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Attack of the Clones: Less Plastic Crap, More Story?
Newsweek has an article in which George Lucas states that there were parts of Episode One that were damaging to the Star Wars franchise. (shocker, I know) "The last movie did not live up to expectations." They'll cut the merchandise by two thirds, as they still have tons of unsold Episode One merchandise. Yahoo is also running an AOTC story. Mild spoilers in the linked stories, by the way.
For some reason I have this huge fear the Episode II will be somewhat of a click flick. Please tell me I'm wrong.
alt.starwars.jarjar.die.die.die
:-)
Websurfing done right! - StumbleUpon
augment your senses: http://sensebridge.net/
...start reporting things before they're entire days (sometimes weeks) old? It's quite off-putting when us nerds get the news faster from Fark, which is hardly known to be the Speedy Gonzalez of news services. ;)
I'd like to help out so that they continue to have a chance to make some better Episodes.
Maybe they could unload some of the many Jar Jar dolls in sporting goods stores interested in diversifying their range of marksmanship targets?
"Provided by the management for your protection."
Ok, but let's not forget the important questions brewing on every real star wars fan's mind...IS JAR JAR BINKS GOING TO EVER POKE HIS UGLY MUG ON SCREEN AGAIN? because if so I am returning my light saber.
At least now I know no major characters die at the end of the movie. Otherwise it would have been mentioned on Slashdot's main page.
doesn't the dialog in the new trailer look just as bad as episode 1?
Photos.
The toys went on sale yesterday at midnight, a month before the movie is released.
/. story).
Spoiler footage will be aired on FOX during a showing of Empire Strikes Back this week (Thurs night).
Rumor has it that at least one person was shown Ep 2 (an early version) at the SXSW film festival in Austin a month ago (see earlier
Lucas is clearly trying hard to atone for his mistakes, but the real issue is whether AotC sucks as bad as tPM. I believe the hype machine will be successful in generating a ton of ticket sales on opening weekend. The question is whether fans will go again and again because the movie recaptures the magic of the original trilogy.
-- Adam
'attack of the clones'??
yeah right...
'attack of the license to print more free money' is more like it.
episode one let alot of people down and i imagine most people are going to see episode two to see if it will be as bad as episode one, not to see it on it's own merits, or the fact that it is a star wars movie alone. with that said, i hope to be pleasently suprised with the outcome.
I need them to bring out those Life Size Jar Jar Dolls again!
"Why did they cancel my favorite Sci-Fi show? I downloaded ALL the episodes!"
I'm envisioning crates of unsold Jar Jar Binks action figurines... Oh! me so lonely!
Cool site!
...are they cutting back on the marketing because it turns the traditional SW fans off, or because they didn't sell as much as they expected to last time?
Sounds like he's trying to spin a marketing problem as if it were a nod to his critics. We could get that pap from Bill Gates if we wanted it.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
a new hope?
sorry
Nice to see that Mr. Lucas realizes what a mess Episode One became - hopefully, this will mean a major improvement, both story- and character-wise, for Episode Two. Good for George, good for us, maybe some seven-year olds who never saw the originals will be disappointed that the film now lacks anyone they can identify with, but what the heck, I don't care.
The article (at MSNBC) does spoil some of the story but also sheds some interesting light. I don't think we can bet on Anakin killing Jar Jar for us just yet, though the co-writer, Jonathan Hales, promises no silly characters or kids. Personally, I expect Jar Jar to get screen time in Ep 2 as Natalie Portman's boobs, meaning a few seconds at most.
Quality, performance, value; you get only two, and you don't always get to pick.
Well, I can't really say for sure, but from interviews I've seen with various people involved with the film, as well as rumors this one is supposed to have a LOT more action, and be fairly dark.
I'm sure they'll play up the the romance a bit, but from what I understand it's PACKED with Jedi fighting. One rumor is that we find out why Yoda is the bad-ass he's supposed to be. Crossing my fingers to see some kick-ass Jedi fighting. I just hope I'm not let down like with the first one. *sigh*
Also, if it follows the basic trend from the first 3, The first one is more light hearted, introducing characters. The second one is dark, and deepens the plot. The third one will release the darkness, but show the light at the end of the tunnel. *shrug*
Just my thoughts, and what I've heard.
-Alex
I looked at all the new trailers bought toys the day they came out had read the book and comic book several times before the movie came out. This time I'm ignoring all of the marketing in the hope that having some surprises will help make this one seem better. I'm just wondering if anyone else is doing this and/or what you all think about this.
Cypherpunks: Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics. Those who live by the sword die by the arrow.
I love the Star Wars movies with a great passion, but Lucas is, basically, a consumer whore. How many revisions of Luke in Hoth gear are there? How many Nein Numb and Momaw Nadon action figures are there? If you get .02 seconds of screen time you get 5 action figures, a T-shirt and a mug. There's even a Darth Vader Beer Stein for cryin' out loud!
I'll believe it when I see it... But right now, I'm believe that Toy stores everywhere are getting container shipments full of insignifigant characters.
I know George Lucas has repeatedly said that Episodes 7-9 will never be made, but is this realistic? I know old man Lucas will be 61 when Episode 3 comes out, and maybe he will be too old to direct movies at that age, or will he? Since it takes 3 yrs. to make a Star Wars movie, he could still be a relatively young 70 yrs. old when Episode 9 debuts in theaters, if he stays on track with the production schedule.
Even if Lucas cant or wont direct Episodes 7-9, will he allow some other director to make them and complete the triple trilogy?
From a financial standpoint, I see Episodes 7-9 being made. Given the phenomenal success of 4 Star Wars movies so far, I think it's impossible to deny the box office goldmine that of the Star Wars franchise.....
I hear they're making him a Jedi!!!
OMG!
*evilgrin*
-Alex
"To avoid a disastrous repeat, the 57-year-old filmmaker says he's cutting down the licensees by two-thirds for Clones"
Still too many Dollys in sci-fi costumes running around...
Either way... I'm going to see Clones. It'd have to be really bad for me not to go back two or three times.
How about the rest of you? Vocal though you are, I doubt you will stay away. It doesn't matter how bad the dialogue is... guys with lightsabers are just too cool.
After the DVD came out, I had the chance to revisit Episode one. It's strange, that when you strip away all the hype, the product tie-ins, the in your face constant advertising, and just go see the movie on it's own merits, it's not really all that bad.
And, for some strange reason, it seems to get better every time you watch it. You notice more of the details and craftsmenship that went into the movie.
Finally, if you can go into the film knowing the annoying parts (Jar-Jar, the announcers at the pod race et.al), you can pretty much tune them out.
When it's all said and done, the hype surrounding TPM hurt it more then the bad filmaking... which shows how media can so dramatically effect our expectations. The article mentions 'The Matrix'.. which I knew nothing about, and was blown away when I first saw it. But the more times I see it, the more it's luster wears off... it actually looses appeal every time I watch it, while TPM, strangly, seems to get better.
So Kudos to lucas for entering into this a little wiser. I don't think you're going to see nearly as many fanatic star wars geeks lining up for months in order to see this movie, you are'nt going to be pounded for weeks on end for advertisments for product tie ins... and in the end when we do go down to the theatre (and we will.. you know it) our expectations will have the chance to be a little more realistic.
The Internet is generally stupid
Plus, it's got nat port in filmy, backless dresses! This could be the most titillating moment in the SW universe since Leia and the Chain-mail bikini!
The hooligans are loose! The hooligans are loose! What if they become ruffians? -- Bill Hicks
It has so much to live up to, I know for a fact that if I hadn't seen the (first/last) three episodes epesode 1 would be one of my fave films this year!
So am I. ;>
Direct to Georgieboy.
Rectally. (Oh, for a _real_ one!)
I think one of the main problems Lucas is running up against is the fact that single movies don't exert the influence on mass culture they once did. Simply put, for quite some time now there has been a lack of big movies that "everyone" goes to see. This is not exactly a bad thing, it just shows that movies are differently targeted.
For example, if you ask me, there's been a distinct increase in the quality of war movies over the past decade, even though less people are going to see them. Saving Private Ryan wasn't for everyone, but I think most would agree it was at least a better movie than Force 10 from Navarone.
To get back to Star Wars though, I really think a big part of the problem with Episode I was the attempt to appeal to a wide audience. Keeping away from flaming comments about commercialism, the objective should not be to make a movie EVERYONE likes, but to make a movie every will agree was not a waste of time, even if it wasn't their cup of tea.
Debate me if you will, but I see Empire Strikes Back in this vein. A bit darker then the other movies, but bad? No. It was different, and it was good. Did everyone like it? No again, but few claim to outright hate the movie. It was quality filmmaking, not churned out sludge for mass appeal.
"Isn't that the sweetest little well-balanced undergraduate-level philosophy of life."
I read a Time article on this movie, and it is quite clear that Lucas either doesn't understand or doesn't care just how bad Phantom really seemed to the majority of his fans (including me.) He blames the internet for the crushing negative reaction to Jar-Jar, saying that C3PO and the Ewoks also got a lot of negative feedback and the reason those characters weren't so heavly dumped on was there was no internet to spread the word. Incredible.
I readly confess the Ewoks in particular are weak, but at least they and 3PO weren't so incredibly annoying. Jar-Jar should have been cut out completely once the fan response became clear, whatever Lucas may think about the reasons for the reaction. He states he is in the business to make money - why then doesn't he listen to his customers?? Is the man's ego really that much out of control?
I may see Clones, but I suspect unless the critics rave about it I'll wait for it to reach the dollar movie theaters first. Lucas got more money than he earned for Phantom, and I see no reason to give him more. He needs to wake up to the fact that hype will only carry him so far, and eventually he's going to have to produce a good product again.
"I object to doing things that computers can do." -- Olin Shivers, lispers.org
Much nicer and more Lucas-centric piece on Attack of the Clones at time.
Lucasfilm saved its best goodies, though, for the Web geeks, a stratum of "Star Wars" fandom that, in the past, it had communicated with only via cease-and-desist orders.
Absolutely brilliant line.
The current edition of Maxim has a pretty cool interview with George Lucas that covers a couple pages. Not too many spilers, and it also covers the general direction Lucas is taking it in (as a director and as a story). Some of us might find some cool stuff to look at in the magazine as well...
I can just imagine an archeological expedition thousands of years from now digging up an old garbage dump and what do they find? Tons of unwanted Episode 1 merchandise. "What a strange idol they worshipped" :Pulls string: "Me'sa tink d'is a ba' idea!" They'll think we're morons.
And it's not a boycott. It's the fact that Episode I sucked big time, and last week I was watching Montecristo (great movie) and saw trailers for Attack of the Clones.
And suddenly it hit me.
I was planning to watch it, it was pretty much a given. And then, seeing the scenes, I realized I don't really have a wish to see it. I just had a lemming reaction. The hype got to me. I had been brainwashed.
That is, I was going to watch it because it was a Star Wars film. But nothing I saw on the trailer, and nothing I saw in the prequel, compelled me to see it.
So, ask yourself: If this film wasn't a "Star Wars" movie, would I be compelled to see it? Would I feel it is a good film?.
I have decided it's not. And I won't give in to the hype, however alluring it becomes.
PS: For the opinion or David Brin, great science fiction writer who makes George Lucas look like the hack he is, read this.
Ok, let's recap.
Second to last movie: Ewoks.
Last movie: Jar Jar Binks.
Right now, he has one last chance with me. Two chances if he releases the first three movies on DVD ABOUT FIVE MINUTES AGO.
The sad part about it is that as member in good standing with his target demographic, I feel no urge to cruise his websites looking for "new info."
For all of you people that aren't Star Wars fans and wonder if we're really that P.O'd about tPM, well, we are. After all, I own ALL of the action figures from the first movies, and I really don't know if I'm even interested in seeing the movie now. I personally am more interested in Farscape and the idea that they might bring back Battlestar Galactica... and to put it in perspective, watching Battlestar reruns now is like going in for oral surgery.
I believe George should retire on the money he makes on this one, and sign the rights over to the fans before we sue over custody.
A bit off-topic... Released today on TV and Starwars.com. It had a few new scenes.
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
OT me all you want, but I highly reccommend you go get the book or rent the Book On Tape... the movie of Monte Christo was a typical paper-to-celluloid fiasco.
The hooligans are loose! The hooligans are loose! What if they become ruffians? -- Bill Hicks
Mild Spoilers in the linked stories, by the way.
Chrisd won't soon live that one down.
#include <sig.h>
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Less merchandise? They want to avoid making (and failing to sell) crappy merchandise? Dammit, I actively seek out the crappy merchandise!
I will be sincerely disappointed if there is nothing coming out of AOTC to at least rival TPM's Jar Jar Binks Moster Mouth Lollipop
Crap, that thing made my year... read the testimony of several more eloquent kibologists if you somehow fail to be in awe of this "piece of merchandise".
And just because I'm on the topic of wonderful crap, I feel the need to mention the "Star Wars Holiday Special" and the "Theme from Lord of the Rings (1978) Disco Mix". Truly the stuff that dreams are made of!
>> George Lucas states that there were parts of Episode One that were damaging
>> to the Star Wars franchise. (shocker, I know)
>> "The last movie did not live up to expectations."
Yes, the movie sucked.
No, Lucas did not actually say that.
In fact, as the article says, "Lucas declined to comment for this story."
I really enjoyed this story on time.com but didn't feel like dealing with submitting it and having it summarily rejected.
Nonperiodic Central Trajectory
Think about this; The merchandisers are the ones paying to make all the SW paraphenalia. It's not like Lucas is shelling out - They're paying HIM. Lucas knew there would be a rush by people making sure they would get all the collectible crap (is it just me, or is everything but the action figures lower quality?) so they made a whole bunch of it. Sure, they didn't sell it all, but Lucas surely realized a big scrooge mcduck-sized pile of money from it.
So this movie, they're going to reduce the quantity of stuff dramatically which means - you guessed it! - there will be a huge rush on it again. It might take a little time to build up momentum, so toys r us might not have to call in the riot police to get people away from the empty action figure aisle, but it still still produce plenty of cash, and the collectibles will actually have value this time. Not that they don't already, because within just a few months many collectibles were going for over four times their purchase price. I mean, less than a month after they were off the shelves.
And while we're talking about things which could be intentional; Everyone was going to go see episode one whether it sucked ass or not, so Lucas just didn't have to try. Now, many of us will be waiting to see what our friends have to say about episode 2 before we go see it. Based on the trailers I've seen, It's going to suck, but I guess those are not necessarily static or representative.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
GEORGE LUCAS DOES NOT CARE ABOUT YOUR OPINIONS.
EP2 (or AOTC or whatever the fuck acronym you're using) could be called "I Hate All of You Stupid Fuckers," consisting of nothing but footage of Lucas taking a shit, and you would LINE UP AROUND THE BLOCK to see it. You will gladly pay him what he demands. Lucas relies on people like you.
I hated The Phantom Menace when I first saw it.
Then I watched the original three flicks again. They're horrendous. 3P0 is marginally less annoying than Jar Jar. The stories have huge plot holes. Colossal. Mind-boggling.
You were probably ten, or five, or three when you first saw Star Wars. You were a lot easier on the inconsistencies and absurdities at that age than you are now. The Phantom Menace most definitely wasn't a film classic, but neither were the original three.
Most big-budget SF movies suck in the plot department. Remember Artificial Stupidity? Melrose Troopers? Final Fuckup? Wing Confuser? Is there a decent plot in any of them?
T(H)GSWB, anyone?
Jedi battles! Slap in the standard good plot with mythic overtones like the other Star Wars films (the good ones anyway) and I'll stand in line to watch it more than once.
If you really must revisit this movie, I highly suggest you do so by finding yourself a copy of The Phantom Edit. It's not perfect either, but it gives a sense of how hard it wouldn't have been for Lucas to make the original not suck.
There's a quote from Lucas in the Time Magazine SWII article (hey, surprise, they got all the major news mags!) which really struck me:
It's pretty obvious that he still doesn't get it. I don't know anyone who complained about a kid being the hero -- a few who complained about the chosen kid's acting ability, and a bunch more who complained about the cutesyness, but this was the first I've heard the idea that the problem is that audiences can't cope with the idea of a child hero. Note to George: um, ex-squeeeze me, there are a few other issues.
Episode I dialog generator:
if (drand48() < 0.5)
return "be mindful";
else
return "you assume too much";
Lucas in a TIME interview: Fans are very opinionated, and that's good. But I can't make a movie for fans
keep it simple.
"Lucas declined to comment for this story." Everything they have is heresay from people "involved" with the movie.
And yes, it is important to be very accurate with these sorts of facts.
another quote from the same interview: Fans are very opinionated, and that's good. But I can't make a movie for fans
keep it simple.
"He's not a stupid man. He doesn't want to hurt the franchise." There's evidence to back that up.
And from this article:
Lucas blames the anti-Jar Jar sentiment on "37-year-old guys who spend all their time on the Internet. But you have to remember that when we did The Empire Strikes Back, some people hated C-3PO. When we did Jedi, they just loathed the Ewoks. There was no Internet to jazz it up, but there was the same conversation. Fans are very opinionated, and that's good. But I can't make a movie for fans."
Well, any evidence they *did* have may have just been negated...
Your objective is simple: Destroy the Earth
Your motive is a little bit more complex: Revenge
Stage One:
To begin your plan, you must first Incapacitate a Military General. This will cause the world to sit up and take notice, stunned by your arrival. Who is this Evil Genius? Where did they come from? And why do they look so good in a Corporate Suit?
Stage Two:
Next, you will Seize control of the White House. This will cause countless hordes of Computer Programmers to flock to you, begging to do your every bidding. Your name will become synonymous with Sheer dementedness, as lesser men whisper your name in terror.
Stage Three:
Finally, you will Unleash your Thermonuclear Missiles, bringing about Horrors beyond Man's Comprehension. This will all be done from a Corporate Tower, an excellent choice if we might say. These three deeds will herald the end, and the citizens of this planet will have no choice but to elect you their new god.
Trust us, it'll all come together in the end.
I love the Star Wars movies with a great passion, but Lucas is, basically, a consumer whore.
I'll believe it when I see it...
I happen to share your opinion about Lucas but it's for exactly this reason that I'm willing to entertain the notion that Lucas may indeed have gotten the message that TPM sucked. My personal theory is that Lucas doesn't care about the Star Wars story anymore and that he's using the movies now to finance CGI technology improvements. And a large portion of his money comes from merchandising. So he has to pay attention to the criticism. He might believe in his heart that TPM was a great film and that everyone who didn't like it is an idiot. But because all "those idiots" didn't buy as many Jar-Jar ties as he hoped, I think he has to make a more grown-up film, whether he wants to or not! Again, this relies on my theory that Lucas doesn't really care about the movies -- he's just using them to finance his true love of CGI.
GMD
watch this
Sure, Ep. 4-6 kick ass, with ESB being the best of the three.
And yes, Lucas is mostly responsible. But, isn't it possible, I ask, that this has nothing to do with talent? When I see something like this, my first reaction is to assume the man in charge is talented, but this is by no means a certainty. Maybe it was a 1 in 10,000,000,000,000 thing. Something he lucked out on, and could never do again. Maybe inspiration is a fleeting thing, and abandoned him. Maybe he has a million monkeys in his skull, and those days they had Shakespeare to offer him. There are lots of possible answers, and no good way to prove one or the other.
This isn't meant as flamebait, exactly. Just some thoughts. Besides, it is possible that I'll be proven wrong, there is only a month or so to wait.
The moderation options need a '+/-1: he asked for it'.
--locust
After watching Phantom Menace and being a child of the 80s, how could I not be but a bit disappointed. It just wasn't what I thought it would be. It was overtly cheesy. The comedy was very forced. It didn't seem natural.
I had no problem with the graphics. Of course, I hated Jar Jar. He was the main representative of the cheesy comedy that ensued within the film.
Another fault I found was that Darth Maul didn't seem evil enough. The part was dimunitive.
I didn't like the Trade Federation reps either as I find their voices and appearance very annoying. They were even very menacing.
The robots, egads, they didn't need to talk. "Roger, Roger"... could you be more cliche?
The biggest beef I have is with the Anakin saves the day sequence... This whole scene was far fetched from the Auto pilot to the sudden overheating of his ship to the uncanny idea that a chief component - determinal to the starbase was inside a landing hanger.
Ok... enough dissing PM for it wasn't all bad.
Now when I heard what Lucas decided to call Episode II, I inherently whinced. I begun to glaze over. I wanted more action less overcheesy forced comedy. Also, I was to look forward to a fluffer romance. Mind you... I am a GIRL! I like romances.. but after PM... I want action. hehe...
However, I changed mind my after reading an article issued by TIME. I became hopeful. I have seen images and I have seen some small footage from the movie. I am actually excited about Star Wars again. Perhaps, there is a charm about second chances. I can't wait!!
If you want to check out that TIME article... visit here:
http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101020429/
~ SeineThinker ~
Truth like surgery, may hurt, but it cures. - Han Suyin, Chinese Physician and Writer
Reasons 1 to 5:
- Natalie Portman
...didn't you ever see "Empire Strikes Back"?! Romance BELONGS in Star Wars. There is a reason ESB is the most beloved movie in the series. It's the only one that isn't cheesy crap, because you get to see the characters act like real people, not puppets led around by stupid plot devices. If you want to associate character development with "chick stuff", then you'd better stick to watching WWF.
The jokes and sexual innuedoes in ESB are what separates it from the rest. Take Star Trek for example. The original one had humor and sex. TNG had neither(not consistantly anyway) and wasn't loved like the original. Enterprise captures that human side of the story and brings it back. So, lets hope that AOTC brings the human factor back to Star Wars.
(p.s. i don't really think you're a boner)
Lucas has already chosen his cast, we're just making do with what we have. No need to question Natalie Portman's popularity in this venue.
The hooligans are loose! The hooligans are loose! What if they become ruffians? -- Bill Hicks
Patrick Doyle
I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....
i dont know about increasing quality of war movies. I dont think saving private ryan was nearly as good as movies like apocalypse now or full metal jacket. Same goes for foreign war movies like das boot and and some russian ww2 movies i will not try to write out. Honestly i dont think the quality of war movies is improving.
Seems like the Flamebait choice should be split into "Stupid Flamebait (-1)" and "Really Good Flamebait (+1)."
And now the snotty, bad actor Anakin is replaced by the horny, egomaniac Quaterback. Yawn. A tortured Anakin being seduced by the dark side would make a much better protagonist. Instead Anakin thinks the force will get him laid. Yawn.
I guess George can see a cool video game in those stupid hovercars, much like the meanginless pod race in TPM; had nothing to do with anything.
An an electric guitar in the soundtrack? Why not digitally reconstruction Freddy Mercury's voice and we can have Queen sing the main title? At least they're not cameoing N-SYNC. Ohh.. yeah... they are.
Retire George. Let someone who gives a damn make your friggin movies for you. Whore.
I know this argument has been used a lot.
As I am one of the very few people that did not really see the original trilogy as a kid (lived in a faraway country and the tickets sold out so fast i never had a chance) I think that the first three movies even though very lighthearted, are quite entertainiong for adults.
They are pretty darn good adventure movies. There were charecters you cared about, villians that were pretty cool, a plot that had fairy tale kind of quality - where you know it is a bit too simplistic but you still get into it.
The characters got into all kinds of exciting adventures and perils. There was a nice love story and some delicious footage where the princess was enslaved and chained in her bikinis by a fat sloberring freak - what more could you ask for?
Phantom menace on the other hand had too many characters and i didnt care about most of them, the main girl's appearence and lines were so stylized as to remove any sex appeal, the main male character was a 7 year old. There was no chemistry between any of the characters.
You never cared about anything of the adventures, because you dont care about the characters and you know who is going to survive and win.
So i think there was a difference. It was not just youth that made you like the trilogy.
No consistant humor or sex on TNG? Riker was almost as big a horndog as Kirk. TNG not as loved as the TOS? You're welcome to your opinion, but I wonder what series you've been watching? Doesn't sound like the TNG I remember. As for the bashing of Episode 1, I have to agree with Lucas. A lot of it was coming from "37 year old men that didn't like Jar Jar Binks". He correctly pointed out that these same guys also though C3P0 was lame. It was overhyped, but let's face it, a lot of it kicked ass (the Qui Gon/ObiWan/Maul fight alone was worth the price of admission). Also, I think you'll get a bit of an arguement that ESB is the best of the first trilogy. Sorry, it was really good, but Star Wars (IV, New Hope) was Revolutionary. There is a difference.
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
This is precisely the crap that's gonna be worth mucho dinero in 20 years.
"Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus."
1-5: Lucas sucks at writing/directing
Isn't it his flick? If he wants to make it 2 hours of watching grass grow, thats his choice isn't it? I mean, how many of us here have money riding on the success of these films (comic-book-store-guys excluded, of course!)or in fact have any right to demand a change to what is, effectively, his own creative work? I understand that I, along with pretty much every adult male loves the Star Wars franchise, but I don't see it that he owes us anything. If you don't like it, don't go see it.
I think that his biggest problem with this franchise, it has become so fucking HUGE that no matter what he chooses to do it will no doubt upset somebody. Everybody knows Star Wars, even if they don't adore it. I went and saw tPM knowing full well that this movie had to appeal from 4 year old kids up to adult zealots who live Star Wars every living, breathing minute, which to me that sounds like a bloody big group to keep happy. And you know what? It wasn't as bad as I expected it to be. I don't think he's doing to bad a job, considering. Imagine the pressure he is under to satisfy the masses, no matter what their tastes...
Man, better him than me (I guess thats why he gets the big bucks).
Never fight naked, unless you're in prison...
when you strip away all the hype, the product tie-ins, the in your face constant advertising, and just go see the movie on it's own merits, it's not really all that bad.
I have to agree with that statement, however, this is Star Wars, and "not bad" is simply not good enough. An average sci-fi movie with great effects, a tedious plot, and annoying dialogue is not what fans expect or deserve. I really hope George Lucas is spending less time on the marketing of AOTC and more time on the filmaking, but until I see the finished product, I'm skeptical of this article's spin.
Don't forget that Friday is Hawaiian shirt day.
how can you diss Jango Fett!?!?! he's got to be cooler than Boba...... he shoots laser guns like Billy the Kid...... and he uses the jet pack thing before the movie get's a reworking. whatever, fine... your loss. i'm not in line now, nor will i be till a few days (or more) after the movie opens... but i will probably see it in the first week of release. hopefully it will be nearly as good as Resident Evil, though without zombies i don'tt know how.
80 Billion Tons of Jar-Jar Merchandise Now 70% Off
Gotta love the Onion.
...the Merchandise Menace!
I remember in '99 not being able to turn around in a mall without seeing drink cups, shop posters, sticker sets, comic books proudly displaying the "STAR WARS EPISODE I The Phantom Menace" logo. Interesting to note also that "EPISODE I" was always written bigger than the actual title of the movie, "The Phantom Menace".
The over-saturation was enough to make even a fan like myself sick of the sight of "Star Wars", even though I loved the movie.
Still, I guess if LucasFilm had UNDER-merchandised the film (no toys, books etc) people would have called it "The Phantom Merchandise".
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
I just hit El Polo Loco on the way over and eat it during the movie., try it.
Hollow words will burn and hollow men will burn.
Instead of the E1 garbage compactor, have a giant garbage disposal(the sink type grinders). I don't know to spell this, but imagine the sound(the sound he(and kids) makes like humming and flicking your lips up and down with your forefinger). Whirl this, then grind.
Can I get some of those full size Jar Jar Binks mannequins on the cheap? Those would make excellent live fire target practice dummies...
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
You mean, there's official Star Wars(TM) plastic crap, and I've never seen it??? If they're going to be making less of it, I'd better pick some up fast. No more generic fake do-do for me. From now on it's Star Wars(TM) plastic crap, or nothing at all... unless they make fake vomit too.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
fool me once, shame on you.
fool me twice, shame on me.
Opportunity knocks. Karma hunts you down.
Why are there personal ads for Yoda??? Why. Why. Why. Here I was all worried about the Dawson's Creekishness of the preview... recovering from that based on what people have said of the second. And, now I learn they're marketing this thing with cheesy personal ad posters from Yoda. What the hell is that?
I was shocked and numbed (okay, I got over it). But sheesh... What on earth. Damaging... you want damaging? Make chessy posters of Yoda personal ads. That's damaging.
Over reacting? Probably. But what the hell??
Don't know about you, but I thought LOTR: FOTR was a "big" movie... Most everyone i know went to see it. Maybe thats just a comment on the people i know!
Maybe it's just me, but I find the entire marketing scheme behind Starwars a bit disturbing anymore... Episodes 4-6 were fine. We had a Hero and his Alliance topple the Big Evil Dude and his Empire.
Now in 1-3, we see how the Big Evil Dude and his Empire got started. Fine. Except for one thing... They're marketing a mass murder to kids. Yeah! Get the Ep.1 Jar-Jar and Anakin coloring book! He's just like you, kids! Buy his toys, see the movie! Yes, watch Ep.2! Watch Anakin fall in love! He's a rebel with a cause! What? Yeah, sure, he enslaves most of the known Universe, becomes second in command to Umber-Hitler, hunts the Jedi to near extinction and kills billions with his Giant Planet Killing Weapon, but that's besides the point. Kids will eat this stuff up!
Personally, I think Eps 2-3 will be the best of the new trilogy and I'll enjoy them throughly, but the with the way they're marketing em, I NEVER want to hear a complaint about ANY videogame violence AGAIN.
You need a FREE iPod Nano
Lucas never once in that article claims that TPM hurt the franchise. "Jim Silver, publisher of trade magazine The Toy Book", did. Do the people who submit or the editors even read the articles or just skim them?
You guys want me to pay for this type of wonderful reporting?
beware. i only read 2/3rds of this article because i was told there were spoilers near the end. granted this is secondhand information, but i wouldn't want to risk it.
it doesn't take a genius to figure that out.
They'll cut the merchandise by two thirds, as they still have tons of unsold Episode One merchandise
I did my part in supporting the Lucas franchise: My catharsis involved the purchase of 3 Jar Jar Binks action figures, an old microwave, an extension cord and my backyard. Of course, after the 2nd one has been melted in the microwave, most of the curative effect has expended itself.
Give them an inch and they'll take a foot. Much more than that, you won't have a leg to stand on.
Earlier, The Onion had a story saying that Congress was planning to impose limits on "incredibly stupid shit". Among the things that Congress was supposed to be upset about was thousands of left-over Jar Jar Binks dolls.
At least now I know no major characters die at the end of the movie.
However, thanks to the new toys released today, we know that Anakin loses his right arm at about the elbow in his hanger duel with Dooku, and Zam Wessel loses HER right arm in a nightclub scene.
Or maybe not.
All I know for sure is that those magnets they used to hold the severed arms onto the toys REALLY suck. Bump Anakin and his arm falls off.
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
bah. none of that stuff is canonical. Those books are the literary equivalent of deer hunter video games, they are just crap thrown together. I doubt lucas would blink at making them all anachronistic.
Think: Dragonlance "novels", Star Trek "novels", ad infinitum. I hate that stuff, it takes shelf space away from decent SF literature.
Here's an exercise for you.
If you don't see a problem with that, kindly stop breathing now. No wonder people don't take science fiction or fantasy stuff seriously, it's audience is largely composed of mouth breathers who can't tell the difference between Tolkein and Terry Brooks
You didn't cut merchandise because of any altrustic reason. You reduced the production of "Cheap plastic crap" because it wasn't selling as much as you thought it would.
Democrats or Republicans. They are both taking us to the same place and they are not afraid of us anymore.
I remember when I was a bit younger, some products would have tie ins...perhaps you would get a starwars toy in your frosted flakes or at McDonalds or something.
Now they are not even trying...they just have a "Star Wars Episode II" cereal - not even trying to hide a merchandising tie in.
What's next: "Star Wars Corn Based Merchandising with Sugar"
no, but it certainly takes someone alot smarter the average person.
Disclaimer:The "Human" attached to this account is unresponsible for anything unless it wants responsibility.
email:nospam@slashdot.org
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Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
great quote from this time magazine article.
el diablo the hack himself says, "Fans are very opinionated, and that's good. But I can't make a movie for fans."
hey thanks george. i put your god damn kids through school asshole. along with paying for all your yarmulkes bitch.
At the end of episode one, Annakin kept stumbling and each time he stumbled, he accidently (and unknowingly) destroyed more of the enemy. The force is really strong with you if you keep goofing up and kicking ass simultaneously. Jar jar was doing the same exact thing on the battlefield with his fellow gungans against the drones. He slips on a big elephant thingy, he kills the robots with the giant blue energy balls that fall out due to his clumsiness. He tries to rid himself of a piece of drone with a rifle that has latched onto his leg, he "accidently" ends up using the drone to blast its fellow drones. As scary as it seems, Jar jar has more metaclorins than the average Gungan, though he appears to have far less brain cells.
Ergonomica Auctorita Illico!
"Dis time wesa no be overstimatin da demanding for da episode two merchandise. Mesa now be blowin' all da movie makin."
Ergonomica Auctorita Illico!
Here you can find a bunch of Star Wars trailer videos and spoofs.
Click here or here.
That is just the beginning of a long list of "moral" lessons relentlessly pushed by "Star Wars"...
The Brin piece is very interesting reading. Full text: http://www.salon.com/ent/movies/feature/1999/06/15 / rin_main/print.html.
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PGP Key ID 0xCB8FF658
Am I the only person who like Jar-Jar from TPM? I thought he was funny! he made me laugh he was so silly! maybe i was stoned every time i saw it(good BC buds) but still he cracked me up! anyone else out there liked jar jar?
If you don't like it don't watch it. Every movie had it's good and bad points so don't complain.
I wonder if George Lucas sincere about episode II being better than the first one. This could just be hype. It is nice to see him admit that the first one wasn't good. Whatever the case I will in line to see it when it comes out with the rest of the clones...err, I mean movie-goers.
FoundNews.com - get paid to blog.,
You realize that you're modding me down worse than the guy who originally posted the inflammatory article?
He pasted some long ass thing without line breaks, so I suggested he start using them so that his post is readable. I didn't mind the original off-topic post, but since then I've been modded as off topic AND a troll, for a total of -3 points. I went to the partent post and he only got modded down once. Give me a break!!! When I responded to it, it had like a score of 3 'interesting'!
*Anybody* posting, whether on or off topic, can use the advice of 'use line breaks'. As I said, modding me down as off topic since I was responding to an off topic post is fine, but taking away THREE POINTS is ridiculous!!! All I said was 'Line breaks are your friend.'
I expect this one will get modded down too. I did turn off the +1 bonus at least. You may consider what I'm saying to be off-topic or inflammatory, but I urge you to consider how you'd feel if you lost more points to telling somebody to use line breaks (I.e. make their posts READABLE) and tell me if you think you'd react any differently.
"Derp de derp."
Star Wars trilogy changed our lives and had an impact on the entire US culture and still has revolutionary impacts on the movie making industry.
It is too easy to pick apart and focus on the detriments of any project, but it's not too hard to assert the good stuff about Episode I.
Make no mistake: there are things about Episode 1 that I disliked, but I challenge you to find and add to the good things below.
So the only positive thing is that with so much backstory missing - he slipped in a lot of goodies.
Episode 1 had warts, but the movie stands up to the franchise. The hype and the marketing were a problem, but consider the fact that 20+ years have passed since you saw Star Wars.
No new movie will beat out revolutionary nostalga: the children will pale in the shadow of the parent.
You are not the same person as you were 20 years ago, so give the movie a chance. Episode II will be amazing in many ways: I can't wait to spent another two+ hours in the Star Wars universe again. Can you?
My opinions are my own, but you may share them!
Obviously I care enough to post, but beyond that? Frankly, I'd managed to put Star Wars entirely out of my mind until I saw a trailer for it in front of Blade 2.
Now, compare this to drooling in anticipation before Phantom Menace. Downloading the trailers the instant they became available online. Being hailed as a demi-god by the people I was living with for being the first to download the trailer and get it playing. Buying the soundtrack a week before the movie even appeared. In short, alot of faith from a relatively rational person.
This time, there's none of that. It's not that I really disliked Phantom Menace - I'll even defend Jar Jar to a point. The problem was that it didn't measure up to my (overly) high expectations, and didn't compare well with the other movies.
There's a bright side complementing the dark though. If it turns out to be a pile of festering shite, I've only wasted a few bucks, and there's no emotional attachment. If it holds its own against the originals, we can forgive George Lucas his mistake, and go off in perfect bliss knowing that all is right with the world again.
did daddy forget to fuck you up the ass tonight? thank you for your opinion, i appreciate it.
keep it simple.
The toys are cool, hey Big George, how about less pop-up ads and insulting flash ads that wont go away.... TH
Yeah I actually read one of the Timothy Zahn books, a friend brought it on vacation and I got curious.
Dude it's crap. My review:Mortgage payment was due, eh Tim?
If you want some high quality action-adventure stuff try reading Zelazny's Amber series. Smart, funny, exciting, and all at an eighth grade reading level. That is much more the literary equivalent of Star Wars than any of those shitty novelizations.
I remember watching episode 1, and at the end, thinking to myself:
am i convinced that darth maul was bad?
just cos he had red stuff on his face, and he was cloaked in black, they expected me to swallow the bit that he was pure evil.
here's the thing: in the old movies, Vader was actually developed as a character. You *knew* he was a bad guy, cos of what he said and did. Did darth maul even say anything in the whole movie?
I know that Lucas probably though 'well, i'm going to kill off this bad guy at the end, anyway', but that doesn't excuse sloppy character development as far as I'm concerned.
As seen in the local supermarket... Star Wars Episode II Breakfast Cereal. Basically Lucky Charms with "marshmellows" shaped like light saber weilding Jedi.
Not a breakfast cereal sponsored by EpII. Its own damn cereal!
42 - So long and thanks for all the fish.
You gotta pay attention. In EPI its said that Yoda teaches the kids, during the very beginning of their training, for several years. Then tehy become an apprentie to a Jedi.
... he was just a wee lad at that point though.
So Obi-wan did learn from yoda
-Mark
Dovie'andi se tovya sagain.
Some points from that article about what Lucas is having us believe:
Unfortunately, I couldn't read the original article because of my workplace's fascist filtering policies. However, these themes are fairly common in fantasy, which tends to glorify monarchy and aristocracy and tradition for the sake of itself. I would guess that is a holdover from our fairy tales and folktales, that were mostly composed by people for whom king and noblity were and had been the expected government for literally millenia, for whom change came in the form of rebellion, war, famine and plague, all of which were considered Bad Things.
OTOH, I am slightly disturbed by science fiction authors (*cough* Jerry Pournelle *cough*) who uphold rule by an elite as a great idea for the future, and portray democracy as nothing more than mob rule or rule by demogogues. If this idea seems good to you, go re-read A Connecticutt Yankee in King Arthur's Court, which isn't nearly as funny as movie adaptations make it out to be--it's rather a vicious attack on the apologists for slavery and on rule by an aristocracy. Eric Flint, in his author's notes to 1632, also had some rude things to say about this trend in science fiction. (Good book, btw.)
Most of the real myths of antiquity are too ambiguous, and have characters that are too much a mix of good and evil, too many shades of gray, and too many non-happy endings for the watered-down pap that is considered suitable for families and children these days. IMHO, the real myths have great value for children and adults of all ages, because they depict people as they really are, conflicted by emotions and desires both good and evil, and usually show the consequences of following the wrong path.Recommended reading along those lines: The Iliad, The Odyssey, The Ramayana, and The Mahabharata(sp?). That's just the ones I'm most familiar with; I'm still exploring the literature of mythology.
---dragoness
Odd. Usually, when someone "makes a movie for the fans" he's derided for selling out and people attack him for losing artistic integrity.
However, when George Lucas decides NOT to make movie for the fans and instead make HIS OWN decisions (even if some of those are misguided) he's ripped apart.
Maybe it's just me, but something about that doesn't add up...
I don't see why Lucas doesn't just release a new version of Episode I that doesn't suck, and offer it to the public as a "Special Edition" version.
Oh yeah, because then he'd have to give the Phantom Editor credit for coming up with the idea first.
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
favOUrite? Nice. You are a pompous british asshole.
Try Canadian.
Sorry that I may have misjudged you as being gay.
I'll live
And as far as my post being an ad hominem attack, or calling you an asshole being ad hominem. Well, calling those who enjoyed books like the Zahn trilogy mouth-breathers hardly helps your argument. You insult a group, you get insulted. That's the breaks.
Heh, yeah I guess I did. twice, actually. oops!
It had been about 7 years after jedi that Heir to the Empire(Zahn trilogy book one) was realeased. People were begging to be taken back to that fantasy world. The books were actually pretty well written and the story was interesting. Oh no! the books were successful and a mass market created!
I actually always figured it was children who were the target audience
Yes, many of the books written have been shit. Barbara Hambly's two books being prime examples of a godawful author with a star wars license.
Licensed material, as in "we'll sell the license instead of making a quality product" is usually garbage. This is my core point
Most of these books were written before The Jar-Jar movie hit the theaters. A time when we didn't quite realize what a slimeball Lucas is. The star wars universe was a nice escape and not so quickly associated with taco bell, n'sync, and 5 year-olds.
Irrelevant. I love Star Wars - see my post elsewhere in the thread about actually enjoying TPM.
One more thing, if star wars novels are somehow pushing your literary masterpieces off the shelves, try shopping at a bigger bookstore.
If it were really that easy .. the problem is that publishing is a zero-sum game. The more garbage that gets printed, the less of the "good stuff" that does.
Look at it this way. If a movie like "Dungeons and Dragons" had been a commercial success, there would be a lower probability that good stuff like "Fellowship of the Ring" gets made - if you can stuff shit down the audience's throats, why bother trying to find quality?
Well, they had to do something with these.
"Be Happy or Die." -- AoN