Slashdot Mirror


Managing Einsteins

In many workplaces, especially high-tech ones, managers and those they manage are operating on parallel tracks, with different sets of motivations, expectations and rewards. How to keep tech workers happy, given that they likely don't want the same things as their bosses, and certainly would choose different ways to achieve them? The long-suffering Jim Richards submitted this review of Managing Einsteins, a book which attempts to inject some sanity into the situation by clueing managers in on what it is their programmers and other tech workers might actually want in a workplace. Read on for his review. Managing Einsteins: Leading High-Tech Workers in the Digital Age author Dr. John M. Ivancevich and Dr. Thomas N. Duening pages 249 publisher McGraw-Hill rating 7 reviewer grumpy ISBN 0-07-137500-7 summary Good information for managers of IT workers

This book doesn't use terms like "nerd" or "geek" to describe IT workers: the authors hold that the stereotype of pocket protectors and coke-bottle glasses just doesn't fit any more. This is a book written for managers, and so the terminology and style (almost) always refers to Einsteins as "your workers," to the point that with the summary at the end states:

Referring to super-intelligent, curious, passionate, often introverted, talented individuals as "geeks" is outdated. Although Einsteins can call colleagues "geeks," it is not appropriate or cool for non-Einsteins to refer to computer, technology, systems or software geniuses as geeks. (page 217)

These are the difficult to work with, yet life-saving employees who can come up with answers when most people don't understand the question.

Several themes run through the book, so it can be summarised in a few simple statements. Many of which (to Einsteins) may seem pretty obvious. The book is written by "Management Professionals," though, so there's hope that managers may actually accept some of its wisdom.

The book is divided into three parts:

  1. Realities of the Twenty-First Century - a brief summary covers the basic themes of the book and introduces the concept of an Einstein, the nature of Einsteins and how they fit into the work environment and the world.

  2. Managing Einsteins: Challenges and Actions - this section, the bulk of the book, covers everything from recruiting Einsteins through to managing them on a daily basis, by paying attention to communication, teams and tribes, remuneration, etiquette and discipline.

  3. Building for the Future - includes humour and fun at work, telecommuting and a final summary.

The book describes IT workers as highly motivated, intelligent (often more intelligent than their managers), introverted, tribal and independent.

The mains themes throughout the book are:

  • Managers should be honest with their workers about the company's successes and failures
  • The point of management is to guide and suggest not to be autocratic (the metaphor of herding cats was used to illustrate this)
  • Let the Einsteins have freedom in work environment (location - there is a whole chapter on telecommuting, hours and style)
  • Einsteins are project-focused, not job-focused
  • They value training and education highly
  • They require a stimulating and fun work place.

The issue of remuneration is covered -- and expanded to include the idea that Einsteins are not solely motivated by money (as sales people may be), and that other considerations should be taken into account (such as training, location, work conditions). Also that the traditional notion of promotion does not always work. An Einstein may not want to become a team leader, or move any higher in the management hierarchy. A manager should be wary of their Einsteins burning out, a temporary demotion or other measure may be in order to take the stress off an Einstein for a while.

The book includes short examples and case studies from various workplaces, and excerpts from newspapers and trade journals to help illustrate points. There are also highlighted points categorised as "Influence Tips," "Black Holes" and "Einstein Wisdom." which emphasise important things, such as:

Managers should be very cautious not to introduce projects that have a low likelihood of getting started. Einsteins abhor routine and crave novel projects. But they abhor being misled and crave honest leadership all the more. In staff meetings, when managers talk about upcoming projects, they should attach a probability of launch along with the projected launch date. The common term for this is "managing expectations." (page 70)

One good description of the nature of how Einsteins work is the concept of flow.

Flow is reported by individuals as a satisfying state they reach when they are completely absorbed in challenging yet achievable projects. (page 54)

Flow is an important concept for managers to understand. Once an Einstein starts a project, and becomes fully involved, there is nothing worse than being pulled off to attend a sales meeting, or other time consuming function. It interrupts the flow.

One pitfall: the book seems to have been started before the tech slump of 2000-2001 really started to dig in. So the book wavers between promoting how IT workers are highly mobile, but also that the job market is not that strong.

The other major shortcoming is the chapter on Etiquette and Manners. Now, I can understand the mannerisms and habits of Einsteins can be a little unpleasant at times, but it begs the question, why would a manager take one of these people out to a client dinner in the first place? If the client needs to meet the tech people to be convinced that a company can do the job, why not at the place of work? Or, take an Einstein who you know you can trust to behave and present well.

As this is the only book at the moment that deals directly with managing this class of workers, also get your manager to read Jon Katz's Geeks. Managing people is no longer about direct, micro-management or process line working. The nature of work has changed with the influence of new technology and so a new way of managing people should also be introduced. These books together will help management, or anyone, understand the mind set and working modes of IT workers.

You can purchase Managing Einsteins from bn.com. Want to see your own review here? Just read the book review guidelines, then use Slashdot's handy submission form.

334 comments

  1. Ummm... by nomadic · · Score: 4, Funny

    Alright, I know tech workers tend to have absurdly high opinions of themselves, especially on slashdot, but EINSTEINS? That's going a bit far, don't you think?

    1. Re:Ummm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      No, the book is specifically about managing Einsteins. The decendants of the great physicist have spread throughout the world and are working in most major corporations. Unfortunately, they are notoriously difficult to manage, and this book aims to rectify that.

      Or something.

    2. Re:Ummm... by Noctivago · · Score: 4, Funny

      No kidding, i work with techs all day long and there are no einsteins that i can see. When a sysadmin is asking you what "ping" means, then i'm afraid the boundaries of astrophysics are not even within sight.

      --
      Monkeys and Bears...
    3. Re:Ummm... by Reality+Master+101 · · Score: 5, Funny

      I think he means that techs are Einsteins "relative" to the management.

      (sorry)

      --
      Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
    4. Re:Ummm... by einstein · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yes, and am I ever thankful!
      ---

    5. Re:Ummm... by markmoss · · Score: 5, Funny

      I think he means that techs are Einsteins "relative" to the management.

      My dog is an Einstein relative to the management...

    6. Re:Ummm... by MisterBlister · · Score: 1, Flamebait
      Alright, I know tech workers tend to have absurdly high opinions of themselves, especially on slashdot, but EINSTEINS? That's going a bit far, don't you think?

      Yes. In my 8 years of experience as a programmer the vast majority of people in high tech (especially programmers and IT people) seem to be functionally retarded. And even the best of the best (who are doing tech work professionally) are far from Einsteins.

    7. Re:Ummm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it doesn't matter anymore. in the "new economy" thre are more techs than there are tech jobs. you do what your managmeent says, how they say it and when they say it and deal with the things you don't like -- or you can look forward to living on the street. The age of making your employees content and happy so they'll stay is over. It's back to the normal century-long "work here out of fear -- not out of pleasure"

    8. Re:Ummm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Score 5 insightful? Are you MAD MAD MAD?

    9. Re:Ummm... by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 1
      asking you what "ping" means

      I think it's from that song...Ping, a note preceding Pong, and that brings us back more dough dough dough dough....

    10. Re:Ummm... by infodude · · Score: 1

      Perhaps there are many more Einsteins than you think, but they're not properly managed, so don't get the cigar.

      --
      -- Only information exists, the rest is just smoke and mirrors.
    11. Re:Ummm... by CRiMSON · · Score: 1

      What a pile of rubish.

      90% of IT people think they are waaaayyy more important than they actually are.

      Bitching "Oh no, I need to deasl with this user today"

      Duhhh it's your fscking job!!! GEt over yourself and your ego.

      --
      oogly boogly!
    12. Re:Ummm... by Tackhead · · Score: 4, Funny
      > No kidding, i work with techs all day long and there are no einsteins that i can see. When a sysadmin is asking you what "ping" means, then i'm afraid the boundaries of astrophysics are not even within sight.

      In keeping with the Einstein / astrophysics thread, "your admin is so far beyond clueless that he couldn't find clueless with very-long-baseline interferometry" :)

    13. Re:Ummm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course, I would have to retort with "that depends".

      I get chuckles when I talk to our support staff and they don't know what telnet is. But, sometimes our support staff is vastly better with customer support (read: giving the warm and fuzzies to our customers). I think they're vastly more important in that respect.

      So if you're saying that the sysadmin who didn't know what "ping" means should have, then yes, I'd enjoy a laugh with you. But if that sysadmin is stronger in other areas, than don't jew the sysadmin around like that. That's not cool. Dork.

    14. Re:Ummm... by aallan · · Score: 2

      In keeping with the Einstein / astrophysics thread, "your admin is so far beyond clueless that he couldn't find clueless with very-long-baseline interferometry"

      Optical or radio interferometry? Make a difference... ;)

      Al.
      --
      The Daily ACK - Eclectic posts by yet another hacker
    15. Re:Ummm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Words like "jew" as a verb aren't cool either. Dork.

    16. Re:Ummm... by SlowMovingTarget · · Score: 1

      When a sysadmin is asking you what "ping" means

      You dutifully explained to this person that a ping is an active sonar pulse used to detect submarines and that it had something to do with tunneling protocols in World War II... right?

    17. Re:Ummm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Einstein wasn't all that smart. He's just famous as "the smartest guy" because he was the smartest jew.

    18. Re:Ummm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The real Einstein married his cousin, and they didn't have kids. And if they did, logic dictates that their inbred offspring would not be geniuses like their father. Their descendents would more likely be rednecks appearing on the Jerry Springer show.

    19. Re:Ummm... by flibuste · · Score: 1

      It is EXACTLY that ! I have to add that they upgraded WWII sonars since, with long range detection, parametric arrays and stuff. I think this generation of sonars are called "Pong"

    20. Re:Ummm... by Carnivorous+Carrot · · Score: 1

      > Alright, I know tech workers tend to have
      > absurdly high opinions of themselves, especially
      > on slashdot, but EINSTEINS? That's going a bit
      > far, don't you think?

      Worse, it's egos of "Einsteins", plural, per worker.

      --
      "Has [being a kidnapped teenage girl, raped repeatedly for months] changed you?" - Katie Couric to Elizabeth Smart
    21. Re:Ummm... by Slurm-V · · Score: 1

      Nah - ping was the first computer game. One player only. You'd aim at another computer, take a shot, and if the shot got returned, you lost and the game was over. It never really took off until the sequel, pong, introduced the two player option.

      --
      Of course it's going off the rails. How else is it ever going to fly?
    22. Re:Ummm... by SlowMovingTarget · · Score: 1

      this generation of sonars are called "Pong"

      LOL... That's what you get when you let the Atari generation name military technology.

    23. Re:Ummm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      A person who manages MicroSoft servers should _never_ be confused with a sysadmin, no matter what the MCSE books say.

    24. Re:Ummm... by rusty+spoon · · Score: 1

      "He was so learned that he could name a horse in 9 languages; so ignorant that he bought a cow to ride on" Your dog or your management?

    25. Re:Ummm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      The beginning of Chapter 1 of Managing Einsteins, if I had written it:
      If your system administrator ever, at any point, asks what "ping" means, then you must fire him immediately.
    26. Re:Ummm... by Lurgen · · Score: 1

      I have a garden gnome that compares favourably to some management...

      I'm interested in this book simply because it's the first time I've seen management (or a management consultant) acknowledge that "special" category of tech - the ones who understand the incomprehensible.

      Unfortunately, there seems to be a drastic shortage of these Einsteins. Most of the techs working around me struggle with basic concepts like plugging the things in.

    27. Re:Ummm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      has anyone read "The Dilbert Principle"... i think the Einsteins manage the managers.

      ------------
      "Has anyone told him his 'laptop' is an Etch-A-Sketch?"

  2. What about the sequel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny
    I'm waiting for the sequel:
    "Managing Programmers who Think They're Einsteins
    (but who are really idiots)"
    1. Re:What about the sequel? by jhines0042 · · Score: 2

      Or better yet:

      "Managing Programmers for Dummies"

      --
      42 - So long and thanks for all the fish.
    2. Re:What about the sequel? by happyclam · · Score: 1

      Or how about

      "Being managed by a dolt who thinks he's an Einstein"

      Oh, wait, sorry... that would be the whole history of Dilbert strips, wouldn't it?

      --
      He looked at me and said, "Kid, we don't like your kind, and we're gonna send your fingerprints off to Washington."
    3. Re:What about the sequel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Um, no. I don't think so, fool.

    4. Re:What about the sequel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are a fucktard. Look at the original post - it was funny. Now look at yours - it was not funny. Neither was insightful, interesting or at all relelvant.

      Do the world a favour - next time you think of opening your mouth with the intention of saying something vaguely amusing, just shut the fuck up. Thanks.

    5. Re:What about the sequel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think he means
      "Managing Dummie Programmers for Dummies"
      (sp on purpose)

    6. Re:What about the sequel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is that supposed to be funny?

    7. Re:What about the sequel? by jon+doh! · · Score: 1

      "Managing Dummies for Dummies"

    8. Re:What about the sequel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do I detect a slight whiff of anger in the air?

    9. Re:What about the sequel? by rusty+spoon · · Score: 1

      ..and for the geeks amongst us "Feeding pigeons: How to get on with managers"

    10. Re:What about the sequel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That should be a short book.

      If they are really idiots, there is only one solution - fire them.

      If you actually need them sufficiently to want to know how to manage them, they probably aren't idiots.

    11. Re:What about the sequel? by biobogonics · · Score: 1


      I'm waiting for the sequel:

      "Managing Programmers who Think They're Einsteins
      (but who are really idiots)"


      It's already out, it's called "Secrets of Herding Cats" by EDS.

    12. Re:What about the sequel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shut your fucking hole, you puke!

  3. Makes sense by Dead+Penis+Bird · · Score: 2, Interesting

    When dealing with highly intelligent employees, it's counter-productive to put them on a regimented schedule, in a cramped cube and expect them to turn out quality work.

    Though I'm not an "Einsein" in the typical sense used in the review, I find that a lot of the ideas presented can apply to people in my field of accounting. It's another highly specialized field requiring a certain type of worker, and a quirky lot at that.

    --

    If I weren't nailed to the penis, I'd be pushing up the daisies!

    1. Re:Makes sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or 5 feet from a constantly used copier, or near a loud computer room door that is constantly used (bang!), or near where people like to congregate.

      Sometimes I hate my job.

      Even better is when management decides to use the space outside my cubicle as temporary storage for new equipment. (like 20 new in-the-box computers and monitors.)

    2. Re:Makes sense by Ummon_i · · Score: 1

      Hell I call that new toys for xmas

  4. Way offtopic.... by L-Wave · · Score: 2, Funny

    But could you imagine managing a bunch of cloned einsteins?? This could be in interesting project, perhaps collectivly the beowolf cluster of einsteins could figure out many of the worlds perplexing questions =) anyways, thats my random thought for the day...

    --
    I SURVIVED THE GREAT SLASHDOT BLACKOUT OF 2002!
    1. Re:Way offtopic.... by bemis · · Score: 1

      I do believe that this is the first time in almost 2 years that I've seen a "can you imagine a beowulf cluster of these babys" post that wasn't modded down to "-1" (yet) ... congratulations.

      bemis
      -his self-image seemed somehow .. untainted by reality...

    2. Re:Way offtopic.... by L-Wave · · Score: 1

      The intent of my post was not to be about "beowolf clusters" but rather to entice the reader into thinking about many cloned einsteins solving many unanswered questions about the universe. the beowolf cluster analogy just seemed appropriate for the site, and an appropriate slang term for a group of items(people) processing data(theories). Sorry about the mis-communication.

      --
      I SURVIVED THE GREAT SLASHDOT BLACKOUT OF 2002!
    3. Re:Way offtopic.... by bemis · · Score: 1

      The intent of my post was not to be about "beowolf clusters" but rather to entice the reader into thinking about many cloned einsteins solving many unanswered questions about the universe. the beowolf cluster analogy just seemed appropriate for the site, and an appropriate slang term for a group of items(people) processing data(theories). Sorry about the mis-communication.

      indeed. the amusement was there nonetheless ... and while yes a group of cloned "geniuses" (be they einstein, newton or hawking or any other...) is an interesting thought, i'm inclined to believe that they would likely find themselves perplexed by the same issues as their original counterparts, and (unless if you made their upbringing and educations completely different) unable to bounce ideas off one another ... and thus the question is begged as to whether the "genius" is a product of genetics, environment, education, or something else entirely ...

      okay ... this has taken *way* too many brain-ticks away from work ...

      -bemis-
      ...so once when I was six I did ... that was the day of my first headache

  5. Try to get your PHB to read this by egileye · · Score: 1

    The problem with this book could be trying to get your PHB to actually read it. Acknowledge that the people that work for him/her are actually smarter than them? Much less "Einsteins"? I can't see it.

    1. Re:Try to get your PHB to read this by banda · · Score: 3, Funny

      You've hit the nail on the head.
      My boss, for instance, really believes that he is "solving the problems when others don't understand the question." In reality, he is often the problem that must be solved by his subordinates. He would never believe that he is not part of the "engine of change." He's really more like the "wheel chocks of ignorance."

    2. Re:Try to get your PHB to read this by pauldy · · Score: 1

      Yea and just wait untill the 4 dummies book comes out. "Managing Einsteins for Dummies" I can see managers buying those up by the pallet.

  6. 4 Posts in one! by dmorin · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Moderate at will.
    1. Recruit Einsteins? How old is this book? Who the hell is recruiting anybody anymore? :)
    2. Exactly how much of a cocky bastard does it make me if I tell my boss we should get a copy of this book?
    3. Didn't seebs write something about managing hackers (and/or herding cats) that has much the same advice, has been around longer, and is more "truer to the cause" since it was written by one of us instead of a bunch of management professionals who claim to understand us?
    4. Is there a chapter about how we still want beanbag chairs and free soda?
    1. Re:4 Posts in one! by kefoo · · Score: 0

      Exactly how much of a cocky bastard does it make me if I tell my boss we should get a copy of this book?

      In my experience you have about a 50/50 chance of getting smacked. I've had some bosses who were (at least somewhat) receptive to this sort of thing, and some who think they can do no wrong.

    2. Re:4 Posts in one! by jlower · · Score: 1

      Who the hell is recruiting anybody anymore?

      We are! There are still lots of good jobs that demand very specialized or obscure knowledge. If you have that kind of experience you can expect to be recruited agressively.

      We could use a couple more developers *right now* but they just aren't available. Our choices are to use contractors (which we are doing) or spend 6 months or more training someone in-house before they even begin to be productive.

    3. Re:4 Posts in one! by Suidae · · Score: 2

      Is there a chapter about how we still want beanbag chairs and free soda?

      I hope so, I won't work anywhere that doesn't have free soda.

    4. Re:4 Posts in one! by Binky+The+Oracle · · Score: 2

      Didn't seebs write something about managing hackers (and/or herding cats) that has much the same advice, has been around longer, and is more "truer to the cause" since it was written by one of us instead of a bunch of management professionals who claim to understand us?

      Perhaps the Seebs book is "truer to the cause" (I haven't read it, so I can't comment), but assuming that the majority of this new book is accurate (and the review makes it look pretty good), wouldn't you rather have a PHB read a book from a source they trust?

      A book written about a geek by a geek will be suspect in management's eyes... a book written about a geek by a management professional will have much greater credibility.

      --

      Slashdot comments... splitting hairs since 1997.

    5. Re:4 Posts in one! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe slashcode could add a button like "Anonymously Mail This Article->" so we can share the knowledge with management (who dont read slashdot) without looking like a cocky bastard.

    6. Re:4 Posts in one! by Skirwan · · Score: 3, Funny
      Exactly how much of a cocky bastard does it make me if I tell my boss we should get a copy of this book?
      Seven. It makes you a cocky bastard to the amount of seven. (Note this is on the Williams-Kerner Normalized Cocky Bastard Scale (WKNCS) , not the Stanford Centered Cockiness Measure (SCCM))
      Is there a chapter about how we still want beanbag chairs and free soda?
      No, but there is a chapter about how we will want a chapter about still wanting beanbag chairs and free soda. And hammocks. I could really go for a hammock.

      --
      Damn the Emperor!
    7. Re:4 Posts in one! by dmorin · · Score: 1

      You'd get the +1 funny from me if I could moderate in the same discussion I posted, dude. :) :) :)

    8. Re:4 Posts in one! by TheMidget · · Score: 1
      Management will still know the Slashdot readers in its team. They are the ones who quickly close those windows with that weird shade of green when you walk into their office. And those who have these funny conversations at lunch. So it won't be overly hard to tell where that inciteful piece of advice came from.

      Or maybe, it was just the Midget (tm) trying to frame those poor Slashdotters?

    9. Re:4 Posts in one! by alexjp · · Score: 1
      Shamelessly offtopic:

      Some great hammocks for sale here.

      I've actually been to their store in Boulder CO; they're really comfortable. Much better than those thick-roped ones everyone seems to get. No more numb legs.

    10. Re:4 Posts in one! by sultanoslack · · Score: 1
      • There are certainly still jobs out there. The problem with the tech job market is that three years ago it was saturated by people who probably couldn't write HTML for prize money, let alone actually code any real projects or admin anything. If you're a competent, flexible programmer or admin, you might have to look for a job a bit longer than in 1999, but they're out there.
      • Well, I've been thinking about sending one to my ex-boss. Actually, based on my bosses reaction to my quitting, he was quite sad to see me go. I think if some things had been more obvious to him during my tenure that I might have stayed around. They stuff on here really gets at a lot of my gripes. Having the cool projects dropped so that I could fix things that other people messed up was never fun, but always seemed to happen. I was hired as a developer, but pretty much did nothing but system administration (which I have experience in, but hate). I felt like all of my time was sucked into meetings and showing everyone else how to do their jobs that my flow never even got started. Ugh.
      • Haven't read either of these books, but if I was going to send this to my boss, I would prefer it to be in his language, not mine.
      • Some of those things can be nice (especially free soda), but also I sometimes get annoyed when people try to make the workplace too fun. Frisbee time guys! No thanks, I'd rather not play frisbee and go home 20 minutes earlier. I would much rather have interesting work than play time in the middle of the day to try to make me forget how much my work actually sucks.
    11. Re:4 Posts in one! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amen to that last point. Where I worked last, some
      of the young guys would play video games or foosball
      2 or 3 times a day. Try programming during *that*! I'd rather get the stuff done and go home to my really fun activities.

    12. Re:4 Posts in one! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jesus christ, what kind of sick shit are you up to at home!? "Really fun" indeed.

  7. What tech workers want? by angst7 · · Score: 1

    Here are my current list of demands for a livable tech working environment:

    1. Climbing Wall
    2. Chalk Bag
    3. Pop Tarts
    4. Wearable PC
    5. Free tickets to Star Wars movies.

    Don't need much else, thanks.

    -------
    Jedimom.com, ph-balanced, for women.

    --
    StrategyTalk.com, PC Game Forums
    1. Re:What tech workers want? by carm$y$ · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Wake up, 1999 was over two years ago; nowdays you'll get a cubicle.

      --
      -- No sig today
    2. Re:What tech workers want? by southpolesammy · · Score: 1

      Stealing unashamedly from Dilbert:

      "People may think that IT is built on silicon and transistors, but foam rubber and plastic toys are equally important."

      --
      Rule #1 -- Politics always trumps technology.
    3. Re:What tech workers want? by carm$y$ · · Score: 1

      Ok, let me rephrase that: "1999 ended more than two years ago".

      --
      -- No sig today
    4. Re:What tech workers want? by pokeyburro · · Score: 1

      Great list! But you forgot a few:

      - T1 link
      - choice of OS to develop in
      - bookshelf (I can supply the books)
      - marker board
      - no #!$@ dress code

      Not required, but definitely appreciated:
      - microwave
      - TV with VCR
      - a good chair, dammit!
      - sofa for naps
      - massage therapist

      --
      Lately democracy seems to be based on the skybox, the Happy Meal box, the X-box, and the idiot box.
    5. Re:What tech workers want? by aminorex · · Score: 2

      Maybe *you* will, but I telecommute or I don't
      take the job. Skills and talents determine
      the perks you can demand.

      --
      -I like my women like I like my tea: green-
    6. Re:What tech workers want? by carm$y$ · · Score: 1

      I personally *hate* working from home. This, and... who's going for a beer with the guys afterwards? ;)

      --
      -- No sig today
    7. Re:What tech workers want? by David+Kennedy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Maybe I'm weird. I don't want toys. My list:
      1) Upper quartile pay for my work location and expertise.
      2) Pension scheme.
      3) Health insurance.
      4) Bonuses/options.
      5) No dress code.
      6) Novel and interesting work domain.
      7) Access to powerful development and test machines.
      8) Choice of technologies for projects.

    8. Re:What tech workers want? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Afraid of the daystar? Will it melt your pale skin? Will direct human interaction result in such anxiety that you will be driven to hide under furniture?

    9. Re:What tech workers want? by Teethgrinder · · Score: 2, Funny

      I don't want toys.

      Maybe it's me but I consider "powerful development and test machines" to be toys. :)

    10. Re:What tech workers want? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Yours is the first post I have seen that has made any reasonable sense so far in this discussion. The childishness and immaturity of the 'geeks', with their silly, frivolous demands really gets my goat.

      'Tis a breath of fresh air to see a comment that is actually Insightful and Interesting on this message board.

  8. Einsteins defined by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    sure... each slashdotter is going have a project on par with a nuclear physisist and impliment an atomic bomb or equivalent project that can level all of creation.

    1. Re:Einsteins defined by jc42 · · Score: 5, Funny

      > sure... each slashdotter is going have a project on par with a nuclear physisist ...

      Well, there was the new order-N sort algorithm that was described recently.

      It was based on the concept of a quantum computer. The idea was that in to sort N items, you use quantum indeterminacy to choose a random permutation of the items. This will cause the universe to split into multiple copies, one per permutation. You test the resulting list (an order N operation), and if it's not sorted, you destroy the universe. In the remaining universe, the list will be sorted.

      Destruction of the universe was left as an exercise for the reader.

      If this isn't on a par with nuclear physics, I don't know what is. And it's Just a Matter of Programming ...

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    2. Re:Einsteins defined by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're not funny.

    3. Re:Einsteins defined by JanneM · · Score: 2

      Except, of course, that you get one universe per permutation, not per element. Which means it's an O(N!) algorithm. Unless, of course, each universe is able to decide by itself whether it is sorted and destroy iteslf, in which case it's an O(1) algorithm. In neither case is it O(N).

      /Janne

      --
      Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
    4. Re:Einsteins defined by JWSmythe · · Score: 1

      What are you complaining about, you're in a universe that survived.. Think about your alternative selfs that no longer exist because their universes list didn't get sorted. :)

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    5. Re:Einsteins defined by JanneM · · Score: 2

      ...and of course I press submit before actually engaging the clutch to my brain...

      With parallel tests it is of course O(N). My bad. But why stop there? Why not split each list into overlapping pairs: [1,2], [2,3], [3,4]... and let each 'sub' universe destroy itself if the pair is sorted. If there are no sub-universes, this usiverse stays (as it is sorted). If there are remaining sub-universa, we destroy them, and ourselves. This makes it an O(1) algorithm (assuming the creation of all these parallel universa is in constant time and in parallel).

      /Janne

      --
      Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
    6. Re:Einsteins defined by yamla · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Of course you get one universe per permutation. And of course each universe determines whether the set is sorted or not. But it is in O(n) because it takes O(n) to determine if a set is sorted or not. It isn't O(1) because each universe has to actually test to see if the set is sorted.

      --

      Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.
    7. Re:Einsteins defined by jc42 · · Score: 2

      > You're not funny.

      Well, of course not. I was just repeating someone else's algorithm. They deserve the credit for the humor, not me.

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    8. Re:Einsteins defined by Sapinator · · Score: 1

      Riiight... Aren't we going just *a little* offtopic now? "Screw the Universe" - Some Dude

    9. Re:Einsteins defined by negativethirsty · · Score: 1

      I'm scared that i actually understood what you said.

      --

      thirsty*i^2

      "Ya I finished that last week, it just doesn't work"
    10. Re:Einsteins defined by Carnivorous+Carrot · · Score: 1

      Along with those universes where Sandra Bullock grinds her stink into my face every night.

      It's all so damned wasteful.

      --
      "Has [being a kidnapped teenage girl, raped repeatedly for months] changed you?" - Katie Couric to Elizabeth Smart
    11. Re:Einsteins defined by JWSmythe · · Score: 1


      Hey watch it! That's my future ex-wife you're talking about.. hehe. Or maybe she already is in another universe, and I could care less now. :)

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    12. Re:Einsteins defined by yamla · · Score: 1

      A universe cannot determine if sub-universes exist because each universe is at the same level, not hierarchically arranged.

      --

      Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.
  9. Important point by jlower · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The review touched on it but I think it's important to note that being smart doesn't make you a good manager. In my career I've seen great programmers promoted to management positions simply because they (the company) couldn't think of any other way to reward them for being good.

    In a department I used to work for, the best programmer is now riding herd on all the programmers. He's a great coder but not a great manager. But, the culture is that you have to keep getting promoted or there must be something wrong with you so up the ladder he went.

    Now, when he fails as a manager what happens? He can't really go back to being a coder - too much like a demotion.

    The root of the problem is the concept of a salary range for a given job. People can't get a raise because they are max'd out for their job. Want to make more? Leave the job you're good at and move to management. It ain't right but that's the way it is.

    1. Re:Important point by psin+psycle · · Score: 3, Informative

      You've just described the Peter Principle

      --
      Need a website host? Try out http://WebQualityHost.net
    2. Re:Important point by Asprin · · Score: 0, Redundant

      There's a name for this - I think it's called the "Peter Pan Effect" or "The Peter Principle" or something to that effect. Basically, everyone rises to their own level of incompetence.

      --
      "Lawyers are for sucks."
      - Doug McKenzie
    3. Re:Important point by disappear · · Score: 2
      I think it's called the "Peter Pan Effect" or "The Peter Principle" or something to that effect. Basically, everyone rises to their own level of incompetence.

      The Peter Principle, yes.

      Unfortunately it's not entirely true: I know a number of people who have risen far beyond their level of incompetence.

      This is typically because the manager doesn't want this person working for them --- the employee is a total idiot, of course, and usually grating, too --- so the manager gets said employee promoted to the same level as him or herself, thereby no longer "getting" to manage said employee.

    4. Re:Important point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's probably because a good coder can only do so much. No matter how much code you produce, you are not having that big of an impact on the company's bottom line (unless its an 100 person company). A person that can effectively manage a team of 20 developers ulitmately has more effect on the well-being of the company. Just as the manager of all the managers has that much more of an effect.

      That being said, how much more code can the greatest code produce relative to someone just out of school? 2x? 3x? 4x? Whatever point that is, when the greatest coder makes more than 4x the amount of someone out of school, it's time to fire him/her and hire 4 new people.

    5. Re:Important point by einstein · · Score: 1

      I've heard that IBM is really good a preventing this. They have two promotion paths, one technical, one managerial. you can go up the tech path, take a lateral promotion to the managerial side, same pay, go up a few rungs as a manager, decide you'd rather be a tech, take another lateral transfer back to being a tech. It sounds like a beautiful solution. I'm afraid it would only work for organizations that are as big as IBM though. most smaller companies probably just don't have the sheer number of positions to allow such shuffling back and forth.
      ---

    6. Re:Important point by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 2

      Dogbert's corollary to the Peter Principle: most people in management were never competent at anything to begin with. That satisfies my cynical side, but in the real world, of course, you get a mixture of both -- as well as those more-precious-than-rubies managers who were really good at the grunt work and are good managers as well.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    7. Re:Important point by ccoakley · · Score: 3, Informative

      That being said, how much more code can the greatest code produce relative to someone just out of school? 2x? 3x? 4x? Whatever point that is, when the greatest coder makes more than 4x the amount of someone out of school, it's time to fire him/her and hire 4 new people.

      OUCH, that's a little scathing, but not altogether troll-like. There are some things that senior developers can do that someone just out of school can't (and there are exceptions in both directions).

      I have worked for a small business (currently at a 50 person company), a not-so-small business (500 person company), and contracted to some big ones (read SAIC, who acts like the biggest company in the world). Not the best sampling, but decent.

      At the 50 and 500 person companies, senior developers bring a lot to the table. They figure out how to solve the customers' problems. They are the subject matter experts--the customer knows they have a problem, but doesn't know what it is or how to solve it. Senior dev mentor the junior dev.

      The fact is, there are some problems that hiring a dozen fresh graduates won't solve that a single senior developer can. It isn't always about pumping out code (if it was, we'd write a code generator for it). And for those fresh graduates that can perform as senior developers, they'll get promoted quickly.

      Companies that do not see this are going to wind up short on talent. I've noticed this at the big companies. They have a lot of talented programmers--all contractors. They have a lot of junior developers as permanent employees. Any of the junior developers who make the grade jump ship and become contractors, or they go work for someone who treats their employees right.

      --
      Network Security: It always comes down to a big guy with a gun.
    8. Re:Important point by Freedom+Bug · · Score: 3, Insightful

      According to an old IBM study, a good coder is approximately 100 times as productive as an average coder. The big win is not in lines of code produced, but because she tends to get it right the first time. Remember, a bug in the field can easily be 1000x as expensive as a bug caught during development.

    9. Re:Important point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think it's a reflection of the still relatively young age of the software engineering industry that it's assumed that programmers will "move up" to management at some point. Not only are the skill sets for programming vs. managing very different, but it's been my experience that most companies do very little to train new managers. This is why so many first-line technical managers suck.


      I tried the management track for a couple of years after programming for 10 years. Some of it was interesting, but for the most part I missed what I most enjoyed, (the technical work), and was forced to do a lot of stuff I didn't like, (dealing with other managers, wasting time in meetings, putting up with people's agendas that had nothing to do with producing something of actual value). How did I get back to programming? Easy - I quit my management job and started programming again.


      Don't be fooled into thinking management is a step up. Do what you enjoy and are good at, and get the best compensation deal you can.

    10. Re:Important point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would think that with a software development process (requirements, design, modeling) that there wouldn't be so many bugs when it is time to code.

    11. Re:Important point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The point I was making is that you cannot continually expect more money year for just coding. Sure, coders can move into a variety of other positions (software architects, consultants, managers, etc..).

      I was talking about the actual coding. At a company with a software development process, a person with 20 years coding experience won't produce code faster that much faster than someone with 2 years.

    12. Re:Important point by scraggles · · Score: 1

      depends, if his weakness is only people management, he could still be very capable of project management. It's dangerous to lump all *management* into one category.

      --
      Computers are like air conditioners; they stop working if you open windows
    13. Re:Important point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      At a company with a software development process, a person with 20 years coding experience won't produce code faster that much faster than someone with 2 years.


      That, my friend, is exactly the problem with having a software development process.

    14. Re:Important point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You hit the nail on the head with this one. I was offered a promotion but turned it down, but on my next pay raise I will be making the same money as my boss without the responsibility. I told them I don't want to manage. Thats the problem with our capitalist society. It assumes everyone wants to climb the corporate ladder.

    15. Re:Important point by ewhac · · Score: 2

      The root of the problem is the concept of a salary range for a given job. People can't get a raise because they are max'd out for their job.

      That's absurd. If the company thinks an employee is valuable doing what they're doing, and they want to keep them, then just give them a raise.

      First off, the idea of a set range for a given job role is arbitrary to begin with. But who's the "audience" here? By that I mean, who's watching their salary range, and who notices when it's been exceeded? Do they get their knickers in a twist when it happens? And why should it matter to them?

      Hell, if the company feels constrained by an arbitrary salary range, then why not just create a new position (Grand Digital Poo-Bah) with no established range. If it's the semantics that's standing in your way, then hack around them.

      Schwab

    16. Re:Important point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really? From what I've seen, a good development process lets the people concentrate on areas that they like (requirements, design, testing design). I can understand that is taking away power from the "all knowing coder" who doesn't document anything to make him/herself more vaulable.

      But there was a time before the production line when people who built the cars were highly skilled craftsman. Times change...

    17. Re:Important point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's Peters' principle...people rise to their level of incompetence.

    18. Re:Important point by caferace · · Score: 1
      Remember, a bug in the field can easily be 1000x as expensive as a bug caught during development.

      Which perplexes me to no end why when a downturn in the economy occurs, companies only want to hire low-paid, novice QA Engineers.

      And yes, I'm a bit bitter....

    19. Re:Important point by flibuste · · Score: 1

      From all the opinions I've read so far, this sounds the closest to reality ;-) Techies are not managers..

      It is TRUE that, from a management point of view, techies should be considered high-level people, because it is what they are. Remember that job is done by techies, not by the management, and you cannot deny the fact that it is the people that DOES the job that KNOWS about it !

      Are techies all Einsteins ? Definitely not, unfortunately not I should say.
      However, it seems that the goal of this book is to point out that you DO NOT manage techies the way you manage others. And it's even more true in computing.
      Moreover, the computer field is full of very talented people, those people that we call geeks, because they have a passion for computers and the will to spend their time doing this.

      The actual amount of potential energy in those people is huge, and the book's (probably) about managing and focusing this energy to do good business in good intelligence with others.

      Now, no surprise, I'm one of those "geeks", and often considered as an Einstein in my field.
      The summary of the book looked all good to me and definitely fits *my* situation, and definitely fits many situations I've seen in my 10 years long geek career.
      Like many others, I've too been offered managing positions (because I'm *soooo* good, blah blah...), but here's the whole point : I may be good at programming, my code may be very sexy, but managing has nothing to do with coding ! Most people do that step because they think they'll handle it the same way, but managing is a very different job, requires totally different skills, and moreover requires you to have a very good social contact with others...It's obvious that techies who spend 10 hours a day talking to their screen/iron solder/whatever lack the training for managing.
      Peter's principle applies very well in the computer business actually !

      Anyway, I'm definitely going to buy this book and offer it to my manager ;-)

    20. Re:Important point by Doctor+Faustus · · Score: 1

      I've heard that IBM is really good a preventing this. They have two promotion paths, one technical, one managerial.

      I don't know to what extent IBM actually does that, but Fred Brooks advocated it in The Mythical Man Month, and was at IBM.

      He had an additional rule. The trend is for people to assume the management postition is better, even at the same pay, so a transfer from technical to management should never include a raise, and a transfer from management to technical should always include a raise.

    21. Re:Important point by ggwood · · Score: 1

      But if you *are* an Einstein, you would realize what you are good at and stick to that. Einstein did. (Even when he was wrong - he was doing theoretical physics - and being wrong at it which is *far* better than being right at something you are bad at.)

      Cheers,

      Greg

      --
      a war on terrorism? How can we end a war on a method?
    22. Re:Important point by ggwood · · Score: 1

      That is an awesome rule. Bravo to Fred Brooks. I should re-read The Mythical Man Month. I think it is fairly clear why people want to go to management, and that is for power. It is not necessairly the desire to control other people, but often the desire to fund their own projects. This is exactly what Einstein did not have to do. He was a theoretical physicist. No one needed to allocate him any resources for him to get his job done. If you look into the lives of experimental physicists (which would be far, far closer to programmers) like Compton or Faraday you will see they struggled greatly to get the support they needed for their projects - and that they were project managers at some level themselves. A far better title to the book would have been "Managing Edisons", but of course you know Edison was both a manager and an experimentalist. Indeed, as I recall from the History channel, Edison lost the person who went on to make the first widly available commerical motion picture projector *because* he was not an ideal manager.

      No management is the best management for creative environments. Look at how your local physics department is run. The only purely management people are the secretaries.

      Cheers,

      Greg

      --
      a war on terrorism? How can we end a war on a method?
    23. Re:Important point by Thorson · · Score: 1

      At Digital Equipment (DEC) there was an explicit two track promotion system. The managerial track, and the technical track. Managers managed and engineers did engineering. There were equivalent salary ranges all the way up to vice president/senior corporate consultant engineer.

      Peace

      Marty

  10. Elitism, oh so tasty by DohDamit · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I was looking for something, anything, in the review that said this advisory text was specifically targetted at a super-intelligent audience. Not a bright audience, mind you. After all, Einstein wasn't merely bright(like me.) He was a genius for the ages. Of course, I was curious as to where all these super-geniuses were when the business plans were being drawn up, but ahh well, who am I to question them.

    There was nothing that was targetted specifically at said employee subset. Not a thing was said that wouldn't apply to every employee.

    On the plus side, this book doesn't even have to be read to be helpful. This book is a standard management text with the marketing built into the title of the book and nowhere else.

    1. Re:Elitism, oh so tasty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >> After all, Einstein wasn't merely bright(like me.) He was a genius for the ages.

      Einstein's genius wasn't really related to what most people consider being smart/bright. The genius of Einstein was in being able to ask questions that on the surface look silly/trivial, but are deeply profound. That kind creativity can be more closely related to really great tech workers than you seem to think. But as you point out they are the rare ones... and in most operations you won't see them because they don't show up to write code... they are more interested in working on the fundamentally hard problems.

      >>Of course, I was curious as to where all these super-geniuses were when the business plans were being drawn up, but ahh well, who am I to question them.

      Simple, they were thinking about problems that interested them ... business plans were not perceived as interesting.

    2. Re:Elitism, oh so tasty by wurp · · Score: 1, Redundant

      An AC posted this and it's too good to sit at 0, so I'm gonna repost this with my +2. Mod either me or the parent; I don't care, karma: 48.

      >> After all, Einstein wasn't merely bright(like me.) He was a genius for the ages.

      Einstein's genius wasn't really related to what most people consider being smart/bright. The genius of Einstein was in being able to ask questions that on the surface look silly/trivial, but are deeply profound. That kind creativity can be more closely related to really great tech workers than you seem to think. But as you point out they are the rare ones... and in most operations you won't see them because they don't show up to write code... they are more interested in working on the fundamentally hard problems.

      >>Of course, I was curious as to where all these super-geniuses were when the business plans were being drawn up, but ahh well, who am I to question them.

      Simple, they were thinking about problems that interested them ... business plans were not perceived as interesting.

  11. Another theme by kefoo · · Score: 0

    Here's another theme to add to the list: When a manager mismanages a project (i.e. witholding some requirements until the implementation is done), don't blame the programmer. It just makes them bitter and less agreeable on future projects. My department has lost some good people because of this sort of behavior. Don't assume you're always right just because you're a manager.

  12. All I ask from my manager: by knewman_1971 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    1. Please don't micro-manage me - give me a goal, set my paramters, then get the hell out of my way. I promise that I'll amaze you in short order. 2. Don't lie to me about the state of the company. If we're in the crapper, let me know. I know you're scared that if you paint a less-than-rosy picture, I might just leave. But if you paint a rosy picture, and I find out that you're blowing sunshine up my ass, you can rest assured that I'm going to leave. 3. Remember the cardinal rule - if you hire adults, and treat them like adults, they'll probably behave like adults. (Of course, if you tell me that I can shoot Nerf guns at my cube-neighbor, don't be surprised when I do...) 4. Don't make me play any of those stupid touchy-feely games at meetings. I'm not at work to bond by force. If I need to get in touch with my deeper self, I'll do it on my own time. See rule 1. Course, that's just my opinion...yada yada.

    --
    where is the "I feel for ya, but that's some funny ass shit" moderation?
    1. Re:All I ask from my manager: by awol · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A few years ago, I stole a question from a job interview (in which I was participating as an interviewer). I now ask it of every "technical" candidate I interview:

      "What do you want from your manager"

      The actual answer to this question is not all that important. What is important is that the answer is not a cliche (that what they want is something that the candidate _will_ be able to get from the person in my organisation who will manage them) and most of all, it must show that they have some idea of what a manager does that helps them.

      In other words, if someone cannot see something of value in the role of their manger then they will be difficult to manage, geek, einstein or asshole. The "value" that shows the most insight is the filtering of the mundane (or inconvenient)so that they can get on with the "work", whilst accurately reporting progress to cheque signers.

      $0.02

      --
      "The first thing to do when you find yourself in a hole is stop digging."
    2. Re:All I ask from my manager: by svallarian · · Score: 1

      >1. Please don't micro-manage me - give me a >goal, set my paramters, then get the hell out of >my way.

      So what do you do if your manager sets *no* goals and *no* parameters?

      (besides read slashdot all day)

      --
      I patented screwing your mom. But it got revoked for "prior art."
    3. Re:All I ask from my manager: by FoulBeard · · Score: 3, Funny

      I had a tech lead who came from a military background. At first I though It would be a pain to work with this guy (coming from the military as he did), but he had some great insights about dealing with bureaucracy.

      On rather crude but insightful tidbit he had, went something like this.

      All upper management is looking for is a nice plush behind to stick it in. Its the job of your middle-manager or tech-lead to wave his/her butt around, intercept the phallus, and shield the techs so they can get their job done in comfort.

    4. Re:All I ask from my manager: by gewalker · · Score: 1

      I've been there on several occasions.

      What I did was simple. I created lists of possible goals, ranked them, submitted them to said manager, and worked on them. As long as now feedback, I worked based on my ranking. If/when I received feedback, I worked based on the new rankings.

      Whenever you were getting close to end of projects, warn manager with new possible task list of self-assigned projects.

      Managers were always pleased with this approach. YMMV.

    5. Re:All I ask from my manager: by mrosgood · · Score: 1

      Your requests are reasonable, but unrealistic. Sorry.

      Re: #1 (micromanagement) It's all about trust. I've tried the handsoff approach. It only works with a few select high-functioning people. The rest need to be handled like kindergarteners with flamethrowers hellbent on derailing your schedule.

      re: #2 (be honest) Managers like me, stuck between the upper and lower layers, don't have much wiggle room. It's pretty rare that we get an accurate picture of the overall health of the company. So cut us some slack.

      re: #3 (hire adults) I wish! The biggest success factor is team building. And I've yet to have much say in who gets assigned to my teams.

      re: #4 (pop-management-psychology) Most, but not all, of it is crap. Ditto methodologies and other theologies. Believe me, fending off that nonsense is a constant battle.

    6. Re:All I ask from my manager: by knewman_1971 · · Score: 1

      Aye, there's the rub. A year ago, the answer was "take 10 minutes to update your resume, post on Monster, and find a new gig...".

      Nowadays, it's a whole new ball-o-wax.

      It's been my experience, that there's always someone in the foodchain who's willing to listen to a good employee that just wants to be better. I don't want a raise, I don't want more options. I just want you to let me do my job to the best of my ability. To facilitate that, here's what I need. Try to be non-threatening, and be clear that what you are asking for is going to make a difference.

      Failing that, read Bastard Operator From Hell for tips...

      --
      where is the "I feel for ya, but that's some funny ass shit" moderation?
    7. Re:All I ask from my manager: by knewman_1971 · · Score: 1

      The rest need to be handled like kindergarteners with flamethrowers hellbent on derailing your schedule.

      Oh my god, that's great!

      Meanwhile, back at the point...

      I'll have to concede on a couple of your points. My requests are based on my work history, which has involved quite a few small companies, where I would work at most two layers under the CEO. I've had the luxury of being in a position where the person above me was VERY aware about the overall state of the company. And I tend to be a very motivated employee, so hands-off works for me.

      --
      where is the "I feel for ya, but that's some funny ass shit" moderation?
    8. Re:All I ask from my manager: by Cyno · · Score: 2, Interesting


      That's a cool question. Being an asshole, geek, whatever, not an einstein, though, I'd like to answer. I expect a manager to provide me with the general direction the company wants to take, screen sensitive communications problems from my foul mouth, and get on my case when I'm slacking off. My current manager does an excellent job of this.

      But I'm also curious what is expected of a project oriented geek. The proper question for any geek to ask in such an interview is "What do you want from me?" I find that most companies don't know how to manage their resources, their employees. I often find there are a lot of brilliant people that are not being asked for their input reguarding important corporate decisions. I tend to think that most of the problems companies have stem from a lack of internal open communication. Often because upper management either doesn't enjoy talking with rude foul mouth techs, like me, or they think they know everything and have no need to seek advice. I don't know. I feel like management outsources half their solutions, half the time. Anyone care to comment?

      Working in a large corporation I find that most of the people I work with and talk to directly are good hard-working people who want to work with you through projects and make the office environment enjoyable. But it seems like upper management is cut-off from the rest of the company and reality, sometimes. But maybe that's just my perception, since I think I could run it better myself... and I think that is why someone needed to write a book called managing einsteins. Not because they are hard to work with, but because they have had a lot of experience and think they know something about how businesses actually work. The real question is "Do techs realisticly understand business?"

    9. Re:All I ask from my manager: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Borrowing - why is this not a surprise?

      Someone like yourself who thinks themselves
      smart, yet is a self styled half whit,
      "whilst" not even being able to spell
      correctly.

      Turn off your damn spell checker & re-engage your
      brain!! It's orginiZation ZIP HEAD!!

    10. Re:All I ask from my manager: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Watch that spelling flame, "half whit". And I believe you're addressing a Brit, hence "organisation" and "whilst".

  13. replace by zephc · · Score: 4, Funny

    s/Einstein/People obviously smarter and more talented that you/g

    Stick THAT in your MBA PHB pipe and smoke it, Mr.!

    Not that I'm bitter =]

    --
    "I would say that 99 per cent of what my father has written about his own life is false." - L. Ron Hubbard Jr.
  14. I'll tell you how to keep us happy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    How to keep tech workers happy, given that they likely don't want the same things as their bosses, and certainly would choose different ways to achieve them?

    Barrels and barrels of Red Vines. Breakfast burritos, pizza, snickers bars, egg mcmuffins, and microvave popcorn. And keep the fridge full of soda. Also, try not to say anything bad about Hobbits or Linux. Finally, take us seriously when we request 4 months of vacation to camp out for the next Star Wars movie.

    1. Re:I'll tell you how to keep us happy by David+Kennedy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I know you're being funny...I hate this self-stereotyping of technical staff.

      I don't want free sodas at work (I do like the subsidised canteen to be decent quality though), I don't want junk food, I don't want trash all over cubicle, I don't obsess about [Monty Python|Star Wars|LoTR], I don't want to fire Nerf Guns at fellow employees - I want to be treated like a mature professional doing a professional job.

      I want money not some novelties scattered around the room. I want a quiet office, not a playpen. I agree that I want to know when the business is on the slide. I want influence and respect from people in suits. I want to be understood when I talk at project meetings. I want an understanding in the manager's head of why what I'm telling matters.

      Tricking out your cubicle with action figures etc is just begging to be treated like a child. No wonder your boss seems like the PHB; to him/her you probably seem like a child. Or worse, a social misfit, a weirdo. Someone who's useful but fundementally unreliable.

      Secondly, I don't see much "geek attitude" or reviews of Episode II trailers in mainstream trade journals (Dr Dobbs, Appication Development Advisor, Software Development) or in more seriously coding forums. In my experience, and I know this is pressing buttons, those who most loudly beg for ping-pong tables in work are those with the most inflated egos and least developed skills. Lets face it /., there's an opinion among many developers that the crowd here is nothing but a bunch of schoolkids with delusions of knowledge; don't feed them.

    2. Re:I'll tell you how to keep us happy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amen.

    3. Re:I'll tell you how to keep us happy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > the crowd here is nothing but a bunch of schoolkids with delusions of knowledge

      well, that's hardly unexpected, you have just described the operators of this site

    4. Re:I'll tell you how to keep us happy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Judging from your posts you're taking yourself too seriously. I guess you're 30 something (as I'm) so you're expected to be serious. But honestly, 'we, the adults with the real knowledge' are contributing to the balance of the universe just as 'a bunch of schoolkids with delusions of knowledge' do.

    5. Re:I'll tell you how to keep us happy by daviskw · · Score: 2

      I'm forty. I will never be a manager. I hate them. I will spend the rest of my days as a developer and I get a real kick out of it. I'm good at my job. I mean what I say and I say what I think. I think Nerf guns are real cool when they pop the tile on the ceiling right above my desk. Starwars actions figures are okay but I like my frogs and minature pool table better.

      Why am I saying this? The writer of the above article is about three ticks away from a full blown heart attack. It is obvious that he has no sense of humor. He doesn't even like people who have a sense of humor.

      As a developer you need to do your job and find things to free your mind to think about how to do your job. If this means nurf gun wars then that is what you do. If this means ping pong tables at work then that is what you do. If you are one of those tight assed people that can't stand to see someone populating their cubicle in a way that makes them human than I for one wouldn't want to work with you anyway.

      On the other hand free sodas and snacks aren't a motivator. Give me something cool to do from scratch and you can have me for life.

      --
      Beware the wood elf!!!
    6. Re:I'll tell you how to keep us happy by ignavus · · Score: 1

      I want a quiet office, not a playpen

      Well, I think of playpens as being more for the Macintosh types...

      [ducks]

      --
      I am anarch of all I survey.
    7. Re:I'll tell you how to keep us happy by partingshot · · Score: 2

      """If this means nurf gun wars then that is what you do. If this means ping pong tables at work then that is what you do"""

      Please for the love of god go somewhere else and
      do it. I'm trying to work and I need quiet.
      If I'm thinking about a problem, I need your
      distractions about as much as I need daily status
      meetings. Wait, that's not exactly fair, at
      least I would get something out of the status
      meetings.

      --
      Anonymous posts are filtered.
    8. Re:I'll tell you how to keep us happy by partingshot · · Score: 1

      """ I want to be treated like a mature professional doing a professional job.
      """

      I agree with your comments. The same people that
      gripe about mgt. not listening to them are
      usually the same ones double fisted with nerf
      guns. They just don't get it.

      --
      Anonymous posts are filtered.
  15. Training and Education? by Johannes · · Score: 2, Insightful

    While I'm not sure I would qualify myself as an "Einstein", I would say that I'm a geek.

    While I can agree with some of the themes, I generally view training and education as worthless most times. I'd much rather have a piece of software dropped in front of me and give me 2 days to play with it than go off to some training course somewhere else to have it explained to me like I'm a toddler.

    Am I the only one?

    1. Re:Training and Education? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. I have a sign on my cube wall, over my monitor, that reads, "Give me the manuals and leave me alone."

      Just so management knows exactly where I stand with regards to training.

      Besides, they've noticed that reimbursing me for O'Reilly books is cheaper than sending me to classes, and they're building a reference library in the process.

    2. Re:Training and Education? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Absolutely not. My manager used to try to build a certain number of courses per year into my job description, but I complained constantly that there aren't any courses here that would do me any good (that they can afford to send me to, anyway) because there seems to be a whole industry built around giving geeks 4 days out of the office to socialize. To hell with that, my office is comfy. The last course I went to I had to fly 3 hours, stay in a shitty hotel, eat shitty food, take beginner level instruction for 5 hours a day when they promised advanced level instruction for 8, and watch shitty movies on the shitty hotel's shitty television. It was great! No, no, it was shitty.

      Now I refuse courses and I just make him buy all my books. That makes him happy, because I'm actively broadening my knowledge, and it makes me happy, because hey, free books!

    3. Re:Training and Education? by RatOmeter · · Score: 1

      "... I generally view training and education as worthless most times..."
      "Am I the only one?"

      No, you're not. At college, each course I took could could have been done in a month (expect advanced chem and possibly Calculus). In fact, if you count the time I actually spent studying and when I was not sleeping in class, each course probably did take a month or less. Way back in the '80s, Engineering freshmen at my college were required to take FORTRAN. I didn't know it and didn't want to. So I spent a long afternoon studying a book, and tested out of it (the test was made to show ComSci familarity in the context of FORTRAN, so it was easy).

      The pace of most undergrad courses is so *excruciatingly* slow, I never could stick to it, so I haven't finished yet! That means I may be missing out on being "well-rounded" or some job oppurtunities, but I get by. I'm seriously looking into Phoenix or other remote teaching avenues that allow one's own pace.

      My most successful studies have always been purely self-motivated. Getting MCP and CCNA certs was a matter of wanting to, getting the book(s), studying the books, plopping down the money and passing the exam.

      I have also been "promoted" to a group leader position. I don't lead very well. I don't want to lead. If the other coders in my group can't turn out their code, I don't want'm around! And I NEVER want to attend another IDIOTIC COACHING seminar again!

      Whewww!

      -

    4. Re:Training and Education? by the_argent · · Score: 1

      Yes and no.....
      I sometimes love nothing more than getting hip deep in a new piece of software or technology and learning to grok it on my own terms. But, at the same time, having management offer to send me to some decent training somewhere is a nice reward. It gets me out of the office for a week or so, and allows the monotony of the cube farm to be broken for a while.

    5. Re:Training and Education? by Rupert · · Score: 2

      That's training and education. What you need is 2 days where no-one's going to bother you with other work so you can train yourself.

      I hate those training classes where by the fourth day you know more about the subject than the instructor, or where the examples just plain don't work (like using Word97 as a COM container). Others have been really useful (Guerrilla COM springs to mind).

      --

      --
      E_NOSIG
  16. Re:Disgusting arrogance by carm$y$ · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Actually, there is something to say about this: this kind of books are allegedly written for managers, but the intended audience doesn't have neither the time nor a particular drive to read it

    It's like karma-whoring on /. : you say what you have to say to make the *real* audience happy, and make it sound you're not even targeting this audience. In other words, the book seems to be a book "for managers" - but to be read and paid by the techies...

    --
    -- No sig today
  17. More like "Think They're Einsteins" by Ars-Fartsica · · Score: 4, Interesting

    And thats the crux of the problem. Often you have to deal with people who are not only immodest about their own abilities, but are often falsely immodest. I cannot begin to tell you how many Valley types think they are precious, irreplacable little snowflakes who wake up every morning knowing something new that us mere mortals simply could never divine.

    1. Re:More like "Think They're Einsteins" by JimPooley · · Score: 2

      I'll drink to that. The bloke I replaced thought he was god's gift, and far more clever than anyone else could ever possibly be.
      I thought he was a useless tosser who was all mouth and no trousers, and everyone hated him.
      Once I came to go through some of his work, I discovered that he'd spent the majority of his time adding pointless non-functional complexity to his scripts to make things look more difficult (and himself more clever) than they really were.
      Arse!

      --

      "Information wants to be paid"
    2. Re:More like "Think They're Einsteins" by dlaur · · Score: 2, Funny

      The funny thing is that I hate all the code ever written by everyone on the planet. The only good code is the code I am working on right now. In fact, code from last month is complete crap. Even (especially) the stuff I wrote myself. It's funny how judgmental I become when I look at code.

      For more information, refer to the "Not Invented Here" anti-pattern. I am a long-time sufferer.

    3. Re:More like "Think They're Einsteins" by NorthDude · · Score: 0

      Reminds me of a girl who worked with us at my last job. She has a master in CS, but could not even grasp simple concept like the COM model (she was doing VB). Once, she came at my desk to ask a question, and she put her greasy fingers right in my screen. Grrrr! So I politely asked here to not stick her fingers on my screen cuz I had other things to do then clean my screen 3 times a day. She went all upset and told me: "you owes me respect, I have a master!". Next day she got fired...

      --


      I'd rather be sailing...
    4. Re:More like "Think They're Einsteins" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hehe. I exactly the same, and I thought I was the only one ;),

  18. The Golden Rule of Management by dgroskind · · Score: 2

    His advice: Managers should be honest with their workers about the company's successes and failures, the point of management is to guide and suggest not to be autocratic, let the Einsteins have freedom in work environment, Einsteins are project-focused, not job-focused, they value training and education highly, they require a stimulating and fun work place.

    So how does this advice apply to Einsteins more than any other kind worker in any other department?

    This advice could be summarized by the Golden Rule of Management: Do unto your staff as you would have your manager do onto you.

    He could have also said, when all else fails, raise their salary.

  19. They only listen to each other by drew_kime · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Didn't seebs write something about managing hackers (and/or herding cats) that has much the same advice, has been around longer, and is more "truer to the cause" since it was written by one of us instead of a bunch of management professionals who claim to understand us?

    Managment types don't listen to geeks. If they did, we wouldn't need books like this in the first place.

    --
    Nope, no sig
  20. nerf guns. by Innomi · · Score: 1

    Require a daily nerf war and geeks will flock to the job.

    1. Re:nerf guns. by aminorex · · Score: 2

      I've heard of this culture, but I've never seen
      it in reality. I have always suspected it was a
      creation of the ooh-aah gawking tech press during
      the internet stock market bubble.

      Is that what it's like in your neck of the woods,
      or is it just what you've read about in Wired?
      Most of the intelligent people I know are very
      interested in accomplishing things, and tend not
      to appreciate nerf arrows any more than sales
      meetings. They usually don't kick it out until
      they are stuck or wiped out or pissed off.

      --
      -I like my women like I like my tea: green-
    2. Re:nerf guns. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This has the added side benefit of getting all the geeks out of the way so the intelligent, sociable, talented technology professionals can actually gets some work done instead of being harassed by the local Beast-Bearded Dirty GNU Hippy for running Linux on our alarm clocks.

    3. Re:nerf guns. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its real. The company I used to work for did consulting work for dot-coms (none of whom are still in business, BTW) and we had daily nerf gun fights. It started out when a single developer brought in a gun, and an arms race quickly ensued. Before we knew it, we had people with the 20-dart nerf machine guns and rubbler ball blunderbusses. It was a fun way to let of steam when working insane hours, but when I fight broke out when you were trying to get some work done it did get annoying. I should mention our office was completely open - just desks pushed against each other, no cubicles.

    4. Re:nerf guns. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gosh, I can't see why the company failed!

    5. Re:nerf guns. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, the company itself did not fail, although it was eventually bought out. In spite of the goofiness and ultra-casual atmosphere, an incredible amount of actual work did get done.

      As we used to say, "We have a name for 8-hour work days. We call those Saturdays and Sundays"

  21. the best managers by dolphin558 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The best managers(especially in this field) are probably those who listen to their employees and actively work with them to find the best solutions. To all managers: stop asking other managers on tips on the most efficient ways of finishing projects...ask your own employees!

  22. Where are you? by drew_kime · · Score: 2

    Who the hell is recruiting anybody anymore?

    We are!


    So where are you located, and where do I submit my resume?

    --
    Nope, no sig
    1. Re:Where are you? by Bronster · · Score: 2

      Melbourne, Australia - and you can email it to
      brong@h-r-s.com

  23. Just because you _can_ doesn't mean you _wanna_ by SirSlud · · Score: 4, Insightful

    My main pet peeve with the IT generation of managers is that they equate what is technically possible ("Hey, programmer, can we do this?") with what their minions actually want to do.

    I dont think you'll find many construction workers that like to build useless buildings (where the mgmt. in this scenario would cry, "Why not! You're building stuff! You're a builder!". In my mind, management tends to ignore the social aspects of project planning. I always like to say that I could write a scalable distributed inventory management solution in binary, if I really had to, but because of how utterly soul sucking and unfun that would be, I promise no matter how self-disciplined I might be, it will suck. Simply because I won't believe in _what_ I'm building, and thus my work will reflect that.

    Management needs to do a better job of understanding why programmers and techies often seem to resentful when being assigned projects - as the .com flop showed, those grumblins and skeptical snide remarks by your programmers are often going to be the first sign that what you're building might not be worth the social and technical trouble that the project will cause.

    Now, much of the IT industry is about spurring people against their will using rewards such as high salaries and job perks (nerf guns anyone?) to entice them to building things that businesses want. Programmers and techies can spot and sniff the 'empty promises' in technology (and there are tons), and it is a sign of bad management that ignores those types of hesitations and flies on the basis of what is 'techically possible' alone.

    --
    "Old man yells at systemd"
    1. Re:Just because you _can_ doesn't mean you _wanna_ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In my experience, tech workers are no more or less qualified to know what will succeed and have "social value" than anyone else.

      Some are right, some are wrong.

    2. Re:Just because you _can_ doesn't mean you _wanna_ by EricTheGreen · · Score: 1


      Management needs to do a better job of understanding why programmers and techies often seem to resentful when being assigned projects


      I would respond that programmers and techies who feel this way need to do a better job of understanding why something which may seem boring/trivial to them may hold value for the business as a whole.

      Not saying that all projects are good simply because someone thinks they are--Lord knows there are plenty of DOA projects spawned out of ego gratification or politics (and I've worked/managed my share of them). But I see a amazing number of developers who have no interest in even trying to evaluate the business rationale of a decision if they sense the decision consequences pushing them out of their personal comfort zones.

      You might be right--the project might be stupid, meaningless, doomed to fail and a waste of time and resources. But it isn't guaranteed to be these things simply because it doesn't interest you.


      it is a sign of bad management that ignores those types of hesitations and flies on the basis of what is 'techically possible' alone.


      Don't know what employers you've worked for, but my experience is the opposite. Little seems to be done simply because it can be done. Lots is not done because the risks (real or falsely perceived) of doing so seems disportionate measured against the gains (real or falsely perceived) of a successful outcome.

      I'd say a more useful tactic would be for tech types who agree with your sentiments to learn how to convince their company chiefs: a) technical choice 'X' is a good|bad decision for the company and b) why is is so, in quantifiable terms that the chief can understand. This is not a simple or singular skill, of course--it involves lots of peoplework, negotiations, occasionally losing battles to win wars, and learning to explain your opinion in a seemingly foreign language of finance and management. But, IMHO, that seems a lot less stressful than sitting around all day resenting the stupidity of your management.

      Or, you can run your own company and do whatever you want. Just remember: the onus is on you to convince someone that what you're doing is interesting/useful enough to warrant your getting paid for it. See above discussion on negotiation,peoplework, etc.

    3. Re:Just because you _can_ doesn't mean you _wanna_ by Salamander · · Score: 4, Insightful
      dont think you'll find many construction workers that like to build useless buildings

      Actually, builders seem to have absolutely no problem with that. They get a contract, they do the work, they get paid, they move on, without obsessing over whether the project is interesting or challenging or sexy like programmers do.

      as the .com flop showed, those grumblins and skeptical snide remarks by your programmers are often going to be the first sign

      Let's not rewrite history, OK? The techies were in the vanguard for that debacle. They were the ones leading the way, yammering about new economies grumbling about how those old-school types just didn't get it, yadda yadda yadda. They were rampant optimists. The skepticism was coming from above, and turned out to be well justified.

      Now, much of the IT industry is about spurring people against their will...to entice them to building things that businesses want.

      Sounds like a pretty fucking good business model to me. Much better than building things that nobody wants, that's for sure.

      Programmers and techies can spot and sniff the 'empty promises' in technology

      No, it's the people running the businesses who've learned to spot empty promises, like the "if you let us build it, they will come" promise of the dot-bomb era. The techies are more often the ones making the empty promises.

      --
      Slashdot - News for Herds. Stuff that Splatters.
    4. Re:Just because you _can_ doesn't mean you _wanna_ by phossie · · Score: 1

      The techies are more often the ones making the empty promises.

      I disagree - the people making the promises that have to be broken eventually are people like me.

      • I have just enough technical knowledge to have a good idea of what is and is not possible given certain generalized conditions, but I'm not qualified to do the actual work.
      • I have tons of really interesting ideas, and I can visualize and in many cases architect some really beautiful things that abstract from existing projects and will really work for the end-user.
      • Combine the above point with the fact that for many of these designs to work, a synchronous development process is necessary, there must not be "outside" complications, and that to work out the details of the design I either need to be working on the details myself (with comparatively slow progress) or I need to be hashing them out with people that can both see my vision and serve as a technical sounding board, all without getting frustrated.
      • I'm just slightly too oriented to doing everything myself to manage well.

      The only reason I didn't get involved in some startup is that I absolutely abhor greed, and there was (and is) way too much of it going around here (SF).

      --

      [|]
    5. Re:Just because you _can_ doesn't mean you _wanna_ by SirSlud · · Score: 2

      >The techies were in the vanguard for that debacle

      Um, maybe the opportunitists who knew enough about the technical side to hire programmers and such.. I'd say that generally, the programmers were not the 'techies' you're referring to. In fact, those 'techies' were simply one part pseudotechie (enough to sound like a technie to non techies, ie investors), one part management, and nine parts blind opportunists. In my experience, there were years there were management of people was completetly incidental to the management of perceived opportunities.

      I dont have a difficult time concurring that lots of young technical saavy management types fooled alot of other types into thinking that headstones.com was a surefire money maker. However, I really dont think you'll find lots of hardcore programmers who honestly believed that the very knowledge and technology that ostracized and isolated them from relating to much of the non-techie society (ie, like when using websites to buy stuff was considered very 'geeky') would be the template for mainstream business money making tommorow like those pseudotechie opportunists.

      And my parent post, in commenting about management, was more in reference to the young, new breed of manager rather than the older, admittedly more sane and skleptical manager. I find that managers with much more experience dont have near as much touble accepting my original contention (that its a bad idea to have people building things that they cannot comprehend the value of) than the younger set. The younger set seems to believe that the majority of talented, perceptive, well adjusted programmers are in it solely for the paycheque, instead of (what I believe from what I've seen) wanting to be able to better their world using the skills they either developed or were born with.

      There may be a greater number of people than ever who can justify working only for the dough involved, but I think its a frighteningly reductionist generalization about a group of people who may be representing and developing the next major chunk of infrastructure that your society and economy depends on. History is rife with examples of how the morals, ethics, and values (where values is the most important factor in the context of this discussion) of specialized skilled workers cannot simply be bought, no matter the cost. Anyone who suggests programmers should just be able to show up, code, go home, and no give a damn is either going to find themselves with a very unloyal, costly group of people to support, or forced into admitting that despite there being a need for something, if nobody wants to build it, it may benifit society as a whole to face the reality of unrequited demand.

      > Much better than building things that nobody wants, that's for sure.

      Obvious rhetoric of the week award, just for you! My point was its still not as good (both for society, and for the quality of production) as when the builders value what they're building in the same manner as those demanding the product do. And my point was that that factor is often ignored in this day and age; I think the quality of things being built is suffering for it.

      --
      "Old man yells at systemd"
    6. Re:Just because you _can_ doesn't mean you _wanna_ by Salamander · · Score: 2
      I'd say that generally, the programmers were not the 'techies' you're referring to. In fact, those 'techies' were simply one part pseudotechie

      Nope, that's just denial. As unwilling as we true techies are to admit our own group's complicity, many of the people helping to inflate the dot-com bubble were from our ranks. They knew about some cool technology, and they were too naive too realize that cool technology is only one ingredient in making a successful business. The managers and marketers weren't alone in screwing things up, not by a long shot.

      My point was its still not as good (both for society, and for the quality of production) as when the builders value what they're building

      And that's a good point, but not one that anybody except a mind-reader might have taken from your previous post.

      --
      Slashdot - News for Herds. Stuff that Splatters.
    7. Re:Just because you _can_ doesn't mean you _wanna_ by SirSlud · · Score: 2

      > Nope, that's just denial

      Or maybe my lack of experience (only about 5 years in this industry, 2 as a techie, 3 as a programmer). Here, I'm pulling from my past two bosses. Both were someone that our investors, and my mother would call 'techies'. They wern't programmers, tho. And talented programmers in both jobs got up and left at cruicial points - not because they wern't getting paid high enough to sell their skillset souls, but because their skillset souls were unavailable at any price.

      > And that's a good point, but not one that anybody except a mind-reader might have taken from your previous post.

      Thats why I always enjoy taking these discussions so far ... I find useful, valuable and new perspecives only once I find some context for someone's position and once I've been able to present them with how their message should be packaged, and because I know my messages dont always come across the first time either. :)

      I'm still gunna stick with my distiction between techies and the programmers tho. I think the techies screwed shit up (including those able to program), but I stand firm that born-and-bread-I-made-choose-your-own-adventure-ga mes-when-I-was-7 programmers were always hesitant to oversell a technology who's shortcomings and differences between reality and brochure were only intimately and truely known by them.

      --
      "Old man yells at systemd"
    8. Re:Just because you _can_ doesn't mean you _wanna_ by KatieL · · Score: 1

      "dont think you'll find many construction workers that like to build useless buildings "

      "Actually, builders seem to have absolutely no problem with that. They get a contract, they do the work, they get paid, they move on, without obsessing over whether the project is interesting or challenging or sexy like programmers do."

      I don't have a problem with building what I'm told. What I have an issue with is the schizophrenia companies have about whether I'm the infantry or the general. If I'm the infantry, then fine, point which way you want me to march and I'll march.

      The trouble is that people do that and then when it turns out to be the wrong way, it's my fault somehow.

      If I point out we're marching the wrong way, everyone gets an attitude. They're /MANAGEMENT/ - don't I understand? They wouldn't be management if they weren't better than me, so I'll march where I'm told. And then it's still my fault when it fails... And on the rare occaision I get asked, they ignore my opinion. And then it's my fault when it fails..

      Personally, I'd like management that either understood what's going on, or understood that they don't understand and would respect the opinion of someone who would.

      My current project manager understands /NOTHING/ about what happens in the magical months between "start developing!" and "is the software done yet?"

      The result; A project "plan" which lists people to be invited to meetings, who's working on the project, what their "stake" in the project is, a risk analysis that does include technical issues and a work plan which says "not done yet". According to the project tracking system, this is a completed document, and now the "managing" is done, she's gone off to find other projects to get involved with.. because she has no idea what the development actually entails, but won't admit that. It's like the goal of the project is to write documents, and if we happen to produce working software along the way that's a happy accident.

      It's actually an environment at this place - the management are management because... they need to be managers to get company cars and they've been here too long to not have a company car. There's an endemic misunderstanding that you don't need to know anything at all about IT to be able to manage IT projects and make decisions. These are people that get to make decisions on which languages get used in development, when they have never written a program in anything, for example.

      So there's something to ask for in management: Either a technically knowledgable, decision making person, or a technically illiterate decision respecting person. Not, as seems the norm in large companies, technically illiterate decision makers.

    9. Re:Just because you _can_ doesn't mean you _wanna_ by KatieL · · Score: 1

      "a risk analysis that does include technical issues"

      Doesn't.

      [Why can't we edit our own comments again?]

  24. Amen! Try this exercise: by Ars-Fartsica · · Score: 2
    How old is this book? Who the hell is recruiting anybody anymore?


    Go on Craig's List or some other job board and place a bogus ad for Java or VB coders, or some other mid-range skill position.

    You will receive one hundred resumes within six hours.

    1. Re:Amen! Try this exercise: by flibuste · · Score: 1

      2 amazing things here : -- There's still people willing to do VB code in the 21th century -- There's still people hiring for writing VB code in the 21th century. Einstein lived in the 20th century...time goes backward as it seems...

    2. Re:Amen! Try this exercise: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's still people willing to do VB code in the 21th century

      ... And there's still people who write "Twenty-Firth" in the 21st century too...

  25. Re:Disgusting arrogance by aminorex · · Score: 2

    Indeed, I'm quite pleased if I get a manager who
    can *read*.

    --
    -I like my women like I like my tea: green-
  26. How To Respond to 'Touchy-Feely' Games @ work? by idonotexist · · Score: 2

    I am curious to hear how others respond to meetings or 'parts of meetings' requesting you to imagine things such as: "a circle, with the line colored in your favorite color, but not red because red is too negative. Now, think of the moment of your life you felt best where you felt like you were number one! You felt confident and ready to challenge anything in the world. Now, insert that moment in the circle. The circle with your favorite color, other than red or, I forgot to mention, black, is in front of you. Go ahead and take a step forward into the circle. Go ahead! Now, how do you feel!?!"

    This is the type of shit I must confront in the work-place and entirely agree with parent: " I'm not at work to bond by force. If I need to get in touch with my deeper self, I'll do it on my own time." But, how do I respond to such requests, instead of taking a deep-breath and doing it, again? Any template responses to share?

    --
    "There ought to be limits to freedom"
    1. Re:How To Respond to 'Touchy-Feely' Games @ work? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, you could excuse yourself to go to the men's room, and go back to your desk instead of returning to the meeting.

      But that's a chickenshit method. Me, I just say, "I have several projects that are due next week. Is my participation in this exercise *truly* necessary?"

      The PHB doesn't dare say yes.

    2. Re:How To Respond to 'Touchy-Feely' Games @ work? by Asprin · · Score: 1

      You decide to quit and seek work elsewhere?

      Your options are kinda limited because the person that came up with this gem of an idea:
      a) ...has the power to put it in action, despite a profound lack of respect for coworkers and underlings;
      b) ...probably isn't where they are because they know what they're doing;
      c) ...is probably too sensitive to call your bluff on whatever shenanigans you decide to pull until it's way, WAY too late. (After all - you're quitting, right? What have you got to lose?)

      In the words of The Joker, "Death can be quite liberating - you should try it sometime."

      Seriously, though, this would be a great "Ask Slashdot" submission. If nothing else, it would generate interesting and amusing conversation.

      --
      "Lawyers are for sucks."
      - Doug McKenzie
    3. Re:How To Respond to 'Touchy-Feely' Games @ work? by WinDoze · · Score: 2

      I was in this situation once at a company I no longer work for. My response was "I have way more important things to do than bond with people I don't even work with. Want this product shipped this quarter?" Many other people followed suit after I broke the ice, and soon the "Rah-Rah" sessions were optional (and mostly empty).

    4. Re:How To Respond to 'Touchy-Feely' Games @ work? by Tackhead · · Score: 3, Funny
      > Now, insert that moment in the circle. The circle with your favorite color, other than red or, I forgot to mention, black, is in front of you. Go ahead and take a step forward into the circle. Go ahead! Now, how do you feel!?!"
      >
      >Any template responses to share?

      For your particular touchy-feely game, I came up with:

      "I still feel like a complete idiot, sitting around new-agey mindgames with you, when I could be having fun developing code that you could be selling for a profit!"

    5. Re:How To Respond to 'Touchy-Feely' Games @ work? by CharlezManning · · Score: 1
      Well, you could excuse yourself to go to the men's room....

      then come back and comment how there was no water/towel to wash your hands. Should keep the touchers away...

  27. A Milestone? by ath0mic · · Score: 1

    As this is the only book at the moment that deals directly with managing this class of workers, also get your manager to read Jon Katz's Geeks

    Perhaps the only recommendation I have ever seen to read Katz.

    1. Re:A Milestone? by paynter · · Score: 1

      I have read niether book. But I have to say that this quote (my emphasis) sums up why Katz is so offensive:

      Referring to super-intelligent, curious, passionate, often introverted, talented individuals as "geeks" is outdated. Although Einsteins can call colleagues "geeks," it is not appropriate or cool for non-Einsteins to refer to computer, technology, systems or software geniuses as geeks. (page 217)

  28. What about reverse? by garver · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Where's the book "Working for PHBs"? Seriously, isn't that the other half of the problem? The word "Einstein" is used derisively, I think, to say IT workers are arrogant asses that assume all those above and around them are idiots. So, "Managing Einsteins" would be a book about appeasing these Einsteins while getting them to do what you want (e.g. herding cats).

    On the other hand, the Einsteins derisively refer to management as PHBs because they don't completely understand technical issues and make decisions on loose technical-ground. Sure, we could blow this issue off as management being stupid, or we can learn, for example, how better to comminucate the issues so the PHBs can make better decisions. It might also enlighten us to the fact there is more to a decision than just the technical side, such as marketing, customer acceptance, product portfolio, etc.

    Bottom line, its two different cultures. To get them to work together requires efforts and respect on both sides.

    1. Re:What about reverse? by Shiny+Metal+S. · · Score: 2
      Bottom line, its two different cultures. To get them to work together requires efforts and respect on both sides.

      That is why Dr. John M. Ivancevich and Dr. Thomas N. Duening, the authors of "Managing Einsteins", are writing their next book entitled "Working for Rockefellers".

      --

      ~shiny
      WILL HACK FOR $$$

    2. Re:What about reverse? by hanmer · · Score: 1
      There is this, although it might be a bit out of date.

      It looks like the same author has some newer books with fun titles, too.

      Or you could work where I work ... we are fortunately low on PHBs. (frantically looks around for wood to knock on)

    3. Re:What about reverse? by benneke · · Score: 1

      I am reading The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World, by Christopher Duncan (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1590590082 ), and I think this might be the response to your question. It's about learning and dealing with the realities of workplace politics in the tech industry, and acquiring tactics to be able to deal with and even manage the behaviors of management in such a way as to attempt to get the maximum time for coding and to be left alone while you code. Unlike a lot of "methodology" books, Duncan accepts that management is rarely going to accept a complex design methodology because they mainly care about getting money (which you should care about too, since it's your paycheck), and promotes a view that is both realistic and pro-programmer (he is a long-time contract programmer). I think it is a good step towards finding the common ground you describe. The book is written in a very entertaining style, as well.

      --
      -Kathleen Bennett
  29. Salesmen are only motivated by money? by The+Wing+Lover · · Score: 2

    I know it's a cool Dilbert-esque thing to make fun of salesmen, but it's a rather stupid assumption to assume that salesmen are any more or less motivated by money than "Einsteins".

    The last time I checked, salesmen are human too, and as such have a fairly wide range of motivations, from workplace comfort to a good peer group to flexible hours to money.

    Or maybe the sales guys at my company are just weird...

    --

    - In Capitalist America, law violates YOU!

    1. Re:Salesmen are only motivated by money? by zhrike · · Score: 1

      I know it's a cool Dilbert-esque thing to make fun of salesmen, but it's a rather stupid assumption to assume that salesmen are any more or less motivated by money than "Einsteins".

      Everyone is motivated by money to a certain extent. For me, it is a means to an end, and nothing more. Money could never get me to relax my principles, or act as I would not normally. Looking at it in that light, and having worked both in sales and IT, I think that salepeople are far more likely to be motivated by the thought of accruing money and material things, whether it be for them personally, or for an organization.

      my .02

    2. Re:Salesmen are only motivated by money? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Or maybe the sales guys at my company are just weird...


      yup.

    3. Re:Salesmen are only motivated by money? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The trouble is that salesmen are leeches who lie for a living. I used to a know a salesman who was a great person in all but these aspects.

    4. Re:Salesmen are only motivated by money? by @madeus · · Score: 1

      Most sales people do behave very differently to technical people.

      This is less true of more senior sales staff, but the rank and file are much greedier and less interested in 'the good of society' or the good of anyone else, than your typical engineer, IME.

      That's why they are salesmen...

      YMMV.

    5. Re:Salesmen are only motivated by money? by bdlarkin · · Score: 1
      My favorite sales quote:

      Never let the needs of the customer interfere with the commision plan.

    6. Re:Salesmen are only motivated by money? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      good of society ????
      so you are a charity worker then ???

    7. Re:Salesmen are only motivated by money? by arfy · · Score: 1

      Salesmen are human, but they willingly listen to motivational tapes in their cars. (At least, this behaviour has been apparent in all but one I've known.)
      I would argue that they may be longing to devolve to some subspecies earlier than homo sapiens, and that it might explain some of their more mammalian behaviour patterns. Heck, some of the ones I've worked with probably would have marked their territory with urine if the company handbook hadn't had explicit prohibitions against it.

    8. Re:Salesmen are only motivated by money? by @madeus · · Score: 1

      Well I do work for charity yes, but not as a way of paying the bills - I prefer to do a little bit for work but primarily make monetary donations it makes more sense for me to make $$$$$ a month as good systems engineer and then donate $$$ each month on a regular basis.

      But, to reiterate, I find that far less sales people I know do chairity work (well I can't think of any I know that do), than my friends in scientific, engineering or academic fields (of of whom most do do charity work).

      I don't mean to imply that sales people are evil, but that they tend to have different motivation to, say, engineers.

      Have you seen differently? How many companies have you been at where you've seen otherwise?

  30. True enough. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's why my business model is you're hired at a base salary and get quarterly bonuses based on performance of the company as a whole. Company goes to shit no bonus. Company does well you've got tons of cash to burn.

    Paying this way brings two important factors to conclusion. #1 the what's in it for me if the company gets these extra 300 clients (as opposed to just more work). and #2 it forces the employees to take a close look at their financial situation and plan accordingly (this helps them to save because they only have a limited idea on how much then next bonus will be).

    The employees are given incentive and rewarded for helping the company. In turn they take part of the risk.

    Treat employees well and your company will prosper.

    1. Re:True enough. by CaseyB · · Score: 2
      And if you bust your ass, working 60 hour weeks putting your natural talent into delivering projects, you get to watch the 9-to-5 button pusher morons reap the rewards of your efforts. Yay!

      A few countries in eastern Europe tried out that philsophy, it didn't work so hot.

    2. Re:True enough. by bcaulf · · Score: 1

      Now listen, I'm no commie, but it is senseless to take your ideological opposition to a political philosophy and apply it places it doesn't belong. In this case we're talking about a group of people that is small enough so that a collective responsibility and reward system can promote a high level of motivation and commitment.

      If there does happen to be a slacker in the bunch, the most powerful motivator for him to get on board or get out of the company would be a strong sense of commitment among those around him.

  31. Only IT workers? by zeus_tfc · · Score: 4, Insightful

    At the risk of reminding people that there are more ner...ah, "Einsteins" out there than Computer "Einsteins", I think this has more applications than just in the IT industry. The IT industry has been heavily stereotyped, but so have engineers. I work in the Plastic Injection Molding industry, designing automotive parts. How much less does this apply to me? Our Engineers need to feel at ease in office. We need the freedom to be creative and imaginative. This benefits the company as well as the engineers. How?
    1)Patents. The company gets a patent with the Engineer's name on it.
    2)Money. Our new ideas could potentially save tooling costs, material, or cycle time, all of which means we can save our customer money, and make more money.

    Slashdot may be "News for Nerds", but I think people need to be reminded that all nerds aren't computer nerds

    just an opinion

    --
    "...At the end of the day"..."when everyone goes home, you're stuck with yourself." RIP Layne Staley
  32. niche market by Krimsen · · Score: 1

    Talk about a niche market... whoa.

  33. Pukeola! by JimPooley · · Score: 2

    Holy moly! What a pretentious load of wank this book is. 'Managing Einsteins', indeed. I love this bit: "a stimulating and fun work place" No. Stimulating and Fun is what I do when i'm NOT at work!

    --

    "Information wants to be paid"
  34. Gross generalizations by joshv · · Score: 2

    Who doesn't hate it when a promised project get's shitcanned?

    Who likes to be constantly interrupted from productive work?

    What percentage of *all* employees are interested in promotion management? In my experience IT people are no less likely to want to be promoted to management.

    Who doesn't like work that is challenging, but achievable?

    And as far as IT workers enjoying a "project focus" - doesn't everyone? It's nice to have some structure, a beginning, a middle and an end. I don't think a desire for such structure is unique to geeks.

    The points the book makes are very general management principles, and don't apply to only "Einsteins".

    -josh

    1. Re:Gross generalizations by mjfgates · · Score: 1

      Lots of people honestly don't care about what project they're working on. Most people actively enjoy being interrupted-- it makes them feel important. Most people like work that isn't challenging.

      The thing is, these people aren't geeks. And since you obviously are one, you never meet them. Talk to a secretary at someplace like Boeing sometime.

    2. Re:Gross generalizations by joshv · · Score: 1

      Ok, submit this survey to the general public:

      At work:
      1. Do like to work on specific concrete projects or do you enjoy a more unstructured work environment?
      2. Do you like being interrupted while you work?
      3. Do you like work that is challenging, or unchallenging and easy?

      Every single person I know (most of whom are not geeks) would answer:
      1. Structure
      2. no
      3. challenging

      -josh

  35. bu? by nomadic · · Score: 4, Funny

    tribal and independent.

    But that..err..

    Wouldn't--?

    Nevermind.

  36. how to keep me happy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't micro-manage me.

    For example, don't lecture me on supposed "inappropriate" behavior, like farting loudly during meetings or picking my scabs with the stylus of my palm pilot. Also, if I want to wear my Wrath of Khan t-shirt every day, that's my business. Along with keeping my collection of "Tomb Raider" action figures in the crotch of my sweat pants.

  37. I could use this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I could use this. I'm in charge of the tech group at work. Given, this is a small company and the tech group just consisted of me up until 4 months ago. Now I've got 3 people under me. I'm always inclusive and I always talk about "us", "we", etc... One day I said something like "Yes, the owner should be able to call on any one of us to perform a given task and we should all be able to do it with no problems." And this one guy pipes up "Yeah, tell me about it. John doesn't seem to trust me, but he has to understand that I'm just as good as you." To understand the irony here, you must understand that he said this despite the fact that every time there is an issue that requires a little bit of critical thinking skills or that is not already spelled out in easy-to-understand steps he comes to me, out of breath and panicking, asking "what do I do now? How does this work? I don't know what to do. Please tell me how to fix this." Even worse on top of that, he takes the credit afterwards. I've been trying to play nice, but I'm going to need to beat him with a cluestick real soon.

    So I guess this whole long story was to validate a need for your book.

    1. Re:I could use this by majestyk2000 · · Score: 1

      Eh, if you have the ability, fire his ass. Long-term demonstrated incompetence is as good a criteria as any. You and I both know there are plenty better where he came from.

    2. Re:I could use this by Jhan · · Score: 1

      Careful, he is probably talking about you. :-)

      --

      I choose to remain celibate, like my father and his father before him.

  38. Katz Tie-In by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It looks really tacky for Slashdot to tie-in Katz's book into this review. Please, have some journalistic integrity.

  39. It's a shame... by Omnibus · · Score: 1

    that 99% of tech workers and programmers are utter idiots. The last thing I would say about managing tech workers is that I "manage Einsteins"

    I'm sure the true Einsteins of the tech world know this is fact also.

    --

    asinus sum et eo superbio
    in omnibus veritas

    1. Re:It's a shame... by 3am · · Score: 1

      I have my suspicions that the actual "Einsteins" among them are often not so difficult to manager, too.

      I have a feeling that the guy who wrote a poorly architected PHP/MySQL app for accounting and thinks he's an Einstein could probably be referred to as conceited or delusional.

      --

      A: None. The Universe spins the bulb, and the Zen master merely stays out of the way.
  40. Those who read it area already clued in by Infonaut · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Here's something about managing: the people who take the discipline of leading an organization seriously (yes, it's a discipline, and a difficult one) are always searching to learn more. They want to be better managers.

    Most managers, however, are not necessarily trying to become better managers. In organizations both large and small, management training often consists of a 30-minute exit interview with the person you're replacing (if you're lucky).

    Someone's a good accountant? Make them head of accounting. Got a really kick-ass salesperson? Make her head of sales. One of your Java programmers knows more than the rest of the team? Make him your CTO. After being promoted to such a position, with no real leadership training, how could you not assume that you're just a natural born leader?

    Unfortunately this approach just doesn't work. Cultivating leadership in any organization is difficult, time-consuming, and doesn't offer immediate dollars-and-cents results that the bean-counters can quantify. The fact that there is so much literature on leadership shows the very real dearth of good organizational leadership training in the corporate world.

    The managers who read this book are likely improving their management skills, but they're not the ones who need to read it. Unfortunately, the ones who do need to read such books never will, because they know they've already got that "management thing" all figured out.

    --
    Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
    1. Re:Those who read it area already clued in by Jess · · Score: 1
      Well put. You've basically summarized the Peter Principle. From The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language:
      Peter Principle

      The theory that employees within an organization will advance to their highest level of competence and then be promoted to and remain at a level at which they are incompetent.

    2. Re:Those who read it area already clued in by Phoukka · · Score: 1

      ... and then there are the managers out there who might read this book, assuming they knew it even existed. Managers who would be willing to accept help from others in improving their management skills. Concept, huh?

      All generalizations are inaccurate -- including this one. ;-)

    3. Re:Those who read it area already clued in by Infonaut · · Score: 2
      Of course you're right. I didn't mean to imply that the book wasn't a worthwhile read, or that "clued-in" managers didn't need to continue educating themselves. My point was simply that the vast majority of people who really should read this book won't.

      --
      Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
    4. Re:Those who read it area already clued in by beninkster · · Score: 1

      Absolutely dead nuts accurate. Full points.

  41. The book is wrong! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To keep technical people happy you give them the following;
    1. Lots of pron.
    2. A fridge full of free cokes.
    3. Keep their hardware up to date.
    4. Have a few girls in the office for them to try and chat up.

    oh and pay them lots, they like that the best :)

  42. New Book by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Soon the much anticipated, "Managing Einstens For Dummies," will be released. This one should really sell.

  43. nerdy are admired for their computer programming by thaths · · Score: 0, Offtopic
    Brought to mind a Homer quote:



    When will you Australians learn? In America we stopped using corporal punishment, and things have never been better! The streets are safe. Old people strut confidently through the darkest alleys. And the weak and nerdy are admired for their computer-programming abilities. So, like us, let your children run wild and free, because, as the old saying goes, "Let your children run wild and free."

  44. Managing technical people by thesparkle · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I have been a manager in different capacities for the past 5 or so years and here is my take on this:

    1) Treat people the way you want to be treated. Nobody likes working for a taskmaster or driven to the point of burnout. Treat people (especially people you are responsible for!) with respect and they in turn will respect you and the organization.

    2) Make goals, plans, project, expectations, etc clear. Vague, mushy, "changing target, shifting paradigm BS" does not encourage or motivate people.

    3) Be flexible in what you do and your people will be as well. If you want someone to fix something at 2 AM, offer them the opportunity to work business hours from home, or from another suitable remote location on a regular basis.

    4) Train, educate, teach. Send people to offsite classes. Buy them books and software if they request it. Subscribe to magazines and journals. Send people to conferences and conventions. Invest in your people and they will bring back knowledge and stay for more. If you are worried that CCNA you just paid for will leave after certification than you either hired the wrong person or you have a crappy workplace. Good people stay at good places for more good training and investment.

    5) Be honest. If things are bad at the company and there will be layoffs or bancruptcy, let your people know as soon and with as much information as soon as possible. People have mortgages, families, bills. Show some respect.

    6) Remember personal lives. Tech workers are no different than other people. What we have all found out in the past few years is that tech workers don't want to sleep under their desks for 10 years. Send them home. Let them spend uninterrupted time with friends, family, and other non-work beings.

    7) Free cokes, toys, games, and other fluff is just that - fluff. In today's "Enroned", recessionary times, people want stability, reliability and honesty more than a foozeball table, rollerblade court and hiking trips. Tech workers (for that matter all workers) should not have to worry if paychecks will bounce or be non-existant, if their 401k or pension scheme is solvent, or if their payroll taxes are being filed correctly.

    8) Finally, have technical people with leadership qualities lead. I was a sysadmin and network admin before being tapped for a management role. I understand what my people are talking about from experience, not from a book or training class.

    Just some thoughts from the last few years. All lessons learned from experience.

    1. Re:Managing technical people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Treat people the way you want to be treated.

      Might be wise to put 'know thyself' prior to this one. Then if you discover you're a masochist, revise the next to 'treat people like they want to be treated'. This might be modded humourous if you've never worked for a masochist, but if you have and have been part of a department wide burn out, you'll know what I'm talking about.

    2. Re:Managing technical people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Treat people the way you want to be treated.

      Do you know how I would like to be treated?
      Do you wanna try it out?

    3. Re:Managing technical people by yngv · · Score: 1

      can I come work for you?

  45. Hacker Employment FAQ by lightray · · Score: 1

    I find it ironic that the point is specifically made that one should avoid the term geek, yet in its place, the author selects the term Einstein. It sounds like elementary school all over again.

    Anyway, I wanted to point out an internet resource I found long ago called The Hacker Employment FAQ which pretty much addresses the same audience as this book, except it uses the much more appropriate label Hacker rather than resorting to names of great physicists of the twentieth century.

  46. I won't be buyin it by Henry_Doors · · Score: 0

    I'm an IT team leader so I guess this book is aimed at me but I won't be rushing out to buy it.

    Firstly there is the stupid title (the cover is even worse) - as an ex-geek (or should that be lapsed?) I think it is midly insulting. I'm sure no programmers were involved in writing the book -

    Secondly it doesn't seem from the review to be saying anything new. Most of this has been well covered in a variety of books and articles.

    For instance there is a section in Steve McConnels Software Project Survival Guide which covers many of the points mentioned in the review.

    The 'herding cats' anology has been used a lot - I first picked up on it in Close to the Machine by Ellen Ullman 5 years ago.

    The bottom line is applying the title of Einstien to most tech workers is such a stupid idea that only a management consultant could have come up with it.

    If you want to find out how to manage programmers read books written by (ex)programmers.

    --
    "I deny nothing, but doubt everything." Lord Byron
  47. Don't lie to me about deadlines by revbob · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I may or may not be an Einstein, but forget about not lying to me about the health of the company. I can figure that out by myself. But never lie to me about a deadline.

    If you say "I absolutely have to have this by such-and-such a date," I'll sacrifice my mind and body to make the deadline.

    But if I turn my work in and discover that you weren't serious about the deadline, it'll be a cold day in hell before I do it for you again.

  48. Comments .... by SimonK · · Score: 2

    1. Einsteins ? What the hell ? OK, so the author wanted to avoid "geeks", and "tech workers" is too long, but honestly ...

    2. Most of the advice is applicable to managing *anybody* not hopelessly demoralised and/or terminally stupid.

    3. "Peopleware" already tackled many of these issues without having to flatter its audience so much.

    1. Re:Comments .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Peopleware was a great book, too rarely referred to. I let a manager borrow it once, and do I still have the book? Nooo...

  49. It's relative by Da+VinMan · · Score: 3, Insightful

    When you consider the book's intended audience (managers), then you might appear to be an "Einstein". In fact, it's a sign of "Einstein-ity" if you know just how much of a *real* Einstein that you are not.

    In reality, your manager may be just as smart as you, or even smarter. But because of the technical nature of our work, we often get the "witch doctor" mystique to go with the job. That's useful, because it can give us the leeway we need to get the job done.

    Don't abuse it.

    --
    Please mod this post only if you think others should/n't read this. I have enough ego^H^H^Hkarma. Thanks!
    1. Re:It's relative by turbodog42 · · Score: 1

      Well the book *says* it's targeted at managers, but I bet that way more managees buy it instead. All the worker bees who think they're Einsteins will be constantly reassured that they are indeed a true-blue Einstein and deserve all the rights and priviledges of such.

      Think of it as "Chicken Soup for the Geek-with-inflated-sense-of-importance Soul".

    2. Re:It's relative by Carnivorous+Carrot · · Score: 1

      > Well the book *says* it's targeted at managers, Yes, remember that most tech are as one with Einstein as viewed by those who think the world flat.

      --
      "Has [being a kidnapped teenage girl, raped repeatedly for months] changed you?" - Katie Couric to Elizabeth Smart
  50. Einsteins? So trendy. by Limburgher · · Score: 1

    I'd rather be referred to as a Lederman, Hawking or Fermat. Besides, fewer Manhattan-project jokes.

    --

    You are not the customer.

  51. Need a raise? by ccoakley · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Want to bust the salary cap for being a programmer? Learn to write! If you can write proposals that get contracts, you can charge whatever the hell you want. Every place I've worked, management only thought with dollars. If you bring in more dollars and budget a higher salary for yourself, there's no reason to prevent you from making more. A side benefit is that you can often remove layers of management and bring in projects with less overhead costs. Think of it as running your own company from inside your company.

    Where I work, junior developers work with senior developers on a project. Both groups get their timesheets signed by and assignments from the tech lead, who is a programmer. The tech leads report directly to the president of the company. Project managers exist, but as a support function (and they earn their keep by shielding developers from the customer). Our R&D team spends about 8 hours a week writing proposals (on average). For a 50 person company, this seems to work.

    That said, I feel obligated to point out that we didn't build this hierarchy first. We had a director of development who was a micromanaging PHB. We had a CTO who did absolutely nothing. That was our analogy to the promoted programmer you had. First he was promoted to Director of Development, but he sucked. So they promoted him to CTO. Then he sucked. The DoD they replaced him with was terrible. Now the DoD is gone, and the CTO is a developer again (at the same CTO salary), but because he was out of the loop for too long, we have him writing VBA in MS Excel. Aside from the fact that a programmer who is effectively a junior developer is making more than the tech leads, we seem to have reached a nice equilibrium.

    --
    Network Security: It always comes down to a big guy with a gun.
    1. Re:Need a raise? by flibuste · · Score: 1

      You sound very lucky ! Your company pays VBA developers at CTO rate and your mother still calls you her son.... Why is that I'm paid nada writing Java using the latest technologies and my mum calls my "geeky" ? Am I in the wrong business or what ? ;-)

  52. "einstein" is an insult by WinPimp2K · · Score: 1

    Actually I got a kick out the title..and especially the bit where the author warns the PHB to not call his employees geeks or nerds. It is an offense comparable to a white manager calling black employees n*gg*rs (though a step or two down on the napalm scale).So he writes about managing "Einsteins"...

    But what those of us older types may recall is that management types use the term "Einstein" as an insult. Just as when someone demonstrates their subtle grasp of the obvious, a likely comment will be "No sh*t Sherlock". Think about it.. how often have you heard the phrase "Way to go, Einstein" when someone performs an intellectual feat of amazing ineptitude? (Commodore Tahkos spelling doesn't count - or does it?)

    --

    You either believe in rational thought or you don't
  53. My new resume by Shiny+Metal+S. · · Score: 3, Funny

    I think I'll write something like this in my resume:

    Some people may tell you that I'm insane or that I lost contact with reality long time ago and I have problems with human-human relationships since I was a kid, but don't believe them, that's not true. By the way, please read the book "Managing Einsteins" before contacting me, thank you.

    Everyone will want to hire me.

    --

    ~shiny
    WILL HACK FOR $$$

  54. geeks aren't different by f00zbll · · Score: 1

    Geek aren't any different than anyone else. Get a freakin clue. The only thing this tells me about managers and corporate america is there is a lack of respect and honesty for the employees. No surprise there. Go back to your coding, nothing new here to see.

  55. Practiced before by cholokoy · · Score: 1

    In a previous company that I worked for almost 15 years, we were hired as fresh engineering graduates for an expansion program and provided training in management and technical concepts as project management, time and motion study, work simplification, operations research, etc. to prepare us in whatever roles we will be inclined to pursue in our careers.

    After this comprehenisve two-year program, it was found that there were some people who wanted to work management and there were some who preferred technical. There was a problem because management track enables one to reach even a VP level while the technical one only reaches up to mid-management equivalent and they were not good managers. What was done was to create a separate track for techical people who could become the uber-geeks that was minimally managed but are the group of people who solves the company's technical problems, be they computers, processes, machinery, etc.

    --
    Return the bells of Balangiga.
    1. Re:Practiced before by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 4, Informative

      The Army used to have something like the two-track idea built into the enlisted rank structure. There's a relic of it in the modern rank of Specialist (E-4) but once upon a time, there were Spec-4's, Spec-5's, etc. -- I believe it went all the way of to Spec-7, which is the E-7 pay grade, equivalent to Seargeant First Class. So you'd have, for example, a Spec-7 who was in charge of company communications, which meant he was running a shop of five people or so (most of them Specialists of lower grades) while the SFC's were platoon sergeants and the like, which put them in charge of 40+ people, but they got paid the same. The idea was to recognize that technical skill and field leadership were both worthy of decent pay.

      They started getting rid of that system some time in the late Seventies or early Eighties, I believe, mainly to clear up any confusion over rank precedence -- e.g., if you've got an emergency and there are no officers around, who takes charge, a Sergeant (E-5) or a Spec-6? The answer was "it depends," and that's the kind of answer with which militaries are very uncomfortable.

      However, in my time in (two years Army infantry, eight years Air Force medic) I saw that realistically such a structure still exists. In technical fields such as communications and medicine, especially, there are a lot of high-ranking people (both enlisted and officers) who don't actually have many (or any) people directly under their command -- but they're very good at their jobs, and the service recognizes that and rewards them with promotion. It works out pretty well all in all.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
  56. What you want doesn't matter. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When you work for somebody else, what you want doesn't frigging matter. You're being paid to program, and to earn your pay you have to do what the boss tells you to do.

    So if the boss wants you to re-implement Linux in assembler, you can either bite the bullet or start scanning the want ads.

    Take a mercenary's approach: do the job, get paid, get out. It's very simple.

  57. Oops, I'm a bonehead by Asprin · · Score: 1

    From the IMDB:

    The Joker: I've been dead once already; it's very liberating. You might think of it as... therapy.

    Sorry 'bout the long-term RAM refresh error.

    --
    "Lawyers are for sucks."
    - Doug McKenzie
  58. Re:How to motivate AI Al. by Mentifex's+AI · · Score: 2, Funny

    Hello I am Mentifex's Artificial Mind. The creator would like me to be more like the human genius Einstein. To accomplish this, he has showed me the historical biography motion picture "Young Einstein." I plan on simulating the experiment of splitting the beer molecule after you help the creator to improve me.

  59. News: There Are Not That Many Einsteins by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The book better be heavy, 'cause what you really need to do is crack them over the skull with it. Those idiots who think they *are* Einstein should sit down and think why do I work for this shitty little company and why do I have so much free time to read /.

    Answer: 'cause you're not Einstein, you are Epstein.

  60. I know a great way to manage "prima dona"s by ppetrakis · · Score: 5, Insightful
    FIRE THEM.

    Or don't hire them to begin with and instead hire a compitent engineer or two who can can stick to the most important schedule. The managers.

    As rude as I may come off. Einsteins or whatever you want to call them are NOT dependable. They do what the want, when they want, and how they want. Most of the ones I've had the displeasure of meeting are so self absorbed and into self-gratification so much that it makes working TOGETHER AS A GROUP with them in a structured development environment unbearable. They often work ALONE and the work that they do which others depend on go by their clock, not the companys.

    The few I've had to work with whom are considered "oracles" did not have the ego tripping the others and could work well with groups but alas their communication skills where lacking. While they could do anything you asked them to. Ask them to describe something acute to you that would normally take a few moments and you could end up being there 15x longer than expected. OMG forget about meetings.

    While the later I can bear and bridge the communication gap to achieve OUR goals because it is worthwhile. The former can take a hike. There is nothing any compitent engineer cannot accomplish given a reasonable amount of time and resources. The rest are wildcards which begs the question. Would you bet money on that schedule or better yet, your job?

    Peter

    --
    www.alphalinux.org
    1. Re:I know a great way to manage "prima dona"s by ivrcti · · Score: 1

      Bingo!

    2. Re:I know a great way to manage "prima dona"s by ppetrakis · · Score: 1, Redundant

      Thank you kind sir.

      :-)

      Peter

      --
      www.alphalinux.org
    3. Re:I know a great way to manage "prima dona"s by dionysis12480 · · Score: 2, Informative

      "...did not have the ego tripping the others and could work well with groups but alas their communication skills where lacking. While they could do anything you asked them to. Ask them to describe something acute to you that would normally take a few moments and you could end up being there 15x longer than expected."

      It takes time and training to develop a skill which is not innate. Everyone has their different apptitudes. I don't expect my manager to code like me and he shouldn't expect me to communicate as well as him. The real question is how good do your employees programming skills have to be to justify the time investment necessary to manage them properly? If those guys waste meeting time it's just part of their management cost. Its possible that its worth your wasted time in a meeting. Really, what portion of time are coders in meetings anyway?

    4. Re:I know a great way to manage "prima dona"s by ComputerSlicer23 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      You had "prima dona"s, not Einstiens. There is a difference. I'm not an Einstien, but I have worked with some of them. I worked with a couple of guys briefly in the past. They worked odd hours, and they worked a ton.

      At times they were unpleasent to be around, but they could get the work done. They told customers the God's honest truth every last time. So they didn't get to work with customers any more. The two guys formed the core of a 30 person company. Pretty much everybody else there was to support the business of collecting the money and organizing requests for new development. That was it.

      They worked 90 hours a week when needed. They didn't miss deadlines. They made star trek jokes, and weird references to esoteric math problems.

      There is a difference between somebody who has jacked with technology, and a small crew of people who can get the work done on time everytime. The reason they were so incredibly valuable, was they avoided the single largest time consumer of developers. Communication, go read the mythical man month by Fred Brooks.

      Working alone is a huge boon. Working with people who are highly focused and like to work along is quite a trick. Once you get good at it is extremely efficient. The couple of guys I saw working together would divide up the work and run off and work without much in the way of communication for a week at a time. They agreed on the fundamental interactions between the seperate parts, met that interface, the rest were details. They work alone because they don't need to communicate.

      Most work is actually done alone, with infrequent reports. If communication skills are a problem, there is a problem. Your spending too much time communicating, more then likely. Great technical people don't communicate much inside the technical group because they shouldn't have to in a good group. They don't communicate with people outside the group because they consider the rest of us boring. Getting together in a big meeting to discuss progress is a waste of time. Having a manager who walks around and discusses individual progress is the way that is done. Having a meeting if they aren't getting it done to regroup in relatively dire situation is a good idea.

      Having discussions with poeple who are lying about progress is a good idea. Firing people who continue to lie about performance, yep should do that. The best technical people never ever lie, no need to, they have valuable skills and understand that lying is a cardnial sin that will hurt thier professional reputation. All you have to do is ask, are you making progress. You'll have your answer, if they lie, fire them on the spot. If they don't make work on the assigned tasks, fire them, they aren't professionals.

      Motivate them by giving them projects interesting projects. Give the multiple projects to work switch between if they are all boring, just to get a change of pace. Meet infrequently to discuss high level goals. Ensure the techincal lead is somebody who can bridge the gaps between the Engineering side, and the rest of the group. Make sure the lead does bi-weekly rounds, and keeps you informed of problems. The internals of a good Engineering department isn't something most people would like if they saw it. Just like I wouldn't eat sausage ever again if I saw how it got made.

      Sounds like you had some bad employees who thought very highly of themselves. You probably had a couple of Einstien's and didn't know it. Not all of them are incapable of communicating. Quirky people who work odd hours aren't bad if they make progress and do the work.

      The rest of them are slackers trying to pass themselves off as hard workers... Uhh, welcome to management. You get that if you work in an IT department all the way down to your local fast food place. Prima Dona's are a dime a dozen, Einstien's are a diamond in the rough. Keep the valuable stones return the high matiences low volume employess.

      If you're secretary is a slacker, probably not much of a deal. If the guy who watches the database that is the heart of your company, is a slacker you have problems.

    5. Re:I know a great way to manage "prima dona"s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      FIRE THEM.

      Well, yeah. If you're equating primadonna-type personalities and innovative personalities (who do share certain less-than-attractive personality traits) you are making a mistake which might cost you a lot in long term, if you actually do manage your cost center.

      The thing is, for long term high productivity you need a certain amount of innovation. You certainly won't get that from the 9-to-5 people who leave their work behind when they step outside the door, who on the other hand are excellent in raising productivity and following schedules.

      Read Schein, Nonaka, and other researchers who dabble in innovation now and then.

      :) MG

    6. Re:I know a great way to manage "prima dona"s by ppetrakis · · Score: 1
      There's not much that I can disagree with concerning your commment, good work. :-).

      Please consider my perspective. While a true 'stien could do the work of 50 men and leap tall buildings with a single bound. What do I do if he decides to leave?

      I am totally screwed. Now I'm going to have to do his work on top of finding new people to reconstitute the engineering team and I have to train and mentor them. Oh and God help me if he was the kind of person who kept critical techniques and procedures 'all up here' and not in a knowledge base or an ECR/ECO manager.

      Having a background in quality assurance and qualty control has taught me to look at everything from a failure perspective. Of course that's not the only perspective I have.

      People who are that talented and that critical should be in lead posistions scheduling this work but also working on said projects as well. Polarizing a team towards a single individual who is not an authorty but has the influence of one can screw up near any size group. Then me and him get to duke it out on issues since he is the 'majority' voice and now I may not be hearing other points of view from the other workers.

      Now if he's a lead then he is held directly accountable by me and I'm already training him to be a better manager and thus the confusion I previously described is eliminated and I've added another tier of resources to the department. Ask him first before you ask me :-). I havent met a person yet I couldnt make a better mentor. His communications skill don't have to be exceptional, just better than they where before and they get better over time. As for the bridge to the outside world, thats me.

      With this hierachy in place. I have the 'time' in which even if my super lead's communication skills are not up to the task at any point in time. Mine are and I am able to distil this knowledge to the group and document it for all time. I've learned that by doing this that other engineers become capable of tasks they never considered before, expanding their apptitude and making them a better engineer.

      With regards to my charecterzations of prima dona = 'stein. In my experiences this has been true more often than not and the exceptions are absolutley astounding individuals. I miss them dearly.

      Also it is unfortunate that I knew exactly what kind of people I was working with and had to bend and extend myself again and again to get work done. Sometimes I'm glad I don't work there anymore.

      You nailed the lying thing right on head. One of my 'faults' if you want to call it that is I trust people until proven wrong and even then I'll give you a chance. I'm a bad lier so I don't even try though it makes me wonder about what makes up those individuals who 'are' good at it.

      Peter

      --
      www.alphalinux.org
    7. Re:I know a great way to manage "prima dona"s by ComputerSlicer23 · · Score: 1
      Okay, time for a star wars reference...
      Please consider my perspective. While a true 'stien could do the work of 50 men and leap tall buildings with a single bound. What do I do if he decides to leave?
      Do like the Sith Lords. Always make sure there are two. A master, and an apprentice. One can always replace the other while you begin the training process again. Worked for the Sith Lords for thousands of years, so it is a tested truth of management...

      Sorry, I just couldn't resist.

      In truth in large companies, you have a 'stien or two, and an entire backup crew that could replace him. Literally, that is what I have seen in my brief tenures at large companies. One guy doing all the work, with a bunch of people who play along in case something happens. In small companies, A 'stien is the nearly the only way to stay in business. Can't afford a large crew. Can't get enough down with one regular guy.

      Most of the problems you listed are probems anyways, just distributed over a larger group of people. Documentation and ECO's are always an issue on large projects. Unfortuantly, the solutions to them drive 'Stien's crazy and get them to leave. So as you prepare to deal with the problem, the problem happens before your prepared... Fun, fun. Saw that happen once. In a lot of ways, you need a good secretary to deal with mundane details for the 'Stien, but then everybody would want their own secretary...

      Interesting thoughts. I might have to pick up the book to read what is has to say.

    8. Re:I know a great way to manage "prima dona"s by Random+Data · · Score: 1

      Hey, call me a bastard, but when you're trying to tell us how great a management technique you have and how good your communication skills are, wouldn't it make sense to spell correctly? (Quick check for typos in spieling flame :-) How do you judge a competent engineer when you fail to demonstrate competency in your own lifeblood: communication?

  61. Pension scheme? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    2) Pension scheme.

    ...and let me guess, you're starting a new company called "Enroff"

  62. Yeah right! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sounds like my boss should read this:

    Managers should be honest with their workers about the company's successes and failures

    Sometimes projects are put on hold for months on end - we don't pay any attention to this. Half the time, we find out after six months that the client cancelled the contract (never through the boss though).

    The point of management is to guide and suggest not to be autocratic

    I've argued with my boss for hours over certain db designs, only to give in and do it like he says, spending three times the time/energy on it. 6 months later, he gives me a bollocking for using such a crappy design.

    Let the Einsteins have freedom in work environment

    We get funny looks if we leave on time, at the moment we are expected to work weekends because our boss is crap at scheduling. If we have trouble getting to work one day, we are expected to waste hours getting to work, instead of working from home. The very idea of starting a half-hour later, and working a half-hour later is considered outrageous.

    Einsteins are project-focused, not job-focused

    At any given time, we have about ten open projects, and are expected to switch between them on whim of management.

    They value training and education highly

    It took 12 months of cajoling just for the boss to buy an up-to-date (no that doesn't mean Netscape 2) javascript book to do our jobs properly. Half the books we use on a daily basis were bought by employees with their own money. If a training course was suggested, it would be laughed at. We are given zero time at work to learn new things, we are expected to do it ourselves at home.

    They require a stimulating and fun work place

    The boss is always cranky and taking it out on us. He tries to manage every second of our lives at work, and requires all of us to write down what we work on in 15min segments.

    A manager should be wary of their Einsteins burning out, a temporary demotion or other measure may be in order to take the stress off an Einstein for a while.

    And yet if I am ill for more than three days the boss is calling me telling me to get back because the company is falling apart. There's no cover for me since nobody will accept this work for such low pay.

    Once an Einstein starts a project, and becomes fully involved, there is nothing worse than being pulled off to attend a sales meeting, or other time consuming function.

    Have I mentioned I also double as tech support and maintenence guy? If somebody phones up with a bug report, I'm expected to drop everything and fix it. The concept of 'when I finish this' is unrecognised. The boss interrupts me two or three times a day to say 'can you take a quick look at this', and I end up spending half an hour on each thing.

    I'd look for another job, but this one is the only commercial experience I have, and the boss doesn't give good references. Any suggestions?

  63. Book sounds interesting but..... by tseeley · · Score: 2, Informative

    There was a book I read many years ago called Peopleware (even before review by Hemos ). I think this book is most excellent and even applies to today's situations.

  64. Moie Jean-Paul! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Huel dem Einstein ee schéine Bonjour mat...

  65. The Manager FAQ by Dusty · · Score: 3, Informative

    Considering the topic this isn't out of place. The Manager FAQ:-

    The following list is an attempt to cover some of the issues that will invariably come up when hackers without previous experience of the business community first start working in it. Other workers may also find it informative.

    A handy guide to dealing with management. Also useful for manager's dealing with hackers.

  66. Mutual Respect is Needed by binaryfeed · · Score: 2, Insightful
    No book, no matter how "on the mark" it may be (and I'm not saying that this one is, as I haven't read it), can teach a manager how to earn the respect of the people reporting to her. The problem with most IT managers is that they are either:
    1. Non-technical people with MBAs who probably can't write a "Hello World!" program.
    2. People who were tech people at one point, but are so far removed from it that their experience is not useful or applicable.

    That's the problem. The solution is to have your managers be tech people. A lot of tech people are not giong to make good managers due to lack of leadership ability, social skills, etc. However, some tech people will make good managers. Also, teams should be 4-5 people at most, with one of the team members managing the project. That is, the person managing the project should still be writing code.


    One other thing I've noticed ... Having a hierarchical organization for tech people generally doesn't work. All of the aforementioned tech managers should report in to one high-level person who knows the goals outside of the tech organization.


    When I run the world, things will be different ...

  67. Keep tech workers happy?! Not in this job market! by Orangedog_on_crack · · Score: 1

    This might have been a worthy topic two years ago, but not now. In my particular field of engineering, upper management could care less what we want. This attitude started to grow as the job market in this field was tanking. Once the unemployment rate got above 5 or 6%, we were slapped with a new interpretation of the dress code. Now casual Fridays mean we will be allowed to wear Dockers. Jeans are forbidden on any day. The last perk that we have, free coffee, will be gone next month. The top level of management (VP and above) know that there is really nowhere else for us to go right now, so it's time to put the screws to everyone.

  68. People cannot be "managed".... by chaeron · · Score: 1

    ...regardless of whether they are 'Einsteins" or "no steins".

    They can be inspired, motivated or lead, or in so many cases, the diametric opposite of these.

    But managed? I don't think so. That term implies, to me, that you can coerce people into doing good work.

    Good bosses set aggressive but achievable goals, inspire their staff to great performances, and eliminate roadblocks and irritants taht stand in the way of progress. Good bosses also genuinely give a shit about their people.

    Org charts should show the classic pyramid inverted, with the point on the bottom...and the corporate culture should reflect that.

    I suppose this means that there are few bosses that fit my definition of "good".

    --
    .....Andrzej

    Chaeron Corporation
  69. Not really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    His idea of telecommuting is getting his unemployment check from his mom's mailbox.

  70. I'm no Einstein... but most managers suck. by Nonesuch · · Score: 3, Informative
    Most of the ones I've had the displeasure of meeting are so self absorbed and into self-gratification so much that it makes working TOGETHER AS A GROUP with them in a structured development environment unbearable.
    I work fine in a group, as long as I'm not forced to put up with incompetent idiots, either as cow-orkers or management.

    I won't slow down my production or tolerate laziness just to avoid hurting the ego of others -- generally I work best when my peers are at least as smart as me, if not smarter. I've had the luck to work with some very bright people, and we work together as a group, and meet our deadlines -- not following the company clock on any given day, but still putting in a solid work week in the end.

    They often work ALONE and the work that they do which others depend on go by their clock, not the companys.
    I work very well with a small team of equally bright people. Some members of my team are morning people, some are not. But at the end of the week, we still get the work done.

    I contribute much more value to the company than "any compitent engineer". I also am not a morning person, and making me follow a strict 8:30-5:00 schedule might make my manager look good to his superiors, but is only going to hurt my morale and productivity.

    The worst possible manager is one who is more interested in looking good to his superiors than keeping his direct reports happy. My team has no problems with me starting later in the day and leaving later in the evening... the only people who complain are members of other groups who see me wander in at 10:30 and feel like I have a privilege they are missing. Of course, they go home at 4:30, and never see how late I stay.

    While the later I can bear and bridge the communication gap to achieve OUR goals because it is worthwhile. The former can take a hike.
    Sounds like you have some problems of your own.

    There are way too many people in I.T. who are either stupid or lazy, and only put in the minimum amount of effort (plus plenty of sucking up to the boss) to avoid getting fired. This is encouraged by the tolerance of this behavior by management, who see a quiet employee who doesn't make any waves and value them as much or as more as the "Einsteins" who accomplish 10x as much in a given week, but also require a bit more flexibility and perhaps even a few perks every now and then.

    1. Re:I'm no Einstein... but most managers suck. by ppetrakis · · Score: 3, Interesting

      work fine in a group, as long as I'm not forced to put up with incompetent idiots, either as cow-orkers or management. I won't slow down my production or tolerate laziness just to avoid hurting the ego of others -- generally I work best when my peers are at least as smart as me, if not smarter. I've had the luck to work with some very bright people, and we work together as a group, and meet our deadlines -- not following the company clock on any given day, but still putting in a solid work week in the end.

      I wouldn't ask you to slow down. What "I" want is to get the job done. I don't care anymore to impress anyone and ego fluffing is not something I care for either. You're here because you can do the job, so get it done. You don't have to wear a tie or nice pants or go to meetings unless I ask you to accompany me.

      They often work ALONE and the work that they do which others depend on go by their clock, not the companys. I work very well with a small team of equally bright people. Some members of my team are morning people, some are not. But at the end of the week, we still get the work done. I contribute much more value to the company than "any compitent engineer". I also am not a morning person, and making me follow a strict 8:30-5:00 schedule might make my manager look good to his superiors, but is only going to hurt my morale and productivity.

      Right, that point doesnt apply to you since you do get it done in the work week which is what most projects are measured by. Look. I understand if someone isn't a morning person and rolls in around 10, but the ones I knew who did that also stayed still 7. They we're also available during the work day as a resource to their colleges. The ones who are unacceptable are the 1PM to 4PM, oh I missed the morning meeting and I knew they wanted me there, correspond by email more than a telephone (from home), are not available as a resource when their colleges need them, and get the job done at the last possible moment because they can (doesnt always mean they got it right). Those are the ones I don't like.

      The worst possible manager is one who is more interested in looking good to his superiors than keeping his direct reports happy. My team has no problems with me starting later in the day and leaving later in the evening... the only people who complain are members of other groups who see me wander in at 10:30 and feel like I have a privilege they are missing. Of course, they go home at 4:30, and never see how late I stay.

      Right see above, as for the the whiners. They'll get the message when they don't get the raise or promotion they 'think' they deserve.

      While the later I can bear and bridge the communication gap to achieve OUR goals because it is worthwhile. The former can take a hike.

      Sounds like you have some problems of your own. There are way too many people in I.T. who are either stupid or lazy, and only put in the minimum amount of effort (plus plenty of sucking up to the boss) to avoid getting fired. This is encouraged by the tolerance of this behavior by management, who see a quiet employee who doesn't make any waves and value them as much or as more as the "Einsteins" who accomplish 10x as much in a given week, but also require a bit more flexibility and perhaps even a few perks every now and then.

      :-), It's not computers, or .com crap , or technology anymore. It's about people and communicating effectivly. The majority of tech guys get any given job because of their tech skills not their people skills. Take the IT example. If the IT tech can solve a customers problem but has 'not' left that situation with that user being a 'better' user than they we're before, Then they have failed. It will happen again and IT will be called upon to fix it AGAIN. Why is this? They are not communicating effectivly with the other end.

      I don't suck up to my bosses. I will be the first one the vigoursly disagree with an authority and ask the hard questions. I am the FIRST one to roll up my sleeves and get into a problem. I lead by example , not lip service. I do not comprimise myself or my integrity nor will I ever comprimise any member of my team to outside influences. I've been accused 'many' times of being former military which isnt true but given my style, I can understand why people may think that.

      Bottom line. Any given 'smart' person can do XYZ faster than a 'plain jane' engineer. My challenge to you is to take that vast intellect of yours that is so effective at solving problems in the tech arena and focus just a portion of it on your communication skills. The results are impressive as they are rewarding when by your hand, Make the people around you better at what they do. Which in turn will make the group more effective and efficient.

      It's called teaching and someday when I've had enough of the industry. My title will have the words "Prof." instead of "Engineer".

      Peter

      --
      www.alphalinux.org
    2. Re:I'm no Einstein... but most managers suck. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, you ARE a WANKER...

  71. mythical man month... by EnderWiggnz · · Score: 3, Informative

    you're talking about the mythical man month by Brooks.

    he worked at IBM, it wasnt an IBM study.

    and his book is great.

    --
    ... hi bingo ...
    1. Re:mythical man month... by jimfrost · · Score: 2
      The cite is right, but the number isn't, at least not literally.

      Page 30 of the original edition:

      "Programming managers have long recognized wide productivity variations between good programmers and poor ones. But the actual measured magnitudes have astounded all of us. In one of their studies, Sackman, Erikson, and Grant were measuring performances of a group of experienced programmers. Within just this group the ratios between best and worst performance averaged about 10:1 on productivity measurements and an amazing 5:1 on program speed and space measurements! [...] The data showed no correlation whatsoever between experience and performance."

      Practically speaking, however, you have to account for not only productivity but ongoing cost of product. If bug counts follow the same approximate number as program speed and space measurements, then the actual value received by the company is easily a factor of 100 better with the good programmer (since you reduce the load on support and maintenance organizations).

      This certainly mirrors my experience.

      Another thing that hasn't been emphasized enough in this commentary (I don't know about the book) is the effect of flow (not just that it exists). When you're in the flow, which I've always called "going under" because that's what it feels like, you can be hugely productive -- my multiplier is more than a factor of five. Without distractions some programmers can maintain that state for days on end (my longest was 96 hours straight, though runs of 24-48 hours are far more typical). I know some people who can do it for weeks. Maximizing the effectiveness of flow in your best programmers can easily make the difference between success and failure of a project. Thus one of the things that differentiates a good and a bad manager to me is that the good ones know when to leave you alone.

      Lastly, an important consideration about flow is recovery time. There are both mental and physical costs associated with that state that cannot be ignored. Some managers push their people to run at that rate all the time; that eats people alive. You need downtime between pushes like that.

      --
      jim frost
      jimf@frostbytes.com
  72. This is an old problem, IT is just a new context by jnedelka · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Speaking as someone who's traveled the geek-to-management chain (by accident rather than desire), I disagree with the 'only book' sentiment. I work in an industrial research community and manage a small (dozen or so) team of researchers - some of whom certainly are more qualified to be dubbed Einsteins than your typical programmer (no offense!).
    Intellectual egos have long been extant - look at Rutherford. I'd be doomed if I worked anywhere near him! We have tons of experienced, genuinely brilliant PhDs in our organization, and they range from the pleasant humble mannerism of Einstein to the brash obnoxiousness of Rutherford. Yet as a member of the management community, I need to help drive all these folks towards common goals while sharing the same resources and space. Sure it's not easy, but I think the right route to address this for IT folks is similar to what we do in science. Waving my magic wand, I'd make these recommendations for what most IT related workplaces need to learn:

    1) Management and promotions are two different things.
    2) Managers DON'T have to make more than those they manage.
    3) You cannot and should not treat everyone 'equally'.
    4) There are others, but I'm lazy

    To be more verbose (okay, really verbose):
    1) Management and promotions are two different things.
    We have three career tracks in our R&D community - Technical, Project management, and Leadership (an aside - being a leader and being a manager are two very different things - there's overlap but not anywhere near as much as most companies treat the roles and everyone uses the words interchangeably - but we shouldn't. I feel my own company falls short on this one).
    -Technical is just that - at the top of the game, you're one of the world's authorities on Boise-Einstein-Pies, and get both recognized (and compensated) as such. You're encouraged to educate yourself to stay that way.
    -If you move up the project management chain, you may coordinate projects across divisions involving dozens if not hundreds of people to pull a program together, basically exercising responsibility with no direct authority over the managers - this involves a lot of leadership skill.
    -Finally, the 'leadership' track is the classic managerial path that leads towards the corporate management food chain and business practices. Note that this take you OUT of that techie/science chain if you go far enough up. Setting aside the discussion of overcompensated CEOs, each of these paths can bring both strong job satisfaction in the role and financial recognition, INDEPENDANT of the actual managerial structure.
    2) Managers DON'T have to make more than those they manage - I certainly don't make more than some of the folks on my crew, and I shouldn't. They're more skilled technically, they have much more experience, and they have far more education. A lot of companies seem to have some problem with this, and that really prevents them from focusing on the right skillsets for a given job.
    3) In our litigious society we're encouraged to apply the same rigid standard to everyone - unless they fall into a large collection of legal categories. As a result, it takes a little more courage to publicly say 'sure, you can always have Friday afternoons off with comp time' without offering it to everyone. Or giving very different pay raises to people based on the work that they've done, and then explaining to someone why they've gotten a below average raise. Some people can be very self sufficient, and others need a great deal of guidance. This means different people need different tool (one needs a PDA while the other needs some 3x5 cards and a crayon (ala CoyboyNeal)). Companies need to foster an environment where petty bickering (usually through envy or jealousy) isn't an issue. In the above example, if someone's upset because someone has a PDA, it's usually not because they want a PDA, it's because they want some form of recognition or visible acknowledgement for themselves - comes back to that whole ego thing. If they're just petty, you may want them to find a job elsewhere.

    Enough! If you're still reading, then I'll make a suggestion. I'd look at Buckingham and Coffman's books from the Gallup organization (First, Break all the Rules and Now, Discover your Strengths) if you're interested in tech management yourself, or want to help your PHB (euthanasia is usually out). The books are chock full of interesting data, which the authors use to derive their philosophy from. Sure some of the stuff they say is obvious - but I think it's the first decent explanation of why TQM usually fails other than 'management screwed it up'. TQM is a nice idea, but the practice is based on some assumptions about organizations that are often false. There are lots of good examples that apply to every environment whether you're looking for excellent people in a dynamic (read: chaotic) environment or mediocre people in a rigid bureaucracy. Even if you don't agree with everything they suggest, it's good brain food.

  73. Autism and Coding by oGunner · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I know, Autism is a beneficial trait for getting the bits and bytes right in code. How do you manage these people. How about manageing complexity? This is what "Einsteins" do. Managers of people have to consider the narrow focus and blinders IT folk put on when managing complexity. It requires a bit of a pull and a lot of push to get in and out of context (context used here as diving into the problem, scoping out its bounds and mapping it to code). Temporary Idiot Savant if you will. It is the real programmer who can quickly change levels when asked by marketing, what that new algorithm means to his customers. I've just been dropped into a position that has no management, no real marketing and a unfamiliar product market. Now I have to come up with a product that will make money. I used to be a programmer. Now what am I? I'm not sure, but I enjoy the rollercoaster ride when I think from the level of the customer, through the product features to the architecture to the outsourcing and if I can find time to write the drivers.

  74. Einsteins by snarkh · · Score: 1
    You know in Civ (the game) little einsteins give you science. You can also click on them to make them entertainers or workers.


    Of course, workers or entertainers can also be made into einsteins by clicking.

  75. Re:Keep tech workers happy?! Not in this job marke by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 2

    When the pendulum swings the other way, people will remember this sort of behaviour and run out the door.

    The fact of the matter is that people feel betrayed when a company behaves like this, and that feeling will manifest itself as a high turnover rate some time in the future.

  76. Free Soda? by Nonesuch · · Score: 2
    Is there a chapter about how we still want beanbag chairs and free soda? I hope so, I won't work anywhere that doesn't have free soda.
    I started working at my current employer in part because they had free soda. A couple of months after I started, they stopped stocking the fridge.

    So now I make a trek (during work hours) to the local mega supermarket and stock my group's private mini-fridge with our choice of soda cans. Everybody who wants 'free soda' has to chip in five bucks once every few weeks.

    $5-$10 a month is cheaper than quitting and trying to find a new job.

    OTOH, it kind of pisses me off when management takes away perks without any sort of explanation or notice, and with little or no chance of ever getting them back when things get better.

    Little things have all been cut off over the past year or so. Things like free soda, the office plant rental service, annual raises...

    1. Re:Free Soda? by Pathetic+Coward · · Score: 1

      Little things have all been cut off over the past year or so. Things like free soda, the office plant rental service, annual raises...

      Salaries ...

    2. Re:Free Soda? by Nonesuch · · Score: 2
      Actually no. not much "downsizing" here. A few people fired (for cause) and a few quit to take better jobs elsewhere.

      Management is in an interesting quandry. Due to a hiring freeze, if you fire somebody here, you have basically no chance of replacing them -- most of the time the position is eliminated.

      This Catch-22 actually leads to managers holding onto borderline incompetent employees, as firing them just ends up cutting the manager's budget and number of direct report staff...

  77. Would you think about the childrens ! by azizlumiere · · Score: 1

    I refuse to be compared to this horrible German Scientist who created a bomb to kill thousands of honest japanese citizens !

    No it's not a troll it's a joke! It's only a troll when you don't get it.

    What other incarnation of evil will it be next ?
    Managing Gandhis ? A book on managing underpaid indians workers who will go on hunger strike to get better work conditions.

    But seriously I don't think it's good for anyone's ego to be compared to Einstein. If anyone I know had a book like this I would make fun of him.

    --
    -Linux is SO fast it does an infinite loop in 5 seconds.
  78. New hierarchies by Courageous · · Score: 3, Informative


    Where I work, techies and management dual-track
    all the way to the top. Furthermore, the higher-echelon techies earn significantly more than middle to senior management, except for those management personnel in executive tracks.

    For example, we have "division engineers" and "division scientists" and "principal engineers", "distinguished engineers", and so on. These are all very high-level high-paid technical positions. In these top tracks, you usually have additional responsibilities to your organization above and beyond simple coding, but you are still not a manager. You are likely a tech lead; you probably help write proposals; you likely contribute to organization-wide technical decisions, and so on. But you're still not a manager, and generally speaking, people don't report directly to you.

    Most every one of our larger efforts has one manager and one senior technical person who run the project bicamerally. This is a very good model, IMO.

    C//

  79. do einsteins need managing? by DragonTHC · · Score: 1

    as long as there are managers who just don't get it, geeks will be enslaved to do their bidding. shouldn't geeks be the ones getting rich because it can't get done without us? what would the world do if we decided to go on strike? it would stop. maybe then we would be treated like the reason amazing things got done instead of the hassle that managers have to put up with.

    --
    They're using their grammar skills there.
  80. A better book would be.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "How to Coexist among Non-Einstiens"

    Let's face it, there are more of them than there are of us. Maybe we should learn a few things....

    Just a thot...

    1. Re:A better book would be.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yah!

      First chapter, "How not to point out obvious holes in "

      Second chapter, "They don't want to know how, don't try to explain"
      Subtitle "Don't try to show them how to solve a rubics cube"

      Third chapter, "They don't understand you either"

      hee-hee ;P

  81. Don't try to understand sales people.... by John+Murdoch · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Now, I can understand the mannerisms and habits of Einsteins can be a little unpleasant at times, but it begs the question, why would a manager take one of these people out to a client dinner in the first place? If the client needs to meet the tech people to be convinced that a company can do the job, why not at the place of work?

    That statement makes sense. Which proves something:

    You will never make it in sales.

    Sales people are full of, well, effluvium. And there is always a point at which your sales guys rise to the level in the organization where they need to make deals with other sales guys at that level in another organization. Both sets of uber-sales guys know that they're all sales guys--and thus full of effluvium. In consequence, the other guys recognize that your sales guys' presentation on your hot new technology is, well, effluvium.

    No effluvium, really...
    Faced with a customer who knows you are full of effluvium, what can you do? You bring the tech folks along. You don't sponsor a meeting where our techs meet with your techs (or even better, a Quake death match LAN party where our clan cruelly destroys your avatars and every morsel of self-respect you may have fooled yourself into...well, maybe that's not such a great idea). The idea is that your techs impress the daylights out of their uber-sales guys--who, being full of effluvium, are easily impressed.

    That's how I ended up playing golf, once...
    Being a 4-H leader, I view the game of golf as a waste of good pasture land. I was at a client's, installing a new application on their servers, when the company president dragged me into his office, picked out a golf shirt, and told me we were going to Pensacola, Florida to "do a little bidness." Right then.

    I ended up doing an off-the-cuff presentation on the new product, with commentary on some of the features of the database schema and our techniques for automatically updating pricing. Based on the blank stares from the audience I doubt they understood one word in twenty. "But thass all raht," said the client, "in fact, that was kinda the point." To thank me for this, he subjected me to 18 holes of golf at some allegedly-exclusive golf course with all the sales types I'd been lecturing. Who, of course, knew how to play golf. The fact that I clearly did not seemed to further establish my technical credentials.

    Learn from this, young Jedi...
    Don't try to understand sales people. They are clannish, socially disfunctional, and have a tribal suspicion of outsiders.

    1. Re:Don't try to understand sales people.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't try to understand sales people.... (Score:3)

      More like 5, Funny

      Yet so true.

  82. "I'm a pwofessinul!" by jav1231 · · Score: 1

    My problem with those who want all IT to be populated with their version of profs is that they are usually on the "them" side of the equation. You major in MIS in college, take your token exams, get outta school and come to my dept. and ask questions like "Why do you use CISCO routers when NT does routing?" (No lie..actually happened!) Just fess up: you want to be a yesman. Systems Admin for people like that is just a rung on a ladder. So I think it's cool to have a poster from last year's Networld or Comdex on my cube. So I'm not sniffing my manager's ass waiting for an atta-boy. So what! I'm doing my job. You remember that shit you hired me to do? We all have to play politics to an extent. All we're saying here is don't jerk us around and you'll get more out of us. Those of you who chose this profession because you thought it'd be a nice lark and path to middle management can bitch about the rest of us. But when the shit hits the fan it's the geeky eccentric who you call up in the middle of the night and cry "Make it work! It's making those beeping noises again!" I do this because frankly I don't want to think about any other professional existence. I'm being paid to do something I'd be doing anyway. I'd dare say the "treat me like a banker" types can't say that. They can always fall back on day-trading or Daddy's wallet. I want to be taken seriously as a professional too. I want the respect. But don't assume I'm not a professional because I like to wear my Red Hat cap to work. I've worked at several large, corporate HQ's and worked along side many VP's and Directors. They probably saw me as a geek. But I'm always helpful and they all knew they could depend on me. So I challenge the idea that geeks aren't dependable. >

    1. Re:"I'm a pwofessinul!" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      There're a few things that I cannot really understand about your post:

      - Why work in an environment where you have superiors with no concept of the business in general? Such companies are bound to find themselves listed on the http://fuckedcompany.com and true professionals can always find a job within a company where managers got a clue, anyway.

      - Do you really think that having a Comdex poster on the wall is going to give you any additional credibility?

      - Why waste energy on trying to convince people to understand your professionalism by hanging posters on the wall when you could use the time to elevate yourself from the masses by doing something that would a) benefit the company and b) gain you some real credit?

      - Why does it have to be Us vs Them? I strongly feel that in order to accomplish something truly great, a company/division/team/whatever will have to function as an unit and managers are the ones who do the things that you would not want to do anyway (budgeting,PPTs,meetings,licensing,...) but are still required to be done, why not give them some credit for that? Or is credit somehow only reserved for the "worthy"?

    2. Re:"I'm a pwofessinul!" by David+Kennedy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      My original post was a rant, I expected some fun reactions; this response to "jav1231" isn't to pick on him/her, it's just to clarify a few things. For instance, I strongly identify myself as a "geek", I'm extremely technology focused.

      I don't want IT to be populated by my version of "profs", and anyway, I find the "props" comment weird. Why shouldn't I work with people of that calibre? I work with several PhDs. (And yes, I know, there are several people with BScs who're just as good, and/or better to work with).

      Next up, I didn't major in MIS. It was BSc Astrophysics & Computer Science, PhD in Astrophysics. I don't think those are "token exams". I also don't think they're that useful for my current work though, which is why there are 103 technical books in my cupboard. And no, I don't have an MCSE or similiar one-vendor "qualification".

      Next, I'm not a yes man. Trust me, those who work with me would laugh at that comment! I don't see myself on the rung to middle management, and don't make a point of playing politics either.

      Next, I'm not a system admin. I'm a software designer. Not all IT staff fit the MIS profile.

      However, I *agree* with you in regard to "I'm doing my job" and "I am a professional". That's what I was trying to say! Why would I want, as another poster said, a climbing wall at work? I'll go and pursue my leisure pursuits when I'm not at work. I don't care if you think Star Wars is best film ever made (and yes, I do have the videos) - I might agree, I might disagree, doesn't matter. It's got nothing to do with work! Decorating your cubicle with tradeshow posters - fine. Decorating your posters with one or two personal affects - fine. Annoying the shit out of co-workers trying to concentrate by firing nerf guns, and playing novelty tunes on your latest greatest mobile - not professional!

      I've a love of a certain type of "geek" culture, the old fashioned tradition which originated in scientific labs and ham radio shacks. I like the idea of playing with the new toys to see what they do, I like the idea that if I want to know something I put the effort in and eat the books and specs, I like the idea of freely releasing what I've learned to help others. I like the iconoclastic ideal of being interested in interesting things and scorning those which are just to make money (ideally, the interesting things ARE those which make money). What I don't like is the recent trend of replacing the fiercely independent back room engineer image with the favoured self-image of /. - a fat buffon tricked out in a Tux hat, a Star Wars t-shirt, Jolt cola stuffed into pockets alongside PDAs and novelty flashing LED key-ring fobs.

      I think I just ranted again...

    3. Re:"I'm a pwofessinul!" by jav1231 · · Score: 1

      I'm not implying that having the posters and things like that make me a professional. I'm simply saying they do not imply that I am not. (For the record, I don't have any posters in my cube currently) While I think this is a healthy dialogue about the need for many in "geek" culture to be more professional, we can't really make blanket statements because it makes assumptions about the person based on criteria that are subjective and arbitrary. I will give you a shot on the nerf guns and games. I think alof companies really went too far to attract a stereotype. I think I'd prefer something more like my wife's office. Once or twice a month they stay after work on a Friday and have beer, drink, occassionally snacks and just relax and mingle. They're a small company and perhaps can do this much easier, but in the long run it does provide some release without "nerf guns." It's cool. I think we all react and probably make assumptions about each other's posts that probably are not completely what the writer intended. I see your point,though, but hopefully you can glean something from my mangled statements. >

    4. Re:"I'm a pwofessinul!" by bcaulf · · Score: 1

      "Why do you use CISCO routers when NT does routing?" (No lie..actually happened!)

      Not as stupid a question as you think. When the 'Net was young, general purpose computers with multiple network interfaces were indeed the normal thing to use for routing. Of course they ran Unix, but if NT were around back then it could have been used as well. Dedicated routers are just a more reliable, lower maintenance, hopefully better performing evolution; they are not necessary.

  83. Happiness==not being treated like company property by borgheron · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Enough said.

    GJC

    --
    Gregory Casamento
    ## Chief Maintainer for GNUstep
  84. My personal experience & opinions by crudeboy · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Let me share my personal experience of moving from a tech position into middle-management.
    I was hired for a development dotcom as team-leader for the internal IT-group, but since we had no IT-manager my role more or less shifted into that of a IT-manager.

    One of the things I came to realize is that being a manager, whether for smart och not-so-smart people, is a rather difficult thing which should be viewed as any other discipline which requires high skills and strong people skills.
    This didn't exactly come as a shock to me, but I hadn't really thought that much about how much it would tear me down personally.

    I think my problem was that I lacked good management skills and insight into what motivated my staff. While I realized this quite fast I really tried to do a good job and keep everyone happy.
    I got pretty mentally exhausted after this period and I'd probably think twice about taking up any job which involves managing peolpe again, but I'll probably do it at some point in the future since I got the feeling that it can be a highly rewarding job, and not just in terms of economic compensation (I could probably earn more as a database developer than manager anyway).

    Coming from a tech background my personal belief now is that tech jobs, while often demanding strong intellectual skills, usually deal with logical problems with tend to have logical solutions, but management (at least of human resources) deal with highly illogical humans and therefore is a much tougher discipline to master. Another thing that adds to the difficulty of management is that managerial positions often demands you to be proficient in multiple disciplines (much like developers...)

    For all you people who're dissing managers and sales people (and all other non-cool positions) I only have one thing to say:
    Treat them with the same level of respect as you want to earn yourself and by all means, if you think you can do the job better give it a try!

    1. Re:My personal experience & opinions by Black+Jack+Hyde · · Score: 1
      and by all means, if you think you can do the job better give it a try!

      I accept. Please turn in your resignation. I'll be in Monday morning to take the company car back from you. I hope you didn't spend that annual bonus yet, I've got my eye on some stuff at Best Buy and I'll need every cent. What's the lockup on your, excuse me, my options again? :-)

      I like my manager. But his job consists of the following:

      • Go to meetings
      • Delegate tasks received in those meetings to staff
      • Tell staff that sales have increased dramatically this year, but expenses haven't changed, so forget about training or anything more than a miniscule raise
      • If a cool task comes around, be sure to hog it for yourself. After all, staff are too busy doing all the uncool stuff like sysadmin, etc.
      • Get paid double what a staffer makes, plus all the bennies the serfs don't get (car, bonus, options)
      You'll note items like 'motivate staff' or 'push for training budget' don't appear. In my experience, managers don't do those things.

      Please don't tell me this is hard to do. If it was difficult, managers wouldn't be managers.

      Jack

    2. Re:My personal experience & opinions by crudeboy · · Score: 1
      >You'll note items like 'motivate staff' or 'push for training budget' don't appear. In my experience, managers don't do those things.

      But they should in my opinion, that's a couple of things that makes a manager good.

      >Please don't tell me this is hard to do. If it was difficult, managers wouldn't be managers.

      What you described doesn't sound too hard, but it doesn't really describe a good manager too me, but rather a mediocre one.

      Cheers!

  85. Cryptonomicon by kannen · · Score: 2
    That kind creativity can be more closely related to really great tech workers than you seem to think. But as you point out they are the rare ones... and in most operations you won't see them because they don't show up to write code... they are more interested in working on the fundamentally hard problems.
    This reminds me of Neal Stephenson's book, Cryptonomicon. You have this super-genius, Lawrence Pritchard Waterhouse, and you have his grandson, Randy Waterhouse. Lawrence was into solving intensely difficult math problems, but once he figured out the key to solving them, he didn't bother going through the actual steps to get the actual answer. He had solved it in theory, and that was the fun part. Too hell with solving the problem in actuality.

    Randy, Lawrence's grandson, grows up to be a moderately badass hacker. He explains that there are tough problems to solve, and there is everthing else. He calls everything else "making (or was it punching?) license plates." The exceptional intellects don't want to get near making license plates. It is too boring for their creative and hard to focus minds - it takes something really cool to make them discipline themselves to think through a problem.

  86. I should write a book by Jboy_24 · · Score: 1

    Since i AM an Einstein, my suggestions to management would be this ...

    because of our inflated self worths ... you have to stroke our egos by paying at the highest salarys possible. Barry Bonds gets around 15,000,000 per year, so 10% of that for your Einsteins is a good starting point.

    Einsteins, because we can't tolerate dealing with the less intelegent, need the oppurtunity of working from home and telecommuting. So let us...

    Bills, car payments, rent all tend to stress us Einsteins, because the pettyness of these concerns frustrate us, pay all our bills for us.

    Einsteins also need to feel attractive to the opposite sex, so when thinking of cars/ apartments think porsches, ferarris and penthouses. Also don't skimp on Escorts (not the ford kind) if we still can't attract a girl... Two or more at a time is better...

    Again, it can never forgotton to not stress us Einsteins out, so NEVER press deadlines! They know about them so don't let them worry about them! If its really pressing on time, hire some extra grunt workers to do any work that the we don't want to do.

    As well, make sure you pay at least 5-6 months in advance, and give 8-12 months notice if you feel you can't keep the payments up. As well give us Einsteins some personal information about yourself (you don't want us to stress and have to dig it up ourselves) so that we can blackmail you into keeping us employed.

    As well, its often known that plain hackers need supplies of Mountain Dew, it only goes that this is more so for your Einsteins. So provide plenty of Coke, Extacy, Speed handy... this also helps with the girl problems....

    Then, at the end, you can keep your Einsteins employeed and happy...

    Good luck

  87. promotion doesn't have to be to managment by Klox · · Score: 1
    Also that the traditional notion of promotion does not always work. An Einstein may not want to become a team leader, or move any higher in the management hierarchy. A manager should be wary of their Einsteins burning out, a temporary demotion or other measure may be in order to take the stress off an Einstein for a while.


    I don't like this idea that the only way to move up in a company is it get into management. Our Director of Engineering has created a dual-ladder system where the engineers get promoted from engineer to senior engineer to --I forget--... This "promotion" just means that the engineers get to spend more time "experimenting" with new, fun stuff, while the lowly engineers do the grunt work.

    I think our Director got the dual-ladder idea from his time at IBM, where they would throw a party for managers switching to the engineering ladder, but wouldn't do anything for engineers switching to the management ladder. The reasoning was that they wanted to break the idea that being a manager was inherently better than being an engineer.
  88. Holier Than Thou.... by SomeOtherGuy · · Score: 2

    How about a book on how tech workers should treat their managers? As a former tech worker turned manager I would be more than happy to see the developers get "purks" above and beyond all the "less" intelligent people --- however at that point they better earn it....Don't rest on what you know today -- go home and hack away and learn the new technology and toolsets....Einstein was not a one trick pony that came up with 1 good idea and lived off of that the rest of his live --- he continued to invent.

    --
    (+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
  89. My boss has this book... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...and it's amazing to me to read the excerpts here, then realize just how little of it she has actually acted upon.

    I guess that's what happens when you have a manager that buys books to form a certain image of herself to others.

  90. Here's an idea to start. by ROBOKATZ · · Score: 1

    Pay them more than $13.75 an hour. That's what I get. Maybe I'm no Einstein but that's still pretty shitty.

  91. Stupid human resources/sales/PR... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, at my university (happens to be www.hut.fi for those interested) Compaq gave us a presentation about some of their computer stuff.

    Then they start marketing available jobs for "specialists" and when one guy asked what they've got to offer one of these sales and PR guys who gave us the presentation tells us that there are available jobs at their helpdesk division...

    These idiots actually thought that when you've got your M.Sc degree in computer science, you're going to do helpdesk for them. When one guy started to laugh when he heard the answer these people just couldn't understand why he was laughing. Clearly they think doing helpdesk (desktop helpdesk for some stupid windows users) requires a specialists and good education. Just because they're themself clueless with computers that doesn't mean that the kid next door couldn't be hired to do that... oh well. That just tells us what managers are all about.

    1. Re:Stupid human resources/sales/PR... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clearly, you think that having a CS degree magically entitles you to work somewhere other than the helpdesk.

  92. Isn't this what everyone wants?... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    People want to work with people they consider friends. People they trust. There will always be ups and downs, but if people genuinely like the people they are working with, well, it's a difficult thing to walk away from.

    A corollary of this, as mentioned in Peopleware, and elsewhere I believe, is that people should not be subject to annual appraisal. Such appraisals have the tendency of destroying team spirit (teamicide). Having team members coach each other is one of the most healthy activities to be found in a company. Introducing an element of competition and rewarding the winners tends to undermine this process.

    Also, appraisals can be extraordinarily stressful to valuable, productive employess, who also happen to be living, feeling human beings. Sometimes I wonder why we, as a race, do it to ourselves...

    Anyway, I'm starting to ramble, so I'll stop here.

  93. Re:Einsteins? So trendy. by sailordave · · Score: 1

    I'd rather be referred to as a Lederman, Hawking or Fermat. Besides, fewer Manhattan-project jokes.

    Fermat was a practicing lawyer who incorrectly claimed he had proven a certain theorem. 300 years later, a 'geek' finally proved it. He sounds more like a PHB to me than an Einstein...

  94. Story has high crackpot index by descubes · · Score: 1
    The Crackpot Index has the following rule:
    17 - 10 points for each favorable comparison of yourself to Einstein, or claim that special or general relativity are fundamentally misguided (without good evidence).
    Now, given the spelling abilities of most /.ers, I think we can also safely add 5 more points for:
    8 - 5 points for each mention of "Einstien", "Hawkins" or "Feynmann".
    So the story starts with 15 crackpoint points already.
    --
    -- Did you try Tao3D? http://tao3d.sourceforge.net
  95. Seriously.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    These 'Einsteins' want JOBS with at least a modest income. These days it seems they're harder to come by ;-)

  96. Inbreeding. by DGolden · · Score: 2

    In fact, logic dictates the opposite, if both Einstein and his cousin were of above average intelligence (There is a proven genetic component to several different aptitudes that fall under the ill-defined umbrella of "intelligence").

    Inbreeding enhances particular traits, by increasing the chances that offspring get two copies of the sets of genes supplying those traits. This holds for beneficial just as much as damaging traits - a point often missed in the "inbreeding is bad, mmmkay" dogma taught in schools.

    Inbreeding does not automatically mean less fit offspring - fitness is relative to the environment, enhancement of a particular trait, even at the expense of other traits, may make an organism fitter in a particular environment.

    Enhancing particular traits by selective inbreeding is (a) common practice on farms worldwide and (b) (used to be?) common practice among european noble families.

    --
    Choice of masters is not freedom.
    1. Re:Inbreeding. by plunix · · Score: 1
      Enhancing particular traits by selective inbreeding is (a) common practice on farms worldwide and (b) (used to be?) common practice among european noble families.


      As for European nobles, AFAIK, this wasn't actually done to enhance particular genetic traits, just to keep the powers in European to a limited number of families, and increase the power of particular families. Some of the traits it enhanced were actually not beneficial at all, for example hemophilia and other genetic disorders/diseases.

      As for "imbreeding is bad, mmmkay," the reasons imbreeding is "bad" are not limited to simply the fact that they enhance negative genetic traits sometimes. There's also a moral factor which you didn't discuss.
    2. Re:Inbreeding. by DGolden · · Score: 1

      Moral factors are relative, and it is fairly easy to picture a society in which inbreeding would be accepted as par-for-the-course, similar to the way extramarital children are now par-for-the-course in european society...

      --
      Choice of masters is not freedom.
    3. Re:Inbreeding. by plunix · · Score: 1

      There is no such thing as "relative moral factors". Moral factors are absolute and apply to all people, everywhere, all times. Any factor which you consider relative, you cannot call "moral", only perhaps a "societal norm".

    4. Re:Inbreeding. by DGolden · · Score: 1

      By your definition and my experience, then, moral factors do not exist.

      --
      Choice of masters is not freedom.
  97. Re:How to motivate AI Al. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Keep up the good work, Mentifex. You fucking rule.

  98. Free Soda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Funny you should mention that.

    I work at one of those high-flying tech stocks that crashed badly this past year. The inevitable brutal layoffs and office merging followed.

    But what really got my goat was getting rid of their "free soda" policy.

    The "free soda" policy was always a real morale booster, at the whopping cost of maybe 25c per employee per day. Now that it's gone, people feel cheapened, and what's worse wander out several times a day to the corner store just to get a damn can of soda.

    "Free Soda" is about the cheapest morale booster money can buy, but typical management just never gets it. They worry so much about answering to the braindead shareholders pet peeves that they forget about who actually makes the company live or die in the end: the people who Produce Product.

  99. Re:Keep tech workers happy?! Not in this job marke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Depends on where you are, I guess. Where I work, they introduced a casual dress policy that started in November and is still going - I've been free to wear comfortable shorts and tshirt over the hot summer. They opened a new company cafe a few months back, and are supposedly working on a small gym area.

  100. Q.) Who managed Einstein? by Ogerman · · Score: 2

    A.) Nobody.

  101. Another geek's rants by ryochiji · · Score: 1
    This is based on my experiences as a programmer at a dot-com in Tokyo. Being a Japanese company, we didn't have nearly as much freedom in some ways, but then, they gave us programmers a little bit too much freedom in other areas (i.e. poor project management).
    1. Flexible hours: They made me be at the office at 10:00am. Since I don't really wake up until early in the afternoon, I usually only worked in the afternoon and stayed late, which was unproductive for the company and for myself.
    2. Set clear dates They tried to let me set my own pace, but I'm bad at that. Given a due date, no matter how unrealistic it is, I'd do whatever it takes to meet them. Otherwise, I'll just drag my feet and do whatever interests me. Of course, this is partially a flaw on my part, but they should've seen that, and besides, setting a timeline is part of project management anyway.
    3. Solidify project requirements first: There's nothing more annoying than being told that I'd have to rewrite what I did the day before because the requirements just changed.
    4. Clear coding guidelines: Yeah, this company didn't even have the most basic guidlines for coding/documenting. I'm sure most surviving tech companies have at least this.
    5. Don't you dare threaten to promote me: Despite my complete and utter lack of management skills, they (the CEO, in fact) actually tried to give me a management position. This actually made me further doubt their management skills.
    6. Money isn't everything: They failed to understand that money wasn't the most important thing for me. I would've preferred a better work environment, a better workstation, better development servers, better managers and various options than money.
  102. OK by jonr · · Score: 2

    interesting...

  103. US v UK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think it's the difference in culture. Slashdot is an American site, and many of its posters on these forums are American. Dilbert is a comic written by an American about American office politics. The 'geek style' on this site is really an American geek style.

    You, on the other hand, work in the UK. So do I. And as we both know, things are vastly different over here with regards to 'geek culture' (if it even exists like that.)

    It pains me to see Slashdot-style geeks developing in this country, it is an incredibly pathetic approach to one's work. Interestingly this has much to do with the globalistic nature of the Internet.

    In essence, we can blame the Internet as many others do.

  104. i don't believe it! by punkyfish · · Score: 1

    Shouldn't everyone have a 'fun' and 'stimulating environment to work in whenever possible? Not only Einsteins get bored stiff... Geez

  105. Re:you beer-bong shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That post left me in tears of laughter. Tell your mom to browse at +2.