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Starting a Software Business in Today's Economy?

Ryfar asks: "I'm a programmer with 3 years of experience in C, C++, and Java. With the current low economic trends in the software sector, the small software company I've been working for since I graduated is going out of business. Since it's so hard to get a job at another software company with so little experience, I'm considering the option of striking out on my own with a friend with similar development experience and creating a small software consulting company. Naturally, until we were profitable to the point that we could hire other people to work with us we would be both the programmers and the marketers/salesmen. The question is, Where should we start looking for business? How do we capture the hearts and confidence of potential customers when we don't have PhD's from MIT? Could those here with applicable experience on this subject share with the rest of us?"

377 comments

  1. Um... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What exactly do you want to do?

    1. Re:Um... by langed · · Score: 3, Interesting
      I've found that if you decided to start a business in troubleshooting computers instead of software consulting, and charged a nominal fee for your services (I highly recommend the concept of a fee cap if service takes more than n hours) you can still make a good bit of scratch, working out of a garage.

      Computers are everywhere these days, and we don't seem to run out of people who have problems with them. In many cases, simply having a policy that says that the owner must provide the software on original media can keep you out of any legal trouble, and in many cases, "fixing computer problems" can be reduced to simple software reinstallations.

      Or you could perform hardware upgrades--many computer users won't remove the cover and install a part themselves. There's almost always money to be made here, because computers keep getting faster and better, and people simply aren't comfortable upgrading on their own.

      These alternate courses are feasible, will turn profits fairly quickly and don't really require much in the way of education/certifications, and can be done even with a staff of one. Really, the biggest part of such a business is advertising.

    2. Re:Um... by xmedar · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well said! The question of what you want is where it all starts, it seems from the post that it's "Computer something-or-other" which is so ill defined as to be useless. As far as starting a consultancy, instead of just having to make a sale at the job interview you have to make constant sales, and right now with your brief post I'd say that might be hard for you,you'd need to find someone who could sell your services unless you plan to take a crash course in sales. All I can recommend is find a job so you're set for living expenses, and then look around and see if other opportunities arise unless of course you have an idea that will create the next Netscape, if so then stock up on Mountain Dew and start coding...

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced man is indistinguishable from God
  2. Start a business in today's economy? by Luckster7 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Use a little logic here, if established companies are going out of business due to the economy (lack of paying customers), how are you going to get work?

    --
    Deuteronomy 13:06-9
    1. Re:Start a business in today's economy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      .. by offering services that cost less than the big bloated companies !

    2. Re:Start a business in today's economy? by Embrionic · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      This is the type of thinking that leads to serious scotomas.

    3. Re:Start a business in today's economy? by joebp · · Score: 3, Informative
      Use a little logic here, if established companies are going out of business due to the economy (lack of paying customers), how are you going to get work?
      With respect, that is missing the point a little. Small companies are a lot more fluid and, properly run, can adapt to changing circumstances quicker than the dinosaurs (cf. bacteria and dinosaurs).

      However, I think Ryfar needs to concentrate on what he is going to sell. Building a computer consulting business takes approximately 2 letters and about 1 day of work (here in the UK).

      What he really needs to think about is the products he will sell. What will they do? Who for? For how much? How long will they take to develop? How will he survive for this period? Where will he get the capital from? What if it all bombs? What if it is exceptionally successful and your price point cannot sustain the labor you need to employ?

      The big idea is the key. You build a business around a big idea, not build a big idea around a business.

    4. Re:Start a business in today's economy? by kingkade · · Score: 1

      Ding ding ding ding !! Give the man a cracker!!

    5. Re:Start a business in today's economy? by david+duncan+scott · · Score: 2, Funny

      Which two letters? I was thinking "H" and "R", because there seem to be a number of people over there doing quite well with "HRH" in front of their names, but I wasn't sure if you counted that as two letters or three. "MD" seems to be pretty good too.

      --

      This next song is very sad. Please clap along. -- Robin Zander

    6. Re:Start a business in today's economy? by archen · · Score: 1

      Yeah, definitly the product should be the first consideration. Looking at the place I work (as an IT guy), I would say look for a stable nitch market for software. Big buisnesses survive making generic packages. One man operations generally can't do a whole lot. With around 5-10 coders, you could make some dedicated purpose software that one person couldn't do on their own, but be versitile enough to find your place. There are more than a few instances where the boss was talking to me about how he wanted some software package for something, but no one makes it (or it's still being worked on [for the last 3 years] by some company). The need is there if you know what questions to ask, and who to ask them to.

      But being a generic consulting firm? I really don't think that would pan out.

    7. Re:Start a business in today's economy? by a_n_d_e_r_s · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      FYI letters = words scrabbled on paper.

      --
      Just saying it like it are.
    8. Re:Start a business in today's economy? by Boxcarwilli · · Score: 1

      Create a demand........as in a new product or service in a niche market.

    9. Re:Start a business in today's economy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Use a little logic here, if established companies are going out of business due to the economy (lack of paying customers), how are you going to get work?


      Because smaller companies are able to go after the business that larger ones won't even pay attention to. And smaller companies don't have the same expenses - they pay for what they actually need, not massive overhead for capabilities they *might* eventually have a need for.


      Personally, I run a small business doing - gasp! - web development. I've got 3 developers and 2 designers working non-stop on projects that larger companies wouldn't touch - $5-10k in revenue on average. And, EVERYONE sells - we all work our asses off to bring in business, and thus we have it. Anyway, we're able to get ~5-7 of those projects done per month and the pipe-line is FULL - lots of middlin' businesses out there couldn't get the time of day from larger firms (and, much to my happy surprise, we actually have more revenue than many of those same firms :)). Expenses are low - working out of my home, all I've got to cover is payroll, insurance, utilities and the like.


      Simply put, I'm making a hell of a lot more money, having more fun, and am in much more control of my life than when I was grinding away for someone else.


      THAT'S how a small business can do it.

    10. Re:Start a business in today's economy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Blockquoth the dictionary:

      1 entry found for scotomas.
      scotoma n.
      pl. scotomas or scotomata

      An area of diminished vision within the visual field.

      Perhaps so...
      - Arnold Crenshaw

    11. Re:Start a business in today's economy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yup. That's where I would start, too. Have a good idea for a product and invest some in it. Durin this time, look for a 3rd man, who is really experienced in marketing. We did this, and even if the guy has no clue on programming, he is really good at talking customers into deals. Maybe he contributed more to the project than the coders.

    12. Re:Start a business in today's economy? by seb48 · · Score: 1

      THe advantage that a new-start two-man shop like this can have is the very low overheads & costs (work from home and they can pay themselves very little), so they can compete on price while the economy is 'quiet'.
      Of course, as has been pointed out by someone else around here, you need to know what you're going to do.

    13. Re:Start a business in today's economy? by joedoc · · Score: 1

      Perhaps you need some re-education in economics. Smple because a handful of gigantic corporations are going under doesn't necessarily spell dread for economic conditions.

      Most of the nonsense reported about the Enrons, Clobal Crossings and IMClones is due to coroprate malfeasance and raiding the till. That these companies are balanced on corruption and straw houses doesn't help as they collapse.

      If you look hard at currrent economic statistics and conditions, the US economy is fundamentally sound.

      The main reason for this is the existence of exactly what the contributor/questioner wants to start...a small business. Small businesses are the foundation of a strong economy, and the responses from others here simple drives that fact home. If you look past the big boys and probe down into the "common" economy, you'll probably find a strength in small to medium-sized business activity that belies what you read about the Wall Street giants.

      --
      Joe Dougherty, Florida, USA
      The words I thought I brought, I left behind. So, never mind.
    14. Re:Start a business in today's economy? by RevDobbs · · Score: 2, Funny
      FYI letters = words scrabbled on paper.
      I've never played Scrabble on paper; I imagine it would be hard to read the letters drawn over the "triple word bonus" square, for example. How would you "draw" your letters, with a pencil? "Hey, look, I drew Z, Q, J, and K again!" (worth 10, 10, 8, and 5 points respectivly).
    15. Re:Start a business in today's economy? by Doctor+Memory · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Building a computer consulting business takes approximately 2 letters and about 1 day of work (here in the UK).

      Registering
      a computer business may take a couple of letters, but actually building (i.e., establishing a clientele, making a profit) takes a lot more than that!

      --
      Just junk food for thought...
    16. Re:Start a business in today's economy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why even hire coders? The marketing guy can sell vaporware, make a quick buck, and move on.

  3. get your MCSE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Get your mcse, its well worth the money you spend on the program, and you have more of a chance of getting a good high paying job. Cisco certification is another well respected degree.

    1. Re:get your MCSE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah I wouldn't call that cert a degree, though I'm not saying it wouldn't help. It's just not a degree.

    2. Re:get your MCSE by principio · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it did WONDERS for me. Okay, maybe not. but it beats the hell out of not having one.

    3. Re:get your MCSE by streak · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I would say that Certifications are all about memorization, not creativity or innovation.
      In this kind of market, people want something new, not that you know what some obsure key in the MS Windows registry does.

    4. Re:get your MCSE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Another idea: open a certification testing center, and go around telling people about the high paying jobs and respect they will command with appropriate certification. Wait for a juicy "Ask Slashdot" article soliticing employment help, and post your "advice" as Anonymous Coward to create buzz. Rake in the dough.

    5. Re:get your MCSE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I tried, oh, how I tried. And all I got was this stupid t-shirt

    6. Re:get your MCSE by 1lus10n · · Score: 0

      yeah cause when redhat sets a box down in front of you and says : FIX IT! and doesnt tell you whats wrong it is sooooooo much about memorization.

      all of the compTIA and MC--- *tests* are about memorization. but then again so is 90% of the stuff you do. remember that function, that regex,fix for that dns problem, patch that hole ..... etc. but you still have to be able to think. thats about the only reason robots and mcdonalds workers havent replaced us yet.

      --
      "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." --Albert Einstein
    7. Re:get your MCSE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yes, you could also be like me and become a certified irix 6.5 admin.. Irix and Irix admins are in such great demand I'm sure you won't have any problems finding a friggen job.

    8. Re:get your MCSE by xtremex · · Score: 4, Funny

      Move to India, become a citizen of India, and then come back to the US on a H1B visa! I GUARANTEE you'll get a job..

      --
      If you're not a Liberal in your 20's, then you have no heart.If you're still a Liberal in your 30's you have no brain.
    9. Re:get your MCSE by gatotkaca · · Score: 1

      Or... on the flip side of the coin/industry.

      Pump up your open source tools skills. I have been making a living doing software development exclusively using open source.

      Why?
      1. Because:
      - There are *too many* good open source tools out there, the problem is selecting which one to use, not "the best", but the most suitable to your current project
      - Expand your network. By talking to other open source developers, you grow your networking base. So eventually, given a specific project, you know which guy/gal to talk to to solve your problems in the long term without MS yanking the rug from under your feet every couple of years. This is *very* useful because there's no way in your lifetime will you have the time/energy to master *everything* there is to know about good software development!

      2. Until MS stops their arm-twisting antics, I'm not endorsing or touching their stuff because I believe in the long run, it's bad for *all* of us developers (MS or not) if we keep them thinking that they can bully their way out of their problems.

      This was nearly impossible just a couple of years ago, but now, it's getting easier.

      I don't have any Software Development certifications (No MSCE, no Java). I think certification is important if I'd like to be a hardware guy (Cicso, for example).

      In real-life enterprenurial software development, my clients wants to hear my solutions to their problem, not some paper propping my credentials. They don't know and they *don't want* to know what those certifications are about.

      No offense to those who took them, I'm merely saying that it's not enough because you'll have to compete with people like me who doesn't rely on certifications, rather on the number of finished projects under my belt.

      Java Certification (the Architect one) is the only sofwtare dev. cert. that I think is rather useful to have, but you have to go through the previous two which I just don't have the time/need to do.

    10. Re:get your MCSE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The guy is a programmer, not a janitor^H^H^H^H^H^H^H IT worker.

    11. Re:get your MCSE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mod this parent up! It's not funny it's the truth!

    12. Re:get your MCSE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not "funny", you dipshit moderators, it's THE TRUTH.

    13. Re:get your MCSE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah? Right now it seems to me the trend is more at outsourcing to India! I've heard one engineer salary here pays five guys there. I'm not sure that policy is very good for US employment either...

    14. Re:get your MCSE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree....move to India and come back on a H1B. It won't pay as well, but you'll get the job!

    15. Re:get your MCSE by Dark+Angel+007 · · Score: 1

      Is this a joke. Just off the top of my head, I can recall names of at least 20+ Indian H1B's who are on the streets now after being laid off and surviving on odd jobs.

    16. Re:get your MCSE by xtremex · · Score: 1

      It's not a joke..I can name at least 50 US citizens that have to move out of there house...including me..

      --
      If you're not a Liberal in your 20's, then you have no heart.If you're still a Liberal in your 30's you have no brain.
    17. Re:get your MCSE by Tablizer · · Score: 2

      I agree....move to India and come back on a H1B. It won't pay as well, but you'll get the job!

      I suggested a short-cut to this approach, but got a "flamebait" mod. Was it the "docile" comment? Damned moderators never give any details. F them!

    18. Re:get your MCSE by ashishk_22 · · Score: 1

      i wonder, do you ppl really think so? have u ppl really thought that why do the companies need H1B workers, it's possibly because it cannot meet the requirement for 'quality' professionals from US. and if u think that H1Bs are underpaid, you are gravely mistaken. if you really want to be sure on this, why dont u ask for the total average salary in your company and compare that with the average salary of H1B workers in your company? and then be ready to get surprised ...

    19. Re:get your MCSE by xtremex · · Score: 1

      I used to manage them...I know how much they made...they can get 2 for the price of one American..I'm not saying ALL H1B's are bad...Just an increasing amount from one country is tipping the scales.There are PLENTY of qualified citizens! PLENTY. That's just a liberal excuse for cheap labor. US Corporations are globalists, not nationalists. They couldnt give a rat's bunghole about the quality of life for American citizens..as long as they meet their bottom line.

      --
      If you're not a Liberal in your 20's, then you have no heart.If you're still a Liberal in your 30's you have no brain.
    20. Re:get your MCSE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm a US citezen who has a few friends who are H1B. Typically, H1B's will get a job that's within 80%-100% of a US citizens salary, but, once the company hires them, raises are lower and farther apart. Eventually, they will end up with a salary that is far lower than a typical citizen's salary. (Wow!!! This seems like one of the only things that can be considered long-term planning for a US corporation.) The companies generally count on the fact that these H1B's are indentured to them for quite a few years.
      It isn't as easy for H1B's to get another job, since they may lose their job and H1B if they are found attempting to look for another job and corporations don't try to steal each others H1B's, since there are more abroad.

      H1B's are also frequently mocked by the their american peers for their accents or poor language skills. They are frequently cheated by some of the companies that hire them and they have less recourse than a citizen.

      H1B's are also harder working than many of their American peers, since many of them can't go home to their families after work. They came here alone to get money to send back. What else can they do but stay and work to keep their minds off home. I wish they would go home so that we citizens can go home too when the workday is done. This is the reason companies hire H1B's: indentured labor. The US government doesn't care about the American people in the least. Corporations control all the money and there are fewer corporations out there than there used to be. Money Talks.

  4. People with money, they tend to pay more by principio · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I have always had good luck with doctors and lawyers. Both of these fields tend to overpay for very bad software, and would be thrilled to pay less for better software. Try asking your dentist.

    1. Re:People with money, they tend to pay more by Andrewkov · · Score: 0

      My wife works for a company that sells and services medical equipment, she has a very different opinion of doctors.

    2. Re:People with money, they tend to pay more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dream on, these very doctors now have VERY skilled folks (such as myself) working with them to prevent stupid software developers from taking advantage.

    3. Re:People with money, they tend to pay more by Tablizer · · Score: 4, Interesting

      (* I have always had good luck with doctors and lawyers. Both of these fields tend to overpay for very bad software, and would be thrilled to pay less for better software. Try asking your dentist. *)

      Something generic like "dentist" tends to be saturated with software solutions already. There seems to be more opportunity in highly niche markets. I personally would look for markets where there are only one per small town and a few per large town.

      Bigger companies tend to target bigger markets and filled them up. It is not worth it for them to go after a few side fish. That is where the little guy might have a better shot. The hard part is finding a way to eat, drink, and sleep their business in order to understand it.

    4. Re:People with money, they tend to pay more by Quixote · · Score: 2
      Something generic like "dentist" tends to be saturated with software solutions already.

      My dentist still uses a Windows 3.x machine to run his scheduling software (which keeps track of patients' appointments, etc.).

    5. Re:People with money, they tend to pay more by docl · · Score: 3, Interesting

      As a physician, I should be able to settle a few myths about medicine. I cant say much about the Legal field.

      1. Doctors drive Jaguars. I drive a 93 Civic. I know hundreds of doctors and none of them drive Jags. The most common car is probably a Jeep. The financing in medicine has gotten tighter along with the rest of the economy, and medicine is no where as lucrative as its made out to be on TV.

      2. Doctors will pay any "big bucks" for bad software. Yes and No. Yes there is a lot of bad software, and Medicine is way behind other industries in the use of computers for information management. Yes, much of medical software is rediculously priced. But if your going to sell something to me you've got to prove that your product will be better. We've learned from our mistakes, and unfortunately you'll need more than a few programming skills to be sucessful (evidence, the number of failed companies in this field). You need to know about HL7, standard vocabularies (SNOMED, ICD, UMLS, etc) and what makes them good and bad. You need to know about HIPAA and privacy issues with the EMR. You need to know about modelling complexity in medicine. How is your system going to handle it when the pharmacy adds a new medicines, or labratories change coding schemes How is your system going to access old labs and medicines. This is what makes current medical software bad. To do better, get a degree in informatics.

      3. A startup with a good product will suceed. Unfortunately, one of the most important characteristics I would look for is a track record that demonstrates that your going to be around in a couple of years to support the software I buy from you, and that you are backward compatable with my existing software. Your best route in consulting is probably going to depend on learning and supporting other existing software.

      I hate to be pessimistic, but you've got your work cut out for you.

    6. Re:People with money, they tend to pay more by budgenator · · Score: 2

      uses a Windows 3.x machine to run his scheduling software Ours (dental Office) is using charecter based serial terminals connected to a SCO Unix OS running COBOL programs. The company that sold it, sold out reformmed and is still collecting support payments from the customers that don't want to upgrade to a windows based system. A lot of dentists are using software that was developed for Vetrinaians.If you could figure out how to integrate all of the different input formats from digital imaging and digital radiography into a Linux based solution and migrate existing data you'd be swamped with orders

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    7. Re:People with money, they tend to pay more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, but you're first point is bunk.

      I went to med school. Out of a class size of 150, 5 drove $30,000+ vehicles, ranging from E class Mercedes, 5 series BMWs, and S80 Volvo. That's in med SCHOOL. Not uncommonly, residents first purchase is a new laptop or handheld and mid range vehicle. You say you know hundred of doctors and not one drives a Jag? I know doctors in underserved rural areas that drive Porsches.

      I grew up in a suburban area. 4 doctors in that area of the top of my head--1 BMW, 1 Jag (S type), 1 S class Mercedes (the newer model), 1 Ford pickup truck (mid 90s model).

      The average earned income of doctors (and that's all after insurance) is well over $100,000 a year. The average cost of the top 5 most expensive med schools is around $50,000 a year after tuition and living expenses. A hell of a lot of money, but easily falls into financial and private loan factors (and it's hell to manage), as well as the medicare subsidy that pays for most of residencies out there (at a yearly average of $30,000 a year, where the remainder is usually paid to offset compounding interest on the loans). Every damn fair analysis shows all loans paid off fully in 5 years while living at a $25,000 a year earned income level. It's when they blow it during those 5 years after residency is where they get in trouble (not uncommon, but lack of responsibility is far different than financial means).

      Those doctors that drive Jeeps, et al., as you say, tend to have other investments from which their capital has been diverted, including real estate, business investments, and many will have $400,000+ homes. Many doctors have multiple cars--they have the everyday driver, one they go everywhere with, including the office, and leave the luxery/sportscar in the garage. Finally, most doctors are rather fiscually responsible as well as intelligent--they may not own a Jag today, but it's not because they can't, but because they don't want to (there is some peer pressure not to show off; ego is there, but peer pressure is huge in medical communities).

      Every social-economic and esp. professional group whines about how bad off they are, that they don't meet the stereotype, blah blah blah. Most of the time, they meet the myth, or don't work hard to get around it (not saying that they should have to).

    8. Re:People with money, they tend to pay more by Tablizer · · Score: 2

      I have seen some fairly sophisticated dental software described on the web. It tracks which teeth have problems using clickable diagrams, etc. (I did not see anything for x-ray digitizing, etc, though.)

      Just because a given shop has nothing fancy does not mean that nothing fancy is available. It will take some research on the startup's part to find out what is available and why a particular dentist is not using that. It could be the shear cost, or just lack of comfort with technology.

  5. Create what? do what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sounds to me like you don't have a business plan or real idea of what to do... why bother!

    This isn't 1999, you know...

  6. Hmmm by Thurian · · Score: 1

    Sounds like another creation of a business before any reason to have the business. Hmmm, I suppose that means more money for Office Depot.

  7. One we all know and love by bsDaemon · · Score: 4, Informative

    How about reading Micheal Tiemann's essay here? It sounds more or less like you. It's an interesting read anyway.

    1. Re:One we all know and love by susano_otter · · Score: 2

      This guy has a lot to say about writing software, managing developers, and running a small business. While I haven't seen his results firsthand, I'd be surprised if you found a way to better them.

      --

      Any sufficiently well-organized community is indistinguishable from Government.

  8. Start small by masterkool · · Score: 0

    Just start marketing what you do. Basic buisness. Make a web page, make pamplets, glorify your work. Then distribute it around.

    --
    I once shot a man who posted too many, "Imagine a beowulf cluster of these"
  9. MIT? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What percent of those from MIT actually produce anything worth while? I'm not talking about wearable computers or any other nerd stuff. I'm taking real world applications.

    1. Re:MIT? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If Greenspun is any indication, I would say 0.01%.

  10. Take a hint from the big guys by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Big companies make lots of money. They also like to screw their customers over.

    I'm no business genius, but I can put 2 and 2 together: Screw your customers over, and you'll profit, my friend!

  11. Here's an idea... by cryptowhore · · Score: 1

    Maybe the world just doesn't need another java, c, c++ developer. Maybe what they really need is a worker who can adapt to new situations by thinking for themselves. Most people who consult have spent years earning it. Write some freeware that's actually useful, put your name on it.

    --
    Happiness is a slider variable
    1. Re:Here's an idea... by ugen · · Score: 1

      Doesn't work.
      I'v written from scratch or participated in a slew of open projetcs. Chances are you are using something i'v worked on right now.

      Still, no consulting. In consulting what matters is knowing right people. Having a friend in charge of IT budget somwhere and some kickbacks is what really brings home da bacon.

    2. Re:Here's an idea... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about developing some shareware so you can actually make some money off of it.

    3. Re:Here's an idea... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, you wrote ie 6!, thanks, it's awesome!

    4. Re:Here's an idea... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I just got laid off today with 20 other people. We were an team in the southwest with our management in San Jose. We were "adapting to new situations by thinking for themselves" but our fuckwit management cancelled three projects and burned through $20M in the past 10 months.

      It might be that ligitmate questions about how to find and define real work are valid. You obviously are not in the "real world" or you would not make such arogant statments.

      Hope your nose doesn't break when your boss turns the corner! prick...

  12. RIAA Silly by rmassa · · Score: 1

    I'm sure that you could work for an upstanding organization like the RIAA. I hear that they pay very well for anyone with _any_ programming experience to help them.

    Their recruiters just can't seem to get ahold of any programmers these days... Can't imagine why...

    1. Re:RIAA Silly by mgblst · · Score: 2

      You seem to be implying that Programmers have some sort of moral objections for working in the RIAA. I think this is bullshit. It is a lot easier being a moralist when you are already getting paid, and i think most programmers or engineers do not take the company into consideration, when they are being offered a job.

    2. Re:RIAA Silly by sethdelackner · · Score: 1

      i think most programmers or engineers do not take the company into consideration, when they are being offered a job

      And that makes it right? I'd rather take a pay cut or switch industries than write code for the arms industry. If you love working for people whose behavior you have moral objections to, how can you respect yourself in any way?

    3. Re:RIAA Silly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Very easily my friend. Bang!

    4. Re:RIAA Silly by JimMcCusker · · Score: 1

      During my job hunt (winding up, knock on wood...) I came across 2 positions that sound great, until I found out what it was. One was a telemarketing company, and another was a "direct marketing" company. I dropped them both. The spammer, I think, is still advertising the job on Monster.

  13. Innovate by darrad · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I know, sounds like a buzzword....but think about it.

    What is software meant to do? What is the purpose? To me the best app would be one that allows a person to perform a job that they are completly inexperienced at. Like it or not, Windows is as popular as it is for that reason, it allows people who know absolutly nothing about PC's to use them. Don't get stuck in the rut of creating software simply for it's own sake.

    Research your chosen market, find out what is lacking in all the software currently being used, and create something that will exceed it. Ask non-techies what they want out of software, what are their biggest complaints about the software they use know. My company develops software for a select accounting market, but it is so complex that it takes a week of training or more just to get started using it, and none of the training is technical. To me the best peice of software is the one that thinks the way I do, or at least appears to.

    If you create a really good app, and are willing to customize it (for a fee of course), you will have more business than you can handle. Don't make the mistake of giving it away either, shareware has been the death of many good ideas, simply because the creator could not afford to develop it any further. Develop the app, take it to the customer. If it is really good, it will sell itself.

  14. Thoust need more... by masterkool · · Score: 0

    experience. If thats the only realy problem getting a job with companies, spend the next few years inflating the portfolio. By then, things might be better with the exonomy, and hey, then you'll have all this great experience and companies will want you. Until then, just look for more mediocre jobs.

    --
    I once shot a man who posted too many, "Imagine a beowulf cluster of these"
  15. Re:First Fuck Fent! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Raaaaahhhhh! The Arrow-down key messed up my mod choice.. I didn't mean to mod this jerk up! Sorry

  16. Get a contracting job first by darkwiz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Find a reputable consulting firm/group and offer your services as a contract worker to them first. Marketing yourselves directly as independant programmers will be very difficult.

    Most companies who are looking for out-sourced programming needs are looking for:

    1. Small, one-shot deals (a database, a parser, etc)
    2. Maintenance on old code.
    3. Supplemental help on a large, in house project without any strings attached.

    You will not have time to be an effective programmer and self salesman in a slow economy.

    1. Re:Get a contracting job first by Malc · · Score: 1

      How does one determine if they're reputable?

    2. Re:Get a contracting job first by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd suggest considering a consulting/contracting firm initially too. If you go on your own, you can easily spend 50% of your time (unpaid) marketing your services.

      Working through a firm allows you to avoid dealing with lots of issues. For example ... You shouldn't have to worry about making contacts/cold calling, negotiating contracts, general/professional liability insurance, taking the appropriate steps to avoid being classified as a common law employee (with its tax implications), and filing the appropriate tax forms.

      Once you've got some real consulting experience and a willingness to spend a good chunk of time on marketing and adiminstrative functions, consulting on your own might make more sense.

      Of course, if you have a burning desire to be in business for yourself NOW--and came put together a REALISTIC business plan--then go for it.

    3. Re:Get a contracting job first by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      >How does one determine if they're reputable?

      Look at the answers to these (and comparable) questions ...

      How long have they been in business? Who are their clients? Can they provide references to both satisfied clients and contractors? How are they regarded by others in the business? What are the reputations of their officers/principals? Do they pay their contractors/consultants on a timely basis? Are the contracts they offer to consultants fair? Does the company have a formal ethics policy? What kinds of jobs will the company decline to do? Has it ever actually turned down a job? What did employees tell you during the interview?

    4. Re:Get a contracting job first by nlh · · Score: 2

      I'm going to disagree with your suggestion. I think doing some part-time work for a consulting organization might be a nice way to pay the bills in the beginning or build a resume if that's what he needs, but I think he'll be most effective if he just gets up and goes at it alone, head-first, all-out.

      There is time to be an effective salesman and an effective programmar, even in a slow economy...(that is, if he's willing to put in the long hours that any entrepreneur should be putting in -- fast or slow economy).

      I think that getting bogged down with a consulting organization may net some short-term cash (maybe), but it would be too tempting to keep doing it and he'll be missing valuable opportunities to meet his own clients and build his own business, which is the goal in the first place.

      Not an awful suggestion, but I'd stay away from that path.

      --noah

    5. Re:Get a contracting job first by ocbwilg · · Score: 2

      You will not have time to be an effective programmer and self salesman in a slow economy.

      More to the point, the salesmanship game is about contacts, contacts, contacts. Get info on local and regional trade shows, Chamber of Commerce expos, and join professional networking groups. Most moderately sized cities will have sales networking groups who meet regularly to discuss techniques and pass on leads (for example, a hardware sales rep may pass on a lead to another group member for services that he can't provide). Whatever you do, network, network, network. It's all a numbers game. The account rep that I work with at my consulting company has about five steady customers that keep him in business out of a group of several hundred local contacts.

      Most people who start successful consulting businesses have been working in their field for a number of years and already have a significant number of contacts with various potential customers. Most often they end up starting their own business when an employer's customer asks them to do some work on the side. It's not so often that somebody wakes up one morning and decides to start a consulting business from scratch. If you currently do not have a client need you can expect a long dry spell while you try to drum some up. Good luck.

    6. Re:Get a contracting job first by panurge · · Score: 2
      I agree, except that I would add "or a new consulting startup with someone in charge who provides the marketing muscle."

      Having been employed for over 20 years ending as cfo/cio, I walked out to go independent, met up with some guys with an interesting consulting plan and a need for content delivery software - and haven't looked back. The experience gained in the last two years has been priceless, especially in how you survive on your own without corporate backup.

      But this is my word of caution: in this environment, programming skills aren't enough. The key skills are the ability to analyse, prototype creative solutions, and to see clearly the end goal and plot a path to it. These result in deliverables. As another poster says, forget about programming labels and concentrate on the bigger picture.

      --
      Panurge has posted for the last time. Thanks for the positive moderations.
    7. Re:Get a contracting job first by BitGeek · · Score: 2


      There's actually a very easy way to ask. One simple question:

      "What is your markup?"

      If they are a reputable company, they will tell you. If they tell you that "client confidentiality" prevents them from revealing it, or any other excuse, they are not a reputable company.

      They are marketing your skills and taking a cut of your pay to do so. Companies that misrepresent those they market, often have a huge markup-- which is the worst possible situation, the client expects more from you than you are capable of and is paying a huge amount of money to get it, but you're not getting the huge amount of money.

      This, so far, has been %100 effective for me. IT does screen out most contracting agencies (Hal Kinion, etc.) but then, most of them are not reputable (including Hal Kinion).

      I don't think how long they have been in business, or glowing reviews from people who have gotten jobs from them is a good way to tell when they are reputable. I was really excited about 7 years ago when one of these poor agencies got me a job at $55 an hour. Little did I know they sold the client at $200 an hour-- and the client was not happy. Needless to say it was a poor experience!

      Expect that they have to pay %8 for social security and another 2-4 percent for unemployment insurance. So, a markup of %20-%40 is probably ok, with %40 being a bit on the high end. If they are reputable, they will break down their costs in the markup (for instance, if they pay health insurance for you, thats part of it, and if they provide vacation pay, etc.) Don't be stingy.

      But if they won't talk about it, then they are not worth your time. After all, they are being deceptive-- this is not confidential information, YOU Are the product!

      If its confidential to anyone its confidential to you.

      --
      Yeah, and you guys panned the ipod too: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/10/23/ 1816257
  17. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  18. Marketing/Sales??? by Alfthemack · · Score: 1

    If you have at least *one* unemployed friend in marketing they can help you determine the needs of a particular customer segment.

    (Don't laugh. Folks in marketing do serve a more useful purpose than barbecueing unicorns.)

    Once you've built it, find an unemployed sales man (It's not that hard.) to sell it.

    --
    --Al
    1. Re:Marketing/Sales??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok, I grew up in a small business environment... you have $0 to work with, so you think the unemployed friend in mktg to work for free? You think the salesman is going to work for free? No way.

      My friend, you'd better learn how to do these things on your own! That or go back to working for someone else.

  19. Like all businesses that start out... by icebeing · · Score: 1

    You have to decide what kind of idea you want to make into a business, and make a business plan out of it. If you don't have too many bills racked up, you could run a consulting firm right in your home (or your friend's)...keep your goals small, get a few clients, and see where it goes. You could get some info on how to set up your small-business from a few government brochures.

    That's how HP started, outta someone's garage.

    Good luck, dude. Ice.

  20. OPEN SOURCE IS THE ANSWER by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You capitalist pig, trying to profit off of intellectual property. Consulting? Look for free projects that need help and work on those! Sheesh.

    1. Re:OPEN SOURCE IS THE ANSWER by jezreel · · Score: 1

      Then he'll probably need some consulting in how to get something to eat...

      --
      0 001 11 1
    2. Re:OPEN SOURCE IS THE ANSWER by kingkade · · Score: 1

      You capitalist pig, trying to profit off of intellectual property. Consulting? Look for free projects that need help and work on those! Sheesh

      Somebody explain to me how this will keep you from starving to death. Oh wait, this guy probably lives in his mom's basement -- see how annoying generalizations can be?

    3. Re:OPEN SOURCE IS THE ANSWER by EvanED · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      And then watch as the repo man comes to reposses your house and car cause you're not keeping up with payments because you're not bringing in any money yadda yadda yadda...

    4. Re:OPEN SOURCE IS THE ANSWER by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      open source is for socialist euro-pions that have the government paying their rent and giving them food.

    5. Re:OPEN SOURCE IS THE ANSWER by Kestrel1971 · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but you're wrong... I disagree with algorithms being patented - that should be freely available knowledge. As soon as you produce a PRODUCT which others derive benefit from, then you have every right to charge and make money off that product. i.e. the process by which plastic is made is well known and should be in the public domain but if you manufacture a frisbee using that process, you're entitled to profit by it.

    6. Re:OPEN SOURCE IS THE ANSWER by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do not mix up everything! Open-source is the fruit of the capitalist market. Software is a now such a comodity that its price tends to be ZERO.

    7. Re:OPEN SOURCE IS THE ANSWER by OhYeah! · · Score: 1

      I suppose in your world all innovation is produced by dedicated amateurs - since no business is going to spend money innovating just so their competitors can steal their stuff. No investor is going to put money into a new idea just to let others steal it.

      So that limits inventions to stuff that can be done by an individual or small group with minimal resources. Pretty bleak world.

  21. software entrepreneur by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The bottom line is, if you are going to take the time to open your own business, you have to be financially stable until it takes off the ground. A lot of people don't have the time to waste on ideas that won't pay them for a period of time(months to even years).
    Look for something in the market that people still need/want and work towards making that your goal to create sofware for that application. Otherwise, keep looking for a job.

  22. Job problems ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know for a fact that the IT fields are pretty risky and unstable these days. But software development ?

    I too don't have a lot of experience (5 years), but what I see around me is just so many companies desperately in need of good developers. Just since this spring, I've been contacted by 2 head hunters. Monster.com is *packed* with hundreds of software developer opportunities.

    Do I live in an alternate universe ??? In my opinion the software development area is not even close the the problems with the IT area.

  23. you don't need a PH. d. to impress folks. by JoeBlows · · Score: 2, Redundant

    start localy in your area, you might want to even add setting up a SOHO network for small businesses along with software consultancy. I have a buddy who began that very business in highschool when he was 16. he now comands a large volume of business and has not needed to advortise. word of mouth has been sufficient.

    --
    True capitalism = lots of similar companies = jobs for everyone who wants one.
    1. Re:you don't need a PH. d. to impress folks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you got a garage i can borrow?

  24. I'm in the EXACT same boat... by kingkade · · Score: 1

    All I can say is it's probably much harder to start up (even a modest) company for consulting that it is finding an entry-level job.
    But if you decide to do it anyways, more power to you and I hope you succeed.

    ahem...and if your looking for a good C/C++, Java, VB, C# programmer...:D

    1. Re:I'm in the EXACT same boat... by PaoloHu · · Score: 1

      Where do you live?

    2. Re:I'm in the EXACT same boat... by kingkade · · Score: 1

      In NY-US. Job markets quite slow for entry-level comp sci grads :-|

    3. Re:I'm in the EXACT same boat... by PaoloHu · · Score: 1

      Too bad. If you were in the Phoenix, AZ area I'd have you send over a resume.

      -paolo

    4. Re:I'm in the EXACT same boat... by Mark+Pitman · · Score: 1

      I'm in the Phoenix area. What kind of developers are you looking for? Depending on how things go at work over the next few weeks, I may be looking for a position doing C# soon.

    5. Re:I'm in the EXACT same boat... by xtremex · · Score: 1

      Job Market is slow for 12 year veterans too....in the past 10 months, I have had over 40 interviews (2 a week on avg)..the headhunters love me, and they love the 16 other people they send to the interview with me...Me, and 14 guys from pakistan....They get the job, while I just wasted my time as the token American to pass the Equal Opportunity Police.
      If you think I'm joking, come with me next week to my interviews...(I'm in NYC too)

      --
      If you're not a Liberal in your 20's, then you have no heart.If you're still a Liberal in your 30's you have no brain.
    6. Re:I'm in the EXACT same boat... by PaoloHu · · Score: 1

      What is your email address and I'll contact you offline.

      -paolo

    7. Re:I'm in the EXACT same boat... by kingkade · · Score: 1

      Hey, I'm considering a move anyways, been very tough around here :)
      Still interested?

    8. Re:I'm in the EXACT same boat... by PaoloHu · · Score: 1

      Yeah sure, post an email address I can get in touch with you at and I'll give you the details offline.

      -paolo

    9. Re:I'm in the EXACT same boat... by kingkade · · Score: 1

      iforaci.joseph@verizon.net
      take the initial 'i' off the above addr to retrieve my real mail. I just put it there b/c of email scouring bots :(
      Thanks, looking forward to hearing from you.

    10. Re:I'm in the EXACT same boat... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When someone says he's a good X,Y,Z whatever programmer you know he ain't good. A real programmer can pick up a new language quickly. However if you told me that you're a good Haskell, Scheme, ML whatever language usually used in academia programmer, then I'd know you have theoretical experience in language constructs and you would surely learn a new language without problems.

      Plus where have you ever programmed in C# :)

      #1 Rule when recruiting programmers: The more languages he lists he know, the worse he is!!

      #2 The more he lists certifications, the worse he is

      #3 The factor of goodness can easily be calculated by:
      years_of_experience/number_of_languages_listed_i n_ the_CV

    11. Re:I'm in the EXACT same boat... by kingkade · · Score: 1

      When someone says he's a good X,Y,Z whatever programmer you know he ain't good. A real programmer can pick up a new language quickly. However if you told me that you're a good Haskell, Scheme, ML whatever language usually used in academia programmer, then I'd know you have theoretical experience in language constructs and you would surely learn a new language without problems.

      Actually, I have a four year CS degree (you'd know that if you've read any further down the thread) and have also used SML (NJ/ML), Prolog, and Modula-3 in addition to Java/J2SE in academia.
      The listed languages are those that I have taught myself -- because that's what someone worth their salt in this field does, they have to know how to educate themselves, read papers, and keep up with new technologies.
      That's why CS students know how to design/analayze algorithms, learn about compiler design, language paradigms, and newtwork or database concepts.

      Plus where have you ever programmed in C# :)

      I have taught it to myself (it is a fairly new language), and have undertaken a couple of personal projects with it as well.

      BTW, your rules [sic] of recruiting good programmers must have seemed pretty clever when you typed them out but stupid if you reread them. You oviously have no real-world experience and have certainly never lead a dev project.

      Hope that sheds light on your misguided comments.

    12. Re:I'm in the EXACT same boat... by Mark+Pitman · · Score: 1

      mark at epitman.com

  25. Re:How to make money on Open Source software? by kevlar · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Open Source Software isn't profitable. Its charitable however... so donate, donate, donate your time money and effort to your favorite potential cheap employer!!!

  26. learn to sell real well by DoomDoom · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I found myself in a similar pickle when I was laid off. I am 34 and have about 14 years of programming experience but no MIT type credentials. Anyaways to cut a long story short -- I did not need those credentials and I am doing pretty well -- better than when I was employed . My secret : Open Source. I buried myself in a few selected open source technologies and began to develop marketing collateral and sales pitches. After pitching a few dozen smaller local businesses, I got my lucky break. And now I am building a company around it.

    Open source is your best bet if your are starting out. Companies will want you to do a few small projects on the side to validate their own ideas about open source.I learnt that small businesses are aware of the benefit of open source but Microsoft has done a phenomenal job of painting us -- the open source geeks-- as a bunch of untrustworthy slackers. You need to disprove that notion.

    So pick a field , research the technology and learn to sell. So dont spend time thinking of cool new product ideas ; dip into the open source pool of products and learn to pitch them to businesses in their language. And contribute back to that knowledge pool.

    1. Re:learn to sell real well by bwalling · · Score: 2

      I buried myself in a few selected open source technologies

      Care to specify?

  27. How to make money as a contractor by poisoneleven · · Score: 1

    It's been my experience that the CEO of the company I work for has particular habits in the contractors and consultants he hires. Pretty much, first you need to get your buzzwords down, and be sure to make up a few of your own, that way you appear to know more than them. After your knowledge of buzzwords is down, you'll need to take Used Car Sales 101, the standard for selling your consultancy. Another good thing to do is to set one of you up as the leader, and have the other pretend he is learning from you, make up a buzzword for his position. Most of the consultants are working numerous other Gig's, yet are able to convince him to pay upper management salaries for a couple hours a week of actually being there.
    I hope that gets you started, it's a long and treachorous road, with with the right attitude, you'll be selling your "services" like they're going out of style!

  28. i have a small software business by mitzman · · Score: 5, Informative

    I have a small business I run by myself. I develop patient management/tracking system for Eye Doctors. I've been doign this for a few years and let me tell you the secret. Find a market where there isn't much competition. Eye doctors have some software available but it really is poor and overpriced (and most of the people who've used it complain about user-friendliness and such). I offer a simple alternative at a lower price and my client base has expanded by 4 in the last month (I know that seems like very little, but it's not when they bring in the dollars that I'm charging and the time I have to spend on each client). Having a connection inside the industry also helps, hehe. In regards to another post here, there are so many doctors/lawyers using out-dated DOS based software. Someone who could write an equivalent in windows or *nix (if the doctor is willing to switch systems completely) would probably be set. Also, in the doctor/lawyer industry, word of mouth is HUGE so I'm getting calls on my software from people I haven't contacted yet. Just my two bits.

    1. Re:i have a small software business by tandr · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Dude, you just created yourself a competitor!

    2. Re:i have a small software business by cr@ckwhore · · Score: 3, Insightful

      YES!! These are called "vertical markets". Vertical software markets are plagued by poorly written, outdated, extremely overpriced software.

      I just finished another post in this thread about how to approach a vertical market by writing good software with integrated services. Its definetely the way to go, and if you read my post, you'll probably understand my approach.

      On a sidenote, I'm employed by a software company to maintain government/non-profit accounting and management software. Its used by municipal governments and school districts. Its written in DOS, using an extremely old outdated non-relational database, spagetti code, and we charge MAJOR $$ for a complete installation. In addition. our users enjoy $3500 annual license fees for the pleasure. Seriously... this is the perfect illustration of vertical market opportunity!!

      --
      Skiers and Riders -- http://www.snowjournal.com
    3. Re:i have a small software business by mitzman · · Score: 1

      hehe well more power to you! What's really great about this is that everyone in my area (metro NY) already really knows me, if not by name than personally due to my connections (family in the business helps). Let me tell you though, I spend countless amounts of hours working on this software, but it will pay off. I have a potential 2 more clients I'm meeting with in the next two weeks and then another guy with 3 stores, and maybe another individual doctor. Mucho dinero!

    4. Re:i have a small software business by zulux · · Score: 5, Funny

      Thank you! I never knew that there was an Eye Doctor market, and I've been wondering what market is ripe for our company to move into. Don't worry, we'll let you have 1% of the market - if you're nice to us. Oh.. the BSA want's to talk to you.

      -Bill

      PS: Don't you dare GPL your software, that make Steve mad!

      --

      Moneyed corporations, non-working 'poor' and criminal prisoners are turning productive citizens into tax-slaves.

    5. Re:i have a small software business by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      just to put it in some perspective,

      you need to have an 'in' within a vertical, and really understand the business need before you can tackle it.

      Going into a vertical knowing nothing about it is a recipe for a .bomb like failure. Seriously.

      Pick something that you know and go with it.

      Also, make sure that you go where the dollars are.

      Eye doctors are by and large cheapskates. Pick higher-margin fields, where the gross income is higher (dentists, for example, typically have much higher grosses than eye doctors, and thus have greater disposable income.)

      You're welcome.

    6. Re:i have a small software business by mitzman · · Score: 1

      yes i agree. i have intimate knowledge of the eye field (optometry, opthomology, and optical dispensing). and when i go in to a store, reputation precedes and the sale is usually pretty easy. Sometimes I have to really push the benefits of my software but most of the time, it's a no-brainer and the sales work is minimal. I just happen to be lucky. If that wasn't the case, I wouldn't have had any success. So yeah as was posted prior, a good amount of knowledge in the industry and an in defintiely helps.

    7. Re:i have a small software business by tandr · · Score: 1

      oh, no, I meant "dell" style joke. I am personally not competeting to anyone (well, ymmv)

      Good luck in your business!

      tandr

    8. Re:i have a small software business by Tablizer · · Score: 2

      (* Dude, you just created yourself a competitor! *)

      Why go after eye doctors if you know somebody is already tromping there? There are probably a thousand other niches floating around, and it is best to have an insider as a friend/relative, like he said.

      Bars, temples, mom-pop pizza shops, golf shops, horse breaders, foot doctors, chiropractors, fashion desingers, etc. etc. etc. might be a good niche to target.

      Find a good friend or relative in that biz and poke around to see what they have and don't have regarding software and needs.

    9. Re:i have a small software business by dghcasp · · Score: 2
      I think I used to work for one of your competitors...

      One nice thing about vertical markets is they actually have a lot in common. The afforementioned company started in Dental software, then branched out into vision care software, then private medical practice software. In all, each new "market" was a change to about 4-5% of the code.

      If you're going after these markets, the most important thing is to listen to the customers. And it doesn't hurt to get the chair of the regional professional board as a customer, either ;)

    10. Re:i have a small software business by tandr · · Score: 1

      I am not arguing with this. After all this is how good businesses are started -- see what your parents/friends/neighbornhood are missing and start to offer it.

    11. Re:i have a small software business by John+Harrison · · Score: 2
      In the local newspaper they used to run a column written by Bill Gates. He mentioned that people at Microsoft suggest ideas for software products everyday that he reject because the market it too small. He suggested that anyone wanting to start their own software company start in small, specialized markets., because MS doesn't care about the small stuff.

      Of course once you become big enough he will swoop down and crush you like a bug.

    12. Re:i have a small software business by goodEvans · · Score: 1
      Horse Breaders? Is that like a breaded chicken fillet? Yum!

      Sorry dude...

  29. The very people whom you ask could be killing you. by xagon7 · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Consulting is a different story than development, BUT..

    It depens on WHAT TYPE of software are you developing.

    The current rage of the Open Source movement, caould in-fact kill you ability to sell anything that doesn't already have a decent project on Sourceforge, or have a competivly priced alternative.

    I see software developers moving more into a service role within an orginization .... similar to the mechanic, rather than the the maker of the product.

    The software developer's pay will dwindle (except for the elite) to that of a blue-collar worker, and will be thought of as such, as children whom are now growing up in this computer saturated environment, and whose idols are game developers, rather than the rock stars and comic book artists of the past.

    My advice.... stick to CONSULTING.

  30. The ability to communicate is your best solution by johnnyb · · Score: 5, Informative

    The number one thing with being a consultant is communication. You have to be able to communicate with the customer, to find out what their needs really are, and communicate to them why your solution is better than the rest.

    But it's more than just communicating facts. The customer must a) be confident that you know what you're talking about. They really don't care about your degree. They care that you know what you're doing. The customer must b) be confident that you know his needs. This is where most people screw up. They talk about what _they_ like - Linux, Apache, open-source, etc. They don't talk about what the _customer_ likes. Customers don't like Linux, but they do like security. Customers don't like open-source, but they do like having control over their technology. Customers don't like technology, they like their problems SOLVED. The better you can communicate both the problem you are solving, why it needs to be solved, and are able to quantify how much is being saved, while still being a likable, lovable guy, the better chance you will have.

    You need to understand that they way you market yourself will have a big impact. Don't market yourself as a Linux guy or a C++ programmer. You're not. You're more than that. You are an analyst who can analyze and solve problems and can build solutions.

    Be thinking entirely in terms of their business - how they do business, how they purchase, how they manage, how they interact with their customers. These are all important things. If you have the cheapest and fastest customer-billing system in the world, but it can't print the company logo correctly, it doesn't cut it. This is their business, and if you treat it with respect, that will go a long way.

    Try coming up with a product you can sell - something simple. You don't have to actually sell it, it will just get you in the door so you can see how they do business and what other solutions you can offer them. For example, maybe try selling a ticket-tracking system (i.e. - Request Tracker), and make a sales pitch, but while your there, take whoever you are speaking with out to lunch, and find out what his _real_ problems are that you can solve. And offer real solutions, not just technology.

  31. Stating up by masonc · · Score: 1

    First, you're one of the brightest in the most vibeant business in the world. A good start!
    Second. bigger companies have debt, shareholders, marketing people, inventory..blah blah blah. You have no such encumbrances.
    Find an area of speciality and learn all there is about it. Show people how hiring you will save the vast sums or bring them great fortune...
    There's lots of opportunities for talented people with determination. In the mean time, keep your costs low and remember to be honest and fair with your clients, but, above all else, get paid.

    --
    CM www.cometenergysystems.com Blog: http://caribbeanrenewable.blogspot.com/
  32. Re:Create what? do what? by kingkade · · Score: 1

    This isn't 1999, you know...

    Ahh, it isn't!
    Sweet, merciful crap!
    What year is this!!
    God, how did this HAPPEN??!!
    Yeah, we get it, but he wants to easily advertise a consulting service that will probably cost them next to nothing if it fails. Get the idea?

  33. Get yourself a pimp... by 3583+Bytes+Free · · Score: 1

    ...I mean, a recruiter. Yes, they take a big piece of your hourly rate, but unless you already have connections to land a consulting gig, it is worth it. Don't try to hustle on your own. You'll end up with a crappy job at a crappy rate.

  34. Consultants need more experience than employees by AHumbleOpinion · · Score: 2

    I'm a programmer with 3 years of experience in C, C++, and Java ... Since it's so hard to get a job at another software company with so little experience, I'm considering the option of striking out on my own with a friend with similar development experience and creating a small software consulting company ...

    You don't think you have enough experience to get a job but you think you have enough experience to be a consultant? I guess you will be targetting companies that have no programmers on staff. How many of these need software written? Or by "consultant" do you really mean "temp"? I think we need more info about you business plan, something doesn't make sense, unless you are not going to develop software.

    Your only hope as a consultant may be to not do programming. "Fix" PCs for small companies, set up their servers, etc. Much of such work at small companies is the same as or only slightly beyond what many hobbyists are doing with their own home systems and home LANs.

    1. Re:Consultants need more experience than employees by eplese · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Just because someone has a few years of programming experience doesn't mean they know how to fix PCs and setup servers. Having a few years experience in programming doesn't automatically mean that somebody knows how to setup Windows and Linux servers. They are completely different. Most everybody can make their way through the initial setup of either OS, but solving wierd problems often requires experience with the OS. "Fixing" PCs also requires experience with both the software and hardware of PCs, both which require experience to be good at troubleshooting. I don't care how many classes you've taken and how many certifications you've received, but troubleshooting PC problems simply require a lot of experience so that you've had a chance to deal with a large amount of hardware and software in different environments. It's incredible the kind of bizarre problems that you encounter when troubleshooting PCs. Things you'd expect to never make any difference could be the differnce between working perfectly or not working at all.

      I've done both IT work and programming for various operating systems, and I can tell you that it helps a great deal to do both of these. Mainly, programming for a certain OS can help you troubleshoot problems with that OS because you will likely have a greater understanding of how that OS performs certain tasks at a programming level. Going the other way I would think would also help, though not quite as much. With IT work you usually have to figure out the problem from trial and error, whereas with programming there are API references you can look at to gain the knowledge and then apply that to IT work.

      In any case, I do not believe that having a few years of programming experience will necessarily allow you to successfully do IT consulting work. Though if you are very good with OS installation and configuration, you should be able to do well as an IT consultant. In fact, if you have both the skills of a programmer and an IT worker, then I'm pretty sure you will be very successful at IT consulting. For many companies with more than about 5 or so PCs, being able to script tasks is where your talent will show. Creating complex login scripts and computer startup scripts is essential to solving certain problems without having to perform tasks locally on every single computer, and this is where the programming knowledge comes into play. If you can fix a problem that would normally need to be done by logging into every single computer by simply modifying a single script in a short amount of time, I couldn't see how a client could not be impressed. Most computer consultants would need to log into each computer to solve the problem, but if you can script it, then you're way ahead.

    2. Re:Consultants need more experience than employees by AHumbleOpinion · · Score: 2

      Just because someone has a few years of programming experience doesn't mean they know how to fix PCs and setup servers. Having a few years experience in programming doesn't automatically mean that somebody knows how to setup Windows and Linux servers. They are completely different

      I know that, what you seem to misunderstand is that the support business takes comparatively little time to learn. The secret is that you only need to know a little more than the people you are servicing. A couple months of tinkering at home and you will appear to be a guru to the local real estate agents and other potential clients. As your capabilities scale up so can your clients. I've watched friends do this.

      In any case, I do not believe that having a few years of programming experience will necessarily allow you to successfully do IT consulting work

      I didn't mean to imply any such thing. I am merely pointing out how a technically oriented person could start a consulting business. Also you seem to be thinking of a completely different level of service than I am. This is a large world out there below organizations that have IT departments, they need assistance, and they think a guy who can reinstall windows, drivers, install a CD-R and make backups for them is a guru worth $50-75 an hour for a service call, installation, preventative maintenance, etc. Again, I've seen it happen more than once.

      Welcome to the real world of computing. :)

    3. Re:Consultants need more experience than employees by eplese · · Score: 1

      I now have coworkers that handle most of these simple (in a relative term) tasks that I once used to do. I guess I forgot how much simple stuff there is to do in the IT world that companies still need to have done.

  35. ha ha ha ha -- um, no. by SlashChick · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Naturally, until we were profitable to the point that we could hire other people to work with us we would be both the programmers and the marketers/salesmen."

    Not to just be a troll, but this sentence alone shows that you haven't really thought this through.

    Think about what are you going to be doing in this business. Keywords do not make a business, friend. I don't hire a "C, C++, and Java" programmer; I hire someone who can create an order invoice system (for instance).

    "How do we capture the hearts and confidence of potential customers when we don't have PhD's from MIT?"

    Another question that shows you haven't researched your market. Potential customers, again, aren't looking for resume keywords. They're looking for someone who can fulfill a specific need. Better yet, they are looking for someone who can explain things to them without resorting to words like "TCP/IP", "HTTP", "DNS", and "C/C++/Java".

    To put it bluntly, if you
    a) try to sell resume keywords like "C++" or "B.S. in Comp.Sci" as a business;
    b) can't explain things in a simple, non-technical manner;
    c) pressure your clients to do things your way ("Oh my God! You're using Internet Explorer! UGH! You want me to code what?");

    your business will FAIL.

    And most of all, don't be flaky! Make your clients feel like they are your #1 priority, even if they aren't. As a consultant, that is the top complaint I have heard regarding other consultants.

    I would write more, but I'm onsite at a client's office right now, doing freelance PHP consulting -- that's what I do for a living. It's not easy to be freelance full-time, and you're definitely going to need to put more thought into it than you have already. If what I have said scares you, and you don't want to spend 50% of your time explaining what an "Internet Explorer" is, do the world a favor and don't go into consulting. If, on the other hand, you enjoy dealing with people, dropping off business cards, and generally showing off your work at every opportunity, go for it. You'll most likely find it to be a much more rewarding career in the end.

    1. Re:ha ha ha ha -- um, no. by guttentag · · Score: 2
      I would write more, but I'm onsite at a client's office right now, doing freelance PHP consulting -- that's what I do for a living.
      You read Slashdot at your clients' offices for a living? How do you them to pay you?
    2. Re:ha ha ha ha -- um, no. by rmohr02 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      He's probably working for the government.

    3. Re:ha ha ha ha -- um, no. by Witchblade · · Score: 2
      To put it bluntly, if you a) try to sell resume keywords like "C++" or "B.S. in Comp.Sci" as a business; b) can't explain things in a simple, non-technical manner; c) pressure your clients to do things your way ("Oh my God! You're using Internet Explorer! UGH! You want me to code what?"); your business will FAIL.

      Obviously you've never encountered a Microsoft consultant. Not only do they do all three things listed above, it seems to be the primary focus of their training. And it's gotten them to be the most succesful business in the history of business.

    4. Re:ha ha ha ha -- um, no. by Tablizer · · Score: 2

      (* Obviously you've never encountered a Microsoft consultant. Not only do they do all three things listed above, it seems to be the primary focus of their training. And it's gotten them to be the most succesful business in the history of business. *)

      That is because they have a big name and can take advantage of their position to sell sh*t by talking sh*t. "If the richest man in the country talks about Visual Basic, then it must be good."

      A startup does not have that luxury. Don't act like MS until you are MS's size and notoriety.

    5. Re:ha ha ha ha -- um, no. by mccalli · · Score: 1
      Contrast:
      Keywords do not make a business, friend. I don't hire a "C, C++, and Java" programmer; I hire someone who can create an order invoice system (for instance).

      with:
      I'm onsite at a client's office right now, doing freelance PHP consulting -- that's what I do for a living.

      Notice a discrepancy? PHP consulting for a living, but don't sell on the keywords?

      Cheers,
      Ian

    6. Re:ha ha ha ha -- um, no. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Notice a discrepancy? PHP consulting for a living, but don't sell on the keywords?

      I doubt she uses the same words when talking to a potential client as when participating in a Slashdot discussion. No discrepancy noticed here - different words for different audiences and all that.

  36. Look before you leap by devmanager · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I saw a few others point this out, but I'll chime in to put my weight behind it --- make sure you understnad what you're getting yourself into!

    In short, you need to understand that starting a consulting business means you're taking on WAY more than just IT work. There's a lot of really interesting growing for you to do here, but be aware that it's going to hurt!

    If I were you, I'd look into whether there are any consulting companies who would work with you to handle some marketing so that you can concentrate on some of the other aspects of growing this business. You'll still have way too much work to do, such as project management, billing, bill collection, account management, and so on.

    Final piece of advice: Consider doing this if you're excited about trying to build a business, but DO NOT do this if you're just excited by the idea of doing a bunch of development.

    Oh, and good luck!

    --
    ____DevManager_____
  37. Two Years Too Late by droleary · · Score: 2

    Let's skip straight to . . .

    3. Profit!!!

    1. Re:Two Years Too Late by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The underpants gnomes from South Park would say:

      Phase 1: collect underpants
      Phase 2: ?????????????
      Phase 3: Profit!

  38. Marketing and programming at the same time by kochanski · · Score: 5, Informative

    ...Is more than possible. We do it with almost no effort after 6 years in business (just two of us). And for relatively competant people there is still a lot of work out there. I went to a clambake last week and talked to 5 people just socially and two of them gave me business cards to call them about projects. I could have talked to more people, but I'm really not very social.)

    Number one for going out on you own: have someone else to live off of for at least a year, 18 months if possible. Give it time to blossom because it will take time unless your current contact list is amazing already.

    Best thing we did for marketing was to join the local chamber of commerce and volunteer on various committees, some on technology so the fit is nice. Go to the regular events and mingle. If you can't manage to hold up a conversation with a business person, leave time to learn how in your business plan.

    Get started by volunteering your services to a non-profit (the WORST to work for, by the way, making it a great learning experience as the organizational problems will be at their max) or to a friend's company or a friend of a friend's company. Whatever. Get out and work! even if it is for free. What will happen is this, after the first three or four jobs where you make people happy, people will come looking for you.

    Exude confidence, but not cockiness when you talk to people. Offering free advice that people need to hear is the best way to get them hooked on hiring you. Seem busy and act busy. It is just like with dating, potential dates crawl out of the woodwork when you are already taken because of the way you act, this is true in business as well.

    Another thing: people are hiring you more on who you seem to be (how you will be to work with) than you think. It is about 50/50 with what you know (this surprised me).

    Be prepared to say "no" to work that is out of your focus. Once people realize you are competent they will ask you to do everything, including basic sys admin stuff. This is where we, personally, draw the line. We don't do Windoze which makes this easier to get out of. It may seem strange to imagine turning down work but you will be constantly learning and you need to specialize to really be effective and you can't specialize in everything.

    Buy basic marketing books like "gorilla marketing for the home-based business" and "selling your services for those who hate to sell" they helped me get going.

    And good luck!

    1. Re:Marketing and programming at the same time by danish · · Score: 4, Funny
      It is just like with dating, potential dates crawl out of the woodwork when you are already taken...

      Okay, this guy is submitting a question to freaking Ask Slashdot. Let's try to use analogies that these people can understand.

      Slashdot weenie? Already taken? Jeez!

    2. Re:Marketing and programming at the same time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Go to the regular events and mingle.

      Oh the horror!

      Social interaction? aaaaaccck!!! never!

    3. Re:Marketing and programming at the same time by CaptainSuperBoy · · Score: 2

      Come on. How many times are the mindless slashbots going to moderate this joke up? Seriously, in almost every thread someone has to chime in, "But Slashdot readers don't go on dates! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!"

    4. Re:Marketing and programming at the same time by bobthemuse · · Score: 1

      That would be Guerrilla Marketing for the Home-Based Business.....

    5. Re:Marketing and programming at the same time by JamesGreenhalgh · · Score: 1

      I think he must have meant Gorilla Marketing. This is where you throw away your computers and move into selling bananas to apes - a far more profitable endeavor that trying to be a freelance programmer without a list of completed projects.

      --

      --
      ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!
    6. Re:Marketing and programming at the same time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      I would go ape doing marketing but hey at least you would be the top banana...

    7. Re:Marketing and programming at the same time by LrdHlmt · · Score: 1

      Good tips!!

      Me and some friends are in a similar situation.

      We're making an "almost pro bono" job to a non-profit association. Besides helping them do thier job better and support thier cause. We're networking with the board of directors who happen to be important business men around here.

  39. YES, sell free software by cr@ckwhore · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It certainly is possible to get into the software biz in today's economy. In fact, if you enter from the proper perspective, the slow economy could be be a money maker itself.

    Rather than writing YASP (yet another software package), you should examine vertical markets.

    For those that aren't business people, a "vertical market" is one in which your business has an extremely narrow focus. The premise of a vertical market is that a product offering is extremely specialized, in demand, and expensive. Since vertical markets aren't large, vertical market products sell for a lot of money.

    I'm going to use a real life vertical market as an example for illustrating my approach. The healthcare medical practice management software market.

    Every medical practice, hospital, HMO, etc. need to have highly specialized medical practice management software. This software is produced by hundreds of companies that charge BIG bucks for the pleasure of using it.

    So, why NOT write medical practice management software and charge a lot of money for it? Two reasons... the market is flooded with overpriced software, and there's a better approach.

    Its the better approach, that becomes really attractive to vertical market customers. In the instance of medical practice management software, practice managers think of the software as a "necessary evil". They don't want to spend big bucks, but they HAVE TO, because there are no realistic alternatives. This becomes even more important in a slow economy, because these people are going to be even less willing to spend big bucks on a new system, when their clunky old systems are still chugging along. After all, its a "necessary evil", and doctors would rather drive new jaguars than buy new billing software.

    The better approach would be to develop a competetive software package for whatever vertical market you chose, and then GIVE IT AWAY FOR FREE. Not open source, not "freeware", but a commercially supported, industry standard, software package that they can use for FREE.

    So now, I bet you're scratching your head wondering how giving away FREE software will make you money. Well...

    The software you design will have built-in services that are of value to the customer. This is the KEY. You charge per use fees for these services!! In the medical practice management example, one valuable service would be statement billing. Imagine the customer's delight, when they could simply press a button in the new software you wrote, and it would communicate with your servers via the internet, resulting in their bills being sent to a printing/mailing clearing house. Bingo!! You just saved them time and money, because preparing bills themselves used to take 2 full days... now it takes 30 seconds, and you've made money because you charged $0.85 per bill you handled.

    Not only does the end user get new high quality free software, they also save time, money, and enjoy optimized workflow, all courtesy of your software.

    This is the next step in the software industry!! Microsoft is already aiming in this direction with .NET.

    The trick to making this work is understanding your vertical market. Verticals are strange domains, and its not going to be simple to enter a vertical market. You'll need a few sales guys that believe in your concept, that are willing to 'pound the pavement' and "sell" your free software. You're also going to have to know what services you can integrate with your software that are of extreme value to end users.

    By providing these services in bulk, across a few hundred clients, you should be able to provide these services for less $$ than it would cost for them to do it themselves.

    Remember, vertical market software is a "necessary evil". In a slow economy, free (or low cost) software with integrated services is highly desired!! There you have it.

    --
    Skiers and Riders -- http://www.snowjournal.com
    1. Re:YES, sell free software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You better read up on the requirements for security in the medical industry. Exposing private data via the internet would leave a doctor wide open for lawsuits. They are terrified of it.

    2. Re:YES, sell free software by cr@ckwhore · · Score: 2

      I work in the medical industry, and I'm well aware of HIPAA. Thanks.

      --
      Skiers and Riders -- http://www.snowjournal.com
    3. Re:YES, sell free software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      not a bad idea, but from your title i thought you had a different good idea:

      take free (as in speech) software, bundle it up and configure it and ... SELL it.

      your dentist won't have a clue that he can download it for free, throw in the source and you're covered.

    4. Re:YES, sell free software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should be aware that if you are making people getting used to getting something for free they are unlikely to pay for it sometime later (in any form).

    5. Re:YES, sell free software by cr@ckwhore · · Score: 2

      NO... they're paying for it. They receive a monthly bill for services rendered. They simply aren't paying to use the software itself.

      In most vertical software markets, the users pay hefty $$ annual fees for the luxury of using the software. This is in addition to the $100,000 they put up for the initial installation.

      So, do you see the advantage of my approach from the user's point of view?

      --
      Skiers and Riders -- http://www.snowjournal.com
    6. Re:YES, sell free software by Danta · · Score: 1

      Sounds nice, but has anyone actually done this successfully?

    7. Re:YES, sell free software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I work for a small company that does something like this. We have a website, much like WebMD and several other companies have, which lets medical offices do eligibility checks and referrals. We charge a little bit per transaction. So here's what I can say about this guy's idea...

      Medical offices, like the medical industry in general, are very conservative. The larger ones are infested with IT control freaks who really don't want you messing with their stuff. The smaller ones often have a couple of old biddies who think it's easiest to just do it all manually, but barring that, they'll tend to be more openminded, and make quicker decisions. We succeed with the bigger clinics because we don't require any software installation, other than a web browser. But if you do that, you run into the second issue: servers. Expensive pipes. Firewalls, controlled-access server rooms, and backup tapes. Dropping everything and fixing whatever's wrong when a hundred people call up asking why suddenly they can't do their job. Running an online app is no piece of cake, and when HIPAA comes into play it'll get a lot worse. I've heard you'll have a risk of going to prison if you don't follow the regs properly, but I haven't read up on it yet...with the extension it's over a year before it's activated.

      Anyway, I wouldn't go after the medical industry if I were starting my own business. But if you want to, and you're not well-capitalized, I'd say go for the small offices, and make an app that installs on their local machines so they don't depend on your servers for every minute of work. And be sure you're talking with the clinic managers, not the doctors, because the doctors aren't interested in this stuff. But the people who keep their offices running are another matter...make their jobs dramatically easier, and they will love you.

    8. Re:YES, sell free software by budgenator · · Score: 2

      almost, there is a lot of mom and pop software houses doing it, and then selling out to big companies. the problem is microsoft like the big-boys embrace, extent and become incompable when they've muscled enough market share.
      Medical/Dental and any other health care industry is customer driven and the customer is the third party payer. The insurence Co can basicaly say submit in this format and we'll pay you, when we feel like it, reject anything tha's slightly off-color and 10% of everything tha's perfect because you might forget to re-submit and we want the money to sit in our account until after the next quarterly report. If you can't play nice with the insurance company who pays 80% of the bill why worry about submitting an invoice to the patient for the remaining 20%? Now figgure out a way to get the insurance co to pay faster, and with less rejections and you're in like flint. We paid a good chunk of change for some awk scripts that parse a print file and transmit them electroncaly to a clearing house for billing, yet the real expense is still the per transaction charge they bill us

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
  40. all about the portfolio by tomstdenis · · Score: 1

    If you don't have a Ph.D then you should set out to develop small utils/libraries and such that are not only useful but well done. Make sure to do a decent job in the design/coding [e.g. modular, well organized, etc..] and write good documentation.

    If you have a portfolio of software that shows off your talent people will take you more seriously. That and its a good icebreaker in interviews. When people ask "what interests you have" or related experience you can delineate your work.

    Tom

    --
    Someday, I'll have a real sig.
  41. Start a business in today's economy? by lajwilson · · Score: 1

    First of all, before you do anything, look for a niche in the market that demands certain software and skills that are you willing to offer based on your expertise.
    Unless you have a serious amount of contacts it's most likely not to pay off for you. You may get lucky and pick up a couple of contracts here and there, but nothing that can take the both of you to a self sufficient business.
    I, like yourself am in the same predicament, however, I also realize that no matter how much time, effort and so forth I put into marketing, developing a solution and making myself available, there is noone willing to buy. In addition, you must be able to overachieve any and all your competitors, which you need to do some careful and intensive searching.
    If you don't have something that is revolutionary, meaning something new and exciting that companies can use to save time, money and have an excellent return on what they purchase from you, I don't see a bright future. There is such a flood in IT resources and specifically software, it's difficult to compete, let alone come up with an idea that hasn't already been developed to some capacity and is not freely available.
    If I were you, I would consider taking part time university courses for an MBA, or something relative to your field, because a developer with 3 years of experience is not likely to take off now a days.
    It's hard critism and facts which many of us are faced with daily, and unfortunately, there is little we can do right now.
    If you are serious, look into putting together a business plan and talking with some venture capital companies that can help sponsor your venture. It's not likely that you can gain any serious amount of business without first getting some money muscle. After all, who will want to buy a solution at version 0.01 ;)
    Good luck.
    Hope things work out for you.

  42. Sell low. by McDoobie · · Score: 1

    If you can find the right distribution channel, you could create a good app and then sell it for $5 to $10 a pop on a cd at the CompUSA checkout lane.

    If the app is well-done, you get a good reputation, more money, and an expanding business. Because your starting out with a single app on a cheap CD, you can focus your resources and save alot of money.

    Of course, that's they way I might do it.

    McDoobie

    1. Re:Sell low. by nelsonal · · Score: 1

      It has always surprised me that there is not a low cost disto being sold in the checkout lines at any of the major stores I shop. I do not have a Fry's nearby but Staples, Office Max, Best Buy, Wal-Mart, K-Mart and the others could probably sell a few, and if you got $5 retail you could probably count on $2-$3 wholesale, for something like a cheap Lycoris or Mandrake.

      --
      Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
    2. Re:Sell low. by NDPTAL85 · · Score: 1

      Distro? As in Linux distro? Maybe they don't sell them because for most people its useless therefore they wouldn't buy it? Linux is still way too hard to use and has way too few apps, (apps that matter not just CLI or half assed OpenOffice crap) so what would be the point of offering it at all?

      --
      Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
    3. Re:Sell low. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Linux distros? Ok may be. But you have to make at least some thin printed installation manual anything like 4 pages.
      The printing would add to the production cost, but the user can be pointed on better track.
      I hate when I reformat computer's HD and only documentation is on CD in PDF.
      (I tryed the Demo Linux http://www.demolinux.org .)

  43. Don't worry, the MIT CS PHDs are by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    .

    Don't worry, the MIT CS PHDs are on the corner with the sign, "Will work for food".

  44. Small business starup actions by JoeLeTaxi · · Score: 1

    1. Don't listen to other people too much. Listen for advice and make your own decisions. Most people will tell you "x can't work". Otherwise they would have to get up and try it themselves. 2. Do your homework. I guess this is what you are doing now, so up and at em. 3. Find a niche and stick to it. Small companies must focus. 4. Don't hang onto a failed idea. Learn what there is to learn and get onto the next idea, don't dwell.

  45. You need another partner by Lisias · · Score: 0
    Don't waste you time and money doing what you don't know how to do.

    You need a marketing/sales partner who can do this task without driving you to the bankruptcy.

    Do you would hire a marketeer to program something? So why a programmer can do marketing?

    Think about it.

    --
    Lisias@Earth.SolarSystem.OrionArm.MilkyWay.Local.Virgo.Universe.org
    1. Re:You need another partner by thetbone · · Score: 1

      Because a programmer can do marketing, a marketer can't do programming.

    2. Re:You need another partner by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      my 20 years experience shows me that that vast majority of programmers do about as well at marketing as marketers do with C++.

      sorry to shatter your world viaw.

    3. Re:You need another partner by thetbone · · Score: 1

      Wrong. Programmers CAN do marketing; not necessarily as good as the best marketers but often satisfactorily and sometimes exceptionally (Bill Gates) well. Most small software consulting companies do 90 - 100% of their own marketing. How many marketing companies do their own programming do you think? (Turning on the excel macro recorder excluded). So no, I don't think you shattered my "world viaw."

    4. Re:You need another partner by Lisias · · Score: 0
      You gets what you pays for.

      If you don't mind lost oportunities by a poor marketing, go for it.

      I'm a programmer, and I did marketing to promote a nice idea I had. So I KNOW marketing enough to delegate it to who really knows what he is doing.

      Money you don't earn is so bad as Money you lost.

      --
      Lisias@Earth.SolarSystem.OrionArm.MilkyWay.Local.Virgo.Universe.org
  46. Absolute Agreement by philipsblows · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Rather than re-typing everything mitzman already wrote, I suppose "ditto" fits the bill.

    In my case, it is software and services in the construction industry, which happens to be doing well in Arizona (the construction industry... I've just been at my venture for about 3 months now, fingers cross, and business is starting to pick up). In the general case, finding a need that is not being addressed WELL is probably the key.

    It doesn't help to have friends... in my case, family ties have helped get a foot in the door. Anyone out there who needs help with computer ANYTHING is a potential client. To get the ball rolling, don't be afraid to take on something that seems simple to you... those easy ones that you do correctly set the tone and get your reputation rolling in the right direction.

    I hesitate to suggest doing some work at deep discount or free rates, but it worked in my case and helped me get some demonstrations of my work out there... so I was paid in marketing value, which will hopefully turn into cash.

    Finally, I will repeat something, regarding the outdated DOS stuff.... completely true. You would be amazed, and it is true in so many areas, from my state government (I speak from direct knowledge) to a furniture store that is about to open their second store-- that one couldn't generate a report of their inventory and dump it to a file, only to paper, because they didn't understand much about how it all worked (I didn't want to press them).

    A few months ago, I was a bit uncertain about starting something, but I actually have far too diverse a resume (ie I worked in silicon valley and took advantage of the high mobility and salary potentials) to get a job in conservative Arizona, where everyone wants 5-10 years doing the same thing, usually doing something very specific and dated, and sometimes requiring either MCSE certification or a secret clearance.

    That's my $0.02, hope that helps, and good luck!

    1. Re:Absolute Agreement by nelsonal · · Score: 1

      It is a lot like RMS's itch to scratch concept, you have to find a business community with an itch, and scratch it for them. Another tip is that the most common itch businesses have is lower costs. If you can make a product that lowers the cost, in an easily measurable way, you might get a few customers. If you get one customer, treat them really well, they will be your best form of advertising, but if they are not happy, your new business probably will not survive to find another. Bad word of maouth is a killer.

      --
      Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
    2. Re:Absolute Agreement by taloobie · · Score: 1

      I totally second or third or fourth this thread. If you are good and can find the right context, you can find business. I run a company that produces handheld software for profiling players in niche sports like racquetball and volleyball. There's no shortage of money if you find the right area.

  47. Some Free Advice by Monkelectric · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Ive been involved in so many failed software company ventures I couldn't count them all ...

    #1 - Do *not consider* starting a company unless you know exactly what niche you are going to fill.
    #2 - Under no circumstance start a videogame company, if I see one more shitty Allegro/Clanlib game Im going to scream :)
    #3 - Get a day job, a couple close friends, and work nights. That way when you fail it wont hurt as bad :)

    good luck :)

    --

    Religion is a gateway psychosis. -- Dave Foley

    1. Re:Some Free Advice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and as an addition to #1, don't go into a complicated field that you don't know anything about.

      One of the reasons that most medical software sucks so badly is because people who have no clue about the industry see dollar signs and jump on in. It is no wonder most projects are a disaster.

      Find something that you are passionate and that you have some expertise in. (even if it has to do with your hobbies/pastimes... after all, skateboard stores need inventory management systems, too..)

    2. Re:Some Free Advice by benp_85 · · Score: 1

      #1 - Do *not consider* starting a company unless you know exactly what niche you are going to fill.
      yeah, agreed. i have spent some spare time developing audio plug-ins, largely as i was so impressed by the VST(i) concept.
      This is by no means a niche market, by it is one which will not be saturated for a long time since there is such a wide user base as everything is compatible.
      I know that's off the subject of the article, but it's still food for thought.

      -ben-

      --
      "You were dead, you were sleeping the big sleep, you were not bothered by things like that."
  48. I admire your courage but... by sterno · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The logic you're using, that you should go start your own business because you don't have the experience to get employed by somebody else seems faulty. Convincing an employer of your talents is infinitely simple than convincing a prospective client. The amount of risk to an employer is substantially lower if they make a bad hiring decision than for a company who chooses the wrong developer for their product.

    Having said that, do either of you have sales experience? While you may both have ample development skills, without being able to land the business to work you'll be screwed. Where do you find that business? I'd suggest doing lots of networking. Getting business through friends of friends is your best bet. If that's not going to work for you, try to find small projects for smaller businesses. You'll likely have to take a lot of the risk of project failure on yourself (why should they trust you). So prepare to have little to no income for a while because until you can proove you can deliver, people aren't likely to cut checks.

    Other things to consider. Find a good lawyer to help you in drafting contracts, etc. Find a good accountant to deal with the financial details of all of it. Do you have consulting experience or was your job more of a strict product development role? Consulting is a lot more demanding in the way of documentation, tracking of requirements, etc.

    Good luck to you, but I'd recommend going back into the job market and trying to build your exeperience. Work on that PHD :). Or actually more usefully, work on your MBA. PHD's are nice, but only if you are doing really out there reasearch. Most businesses would rather deal with somebody who has an appreciation of their business needs rather than some egghead theorist :).

    --
    This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
  49. Linux can boot on xbox now! and they released 0.1 by dcstimm · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    xbox-linux.sf.net

    here is a screenshot

    http://xbox-linux.sourceforge.net/screenshots.ph p

    Finally!

    now where can i buy a mod chip..

  50. You shouldn't by droyad · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I work for a small IT company and my boss has over 20 years expirience. Now we hold on to our customers because we deliver. We usually gain customers by word of mouth and usually take over from inexpirienced hacks who totaly destroyed the network.

    Business and Retail are two different fields. Retail usually buys on price, they don't care that the motherboard is a piece of s*$! just it's cheap. Business on the other hand will get mighty pissed if the computer they just bought needs fixing after just one year.

    Also it is unethical as a professional to pass yourself off as a consultant when you don't have the expirience. Remeber those professional ethics classes at uni? Don't pretend to be someone who has 15 years expirience when you only have 3. That's why there are so many unemployed "IT" people out there. They don't know jack. And those who do, still have a job. In our expirience it has been god-damn difficult to find someone GOOD to employ

    1. Re:You shouldn't by redback · · Score: 1

      sounds just like my work

    2. Re:You shouldn't by bluGill · · Score: 2

      That is not true. My brother, dad, and I all lost our jobs this past year, and our expirence is across the board. My Dad is an expert, 30 years expirence with computers and programing. My brother grew up on computers, but has no education to back it with. (they seemed to have loved him at his last job until they ran out of money) I have the Degree, and 5 years expirence (not much I know), I know something. None of us know it all.

      If it is difficult to find someone good it is either because you aren't looking, or more likely you don't want good, you want someone who has put in a lot of time with your specific problem. Sort of like the Java programer ads I saw that wanted 5 years expirence within a year of Java being released. Or lastly, you are unwilling to pay the prices good workers demand, and unwilling to take those who will work for less to become good.

      Mind you, finding someone who is good, and then knowing they are good is extreemly difficult. Nobody can get along with everyone, HR won't let bosses talk, and only the best references are choosen; so how to you know if someone is good or bad?

      Yes it is unethical to claim to be more than you are. However a consultant with 0 years of expirence is still a consultant, and might be better than the consultant with 15 years. (Generaly 15 years means something, but some people have 1 year expirence repeated 15 times) With no expirence you are worth less money, and are not bogged down with the old way of doing things, either of which appeals to some people.

      Be honest. Refuse the jobs you know you can't do well, and if you accept one you find out you can't do, hire someone else to help you, and eat a loss. (since you thought you could do it you ought to have made some progress so most likely you end up making $5/hr for the part you did)

  51. Small Tips by babybar · · Score: 1

    You will need solid patners (1-2 people). Because of that you guys will encourage each others. Also test how focus and strong you want to start the company.

    Start with easy and small jobs, in many case small jobs will give you big jobs later on.

    Find a part time job, before you 100% sure.

    Business Plan and Marketing Plan. Write them and do it.

    All the best and wish you luck.

  52. Low aspirations by cvanaver · · Score: 1

    Think small. I'm assuming (I hope) you are located in a large city (as this market is the most likely to offer opportunites and the one I'm most familiar with). Take small contracting jobs. There are plenty positions out there for coders-for-hire. Look for opportunities in the financial industry (banks, brokerages and exchanges) as they are under the most stress for tech projects. Bring yourself to play as an individual contractor and then work that to bring on your co-workers. Play on what they are looking for, probe for their weaknesses, and try to fill them in an interview. If you have some credentials, or can make something believable up, go for it. Talk intelligently, probe in the interview to find their needs. Lie as neccessary, but not beyond your means. Remember, if they had a sufficient number of competent people working for them, they wouldn't be looking for contractors. The ends (if you are capable) will justify the means (this is a balance between shifty sales people and street-side technologists).

  53. PhDs from MIT? by MongoMike · · Score: 1

    Compete against PhD's from MIT?

    Those people are too smart to enter the business world in today's economy. They're competing to get grants from their educational institution of choice. :)

  54. When I was young...... by maxpug · · Score: 5, Informative

    After my first job as a programmer went bankrupt (in 1980), my fellow programmers and I toyed with starting a business. We sounded a lot like you. It was hard to get a job, so we would just start a company. Can't be that hard, right. We'd do a better job than the boneheads that put our last company out of business, right. We were programmers, by god, we could do anything if we set our minds to it!

    Twenty plus years later I am glad I decided to get another job. I've learned a few things I'll share with you for free that I paid dearly for:

    1. You don't know everything when you are 25. Or 35. Or 45.....
    2. It is more important to be a businessman than an engineer if you want to be successful.
    3. Learn how to write a business plan and execute what's in it.
    4. Learn what all those funky financial reports mean, how to create them, and why you're business life (and personal life) depends on them.
    5. Become a marketeer. If you don't know how to get a message across to someone, or how to figure out what to charge, or who your competitors are, or what the barriers to entry for you company are you will fail.
    6. Become a salesman. Not necessarily work in sales, but be able to sell your idea to investors, to partners, to employees, and to customers.
    7. Learn to take responsibility. If you are a procrasinator, you will fail as a entrepeneur. In a startup you are the boss, even if there are five or ten of you. You have no support organization, no secretaries. If you don't do it, it may not get done. Remember, you will have employees, and they will depend on you for their livelihood. What you do and do not do will affect and possibly destroy people's lives. If you are not up to that level of responsbility, get some more experience until you are.
    8. Learn to learn quickly. As I mentioned above, you will be doing many different things, some of which you have never done before (and may not want to do again). Figuring out what to do quickly will give you more time to do the important stuff.
    9. Management is important. Learn scheduling, people management, budgeting, and espcially how to help others deal with change.
    10. Figure out a way to buy a business that is profitable already rather than build one from scratch. It's always easier to make more money and get more financial backing if you are profitable. After twenty years that's what I am doing right now, buying an existing profitable business.

    If you are dead-set on going ahead, remember one thing. The successful super-geek programmers were the ones that team up with solid, smart business people, i.e. Gates-Ballmer, Joy-McNealy, Andresson-Clark, etc. Who's your partner going to be and do you trust them absolutely with your life.

    1. Re:When I was young...... by solman · · Score: 1

      I just sold a software business several months ago and am starting a new one now. It is true that it is much harder to start a business than it is to get a job. Your points are quite accurate, but there are some immensly important caveats:

      |> 1. You don't know everything when you are 25. Or 35. Or 45.....

      Lets face it, most 25 year olds know absolutely nothing about running a business. But if you keep on programing for somebody else, you'll only know a little more when you turn 45. STARTING A BUSINESS IS THE SINGLE BEST WAY TO LEARN ABOUT RUNNING A BUSINESS. There is absolutely no substitute. One year of running your own business is as valuable a learning experience as 15 years in middle management.

      |> 4. Learn what all those funky financial reports mean, how to create them, and why you're business life (and personal life) depends on them.

      Business finance is ALL about common sense. Its a gross mistake to treat it as something funky and new that must be learned from accounting books. Financial results are the only measure of the success of your business and must not be obscured by layers of abstraction.

      Starting a business is NOT the easy route. But in my opinion it is far far more rewarding - especially for somebody in their 20s who can apply what they learn from the experience to the rest of their lives.

  55. What?!?!? by fizban · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You have "so little experience" that you don't think you can get another job, yet you want to sell yourself as a software consultant?!?!

    Am I completely missing something here???

    Bud, go work for another company or two for a few more years before you start selling yourself as a consultant. Make sure it's in a big company too, so that you find out what's it's like to work for someone other than a "small software startup." You're eyes will be opened to a number of new experiences.

    It's much more likely you'll get a good paying new job that can get you more experience in this industry than it is for you to find business as an individual contractor with your amount of experience. There are good contractors and contractors who just think they're good. Make sure you're the first and not the second before you try striking out on your own.

    Good Luck.

    Lyell

    --

    +1 Insightful, -1 Troll. What can I say, I'm an Insightful Troll.

  56. Find some pro-bono work... by turnstyle · · Score: 1
    I've been a self-employed web-wonk since 1994 when I tried unsucessfully to convince my boss that the web was interesting (it was a business communications company that did slideshows, kiosks, and digital video).

    Anyways, one of the first gigs I got was free work for a non-profit arts group here in NYC (Gen Art). I was able to build my portfolio, and make useful contacts that led to paying jobs.

    Sometimes it sucks to not have stable finanaces, and sometimes it's great to have a flexible schedule.

    --
    Here's what I do: Bitty Browser & Andromeda
  57. Cherry Pick by ozmanjusri · · Score: 1

    I did something similar to what you're planning about four years ago. I'm still in the business, although there have been a couple of close calls in that time.
    I've made a lot of business mistakes, and even now I'd still call myself a pretty poor businessman, but I've learned enough to be able to consider expanding the company and employing permanent staff.
    The best advice I can give about getting work is to look at the fringes of industry - the areas where the big software houses are too inflexible to reach. Find an industry which is a good fit for other skills you may have, and learn the sofware they're using. A lot of these peripheral organisations are using ancient purpose-built programs which are in desperate need of customisation/upgrading.
    You're not going to have much success if you try to write a better word processor or web browser, but if you can modify process control software, or laboratory management systems, there are a lot of SME's out there who'll pay you well.

    Good luck...

    --
    "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
  58. Your 5 minute MBA by nelsonal · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Starting a well capitalized business in the best of times is difficult, but even in the worst of times it is possible to succeed in business. It will take more work than you think it will, but also probably the most rewarding work you can do. Before you start, I suggest that you read something similar to What Color is Your Parachute, it is an excellent review to help you make sure that you are ready to be in business for yourself. If you are ready and able to start a business, pick something that you really want to do, and focus in on it. You unlikely to succeed if you try to do everything for anyone. Currently anything related to integration or web services is en vogue, if that floats your boat. Another possible idea would be to get into something similar to what your old company did, especially if you can get some of the old customers, it might be large enough to susutain a smaller business.
    Before you start the business, you or the other founder should take a class on accounting. Your local community college is very likely to have something that you can audit, take at a reduced rate for no grade. This will be quite helpful, especially if neither of you has experience with bookkeeping. Get something to keep your books, Staples has Peachtree for free after reabate, or GNUCash might be enough in the beginning. Related to accounting, the one thing every failed business has in common is that they all ran out of cash. Profits don't matter, its how much cash you pull in, your suppliers will not let you spend retained earnings. Keep a close eye on your cash position, and know whether you are making cash or spending it at least monthly. Finally, if you decide to go into business with another person, spend the few hundred and let a lawyer either create the articles of incorporation, or partnership agreement. They know many more potential problems than you or I can imagine, and should have some advice for how to structure the company to minimize them.
    More frankly, it is extremely rare for a business to be profitable in the first year. If you and your partners do not have enough save to meet each of your personal expenses for at least 6 months stick out for anything you can find to come up with a little capital.
    Some of the better ideas I have heard to drum up business are:
    1. Help some folks with their PCs first, then eventually you might meet a small business owner who needs help with a bigger project.
    2. Give a talk and be willing to answer questions about IT to your local chamber of commerce or businessperson's association.
    3. Advertising. One of the places you might consider is talk radio, most of the audience is less techincal, usually wealthier, and more likely to own a business than the average American.
    The advice about finding a salesperson is excellent, we geeks are not usually the best at selling things.
    Do not try to get too big too quickly, you will kill your cash flow as you grow. But realize that the way businesses make money is through leverage, either charging more than it costs for your employees, or on the financial side, through the use of debt. I doubt you will find a bank willing to offer you a loan early in the life of your business, but be extreemly careful regarding debt. Non-debtors never go bankrupt, they may not succeed, but the lender never has to come after assets if you do not owe them anything.
    Lastly, (Is this the third time I have tried to close, I am beginning to sound like a pastor)good luck especially if you decide to venture forth in the the exciting world of business.

    --
    Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
    1. Re:Your 5 minute MBA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Debt=death. Avoid at all costs. Cash is king.

  59. Tiny advertisements in newspapers! by DigitalDreg · · Score: 1

    Use tiny advertisements in newspapers!

    1. Re:Tiny advertisements in newspapers! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes! Start with tiny newspaper classified ads, then move up to 900 numbers! The results are AMAZING!

    2. Re:Tiny advertisements in newspapers! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is a very stupid useless idea which will yield nothing. No one hires a vendor from a tiny print ad. "Hey,this guy has a tiny ad, he might be good! Let me inverst my valuable time to call him and find out!" Do not waste your time or your money.

  60. The Secret to Successful Consulting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    I've seen other posts stating this, but I will
    reiterate it... it all comes down SALESMANSHIP.
    You may be the best programmer in the world, but
    if you cannot communicate clearly with the customer,
    figure out their needs while making
    them feel confident in your abilities, and then
    follow that up with a very professional looking
    proposal... you will not succeed as a consultant.

    I've been an independant consultant for over
    seven years. I've met plenty of programmers
    that are probably more skilled than me, but they
    were unable to hack it as an independent because
    they never could get the hang of customer
    relations.

    It also takes quite a while to build up a list
    of industry contacts and repeat customers. Many
    places hire contractors only off of a 'preferred
    vendors list', and getting on one of those can
    take some work. Hand out your business cards
    liberally, and hang onto every business card you
    receive (or better yet, enter them into a database).
    Join your local chamber of commerce.
    Volunteer to teach some free technology courses.
    Develop and release some useful free software and
    use it as a hook to draw traffic to your website.
    Never pass up an opportunity to market yourself.

    After you find the customers, be sure to manage
    things correctly. Never work without a signed
    contract. Include late fees for slow payment.
    Get a good accounting package or at least a good
    accountant. Build up a warchest of money to
    ride out the slow periods (I'm glad I did).

    Thats about it. Only time and a lot of work will
    reveal if you have what it takes to be an independent consultant and (more importantly) if
    you actually enjoy it.

    Thad

  61. Open Source can work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    First of all. Good luck. You will undoubtably find it hard going for the first year or so.

    Open Source can provide you with a cost/time effective way to solve a clients problems. Solving problems for customers will feed the good ole word of mouth virus.

    Organisations are always looking for solutions to their IT problems, even in a slow economy. Help them understand what they need, and then help them to get it. For a fair price.

    Most OS projects will fit 80%+ of a client's requirements, customers will happily pay to have it fulfill 100%. Contribute your code to the CVS to gain avoid getting yourself a reputation as a leech and your talents will come to a wider audience too.

    Target the less crowded markets, and tailour an existing solution to fit it more closely. Document & improve the GUI. O/S s/ware often lack both - and customers LOVE pretty pictures.

    Offer your services to organisations that are themselves are client-facing - other consultants, accountants, lawyers etc. or that have a strong community themselves, i.e. doctors. Find a 'popular' company and 'donate' your services for 'labour only', i.e. FREE software.

    Once you've got a few references customers in a given market, you're reputation as a problem solver will grow. THAT reputation is what customers want in a consultant. A magic wand to make their problems go away.

    We've done that an seen an increase in business as result. We solve problems, not build software. If solving a problem requires additional coding, so be it. But at least we're not re-inventing wheels. :) Once again, bon chance.

  62. Some advice... by Wraithlyn · · Score: 5, Informative

    Start small. Projects you can pump out fast and charge a minimal amount for, but do your best work on these, really polish them and make them shine. Be prepared to work a LOT of really long nights, and on boring shit like web design. This is not to make money, it is to build a base of clients who will recommend you to other people. The better your reputation, the more money you can charge for your time.

    Where to look for clients? Everywhere. Friends and family. The net. Newspapers, yellow pages, and bulletin boards. People you meet on the street. (I'm serious.. face to face has a really magical quality to it that makes people listen to you 100x more than a phone call, fax, or email) Carry a really cool conversation piece that demonstrates your talent (example: a graphics demo on a PDA)

    Want to know what people want in today's economy? (Well, always, really) To save money. To get businesses to spend money on you, you have to demonstrate how what you can do for them will save them money. Show them how they'd be fools NOT to buy your software.

    And make you you put a lot of work into building a truly reusable code base, it pays off huge in the long run.

    --
    "Mind, as manifested by the capacity to make choices, is to some extent present in every electron." -Freeman Dyson
  63. Finding customers is easy! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Get a list of potential customers. They are going to be project managers in corporate IT shops for the most past. Worst case, get a list of companies and hustle the switchboard operator and the secretaries. Find people that might hire people with your skills. If you can team up with a few other people and pitch more than just yourself, so much the better. When you get a prospect on the phone, don't start talking about yourself. Ask questions. What is his job? What projects is he working on / planning? What technology does his team use? What skills are needed? Does he ever use outside help? 99% of the time, they will tell you to buzz off. 1% of the time you'll get a meeting or interview. 1 our of five of those will get you work. So plan on 500 calls! Have a good resume ready. Take notes. Ask if you can call back in a few weeks / months. Send material: resume, business card etc. Follow-up. When a project manager needs a contractor, he's going to call the guy that he's talked to and blown off three times in the last six months. Contacts you make tomorrow will yield business two years from now. People will hire you if thay think you have the necessary skills and they like you, so be likable. You should be coming out of your shoes with enthusiasm. Practice your pitch. If you feel embarrassed because you feel like you're "over the top", f' it, take it up a notch. If nobody hangs up on you or tells you you are an asshole in the first 25 calls, you aren't making an impression at all. This is not to say you should be obnoxious ... but don't be afraid to let them know who you are. Laugh, tell stories, talk to prospects like they were your friends over a beer.

    I have done all of this, beginning almost twenty years ago. I have founded and sold three businesses and netted over $20MM. I'm not BSing, even a little. And by the way, I have never ever had a job title with the word "sales" in it. I am a software architect and developer. But if you're turned off by the notion of selling, get over it. We all sell all the time. So figure it out. Get good at it. Take the Dale Carnegie sales class - among the best there is for geeks who don't get it. Read books by guys like Zig Zigler (Of Vegematic fame). Don't bother with all the heady stuff about consultative selling and customer satisfaction.

    Go for it! And two last points: you don't need an MIT degree. NEVER EVER apologize for not having one! And for the mook whose advice was, "If you have to ask for advice, you are going to fail," I have one word: LOSER!

    Good luck! This is how it starts for all of us.

    1. Re:Finding customers is easy! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe you are not BS-ing, and it is obvious why you suceeded. Everyone interested in starting a business should print this post out and hang it by your monitor AND your telephone.

      Although I don't quite agree so much on the Zig Zigler thing, he's a little over the top for me... talk to everyone. I have sold our services in a diner at breakfast because someone overheard me talking to my wife. You've gotta live it and breathe it.

  64. Not to be a troll but ... by Christianfreak · · Score: 4, Insightful

    are you kidding? 3 years of experience??? People straight out of college are getting jobs you should be able to find one. I only have about 4 1/2 years of experience, I was laid off 3 weeks ago and I have contract work to do and people calling me (probably about to accept a job) and my strong points are Perl and PHP.

    Seriously if you know C and Java you have it made, you might have to relocate but there are hundreds software jobs out there. I'd suggest going to ComputerJobs.com or to Monster.

    I'm not saying you shouldn't start your own company, I don't know anything about the local economy where you live but I'm going to say that with 3 years experience and your skills you shouldn't have too much trouble finding a job.

    1. Re:Not to be a troll but ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unless you are living in an area with a high concentration of high-tech companies, finding any programming jobs right now is quite hard.

      I have 10 years' experience with C and C++, 3 years with Java, and MANY other areas. I have outstanding references, and I do excellent work, but I keep hearing "You're overqualifed.", which seems like a euphemism for "You're too expensive. We want some young schmuck that we can abuse for $25K per year."

      On top of that, the requirements are sometimes ridiculously specific. I saw an ad recently that asked for PHP, Perl, Python, Lua, C, C++, STL, Java, MFC, SQL, ODBC, COM, DCOM, ATL, .NET, device driver development, network protocols, supervisory experience, project management skills, etc., and only asked for 1-2 years' experience. Huh?

      I know others with 4-5 years' experience who are hearing the same thing.

  65. I think you already know the best answer.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think you said it already...Since you don't have your PhD. at M.I.T, maybe it is worth trying to get that! Seriously, higher education firms (i.e. colleges) (particularly those emphasizing training in technical and finanacial fields) often experience huge increases in applications and admitted applicants. When the economy is good, one doesn't need an education, when it...isn't...you better be as qualified (or more) than the next guy. Plus, you can defer your student loans (which can also pay for rent and board in many cases) until you leave school or the economy is better. If M.I.T. isn't your cup of tea, try waiting out these slum years in a large university where you can get lost in the plethora of students, organizations and professors who are trying to spend as much time in their idyllic, disconnected world as possible.

  66. Nepotism... by PRickard · · Score: 2

    It's not that there are no jobs, it's that the jobs which exist are being given to sons in law or cousins. I've been trying to get a freelance Web design contract for a month now but they would rather pay cousin such-and-so $20 a month to do a site that damages their image than pay me a few thousand dollars to set up something that would have people knocking their doors down.

    --

    == Paul Rickard, Editor of The Microsoft Boycott Campaign ====

  67. I've taken that path by AKAImBatman · · Score: 2

    I am a programmer who ended up out of a job. My resume was great, but businesses aren't looking at what you can actually do anymore or what skills you have. So I decided to start my own business.

    DataDino is a product I developed that is similar to Toad, but allows you to connect to multiple databases. We've sold a few copies so far and expect business to gradually pick up. Here are a few things I learned:

    1. It takes time. If you can't hold out for more than six months, you'd better try working double shifts part-time.

    2. Your success is partially dependent on how well your business is known. If people know you, they'll trust you and buy your product.

    3. Try to have an open-door policy. With DataDino we use Bugzilla to allow people to request enhancements and new database support. People like this because it gives them feedback that you as a company actually listen to what they have to say.

    4. You'll be tempted to pack a lot of helpful text into your web page and advertising materials. Don't do this. Try to pack actionable items into as small a space as possible. (e.g. I used to explain what Java Web Start was before I offered to option to run the program. Now there's just a big red plunger that says GO.)

    5. Marketing is a hellva hard thing to do. It's challenging and one wrong step can tarnish your company's name. Make sure you are getting the biggest bang for your buck off of every advertising dollar, and make sure that none of it is likely to offend your users.

    I highly recommend two tasks to get you going. The first is to attend a StoresOnline seminar when they come to your area. These guys make money off of people with successful online businesses, so their seminars are very helpful. You might want to check out this link before you buy into their offer tho.

    The second is subscribe to SiteProNews. There's a lot of helpful statistics and info that pours out of their articles, so you probably want to check it out.

    Good Luck!

  68. My advice.... by sunking2 · · Score: 2, Flamebait

    Go open a lemonade stand. Given your experience (or lack of it) that's about all you are ready for. It's pretty obvious that you haven't the first clue on starting/running a business and 3 years java/c++ experience isn't going to impress too many people.

    How about just hanging a sign around your neck that says, 'will code for food'. Sometimes the truth hurts....

    1. Re:My advice.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ouch! That did hurt. It would have been easier to say: "Dude, you have no future!"

      No wonder people are leaving the I.T. field - no future.

  69. Gorilla marketing? by drooling-dog · · Score: 1

    Umm... Gorilla marketing?

    1. Re:Gorilla marketing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But everybody likes monkeys!

  70. It depends... by Mr.+Piddle · · Score: 1

    You really didn't give enough details for us to adequately answer your question.

    For example, if you are an extraordinarily talented person, you might be able to hold your own after three years experience (hell, I've known high school students who could run rings around me and I'm three years out of college!). However, most people can't. Running a business takes a special type of person who doesn't give up easily and is knowledgable enough to have good intuition about a market and make shrewd decisions.

    I've often thought about starting a business, too, but I haven't the confidence nor a marketable idea. Perhaps one day I will. Perhaps not, but my gut feeling is that I will know if that day comes.

    If you know that your skills are highly marketable or you have a really good hunch about an untapped market, why not? If you are really just unsure and toying with an idea, you might be better off riding on another company for a while until you can re-evaluate going on your own.

    --
    Vote in November. You won't regret it.
    1. Re:It depends... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My partner and I started doing consulting work right out of school (both got BS CS). The first couple years were pretty lean, but we're both doing pretty well now. Try to specialize in some particular field, whether its medical, legal, or (in our case) real estate. That way you will know much more about the problems that need solving in their business once you finish a few jobs. If you are really interested in making money though, just hourly consulting will probably won't cut it. You'll need to get into something that offers recurring fees such as subscriptions or maintenance contracts or at the very least having other people working for your that are billed by the hour. Finding and managing employees deserves its own thread though.

  71. good gawd almighty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...how does horseshit like this get posted?!? you can't possible have learned much in three years to be a valuable c/c++/java programmer, so where does that leave you? up that creek, mon ami. tough shit is all I have to say.

    1. Re:good gawd almighty by vga_init · · Score: 0

      For someone with a knack for programming (ie genuine talent), three years is more than enough experience to get you going on the right track; if your business requires you to specialize in a particular area of software design then a little bit of study will fix that. ::sigh:: Don't we all miss the days of freelance programming and one-man software companies that made it big.

  72. Hmmmmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have been running a software business for 3 years now and it is going great. I started straight after finishing university, which most people advised against, but I believed in what could be achieved, and it has been great. Most days when I am working I just smile because I don't feel like I am just a cog in a machine (maybe I still am but perceptions are important too) rather I feel like I am in control of my future in a way an employee never could.

    I am not saying it will definately work, or it will definately fail.

    I think with enough determination, and some trust in God (your real source and provider), then you will do just great.

    Jamie.

  73. Creating a product before looking at the market by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A business is a tough thing to do. Striking out on your own means you need to have a deep and thorough understanding of various markets and customer needs, what they are willing to pay for solutions, and whether or not you can offer anything of value. That and a plan to turn a profit.

    In short, companies will not likely hire some wet-behind-the-ears company to do work for it, unless the principals at the company have decades of experience. Of course there are counter examples, specifically the auto companies, that seem intent on firing older IT staff in favor of younger, less talented/experienced/clueful folks. Sad.

  74. Be prepared to work hard... by cjustus · · Score: 1
    I've founded an ISP, a consulting company, and within the consulting company, we've begun selling commercial software... I've got a background in Business & Comp Sci from U of Waterloo (but that's another Slashdot story...)

    The importance of a business plan for any activity that you undertake cannot be stressed enough... Who will your customers be? Who are your competitors? Why should someone choose your service over someone elses? Why do they need your services at all? What are your strengths and weaknesses... You need a budget & a plan - how will you get the word out about your company? Are you going to compete on price? Quality of service? Finding a niche and servicing that market is probably a good way to start... Don't try and be everything to everyone... Owning your own business and toughing it out is no easy matter... Be prepared to save every cent you make, and put in long hours (your competitors are working harder than you... are you smarter than them?)

    A quality business plan will take a couple of weeks to put together, and involves calling your competitors to gather intelligence... and potential customers to determine if there is a market...

    Be persistent, and prepared to work hard, and you will succeed...

  75. Re:The very people whom you ask could be killing y by 1lus10n · · Score: 0

    The software developer's pay will dwindle (except for the elite) to that of a blue-collar worker, and will be thought of as such

    on what planet ? here on this rock called earth good developers take years to get good. yet alone "elite". developers pay will be more like that of doctors and lawyers. as they provide a service that takes time to become good at.and in case you didnt notice a ton of the projects on sourceforge aren't even 1.0. and i dont think company X wants to run software that bombs out every 5 min (most people had enough of win95 type crashing) .

    and dont try to say open source doesnt make money. it doesnt make money the same way as closed source - thats a given - but thats also A_GOOD_THING.

    and coming from somebody who works for a "service" based company i can tell you the developers make the apps we use to track cases, find docs etc .... and they get paid rather nicely to 70k +. if an IT position is going to become blue collar it will be the hardware guys. everyone can switch a harddrive. not everyone can make a fast effiecient app. with few or no bugs. let alone an app that uses something like oracle or db/2

    --
    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." --Albert Einstein
  76. learn from my mistakes... i did the same thing.... by ThomasMis · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I take comfort in knowing that there is somebody else out there who is having the exact same life experience as I am.... I just hope yours turns out better. Regardless, here is my story, I hope you can gain at least some wisdom from it.

    I graduated with a BS in CS in May 1999. I started my career immediately out of school hacking C++ for a fortune 500. I left after a few months to join a start-up embedded systems company. At the time, I felt that this was my ticket to fortune and glory (after all, when I joined this start up in the middle of 2000, the Dow had just hit it's all time high. It seemed every 20 year old with a CS degree moving to Mountain View or San Jose was becoming a paper millionaire). When I interviewed with them, the Engineering VP reassured me that I was going to become financially secure after the IPO from all of the stock options they were waving in my face. So in my naive enthusiasm I jumped at it (wouldn't you?).

    6 months pass, I show up to work one brisk Monday morning in November of 2000, only to be told that I had been laid-off along with all the other engineers and marketing people. They weren't able to secure any more venture capital, and the seed money had dried up. When I started, I was employee number 12, during that 6 month period they ballooned up to 40-something (I lost count) just before the lay-offs.

    (I'm almost to the point of the story) So my roommate was also hacking code for them (he was writing Linux device drives and such, he had much cooler tasks than I did) and laid off that same morning. So we headed back to our apartment, played some Counter-Strike to cool off, and tried to figure out where we go from here... That's when we had the idea to start our own software consulting company. We had both worked with consultants, and we both felt that we were as competent and experienced as any consultant we had worked with. So we got out selves a lawyer and an accountant and started Treknetix Software out of our apartment. Our plan was to just write anything for money, then as we get settled in, we would find a specialty to focus on. Well, it turned out, finding clients is at least ten times more difficult than actually engineering a software system. We ended up getting a few contracts, mostly web work. We did a lot of LAMP (Linux Apache MySQL PHP) sites. It was during this time that I migrated completely away from Windows and to Linux %100 of the time. But we just weren't getting enough work to pay for rent and lunch meat each month. Slowly, I started to dig into my savings to support myself. I kept telling myself that I'd just borrow from saving now, and everything will be all right after things start really picking up. Well, of course they never did.

    With only $14 to my name, I moved back home with mom and dad at the end of 2001. I created a resume, and started applying for jobs like mad. When that didn't work, I went to professional recruitment firms... my college's career office.... local networking events.... nothing worked. I tried all the "best practices" for finding work, namely, treat it like a full time job. Spend at least 8 hours a day looking into positions and sending out resumes. My roommate went off to graduate school... I think I'm going to follow, there is just no work to be had.

    Do I regret starting Treknetix? No way! I learned so much about working with non-engineering managers. I've really broken out of that "anti-social" programmer mold from my experience working with clients. This is a good thing. Now only if I could apply this somewhere else.... (bitter anyone?)

    My advice to you. Try it. But, if you can, move somewhere you don't have to pay rent, or get married to a rich girl first. DON'T TRY TO LIVE OFF YOUR SAVINGS! I can't stress this enough. That's the only regret I have since graduating college. I should have moved home immediately after the layoff.

    This has gone on longer than I would have liked. So to make a long story short: SOMEBODY HIRE ME!!

    http://resumes.dice.com/thomasmis

    --
    Check out my podcast: DreamStation.cc Video Game Show
  77. Huh? by Phileosophos · · Score: 1

    I don't know what planet you're on, but I had no trouble whatsoever getting work with only 3 years of experience. Try completing lots and lots of applications. You might be surprised.

  78. Lessons I've learned by Infonaut · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I started up a two-person consulting business last year, and so far I have learned a lot. Most of what I learned was that I didn't know as much about business as I thought I did, and that I still have a lot to learn.

    But I also learned that the most difficult part of getting a business going and making it self-sustaining is marketing. Word of mouth will be your most powerful marketing tool, as others have suggested. However, in my experience, lead conversion is the most difficult part of building the business. Once someone expresses interest in your services, you have to convince them to actually lay down the cash to have you do the work.

    One book I've found very helpful is "Managing the Professional Service Firm" by David Maister. This book really brought home to me the reality that as a technology consultant, you really are in the service business, and as such your marketing efforts have to be an integral part of everything you do.

    Another thing I discovered is that getting someone to let you do work for them is not the same as them actually paying you in a timely manner. Developing a billing procedure that lets you provide deliverables in stages, which are tied to invoices, might be something to consider. We've been doing that for the past few months with much better results than the "build it, bill it, wait for weeks and weeks to get paid" process, which really sucks. It may seem like a minor detail, but cashflow can be a real problem when you need to buy a development tool or some service, and suddenly you find that you don't have the cash because your clients have been late in paying you.

    Also, treat the business process as you would a technology process. Constantly critique your business efforts and try to learn from your mistakes. As obvious as this sounds, a lot of small business people simply don't conduct any form of self-evaluation or process critiquing.

    Don't let the naysayers get you down. It takes a lot of courage to go out and start something on your own. There will always be people sitting smug in their salaried positions, ready to sharpshoot you. But they'll never know what it means to put yourself out there on the edge and go for it.

    Finally, for the financial and legal matters associated with starting a business, check out Nolo Press. Their books are very thorough and have been extremely helpful to us in negotiating the often frustrating local, state, and federal paperwork shuffle.

    Best of luck!

    --
    Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
    1. Re:Lessons I've learned by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, the maister book is brilliant, and really the only one like it. Maybe a little detailed for a one man shop on the first day, but definitely worth the investment.

  79. my experience by pavera · · Score: 1

    I started a small company 3 months ago, basically because of the same thing you're experiencing, myself a coworker from the other company started our own, and we're doing great, we work shorter hours and get paid much more, we've grown profits by more than 100% each month, and we're on track to do it again this month. (and no we're not doubling from $0, we're doing quite well thank you.) Mind you, we have only done a very small amount of software consulting (1 job), we focus more on turnkey server solutions, and networking/security... but thats just us.. its definately possible, and its great!

  80. Do *NOT* start planning yet! by magarity · · Score: 1

    Whatever you end up doing, don't even THINK about it yet. See recent stories on /. re: companies claiming all IP created by employees during term of employment. If the company you work for now fails and your new idea takes off, the investors and whoever from the old company might come claim some of the action. Who knows, they might sue you not only for your new idea and all profits but also for goofing off planning this new idea instead of working harder at the struggling company. So make sure you document all thoughts concerning whatever new idea and date them AFTER you leave the current company.

  81. Whatever, dork. by glrotate · · Score: 1

    Nobody cares about websites. Get a real job.

    1. Re:Whatever, dork. by vga_init · · Score: 0

      Amen to that!

  82. Extremely difficult by Krusher55 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I am in a similar situation having been laid off a while ago and I too have considered doing some consulting work. It is awfully tough though because you won't be alone and so few companies are willing to spend. Some reccommendations:

    1. Work out of your home, keep expenses low and your rates very reasonable. You need to have a very attractive pricing advantage over the larger, more established out sourcing firms.

    2. Even though you are working out of your home, you need to look professional and not a fly by night venture. If you live in a basement apartment or the low rent district of town don't advertise it. Also don't use a PO Box. If necessary hire the services of an office front where they offer admin, mail and boardroom services. Have your mail sent their and pick it up or have it forwarded to your place. Whatever you do, make sure you look professional and as good as the other guys.

    3. Define a very small target market or a very small set of services you wish to sell. Become a Java consultant not a Java/C/C++ consultant. Even better would be a Java web developer or a Java enterprise software developer. Choose whatever you know best, learn to know it better, and market only those skills. You will need to market yourself as being 'experts' in that field as opposed to a couple of smart guys who knows a lot about software development and can do whatever people may ask. If you try and be too much you will come across as not being an expert in anything and right now I think companies are only interested in talking to the experts.

    4. Read books about sales and marketing strategies. Few "techies" really understand what sales are all about. We've all heard and told the jokes about sales and marketing people. Be prepared to become one. When approaching a company, try to figure out what services they might need and focus on solving their needs as opposed to what you can do for them. They aren't interested in what you can sell them, they are only interested in having their problems solved. If you don't think you can solve their problem, forget about it. Don't waste your time on a potential contract you likely can't/won't get.

    Other than that, be prepared for a lot of work but have fun. Don't expect to make a million dollars. If you are only in it to get rich, you will certainly fail. If you enjoy what you are doing you are more likely to be successful.

  83. Re:How to make money on Open Source software? by 5282 · · Score: 1

    Companies shouldn't expect to make money directly off of open source projects. Open source should be looked at to fill gaps. One of the keys to a company that produces software is to focus on what really makes it money...A good case study would be something like Quickbooks from Intuit...Why do people buy Quickbooks? I doubt its because of the internal database it uses. So why should Intuit spend money on developing a database when they could use something from the open source community? I see the open source community as this huge excellent toolbox where I can pull solutions to problems that I shouldn't be focusing on. However it should be expected that anyone who uses the toolbox should also make sure to take care of it and continue to improve it.

  84. The number 1 rule of starting your own business. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Don't start a business just to buy yourself a job.

  85. Remember to talk to a CPA by SatoriMan · · Score: 1

    As someone who has been where you're thinking of going (I had an independent contract programming company for 6-7 years and am heading down that road again), be sure to spend a few bucks up front to talk to a CPA and/or lawyer.

    Find out how you should set up your business (corporation, partnership, sole proprietorship, etc.) and have the accountant/CPA show you what you have to do to keep the taxman happy. I know that I wish I could have just spent my time writing programs, and have the money take care of itself, but that isn't going to happen.

  86. Talk to everyone you know by bigattichouse · · Score: 1

    Talk to your wife's buddies, talk to your former boss, if someone says they're not looking to hire, you should ask "Is there one other company you know of that might need our help?" You are surrounded by a network of people, use it.

    We'll be launching our network contact manager (peoplelinking) in a month or two as one way to visualize your contact network, keep track of callbacks, and other fun.

    In the mean time, we've created a site where you can network with others like yourself using our data engine.

    Mike Johnson father@bigattichouse.com http://www.bigattichouse.com/peoplelinking/

    --
    meh
  87. I cannot believe ... by Sludge · · Score: 1
    This is maybe 50% offtopic, but the synchronicity and relevance that ask slashdot has to my own life is literally bordering on amazing. Does anyone else have that?

    I don't know what to say - it's been timely like this for years.

  88. Re:How to make money on Open Source software? by johnnyb · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How can an Open Source software company make money in today's economy?

    ********

    By selling solutions, not software. The software "product" idea is going away. In it's place, there will be numerous tools developed by people building solutions for others. If you sell a a product that you obtain for 0 cost, people won't need to do business for you. But if you sell solutions that consist of free elements that you put together to solve business problems, you will be paid well. In fact, the business usually won't care how much you pay for the pieces, as long as you deliver the full package.

    Those solution providers will release the tools they develop themselves solving business problems as free software. Why? Because they recognize that it is important to maintain the environment that allows them to be successful.

    The legal environment is a good analogy. Legal knowledge is free. All court cases and laws on the books are accessible at zero cost. However, lawyers are one of the highest-paid professions. Why? They put the pieces together (which were obtained at zero cost) to create a valuable solution for the client (getting out of jail, etc.)

  89. Must own suit for Sales by canadian_right · · Score: 2

    When visiting prospective clients you must dress in a mannner that will assure the client that you are a professional. If in doubt about what is expected you can't go wrong with a business suit. Its stupid, but people will judge you on how you dress in the first few seconds that they meet you.

    --
    Anarchists never rule
    1. Re:Must own suit for Sales by bluGill · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Uh, yes and no. You don't talk to small one man mechanics in a suit, you wonder in, and while talking up the benifits of your software, guide the transmission while he lowers the jack so it comes out faster. You will have much better luck if you can speak the language. (Warning, do not try this unless you actually know how to do it right. The salesmen that wonders in and helps do a task that should have two people can get a sale, but the salesmen that turns a $200 job into a $2000 job with one wrong move not only loses the sale, but all chance of others in the industry) In reality you will never touch a car when you talk to the mechanic, since it looks like you are pushy, and trying to take the job, you just need to have the ability.

      Don't even look at a bank without your suit. Make sure when you go to a dry cleaners make sure you have it starches perfectly. When you mail to an envlople company spend as much effort on the envelope than you do on the rest of the presentation. You can wear jeans into most (but not all) computer companies, but the suit is better until you are sure. With some clients the suit will hurt you, with most you can't get by without.

  90. Starting Small by bobsledbob · · Score: 1

    Start small is right.

    The biggest mistake you could make would be to start out thinking you're going to get 40+ hours per week of work knocking down your door straight out of the chute. Unless you already have several clients and/or opportunities in the bag, you're most likely to find yourself without serious cash inflow for a long period of time.

    The best thing for me has been to have a solid working relationship with a client or two. They provide me as much work as I want and allow me to explore other opportunities as they come along. Granted, this leaves me without a lot of need to actively market myself (I am known solely by word of mouth), but it has created a great way to bridge myself until I am able to get more work.

    I can't imagine starting a consulting gig without having an already established relationship with some business. If you can live on a little less to start out, but keep the bills paid with enough work from this one business, then you could easily spend say 3/4 time working to pay rent with the remaining going to foster new business relationships.

    And, don't dismiss straight out being hired by another company, all the while building up contacts and side business until you've got enough to break free and make a serious go at it. Likely it is that the company you would be hired by would be your first and most loyal business client when you're on your own.

    Oh, and don't think for a minute that because the economy is down makes it any easier. I would definetly say that the slow economy has made it even harder as a freelancer. Most companies are in sphincter lock when considering spending money on consultants. I believe that most companies will not likely be using consultants for some time while they hunker down to withstand the current slump. Once the money is flowing again though, we should be in good shape. (though, of course, the slow market might be just enough niche where you can get some consulting work due to company layoffs and low price points)

    Adam

    --
    Beware of geeks bearing formulas.
  91. Re:The ability to communicate is your best solutio by timestocome · · Score: 2, Informative

    Agreed, I did this in the last downturn and that is excellent advice.

    Go for the small to medium sized companies. When they ask questions, answer them with out charging for your time. You'll make your money when you do the software. Don't talk over people's heads and match your dress to the business, pin stripe suits for banks and blue jeans and baseball hats for garages. They will trust you more quickly and be less likely to hold back money or information later.

    It takes an average of 5 sales calls to make a sale. So spend lots of time visiting and re-visiting local businesses.

    Sign up as a software re-seller for some software you like that is related to what you want to be doing. It will help get your foot in the door, and th commissions can be quite high.

  92. Re:The very people whom you ask could be killing y by xagon7 · · Score: 0

    I understand your point, but please consider again, this is the future. In an age where the majority of the population has computers and are literate, many "kids" will pick up a language --- or future language that is much more abstract from the hardware (Java and VB come to mind), via school or a book.

    Please consider the following analogy:

    Anyone can drive a car, most can change their oil, tires, and on oftimes alternator, battery, or major components. -- Average consumer -- analagous to the present skill set of the future average joe.

    A mechanic can rebuild a car. -- Analagous to the future maintenance programmer. ... the only difference is there are far less people with these skills today, but it will be commonplace in the future.

    An Engineer can design an entirely new car -- Analagous to the software engineer or systems architect who designs the software, who will probably still see his pay remain steady as this is a highly intellectual position.

    NOW.. consider the rising popularity of Open Source and the following observation:

    "The computer is to intellectual property what a matter replication device will be to the physical world" -- me

    One can believe that software will be more and more a service vehicle, than a product. Just as people are employ mechanics to keep their fleets running, so will they employ programmers, and architects (because of the unlimited supply of digital resources) to maintain and/or improve their digital tools.

    Open Source WILL win out on propriteary software, and benifit all involved, this is inevitable in a world where concepts and ideas are freely produced, copied, and modifiable via our intellectual property replication devices.

  93. Take Advantage of the Recession by TheWanderingHermit · · Score: 2, Informative

    I know it's kind of zen, but it's working for us. It's the idea of using an opponent's strength against itself. While it seems off topic, or something form a completely different direction, think about when the movie studios do well. They're having a great summer this year, but the past few summers they were worried about why they weren't making boffo bucks. Why? Because during a recession people ALWAYS want to be entertained.

    I started by wanting to create a digital film company (I have a lot of experience writing scripts and wanted to produce them). I haven't done any programming in over 10 years (the last programming I did was on an Apple //e in 65C02 assembler when the //e was still used in mnay businesses!). An opportunity popped up where a local business man who deals with people in financial trouble. I dropped the DV film business plan immediately, took a week to learn perl, and told him I could provide him with the information he wanted.

    I put a dream on hold because I realized the business this person is in BLOSSOMS in a recession. And now a few of us are providing data for him. He's backing us to market this service to people thoroughout state and we've already contacted people he knows in nearby cities. Next week we will be rolling out version 1.0 and beginning to deliver our service to businesses nearby, but not near enough to be competing with our initial contact.

    This particular business has two STRONG advantages over many other businesses: 1) It's based on providing services for companies and people that do well during a recession, and 2) We aren't selling the program, we're providing a service, so instead of being paid 1 time for a program, we're paid monthly for our services. (Like the way M$ wants to move from selling Windoze once to making it a subscription based service.)

    There've been a few bumps -- including the fact that the head programmer (me) hasn't programmed in over a decade. I think that, in the long run, has helped, since we haven't been "boxed in" by preconceived notions or software business experience. Instead of deciding what types of programs to supply, or analyzing a market, I listened. I did not jump until I saw something that was a long term demand. I also made sure the service I was providing would basically not be effected by recessions (and, in fact, business is better BECAUSE of the recession).

    I have to add I also learned from on of the local big companies. In Richmond (VA), Philip Morris is a huge employer. When a recession comes, people may not pay the rent, but they'll shell out bucks for smokes. While it is possible to take advantage of the trends of a good economy and provide luxeries, it's important to make sure your company's base services are not dot-com flashes, but something that meets basic needs that people will pay for, even if there is a recession or depression.

    (BTW, based on our current client list and the people asking to subscribe, we expect to be profitable within 6 months.)

  94. web work for small businesses by global_diffusion · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It might seem annoying or below you, but there are a huge amount of small businesses that are not on the web and want to be. I can't tell you how many times people have approached me about creating/maintaining their business' website. These people have no idea what the internet is, but they want to be on it but can't afford the cost of "professional" web design. You could make a killing by marketing directly to these people.

    It's not glamorous and it's not exactly programming (unless someone wants an online front-end), but it's an area of the market that has been virtually untouched because small businesses can't afford the high prices that silly corporations pay. The only drawback is that "webdesigner" doesn't look that good on a resume anymore.

    1. Re:web work for small businesses by josh+crawley · · Score: 1

      ---The only drawback is that "webdesigner" doesn't look that good on a resume anymore.

      It never was... How about changing the way you approach naming conventions.

      Garbage Collecter => Waste Management Engineer
      Burger flipper at MCD's => Sales Associate
      Web designer => Computer Graphic Artist

    2. Re:web work for small businesses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think that 'Web Designer' would translate better to 'User Interface Designer'.

    3. Re:web work for small businesses by Tablizer · · Score: 2

      (* I think that 'Web Designer' would translate better to 'User Interface Designer'. *)

      Yes, but Joe Mompop is not gonna know what that means.

  95. Having been on my own in another field by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The first thing you discover is that spend more time chasing the next job than you do working the present job. As there are two of you, the one with the best people skills should play marketer.

  96. That's a consulting business, not a software one by Animats · · Score: 2
    A software business is when you make a product which you then sell to a number of customers. A consulting business is when you sell your time to a customer. They're completely different.

    If you're really doing a software business, the money is years away. The potential upside is higher, but the problems are much more difficult, and you may not make any money at all. I've done two shrinkwrap products that sold modestly at retail, but the big money ultimately came from licensing the intellectual property inside them to larger companies.

    Marketing yourself as a consultant is just another way of having a job, but without benefits or job security.

  97. Pick a different business. by Brett+Glass · · Score: 1

    Seriously. Put your software skills to work improving the efficiency of some other business -- such as selling real estate, or fixing cars, or making toasters. But the outlook for the software industry is poor. If any market with revenues of more than one million dollars per year arises, Microsoft will try to take it. And if they don't, watch out for your "colleagues!" A large number of irrationally zealous programmers are now out to destroy the livelihood of anyone who dares to -- Heaven forbid! -- license his or her software for money. Write an innovative software product -- one that changes the whole world for the better -- and before you know it, the FSF will be giving away a GNUish equivalent that destroys your market. (If they don't, then Microsoft will.) There's really not much hope for new software businesses nowadays. It's a shame, because it was long my ambition to start one. But I'm not Quixotic enough to attempt it in this environment.

    1. Re:Pick a different business. by curtoid · · Score: 1

      Allright, that was a bit pessimistic, wouldn't you say? But I won't disagree with you.

      The point to draw out is that the purpose of being in business is to create value (typically in exchange for cash). The idea to help other types of businesses become better through software is really the key. Whether that's through more efficient custom-tuned toaster drivers, or off the shelf widget shifters doesn't matter as much - but make sure to have a plan - and either execute or change that plan. Your product or service needs to be of value to the market you're going after, or don't bother.

  98. Don't Bother.. by TheCeltic · · Score: 0

    Sorry, but watching true innovators (little guys) being put out of business (or at least having their market drastically stolen) by a certain company in Redmond has made me change my previously optomistic view. Having worked at a dotbomb wireless company and having friends at MP3.com.. just further cemented my current theory that the "little guy" in software today rarely gets his due.. For the USA to continue to be the great contry that it is, we need to encourage innovators and "little guys", not encourage the current "bodyshop" mentality (Imaging if the silicon valley boys hadn't been able to fins a market without it being whisked away from them? What about HP/Cisco/etc..?)

    Other startup companies...

    Winamp (Microsoft produced mediaplayer and put it on the desktop)
    Netscape (Microsoft productd IE and put it on the desktop)
    Winzip (MS is now including a zip application in it's filesystem)
    Real Networks (MS has cloned their technology and they are almost out of business)
    Their are a zillion others (some not so small) ie: Word Perfect/Lotus/Novell/Sun (java is the new target)...

    But as you all know, they are NOT a monopoly...

    --
    =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= - The Celtic - =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
  99. Re:How to make money on Open Source software? by jcohen · · Score: 2, Informative

    "Legal knowledge is free. All court cases and laws on the books are accessible at zero cost."

    Baloney.

    It takes tens of thousands of dollars to furnish even a minimal law library. A single multi-volume treatise like Witkin's "California Procedure" can run you $1100 easily. Cases on-line? Lexis/Nexis and Westlaw cost an arm and a leg themselves.

    Your analogy is simply dreadful.

    (When I think of how much money I've sunk into programming books over the years, I *wish* you were right about knowledge being free.)

    --
    "Imaginary solutions to real problems."
  100. Reality by rippleone · · Score: 1

    I know at first you are probably not going to take me too seriously, but If I were you I would think about it first before discarding the idea quickly. First you have to ask what industry has the most money to upgrade, streamline and basically do all the other stuff that current Industries can't do because of captial. This idea came to me from the article in megarad which discussed what DEA agents found in one of the main drug cartels headaquarters in South America - an AS400 that was data mining the local phone system for info and that was 4 or 5 years ago. Listen man, the cocaine industry alone does more than a 100 billion dollars a year in business that is always looking for neafty and even more technologically advanced techniques to protect business and make the whole process more effecient. One cartel is even hiring MIT graduates to build their communication systems that so far have not been intercepted by our own lackluster DEA. Maybe working for the Cartels for a year or two could finance a more legit operation in the U.S.. But if you are worried about loosing your values getting involved with something illegal remember that our own government has a budget of 1.8 billion a year to act like they are trying to stop drugs. There is to much money in the profit of fighting the drug traffic that they will intentionally never be successful.
    On a different note, the main reason most of the current failures in large companies is in fact occurring is because of the serious amount of mismanagement. Worthless executives are getting payed 100's of thousands of dollars to do nothing but set around and make useless decisions. Here's a good comparison. One C.E.O. = 20 million a year in stocks, perks, and cash. Compared with 400 S.A.J.'s (Smart Average Joe or Jane) making $50,000 a year. In my book there is no possible way that one Harvard executive could out perform 400 well educated individuals. So always remember to not get flashy, not to get greedy and don't fudge on your financial reports and all should be just fine. GOOD LUCK GUYS!!!

    1. Re:Reality by forkboy · · Score: 2

      The problem with working for cartel people is that if they don't like the quality of your work or if they think you might roll over on them if you get pinched, and they'll kill you without blinking an eye. Don't think they'll treat you like one of the family just because you're smart. These are not nice people.

      #include legalization_speech.h

      --
      This message brought to you by the Council of People Who Are Sick of Seeing More People.
  101. Freedom and Freelance-Oriented Programming by axxackall · · Score: 1, Flamebait
    C++ and C are for low level programming (drivers, stable OS components). Stable - that's a first keyword. Customers want to trust to stable component. You don't have experience and they don't trust you. Therefore they will not give you any C/C++ based contract - because of lack of confidence in you.

    Java is rapid startup language. It's very fast: a manager of new project will find quickly Java developer (after the bubble there too many of Java developers on the market), quickly model a working prototype (OOP is quick with Java) and find that Jav sucks - it is not scalable up, it is not scalable down, Java interface to databases tends to be very hardcoded, Java is too much OS-independent (so independent that it is too hard to do any useful thing with OS from Java). So, you Java skills have some chance only at moment after the project jast started and before the manager will understand that it's time for something real. And that moment is very short - Java makes all process very rapid.

    I advise you something radically different. Begin from a small hardware shop. Take orders without payment with next day of delivery, buy spare parts where they are cheaper, assambly PC, deliver it, take a cash and again and again. Some of customers will start to ask you to install a network, a server, a database. Next natural step - they order a program. Usually small program. Usually not requiring any procedural programming - just simple clients to DB. MS Access with ODBC/SQL will work.

    Then things will grow for more complicated and sophisticated demands, you apply more programming skills and demand more compensation. Dont's forget to estimate risks earlier show such risks to your customer on a positive note: you've just saved (or you are going to save) the customer from such risks. That certainly should be compensated well.

    What I like on SOHO market - customers don't understand technical things, no religion preferences. Therefore you free from any obligation to do it on Java or other crap. Often no obligation to Microsoft crap. Feel free to use Python, Lisp, Prolog or even OCaml. Install it with Linux and PostgreSQL. And don't forget to give up all source code - as a result of increased confidence in you there will be more and more orders for service, support, training, modifications.

    Of cource it's good for you to be comfortable with heterogenious systems and various programming languages and paradigms. But that makes you a real programmer. Not a religiously blind fanatic of Java or VB. Instead - full freedom. Did you wat a freelance programming? You got it :)

    It is not difficult to recognize that such a scenario worked for me :)

    --

    Less is more !
  102. Re:How to make money on Open Source software? by johnnyb · · Score: 2

    (When I think of how much money I've sunk into programming books over the years, I *wish* you were right about knowledge being free.)

    *******

    Again, you are missing the point. The knowledge is free, even if the books aren't.

    It takes time and money to learn the knowledge, but it definitely is not proprietary.

  103. you're not looking to start a company by BitchAss · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You're not going to be seen as a company for the first little while - for now you're essentially going freelance - you're code for hire.

    I was in the same situation you are now - I was laid off a year ago (Aug 1, 2001). I started looking for full time work where I could. After a few weeks of picking up the pieces, I decided to give starting a company a try - and I did - well - sorta. When I approach someone for work and I tell them what I do, I usually get "Oh, you're a freelancer then" or "How long have you been out on your own?" or something like that. I have to explain that I'm a company - I registered my name, have a business bank account, I have a company website.

    Still, you won't be recognized as a company - you're freelance. The people I've talked to think that freelancers are somehow lower than dirt. I don't get paid on time - I don't get complete requirements, I get told I have the job and then the work it pulled. You're going to get sand kicked in your face. It's a really hard line of work and you have to make sure that you really want to do it.

    Where do you find work? I don't know. I got lucky and found some connections through a friend of a friend - I get most of my work through there. It's best if you have personal projects (that you think might make money! Don't forget - you're in this for money!) to do when things are slow - otherwise you'll end up watching too much daytime TV.

    Why do I keep doing it? I love the freedom. I've done so many different types of projects - the straight web stuff gets boring after 10 minutes, but the exciting projects just zip by. The hours rock - I can take off any day of the week I want - of course I don't get paid and I usually end up working weekends.

    Ask your friends if they know anyone who needs work done - ask family - do volunteer stuff. Get in the newspaper - get free publicity. Make sure that you're cut out for this kind of work - it's exciting stuff, but you really have to want it.

    --
    Like sex? Read and write about it! Indecent Blogging
    1. Re:you're not looking to start a company by kubrick · · Score: 1

      I don't get paid on time - I don't get complete requirements, I get told I have the job and then the work it pulled.

      Welcome to the world of business. I'm part of a small company and at least 80% of our clients behave like this, not only to us but to companies much larger than us.

      --
      deus does not exist but if he does
  104. Finally... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm glad someone mentioned this... where does this guy get off thinking he can't get a job where someone holds his hand, but he can go out there and do everything with nobody covering his back? Oh yeah, he's INEXPERIENCED.

  105. Reward back by bluGill · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Note, that word of mouth is the best reward is a two way street. When someone mentions they are looking for X, pull out the buisness cards of all your clients in X, and give them out. And tell your contact the next day you did so (if they are good salemen they will call right away to see if your friend is serious)

    Referals are a two way street, if your customers find out that you don't refer people back to them when the opertunity comes up they will drop you (and perhaps activly refer others to your compitition). You can only contact a few people a day, and not all are interested in your business, but if you work for all your customers and suppliers they will work for you a little, and you contacts will go way up.

    Eventially you hope to hire salesmen who do this, and love the doing the referal game, but even then you should refer when the oportunity comes up. Your pocketbook will thank you.

    PS, always make sure your referals are to good companies. If you know one of your customers does cheap work, don't refer them except when cheap is the only consideration, and then make it clear that cost is the only reason to consider them. In general you should refer people to the best.

  106. It's not just the inexperienced who are unemployed by Skapare · · Score: 2

    It's not just the inexperienced who are unemployed. The dot-com and tech industry layoffs were quite across the board as whole projects in surviving companies, and whole companies that didn't survive at all, came to an end. When a manager who gets to stay if he makes his department lean has to deal with a budget slashed to the bone, and doesn't have much work for those who remain to do, anyway, he's not just going to pick the few lesser experienced people and send them packing. With no work, even the highly experienced people won't be bringing any value into the department or the company, so they are let go. The 1990's saw a lot of turnover of people, so in the minds of management, once they do need experts again, they can just hire them when they are needed.

    Your statement "it has been god-damn difficult to find someone GOOD to employ" might need to be questioned. How hard did you really try? And do you offer the level of pay that someone with 20 years experience is really worth, when they inquire? Hint: you're not going to find very many of them at the local college.

    --
    now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
  107. The sun has set by coli2 · · Score: 1

    The sun has set on our economic system that is based on debt. It's all downhill from here. There will be no recovery until the system is redesigned.

    1. Re:The sun has set by mc6809e · · Score: 2

      The sun has set on our economic system that is based on debt. It's all downhill from here. There will be no recovery until the system is redesigned.

      I hate to agree, but you may be in some sense right.

      Besides debt, much of the money that funded the last boom was also savings and capital. It took people years and years to build -up these bankrolls. Now much of it has disappeared. It will take years and years again to build it back up. I know a guy who lost about 2/3 of the wealth he inherited from his father (about $900,000). It took his father a lifetime to accumulate it. It was "invested" away in about a year.

      This poor guy was really taken advantage of and got conned/screwed by an asshole VP of marketing. The investor was a good guy. Still, the money is gone. Where is the tech industry going to get its next $900,000 or $2,000,000 or $100,000,000? Was the growth of the economy during the 90's real or just the spending off of capital?

      So we have a double-whammy; squandered capital + big debt.

      And this isn't just private debt. Our governments also borrow and this will bite us in this ass too.

      Well, the 90's were fun. Long live the 90's.

  108. www.elance.com by terradyn · · Score: 1

    you could try to find work here. They have a bidding process on contracts. At first you'd only be able to win based on low cost. After you build your portfolio/credit, you can get bigger jobs for more profit. (I am not affiliated with them.)

  109. Doing website stuff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Many areas are occupied by existing products/companies. It is hard to take the market share from the others. Doing web is a relative easy road. You don't need to have sound experience on business software. Many small companies still look for someone to do the web after they got their e-mail and internet. They still need people with some computer knowledge to set it up(on the other hand, anybody can buy a PC accounting/inventory/ordering system, setup/run it out of box by reading the manual).

  110. Try going to Zombocom by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How do we capture the hearts and confidence of potential customers when we don't have PhD's from MIT?

    Just take your concerns to Zombocom, where you can do anything (including capturing customer confidence).

  111. First, know what your doing selling profesional se by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    By becoming a consultant your selling profesional services. You MUST understand that, it is key to your business model. To eat you need to make sales, selling isn't a complicated process but it is a process. I am a business consultant, I sell profesional services. Many other people sell profesional services, doctors lawyers, accountants and the SUCCESFUL ones don't sell their products like used cars. First, learn to sell your services.
    To learn how to sell profesional services I would recomend picking up a book on profesional selling called "the I hate selling book" it is truely great. On slashdot, thats all I can really get into easily. Know how to sell your products. Second to that is always delive value to your customers, which isn't an easy task and I can't deal with here.
    I'm posting this ac since I can't remember my password. But I can be reached at john@johnrgrace.com if you want a bit more from me. I'm in the knowlege transfer business. I find ideas and solutions from others and transfer them to my clients, it works amazingly well since few people are facing truely NEW problems.

  112. Re:How to make money on Open Source software? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The analogy is pretty good considering that many counties have FREE libaries with the books right there for the reading not to mention universities etc. The knowlege is FREE, the knowlege printed on dead trees isn't.

  113. i'm hiring by PlainBlack · · Score: 1

    if you're any good and live in the chicago area, send your resume to me.

  114. Opinions are like.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As so many have already pointed out, its harder to convince people to hire your company than it is to get another job.

    Don't sell yourself short, young with 3 years of C/Java is perfect for some people. You still have the drive to work insane hours for modest pay.

    However, if setting up a contract house is a dream of yours then go for it but do it a less painful way then "striking out on your own". Try part time jobs, there are always Doctor's and such looking to launch the next great thing on a shoestring. Offer to teach a night programming class at a local junior college, you will make a lot of contacts.

    Do it because you want to, its always better to run towards something than run away.

  115. Absolute Agreement: a real life example by hbackert · · Score: 1

    Just an example for a vertical market here in Tokyo:

    One of our customers (my employer does IT support) had a "membership" program and a "invoice program" to charge members for services those members use. Those were well working, but it was written with Novell in mind, the database is file based (read: dBase and Access style), running on DOS (but fortunately running in the DOS box of Win2k). The DBs were independant of each other, so adding a new member involved actions in both databases. Of course it was no longer extendable, had many features missing, was not scaleable. Basically it was out of date and no one could fix it. However, everyone used it as it was the best (and only) they had.

    Then the management decided to clean this one up and get new programs and merge them into one.

    I don't know how much they payed for it, but the whole conversion is still running after 6 monthes now, they are using 2 new servers running MS SQL Server 2000, all clients need a local Access installation as the query program was written for Access, they have permanently 3 people from that consulting firm in their building, and some more programmers somewhere else, they are using "Great Plains" (dubbed "Great Pain" after a short time running live). Calculate all those numbers and do a guess how much that costs.

    We did the member query part using PHP, a web page and a SQL Server connector for PHP (well, actually the Sybase one). Our solution is better, much cheaper, easily extendable by them (if they want, but of course we do this too if they prefer that). We did nothing about the DB as it was the best running part of the whole project.

    And we have more customers running really odd DOS programs (including programs which do not run in a Win2k DOS box).

    The point of me showing this example is: there is a vertical market. It's big, it's big money. The problem for newcomers is, how to approach those companies. I would say, it's often luck (being at the correct place at the correct time to offer something they are currently looking for), lots of communication (user must feel comfortable with you, that includes sometimes knows a potential customer for a year without work being done), and of course "word-by-mouth" which is by far the best way (cheap too). All those managers know each other. And if one boasts about the new programs they can use and they got it cheap and the service is great, that will get the attention of ther managers. (Remember: "cheap" for managers is "a whole lot of money" for a startup company of 2 people.)

    The nasty part is finding those customers. Once you have a solution for this, go and do good work. This worked for a friend of mine and me: we got our first customer by knowing an owner of another unrelated company quite well. (Once in a while going out and drinking a beer, fixing small network problems, selling PCs and keep their 1-server-4-PCs network running). And that other company was looking for IT support. Starting here, we got more clients mostly by the managers talking to each others.

  116. Re:learn from my mistakes... i did the same thing. by utunga · · Score: 1

    This has gone on longer than I would have liked. So to make a long st
    Read the rest of this comment...

    .... *click* ....

    Oh.. the full story is only about one more line..

    This has gone on longer than I would have liked. So to make a long story short: SOMEBODY HIRE ME!!
    http://resumes.dice.com/thomasmis

    ....

    mate, thats fucking tragic !! :_(

    Good luck with your job hunt Thomas, things'll pick up dont you worry

  117. Advertise by RetroGeek · · Score: 1

    Why don't you advertise on Slahdot.

    Oh wait....

    --

    - - - - - - - - - - -
    I am a programmer. I am paid to produce syntax not grammar. Deal with it.
  118. Keep your day job by Omega1045 · · Score: 1

    I have noticed that while I still have no trouble finding work, the rate I get has decreased during the current economic slump. I have done some thinking along the lines of starting up my own business / commercial software / web site/ etc. However, I have just decided to keep my day job, and am slowly building up small side gigs, which have been leading to better paying side gigs. When all else fails, work harder and keep your day job.

    --

    Great ideas often receive violent opposition from mediocre minds. - Albert Einstein

  119. Excellent post! by pedro · · Score: 2

    I've never read that one before.. a true pro witnessing from the edge of the battle hardened frontier.
    (redundant? :)
    Thanks!

    --
    Brak: What's THAT?
    Thundercleese: A light switch.. of TOTAL DEVASTATION!
  120. Get Ready by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You are in for one strange ride.
    I recently started a business focusing
    on network implementation services for
    the small business market. I have learned a lot
    about business that I otherwise would have
    avoided as it is not in my nature to sell
    or be interested in keeping good records,
    paying taxes, etc. I can tell you that in
    my instance, I get interested people, but
    no real buyers. Marketing is very expensive,
    and it is disappointing to see so little return
    on your investment. Overall, it has been about
    6 months and I am looking for a job now. Don't
    be sad, I would not have missed this experience
    for the world, and I am not giving up. I am just
    being realistic. I am not a salesman. I do not
    have the money to gain exposure to any large
    degree. In the end, I still believe in my products
    and services, I know that one day the time will
    come when people are not just window shopping, and
    I will still be there.

  121. Enough experience? by Andy+Smith · · Score: 1
    I'm a programmer with 3 years of experience in C, C++, and Java.
    To misquote Bruce Willis from Armageddon: "Three whole years?" :-)

    Sorry but it just doesn't seem like enough experience to be thinking of starting your own consultancy firm. If you were talking about any traditional skill set (carpentry, electrics, plumbing, etc) then chances are you'd still be someone's apprentice, never mind qualified or ready to branch out on your own.

    Good luck 'n' all, but...
  122. Two things to do by bluGill · · Score: 2

    Before you make your decision to go for the regular job, or on your own, do the following two things:

    First of all, go to the library, and find where they have the books on starting a business, business plans, sales, and marketing. Get some of each, and plan to read them all in the next few weeks. Take advantage of inter library loan to get more books. While your at it, resume/job hunter books are in the same area, so get them too just in case. Skip TV and movies at home, read these books. Note which are good, and buy them.

    Second, but at the same time, build your contacts. Go to church, most people at church would prefer to hire an honest Christian (jew/muslum/whatever you are) to whoever they know, take advantage of this. (Be careful though, church is for God, not advertiseing, but the socal hour is a great way to mention your business ideas in passing and get opinion, which you follow up on afterwards) Like to drink in a bar? All your drinking buddies have jobs, find out what their companies needs. Like to play sports, you teammates are contacts. Just mention that you are considering starting a comptuer company, and see what they come up with. Most will know nothing now, but one or two will come back in a couple weeks with some things their company needs improved, and you have a contact. You don't have to take it, but you have it.

    Remember, the plan is important. However make sure that plan is woth it. I planed to be a millionare by 30, until I realized I didn't want to do the work (not nessicarly all honest) to do that. So get the plan right, it isn't to make a lot of money, it is to pay your bills first. Then it is to get some luxeries, but make sure there is time to enjoy the luxeries.

    Good luck. I'm considering must the same thing as you are.

    1. Re:Two things to do by Chexsum · · Score: 0

      Church? Too bad if you dont believe in GOD.

      --
      Pixels keep you awake!
    2. Re:Two things to do by Tablizer · · Score: 2

      (* [socialize at] Church? Too bad if you dont believe in GOD. *)

      Why are there not athiest chapels? Wuzzupwidat?

      The hyms would be a hoot.

      "I Worship Me"
      "Darwin, My Ol' Friend"
      "If Thou See God, Stoppeth the Wine"
      "Entropy Hurts"
      "Eat, Drink, and Be Merry with Marry unless you are Married"
      "Monkeys Uncles Are We"

    3. Re:Two things to do by Chexsum · · Score: 0

      hym?

      Learn how to spell, Neanderthal.

      --
      Pixels keep you awake!
  123. Start by.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    making a complete office for the linux desktop, you'll be rich!

  124. dude, by jnana · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    the only advice I can give you is to just give up! I suggest that if you do not have a Ph. D. from MIT, you just scurry back into the hole whence you came.

    Everybody knows that everything of any importance exists because of an MIT Ph. D.

    Seriously, save us all the disappointment, and just give up now. It is true that Shakespeare, Newton et al. didn't have a Ph. D. from MIT, but they lived in simpler times. We, today, know that without the tutelage of former MIT Ph. D.'s, and the hard work that culminates in an MIT Ph. D., we will all fail in the end, struggling to remember if that algorithm was O(log n) or O(log log n) -- 'tis sad, but true. Save yourself a lot of heartache, friend, and give up now.

    1. Re:dude, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      don't worry, some people can distinguish between sarcasm and flamebait. Too bad none of them are moderators, but them's the breaks.

  125. Recomendations I can make... by Eric_Cartman_South_P · · Score: 4, Insightful
    1) Get an S Corporation going.

    2) Read up a little on tax law.

    3) Read up a LOT on selling, cold calling, marketing. Self help stuff too if you need motivation. Many people do.

    4) SELL, that's right, *SELL* your service. Be a salesman first, geek second.

    I did the Java programming route for five years in NYC. Fun, but even my bubble went pop and working as an S Corp has soooo many benefits. Shall I list a few?

    1) You are your own boss.

    2) You have no limit to what you can earn (no bottom either, carefull!)

    3) You are officially an Officer of a Corporation, a "President" actually, and you can tell that to cute girls in bars and it's great. Much better sounding that "Java GUI programmer". GUI sounds icky, makes most girls run away.

    4) You keep most of what you make (you'll know exactly why after reading a bit on tax laws).

    Good luck!

    1. Re:Recomendations I can make... by benzapp · · Score: 1

      S-Type Corporations are a specific type of corporation which have many tax benefits as you say in point four. However, the first three benefits could apply to any business type.

      S-type corporations are not always the best choice over partnerships. Unless you will be in a business like blasting or demolition, the need to be personally exempt from legal liability for the company's failings is not always necessary. You will get the same tax benefits with a partnership because there is no PARTNERSHIP income tax, only CORPORATE income tax.

      Not only are S-type corporations time limited by statute to 27 years, ownership cannot always be transferred. This means public ownership is not possible, and it means if you want to sell the company you can't.

      Personally, I think S-type corporations are bullshit. They were created only to appease the little guy who was sick of getting double taxed by corporate income tax AND personal income tax.
      If this was a free country, they wouldn't even exist.

      --
      I don't read or respond to AC posts
  126. Idea #23 by Tablizer · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    I am going to start a new business where I sell accent training tapes to out-of-work IT people so that they can pass as docile, underpaid, desperate H1B visa workers.

    Indian Accent: $19.95
    Chinese Accent: $24.95
    Pakistan Accent: $24.95
    Ebonics: $19.95 (May not help employment, but is a real hoot at parties)

  127. Re:How to make money on Open Source software? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They don't make money plain and simple. If you are doing business, don't do open source.

  128. Re:I think your parachute is brown... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    anyone with mod-points want to do this gentleman a favor? the parent of this assenine comment is very ontopic, and informative. the direct parent of the one you are currently reading, however, is not. thanks in advacne

  129. two pieces of advice for you by tongue · · Score: 2

    first of all, do not consider this unless you are prepared to be very poor for the next year-18 months, or you have someone else to live off of, or you have a significant savings built up. This is not something you can do overnight, or over a months time. This is an endeavor which, while very very rewarding, can take a couple of years to get off the ground, if you're lucky.

    secondly, find someone you can partner with who is also looking to start a company, but whose background is business. I was extremely fortunate in finding a business partner who has become a great friend, who has excellent connections, and who defers to my judgement on technical matters (and I, likewise, defer to his on business decisions). If you can find someone who has been in business in your chosen area or market for a span of time, that's fantastic.

    Another point to mention is somethign that's been brought up in other posts. vertical markets are indeed great areas to go into, as long as there isn't competition who does the market well. ASP's are the perfect business plan for these kinds of markets. For instance, few small businesses can afford a 50k or 100k piece of software, but many more would be willing to pay 2k to start up with it, and four dollars a customer in the database, or a patient (in a medical setting) or something like that. it allows them a minimal startup cost and they can pay as they go. you should, however, also provide outstanding customer service in that scenario, and give customers the option of buying the software outright.

    This, incidentally, is also where free software shines. A vertical market is actually a market where the technology you need already exists, and you play the role of integrator... for instance, you integrate a webserver, database, message queue, etc, into some application. there's no reason you can't use LAMP or jboss or something like that to fulfill that role. The software you're actually writing isn't much more than glue (albeit pretty damn cool glue ;).

    enough.. i digress... in any case, i certainly encourage your endeavor, just stay out of my vertical market--there isnt' room for many here. ;)

  130. Re:The ability to communicate is your best solutio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Totally agreed. Communication is the key part, and showing yourself for the people to help them out is what customers needs and that's where you get their trust and money.

  131. Be warned... by jkirby · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What I have learned:

    - ~80% of all new businesses are started by engineering types.

    - ~80% of all new businesses fail.

    - Technical people, for the most part, are not business people.

    - 3 years of experience will not you make a business success. Trust me. It takes a long time and a large effort.

    - You must be focused and have an over abundance of energy.

    - You must be able to put your ego and ideals aside when required; you will have ample opportunity to show your $hit; patience truly is a virtue.

    - You must be able to ride the storm. In most cases, life will be feast or famine.

    - Quickly gained success is quickly lost.

    - There is no substitute for experience.

    - A partnership is like a marriage. You better be ready for this one.

    - You must be prepared to fail. And, when you fail, you must get back up and keep going. Otherwise, you are wasting your time; get a job.

    - Attitude is everything.

    Jamey

    --
    Jamey Kirby
    1. Re:Be warned... by thasmudyan · · Score: 1

      Well Bill Gates was a technical guy, he also had not much experience when he started...

    2. Re:Be warned... by joto · · Score: 2

      Actually Bill Gates had quite a lot of experience before he started. If you read about his life somewhere (no link, sorry) you will see that he and his friends had made numerous "startups" (well "hobby"-companies) while still at school doing various computing tasks. This is experience that will be helpful when trying to do the real thing (just like writing toy-programs will be helpful when trying to write real ones)

  132. Your kidding right? by ClosedSource · · Score: 1

    "I'm a programmer with 3 years of experience in C, C++, and Java. With the current low economic trends in the software sector, the small software company I've been working for since I graduated is going out of business. Since it's so hard to get a job at another software company with so little experience .."

    Three years of experience is the sweet spot of programming opportunities. Compare the number of jobs available to programmers with 10-20 years experience to 3 and you'll see you have it easy. Employers love you because you're cheap and you probably know less than they do. The last thing they want is someone with too much experience explaining why their pet idea won't work.

  133. Real Life Example by xtremex · · Score: 2

    Back in 94-95 I bought myself a Cyclades and had a small dialup thingie for friends and family in the neighborhood. Left a position, was single and had money to burn..so it was basicaly a hobby, until I got more and more people wanting to try this internet thing...well, I became a full-fledged ISP, and then eventually a data-center after time...it was the right place at the right time. The it became too big and wasn't fun anymore (5 years later). Then the dot com bust, and I sold to the highest bidder (which wasnt much). THAT'S where I find it hard to get a job now. They think if you ran a solid company for 5 years, you won't want to do "menial" work...see, they're seriously confused...since in the beginning I did everything myself (from Coder, to SysAdmin to Janitor), I know how important the small stuff is. Then they think we'll have some power play...they don't understand that for the past 2 years I was a regular employee. So, if I remove my company from my resume, how do I explain the gap? Name the company, and say that I was just a code monkey or something? If you have the cash and the will, do it...The one thing I have learned in 12 years in the IT industry and 5 years of running an ISP, the customer is NEVER right..NEVER. :)

    --
    If you're not a Liberal in your 20's, then you have no heart.If you're still a Liberal in your 30's you have no brain.
    1. Re:Real Life Example by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, actually. The rule of thumb with a resume is that a lie of omission is NEVER a lie. You're a PhD and you're being told you're overqualified? Only list everything up to your Masters. Still overqualified? Only list up to your bachelorate.

      You worked for your own company for five years? Pick ONE of the 'hats' you wore during your time, that's appropriate for the job your hiring for, and build your entry around that.

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
  134. Re:How to make money on Open Source software? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Become an Open Source Guru. You can travel around making speeches about your philosophy without doing any real work.

  135. Agreed... by Twister002 · · Score: 2

    with a caveat that SOME of the MS certs are less superfluous than others (mainly the Architectures exam).

    However I have yet to find a client that has refused to use my services based on the fact that I do not have an MCSE or MCSD. They want experience first.

    --
    "For a successful technology, honesty must take precedence over public relations for nature cannot be fooled." -Feynman
    1. Re:Agreed... by CarrionBird · · Score: 1

      Clients don't seem to care so much about certs. But employers (espically the HR people who sort the applicants) do.
      Most IT comapnies seem to hire using a simple formula, the department describes the job then HR makes up a bunch of buzzword requirements.
      So the pieces of paper really come in handy when trying to get a job, but expierence counts more when trying to get a client.

      --
      Free Mac Mini Yeah, it's
  136. Is this scary or what? by jkirby · · Score: 1

    "I'm a programmer with 3 years of experience in C, C++, and Java. With the current low economic trends in the software sector, the small software company I've been working for since I graduated is going out of business. Since it's so hard to get a job at another software company with so little experience, I'm considering the option of striking out on my own with a friend with similar development experience and creating a small software consulting company. "

    Just what we need: a couple of ding-dongs with three years experience charging out landish consulting fees.

    There once was a time when being a "consultant" indicated that you are bring many years of experience to the table. Now, it is a title used by every unqualified, out-of-work, Java programmers left over from the .COM fall-out.

    --
    Jamey Kirby
  137. Re:just so you know by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're not supposed to taste it you retard, you inhale it. Watch out for concussions when you fall down though. Having something to lean against is usually enough.

  138. Re:The very people whom you ask could be killing y by extrasolar · · Score: 2

    "The software developer's pay will dwindle (except for the elite) to that of a blue-collar worker, and will be thought of as such..."

    Yeah, don't want to be associated with them blue-collar workers--you know, them people who do 75% of the work in this country and get 15% of the wealth.

    Besides, they get what they deserve, right?

    bleh :-(

  139. g0 PAcK it pUnk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    8EE0tCh!

  140. Thanks for taking time to type the msg by apankrat · · Score: 1

    I have two things to say to you:

    1. you resume is no good. i stopped reading after i ran into 'managed' in the last (present) job description. i forced to read it through - it's no good, you wont get a job w/ resume like this *ever*.

    2. you write really well, your reply was an easy and interesting read. perhaps you should consider making living of it :)

    --
    3.243F6A8885A308D313
  141. Bullshit Beats Brains by yafiyogi · · Score: 1

    The key to a successful business is not technical acumen, but good salesmanship.

    --
    Keep It Crunchy TTFN Yafiyogi
    1. Re:Bullshit Beats Brains by Tablizer · · Score: 2

      (* The key to a successful business is not technical acumen, but good salesmanship. *)

      It takes both. If you flim-flam a lot, then you have to keep switching customers and niches because your reputation will eventually ruin you in a given niche.

      If you want long term success, then you usually need both. Success will come when your product lives up to your hype, but it may take a while for the payoff to come.

  142. Try GIS Area by gavinjolly · · Score: 1

    I have stumbled into the GIS area. I had background in analysis, reporting and knew a reasonable amount about property (I now know more)

    You having some JAVA experience, have a look at ESRI's offerings that have JAVA components.

    This area is starting to develop. Where I am they are using ESRI products to develop an intranet GIS system that will also display associated data from whatever datasource they want (Sybase, Informix, etc). Currently in beta, they have developed to display data from two seperate SYBASE databases all using JAVA. Awesome potential.

    An interesting site is CAGIS

    --

    The weathers here - Wish you were beautiful

  143. Re:learn from my mistakes... i did the same thing. by mrjb · · Score: 1

    Hm, I'd agree with the previous poster. If another Joe Programmer has a more impressive (looking) CV, who do you think they'll consider first? As for your letter, I'd say it gives a clearer impression about your experience than your CV. My CV's 8 pages long (agreed, it's a bit overkill...) but it got me a job. Best of luck to you!

    --
    Visit http://ringbreak.dnd.utwente.nl/~mrjb/growingbettersoftware to download your free copy of the book
  144. Re:How to make money on Open Source software? by beswicks · · Score: 1

    Apple make shed loads of money from selling OpenSource.

    Mac OS X is just Darwin (yes I know its Apples own project), Apache... With the Mac OS X Desktop and Utils on top. They get $130 a go....

    So the way to make money from OpenSource is to make the product modular and open somebits (read base of the system) but then sell the good/purty bits...

  145. Less Experience != No Job by Captain+Chad · · Score: 2
    Companies do not always hire the most experienced programmers. The reason being that they are more expensive. If the job is entry-level or only requires a few years of experience, companies do not want to pay 70K+ for a programmer when they can get by with 40K.

    In fact this type of hiring is quite common. I think your problems may be due to a glut of programmers in general, rather a glut of experienced ones.

    --
    Check out Chad's News
  146. Some Suggestions by slashosaurous · · Score: 1
    First, it is admirable to want to start your own business. Given that you are just out of college, you probably still have the youthful enthusiasm that defines many a foray into new business ideas.

    So, here are some suggestions for you to begin:

    1) If you are set on just being a consulting company, you are already limiting your options for future growth. I say that because most consultants live an existance that is mostly hand-to-mouth, they have to keep on the move looking for new projects. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but you should understand that you won't spend all your time programming. in fact, depending on how successfull you are at managing the business aspect of your company, you may spend very little time programming...and a lot of time selling yourself (i.e. networking)

    2) It is a much better idea to build your business around a concept or idea which you can eventually hold as intellectual property. In fact, you can do this by working clauses into your contracts with your clients to keep the rights to the technology you develop for them to yourself.

    3) Many of the positive suggestions listed here list books by people like Zig Zeigler and others who profess to know about selling and marketing ideas. It is a good idea to investigate them. Always be open to new ideas to expand how you are percieved and how to perceive others.

    4) Brainstorm with your friend and others about market trends. While many percieve the economic situation as a downturn, I see this as an incredible opportunity for getting in on the ground floor of the next big wave in technology. These waves are necessary as innovation in one big area that is popular (the internet, optical networking, etc...) becomes stagnent and crashes the whole tech sector. It may be the case that your perceptions of what the next big thing is are better than the majority of people already in the fray simply because you have a point of view that is untainted by the skepticism running rampent these days.

    5) When developing new ideas, you should think about them in a pragmatic way. Many people fall in love with certain kinds of technologies just because they think they are neat. In the real world, "neat" is not enough to cut it. Ideas that meet a percieved need are much more likely to be successfully accepted.

    6) When you talk with customers, they will tell you what they want. Unfortunetly, they won't tell you what they need...When you sell, that is what you will have to target. Sell customers what they need, not what they want. You will always have a better impression with them if you do this.

    7) If you decide to go for building a product, you may also consider gaining outside investment through VCs and Angels. There are excellent books about this subject in many college bookstores. The long and short of this whole topic would be to keep your ideas easily expressible. One sentence should describe your whole concept. You may also want to read some pointers by Robert Kosberg, a famous hollywood "idea pitching" agent. His site is www.moviepitch.com and it is a good source for seeing how ideas are sold. Disregard that he focusses on movie scripts, his ideas for pitching are quite sound. 8) While many will tell you to stay in your area of expertise, I would say that you should try and move outside of it. Taking a little less money to move into new industries is worth it in the long run. You can break into these by selling your talents in specific technologies that are applicable to an industry. You will have to do some major research to find these out, but it is all gruntwork, nothing impossible.

    9) if you are not already very will organized, you should learn to become so! Handling the accounting, legal and insurance aspects of your company are all extremely relevent. You should either seek experts in these areas (others looking for work?) to help you out.

    10) Never undervalue the value of positive, experts in areas you wish to explore. Getting these people on board or getting advice from them is invaluable. Don't ignore it. Generally, many of them will give you advice for free (like many of those who have responded to your posting here)

    11) Finally, if you have not already done so, visit the sba's website ( www.sba.gov) for additional advice.

    Good Luck!
  147. How I got started by SeaWasp · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Being a computer engineering student and a lazy schmuck I wanted to make some extra money without having to exercise too much :) So I started writing a system to manage the customer database at dad's work. They had used a $1800 piece of software before that was full of rather silly bugs, which made me suspicious about future expensive updates. Anyway, being nice and all I changed my software for a DVD player I wanted but could not afford ATM. A few days later I heard that a customer had noticed my software and had asked questions about it. He in turn had talked to his people and so the word spread.

    So what do you need (or rather what was it that made me "succesfull")?
    • People at work do not want bloated software when the computers are simply tools and treated like a screwdriver or solder (blasphemy). Make it simple yet easy to learn and fast to use.
    • A lower pricetag is always a plus
    • Be able to give them support
    • Quick fixes (or no bugs at all :)
    • People who talk too much and can spread the word
    • and in my case, luck
  148. the best marketing tool ever is... by tommyleebyron · · Score: 1

    http://developer.apple.com/business/ Apple Developer Connection programs offer easy access to technical and business resources for Apple platform developers anywhere in the world. Join one of their membership programs for the benefits and services you need to develop, distribute, and market your products. you'll find many usefull Market Research Studies

  149. Joining ideas. A simple concrete idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    First of all, sorry my english, is not my native language. I will try to express myself the best i can.


    I have read some posts and i am specially agree with the ones speaks about... sell solutions, not software, find a place in the market not yet explored or infraexplored, is posible to make money with free software and is not necesary to create some new, you can focus in something already created and specializate on it.


    Joining all this ideas, a concrete idea come to my mind is that you could be the interface between some companies now are out the net, (perhaps small companies, but that have something to sell, and that things are things people could buy in the net), and the net.


    I talking about companies that even not have a computer. You could give them a complete solution to sell their products in the net using, by example, oscommerce. The petitions of the customers could reach them across short message in movil phone, (if they have not a computer and dont want to know nothing about computers).


    I think the inversion for this is almost zero $, (you can start this with your computer in your room, if you have broadband). Almost the only cost will be your time.

  150. Re:How to make money on Open Source software? by LocalH79 · · Score: 1

    By offering a complete solution to your customer, which he can't get by installing an out-of-the-box product.
    I work with a little software company (~10 employees), and we're developing ZOPE Products for a large organization. Now Zope is free, and our products are going to be Open Source as well, but by programming these Products to the specific needs of our customers, we found our niche.

  151. A different answer by PGillingwater · · Score: 1

    OK, I'm experienced in this area. I have started three businesses (the second one was an ISP, in 1989!), and am now running a business that is doing very well selling solutions based on open source software. We've even released a few open-source software packages, which are reasonably popular, to give something back.

    I've got a BA in Management, a BSc in CompSci, and an MBA -- but I don't claim to know it all, indeed, far from it. I've been writing software for hire since 1978, and still enjoy doing it, but these days I spend more time on marketing and product development. I won't recapitulate all the great advice in this thread. What I will do is give a piece of advice that will tremendously improve your business networking contacts -- TAKE UP GOLF!

    --
    Paul Gillingwater
    MBA, CISSP, CISM
  152. My $0.02 ... get off your lazy butt ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have 4 years experience in software engineering ... I have been considering starting my own company for about 1 year now ...

    And truthfully all your concerns have always been valid ... it has nothing to do with todays economy ...

    If you have an idea or you want to consult and you are skilled (and can prove it) you'll find work regardless of being a smooth talker ... just use your head ... advertise on news groups ... put an add in the classified once in while ... and be deligent ... and always Read Read Read Read everything you can get your hands ... go talk to your old teachers ... ask them if your on track etc ...

    You'll make money ... you maynot get rich ... but you'll make money and keep your self in beer and smokes ...

    So enough is enough ... put you fingers to your keyboard ... and prove to me and the world your worth giving money to ...

    Jim

  153. From someone who hires consultants by m00nun1t · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I work for a large corporate, and a big part of my job is to manage software projects. We have no inhouse developers, all work is outsourced. My job is to select & manage outsourcers, I often use small companies (<10 people) as I find, if you pick the right ones, the rates aren't excessive, they are excellent software engineers, and you get more attention from them.

    Here's the top hints that would make me hire you:

    • Price: don't be the cheapest. Price isn't my top priority. Just don't rip me off like some of the big consultancies.
    • People are busy. I am busy. My internal customers are busy. Do things that will save us time and we will like you.
    • Focus on business value. I'm not giving you money so you can write kewl code. I'm giving you money so that you can write something that will add value to my business. Don't ever forget that. The more value you add, the more valuable you become.
    • Give realistic budgets & estimates.
    • Deliver on time (see above).
    • Develop a good understanding of my internal systems. Like all large corporates, we have a large collection of sometimes confusing and often illogical internal sytems and tools. Achieve a good understanding of them, and you get a certain amount of "lock in" with me - I find it harder to replace you, as I need to brief a new consultancy on all those tools. See the point about being busy.
  154. More hard advice by JohnnyDoesLinux · · Score: 1

    3 years is usually not enough experience for ONE language let alone THREE. Programming experience is pretty important, let alone the skill to start up your own "venture"*.

    I would definately concentrate on increasing programming skill or taking business management classes, or possibly fail at BOTH!!

    Contracting is a good start because they usually demand good technical skills while introducing the concept of "econonmics" as it applies to how much money you make for the contracting company and how productive you are for the client.

  155. automation / systems by iradik · · Score: 1

    Your need to ask yourself how can I make the operation more efficient?... How can I reduce the amount of time each employee must spend using a computer? This can be as simple as making sure windows never crashes again with an effective rsync'ed windows distro. Or setting up a network folder where everyone in the co. can share pictures. Or helping the boss configure an email list. Or setting up the UPS machine to connect the staff and other co. computers in a more efficient way.

    You need to define a product and then sell it.
    This allows you to not play the rate game: figuring out exactly how much you should charge them when programming time is unquantifiable.

    So many programmers think "I know how to expand this dude's business?" Smart business men will avoid you. And those are the people you want to work with.

  156. chance favors the prepared by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The saying goes that chance favors the prepared. Had you actually gotten your act together and started laying the ground work for this move as a second, part time job a few years ago you would be prepared. As it is you are un-prepared and have little chance.

    You wise crack about not having a PhD from MIT, well that to indicates your lack of preparedness. Not to say that a PhD from MIT is necessary/sufficient, but not having continued your education is also a failure to make yourself prepared. As it is you are un-prepared and have little chance.

    The fact that you Ask Slashdot about this further indicates that you have not really thought this through (or else you'd be out there working on a plan). As it is you are un-prepared and have little chance.

    There are thousand more reasons that you have little cahnce. The only thing you have going for you is that you don't realize them. So, if you are about to be un-employed then what do you have to lose by trying it? You don't need an Aileron, computers run just find on an $8 tray-table. You probably have computer at home .... dust off that old PIII, probably use open source to keep you up-front costs down. Good luck, and get prepared.

  157. Simple answer by dbretton · · Score: 2

    If you are here, asking these kinds of questions, you will never be able to open a successful business.

    Go figure it out on your own.

  158. One secret - persistance by sammyo · · Score: 1

    Lot's of good advice in these posting, even the naysayers. If you listen to them they will fortell the future. Many paths...oh gawd how that sounds, but it's true, many companys are started many ways, it's the folks that don't give up and keep trying that get there. Go for it.

  159. Bill Gates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    His family was already rich (mother and father both coming from multi-millionaire lines), and his uncle was on the board of directors of IBM. He went to a private high school with higher tuition fees than Harvard. Few people are in the position he was in.

  160. Some interesting quotes by rapidweather · · Score: 1

    Whether you believe you can, or whether you believe you can't, you're absolutely right. - Henry Ford
    Genius is one percent inspiration, and ninety-nine percent perspiration. -- Thomas Alva Edison
    Success is 99% failure. - Soichiro Honda
    There ain't no rules around here! We're trying to accomplish something! - Thomas A. Edison
    Hide not your talents, they for use were made; what's a sundial in the shade? - Benjamin Franklin

  161. If you can't find a job.... by MemeRot · · Score: 1

    What makes you think anyone wants to hire you as a consultant?

    If you don't have a huge network of clients already, why not become a consultant for one of the big consulting firms? That way you're just a programmer, not a programmer and marketing/business guy. It will be a way to get to know how the industry works and meet some business contacts, and will be a lot easier to get into than starting your own company.

    Also with 3 years of C, C++, and Java, I wouldn't think it would be that hard to find a job. I've had to do a job hunt recently and cursed myself for never taking the time to learn Java, I saw so many job postings requiring it.

  162. Re:learn from my mistakes... i did the same thing. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Being a January 2001 graduate EE grad from CWRU, I know what you're going through. After graduation, I decided to make the switch into programming because I hated EE. I came off to a *very* bumpy start (bad GPA, no relevant internships, "wrong" degree, lived in Cleveland, OH., etc.) Searching for the first job took many months, and eventually I swallowed my pride and took a $10.00/hr scripting job at a local .com. I was horribly underpaid, but I found many opportunities to automate the scripting process. Eventually, I created two applications using Visual Basic and Visual C++. This experience compensated for my lack of internships. After nine months there, the VC funding had dried up and I had survived three rounds of layoffs. I decided to jump ship before the company sank, and wound up finding another tech job in the Cleveland area for ~$35,000/yr. I am quite happy with my new job, and the pay isn't bad considering the current situation.

    My advice to you:

    1. Get some certs. A cheap method is buying a subscription from brainbench.com and taking as many tests as you can. The certs will not get you the job, but they will get you the interview.

    2. Get a professional resume. You have good skills but a horrible resume. I needed to swallow my pride when it came to this, but as a technology dude I suck at resume writing. A good resume leads to a good interview. When I started job searching, my resume sucked and that cost me dearly. Good resume services are expensive, but calculate how money you are losing by being unemployed! Try to find a firm that has a focus on IT. Make each job sound like a natural progression in your career, even if it isn't.

    3. This is bad market for technologists. If a job requires you to learn Powerbuilder, Delphi, Oracle, etc. take it anyway. You can't afford to be picky right now.

    4. You may get paid less than you're worth. Sorry, those are the breaks.

    4. You may need several different resumes for the optimal search, but this will get pricey if you get them professionally done.

    Hope that helps...

    P.S. DO NOT get an 8 page C.V. If you don't have a PhD it makes you look unfocused.

  163. try to remember small victories count by crea5e · · Score: 1

    If I was in your shoes, I'd try and find any part time job just so I know I have no worry about bills getting paid, it will also be your business funding. You will have to be your own venture capitalist because in this economic climate there might be slim chance to nill for someone to throw enough startup money at you. This isn't an overnight process. Plan on years, not minutes or months. You have got to plant a lot of seeds in order to get a client. Every no is closer to a yes.

    A few books I'd suggest to read

    E-myth by Michael Gerber( It's actually about the entrepreneur myth and what it takes to start a business and why many fail and how to avoid those problems)

    The portable MBA to Entrepreneurship

    a few more:

    The richest man in babylon

    and the rich dad poor dad series

    They are worth the read.

  164. another useles comment on the how-to front by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    These are all excellent and completely useless comments from people who've never tried it. Here's another one of those comments...

    The trick is what it's always been...networking (no not the cat 5, TCP/IP version of it). You have to do this in a community where you have business ties already and can learn about what the small ( 400 employees) businesses are doing.

    Before you found a shop you need to find a gravy train of a customer for a good 1-4 year project. The best prospect is to find someone who is dedicated to spending money over the short term and who is dismayed by the prices the market charges. Then you provided a cut rate (say $55/hr instead of the competitions $110) and use this as a jumping off point to sustain work and build processes over the next year or so. That said you have to deliver and deliver well. That means on time and on budget and something that works as advertised (i.e. you better know your requirements management and be able to not only program but properly architect and project manage as well).

    When the project is within 6 months of completion you start shopping for new clients with smaller projects that the big shops won't touch and you begin to grow from a 1-2 man shop to a 3-5 man shop. You only take on new people when you absolutely can't do the work yourself. At this point you should be charging a much larger fee than your cut rate but it should still be attractive to the small business man because they are your bread and butter. Perhaps $75/hr in the above scenario. You just have to tailor it to the market.

    Also be sure to figure cost for the employees properly. You have to figure costs not only for benefits but also for 107% of their salary for Social Security. A CPA is a must up front as you have to file regularly (either monthly or quarterly, I'm not sure) with the IRS.

    Start small, keep it as small as possible, cater to niche markets, and grow slowly and organically and it's completely possible in any market to thrive. The trick is to know your market be willing to make less that the shops with high overhead and to not buy a Porche the first time you get paid. =)

    Just my $0.02

  165. Just something I have picked up by MyGirlFriendsBroken · · Score: 1

    I am about to enter by final year into my CS degree and have spent the summer working for a small Executive Coaching company in Newcastle, UK. I have a idea in my head that I want to turn into a product and have been watching very closely how this company, of 3 (5 inc two summer student) people operating. It has been very valuable to see an unrelated business in action and to find out the easy way just how much there is to do and how difficult it is. So my advice, try to get some experience of a random small firm, even just to sit around and watch for a week any you'll see what your about to be up against.

    --
    If you read a speed reading book, does it take you less time to read the second half?
  166. another service business? puh-leeze! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My advice to you? Get a friend with some business smarts. I recently started a business along with some friends. We are producing a software product. We started working on capital before 9/11 - and while things got tighter after, we still got funded based on the strength of our idea and our ability to pitch the value of it.

    Innovation is especially important right now if you're going to do a product. If you're going to create another service company, how do you plan on becoming profitable enough to expand? How do you plan on funding your venture? Self-capitalization? Venture or Angel funding? Good luck, you're going to need it!

  167. certs are not as valuable as solving real problems by jkosturko · · Score: 1

    Certs are no longer as hot as they were once considered to be. Over the years I've gotten networking and development certs from Novell, Redhat, and M$, and they have not yet gotten me a raise, bonus, or even a pat on the back.
    My best advise to you is to learn how to quickly identify and solve business problems. Like money, software is rarely needed for its own sake. Software is needed because of the use-value that it provides. If you can learn to identify business problems and provide solutions to those problems that are profitable not only for you, but for your client, you will be successful in business.
    I wish you every success.

  168. Customers by Ratbert42 · · Score: 2
    Where should we start looking for business?

    If you don't already know who your first three customers are, you are not ready. Go get another job and build up your contact list. The first customer is easy. Not finding any customers past that first one is what kills independants and small companies.

  169. Find an SBI... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Look around for a small business incubator. Often times they will have low interest loans available after you meet some set of goals: taking a class, writing up a good business plan, etc - all of which they'll provide training and assistance with.

    I have made use of our local SBI many times, and it's a great community resource.

  170. Re:How to make money on Open Source software? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > Again, you are missing the point. The knowledge is free, even if the books aren't.

    > It takes time and money to learn the knowledge, but it definitely is not proprietary.

    He missed the point because of your poor choice of words.

    If the knowledge is in the books, and the books aren't free, then neither is the knowledge.

  171. Do what these guys did by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do what these guys did. All you have to do is sit around, have a few beers, and come up with a good idea. Make a business plan around it, then develop away. Then comes the hard part of selling it. If you have a good application then you are set. It also helps to find a niche market. That should make selling a lot easier.

  172. Well, the best way to get clients.... by joto · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Is to ask your earlier employers, and the businesses you were in contact with at that time...

    Personally, in your situation, I would rather flip burgers. If the reason for starting your own business is inability to find work, then it's not going to be easy. Because starting up your own businness is expensive. Both in time and money.

    The first thing you should do is to start is to contact local companies telling them that you are in the process of deciding whether to start a local business and see if they are interested. This will give you a chance to see how many paying clients you will get, what kind of work you will get, and how much they are willing to pay.

    The second thing you should do is to contact an accountant, preferably someone with experience of helping small startups (i.e. plumbers, hair-salons, etc...). This is important for two reasons:

    1. He will help you make an initial budget. What will your income be, how much will you have to work (i.e. is it better than flipping burgers). And how much will you have to spend just in order to get the business started. This is important, because most likely you will go bankrupt, and it's better to see that in advance, and not start your business, then to actually go bankrupt.
    2. He knows the rules and regulations, and can help you with applying to government for grants to upstart businesses, etc (at least, that's important in my country, don't know about US, but I imagine that such general knowledge would be useful anyway).

    I would also consider contacting the employment agencies in your city. They may offer courses, etc..., for people thinking about making a startup. At the very least, they should be able to point you in the direction of somebody who does (again, I don't know about US, but I imagine the situation is similar).

    There are a number of pitfalls:

    • Don't do it because you think it might be easier than finding a job, it isn't!
    • Don't think that you can work hard at the beginning for no pay and make it work later. If you have no idea of when you can start earning money, chances are that you will not!
    • Make sure you cover all the expenses of your business in you budget. If you need a room to work in, don't think of it as free because it's in your house. If you need a certification, your company should pay you for your time and money. If you need a better car to look representative to customers, it should be company money. Just because you are your own company doesn't mean you should pay for everything yourself!
    • And remember that expenses also include your own salary. Your salary should be similar to the salary you would get if you weren't self-employed! Living for free isn't very realistic under any circumstances!
    • Be realistic about income! Client's will not pay you unrealistic amounts, and it might be hard to find them. A conservative estimate is safer than an optimistic!
    • Generally you will work harder than if you are someone elses employee, but don't calculate with that in your initial business-plans, you need some slack if everything doesn't work out.
    • If your main-interest is computing, and not running your own business, consider doing that instead. On the other hand, if you have always dreamed about your own company, it might be worth doing!
    • Consider your area of expertice, and what you will be selling. If there are already other companies offering that in your area, you are unlikely to be very succesfull competing with them. Make sure your product/idea/area of expertise is unique, and is something lot's of people/businesses would be willing to pay you for. And more importantly, to come back for later.
    • You have to be a good salesman (a liar). Imagine the carpenter doing a job on your house, and upon seeing (or hearing about) some details of the job he didn't already know about, telling you "Oh, I'm sorry, that's going to be expensive. We will need to do X to get around that, and that will mean that...". If you can't lie with a straight face, you will have a hard time selling things at the right price.

    And finally: don't go bankrupt! If you do, you will loose everything in the process. Remember that this might also include such things as your wife, kids, and house!

    If you are still interested in starting your own business, then have a go at it. But don't do it because you might think it to be easier than just getting a job.

    1. Re:Well, the best way to get clients.... by pchown · · Score: 1

      Being a salesman shouldn't be about lying. It's about drawing attention to the attractive points of your product. Think about buying a car; the salesman points out the airbags, but he doesn't draw attention to the fact that there aren't electric windows in the back.

      Also, in technology, an important sales job is to explain what the product does, and how it will fit in with the customer's business process. Somewhere along this path, engineers get involved too, but it is usually the salesman's job to start the process.

      Lying, though, is bad news. It can get you sued, and it will lose customers. Salesmen do it all the time, but it's a really bad strategy.

  173. If you don't know where your next clients are... by dentar · · Score: 1

    then don't. I have started my own business and so far so good, but I had a strong following of clients and I have strong integrity, so naturally, several of them gladly followed me. If you start without knowing in advance who your clients will be and whether or not they'll follow you, then I strongly recommend against it, though.

    --
    -- I am. Therefore, I think!
  174. RUSSIA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Start your software business in Russia. The programmers there are good and they work for peanuts. You can afford to higher at least 10 since the starting pay is $150 a month.

  175. NET? Why push solution before problem known? by twitter · · Score: 2
    There's always one microturd pushing some goofey M$ junk around here. A technology is not a business model, nor is wise to advocate a solution before you know the problem. Medical records is probably the worst place to put NET.

    NET? Thanks, but no thanks. The approach is flawed, the tool is redundant and the tool is from a source no one should trust. There may be a few places it will work, but there are free alternatives that should be used first.

    What you have proposed is "freeware" with a leash. You "give" the client a piece of software that does NOTHING on it's own and charges per use of your services. When you go out of business, the customer is left with nothing, unless someone wants to reverse engineer your old system. Normal propriatory software did better than this. It might work for some things, like printing pictures on the internet, but that just won't do for medical records.

    Moreover, there's nothing keeping you from providing these services with existing software, not that horrid !NET stuff. Yes, Microsoft is finally learning that the internet can do more. Slow, late, buggy, insecure, invasive, and now touted at the only "standard" way to do anything - how typical of them. Why not just set up a nice little Apache server and process requests through secure html?

    I'd consider offering my services more as a consultant if I were to try to make a living at software these days. Give clients a nice open source solution with the GPL recomended. This way my work can be reviewed by others and ported to new hardware if I'm around or not. Because I'm good, I'm sure my clients will come back when they want more. The hard part is getting in to begin with. Once you are in, the results will be all the push you need to have more clients and make more money. The world is full of M$ junk that is not living up to it's promise. As full as the world is, so your market is wide. Doctors, scientists and engineers all appreciate the honesty inherent in open publications and peer review. In fact, few accept less than that for critical applications.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

  176. Start with your niche. by InnovATIONS · · Score: 1

    In other words, what do you understand. There are a lot of small business markets...plumbers, exterminators, dentists, veterinarians, churches...the list goes on and on. These folks are looking for someone who knows their problems and will appreciate that you will be to address them without costing them their entire year' income. No fortune 1000 company is going to hire a company with three years experience for anything unless it it very specific. If you can't answer that question then go out and learn more about life.

  177. Re:How to make money on Open Source software? by NDPTAL85 · · Score: 1

    Apple makes most of its money from selling hardware not software.

    --
    Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
  178. Re:Tiny advertisements in google! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Advertise on Google. Be at the top of the list.

    ac

  179. My $.02 after taking the leap... by drew_ri · · Score: 1

    I recently founded a services company (rivertechnologies net) - here's my $.02 based on my personal experiences, in no particular order. As a point of reference my BG is in distributed systems development, integration, security, proj. mgmt, etc.

    Pick your target market carefully. Don't limit yourself to any one vertical, but don't use rand() to pick a company out of the yellow pages either! Our clients are primarily in banking, which works well for us, because (a) we know the business from the IT POV, (b) banks are always going to be in business as a pillar of the economy and (c) non IT companies are always looking to outsource non-core, revenue-generating activities, e.g. systems integration & development. The catch is to make sure that the services you can provide are ones that aren't 'disposable'...a lot of trends come and go, but the CIO will always have 20 things on their to-do list that they HAVE to get done. Prove to them that you can get it done, do it a few times, and now you have a valuable service.

    Develop a business plan. Go to inc.com and read up on their material. Find 5 people who did what you want to do and were successful, and talk to them. Then talk to 5 others who weren't. Consider how you plan on funding yourself. Bootstrapping a firm puts things in perspective - if it doesn't make us $, and it costs $, and we don't need it, then we don't do it. No Aeron chairs and 21" TFTs here, at least for now ;)

    Consider your competitors. You are essentially looking to start what I would refer to as a commodity service - S/W eng, security services, systems integration, etc. is a highly saturated market. Everyone can find 10 decent 1099'ers who can do that, and there are slews of companies who do it very well, and are HUGE. The catch here is to develop your core offering(s) to appeal to your target market because there is something about you that makes you 'different'. I don't mean in a BS kind of way either...there has to be something about you and your s/w firm that will compel someone to say, "I don't want to send this job to India, because these guys: know my business/have expertise here/add value in some other way, etc."

    How hard are you willing to work? Did you say 80h a week? OK good! If you are not willing to give 110%, then I wouldn't do it. If you have a wife/kids, or other commitments, talk it over with them first. Being successful at work doesn't mean much if your kids forget what you look like!

    Consider your sales cycle. How long does it take to generate revenue based on your business model? How much $$$ runway do you have? Consider how long it will take you to get the business up & running before you can actually start selling yourselves.

    Learn to think like the anti-Christ (a sales-person). Unless you are going to hire a sales manager you can trust, you will have to be well-versed in the sales cycle, and how to effectively sell your services in the timeframe that you have to work with. I would recommend two excellent books here:
    "The New Strategic Selling" by Heiman & Sanchez, and "Selling to VITO" by Anthony Parinello. (the 2nd book is great but clearly the guy is an egotistical dickhead who thinks techies are peons who get in his way.) If you don't have the stomach to sell to people, then you aren't going to do very well, unless you can convince 100 people to bang down your door asking for your svcs.

    When you get all caught up in the non propeller-head activities in running an IT firm, you have to make sure you can stay current with industry trends, what is going on with your target market, and so forth. It is a catch-22 at times, as skills alone won't make your business grow, but if you can't deliver, than you surely won't grow.

    Make sure you have 100% faith in your partners. Make sure they can contribute as much as you can; if they can't make sure the partnership is arranged accordingly. Have some philosophical discussions, and make sure that you guys are on the same page. Does he want to grow into a $10M company, and you will be happy with $100K a year and the company car? This can lead to some sticky issues if you are not both on the same page.

    So far this has been undoubtedly the most gratifying professional thing I have done, and even if we closed shop up tomorrow, I feel as though it has enabled me to grow unlike any other gig I have done before.

  180. GO FOR IT!! by borgheron · · Score: 1

    It's not going to be as easy as it was during the bubble years when Venture Capital money flowed like Evian, but it's worth a try. You seem to have the necessary enthusiam, even if you are slightly lacking in experience. Keep in mind that Bill Gates and Steve Jobs BOTH lack a college degree and both are arguably the most successful computer nerds ever.

    So, don't listen to all of these nay sayers and take a chance!! :) There are risks involved, but at this point in your life they are fewer than those you will have if you wait.

    Seize the opportunity.

    GJC

    --
    Gregory Casamento
    ## Chief Maintainer for GNUstep
  181. Naysayers are like cockroaches qjkx by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They herd together, don't have much in the way of brains, and don't have much of a future. It doesn't take much brain power to tell you not to pursue it "in this environment". Fuck them. Someone mod their posts -6, herdthink.

  182. Considerations... by badxmaru · · Score: 1

    I was thinking about doing this same thing about a year ago when I was laid off. I was warned against it for several reasons: 1) Risk. There's too much risk involved if you strike out into business for yourself with no backup capital. Sure there's the "back to the wall" feeling but that can only drive you technically and it's not going to apply in terms of finding clients. 2) Business strategy. You'll need that before anyone hires you. When a company hires an organization for consulting, they want to see the overall organization. Are they going to be around in 5 years? How stable are they? 3) Not show-friends, it's show-business (Jerry Maguire). I have friends that I would work with, and then I have friends that I'd just keep as friends. And in the first year of the business, make sure that you're all of one mind. Disclaimer: I don't have an MBA, a PhD, and now work in the public sector for the state of CA.

  183. Exactly. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Slashdot users are fairly technical and would understand what a PHP consultant most likely does. When I'm selling a potential client, I most often describe things I've already done, like making a complete order management system via the web and writing scripts "so that you can update your website without having to know any computer programming!"

    Good call, Anonymous.

    --SlashChick

  184. And another thing... by TheLastUser · · Score: 1

    25 is the perfect age to start a business.

    1. Failure doesn't matter. He can lose everything, worse case, he gets a job, after learning a bunch about business.

    2. At 25 he is probably still living like a student, drinking domestic beer, eating peanut butter, etc. His expenses are nil.

    1. Re:And another thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes - take the risk while you can, when there is no mortgage or children. And I absolutely agree, the best (read:only) way to learn how to run a business is to run one. If you stay debt free and keep overhead at an absolute minimum you'll have room to hit those inevitable bumps.

  185. question about living on OSS/FSF by Whitehawke · · Score: 1

    Gatotkaca (or anyone who is doing the same sort of thing), if you happen to see this:

    My name is David Storrs, and recently I have been spending a lot of time trying to figure out how to make a living working with/on Open Source or Free software (I submitted an Ask Slashdot on it, but it was refused). If you could contact me directly, I'd be very grateful for any advice you might have.

    Sincerely,

    David Storrs
    dstorrs@dstorrs.com

  186. Common Thread by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Ive been involved in so many failed software company ventures I couldn't count them all ...
    Dude, I don't mean to spoil your fun, but have you considered that there might be a reason that all of these ventures failed that you're not mentioning? I mean, there IS a common thread between all of these failed companies. Perhaps this alone was enough to cause the downfall of all these companies.

    Do you know what I'm talking about? The common link is YOU! You're complaining, but the fact of the matter is that since you've been involved with "so many" failed companies that you can't count them all, then either you are personally not working hard or well enough, or you have no ability to pick out a company to work for that will not fail. I'll take no advice from a guy like you because you're a loser. Loser! You are a loser in the game of life! Die soon, and get out of my way!

  187. Re:How to make money on Open Source software? by kesuki · · Score: 2

    http://www.alalinc.net/library/index.cfm
    http://w ww.state.ak.us/courts/
    http://www.acjc.state.az.u s/
    http://courts.state.ar.us/
    http://www.courtin fo.ca.gov/
    And on and on and on.... What part of 'freely accessable' don't you understand? Yes, there are expensive books that sumarize and explain the importance of decisions and how they change the laws. but every single bit of information those expensive books are based on is Freely available to anyone. You can go to city hall and request information on laws, and they're REQUIRED to give you as much help as they can for FREE unless a judge has sealed the records.
    His point is valid, Lincoln never spent a dime on his law schooling, he took advantage of the fact that all the information those expensive books and schools provide is all available for free and self-taught himself to be a lawyer. Yes, it's a harder path, but noone said it would be easy, they only said the information is free, as the constitution demands it be.

  188. Think if you have anything more to offer the world by PinglePongle · · Score: 1

    than just a bunch of programming languages. Do you have experience of some particular kind of industry or an insight into how common business processes could be improved ? Do you have an idea for an application that you would use ? Are you a member of some as-yet under-marketed-to community with disposable income ? Have you been caught in some piece of customer service hell and thought "I know just how to improve this !" ?
    Alternatively, are you masters of some arcane piece of technical knowledge ? Do you communicate well with other techies ? Have you read every single book and article on a particular topic ?

    Basically, you need to find a niche. No company of any size is going to hire a 2-person shop - the risks are too high. What happens if one of you gets sick ? What happens if the project requires more resources than you can throw at it ? As a development manager who has frequently bought in help from outside, I would not want to have to hire "two guys who know C++" and then go to "mega-shop.inc" for all the other staff - one project, one supplier. Of course, there are always the smaller companies you can work for, but they often only have small jobs; you basically end up working a few weeks, spending 2 weeks looking for new work - the ratio of paid-for work to "marketing time" works against you. Small business are also often late with paying you for your work - not always consciously, but it's a major hassle you just don't need.

    So, if you want to go into the professional services business, find something you can do which nobody else can do. Sell your ability to improve your customer's business for them, rather than your ability to crank out code. Pick a sector - "vertical market" as a previous post has mentioned, or technology (I know a couple of guys who have formed a "database designers guild"; they are well known as the go-to guys for complex database issues. They don't work all that much, but they charge very high rates when they do work).

    Establish a reputation in that area - if you have to, offer your services "on approval", i.e. a trial period or something during which the customer can back out without paying you for any of your time. I'd suggest not working for free though - it's bad for your bottom line, but more importantly, most business buyers just don't respect or trust the "free offer" sales pitch, they fear getting tied into a vendor with very high costs later.
    You almost certainly need to get a sales/marketing/business guy on board once you think you have a start. Techies don't make good sales people. You want to concentrate on delivering excellent work to your customers, not on sending out bills, making 20 or 30 sales calls a day, dealing with creditors and banks - it's not fun. Trust me on this.

    Of course, if you look at yourselves honestly and say "we're just two guys who can code", you could still go for it and make all of us eat our words - Bill Gates and Paul Allen did it, so maybe you guys can too. I'd say the odds are against you - but it's your life. I'd suggest setting a bunch of targets and check points - something like "if we don't have our first client in 3 months, we'll quit. If we haven't been paid for our time in 5 months, we'll quit. If we haven't made enough to pay our bills in 9 months, we'll quit." etc.

    Good luck. You'll need it.

    --
    It's all very well in practice, but it will never work in theory.
  189. Why I think your're wrong.... by Eric_Cartman_South_P · · Score: 2
    -->Personally, I think S-type corporations are bullshit.

    Here is why I disagree. S-Corp can be converted to a C Corp once in its life. So when you need to be big like Microsoft, or any size usually larger than 40+ people, you can be a C Corp and sell shares, etc. Calvin Kline is one example of an S Corp. Yeah, they make stupid adds, but their stupid S Corp is private, no talking head on CNBC tells them what to do, and they make SCORES OF MILLIONS every year NET.

    Another great protection of S and C corp that a partership does not provide is a "veil of protection." Not perfect, but pretty damn close. If I mess up, you can sue my company , but you can't touch my assets in my bank. S and C corps are like firewalls for lawsuits. Combined with good "Errors and Ommisions" insurance, you are protected from everything except Tort (which is fraudulant lying).

    Again, I'm not accountant or lawyer, but I get good ones to set the stuff up and always double check other peoples opinions with your own research in a good bookstore, of course.

  190. Re:How to make money on Open Source software? by beswicks · · Score: 1

    I'm sure thats true (i haven't got Apples figures), but I never said that they make MOST of there money by selling software...

    However I'm not sure what the split would be, when you buy a Mac you are buying Mac OS X and the other bundled software (AppleWorks, iDVD...) so you cannot just say that the $1500 for you iMac is for the hardware.

    Also Apple to produce software for 'standard' sale like Final Cut Pro.

    If you have got more info on the actual percentages I'd love to see it.

    c.

  191. i did it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    i haven't really read all of the comments before me but i say go for it. i did a one year intensive programming course (vb,c/c++,assembly,java,mfc,windows api,database,software design, datacomm) at a technical college. when i got out there were no jobs for people with no experience (and no bsc in comp sci) so i just tried to get little contracts. i found a contractor that was in with a big company and did subcontracting for him. i made him quite a bit of money but that was cool, i was learning (i had to pickup delphi on my own in order to do the subcontracts). it was great to have a mentor.

    now i do contracting on my own with small businesses and it is great. i don't get paid big bucks but i get by and i have completely flexible hours. they do not care about your credentials, they care about your integrity, your work ethic, and if you can talk about what you are doing at their level. i find that small business people have these great visions for their little companies and that is inspiring for me.

    anyway, all i say is start small. i am sure you have the talent and the experience to do small contracts on your own from planning to implementing to testing to documentation etc. do it on your own until you are too busy, then sub contract work to other people that you know are skilled.

    just go for it, it won't be as steady as a full time job but if you can handle that, the rewards of making your own schedule, not having a boss, etc is just great. you might have to work part time at something else for a while to keep you afloat but that is the nature of the beast.

    Good luck.

  192. Now is the BEST time to start a new software co by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now is the best time to start a new software company. First workers will be cheap, many are looking for any job. Second loans making new investments, loans and such are easier in a down economy than one that is flying high.

    It's importaint to remember that many software companies are downsizing right now, not because suddenly the world doesn't need software anymore, but simply because of the economy and often because its what their stock holders expect/want them to do. There are more computers out there than ever before and software is still needed to run them, be maintained, etc. Its not going anywhere, its not like companies are going to wake up tommorow and say "hey this computer stuff was a fad, lets go back to paper and file cabinets." By the end of the decade the economy will certainly be booming and the software sector will be up too along with everything else. If nothing else because a rising tide raises all boats.

    So now is the best time to jump in and start a company, not the worst. The opportunities are now, when things and people are cheap. Not when the economy is booming. However that doesn't mean that you don't need a good buisness plan. Any software company at any time that doesn't have a solid buisness plan and a new angle or market nich is doomed from the get go. But if you do have a new idea or a new way to do something, now is certainly the right time to start it up.

  193. Some Advice by xelph · · Score: 1

    First, you'd better love what you will be working on because it will take you a lot of time and effort to succeed, no matter how lucky you are, and especially in the current economic conditions. Persistence is key, as said earlier. Keep your eyes on the prize! Second, spend as little money as you can, and spend it wisely. If a large LCD screen helps you see more code and reduce the strain on your eyes, then by all means buy it. But do you really need that fancy sofa? Do you really need that pool table? Remember how Hewlett and Packard, or Jobs and Wozniak started (replace with the founders of your favorite company). They're doing OK now. Third, come up with an idea that is original, not some rehash of some existing software, puhleez (unless you are targeting a platform on which it is unlikely to be ported easily). And have one or more use cases to work for, not just a technical vision. No customer, no money. Fourth, protect your invention early on. Not because you want to litigate anyone (leave that to the professional assholes), but because you will be swimming with sharks (the aforementioned assholes). Whenever there is money to be made, people will do many things to you: suing you and screwing you are two of the nicest. Fifth, unless you are lucky enough to be both technically and business savvy, partner with someone trustworthy who will take care of the other half. And do not underestimate the business aspect. Both are essential. Sixth, try to remember this advice regularly, and more good advice that others who've been there (whether they succeeded or not) can give you. And never listen to the doomsayers, they don't have a clue (or worse, some fear that you might succeed). Seventh, good luck my friend, you will need it. Indeed, luck is an important part of succeeding. If you are not naturally lucky, surround yourself with people who are. And open yourself to the idea that you can become lucky. It might well happen as a result.

  194. The One Inportant Thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In all my years of reading slashdot it is rarely I post because most folks know more than me on the subjects. So I read to learn.

    However, this is finally(!) a topic where I am expert: 8 years, $7M, jobs in 15 countries for some of the biggest companies in the world, we're still small, but still making much much much more than I ever expected when we started. So listen up:

    As a small contractor clients will pay you for one thing:

    S - E - R - V - I - C - E

    That's it.

    Knowledge, experience, certifications, referrals, yeah yeah yeah, all important but mean nothing next to one thing that I guarantee you: Treat your clients like they are the most important people in the world and they will give you every bit of business possible, and tell others how great you are, and even be proud of you when you succeed. Trust me on this, it is the only thing I know.

    I have taken business from some of the biggest consulting firms in the world (IBM is only one example) simply by providing better service. Lots of people can code or set up networks or do whatever it is you're going to do; you will differentiate yourself in the market by focusing on service. And once you do you will be amazed (shocked, actually) at how easy it is and how many people don't do it.

    If you do that and remember on the biz side that cash flow is king you'll be in business until you want to stop.

    Last bits of advice, get a good accountant and lawyer, don't skimp there. Use good accounting software (Quickbooks online is only $20/month) and keep it up to date. Don't waste money on print advertising or trade shows, they are worthless for the small guy. Track your hours like your life depends on it, because it does.

    It's been so long since I posted I can't remember my login and I'm going is as AC. If you want more feedback or to ask questions send email to joeythunders@yahoo.com.

    End of lecture. Thanks for listening.

  195. Re:How to make money on Open Source software? by johnnyb · · Score: 2

    Yes it is. Think of the case of software. Free Software is still Free Software even if you have to pay for it - it is yours to use, keep, and sell. Legal arguments are the same. If I hear a great legal argument, I can use that same argument for my clients. It doesn't matter that some arguments are nicely catalogued for purchase, or that some I hear about freely, or that some I buy books about. The end result is that all of them are free for me to use for my clients as many times as I want. I can even catalogue my own arguments and sell them to others. However, it doesn't make them less Free.

    Just like in software.

  196. Re:learn from my mistakes... i did the same thing. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know I'm gonna get flamed big time for this but here goes:

    Why did you give up writing for the OS with the overly dominant market share? Technical considerations aside, don't you think you would have gotten more work staying where the money is? Mebbe?

  197. RTFM by broody · · Score: 1

    Go to Nolo and start reading. Read the small business guide (my guess is you'll want an LLC), read the Independant Contractors guide, Web and Software legal guide, and Copyright Your Software. You can probably find all the titles in the local library, though not the newest of some of them.

    I can tell by the way you ask the question, you have a lot of homework to do. Find someone who has worked on their own and ask for help. Good luck but that is all the free advice you get on a Saturday afternoon.

    --
    ~~ What's stopping you?
  198. Re:NET? Why push solution before problem known? by cr@ckwhore · · Score: 2

    Perhaps you didn't read my post. Its not about .NET. I'm not a fan of .NET either, but I simply mentioned it ONCE to illustrate the validity of my illustrated business model. After all... the attitude in business is that "if Microsoft is doing it, its the future".

    --
    Skiers and Riders -- http://www.snowjournal.com
  199. Re:How to make money on Open Source software? by istartedi · · Score: 2

    Lawyers write code. They intentionally make the code complicated so that people need lawyers to understand it. It reminds me very much of a guy I knew who wanted to code everything in Perl so only he could understand it, thus making him very difficult to fire. The appeal of this on a purely selfish basis is obvious; but is it really what we want to see from a movement that holds itself out to be more ethical than the proprietary system it desires to replace? You can certainly cite examples of OSS that isn't like this, but as time goes by people will inevitably be tempted to perform the computer equivalent of passing 1000-page bills at 2 o'clock in the morning. Nevermind that for most people or small businesses buying proprietary package X for $50/seat or even $1000/seat is far more cost effective than hiring consultants who will estimate a cost of $50,000 to provide a solution, and eventually charge you $100,000.

    --
    For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
  200. Do some research by Cable · · Score: 0

    pick the target market you are going after and then code to suit them. Ask some people in that market what their needs are. get out and network and learn.

  201. Specialization is the key! by avalanch · · Score: 1

    In my case I focused on a small market, DREs (Drug Recognition Experts), of which there are only 1,500 nation wide. These people work with law enforcement and when you get pulled over, usally are the ones who give you the evaluation. Before my software, they would give you the evaluation and they would take their notes. Then when they returned to their office, they would then have to manually fill out an evaluation form on paper. The solution provided was a Palm Application and a Desktop application. When giving the evaluation to the subject, they would also be filling out the evaluation on the Palm. Then when they returned to the office they would sync the Palm and the desktop application would pick up the new evaluations. In the desktop application would be a record of all the evaluations they performed. The desktop application allowed them to print reports, save the reports in either Text, PDF, or HTLM format, and allowed them to export/import evaluations, which they could give to their DRE Coordinator. The key to the success was that the solution provided added real value, and the value added by the software far outweighed the cost of the software.

    Good luck!

    1. Re:Specialization is the key! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      oh, ok, so the answer is to sell out. sellout.

  202. MBA Perspective on Open Source Consulting by amountlad · · Score: 1

    I'm an MBA. Atleast 50% of the MBA training is antiquated bullshit, the other half helps alot though. The advice on accounting is good - learn what the income statement, balance sheet and cash flow statement are and what they show.

    In short, income statement is revenue and expense over a period of time. Balance statement is a snapshot at one time of the business assets and liabilities. Cash Flow ties the first two together with actual cash (ie the snapshot in January said X, the snapshot in December said Y, we earned so much profit -- how come we've got less cash? Answer...it's tied up in recievables.

    For Strategy, consider two books:

    Competing for the Future by Hamel and Prahalad
    Strategy Pure & Simple 2 by Robert

    Of the advice already presented, I'd underline:

    Pull from and contribute back to Open Source projects - Strategy boils down to being the low cost producer and/or offering extra value and Open Source pulls off both.

    Consider small businesses

    Listen to the customer more than you talk

    Most importantly, build your business on your expertise, service and reputation - not on unit sales of a proprietary solution. It's the old model, and it's too late to be pouring new wine into those skanky vessels.

    Good Luck!!!

    PS For a good all round book on business that speaks plain english and common sense - Highly reccommend Growing a Business by Paul Hawken

  203. MIT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hey - I went to MIT, and it's not much better here.