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Newly Released WineX 2.2 Supports EverQuest
Mattzilla writes "The latest release of
Transgaming's WineX (details available here) now supports EverQuest. You asked for it, here it is. This release also has Direct 3D and Direct Show updates as well as fixes for Mandrake 9.0 and RedHat 8.0 CD device auto-detection. With EverQuest now under Linux I'm sure a great deal of people won't find a need to be dual-booting any longer." The EverQuest support is called "preliminary"; check out those release notes for a few known problems and workarounds.
Who needs a Wintendo gaming system anymore if all these games run under Linux?
Now we will see penguins commiting suicide.
Nero-burning ROM for Linux!
Initial support for everquest has been added, and there is some functionality in place, but transgaming do NOT support everquest yet nor does everquest work properly yet. Going on previous track record for transgaming though everquest support will likely be finished by the next release.
Anyone tried running EQ and SEQ on the same box?
I wonder if I can get it to work with FreeBSD.
Transgaming is nice and all, but it seems that all the momentum is over porting games. When are we going to see ACT! and VisiCalc running on a Linux box? What about Norton Utilies?
More games are good (even one with EverQuests fatal reputation) but it seems like it's the "sexy" side of WINE that causes the most "geek lust." What about the plainjane broad that's your ticket into corporate America?
It's the classic case of love vs. security. Will it be the penniless Citar player or the evil Majarajah? Right now, my pendulum is swinging towards the Majarah (maybe it's the recession?).
(-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
Insightful? Are you retarded? Q3A gets better framerates under linux than '9x. gg moderators
What your saying isn't true at all. I haven't downloaded winex 2.2 yet but when i do i hope for good things but im only gonig to be able to tell about 2.1. Sometimes linux ports/emus run faster and even more stable. You get the added benefits of linux on all your games. Trust me its nice being about to go from half-life to productivity in under 3 seconds.
unzip; strip; touch; finger; mount; fsck; more; yes; unmount; sleep
Why would you need Norton Utilities to run under emulation on Linux? None of the utilities are going to help you fix anything on a Linux box.
While those are clearly not as good as native ports, their holistic approach seems to work much from an economical point of view than, for instance, Loki's. Transgaming also has a much better chance of actually creating a Linux gaming market, as it almost "eliminates" the unfair competition between Linux and Windows games (gamers are a very impulsive crowd, very few will actually wait a couple of month for a Linux port)
The Raven
The Raven
I really wonder: Do we need Wine anymore? Mono will open .Net programs for linux execution. Wxwindows and winelib enable easy ports. QT allows plattform independancy. Java - apllications run under Linux OS.
Hmm, would be nice to have a OO - fork that imitates WinWord-GUI, like Abiword (sorry, not mature yet).
There are much more applications than two years ago, games, great software.
Windows Software? Dreamweaver, of course. I also like the SQL wizard of MS-Access, despite of Acess sql syntax.
Perhaps even the big gaming companys like Sony and Nintendo will base future game engines releases on Linux OS.
OpenGL is fine, but directX is superior.
Even Windows is going to be cloned: www.xpde.com
I prefer KDE, 3.1 looks amazing (forget Bluefish!)
All Linux users will now be sucked into the downward spiral of Evercrack addiction.
If you don't understand any of my sayings, come to me in private and I shall take you in my German mouth.
Q3A gets better frames running under Linux on a 2GHz computer with a GF4 than under Windows with a 133MHz and a TNT2, for sure.
Because writing good games requires experienced and talented programmers. Experience and talent come when you have money to give them. You're not going to have a bunch of GNU/hippies rubbing their 3 1/4 inch Stallman action figure in hopes of being inspired to create the next FPS or RTS or puzzle game just for linux.
They're too busy trying to write better compilers or trying to get the bad fonts out of linux or maintaining the network at their job with minimal effort so they can play solitaire on the windows machine or telnet to a mud.
What you say about talent is true, but it still doesn't change the fact that causing Linux to talk with Linux is heresy.
Uh, we HAVE been bugging developers to make native versions... newsflash: it isn't working. I think WineX is a good thing(tm .. sorry, had to say it) at first, as it will lure new users if they are able to play their Windows games under Linux. If the userbase increases, it gives developers more of a reason to write native versions of the software.
The entire purpose of Linux is to avoid MS? Oh, that's rich. Maybe you should start bitching at the Samba team and the kernel devs who add in optional support for the Windows file system.
Please... Linux is NOT a religion. It is an Operating System, a means to an end. Nothing less. Nothing more. (and before anyone says it, yes I understand the philosophy of Open Source and even agree with much of it. I just don't believe it is the be-all, end-all of software development)
-- Jim
i dont see the problem with dual booting with windows for games. just as long as you didnt buy it.
The Linux version of Return to Castle Wolfenstien is both faster and smoother than the Windows version. Same resolution, detail level, etc. Sorry, try again.
End of lesson. You may press the button.
Uh, right:
Click here
-- Jim
18.0.2 coming soon.
This is totally untrue.
I assume you're talking about the linux port of UT2003 which is slower than the windows version. This is because UT2003 was written using DirectX and was only later ported to use OpenGL. The OpenGL renderer *is* slower but that isn't the fault of the OS. The renderer just needs a some work.
Why would you want to use windows and have the bulk of your memory taken up by a bloated OS when you can use linux and have the vast majority available for gaming?
Games are very demanding and technically complex programs, so it only makes sense to use an OS that can do a good job of handling such programs.
Is there no honor amongst Trolls? If you can't get it at FP, quit using my schtick. Besides, I already told you that the "New improved FP version x.0 is still awaiting 18, not 20.
Lamer,
Plenty of games run fine under WineX. They may not be as fast, the fonts are the same (clear the bullshit out of your throat) as under Windows, any game with a 4 or higher rating is just as stable. Performance will improve with time... and the price isn't that unreasonable.
-- Jim
Hmmm... Your right. Guess that we shouldn't pay attention to THIS
Or THIS
Also, my results in RTCWolf (and other "ports") with a Kyro 2 are MUCH faster than under Windows. Perhaps you need to do a bit more research before you post lies about something that was only true two years ago, when Linux video card drivers and APIs were really immature.
To slighty paraphrase you: So, your post is nice, but it is really just there to appease Windows zealots.
Now we just need wine to work with ASE =)
:/
It actually works as root(socket issue) - except the for the fonts in the server list/player list
still reading?
I've been playing Ultima Online UO under Linux ever
since ver 2.1 and with the changes they made a week
later in 2.2 my AC97 on several newer machines now
plays all the in-game sounds as well as the midi music files running in the background...
Worth the buck$
** I also got PrintArtist up and running under it
heheeeeeeeeeeee
Have you ever tried playing quake 3 in linux and Windows? If you have you would notice that native Quake gets 3 or more FPS in Linux than Windows. Dido for soldier of fortune and the newly released Unreal tournement 2003. I dont't know why trolls today are getting the idea that windows is somehow better at running a game engine and displaying its output to a monitor.
In my opinion mswindows actually does many things wrong when playing native mswindows games. Take for example the way mswindows does a full resolution change. First it changes resolution, then resizes explorer, and then the game starts up. And it always defaults to the lowest refresh rate, which gives a miniscule performance benefit puts alot of strain on the user's eyes. Xwindows on the other hand leaves the GUI as it is, and merely changes resolution, and will always default to the highest refresh rate allowed. And the return to the desktop after exit is instant because the GUI does not need to be resized.
If you have observed a way in which Linux or X windows causes games to be un-smooth or not fast as Microsoft windows then please contact the respective developers.
Netbooks, they come with Linux or a $3 copy of Windows. Either way, Microsoft loses.
Well, Tomb Raider is one of the best and biggest selling series in the last decade.
And the Descent series is one of the best of all time.
Why not these ones?
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
That's a comparison of Windows vs native Linux. Here's the results of Windows vs WineX.
Click here
The advantage of Wine is that a developer could write their game for DirectX and have it work for both Windows, XBOX, and Linux. If WineX was a perfect implementation of the Win32 gaming APIs, then everyone wins!
Linux people can use linux to play games and do work.
Windows people play their games.
Some people will never switch from windows, but those that are on the edge (because of games) could be easily swayed because of projects like this.
If enough people are using linux, then eventuatly people will start to write games for them. It's only a matter of time.
That's what the BSD overview story said. If it runs in Linux, it will run in BSD.
Under the AFPL. You can download all the source code at sourceforge (http://www.sf.net/projects/winex/) via CVS. The only parts not released are the portions that you need ot read Copy-Protected CD's (with SafeDisk). But many games don't even require this.
I have benchmarked UT2k3 with D3D and OpenGL under WinXP and Win98SE and I get roughly the same numbers for the two renderers. I haven't benched under Linux yet but the game speed seems comparable to WinXP on the same hardware ( Athlon 1.4, GF3).
I'm lazy: can anyone figure out for me whether I can play warcraft 3 w/o rebooting?
Also, where can I buy wc3 on the cheap?
Can anyone recommend a side-scroller that runs under linux?
I primarily play military turned based games and the dearth of those games for Linux has led me to a mixed bag of solutions. One of them has been to use Freedos to run DOS games such as Steel Panthers (MBT) Main Battle Tank and Steel Panthers III. But is has been the Safedisc protected CD of the Talonsoft series of game which has been the most frustrating for me. I have spend a couple of years in a wargaming club working for a club wide game using East Front II running on a Linux box under Wine. Why not Win2000 or WinXP? Try the cost for starters, and then security issues and finally the EULAs and the service packs. I want, I NEED to run east Front II on a Linux box. To that end I have been a subscriber to Transgaming and even though I don't care for the voting system (only because East Front II isn't as popular as some of the others) I will continue to subscribe to transgaming on the hope they can finally get EFII to run. It has been a frustrating year for me, and I have gone as far as gaining some of the tools needed to crack EFII so I can run it on a Linux platform. Is Transgaming efforts doom to failure in a commercial sense? Who cares? For me the issue is to get these games running well on a true multitasking/multiuser platform and I will as well as hopefully more people will continue to subscribe to Transgaming. Microsoft's main strength has been in computer gaming but even that market is apparently moving onto the "more secure" Xbox. Windows games on Linux is an economic alternative to rising license/OS costs, and as I said before Transgaming is well worthy of continuing support. It's only $5.00 USD a month. Disclaimer: I have no financial stake in Transgaming.)
Dawn of the Dead
According to its makers, it stops being Open Source if you exercise your rights under the AFPL and produce a LSB standard installation of WineX (also known as an RPM). Which is kinda sad - either its Open Source or it isn't.
I don't mind a good closed source app (I'm a WineX subsciber), its just that I think WineX isn't a half bad product but you'd be surprised by the amount of people (users new to Linux) who jump on IRC, try an incredibly broken CVS install and then think that WineX is an unstable pile of shit because CVS often is. I think this odd licensing is bad for Transgaming too.
As a system administrator, I also find the idea of installing software in any other method than RPM very bad practice.
As for the people who don't have 2 (or 4 or more) computers that want to run linux but are tied to their games, there are games that will come out for linux, and there are games that will never come out for linux. Wine helps bridge that gap and this release of wine may very well bring a signifigant number of people over to linux.
I do security
I distinctly remember someone commenting on how they preferred EQ in Wine because they didn't have to run it full screen.
There was a win32 hack to EQ awhile back for windowed play, but I think updates later broke it. Which is rather sad. Not everyone wants to run their games full screen.
...alt.binaries.warez.linux
its all there... go grab it.
LRC, the best-read libertarian site on the web
ummm, interesting? How is this troll interesting.
Just because some developers are writing software enabling windows emulation on linux, and some are making linux look like windows doesnt even compare to the staggering amount that arent.
Go to sourceforge. See how many fucking linux projects there are in this world. See how many different things are going on. Just cause you can't see past anything else other than windows....cause you cant.
Just don't actually try to exercise any of your rights.
"getting windows programs to run on linux"
Because as linux is much newer than Windows, most programs are built por windows and most people use windows. So we try to keep compatible with most computer users in the world by letting them use the same programs.
"getting linux to look like windows"
I dont know what you mean by that, if you mean the fact that there are "windows" in the desktop, thats not windows but macintosh... In fact tiny windows have proved to look cool and be comfortable for use.
But if you mean that the desktop looks similar, i mean, you must have chosen the windows style config for KDE...
I agree with you. I laugh everytime some Linux (and mind you, I enjoy "playing" with Linux) zealot barks "I can play Quake3 all day long, who needs anything more?!?". Windows rules the pc gaming market, and the Linux zealots will need an abundance of hard evidence that the kinds of games like sports simulation (NBA Live 2003 and Madden NFL 2003) and adventure games (Vampire: The Redemption and Gothic) run on Linux.
The latest release of Transgaming's WineX (details available here) now supports EverQuest.
In other news, Transgaming has announced future plans to support bulk heroin distribution and high-margin cocaine resale.
moto411.com
But when will we see some decent parallel port support? VMWare's too heavy for what many of us embedded people need; we just need decent Win32 parallel port accesses so we can connect up our in-circuit emulators and run the IDEs through WINE.
with every new version of wine or winex that comes out, i check to see if worms armageddon will work. unfortunately, i've never gotten even to the game selection screen. it's honestly the only app (or game) i've ever missed since switching to linux 4 years ago.
of course, i don't think there's all that much effort toward trying to make many year old games work.
... which is the core of ... an Operating System! Ok, what do you want me to call the rest then? How about I call it "GNU/Linux"? Will that be more technically correct? I have to call the kernel and the rest of what makes up the OS SOMETHING, right? I could call it "Redhat" but then that wouldn't really be correct either, would it?
-- Jim
Just great... I've seen living proof of what this game does to people. Someone I know has dropped out of high school, flunked out of college ( 0 GPA, still don't know how that is possible but it is ), and kicked out of his house.
AVOID EVERQUEST AT ALL COST LINUX USERS!
Oh yea, Friday October 18th there is a special on EverQuest Addictions on the Womens Entertainment channel on TV. If you have it, look it up and watch it so you can see how evil this game is.
What joystick device does WineX use? How do I get joystick support for X-Plane, and I asked for the name of a WineX game/demo that joysticks are known to work for. I get a half assed instructions on how to install a joystick under kernel 2.4.x and ticket closed.
Well my joystick has always worked under Linux, I complained about the response, they said they answered my question, I asked them to reread the question, they then gave me the name of a demo, my joystick worked with that demo. They also said it was a their practice to close tickets without customer feedback. In general they were plain rude.
My joystick still does not work with X-plane, I would also like to have a descent combat flight simulator like Aces High both games load and run well except the joystick does not work!
Get a free ipod.
Correction: Mono devlopers will blow some guy in a trck stop restroom for $5.00.
For the most part I have never been really impressed with wine-x as a whole. I had issues with warcraft III and all i got from transgaming was something along the lines of "oh that don't work, sorry your SOL" kind of response.
One thing that irks me about winex and to complete the subject of this reply is that most Linux applications that i have actually bought, winex is the worst support oriented one yet. By this you will notice that nothing is ever mentioned on thier web site about using SuSE, and it isn't like SuSE isn't some backwater distro ? So why is it that SuSE seems to be silently ignored.
I guess they have investments mostly in mandrake and only support mandrake fully, and if the word "linux" is utter in a public forum red hat comes to mind.
I guess i take the stance that if you are making a linux product then you should at least support the big 3 (Mandrake, Red Hat, SuSE) and have instructions and more info for the Gentoo crowd. To me this would make wine-x a complete product.
For what it is worth i won't be updating my subscription, since this is really just a temporary fix and don't see much long term value in thier product as games are moving more and more to the console market. I play mostly on my PS2 anyhow warcraft 3 was a small exception. But now i just play on my Mac with no goofy tricks i just play it, which is all i wanted to do in the first place.
You can run the Windows version of UT2003 with OpenGL. There is some information (including some benchmarking) on that here.
In a flyby benchmark of Citadel Linux scored 48.9fps, while Windows scored 43.6. In Direct3D mode, Windows scored 63.9 fps.
Why do I keep typing pythong?
Bill Clinton is upset he didn't get the "Fat Ho Piece" prize.
Myself being a former everquest addict, I must agree with parent. It took over my life for a whole year, failed highschool, etc. It was my life. I'm slowly recovering but its still EXTREMELY hard and every time I read something about that game it just makes me more depressed... As the parent said, AVOID EVERQUEST AT ALL COSTS! Its not worth it.
But to handle the GUI aspects of
Kind of a vicious little circle, isn't it?
It's a compelling argument you make. My office is currently investigating a Microsoft Outlook deployment. I eagerly searched for open-source/free software alternatives that achieve the same integrated functionality, and came up lacking.
It's better to use free software on a non-free operating system than to use no free software at all, but it's worthwhile to examine the possibility that the Cygwin project, among others, are making it easier for people to stay with Microsoft Windows than use GNU/Linux, just as it's worthwhile to wonder whether Wine and WineX are are keeping more people tied to Windows as well.
My personal experience? Administrators using Cygwin become very impressed with the power of the *nix-like environment. They begin using it on a day-to-day basis, and see no reason to stop using Microsoft Windows on their desktops.
Until the day they run up against the huge limitations of using Cygwin, be it the performance penalty, lack of target platform support in many popular software packages, or simply any one of a string of painful interoperability problems. They then install GNU/Linux on a second partition or a second machine, and experience the full power of the operating system, and amazing graphical user interfaces which have been blazing trails for the last 2 years that Microsoft has attempted to follow. In turn, the best innovations of the MS desktop have been integrated into these free projects, as well.
So I'd have to say that because of the enormous minority situation GNU/Linux is in, Cygwin and running free software applications on a proprietary operating system like Microsoft Windows is an excellent "Gateway Drug" for power users, and eventually lesser users. Likewise, being able to run non-free software on a free system eventually leads to the replacement of that non-free piece by those who value software freedom over the convenience or entertainment value of the non-free software.
From my point of view, all roads lead to the ultimate "killer app" of the GNU/Linux world: the General Public License and the open culture it forces on otherwise selfish individuals and corporations. Yep, it's viral, and those who wish to take away software freedom hate it. Heck, a lot of freedom-loving individuals hate it too because it infringes on *their* individual freedom by requiring them to contribute their code back to the common pool. Love it or hate it, it's the reason why people are migrating to GNU/Linux from proprietary systems (of all types) in unheard-of numbers.
Matthew P. Barnson
I learn what I think when I read what I write
Anyone else notice this problem? (ot)
I notice that msie 6 "waits" 20 or 30 seconds before going to get the web page you have clicked on. I've seen this on several machines. Opera, Netscape, Mozilla for Windows and Linux don't exhibit this annoying trait. What is going on? It can't be in the windows dialup software, as Opera 6.05, for instance, dives right in and gets your page. It's so bad on Internet Explorer 6 sometimes, that it quits, and displays the "can't get the page" message! Now, about the topic at hand: Although one can now run Everquest on a Linux box, this seems to be the long way around, and wouldn't this require more cpu power, memory, etc than running Everquest on Windows 98 or XP?
I tried WineX once, and I wasn't impressed, but now, I suppose, it is greatly improved. (I just don't have the hardware to run it well)
Rapidweather's Linux Screenshots.
RPMSs are OK. Read the license. TG does discourage them (so there is an incentive to subscribe) but it's permitted legally.
So tell me, Anonymous Troll, have you actually tried any of these games with the latest WineX?
The day DAoC works is the day my Windows partition gets fragged. And there will be much rejoicing.
Who needs sports games when you can go out and actually play sports? Or have you gotten too fat from sitting at your computer all day trolling?
I'm so sorry, then...
You know, if we could get a few hundred thousand linux gamers to say, "I will only buy your game if you release a linux version", would be pretty effective.
There is no reason that games cannot be written for Linux just as they are for Windows. There's just no financial incentive to do so right now.
If the emulation becomes complete, then you wind up with the Commodore 128 problem.
Why develop for the 128 when you could use that nifty Commodore 64 mode that was built in. The 128 platform became a joke because of this.
Maybe they will still need to reboot if they want to do anything remotely interesting or current with their computer. Sorry...Linux is simply not ready for the desktop.
Hey jim are you sure that is the link you wanted? Given the conclusion of that article is:
In general, Windows performance is at least twice what WineX can deliver.
Did your religious fevor prevent you from reading the whole article?
bitter aren't we... (-:
I don't have a problem with rebooting either, I do have a problem with having to maintian a massively bloated partition for windows that could be better used
-- powered by a beowulf cluster of chimpanzees - a 1000 monkeys at a 1000 keyboards strapped together with duct-tape.
:)
:)
That was great, man.
I noted with interest that pre-compiled binaries are only available to WineX subscribers. I noted with interest that there *were* WineX subscribers.
Whilst I'm all in favour of Transgaming turning a profit, It seems a little misguided to be passing the bill to consumers (who have already forked out for the game), instead of publishers (who are the ones really reaping the rewards).
I also noted that they make the source (sans-Safedisc etc) available for free. In that vein, has anyone made precompiled (sans-Safedisc) binaries from the CVS tree available for download?
If so, where?
If so, what was Transgaming's take on this?
Washington Irving
Given that:
a) most Everquest addicts only eat/sleep/shower after a Windows BSOD ends their 15 hour EQ session;
b) Linux can run for months or even years without a reboot;
I conclude that this is a bad idea.
--All your stolen base are belong to Rickey Henderson
On my system, which (at one point) had WinNT 4.0 on it as well as my Linux install, running Q3A yielded slightly better frame rates under Linux.
May we never see th
I'm in a class taught by one of the people that recently was doing work on the UT engine, and he seems to pretty strongly prefer OGL.
Come to think of it, Nvidia liked OGL over DX as well (easier to get support for new features in).
May we never see th
You have neglected Uhrmacher's Theorem, which states that every new technological development will find first application in gaming and pornography.
I eagerly searched for open-source/free software alternatives that achieve the same integrated functionality, and came up lacking.
What, precisely, is it that you want "integrated"?
Administrators using Cygwin...
CygWin is awfully slow. When I'm on Windows, I stick with the native, though less capable (i.e. no usable alternative shell) UnxUtils and CygWin.
God, Windows has an *awful* virtual terminal, though. I keep wishing that I could use PuTTY's interface to talk to the local machine directly.
May we never see th
From a few other posts here, it looks like you can Alt-Tab out of the game without crashing out. If this is true, I have a list of Windows-only gamers as long as my arm who will switch to linux in a heartbeat. Sitting in MMOs for hours without the ability to check your IMs, email, or edonkey status....it's torture. And logging out is not an option. If wine is a solution to the Alt-Tab "bug" in all the MMOs, we could find a serious 'switch' campaign topic.
Starting a new character and levelling to about 15 is quite fun. But after that it is dull and repetitive. There is no sense of accomplishment or variety to the game, you go up a level, get a few new skills, kill different creatures, you twink, you camp (a lot), you craft, you sit around,
I'm not saying other MMPORPGs of the same generation are much better either. I tried Asherons Call (excruciatingly boring and crap graphics) and Dark Age of Camelot (beautiful UI & scenery but anally retentive looting and other misfeatures).
Still I guess that Wine would benefit from supporting EQ if only because whatever had to be implemented to support it will benefit other games and apps too. I recall that Wine couldn't do CreateProcess calls properly and perhaps that is what has changed to support the EQ launching mechanism.
It doesn't emulate the CPU. That's what it means by 'not an emulator'.
As a system administrator (among other things), I find that using RPMs are the sure path to unmaintainability and broken systems. Considering that it is *easier* to build from source as well as less problems, I can't imagine any serious admins using RPMs.
Debians apt system at least keeps track of dependencies and test the stuff they release... but RPMs? Give me a break. Just do something else while the source compiles, and you will save yourself a lot of future problems. And you'll often get better software. :)
I LOVE YOU TRANSGAMING
I find your post quite typical of /. myself: loud, rude, lacking supporting arguments, and illustrating a fundamental misunderstanding of your topic.
As a system administrator (among other things), I find that using RPMs are the sure path to unmaintainability and broken systems.
Why not provide some supporting arguments? I'll go first: standardized install, uninstall, querying, verification, GPG signing, and repeatability, LSB compliance.
Considering that it is *easier* to build from source as well as less problems
Er, if you think that building from source is somehow seperate from RPM than you have very little understanding of the packaging system you're dismissing.
Debians apt system at least keeps track of dependencies and test the stuff they release...
Huh? Comparing apt to RPM makes no sense and again shows very little knowledge of packaging systems and their function. rpm and dpkg are packaging systems. up2date, apt, and urpmi are frontends (which all work on top of RPM - one works on top of dpkg too) to index the packages and then resolve dependencies using these indexes. Again, comparing a front end to a packaging system makes little sense. Again, there are many other tools that to automatically resolve dependencies using Linux Standard Base (RPM) packages and these tools have existed for years (in up2date's case, since Red Hat 6).
>Uh, we HAVE been bugging developers to make native versions... newsflash: it isn't working.
As a game developer I can give some insight for why. These are all inter-related but I'll break them down regardless:
1. Money - It's a believed (rightly or wrongly) to be a bad investment to spend money paying extra developers to write a product when the market (Mac/Linux) is, unfortunately, 5% of your total sales.
2. Time - With today's tight deadlines, there is no time to develop for other platforms. The attitude is: compile it, fix it, ship it. The more platforms you confine your code to, the less unknowns you have to deal with. This goes the same for PCs and consoles.
3. Complexity - Writing cross platform code introduces another level of abstraction. New code needs to be debugged.
Why can Id, and Epic develop native Linux versions? Because they can afford to -- their schedule is not mandated by their publisher.
That said, there are a few programmers who see the advantages in cross platform development:
- Your code ends up being way more robust as you find hidden bugs amongst the various OS implementations
- You're forced to abstract to a common API (i.e. better design)
I'd like to end with this note: register Linux UT2K3 -- because the only way there will ever be mass Linux support for games, is by having one person at a time do their part.
Cheers
--
" The issue today is the same as it has been throughout all history, whether man shall be allowed to govern himself or be ruled by a small elite."
~ T.'. Jefferson
> What, precisely, is it that you want "integrated"?
:)
At this point, I want just a few, simple things that I take for granted in a business accounting package:
* Automated invoicing. This means that I enter the invoice information, and the accounts receivable information is automatically entered into my books. Also, that I can print out the invoice from the accounting package, and record that I printed it. Envelope labelling based on invoice information, and the ability to get the address information when I click on the accounts receivable entry would be a nice bonus.
* Check printing
* Payroll "understanding". I mean, enter the tax information for the employee one time, and from that point on when you verify gross pay the taxes will already be resolved.
These three things would make a business accounting package usable for me. At this point, GNUCash is a nice personal finance utility, but fairly inadequate for business usage. If it annoys me enough, eventually I may get around to writing some modules for it, but my business has been shelved temporarily (due to the economic climate) while I do a regular, full-time gig to pay the bills
>native, though less capable (i.e. no usable alternative shell) UnxUtils
I've used unxutils as well. They are OK. For routine, automated systems administration, though, they are simply maddening! I'm not terribly concerned about the latest software rollout working "fast", so Cygwin's slowness is irrelevant. I just want the software update rolled out across some 300 NT/2K workstations at some point over the course of the day.
However, I've tried to use cygwin to run KDE before (in hopes that I could somehow have an "integrated" platform to work from, using the GNU/Linux interface with which I'm familiar, running atop Win32), and it definitely is incredibly slow for some apps. Wine is lightyears ahead of Cygwin, performance-wise, IMHO. Of course, we're comparing apples and beach balls, here, so it's entirely my subjective opinion.
Matthew P. Barnson
I learn what I think when I read what I write
Dude:
;)
http://openraider.sf.net
I'm getting it ready for multiplayer and per pixel lighting too. I'm just waiting for the parts to my new machine and some free weekend.
You know, you generate more pure textual data per time unit than anyone I've ever seen on Slashdot. :-)
Wine is lightyears ahead of Cygwin, performance-wise
I'd be more inclined to say that the Linux underpinnings are lightyears ahead of the Windows underpinnings...running on an operating system without support for shared fork and a couple of other fundamental features, there's not a lot that the cygwin guys can do.
May we never see th
> You know, you generate more pure textual data per time unit than anyone I've ever seen on Slashdot. :-)
:-) I'm thinking of starting my own blog so that I can expound in more detail, and simply provide a link from Slashdot so I don't exposit more than the underpinnings of the argument in the thread of the discussion, saving the reams of ruminations for another forum...
.01 Linux kernel was not yet ready for prime-time, real threading was not introduced until the 2.2 series (with varying definitions of "real"), yadda yadda yadda. Fundamentally, the operating system that "took over the world" was Microsoft Windows 95. It has now been largely abandoned in favor of Windows XP, just released last year. For much of the last seven years, however, GNU/Linux has remained fundamentally the same: a 32-bit UNIX-like kernel using free GNU tools. No painful migrations, like for MS Windows users in 1995, to a 32-bit shell running on a 16-bit operating system.
Non-geek translation: I write too much
> I'd be more inclined to say that the Linux underpinnings are lightyears ahead of the Windows underpinnings
Again, I concur. However, I try to avoid such language generally because people come to regard it as flamebait for a Microsoft Windows vs. GNU/Linux debate. That said, many Linux kernel abilities (such as true multithreading) are of comparatively recent date... there's definitely some mutual "chasing the taillights" going on.
Interesting to me, however, is that Microsoft Windows NT development was inaugurated in 1987, with release in 1993. Linus Torvalds unleashed the Linux kernel on August 25, 1991. It seems the reality is that GNU/Linux, far from being an "upstart" operating system, predated Microsoft's second 32-bit operating system (OS/2 was their first) by two years. However, it's tough for me to be positive of the data prior to 1995, when I discovered GNU/Linux and started goofing with it from time to time, finally using it seriously and full-time in 1997.
The usual weasel-words apply: the
My personal feeling is, with tools like WineX, we are bringing more and more advantages to the GNU/Linux table. People I know are converting, or at least running a second box to check it out, which would have been almost unheard of outside of geek circles seven years ago. The consensus-based development model for many free software projects may be a very slow process, but it is one that develops an enormous momentum. Eventually, Windows users that are accustomed to making upgrades every 2-4 years will simply make the ultimate upgrade to a GNU/Linux system.
Wow, cripes, I'm lapsing philosophical this morning. And long-winded, as always.
Matthew P. Barnson
I learn what I think when I read what I write
Why would you want to use windows and have the bulk of your memory taken up by a bloated OS when you can use linux and have the vast majority available for gaming?
Yeah, as long as you aren't running GNOME with Nautilus as your desktop manager. But with memory being so inexpensive does it really matter?
'Same speed C but faster'
It IS possible (read the forums) to get beyond the patcher.
:(
The patcher opens up a VERY large number of files, larger than the default max # of open files under most distros. There's info on the forums on how to increase this number.
Of course, you don't get very far beyond the patcher...
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
What's your problem with his post?
He states that DAoC doesn't run under WineX, and that the people on Transgaming's site have actively been devoting any and all RPGs with a scant few exceptions. (I've seen this firsthand. I retaliate by negatively nuking every non-RPG I see.)
You then state that DAoC is the only thing keeping Windows on your machine...
p.s. What server/realm? 44 theurg (Ezra) Lancelot Albion
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
I think John Carmack would disagree with you here.
In fact, a few years ago, after leaving MS, the guy in charge of marketing DirectX admitted that DX was inferior to OpenGL and had some SERIOUS flaws. (Mainly, a REALLY ugly and unclean API - GLQuake was done in a VERY short time, whereas Carmack said that after looking at the ugliness of the DX APIs he didn't even know where to start)
Let's not forget that a lot of features that are "bleeding edge" in DX are usually standardized long before in OpenGL. (This can be attributed to the fact that OGL has a heritage in high-end graphics, which usually leads consumer 3D by a year or two or more, or at least used to.)
Also, OpenGL is fully cross-platform, wherease DX is extremely closely tied down to Win32 - Another strike against DX.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
You obviously have no clue what you're talking about. The "alt-tab" bug is an APPLICATION problem, not an OS problem. (Well, maybe a generic Win32 problem)
Win2k doesn't help you in the situations the original poster is talking about. Neither does XP. I have firsthand experience with this issue with DAoC under 98SE, Win2k, and WinXP. (Currently running 2k)
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Fellow programmer, greetings! You are reading a letter which will bring
you luck and good fortune. Just mail (or UUCP) ten copies of this letter
to ten of your friends. Before you make the copies, send a chip or
other bit of hardware, and 100 lines of 'C' code to the first person on the
list given at the bottom of this letter. Then delete their name and add
yours to the bottom of the list.
Don't break the chain! Make the copy within 48 hours. Gerald R. of San
Diego failed to send out his ten copies and woke the next morning to find
his job description changed to "COBOL programmer." Fred A. of New York sent
out his ten copies and within a month had enough hardware and software to
build a Cray dedicated to playing Zork. Martha H. of Chicago laughed at
this letter and broke the chain. Shortly thereafter, a fire broke out in
her terminal and she now spends her days writing documentation for IBM PC's.
Don't break the chain! Send out your ten copies today!
For example, if \thinmskip = 3mu, this makes \thickmskip = 6mu. But if
you also want to use \skip12 for horizontal glue, whether in math mode or
not, the amount of skipping will be in points (e.g., 6pt). The rule is
that glue in math mode varies with the size only when it is an \mskip;
when moving between an mskip and ordinary skip, the conversion factor
1mu=1pt is always used. The meaning of '\mskip\skip12' and
'\baselineskip=\the\thickmskip' should be clear.
-- Donald Knuth, TeX 82 -- Comparison with TeX80
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