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MS Putting the Squeeze on Alternative Audio
renard writes: "Some interesting developments during the last two days of the Microsoft antitrust trial, as reported by AP: MS Executive Linda Averett has admitted that Internet Explorer trumps user preferences for audio playback, and explains away a failure of IE6 searches to find RealAudio sites as a "mistake by the search team." My personal favorite: an MS-internal email exchange where one employee suggests that everyone "Remember the 'embrace and extend' campaigns we've used in the past," and an MS executive admonishes that "We need to keep all of this off the airwaves." See also related stories at Yahoo, CNN, and the NYT."
Judge Jackson may have been so personally pissed at MS he did something legally questionable, but now MS is showing their stripes to an "impartial" judge. I don't think Judge CKK is going to be the pushover they hoped.
"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
...but does anybody else get the impression that this whole 'anti-trust' trial is just a big giant dog and pony show to keep everybody happy and make the government look like they arent all up on big biz's jock ?
Sorry, but if I tried to pass off some of the crap that MS has in these trials, i'ld be in jail on contempt charges.
Maybe i'm naive, but i think the gov doesnt really give a fxck about MS or their 'anti-competitive' practices, they just brought out the smoke and mirrors...
I lost my concept of community when my community lost all concept of me.
This really isn't much worse than the hoops that RealPlayer makes you go through to remove it as your default media player. After about 4 "Are you really, really, really sure you want to Disalbe StartCenter" messages it lets you. Besides - they make you upgrade about once a month so that all your preferences get reset to RealPlayer again anyway... I don't know who would actually PAY for their crappy product.
Interesting.. Once again Microsoft proves just how stupid their Rhode's scholar winning, 4.0 GPA, full ride to Haaahhhhvaaad (MIT, Cal-tech, Yale, etc.), over achieving, 1600 on the SAT, employees really are.
...the OS will soon be al wrapped up in the browser. Already, PDFs, Word docs, image files, FTP sites, audio, video clips and more all open directly into the browser window.
.Net gets going for real, apps will be ditributed and you won't ever have to leave the browser to do anything.
And, how convenient: as soon as
-c
I have discovered a truly remarkable proof which this margin is too small to contain.
How can you "accidentally" not show Real Audio search results? Huh, whoops, guess all y'all have to use Windows Media Audio now...
"... She said the problem was fixed two weeks ago -- over a month after the states' top lawyer, Brendan Sullivan, showed the search problem during opening arguments as evidence of Microsoft's wrongdoing,
So the "problem" was presented as evidence of wrong doing, so they went ahead and fixed it. Is this similar to tampering with evidence?
John
The drops of water don't know themselves to be a river; and yet the river flows.
Share and Enjoy!
"Teachers leave us kids alone
I'd be appreciative if M$ would kill the invasive practices of Quicktime and RealPlayer from taking over the duties of simple wav playback from the perfectly capable default media player applet.
Very annoying.
All I want Quicktime and RealPlayer to do is play back ONLY their respective proprietary formats.... nothing else!!!
HA HA.
anyway.......
my god, is it just me or do MS execs seem to just not get prosecuted for purgery?
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
no its not that their employees are stupid... its just that they're all laywers
crowbar??
"It was clearly a mistake by the search team..."
This is true. The code is very complex and mistakes can easily be made...
if player != realplayer
addList(player);
It could happen...
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
Somebody sad that they didn't get a job at MS??? I worked as an intern there for two summers, and let me assure you that most of the employees are NOT snooty, private school grads. A lot of them are just the opposite, in fact.
I've been reading this for months... and you know it still seems like of all the things you could do to punish microsoft or increase competitiveness, this has to be one of the most trivial.
Ignore the propriatary file formats, ignore the "microsoft tax" contracts, ignore the insane EULA's, Ignore the nasty anti-OpenSource traps in their code releases, (your prof in CSI 101 saw our code so your open source project 5 years later violates our IP...) Ignore all the other dirty tricks they are playing and make them take out the ability to download files, or listen to music out of the box??? what the HECK! The whole organization must be stifling giggles and telling the lawyers to fight it out just so the court doesn't realize how easy athey are getting off.
I wish a beautiful memeber of the opposite sex would give me an embrace and extend campaign.
anybody saying such an evil thing should be pissed on
If at first you don't succeed, then sky diving definitely isn't for you.
When Microsoft has billions going into research and a dominant desktop position, how can one expect an open AV standard to become prevelent, especailly when one considers the effort that goes into creating good codecs.
Don't get me wrong. If I had to pick between Real, QT, and Windows Media, I'd take Windows Media. QT asks me every damn time I look at something if I want to buy it. Real runs hidden applications when Windows loads and only recently stopped its practice of asking me if I want to upgrade.
Is the problem with universities? Are any researcher doing work on codecs that could end up in the open forum? Does Ogg Vorbis do everything that we need?
A speech...
The quote in the story is a little misleading. Here is the full quote:
The Microsoft executive is stating that the discussion of what they are doing and why needs to be kept off the email "airwaves." In my mind, this is actually more damning, because it intimates that he knows what they are doing could get them in trouble.
Sorry about the AC post, but I don't have my password here to login.
I agree that RealPlayer is a nasty program that really messes up a lot of things in your computer, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that QuickTime is just as bad as RealPlayer. During the install of QuickTime, a dialog is displayed with checkboxes of the file formats to associate with QuickTime. If you don't want it associated, its easy enough to uncheck the box, and your done.
Real Audio + Quicktime + Windows Media Player + Win amp all installed on the same machine is complete cluster f*** and a battle ground. I am sure there are a few more that I am forgetting, but this is a good start.
If a computer had emotions and I installed all these applications at the same time, it would be begging me to format its hard drive to stop the suffering.
-- Knowing too much can get you killed, but knowing who knows too much can make you rich.
This was one of the things that used to piss me off about windows. You'd tell it "do not open things up in the browser" and it would happily ask you "do you want to open things up in ie". It made me want to break the damn thing. As for realplayer, I refuse to use realplayer one, and don't like the registration crap either. You can prevent having to type that in by searching for the registry key ERegistered and seting it to a nonzero value in versions of realplayer before the new one.
There seems to be 2 sides to this arguement. One side hates MS and the other loves it, both sides of course are guilty of being wrong. We need a ruler to measure MS. In this instance they are doing something that is simple in their minds. They are trying to make the user XPerience an easyness in using their computer, "one stop shopping" of the 21st century. Is that wrong? Sure they muscled different companies out of business. Sure they are arrogant jerks who just want to make money with a good product. Welcome to America!
Here is the another thing, so you want to use Netscape, Opera, or any other webbowser or mediaplayer, or unzipper, or pdf file opener go ahead install it and never, ever click on the IE icon or the Media Player icon, or any other, click on the other one that you lie silly! Really simple stuff man.
We have people trying to make MS give them their barebones version of XP so that they can use it as they please. That is like going to McDonald's and just buying a big bucket of their secret sauce or like getting upset because your Ford Expedition didn't come in Neon green and asking them to sell you an Expedition without any paint on it. Gimme a break, sure they are a big company and "we" do not like that, but let's be fair even to them. Sure, not all of you feel this way, but if you do please think it over!
If you want to mod down go ahead, I have a -3 karma so freedom of speech is no longer up to par with the rest of the world for me.
"Entertain the Brutes"
...and go use something else. This is the kind of thing that drives me a bit insane, since this fuels the fire of people thinking that using Microsoft products is the only way of using a computer. "I can't use this because Microsoft won't let me....wahhhhh...." There are other products out there. Don't like Internet Explorer? Go use Opera. Don't like MS Office, go use OpenOffice. Don't like Windows? Go use Linux or Mac OSX, or FreeBSD, or etc...
If enough people start using other products, perhaps Microsoft will take notice and start building things that people actually want. It's called market tendencies folks...not exactly rocket science.
Rule #1 -- Politics always trumps technology.
the computer room had a nice big red button. It was the power shutdown for the entire data center.
It had a nice sign over it.
"Do not accidentally, on purpose, press this button."
I believe the same concept applies here.
-- Knowing too much can get you killed, but knowing who knows too much can make you rich.
As a friend of mine so eloquently put, "Blocking Real Audio is a bad thing?"
You need a FREE iPod Nano
It's been a while since I've installed it as a plugin, but I don't recall being given the choice on WAV files the last time I installed it - I seem to recall only being allowed to deselect image formats, again, Quicktime had NO BUSINESS handling formats the native software could already handle; why should Quicktime need to handle my JPEGs and BITMAPs?
No applet or plugin should associate itself with a media type without some means to undo that specific association. Another annoying one was Beatnik, IIRC. That one was shareware that died after 30 days and then prevented you from listening to WAV files until you uninstalled it.
If ie is monitorring what you do on something as trivial as a type of music format then that means that it "is" monitoring you. Now they have more of a liability in general. I know it is far fetched but ms only defence when their products are being used for kiddie porn or to cicumvent national security is that they dont monitor what goes thru ie. Now they cant use this defence because they "are" monitoring ie they have already removed thier own "moral" objections to monitoring their customers.
The Borg assimilated my race & all I got was this lousy T-shirt
And I imagine that the dialogue went something like this:
Judge: "What about searches?"
MS: "Oh, that was a mistake"
Judge: "and the bit about IE ignoring preferences?"
MS: "That was a mistake too."
Judge: "Is there anything that you did that WASN'T a mistake?"
MS: "No, your honor."
Judge: "Can you explain these mistakes to me?"
MS: "Umm, we got caught?"
The subject is beginning to show independent thought. This cannot be allowed. He must be made to follow the Slashdot edict that people whine about Microsoft and how powerless they are. Take him away and begin the reprogramming.
*shock* *gasp* *amazement* MS used underhanded tactics that were exposed in the trial and/or corporate emails. I feel like we're caught in a timewarp.
I wish once and for all that the general public and the US Court would realise that this is just another day at MS, and that we likely won't see the end of this type of MS BS til they actually implement either a breakup, or some other REAL sanctions.
If they won't play nicely with the other children, take away their toys. That's what parents do with spoiled children (at least they did when i was growing up).
Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo - H. G. Wells
To know how many of these "internal Microsoft e-mails" are frauds. I mean, I see an *awful* lot of them, and I'm not really looking for them.
46. The Hobo smiles, his eyes glaze over, and he burps. "Beware the man who has lived longer than the Wasteland."
Really, the first time IE 6.0 pops up its media window, it gives you a "Do you want to use the Media Bar to play all audio files?" prompt. I chose "No", and IE never bothered me with file associations again.
On the other hand, I installed RealOne a few weeks back and desipte unckeck a huge list of files it wanted to take over, I still grabbed quite a few. I attempted to reassociate them with Media Player and other programs, and guess what happened...
Next time I opened RealOne player, it popped up some "File Associations Agent" which said: "Another program or programs have attempted to associate RealOne Player-assoicated files with themselves. RealOne Player has re-associated all files."
WTF???
Nowhere did I choose to have these files associated with RealOne Player, nor did I choose any "maintain file associations" button. Not to mention, you can't even get rid of the resident aspects of RealOne Player. Just about every time I boot my computer (which, admittedly, is very rarely) I get some "RealOne Player Critical Notification" box that pops up. As far as I can tell, the best you can do is make it only show up "A few times a month"--there is no "GO AWAY YOU FSCKING ANNOYING POP-UP WINDOW!!!" option that I could find.
So, yeah. As evil as MS may possibly be, I don't feel bad for RealPlayer on this one. =P
-Jayde
What's a sig?
I've been using Internet Explorer 6 for over six months now, since I got a computer that was pre-loaded with Windows XP last year. Whenever I click on a link to an MP3, AVI, or other media file, I always get a dialog box saying "Would you like to play this in Internet Explorer?" I always check "Never ask me again," and click "No." However, for some reason, I keep getting asked this very same question every time!
I haven't tried it, but IE must only stop asking if you finally say "Yes."
For more information, click here.
Why don't you get off your rear and learn how to do that rather than whine about it?
Most Windoze users are so lazy that they want everything done for them...
A man who wants nothing is invincible
The one crippling characteristic of OSS is that there are few (if any) standards. When there are few standards, and everybody is using something different.
That in itself isn't a bad thing, but if the OSS community wants to overthrow M$, or at the very least claim market (user) share, standards have to be established so that there is one clear and very public alternative to the latest M$ offering.
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
This just emphasizes how hard Open Source companies like Linux and RealMedia are going to have to work to overcome the scourge that is Micro$oft. We have made great strides, and Linux and BSD combined now account for a full 1% of home computers (including OS X and discounting dual booting and versions of Windows pre-2k). These are numbers to be proud of, but still M$ treats the "Hacker" (not a bad term!) community as an insignificant force.
If you ask me, it's dirty tricks like these, trying to make their own proprietary mp3 format the standard, that indicate that they are actually afraid of Linux and Open Source. We have them on the run, now let's go in for the kill.
Karma: Good (despite my invention of the Karma: sig)
...don't know themselves to be a river...
ssshhhh!!! Don't tell them!
I want to be alone with the sandwich
I actually prefer MS's player over all the others... ESPECIALLY Real player. Its nearly the only one left that doesn't carry add-on spyware. At least you can disable the tracking on WMP. Most of the others take over the system and try to take control of every media type out there and carry pop-up banners and other crap I don't want to deal with.
.
Digital is, by definition, imperfect. Analog is the way to go.
Hmmmm.... and EXACTLY where is that done, short of messing with the registry directly?
I've tried to do that in the past. It doesn't use the same associations as the File Explorer; instead it loads the plugins and determines what to associate from them, at least that was the case when I tried to deal with it some time ago.
QT asks me every damn time I look at something if I want to buy it.
;-)
1. Set your system time many years ahead (like 2010)
2. Run QuickTime
3. When it asks you if you would like to upgrade, say no (of course!)
4. QuickTime will then write some secret registry key to remember when it should next remind you to upgrade. Fortunately, your next reminder is now scheduled for the year 2010!
5. Be sure to set your system time back!
cpeterso
Oh, so does that mean future versions of Windows will Embrace Open Source/Linux, and Extend support of Windows Programs so that other OSes can run them?
In the words of Young Darth Vader, "Yippie!"
/^[A-Z0-9._%+-]+@[A-Z0-9.-]+\.[A-Z]{2,4}$/i
The first thing I do when I roll out a new windows box, is point the browser to winamp.com. It's a decent player once configured properly, and plays almost everything under the sun. I just wish it had better video support. Winamp would be the best Media Player replacement I've seen yet.
I heard there's a really cool media player out of Hungary or something, that comes with neat extra programs too. Perhaps we should bundle that with Windows instead.
Thanks.... maybe I'll give it a shot once more.
Overbearing plugins have made me a bit gunshy about using them.
Actually, I thought this showed that some of their executives actually are honest enough to tell the truth when under oath. If the employees were stupid, they would be trying to lie while they are up on the stand.
What I think this does show is how unprepared M$'s lawyers are for some of these witnesses. The lawyers should have spent a lot of time prepping the witnesses; they should have expected these questions and coached the witnesses on how to answer truthfully without hurting the case.
--- Biffster.org
"Bite my shiny metal ass."
Microsofties testifying poorly for the company. Yesterday, Microsoft's Will Poole, vice president in charge of the company's Windows New Media Platform division, conceded that he couldn't think of anything Microsoft had done with its audio and video capabilities to address a trial court's April 2000 findings against the company.
The states also brought out an email from a different Microsoft employee, Kurt Buecheler, who wrote that when Microsoft went to distribute market development money to computer manufacturers, "a key criteria will be shipping Windows Media Player."
Today, when the states lawyer enquired as to why IE6 played music files with WMP technology even if the user had selected RealPlayer as their default, Microsoft executive Linda Averett said Microsoft could use RealNetworks software to play music in Internet Explorer, but chooses not to.
"The reason it is not replaceable is that Microsoft does not allow it to be replaceable, correct?" Schmidtlein (dissenting states attorney) asked.
"Correct, it is an integrated feature," Averett testified.
She also testified about the complaint by RealNetworks that the XP search program couldn't find RealNetworks files. She claimed it was a mistake that had been fixed two weeks ago. This would make it a month after states' top lawyer, Brendan Sullivan, showed the search problem during opening arguments as evidence of Microsoft's wrongdoing.
Yesterday's testimony: http://news.com.com/2100-1001-900213.htmlr osoft-Antitrust.html
Today's testimony: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/technology/AP-Mic
Lacovara asked Madnick if the fact that the academic couldn't name another operating system without a browser that couldn't be removed was important. Madnick said it was not, and said a remarkable feat had been performed by software engineers at Microsoft. "The fact that they have designed it this way is a benefit," he said.
hehe, sure, it's been beneficial in crushing competition. this is from the same guy who thought kde and gnome were operating systems, btw.
This (hopefully) teaches everyone here not to use microsoft products. And yes I do take into consideration the fact that many of you have to use microsoft tripe at work. Just don't use it at home. Please. And by this, I mean no more office 2000 purchases, no more purchases of computers with windows pre-installed, nothing. Just cut them off. One geek at a time. It will eventually work.
:)
Thanks for your cooperation
Well, usually.
Hold shift, right click the file, select open with... Check the box that says always use this app for these types of files.
Saying Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.
I had no idea the Microsoft anti-trust suit was this exciting. Are they broadcasting it on C-Span?
Some are given suckers and some get lollipops
Slightly off topic....
Allright, so I'm reading through the Chapter 4: Processes section (brushing up on my basic threads and synchronization concepts) of the Silberschatz/Galvin "Operating Systems Concepts" (you know, the dinosaur book) and it hits me. Fundamentally, all this garbage MS bundles in its "OS" is extraneous to an operating system. Looking through the book, there's no chapter on Media Players, no chapter on Web Browsers, no chapter on personal information managers....no chapter on WINDOW MANAGERS!!! These things are not part of the OS proper.
Has anyone at any point in these hearings ever offered up a working defenition of a computer operating system? Don't you think that would go a long way toward determining exactly what should and shouldn't be "part of" an operating system? It seems to me like everyone involved is working backward by looking at individual, extraneous components and querying whether it is or isn't "part of" the OS. Shouldn't they really figure out what an OS is and then look at the components to see if they belong?
Truly, the book provides a very basic, somewhat low level, and very academic view of operating systems (basically the OS facilitates IO, Storage Management, Process Management, Security and possibly Networking/Distributed Computing in using a given collection of hardware). I would grant that at this point having some kind of GUI environment for an OS is pretty much a requirement in order to make a machine "useable" by an appreciable number of people. But after that how much further do you have to go?
It seems to me that looking at things from this perspective would make it abundantly clear to everyone involved that MS has gone way beyond the bounds of what an OS is in their Windows product. It would also probably provide obvious deliniation points for breaking up the business (for instance there is no good reason for the window manager to be integrated with the underlying graphics routines). It would also highlight just how spurious all of MS's arguments are in regards to how breaking things up would ruin MS Windows, by highlighting either that MS has no clue about what an OS actually is and their code is incredibly flawed as a result, OR (more likely) MS has gone to great lengths to obscure what an OS actually is to further their own ends at the expense of the user and other application developers.
Admittedly it is not as all cut and dried in practice as it is in acedamia, but I do believe that attempting to establish the basic notion of what an OS is would further illuminate the problems presented by MS's current approach to its "operating system" in relation to the States' (and our) concerns in this case.
See I knew paying attention in class (or at least keeping the books I was supposed to have read for class) would pay off some day....
I don't see anywhere in your quote where the gentlemen acknowledges why they need to keep it off the airwaves nor do I see anything that implies that he thinks the discussion implies guilt or wrongdoing.
It would seem to me that alot of people are implying some evil intent where it's very possible that none may have been. Often when you get a group of people discussing a topic, especially one like "embrace/extend" you get into discussions that should not be had. Additionally you get people responding that know little about what they are talking about or who think they know or who've heard from a friend of a friend. What started as normal business conversation can quickly turn to rumor, conjecture, and assumption. Then when records get supoened the lawyers go through and find a statement like "I heard on the internet that Bill said he was poised to take over the world with some new hidden code". The whole thing gets put into evidence but they only mention "Bill said he was..." and noone ever has the time to put it all in context. Hence you get alot of implied intent by statements that really don't have anything evil behind them. Maybe the veep just didn't want to see "Tom" (the guy who has an opinion about everything (usually a negative one)) get into the discussion and turn it into a flame fest.
Additionally the "Embrace, Extend" ideal is not a bad one. It's the premise that almost everything that we have is built on including opensource. How could we ever progress without embracing what we have and extending upon it. The problem is that there is a last word that keeps getting added to the conversation "Extinguish". I'm not sure that this is something that can be directly attributed to MS or not as I see it passed only by Anti-MS zealots.
"Extinguish" is an ambiguous term. As you embrace a concept and extend it eventually the original concept is replaced by it's newer extended and in theory better counterpart. The original concept is not destroyed, it remains, just unused. But if the "extinguishment" of an object is for the control of the object then you get into the wrongfulness of the practice.
My point is that in order to show wrong doing you have to do more than just throw in a couple of disparate statements made by who knows. You have to show a consistent pattern of intent. You have to have a focus, because if you take 40 different statements by 40 different people in a 1000+ person company you can't really equate that to a conspiracy or evil. On the flip side if you take 40 different statments by 4 different people in the same company and they are of sufficient rank and privilage to motivate the company towards certain practices then you MAY be able to show intent.
Personally I'm just tired of buzz word bingo and buzz phrase bingo where the media and people take statements without qualification and read deeper more meaningful intent into them.
It's like if I said "I want to feed the world" and someone started conspiracy theories about how "I want to rule the world". Oh it all makes perfect sense. If I want to feed the world I could only do it if things were in proper order and how can I get them into the proper order if I don't control everything.
sophistry - 1 : subtly deceptive reasoning or argumentation
"Do not be swept up in the momentum of mediocrity." - anon
I use Windows, and I like MS' Media Player. It is good. It's not the best audio player, but its a good audio/video combination.
MS Media player is vastly superior to Real and Apple players. However, in terms of sound, its not nearly as good as WinAmp or FreeAmp. MS Media Player has managed not to become as bloated as Apple's and Real's products, but its still bloated. What's the point of those large buttons on the left side of it? MS should've stuck with the classic format.
Anyways, it isn't as good as WinAmp for music, and isn't as good as DivXPlaya for video.
Despite Media Player being good, that doesn't justify MS' abuses of its OS position to force people to use Win Media Player. People and OEM's should have the choice about what software the OS uses to play media file, NOT MS.
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
Speaking as a Windows whore...I'll take MS over that virus posing as software that is Real networks. Install them once...then try to do ANYTHING related to audio that they don't try to get their hooks into. Hate it...I'll take MS "integration" over that POS any day!!! Thus endeth my rant.
Read the trial transcripts yourself:
t li ng.asp
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/legal/nonset
I've noticed a lot of the reporting has been pretty bizarre, taking points out of context and so forth. When you actually read the full testimony you see it within the context. The lawyers are often trying to press a point, and it may take them 10 questions to lead into it. Often the witness may seem to be playing dumb, but really it's because they have to be very careful and answer tightly worded questions with pertinent answers. Generally a witness is only brought in to testify on a very specific subset of information, and questions outside of those bounds are not allowed. It's a cat & mouse game because the lawyers are always trying to set up the witness, and I find it quite fun to watch.
getting IE to play my .mp3 links in WinAmp instead of Quicktime. The garsh-darn thing just refuses to do it.
Of course, that may be a Quicktime trick but stil..
My $0.02 will always be worth more than your â0.02, so
Alot of posts point out that the RealPlayer does many of the "Questionable" things MS is so famous for. This is no coincidence. Rob Glaser, founder and CEO of Real, was a MS employee in their multimedia division (such as it was at the time). I read about him in 1995 when Real first launched and how he had a vision to bring multimedia into the Internet mainstream but MS evidently hadn't yet caught the vision. Apparantly Rob knew once MS did get "The Vision" he would have a fierce fight on his hands. Because he had worked for MS for so many years he knew pretty much what to expect and put many wheels into motion to keep Real alive during the fight. Whether it was enough is up for debate but one thing is for sure. What that is I have no idea.
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
Hmmmm... I just tried it, to test, on an mp3 file link, and got no "Open With..." option in my context menu.
When Microsoft has billions going into research and a dominant desktop position, how can one expect an open AV standard to become prevelent, especailly when one considers the effort that goes into creating good codecs.
... if you want a web browser capable plugin, write it and free yourself from the Microsoft monopoly. Then you at least have a comfortable codec you can use until the Asbolutely Free with No Ifs, Ands, or Buts Ogg Tarkin codec is released.
There are already good codecs out there, and more on the horizon. Nuppal or xvid come to mind as two excellent codecs (I'm encoding all of my Max Headroom episodes into xvid, and using this methodology under GNU/Linux I end up with quality video that exceeds the quality of the program on the television as I was watching the broadcast, easilly burnable onto a data DVD to boot.
Absolutely phenominal, and the xvid (a variant of opendivx if I'm not mistaken) can be scaled down as much as needed for web pages (at a cost in quality and/or resolution).
So, if you want a good, open audio/video codec write a Netscape/IE/Mozilla plugin that supports xvid video with oggvorbis encoded audio. The tools to make the video are already free and exist on virtually every platform
I guarantee you many (perhaps most) web page authors who are doing this sort of thing as a hobby (most websites) and want video would take a free(dom) codec over a non-free one given the choice, similiar capabilities, and the opportunity, and there is no reason for us to be beholden to Microsoft, Apple, or anyone else with all the free tools and implimentations available on just about every platform at this point in the game.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
I hope this is reasonably on-topic, in that it relates to MS tying features together in what seems a monopolostic way...
I was trying to set up web-cams with my bro-in-law and started with MSN Messenger. After signing up for a Passport (guess I sold my soul...), I then signed in, but was prevented from broadcasting my Webcam. Why ? Because I run Win2k.
MSN Messenger informed me that in order for it (a stand-alone application, one would think...) to work with a Webcam I had to upgrade to XP.
So we just used Yahoo instead.
However, the more I think about it, the more it annoyed me...to get an application to work I have to upgrade the OS, when other vendors are perfectly able to provide the same features without the upgrade ? I suppose it's what they call great marketing...
No, this is not evidence tampering. The version of Windows used to present this "bug/feature" is still intact. What Microsoft has done is released a patch to fix this "bug/feature" for the general public. The copy of Windows submitted into evidence is still in the same state as it was upon being submitted.
However, fixing this problem does make Microsoft look more guilty (if that is possible).
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
If you miss type a URL on the address line, IE6 default configuration is to search MSN.com for
the misstyped URL. Of course, you can turn this address line searching off in the
tools>options>advanced menu, but if you mistype another URL, it'll turn itself right back on.
No shit -- try it at home.
"We need to keep all of this off the airwaves."
You always see stuff like this in leaked microsoft emails / memos, whatever...
This makes me wonder if there's anything else out there that they've successfully managed to keep off of the airwaves... I mean, since they keep saying to keep things hush hush it must be working or else they wouldn't even bother to send an email out and trust people to keep it quiet... So far everything that's been leaked is about things that are already know like FUD...
I just have to wonder what other secrets are lurking in Mordor...
There are 10 types of people in this world, those who can count in binary and those who can't.
And speaking of the Windows Media Player, I don't see where your complaint is coming from. Simply upgrade the player at the Windows Update site. If you upgrade IE you also get offered a chance to update your Windows Media Player. It is really not that hard.
The big problem with doing it this way is that you will have to fix the associations that Microsoft so thoughtfully broke for you afterwards...
A man who wants nothing is invincible
Since it is default OS on all Macs now shipping, OS X alone is at least 2 or 3 percent of the home computing market.
Let's divide this project in to sub-components, so when we get conquered we will be able to can the entire (insert team here) team and claim "those people were lying sons of b*tches. We've canned 'em and we're clean now. Now leave us alone to hire another equally bad team." Not to mention that the (insert team here) was instructed to do so, and as such - if they DIDN'T program it in, they'd get fired. And when M$ gets caught, they're fired anyway.
Bah. "Mistake on the part of the Search team." It's more like "Netscape found... and removed. Press OK to apologize."
Nope, I don't get the point. Everything that you say is FUD. People need to understand this: Good alternatives exist.
Now go get yourself a real operating system.
The way MS eecutives and apologists are screaming reminds me of the way Republicans were protesting the innocence of Richard Nixon, right up to the day He pesigned as President due to the threatened impeachment. There is a similarity in the nervous hysteria.
Of course, clinton showed it is possible to survive if you have your partisans in a row, and people are going after you for the wrong reasons. Mind you, I think Clinton should have been nailed, but not for the reasons that were used.
Keeping on point, the appearance in some quarters is that of superbly restrained terror.
These folks don't get it.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
Man, the way things are going, MS might be better off resurrecting OpenDoc or something.
When the University of Oklahoma was found to have committed recruiting violations in connection with its football program, it was punished with a five (?) year suspension of eligibility to participate in end-of-season Bowl games (note to non-U.S. readers: these are very popular, extremely lucrative showcase exhibition games, and the potential to play in them upon making the team is a motive for choosing one school over another by prospective University students who play football). Oklahoma's football program was effectively crushed by this penalty; it was only assessed after proof that the violations had been serious, pervasive and persistent over years. That's kind of the way it's been for Microsoft, except they still act as though they can never be assessed a penalty serious enough to make their company change its ways.
An analogous penalty to punish anticompetitive behavior by a monopoly: No Enforcement of Copyright for Microsoft products for One Full Year!
Think, write, think, edit, think...then post.
Google listing scientology sites ostensibly means they'll get sued and lose money in the process.
Microsoft listing Real Audio links means their users will have to go through the agony of installing that godawful media player and possibly fricking up their systems, causing someone along the lines lost money and time trying to get that parasite off the machine. Worst-case (and you're grasping at straws here if you believe it) is that MS' _free_ media player is losing mindshare to Real's buggy, crash-happy, costly media player, which somehow translates into, uh. Lost revenue for Real in the same way that delisting scientology sites on Google translates into lost money for scientology?
Either that or shame on Microsoft for not advertising its competition.
Easy does it!
This comment has been submitted already, 276865 hours , 59 minutes ago. No need to try again.
Oh man, I wish. I loved OpenDoc. No, the concept wasn't fully developed yet, but it had SO much potential. I really wish Apple would bring it back.
...but not to bail out MS :-)
A case in point, my favorite station is www.wdvx.com (americana) which only plays microsoft media because the time is donated and that is their only choice. So, I have to use vmware to play my favorite internet radio.
And in the most shocking development in this story to date: people are still surprised by this...
full *AND ACCURATE* API documentation detailing all APIs that non-OS tasks can call.
Bought any bridges lately?
That is actually what the prof is getting at. IE is actually a pretty small EXE that calls several DLLs that are part of the O/S proper.
What this means is that every program running on Windows can make use of the http protocol module without having to write its own. Every program can make use of the XML parser, HTML display widget etc. etc.
On a linux box Mozilla is a monolithic piece of code. You can add plug ins into Mozilla, but it is not designed to allow you to reuse the components (except by going to the source).
What this means is that there are a lot of other Windows features that depend on the IE dlls. For example Quicken and tax cut both use the http and html DLLs. So you can remove the IE shell from the system, but that is only the interface, it is not the application. If you remove the IE DLLs really bad things start to happen (and things you want to happen stop happening).
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
I am concerned your comment may be more reflective of your ability to try than it is of Linux's capabilities. You don't give any particulars regarding distribution of Linux or the monitor type. Linux not understanding the monitor doesn't mean Linux wouldn't work at some level on it. It is highly likely that there are adjustments that could easily made to make it behave optimally. If you are saying you wished you had help, describe the problem, people will voluntarily give help or point to an informative resource. Next time your Windows misbehaves, or welcomes in a new virus, try getting help from Gates without paying for the time. However, you might find people here who could point you to good help. Since you chose to remain under Bill Gate's rules, I presume you are duly diligent in conforming to all his software EULAs, and have all your software receipts, original media, proofs of purchase, and keep that check book open for upcoming upgrades. If so, you are fully ready to respond to the BSA in case of a software audit and have a lawyer on stand by.
So let me get this straight since I disagree that it's clear cut based on the on-liner evidence then suddenly I'm so low on the IQ chart that I can't even support life processes with my inadequate brain power.
Why is it that when someon disagrees with the "mob rule" here on slashdot that they get insulted and accused of being a shill or a "microsoftie" or worse a troll. One is not a troll for having an opinion that's unpopular, one is a troll for taking a stance contrary to the popular one for the sole purpose of being unpopular. I'm attempting to get people to use their brains in that a ONE LINE STATEMENT is not an HUGE evidence towards guilt. I never implied that MS had not done something illegal or that they had not been found in a court of law guilty of crimes. What I stated was that people are going overboard taking one line statements and adding their own implied intent to them. Much like everyone took my statement and suddenly implied that I'm a shill, or a troll simply because I like to try logic first.
"Do not be swept up in the momentum of mediocrity." - anon
Can anyone tell me why the this parent isn't at 0 or -1 for posting a link to microsoft and teeling us not to rely on the news services?
Microslop just can NOT suck enough.
They make ol' John D. look positively meek in comparison. That's John D. Rockefeller, if you were wondering.
All you reactionary horse's asses out there, take note: even a notable 'conservative' such as Robert H. Bork knows an outrageous affront to capitalism when he sees one.
There is precious little in the way of redeeming factors in what MS does as a matter of course, day in and day out, in their quest to eliminate even the possibility of competition. MS is utterly nefarious.
Have you seen the multiple articles on the Register and elsewhere comparing the installation of Windows to Mandrake? Mandrake is easier. But that's not the point, because how many users actually install Windows? Very few. Instead, through anti-competitive practices, Windows is thrust upon the general public, who do not know how to buy a computer without a pre-installed operating system.
I hope you're not insinuating that Windows is the king of standards. If you are not, then the comparison to linux is invalid. If you are, well, surely you must be joking.
Support from 1 in 5 vendors is a great achievement for the free software community. What, you think that this ratio is going to diminish? What was that ratio just a couple of years ago? The fact is that free software, and Linux in particular is making great inroads, gaining mindshare.
I'll grudgingly give you this point
Yes.. If you keep QuickTime's checkboxes off, it doesn't go around being evil to other programs, unlike RealPlayer/RealOne/M$ Media player.
Pi
Yup... looks like they accidentally left out Real.
://search.msn.com/results.asp?q=reading" ://search.msn.com/results.asp?q=ready" ://search.msn.com/results.asp?q=really"
Public Sub cmdSearch_Click(Query as String)
' (snipped for brevity - this is a pretty long sub)
else if ucase(Query) = "READING" then
WebBrowser1.Navigate "http
else if ucase(Query) = "READY" then
WebBrowser1.Navigate "http
else if ucase(Query) = "REALLY" then
WebBrowser1.Navigate "http
' (more snipped)
End Sub
I've been running WinAmp as my default audio player since IE4. I'm running IE6, and MP3's (etc.) automatically play in Winamp when I click on them.
There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
I don't see anywhere in your quote where the gentlemen acknowledges why they need to keep it off the airwaves nor do I see anything that implies that he thinks the discussion implies guilt or wrongdoing.
;)
;)
Not relevant. The question is whether it could be construed as implying guilt or wrongdoing. Microsoft will find itself increasingly in the situation of having to prove itself innocent.
Personally I'm just tired of buzz word bingo and buzz phrase bingo where the media and people take statements without qualification and read deeper more meaningful intent into them.
It will get worse
sophistry - 1 : subtly deceptive reasoning or argumentation
It's even more fun when the conclusions are accurate.
What did Microsoft do wrong today
Are these DLLs part of the OS or are they part of IE? I mean, I think that is the whole issue here. Isn't it? Microsoft has made it's web browser an integral part of the OS. In other words, if I choose to remove an application (namely MSIE) from my system, it really shouldn't remove part of the core OS along with it. For example, if I want to change the windshield wiper blades on my car, I would be very upset if the distributor cap was connected to the wipers in such a way that if I remove the wiper blades, I also remove the distributor cap. Wouldn't you be?
Some are given suckers and some get lollipops
So why is "embrace and extend" equated to "embrace and extinguish"? Because history has shown that whenever MS uses that strategy it ends up with the victim being extinguished.
And your simple explanation that that topic would get all types of conjecture etc is crap because this was not a public mailing list, it is an internal mailing list at MS that their boss reads. And your "Tom" wouldn't be working very long at MS if he usually had a negative opinion about everything.
Your entire argument reeks of illogic. I could continue but it is pointless.
t.
I'm glad that this happened - RealPlayer is accursed spyware anyway. Hopefully it'll drive down their market share and put them out of business.
this is completely off topic, but, i just recently upgraded to winamp 2.8 and it includes the .ogg plugin. it just made me happy.
On the subject of the "search" problem I think MS did fuck up by hard coding the list of search terms (it may have been for perf reasons I don't know). There should be a registry key or something of the sort that holds "rules" for what is a music file. That way Real could add to that if people wanted it. That is extra development time though and development time that mostly benifits competitors. Its not a great analogy but I don't think it should be ford's responsibility to make sure that all the connections are there and working well so that I can put a chevy engine in my truck. Windows is a unified product that is an OS as well as a number of highly integrated utilities for doing common tasks. In that way its like a whole car. They don't manufacture a chassis that you put your own stuff on top of, its more like they build a full truck that just happens to haul some extra cargo and allow add ons to do more things. I agree this is a MAJOR advertisement against MS for some people, but as far as it goes many people would like to pop in 1 cd (or soon dvd) for windows and know that when it installs they will be able to do almost anything that they want to with no further installs. And knowing that if you install a game or two or a music player on top of that it will work is also required.
As far as the "in browser" playing of the files, so long as you remember to say no to that feature your user preference is retained (at least mine was). If you say yes when it asks if you want to play the music "in browser" then you are saying yes I want to use WMP.
What I see is a fight between choice and a unified look and feel for everyone. If you allow choice you blow that unified look and feel all to hell. Personally I don't give a rats behind what program plays my music from the browser as long as it does it well and it doesn't stop me from using a different player to play music outside the browser.
"You can now flame me, I am full of love,"
Hopefully, as Moz and XFree86 mature, as well as GNOME and KDE, component sharing will become only more prevalent.
Do they think all their users are morons?
Do they think that they can treat people like shit for years and years and have NOBODY wise up?
Do they think we're all going to put up with this unrepentant behavior without ever exacting retribution?
Wanna see what happend when you push Americans to far? Look at Afghanistan. The Soviets couldn't do in ten years what the Yanks did in a few months.
Mr Gates' you're pushing our buttons the wrong way.
If I owned any stock, I'd seriously think about letting Bill Gate's have it ALL back. (100% of doodly squat is still doodly squat.)
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Actually to say that "I did not have sex." when referring to a blow job is accurate. To say "I did not have sexual relations" when referring to a blow job would be the innacurate statement (I won't go into defining 'is' that's truly moronic). The definition of sex is tied to penetration and the act of copulation usually for reproduction. Sexual intercourse can be seen as sex and can include acts like a blow job. But when you lump all things sexual into sex you lose some of the meaning of sex. Masterbation isn't sex it might be a sexual act but it's not sex. Masterbation, cunnilingus, fellatio, etc. could be considered sexual acts or acts of a sexual nature, but cannot be considered 'sex'. Therefore it's your argument that fails.
Extinguish also means to dim, nullify, or to reduce to silence or ineffectiveness. Lovely throwing in the Nazis in all this. Makes a nice little comparison MS == Nazis. It's the comparison that so many MS bashers love to use.
When I'm talking about MS or anyone else "embracing and extending" I'm talking about embracing and extending a methodology, practice or standard. I'm not talking about a company or entity. In your wording you act as if MS "embracing and extending" a standard is tantamount to them walking into an office building and hacking all the workers who worked on the standard into little bitty pieces. I think you can see that MS has embraced and extended several languages, standards and ideals without the necessity of those standards bodies or creators to themselves be silenced (W3C, ECMA, ANSI, c++, etc.). I see plenty of evidence to suggest that MS did little that extinguished their "enemies" while I see plenty of evidence to suggest that the "enemies" caused a significant amount of their own downfall.
I never said that "embrace and extend" was equated to "embrace and extinguish". I stated that somewhere the phrase came up "embrace, extend, and extinguish" and I didn't know where it came from and couldn't assign to it being directly from Microsoft because I haven't seen evidence to suggest it (doesn't mean that evidence doesn't exist).
And do you actually work in any type of large business. I see e-mails getting floated all the time and hear discussions daily that have all kinds of conjecture. I've worked for several companies that this happens on a regular basis. Additionally I've worked in plenty of companies that have hired loud mouthed argumentative and opinionative employees and they seem to be the last to get fired usually because the management A) Likes the go getter attitude or B) is afraid of lawsuits and bad press. Point in fact I sit an isle away from a guy who does nothing all day but bitch about the stupid stuff his boss makes him do, complains about how his benefits are screwed up, moans about the government, and craps on his fellow employees. He hasn't been fired yet because nothing he's done is against company policy, but people avoid him like the plague and try not to bring up his "hot topic" issues within ear shot. He's annoying and could probably be written up as "disruptive" but it would be a hard fight and cause more problems than management wants to deal with.
My question is "Why are you so vehement?" at any point have I insulted someone, spoke down to, or demeaned. I'm simply stating what I see and I'm getting insults and barbed responses.
While it might rightly be said that MS has pursued "predatory" business practices and has been convicted of such, that's not what I'm arguing here. I'm arguing that you can't use one line from an e-mail without any corroberating evidence and say "See! There! I told you so, their guilty!" and that's what most people are doing. They are taking one line at a time and making up their own stories about what happened/is happening at MS without any thought for the accuracy.
"Do not be swept up in the momentum of mediocrity." - anon
You think so? 1 in five vendors, only 2 of which are in the fortune 500
What relevance does the fortune 500 have to the issue? How many of these companies even make *any* products that are at all related to computers?
I'm sure bummed that I can't use my Caterpillar video card.
MS the king of standards... nope. Better than most, yes.
A little advice, making blatantly false statements that are in fact utterly ridiculous is too obvious to make a proper troll. MS is known in the standards arena *primarily* for conciously breaking them.
I know, I know IHBT
the rest of your argument analogy etc... is pointless to respond to. Especially your comparison to the dipshit at your company, MS gets oodles of resumes and would not have to tolerate that type of behaviour. What is your company? I bet you won't say since it would prove how weak your argument was.
You are getting so much backlash because you did the same thing, you took their one line and came to the opposite conclusion which is in apparent opposition to the facts at hand.
t.
With Real I do not know since I dont use RealPlayer except on my Linux box. Come to think of it Quicktime is also run on my linux box.
Quicktime asks you to select the files you want quicktime to play when it is installed. Uncheck 2 boxes and Quicktime plays only Quicktime movies.
If you have a version of windows prior to ME, you may have to Shift + right click to get the open with option.
Our incompetent government entity, the one they call the Justice Department, needs to be severely delt with. Can't believe they want to settle with M$. Can they see that M$ has NOT changed one bit? The ONLY way to teach M$ to behave is to serve them with a punishment that teaches them NOT to continue doing this sort of thing. So far all I see is M$ thumbing its nose at the U.S. government saying "screw you".
Let the punishment fit the crime. If I hear another god damn "settlement" proposal from the government I'm gonna go crazy!
eTrade SUCKS
I'm running Win2k, and that DOES NOT WORK in IE.
FileExplorer, certainly. We are talking about IE associations, not File Explorer associations, which are ENTIRELY DIFFERENT.
Geez....
Gates is America! Because as we all remember from history class: "the busines of America is big business". And yes, America is the best at everything. But "everything" is mainly comprised of raping the land, exploiting the masses, and stamping out philosophical differences. And who am I jealous of? You? Certainly not! You're a weak-minded media dupe who's too afraid to stand by you own words, so you post them anonymously. Remember: the king of the idiots is still an idiot. All you seem to see is a king.
Some are given suckers and some get lollipops
Dude, don't you think people have TRIED that? QuickTime, RealPlayer, MusicMatch, and WinAMP all have anti-user behavior wherein they can proactively take extension ownership without user notification. It's Really Cool to remap the associations in Explorer (or even in regedit) and watch RealJukebox change them back without telling you. Lots of cool user-love coming from RealNetworks there.
My mistake, you are correct.
Saying Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.
There's another longstanding instance of this: has anyone managed to download Netscape Navigator using a Microsoft browser?
Because that's sure as hell what it seems like these days.
If you can pay more for it then the other guy, then it's all yours, plain and simple.
Audere est Facere
Anything bad for MS is evil and nasty and ought not to exist, for reasons of national security.
Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
- Boot your system.
- Change the system date to sometime in the future; 2036 should do.
- Start QT Player, ignoring the prompt.
- Exit QT Player.
- Correct your system time, perhaps using an NTP server.
Now, your QT Player will not prompt you again until 2036.my old sig used to be funny, but then slashcode ate it and now it's not funny anymore
Don't fool yourselves. Nothing is going to happen to Microsoft - they have bought and paid for this new judge who will NOT bring them to justice. It is all just a big show for the public to give the appearance that the US government is willing to protect the people against big corporations. Too many favors, to much campaign money, and too much government back scratching since they got the real judge thrown off the case.
I use the KISS formula...