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American Movie Execs Could Face Aussie Jails For Hacking
pegacat points to a story in the Melbourne Age which says that "American movie, recording and software executives could be arrested if they travel to Australia, could be prohibited from entering Australia, or could be extradited to face criminal charges if Californian Democrat congressman Howard Berman's copyright protection bill, which allows cracking
of computers, passes into law." That's because "Under section 9a of the Victorian Summary Offences Act (1966), 'a person must not gain access to, or enter, a computer system or part of a computer system without lawful authority to do so'. The penalty if convicted is up to six months' jail."
Let 'em hang at dawn!
One can only begin to imagine what this will bring - an amendment to the bill prohibiting extradition of media company execs to Australia.
So US American Movie Execs can face legal charges in Australia if a Bill is passed inj the US?
Saying Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.
A dingo's got my TV Exec.
Well, since a lot of movies are being made in Aussieland, maybe wel'll get to see a lot of visiting MIAA and RIAA people being thrown in the slammer!
Go Aussies Go!!!
or maybe they'll blackmail the Australian government into passing similar legislation, on the threat that there won't be any more films made in their country (so: bye bye dollars...)
If so, does it apply here ? Could the Australian authorities legitimately request the extradition of said media executives ?
This silly law would be worth it if I got to see Valenti behind bars.
Besides, the whole thing is rather childish. Heck, if the MPAA thinks they can "hack" me, they're welcome to try.
I want to see the nasty lashback programs that will be created if this bill goes through. Go ahead - hack my machine at your own risk.
And please, don't quote the Gandhi 'First, they laugh at you' thing again. Without a concerted effort from other Western nations (at a minimum), the closest thing this approximates is a soggy spitball and straw against a tank.
========================================
Death will come, and will have your eyes
-- Pavese
Wouldn't the bill be considered lawful authority? If Australian law can be applied to US citizens, it's likely (though I ain't anal) that US law would apply to those same citizens.
Then again, Australia has a long and distinguished record of being a penal colony for the British, maybe it's time to reinstate that concept and ship RIAA and MPAA execs, all of Arthur Andersen, and all Fortune 500 CEOs to a remote part of the Aussie outback. We can even turn it into a spectator sport - Survivor 2.0 - broadcasting it live with free Internet feeds from ROVs orbiting the area. "Will Bill Gates eat Steve Ballmer? Tune in tomorrow on Survivor 2.0, same time, same server!"
Money for nothing, pix for free
The UK has similiar legislation, and I'm pretty sure most of the rest of EU has similiar legislation.
Does this mean that movie executives will not be able to travel outside of the US at all?! Cool!
Yeah, so I'm a dreamer. I know full well that Tony "Grining Laky" Blair would never arrest an American movie executive for something like this. It would make George Bush (His pal) cry, and we can't have that!
A country that obeys the current law rather than change it for "special" people (you know, the ones with corporate money).
Weird.
"You know you don't act like a scientist, you're more like a game show host." Dana Barret
Australia has a law against hacking. Most countries do nowadays. America might pass a law that gives copyright holders the right to hack infringers in America. Like the earlier AC said, it isn't news that US law only applies the US, and breaking into Australian computers has to do with Australian law. Of course, there have been many recent Internet cases where laws from one country end up being misused and forced upon other countries, so who knows what might happen?
Those execs will probably have to stay in the
US, hacking is illegal in most countries,
not just in Australia.
God is REAL! Unless explicitly declared INTEGER
Same laws that prohibit entering and breaking in computer systems are in effect all around europe, and personally, I as a dutch person would love to see someone from the RIAA or MPAA hang in front of the new ICC in The Hague (That would be a laugh!)
DoS my gnut and come over if you dare!!!
muhahahahahahahahhahaahahahahahahahahaha!
What goes around comes around.
The just have to call them Illegal Combatants, then International Law doesn't apply. Thanks George!
Things are right, wrong, or grey.
If something is wrong don't do it. Take cracking or DoS attacks. Totally wrong. Lock them up and throw away the key.
But you start to legislate that it's okay for some users (I don't care how much money Hollywood has, they are still users just like you and me) to crack and DoS others then you make it grey. So the next time you catch a cracker you've got a much harder job dealing with him. And the next time it's harder still. And fairly soon cracking just becomes one of those things you live with.
At least the Aussies are doing their hardest to keep it black and white.
But I don't think it makes much differance. The US Government doesn't seem to give a toss about what the rest of the world thinks. As long as those campaign contributions keep pouring in nothing else matters. (Don't you just love democracy.)
Do you mind, your karma has just run over my dogma.
How much does it cost te set yourself up as a recording company in the USA? If you are a recording company and this law passes then presumably all you need to do is to have a suspicion that the RIAA is stealing your copyright material and away you go.
'a person must not gain access to, or enter, a computer system or part of a computer system without lawful authority to do so'
The whole POINT of the new bill is to GIVE them 'lawful authority to do so' so how does this law apply? I think they will need to make it more specific.
i know that if i go pay a man to kill my wife that i can be charged with murder.
if Rosen pays someone to hack for her why shouldn't she be responsible for it in the same fashion
those are the problems that can, and will arise more and more, the more we communicate and exchange globally. remember the Yahoo! lawsuit where a french court ordered them to block french people from access to neonazi sites? Same problem. In the us, there is no law that would block you from viewing nazi stuff (I'm not from the us, but I think that's covered by the 2nd amandment to the constitution), but in france, it's illegal. Or, the story about the italian police shutting down an us-based website because of blasphemous content. It's the same in realworld-land. say, you go to holland, smoke a joint in a coffeeshop, and then go to a land where the consumation of marijuana is illegal. eventhough you smoked it in holland, where you are allowed to, you can still get fined for drug abuse elsewhere. we live in a global word (sorry for that buzzing), with laws that apply to local groups. this will be a problem for quite some time. just think, there are probably lands where child porn is legal, or where critical writing about politicans is illegal.. all sorts of problems. the only solutions I can think of would be "one global law" (which is pretty much impossible before there is one global land), specific "net laws" that state that "analog laws" do not apply to the internet anymore, or anarchy. don't ask me what would be best, I'm a geek, not a philosopher. :)
Karma
shit, and i just upgraded to ELF.
The UK's Computer Misuse Act says much the same, but I suspect extradicion is out of the question, you could however arrest them as soon as they stepped foot on British soil (or possibly European soil if Eurowide arrest warrants come in to force).
I like the prospect of arresting any RIAA offical entering Europe.
Text of the UK act can be found here. This is incidently the law which has an addition pending atm, specificly making DoS attacks illegal, mentioned in an earlier /. article, which I can't be bothered to try and find.
Yeah, I had a sig once; I got bored of it.
Since the most important company information, and indeed in many cases the company assets are stored on electronic media, I'd say that cracking a company's computer network is a more intrusive crime than smashing in the door to their offices and stealing the hard-copy.
I don't think even our politicians in the UK are quite corrupt enough to consider passing a law to allow this kind of behaviour from corporates with big pockets. Hopefully it really is the sort of thing we'll only see going on in the US...
Code, Hardware, stuff like that.
The only thing record companies could do is go to court and ask for an allowance to ask the police to please hack computer X, which would not only cost a fortune, but also take a veeery long time, considering the amount of red tape involved.
Karma
if the bill (?) passes in the US who knows, john "loves the bush" howard might want to change our laws so they can advantageous to american business.
It should be from the butt-butt-butt dept.
I expect that bad things happen in Aussie jails...
"G'day, mate! Wouldya like jelly or syrup?"
(((shudder)))
Talisman
"Study your math, kids. Key to the universe." -The Archangel Gabriel
There's no way that anyone famous or powerful would go to jail. These people are above the law. Halle Barry did a hit and run, Winona will probably walk on the shoplifing, Lizzie Grubman has yet to do any time, OJ got away with murder, etc.
There's no need to. If you have proof that a computer is used to infringe copyrights, then under the laws of several European countries, you can ask the judge for the right to destroy or seize the computer.
If you don't have proof, you're not likely to get anything out of a judge except an invoice. I would hope that even under that silly US law, the record company would need to have proof before hacking into someone's computer.
...for making the bloody Americans realise that they can't make their laws apply worldwide.
I'm moving to Australia as soon as I can - they evidently have clue.
You've successfully proven that US Law doesn't apply in australia. What next? News Flash! Legos can be used to build things! C'mon, who's picking these stories?
Technically speaking, if the law passes in the US, it would make hacking legal for the companies. Since most corporations have to be sued as an entity but not the individual, I doubt this will work on studio executives. I could imagine that if a studio hacked an Austrialian computer system, then the studio would be help liable and could be technically sued for infringing upon the rights of Austrailians. I fail to see how you could implicate a studio executive unless they specifically authorized it themselves, then they might be held liable. I guess complicated laws are why we lawyers, right?
"Under section 9a of the Victorian Summary Offences Act (1966), 'a person must not gain access to, or enter, a computer system or part of a computer system without lawful authority to do so'. The penalty if convicted is up to six months' jail."
and"...if Californian Democrat congressman Howard Berman's copyright protection bill, which allows cracking of computers, passes into law."
Well, it seems to me that if the American bill does become a law then it will not be a long journey to find sympathy among the Australian government. Keep in mind that Australia and the US have good relations, particularly when it comes to law enforcement. The pasing of this law by the American Government may be all the "lawful authority" that the Australians require. The important thing is to write your congressman and senators, to anyone you can. Point out that this law would be like allowing business owners to booby-trap their places of business. It would also open a loophole by which ANY vicious hacker would gain the "right" to viciously hack, simply by releasing an album on his own label and then "finding" mp3's being shared on peer-to-peer.
WHY NOT SIMPLY ENFORCE THE CURRENT LAWS?????
I can't understand what the f*ck is wrong with these people. The copyright law exists today. Why not use the police to track down and prosecute all the criminals on napster clones, gnutella net, whatever net?
What is the problem? No matter how much it's encrypted in the end your machine connects to another machine and download the copyrighed material so you can always trace people commiting crime. When a million or so people a day does this kind of crimes the police should be busy doing something about it.
Does this mean that they'd have to limit who they 'hack'?
If they can't attack citizens of countries that the amendment does not have juristiction over does that mean they'd have to check into where they come from?
What about if I use a system in America to do my downloading? I'm in Australia, but the system is in America... how would that play out?
on a side note, because of the prices of cable/adsl here not many people can download vast amounts. Maybe if I sell that spare kidney I have I might be able to get adsl.
Be you Admins? nay, we are but lusers!
In the UK conspiricy to commit a crime often carries a longer sentence than the crime.
(a crime must be commited before you can be tried for conspiricy , freedome of speech and all that).
I assume that AUS is simila seeing as it was collonial, and probably adopted quite a few english laws
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
I envision Steve, the Crocodile Hunter, sneaking up on a Recording Exec and sticking his thumb up his bum hole. Ah, this one's angry! Look at his markings. He's a beaut'. Now ordinarily we would let him go. But, as it turns out this is one of the most dangerous creatures in the world. Up there with Lawyers and US Congressmen. No, instead, we're going to take this one back with us. We'll put him in a nice safe place where he can listen to Britney Spears all day long.
Someone hates these cans.
This isn't the first case where copyrights versus consumer rights have been clashed (often with the consumers winning):
1) Jukebox CD burner machines are legal
2) A small video chain wins case with respect to rental vs retail DVD prices
3) Use of Mod chips in Playstations ruled to be legal
4) DVD zoning currently under investigation by the local consumer protection watch dog
5) Watch this space.... (probably a few more)
Is there something culturally different between the two continents?
Or is it that some people in Australia believe that all this extra copy protection (real and legal) does nothing for the problem and harms the legitimate users?
[Coward hiding under his rock]
ahahahah
apparently they simply inform the DoJ that they are going to do it, and if they don't hear a "no" within 7 days, they go for it.
...contains a similar clause
I'm not sure but in the UK we have The Computer Misuse Act - I wonder whether such actions would also contravene UK law?
I dont want to be trolling, but come to think of it most countries have laws which Prohibit breaking into computer networs. I cant seem to get the point in this story. Of course of you crack a EU computer, you will be punished as soon as you go to EU. Whats happening to slashdot.. This is no news! Whats Next "Stealing Illegal in germany....Murder illegal in sweden..."
My Aurora : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o91ZsGwJYyg
FB : https://www.facebook.com/TanveersPhotography
...is how they are supposed to know if you're from the US or not? Last time I checked, US laws didn't apply for us Finns.
(Of course! They could use the nifty patented geo-dns-lookup-thingy that was discussed here some time ago!)
And why is this news anyway? US law != World law, no matter how much you'd want it to be. (I sure don't. I don't want to go to work knowing that every other person that i pass on the street is carrying a Magnum.) It's bloody common sense for crying out loud! Laws passed in one coutry only applies to that country. Soon just about every country has anti-hacking (or cracking, to be correct) laws, which means **AA execs could get arrested if they go abroad. If I hear **AA execs are coming to Finland after they start cracking, by god I'll give the police a call!
In the case of LoTR, the dude behind it, Peter Jackson, just happens to be a New Zealander. It's made here because Jackson is doing it at home instead of overseas.
BTW: Weta Studios are using Linux - oooeee I mentioned Linux on /.
You make the mistake of thinking you can educate the fundamental stupidity out of people. You can't.
Another poster in this forum suggested that Canadian extra-territoriality law has some relevance (as a Canadian, I'm inclined to agree) -- to wit, our laws to do with your Cuba embargo (Helms-Burton being the most recent example) specifically hold the American act and its provisions to be invalid in Canada. I imagine the Aussie law to be much the same sort of thrust. Then again, how many of you Americans are aware of the Canadian law? Do you know how many cases have been brought to trial? The number of cases can be counted on one hand with a couple of fingers missing. And, truthfully, how many of you could care less?
Anyway, this is all a moot point. All this talk is not going to force US-based 'meeja' executives to resort to e-mails and conference calls only, no matter how much the constituency here wants to see it done. Unfortunately.
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Death will come, and will have your eyes
-- Pavese
Steve White says the Berman bill is "stupid and counterproductive", and he believes it will lead to an online arms race as PC owners and the networks seek to thwart the efforts of copyright holders.
Yeah, they'll have to get through my firewall and figure out my SSH passwords first. Do they have a hope in hell? How exactly do they intend getting access to computer systems. Realistically, a lot of home computers (the non-geek ones) don't even have any form of remote access software running (at least not until MS convinces them to "upgrade" to XP).
Follow me
This may come as a shock to you, but the US is not the only government in the world; so if Australia (or any other country) doesn't want to recognize the new-found authority of the **AA's as "lawful", they don't have to.
If you don't have anything nice to say, shut up you stupid prick.
They want to be able to do this even without any evidence for their claims.
I see this bill passed before November. If US government can close their eyes over much more serious issues (ask Iraqi and Yugoslavian children about depleted uranium warheads), they won't even blink because of few computers being 'collateral damage'.
Australian or laws in any other western country are of no importance - money influence will always prevail.
Honestly this get modded up ? Its just flag waving neaderthal rubbish. Do you seriously think that invading countries makes you look anything more than a fool ?
And remember when it comes to those Media execs.... the biggest and baddest of them is Murdoch... and guess where he comes from ?
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
Yes, and they can be exicuted if they traveled to China.
But, they won't be.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
G'day, Stor frum Oztraya 'ere.
Dunno what you boys are on about but I reckon we should do what we usually do and give 'em a mighty good kick up the bum, Simpson's style.
Cheers
Stor
"Yeah well there's a lot of stuff that should be, but isn't"
For the record, in 1732 England opened Georgia as a penal colony.
I am a Karma Library.
The Australian federal government is currently controlled by the Liberal Party, which is sort of like the Republicans except without the Christian Coalition. I.e., a socially conservative, pro-corporate party. In addition, the Prime Minister loves Bush and would do anything for him, from unconditionally committing Australian troops to any U.S. military campaign to neglecting to raise agricultural trade issues when visiting the U.S. If the U.S. asked him to, he would push hard to indemnify MPAA/RIAA cracking/DoS attempts in Australia, under the guise of "protecting movie industry investment" or "harmonising computer crime laws".
The upper house is dominated by the Liberals, but they don't have a majority; the balance of power is held by the fashionably left-leaning Democrats, who would probably oppose a Bermanesque law here. Though if the Labor opposition (think like Tony Blair's mob in the UK) is persuaded to get behind it, the Democrats are irrelevant.
The way I see it, the Australians are calling the game right. What the law is essentialy allowing is vigilante vandalism within the US. It's the same as if the MPAA/RIAA sent goons over to whack your home entertainment system with baseball bats.
Now even if this were allowed in the USA, it ain't allowed in Australia*. Even if the target is an American, as soon as the goons start vandalising Australian property, they're subject to Australian jurisdiction. Their corporate masters could aso be charged for giving the orders ("taking out a contract").
More power to the Australians. For a good measure, they can add a clause that the execs should be rolled naked in jellyfish prior to sentencing.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
It's not exactly a threat. Maybe there wouldn't be this sort of thing if the crazy Americans stopped voting in looney's who think legistlation such as this will solve some companies woes.
At last we have come up with a proper use for the camps at Woomera. Instead of locking up the asylum seekers we can put the execs there when their companies hack our machines.
The conduct complained of here would also violate computer crime laws in most states. Thus, while Valenti might avoid federal prison for violation of the CFAA, he might still have to face charges and related civiil actions for violation of State laws in Florida.
Absent an express preemption clause, the bill would not have the desired effect for its authors -- and if they added an express preemption clause, the bill might become defective as unconstitutional under a host of theories.
I think the whole of the US actually has a problem realising that US draconian laws only apply to the US (thank god).
Lawful authority means lawful in terms of jurisdiction. USA != Australia, therefore if the law doesn't overlap (as it doesn't in this case), it's not lawful. No-one will read this post unfortunately, but the courts here in Oz do not always follow governmental preference. Witness Mabo for an example. If they don't like the law, think it's unjust, or think it's encroaching on their territory, they get pretty pissed.
This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time.
Jack Valenti being gang-raped by a pack of Aussie inmates would be so damn funny. Better stock up on KY jelly, Jack.
I suppose that hacking is effectively industrial espionage or spying, which would allow offshore activities to be classed as crimes, but I doubt anyone will get prosecuted! I hope they do though!!!
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
Since when do American citizens leave America and goto other countries, let alone aussie.
I thought most Americans rarly even left their own state let alone the actual country.
So the chance of a movie exec going to aus combined with the chance there is any evidence linking this exec to an alledged hacking multiplied by the chance Howard would allow their great buddys the Americans to goto jail.
About 0%
Aus would rather jail a million boat people than one ameircan Exec, jailing the exec would prolly be worse PR too.
However, I think putting media moguls in prison is a great idea.
So, on with the madness.
Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
I'll own up to the horrible truth, I'm not American.
You can have a cuban cigar here in the UK, no problems.
Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it, those who have no history are American.
Hillary and Jacko's personal Congressmen would stand for such a thing? About as likely as we are to see the principles in Enron and Global Crossing (too many high political ties to both parties) to get the ride in the police car the Adalphia and WorldCom people got.
It's not just how much money you give, it's WHO you make rich (Clinton SecTreas Robert Rubin in Enron/Citigroup, and DNC chair Terry McAuliffe in Global Crossing).
Remember the 21st Century theroy of American Law: Law applies merely to we consumers (called peasants in earlier times)...
Who's to say that the Australian arm of the RIAA/MPAA won't just buy their own version of the Berman bill...
Given how much stupid legislation has passed concerning the `Net in Australia already (they seem to be going for Comstock Laws), I'm not that sure that such a thing WONT happen...
Corporatism != Free Market
I vote we start a slush fund to send all RIAA and MPAA mangement to Aussieland..just to see the expression on their faces when they go to jail..
I got $5 is anyone else in?
Don't Tread on OpenSource
Sklyarov was arrested for doing reasonable things that could possibly be beneficial towards end users. He was not invading any individuals privacy, destroying any data, or even accessing someone elses computer.
What those executives would be in the dock for are those same charges. They propose to 'get inside' peoples computers, destroy data and spy on individuals.
It is not just in Australia that those things are currently illegal. I am pretty sure that they are against the law in most of Europe as well.
Even if they haven't done those things yet, can't they be charged with some sort of criminal conspiracy?
I'll see your Constitution and raise you a Queen.
Because Aussie gaols can give them what some of them deserve...
A favorite trick in Aussie gaols, involving a victims anus (a favorite target in any gaol/jail I guess:), is to insert pvc tubing into the victim, then insert barbed wire into the pvc tubing.... then the tubing gets removed, leaving behind the bare barbed wire inside the execs arse. At which time, the barbed wire is absolutely wrenched outa there with all the force required, with the aim of ultimately causing a condition where a bodily organ exits the body through an orifice (I forget what this is called). Of course, the givers of pain will always settle for just extreme pain. ; )
I rekon this could be just retribution for trying to fuck over young Jon for "hacking", then turning around and doing the real thing.
So please, hack, and come over and throw a shimp on an Aussie barbie.
War crimes, torture, lies, illegal spying... Would someone give Bush a blowjob, already, so he can be impeached?
Indeed, this would also be illegal in the UK under Section 1 of the 'The Computer Misuse Act 1990' ;
0 01 8_en_1.htm
(1) A person is guilty of an offence if--
(a) he causes a computer to perform any function with intent to secure access to any program or data held in any computer;
(b) the access he intends to secure is unauthorised; and
(c) he knows at the time when he causes the computer to perform the function that that is the case.
(2) The intent a person has to have to commit an offence under this section need not be directed at--
(a) any particular program or data;
(b) a program or data of any particular kind; or
(c) a program or data held in any particular computer.
(3) A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months or to a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale or to both.
http://www.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts1990/Ukpga_1990
As for the possibility of Tony Blair (UK Prime-Minister), some how excusing this, that is not likely. There is plenty of separation between the UK Judiciary and Politicians. UK Judges are not elected but appointed and once appointed are nearly impossible to remove. UK Judges also seem to regularly take delight in giving politicians the finger, when the latter attempt to step on their toes. i.e. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2162940.stm
GOOD!
While it may not be practical to extradite the executives, would it not be possible for a court to find the Company guilty and freeze or sequester the assets of the Australian (or whichever country) office/subsidiary?
...for making all those crap films/music in the first place.
Anyway, this is great if it means that they can not leave the US for fear of being prosecuted!
P2P is the greatest thing that came out of the net these last years, those guys should be shot just for trying to stop it.
Anyway, whatever they try will just makes the movement stronger, and in a few years, we will be able to download any film or music from the net. Everybody will have 500Gb disks shared with broadband...
Black holes occur when God divides by zero.
First of all, the entire notion that execs will be rounded up for their cracking efforts is Harry Knowles level fanboy fantasy. The article might as well be "Darth Maul can beat Count Dooku in a lightsaber battle" for all the fact and realistic thought put into it. Too bad there's no -1, Absurd moderation for this at the top level. And by the way - That ridiculous piece of legislation will never even make it out of committee. Why keep whipping yourselves into a frenzy over it like it's impending law? The alarmists really do seem to run the show around here.
I prefer that we use the term pro-citizen. Citizen sounds like it has much more rights than consumer.
First time some hotshot businessman gets arrested/convicted there, it'll just be an excuse for Dubya to add Australia to the Axis of Evil and start bombing the hell out of them. You may think I'm trolling/joking, but I'm not. We don't take kindly to other countries locking up our rich folks. You know that Australia would have to either back down real quick or get its ass kicked.
Mad Max 4 is out of the question now
If voting were effective, it would be illegal by now.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Who has no clue of the morass his bill would cause. What this guy simply doesn't understand is that if this bill passes, it's open season for hacking...and the hackers know 10,000 times that of the RIAA and MPAA'S 'experts'. This is yet another example of the technologically clueless setting technology policy. What this guy is doing is setting up a technology 'cold war'... You'd think that they would have figured out by now that the cold war was a failure...but I guess you can't teach lessons to the stupid.
Do people really think that the CEOs would go to jail?
What's more likely is that the well paid technicians that actually do the attacks for the RIAA and MPAA would be the ones indicted. Of course, I bet those folks would be smart enough to never to go to Australia, which doesn't sound very good from recent /. stories.
** Windows has detected a mouse movement.
** Please restart Windows so changes can take effect.
ROTFLBTCASTC
He saw some dirty arabs and fired. Too bad it was just some friendly kurds, BBC reporters and his fellow cowboys.
Let me get this straight. You automatically commit a crime in Australia if you live in another country where the offense is not illegal? That sounds like an interesting way of doing things. This article is more or less flamebait, I'm not sure why it was posted.
"Under section 9a of the Victorian Summary Offences Act (1966), 'a person must not gain access to, or enter, a computer system or part of a computer system without lawful authority to do so'. The penalty if convicted is up to six months' jail."
A. Are we sure that RIAA, etc. would be violating this Australian law by DoSing a file sharer in Australia? -- Here's the scenario: 1. RIAA goon searches for title of copyrighted work. 2. File sharers, including one in Australia, happily and consentually transmit search results. 3. RIAA goon reads search results. 4. RIAA goon requests download of file from the Australian. 5. Australian happily and consentually sends it. 6. RIAA goon listens to it; determines it is the copyrighted work. 7. RIAA goon DoSes the Australian file-sharer. -- Where in there did the RIAA goon "gain access to, or enter, a computer system"?
Hey, I think this proposed U.S. bill stinks, but I'm not sure the Australian law is adequate protection against it.
B. If the Australian law does protect file sharers in Australia, that's great, but it would do nothing to protect file sharers in the U.S., which is the only target of the proposed bill anyway. Isn't it relatively simple for the RIAA goon to check the IPs he's planning to DoS and then only pound the ones that reside in the U.S.? And, anyone (residing anywhere) who shares files off a machine in the U.S. is acting in the U.S. and is subject to U.S. law (or lawlessness).
Berman's bill is bad, bad news.
"We reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals." --The American President (20.1.2009)
I think it would really screw these people if we could just get Bermuda, Barbados and the Cayman Islands to enact some kind of similar law targetting entertainment execs. The country that contains their assets could then cease them, and I'm sure cayman jails are pretty nasty.
I hate to burst everyone's bubble, but when was the last time a *AA exec hacked your boxen? They may have told someone under them to do it, but execs themselves have not the time, the knowledge, or even the desire to do such dirty work themselves. Short of conspiracy or similar charges, they will not be held responsible under this law. The programmer is the one who needs to fear. So if you are a coder working for a big bad company who tells you to hack an Aussie computer, either refuse to do so (you prolly should anyway...) or forget those vacation plans. Then again, how do you trace back who in the company actually did the hacking? This is just fluff people. Not a single high profile case will ever come of this... Sorry to be killjoy.
ever note how hoe mnay americans call for law & order, but are willing to walk away from it when it suits their purpose?
All of a sudden, a whisper travels ever so lightly on the breeze. You listen closely, and you hear the sounds of US legislation being debated.
h /c rabVsPipe.mpg
This shit's funny. A gun from a GI Hoe got confiscated at an airport. Congressmen are lobbying to wear vigilante cyber-berets. I LIKE the pace aussie rights are being suppressed compared to yours, my American friends. It's the difference between getting your arse caught in the bath plughole, and the way a crab gets sucked into a hole in a trans-continental undersea pipeline.
http://www.punchbaby.com/media/laters/clips/ouc
http://pcblues.com - Digits and Wood
1.-(1) A person is guilty of an offence if-
he causes a computer to perform any function with intent to secure access to any program or data held in any computer;
the access he intends to secure is unauthorised; and
he knows at the time when he causes the computer to perform the function that that is the case.
(2) The intent a person has to have to commit an offence under this section need not be directed at-
any particular program or data;
a program or data of any particular kind; or
a program or data held in any particular computer.
Note : The link isnt to the full act itself, but to the excerpted version provided by JANET/CERT as a referance for academic institutions in the UK with lots of nice hyper links. If you want the real Mcoy in one big lump it can be found here
Maybe they'll let em go with a little booting.
They [RIAA/MPAA] are using copyright as an argument to introduce Berman's law. However they don't need to prove anything; it gives them a blanket immunity.
Having a good 'motivation' is no defence against breaking the law, indeed it would make the prosecution easier because one of the three pillars (means, motive & oppportunity) of a successful prosecution is handed over on a plate.
The US would turn to their usual tactic of putting economic pressure against Australia until the Aussies decide to change their law!
I can take pride in the fact that the Australian courts have in recent times said "no, I don't think so" to a lot of the bullshit that the xxAA organisations have tried to foist upon us re: DRM. Unfortunately our Prime Minister (who we recently re-elected because he distracted us with the whole "Tampa crisis" and the "shadow" of illegal immigration) rarely takes time to remove his lips from the arses of the United States and US corporations in order to make such an independent decision, which would require vision (and more importantly - balls). So I'm not holding my breath for something from government protecting consumer rights. The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC), who handles most consumer complaints, is unfortunately pretty much a toothless tiger. They still haven't got Telstra into line over their virtual monopoloy of the telecommunications market, which is responsible for high prices (of Telstra and their competitors, who use Telstra's backbone and hence must pay their so-called "wholesale" prices) of local calls and DSL.
----------
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is no longer our friend.
The RIAAs and MPAAs plans were to use DOS-attacks on the sites/networks which (they claim to) distribute their copyrighted content. Flooding the networks with faked mp3 or bringing servers down to their knees with faked download requests isn't breaking into systems. Not that i would consider waging DOS-wars over the internet a good thing, and yeah, i'd love to see some music exec locked away in a stinky jail (although that will never happen).
But wouldn't the proposed US-law only allow the copyright-holders to use DOS-attacks, and aren't DOS-attacks considered a lesser offense in most countries (especially if you don't break into thousends of foreign systems to misuse them but buy the necessary bandwith)?
Also who would sue those execs and set the lawyers and the police into motion to catch that evil hacking RIAA-exec? The owner of that site who probably did infringe on copyrights? The provider who only thinks about business and anyway doesn't like customers which use more bandwith than others who pay the same?
It'd be better to use political leverage: since every action has to be allowed by US-officials those officials (and thereby the USA government) can't free themselves from the responsibility for such attacks. Thus other countries can respond politically. That would be more of a threat, if those countries took it upon them to make the internet a place that can work without the US-backbones.
"By the way if anyone here is in advertising or marketing... kill yourself." -- Bill Hicks
Make a small bitmap file. Use a hex editor, if you must, but call the image your own, copyrighted work. Then put it on your website, with an EULA stating that the visitor agrees that the image must be deleted from the visitor's machine within 5 minutes from loading of the page. Write some program that logs visitor ip's, waits for 7-10 minutes, and launches an attack, if the visitor ip is "good", whatever that means. If you have a large enough site, some representative of the abovementioned corporations will certainly visit it sooner or later. And, hurrah, you have the right-to-attack.
:) And make sure the EULA is at least 3-4 pages long, with all sorts of legal bullshit on it. It has to work!
Just prey this bill gets passed
It is no wonder the USA is so opposed to the International War Crimes Court, the international ban on land mines, and joins somalia as one of the only nations *not* to ratify the Convention on the Rights of the Child.
Subverting emerging democracies, funding, training and arming terrorists, providing safe havens for the world's worst criminals, running drugs, raping children, defrauding pension funds, bombing prisoners, 'dissapearing' many thousands of people within the US and many tens of thousands of people outside of the US. is all part of a days work for the new emerging world order.
To me it's hardly a sustainable plan, but then maybe they know things I don't know.
maybe i am just too prepared to think the unthinkable.
I used to have a better sig than this, but I got tired of it
What if the P2P hackers (coders) were to include a clause into the EULA about no profit organization can use the software, make it a license violation if the mpaa or the riaa use the software. I'm not saying it's a solution, however, it may buy some time. That or we can pay the kids at their isp to null route them into an intranet
--fetch daddy's blue fright wig, i must be handsome when i release my rage
I love you Australia.
Thank you.
--------
Nothing can be done before the tremendous power!
RabidComics
Dear [Michael Eisner]:
You have been selected as the winner of this month's fabulous appliance giveaway! You may claim your free Koala-brand washer/dryer set, Antarctic Refrigerator or Shrimp-On-The-Barbie barbecue set! Your plane ticket for coming to claim this prize is included in this envelope. Simply fly to Australia round-trip on us, and be available for us to capture on film as we photograph the winners*.
Don't delay - act now to claim your prize.
Sincerely,
Australian Bureau of Law Enforcement and Consumer Marketing
*In front and side shots
It's rare that you're presented with a knob whose only two positions are Make History and Flee Your Glorious Destiny.
of this country. They have really strange Congressmen and Senators. Yet these people get voted in. Says a lot about that state doesn't it. They will probably vote on this anonymously, so it can get passed, much the DCMA. What we need to do in this country setup some serious lobbist how can fight on the hill with the best of them. Give the computer hobbist and researches the rights our capital is trying to take away from us.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
So what happens if our government refuses to extradite the Movie Execs? I assume we have extradition treaties with Australia, what sort of recourse do they have?
am I the only one tickled to death by the posters who are amazed that US law does not apply in other sovereign countries ? I can't stop laughing, I'll have a fit...
As long as we have a Congress (tm) that can be purchased with campaign contributions, we are not going to see the end of inappropriate corporate actions.
Corporations are in it for the money, pure and simple. Since they are recognized as having individual's rights, they are given far too much leeway in their behavior. Who goes to jail? Some pigeon. And you and I, the American (consumer) are left holding the (empty) bag.
The U.S would *never send corp. execs to Austrailia to be imprisoned or even sternly spoken to. Remember, this is the one country that 'excused' itself from they Kyoto Treaty (reducing pollution). GW said it'd be 'bad, bad bad' for the enconomy. 'We' also spoke out against the world's war crime tribunal. Why? 'Cause the good 'ol US of A knows it would be a prime target for the court. The prez don't wanna go.
Easy as pie. You gots the gold, you make the rules. You don't play by the rules and you gots the gold? Make more rules, make more gold.
A bit ahead of their time, no? Surely this had more to do with forced physical access than network cracking. Wasn't it 1969 when the first two computers were networked?
--- "1.21 Jigawatts!" -Doc
What if an author of GPL copyleft software thinks microsoft is reusing and redistributing GPL his software? Is he then allowed under this law to crack into the computers at microsoft in order to determine if it is rightfully so? Or does the law specifically only allow copyright owner with congressmen in their pocket and tons of money?
Don't we have better things to use taxpayers money on! (In the US and Austrailia) I can think of a few things i.e. ad free slashdot!! :-)
We all know that these execs aren't to be trusted in the first place, but to give them power to put files on "cracked" computers then scream for litigation is insane. ...but im sure they can have anyone silently killed anyways they dont need a silly copyright law to mess with people.
"Democrats want to save you from yourself.
Republicans want to save themselves from you."
--i forget
The article mentions an organization in austrailia known as ARIA, the Austrailian Recording Industry Association, that "may seek discussions with the federal government if Berman's bill is adopted in the U.S."
.au on the end of its address. There's been more than a few good things to come from down under into Hollywood. Not sure about the music guys tho - the only notable austrailian bands I can think of offhand that have had any kind of success in the US are Chumbawumba and Men At Work. Doesn't seem like much of a loss to them if you ask me - though some of those bands that do "world tours" might have to divert themselves to New Zealand or Antarctica (wouldn't that be fun?).
From the look of things, it looks like the recording industry is waiting to see how the bill goes through legislation in the U.S. before persuing it elsewhere. They might be stupid enough to pick cyber-fights with thousands of hackers using DOS-attacks, but they're probably not that stupid as to alienate themselves from a country like Austrailia. So in the worst-case scenario where ARIA tells the RIAA to jam their thumbs up their bum holes, we would have a situation where the individual industries would have to make a choice - cut themselves off from Austrailia, never ever traveling there or having any sort of business dealings there, or find a better solution to their problem.
At least the movie execs might think twice before DOSing anything with a
Just another freak in the freak kingdom.
Under section 9a of the Victorian Summary Offences Act (1966).
Does that mean that the law about computers was made back in 66? that really shows some foresight on the part of the law makers, not to mention some amazing ability at future prediction, when you think that even the concept of a computer was not really mainstream.
it's called race discrimination.
or at least political discrimination.
I think there's somthing to do with human rights in here but i can't quite work out what.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
I love this quote in the article about the proposed bill:
"What appears to be proposed is the computer equivalent of breaking into someone's house who you think has stolen some of your possessions to get them back with legal impunity, even if it turns out you broke into the wrong house"
My neighboor is a healthcare lawyer and informed me that if you keep your medical records on your machine and someone hacks it, its a minimum of 5 years in jail for violating privacy laws. So let them play there little hacks and then nail them for tampering with a system with medical records. The judge will support the privacy laws first. The doctors have bought more poloticians then hollywood/riaa.
--- Always remember. 99.36% of all statistics are inaccurate.
The last (known) time the CIA kicked out the democratically elected government in Australia for annoying the USA.
Might want to ask Gough Whitlam about what happens if an Aussie PM does something the US doesn't like.
You guys should look up the "Cybercrime act" which is far more detailed and specifically aimed at computer related issues.
Basically anything they do to a computer in Australia without authority and causes damage leaves them open to some sort of prosecution.
It also has provisions to state that people commiting the act against an Australian computer from a country where 'hacking' is not illegal will also be subject to this Australian act.
To be prosecuted by the act the person who commited the act must enter some part of the Commonwealth of Australia, (land or sea)
It gets complicated but if you sit in the US and hack an Australian computer and you then come to Australia you can be prosecuted.
Oh and Australia does have a full extradition treaty with the US. Also our legal system is far more efficient that the US system.
Oh and the American Military to way too imcompetant to invade Australia.. Its not how big your defence force is, its more to do with how smart/cunning your defence force personel are.
If we're gonna start being that anal about laws.. Dubya better keep his ass out of Australia, or we'll chuck him in jail for failing to prevent the deaths of every person executed while he was governer of Texas.
Clinton was here a few months ago as a private citizen, ie, no diplomatic immunity, and I didn't see him getting booked for failing to prevent the execution of an Australian in about 1994.
They don't have to hack your firewalled OpenBSD box, but rather the P2P network you trade music on. What if they logged onto opennap with a million "songs" full of garbage data? If some were titled "oops I did it again" and they did it again with a farm of bogus clients, they could make your P2P system worthless. Don't be so cocky.
Record and movie execs have gotten foreign nationals invovled with DeCSS, who have not even stepped foot in the US, arrested and brought over here for trial for violating the DMCA.
If this stupid "rich campaign contributors are allowed to hack you for no good reason" bill passes, I hope that the Aussies bust the media companies, just so that these execs get a taste of their own medicine.
Of course, they'll probably just "donate" money to some powerful person over there to avoid this situation, but it is nice to dream...
"You spoony bard!" -Tellah
Am I the only one who noticed that the bill was from 1966? Typo or hoax? I dunno.
When flying into the country, and the customs man asks if you have a criminal record, ask innocently, "Is that still a requirement?"
Infuriate left and right
"Free Dimitri!"
Looser!
Just a quick slightly offtopic comment, but I dont think many countries are likely at all to either arrest or extridite the execs... BUT, is there millage to be had in ISPs sueing the companies for consuming bandwidth that they have to pay for? I know if I ran an ISP and my bandwidth bills went through the roof I'd be sueing the company responsible, if I could at all.
Just a thought.
The law as written didn't even allow for a "no". Just the 7 days. So if the DoJ says no you can tell them to screw themselves, and still be within the law. Berman is slowly steering us towards anarchy with this vigilante law.
Argh. I mean bill. Not law. Damn.
Blah blah 2 minutes blah blah blah. Silly slashdot.
it really doesn't matter what the moderators deem insightful, the whole thing is just noise, anyway. let's take a look at mr. valenti's success record (courtesy of David Isenberg's SMART newsletter www.isen.com):
QUOTE OF NOTE: Jack Valenti
"I say to you that the VCR is to the American film
producer and the American public as the Boston strangler
is to the woman home alone."
Testimony of Jack Valenti, President of the Motion Picture
Association of America, before the U.S. House of
Representatives Subcommittee on Courts, Civil Liberties and
the Administration of Justice, Monday, April 12, 1982, see
http://www.cryptome.org/hrcw-hear.htm for complete
transcript.
I just get a warm feeling all over when other countries(or whatever the case may be) effectively point out the stupidity in actions taken by the
US government or our resident corporations.
TEEHEEEEHEEEE
TheTonka
And here's why:
n -government hacking that's taking place halfway around the world?
A whole bunch of studios are working out of Australia these days. Fox, if memory serves, recently built some huge, state-of-the-art production studios down under, because the cost of doing business there as opposed to L.A. or even Vancouver is considerably more attractive.
The average big-studio Hollywood production is costing somewhere in the $60 million range (IIRC). And the kind of things they're shooting in the outback are the big damn blockbusters that require the large studio space the new Australian locations provide, so the work they're doing down there is probably even more costly stuff.
Does anybody really think the Australian government is going to throw away literal PILES OF MONEY so that they can toss a few suits into prison for six months? What do they care about some wrong-in-principle-but-okay-by-our-shifty-America
(Besides, it can't be too urgent to them anyways; if my memory of the Princess Bride serves me, Australia is entirely peopled with criminals in the first place.)
Here's a URL to find out if you are in Berman's district:
http://www.house.gov/writerep/
I'm sure we can't change his mind, but at the very least he can feel some heat from his constituents.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
'a person must not gain access to, or enter, a computer system or part of a computer system without lawful authority to do so'.
Would not passing Berman's bill into law give one "lawful authority"? Or does "lawful authority" only apply to Australian law?
All data is speech. All speech is Free.
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
Crikey!
"Aww, he's a big fat bugger! Look at him squirm and fight, notice his Gucci loafers, he must be a *big-baller*, as they say in his normal habitat."
The only appropriate response to this legislation is a technical one. The simple fact is, the Australian Government and others are in the Entertainment and Copyright Industry's pocket. They have been for a while now, and it doesn't appear likely to change any time soon.
For the designers of P2P networks, design your networks such that a single user or even a group of users colluding with one another cannot unduly influence the results or performance of the network.
For the regular Joe, now is the time to get your arse into gear and get your computers and network secured. Secured in every sense possible, from preventing automatic upgrades from your OS vendor (especially if they collude with the very organisations that propose through legislation to carry out some form of attack on your computer), through to ensuring no traffic enters or leaves your network without your permission.
For the Internet community as a whole, it means preventing overzealous vigilantism on the part of the entertainment and copyright industries by making the protocols over which you transport data more secure. At a bare minimum, this means implementing the sorts of things that IPSec offers today more widely - confidentiality, integrity, authentication and replay protection. Only then will people know exactly who they are communicating with. They'll know it's their friend and not the intelligence body of a hostile Government. They'll know it's someone they're legitimately downloading a file from, and not an astroturfing entertainment or copyright industry lobby group. Make such protections ubiquitous across the network, and so many of these misguided efforts by entertainment and copyright industries to shut down and destroy every technology that their business plans cannot accomodate will simply cease to have any effect whatsoever.
Failing all this, game on, I say.
Let those of us that are ready for the battle fight it well, and have the last IP address responding.
There goes my hopes for Crocodile Dundee 3. Of all the rotten luck....
Since RIAA and the MPAA think that being allowed to inflict a DoS attack on anyone they suspect of wrongdoing, and there seem to be a few people in Congress who agree... perhaps they should all experience one. People talk about boycotting CD sales, listening to the radio, renting movies, etc. None of this will really make a dent in the industry. But imagine what could happen if say a few thousand internt savvy users decided to lauch a several day long DoS attack on RIAA, the MPAA, and even a few of our wonderful representatives in Congress? Oh - wait - that's against the law. Wonder if we can convince the Aussies to do it??
This bill is too sweet for words!
So, Burton get's the bill he was bribed to write... Oops, let me try that again: The bill the people he represents want him to write. BUT, through the universal law of unintended consequences, Berman would give us all carte blanche to crack the movie and music execs home PCs at will!
HOW:
All any of us have to do is copyright a song ( mine's going to be a 20 second diddy called 'Berman's a big fat crooked pinhead' ) and then we too are entitled to crack any and all PCs out there using P2P nets, INCLUDING film and music executives! Why? They might have illegal copies of my copyrighted pinhead song!
So what if I happen to find emails detailing their box-office accounting practices, you know, the ones that make Enron's accounting appear clean and conservative in comparison. Or how about evidence of their insider trading activities? Proclivities for obscene material, ooh, that'd look great on the evening news.
It's open season if this passes. A single copyrited song or movie clip would be a license to crack.
Kudos to Berman and his financial backers for a fine piece of corrupt legislation. If they make it a law, their PC's data is ours!!!
Stocking up on Jolt for the ride,
Schemdley
Misuse of computers is covered in Canada's criminal code.
Part IX -- Sections 321-378 ("Offences Against Rights of Property")
Part X -- Sections 379-427 ("Fraudulent Transactions Relating to Contracts and Trade")
Specifically, s342.1(1) and s430(1.1) talk about misuse of computer systems own by other people.
A good break down of the pros and cons of s342.1 right here.
As another poster mentioned, I'm sure every country in the world has laws regarding (mis)use of computers without permission. Does this stop the RIAA? Does the DoS attack count as misuse of the RIAA owns all the machines DoSing? Are these laws clear enough on denied access to services as well?
Considering the large numbers of legal systems involved, that's really hard to say.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
http://www.club977.com/ - The 80's Channel!
Your source for commercial free 80's music!
Except not many people will put "free Rosen" or "free Valenti" banners on thier websites....
The irony would almost be worth it.
Didn't you notice (Score 5: Funny)?
Ever since the media execs imprisoned Skylarov (oh, I'll never be able to spell that) I figure they've gotten enough bad karma that it's gotta come back and bite their ass sometime.
Personally, I hope some media execs head down to Sydney for some Matrix 2.0 publicity stunt and get arrested and thrown in the slammer for six months.
That would be poetic justice.
fifth sigma, inc.
We need to set up some time when Jack Valenti or Hilary Rosen is giving a speech. Then, on their way out we grab them and throw them on a plane and drag their asses to Australia. We can even call the Australian police ahead of time so they will be waiting at the airport when we land!
because it took almost 40 years to complete, creating two generations of distrust in the process. It caused oppression to a large part of the world's population. It caused an unprecedented build up of weapons, an environmental nightmare, huge deficits (on both sides) and many shadow and puppet governments. It almost caused nuclear destruction of the world at least once (the Cuban missle crisis, but how many others DON'T we know about?). Finally, we'll be cleaning up it's mess for another 40 years. All in all on balance, a dismal failure.
Australia: A horribly sunny, horribly beautiful, horribly warm place to spend the rest of your life after commiting crimes in England.
The Federal Cybercrime Act 2001 (which was, coincidentally, rushed through parliament with little or no debate shortly after the 9/11 attacks) would apply to offences committed against a computer anywhere in Australia, not just within the state of Victoria.
Section 477.2 Unauthorised modification of data to cause impairment would cover hacking or attempted hacking of peoples systems, and Section 477.3 Unauthorised impairment of electronic communication would cover DoS attempts. Both sections have a maximum penalty of 10 years jail.
Ironically, Section 478.3 Possession or control of data with intent to commit a computer offence would make it an offence to even possess software or information required to hack or DoS somebody, if they had intent to use it to commit an offence against section 477. Three years up the river for this one.
Oh, and Section 3LA in schedule two of the Act says that a law enforcement authority could obtain an order requiring a specified person to provide any information or assistance that is reasonable and necessary to allow the officer to do one or more of the following: (a) access data held in, or accessible from, a computer that is on warrant premises; (b) copy the data to a data storage device; (c) convert the data into documentary form. ie they can force you to help them search for incriminating evidence, divulge passwords, encryption keys, etc... and you can get 6 months jail if you refuse to comply.
IMHO the Cybercrime Act is a steaming crock of sh_t. It criminalises practically anything you can twist its vague definitions to apply to. Thus, its a Very Big Stick for the police to wave at people. Pity they'd never have the balls to wave it at the RIAA, MPAA, and their merry men.
Time to put the tinfoil back on your head.
(Obvious sarcasm) I Juuust cannot belieeeve that a message like this one got a +5 on slashdot.
It's a proposed US law, but it's being reported in an Aussie paper.
Howard's already virtually decalred war on Iraq, and now they've stopped buying our wheat. Ha! He's an idiot who still hasn't got the taste of bush's American salami out of his mouth since his last visit to Washington DC.
* * Always question "the National Interest" - 9 times out of 10 it is a cover for evil
Six months max ? Is that all ?
How about a Monster-size double intruder
crazy glued into their rectums ?
To those who are ignorant - who do you think worked in those tobacco planations before the American colonies got slaves? Why do you think Australia was set up as a penal colony in the first place - it was because convicts could no longer be shipped to America. Hence the chip.
The proportion of the population descended from convicts in both places is trivial.
They are a party with very few members (as in people outside parliment, in branches etc.)- mostly drawn from the upper middle class (again different from the Republicans - who appear to be from much wealthier folk), and odd little quirks that the Republicans would never accept. Things like you can be a citizen of another nation and be chosen to run for parliment - and you don't even have to be an Australian citizen or resident to be a member and choose who is going to run for parliment. It's founder, Robert Mensies, formed the party after he was thrown out of his previous party. In the foundation speech he said that the profit motive is the greatest positive force in society (would a republican dare say that now afer Wordcom and Enron?). The Liberal party will do anything to stay in power - in Tasmania they even formed a coalition with the "greens", who are at the exact opposite of the political spectrum (those in the US would call them tree hugging commies, here we simply call them tree hugging socialists). Federally the Liberals hold power in coalition with a framers party called the National party.
The Nationals are a million miles from communism (and would almost happily burn them), but can be defined as "agrarian socialists" - that is, they work for farmers as a communitity, not for specific rich businessmen (apart from a few Nationals, which have been kicked out or have done some jail time). They tend not to have much to do with "city" issues except in simplistic policies, and don't cope well with the seperation of judiciary and government - hence a lot of laws with "mandatory" sentences.
The Liberal coalition holds power federally, but do not hold power in any state (they don't have enough seats to form a coalition with anyone). About the only aspect of law enforcement that the federal government has is dealing with refugees, hence the current fracas (they want to look tough - and they want ro do it by kicking heads).
The ALP shares a lot with the British Labour Party (eg. Tony Blair), even members it appears (why are Union spokesmen usually British?). Unions in Australia bear no resemblence to odd things like the US Teamsters union and all those weird little Hollywood unions.
we dont do that to IRAN. get real.
Have a care! At least one of them expressed a desire to roll naked in money (possibly because rolling naked with a man didn't appeal to her). Be certain to not use valuable jellyfish, lest they enjoy it... bluebottles would probably do. Would stonefish or blue-ringed octopi be classed as permitted fillers?
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Most of the outback, modulo a few large deserts and salt pans, is quite pleasant and hospitable compared with most of Afghanistan, which seems to consist entirely of dry, shattered rocks.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
`Good stuff. I'm keeping this for later.'
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
The proposed law is very explicit in that it only applies to copyright violation. The law explicit says they cannot do any kind of damage to anyone else. In other words, if they mess up just once and hack an innocent bystander, they are looking at a long jail term (if they get caught).
An engineer who ran for Congress. http://herbrobinson.us