Nintendo Drops GameCube Price to $150

DarkZero writes: "According to Planet Gamecube, Nintendo, as was expected, has dropped the price of the GameCube to $150. As the consoles currently stand, the GameCube is $50 cheaper than both the X-Box and the PS2, letting it retain half of its price edge on its competitors. Neither Sony nor Microsoft has commented on it yet, but Microsoft might decide to lower the price of the X-Box a little bit more in retaliation. Yay, competitive pricing!"

Comments

Wow Competition!

[tbaggy]

MS might just be totally confused! "You mean we have to lower our prices to sell stuff?"

Re:Wow Competition!

[locutus2k]

It's more like "You mean our stuff is the same price/cheaper, and people still aren't buying it???"

Micro$oft now has to deal with people who are well established in the game market. Since they don't own the market, they have to play the game (no pun intended) and produce a superior product (something they are definatly not used to)

Re:Wow Competition!

[56ker]

MS Staffer 2 : Yes.
MS Staffer 1 faints.

Yeah capitalism!

[Pacifix]

That's low enough for me! I'm off to get my GameCube. Really, that's about as much as I'm willing to pay for a non-upgradable piece of hardware that will be obsolete in a year...

Re:Yeah capitalism!

[Rick_T]

> That's low enough for me! I'm off to get my
> GameCube. Really, that's about as much as I'm
> willing to pay for a non-upgradable piece of
> hardware that will be obsolete in a year...

You mean something that's usually non-upgradable and obsolete in a year like, ohh, a video card for a PC? Some of the fancier graphics cards cost more than a console!

Unless things get *really* lousy in the console market, video game consoles have a staying power greater than a year. Even the *Dreamcast* was around longer than a year!

Consider the Playstation. There are still games being released for that old beast.

Re:Yeah capitalism!

[qurob]

Consider the Playstation. There are still games being released for that old beast.



Am I the only one not blinding by the horrible quality of the Playstation? The only benefit the thing had in it's time was the storage medium allowing tons of crap to be stuck on a CD. If Nintendo wasn't so strict with its blood/gore/mature rating crap...

Just not a big enough part of the dumbed down American public, I guess.

Re:Yeah capitalism!

[analog_line]

The Playstation 1 hardware has been "obsolete" for several years, and I still use it regularly (though the particular PS1 hardware I'm using it built into my PS2...the games are what matters).

You want to talk about obsolete within a year, PC hardware is by far the worst offender in this case. I basically biult a new 1Ghz system about a year ago, maybe a little more, and while it wasn't state of the art, it was still up there. Now it's half as powerful as what I could get now, for less than what I paid for the 1Ghz chip and motherboard back then. Nevermind the fact that there have been _2_ new top-of-the-line nVidia graphics cards released since I built this computer. Consoles are bargains in comparison.

Re:Yeah capitalism!

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you ever look at the initial price of the console compared to the cost of a few games? That's right, the console is basically a minor cost. When these companies rape you at $70CDN per game, THAT'S where you should be looking for deals.. Or modchips..

Re:Yeah capitalism!

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure there's a lot of horrible games for the PSX. That tends to happen when you have 10k games available, unlike the N64. But there are some real gems available on that console, and I'm guessing you haven't seen them. It's a decent console at a cheap price. Just because the graphics aren't as great as XBox or gamecube doesn't mean the system automatically sucks.

For some reason, people keep thinking that better graphics = more fun. It doesn't!

Re:Yeah capitalism!

[Rick_T]

> Am I the only one not blinding by the horrible
> quality of the Playstation?

Apparently, you're blinded by *something*... :)

> The only benefit the thing had in it's time was
> the storage medium allowing tons of crap to be
> stuck on a CD.

You're surely thinking of the SegaCD, which was probably the pioneer of "stick a bunch of junk on a CD-ROM and sell it". Granted, the SegaCD had a few good games (Lunar, Lunar:EB, Snatcher, etc.), but much of what was released for that system was FMV garbage.

The nice thing about the Playstation was that it had a whole lot of games that *weren't* just "shovel junk onto a CD". Ridge Racer, Tekken, Raiden Project, Namco Museum, etc. (to name a few of the earlier titles).

> If Nintendo wasn't so strict with its
> blood/gore/mature rating crap...

Ahh yes, Nintendo. Nintendo wasn't *any* competition to the Playstation {Remember - Nintendo's then-current console was the SNES) until the N64 came out - which was long after the Playstation hit critical mass. And then the N64 came, with its very limited group of expensive (compared to Playstaiton) first-run titles - of which about the only hit was Mario 64. No wonder the Playstation dominated!

Re:Yeah capitalism!

[Sivar]

Obsolete

Date: 1579
1 a : no longer in use or no longer useful

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=obsolet e

That doesn't seem to apply to the Playstation.

Re:Yeah capitalism!

[Anonymous Coward]

The fact that the video card itself is non-upgradable is hardly the point. The COMPUTER can be upgraded with a new VIDEO CARD. Try doing that with a console sometime (some uber-hacker out there may be able to, but not mere mortals).

The real obsolescence in consoles has been software. Until recently, every new generation was incapable of runnning the previous. This was stupid not only for consumers but for the companies; every generation change was an opportunity for the market shares to get re-scrambled. Of course Sony is smarter than this, and apparently even Nintendo (with the GameBoys) have figured this out.

Re:Yeah capitalism!

[blixel]

For some reason, people keep thinking that better graphics = more fun. It doesn't!

If that were *completely* true there would never have been any reason to evolve beyond text based games or the Pong machine.

Kick butt graphics don't automatically make a great game, but it goes a long way adding to the overall experience. Go play an old flight simulator with blotchy graphics and compare it to a modern flight simulator. There's no contest.

Re:Yeah capitalism!

[Hes Nikke]

thats funny, i was just playing Dr. Mario on my NES, no need for fancy graphics there, still fun to doodlyise someon! :D

sure i could have just as easly played it on my GB, GBC, GBA, SNES, or N64, but i played the original :D

Re:Yeah capitalism!

[Anonymous Coward]

Congratulations. You are among the minority.

Re:Yeah capitalism!

[Anonymous Coward]

Remember that america get games YEARS after they come out in Japan. Unless it's some megga hit.
For instance the Arc the Lad collection that just came out for the PSX.

Re:Yeah capitalism!

[Anonymous Coward]

The GameCube is a whole new ball of wax. Watch cube.ign.com from today to Saturday for the new stuff from E3. Wow! I've been very impressed so far with my GC and it holds a lot of fun in that little package. They all have their merits, but GC is my favorite right now.

Cheers,
Anonymous SkrubZero

This is perfect

[GlassUser]

I just bought a new DVD Player/Reciever and television. Now I know what game system I'm getting.

Anyone have any advice for decent games to get with this thing?

Re:This is perfect

[IAmBlakeM]

All depends on what suits your fancy.

Reviews
More reviews
Guess what?
What?
Reviews!

All good resources.

Re:This is perfect

[arglesnaf]

It may seem childish, but Super Monkey Ball is one of the best games I have ever played, and it is so simple to play that my Dad (who cannot use a web browser) was teaching my 70 year old great Aunt and Uncle to play...

Most of the games in it have two buttons. Move & Do. And the main game only has one of those. The main game plays kinda like Marble Madness, but a lot more fun.

Plus, It is funny as hell to watch drunk or stoned people play.

Re:This is perfect

[specialized_sworks]

If you don't even know what games there are for the system, how can you know what system you are going to buy? It's all in the games, man.

If price is your main criteria, I've got a nice 1st generation nintendo system you might be interested in. Or maybe this used Playstation sitting over here.

The games are the main thing you should determine the games system on.

-Dubya

Re:This is perfect

[G-funk]

Smash bros. That's all you need to know. On the surface it's a crappy game for kids, but a bunch of mates and a slab makes for a fun night on the nintendo.

Re:This is perfect

[Brad Wilson]

There are a lot of great games out for the GameCube. I would recommend Super Smash Brothers Melee, Luigi's Mansion, Pikmin, and Super Monkey Ball. All great fun. :)

Re:This is perfect

[GlassUser]

I already have both of them, thank you. :)

[I have to type something here because the lameness filter is stupid]

Re:This is perfect

[kesuki]

you forgot my favorite resource gamefaqs. the top ten message boards almost always has at least three of the 'must have' games for any console.
to save people some time though:
1. Resident Evil
2. Super Smash Bros. Melee
3. WWE Wrestlemania X8
4. Star Wars: Rogue Leader- Rogue Squadron 2
5. Sonic Adventure 2 Battle
6. Legend of Zelda
7. Phantasy Star Online Episode I & II
8. Mario Sunshine
9. Spider-Man: The Movie
10. Bloody Roar: Primal Fury

GameCube has some good titles, and unlike the dreamcast there isn't a chance in hell that the Big N will drop development, anytime soon.
Although if the PS2 is $199 as the article implies, it's better short term, as many good GC games won't be hitting shelves until christmas.
Besides, they've finally got a good modchip (daughter-card) for the PS2 v5 or v6 boards here

Re:This is perfect

[MagPulse]

SSBM is awesome if you have friends and enough controllers.

Re:This is perfect

[Anonymous Coward]

I currently own:

1. Super Monkey Ball
2. SSX Tricky
3. Super Smash Brothers
4. Rogue Leader
5. Resident Evil

What I currently need to get:

1. Pikmin
2. Spider-Man
3. Luigi's Mansion

I think that is probably the cream of the crop when it comes to the GameCube games. (I already have my sports games on the Dreamcast, and while WaveRace has some freaking *amazing* looking water effects at times, I wasn't too fond of the gameplay) A lot of the game choice comes from personal preference, but I think everyone should at least own Monkey Ball, Rogue Leader, and Resident Evil, with Pikmin, SSX Tricky, and Spider-Man coming in a close second. Smash Brothers, while great, tends to be more of a party game, and Luigi's Mansion was a fun rent, but not on top of my to-get list right away.

By the way, read (as little as possibly in the spoiler department, at least) about Eternal Darkness, which comes out next month. Hopefully, it will turn out to be a AAA title as well.

Re:This is perfect

[Chris Burke]

Just to recommend one the others didn't mention: Waverace is a great game. It looks incredibly great (wait till you see it raining, with shimmering reflections of the surroundings and the refraction of the bottom of the lakes), and is a lot of fun.

Holy cow!

[ZaMoose]

Man, as Tycho of Penny Arcade put it, "It's on. This is that Clash of the Titans s**t."

I had a friend

[alen]

who would only buy a console when it dropped to $99 and came with a game. Personally I don't think this competition will be long lived. Microsoft and Sony will use their cash to push Nintendo out of the hardware market. This is what MS is classic at. Using it's size and resources to simply wait out until the competitors leave the market because they run out of resources. In a few years it will only be Sony and MS in the console market.

Re:I had a friend

[fizz-beyond]

What you don't realise, nintendo has a nice chunk of change stored up as well... seeing as they own Pokemon which is what helped them through the N64, and they have been making money from their Cubes since day 1. Nintendo isn't going to be pushed out of the hardware market any time soon.

Re:I had a friend

[MindStalker]

I'm about the same way. Personally I don't expect them to make it any cheaper than 150, BUT if they included an extra controller (how many comes with it now?) maybe some memory, and a game. I'd be all over it at 150.

Re:I had a friend

[macshit]

Microsoft and Sony will use their cash to push Nintendo out of the hardware market.

It's not quite that easy -- Nintendo also has tons of cash, because of the success of the GB/GBA; they're actually quite good at making money, even if they lag a bit in the hype department. Microsoft could probably do it if they bled money like mad for a long time, but I'm not sure even MS is that crazy.

All the players in this war are strong, and I think they're all in it for the long haul. And remember, Nintendo, unlike MS & Sony, doesn't do anything else except games -- they can't afford to lose.

Re:I had a friend

[MrFredBloggs]

Nintendo can sell the cube at a profit forever. MS may have to always lose money selling. So Nintendo may not -ever- be the best selling console maker, but they`ll be making more out of each console, and will be able to develop future consoles. How long will MS be happy to sell at a loss? Perhaps the Xbox 2 will be not quite as good as its competitors, but will make MS a lot more money?

Re:I had a friend

[gamgee5273]

Funny...Nintendo owns its market, homes..and kids aren't going anywhere. I have a GC and a GBA and play them regularly. I might buy a PS2 soon, but the Xbox would have to seriously come down in price for me to be interested (there just aren't enough games I'm interested in for it).

Nintendo's in the hardware market for good - they know the rules (hell, they made the rules). Microsoft is the one in trouble - they're losing major cash at $199 - another price cut would make the Xbox a major drain. Add that to the fact that there aren't any really stellar Xbox games other than Halo and you've got a next-gen Dreamcast wannabe...

Re:I had a friend

[jcoleman]

Let's not forget that Nintendo is also quite good at making GAMES, which is the whole point of this business. Who cares which hardware is better, which system has the best GAMES?

M$: Halo. I dare you to pick another exclusive X-Box must-have currently on the shelf.

Sony: GTA3, Maximo (maybe), Metal Gear Solid 2. I'm not much of a PS fan, so it's hard to say what's good out there right now.

Nintendo: Star Wars: Rogue Leader, Wave Race, and let's not discount Mario, Zelda, and Metroid which are all on the schedule. Of course there's also Pokemon (for the kiddies), the Sega exclusives (ie: Sonic), and then the Rare games...I could go on and on.

You get the point. Nintendo is never going to lose. They have a core market which will keep them in business for a long time. Not to mention the European launch: 400,000 units sold through in 3 weeks. Wow.

Re:I had a friend

[White Shade]

wait wait wait .. this is slashdot... what's this "Friend" thing to which you refer? I thought we were all reclusive nerds here ...

oh well.. theres nothing like a bad joke to cheer you up in the morning...

Re:I had a friend

[magicsquid]

According to Yahoo News Nintendo is doing better than ever.

Nintendo, the big maker of video game consoles, said that it expected to earn a record profit for the second consecutive year, thanks to a weaker yen. Nintendo raised its profit forecast 38 percent, to 110 billion yen ($833 million), for the year ended March 31. Ken Belson (NYT)

I can't see Nintendo getting out of the hardware market as long as they have a monopoly on the handheld market. Nintendo is in the position where they can use the GameBoy Advance to subsidize the GameCube if they have to. I don't think they'll end up doing that however. Take a look at the Famitsu Top 10 Most Wanted (for Japan.)

1. Final Fantasy XI - Square, PS2
2. Star Ocean 3 (tentative) - Enix, PS2
3. Biohazard 0 - Capcom, GCN
4. Super Mario Sunshine - Nintendo, GCN
5. Legend of Zelda GC (tentative) - Nintendo, GCN
6. Biohazard 4 - Capcom, GCN
7. Tales of Destiny 2 - Namco, PS2
8. Kamaitachi no Yoru 2 - Chun Soft, PS2
9. Sakura Wars Series - Sega, PS2
10. Popolocrois: First Adventure - SCE, PS2

4 of the top 6 are for the GameCube. Nintendo won't have any trouble keeping up in the console war.

Re:I had a friend

[Rydia]

Actually, look at the figures. Sony makes a loss on every PS2 sold. MS takes a MASSIVE loss on every XBox sold. Out of all the console makers, only Nintendo makes a profit on the actual hardware. Sure, you say, but the money is all in software! And then you remember Sony and MS rely completely on third parties, making less money off licensing than Nintendo with their first and second parties.

Re:I had a friend

[areiosoltani]

QUOTE: You get the point. Nintendo is never going to lose. They have a core market which will keep them in business for a long time. Not to mention the European launch: 400,000 units sold through in 3 weeks. Wow.

there is only one rule in this business---never say never.

Re:I had a friend

[Batou]

Others here have already pointed out the HUGE cash pile Nintendo is sitting atop, so I won't elaborate on that. (Not quite the size of M$'s cash reserves, but still...)

One thing I think is worth pointing out is that Nintendo has consistently been in the black since Yamauchi-san took control of the company way back when (can't remember the year, but it's been a pretty long time). This is huge and can't possibly be overstated - never, not even once, hsa Nintendo operated at a loss. This is almost unprecedented in the history of business, much less the fickle games market.

Sorry, but Nintendo isn't going anywhere. They've arguably got more of a niche appeal these days, but no one is pushing Nintendo out of the hardware market in this decade, not even the mighty (and I use that term loosely) Micro$oft. I'd even wager just the opposite is much more likely.

Re:I had a friend

[Orblivion]

Funny, I just bought a PS2 last night, one of my friends came over and told me I should have gotten a GameCube. I responded by, saying they'll drop the price in a couple of weeks to compete with the Xbox and PS2 price drops.

Next thing I know he wanted to bet $50 bucks on whether Nintendo would drop their price. I should have taken that bet. Could have used the money to pay for 1/3 of it. Just a few more days till payday....

Re:I had a friend

[Glytch]

Let's not forget that Nintendo is also quite good at making GAMES, which is the whole point of this business. Who cares which hardware is better, which system has the best GAMES?

Exactly! Give the man a goddamn prize!

I've got a coworker who's got an Xbox, and keeps telling me about the specifications of the thing. I keep asking him, "So what games can I get on it now?"

"Get Halo!"

"And?"

"And... NHL 2002?"

I'll probably get a PS2 first (DVD and games together, so I can finally ditch Windows), but the Cube is cheap enough that I could probably get both now. Super Smash Brothers rocks my world.

And on a side note, I always thought it would be a cold day in hell when a Sonic game was available on a Nintendo system. I'm starting to feel my age. :)

Re:I had a friend

[Hnice]

Right on --

I have a PS2, cause, you know, final fantasy, but when it came time to decide whether to get a box or a cube, i looked things up and down, and the fact of the matter is, i *will* play zelda, and i *will* play mario. Call me a fanboy, or just call me a guy who loves quality games, but the fact is that N's franchises guarantee it a spot at the table. Crappy release schedules and the occasional feeling that nintendo thinks i'm 12 years old aside, there will always be three or four games a year that i absolutely *must* play which are nintendo exclusives.

As for MS, there's halo, and....halo. And since i finished that, it's only good for multiplayer, in which case MS has sold one box to four guys. That's a lousy model.

Add to that the fact that parents know it and love it, and in many households, they're buying the games, and nintendo's not getting forced out by anyone.

Re:I had a friend

[RadioheadKid]

Microsoft and Sony will use their cash to push Nintendo out of the hardware market.

From CNET Article: "Nintendo, which launched GameCube last November, has shipped more than 4.5 million systems worldwide."

Oh yeah they're gonna get pushed right out with numbers like that! And don't forget, as others have said, Nintendo has Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, and Gameboy. They ain't goin' nowhere!

Re:I had a friend

[DarkZero]

Nintendo can sell the cube at a profit forever.

Actually, Nintendo was losing money on each GameCube sale when it was at $200. With no new manufacturing changes and a new price drop, they are now losing at least $60-$80 on each GameCube sale, if not much more.

Nintendo is selling a console at a loss for the first time. The only one that's actually making money on each console sale is Sony, because they make their own hardware instead of buying parts from third parties.

Re:I had a friend

[Jaysyn]

LOL, for a moment I thought you we're serious...

Oh, you were...

Jaysyn

Re:I had a friend

[egomaniac]

You're mixing it up with the Xbox.

At about $149, Nintendo will roughly break even on sales of each GameCube, Harrison said. The company has kept manufacturing costs lower by not offering an installed DVD player on the GameCube like its rival consoles

Source

Nintendo has never lost money on the Cube. MS was estimated to be losing $60-$80 per system at launch -- it's anybody's guess how much they are losing now, with (presumably) reduced manufacturing cost fighting against a $100 price drop.

And, while I don't have figures for Sony, I believe you're mistaken about them as well. They were certainly losing money on the PS2 at launch time, they may well be again after the $100 drop.

Re:I had a friend

[Sivar]

That is a foolish statement if I ever heard one.

Nintendo has been in business longer than Sony and Microsoft combined, started in 1889
Nintendo has two painfully profitable cards in it's hand, Poke'mon and the Game Boy series. The gameboy, by the way, is the best selling console in history, and the GBA's compatibility with the Gamecube along with it's excellent hardware and large set of successful games from the SNES ready to be ported in addition to new games isn't going to hurt it any.

Then consider their other franchises. Mario, Zelda, Metroid, etc. These are some of the most profitable franchises of ANY company, and for good reason. Anyone who contests the creative genius that has gone into any in those series is a bitter, blind fan of mindless action games. Even if you didn't like, say, Mario64, you have to admit that it had easily some of the most creative web design ever to exist, even today.

It was said during the peak of the Sega Genesis that Sega would take over the market and Nintendo would die. Now Sega is Nintendo's bitch making games for their former competitor's consoles.

Even the Playstation, Sony's ultra successful system, was a spawn of Nintendo as it is based on the SNES CD-ROM drive that Nintendo never released after they saw how useless it was for Sega.
Don't count them out because of their lack of hype. Hype costs money, and while Sony and MS are quietly spending millions in a war, Nintendo is in the background raking in the dough.

Re:I had a friend

[ZaMoose]

"Numbers like that".

Hmmm. Seems to me that I remember the Dreamcast selling nearly 8 million consoles in the Western hemisphere and look at where Sega is now!

Oh, wait...

Re:I had a friend

[ZaMoose]

Not to mention the fact that the GBA will play all existing Gameboy Games.

Re:I had a friend

[DarkZero]

Well, that's a new one on me, because Peter Main, Nintendo's Vice President of Marketing and Sales, admitted last year that "We expect to incur a small loss on the GameCube hardware initially, and you're right that it hasn't been our habit in the past but we expect it to turn okay early next year." The year isn't even half over and the GameCube is already slashing its price by one fourth, which I would estimate is the profit margin. So it seems that Mr. Harrison, a Nintendo "marketing executive" (his position is not stated) is claiming that Nintendo learned over the course of the last few months how to make their manufacturing process roughly 20-25% more efficient than they expected they would be at this time, putting their improved efficiency since November at about 35-40%. That's quite a claim, especially for someone that also claims that Nintendo had been planning a price cut all along and that they were apparently just lying when they said that they had no plans to do so roughly a week ago.

Also, Acts of Gord has a pretty good explanation of why the PS2 is actually profiting from its sales. The math works out, but what really sells it is the simple explanation that Sony is a hardware company, rather than a video game company that's buying off-the-shelf or proprietary parts from third party vendors. Hardware costs much, much less when you make it yourself.

Re:I had a friend

[Anonymous Coward]

What are you a fucking idiot? What the fuck are you thinking posting on Slashdot like that. It's OK man, I might have lost the bet but I still fucked your girlfriend last night.

Re:I had a friend

[rodac]

Well, myself I plan to buy several consoles in a few months time. All of them are going to be XBox.

Hopefully within 6 months.

I am totally convinced the product will be dead shortly and prices will plummet. Say a few XBoxen for 25$ a pop? Well, sing me up for 10 of them.
If need be ill replace the HD in them and run Linux on them. I dont care about substandard nVidia cheapo stuff in them, Ill be happy if i can just telnet to them. With some creative soldering Im sure i can get another nic in it,
run linux on it with iptables and use them as packetfilters.

But the box is already dead, MS have already said so (but not in clear text, only in code-speak):

Earlier today I saw this statement some MS drone had given to some paper, that MS was FULLY comitted to XBox, that they would invest further 2Bn over the next few years. That they had a LONG TIME commitment to XBox. That they had FULL confidence that the XBox would be a major hit. etc etc.

This reminds me of when political leaders speak of "I, as leader, have FULL confidence in minister X. bla bla blah" which bable will translate for yo to real-speak : "Minister X fucked up. Hes gonna get fired so fast he wont know what hit him. Ill amke sure hes never gonna work, ever, for anyone again."

Fully committed, Full support, Long term committment, my ass. This is the kiss of death that proves that the box has already died.

Normal and successful console vendors never need to go out and tell everyone, hear hear, we are not gonna cancel it, hear hear.

Re:I had a friend

[hkmwbz]

Not only do they have the most popular gaming system ever (GameBoy) and its successor, the GBA, they make a lot of money because they develop and sell their own games.

While third-party companies have to pay royalties to Nintendo (I assume that this is so, even for the GameCube), Nintendo take in all the money for their own games.

So:

• Nintendo make money for each GameCube sold
• Nintendo have the handheld gaming market in their pockets, making plenty of money there
• Nintendo themselves produce excellent games that sell very well and are very popular - and get all the money from this

Nintendo are innovators, both when it comes to games and hardware (their controllers have always been original, and have been copied by others), and are definitely here to stay. It would be a shame to see them go as well.

And they have Shigeru Miyamoto.

Re:I had a friend

[PK_ERTW]

You say Nintendo has 4 of the top 6. Woop-de-fucking-doo. I say PS2 has "2 of the top 3", or maybe even "6 of the top 10, including the top 2 spots."

I am a Nofriendo fan myself, but come on, at least show us a list that puts Nintendo in a better light than it's competitors if you are gonna blow their horn for them.

PK
"Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket?"

Bad news

[Anonymous Coward]

This could really hurt Microsoft's Xbox if they are forced to price their console too low. It could even possibly result in killing it. These kinds of evil capitalistic tactics on the part of Sony and Nintendo need to be looked into by the DOJ. I for one will be holding back on my console purchase until I see who gets shaken out. I wouldn't want to end up with another Dreamcast fiasco on my hands with Microsoft's Xbox.

Re:Bad news

[MindStalker]

This market is for a entertainment product. Very very few people would ever have to buy a game console (game mag reviewers would be the exception if they didn't already get them free)
The only time the government has ever stepped in is for essential services. Gas, telephone, Buisness computing.

Re:Bad news

[nelsonal]

Two of the early anti trust successes were American Tabacco and Great A &P Tea company (Grocery Stores).

Re:Bad news

[MindStalker]

I've never heard of this, but at the time, I'm sure tabacco was considered an essential service. As Grocery stores still are.

Oh, yeah. Great.

[00_NOP]

Like the "free" copy of Windows you get with a PC.

Price cuts in this market are designed to drive out producers and so retain somebody's monopoly.

Sega used to be a big console maker and they got done in just this way.

Still, you can always run Linux on your Dreamcast.

Re:Oh, yeah. Great.

[Tsu-na-mi]

> Sega used to be a big console maker and they got done in just this way.

In all generosity, SEGA failed largely on their own. SEGA rose to ascendancy with the Genesis, but since then, they have made mistake after mistake. Sega CD with too many movie-game titles, the abandonware 32X that cost more than a genesis. The Saturn, which was a decent system. Its strengths were in 2D, but the bulk of the 2D games were Japan-only. PSX dominated that generation. Then the Dreamcast, which failed to fly out the door immediately, and was later killed outright by PS2 hype.

A Fine Example

[TheNecromancer]

This is how capitalism should work! Competitive pricing is great for all involved: the consumer gets the best possible deal for the product, while the manufacturer is rewarded with high sales for their product. It also encourages companies to create products that satisfy the consumer's needs(aka - what the buyer wants).

Way to go!

Re:A Fine Example

[MagPulse]

Well, this is the consumer side of the cycle. Now we have three serious competitors that wanted to sell $300+ consoles, but demand brought them down to under $200. If prices go too low, a competitor or two might drop out or get pushed out of the race, leaving one or two left to raise prices again.

Re:A Fine Example

[karnal]

To be honest, though... have you ever seen a console "raise" in price? I don't think I have. I would think that consumers at that point would balk at the idea of buying a piece of electronics at a much higher than previously discounted price... especially since the consoles are everywhere now.

Now, gasoline on the other hand.. don't get me started there.

Re:A Fine Example

[MagPulse]

I meant the next generation would be able to stay at higher prices.

Re:A Fine Example

[Paul Komarek]

Like most glorifications of any economy or economic event, I believe your post oversimplifies the situtation. Because the companies aren't starting from equal financial positions, they aren't competing on a level playing field. As an example, consider how much of a loss Microsoft could sustain now in order to put a competitor out of business. The reward is so large that they might decided they're able to take the risk of draining their bank account to prevent consumers from buying what they want (because they won't have any choices) in the long term.

Note that I don't necessarily believe this example, as Microsoft is a fairly careful business and going with Nintendo and Sony simultaneously would be foolhardy.

-Paul Komarek

Re:A Fine Example

[Kashif Shaikh]

This is how capitalism should work!

Thank you Microsoft for the first time in 15 years! Though I hate you, I love the .net effect of making the Gamecube and PS2 cheaper! *kiss* *kiss*

Now...which system to buy...eenee-meenee-miney-mo...will-i-pick-gc-or-wi ll-i-pick-ps2?

Re:A Fine Example

[Babbster]

Yes, yes. We all know that Microsoft has a ton of cash. They also have the "most powerful" console out there, and to boot it's supposed to be the easiest to develop for. Given these two conditions, one would think that Microsoft would have the best games, wouldn't one?

Even granting that there are a few more fun games than HALO, which one has gotten any buzz whatsoever? With all that cash, why isn't Microsoft owning my eyeballs with commercials touting the exclusive properties they have that can compete with the PS2 (and the best games, in quantity, on the market).

Here's what I think it's going to come down to, at least in this generation of consoles. Sony got the big advantage by releasing an excellent system a year earlier than their two major competitors. Nintendo could afford to wait that extra year (presumably to make their hardware better and allow their game developers time to come up with some great stuff; see Pikmin, Super Monkey Ball, SS Bros. and Rogue Leader) because of their excellent brand name, getting young 'uns with Pokemon and getting older folks with Mario and Zelda (and their reputation going back to the Kong). Microsoft is, inevitably, sucking hind teat because they were a year later than the PS2, they don't have any real brand recognition in the console field AND they have the baggage of a poor public image because of their illegal business practices and, to a lesser extent, their repeated failures in home electronics (see WebTV and UltimateTV).

If Microsoft drops their price anymore, I think it will send the wrong signal to consumers. It would smack of desperation and could indicate that the console is already on its way to Dreamcastville.

For me, I just don't trust that anything so compelling or interesting is going to come out anytime soon that will make me want an X-Box. I've already got PS2 (and will pick up a GameCube tomorrow). If X-Box was bringing more to my living room than tech specs, they might sell a few more of the things.

-Aaron

Re:A Fine Example

[Paul Komarek]

Agreed. I especially like your phrase "Microsoft is, inevitably, sucking hind teat". =-)

-Paul Komarek

Re:A Fine Example

[Anonymous Coward]

How on earth is this +5 insightful? Whoopee, somebody knows how capitalism works. Well, I guess with all the IP stuff that's going on, at least it's something...

What about games?

[Iber]

All this "console war" is great, but still can't afford 60+ for a game that's going to last me less than a week.

Re:What about games?

[tomstdenis]

Here's the trick.

Get a GBA and then head to www.lik-sang.com and get flash cart/linker set.

Hmm, piracy...

Actually I put PocketNES on my GBA since its way more fun than have of the clone stupid side scroller GBA games.

Tom

Re:What about games?

[joshsisk]

There is this place called Blockbuster- maybe you've heard of it...?

Re:What about games?

[mark_lybarger]

blockbuster? what? this is certainly the wrong crowd to be sending to that company. they hold way too much market share on the movie/video rental industry. better recommend a good mom-n-pop type store, though it had better be right next to a starbucks, can't live w/o the latte ;).

is there a dvdovernight.com type company that's doing video game rentals via internet/usps?

Re:What about games?

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think Blockbuster operates in Europe, and the guy did gripe about spending 60 Euros, not $60. But you're right, the guy should rent 'em.

Or buy 'em used. Just watch out for scratched discs.

Re:What about games?

[wackybrit]

Blockbuster has been operating in Europe for a long time, at least in the UK. There's not one to every town, but there are a few hundred outlets, AFAIK. 'Choices' are also another video rental store that rents games.

Re:What about games?

[Chemical]

is there a dvdovernight.com type company that's doing video game rentals via internet/usps?

Yes, there is actually. It's call RedOctane and it is, like you said, a DVD Overnight/Netflix service for video games. Only $18.95 a month too. Pretty slick.

As for your comments about Blockbuster, I totally agree that they suck, but not so much because they are a huge evil conglomorate. It's because they have the crappiest selection of movies ever; especially DVDs. I can never, ever find anything except new releases and popular/trendy movies. Their stores may be large and clean (usually), but a dirty little hole in the wall video place typically has 10 times the selection Blockbuster has. Also Blockbuster is a huge advocate of censorship.

Re:What about games?

[Paersona]

This has been a test of the Underutilized Character System. If this had been an actual emergency, you would have seen a big rectagle in place of the Euro sign.

Re:What about games?

[symbolic]

Less than a week? Sheesh...you're just playing it wrong. I've had Zelda Ocarina of Time on my N-64 for about a year and a half, and I'm still not finished with it. : )

Re:What about games?

[hymie3]

All this "console war" is great, but still can't afford 60 + for a game that's going to last me less than a week.
Dude, if you had to trade in sixty copies of quake two to get one copy of Halo, you're getting gyped.

That's Nintendo's advantage

[IAmBlakeM]

By going with a more integrated system, cutting back on peripherals and having a less powerful system than Microsoft chose, I'm actually suprised that it took Nintendo this long to cut their prices.

Playstation 2 has the software edge(more titles out for it than anything right now), XBox has the hardware edge, and Nintendo has a price advantage. With a weaker console(hardware wise) and less titles, the price war is how Nintendo will stay competitive.

Re:That's Nintendo's advantage

[Anonymous Coward]

"Playstation 2 has the software edge(more titles out for it than anything right now), XBox has the hardware edge, and Nintendo has a price advantage. With a weaker console(hardware wise) and less titles, the price war is how Nintendo will stay competitive. "

The original GB proves this, as it celebrated a tenth aniversary, had a remake, and now lives on in emulation on the GBA.

Re:That's Nintendo's advantage

[Anonymous Coward]

sorry to burst your bubble but Gamecube outperforms PS2, fYI

Can I say "I Told You So?"

[BenJeremy]

For those who claimed I was daft in the PS2 Price Drop thread, I stated that Nintendo would need to drop their price in order to remain competitive.

It seems Nintendo agreed with that statement.

It's nice to see them stop making the same mistakes of the past. Still, I wish they had brought out a version of the GameCube more like the Panasonic 'full DVD' version.

Re:Can I say "I Told You So?"

[Anonymous Coward]

For those who claimed I was daft in the PS2 Price Drop thread, I stated that Nintendo would need to drop their price in order to remain competitive.

It seems Nintendo agreed with that statement.


Yep. The Execs at Nintendo were sitting around reading Slashdot and came across your post and said to themselves, "Holy Shit! Ben Jeremy is right! We have to cut our prices right away, our we won't be competitive! Wow, it's good thing Ben posted that, or we might have went out of business!"

Retard.

Re:Can I say "I Told You So?"

[BenJeremy]

Hmmm... someone is having difficulty parsing the English language today, eh?

I wasn't implying they 'took my advice', only that Nintendo's conclusions agreed with mine, even though some posters here vehemently objected to them, when I made them.

Perhaps you should spend a bit more time paying attention in your special ed classes, particulary those English lessons.

Huh?

[InnereNacht]

"Microsoft might decide to lower the price of the X-Box a little bit more in retaliation. Yay, competitive pricing!"

I have to admit that I highly doubt it... I'm sure microsoft set their current price-drop in line with expecting Nintendo to drop theirs to their current mark.

As far as I know, Gamecube can't play DVD's either, correct? That's an awesome value-added feature. I was on the verge of buying a DVD player myself as well, but ended up just picking up a playstation 2 and killing 2 birds with one stone.

X-Box plays DVD's as well, right? I think the $50 difference is reasonable.

Re:Huh?

[Betaman]

Of course to play DVDs on the xbox you need to buy extra hardware ($30 or so) which makes it a $80 difference.

I would personaly buy a stand alone DVD player rather than a console for DVD playing. The players offer easier hookup, and don't require the purchase of a remote control, and they very cheap. I have a PS2 and would really dislike using it for my main DVD player. Just my 2cents.

Re:Huh?

[Xenex]

You then have to pay for a remote control to use the Xbox to play DVDs, because Microsoft crippled the hardware not to play DVDs unless you own the remote.

Used it to avoid DVD licensing costs, because a company like them couldn't afford to pay it. How quaint.

Re:Huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure, you have to buy the $30 remote to use the XBox DVD drive but on the other hand, you are saved from having to buy a $30 memory card which is pretty much forced upon you for PS2 and CG.

Re:Huh?

[InnereNacht]

I'm not touting the X-Box, was just not sure if it had DVD support or not.. My PS2 supports DVD playback out of the box, but you can get a remote for ~$20 US. I personally think it was the best buy out of the bunch, but then, I'm a big fan of Squaresoft games too.

But I do recall hearing that Square might be licensing to NGC again sometime soon (or vice-versa), so we'll see. :)

Thanks for the info, didn't know you needed hardware additions on the X-Box for DVD playback!

Re:Huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

>> Used it to avoid DVD licensing costs, because >> a company like them couldn't afford to pay it. >> How quaint.

It isn't that they don't want to pay it..they just didn't want to pass it on in the price of the console. Most XBox purchasers appreciate this, as they already have a DVD player in the form of a PS2 or console player. Sure - You could say MS should have gone the extra inch and included it, but then to be fair you have to complain about Sony not including HD and broadband. An extra $30 for a complete system or an extra $150-$200 for a complete system? Hmmmm...

Re:Huh?

[Boone^]

It was a quick place to save money since most people won't use it as a DVD player anyway.

Re:Huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

You can buy a DVD/CD/CD-R/CD-RW/MP3 player with remote for $60 from Best Buy, and not tie up the
game machine with movies (or vice-versa). The GC much easier to move ...

Re:Huh?

[fz00]

if someone cracks dvd playing by creating a mod chip or a boot disk, isn't microsoft screwed? i would think that they'd be forced to pay licensing for all xboxes since they would potentially be able to play dvds.

Re:Huh?

[karnal]

I decided about 2 years ago to purchase a new receiver and DVD player, even though I was holding on to the hope that was PS2, to play DVD's.

Now I'm kinda glad I bought the stand-alone DVD player. Why?

The PS2's fans are LOUD. OK, they're not bone-jarringly loud, and I'm sure I could learn to ignore them, but there's nothing like having a full dolby digital + subwoofer set-up in your basement, and being able to hear a pin drop... With the PS2 as a DVD player (my roomie's used it before as such), there's just too much noise....

Re:Huh?

[analog_line]

You can't play DVDs on the Xbox without buying a seperate DVD remote. At least you can't buy it without likely invalidating your warranty or violating the DMCA or some such thing. I'm not an Xbox follower and haven't been following any of the mod sites, so there may be a homebrewed method of getting the DVD functionality to work.

Re:Huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

True. Still, charging $300+ for a fucking word processor is a bit excessive.

Re:Huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, for the record, the Gamecube memory cards start at $14.99 for N-brand, and about $8 for the off-brand ones. They are smaller, although the largest ("16X!" or whatever it is) is comparably priced to the PS2/XBox's.

Besides, doesn't everyone just fill their XBox hard drives with ripped CD's anyway?

Re:Huh?

[jeffehobbs]

Bullshit. It could have played DVDs without a remote, by just using the controller as a makeshift remote -- like the PS2 does. No, it's been crippled...

~jeff

Re:Huh?

[Boone^]

Yes, but MS would have had to swallow the DVD licensing fee instead of 'hiding' it in the cost of the remote.

Re:Huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Just wait until the GameCube starts showing up in home quality DVD players, phillips is releasing one this year. Ninetendo has been licensing the GC tech to home electronic companies since before its release.

Re:Huh?

[jeffehobbs]

Ok, good point, I hadn't thought of that.

Re:Huh?

[cybrthng]

"Bullshit. It could have played DVDs without a remote, by just using the controller as a makeshift remote -- like the PS2 does. No, it's been crippled...

HAHAHAHAHAHA your purty darn funny.

Last time i checked your PEE ESS TEEWWWW doesn't support HDTV and uses an emulated Dolby Digital and also doesn't have a broadband connector built in or a hard drive to save 50,000+ save games on.

You also only have 2 controller ports. Any gamer knows 2 controller ports is for pussies.

lesse, you have to buy an external harddrive, an external modem or ethernet adaptor, an external port replicator and oh geez, buy then that slow cpu won't be able to keep up..

whos screwed now?

Re:Huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

You appear to be an Xbox fanboy.

You may want to watch that, it's somewhat embarassing to see.

Must be a strange feeling....

[Anonymous Coward]

...for Microsoft to actually have to play by the rules. Maybe this will give them some insight as to how the world economy really is outside their scope of vision and influence.

How will MS handle themselves?

[pstreck]

How is MS ever going to figure this one out? Actually having to lower prices, and be competitive. I mean, cmon youre just sposed to buy it cause it's what everyone else is doing. Isn't that the theory behind Windows?

The irony of it all...

[cOdEgUru]

Now Microsoft is findint itself in an arena of competitive behaviour. I wonder whether they would end up suing Sony and Nintendo on agressive business tactics :)

Maybe I wont live that long

Microsoft should give XBox for free

[fabiolrs]

They are already losing lots of money selling xbox the price it is today, why dont MS give theyre xbox away for free? :))

Re:Microsoft should give XBox for free

[CoolVibe]

They could... You'd get a free console, but you'd have to shell out on the games or licenses to use games (or whatever hare-brained scheme they think of)

Or maybe they could like integrate one game into it which looks visually pleasing, but gets boring within three minutes of play. Out of sheer frustration, people will buy games.

I hope such a thing will not happen. It's a good thing those consoles are a bit too expensive to just give away.

Re:Microsoft should give XBox for free

[Anonymous Coward]

How about getting the Xbox and 5 games for free if you sign up for 2 years of MSN dialup or the Xbox online gaming network (whatever that will be) at $23.95/month?

Re:Microsoft should give XBox for free

[fabiolrs]

OR they could give it away for free and fill the console with demos and sharewares of EVERY game created for it! :))

Re:Microsoft should give XBox for free

[CoolVibe]

Urgh... You got me beat :)

aaaaaaaggggghhh...

*gurgle*

Re:Microsoft should give XBox for free

[CHUD-Wretch]

They are already doing this at Best Buy!

I had to forcibly drag my friend away from the display....

"Free X-Box or PS2 with a 2-year hitch to MSN @ $23/month"
But of coarse it's best buy, so the ad went something like this...

XBox PS2 - FREE
Extra controler - $25
Mem Card - $20
DVD Remote $20
Replacement service plan - $20 (bastards)

The system was free but they made it sound like you were getting a deal by buying all of the accessories too....all accessories....including the worthless replacement plan.

(anyone who had the very first release of Playstation will know about the "other" product replacement plan....)

Re:Microsoft should give XBox for free

[orkysoft]

That would mean they'd lose money for each XBox given away, at no cost to the buyer, so anyone with a grudge against Microsoft could fill his home with the things, costing Micrsoft a LOT of money.

Hmm... idea? >:->

Re:Microsoft should give XBox for free

[Dephex Twin]

That would be predatory pricing and it would be considered an illegal anti-competitive practice. Of course they made Internet Explorer free, and look how that turned out.

mark

Re:Microsoft should give XBox for free

[pohl]

You'd get a free console, but you'd have to shell out on the games

Alternatively, you'd get a free linux firewall/webserver. ;-)

Re:Microsoft should give XBox for free

[Anonymous Coward]

Or maybe they could like integrate one game into it which looks visually pleasing, but gets boring within three minutes of play.

Like Tetris on the gameboy.

Re:Microsoft should give XBox for free

[quantaman]

All I can say is bleed, bleed, bleed.
Who knows after losing money at this rate after a few hundred years it may start to even hurt them!

Re:Microsoft should give XBox for free

[Anonymous Coward]

They already lose money on every XBox they sell. If you hate MS so much, why not just buy lots of XBoxes without buying any games?

Re:Microsoft should give XBox for free

[rodac]

Good idea, Me "I hear you are giving the XBox away for free?" MS "Yes that is correct" Me "Nice, can you please send some 250.000 units my way. It will make your volumes look very nice." MS "No worries. You are going to buy some 25.000.000 games to make up for our capital loss on the HW are you?" Me "Yeah, sure, promise. I wouldnt dream of ripping the DVD player out of the box and selling them on ebay for 5$ a piece. No way, not me. Trust me."

Re:Microsoft should give XBox for free

[fabiolrs]

i also dont think ill rip all the HDs and build my own 100 terabyte personal computer! ;)

Yay, Microsoft losing more money!

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't wait to see how badly the X-Box bites these morons in the ass.

BestBuy & CircuitCity PS2 Prices

[egriebel]

I guess nobody told them big-boxers (nor their customers) that the price has been cut. They were both selling PS2 systems for $299 without any included games in Rochester, NY, USA.

Re:BestBuy & CircuitCity PS2 Prices

[Dimensio]

You should let them know (or let Sony USA know), because every store I've been to in Louisville KY has the prices cut on the PS2 and Xbox already.

Re:BestBuy & CircuitCity PS2 Prices

[Artifex]

I've always thought that Circuit City would charge above-retail if it could get away with it. I really don't understand why anyone supports that chain; it sucks.

That being said, did you actually visit the stores, or just look at the Sunday ads? Those ads are printed weeks in advance...

Re:BestBuy & CircuitCity PS2 Prices

[egriebel]

That being said, did you actually visit the stores, or just look at the Sunday ads? Those ads are printed weeks in advance...

Doh! Just looked at Sunday ads. I don't know if either store has adjusted their prices or not.

News Update

[Lumpy]

API newswire May 20, 2002 10:02 AM
Richard Head reporting from redmond WA...

Microsoft Announces Xbox Bundle to Compete with Console pricewars.

Microsoft this morning in a retalitaory move against Nintendo and Sony's attempts to undermine the sales of the Xbox has announced that they will not be lowering the price of the Xbox but will in fact be bundling it with several high quality applications.
Steve Ballmer in a private interview said, "The public has been clamoring for a killer app for the Xbox and we have decided to give it to them. As of today we will be selling Xboxes with free copies of Microsoft BOB for their PC and a special ported version of BOB for the Xbox. we are confident that this will crust the competition."

Sony and Nintendo represenatives were unavailable for comment.

Re:News Update

[MagPulse]

AP News: May 20, 2002 5:31pm

Sony and Nintendo officials have freed themselves of a thin egg coating and several inches of bread crumbs by "eating their way out", said one witness.

"We were having lunch when suddenly I was blinded by flying particles. I didn't know what they were, but it smelled like stale bread and some sort of Italian seasoning..." said a hysterical Sony developer.

After being treated and released, most of those affected said they would not press charges. "We know Microsoft did it, but we will fight a clean war, in the marketplace" declared Nintendo President Hiroshi Yamauchi.

Re:News Update

[Anonymous Coward]

This is much funnier than what I was going to write. (the parent poster wrote crust instead of crush.)

AU$300 with tradein

[thogard]

If you trade in 8 ps or n64 games you can get a new cube for AU$300 which is about US$150.

Re:AU$300 with tradein

[chicks_dig_it]

the gamecube has actually allready been dropped to 298$ and the games are 89$ australian allready heh the damm thing only came out friday, im thinking of getting one+ sonic adventure 2 battle! yay.

Re:AU$300 with tradein

[The_dev0]

Yes, well, fuck. I just piad AU$318 at Target on Saturday for mine (pre-ordered) and I should have waited four bloody days. Then I could have afforded to buy another game, too. I already own an x-box and have free access to a ps2 but all I can say is: the Gamecube SHITS on both if 'em. Stylish, great tech, small, silent, most comfortable controller EVER, portable, the list goes on.... I'm sure you won't be dissappointed when you pick yours up!

Last time MS dropped their prices...

[WEFUNK]

...to match their competitor they nearly drove Netscape out of business.

Just a thought...

As much as competitive pricing is a good thing, I hope there's some margin left at the end of the day or this market will turn into a winner take all for whoever's got the motivation and money to stick it out.

Re:Last time MS dropped their prices...

[ArhcAngel]

But unlike the IE-NS analogy where giving a binary application away for free doesn't increase per copy cost. The XBox is a tangible product that costs $$ to produce. Once IE reached a certain code base the cost drops Significantly to sustain. Giving away code is as easy as the copy command. Giving away an XBox is not. Even Microsoft with their Billions cannot afford the kind of drain giving away hardware would entail. Unless of course they start charging for IE.

Re:Last time MS dropped their prices...

[NewWazoo]

Unless of course they start charging for IE

Uh, they do. It's called Windows.

Brandon

Re:Last time MS dropped their prices...

[darekana]

Uh, they do. It's called Windows.

Unless you're running it on a Mac...

Re:Last time MS dropped their prices...

[WEFUNK]

Giving away code is as easy as the copy command. Giving away an XBox is not. Even Microsoft with their Billions cannot afford the kind of drain giving away hardware would entail.

Good point. But that's why it's a function of both money *and* motivation. If Sony and Nintendo are just trying to sell a game system that's one thing. If Microsoft is using the XBox as part of a hardware convergence strategy (TV, DVD, Computer, Game System, Home Automation, World Domination, etc.) they might have greater motivation to lose money for an extended period. Of course, having $40 Billion in cash to back this up doesn't hurt...

Re:Last time MS dropped their prices...

[pjkacmar]

Though in this case when Microsoft brought the Xbox out, they matched it to the Playstation 2's pricing. Sony basically matched Microsoft's $199 pricing (yes, Sony announced it a little over a day before Microsoft did, but it had already been leaked that Microsoft was going to make the announcement today-May 20-of a price of $199).

The companies really don't need a margin at the end of the day. I hope the competition drives the prices into the ground. We all know how evil Microsoft is here in the US. What a lot of people don't realize is that Sony is basically just as evil in Japan. Both have a lot of money and can survive price drops.

If price drops continue, I'll be the winner by being able to afford both of these systems plus the Gamecube and whatever good games each system has to offer.

Re:Last time MS dropped their prices...

[Anne_Nonymous]

Sony has revenues of about $20 billion. In its best year Netscape had revenues of about half a billion dollars. Additionally, Sony has been an expert manufacturer for years and knows how to control costs, while Microsoft is a long term player in the software business, and hasn't ever had variable costs before. Sure, sure, Microsoft doesn't fight fair, but in this arena they don't have much of an advantage and will not bankrupt Sony. Duh.

Re:Last time MS dropped their prices...

[InodoroPereyra]

You got a point there:

As much as competitive pricing is a good thing, I hope there's some margin left at the end of the day or this market will turn into a winner take all for whoever's got the motivation and money to stick it out.

And we all know who the winner will be. M$ is already a huge monopoly in other markets, they can afford to lose some money for a while here, get the competitors out of business, and then raise the prices again as high as they want. :-(

Re:Last time MS dropped their prices...

[Dark Paladin]

And, they could:

Give away IE without paying more shipping/distribution costs. (Here, it will cost them $275 just to make the damn thing, and another chunk to ship it to all the stores.)

Threaten OEM's with reprisals if they didn't leave IE in and take Netscape out. (Here, if they go to Software Etc and threaten to them to take out the PS2's, they'll be laughed at.)

Install IE in every Windows machine by default. (Here, I don't see me getting an Xbox bundled with every TV purchase.)

I'm still comfortable with my decision to get rid of my Xbox until they produce more than one game (Halo) that I actually want to play. And by then, I'll get the Xbox for $99 and the games for $20.

Re:Last time MS dropped their prices...

[Snowfox]

But unlike the IE-NS analogy where giving a binary application away for free doesn't increase per copy cost. The XBox is a tangible product that costs $$ to produce. Once IE reached a certain code base the cost drops Significantly to sustain. Giving away code is as easy as the copy command. Giving away an XBox is not. Even Microsoft with their Billions cannot afford the kind of drain giving away hardware would entail. Unless of course they start charging for IE.

MS is no longer interested in selling the XBox. They're interested in selling the monthly online service that will soon be available for it, and they continue to be interested in selling software.

They also continue to be interested in establishing a foothold in your living room so that they can blend your television (your eyes) into the .NET communication infrastructure.

The money to be earned from games will be dwarfed by the money to be gained by establishing a monopolistic control over real-time communications, which would seem to be Microsoft's current goal.

Re:Last time MS dropped their prices...

[WEFUNK]

Microsoft doesn't fight fair, but in this arena they don't have much of an advantage and will not bankrupt Sony.

Agreed. Sony certainly has the money, and even has similar motivation to Microsoft (they're already in the consumer/home electronics game, Microsoft wants to be).

However, Sony could actually be at a disadvantage precisely because Sony "has been an expert manufacturer for years and knows how to control costs, while Microsoft...hasn't ever had variable costs before."

Why is this so? Because these systems represent a bold new venture for MS, while for Sony they are very important, but still part of a broad portfolio of hardware. MS management is probably already sold on the proposition of losing money for an extended period and probably expect to make their money on software and services. Sony execs are used to making good money on hardware and will need special convincing if the Playstation group can't continue to produce expected margins. As an experienced manufacturer their reporting and bonus structure is probably based around these numbers. I'm not familiar with the extent and profile of Sony's convergence strategy, but with MS it seems pretty central and separate from near-term profits.

Re:Last time MS dropped their prices...

[killmenow]

But if you can run it on a Mac, how can it be a part of the Operating System?

Re:Last time MS dropped their prices...

[sheldon]

"(Here, I don't see me getting an Xbox bundled with every TV purchase.)"

That's because Microsoft doesn't make TVs.

However, you might get a PS2 bundled with every TV purchase.

Re:Last time MS dropped their prices...

[laserjet]

uuhh... well... it is... uhm.... why must you ask so many questions?! its... uhhh... part of the... micro... kernel. Yeah, that's it. It's part of the microkernel.

-Microsoft in court

Re:Last time MS dropped their prices...

[Bios_Hakr]

MS is not trying to kill Sony. At least, not yet. MS is trying to occupy the #2 position in what has always been a 2 player market.

Once they have the #2 slot firm, the XBox 1.1 will make people drool with the promise of VHS-quality films broadcast from the MS servers. Maybe 2 films a month for the basic service fee.

XBox 2.0 will have a QoS system to make sure you actually get your film. From there, a partnership with AOL/Time Warner to include commercials while you are gaming/watching TV.

XBox 2.1 will be a PVR system...with no fast-forward.

Yet More

[nervlord1]

Yet More proof (asif we needed anymore) that competition _WORKS_

Imagine, just imagine, if the OS market was like this. i CRINGE to think about how good our operating systems would be (think VR, 3d Interfaces that are common, everything you'd want from an OS)

sigh. I wish it really was the OS market.

Re:Yet More

[alen]

And then slashdotters will start complaining why the newest OS doesn't run on their P75 or slower PC with all the bells and whistles. MS is putting in hardware 3d acceleration into Longhorn and we can all remember how /.ers liked that idea. But if someone else puts out a 3d OS it's OK.

Re:Yet More

[Izeickl]

I know this is marked as a troll and will probably result in me getting marked the same way, but I have to agree.. Ive "known" about Linux and other OS for a long time, and use FreeBSD for all my servers, but I just -dont like- any of them as a desktop OS....Not saying their bad, I just dont like using them compared to Win2K. Perhaps in a few more years things will change.

Re:Yet More

[josh crawley]

I agree with Mr "-1 Troll". He's right.

However, Linux on the desktop does work. It's a bitch to correctly set up. However, most hardware isnt the problem anymore. It's permissions, software installs, things like that. If every piece software had installers like the one that Loki put with their games (ran graphical OR gui), then yes, Linux would easily be for the desktop. I'm actually running Linux continously (trying to get everything I need done in Linux).

As a sysadmin perspective, Linux rocks.
As a home deesktop user, Linux is way too hard.

Re:Yet More

[josh crawley]

However, I DEEPLY commend those working on the Linux Media front. Those include sharing apps (Lopster), fully reprogrammed lib's of popular AVI compressions (DiVX), the folks at mPlayer (not the windows app), and Xmms. I've only used those so far, but look foward to getting others. I'll be getting Real Player soon. Why you ask? They count downloads.

Re:Yet More

[sheldon]

Well I remember when our OS market was like this. Each OS had it's own little niche, there was no incentive to try to outdo anybody else rather they worked to lock you in to their particular product. Companies like Sun would charge $200 for manuals to their system because they knew they could get away with it, and so forth.

The OS market has had more innovation and more excitement in just the past 4-5 years than in the 20 years previous to that.

Re:Yet More

[Anonymous Coward]

(think VR, 3d Interfaces that are common, everything you'd want from an OS)

Are you on drugs, or is it just that you're not in IT full-time?

Anyone with an inkling of a clue about interface design knows that VR + 3D interfaces are not the way to go.

Nice to see the US catching up...

[h0tblack]

..well in fact it's nice that for a change Europe was ahead on the recent price cuts of both the GC and xbox. Both are great consoles and both are reaching a price-mark that your average gamer can afford, and that's what consoles are all about. I really hope th GC holds its own and doesn't get pushed out by Sony or M$, with Sega out of the console hardware market, they're the only old-skool manufacturer left after all. ANother Gc variant worth checking out is the Panasonic Q. It's only officially availible in Japan, but plays just about everything you could wish for (mp3s, VCD's, DVD's, games etc and is availible modded to bypass zoning). http://www.dvdgame.jp/ and http://cube.ign.com/articles/097/097782p1.html

Things to do today

[Anonymous Coward]

1. Start flame war.

2. Hand wash delicate underclothing.

Like Gillette...

[sdo1]

Give away the razors and sell them the blades...

-S

Re:Like Gillette...

[Anonymous Coward]

Those blades aren't cheap either. Either I got robbed or those things come out to around $2 a piece. WTF?? For razor blades?

Re:Like Gillette...

[ProppaT]

Man, and for a second I thought you were gonna say "The best a man can get." I'm supprised the X-box has stayed competitive this long. The super powerful hardware is fine and dandy until you figure out no one is publishing anything worth playing for it. Thank you very much, I'll play my PC games on my PC and my console games on my consoles, namely the PS2 and Gamecube. Who really needs a bloated PC port machine anyway?

Re:Like Gillette...

[Anonymous Coward]

i hate that business practice, that is why i give away free blades, via halloween candy... so kids, next time you get cut by a blade in your peanut butter cup, remember to give it to your dad as a gift!

Re:Like Gillette...

[tlh1005]

better yet, add the word turbo to it and charge even more for both!

Re:Like Gillette...

[GutBomb]

just wondering. how many games on the xbox are actually ported from the pc? i would have to call the dreamcast a PC port machine before the xbox. what is the xbox's PC port/native ratio anyway. it may have a lot of sucky games and not be worth the buy, but get your facts straight.

Re:Like Gillette...

[Anonymous Coward]

But have you ever used the Turbo? That razor is the shit!!!

Re:Like Gillette...

[Anonymous Coward]

Uhhh... that's the point. The razor (the thing you hold in your hand) is sold dirt cheap, even at a loss. Then they make up the difference by getting HUGE margins on the razor blades.

The game makers can give away the console, sell the games at $50 each, and make big bucks doing it.

Re:Like Gillette...

[Glytch]

It would be more fair to call the Dreamcast an arcade port machine, I think.

Old ways of thinking

[ssummer]

I think it is finally time that the notion that you can only own one console (and in accordance, that console thus becomes the BEST console ever in existence) can finally die. At these prices, it is not implausible to own the top three consoles on the market for around the same price it would take most peopleto make a decent game rig out of their PC.

On a different note, with the whole PS2/Linux thing, is their any possibility of seeing emulators (2600, NES, SNES, Genesis) comig out for it?

Re:Old ways of thinking

[Brad Wilson]

I agree. I have three consoles I would consider "current gen": Dreamcast (which I bought when it hit $50 w/ $10 games, and just stocked up like mad), GameCube, and Xbox. All for different reasons and different games. I may yet get a PS2, again, for other reasons (there: depth of software and a few exclusives I'd like to play like FF and MGS).

I think the market can support multiple consoles, as long as "long lived" titles can get to better price points quickly. $50 is okay for a game (same as what I pay for PC games, on average), but I've ended up buying -- and enjoying -- games that were cheap. A $25 or 30 risk is much lower than a $50 risk (hence my discovery that Super Monkey Ball was such a riot to play!).

Agreeed. Console/PC difference lies elesewhere.

[aepervius]

Aside of the technolgical difference, the main difference as a player IMO in the gameplay offered in each games on each plateform. Although it tends to change now, until recently console were (and are still mainly) arcadish gameplay. Whereas PC offer a wider palett of type of gameplay , but isn't so keen or good at the pure arcade gameplay.

Wow, and this is stifiling innovation?

[Neck_of_the_Woods]

Someone should bring this up in all the little court cases Microsoft is having right now. Pricing, innovation, quick to market, online services...when was the last time you saw microsoft work this hard to get market share? Seems to me, the layman, that this competition thing makes them work a bit harder, get product out a bit faster, and make something worlth having. Then again, it might just be a cheaper piece of shit with one good game. At least with other products on the market I can pay 1/3 less for that pos.

Re: Wow, and this is stifiling innovation?

[weave]

Pricing, innovation, quick to market, online services...when was the last time you saw microsoft work this hard to get market share?

Yeah, until they dominate this market as well, then the innovation that we care about will stop and other innovation, like controlling living room entertainment and pricing, will begin.

Refunds....

[CHUD-Wretch]

Will places like Software Etc. refund the
difference if you've purchased a
Gamecube/PS2/XBX in the last 30 days?

If not, which stores do this?

(007 agent under fire...the best thing since goldeneye)

Re:Refunds....

[NewWazoo]

They all do! (grin)

1) Ask for refund of $50 + tax.
2) Be denied.
3) Say, "I'd like to return my [PS2|Xbox], it doesn't work with my TV."
4) Recieve money
5) Turn right around and re-buy a PS2 at discounted cost, making sure refund-denier observes said activity.
6) Cease purchasing from location.

Simple!

Brandon

Re:Refunds....

[motardo]

Here's a comic that sums it all up. http://www.penny-arcade.com/view2002-05-15rl.html. But seriously, best buy does price matching.

Re:Refunds....

[Anonymous Coward]

I bought a PS2 at Circuit City in late April specifically because of their price guarantee given the rumors of impending price cuts.

I was at the store the morning after the cut was announced with receipt in hand. Got my $100 plus 10% back no problem at all.

Re:Refunds....

[karnal]

Check Out Penny Arcade's take on this.

Re:Refunds....

[bigfinger]

Fry's will

Re:Refunds....

[DrMaurer]

Depends how you bought it, some credit-card companies will do price matching for you.

It was relatively common when I got my first one (early ninetys), I'm not sure about yours, if you even have one, and what those options are now.

Oh yeah!

[Ranger Rick]

I'll second this.

I actually had no intention of buying a Game Cube, but I played Super Monkey Ball at my friend's place over Christmas and had ended up buying one the next day.

There's a reasonable number of good games for the GameCube (and Mario Kart's coming -- that's reason enough to buy it right there!), but I'm not kidding, it's worth getting one even if Super Monkey Ball is the only game you get...

PS2 has better simulation/action games, XBox has more "PC-like" games, but GameCube has all the games that are fun with a group of people at a party.

Now more in-line with British prices

[Andy_R]

Ever since the launch in Britain, the Game Cube has been priced at 129 UKP, which is about 188 USD.

Given the historical trend of consoles costing more here in Britain than in the US, I think this is more of a price re-alignment than a cut.

Less widely reported, but of interest to people looking for a cheap gaming experience, Sony dropped the UK price of the PSOne to 49 UKP, did something similar happen in the US?

Re:Now more in-line with British prices

[phong3d]

Sony dropped the UK price of the PSOne to 49 UKP, did something similar happen in the US?

Yes, Sony cut the price of the PSOne to US$49 last week.

Re:Now more in-line with British prices

[motardo]

Sony dropped the price of the PSOne here in the states to $49 USD.

-motardo

Re:Now more in-line with British prices

[JamesSharman]

Once again proving that the media companies think that $1=£1, is the concept of an exchange rate really that difficult for them to deal with?

Re:Now more in-line with British prices

[Glytch]

"I wish," sayeth the Canadian, looking at getting a CAN$298 PS2 right now...

Re:Now more in-line with British prices

[tb3]

Look on the bright side, its a helluva lot better than the $460 it was last week.

Like a poker game with no limit

[NFNNMIDATA]

Sony (holding royal flush): I raise you $1.
Nintendo (holding 4 aces): I'll see your $1 and raise you $2:
MS (holding jack-squat): I'll see your $2 and raise you A MILLION BILLION DOLLARS.
Sony: Fold.
Nintendo: Fold.
MS: Mwahahahahahaha.

Re:Like a poker game with no limit

[Anonymous Coward]

Just like MS. Blow a million billion dollars to win 3.

Re:Like a poker game with no limit

[Anonymous Coward]

No, if everyone else folded, they would take the pot -- and therefore, not lose the "million billion dollars" -- they'd just make $3.

Why is this tagged as 'Troll'

[rcs1000]

Outrageous. What's so 'troll-y' about this?

Re:Why is this tagged as 'Troll'

[Green Light]

Well, for one thing it totally ignores Nintendo's franchise. It's like the poster never heard of Mario, Zeldo, the Fox thingy, Metroid...

To think that Nintendo will disappear because M$ has an entry in the field is a bit unrealistic.

I'm not surprised by this

[MtViewGuy]

The price drop by Nintendo on the GameCube was expected. Do you think Nintendo was going to keep the price at US$199 when PlayStation 2 and XBox now sport the same price?

Besides, Nintendo's greatest strength is its own internal software development group. There are a big number of potentially great games coming out for GameCube from Nintendo coming out later this year that will really drive GameCube sales.

Re:I'm not surprised by this

[karnal]

I agree that Nintendo's own internal software group tends to do a really great job... but I can't believe they don't have a "mario" game out for the system (Like Mario64, etc). I used to love playing SMB on the NES as a kid (As well as Zelda and Metroid).

I would have figured they'd have one of these 3 out already.... Kinda makes me want to hold off even more, until it hits the 100$ mark :)

Re:I'm not surprised by this

[Babbster]

Mario Sunshine is on its way. It's probably a good thing that they waited on Mario, for at least two reasons: 1) They got an automatic push last Christmas season by virtue of the fact that the system was brand new; thus, they can get a second big Nintendo push this Christmas when Mario Sunshine hits the stores (can you say 70% profit margin? I knew you could!) and 2) Because Mario64 was considered one of the finest console games ever, they've really got to get it right with the new Mario. I wouldn't be surprised if Luigi's Mansion was originally going to be a Mario game but they reconsidered because it didn't have enough of the "wow factor" (it's handy having two characters who look exactly the same and all you have to do is change the colors). :)

-Aaron

Re:I'm not surprised by this

[Ziviyr]

Kinda makes me want to hold off even more, until it hits the 100$ mark :)

If GameCube goes down to $100 earlier than January 2004 I will be somewhat surprised.

Or Anti-Virus Software

[Mastagunna]

Which is even worse cause everyone believes that they are getting protection from viruses, and all they are getting is clean-up after the virus is out, so if they get infected earlier then the newest info is out, to bad. Piracy of anti-virus software is the only piracy i support, since they are basically selling protection like the old mobsters sold.

Resident Evil...

[Aqua OS X]

Get Resident Evil. You'll get houuurs of game play, scared every now and then, and amazingly cool graphics (the realtime models and lighting effects within this game are nothing short of awesome).

You might also want to check out Star Wars Rogue Leader, Tony Hawk 3, 007, Spider Man (goofy camera controls though), and Pikmin.

A lot of folks seem to like Super Smash Bros as well... but that game was a bit too much for me. Too many colors and flashing lights.

Re:Resident Evil...

[ocbwilg]

A lot of folks seem to like Super Smash Bros as well... but that game was a bit too much for me. Too many colors and flashing lights.

I felt much the same way when I saw it. In fact, my exact comments were "This is a game that was truly designed for the ADD generation." I guess nowadays they call it ADHD though. It has 45-second levels, fashing lights, bright colors, and more crap happening onscreen than you could ever hope to notice, let alone comprehend.

BOB a killer ap? hehe

[aliens]

I dunno, maybe they really revamped it, but didn't BOB die a quick death the first time they released it?

Re:BOB a killer ap? hehe

[laserjet]

If you didn't get that joke, perhaps it's time to take your ritalin, Johnny.

MS needs a new EULA...

[smackdotcom]

Gates and co. simply need to devise a new End-User License Agreement with the following provisions:

By opening the packaging that contains this X-Box, the user agrees that he or she will not purchase a competing console, play games on a friend's competing console, or even look for more than five seconds at a competing console when walking through a store. Furthermore, by plugging in the Microsoft X-Box, the user consents to any and all changes that the Microsoft X-Box may implement in the user's household, including the notification of Microsoft corporate headquarters in the event that a competing console is detected in the household, and the neurological reprogramming of any of the user's offspring to become better Microsoft customers.

That ought to help good ol' MS take its rightful place in our homes and lives.

Re:MS needs a new EULA...

[shadow303]

I could also see it including some agreement that eac h xbox console must cannot be transferred to a different tv than the one it is originally connected to. Also, each game may only be used by a single console.

Super GameCube Advance

[ArhcAngel]

I think I'm gonna wait for the SGCA. It will probably have A DVD/CD/MP3/OGG/WMA/etc. player plus built in PS2/XBox firmware emulation so you can play all of your titles. The graphics will be handled by Matrox's new G1000 series GPU and the unit will also double as a maid/butler when you're not searching for Rupes and fighting Gandolf.

Re:Super GameCube Advance

[Anonymous Coward]

Hopefully, it will also have a spellcheck.

Re:Super GameCube Advance

[theEdgeSMAK]

...and the unit will also double as a maid/butler when you're not searching for Rupes and fighting Gandolf.

Gandolf? That nice old wizard? Don't you mean gannon? Just my 1.5 cents.

jeremy

Re:Super GameCube Advance

[zerOnIne]

but what you'd really want is a beowulf cluster of these running linux and connected to your yopy!
</slashdotism>

Re:Super GameCube Advance

[killmenow]

Or perhaps he meant Gandalf?

Re:Super GameCube Advance

[Hott of the World]

...fighting Gandolf.

Or, as in the N64 and Smash Bros. Melee versions, Gannondorf!
I still suprised at the number of people who confuse the two,
and aren't as nerdy cool as me.

Re:Super GameCube Advance

[theEdgeSMAK]

I believe gannondorf is the human counterpart
of the transformed piglike gannon.

In related news...

[Saxerman]

...Microsoft is now giving away the XBox for free. A spokesperson for the software giant was quoted as saying, "Our stockholders demand that we extend our monopoly in other branches of the economy like the many tentacles of Great Cthulhu. We are confident we can win a price war against anyone."

Wide palette of gameplay

[pommiekiwifruit]

Any game you want, as long as it's Command and Conquer or Doom.

As opposed to arcades where you have a choice between Pitstop and Karate Champ.

Microsoft could bundle DVD kit instead

[Mr.Sharpy]

Instead of lowering the price on the XBOX, Microsoft could bundle in their dvd kit at the current $199 price for value added competition instead of direct price competition. It would be a smart move for Microsoft because 1) producing that kit is probably cheaper than lowering the price of the xbox $50, 2) it provides a great advertisement angle--"More raw power than Gamecube and a FREE DVD Player!", and 3) people are suckers for 'free' stuff and value added items.

Because the price gap between the Xbox and Gamecube is now just $50 dollars, I think consumers on the fence will be looking beyond just the price and more towards the things the consoles can do. And with the DVD kit, the Xbox wins the features competition, not necessarily because people would actually use the DVD features; but just because people like a bargain.

Re:Microsoft could bundle DVD kit instead

[Green Light]

Speaking of a bundle with "free" stuff, I was at Sam's Club yesterday, and of course headed straight to the XBox display to see what they were doing since the price cut. They had a bundle with Halo, one other game (duh, can't remember which one - NFL game maybe?), and the DVD Player remote for $320. Not really such a deal if I don't like the games.

Re:Microsoft could bundle DVD kit instead

[alen]

It's easier to drop the price since there are so many on the shelf. There is probably some kind of revenue split deal with the X-boxes. WIth the accessories it's probably a different deal and would require renegotiation with a lot of stores.

Re:Microsoft could bundle DVD kit instead

[ph0rk]

its not like a DVD player is something people can't already buy for $99.

If i were comparing the xbox and the gamecube (i'm not, i already have a ps2 and a cube) i'd be interested in nintendo's "it does games. nothing else. but it does games well" ad campaign.

if i want a dvd player, i'll buy the sweet phillips gamecube dvd from lik-sang.

Re:Microsoft could bundle DVD kit instead

[sheldon]

Bah, then Sony will sue Microsoft for product bundling. :)

Re:Microsoft could bundle DVD kit instead

[Artifex]

They need to bundle the DVD kit anyway, to compete on price/features with the PS/2, which already has that functionality built in at that price (though Sony does charge extra for a remote).

Re:Microsoft could bundle DVD kit instead

[Artifex]

Actually, around here, you can buy DVD players for about $60. =)

However, DVD playability in consoles is a big deal for the millions of parents who are buying consoles for their kids. They may not know much about the great games or the technical aspects of the consoles, but they do know that they're buying the console as a way to keep little Jimmy and Julie occupied, and if they can go play their Disney DVDs in their rooms and not in the den, even better.

Re:Microsoft could bundle DVD kit instead

[Peter McC]

It wouldn't actually be much cheaper for Microsoft to include the DVD player kit. The entire reason it's a separate kit anyway (and the reason you can't play DVDs with just the stock machine and the controller, like the PS2 can) is because the MPAA / DVD consortium require a licensing fee for selling such a machine, IIRC around $30. Microsoft elected to make the XBox unable to play DVDs by default to avoid this fee and keep the system cost down. They then rolled the licensing fee cost into the cost of the remote.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but it's not necessarily cheap.

Peter

Re:Microsoft could bundle DVD kit instead

[Chemical]

They need to bundle the DVD kit anyway, to compete on price/features with the PS/2, which already has that functionality built in at that price

What for? So you don't get a remoteless DVD player with the Xbox? Think of the features you are getting. A hard drive (save $30 on a memory card right there. Use the money you save on memory cards to purchase that coveted DVD addon. Also, Sony plans to charge like $100 for their HDD addon). Built in ethernet (Sony is gonna charge you another $50 for that whenever they get around to releasing it). A graphics processor that is more than 2x as powerful (a feature the PS2 will never have).

To summarize:
Xbox ($200) + HDD (Included) + Ethernet (Included) + DVD Player ($30) + Remote (Indcluded with DVD package) = $230

PS2 ($200) + HDD ($100) + Ethernet ($50) + DVD Player (Included) + DVD Remote ($30) = $380.

I'm not dissing on the PS2, I'm just saying stop whining about how the Xbox doesn't come with DVD.

Wow... that really IS like Microsoft...

[JHMirage]

Sony (holding royal flush): I raise you $1.
Nintendo (holding 4 aces): I'll see your $1 and raise you $2:
MS (holding jack-squat): I'll see your $2 and raise you A MILLION BILLION DOLLARS.

Yep. Just like Microsoft... they don't even play by the rules in ironic-analogy-world!

Re:Wow... that really IS like Microsoft...

[Anonymous Coward]

This analogy doesn't really hold up, I'm afraid.

In tournament style poker, Sony and Nintendo would be able to go "all in". The pot would be split into Sony's potential winnings, Nintendo's potential winnings, and MS's potential winnings (all of it).

It is nice to see...

[Slad]

It is so nice to see so many unbiased postings on /. when it comes to video games, especially the XBox.

I guess MS has it coming, a bit, for years of shaddy business practices. I just find if funny that in a news article about Nintendo dropping their GC prices, almost 1/2 the postings are about the XBox and how despite it's competitive pricing and superior hardware, it is "doomed."

I wonder if it would receive this much criticism if it were Sega's console...

Re:It is nice to see...

[Anonymous Coward]

You gotta love the fact that /. overlooks the shoddy practices of Sun, AOL-Timewarner, Oracle, Sony and Apple only to blast Microsoft.

A bunch of open source "hypocrites".

You people have the gaul to say that you are not being controlled by other companies.

You honestly think that Microsoft is the only company doing what its doing? You are more ignorant than you think.

Re:It is nice to see...

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't see anyone shouting that the XBox is doomed. All I've read is how it's going to crush the gamecube (underhandedly or not).

Re:It is nice to see...

[Babbster]

And apparently you've missed the X-Box-related Microsoft handjobs handed out by posters here over the last few months. BTW- If all you care about are technical specifications, perhaps you would be better off sticking to PC gaming where you can actually keep up with the pace of technology. In terms of gaming power, the X-Box was obselescent the moment the GeForce4 came out (and was arguably obselescent once 1.2 GHz processors were relatively cheap and plentiful.

To paraphrase the Clinton campaign of a few years ago: "It's the games, stupid!"

-Aaron

Re:It is nice to see...

[hkmwbz]

Microsoft are in a monopoly situation. When they use dodgy tactics, it kills competition further.

When other companies do it, they do not kill off the competition, they are competing in a free market.

There is a huge difference between the effects of a monopolist and a participant in a free market.

Market Perception

[supercytro]

I hope this doesn't hurt Nintendo by altering mass-market perception into thinking that by offering a cheaper product, it is inferior to the PS2 and X-Box.

Now I have a GC and realise that it is in no way inferior but I wonder what Joe Public will be thinking if he is buying a system for his son?

"Only the best for my son. Give me the most expensive system you have!"

I wonder also how sales assistant will push the systems and if they would use the same argument?

I just hope the market is knowledgeable enough to see beyond the price and realise they're picking up a bargain...

Re:Market Perception

[Anonymous Coward]

Think about the original Gameboy. It was offered as the cheapest portable platform. That's the way they're still fighting. Granted other portable systems of the time could leave the GB in the dust in terms of graphics, but GB still had the price advantage. Although I never owned an original GB it probably had a better battery life too.

Anyway, if you think about it, until the GameCube comes out with their AAA first party titles, Nintendo can easily rely upon the profits from their GameBoy Advance. Right now that is their true cash hog. A platform with NO real competition, that is insanly cheap, sells games like there's no tomorrow, and has about as much thrid part support as the PS2. You can always say that big N will be out of the game soon because of slimming price margins, but until you wrestle the portable market from them for a better price or better games, then they will always have money for a comeback.

Re:Market Perception

[ocbwilg]

I hope this doesn't hurt Nintendo by altering mass-market perception into thinking that by offering a cheaper product, it is inferior to the PS2 and X-Box.

Pssst...here's a hint. The Gamecube was priced at $199 for many months while the XBox and PS2 were priced at $299. Do you think that the $100 price difference hurt them then? If not (you bought one, obviously), then why would you think that a $50 price difference would hurt them now?

Nice try, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

Nintendo has a better software than XBOX (by far) and it has better hardware specs (by far) than PS2.

Plus, if you like Nintendo games, there is no substitute.

Re:Nice try, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

The GC is better than the PS2? You`re joking - its spec is shit! Lucky for Nintendo that the spec doesnt matter!

Re:Nice try, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you even looked at the specs of the GC and the PS2? If so then your statement makes you a moron. Spec wise the GC FAR outstrips the PS2. That's an indesputable fact. Next time try actually looking at the console specs.

Re:Nice try, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, the PS2 does have superior hardware to the NGC, but it's about a few orders of magnatude harder to get the 'best' performance out of the 4 specialized processors (three of them at 300 mhz) inside the PS2.
Nintendo made the GC easy to develop for, so while it has a 485 Mhz CPU, that CPU isn't actually 'more powerful' than the PS2's processing design. Sega was able to port finished Dreamcast games to the NGC in half the time it would have taken to get them to run decently on a PS2.
The NGC surely has a more elegant solution, but the PS2 has much more raw power, if the developer can handle the difficulty of the Multiple Processor design of the PS2.

Re:Nice try, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

But the PS2 also has to deal with Sony's annoying "oh, just stream it from disc" methodology of putting very little video/texture memory into the system. I was all ready to lambast Nintendo on their memory architecture at first, until I found that they were using high-end 1-ns NVRAM in the system.

(Texture/video memory is one of my biggest gripes. One reason I was so happy to see "who needs a decent amount of texture memory on our video cards?"-3dfx die an early and shameful death)

Re:Nice try, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

the PS2 has much more raw power, if the developer can handle the difficulty of the Multiple Processor design of the PS2.

didn't they say the same thing about the Saturn?

Microsoft's new plan...

[qurob]

Throwing in a free XBOX game of your choice, and the DVD capability.

Does it really matter?

[lyberth]

What matter does it that the console is cheap, as long as the games costs the same as some countries bpn.
If they instead made the games cheaper it would get interesting

quoting Yoda:

[blankmange]

"Begun it has, this console war."

No, wait, maybe he was philosophising on something else...

Re:quoting Yoda:

[Guitarzan]

"The dark side clouds everything."

(Interpret as you wish...)

*whoooooosh*

[Wakko Warner]

Hear that?

That was the sound of the B-2 Stealth Joke Plane soaring over your head, safely undetected.

- A.P.

Re:*whoooooosh*

[mobets]

lol, this gave me a bigger laugh than the original joke.

Re:*whoooooosh*

[NeMon'ess]

Hey Wakko, what if the comment isn't a troll or a flame, but merely doesn't deserve the score it has?

Re:*whoooooosh*

[Wakko Warner]

Then reply to it with some smart-ass quip, and click "post anonymously". A lot more fun than sour-grapes moderation.

- A.P.

In related news...

[teamhasnoi]

All games for Xbox, PS2, and Game Cube will now retail for one soul.

hmm.. this makes...

[hatrisc]

this makes me very happy considering i'm broke and want to be able to play aggressive inline game, which will be for gamecube as well as psx and xbox, i think. anyway, i'll probably still go with psx....

Wow!

[cluening]

Is this how things in the technology world work when one of the players doesn't hold a monopoly and everybody plays fair? I wish it worked like that in the PC business...

You poker sense is wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

If one player has a royal flush, the other player cannot have 4 aces.

So although a royal flush is considered the "highest" hand, 4 aces is effectively just as high since they can't exist at the same time.

Re:You poker sense is wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

Unless one of these characters is a dishonest cheat.. Oh, wait!

Re:You poker sense is wrong

[wackybrit]

If one player has a royal flush, the other player cannot have 4 aces.

Incorrect. The most popular form of professional poker these days is Texas Hold'Em (the form also played on Yahoo! Games). Since you have to make a hand from both your own private cards and the cards on the table, you could both be using an ace that's on the table.

Article on Nintendo

[Anonymous Coward]

I found it interesting that Nintendo is using the term MSRP (MicroSoft Retail Price) in their pricing!

Computer Shakedown of '84

[The MoMo King]

Anyone remember that? I still have my Coleco Adam from that era. Anyone think that a Console shakedown is going to happen this year? If I had to bet, I think Nintendo would be the first to drop.

Re:Computer Shakedown of '84

[DLWormwood]

I was thinking the same thing. The Atari/Mattel/Coleco era came to a crashing end when the market got oversaturated.

There may be a silver lining if a new crash occurs. It could yield a return of gaming to public facilities like arcades and game clubs. Places like Dave & Buster's and GameWorks could come out well if the home market thins out again, especially for hardward intensive games like motion simulators, "dancing/music" games, and gun/weapon shooters. Most of the home gaming public never really bothered to buy the peripherals needed to get the full experience on home systems.

It may also give Stern a chance to reintroduce pinball to the American public. I still wish Williams hadn't pulled a "Sega" with the Pinball 2000 project. We could have been playing "Episode II" pinball if they stuck it out.

Re:Computer Shakedown of '84

[hkmwbz]

Nintendo currently own the handheld gaming market with the most popular gaming console ever (GameBoy) and the GBA. They also make money off every GameCube they sell, and since they develop many games internally, they get all the money for these sales as well. Not to mention the fact that they are innovators in hardware and software. Just look at who has shaped the controllers for the current consoles. And look who's got the incredible Shigeru Miyamoto on their team.

Nintendo drop? Doesn't sound too likely right now.

Makes Sense....

[NetJunkie]

The GC should be cheaper than the XBox. The GC has no DVD support, no HD, no Ethernet port, no high definition support (other than 480p) and no Dolby Digital support.

The only thing it has is Nintendo's games, which still aren't shipping.

Re:Makes Sense....

[ph0rk]

well, and EA's sports games. :)

Re:Makes Sense....

[PatJensen]

The GameCube will have an Ethernet card and modem soon. It also features progressive scanning at 480p, and has the new Dolby Pro-Logic II (which is 4 channels without the subwoofer or LRE). If you happen to have a decent enough surround receiver, it rocks!

What more do you want? You still have to pay to use the DVD player on the XBox by buying a cartridge. (from what I've heard) Even then, the quality and playability of games on the GameCube slay the XBox. Hands down.

Save the extra money you'd pay for an XBox, and buy a nice new Philips DVD player. They are down to like $100 now anyways - plus you can play VCDs and get a decent remote. The XBox would make a nice DVD player, if you wanted one the size of a microwave on your entertainment center.

Pat

Re:Makes Sense....

[NetJunkie]

Yes, it will have them *soon* for extra money, which was my point. Also, Pro-Logic II is *NOT* as good as DD5.1. It's 4 channels and lower bit rate. My receiver does PLII and it's definately not DD or DTS.

All that's required for the XBox to play DVDs is a remote control and module, which are cheap. I have a GC, XBox, and PS2 and so far I play the XBox far more than the GC. In fact, I moved a couple of months ago and my GC still isn't hooked up. I'm waiting on Mario/Zelda. Nothing else has tempted me...though I like RE and may buy the new edition.

Re:Makes Sense....

[RzUpAnmsCwrds]

PLII Kicks DD5.1's ass in games because of the inherent .5s decoding delay in DD5.1 systems (this is unavoidable; in the spec). PLII does not have this delay. Bitrate is irrelivent because PLII is not a digital format.

NIC: $35

Re:Makes Sense....

[Troed]

DPLII is 5-channel .. Dunno where you and the parent post got 4-channel from. Dolby's website will rectify that though :) It's also a LOT better than the old DPL, don't put it down until you've heard it ..

... and as another poster mentioned, it's a lot better for games also since you don't get a nasty delay.

No YOUR poker sense is wrong

[Gekko]

Not all games are straight games. Their is such a thing as wild cards. Most people I play with will play with wild cards, and while we concede the fact that there is no 5 of a kind hand even with wilds 4 of a kind and a royal can exist in the same game with wild cards.

Wildcards....

[alwayslurking]

deuces wild, or something similar

Re:Wildcards....

[gid]

No way... always do one eyed jacks and suicide kings wild.... :)

That way, people go.... "what?" and you get to sit back and explain that there are always two jacks with one eye (side view), and two kings with a knife to their head, that is, in all *real* decks at least. Then everyone thinks you're a poker god or something. That is, if you play with newbies.... :)

Re:Wildcards....

[Guitarzan]

There are 2 suicide kings? I only remember the King of Hearts... What is the other?

WILD CARDS!!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

That's a girly game.

Real poker as played by real men is with a deck of 52 cards, each retaining their face value.

Wild cards...homo....

Screw Microsoft - buy the X-Box

[mfos.org]

Normally I try to avoid M$ products, but considering how much of a loss they are eating on the X-Box, if it drops below $200, I just might buy it, see how well Linux runs.

Re:Screw Microsoft - buy the X-Box

[Anonymous Coward]

Er, it -did- drop below $200. It's $199 as of last week.

Re:Screw Microsoft - buy the X-Box

[slakdrgn]

Do this a few times, and M$ will prolly start requiring you to buy their software.. I can see it now.. "By breaking this seal and opening ths package, you agree to buy x amount of games in y amount of time."

Seriously tho, They recently dropped the price to $199, it'll be interesting to see if they knock it down a few notches.. However I don't think they are going to drop it too low, they didn't get this rich by throwing money at everything and incuring losses..

(they did it by making it look like they threw money at everyone ;)

Re:Screw Microsoft - buy the X-Box

[ocbwilg]

Screw Microsoft - buy the X-Box

Not really, think of it this way:

Scenario 1 - MS spends $389 to build an Xbox. You buy it for $199. MS loses $190 on the sale, but makes a few bucks for each game you buy and their relative marketshare goes up a blip.

Scenario 2 - MS spends $389 to build an Xbox. You don't buy it, instead buying a Gamecube or PS2. MS loses $389 on making the Xbox, doesn't get any cut of the games you buy, and their relative marketshare goes down a blip.

Now explain to me how buying an Xbox is screwing Microsoft.

Sales tax/VAT

[EnglishTim]

Remember that the $49 is without sales tax.

once you take off the VAT from the UK price, it comes out as about $58.

Look forward 3 years....

[Anonymous Coward]

In the early days, Microsoft recognized that there is no money in the hardware (of PC's). You should read Bill Gates' quotes on that... How can you make money in an industry that requires constant innocation, and the price of the product plummets every year? By selling SOFTWARE.

Microsoft is NOT after the HARDWARE gaming market... they are after the OPERATING SYSTEM and LANGUAGE revenues from the gaming market. (and maybe an occasional game). The HARDWARE is just a stepping stone, to get to the software piece.

If they can BUY the market... get all the vendors to standardize on the gaming hardware.... then they can make a killing on the software...

Watch it happen!

Face it, Gates is way smarter than you!

That's great, except...

[13Echo]

Most of these game stores (EB and Babbages Etc./Funcoland stores) don't accept returns on consoles *period*. They will do an exchange only if the unit is defective, and only it it falls within a very small timeframe, unless you purchase an ESP replacement guarantee. Why is this the way that it is? They can't resell an opened system as new. The retail store's only option is to sell it in as a used system, which puts them at a loss. This isn't just the rules of the store, but want the console manufacturers want the retail stores to do. This is why they won't take them back.

There is also most likely no television that will not work with your unit. This excuse will not work, and the salespeople know this. If you have a problem, they will sell you an RF adapter. If you need an RF adapter your prehistoric GE television probably shouldn't be playing a Gamecube anyway.

This sums it up very well:

Want a refund on your Gamecube?

Now, there were a few stores that were offering refunds, but only if you bought it within a day or two of the recent price drops.

Re:That's great, except...

[Tim Browse]

If you have a problem, they will sell you an RF adapter.

I don't know how it works elsewhere, but they couldn't get away with that in the UK. If the product does not work as described, then there's no way they can force you to buy something else to make it work, rather than give you a refund.

If you need an RF adapter your prehistoric GE television probably shouldn't be playing a Gamecube anyway.

In the UK, this would be fine - as long as they made this clear when you bought the product, of course :-)

Tim

Huh?

[bluprint]

Aren't they basically in trouble for giving away IE? It doesn't get much cheaper than that.

next, microsoft will announce

[PsiPsiStar]

special liscensing where you can get it's system for half price... but with this plan you have to pay it for all the game systems in your house, whether or not you own them.

Re:next, microsoft will announce

[killmenow]

Wouldn't it be more like you only pay half price, but you have to license it for every TV in your house, whether you hook the X-Box up to it or not?

Nitpicker

[mindstrm]

The abbreviation for the Pound is GBP.

What the...

[Dwonis]

Microsoft ... lower ... price

Whaa?

You're exactly right...

[2nd Post!]

*COMPETITION* works. Which is why Microsoft needs to be dealt with in the OS market because right now the consumer has no *CHOICES*.

He or she cannot decide between more than TWO desktop OSes right now; Mac OS X and Windows (XP, 2000, etc), and then there's the fact that a Mac will cost about $1500 to the PC's $900...

So if you like pricing, innovation, quick to market, etc... you too should support *some* kind of action to restore competition in all the markets Microsoft has a monopoly over.

Obsolete

[DarkZero]

If the PS1 is obsolete, then why are there still games coming out for it?

Re:Obsolete

[nomadic]

There are still games coming out for the Neo Geo too; obsolescence doesn't mean it doesn't function.

From what I've heard the Euros were creating (and selling at retail) Amiga and Sega Master System software years and years after they disappeared in the US. Poor provincials.

Unusual situation for MS

[rutledjw]

Doesn't this seem somewhat like an MS tactic - lowering prices beloew cost for the sole purpose of driving a competetor out of the market? Do we know if Sony or Sega are making much money from the consoles?

I don't suppose these are monopolistic practices since neither Sony nor Sega controls the gaming industry by themselves. Together they are evidently quite a force. BTW, I'm not commenting on the legality of such moves as IANAL. Although I do find it interesting when:

• when these practices are used vs. MS
• How seriously these companies are taking MS-entry into the gaming market

Re:Unusual situation for MS

[Brackney]

Traditionally, console hardware has been a loss leader to drive the real money maker, software sales. I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong) until the recent PS2 price cut, Sony had been in the position of actually being able to make a modest profit on their hardware sales. That's probably not the case now. All manufactures rely on subsequent hardware revisions to reduce part count and minimize loss, but it's a fairly rare thing when the consoles themselves are actually profitable.

Re:Unusual situation for MS

[RadioheadKid]

Are you people all on crack?

Have you payed attention for the past 15+ years. Game consoles drop in price after a certain amount of time, in fact, most electronics do, in fact, most products do, amazing huh? But now since Microsoft is involved it's a big conspiracy? The console makers were just waiting for someone to make the jump first and then they all follow, c'mon enough already....

Re:Unusual situation for MS

[rutledjw]

Oh please... You really think that the most recent console price war would have happened without the entry of MS into the field? Seriously believe that?

Previous to this, the console makers were wary of lowering their prices in such a fashion. They were somewhat like the airlines in that they wouldn't often engage in serious price wars.

Are you people all on crack?

I worked with a guy who once said "Just because nobody agrees with me doesn't mean I'm going to give in". What a PITA. Maybe other people have a point. Maybe not, but it's probably worth considering - 'ya think?

Re:Unusual situation for MS

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm on crack.

Re:Unusual situation for MS

[kesuki]

That would be an urban legend. While some companies (sega's DreamCast, Microsoft X-box) have been sold below-cost, in general, most consoles sell for a profit, over production cost. The confusion in this is that there is development costs, including chip design, which in the case of the PS2 can run into astronomical amounts. However, over the cost of production, sony has been making money from day one on the sale of PS2. Nintendo has done the same with all it's consoles too. True, it often takes years and millions of console sales to recoup the intitial development cost. Often the game license fees end up being the major source of profit, however, extremely popular systems like the PSX and GBA can and do eventually recoup the entire development cost.
I can't remember what the average stats are, but most people who buy a video game console likely only end up buying 10 or fewer games over the lifespan of that console, so if the fee is $10 per game, they're only making $100 profit average above the profit they make on the console, so it's a loosing proposition to depend on game sales to make enough revenue to cover development costs.

Re:Unusual situation for MS

[DarkZero]

Yes, game consoles drop in price after a certain amount of time. However, that amount of time is at least a year, or more like three years in Sony's case (since they released the PS2 in Japan in 1999 and have only dropped the price for the first time right now). The GameCube and the X-Box were released SEVEN MONTHS AGO, making this a pretty unprecedented piece of console war history, unless you count the dying consoles that were gasping for air the second they were released.

Re:Unusual situation for MS

[RadioheadKid]

I guess I'm looking at this from the other end, instead of seeing Microsoft as undercutting to kill Nintendo and Sony, I see them as dropping price to stay afloat. Sony and Nintendo respond saying, alright, our loss will be less than yours anyways, we'll play along...

Re:Unusual situation for MS

[Ziviyr]

All manufactures rely on subsequent hardware revisions to reduce part count and minimize loss

I haven't seen Nintendo do this, I know Playstation 1 did, but thats about it. (and I think playstation was mediocre anyways, but thats another post)

MISquoting Yoda

[Anonymous Coward]

Going by the way he says that line in AotC, it would be:

"Begun this console war has."

The other way is not the way Yoda would have ever said it.

I still love my gamecube

[Sludge]

I bought my gamecube for one main reason-- party games. well, countless hours of playing Super Smash Brothers, Super Monkey Ball, Gauntlet: Dark Legacy, Sega Soccer Slam and "that cross-platform Bond game" have gone by, and I'm ready for the next round.

Most people's opinions of consoles after a purchase depend almost completely on what games they bought. Most people with a gamecube purchased Star Wars: Rogue Leader and maybe Waverace or something to that effect, perhaps with no extra controllers.

To me, buying a good game library is like designing a game (but with far fewer decisions): you need to have a cohesive strategy, or else you risk having a boring console. For me, it was multiplayer gaming. Satisfied, I am.

If anyone thinks that Nintendo's laid it's cards out on the table, I think they're gonna be surprised. The future shows a lot of interesting things: Mario Party 4, a new Mario Kart, a new Zelda game, a new Starfox game in the vein of Zelda64, something from Squaresoft in the way of Final Fantasy, Super Mario Sunshine, Bomberman (this month), more Resident Evil games from Capcom, Mario Golf/Tennis and of course, Metroid Prime, which is being developed by a friend of mine who is nothing more than completely convinced that it's going to be the game of the year.

Are you the only one blind to the fact that a PS1

[2nd Post!]

now costs less than some PS2 games?

There are several things that make a console:
Good price (check! Cheaper than a GBA)
Good software (check! Fun games, both old *and* new)
Good availability (check! The old PSX library plus PS2's PSX compatibility means lots of games available)

Graphics and sound are not enough for a good game experience :)

4 aces can still be beat without wilds

[SA3Steve]

A straight flush beats four of a kind...

A royal flush is just the highest type of a straight flush...so even with 4 aces, you lose to 4-5-6-7-8 of the same suit.

What about component in?

[Anonymous Coward]

I've yet to see a TV with more than one set of component in jacks. So, you must make a choice between DVD component in or game component in,
unless you use your Playsation as your DVD player. Then they both get to use it. No more chroma aliasing!

Re:What about component in?

[newbiescum]

Most of the HDTVs I've seen have more than one set of component in jacks, usually at least two. In any case, there are switch boxes for this, but they're pretty expensive. I wouldn't bother with component input from consoles to TV tho. The advantages compared to S-Video aren't that apparent to me especially if you're playing on a regular TV.

Re:What about component in?

[dalamcd]

I've yet to see a TV with more than one set of component in jacks.

Heh. I've got an XBox, a Gamecube and a PS2. The X-Box is currently sitting on by bed (and will remain there until I get Morrowind). It's broken: the first two controller ports are screwed. This is my second one I've had. The first one just broke down, and I got a big screen that said 'WARNING WARNING WARNING' (I swear, it actually said it three times in a bright red 48-point font) and then gave instructions in 4 different languages to call some Microsoft support number. The XBox's BSOD.
Anyway, that wasn't my point.

You can easily and cheaply have multiple consoles on a TV with just three AV ports. Go to your local Radio Shack and pick up some AV splitters. The ones with 2 female jacks and 1 male jack. Then you can plug your PS2 and Gamecube video into the females and slam the male into the back of your TV. Don't turn both on at once, though. It doesn't hurt anything, but it sure looks funky.

Even better, you can have a CD playing headlessly (just unplug the video from the splitter) on one system and play a game on the other. Used to play THPS3 on the PS2 and have Cake playing on the Dreamcast. Quite fun.

dalamcd

It's the money sense that's wrong.

[timbo_red]

MS's call would have to be $3, not $2.

Re:It's the money sense that's wrong.

[Anonymous Coward]

all depends on what the rules you're using for raising the bet

price vs quality

[kipple]

excuse me, but didn't those companies first sold their console at .. what, 600$? As a non-customer, I repeat to myself that they probably wanted to screw me up - because they wanted to make me pay for something that today has a value of 1/3 or less.

So they were screwing me 3 times.

No way I'm gonna trust them. If someone screws you once, it can do it again.

Oh well, probably this is easier to me since I don't like consoles. But still, does anyone else with a brain noticed that?

Re:price vs quality

[Paul Komarek]

I think that Nintendo opened at $200 and MS at $300. It's been so long since the PS/2 came out that I have no idea what it opened at, and by now you'd have to take inflation into account to make a valid comparison. ;-)

Early adopters always get screwed on price. It's their choice. The same is true in the PC market. Consider, for instance, the IDE hard drive market and the graphics card market.

-Paul Komarek

Re:price vs quality

[psxndc]

The only console to ever sell at $600 was the Neo Geo and that was because they literally put an arcade board into the console. Games were $200 each and the console sold abysmally. PS2 and XBox were both $299, Gamecube was $199. Those have been the most expensive to date.

As for hardware devaluation, look at a PC. The computer I bought 3 years ago for $3500 is literally worth about $500, and that's including the $250 speakers and all the RAM and HD space I added in afterwards. Consoles are generally a good value and don't depreciate at such a rate unless they're made by Sega. DC anyone? :-(. Over the course of a consoles life (4 - 5 years), you can expect the price to drop to approximately half of the original price. The only real exception is the gameboy. Every 3 years, they release a new version at approximately $80-$90, with the old versions selling for approximately $50. Not quite a 1/2 discount, but no one buys them once the new system is out anyway. There's no reason to since the new version plays all the old games, something that only the PS2 currently does

psxndc

Cost of X Box

[MountainLogic]

Open an X Box. Looks like about $360 even at $200K units per month pricing. When PC sales take off MS will get squeezed on HDD costs. Do the math, even if they sell 3 games per box they are in a workd of hurt. GCN & PS2 OTOH don't have to pay for the HDD and GCN doesn't even have to pay for DVD patents. Big N can keep cutting costs and still make money. At the end of the day it's profits not sales that matter.

wow MONEY SAVING $$$$

[Morgahastu]

Cool now its the same price as two games. what a fucking rip off.

How about instead of dropping the price of hardware they lower the price of games? No way I am paying $80 CND for a game that will be fun for less than a week.

Nothing makes me hurt inside more then going to a store and seeing GBA games for the same price. I can understand that some games have multi million dollar budgets, but game boy games don't. 4 guys in a basement could do a decent game in a few months.

Re:wow MONEY SAVING $$$$

[DarkZero]

I've never understood this argument. People are willing to pay roughly $40 CND/$30 USD for a DVD that is two hours long, but they think that $80 CND/$60 USD (again, roughly) for a game that's ten to twenty hours long, such as Ico, Devil May Cry, Metal Gear Solid 2, or Resident Evil, is a rip off.

If you're willing to pay $40 CND for two hours of entertainment, why aren't you willing to pay twice as much for five to ten times as much entertainment time?

Microsoft _does_ give XBox for free

[kesuki]

With a 24-month commitment to MSN dial-up access. Although you have to pay taxes, and be stuck with a crappy MSN dialup for 24-months.
At least they've got $200 off deals with major retailers like BestBuy. (I just got an offer in the mail last week, BTW)

Too late, last weekend I bought a ...

[wift]

PS/2. I couldn't resist the price and the sheer amount of games available. My 6 year old wanted a PS/2 more than the Gamecube anyway. So much for demographics.

I got the PS/2, Spiderman game, memory card, controller, dvd remote and extension cable for $325.

My son spent the weekend beating the crap out of me in Virtual Fighter 4.

Thank you Sony for this Father and son moment.

Nintendo is missing the boat

[Calacak]

Dropping the price to $149 is the wrong move for Nintendo. In the grand schema of things, $50 is not that much when you compare feature to feature what you are getting. Applying the extra money toward the Xbox/PS2 and you get a slew of other features, the GC you can buy an extra game.

Nintendo needs to take a page out of Microsoft's book and make use of the one monopoly they have: the Game Boy Advance.

Nintendo should have kept the $199 price and include a GBA pack-in. The general customer will see TWO systems for the price of a PS2 and Xbox, one game system which is portable, that can go on the family vacation and it has plenty of games to boot. The side effect is that you initially might sell less GC games, because the buyer might opt for the GBA (cheaper) stuff, but does it really matter? What matters is that a GC goes into another home, which spurs future sales of the games it can play.

It seems the $200 mark is the magic mark in the videogame industry. Anything below that doesn't really matter, because most customers start looking at content vs price. Historically, pack-ins sell more than stand alone purchases ($350 for a PS2/GT Combo easily outsold the play PS2 for $300 when it was available) because customers feel they are getting more for their money.

If Nintendo would sell a GC/GBA combo, include a killer title that would take advantage of both systems, GC sales would double overnight.

-Brian

Re:Nintendo is missing the boat

[Tim Browse]

Nintendo should have kept the $199 price and include a GBA pack-in. The general customer will see TWO systems for the price of a PS2 and Xbox, one game system which is portable, that can go on the family vacation and it has plenty of games to boot.

Or, in my case, I'd see the combo pack and think "What the hell? I've already got a GBA! Why should I pay for another one?!"

Pretty sure I wouldn't be alone in that.

Tim

Re:Nintendo is missing the boat

[Omerna]

I hope Nintendo read your comment, and wish that I had mod points.

And in response to the guy who replied... they can still sell a reduced price GC WITHOUT the GBA.

Re:News Update: HAAHAHAHAHA!

[Anonymous Coward]

Hahaha! I laughed hard at this one. I wondered if anybody remembered "Bob". How much money did Microsoft spend on that? Unbelieveable waste of money.

Would someone please...

[karlm]

Take that Xbox DVD remote and use that program for palm pilots that allows you to record and playback IR signals. Then please anonymously leak the recorded buttons on the web. This shouldn't break the DMCA, since it's information you're broadcasting, but that doesn't stop MS from filing suit.

I'm not sure if this would help or hurt MS, but it'd help consumers. (The XBox would be more competitive with a free DVD playing option, but ti wouldcut into sales for the DVD kit.)

Re:Would someone please...

[Anonymous Coward]

The DVD kit is not just a remote. It also includes the equally important IR receiver. Someone posting the ir signals won't do you any good.

OT: Recommendations?

[hey!]

At $150, I might actually buy one for the kids (aged 6 and 3). I'm thinking Santa might put one under the tree; any suggestions as to which console, taking into account the age of the kid and the fact that we have more computers in our household than people already?

Re:OT: Recommendations?

[Paul Komarek]

I don't even think there is a debate of which console is best for young kids. Get whatever Nintendo makes.

For adults with social skills that like to play games in the same room with friends, there's not much debate either. The gamecube still wins.

The other consoles seem to be targetted at the same audience as most PC video games. I think the description is something like "males between 15 and 35".

-Paul Komarek

Re:OT: Recommendations?

[ocbwilg]

At $150, I might actually buy one for the kids (aged 6 and 3). I'm thinking Santa might put one under the tree; any suggestions as to which console, taking into account the age of the kid and the fact that we have more computers in our household than people already?

If Santa is thinking about putting it under the xmas tree (as opposed to putting it under the maple tree out by the driveway) then he'd probably do well to wait until November to pick one up. By then whatever you decide to buy will probably be $50 cheaper and have even cooler games (or the console wars might have a definite winner).

More homo card games

[Anonymous Coward]

Straight poker is the real game.

PS2? Gamecube? Choices. (XBox doesn't count)

[Myxyplik]

I'm more tempted than ever to get a Gamecube now as I feel an itch for Resident Evil and its forthcoming sequels. Still, the PS2 offers much more selection as well as DVD capability. In any case, I'm holding out for that deep discount at eBay in the short term.;)

That's Nothing

[Anonymous Coward]

At Best Buy the XBOX is free with a 2 year subscription to MSN.
I hate MS.

Microsoft won't go lower...

[Eric Damron]

"...but Microsoft might decide to lower the price of the X-Box a little bit more in retaliation."

I don't believe that Microsoft will really care that Nintendo lowered their price. The Nintendo game cube does not come with a DVD player so it would be suicide to sell it for the same price as gaming platforms that do and Microsoft knows that.

Re:Microsoft won't go lower...

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft doesn't have to.
This weekend at Best Buy I saw the XBox being
given away for free with a 2 yr subscription to ???
Guess what
MSN.

ladys and gentleman, watch this

[tobiasb]

this could even improve sales of the gamecube, i think.. well it was only a question of time. http://62.26.119.213/BMM_GC_HACK.WMV

Re:ladys and gentleman, watch this

[Anonymous Coward]

Fake. Keep your eye on the shadow on the right hand side. You can tell where the edits are (during the cube splash screen and right before he opens it up at the end).

Metroid Prime?

[xenocide2]

Really? Thats good news to hear, altough I'm afraid that it may be a case of "No baby is ugly to a mother" syndrome. My understanding was that the developers were bought out for a million dollars; lock, stock and barrel. Now maybe I'm crazy, but just the physical capital alone is worth more than that (motion capture studio!). Honestly, I think that Nintendo wasn't happy with where Metroid was (or wasn't) going, and gave Mr. Spangelberg an ultimatum. On one hand, it can only be good for Metroid that Nintendo has decided to get more involved, but on the other, the fact that Nintendo bought them for such a small price probably means a delay to market to rework the game some.

But I truely hope your friend is right, and maybe he meant 2003 ;).

That's more accurate than you think...

[espilce]

Whether you intended it or not, that touches on the fact that neither sony nor Nintendo are angels.. There's already some foul play in this game. Remember Nintendo in the eighties? Inferior product, superior marketing, anti-competitive practices, and here we are today (Remember the Sega Master System? The Atari... Well, Atari? didn't think so).

Microsoft is like sony at the release of the playstation, except in that case sony brought some cards with them, rather than just a shitload of cash...

offtopic

[Anonymous Coward]

It would be nice if even half of the posts under this topic actually referred to the Gamecube. Save the Xbox vs. Sony crap for the other topic on here about the economics of the Xbox, or at least actually mention the GC in your posts.

And moderators, do you realize most of these are offtopic????

And another company benefits...

[Anonymous Coward]

There's another company that will benefit from the Gamecube price cut - ATI.

ATI is responsible for the Cube's graphics subsystem. They get fixed royalties on each Cube, regardless of its price.

Lower price -> more units sold -> more revenue for ATI.

Almost true

[funkmastermike]

[XBOX]...heavy box that looks a lot like a PC and would probably maim a small child if it fell off the top of a TV.

Nope. my 2 yr old niece survived that incident..

M$ hater at such a young age. Dont ya just love it?

bingo!

[RestiffBard]

this is the price I will pay for a console. I'm sorry I'm not shoveling out over 300 dollars for a toy. 150 sure. but not 300.

Blockbuster Video

[bobobobo]

Blockbuster is getting into the action with some deal where you pay a $19.99 fee that would cover unlimited rentals â" but only two at a time â" for a month. http://www.planetgamecube.com/news.cfm?action=item &id=3006

Netscape wasn't free

[ink]

Last time MS dropped their prices to match their competitor they nearly drove Netscape out of business.

A bit of revision going on there; Netscape never gave away Navigator until Microsoft made IE free. There was a gratis download for the education market, but you still had to pay for the browser otherwise.

Re:Netscape wasn't free

[WEFUNK]

A bit of revision going on there; Netscape never gave away Navigator until Microsoft made IE free.

You're right of course, although as a student (back in the day) I guess I never had to pay regardless. Technically I should have said "dropped their prices to beat their competitor", but really I was just trying to introduce my second point that overly aggressive "hypercompetition" can sometimes end up hurting consumer choice in the long run.

Avoid Dumping

[frankie_guasch]

It's not fair, and punished by law, to sell a product lower than its cost. This is called dumping and it's a way to kill competition.

Microsoft reminds of someone else who sells junk

[PsyQ]

"US$ 199 is my last word, and that's cutting me own throat!"

- C.M.O.T. Dibbler, slightly paraphrased

No hidden fees.

[Anonymous Coward]

The IR receiver contains a ROM. The ROM has such features as the DVD player software front end and AC3 decoder software. It's not just a remote control.

It also means that you don't pay for what you don't use -- meaning your gaming dollar goes towards gaming, and the marginal cost of 30$ US gets you a nice, high quality DVD player to go with your music/gaming box.

Why should MS eat the cost on something when they don't have to? That's a poor business practice -- one they avoid because they have a few people on staff who understand basic economics.

And as for the hardware being "crippled," it's not. It's designed exactly how they want it to be designed. If you personally want something that is ultraversitile, go and buy a PC. Microsoft thinks there's a demand for a piece of hardware with the feature set of the Xbox, even if you don't.

Re:No hidden fees.

[Anonymous Coward]

So, Apple selling iBooks with video cards that are crippled to only allow mirroring at 1024x768 is bad, but Microsoft releasing a console that had all the hardware required to play a DVD movie but has had it disabled is ok?

That front-end crap could have easily been built-in. A PIII can decode DVD in software, and it already has all the TV-out points.

Episode III: Attack of the Consoles

[Echo5ive]

I give you... Super Console Wars!

I really like the Super Star X-Box chasing the poor Blockade Game Boy in the opening scene.