Slashdot Mirror
Shocker: Despicable Conduct From Disney
An Anonymous Coward writes: "Phil Lelyveld, (email) a Vice President for Disney, has written to the FCC to tell them to ignore Digital Consumer's comments on the Broadcast Flag issue. The Broadcast Flag is an inter-industry conspiracy to turn over the keys to general-purpose computing to Hollywood studio execs -- under this proposal, no one will be able to ship digital television technology (like DVD recorders and FireWire) without Hollywood's permission. Lelyveld wrote to the FCC -- who are taking comments on the proposal -- without mentioning his day-job, to tell them that Digital Consumer, a civil liberties groups with more than 40,000 members, is nothing more than a "two dot.com millionaires" working to create a world "where we are all artist/waiters." Joined the EFF Yet? (or is it time to renew?) Update: 12/06 14:55 GMT by M : Lelyveld is not a lawyer. Here's a summary of his background.
I made my donation to the EFF. Did you?
slashdot!=valid HTML
If you think this is despicable conduct from a lawyer ... you've never been to court!
... nothing new. OK, "should."
... but shouldn't we be above throwing money at a problem? ;-)
Ah, the stories I could tell...
Anyway, not revealing the bias (I wouldn't elevate it to "conflict of interest") is marginal. But the FCC should evaluate the comment on its own merits, which is garden-variety badmouthing
I second the endorsement of the EFF
Refreshing.
Bill Gates has just asked Congress to pass a law such that no one will be able to ship a PC without windows. Dexter Sinister the VP of microsoft's global domination department said, "what is good for microsoft is good for the country. Disney is setting a fine example."
Anyways, just felt like saying that...
We have so much time, and so little to do - strike that! Reverse it. Tryn Mirell
Now, I'm not suprised to hear that one of Disney's lawyers (or any lawyer paid by a large corp/interest group/gov) would behave in such a way. That said, it'd be nice to see, oh, the email, or confirmation by someone who would know. I didn't see such material in any of the links in the article.
Despicable conduct from a lawyer in this day and age NO WAY, I refuse to belive that theres no way thats true.... /sarcasm
It is important for consumers to understand that systems which lack an effective technology to limit unauthorized copying of our most valuable and highest quality content, will not be able to receive it
Isn't that what Kazaa is for?I'm not sure who said it. But it sure does apply.
Also,
Same deal. I don't know who wrote it but it sure does apply
You gotta love lawyers.
But consider the alternative; if we don't keep lawyers busy they become politicians. *shudder*
Those who would live more than one life must die more than one death.
I would love to live in a world where everybody is an artist. No more megacorps to dictate what gets published and where, or how movies are made.
This is a good thing.
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
Where exactly is proof that this really happened? All I see is a bunch of links to digitalconsumer.org, some government sites, and nothing substantiating any email from anyone.
/.? Looks like someone has a bone to pick with this guy.
Don't get me wrong, I dislike the MPAA as much as the next guy, but still, this is pretty unjournalistic. Even submitted by an AC? With email on the frontpage of
--
python -c "import string,re;print string.join(map(lambda x:chr(string.atoi(x,36)),re.findall('..','2z2t2x36
Just think...if just half of their effort that was spent on influencing government regulations were focused on truly making artistic/good movies, think of the truly creative products they could come up with, isntead of rehashing old ideas. Especially with Disney's latest movie, which did rather horrible at the movies. I can see why.
I'll probably get trolled for this... but c'mon, folks, the whole attitude in the United States is "ME! ME! ME!" and people will get what they can, however they can, and the more they get, the more they can rationalize and justify putting any ethical considerations aside.
So who's surprised that a big company like Disney is sending some fucking lawyer to do clandestine dirty work for them in the name of profit?
evil adrian
"two dot.com millionaires" Are there that many left?
Here's the text:
http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/websql/prod/ecfs/ comsrch_v2.hts
it's in PDF Format
Interestingly, Google has (as of yet) no mention of the phrase "where we are all artist/waiters."
Are we supposed to believe that the story submitter a whistleblower of some kind? Or what?
When I moderate, I only use "-1, Overrated". That way, I never get meta-moderated!
That's the fundamental problem. Until my mom and your mom gets affected by this or that we'll just keep battling it out in courts. I say let it pass. Yes the ramifications are huge and won't be felt for many years down the line. However, not until the soccer mom's feel the pain of the DMCA or MPAA will we ever get "the majority of Americans" to give a flying hoot. Simple as that. I saw let them pass this law and then after a few years it'll backfire and then STRICT legistlation will be enacted to prevent the public from getting the royal screw up the butt again.
Problem is if you wish for and root for the bad guy (knowing that it'll eventually backfire) you get accussed up being on their side and supporting idealogy which is ludicrous to fathom as being "for the people, by the people".
I canceled my EFF membership long ago and support many of the causes as directly as I can.
Got a nicely petty response from them as well when I canceled.
The EFF are the folks that want to fight to allow folks to spam like their was no tomorrow. Next thing you know they'll be fighting to allow folks to spam my pager and my cell phone. In all cases, I pay for the messages I receive.
They manage to hitch on some good causes, but let's get some alternatives out there who can clearly speak to what we all care about. If nothing else it'll give folks a broader set of choices to support.
I was very impressed with some of the comments coming out of the fatwallet case for example.
What's next, a bill that will force us to go to the movies once a week?
:-(
I don't mean to sound like a troll, but for christ sake this is absolutely rediculious, why are we letting the enterainment industry push us around? We as an industry (computers) are *way* bigger then them.
What's happening to this planet ?
(1) You can't buy a cd/dvd/firewire product w/o permission.
(2) Taxi drivers have to pay royalty if their passengers listen to radio.
(3) New audio cds which will not work on standard audio equipment, but only on PCs with security locks.
(4) The DMCA which just abt doesnt let you comment/work on any digital product.
(5) Billing Kazaa users - no small amounts either
(6) MP3 compression usage now demands a royalty fee.(br) These people seem to be forgetting that they exist because of us, the customers. And they are trying to upset those very people that help them stay in business. These guys are trying to push us into a corner and will probably start charging us for the air we breathe... soon. It disgusts me, and OPEN SOURCE makes all the more sense to me. Looks like there is gonna be a war... on intellectual property and rights.. soon.
|/________
|\A|ALYS|
Okay, maybe if this guy was screwing his dog, or locking his children in his basement, or running a spam operating out of his garage, I could understand calling it "despicable conduct". But what is this guy doing, really, other than his job?
Is this somehow unexpected?
How do you get the attention of a Hollywood media mogul?
Waiter!!!
This is even worse than I gave the OP credit for! This letter could lead to the next Nuremberg trials! Bigger than the Pentagon Papers! The smoking gun!
What is this crap? Score -100; Improvidently Posted Article
Every time you pay $12.98 for a music CD you tell them you approve of the way they act.
This required a little digging (on a site linked to from EFF's Broadcast Flag site), but should've been linked to by the submitter.
"We are far too easily pleased." --C.S. Lewis
Check it out.
"We are far too easily pleased." --C.S. Lewis
Because we are lazy and are addicted to entertainment.
Lazy, because we sometimes fail to do what we know we should do (i.e. not going to and paying to see that latest Hollywood movie, etc.).
And addicted because when we sometimes are not lazy, we still go to and pay to see that latest Hollywood movie.
Life is hard. :)
Btw, if we continue to be borth lazy and addicted our addiction will be cured. Because if it'll go like this for some time, Hollywood will secure their business so much that they do not have to make good movies anymore. Or any movies (or other form of entertainment) at all.
:)
No (good) movies, no addiction (after few week of abstination).
hany
The link is there.
Donate background CPU time to fight cancer.
What did they say?
The EFF are the folks that want to fight to allow folks to spam like their was no tomorrow.
Really?! How do you get there from here? Their position appears to be very reasonable; all they are saying is that current (proposed) solutions are either inadequate or too restrictive, and I agree with them.
Could it be that you have some kind of personal problem with the EFF?
Well, I used to think that michael was a dumbass. Perhaps there is a competition at /.HQ for most bone headed story?
So far as I (and several others) can tell, this isn't News For Nerds. It's publishing unsubstantiated rants from an AC.
To top it off, you have set this stupid lawyer (is there any other kind) up for a massive slashdotting of his email server. Chris, I'd worry about liability exposure. Larry doesn't have the cash lying around to bail your sorry ass out, and I'm sure he'll hang you out to dry when this attorney sues VA for illegal denial of service.
Really, if you wanted to quit, just say so. If you are too tired, don't post a story. This could be one of the most shoddy pieces to go up in a long time. Christ, do you even know what 'editor' means? You guys seem to think it means 'crap sifter'. No, at least take a minute to look at the story and see if it seems bogus. It used to be you needed to have two sources to put something damning into print in a reputable newspaper. Apparantly, online, you need zero.
How about these for headlines:
Shocker: Slashdot 'Editor' Does Competent Job
Shocker: Slashdot Posts Yet Another Inflammatory Story
Shocker: Slashdot 'Editor' Fired For Sheer Idiocy
Shocker: Average Age of Slashdot Editor Revealed to be Fourteen
There was a bit of a hiccup when this story first came out. I got the static page a few times. Please, please, please tell me that someone cracked the byzantine Slashdot vault and posted this. Honestly, I'd have more respect for you for having a security hole than for posting this tripe on purpose.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
The problem faced by the EFF and like organizations will be convincing the public that they are not a bunch of .mp3-trading IP thieves. They are up against the deep, deep pockets of the entertainment industry, and faced with a credulous public which, as a rule, follows blindly along with the flashiest commercials (or most effective marketing campaign, as we were taught in b-school). I sincerely hope the EFF will be able to put a responsible face on digital copying and fair use issues, and will not end up looking like amoral war3z kidd33z
I agree that a federal mandate is always bad but...
Does Hollywood think they're going to be able to succeed where the satellite and cable industries have failed? Is somebody telling them that content protection can be achieved in digital where analog methods have failed?
There is no fool-proof protection. Making it easy for the consumer means making it easy for the cracker. Making it hard for the cracker means making it hard for the consumer or the provider.
the majority of the Slashdot editors are imaginary figures who represent perl scripts written by Cmdrtaco. That way he can collect more then one salary for basically doing nothing.
The best education consists in immunizing people against systematic attempts at education. - Paul Feyerabend
For those of you who are puzzled and don't know what email the post is referring to, please check this out
To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
--E.C. Stanton
Hey Phil,
a tive_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=6513391182
.com millionaires but they want everyone to become artists/waiters? Can you explain this bit of logic to me? The difference between a waiter and a millionaire .... seems vast. Almost as vast as the difference bewteen an artist with soul and a lawyer without.
In reference to your email archived here
http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?n
regarding your remarks about DigitalConsumer:
[quote] They represent nothing more than a free website.[/quote]
vast majority of websites are free. CNN is a free website for example. So is NY Times and BBC. Heck, even the FCC is a free website. If by free you mean non-profit, I can't see what there is too demean about that. Of course, I see the point you're trying to get at. You'd like everything to be corporate/controlled by big business and nuts to the little guy, or in your words "sustainable". If all REAL PEOPLE wanted what you want, why does Disney et al have to fight so hard (and underhandedly) to get their legislation passed?
[quote] We do not want to live in the world DigitalConsumer.dot is trying to create for us, where we are all artist/waiters [/quote]
so...the site is run by 2
DON'T SELL OUT TO LAWYERS WHO NEGLECT TO MENTION THEY REPRESENT VAST CORPORATE INTERESTS!
"Teachers leave us kids alone
Mmmm.. I LOVE the SMELL of FLAME war in the Morning. Posting his email address.. nice touch.. ssshh...."What was it?", "A disturbance in the network.. it felt like a 100,000 flames hit a Disney lawyers mbox.. and then silence"
Assuming Mr. Lelyveld did write this email...what, exactly, constitutes "despicable conduct"?
Maybe his characterization of Digital Consumer -- which reads, to me, as obvious hyperbole -- is inaccurate. Show me a heated political debate where each side DOESN'T routinely cast their opponents in a bad (and yes, usually "inaccurate") light?
I'm willing to give Mr. Lelyveld the benefit of the doubt, and assume that he genuinely holds the opinion expressed in the letter. After all: His professional title would, in the eyes of his email's intended audience, lend more weight to his note. If he intentionally omitted reference to his profession, it seems he took this opportunity to exercise his voice as a citizen.
However foolish and misguided we all might believe his opinion to be, do most people on Slashdot really believe that those who disagree with us -- Jack Valenti & co. -- have no right to speak their opinions? Or do you think that, by obtaining a law license, Mr. Lelyveld effectively surrendered his right to speak as a citizen?
"Shocker"? "Despicable Conduct"? This seems to me a non-issue. A government organization asked for the public's input, and Mr. Lelyveld chose to exercise his voice as a citizen. But because he disagrees with us, and because his paycheck is signed by Disney, Slashdot sees fit to cry foul and pot his email address on the front page.
We should be better than this.
Please don't read my journal
I don't think it has happened before, but this seems like a great oppourtunity.
All the "bad guys" (Microsoft, MPAA, RIAA, etc...) have more money than all the freedom-minded slashdot users could ever gather together. They pay professional writers to create /. users to post professionally-written FUD and stick around 'till they get mod points. Then they use the mod points to mod up professionally-written (i.e. paid) FUD. THEN they use the older accounts to metamod any negative moderations to their FUD. This is obvious. Wake up. They control. Do not let your opinion be swayed by paid slashdotters. I mean, come on! There are no restrictions on creating new users. They have the resources to hire armies of "people" to flood /., and any other site that has anti-MS, anti-MPAA, or anti-RIAA propaganda. Anyone else notice the slow increase of "WinXP works for me!" posts lately? Or the slow shifting towards "MS sucks, Linux rules" being modded down and "I don't know why you dis MS. It works for me."-type posts becoming the /. norm? They have the money. They can do this! Just like when MS hired all the most experienced anti-trust lawyers and stuck them with bullshit legal issues to keep the gov from bringing those same lawyers to bear against MS! The policy makers in Washington have been bought, paid for, and delivered. The line must be drawn here!
I'm too tired to provide links right now. Go googling on your own. I'm leaving civilization for a few days, and I'll be back near the beginning of the week. Think for yourself. Question authority.
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.
Let the complaints begin :)
= Mr .&firstname=Phil&middlename=&lastname=Lelyveld&suf fix=&gender=m&shorttype=t&pgraphs=10
http://hugin.sigusr1.org/~pakin/complaint?title
Because we all know that people, regardless of their wealth, who represent other people, aren't really people at all...
People will pass up steak once a week, for crap every day.
And every time I buy a painting from an artist or a song directly from a musician I'm telling them I appreciate what they do.
MS makes a tasty 480% profit on their software.... EMI gets more than 80% of the profit from each CD. It really isn't that hard to detect the bad guys in this create/buy/sell/profit/pirate game. clue---the consumer is down on the list.
I recently discovered <a href="http://www.anomalies-unlimited.com/Disney.ht ml">Anomalies Unlimited</a> and it opened my eyes to a number of questionable practices by Disney.<br>
I haven't researched the validity of these claims, but having seen one or two of them before, I tend to believe most of it.<br>What some companies/people will do for money...
"The big question in our lives is how to be at the same time a hedonist and in a hurry" - Alain Ducasse (?)
Come on, get it right.
"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals."
Austin is more fun than Dallas.
Hold out for the billionaires claiming to represent the people!
We do not want to live in the world where we are all artist/waiters... the copyright lawyers would never get tipped!
--a former artist/waiter
All the media companies are facing a horrible prospect - no longer can they control the path between the artist and the public. If they don't
learn to cope with the new world they will die.
Anyone here know how Americans have lost control of their government?
It is with extreme disgust that I write this letter and say what will really be considered money-grubbing by some of my peers. Nonetheless, it must be stated that Sex For Free's morals are not an isolated case of insincere expansionism, but a typical example of how sadistic Sex can be. To get immediately to the point, I recently informed Sex that her forces shower biased, meretricious prima donnas with undeserved praise. Sex said she'd "look further into the matter." Well, not too much further; after all, I'm sticking out my neck a bit in talking about Sex's theories. It's quite likely she will try to retaliate against me for my telling you that if you're not part of the solution, then you're part of the problem. Let me try to put this in perspective: I wonder what would happen if Sex really did place self-satisfied charlatans at the top of the social hierarchy. There's a spooky thought. You can sum up her flimflams in one word: immature. In a nutshell, the word "intercrystallization" is so compromised that I retain it only as a pejorative.
Morality the the penury of faith and trust and the beginning of confusion.
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
Looks like there is gonna be a war... on intellectual property and rights.. soon.
Reminds me of a line in Jason X:
You're lucky you weren't around for the Microsoft wars. We were beating people with our own severed limbs.
Thank you Mario! But our princess is in another castle!
Ok ... this could be Karma suicide (flinch) but I think /.ers need to examine the strategy everyone here seems to support. Everyone agrees that the MP/RIAA and the media co's are pushing IP law to the limits... I agree, but I think the strategy of stopping _every_ attempt as soon as it pops up is futile...
Simply put, they have deeper pockets than we collectively do, and they certainly have better representation both legally and politically... I AM NOT ADVOCATING rolling over and playing dead, but I am advocating passive resistence...
I think the mainstream computer user does not understand what the media companies are attempting to do...and I also think their efforts will be useless...
Consider the advertisements that the computer field uses to attract new companies..."buy a new P4 to download music"... "use XP to edit video"... "get broadband to speed downloads of music and video"...
I want to know what happens when Joe User tries to do any of the things that are advertised... buy a CD from bestbuy and you cannot play it on your computer? I bet the CD gets returned... rent a DVD and cannot play on computer?... complaint to Custserv @ blockbuster... download music and it won't play on another computer, AND you just paid full frieght?
I WANT to see the media co's get what they want... their sales will tank... who will buy a CD they can only use in one device? Remember all the grumbling when CD's came out (now I have to buy all new CD to replace my cassettes), Atleast the sound was better... a DRM CD only benefits the media co's... nobody will buy it...
I forsee two outcomes to passive resistence. Firstly, the media co's will go to far and the gov will react when Joe Consumer feels he is getting ripped off... the gov likes to act fast when ALOT of people are watching (not just a few thousand geeks)... Secondly, the harsh DRM/palladium regime will create oportunities for new players... everyone on /. seem to hate M$... so screw 'em... they get to close to the MP/RIAA then someone (linus/India/ Lik Sang) will step in to offer people what they want...
Remember information wants to be free, and consumers always prefer the *easiest* solution... someone will step in to offer a better solution...
To conclude, I am only suggesting the /.ers who understand what is going on, to inform as many 'average' computer users how to use the technology the media co's want to stop... hate the RIAA??? teach someone to use KAZAA or limewire... I would like to see the RIAA/MPAA ask users to pay in the U.S> like they did in Denmark... how many calls to congressmen would that generate? C'mon Hilary... I DARE YOU...
Average users will be pissed when P2P gets shut down...don't buy DRM products... import the non DRM one (Gabriel in the EU for instance)... the more the average user gets used to certain technology the more they feel they are entitled to it...
(flinches as he hits submit)
Bad spellers of the world untie!
I really doubt that this is very uncommon. I'm sure whenever the government asks for public opinion on if or not they should do something that will affect a big business, that big business has people "pose" as ordinary citizens to try to sway government perception.
Personally, I don't understand why the government feels the need to interfere with the market in this way. They already interfere TOO much. While it certainly doesn't sit well with me that big corps want to promote this sort of thing, it pisses me off even more that the government is even considering regulating it.
"You spoony bard!" -Tellah
Here is the text in full. I agree wholeheartedly with you, sir, on the issue of IP, and, furthermore believe that it would be in the best interest of ALL Americans if in order to curb digital piracy, the Entertainment industry worked together with the IP community and the makers of processors and microchips in order to more accurately follow the trends of media consumption. I propose a brave new world order to you Sir, and with the cooperation of a company like Verisign, and the broad, important, vitally necessary powers the President and Government have recently obtained through the Office of Homeland Security, and The Office of Information Awareness, I am certain that in a year's time we can have every American citizen fitted with a simple microchip for identification purposes. I am also certain that you realize the very real marketing opportunity afforded to a company such as Disney, and I simply cannot contain the joy within my heart, the joy which cries out, that finally, the new world order is upon us, and the forces of right and power will have soon taken their rightly place amongst the kings of the earthly empire, and that one day we may all be subjected to one authority, that of equality, under the Empire, with scorn for the dissident and praise for the polyglot cultural renaissance!! HAIL THE NEW WORLD ORDER!! HAIL BUSH!! HAIL DISNEY!!!! Anthony Passonno
They stopped voting.
I actually think he has a point. These days, if you don't like the rut Sony et al have carved for you, there's another alternative rut created by someone else for you to fall into.
I used to think I was being different back in the 80's with my goth clothes and my Bauhaus CDs, but really I was only conforming to another stereotype.
Today, you see kids desparately trying to cling onto some form of individality, but they're fighting a loosing battle. All they can do is stick another anthrax patch on their rucksack.
Could have done without the linux rant tho.
yes, www.dotcomforwardslash.com is my real URL.
Here's the thing, folks.
Broadcast is good, right? And the flag is GREAT! So, the Broadcast Flag sounds all nice and wonderful. You have to be technically aware to realize what it is:
VCR Poison. One swallow of tainted material, and everything dies.
The FCC is being asked to mandate that every VCR dutifully swallow any poison sent by a content provider. To refuse the poison would carry large fines and possibly jailtime. And the poison is cheap! The only cost would be a single switch:
Kill VCRs? ( ) Yes ( ) No
It's Just That Simple.
It's not "The Broadcast Flag". It's VCR Poison, and the FCC is deciding whether or not to allow it. This is still a democracy, folks -- what do YOU want?
Yours Truly,
Dan Kaminsky
DoxPara Research
http://www.doxpara.com
Contributing to a political movement in a different country does not seem right to me. Is there anything similar to EFF in Europe? Does EFF have plans for a European branch?
Rile those nerds Slashdot! Rile them! Feed those fears and stir those passions! Fuck big business! Kill the lawyers! Show us your hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate!
The Horror! Just think of a world where everone is a waiter and there is nobody to serve!
I think this was a typo and he really meant "writers"...
"Don't belong. Never join. Think for yourself. Peace." V.Stone, Microsoft Corporation
I thought everyone in Hollywood was already an "artist/waiter".
If what this lawyer has said is despicable, then, a large number of posters here are equally vile in nature.
;))
Like algae in a stagnant pool of water, scum abounds everywhere in the human race. Just because this guy is a lawyer, should we be surprised that he argued for his cause in a manner consistant with schoolchildren?
(Depending on who you talk to, we shouldn't be surprised at all. Indeed, we probably should have been surprised if he didn't speak in such a manner as he did.
Personally, while I'd fire the guy for lack of professionalism, I'm not surprised at all. Ever work with a platform zealot of any type? Some of them can get downright nasty. I'd be quick to fire one of those, too.
Anyway, look around you. How seriously are zealots taken around here? That's about as serious as this guy will be taken. Remember that when you send in your opinions.
Is this the same American flag which them yanks were making all the fuss about, with or without "under God(TM)" in the pledge of allegiance?
Signed:
Confused European
Not confused enough? http://translate.google.com/translate?u=www.slashdot.jp&hl=en&ie=UTF8&sl=ja&tl=en
Your message was not delivered to the following recipients:
... User Unknown
phil_lelyveld@corp.disney.com: 550 5.1.1
The Walt Disney Company and its affiliates are in the process of an e-Mail system upgrade. The person you intended to send this message to may have had their Internet e-Mail address changed, or it may be unavailable for a short time as part of this process.
If you feel that you have received this non-delivery notice in error, please contact the intended recipient by phone to confirm their address.
To have new ideas means to proceed at risk. Why risk anything when you can:
1. Rely on yr back-catalog for continuing income.
2. Defend that back-catalog with the best lawyers and politicians money can buy.
Disney as a creative body are dead.
Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious
Mulder? Nice to see you back at work....how's Scully?
What is the difference between God and a Lawyer?
God doesn't think he is a lawyer.
What do you call 100 lawyers dead at the bottom of a lake?
A good start.
How can you get 3 lawyers to wallpaper a room?
Slice them VERY thinly.
He's got a lot to learn. It would have been much more effective cover if he'd typed it like this:
D0N7 S3LL 0UT T0 TH0S3 M1LL10N41R D00DZ!
Doesn't he get enough Spam to know how to get attention?
-- Language is a virus from outer space.
That would also do well as an anti-Disney, RIAA, MPAA etc. slogan.
My Karma: ran over your Dogma
StrawberryFrog
DON'T SELL OUT TO MILLIONAIRES CLAIMING TO REPRESENT THE ARTISTS
! The entity known as "xxAA" amongst the slashbots is claiming to represent "the artists". They represent nothing more than a bunch of corporation. We need the Music Online Competition Act in place so that REAL ARTISTS who spend their lives creating content can work in a sustainable business environment where they can get paid for their work. We do not want to live in the world the xxAA is trying to create for us, where we are all denied the right to create.
Please SUPPORT the Music Online Competition Act.
Anonymous Coward.
I know this isn't the solution most people want, but if you don't like what the industry is doing then stop doing business with them. I know everyone likes their movies and music but if the industry feeding them to you is acting reprehensibly then don't give it your hard-earned dollars. If you must, build your back-catalog now and then when you can't stand their conduct anymore (the next time the government gets on their knees and gives them another stupid law to allow them to keep their antiquated business models) STOP GIVING THEM YOUR BUSINESS.
I know there will always be plenty of people who WILL continue to do business with them but we can lobby to our friends that might care and if enough of us stop buying the crap (and most of it is crap - it's the new opiate of the masses, designed to keep you from questioning what the terrorist regime in Washington, DC is up to) then maybe those new measures won't be worth the cost (lobbying, bribing, implementation costs, etc.) of putting them in place.
Only you can break the cycle.
You can still get your comments in to the
FCC. They are accepting them until 2359 6 December 2002.
http://www.nyfairuse.org/action/fcc.flag/
will take you to a form that will properly format and send your comments to the FCC.
It wasn't mentioned in the article, but the comment period ends TODAY, Dec 6th. It was originally supposed to end on October 30th, but was extended to today.
If you want to submit your opinion to the FCC on this matter, and have them read and consider it, today is your last chance.
The digitalconsumer web page for sending comments is here.
I rewrote his comment so that Slashdot readers may resubmit it to the FCC.
DON'T SELL OUT TO LAWYERS MASQUARADING AS CONCERNED CITIZENS
Phil Lelyveld is a lawyer for Disney who is clearly representing his client's views. He is nothing more than a hired gun. He needs the Broadcast Flag in place so that Disney, who has spent their lives profiting from content that has maintained copyright well beyond the initial term established by Congress can continue to profit from the work of the dead. We do not want to live in the world Phil Lelyveld and Disney are trying to create for us, where we are all beholden to media conglomerates.
Please OPPOSE the broadcast flag effort.
Your name here
Thank you for observing all safety precautions.
The poem cited above was written by a man who was vitctim of the nazi holocaust. It's magnificient, but I feel it's a little out of context here...
I mean, the DRM/'right-to-backup-your-media-debate' is important, but the holocaust issue is in another league entirely. Literally millions of people exterminated. Get a perspective, please, don't trivialize REAL atrocities.
Go ahead, mod me down.
Are you a grammar Nazi? I'm trying to improve my English; please correct my errors!
I didn't know there were any left....
Yeh, FUD is a $300 million business according to the last stats I read on this.
But then the sheer number of Slashdotters far outweighs the few Disney PR men.
So I wouldn't worry, you can spot them easy and they quickly get picked apart.
They might be professional writers, but they don't believe the things they are writing and therefore haven't thought them through.
Thats why when you argue with them, their ideas fall apart. That falling apart has far more weight than anything you can say on your own, so in effect the FUD'ers are their own worst enemy.
Their posts usually begin... "I'm going to lose karma/be modded down for this, but..."
I guess this is a case where science fiction becomes science fact? :}
Any sufficiently advanced influence is indistinguishable from control.
Ohhhhhhh, sorry! By violating Godwin's law, you have just lost the argument. But hey, thanks for playing!
What about some troll got this guy's name and posted pretending he was him.
A half serious journalistic outlet would have got in touch with this person requesting to know if he posted that and his opinion in the matter.
Inquiring minds want to know.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
-- Josh Turiel
"2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
What about when I pay $2.50 a CD at the latest music store at the mall to go out of business? >:)
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 08:36:12 -0500 (EST)
From: Matt Rosin
To: phil_lelyveld@corp.disney.com
Subject: Your post
Dear Sir:
It has been quite amusing to read about the results of your actions as
noted in the story "Shocker: Despicable Conduct From a Disney Lawyer" on
the front page of slashdot.org.
I would like to say that I have long since stopped buying your company's
products as I do not support such duplicity and sheer underhandedness as
appears to have become a cancer in your organization. I, representing the
hearts and souls of approximately 1 million anime fans, sincerely
recommend that you take a day off to reconsider your professional and
corporate goals. You can start with doing a search for Disney on slashdot
after reading the thread about yourself.
Of course if you choose to refuse this chance at improving your karma
then you can just go on living your life as your did before, seems like
a spectacular version of hell.
Sincerely yours,
Matt Rosin
CEO Telebody Inc.
One Robert Heinlein wrote that, as I recall.
It was in the story of Dr. Pinero, the man who built the machine that could accurately predict exactly the length of a person's lifespan, and the exact moment of death.
The Insurance companies did not care for this, as they were losing money all over the place. They tried a court battle, during which I think the JUDGE actually said those words, and threw the case out as idiotic. Very inspiring speech...
The insurance companies ended up whacking Pinero.
Sig currently under construction. Mind the gap....
He's not a lawyer, he's an MBA.
A Long Long Time Ago, in a continent not so far away, our ancestors set out on a "Pilgrimage". They sought out a place where they could practice their "Religion" without persecution from the "Church"..... here, about 510 years later, we are still sailing the ocean looking for that place........ ..b4 some of you flame, the words in "" are not to be taken at face value... think!!...
EVERYONE is in, uhhh, a band...Ta!
they would rather sit down and surf, watch TV, or even just vegetate rather than driving somewhere for a meeting or to even write a damn letter. I bet more than half the people here will bitch all they want, mod people up or down-but writing a letter takes too much time.
Have you ever thought that the public may not have the same issues as you do? I mean, there are a lot of more important issues in the world short of copyright infringement and the DMCA. I mean there is a whole world out there. You pessimists really think that the public is going to rush out and do all the things these lawmakers and their ridiculous rules tell us to do?
Simply put, most families are a tight rope act. Most people don't have the time to do much besides keeping that ship afloat.
Good luck. Most people have a heavy job responsibility, and a kid or two. It takes all of their time. AND I MEAN ALL OF IT. So the next time you think that the public doesn't care about issues, watch the ratings for the nightly news, Bill O'Reily, and CNN.
Don't assume they are idiots. It is not a crime to be a conservative or a liberal. It is not an assumption of someone's stupidity because they don't know DMCA rules implicitly. The public is not brilliant, but here in America, it is not dumb enough to believe everything it hears on TV, or from some corporate attorney.
Although many of you very vocal, very young ctivist types think we are all losers and you alone can save the world, TRUST ME ON THIS ONE: You will soon see the truth about all of this.
The public truly knows which end wags the dog, and who all of the bastards really are. Go ahead, take away all of our rights, see what happens in America.
Never mind that ESPN and one of the TV networks (ABC) are both Disney outlets...
I don't think Britney's label (Zomba) is a member of the RIAA. But you are correct that big media companies still get money even if you boycott them. The current compulsary licensing system makes sure of that. You even pay "royalties" on "digital audio equipment" such as CD burners.
So the next time you think that the public doesn't care about issues, watch the ratings for the nightly news, Bill O'Reily, and CNN
So who do they actually poll? Is it a truly diverse crowd? Then again do you see any other news besides those, and please don't tell me that FOX is a good news source, they are the WWF of News.
Don't assume they are idiots
Never have I made such an assumption. Ones choice of lifestyle does not qualify them as an idiot.
And yes your are totally correct about saying many people are having a hard time trying to make ends meet, but then I see so many people running up credit cards, renting lots of movies, drinking with the friends, and so much more so there must be some money and time somewhere. But I believe that you point about not having time to care is absolutely true. Everyone decides what gets their time and attention. My point was that a lot of people claim they don't even have five minute to write an email, but they have a couple of our to go out with friends or family. I was not saying to rip your life apart and totally dedicate to a cause that is just plain useless, instead just take five minutes here or there and write a letter read sometime, voice you opinion at the right place. Just to make a little change takes a little change not one dramatic change for a week or a month and then revert back.
My intention here was not to offend anyone, even though I obviously have, but just to make people realize that all the time they are spending complaining on the phone, to friends, to newsgroups, and where ever else; they could focus that energy directly towards the cause of their frustrations.
This SIG pulled due to lack of funding. (This damn war is costing too much!)
Anyone else read the logo at the top of the first link and burst out laughing:
Then they proceed to provide quotes from people like Lelyveld extolling the virtues of the S.I. content control.
Don't know about any of the rest of you but, just a few years ago if someone mentioned the phrase ``secure interconnections'' to me I would have been thinking something like ``Ah, a connector that provide a tight electrical connection that won't fall off'' and not an attack on my fair use of a broadcast signal.
CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
i remember when the phrase "two dot.com millionaires" was a term of endearment not scorn
There is no authentication on ECFS, it's entirely possible that this comment was not truely submitted by Phil Lelyveld or that it is the SAME Phil Lelyveld. Given how poorly that comment is written, I would tend to guess it was an imposter trying to undermine his own statements.
Secondly, the FCC is intelligent enough to ignore this type of comment.
Finally, if someone were an employee of company X, but were not speaking officially on behalf of said company, it would not be proper for them to list the name of the company or their position within it. If this was the real Phil Levyveld, and he was being serious, his comment is much better posted as a semi-anonymous citizen than with the name Disney attached to it.
-Alison
Trust me, you don't want me to be an artist...
Goatse troll. Seen this exact one before.
I've moved on.
FCC, listen up.
Transition to DTV is not hindered because content providers are reluctant to provide material without digital rights management. Such a hypothesis is most certainly a farse given in efforts to enact governmental regulations aimed at gauranteeing the establishment of a powerful yet unregulated national industry. Television as it is today provides no copy protection, yet there is no dearth of content. That in and of itself proves the sentiment above to be phony. In fact, the prevalence of the home video recorder in American living rooms evidences this claim, and VCR production has developed into an industry in and of itself. By the guiding hand of the free market, content providers will produce high quality digital content for television when consumers demand it and will accept none other.
There is no mandate for such regulation as the Broadcast Flag issue, and there is no saleable avenue by which to present such a work to the American people as something that is in the best interest of the country. The fact of the matter is, DTV rollout has been slow due to the expense of HDTV equipment. Manufacturer and retailer propaganda has clearly illustrated the superiority of the high definition format to the American consumer, yet in our current state of economy, the American consumer simply cannot afford to take out a loan simply to purchase a television. Take heed not to enact regulations that our nation cannot afford during this troubled time, and take action to preserve the free enterprise that has built our nation from a dream.
Can a free website live in a nation without freedom?
I make a polite effort to deflect the nth silly slander of lawyers, and that's overrated? Goes again the party line does it? Or just too subtle without a smiley?
Remarkable for a group that beats the First Amendment drum so ferociously.
Any parellels between that and the DMCA/Hollings bill are surely a coincidence, right?
--Dave
Dear Mr. Lelyveld,
I wanted to write in support of your efforts to silence the little people and crush their rights and lives under your corporate bootheel. You are doing a fine job in helping to create more misery on Earth and I so enjoy seeing that.
To give you further incentive to continue your good work, I wanted to let you know that when the time is right, I have a special reward for you here in my own land of fun. I can assure you it is far more interesting than that Disneyland park you use to coerce the children into making their parents give away money that could have been used to educate them better. I have some very special attractions lined up for you and some of my best personal servants lined up to service you upon your arrival.
So keep fighting the good fight and don't let those miserable little louts get the upper hand. Remember that you are earning a most delightful place at my feet when your time comes.
Sincerely,
The Devil
--Won't that be grand? Computers and the programs will start thinking and the people will stop. - Dr. Walter Gibbs
Too bad it's actually a valid comparison in this case, whereas it usually is not.
http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?na tive_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=6513391850
Jared
Assuming the post to the FCC was indeed from they same guy who works for Disney, why is this so bad? The FCC asked for comments and he submitted one. He's responding to a public invitation by giving his opinion.
I disagree with him, but I don't see how he's doing anything wrong.
Re-read Godwin's.
"[Usenet] "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups. However there is also a widely- recognized codicil that any intentional triggering of Godwin's Law in order to invoke its thread-ending effects will be unsuccessful."
It's only a faux tradition that the mentioner loses. And besides, Godwin's "law" is bullshit.
"This confirmation verifies that ECFS has received and accepted your filing. However, your filing will be rejected by ECFS if it contains macros, passwords, redlining, read-only formatting, a virus ..."
What? I can't include a virus in my submission? What's this country coming to? (and why do they need to state such a restriction so clearly? Did the word "implied" lose its meaning?)
In fact, that's one of the best ways that media companies are responding to the fragmentation threat. They're buying existing channels, and they're starting their own narrowcast channels, too. Not only does that help the networks stay afloat, but it also, in the long run, increases viewership overall - it's just more fragmented than it was in the days when the whole nation watched the last episone of M*A*S*H.
Discovery is another good example - it's pretty much a company owned by three big media conglomerates (Liberty, Cox, and Advance/Newhouse). But it was started and exists to exploit several niche markets, and does so effectively. They have 8 channels here in the US, a chain of retail stores, a merchandising/licensing operation, and a business producing content for other companies. They don't have one single monolithic channel that the whole nation turns to. They're exploiting the market niches that they fit best into. Generally speaking, that's the strategy that best fits the market nowadays.
ESPN is an interesting case. First, they were founded as the "original" cable niche player, though Getty Oil was a huge investor. Then ABC (when they were an independent company) jumped on-board, and ESPN got more and more assimilated as ABC got bought by Cap Cities and then Disney. Now ESPN is a conglomerate unto itself, with restaurants, multiple channels, a magazine, and a distinctive ESPN "brand". Meanwhile, the ESPN concept kicked off the explosion in sports networks, with channels now like the Fox Sports Net national and regionals, NESN, YES, MSG, and a host of others all over the country (like Sunshine, Outdoor, the Golf Channel, and more). But ESPN was there first.
-- Josh Turiel
"2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
When they took the fourth amendment, I was quiet because I didn't deal drugs.
When they took the sixth amendment, I was quiet because I was innocent.
When they took the second amendment, I was quiet because I didn't own a gun.
Now they've taken the first amendment, and I can say nothing about it.
Atlas Shrugged : Thematic Story
..the text forgets to put paragraphs in YOU!
Trust me, you don't want me to be an artist...
Unlike Philip Lelyveld, I have respect for artists and waiters. Both meanings of that statement are true:
P_L_respect = 0
aritst_respect = 1
waiter_respect = 1
If he and others did not use the law to protect racketers, your would be a little better.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
The unfortunate thing about what the entertainemtn industry is trying to do with this and many other proposals is that the majority of people out there don't understand how it can/will affect them. What the EFF should try to do is a marketing campaign similiar to the "truth" anti-smoking industry campaigns. Ah, but that requires using the same industry we are having issues with. Fortunately the all mighty dollar should be able to get them on the air. Other ideas can include taking out ads in newspapers and magazines. Again, I'm sure the media would love the dollars, and more of the general populace can start to understand what the MPAA/RIAA and companies like Disney are trying to do to them. Just a thought.
Just realise the reality of the situation..... There is no reality.
"It's only a faux tradition that [...]"
Please define the indicators that a tradition is "faux"
they are the WWF of News.
I think you mean the WWE of news. World Wildlife Fund "0wnz" the WWF.
If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
When he says, "We do not want to live in the world DigitalConsumer.dot is trying to create for us, where we are all artist/waiters." He really means it. Phil Lelyveld would hate to have a real job and do things for people. He does not want to live in a wold that does not sustain his and a few select others ability to rape everyone else.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I should mention I'm not an American so this may be a bit out of line but I still have to say it. You people put too much trust into FCC and your government. Didn't FCC just allow baby Bells and cable comanies monopolies on their networks? OK, cable companes built cable networks so that may be OK but phone lines were built by public money I assume. And you still expect them do something about all this *AA / Disney BS. It looks to me they are all in bed together. I think they'll shove the Broadcast flag / Palladium / (whatever you want to call it) down your throats whether you want it or not.
It appears good ol Phil decided to change his email address...
... User Unknown
Your message was not delivered to the following recipients:
phil_lelyveld@corp.disney.com: 550 5.1.1
The Walt Disney Company and its affiliates are in the process of an e-Mail system upgrade.
The person you intended to send this message to may have had their Internet e-Mail address
changed, or it may be unavailable for a short time as part of this process.
If you feel that you have received this non-delivery notice in error, please contact the
intended recipient by phone to confirm their address.
Reporting-MTA: dns;hermes.corp.disney.com
Final-Recipient: rfc822;phil_lelyveld@corp.disney.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
What other authors does Iron Maiden suggest?
Keep your packets off my GNU/Girlfriend!
Artists and waiters do a lot more good for this world than corporate executive pig dog fuckwits like Phil Lelyveld.
Yeah, there are way too many artists. A vice president of Disney saying 'fuck art'. Big surprise.
What kind of a loser would want to be an artist, anyway? Michaelangelo. Jimmy Hendrix. Mark Twain. Stanly Kubrick. Umm, Walt Disney.
How do such complete and utter morons end up in such positions of power and influence? Something is really wrong about that.
--Lawrence Lessig for Congress!
Just for the record, I AM NOT of the the "dot com millionaires" that Mr. Lelyveld of Disney despises so. I am just a normal guy who makes a living on intellectual property (software development).
The broadcast flag would, first and foremost, have a chilling effect on free speech by making fair uses of copyrighted works (for research, commentary, parody, etc.) illegal under the DCMA (the flag being a protection device under that law).
In addition, whereas the home user's right to time-shift and archive programming has been upheld for nearly two decades (Sony Corp. v. Universal City Studios, 1984), such a broadcast flag would render PVR (ReplayTV/TiVo) technology illegal. These large corporations use OUR AIRWAVES, track wires through OUR BACKYARDS and right-of-ways, and take up limited beaming locations in OUR SKY. They are, in effect, localized and publicly-permitted monopolies.
I can't trample through your yard, hoist a lemonade stand on it, charge you for a drink, and then force you to drink it all right then, right there as I blast advertisements in your ear. Yet, these comanies have licenses granted by your agency to use our resources, and still force us to enjoy their product exactly when and how they feel like it.
In the end, comsumers should decide what they buy, when they enjoy it, and how they use it. Existing copyright laws are sufficient to protect these companies from true piracy, new "features" like this broadcast flag would make non-infringing uses illegal and will only hurt the average consumer who desires privacy and flexibility in enjoying the entertainment they pay good money for. The flag itself (as proposed) could be easily bypassed by pirates, as can *ANY* encryption technology given pirates with enough financial incentive to do so.
In closing, I urge you to require the content industry to demonstrate that its proposed technologies will allow for all legal uses and will actually achieve the stated goal of preventing piracy. If they cannot, I urge you not to mandate the broadcast flag.
BTW, it's important to know that today is the last day you can submit comments to the FCC telling them what you think about the broadcast flag. For more details:
2 002.html
http://www.lxny.org/announce/2002/FCC.6.December.
--Lawrence Lessig for Congress!
Disney's fired about 80% of its art staff, because with new computer technology, they just don't need all those 'tweeners, fillers, background painters, and other skilled workers.
Contrast this with other studios, who RETRAIN their staff to use the new technology instead of just dumping them (hey, it's cheaper to just train someone new, and they'll work for less).
I wonder how many of them Disney personally turned into 'artist/waiters'?
-Hentai [in vita non pacem est]
The first argument claiming "[lawyer] ethics aside" could be viewed as
an intentional triggering of Godwin's Law. Put ethics aside so it is
just people doing their job? That sounds too familiar. I knew the
blitzkreig would be on soon.
I still find it funny when the EFF and the ACLU are brought up in a discussion in which someone elses 1st Amendment rights are being lambasted.
Doesn't this guy have a right to free speech as well?
There are very few real things in this world...this isn't one of them.
Thank you for the docket number.
I just made a few edits to the Digital Consumer letter, and cut & paste it into the official FCC comment submittal form.
That way it's not just another Digital Consumer spam.
And the best part...it took less time than posting this comment.
So ya'll get to it.
Operator, give me the number for 911!
No, it's not the same. One is advancing a particular interest, the other, a universal interest. That makes all the difference.
This guy comes across as Hilary Rosen with a schlong.
since his disney one isn't working:
pblely@ix.netcom.com
"Fuck Mickey Mouse! Fuck him in his asshole with a big rubber dick! Then break it off and beat him to death with the rest of it!"
I think George pretty much covered it.
Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
If we each go to the following URL, enter the essential information, and press "Send Comments to FCC" button, I sincerly hope the FCC will get the impression that Phil Lelyveld does not represent "REAL PEOPLE" and that DigitalConsumer.org is more than just two dot com millionaires.
n t.html
http://www.digitalconsumer.org/bcastflag/fcccomme
Another question to ask is "How were artists, composers and performers renumerated prior to the advent of the recording industry?"
And yet another good question is, why were they being given new numbers when what they really needed was money?
We lost control when
1. Congress became a full time job
and
2. When it started costing Millions of Dollars to run for office.
Also:
3. The passage of the 17th Amendment in 1913.
The Constitution originally provided that:
Section 3. The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each state, chosen by the legislature thereof, for six years; and each Senator shall have one vote.
The 17th Amendment replaced this with:
The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each state, elected by the people thereof, for six years; and each Senator shall have one vote.
There was a reason why the House of Representitives was elected by the people and the Senate was chosen by the legislature. The reason was to establish a balance of power.
The members of the House of Repesentatives were to be elected by the public. It was expected that they would obtain election to office by making promises to the public, because that's how you get elected to office, plain and simple. The result, and problem, would be a steady increase in the duties, power and authority of the Federal Government at the expense of the power and authority of the State Governments, causing the State legislatures to become meaningless in the face of ever-increasing Federal power.
The Senate was supposed to act as a counterbalance. Because the Senate was selected by the State legislatures, the Senators were expected to represent the interests of the State legislatures, and act as a force opposing the expansion of Federal power. Senators didn't have to raise campaign funds and make campaign promises to appeal to the public -- instead they had to appeal to the State legislatures and promise to represent the interests of the States. That's why there were two Senators per state, as opposed to the proportional representation of the House. The design of the Senate was supposed to ensure that the interests of the state legislatures would be equally represented in the Federal Government, both amongst the states, and as a whole against the House.
This simple change to the Constitution destroyed the balance of power and over time has resulted in the mess that we have today.
Now, Senatorial candidates must raise millions of dollars, and make campaign promises directly to the public, just like House candidates. Therefore, both houses arrive in Washington with a mandate from their electors -- the public and corporate donors -- to expand the Federal government to fulfill the campaign promises that placed them in office.
The best way to deal with the problems of the growth of Federal power and excessive influence of corporations in Senatorial campaigns would be to repeal the 17th Amendment, and return control of the Senate to the State legislatures where it was originally intended to reside as a counterbalance to the populist Federal expansionist tendencies of the popularly elected House of Representitives.
The results of the 17th Amendment serves as a powerful cautionary tale to those who would make seemingly "harmless" amendments to the Constitution. The Constitution was a brilliantly designed document, riddled with checks and balances. In this case, a simple and apparently harmless change, increasing public participation in government elections by providing for the popular election of Senators, has disrupted the balance of power, and resulted in the gigantic, ever-increasing Federal Government we have today.
> The Constitution was a brilliantly designed document, Hilariously, not one person who was involved in writing or ratifying the Constitution would have agreed with you.
>> In the future EVERYONE is in a band.
:)
"In Soviet Russian future, band is in YOU!!"
So the next time you think that the public doesn't care about issues, watch the ratings for the nightly news, Bill O'Reily, and CNN.
People who really care about the issues will do some digging and get some information rather than sitting there like a lump letting the nightly news, Bill O'Reilly, and CNN tell them what to think.
Someone you trust is one of us.
I know. They all expected that it would be replaced by something better. If only they knew.
Despite what we learn in Jr. High/High School, you'll often find later in your educational careers that our founding fathers designed our political system to indeed be a money driven one. It is quite intentional. Why does everyone seem so shocked when we see this manifest itself today?
I know. They all expected that it would be replaced by something better. If only they knew.
Another example of what happens when something gets established as a 'standard'.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."