bashing.
This is hilarious. Generally, censorship is defended with "we have to protect our children" rhetoric. This is the first time that I have ever seen "we have to protect our adults" rhetoric to do the same thing.
-Keslin, the naked nerd girl
-Keslin, the naked nerd girl
Again, I think you missed the point here that this bill really has no chance of passing. Computer manufacturers have no desire to do this, and Dell being the biggest company outside of Austin, there isn't much chance this will pass.
Really, all that Dell needs to do is send a couple of 1Ghz laptops to the representatives, and this bill will be out the door.
Remember, everything's bigger in Texas.
As I've mentioned in the past, I use censorware at home to protect my children when I'm at work. However, I think the installation of such software should be up to the individual computer owner.
I find this especially disturbing since it amounts to government subsidation of the censoring industry. Censorware is not perfect, and without the impetus of competition, there is no drive for manufacturers to improve their product. Rather than having lawmakers force people to use their product, censorware makers should strive to make their product most appealing to concerned parents such as myself.
While I would encourage all parents to not give their children unrestricted and unsupervised Internet access, laws like this one are far too broad to be fair.
"The night is long that never finds the day." -- William Shakespeare
Of course, you could require instead that all computers shipped with a WEB BROWSER or HTML-ENABLED MAIL CLIENT also ship with Javascript and Active-X disabled. That eliminates pop-ups and a whole host of other things too, while not costing a cent. But that must be too much effort for someone dumb enough to think that censorware will accomplish anything useful (like, what's the first thing a spammer is going to do before sending out spams... check to see if the web site is on the common block lists, and if so, get a new domain! ).
If you were looking for proof that the average voter is dumb enough to vote for a moron, you've got it. <sarcasm> I guess that's what they mean by "representative democracy". </sarcasm>
--
spam spam spam spam spam spam
No one expects the Spammish Repetition!
Scientists restrict study to entire physical universe; creationist
So manditory internet filter software to protect the children... from the people who oppose gun saftey locks. GREAT!!! Lets chalk one more up for the Great state of texas. DUHHHUHHH
Well, they will include censorware stuff. That's nasty, of course. Well, but they can't forbid me from wiping all that crap, or installing Linux over it, right? Besides, I bet just anybody can get a Win95/98 CD without problems... It's as simple for a newbie as calling " the one who spends all the day on the computer" and asking him/her nicely to install a fresh OS without any stuff like that
What if a company decides to market PC's that feature Linux instead of that other 'life on the edge of a crash' OS? Do censorware packages exist for Linux (I don't imagine how they could)? If this bill passes, would it mean that companies would be breaking to law if they sold PC's with *nix?
Why bother.
Don't worry this won't pass. So many flagrant bills get filed each session here it makes the federal Congress look like a well run. Texas is too pro-business for this type of legislation to pass. Each session someone from Houston files a bill which will make the the State of Texas take over the City of Austin- make it similar to Washington D.C. Did you know its illegal to milk someone else's cow in Texas?
I have a right to free speech. The government can't force me to say anything. Putting something on a hard drive is similar to saying it, except that instead of speak > /dev/world, it's speak > /dev/hda. So can a government force me to express myself on a hard drive? Even worse, can a goverment make me pay money to express myself (I assume Texas isn't going to give away free censorware)?
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
This hyar is crazy! Fry mah hide! Does this hyar guy knows thet he is jest axin' fo' trouble. ah doesn't unnerstan' whuffo' he reckons Texans is so stoopid. ah mean ah finished th' 10th grade! An' now cleanin' up manure fum rodeos may not be th' bess job in th' wo'ld, but it's a livin'! Fry mah hide!! Fry mah hide!
=========================
=========================
Mams for me and mams for you!
If installing censorware on a pc is too difficult for anyone over 30, maybe people over 30 just shouldn't be allowed to buy a pc, rather than forcing everyone to put up with censorware.
After all, you can't see some movies until you're a certain age... can't drive until another age... can't buy alcohol until you're 21. Isn't the reason we use for this simply that they can't handle it yet? The same would apply to buying a pc once you reach 30. If you can't handle it, you can't buy it!
Now, once you reach 30, you can't buy a pc.
I can just picture all the middle-aged execs hanging around outside of Best Buys everywhere. "Hey, kid. C'mere. Here's some money. Can I get you to go inside and buy me a pc?"
Apparently, the HB1295 is stuck in Business and Commerce committee. Rep. Garcia is not a member of the Business and Commerce Committee. I spoke with the clerk of the committee and she says that the bill is not calendared for at least two weeks. Some public testimony was taken on it yesterday, but she couldn't say who spoke or what they said. Sounds to me like a bill that might never make it out of committee.
------- Would you say I have a plethora of friends?
Just another example of how the good ol' USA is already more facist than many of the countries they so piously complain about.
Unless you want to buy a gun, the US governemnt is quite happy to tell you what to say and think.
The US has more people in jail, per capita, than China! US high schools often demand more conformity from their students than many dictatorships.
The real problem is too many people think the government should try to cure everything, they WANT to be treated like children and abdicate the personal responsability for their own actions to the government.
Did you know that those warning labels on poisonous and explosives (eg an aerosol spray can) were orginally developed to protect children? It used to be assumed that adults would know these things, and if they didn't tuff luck.
Anarchists never rule
I use it in the corporate environment to keep nasty applications (Real Player) from updating themselves every single minute:
acl banned_sites dstdomain "/usr/local/squid/etc/banned_domains.txt"
[...]
http_access deny banned_sites
Then you just get something to keep your file up to date, and you've got dynamically filtering censorware.
Not that I'm saying it's the right thing to do, but if this is an attempt to keep Linux distributors from selling their products in Texas, it's a poor one.
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-- The world is watching America, and America is watching TV.
Be it enacted by (insert lawmaking body here) that:
Section 1: Potential buyers of computers must pass a competency exam before the purchase of said computer. This exam shall cover topics independent of the operating system installed.
Section 2: Before or at 30 days after the date of sale, the customer must demonstrate compentency in whatever operating system is installed on purchased computer.
Section 3: Failure of the exam described in Section 1 will deny the customer the ability to purchase said computer. Failure of the exam described in Section 2 will void any obligation of the vendor to provide technical support and said customer forfeits any right to file civil suits of any nature regarding said computer. Said customer also forfeits any right to lobby any lawmaker regarding computers.
Section 4: Persons may retake an exam they have failed not less than 1 week after the failed test.
Section 5: The exams described in section 1 and 2 shall be approved by the Educational Testing Service.
"installing the software over the net is too difficult for anyone over 30 years old to install."
I'm absolutely convinced that Texas is full of stupid people. And, of course, we have one in the white house....
They, i think, shouldn't do that or sneak it in before you buy a computer, i know that there are some ppl out there that would hate censorware on their computer. They should do away with that idea and do something like more helpful, like one guy said, something that will do your taxes.
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