Slashdot Mirror
Week-Long Free-Software Class for Kids?
mmol_6453 asks: "I have the opportunity to submit a plan for a week-long class about 'Alternative Operating Systems' to our local community college's Computer Camp. The students will be aged 8-16. We've had classes attended by students who used Linux, but we've never set up a class with alternatives as options. We've found that students in this age range, when interested in the material, can absorb a great deal of information in a short time. This means there's a lot of potential to teach them about Linux, *BSD, and open-source. We often get extremely bright students here, the kind who are likely to go out and earn $80,000/yr in a post-90s economy. Some of them are even on Slashdot. I want to give the rest a boost in the right direction."
"Considering that the great deal of material to choose from, I need to ask the Slashdot Community its advice:
- Do they need to know how to install the OS first, or should I let them look that up on their own while I make them power-users?
- What distributions of Linux and BSD should they be first introduced to? (I'm only familiar with Debian, and I know virtually nil about *BSD.)
- Initially, do they need to be more adept at the GUI, or do they first need to know how to use the shell?
- Should I give away Debian CDs no-questions-asked, or should I talk with the almighty Parents so little Daniel doesn't install Linux over Dad's 'work computer.'
- Are there any other key issue I need to think about?"
Some of them are even on Slashdot. I want to give the rest a boost in the right direction."
Aren't the kids in the first group the dangerous ones?
I would suggest Patrick Naughton.
Do they need to know how to install the OS first, or should I let them look that up on their own while I make them power-users?
You shouldn't assume that they know how to install operating systems. The main thing is that it takes a long time to install software, let alone an entire operating system.
What distributions of Linux and BSD should they be first introduced to? (I'm only familiar with Debian, and I know virtually nil about *BSD.)
The one that they are most familiar with, in terms of GUI.
Initially, do they need to be more adept at the GUI, or do they first need to know how to use the shell?
As mentioned above, the one with the GUI will produce better results.
Who takes a whole week to teach kids Gnutella?
Oh...Free OS. Sorry. My bad.
Any sufficiently well-organized Government is indistinguishable from bullshit.
You're such a cute little cocksmoker. Do you have a single original thought in your head or do you just ape what your superiors say all the time? YUO = teh goatse
I love your idea. Wish I'd had this opportunity as a kid. But what exactly is the QUESTION in this particular ASK SLASHDOT? Just curious, not trolling. :)
You are not the customer.
Beautiful and usable GUI and the BSD roots are only a few clicks away
And just what is this "right direction" that you are talking about?
likely to go out and earn $80,000/yr in a post-90s economy
:)
Have you looked at the stock market lately?
Start 'em off by teaching them to set up a dual-booting system. That way you're introducing the OS to them in less of a "sink or swim" approach.
Stay with a simple-to-install distribution to start, like Mandrake. Once they're comfy with the KDE screens, you can introduce them to the wonder that is the command line.
...the kind who are likely to go out and earn $80,000/yr in a post-90s economy.
Do you take 27 year old students?
I wear pants.
1.Install
2.Doesnt matter
3.CLI please
4. Definitely ask the rents.
5.Dunno
I would really start with installs...and do it with an easy to customize system..show them you can have a full system running with very little diskspace(floppy, even)...then show them how you can add things, and end up with a full fledged desktop OS. Show them the many faces of Linux(r). And CLI is very important, specially in Linux...you aren't really a power user without it. Just my 2 cents.
Which do people learn first: How do drive, or how to rebuild a car's engine?
Show the kids the cool things they can do with the software first, and once they're interested, then they will understand why they need to learn how to install it and do that on their own.
I wouldn't teach them installation, I think it's far more important to get them using the system. I would start them out with some command-line stuff, though. That'll give them some historical perspective, and reduce the fear-factor if they ever need to go into command line to recover from a crash. I would definitely warn the parents about the CDs.
Brevity is the soul of wit
-- Polonius
Maybe a lesson in Java
IBM's RoboCode would be a great filler for a few days!!
Then there is the given of OpenOffice, Mozilla, GIMP, and your choice of instant message programs.
For the advanced camp, bring in some of your projects from work and have them migrate to Linux!
Show them how to install a free os, then teach them a shell. If anything ever goes wrong, usually a shell can fix it on most all operating systems. I might even stay away from a gui until they have taken an intro class and learned the basics of a shell.
I would talk with mom and pop before giving away CDs and adress any questions they have about "free" software and piracy.
It's funny because it's true.
You should give away Knoppix
Knoppix is a Debian based LiveCD distribution. It runs directly from the cd. No worries about dads computer getting it's partition table wiped. You could hand these out to the kids day one with no worries.
It contains KDE, OpenOffice, KDevelop, xmms, Mozilla... The list goes on and on. IIRC there is 1.6 gigs on the CD.
If they are so bright as you say Im sure they will force the allmighty parents to buy an apple computer :)
I fought the corporate America, and the corporate America bought the law.
n/t
F udge
P acker
!
What the hell happened to this article: "TIA Preview: Here's Lookin' At You"from the front page, Timmah?!
- Start off by explaining "FREE". Explain both free as in speach and free as in beer... though maybe not in those terms considering the age group.
- I would stay away from an install of Linux, you could be there all week answering questions on it alone (What does this package do?). Also, stick with a distro you know, but point out all the others. Nothing worse than not knowing right away where that config file is.
- Next up, make sure they're familiar with whatever editor you plan to use. Leave it open to use more complicated editors (vi) if they know it, but otherwise stick to simpler ones.
- Give lots of handouts/links to sites with further information
- Pick a few languages that you are very familiar with, be it PERL, PHP, C, etc.
- Get some interesting projects for them to work on, be it a webpage, game, utility, etc
That's about all I could come up with quickly.The title of the course reminds me of the term "Alternative Lifestyles." In that case, give 'em macs.
I speak from experience, having been a camp counsellor at a computer camp for two summers.
You'll lose the kid's interest unless you're giving them something to do at all points.
Since that's a given, I wouldn't get them to do an install. You might want to walk through a slideshow install or something, but the interminable waiting will get the kids bored and throwing things in a hurry.
Teach them the shell - teach them perl, turn them loose with a bunch of tools at their disposal, and see what they do.
We had one kid test the limits of wordpad, using copy/paste/select-all/repeat. He had a great old time, and actually gathered a crowd, as he was "breaking" things.
Show them how to build a dialectizer in perl - you'll be amazed at the fun they'll have with that.
Keep it fun. End of story.
You might want to have two separate ciriculums if you have such a wide age range in students. I think it would probably be damn near impossible to come up with something that was as engaging to someone in 2nd grade as it was to someone in 10th grade.
First of all, I think you need to ask yourself exactly what it is you want to teach them. If this is about "alternative operating systems", then are you going to teach them ABOUT operating systems? Most people don't even understand where the application stops and the operating system beings. So is it going to be:
A class on how to use Linux and run various user applications?
A class on setting up and administering various Linux server apps?
A class ABOUT operating systems, how they work, and the differences in technical philosophy among them?
A class about programming?
A class about Unix and its history?
It sounds like you haven't really pinned down what this class is about, other than you want Linux/BSD involved. I think it would serve you well to set back from the details of the course, and ask yourself exactly what concepts you want the kids to walk away with.
That said, given its a computer camp, etc, I would take the opportunity to teach about operating systems and what they do. Don't bother having both Linux and BSD, they are effectively the same thing (Unix). Have a Windows box, a Macintosh and Linux, and talk about the technical philosophies of each. Note that the Macintosh, while technically a Unix, does overlay a lot of technology, which creates a lot of interesting opportunity for discussion about where the operating system stops and the applications begin.
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
You could try distributing Knoppix or one of the other Live-CD distros, to reduce the chance of Little Jo partitioning away mummy's accounting data.
Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
2)Show them distributions that "do" what THEY expect a computer to do (run progs in a GUI, office type stuff, some games (that's hard!)) Redhat is so standard, you're almost obliged to show it, Mandrake and SuSe are great for introductions too.
3)Show them the console from WITHIN the gui (merging the advantages of a GUI with the power of a command line) -EXPLAIN what either is good for.
4) tell the parents... before some kid tries his hand at fdisk on a father's Vaio
5)Emphasise the "community" idea that is very much at the heart of Linux, also explain WHY a monopoly position by a single OS is bad.
one might consider talking about the whole opensource attitude.
just my thoughts.
Machine9dotNet
You should introduce them to Knoppix. Then you can even give them the CD to bring home because it is highly unlikely they will accidently hurt anything.
Get them the basics, then show them why they blow MS out of the water, while getting them productive on the OSS OS.
You are not the customer.
The speed of their computer is not too important, Beos runs great on a P200.
There is a pile of software on BeBits (see my present sig), and it is easy to install.
It has a UNIX-esqe command line with many similar commands.
The Personal edition can be installed as a file on Windows and requires just 500 some megs.
Lots of hints and info on the BeOS Tip Server.
The GUI is easy and fast, and there is lots of new driver support.
It will have an OS version rather soon, with options of binary compatabilliy (openBeos) or intergrated with a linux kernal (Blue Eyed OS).
Just some stream of consciousness ideas here.
Consider releasing your course materials under the FDL.
(So I can snarf them!)
-Peter
That sidesteps the issues both of "need to install first?" and "giving out debian cds with no questions asked." Knoppix *can* be used to install a permanent, hd-based system, but it doesn't need to be.
Also, it comes with a mess of good apps to start with (various desktop environments, too), so you can demonstrate a wide range of possible uses.
There are (is at least one, anyhow) similarly bootable BSD system, and that brings me to one more reason to suggest Knoppix here -- you don't have to wipe out any *existing* OS installations to use it.
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
1. Do they need to know how to install the OS first, or should I let them look that up on their own while I make them power-users?
Given the amount of time you have with them, make them users first, if they enjoy it, they will learn
2. What distributions of Linux and BSD should they be first introduced to? (I'm only familiar with Debian, and I know virtually nil about *BSD.)
Umm, shall we say Debian then
3. Initially, do they need to be more adept at the GUI, or do they first need to know how to use the shell?
I would probably let them learn the GUI first, then show them the shell, I find it far easier to have a graphic representation of what I am doing, so if I move a file I can 'see' its somewhere else. Then show them the nuts and bolts of the shell. It should be easier for them to make the connection
4. Should I give away Debian CDs no-questions-asked, or should I talk with the almighty Parents so little Daniel doesn't install Linux over Dad's 'work computer.'
I think the best policy is to give them the disk for free first, then when they come back for more, start upping the charge.
This sounds like a great thing. Too many schools are only teaching Windows as if it's the only operating system in the world, and that's simply not true. These kids deserve to see full-strength Linux, particularly if this is being offered as a sign-up class where everybody in the room wanted to hear about non-MS computers. You certainly should show them how to install Linux, and especially in a dual boot situation, so that they can take the Linux CDs and (after getting the OK from their parents) dual-booting the family PC, or better yet, direct them to the local PC parts vendor to show them how cheap a PC is capable of running Linux. I think most of what the kids want to do will be GUI-based, so spend most of your time on that. But, they do need to understand the "nuts and bolts" under that GUI, so spend at least an hour or more showing them around the text console so that they can figure out how to get around when they just don't have the GUI. The one thing I'd advise you against doing, however, is sounding too much like a pro-Linux preacher. Yeah, Linux is the topic on the label in your class, so you're not going to show them the equal Windows software, but do adknowledge that Windows exists, and point out the strengths and weeknesses of both so they can make an informed decision between the two... "Linux is better because Open Source is the only way to go!" is not a convincing argument to a boss. "This can do everything we need to do, and costs much less." is. The best tech professionals are the ones who can run everything, and figure out what tool to use when...
That walks them through OS installation, complete with screenshots and the like. OS install demo's would suck up too much of your time.
But they are too important to just ignore all together.
Show them how to install and set up programs. Explain how to install MP3 players and games. Then explain the man pages and installing software and where to get (free) software. once they are using the OS for fun(i.e. gmaes and music) they will eventually want to install other apps. They mainly need to know how.
from "Running Linux" from O'Rielly. This book covers everything from histroy, installing, management, and tools in a logical, and easy to follow order. It's coverage is focused on the command prompt, which is probably best since that's where most experienced users find they can get the most work done
It was my introduction to Linux, an has served me well ever since as a reference.
I find that kids that are having fun because they know how to use an OS are more likely to want to learn how to install it. Start with showing them the GUI stuff so the can do stuff first and then weed out the ones that want to know more. If we had more desktop users of Linux that would drive more companies to port to it.
Telecommuting! What about socialization?
im 13 and i use debian unstable, the best thing that ever happened to me was when i broke my x server..no idea how i did but i learned loads about basic command shell, common things like "startx /home/games/quake3/q3a" and how to get sound working. ive been on since last april, since then i've rm -r'd /usr screwed kde2 up so bad it wouldnt launch kdm and installed everything fresh from a debian cd. get them running, then do something like take away their nv driver so the x server crashes, get em to learn to find problems any way they can, and learn to fix em w/out screwing more stuff up. basically using google and lynx is all anyone needs..and no, i dont want to suffer..
At least the war on the environment is going well
Some Ideas:
"Be like RMS"
"We put the OSS in OSS"
First make sure that they are comfortable users, then worry about the Power User status.
The age group you are speaking of tends to be low on the wisdom scale, so I think that it may be a VERY good idea that you get the parent's permission to give them the CD, or even better, introduce them to Linux via something like Gentoo linux, where you simply need to boot off the CD and the Hard Drive isn't touched at all.
Using something like Gentoo eliminates the "Do they need to know how to install" question. I would include a few page document of "Linux options" with information on where to get different flavors, as well as cautions and howtos on installing them.
I think that understanding of the GUI would be more valuable initially.
And most importantly, teach them where to find information. Don't just say "do this, then do this". Say something like "There is a HOWTO here, read it and I'll help you if you get stuck".
Teach them what they need to know in order to teach others to be comfortable using(not administering) an alternative OS
Sticks and Stones may break my bones, but copyright will always protect me.
Being an Open Source (and *nix) neophyte, I found RedHat 8.0 to be very easy to work with, although I get the impression it's not what power users prefer.
But as someone who's primary desktop is Windows 2000, RedHat 8.0 was very impressive.
To answer specifically:
1. If using RedHat 8.0, I'd say a kid wouldn't need to know how to install an OS. The RedHat installer is dead easy.
2. I'd suggest RH 8.0 is a good first introduction - it was for me. After using it, I know it's probably something I'll want to grow away from over time, but having used it, I have a larger base of Linux knowledge to work with.
3. One of the things I'm struggling with is working without the GUI. It's not that I'm uncomfortable with command line, but when you're new to a system, being able to poke around is easier than trying to guess commands and arguments. Not having a reference makes it nearly impossible.
4. Give the CDs away.
5. If it were me, I'd avoid being preachy about Linux. One of the things that had me turned me off from using Linux was the "Windows sucks" attitude shovelled at me by every Linux enthusiast I've known. I've always been one for using tools that work, and without a doubt each OS has it's strong points. To illustrate that point, I use a Mac to edit video, Windows 2000 to do development and play games, and Linux to serve up the goodies.
This isn't to say that each of those machines couldn't do what the other does, I just suggest that it's easier/better to use each for what *I* can make them do with ease. You (linux or os x hardcores) might suggest that a Mac can blow away a W2K box when it comes to games, and I'd take your experience level into account when absorbing that statement.
Also, because OS preference can sometimes be someone's religion, teaching a die hard Windows user that Linux Is The Only Way(tm) could get some flaming turd bags on your porch, so to speak.
Start with the CLI, back when I started work on appleII and dos machines, CLI was all there was.. and it was a good thing, because I learned early on, that you don't ask "what am I supposed to do", but rather "what can I do".
Viewing the CLI, and computers in general, as an open book with nothing limiting what you can do with them is a key to making people use computers properly.
so if ass dildos cost $1 each, you can buy 80k of them per year!
Stick with what you know. If you've never used anything besides Debian, don't teach the class using RedHat. The slight variations might make you seem uneasy. Remember, they can smell fear :)
Don't bog yourself down in installation. A coworker took a Linux class where they did nothing but install for the first two days! If at all possible, have the computers pre-installed before day 1. If some of the kids have prior knowledge, they could assist before the week starts.
As far as which features to learn, ask yourself, "what excites me about *nix". Steer the course towards the answer. You will have to start with the basics no matter what. If you tailor the basics toward a goal, particularly one you enjoy, you're much more likely to inspire somebody.
You can never equivocate too much.
Its so easy its not fun any more! Now a few weeks ago i was in a class trying to install win98 on some crappy boxen. It was hell! No one click instalation like suse, it was booting from a dos disk, running fdisk, format c:, running the hideous set up program, finding a cd key that worked, installing drivers to get the display above 640x480x16, etc ... With suse it was not fun, it did all the hard work for me :(
If you really want to help the kids, turn them around and take them outside. Give them a ball to play with and invite some girls over. Any 8 year old that spends time thinking about the Linux kernal is destined to be a lifelong virgin.
When i did a course in the local college, i was introduced to various "alternative"operating systems. These werent your Free OSes like nowadays, but stuff like UNIX, MacOS etc. It enlightened me a whole lot, as up until then i had only used Windows at school. Anyways, on with my answer :)
:)
Ok, glad your covering Linux, a couple of standard distributions should do it like redhat (covers RPMs), gentoo (Source, also for the portage system, nice one to draw over to the BSD side), Debian (apt, and a different config layout etc). Next up is your BSDs, id say go mainly for FreeBSD, as this is your all rounder, then OpenBSD to show off the security benifits etc. NetBSD isnt really worth looking at as the other two cover it on x86 hardware. With the BSDs, show off the ports system, stuff like that.
Another thing to do is to show the kids the various editors, stressing that each to their own. I know a lot of people that would have killed to have someone sit by then the first time they used vi or emacs.
Id concentrate mainly on the command line, as anyone, especially kids, can pick up a gui easily, but when things break its the command line you turn too. Alsoo it wqould be a nice point to make out that some distros are more command line driven and some are gui driven, making some better for servers and others for desktops. Show em around a basic system, where the config files are, how the file system works etc.
As for giving away cds, do up a selection. CDs are cheap these days, so spread em around. See if you can get permission off Theo to distribute copied Openbsd cds, as these are copyrighted (as this is educational he may let you, hes nice like that). Hand out a covering letter with each cd pack, which tells the kids to get parents permission before using them etc etc. Also send letters home to the parents detailing that you are giving away free software, that its not pirated or stolen in any way. This will clear up a lot of problems, and also may get the parents interested.
Lastly, video tape a few sessions, put it on line, show other kids
A week is a long time. Then again, there is a lot of information out there. I'm not sure how well a class can be tailored to fit an age range of 8-16 and still be interesting to everyone, but I think focusing on the spirit and drive behind free software. Focus on the volunteer and communitarian aspects, and how/why it is possible to actually create useful things instead of the whole chaotic thing not working. Then again, the 'kids' might not have forgotten how cooperating can be advantageous yet. There are so many things one can do, it should be planned out to make sure the class doesn't lose focus and/or go off track. Examples are good, though. Maybe one class can be GIMP? Eh... maybe not.
As for giving things free, how about Knoppix? www.knopper.net and find a good mirror. Many LUGs have them mirrored, too.
I'm sure there are lots of hints and tips I could give, but they all seem like common sense. I guess, just don't lose your mind while drafting the plans, and try to keep it interesting while also making them learn something.
fair.org counterpunch.com truthout.com indymedia.org salon.com
eff.org guerrilla.net debian.org gentoo.org
For extra credit, to the first one to replace the ads on Slashdot with a Goatse picture. Perhaps you could offer a prize, such as a laptop, to encourage them.
You should be giving away Knoppix CD's, not Debian CD's. That way there are no install issues, and Mom's PC at home running XP won't be in danger.
The BSDs are all really wonderful, but in a week you aren't going to be able to teach these kids enough about Unix to keep them from hating it. And since your goal is to bring them out of this with a positive impression toward free software and operating systems...
You shouldn't have to teach them anything significant about the GUI at all, if they've ever used a Windows machine before. Both KDE and GNOME are Windows clones, occasionally with a few extra features thrown in. In fact, if you want to teach them Unix, don't use those desktops at all: install FluxBox or AfterStep or something similar to give them a real taste of what Unix GUIs are like.But the command line should occupy the majority of your time, I think. It's both the most important skill and the most difficult to teach. But you should probably stay away from the more complex tools like sed and awk and keep it to cp/rm/mv/find/xargs and friends. (find/xargs is really illustrative of the powerful things you can do in Unix, and it might inspire them to learn about sed and all the rest on their own.)
Give away the CDs. You're only responsible for the kids while they're in the classroom. If they get home and fsck up dad's computer, that's dad's fault.The primary thing here is that you want to give these kids a push in the right direction. Give them an appreciation for Unix, and the tools to take their appreciation to the next level. If they have Debian CDs and a basic familiarity, maybe they want to install it on their home computers to learn more. That's exactly the sort of response you want, right? And if the kids' parents are smart, they'll encourage this sort of learning-on-your-own too. I know my parents did, even though it meant my mother went two weeks where she couldn't use her computer because I'd put Solaris on it.
As a (fellow) O/S-Networking-Hardware instructor, lend me your ear: 1. I have heard (and felt) the Mandrake makes both installations and runtime easy, other than that...there is too much similarity between the distros to really have an impact 2. Inform your students that there are many things that can be done at the CLI as well as the GUI-- some things require the CLI or the GUI...research a dozen or so and walk them through it-- be careful what you choose as you want to let them see more than a few basic functions of an operating system. If you choose wisely, it may serve as a stepping stone for their future exploration/education. (I.T> stuff is always an exploration) 3.Just make sure the ramifications of installing an o/s are discussed-- distribute on! 4.Make sure you show them all of the windoze interoperability tools (wine, etc.) so that when they DO load the o/s on their own systems, they do not lose interest as soon as some of my students do (a few minutes or so) and can still chat with their friends, play games, etc. 5. Inform them of the MINIMUM requirements for their o/s so that if they do not have a dedicated machine, they know that a pentium2 or amd k-6 will run most versions of lin** just fine (and nowadays can be put together for less than $150!!)...perhaps you should send them over to me for a hardware lesson!! The children are the future....of open source as well as anything else!! braunr@pbcc.edu
You do realize that, if a similar class was done with an emphasis on Windows, there would be outrage resonating through this thread :).
Why would you dual boot?
It doesn't make much sense to tell kids "here's a free OS, it totally rocks, but you're going to need this proprietary one to get started."
--
the strongest word is still the word "free"
Day 1. Take a simple OS and explain, what the hell is OS. What are the functions of OSs. Why do they exist. What was the computing before OSs were invented. etc. You may take any OS you want as an example, e.g. MS-DOS or Minix. It's good if OS is relatively simple. GUI is not important at this point. Day 2 and 3. Conventional OS comparison. MS Windows, Unixes (xBSD, Linux), BeOS Show them what's different in OSs. Different approaches to GUI. Shells. Multimedia. Plug-n-play. Configuration Day 4 Real-time and embedded OSs, BIOS Why do we need real-time OSs? How are they implemented. Comparisons. Embedded OSs, PDAs, Phones. Symbian, PalmOS, JavaOSs, Forth. Day 5 System programming Take Minix and show kids how to write and debug some sort of system software, e.g. keyboard driver.
Certainly the best approach would be like any other introductory computer class: Introduce the operating system as a client first, and allow them to learn the basic functions of the KDE or GNOME. Teach them how to set up TCP/IP, access applications, shutdown, restart. Introduce them to some popular open source applications like Star Office and Mozilla and show them the similarities and differences between the GUI of your choice and MacOS or Windows.
After they have learned how to be an effective user of linux (on a very basic level), only then should you step into the realm of linux system administration. Once they have a footing in the GUI, drop them into the console, teach them a few things.
Probably the most important thing to remember is that you shouldn't overwhelm them. Yes, they may be bright, but one can only handle so much. ;-)
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I think most 8-16'ers would be put off by Debian's lengthy install process. Try Mandrake or RedHat to start. Mention Debian kicks ass and that they should try installing it later.
Sigpilot : I'm in the pipe, 5 by 5.
no offence, but how do you expect to intelligently answer the questions of n children about x OS's when you're having to ask here in the first place? ...or did i miss the publication of 'learn the ins and outs of all popular operating systems for in 24hrs for dummies' ?
What is important to kids in an OS?
I think if you can answer that one question, you'll know whether or not you need to turn these kids in to "power users" that are CLI wizards or just introduce them to KDE.
I don't want to sound cynical, but it seems to me that most kids would mostly be concerned about the quality of their gaming experience more than uptime and intellectual property discussions, and in this case, Linux and *BSD may not provide a satisfactory experience. I want to be wrong about this, so feel free to correct my possible misconceptions.
What do kids value in an OS? Cynics want to know.
Red Hat 8.0 is a good choice. If one student goes over to anothers house, they will be able to adapt quickly to the different GUIs of Gnome or KDE. That way when you are teaching everything becomes the same for them. Hardware support should be easy as well.
I stick with my first statement though: show them it can do what they expect it to do...
Then, totally blow them away with a simple, yet cool programming language or two, let them have the "hacker-movie" feeling by showing them some network monitoring (wrap it in a "spy" atmosphere) etc. etc. I'd like to hear how your weekend ended!
Machine9dotNet
All others will simply be script kiddies. Next summer the can take an MCSE boot camp.
No, he is saying teach them to install linux, but dont leave out the partitioning part where you can leave windows on a system, not that you HAVE to have windows to start.
I was one of those kids who went to a computer camp, got interested in Linux, and started to read Slashdot. Here are the tips I can provide about my experience:
:) If they want to learn about KDE or the command line, teach them that. They will learn much quicker, and be much happier (angry kids are not fun)
1. Personally, I already had a great interest in computers. Granted, if the kids are going to a computer camp, they already will, but I was *really* interested. I skipped BASIC and went to C++. (Mind you, this was when I was 10.) See topic 4.
2. The teachers love what they are teaching. If you tell a Microsoft cert to teach about Linux, nothing will happen. Get some hardcore Linux gurus who love kids (hah), and stuff will truly happen.
3. Give them as much as they want, and what they want.
4. This kinda coinsides with 3, but... If they want to go ahead and be very advanced, let them. If you are covering ``ls'' and they want to learn sed/awk, teach them that and let them learn. Again, they'll learn much quicker.
Well, a lot of what I said has to do with teaching in general. But still, being a good teacher is key.
To answer some of your questions, hand out CDs to the parents, so they know what will go on. Bootable CDs (like DemoLinux) preferibly. Don't teach them how to install until they love the OS. And teach them the command line or Gnome, which ever one they want. Teach them an easy Linux, like Mandrake or Redhat (not Debian, even though it's my distro of choice), although mention *BSD and pros and cons.
Hope this helps!
Orange
Is it to teach them to be better users of a Unix flavored PC environment, or GUI users, or to teach them OS concepts? If the third, it seems you should extend the list to a broader list of alternatives, both hardware and soft, including the Mac and others. Oberon might be interesting.
>> then what Windoze won't do
like what?
Give some examples.
All we need is another few dozen pre-teen slashbots like you flaming Microsoft with nothing to back 'em up.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
i fit the age group, qualifications etc... heck i even visit slashdot more than most other 14 year olds watch porn.
... a well-documented distro (debians good, mandrake & redhat work well for starters)
Do they need to know how to install the OS first, or should I let them look that up on their own while I make them power-users?
if they know about the os, they wont have questions during installs... have it preinstalled. maybe at the end, give em time to fool around.
What distributions of Linux and BSD should they be first introduced to? (I'm only familiar with Debian, and I know virtually nil about *BSD.)
as long as they know the diff between distributions etc. i would suggest starting with
Initially, do they need to be more adept at the GUI, or do they first need to know how to use the shell?
I think they should be introduced to the gui briefly, but then learn all cmdline stuff and the basics of the os, and lots of the gui/settings, etc, will make sense.
I progressed from Dos 4->5, win3.1, 95, 98, redhat, win2k
It helps to know how a filesystem works before you complain that your 80gb hdd is really 76gigs.
Should I give away Debian CDs...
dont get sued, if people are that interested, theyll ask u where u can get it. if they ask, give it to them, then its the parents fault if something happens, they let their kid go.
Are there any other key issue I need to think about?"
get eyedrops lol, most people in this age group have not adapted as well as i have to double-digit hours on CRTs.
dont forget networking basics, considering the part it plays in everything involving *nix.
Good Luck.
That's a pretty wide range of ages to cater for. An 8 year old would probably get bored with the shell pretty quickly, and opt to play a few games of xbill (Free games, a great way to learn about the benefits of OpenSource), whereas a 16 year old would probably be more interested in nmap and gcc (You'd better not produce a legion of script kiddies).
:)
And as far as the one who are on slashdot, the best directions you could give them is "Quit trolling"
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's just that yours is stupid.
With many of the other posters on here. Stick to command-line stuff first, and once they have a handle on that, then introduce the GUI. Anyone who's running a GUI on *X should know how to use all the commands in a shell as well. I also think that you should give a quick run-through of an install, using slides (or you could be real slick and make a program that displays what the install would actually look like, but without the waiting).
;)
IMHO:
Day 1: Explain exactly what *X is. DON'T BASH WINDOWS. Negative assertion never works. Just explain the pros to running *X in and of itself. There are plenty of those.
Day 2: Show off a GUI, so they know what the end result looks like. Also show a quick run-through of the install stuff.
Day 3-X: Show them around configurations, and let them play with the shell. Remember that you should have a backup partition, in case they *really* mess up something. When kids start getting bored of this, let them play around in the GUI. If they're still bored, then let them try an install for themselves.
And you should definitely talk to the parents before giving them CDs.
Man, now *I* wanna do this
If a and b in c, and a can create b, and a can create a, and b can create b, and b cannot create a, then a created c.
I remember how much I could cram into my head before I had things like bills, work, and life filling up the gaps. I'd say first get them used to the GUI, since presumably most of these aspiring nerds have a windows machine at home. It's likely they'll quickly get a grasp of how it works, but get them used to how similar the desktop is to what they already know; then highlight the subtle differences like wharfing, the menu that pops up when you click the middle button, etc. Then right after, get them to open up a terminal window, and then get them started on the good geek stuff. :)
:) It would probably be a good thing to have alias rm to rm -i or -noclobber depending on what you end up using.
:) Then once they get to see all this cool software that they're using does what they want, mention that it was free and slip them some Open Source propaganda. :)
There's a plethora of 'cheat sheets' that have all the common shell commands in them, so it would probably be a good thing to hand out photocopies of those while they're fiddling around, just make sure you let them know the devastating power of -R.
Debian would probably just as good a starting distro as anything else, but let's not start that war here. Make sure if you give those CD's out to put a nice big disclaimer on the label or case warning them not to wipe out Mom and Dad's taxes. Then again there's whatever distribution it is that installs on a windows partition, less of a chance of destroying the home PC.
Of course make sure they get a good dose of how to do everything they already do with a *NIX box. Make sure you have OpenOffice or StarOffice on there, and whatever other browser on there, if you're really brave, put your favorite IM clone on there, but don't expect them to pay any attention to you afterwards.
Remember to keep it interesting for them, show them where the games are if need be, after all when we were their age, who didn't check to make sure Xbill functioned properly after a new install? Speaking of installs, I'm sure plenty of these youngsters have already nuked the family computer at least once, and Linux installs have come a long long way in the past few years, they'll figure it out.
Give 'em a good tase of the apps that are available out there.
One thing that I've seen be a big "seller" for alternate OSes is the open source apps that one can grab and use. And then customize!
Not all software needs to come in a box.
I strongly believe you should teach CLI first. I was amazed to discover how much a kid can think when learning CLIs. And GUIs are inconsistent and not always there; if they know how to move a file using "mv", they will know how to do it in any Unix box.
Prescriptive grammar:linguistics
- Don't politicize your teaching. The last thing the world needs are more brain-blocked hysterical zealots.
- Teach them what is good and what is bad about both sides of the fence (Linux/Microsoft/Everyone Else). Don't polarize things and say "MyOS is better than YourOS... because"
- Don't give them crutches but don't overwhelm them. Show them how to work the damn thing off of a blinking cursor. If you don't have time to go into X and GUI stuff in general, don't worry. If everyone started with a command line the world would be a better place (and support reps would have more hair). At the same time, don't try to go into how bootstrapping works - just stimulate their appetite. If they're good for it, they'll take the next step by themselves.
- Teach them what is good about open source and why it exists and what it's all about. Don't let them grow up to be confused thinking that "free" means "I should get everything for free" instead of "freedom"
- Don't mention RMS.
- ???
- Profit!!!
(ok, the last two were a joke. Just the last two)I let a seven year old play on my linux box a few months ago, and he picked it up straight away, all he had to do to play his favourite games was to click the colorful k, maybe the k should stand for kids.
- Don't have to navigate through hundreds of menu's.
- Can pipe simple commands together and get something powerful.
- Very low bandwidth.
That's just a few. And throw in the 'find' command if you need to both impress and confuse themSex - Find It
Do they need to know how to install the OS first, or should I let them look that up on their own while I make them power-users?
I would think they should already know how to install the OS. I think an intro to linux class and a power user class would have to be two separate things.
What distributions of Linux and BSD should they be first introduced to? (I'm only familiar with Debian, and I know virtually nil about *BSD.)
I think you answered your own question there. If you only are familiar with Debian, and you are teaching the class, you'd better stick with Debian.
Initially, do they need to be more adept at the GUI, or do they first need to know how to use the shell?
SHELL!!!
Should I give away Debian CDs no-questions-asked, or should I talk with the almighty Parents so little Daniel doesn't install Linux over Dad's 'work computer.'
Hopefully, after your first class they will know not to do that. Hand out the disks would be my vote.
-- -- Warning. Do not stare directly at the sun.
Why not show them debian on the schools computers. And give away konppix cd's.
Knoppix is a liveCD that boot and runs without harming/setting free any hard-drive
It's a nice win-win situation since they can play around as much as they want. And if they break anything. Just reboot and start over.
And FreeBSD, I think is a nice *BSD start. It has bootable cd's thats downloadable etc. And you can get a GUI fairly easy etc. etc.
Conclusion:
School machines debian and freeBSD mixed
Give them Knoppix cd's and later in the week you can show them dualbooting etc. And for thoose that want, give them debian cd's.
oh.. I wanna teach there.. instead of this boring university! =)
- To understand recursion, we must first understand recursion -
Is this course supposed to be about "Alternative Operating Systems" or "Free Software Evangelism"?
I'm not suggesting you ignore Free Software at all, but give a little time at least to the non-free alternatives. OS/2, or whatever it's called now, would be a good example of something technically well-designed, but which failed in the marketpalce. Pre-OS X MacOS has a very long and interesting history. There are buckets of sites out there that'll give you enough material for a few hours on each one.
It might also be worth spending a little time on the differences between the various Windows incarnations, at least from 3.1 to 95 to NT.
You've got a great concept here - don't go turning it into a sermon. The merits of the Free stuff will be obvious, so there's no need to avoid mentioning the competition.
Wasting your time since 1997.
wow finally we young slashdoters are getting some recognition. I have been coming to this site since i was thirteen or so, but to be more on topic i think a computer class for children teaching linux is a wonderful idea. I personally started on red hat as my first linux distro but i would recommend mandrake since it is prolly the easist. First i think skip the install it is easy enough to learn that on your own, also save the gui lessons and go straight to the shell scripts i think that those are the most important to learn first. I think for those kids that are older hand them a distro of linux and teach them how to setup a computer for dual boot, and the younger teach them dual boot and hand the cd to the parents, for sure (you'd be surprised how mad parents get when you forget to tell them you setup the computer to automatically boot into linux instead of windows at the lilo prompt...oooops). Be well advised that the unless the younger kids are huge geeks like i was then you should make sure that they get something that interests them more, though i think the 16 year olds that are knowledgeable would like the linux lessons.
Being 16, a Linux user for [almost] 3 years, (and someone who earns $20/hr setting up Linux servers for local businesses), and having attended a computer camp, I can whole heartedly recommend that your students individually install Linux on a computer.
:P).
It can be tough, though, as some will bring computers that they can't touch. When I went to computer camp, there were a bunch of rental machines. Had they decided to teach us to install Linux (They didnt, I was the only Linux user... It was extrememly amusing to watch the VB trojans created by our loving counselers fail completely on my box, however... ), I think it would have been smart to image a rental box, store the image someplace, and let the campers go hog wild installing *ix.
You can study, and you can watch someone do it on thier screen, but its nothing like doing it yourself.
When I first started with Linux, I had by cobbled together box that I built for $40, which included 3 hard drives and an S3 Vision864 graphics card. Because I had a free CD of Turbolinux that I got when installing a router at my church, I installed Turbolinux 6.0. XFree86 3.3.6, kernel 2.2.14, all kinds of fun stuff. I tried to *resize* my Windows partition, which produced negative consequences for about 30 mp3s, otherwise failing to have any effect. And that graphics card. If you though S3 cards were bad in windows, you should try to get one working in XFree3.3.6. It took me hours of xf86config tweaking before I had two readable resolutions: 640x480 and 1024x768. Didn't touch XF86Config ever again.
All of that to say, it was a major pain in the butt. No kudzu holding my hand, I had to learn everything from scratch. It was a big deal, but now I configure XFree86 with ease, and can partition a harddrive with the best of them (well, for what its worth. It's not really all that hard
With Linux, its a learn by doing proposition. I urge you to offer your students this opportunity.
-geogeek
~Geogeek now runs an Athlon 1.4GHz box with a nice, big, 80GB hard drive, and a Radeon 8500. Funded in part by Linux skills~
I got an account on my high school's BSD box when I was 15. It was for a class project, with the understanding that I'd be able to keep the account after that for other purposes. Several other students got on board the same way at the same time, and a little community developed.
The closest we came to web browsing was via gopher and later lynx, but it was enough to go out and get things done. We learned how to use the system to accomplish our goals.
Your approach should be the same. Load the system with nifty tools, figure out what they should try to do with them, then explain the tools and let them play. The clever students will optimize their methods and discover more about the system in the process.
It works. Now I run dozens of Linux/BSD boxes for an entire school district. Other people from the same era also went on to do useful things in technology jobs.
I use Debian unstable currently, but I don't show it off. KDE is a beat slower than the blazing speeds I see in the Windows GUI. (Of course, KDE is Free, but some people don't get that.) This is because Debian has not yet recompiled its distribution with GCC 3.2.
GCC 3.2 offers a huge speed increase for C++ code. KDE, built entirely in C++, suffers from GCC 2.x's late symbol resolution slowness. To impress the power of Free software on the kids, make sure you use a distribution that has compiled KDE with a modern compiler. You want to make a good first impression, and that means killer speed and killer looks. For the same reasons, if you're going to be doing anything multimedia (even just playing music from XMMS), use recent ALSA drivers that support multiplexing (i.e., SB Live!), and be sure to patch the kernel with one of the real-time scheduling patches. Again, skipping music is not a turn-on.
From there on out, teach them the power of multi-desktops, keyboard shortcuts, and shell scripting. Start them on the platform with a positive view.
|/usr/games/fortune
Give every kid a copy of the KNOPPIX CD. (http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html) They can take it home and run Open Source stuff on the home PC with little risk of messing up Mom's recipes or Dad's tax forms. There is no installation hassle and it has a very good selection of OS stuff. (The people with Mac's at home just need to be told about Fink). --jim
I progressed from Dos 4->5, win3.1, 95, 98, redhat, win2k
Yea right!!. You're 14 years old and you started with DOS 4. So, like, you mean like, you like started at, like 4 years old like?
Do they need to know how to install the OS first, or should I let them look that up on their own while I make them power-users?
Nah.. in the future (hopefully) these OS's will come pre-installed on some machines, or at least will become extremely easy to install. This is not important.
What distributions of Linux and BSD should they be first introduced to? (I'm only familiar with Debian, and I know virtually nil about *BSD.)
Red Hat or FreeBSD. Don't bother focusing on the minority players. But do point out that Linux is completely flexible, and there's other distros, and that anyone can make one. Maybe show 5-6 different Linux distros and just discuss the different file layouts, package managers, and philosophical goals. Point out that proprietary software doesn't give you this flexibility.
You could also discuss Mac OS X and how it uses both open-source and proprietary parts. Folks who don't like to "tinker" as much might find it more useful, and the Unix skills they learn in your class can apply to this more mainstream OS as well.
Initially, do they need to be more adept at the GUI, or do they first need to know how to use the shell?
Both!
Should I give away Debian CDs no-questions-asked, or should I talk with the almighty Parents so little Daniel doesn't install Linux over Dad's 'work computer.'
Probably a good idea to check with the folks. This isn't a video game, it's an OS that can screw up the machine. If they need to figure it out, they'll do it on their own.
Are there any other key issue I need to think about?"
Be sure to talk about Software Freedom. If they don't have familiarity with open source, they probably heard over and over how "wrong" it is to share software. Tell them this is an alternative licensing model. Encourage them to "tinker" with the software, they can always re-install if they screw up.
If young programmers today learn that it's "okay" to modify and improve their software, they'll become better problem-solvers and programmers, and will learn to demand flexibility from software vendors.
I learned how to use Linux on a coworker's computer at an internship I had. I didn't learn how to install Linux until I was comfortable using it at work, and I found the installation to be pretty simple.
You'll run into a bit of a chicken-and-egg problem here if you think about it too hard. In order to learn how to install the OS they will have to deal with a bunch of things all at once: partitioning, filesystems, mountpoints, and thousands of names of programs that sound cool. Installation is pretty easy if you have a handle on these concepts, but if you don't you'll find it very exasperating--little documentation and a lot at stake. But if you make then a power user first, then they get hands-on experience with the OS, they have a reason to want to install it, and they'll be more capable at installing the OS itself on their own when it comes time to do that.
2. What distributions of Linux and BSD should they be first introduced to? (I'm only familiar with Debian, and I know virtually nil about *BSD.)
If you focus on Unix, and what the Unix philosophy is, then it won't matter much. Being able to cast around sed & awk, make command lines with for loops, and configure networking manually is a lot better than knowing how to use a graphical system configuration/installation utility like linuxconf or dselect. Plus, focusing on the tools is more likely to carry over to other operating systems. Teach them regular expressions. Teach them loops and conditionals. Don't teach them how to run RPM just because they might have to someday; it's rote, they won't remember it when they have to use it, and they'll be falling asleep as you explain it.
3. Initially, do they need to be more adept at the GUI, or do they first need to know how to use the shell?
No question: the shell. Even if you use the GUI all day (I run KDE!), lots of low-level things are written in bash/ksh/csh. If you're going to be able to sit down at any Unix computer and use it, you're going to have to be competant with at least sh/bash. The first thing I do when I sit down is fire up a console. They should be doing that automatically by the end of your class: the console is where the work is done.
There's a lot of variety with GUIs, and it can be great fun to mess around with window managers and so forth. Give them the ability to change these things (teach them how to edit their
4. Should I give away Debian CDs no-questions-asked, or should I talk with the almighty Parents so little Daniel doesn't install Linux over Dad's 'work computer.
Make the CDs available, but do talk to the parents. Make sure the parents realize that if the kid is going to do anything with "partitioning" they should go out and buy a copy of Partition Magic so they don't permanently screw everything up. That software was the best $50 I spent in high school, when I was a big OS installing weirdo. My parents never lost any data.
Clearly, some of the kids are going to want to install it at home, and it's not necessary that their parents understand the whole idea behind partitioning (though it would be nice). It's also not necessary to scare the parents into preventing the kid from doing what they want to do out of fear. I geniunely believe PM is the right answer to this problem: it's got undo until the last possible moment, and it's very user-friendly, which helps a lot when you're just getting started. Once that's taken care of there is very little that can be screwed up (most installers either ignore other drives or assume that if it's type "vfat" it shouldn't be formatted).
5. Are there any other key issue I need to think about?
Yes, definitely try and think of a curriculum. Kids who are interested can absorb tons of material, but you've got to keep it interesting. The best way to do that is to not focus on the rote doing of things, but to talk about the possibilities of things. Don't just say, here's regular expressions, instead say with regular expressions you can strip out everything in a file you don't want, get a list of all the email addresses on this webpage, etc. Keep them interested in the possibilities that you're opening up for them by teaching them the software.
Be aware of your philosophy and how it affects your decisions. If you believe in focus-follows-mouse, set up all the machines that way. Let them change it but make them try it out first: expose them to as many possibilities as possible. Have vi and emacs on the machines, and let them pick. You've probably got a whole set of quasi-religious beliefs about Linux. This is your chance to instill those beliefs in other people, but make sure that you point out your biases. Most of the kids who take your class are going to take Debian home to install, which is fine as long as you don't focus on the "Debianness of it all."
Show them the Linux that newbies don't usually get to see, because of the religious wars that go on. Regular expressions are another great example, because vi and emacs both support them. You may not be able to extend vi in lisp (and you might with vim), so don't focus on that. Keep it open.
Here's my advice on the actual software to talk about:
I suggest bash because of it's ubiquity. Everybody uses it and knows it, and it's very expressive in its weird little way. Debian or Redhat because they are also everywhere, but don't focus on rpm or apt. I suggest Blackbox or WindowMaker because they don't have a bazillion settings that you can spend all day on. If they fire up GNOME or KDE they'll be so absorbed in the coolness of it all that they'll spend the whole day configuring it and not listening to you. Galeon is simpler than Mozilla but uses the same rendering engine, and makes webpages look pretty decent. If you have them firing up Netscape 4.7 or Mozilla, they'll either be disappointed or distracted (my guess). Past these options I don't think the software matters much if they have choice.
Good luck with your project! It sounds like a step in the right direction to me.
--
Daniel
Why is Free Software a boost in the "right direction"? Shouldn't you teach them about both and allow them to make up their own minds?
slashdot!=valid HTML
The thing I think that's funny about this is the delivery. I get what he's saying, but it comes off as sounding like:
"These are the kinds of kids that will have $90k jobs. (BUT WAIT, IT GETS BETTER!) Some of them are even on Slashdot."
... cause how dare he think a MS OS is "good". P.S. JUST KIDDING! DON'T FLAME ME TOO!
"Times have not become more violent. They have just become more televised."
-Marilyn Manson
You sicko!
Explain what the installation will do, step by step (disk partitioning and the like). I'd recommend showing them around the installation process, but coming up with something for them to do for the 10/20/30 minutes it takes to install.
2. What distributions of Linux and BSD should they be first introduced to? (I'm only familiar with Debian, and I know virtually nil about *BSD.)
I know next to nothing about *BSD as well, but I'd recommend showing them at least two different Linux distros (RH and SuSE, perhaps?).
3. Initially, do they need to be more adept at the GUI, or do they first need to know how to use the shell?
I know a lot of people will disagree here, but I would actually show them the shell first. Bash can do a lot of things here, and show them how to use the basic commands (rm, cd, cat, ls, w, id, top, grep, etc.) and then show them some of the cool stuff like Perl, tr, and awk. Then tell them a bit about X and desktop environments; then let them play with the pretty widgets like xmms.
4. Should I give away Debian CDs no-questions-asked, or should I talk with the almighty Parents so little Daniel doesn't install Linux over Dad's 'work computer.'
Knoppix. And talk to the parents as well, yeah.
5. Are there any other key issue I need to think about?
Tell them what not to do, and (most importantly) say WHY not to do it. If you just say "never never do 'rm -rf /'" then you can probably guess what's going to happen. On the other hand, if you say "if you do 'rm -rf /', you'll delete all of your important files (if not the entire thing) and then you'll be up the creek." Though they should be able to figure this out by themselves once you tell them about how the filesystem works and rm's different command flags.
Note to M1-ers: a curt but otherwise insightful message is not "Flamebait" or "Troll".
I'm 15 and I've played with Linux/Unix since I was 8 and tought myself how to administer Linux/Unix networks (I still have a few Sun SPARCstations that survived when I moved) but still this is a good idea, even computer teachers say i'm crazy becuase I use alternative OSes
This means there's a lot of potential to teach them about Linux, *BSD, and open-source.
I read this statement and saw a similar version right next to it: "There's a lot of potential to teach them about economics, history and socialism."
Two of those things are disciplines, one's a specific political theory. Two of your topics are operating systems, one's an often controversial intellectual property concept. What are you trying to teach them -- about Linux or a BSD, or to proselytize about Open Source?
Sure, how Linux or BSDs are developed ("Who makes Linux Mr. Smith?") is likely to be addressed, but a simple explanation that it has many developers collaborating and is distributed freely would be an adequate explanation. Especially considering you're dealing with kids -- even adults with a good grasp of what intellectual property is don't always grasp the concept of open source well.
I wish you well, but don't lose focus as to what you're doing. If you want to preach open source, fine, but don't call it an operating system class, call it an appeal for open source.
...like indoctrination. I thought we /.ers hated indoctrination.
Or is it just indoctrination that goes against our particular POVs??
"Times have not become more violent. They have just become more televised."
-Marilyn Manson
I've been teaching my ten year old son UNIX and programming via ksh shell scripting. Seems to be working - he enjoys it, he's learning his way around the command line, and he's learning some basics of programming.
GUI is something to introduce much earlier - he's been using it prior to his first birthday. If these kids are already working with computers they've already seen the Mac and/or Windoze GUI. Show them the power of the shell, and if they already have a clue, they'll realize what it can do for them.
Sarcastic or not, here. Lets you create compressed filesystems (including CD-ROMs) that can only be read under Linux, particularly those live CDs that are stuffed beyond capacity.
Intelligent Life on Earth
Well, I'm only 15 myself and I'll tell you what I'd appreciate learning from such a seminar.
/usr/bin wah? tar.gz who? These are confusing things! Teach them.
1. Installation: Familiarize them with the concept of 'live-on-cd' os's (KNOPPIX), as well as the concept of dual-booting. Most linux installs are fairly easy to grasp, especially considering your group is already adept to computers. My fear was always that I'd wack out my HD. So teach them about partioning.
2. Distro: I and others I know don't really have strong opinions towards the major distros. However I feel Debian is a good distro to teach. It's not too easy, and there is the benefit that you are familiar with it.
3.GUI vs. Shell: Show them around the GUI at first. Let them explore. However I definently think that knowing the basics of a shell is important. I atleast grew up using DOS; others may only know Mac/Win. Teach them how powerful the shell can be and how it can actually be quicker than a GUI app. Your students will already know how to use and adapt to a GUI. The shell is a differen't story.
4. CD Handouts: Give them KNOPPIX and your worries will be gone.
5. The two things that I am still most uncomfortable with are software installation and the file tree. I'm still not adept to unpacking and compiling software. And I still have little idea of what all the folders in my system tree are.
/There are 10 types of people in this world; those who steal sigs and those don't
One last piece of advise: prepare to throw your lesson plan out the window and wing it. That has happened to me on more than one occasion. Be flexible, and if it looks like the class is heading somewhere good, go there. I'm glad to see there are others out there doing it, and who care enough to ask for advise.
"Knoppix."
microsoftword.mp3 - it doesn't care that they're not words...
Assuming they've never installed an "Alternative OS," do you think that walking them through an installation will take only a couple of minutes? "Alternative Operating Systems" presume an awful lot of knowledge about hardware, file locations and where/how to get information. Of course, everything you need to know is in the /usr/bin/wtf?/damnwhereisit/l directory, easily viewed by typing in vi /usr/bin/wtf?/damnewherisit/l linuxiseasy.man -v -s command.** Oh, wait a minute, they might not know vi yet if they're in the 8th grade. Better be sure to teach them emacs, vi or pico first, then teach them how to configure a mouse in x windows using the /var/obvious/luser ifyoudontknowthisyourealoser.conf file.
/. .
**This is, of course, not really a valid command, nor is it a valid location, but all enlightened flames are surely welcome in the self-lauding posts here at
man rtfm
I agree. I was thrown into Linux by a co-worker who follows the 'sink or swim' philosophy. Sometimes that works out, as it has thusfar in my case, but it's very easy to get discouraged and quite tempting to go back to what you know.
The main thought I have with this hole project is to have the kids leave interested in the topic.
SPARK THEIR INTEREST. The most learning they will do is own their own time. Not listening to some teach.
First off, I would leave out the word alternative because by the time they grow up Linux will no longer be the alternative.
The first day be sure and capture their interest. Have a short introduction to the course and then show a movie, Revolution OS would be a good one. Revolution OS does a good job explaining open source, linux etc, without being overly complicated. It will do your job for you except the kids will get to hear it from famous computer geeks.
With the left over 4 days I would be sure to cover the following topics.
Intro to Linux (file hierarchy ie. where to find stuff, mount, ls, rm, rm -rf / )
Intro to desktop (& apps too)
Intro to web serving
Intro to programming. (maybe some python) a simple TCL/TK gui app. Fast and simple and santisifing
>You shouldn't assume that they know how to install operating systems
No, but I'm willing to bet that given a week, they can learn to install Linux. Especially those with GUI-based installers.
>the one with the GUI will produce better results
They might be more familiar with the GUI, but they can probably learn to use the shell without much difficulty.
---
Open Source Shirts
Actually, using OS X would be an excellent idea. It'd be especially easy to demonstrate the relationship between the shell & the GUI, as well as the showing them two GUIs (OS 9 and OS X) that are built on the same shell.
if my mom saw me come home with a shirt with the bsd daemon on it she would have flipped out that i had sold my soul to the devil regardless of how cute his sneakers were
like what?
Um... I don't know... how about NOT CRASH.
We have 8-16 year olds on slashdot? Ah... That explains a lot!
[alk]
Is that like "alternative lifestyles"?
--sdem
I'm a junior high student using linux on an iMac, here are my recomendations:
>1. Do they need to know how to install the OS >first, or should I let them look that up on >their own while I make them power-users?
Teach them how to install the OS. That was what I had problems with learning Linux, though distros have gotten a little easier to install since then.
>2. What distributions of Linux and BSD should >they be first introduced to? (I'm only familiar >with Debian, and I know virtually nil about *BSD.)
I would say Red Hat and FreeBSD, and possibly Darwin if they use a Mac. Red Hat is easiest to get used to from Windows (especially v.8). I use the version of Red Hat for PPC, Yellow Dog Linux. FreeBSD is supposed to be easiest to use of the BSDs, though the only BSD I've used is Darwin in OS X.
>3. Initially, do they need to be more adept at >the GUI, or do they first need to know how to use >the shell?
Teach them the basics of the GUI and major apps (eg. OpenOffice, Mozilla, Evolution) the first two days, then mainly concentrate on command line.
>4. Should I give away Debian CDs >no-questions-asked, or should I talk with the >almighty Parents so little Daniel doesn't install >Linux over Dad's 'work computer.'
I think there may be a distro of Linux that runs in Windows off a disc image, though I do not remember the name... If it works well enough give them a CD of it.
>5. Are there any other key issue I need to think >about?"
Show them gaim or another AIM client, and mention that they should switch from AOL. Almost every one at school I know uses AOL, except for a few people that have broadband
That's a hard choice.
I would think that at that age (and any age) you might get faster results by teaching them GUI. Since you have the opportunity to shape their usage, please!! make sure they know the power of the command line and its advantages over GUI.
Maybe show them some scripts and how powerful they can be over the pretty GUI. Even if they start using the GUI, as long as they know the command line is there and it's extremely productive, I think their curiousity will take over and accept cmdline sooner or later.
[alk]
then i would want to see a "free" box next to it doing all of the same things. xmms, openoffice, mozilla, gimp, evolution.
then go on to show them how it is different thatn windows in terms of cost, freedom, opensource, configurability. then show them all of teh aditional software. show tehm sourceforge and fresh meat.
the command line is scary for non-geeks, i bet very few OSX users even know they have it, let alone use it, (and im not refering to the /. crowd OSX users) show them it only to enhance, not confuse, their experience.
in short, show them linux as an alternative, and how it can seamlessly replace their current tools, and extend their computiong functionality.
I want 2D games back.
1. Do not bother with installing. Show them the cool stuff first.
2. I would show the the latest RedHat, because it's the most widely used and I find it to be the most well tested.
3. GUI. If you show them the text shells first they will say Linux is harder. If you let them get used to the GUI and then show them what they can do with the shells they will say Linux is powerful.
4. Give away as many CD's as you can. And give away RedHat, not Debian.
5. Be sure to have all common software installed BEFORE they start using them. For example, have the flash and java plugins for Mozilla already in place. Don't make them ask you if Linux can do all the stuff they like about their windows machines. Let it just happen for them.
Do they need to know how to install the OS first... ;) and what they do, and perhaps even a little on how they work. Different audiences will drastically change how you teach though. Whereas with the 8 year olds you will probably give them Knoppix and a how-to-use-the-gui and gnutella client kind of lesson, you'll want to delve the dpeths with the 16 year olds. Maybe even get through the first chapter of "Understanding the Linux Kernel", or maybe that'd strech things a bit. Hope this helps!
Absolutely. What good does it do to teach them an OS that they're highly unlikely to encounter pre-installed soon?
To follow up the first question:
Should I give away Debian CDs no-questions-asked...
You must (IMH-but-accurate-O) make sure they have a home or school computer to have linux on, be it an old Pentium or something else. No matter how bright the kids are I seriously doubt they'll be able to remeber much after a semester if they don't continuously use it. This would probably be a good opprtunity to go through the install process.
What distributions of Linux and BSD should they be first introduced to?
I don't see the point of teach BSD, as alot of stuff from linux will carry over and BSD just isn't going to get them anywhere. I think per distros use whatever you're comfortable with. I think Debian is the way to go 'cause it is hard and will make them think, pplus it has an awesome packaging system. I do think though that if you use one, it must be RH. It's the linux distro most windoze people will probably have heard of, and many companies think it the "standard" distro.
Initially, do they need to be more adept at the GUI, or do they first need to know how to use the shell?
Shell. It's really the only thing they're going to always have. If they run a server they can't count on a gui being there. The shell is where they will do most "in depth" stuff. Of course, the younger they are the more gui they need to see.
That said (whew!) I think it's good to start out with a very brief history of Unix. Not too much depth, it won't mean a thing to those who don't know hat a shell even is. Midway I'd also go into some OS theory. Kernel, shell, gcc, X, etc, on how they all work together (at least they're suppose to
Karma: Bizzare (mostly affected by varying internal caffeine levels.)
Make sure they see winamp and gaim!!!
Get out while you still can.
This means there's a lot of potential to teach them about Linux, *BSD
First off, I'm being sincere here. I am not trolling.
Now really, do we want to be introducing kids to what will, in all liklihood, be yesterday's technology in ten or twenty years? A lot of people in computer science are pretty shocked that UNIX-alikes ended up being so hot in the 21st century. Twelve years ago, UNIX was rapidly on its way out and "good riddance" was the general consensus. Even if you disagree with that, then look as it another way: You want kids to get excited about something bright and fresh that lets them move ahead. UNIX is not what you want to focus on here.
Perhaps the most unfortunate part of Linux has been that it allowed 1970s UNIX-heads to get a second chance to live their glory days. It's as if all of a sudden the Commodore 64 became the basis for millions of cell phones, and the C64 hackers of yore could all start coding 6502 assembly again. That's good for them, but it's not an advance. And, sadly, so many people jumping on the Linux bandwagon seem to want to argue themselves to death over the status quo being the ultimate pinnacle of computer. Heck, you can't even get rid of X Windows, because there's always a group who has to bring up it's network transparency (something that less than 1% of all Linux users make regular use of). We're running in circles, scared of anything else that might come along. There needs to be some real excitement for these kids, not just the knowledge that they can be 'leet by hacking configuration files. Teach 'em Smalltalk. Teach 'em REBOL. Teach 'em UnrealScript. Teach 'em anything that lets them get results quickly.
Show BeOS on a multi-processor machine. Pull some threads onto different processors!
____
null
Sounds like script kiddie bootcamp to me. Don't forget to teach them of l33t speak and pr0n.
-Sean
Sick bastard!
whoever owns that domain is a verry twisted individal.
Make sure that they understand that Linux can be a great gamming PC. Be sure that you demo Linux on a decent PC with an accelerated graphic card, the correct drivers for it and then demo Quake 3.
That should get their attention.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
Moderators, that's one of those posts that give a non-trivial answer to the question asked in the story. Please be generous and give your mod points to the parent comment. Thank you.
try to get em young! just like big tobacco!
if you can get them "hooked on lunix" now, just think what mindless slashdot catchphrase spouting zombies they'll be in ten years!
w00t!
That way, they can let their parent buy any box they want, and yet install any *NIX like OS they like on there. :)
OK, I'll bite...
/proc/cpuinfo. /proc/meminfo. Just about anything in /proc that tells you all sorts of stuff about your PC.
/boot/vmlinuz > /dev/dsp. Oh, wait, don't do that :) I guess for kids, logging in remotely and playing random sound files to scare people in the room.
* How about symlinks? And no, shortcuts don't count (though that's how cygwin fakes it). NT can barely do hard links (you need a third party tool to create them).
* Mounting partitions in any directory (I know win2k can do this, but you still have the c:, d:, etc. drives). And mounting many different filesystems.
*
* cat
* A well set up security model (yes, NT _can_ be set up correctly, but it seems like often the whole drive is wrold writable)
* Easy remote administration (through ssh of course)
* Native X forwarding.
* This client terminal servers. And kind of along with that, though different is clustering technology.
* Cron. Though NT kind of has this, it's not as easy to use (and the jobs don't run if you're not logged in!)
* Compiling programs.
* Shell scripts. Hell, having a decent shell. Perl, python, sed, awk, grep, less, and all the other productivity tools Linux users take for granted (sure, you can get them for win32, but most people don't).
* More than one workspace for your GUI. More than one viewport within each workspace.
* Text based logins in case you screw something up and the GUI won't work.
* Almost all the software is written with the user's interests in mind and not some corporation's bottom line (though sometimes those two interests are both accomplished). So you get things like popup blocking, for example.
I could go on and on. Most of the things I mentioned Windows can do, but it's not as polished, or isn't as easy to use. Things like Cygwin do clean up Windows a lot, and are great if you have to use Windows (can gcc cross compile to win32?), but having so many nice things native to the OS makes everything smoother.
Don't get me wrong, there are nice things about windows (the GUI is much snappier than X, even on much slower machines; it's gererally easier to get started on; it's familiar for most people; high end games run on it), but there are lots of deficiencies. And I for one prefer working on Linux/Unix to working on Windows, for a lot of the reasons above.
"Save the whales, feed the hungry, free the mallocs" -- author unknown
Start by telling these students about what Freedom Software does for them -- and what they can do with it.
it would be cool to show them some set DISPLAY=1xx.xx.x.x basics and get them wowed about X (something they cant do w/ windows at present), or maybe a DHCP server.. but try and explain that the code is available and show them a little gcc a.out action in vanilla c.
Then tell them that gnome or dhcpd is GNU Freedom Software. Then send them home w/ a Redhat (mandrake?) CD.
Kids love free stuff - even if they dont exactly connect libre w/ free just yet, they will.
Do they need to know how to install the OS first, or should I let them look that up on their own while I make them power-users?
Yes! (Not the first class, but before they leave your care anyway). If they can't install it, they can't use it at home.
Teach Clean install. Repartition. Dual boot.
Essentially show: It's not that complicated. I went for years not wanting to mess with the OS because of the fear factor. (Computers are very important for most people. IE. They have valuable data. They can't be down--and risking that in most families is not allowed.)
So close and yet so far from the world's perfect ID number
Do NOT offer it to 8 year olds. I'm 17 and my siblings, all younger and being around that age, either A) don't have an interest or B) want to know why free solutions don't play the games they like. Simply put, offer it to Middle School and High School kids (13-17?) simply because those are the kids that can actually use it. Plus, those are the ages that take computer programming classes and such. They'll also be able to appreciate free software and a free OS.
Dual boot is good and all - but do you really trust this age group to pay attention enough to NOT make that mistake?
My thought here would be to run under VMware or something so that any dumb mistakes wouldn't kill the machine, but VMware costs a bundle, especially for a purpose like this.
A witty [sig] proves nothing. --Voltaire
Most kids are probably not going to be interested in running an OS for its own sake, for geek factor, or to be Free. Kids know why they want to run Windows... their games or current favorite software runs on it, for one.
Show them something that kids will think is really cool. Then show them the OS that makes it possible (or better) - and then do it. You might need more than one computer if the "how" part takes too long (so you can just take the cake out of the oven,ready, like in the cooking shows).
This might be tough to do for some OS's - I mean, you can do many of the same "cool" things on either Linux of FreeBSD.
Perhaps a cool demo would be to start out with a Debian or FreeBSD box, and say out loud... I'd sure like to have a web server that my friends could download files from (or some other thing along those lines)... and then go through the process installing it from the respective ports system... just an idea.
Maybe you could give them all cd's of Knoppix (http://www.knoppix.de). That way if they want they can try it at home without any risk of screwing up their parent's computer. Definitely teach them to install linux or maybe FreeBSD, since knoppix doesnt require any install.
- Do they need to know how to install the OS first, or should I let them look that up on their own while I make them power-users?
Learning to install an OS is a worthless skill to teach forward looking young people. OS's are getting easier and easier to install -- i.e., the crud you need to know to do it today will be obsolete soon anyway. You'll just end up teaching them frustration and how to wait a really long time- What distributions of Linux and BSD should they be first introduced to? (I'm only familiar with Debian, and I know virtually nil about *BSD.)
If you are the one designing the course, you should stick to what you are familliar with.- Initially, do they need to be more adept at the GUI, or do they first need to know how to use the shell?
GUIs were designed for idiots and old people (i.e., the Macintosh's intended audience.) I am not kidding or being facetious. Young people can learn a command line just as easily and will prefer it for its power. The point of a GUI is that you're not supposed to *teach* it to someone -- if a GUI requires training to use, then the GUI has been ill designed. Command lines need training but are well worth the effort to learn.- Should I give away Debian CDs no-questions-asked, or should I talk with the almighty Parents so little Daniel doesn't install Linux over Dad's 'work computer.'
Well, only if Dad's work computer is Windows.- Are there any other key issue I need to think about?"
Yes, you have to come up with content for the course itself. Just letting kids tinker around with free OS's and free software isn't going to be that exciting. You have to create sub-projects for each day -- like 1) root privelege and setting up accounts 2) setting up a network between two different OS's 3) download and recompile an open source project (preferrably something multimedia related like XMM or something)I wish you the best of luck.
LOL
First I think your title is misleading, talking about 'alternative operating systems' when it seems you blatantly mean 'free Unix clones'.
If you are giving a talk on alternative operating systems, I think you'd do well to mention other things than just Unix clones (especially those trying to emulate windows). Try to show more variety - MacOS, RISCOS etc. Remember the gui/WIMP operating system as you know it is not here to stay.
I'm not convinced buy all this WIMP (Desktop) environment stuff. I started using a command line of sorts (BBC model B), before switching to RISCOS which was (debatably still is) a very good alternative operating system - there are many advantages with being stored on a ROM.
RISCOS is also in some ways the purest graphical desktop I've ever used. It is almost entirely mouse driven and is the only OS I've found with true drag'n'drop saving. (you drag what you want to save into the folder you want to put it in and let go instead of typing(messing around) in save dialog menus.)
Nowadays I tend to use X-windows with a completely blank desktop without KDE/Gnome or any of that stuff and just use keyboard shortcuts, and the occasional terminal. I've completely forsaken graphical file managers.
Windows XP initially keeps the screen as uncluttered as possible and tries to obscure the filemanager by hiding the 'mycomputer' icon. So we are already moving away from our mid 90s obsession with graphical file managers. The next version of windows (the evil copy protection infested one) is rumored to be moving further away from a desktop to create a more 'integrated' feel and is said to use some database backend instead of a normal file system.
Anyway my point is, operating systems (or at least their user interfaces) are changing, and in 10 years time, will look nothing like what they currently do. So try to equip these Kids to be flexible, and please try to inspire them to think about what they want operating systems/user interfaces to be like.
We must surely be heading towards computers like Holly from Red Dwarf or the computer on the Heart of Gold. We have the technology we just need the will to develop it so please don't kill anyone's imagination by showing them, 'alternative operating systems' that are merely less flashy immitations of Windows.
Computer operating systems and user-interfaces are in cars, wearable computers, cash points, phones, robots, not just dull PC clones. We are already moving away from being tied to using keyboards and mice the whole time.
sink or swim works much better. Didn't your parents toss you out of a boat in the middle of the ocean when you were 3? I know I'm not the only one
1. Teach them to grep for FP's
2. Teach them to build Beowulf clusters, and how to talk about clusters properly (e.g. "Imagine a Beowulf of these...")
3. Show them the ropes
4. Teach them about goatse.cx
5. Teach them how to crap flood.
6. ??
7. Profit!!!
8. Teach them how to shower
9. Teach them how to jones for chicks
10. Teach them how to pimp chicks
11. Teach them about hot grits
12. Teach them not to be geeks. Geeks suck.
Teaching people how to install before they understand the system seems to me like teaching people to run before they walk. There are only two reasons that I can think of to not teach them installation at the end of the course:
OS Software is like love: The best way to make it grow is to give it away.
1. It's a good start
2. Debian for the real free software culture, Mandrake for shiny stuff, openbsd for security.
3. Shell. GUI's change and if these kids are smart, it's cake anyway. "Adept" at a GUI is meaningless. CLI, shell scripting, Perl, Python. Also, cool network tricks (proxies, firewalls, servers, all the cool functionality that costs extra with Windows).
4. Knoppix!
5. You say these kids are smart. If you introduce them to the power and flexibility of the Unix design philosophy and the usefulness of source, you'll have done a great job.
Being a member of this age group, I'd say that a class about OSes (i.e., the underlying technology) themselves would be more interesting. Something like minix could be used so that there's a working example to play with.
... or should I talk with the almighty Parents so little Daniel doesn't install Linux over Dad's 'work computer.' Good idea. We wouldn't want to mess with an already working Linux installation.
Don't try to teach them everything out there. Show them what the computer can do. First do things you can't do in windows: upgrade all the software on your computer with a single command, all the while doing normal stuff (checking email, browsing the web...), show them all the sleek software you can, write a script to do something a typical windows user could not do quickly, and make the desktop into a fancy router/server instantly. Hopefully that will make them realize the *nix is more than just an alternative.
Then, of course, show them how to do all the normal stuff they can already do in windows, to make them realize that they're not missing anything.
After you've gotten them all thinking how great everything is, then show them some good install tips, how to compile from source, and how to install the OS in general. If they were really interested, they'll pick up the rest of the details over time. But if they never see a good system, they'll never even bother remembering the details that you show them.
Social scientists are inspired by theories; scientists are humbled by facts.
Overall, emphasise how they can get answers themselves. Show them how they can get fish themselves.
1. Nope. Give them Knoppix. Installation isn't hard if you don't mind nuking what's already there . Introduce them to Linux and open source but do not give them reasons not to try it themselves later.
If they aren't knowledgeable yet, they need hands-on experience. One week of telling them the wonders of open source won't make that so.
2. Going with #1...no specific distribution. Offer to give them CDs of other distributions if they ask.
3. Shell or GUI? Neither. Show them the Unix-way; everything is a file and this translates to both the GUI and the shell. On the shell end, show them /dev and /proc and then go back to the GUI and show that some (not all) of the same information is there as well.
4. Knoppix fixes these issues in the short term.
Long term, mention disk partitioning. Unfortunately, that means them buying Partition Magic, getting Mandrake or another distro that bundles PM, or learning a hell of a lot about disk partitioning and backup. When in doubt, suggest easy options but mention how to learn more.
5. Too broad. I'll let others handle that.
A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
First of all, I'd like to say how much I love your idea for creating a cirriculum for budding geeks.
;)
:)
Speaking from experience, it is extremely difficult, time-consuming, and frustrating to learn about *nix alone, and a mentor-like system would help kids greatly.
Here are some of the things I wished I knew before I bought books at Barnes and Noble:
What technologies Unix has, what they do, what they are used for, and why they should be used. Talk about languages like Perl, PHP, and whatever else to give the kids a roadmap. I had no roadmap, and I ended up buying an ASP book because I wanted to learn web programming. -_- I was young, naive, and unable to return the book in time to get a refund. It did burn brightly, though.
Go through the compile process and explain dependencies and things like that. Before I got my first Unix machine, I had used classic mac os and I knew nothing of the 10000000000000000 extra libraries and such I had to install to get the gimp working. On that thought, talk about package managment systems- the where, why, and how.
Talk about geek culture. Where did open source start? Larry Wall's Camel Book has a rather good chapter about perl culture, and much of it can be applied to more than one place. Mention slashdot, and tell them to read often
Talk terminals. Please! Get students familiar with the command line, insert a few *modifications* into a configure script to aquaint people with the compiler, linker *gasp*, and the shell environments. Teach kids what LDFLAGS, CPPFLAGS, etc. they can tweak to get code running on their machine. Also, cvs is really useful, so please teach kids how to use and navigate that! The first initial hump in cvs learning can be hard to get over, and I would definately have liked it if I could have had some direction.
Literature. Teach kids how to buy computer books, how to read computer books, and how to amass a library of computer books. Personally, I cannot stand reading text from a computer screen as it hurts my eyes, so don't limit offerings to online documentation.
After all this fundimental knowledge is gained, talk about how to compile a linux (or other) kernel, installing an operating system (i.e. not redhat; installations that use a simple text-based interface, as if some geek threw a linux distro together together that afternoon
I attended java programming classes at my local community college, which were a big waste of time. The lesson is to teach kids how to have some self-direction, so that when they grow up they can be autonomous learners. I had to learn my lessons the hard ways, so I'm glad someone is making an effort to reach out and help students.
I would stay with fun things, and GIMP is probably one of those. I might be biased though, as I think GIMP is a really wonderful program. You are welcome to use my Photo Editing with GIMP presentation. It is a good introduction, but it doesn't get into layers or anything like that. It does get you stared with GIMP though, and most people have a few digital photos.
Give them Knoppix version 2.2 rather than 3.1, as 2.2 is much less fussy about booting on most hardware.
SuSE Live Eval 8.0 vs 8.1 ditto. IANAG (I Am Not A Guru) but I try bootable Linux distros on every computer I get a chance to work on and observe this often.
2 weeks to demo an OS? /use/ the tools that count.
FFS Focus on what they can achieve not the OS per se. What do they want to use a computer *for* -- it's a tool after all. Then show them the way. At the end of the day - shock, horror - one OS is *actually* much like another... It's how you
The way I would handle the class is this.
1. Installation, I think it is important that learn how to install the operating system. In this Microsoft World, where almost every computer you buy has a Microsoft OS on it, teaching them how to install the OS is important, maybe go over how to set up partitions, and how they can save there window partitions if they want to.
2. For a particular distrbution, I would recommend the one you are most comfortable with. Students lose faith in instructors if something wrong happens and the instructor doesn't know how to fix it. But let them know that there are other distrubutions out there like RedHat and where they can go to get them.
3. I would teach CLI first. I started out learning Windows 95 in my computer class, and when the only thing I could get when booting up my computer was a C:\ Prompt, I didn't know what to do. I eventually taught myself DOS, but I didn't make the same mistake with Linux, Learn the CLI First then the GUI. Or better yet, teach how to do functions with both. The command in the CLI to pull up Disk Space, and the GUI Tool to see it. That way they can compare things, and at least know there is a CLI command for just about everything in Linux\Unix.
4. I would give away copies of Knoppix, that way they don't destroy anything. Then tell them where they can obtain copies of Debian, and Red Hat, and Mandrake.
5. Try to make the class fun. Show the class all the neat things you can do with Linux. I like the suggestions about setting it up a game machine. Other then that, good luck holding there attention.
Once upon a time, I once I had a great Sig.....then I lost it.
I know you're talking alternate OSes, but I think it would be wise to look at some cross platform stuff.
When you show them OSS Apps that run on multiple OSes (Perl, Apache, Open Office, etc), tell them that they'll run on windows or whatever (if they will), and point out the differences there are between (them if that is important to the stuff you show them).
I'm not saying show them all the OSS that runs on Windows so they feel they don't need to change OS, but if you let them use some of the great stuff you show them on *nix on windows, they may be able to install it easier (on their computers at home or at camp if they have windows on them already any no way of putting *nix on them), and it'll show them that there are many great OSS apps that don't depend on being on one OS.
This could also help ease a transition from one OS to another - one of the big problems I see with changing OS for some people is that eveything changes at once - a few things that stay the same can be a great comfort (both for software developers as well as word processor users).
The other thing I would include is accessing a *nix box from a different OS and doing things. Using a good terminal emulator (like Putty) in windows to do CLI stuff like change config files, move files around, stop and start services etc - something that's not that easy (or even possible) to do in some OSes. Show them VNC, both from windows to *nix, and from *nix to windows and see the differences of them. Talk about CLI being ok over a modem, VNC not really that great etc (so yes there is a reason for CLI, it's not just about having to remember a lot of commands or looking smart in view of others). You could probably also throw in an application running on one linux box but with its display etc being remote (compare with what VNC does??).
In my experience whilst some of us end up in *nix only environments, a heap of us end up mixed environments where we need to be able to do stuff on a *nix box from a windows box (or another OS) so this is useful stuff.
Don't spend your entire week on it, but I think a look at it is good and shows some of the cross platform apps, working across OSes etc. It could also help show some of the major conceptual differences between windows and *nixs (client/server, multiuser etc) which are terms bandied around and misused at times but not oftened explained properly.
Anyway, sounds like a great idea, good luck and hope my ramblings make some sense and are of some use.
I'm currently making 60k a year at 20 years old ..... and get this, I have a GED. This will be modded as a Troll, but this is more a point to prove to people they can do anything if they put their mind to it.
But it kinda off topic, I just saw 80k a year and had to post.
Other points:-
If you want them to become good Slashdotters, just sit them down and have them chant over and over: "Bill Gates is the Antichrist. All Microsoft products suck. All open source software is perfect."
They'll fit right in!
What a wonderful opportunity!
1. I wouldn't start from Install, I'd leave that for day 4 or 5, just start an install on a spare machine and show them how really boring it is.
2. Kids of that age aren't patient. They're not willing to wait hours (or even measurable minutes) without feedback (unlike my undergraduate days, when a four hour turn-around on our Fortran compiles were considered good).
3. Expose them to a lot, not just various *nix, but entirely different OSes, like BE. I don't think in a week I'd get hung up on the differences between Linux and BSD, I'd show them just one (preferably a user-friendly one).
4. I would show a GUI first, since they're likely to feel at home there first, but I'd also expose them to the command line (in whatever OS).
5. View the week as an opportunity to expose the students to a wide variety of things, don't spend too much time on any one topic. Give them a list of topics for further exploration, as their interests take them.
6. Have a good sense of humor.
In regards to your curriculum, I would suggest informing them about different types of software, not just operating systems. The idea is not just that you want them to learn how to use linux and let that be the end. All you'll end up doing is teaching them how to use unix, which won't turn out to be immediately very useful unless they have a computer with a spare partition at home. The following ideas might be useful to you...
;) Pico/nano or something like that for the shell, or a plain text editor like nedit in the GUI. This shouldn't be too long of an exercise, as they probably know how to use an editor already. The main idea is to expose them to a plain text editor in a shell environment.
;)
1) Operating systems. Spend the first day letting them boot and play with linux. As others have suggested, use a CD-based distro like Knoppix or Gentoo. Show them the GUI AND the shell. Don't worry about shell programming; just go over the basic commands like ls, cat, grep, etc. Nothing too fancy. You've only got a week, so don't swamp them. If they've got the mind for it, all you'll have to do is provide the introduction at this point. Don't forget to provide a nice handout for the various commands. Include pipes and redirection.
2) Go over using an editor. For god's sake, don't start the poor kids on vi. You want them to get something useful done, not spend all day trying to figure out why they can't exit.
3) Explain the various categories of software like web servers, databases, programming languages, etc., and let them know there are completely free versions out there that are just as useful as versions for which people pay hundreds of thousands (sometimes millions!) of dollars.
4) Let them tinker with making their own website. If you gather a large collection of free images and backgrounds (and GIMP so they can make their own), then give them a handout on basic HTML, they should pick it up pretty quickly. Kids who finish earlier can take a handout on PHP and learn to make pages dynamic w/ database access. This will allow them to see several different functional areas (the OS, programming, web server, database, and browser) all come together in a cohesive way.
5) Possibly cover some basic programming. Perl or ruby would be a good start. Maybe Python, but I'm not a big fan of its forced indentation. I think it might be ok to talk about the difference between interpreted languages and compiled languages, but teaching C or C++ is probably a little much.
You could probably spend a week on that stuff and instill in them an idea of the types of open source software available, how open source benefits people (especially point out that the class they are in wouldn't be possible without open source because of the cost!), and how they can use open source themselves at home. With any luck, you can start another generation of computer-philes who will understand why the Copyleft is a good thing, not a virus.
bytesmythe
Hypocrisy is the resin that holds the plywood of society together.
-- Scott Meyer
I wouldn't start out teaching them how to install; as an earlier poster mentioned, it simply takes too long, and could quickly lose kids' attention. Just as important, though, is that so many distributions these days are easy--SuSE's install is downright mindless. Instead, just point them in the direction of some easy-to-install distributions.
What I would teach them is how to find the information necessary to modify existing installations--not simply "Use YaST to add a new package", but rather the process of finding answers to non-obvious questions. As a new Linux user, it took me some time to figure out how to find answers to my questions on the web (How to ask the right questions, I guess), how to use the answers I found, and perhaps most importantly, how to modify answers for one distribution to work on my distribution. There's a lot of information out there, but it's not always easy to use. Some questions that I remember fighting with included how to get Samba to work, running mySQL, creating virtual domains in Apache, How to get Tomcat and Apache to work together, How to get X to work on a docked laptop (actually I'm still fighting w/ that one).
My experience in teaching software development courses at both the local community college and at CMU has been that teaching students how to find information for themselves is one of the most important skills I can offer. Students that have learned how to do this have been more successful and more enthusiastic in my classes. They've also been more likely to pursue the subject matter both outside of class and after the semester has ended. I also suspect they are more successful in their careers, as they are more capable of keeping their skills up to date.
...and not forcing them to be overwhleming nerds like we are. There's plenty of time in life for that, but not enough time to play and have fun.
This past summer I was a teacher/counselor for Cybercamps, a camp for geeks like us. Kids were 8-16 (just like yours) and for the most part fluent with computers and sponges when it came to learning new things. During evenings we had special topics and believe it or not our most popular topic was Linux. We eventually worked Linux in to the day curriculum.
/*' or something.
... Good luck. It can be a lot of fun.
1. They should know how to install the OS first. You don't actually have to go through an install, but at least explain the decisions they will have to make and steps they will have to go through to get a working installation.
2. I've got not clue about BSD, but choose your distro carefully. When they go home they will start with the distro you showed them. I chose Redhat just because it was easy and thats what I started with.
3. I found it was best to teach them how to use a Shell. The shell is where the power of Linux really shines. Id stay away from a GUI until they are comfortable with a command line.
4. You should make sure their parents know. I know if I installed Linux on my parents computer they'd kill me. But to those whose parents agree, definitely give them a CD. Its the easiest thing for them
5. In my experience the kids wanted to know how to do 2 things with Linux (at least the ones that showed the least true interest). They were how to hack with Linux, and how to break it. I lost count of how many times I made the kids re-install after they weaseled root out of us and did something like 'rm -rf
Another thing, is in the lab we used we couldn't install Linux on all the machines, so we had everyone ssh into one of the designated Linux computers so they could all have a chance to practice. It was also good because it let the get hands on while teaching them all new commands. Just make sure you keep their attention.
Well
- Joe Monti
Stick to the concepts. There's nothing worse then spending a week learning one particular operating system, then having to use a different one later on.
Teach the concepts instead. For example, teach them about harddrive partitions, and not about a specific partitioning program. I don't care how much you know the Mandrake or Redhat partitioning GUIs in the installer, it won't do you any good when you're faced with fdisk. But if you know the concepts, you at least know the shape and pattern of what you need to do.
And teach them how to use the available documentation. Man pages. Info pages. How to use lynx or another textmode browser for html files. They will never know everything there is no know about UNIX, but they *can* know how to find out anything they might not know.
Finally, give each one in the class a different system. Use as many as you can scrounge up. FreeBSD, Mandrake, Debian, Slackware, OpenBSD, etc. Then when you teach about partitioning the harddrive (for example), they'll realize that there are a dozen different right ways to do it.
As the old saw says, "If you learn Redhat you learn Redhat. If you learn Slackware you learn Linux." There is a kernel of truth in there. Someone who is exposed to just Redhat Linux isn't going to transition to a job working with Solaris as easily as someone who's been exposed to a couple of different distributions plus a BSD. You do NOT know what the tech world is going to be like in ten years, so don't make your students live in the past when they get there.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
Well im a 16 year old and if that sorta camp was available to me, i would probably attend. Anways...
Do they need to know how to install the OS first, or should I let them look that up on their own while I make them power-users?
Well, it depends on your time contraints. If your talking about the kind of audience to whom linux appeals, to show them how to install would be rather condecending, what as with the numerous tutorials easily avialable out there. Just point them in the right direction for installation.
What distributions of Linux and BSD should they be first introduced to? (I'm only familiar with Debian, and I know virtually nil about *BSD.)
can't help ya there.
Initially, do they need to be more adept at the GUI, or do they first need to know how to use the shell?
I would say starting with the GUI wouldnt be a bad idea, since it will be familiar(ish) but shell work should also be done. Keep in mind that most of the kids who will go home and install linux will be using the GUI as much as the shell (or so i would imagine)
Should I give away Debian CDs no-questions-asked, or should I talk with the almighty Parents so little Daniel doesn't install Linux over Dad's 'work computer.'
Hey, thats not your problem, just tell the kids that it will make the computer unusable to idiot parents who dont care to learn linux; they can handle it from there.
Are there any other key issue I need to think about?
Well i have a few questions: Is it mostly hands on? Whats the structure?
The one thing i would say to keep in mind is that while teenage geeks will share many of your interests, they probably use their computers in slightly different ways then you. Im not sure i can explain right now, but email me if you have any questions.
MacOS isn't an "alternative OS." And you expect him to have the school buy a bunch of hardware to run RISCOS?
First... tell them they can make a lot more than 80k if they are really that smart.
Second, instead of teaching them how to install an operating system, maybe go over some basics, but encourage them to be curious and explore, and not to be afraid to break things. Of course you can't encourage them to go break their parents computers, but encourage them to find a situation where it's ok to break things. Because when smart kids that are interested in computers break things, they figure out how they work, and how to put them back together again, and ultimately they'll gain a much better understanding of how everything works if they spend some time doing this. Once they've done it enough they'll have a general feel for 1) how it all works and works together and 2) how to find out how it works if you don't already know (man pages, etc).
From there, the possibilities of where they go are endless, and more importantly, up to them.
It's true, on the nightly news. Humans and Mice (trackball, Microsoft, etc.) share 99% of the same genes. They sure know how to get your attention during these days during exciting news stories about UN inspectors investigating janitorial closets in Iraqi Presidential Palaces! What's that Green stuff in the bottle?, Oh, that's "Mr. Clean".
Teach kids the principles involved in developing quality software.
Software. Not free software. Not commercial software. Not any kind of software but good software.
Let every kid there leave with a free shell account at the Super Dimensional Fortress http://www.freeshell.org/ (don't set up the accounts but tell them about telnet, maybe something a lot of them won't know too much about)
What kid interested in computers would be able to resist playing around with something with such a cool techie name..
Knoppix is great and non-invasive in the household, tell them about distrowatch and linuxdocs.org and the OSDN and other sites that provide 'portal' like entries into the linux world.. Show them how many open-source projects are usable in the Win32 enviroment.
Oh, and while you flood them with information and give them the basic tools to learn more don't forget to show them GIMP and alternate browsers and stuff they probably have heard about because it is the current fad cool.
You don't go to a computer camp because you want to use a computer like a toaster
A good history of why unix was created and evolved as it did might be cool. A well thought of design can be seen and appreciated by any seeking mind if explained well enough and told in a good enough story.
Let them know how knowing unix will help them in the job market. Where can they use this knowledge of a unix system
And count on the ones in the class who know something about the system, they can probably help you split the class and do some demos if you have a few systems set up to play around with.
--The Grey Ogre
Since then, I've gone through debian (which was great) and gentoo (which was better), and am getting in to freeBSD (which might not be appropriate).
The incentive for (intuitive, smart) kids to use Free Software (speech/beer etc.) is that they should be made to feel that _they_ have configured their OS. This doesn't mean they need to use LFS, its just that monkey-installers like redhat and mandrake just aren't any fun.
My recommendation, use Debian (with nicely themed KDE or something) to demonstrate, make sure it looks easy, aesthetic, but also powerful. Also, I think you're going to have to target those kids who are technically reasonably savvy (they can set their VCR etc), the real nerds as you say will already be using slashdot, and if you make those experienced kids to demonstrate their knowledge (say by helping the other kids) your demo will go smoother.
A bit like most Linux users/zealots, you mean?
I know, it's a deadly sin, and I wish the kids luck, but every time I read about these wunderkinds I realize that I had a shitty education.
Introduction to Computers (on an Apple II, in 96 this was still the case)
PASCAL I
PASCAL II
Until I went to college.
Of course, I think I'm right at "that" age, you know, where the people older than me had it harder and have more experience, but those younger than I have had it all their lives, it seems to them, at least. My sister's 16 and can't remember when we didn't have a computer. I'm 23 and remember my dad buying our first PC.
Friggin kids. It didn't help that I moved when all the aptitude tests were taken, so maybe I could have had a chance at those advanced classes. Hell, my HS Guidence Dork told me not to take advanced English Sr. year even when the teacher said I was light-years ahead at the Jr. level.
"Go to a community college," I swear, they must get kickbacks or something.
Dan
I've met sysadmins who have memorized every OS option available but couldn't program their way out of a paper sack. Most people don't know how to rationalize that the OS is a program that runs other programs because they don't have any comprehension of what a program is. This would be a great way to introduce them to the fundamental principle of the Open Source Movement.
"I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
No - just because you say it doesnt make it true. Investing time to learn a better system is not a bad thing and you need to think of the whole picture. You could have said something other than 'free' and you may have been correct but you didnt and you arent.
You posted in the wrong thread btw - this point could have been better expressed in the 'Win2k is Cheaper than Linux' thread. =P
Pixels keep you awake!
For instance the one I am currently working on: www.lpi.org outlines a good broad introduction of basic Linux skills. I prefer the original non-vendor specific certification test to the new beta one which asks a few pointless questions on Redhat RPM's. You could use this as a solid outline and at level one it also covers a lot of basic Unix skills.
What's the point in teaching them an archaic language?
At the moment, good people are often lucky to get crapy pay at horrible companies. The bad times won't last forever just like the good times didn't. Next time around, businesses are going to be seriously screwed.
Don't think so? Do you know a single technical person who isn't pissed off and fed up with the job they're lucky enough to have right now? If they haven't been laid off in the past cycle of Moore's law, they're either fed up or at least wanting out from sheer misery of watching everything tank from that one spot. I know a lot of survivors who would love to quit (and would have by now) if there were any place to quit to. Technical employment has been forced to go from "fat & happy" to "lean & mean". However, as Dilbert says, "lean & mean turns into skinny & pissed pretty fast".
Just watch. It will be easy to spot. You'll know that the technical job market is getting better as the resignation rumors start to outpace the layoff rumors. "Revenge of the Nerds ][", anyone?
*** Sigs are a stupid waste of bandwidth.
Knoppix rocks but in my experience 2.2 runs on far more boxes than 3.1. Ditto SuSE Live Eval 8.1 vs 8.1.
I applaud all the Knoppixlots but they ought to mention that different versions of live distros are required depending on your hardware.
and they will find out anything about the systems they need to know.
:)
Something most kids do want is absolute control (the older ones) and taking things apart (the youngsters). Tell them both is possible with free systems... control over pc's on every level (well... at least on the software levels) and the chance to take the software completly apart.
Show them how they can do a very small programm (like number-guessing) with tools that are already on cd (something i'm very missing on new MS-Systems... don't know if i'd ever been interested that much in computers if my first computer wouldn't had basic running on it per default). This can probably be teached very fast (one day?). Let em modify the programm slightly (for example they can add fun messages for right/wrong, change the number range to guess, get the pc to beep between, etc...).
1. Install... hm, not really. Takes up too much time and the smoothness of installation is to much depending on the individual pc's
2. I guess you can teach the best the system you know most about.
3. Show them the Shell. Show them a script-language like tcl or perl. Tell them this are hacker tools
4. Allow them to get the cd's when they have asked the parents (don't put yourself at unecessary risk).
YHBT HTH HAND KTHXBYE
If I were you, I would start with classes on the principles underlying computers: how does the hardware work and how does it execute software? I assume they have got quite some computer experience, so it is a good idea to make them try to figure out how you go from the basic principles to complex software (e.g. games, which always appeals).
You might show them how input is treated in a simple system and how a program can manipulate a video screen. Then you might want to make them try to program something like that themselves, but to do so you would have to create a really easy environment, where everything just looks basic, so no "#include ".
After that, you could go on to explain the need for operating systems and their functionality. Once they finished that, they should have less problem understanding the basics of Linux or Windows.
Don't waste your time talking about stupid installation procedures or some GUI thingy that isn't going to last long.
And, Linux is not the only OS around. Make them choose for themselves. Show them the power of Linux if you want (shell, IO redirection, scripting, pipes, sockets, that kind of thing), but don't start a Linux Bible School...
I held a little "computer awareness" two-day seminar for a few youth from my regional Bahá'í communities. The youth have all been using computers for quite a while, so my aim was to teach them to use their abilities to the benefit of their communities. Also I wanted to make them aware of Linux as a moral alternative to pirating software from over-priced vendors.
...) RAM, disks, motherboards, graphics, looked at the external ports (network, USB, monitor, ...) This took about ½ day, and by then they could put a computer together.
:-)
I started from the bottom: hardware! I have an old 486 without a case, just the basic components. I got them to identify each component, think about static electricity, put the pieces together, and see the beast run. Then we looked at variations of hardware: CPUs (486, PIII, K7,
We then installed a number of operating systems: Win 98, Debian, Red Hat. I don't have an XP CD, or I'd have done that too -- RH vs Win98 just isn't fair. While installing, I spoke about the Free Software community, and it's relationship to the morals of religion, one point I like is that Free Software is much like a religion such as the Bahá'í Faith (plug) or Chritianity: the members are trying to do the right thing, for the love of it. Some say it's for the heck of it, but thats simply avoiding the reality of love.
The next day we used Win98 and Red Hat to build a website. The class fragmented into those who are users, and those who are admins: for admins, I talked about TCP/IP and DNS, for users about HTML, graphics and usability.
All in all, I think it was a good seminar, and the youth seemed happy about it. Next time (in the spring) it'll be better!
Who?
Some other poster also mentioned this, but I want to make a few different points. First think about the sort of thing you want to teach, what is the point of your class - then think about the specifics.
Your list of items seem to hint you want to teach them "Linux rulez!!". That ruffles my feathers a little - classes aren't meant for propaganda. On the other hand, enthusiasm is the best learning aid there is, so probably this isn't so bad...
Things that you'd want kids to know about:
As a start. You could teach them how to make a dual boot system for themselves at the end, I suppose, but it's not the main point of the class. As a distro, who cares, they're all basically the same, go with Debian since that's what you know.
I believe posters are recognized by their sig. So I made one.
looks like you are teaching them how *not* to make 90K using free crappy software. u better have a followup course on how to flip burgers because thats what they will be doing!
It's more like this:
1. Install
2. Doesnt matter
3. CLI please
4. Definitely ask the rents.
5. Dunno
6. ???
7. Profit!
One week, one week, one week.
Not one year.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
1. Don't politicize your teaching. The last thing the world needs are more brain-blocked hysterical zealots.
And then in a show of defiance of common logic:
4. Teach them what is good about open source and why it exists and what it's all about. Don't let them grow up to be confused thinking that "free" means "I should get everything for free" instead of "freedom"
And then, to descontextualize everything:
Don't mention RMS.
The fear of some people to take a principled stand is quite amusing, the fear to treat young people like idiots is even worst. Passivity is to take a political position as well, the worst one if you ask me.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Unix culture likes to say RTFM. Teach them how and where to find the manual. It has taken me a considerable length of time to become comfortable with finding that information for myself.
Point out other sources of mentoring after the class. You can mention /. and K5, but also go into LUG's.
Open their horizon and let them explore on their own.
You can perfectly teach technical subjects without forgetting the reason these tools came to exist in the first place.
If you want that wonderkids don't have problems down the line in 5 or 10 years what a better moment to educate them. The Napster guy comes to mind: made something very useful but was completely unaware of the consequences out of the technical sphere. Any good technician, engineer of computer user should not dissociate himself from the wider issues that surround computing.
Teaching is not indoctrination, you can say "Linux costs nothing and you are free to modify it as you wish, Windows costs 150 (or whatever, I do not know neither care) and you are explicitly forbidden to make any modifications" and you are being absolutely spot on. If that sounds like indoctrination, tough luck, it sounds like information to me.
Indoctrination reads more like "You should use Linux because I say so", education is "You should use Linux for this, and this and that reason".
These children will have many chances to be exposed to people with other opinions, so I don't see any reason why we should be shy to teach political stuff that is perfectly pertinent to a technological subject.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
In my mind, you shouldn't teach them first how to install the system. If they become really interested in, it is not so difficult to install a modern distribution, and you have the motivation to learn.
About the GUI, I think you MUST show teach them with GUI, simply because Win/MacOS are known for their GUI. When people teach only command line, the first thing students do at the end of the class is to remove Linux in order to install an OS with a nice GUI, because they believe there is no GUI for Linux.
But you should also explain them why non-gui tools are great, what kind of job they can do, what kind of job they are good for, and teach them the basics of shell, pipes, and a few tools (cat, find, grep, sort, tr, cut). So, next time they will have to do a simple but repetitive task, they will remember that command line tools are great, and they will be ready to spend more time learning them (that is exactly how it worked for me: I knew awk was great, what it was designed for, and so I learnt it the day I first needed to do something easy with it and boring with GUI tools)
Mathias
Over here in the UK we've been trying to sell Linux to "cash strapped" schools. The overwhelming impression from talking to ICT teachers is how little they seem to know about computers.
During the summer we had two work experience lads here who were, from the start, well up for it and were hammering out webpages on Bluefish, getting their heads around OpenOffice.org in no time and were just generally fascinated by the inner machinations of networks once you got behind the GUI (KDE which they had no problems with).
The teachers on the other hand seem to understand MS Office, Frontpage and a handful of other packages but bugger all else.
When we questioned the lads about their ICT lessons Word, Excel, Publisher and Frontpage seemed to be as far as they went and once bored shitless they entertained themselves by finding ways around the half arsed attempts that had been made at stopping them running "protected" programs and circumventing web filters.
Basically kids don't have a comfort zone and are keen to experiment and investigate while their adult charges are safe and secure in the knowledge that they know what they know and they don't need to know anything more.
I was thinking of becoming an ICT teacher but a) I can't be arsed with the paperwork and b) I enjoy learning more.
Hmmmmmm..... Deep fried and look like Squirrel.
Let me guess - a zealot, right?
Sooooo....
9 5603736158096942448656344237229 53097649223054391601191008149981899982676074051128 4845846468104 222383860866332220252629748631260199958355147 00445145153856524512198896688242885131345142227242 588556194154804006820840889 68760939037126038734529760350803987739899986482962 807554069 01498136231454654001646886921881251183973 84816774681730386953418928827990736202476228827711 08925486632965859241033 96495875593582385836890634380577452432194362089435 53751 6665370288042780876676144372584740270 84876619056751614412413210867546136619644940740089 8877384056761091794 77920658309755051689888358000432088349904348763109 8 623623266667200619733658076161343 77697421435214594941750234744257056741543495467320 555594526812955 14151079991912900246575863159132004499196756938 35012559922725139029199290816030799443559573586711 59471702944228502091852172043 88783887002433295056420701909737445015245025595739 19791647221 6046626773825530446877687849536667737585543 64007514403649065035663997689020989634388843032710 6353342406550110990355506 14930546567458692516747479225863650022156093597898 5255232 716970576941061851639055369889537517726 36128431121334986778153815734781439169263654682316 169353647083938706944 69991436142790619669533313006076809356958131404108 629 05891917640320608217347265291061656 51261056780306819502786689668831606379129413028721 81005048236479225 893577884732051023721218383928244456379622873525 3 4454351631899589631987643039873 03883674370743782889629171840700045444003488514759 9209009192722 586960730452114618083701309436735909547162789 18660402957674439674906117662725930387550344370100 031000454904460774159053947 45672637889847310769315336718181497614802378518237 16192319
39 characters. Each of which is drawn from a possible 256.
256*256*256.... == 256^39.
So your odds are 1/(256^39), or 1 to
1021568016110443029988932108209848027940639726640
99266798687225139
30659012450628749350546117526107980
893
039884836055211442523
396807341339892940048196017725019498679
4661938
6953461265966004652959546
7554805789160078564805708466502518235335903
51964328600
86520732672229309510586437178
64391343136552723933815799720313728892748654026
220141194251996
949772452099527397641119401738121
9
4563533317245018803
9692631458704116832791995596048853013
84451
97426329292289113858834
89424268798168401353444069527577236227036
575024501
691940871973005169306310992
499066121459916376521970299557736565630537987
7403879133479
2103616038165813569586672601930
1574281533314678806748800279592931796568088796843
59534971955955524
78293432183759883299924183849161382
571
014553154384158507285
349383551873291644839.
So, uh, turn off the Beowulf cluster. I could calculate how many years it would take to find the phrase, but it would be a number similar in size to the one above.
...
I speak from the experience of a failed attempt last year to start a Linux Club (actually, a Free and Open Source Software Club) at my eldest son's high school. The school gave us a bunch of vintage PCs (100MHz Pentium; 32/48MB RAM; 600MB drives, and we cannibalized the drives from half to double the storage on the other half). Installing Linux took more time than the club had, so I eventually had to take the the PCs home to install Linux and Open Office. Gnome/KDE proved to be very slow, and the students eventually lost interest. The most successful part was showing them how to configure networking.
1. Do they need to know how to install the OS first, or should I let them look that up on their own while I make them power-users?
Start with PCs on which everything you plan to use is installed. Everything. Too many things can go wrong during installation. At the end of the week, you can have them attempt an install.
2. What distributions of Linux and BSD should they be first introduced to? (I'm only familiar with Debian, and I know virtually nil about *BSD.)
Use whatever you are most familiar with so that you can help them best. Use something that can run a full set of applications (Open Office, Mozilla, etc. -- and don't forget a good set of games) so that the kids can go home and show family and friends how useful and cost effective open source free software can be. I used Red Hat 7.1. If you are familiar with Debian, perhaps Libranet is a possibility? If I were to do it over, I may also consider Gentoo.
3. Initially, do they need to be more adept at the GUI, or do they first need to know how to use the shell?
I'd go with the GUI initially. Many of them will come with a Windows background and it's important to make the point that Linux can be just as visual and attractive, if not more so. You only get to make one first impression.
4. Should I give away Debian CDs no-questions-asked, or should I talk with the almighty Parents so little Daniel doesn't install Linux over Dad's 'work computer.'
Give away CDs. No need to talk to the parents. Little Daniel is old enough to know what's permitted.
5. Are there any other key issue I need to think about?"
If you haven't worked with this age group before, consider carefully how you will keep their attention. I found that taking apart the computers to cannibalize the disk drives was something that they enjoyed, even though I saw it as drudgery. Be prepared with tangents in case you start seeing eyes glazing over.
The lab I'll be working in has about 30 computers, but they all already have Windows installed on them. I don't have room to put more than two or three live stations, so most of the experience is going to be over a network.
I don't want to install Cygwin to get an X server, and I don't want to shell out money to get a commercial implementation for Windows. For shells, I'm planning on using PuTTY, since it emulates terminals very well. VNC and PuTTY are already approved software for use on-campus, so I can kill two birds with one stone.
Unfortunately, using it remotely doesn't give you a feeling for how different it is. All you get is a neat window with graphics or text in it, all within the "safe confines" of Windows. So I'm planning on having students rotate between using live stations and connecting remotely.
What's this Submit thingy do?
We've found that students in this age range, when interested in the material, can absorb a great deal of information in a short time. This means there's a lot of potential to teach them about Linux, *BSD, and open-source.
Read: kids this age are very impressionable. Let's indoctrinate them into the open source cult before they figure out that closed source is much more profitable.
This could be a big boost for open source, Linux virus writing, and hacking in general.
Kudos! Isnt open source great?
Show them lycoris first, it looks and feels like windows but its actually linux. www.lycoris.com
As a near 16 year old, I must say that something like this sounds great. I know I for one am extremely interested in learning the shell. Also, most everybody I know can duel boot and install linux with the GUI, as well as use KDE or Gnome. I believe any power user knows how to use a shell, and will be essencial for your class. Also, with any free software it seems neccesary to know how to compile source, which should be taught from day two. I would not recogmend putting 8 year olds with 16 year olds, maybe 12-16. In fact, eight seems too young for this class period. Live cds sound like a bad idea as well, my experince with them has left a bad taste in my mouth. At this age, breaking things comes naturally, so learning to troubleshoot is important, esp. troubleshooting X. Teaching programming for anything but bash/sh is a bad idea, as there are many other programing classes out there. Assuming that these kids know next to nothing is also a bad idea, for kids like this a advanced and quick pae by dayt wo should be underway. That seems to be all for now, though I must say I would love to be able to sign up for this class, I would love more info on it. Robo210
No, a non-retard.