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Chemotherapy Patients Set Off Subway Alarms
dave writes "Recently, cities such as New York and elsewhere have been installing radiation detectors in subways as an anti-terror precaution. However, as reported in New Scientist, patients who are undergoing radiation treatment are setting off the alarms. From the article, "a 34-year-old patient who had been treated with radioactive iodine for Graves disease, a thyroid disorder, returned to their clinic three weeks later complaining he had been strip-searched twice in Manhattan subway stations.""
Irradiated pedestrians! Seriously though, I never thought they'd get enough radiation shot into them to set off detectors, unless the threshold is way to low.
Chemotherapy is not radiation therapy!
n/t
"I think all foreigners should stop interfering in the internal affairs of Iraq"
-- Paul Wolfowitz, 7/21/2003
Can i somehow block stroies with links to New Scientist?
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
My guess is that the detectors are set to "go off" even if the tiniest amount of radiation is found. That way, any attempt by terrorists to try to hide the radiation (thick lead, etc) will be thwarted.
Sex - Find It
...radiotherapy.
(Since none of the other whiners offered it.)
...got nailed twice. He was driving around the U.S. late at night, heading back into Canada, and a patrol unit pulled him over, threw everything out of the back of his trunk, then interrogated him for a little while. He drank some kind of radioactive fluid to treat his cancer after his surgery, and it had set off an alarm in the patrol car.
Same thing happened once he got to the border. The border guard let him go, then some guy came running out of the customs building screaming at the top of his lungs. They stopped him and he had to read them the same story all over again. This drug is so powerful he can only take it once every six months.
Normally thyroid cancer patients are told to stay some distance from family members when they return home. After a few days the levels are lower and such precautions aren't necessary.
I don't know if the levels are lower for Grave's disease, or if this person should not have been on crowded subways. But to detect the levels in a shielded device, you would probably want the sensors to be pretty sensitive. Sensitivity also helps to allow fewer detectors to be used.
Should a strip-search be necessary? I doubt it.
Just hold the detector close to the thyroid to verify the guy's story. Maybe hospitals could give out cards, and the security folks could phone the hospital for confirmation.
Or just call a cab for the poor guy.
Free book: Science Toys You Can Make
A friend of mine had a summer job at Triumpf a number of years ago. Triumf is a particle and nuclear physics lab. One day he took the morning off to get some medical tests done where they injected him full of tracer isotopes. We he tried to go back to work in the afternoon he set off half the radiation alarms in the place just by walking through the front door.
They gave him the rest of the day off.
Would you need to a chemo-card to prove that you really had cancer and had to have the treatment? I hope and pray folk are not harassed, as that is very last thing that they need in their lives (very personal experience talking there).
On a rather serious note, it is interesting to see that someone even had the thought that someone carrying a dirty bomb strapped to them would "pose" (and I use the word here literally, so do not flame me here) as a cancer patient. Perfect way to disguise it, very clever. And to think that security noticed it at least commendable.
I have been searched at the airport EVERY single time I have flown.
I was just searched for explosives, stopped in the next line, questioned as to why I had prescription blood pressure medicine, and why I had a car stereo in my bag.
I don't know if it is the beard or what, but I should not be picked for the random searches over 80% of the times I board a plane.
I'm glad I live in Canada.
Go ahead, mod me down.
Veni, vidi, vici.
Of particular note is that the NYT was *not* able to verify that anyone said they carrying a note from a doctor would be useful; rather, it said the police would not accept such a letter as "sole proof" that the person was not trying to pull a fast one on them, and would still conduct a full investigation.
i wonder if the older glow in the dark watches or police with tritium on thier guns would set them off?
I think I'll buy an unmarked box of Fire Detectors and leave them in the subway... Fun...
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
Maybe I can get it, that way the women security guards will frisk me. Only change a girl will ever touch me :o
This doesn't surpise me at all. On National Public Radio today (All Things Considered) a researcher was talking about the best research tool for tracking down weapons of mass destruction: a 4" x 4" cotton swab. They run the swab over almost any surface and can detect radioactive material to the level of 1 part per billion. Geeez.
--
Trade it on Trodo!
http://trodo.com
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/me set the BS flag up.
Radioactive stuff is mostly used to follow something you ingest, or an injection.
I really can't see the use of a powerful, radioactive drug taken every 6 months.
Though I might be wrong, I have serious doubt.
A message from the system administrator: 'I've upped my priority. Now up yours.'
all the others: YOU FAIL IT!
I know that some radioactive iodine isotopes are used for thyroid treatment as a marker or for destruction of cancerous thyroid tissue. Thyroid tissue absorbs iodine and certain iodine isotopes.
That explains why intensive use of the subway can lead to stupidity.
Just in Homer's path....
That would totally suck. On the other hand you could dress up for halloween as the simpsons character "RadioActiveMan", and have a neat story to go along with it. Of course I don't think it would score you any chicks.
That guy must have a hell of a time getting to work.
Maybe there's another reason he got strip searched.
And he was strip searched IN THE SUBWAY STATION? Dude, I hate to break the news, but those weren't cops that were doing the strip searching.
I've seen no evidence of this whatsoever. Has anyone else who rides the NYC subways seen anything that could be a detector?
Does anyone know how large a device it would take to adequately monitor an underground space like a subway station and/or how much radiation is received in an imaging test? I believe they use barium for some of these tests.
this sig deleted by another sig
Don't purchase a new smoke detector and take it on the subway - they'll likely call in the National Guard.
What about people's cellphones?
A "dirty bomb" could be made out of alpha-active material. Alpha-radiation (He nuclei) will be stopped by a few pieces of paper. If the material is in a suitcase there is no radiation outside.
When the material is spread by an explosion, a fire or some other way, people will inhale it and it will stick in their lungs, giving them a huge dose of radiation.
Any sufficiently advanced libertarian utopia is indistinguishable from government.
What about this guy?
9 07 52.html
http://wcbs880.com/water/watercooler_story_2980
I never thought cat shit could be more offensive, but add radiation and we take it to a whole new level.
From the Article "Oct 25, 2002 9:04 am US/Eastern
(AP) (WHITMAN, Mass. ) A man who ignored a veterinarian's order to flush his cat's radioactive waste down the toilet was hit with a $2,800 bill.
And Bill Jenness said he's happy to pay it.
"I don't feel I was mistreated," Jenness told The Patriot Ledger of Quincy. "It's my cat, my responsibility and I did not abide by the directions I was given."
Jenness' cat, Mitzi, an 11-year-old shorthair, was treated with an injection of radioiodine after developing hyperthyroidism, which is common in cats her age.
The treatment makes the cat radioactive for weeks, so special care is required, including limiting snuggling time, keeping the cat away from children and pregnant women and using protective gloves when flushing the cat litter.
Jenness said he decided to throw the litter in the trash after the waste hardened into abnormally large clumps.
"I was afraid of my septic system being clogged," he said.
Mitzi's mess was discovered at an incinerator in Rochester when alarms detected radioactivity. Workers traced the waste to Jenness after finding mail with his name on it nearby.
The radiation treatment by Radiocat in Waltham and cost of disposing the waste totaled about $5,000. Jenness said it was worth it because Mitzi is doing well.
Radiocat's Web site says the amount of radiation from a radioiodine shot is probably less than the amount a person receives on a long plane flight or a day at the beach.
But Thomas Burnett, a Whitman public works commissioner, said any radiation in trash is too much.
This is too funny.
Puto
The Revolution Will Not Be Televised
Isn't this a bit extreme? I mean, if they ran the "magic wand" or whatever over him, the levels would be constant enough to confirm it. I mean, if his head were giving off radiation, it would more or less confirm the story. Since lots of (irradiated?) blood passes through the brain, I would assume that it would have a high concentration?
Of course, if he had a green glowing trouser snake once they searched him, this would probably tip them off too.
Um, sorry sir. wow - can you use that thing as, like, a night-lite or something
Now would be the time to get a Radioactice Man suit and ride the subway. Imagine the looks you would get from the subway staff.
UP AND ATOM!
This is just more fallout (no pun intended) from the Bush/Ashcroft "War On Terrorism", which is really just a thinly veiled way to erode people's Constitutional rights. Do you think that strip searching a cancer patient is a reasonable search as defined by The Constitution? Do you think that radiation detectors that force cancer patients to reveal their illness and treatment to complete strangers is a reasonable form of search?
People need to open their eyes and see what kind of police state the Bush administration is creating -- before it's too late.
I'm a second-year oncology resident. Some chemotherapies are given in six-month cycles. Some chemotherapies involve radioactive chemicals. You're wrong.
I'm radioactive muthafucka!! Chillin' da most in the CDC. Watch out 'cuz I'm gonna get nuclear on yo ass..... BEATCH!!!!!
They may choose not to use public transportation to avoid this inconvenience...
I'm sorry. Getting aroud NYC and many big cities without public transit is expensive, and complicated. Also, I would think that perhaps one might be irritated if they can't use the PUBLIC transit system their tax dollars pay for.
What will most likely happen in the end is that you will have a letter designation or something on a drivers license or on your state issued id/passport (everyone who flies knows that you have to have id). Yes, this could be defrauded, but anything can...
[Something witty and intelligent should have appeared here.]
{Traicovn}
As long as your up to it, never forget that NY city's security force gave birth to the term "plunger rape" while beating said African descended people...
Of course, perfection demanded in perfection attained....
When I submitted this story:
2002-12-06 18:34:29 Radiation Treatment Patients Set Off Subway Alarms (articles,tech) (accepted)
The editors changed it, to Chemotherapy... which is obviously not the same... Oh well.
"We shall show mercy, but we shall not ask for it" -- Winston Churchill
Well posting as an AC and trolling as well. Ho hum.
1. Cops do whip black ass, and white ass, hispanic ass, all kindsa ass. Course next to Latin America and Russia, I would prefer a US ass whuppin than one of those. Have seen South American and Russian cops tear it up. And people don't sue there.
Hey you know what? I am a Jewish Hispanic. And I look like I should be selling rugs in a bazaar. I look more Arabic than most Arabs. I get searched in airports. Big deal, 5 minutes extra. Makes me feel kinda safe. I have been searched five times this year and the people in the airport were nothing but nice and apologetic to me.
We had a load of hurt come down on our country and we are watching our backs. Nothing wrong with that, and I am happy we are doing it. And you can use the arguement that the methods they are using are not effective. Well please suggest something. Should we do nothing?
I hold citizen ship in the UK,US, and Colombia. Pretty varied huh? Guess I am lucky, gotta pretty good world view IMHO.
The US does some harsh shit sometimes, but we do a lotta good stuff too. Stop trolling, stop being an AC.
I gotta tell you somehing as well. These days more BLACK people have asked me if I was an arab. Trying be a computer geek who is in radioshack buying wire when a big black man says"lookit at ol bin lades kid getting his shit for a bomb, damn, you aint gonna blow me up, just where in the hell or you from"
Man, got me all pissed on a friday night.
The Revolution Will Not Be Televised
There are what I assume to be radiation detectors all over the financial district.
:)
I don't want to give away any details that may help someone evade these things, but believe me, I know what I've seen. Anyone who's been travelling to Manhattan for 20 years, and is aware of their surroundings, knows at least some of the places where detectors have been set up.
Hopefully, the terrorist scum plotting and surveying for the next attack, haven't spent a lot of time in NYC and don't know a firebox from a parking meter.
Oh yeah, and like anyone who's not braindead doesn't know that they're going to try to hit one of the exchanges. UH Huh.
Huh?
why not the women? always the guys strip searched not the women.
Radio-iodine is used to treat thyroid cancer. Not saying this is definitely not BS, but it could be legit. HTH
My other sig is also a
The goatse.cx guy could use one of those swabs.
"My guess is that the detectors are set to "go off" even if the tiniest amount of radiation is found. That way, any attempt by terrorists to try to hide the radiation (thick lead, etc) will be thwarted."
If anything, all those false positives will make it easier to sneak in a nuclear or radiological device. When the alarms are going off every day you tend not to be as attentive as you would be otherwise, and the personnel involved won't exactly give a thorough search.
How did 12/7/41 and 9/11/01 happen? Too much information gathering, not enough information interpretation. And from the looks of this, we're setting ourselves up for more of the same.
My neighbor got this treatment. She wasn't allowed within 12 feet of living things for something lie 2 weeks.
I call no BS. My sister-in-law had thyroid cancer. She was treated with radioactive iodine. Her children were not allowed to be in the same room with her and her husband was warned to limit his exposure.
There is an upper limit on the amount of radiation you can be exposed to "safely" within a year. I think it's entirely reasonable to suppose that some radiation treatments for cancer would result in a dose of radiation close to half the yearly "safe" amount.
HAHA!
I thought the largest source of naturally occuring radiation was from the burning of coal, or maybe they scrub that. Someone please sound the alarm if they aren't scrubbing coal dust these days -- setting off radiation security sensors might be the only way to get the fossil fuel industry to continue scrubbing under a potential Bush II ii administration.
I think it was the NYT that reported recently a guy who was entering the White House after a medical procedure and heart a faint electronic noise go off. He was instantly surrounded by the Secret Service which, given their limited sense of humor, is a pretty frightening thing. (I am proud that years ago I got one of them to smile. :)
I don't think he was strip-searched (he didn't work there but was a VIP of some sort).
You are wrong! Greenpeace told me that ALL things nuclear are BAD! :->
Now, see, if this were really a police state, you wouldn't be able to post that as an AC.
But are those radioactive chemotherapies given orally or are they injected? I'm not a doctor (obviously) but it would seem that something ingested would not be able to target a specific organ or whatever. I know that many medications only act on specific body parts/organs, but I'd think that a radioactive agent would/could also affect nearby non-cancerous areas (possibly in an undesireable way).
I'm not trying to be a smartass, I'm really curious.
Look at all the happy creatures dancing on the lawn...
>>Hey you know what? I am a Jewish Hispanic
So is this guy.
No offense. It's just a joke.
Huh?
It apparantly is no longer enough for them to MISS typos in their own writings, they have to introduce them into other peoples'!
"And like that
Yes, you are correct. However, that is not chemotherapy, it is radiation therapy.
It's kind of like calling a capacitor a resistor. Yes, they're both small electronic parts, and they both go on circuit boards. But they are radically different items, and are not interchangeable.
Judging by a post by the article submitter, it was the slashdot editors who decided to switch one word for the other. Apparently "chemotherapy" is a more l33t word.
Cellphone users should *definitely* be strip-searched. God are they annoying.
(Please browse at -1 to read this comment.)
Every body knews that radiation does NOT stay in the body. It just passes thru, no harm done.
This story is probably nothing but mass hysteria.
Pretty soon, I guess Slashdot will start saying that SUVs and cell phones radioactive and that yeti exist. Guess wott? Im bigfoot.
Tiny amounts of radiation in catshit in a landfill is too much, even though its probably full of smoke so detectors. So.... FLUSH it, so it ends up in the septic tank, runs out through the leach bed into the ditch, down to the creek and into Lake Ontario.
Fucking brilliant.
This space available.
it's well-known that in the army and other security forces the percentage of gayness is particularly high. not that this is wrong or anything but it might explain a thing or two.
How the hell can anyone moderate that comment as flamebait? It was insightful and intelligent. The poster was right. Bush and Ashcroft are turning the USA into a police state. The two of them have used the so-called war on terrorism as an excuse to throw the constitution out of the window. Did you even know that law enforcement can force librarians to reveal what books you check out and that the librarians are under a gag order so that they cannot tell you that they were approached? Did you know that post 9/11 there were grocery stores asked for their customer databases with all customer purchases? How about the detainees in the U.S. who have been locked away for months with no trials, no charges, and no access to attorneys?
There's a report on it in the New England Journal of Medicine (1998). It's not a capsule of plutonium or anything, it's a radioactive iodine. I didn't believe it myself until I saw the kind of treatment he was undergoing.
Did he get his clothes back?
USA bad! US sanctions kill babies! GWB makes Sadam look like a saint! Yankee go home! Yay euro!
(Because, with a subject line like that on Slashdot, you kinda have to...)
what they should do is just put a bullet through your head if you have cancer - get 'em out of the gene pool.
plunger rape? wtf, please explain
It's like the man with the metal plate inside his head getting buzzed everytime he travels. Oh the wonders of technology.
So eventually these guys will realise that radioation patients set off the alarms, so the real terrorists will know what to say when they really are carrying radioactive material.
I.O.U One Sig.
Chemotherapy radiation therapy.
IANARO (Radiation Oncologist), but have some knowledge of this subject.
Usually Iodine-131 is given as ablation therapy for hyperthyroidism... the thyroid gland takes up the radioactive iodine (just like it takes up regular iodine) and literally burns itself out. The damage is localized because I-131 is a beta emitter. You can get the gland surgically removed as an alternative, but most people go for the pill... it's just easier. There may be specific indications for surgical removal (discrete mass, need pathology input, etc), but I could not name them.
There are other radioactive treatments for cancers... radioactive "seed" implants in prostate cancer for instance. I have never seen anyone walking around in public with them, but scanning someone being treated in that fashion might be interesting (to say the least). If airline security goons are making new mothers drink their own breastmilk (yes, I said "goons," there's no other name for someone who would do something that stupid) I can see some overzealous security folks doing a body cavity search to find the source of that "rectal radiation." I shudder at the thought of the lawsuit amount after something like that.
People undergoing chemotherapy will not set off any radiation alarms. However, from a theoretical standpoint, I can see the possibility of them setting off chemical warfare agent detectors. Please note the detectors would have to be outrageously sensitive (I don't know if it's even possible to make them that sensitive)... almost all of the chemotheraputic agents in common use are metabolic poisons of one type or another, including drugs like the nitrogen mustards (related to mustard gas). I could see someone getting some chemo solution spilled on their sleeve, and setting of somebody's chemical warfare sniffer. Someone with a little more chemical warfare experience want to comment?
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
The Canadian Atomic Energy Control board lists it's exposure schedule here.
:)
I remember reading something years ago about 600 Rems a year being the safe limit for an individual but this shows it to be considerably lower.
I wonder how much radiation those little radium watch dials gave off
As I recall, nuclear power plants have often gone on alert for false positives resulting from radon exposure in the home.
While the odds are slim, considering the entire length Adirondack and Appalachian mountains range from Georgia to Canada, porions of which contain significant uranium ore veins, there's going to be a considerable amount of radon gas emitted by these veins as they go through the natural process of decay. What does this mean? Inevitably, there will be false positives as well. More people will be detained, more public outcry.
On a momentary tangent, I have difficulty putting too much weight in New Scientist's journalistic integrity. For example, why haven't pacemakers set off the alarms? While they may be shielded to a certain degree for safety, I doubt that they're 100% shielded against detection.
And what of nuclear power plant employees, or students of radiological sciences in college, or radiotherapy doctors in hospitals? All of these pick up marginally higher levels of radiation in their fields, why aren't they setting off alarms either?
To ensure against repeats of that article, the police need to (at least) inform the public of the minimum level of radiation that the sensors will trip on, so that at least innocent people won't be grabbed by police, just because they were picking up an old Radium book they won in an auction online.
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
I dont know if you're really proud of yourself or something, for having learned just enough programming to do a stupid script like that, but for the love of god, quit advertising such a stupid piece of shit! It's NOT funny! It's NOT useful! It's the world's greatest waste of webspace ever!
Just go and throw yourself off a cliff or something for being so fucking DUMB!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Its a good thing I don't live in NYC, being a physicist I've gained a helathy glow over the years.
I might not actually glow as my friends claim, but after noticing some variations in background radiations once, I took some measurements. I found out that my right hand is more radioactive than the left and hence changed the background radiation depending on which hand I held the detector in. Could someone from NYC tell me where the detectors are, so if I ever use the subways I know which side to walk on?
Let them settle things with a duel!
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get a Beowulf cluster of those chemo patients...
Why, we could take over the subway!
Depends upon the type of radiation source and the detector in use. Alpha, beta and gamma radiation are different animals and emitted by radioisotopes in different amounts.
Alpha particles are helium nucleii without electrons; beta particles are electrons; gamma radiation is electromagnetic radiation similar to X-Rays. Alpha and beta radiation are mostly stopped by inches to feet of air; gamma is more or less unaffected. Harmful doses are more complicated to assess, but basically, alpha and beta emitters are typically harmful when they get into your body and emit particles right next to cells, where they cause ionizing damage. Inserting alpha and beta emitters within a tumor is, essentially, what one form of radiotherapy does; put deadly ionizing radiation into a tumor to kill it. Radium has been an effective treatment for breast cancer (one of the first reasonably successful ones) since the 1920's.
Gamma radiation, although it passes through many feet of air and well into tissue, is not as damaging because it is not ionizing. However, high exposures have significant impacts. Gamma will pass through metals more or less unaffected.
The detectors are likely designed to pick up gamma radiation characteristic of enriched fissionable materials, because gamma passes through several feet of air. However, certain types of radiotheraputic isotopes (e.g. radium) also emit a heck of a lot of gamma.
Thus, the dilema of false positives for radiotherapy patients. If you want to pick up enriched radioisotopes, you will pick up gamma from legitimate theraputic uses. We should provide radiotherapy patients with a hospital-issued ID so they do not have to suffer through security checks. It would not be much more difficult than issuing a driver's license.
"No officer, I'm not carrying a dirty bomb. I just had a Barium enema. Would you like to check my ass with your radiation detector?"
"You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
Perhaps we should get some money together to get 'em a cab ride home. Heck, let's do one better, get 'em a limo ride home. As I remember the limos were cheaper, anyway.
Right now is a good time to be nice to those afflicted with radioactive treatments, 'cuz you might be next.
H0ek
Think you're smart? Prove you've got brains!
I'm guessing you probably don't know a lot about the radation treatment of the thyroid so allow me to explain:
They give you radioactive iodine (I believe it's I-131, but I could be wrong) in a non-tribial dose. This will then accumulate in your thyroid. Now It has a pretty short half life, around 8 days, so it doesn't stay in you in a significant quantity for all that long. Also, since it accumulates in the thyroid, damage to teh rest of the body is limited.
However, notice that I said non-trivial dose. It's enough that you are warned to limit contact with family members for a week, and enough that you can tell if someone has had it done just by pointing a Giger counter at them.
Along the same lines, my grandma has two metal hips, and is gaurenteed to set off any metal decetor. Well she isn't stupid about it, if she knows she's going through one, she notifies the people that she has metal hips, and they can take the appropriate setps to verify her story.
Those are some GOOD radiation detectors...
You know what? I get searched too, and I'm a white guy.
I feel your pain. Personally, I honestly don't care about the searching too much, as long as the security screeners are POLITE and PROFESSIONAL. If they are not, I call bullsh*t. I actually had a security guard accuse me of being some kind of militia/survivalist type (must have been my boots)... he proceeded to search everything... I don't know what his problem was. Whatever it was, even if he got off on it, at least he was polite.
What burns me is when the security guy (with a smile) picks the young, buxom, well-endowed mom with the newborn baby out of the crowd and slowly, ever so sloooowly, wands her down. I'm all for getting your jollies... but for god's sake... get your jollies on your own time! While you're working for US, you'd better protect US. Instead, you have a guy taking advantage of his position so he can "pitch a tent" by wanding down all the voluptuous women.
Airline security at its finest.
So why does the ethnicity of the racist asshole who made this comment matter? Racists exist in all races. Why does this suprise you?
Similar to the issues raised in the disscusion on the spammer who was complaining about too much spam, some people have no empathy. They can't understand that their actions are wrong even if they've gone or are going through the same thing.
Based on upvotes, Ageism is the only "-ism" Slashdotters care about and think isn't SJW
you seem to be under the mistake impression that because it says anonymous coward, its actually anonymous in some way.
Only anonymous from you. nothing is anonymous in the police states of america.
As someone who has an inlaw who is going trhough chemo I though the article was about medical marijuana users being busted again.
Every time one of those bogus terrorist alerts are given instead of sending agents to airports, bridges,etc, the US governments sends 30-40 agents to go after dying people smoking a little reefer so that they dont puke theyre brains out.
This would be repugnant at any time but the timing of some of these raids makes me think that the alerts are just to keep the shee....uh, population on their toes.
Its nice to know that those dangerous felons will be be able to die in pain andthat the country will be safe.
And NYC is the center of this idiocy. From less than 1,000 marijuana arrests per year to almost 100,000 after that hero Guiliani left.
Maybe hospitals could give out cards, and the security folks could phone the hospital for confirmation.
Noo.....as strong as the weakest link remember? this makes the security cumbersome.
Buying the patients a cab is the best idea, it keeps the system flowing.
-- -- --
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I worked in a research lab for a while and in one lab they had built a 'z chamber'. What this means is that its a 'room' with offset entrance in order to block all incoming radation. (that travels in a stright line) The intresting bit here is that its built out of like 6" steel. The steel is made from pre WWII ship hulls. The reason is that after the atmospheric atomic tests any steel made since will pick-up contamination during production. This is particulary effective. I got a demo of this with a gieger counter (we were already 10' underground andyou go a good amount of ticking. In the z chamber ther was virtually none. Thus a good environment for testing radiological samples in small amounts.
Al Quaida got EXACTLY what they wanted on 9/11/2001! Granted, a few thousand died that day..and a couple of buildings went down...but since then lives have been made miserable for MILLIONS...which is exactly what they wanted to to to us! Our freedoms have been curtailed at the airport..like they'll ever try that again..If they did, they'd be thrown out the window by an entire pissed off airplane. The old ideas of hijacking were to comply with the hijackers' demands...but not any more!! Now we have cancer patients being strip searched whose only crime is taking the subway. We have TV cameras looking at us everywhere, connected up to facial reckognization systems. We have more freedoms curtailed since World War II and unlike the ones then, these loss of freedoms are permanent. Yes, the terrorists got exactly what they wanted..a shift in the United States' citizens' right to freedom. The irony is that the REAL terrorists are Bush and Ashcroft and Congress who've perverted this awful event for their own political ends.
I should play the lottery, considering how often I get picked for "random" searches... 100% so far.
"Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!"
I forget the guy, but the NYC cops brought him in, beat him, raped him with a plunger, got thier confession, and sent him on his way. He gets to Rikers Island, goes to Mercy, gets 1 mil, the 5 guys who did it are now rotting.
Do a search on google for it for more info.
"So I was thinking about doing a search for, latex bondage." My Dad
In a post-DMCA world ten years after digital recording devices are proscribed, you get searched because you wear glasses, you have a book on OOP and a laptop in your bag.
Where does the arbitrary nature of a police state -- like that which the US is becoming -- stop?
-Alex
THAT can't be sanitary... It's probably time to clean your monitor.
If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
From chemotherapy patients cleverly recruited by Al Qaida to handle nuclear bombs. Many thanks to the crack transit police, who bravely ignored the fact that these people were actual cancer patients and stip searched them anyway.
Maybe a few street gangs painting obscene graffiti with radium paint will put some perspective on all this crap.
That got me nice and relaxed I must say....
...is to discover the "dirty anal bomb" when its too late. Do you want that on your conscience?
"And like that
McDonald's installed one also, but they had to take it down because their Secret Sauce kept setting it off.
Table-ized A.I.
2) When you have enough radioactive bombers to achieve critical mass, have them all run toward the same spot and explode in a giant nuclear reaction!
.
.
.
Was that in bad taste? No? Dang.
"The reason is that after the atmospheric atomic tests any steel made since will pick-up contamination during production."
What!? Seriously!? Can you back that up with evidence?
I have a sinking feeling that i just got duped into looking like an idiot...
Personally, that's a little bit more of my freedom that I prefer not to give away. I was once made to go through extra screening, and the guy told me that it was because I was carrying too many electronics and batteries in my bag. I don't like the fact that I can't carry on a Swiss Army knife like I used to, but I'll deal with that. But if they waste my time for carrying too many electronic gear, that's going too far.
Remember: when they start taking away freedom, they don't take it away all at once, they chip away at it. Next thing you know, they've chipped away so much of it that there's nothing you can do.
---
Open Source Shirts
Honestly, all this will do is cause an unholy incovenience to cancer patients such that it gets into the media, at which point any self respecting terrorist who can do a bit of research will figure out that he should just avoid the subways.
Duh.
You do that math, that's some senstive equipment they have in the White House.
/=/ 10^19 times fewer, about say a thousand (this is rounded to the nearest power of 10). If he's near the detector for about say 1 minute, that's about a 500th of a halflife so we can expect, what, one of the atoms to decay? Even if the gamma hits the detector (probably another 10,000 to 1 against), it's below the noise threshold, and they certainly can't pick him out of the crowd. Maybe if it were two weeks, or there were a less common isotope with a longer half-life mixed in, I could believe it.
It can't be that sensitive. Suppose they put about 20 millimoles in him (that's a lot, especially just for imaging). About 10^22 atoms (Avogadro, remember him?). After 3*7*3=63 halflives there about 2^63
I hereby place the above post in the public domain.
Mind explaining how you got dual citizenship with the US and UK? Oh, you just made it up?
Yeah, this one.
Is this truly the only Earth I can live on?
Now, granted, Fisk has interviewed Bin Laden 3 or 4 times, but if they think a prominent journalist is going to hijack a plane, they've watched Manchurian Candidate too many times.
Which reminds me, where's that deck of cards?
To paraphrase the GREAT Ben Franklin:
"Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Get your heads out the sand people! If you don't care enough about your freedom to put a stop to this kind of thing then go ahead and email your data to the Information Awareness Office!
American! Knows what that means! And PROUD!
Ya Sure! You Betcha!, The_THOMAS
Now, granted, Fisk has interviewed Bin Laden 3 or 4 times, but if they think a prominent journalist is going to hijack a plane, they've watched Manchurian Candidate too many times.
Which reminds me, where's that deck of cards?
nt
I agree - it's profiling. I read what you said:
"You have a beard, you have glasses, you fit the profile of what someone has said to look for. That fits under the the Supream Courts ruling for racial [emphasis added] profiling."
How do glasses and a beard fit under the Supreme Court rulings on racial profiling?
Profiling itself has not been deemed illegal. Police/federal screeners are free to use any "reasonable" cause in determining who to search. Specific protections are provided against racial profiling in Title IV of the Civil Rights Act. I know of no protections against searches motivated by suspicion of glasses or beards.
I think gender and age profiling in airport security are needed. I fit the general description of whom they should be worried about: male in his early twenties. It will be an inconvenience to me, but it is the most prudent course of action. Otherwise, to achieve the same degree of safety, much more money will have to be spent searching women and the elderly for the sake of appearances.
The profiling in the airports is fundamentally different from the racial profiling in traffic stops.
First, it focuses on a group that has not been the focus of a pattern of discrimination: young males (pretty much regardless of race: Guys my age are much more prone to do stupid things).
Second, the inconvenience is much less.
Third, it is not the result of irrational prejudice, but of a rational allocation of limited resources.
If I can be charged higher insurance rates simply because of my age and gender, why can't it take me five more minutes to get through airport security? Both are inconvenient to me personally, but are rational.
"And yes, if I am getting the "treatment" 80% of the time I fly, I would sue. It takes time out of my day, it makes me want to fly less, it affects my mindset. It makes me grumpy, and that is not a good thing."
Would it really make you feel better if everyone else had to go through the 'treatment' just as often? What, misery loves company?
"After all, if you did not want to sue, the KKK would still be loving the site of the "coloreds" walking out to an outhouse rather then getting the same treatment that every person has a right for."
First, note that the suits brought in the civil rights movement were for much more serious matters than making you grumpy.
Second, what is your argument, that lawsuits hastened the introduction of indoor plumbing for blacks? Sorry, I couldn't resist that one. I assume you are talking about the court cases that established that separate facilities for different races were inherently unequal. Procurring access to decent education falls under what I consider a need to sue. Saving 15 minutes at the airport at the expense of less effective security is what I consider not justifying a lawsuit. It simply should not be that big of a deal.
"Which are you?"
-The one smart enough to not enter the casino.
For example how it was known a week before the first letters... Read about it
What was that part about mothers forced to drink their own breastmilk? That's scary. Do you have links?
The person was being strip-searched because they set off a radiation detector. There was no probable cause to use the radiation detector on them in the first place. Law enforcement can't use the results of one unconstitutional search to justify another one.
Yes, there is something wrong with that when it involves unreasonable searches:
That you do not mind giving up your Constitutional rights against unreasonable searches is irrelevent -- but sad.
I don't have any chemical warfare experience, but a few years ago I did undergo two separate procedures that are known as a "radioactive synovectomy" for my right knee. I've posted the details on a forum for people like me with Psoriatic Arthritis at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PsoriaticArthritis/m essage/23440 but basically the doctor injects a small amount of a radioactive isotope of phosphorus (P32) into the synovial cavity of my knee to destroy the diseased synovial tissue lining the joint. The injection is much, much easier than a surgical synovectomy which can take weeks to recover from I've heard, and is much more expensive as well.
;-), and if I held it near my knee it pinned the needle on the most sensitive scale. I was emitting about 2 milli-Rems per hour of radiation, which decreased rapidly the further away the meter was (inverse square law). I panicked and called the doctor on his cell phone. He assured me he had injected the correct amount, etc., and acted as though he thought I must be crazy or something, so on my next visit to his office I brought my Geiger counter along to prove to him that the radiation was indeed detectable externally. He was still incredulous, and thought I must have a defective meter or something. During my next procedure (which had to be done in the radiology lab of the hospital), as soon as the P32 was injected I asked one of the lab technicians to verify my readings, which he did. My Geiger counter had been right on the money, and even after being assured of the accuracy of the readings, my doctor STILL looked skeptical!
My rheumatologist had told me that the beta radiation wouldn't penetrate the tissue of my knee and that none would be detectable externally, but just to double check I pulled out my Geiger counter after I got home (*everyone* has their own Geiger counter, right?
P32 has a half-life of about two weeks, so after 6 to 8 weeks it's virtually undetectable.
-- Ron
9/11 Eyewitnesses to Explosive WTC Demolition 1 of 2
Easy. Just don't eat for a week or so as to get a terrible face, don't sleep either. Then shave completly your head. Your face will be gaunt and you *will* looks like a cancer patient. Then wait that a few false alarm happen in the media, go in the subway.
When the alarm sound have some faked paper about a cancer treatment by radiation. When the guy come to you jsut show the paper. Chance are that in a year or so after so much false alarm they let you thru after seeing you (now really bad looking and not looking like a terrorist).
Think the scenario is far etched ? Think again. Human can also be pavlov trained to ignore false alarm if they come too often. That is why setting a detection level in an alarm is a science in itself.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
If the President (and his posse of anti-libertarian war mongers) wants his way, he will get it through the intimidation of both appointed AND elected officials. That includes his cabinet, Congress, the Supreme Court, the Federal District Courts, all those secret courts that we don't get to hear about, and the States. So this is just the beginning - and it will get worse. We will be begging for strip searches in about 2 years because by then the suspicion and paranoia will be so out of control that they will probably zap you with a stream of liquid nitrogen in fear that you might detonate or irradiate or whatever...
Yeah, yeah. Just because it's AC doesn't mean it's a troll. In fact, I wasn't trolling.
The other day, I was talking to my Barber whose friend is Arabic. He gets searched at every airport he goes to, and he finds it offensive. He's born and bred USian, but because of the way he looks he gets treated like a second class citizen. 18 months ago, he didn't have that problem. And it seems to be getting worse for people.
Maybe my point about US activities overseas was off-topic, and wasn't what people wanted to hear - fine, but the Post was modded +1 Insightful for a while - but I still believe that if US citizens don't fight the constant erosion of your rights you will end up in a Police State that claims to be a Democracy (or rather, a Republic. Sounds familiar? P.R.C. anyone?).
So why do I care, when I'm obviously not a US citizen? Because like it or not the US affects the rest of us, and the better your country is the better for the rest of us.
But it was a good story. Just like "Grandma on a roof rack"
You guys are really getting paranoid over there ....
.... radiation detectors in the subways ?
I mean is this for real
And people talk of it as if it was normal ?
Do they think they will get ANY safety from that sort of stupidity ?
Safety is only ever partly attainable, and only by not making making enemies.
The US has a serious reality problem.
"Soon as the news hits that the New York subway system is contaminated with radioactive material, there will be panic, regardless of amount."
Now, maybe they've changed things, but the last time I was in New York, the Subways were open. IE: you could freely pour particulate matter into air vents and other areas that honeycomb the streets under Manhattan. It's nice in winter to get the warm breeze of a passing Subway train, but it also means it's very easy to contaminate. There's no reason a terrorist would go through the gateway, when there are so many other entry methods they can use.
Reactionist, rather than rational, security measures are not secure.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
I thought he said, "The road to recovery is a Iraqi one.
--Gov. Jeb Bush (FL)"
My bad...
The alarms detect more than 6 grams of fat?
The original letter to the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) is online.
This could be a problem for Peter Parker. :)
ummmm. No. 600 mRem mabey.
LD/50 is 300 rem. Average US background dose is 300 mRem.
Whenever some law is passed that abolishes e.g. denying of the holocaust, Americans act vigorously, proclaiming it is a black day in the history of freedom.
However, when a man is deprived from his freedom to walk in a public place whithout being strip-searched every hour, it is called "a small price to pay". The solution presented is to "stop using public transportation".
Is this regarded a lesser kind of freedom? I reckon european eyes look somewhat differently upon this matter, but I really like to hear some elaboration on this. Clearly, turning into a police state isn't a victory for freedom.
That's interesting.. but what does chemotherapy have to do with radiation treatment?
And for the grandparent post... if you really think gamma radiation is not ionizing, and want to go telling the world that, go hang out with some gamma emitters for a while first, THEN come tell us how it passes harmlessly through things.
Alpha & Beta radiation, outside the body, cause radiation damage primarily in the skin. The higher the energy, the further they penetrate, of course. Gamma radiation, however, will pass right through you, causing damage to your internal organs along the way.
What is ionizing radiation?
Gamma radiation is VERY ionizing. Why do you think it causes cancer? Why do you think it casues radiation poisoning in high doses? What do you think radiation poisoning is?
I heard that if a nuclear powerstation had the same level of radioactivity as Grand Central Station in NYC then it would be shut down.
GC is built from granite, granite is radioactive, it even releases radium which, being a gas, can be breathed in - nice!
Sorry folks , but this isnt Chemotherapy or Bracytherapy ... brachytherapy is irradiation with
sealed sources which are inside the body .
Best name for this is Nuclear Medicine Therapy. ... by the way , I am a Radiation Therapist and
a Nuclear Medicine Technologist
Could also be P32 , for managment of bone cancer pain ...
But then again , since P32 is a pure beta emitter ,
it might not have been picked up
Don't have numbers.. but one of those radium watches was relatively safe to wear.
It was mostly the painters who got sick, mainly from licking the damn brushes to get a finer point.
There was some concern that if you put the watch with the dial facing your body in teh same pocket every day for years, you might develop skin cancer in that spot...
Thankfully, now we have tritium watches.. much safer.
I mean, a few people who're dying of cancer anyway getting strip searched on a weekly basis is a small price to pay for the safety of the majority...
Right?
Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
I was on my way to the Carribean from Vancouver, and had a stop in Miami. I had 2 laptops in my bag.
So.. the bag goes through the xray machine, and the lady asks me to take out my laptop and turn it on.
Interesting, I thought, she only thinks I have one.
So I pull out the old vaio and fire it up, as soon as the startup screen comes on, she says thank you. I put it back, and start walking.
Somewhat nervously...as I'm convinced some guy with a gun is going to bash me in the back of the head any second for trying to sneak a second laptop in... but nope. Nobody noticed.
Of course, only a moron would think that turning it on actually PROVES anything.
I recall another US airport where I skipped the laptop check all together.. they were asking everyone to open up bags and turn on laptops and whatnot, and they just skipped me altogether.
Fear me, the invisible traveler.
"It can't be that sensitive. Suppose they put about 20 millimoles in him (that's a lot, especially just for imaging). About 10^22 atoms (Avogadro, remember him?). After 3*7*3=63 halflives there about 2^63 /=/ 10^19 times fewer, about say a thousand (this is rounded to the nearest power of 10). If he's near the detector for about say 1 minute, that's about a 500th of a halflife so we can expect, what, one of the atoms to decay?"
Could be a lot more than that. While the desired isotope used for medical purposes had a half-life of eight hours, I can think of two possibilities that would explain the detection. If the half life is 8 hours, it had to be generated just before use (with a reactor, accelerator, or by chemical purification of an intermediate decay product from an isotope of a different element). Could there be some side reactions/impurities that generated small amounts of other isotopes with longer half lives?
Another is that the decay path doesn't stop after one step -- nuclei resulting from the initial decay could also be radioactive.
The guy is partly right and partly wrong. Steel is made of iron and carbon. Radioactive iron is rare in the environment, but radioactive carbon (Carbon-14) is not as rare. About one out of a trillion carbon atoms in the atomosphere is Carbon-14 (mostly produced in the upper atmosphere by cosmic rays). The decay of the C-14 produces a small but detectable level of radiation. The C-14 in your body is responsible for a significant part of your annual radiation dose.
As we have been burning fossil fuels for a while, we have tended to reduce the concentration of C-14 in the natural environment. But when we did open-air testing of atomic weapons, that tended to increase the amount of C-14 available.
I'm not sure how large these increases or decreases are... I would guess they are on the order of a few percent. I do seem to recall that they must be taken into account when doing radiocarbon dating, but by its nature that is a very sensitive measurement of radioactivity.
In any case, if you want to limit your exposure to radioactivity, stay away from high altitudes (Denver, Mexico City, jet aircraft, etc.) and granite. These natural sources of radioactivity are much larger than anything manmade radioactivity you will come in contact with, unless you are a radiation worker, or if there is a major accident or a nuclear war.
I figure it in reverse: 63 half-lives. Suppose you have at least one decay per hour at the end of the three weeks. Then at the beginning, you had at least 9e18 decays per hour = 10^8 Ci. As you say, clearly implausible.
I agree with you and Guppy: either there is some byproduct of production mixed in, or there is a daughter isotope with a significant level of activity.
Im sure i can find it, I just have to talk to the scientists. the bigger problem is who watches a /. message moard after a week goes by?:)
Could you not say "I call BS!". That sounds really gay and annoying.
Chemotheropy is the use of CHEMICALS to treat cancer. Radiation is something different.
The Farewell Tour II
Chemotherapy attempts to mess with very active cells. i.e. the target is cells that are multiplying and growing rapidly. The idea is that since cancer is uncontrolled growth, a poison that interferes with actively propagating cells will hopefully effect the cancer cells. Other rapidly propagating cells are also effected, i.e. hair folicles and the lining of the digestive tract. This is why chemotherapy patients often experience significant hair loss during treatment.
They need not be injected. Iodine is easily absorbed. Maybe you took iodine tablets durring Chernobyl(sp?)? Some of the contrast agents used for radiology are designed to be unabsorbable by incorporating specific structures that cannot be absorbed by the intenstine.
Generally speaking, injections are no more specific than oral medications since the medication ends up in the blood anyway. (There are however some treatments where a radioactive solid is physically placed next to tumor and does not circulate) Injections are used when there is no known way to protect the medication from being destroyed by the stomach acid or when the medicine is too expensive for oral dosing.
no.
All round trip. All booked well in advance. Beard is neatly trimmed, hair is short and combed, prescription medicine is in my name, car stereo should have been questioned at the security entrance after going through the X-ray (not at the gate), I wear clean clothes, and nothing to suggest that I am a member of any small minority faction...
These trips were from SMALL airports to SMALL airports. Connecting flights were at large airports but generally at the large airports is where the 20% of skipping came in.
Toledo -> Pittsburgh -> Scranton
Minneapolis -> Philadelphia -> Scranton
Dayton -> Charolette -> Savannah
Abner Louima
I think it's a good idea to have these monitoring stations, for peace of mind. I think they should be installed in the EU as well (they already have roadside monitors telling you how much car fumes are in the air). I'm not so worried about terrorist attack. I think it's far more dangerous the huge amounts of radioactive material held in hostipals and in univeristies right in the middle of city, not to mention naturally occuring radioactivity in places that have a granite bedrock. You can get a buildup of radeon gas inside peoples houses. People don't tend to think of these sources of radioactivity to be dangerous, even though they are just as deadly
Oh, wait, that was Reno/Clinton.
Vile. Enough to make me miss goatse.cx
Eh? My ex-girlfriend had this as well. She was born in the US (thus her US citizenship) and when she was in London for a summer, she applied for and received a British passport (and I presume status as a British national) because her father was a British citizen. So it's definitely possible... and if your other parent was born in Colombia, you could probably get Colombian citizenship as well (if you wanted it..)
Well, not exactly. By the time it gets out of the septic tank it won't be there. The iodine isotope used decays away quickly and is then stable, that's why it gives an effective short term dose and is useful.
At the landfill, you want the detectors set low so that you can stop the line before said Americium Smoke detector and other stuff goes into the pile or worse, and incenerator. It's nice to sort your waste and deal with things the way they should be dealt with. A big heaping hunk of cat poop that took a one night ride to the dump might be hotter than you imagine.
Fucking brilliant.
Oh my eyes and screen, such blinding language is burning the phosphor off my CRT. Make it stop!
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
This patient was also described in a recent issue of the Journal of the AMA. A very good suggestion by a physician there was to give the patient a note to carry with him that has a 24 hour contact number so his physician can verify the radiation treatment. I think as this issue becomes more public, the hastle will decline.
Also, just a point of terminology, this is radioisotope therapy, not chemotherapy.
-The Doc
I will if you post it as a reply to my comment, I have messages turned on.
This is an example of an error in numerical reasoning called the base rate fallacy.
.999). If we test 1000 people, 5% of the 999 (about 50 people) will be false positives.
The base rate fallacy is trying to interpret the results of a test without considering how common the thing being tested for is in the population being sampled.
For example, suppose there is a medical test for a disease that has a five percent false positive rate. I then grab somebody off the street and administer the test, and he turns out positive. How certain are we that he has the disease? 95%? No, we cannot say without knowing the probability that any individual pulled off the street has the disease.
Suppose one person in a thosuand has the disease. There are two ways we can get positive results from the test. On the one hand he may actually have the disease (p = 0.001). If we sample 1000 people, one person will test positive for this reason. On the other hand he may not have the disease (p =
So, of the 51 positives we'd expect to get, only one person legitimately has the disease. Instead of there being a 95% probability of the disease, there is actually only a 2% probability that a positive test indicates anything at all when applied to a random population. In order to apply the test usefully, I need some independen reason to suspect the person has the disease.
Even a slight reason for suspicion can alter the interpretation dramatically. For example, suppose I'm about 10% certain a person has the disease. If I tested 1000 people who met this criteria, 100 would test positive because they had the disease, 50. So if I'm 10% certain, then a positive test should make me 66% certain. If I'm 50% certain. then a positive test should make me about 90% certain.
A lot of public security measures suffer from the base rate problem. For example random drug testing doesn't tell you with much certainty that a person is doing drugs -- you really ought to test only peple you have independent reason to believe are using drugs. The only time widespread screening makes sense is if the base rate of the thing being tested is very high relative to the false positive probability.
This cancer patient situation is essentially similar. If we have reason to suspect that somebody is a terrorist, if he sets of radioactivity alarms it is very suspicious. If we have no such reason, then whether or not it is suspicious depends on the base rate of nuclear terrorism in the community.
Now it so happens that the false positive rate for this test is rather small: very few people are walking around radioactive for innocent reasons. ON the other hand, the rate of atomic terrorism in the general population is even smaller by several orders of magnitude.
This means that this particular alarm essentially tells us nothing about the people who set it off. It is probably not significantly better than a policy of randomly strip searching people.
However, this is not the only way to look at the problem. Suppose we knew for a fact that there was going to be a suicide dirty bomber somewhere in the city. Screening people in the subway might effectively prevent it from happening in the subway, either by deterring the bomber, or by catching hime, at the price of also catching hundreds of innocent people.
I think the take home message of this is that we should not use such systems on a routine basis; in cases where we have good reason to do so, we should remember that while if there is a terrorist he'll be culled out by the system, any particular individual culled by the system is not significantly more likely to be guilty than any randomly selected person.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Maybe he got bored and started mixing barium with his Bacardi? Throw in a little PCP on top of that and yeah, I can see him only wanting to take it every six months.
It'd be interesting to see if Mr. Storyteller up there has any rebuttal for this, I'm curious to see what doctor would prescribe drinking radioactive juice every six months as a cure for anything.
block all incoming radation. (that travels in a stright line)
Light?!?
mp3: l33t term for empty.
How much distance is between wrongly accusing someone of lying and lying yourself? Always challenge facts but unsubstantiated accusations of deliberate falsehood may be a greater enemy of truth than a lie itself.
of course you are right. But this is slashdot, it's like a game, you know?
While the subway/airport detectors do look for bombs, that is not their main goal. They are looking for the bomb makers.
Making nuclear weapons not in expensive laboratories with government regulations, one might be exposed to a high dose of radiation. So, if someone is walking around with a high level of radiation, he should be questioned. Hey, it is never nice to be searched, and sometimes it sucks, but it needs to be done. If people set it off, they need to explain how and why. I'm sure that the police never thought about the radiation therapy angle. Once they understand it, and work with hospitals, it will be smoothed out. But you have to catch the bomb makers. No reason that the general public would set off radiation detectors.
-A
IS he related to the Great Gazoo?
God!I love the flintstones...
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
Stop whining. I have two prosthetic legs and a silver star to go along with them - not exactly my idea of a fair trade (but the medal is rather pretty blah, blah blah). I set off metal detectors from ten feet away (okay... maybe five feet). I travel for business at least one week out of every month. I'm white, 6'3", 190lbs, with a military haircut and I get searched EVERY time I fly, even if I wear shorts so everyone can see my titanium "Lt Dan magic legs". I have never complained about it. I never will.
People need to realize that freedom isn't free. If all it is costing you is a few minutes of your time while a security guard or soldier looks in your bag, I say "DEAL WITH IT."
My mother died in 1985 of cancer. During her treatment, she had areas on her back marked for the radiation she was to receive. Very painful way to treat cancer, burning it out with radiation. Most people in this shape don't get out of the house much, take subway rides, etc. Too bad these cancer patients were the cause of the radiation alarms going off. That just shows you how powerful the cancer burning rays were, that these people would be radioactive enought to set off the alarms. This kind of treatment is done in hopes that it will cure the cancer, and return them to a normal life. In my mother's case, it didn't, and only added to the pain and suffering that she had to live with until she died. Looking back, I remember her telling me that she worked in a tobacco smoke filled office, for many years, as her co-workers smoked constantly, all day long. Maybe that's what caused the cancer, no one knows.
Talk about targeting the wrong group! At the reunion 70 and 80 year olds talked about their experiences in airports with hip pins, skull plates, and shrapnel in their body from the war!
My diabetic mother, wheelchair bound, was hand searched. They even went as far as patting down here swollen bare ankles. Like she had a fat body suit to conceal something!
I learned my lesson from this experience. Read on... Regarding metal detectors.
Previously, it was three strikes, you're out. That is: Walk thru once, set it off. Empty your pockets and try again. Strike two if you didn't pass. Then you got the individual treatment.
Now they now have a zero tolerance attitude. If you set it off, you get queued up for the body search.
So now, I remove everything from my body (watch, wireframe glasses, QRay braclet) and everything out of my pockets: (wallet, keys, coins, daytimer (with spiral binding)). But I hide all of it from public scrutiny.
I carry an empty trade show canvas/cloth bag. At the security point I fill it and it tie-off. It goes through Xrays with my carry-on while I walk through.
I've seen bulging wallets sitting on the counter while the traveller waits to be frisked.
Put your wallet in a carry-on or something but never leave it in plain view on the Xray conveyor belt. You may be detained up to 25 minutes waiting to be searched. And they will not let you touch anything that went through xrays while you wait.
"Locks keep an honest person honest" --Unknown
A moderator with a pea sized brain took the bait (it was just a test! everyone else on slashdot noticed it but you...).
If you had passed grade 10 physics you would have known that smoke/fire detectors are radioactive.
About 15 years ago I did radiation/weapons effects testing for military electronics. We worked with all the interesting stuff, but especially cobalt-60 which is a gamma source. Our back of the envelope dose-rate estimates were that if our Co-60 source ever "broke open" we could trivially deliver enough radiation to be instantly lethal to 10 people every single second . Yeah, a little intense.
Not surprisingly our labs were outfitted with ambient radiation alarms and rad badges were required for everyone. We had drills. You came to know the sound of The Alarm. You knew that if you heard it when it wasn't a drill, people you knew were either already dead, or dying, or you were already dead or dying. Remember the scene from the movie Fatman and Littleboy when they have the fatal "accident" tickling the tail of the dragon? Yeah, that's the feeling.
One day I was coming back from lunch. We were running a big test sequence and everyone else decided to work through lunchtime and break later to collect some key data. As I was walking in from the parking lot, I heard The Alarm. I instantly get the sick, sinking "Oh Sh*t" feeling. All the doors in are automatically locked down, just in case, when the alarm goes. I wait outside wondering "what went wrong?", "what about everyone else who stayed?" and "am I now a department of one?"
Within a few minutes, radiation safety arrives in suits and masks with geigers on poles and gingerly peels back the locked doors finally reaching the lab door. Everyone inside is white-as-a-sheet, but alive. The radiation is measureable but not super high; no Co-60 breach after all. They let me and others in to help check on our formerly doomed comrades.
The first order of business is to find the source that triggered the alarms. They walk into the lab with the geigers, seeking out the source like bloodhounds. On the scent they push past the hapless and frightened labbies. After a few steps they stop, looking perplexed, as the counts trail off. "It's gone. Must have walk past it!" They turn around and find the scent again. Everyone scatters in the narrow lab. They walk purposely forward again, pushing past Lee, our senior labby. The count ticks away to background. "What? Where'd it go again?" They turn; Lee gets out of the way as they head toward him. The geiger count drops off as they walk past him. "No way! It can't be!" They point the geiger at Lee. It goes crazy. It's Lee! He's hot. Very hot. Hot enough to violate our radioisotope license ambient limits.
Lee finally realizes it was the doctors appointment he had that morning at a local hospital. It was a diagnostic of some sort. The doctor said it was necesary but painless. He signed a release like you always have to. Lee remembers "They told me afterwards to stay away from children for the day. It didn't make a lot of sense, but I don't have kids so I didn't think much about it." Well, it was a radiotracer. The doctor decided he "didn't need to get all nervous about it" and so neglected to tell him he'd be radioactive for while. The only problem was that it was pretty hot. Iodine, Technetium, who know, they never told Lee. The half-life was was only hours so within a day or too he was cold again and was allowed back to work.
It turns out that his dose rate (as a radiation source) was nearly a rem/hour at one point. Our lab alarms were triggered at 20 millirem per hour and our exposure badges were deemed to be "indicating an exposure problem" at 5-10 millirem per month.
We were playing with very serious stuff and we were far more careful with it than these radiologists. My opinion of the medical community's knowledge and safety has been monotonically declined ever since.
This same thing happened to the father of a co-worker a few years ago. My friend's father was a big-wig in the Clinton Administration and held a cabinet-level position for a number of years. One day he was attending a party with the Clinton's and the Secret Service pulled him aside for questioning. They wanted to know why he had radiation coming off his person. It seems that just a few days before he had undergone some testing using barium or some other trace compound. Got the men-in-black a little riled up I guess...
yeah its that funny property of steel to be opaque
I don't want to paint the dark picture of the US of A turning into a police state just yet. But there are more and more means surfacing that infringe on peoples rights. And then there is the predominant opinion of guilty until proven innocent.
I would say the terrorists are winning if we as average citizen have to justify everything we do, just because everyone is a suspect when it comes to terrorism..
Detained until proven innocent.
If I had mod points, I'd mod it up myself... It's well worth the read.
Wait a second here... radiation in the trash system is bad, radiation in the sewer system okay?
Radioiodine decays fairly rapidly and breaks down into a stable material (which is why they use it, actually). It gets diluted in the water system and poses no threat at all.
Not that it's any more dangerous in the trash pile, for that matter. Like I said, it breaks down into stable compounds, and after a few weeks, it's not dangerous (even mildly) anymore. But, as this guy found out, they routinely look for radiation in the trash, so as to separate out stuff like smoke detectors and so forth, and throwing the radioactive poo away can net you that fine.
Non-licensed posession of higher than trace amounts of radioactive substances is illegal and subject to criminal penalties under the NRC (nuclear regulatory commission). Radiation detectors are set to detect levels above the background. Actually even non-detectable (via geiger counter technology) radioisotopes is illegal with out a license. I work in a 'hot' lab, whose sole radioisotope is low amounts of tritium. Although tritiated compounds are extremely weak beta emitters (detectable only in a scintillation counter), and although we do not need to wear radiation badges or even lab coats, we have special marked off areas for use, and the lab is inspected monthly. We must keep track of every micro-curie of radiation we use. We are restricted by our license to extremely small amounts of material. To access the material we have to unlock the lab, unlock the cold room, unlock a wall case, and unlock the storage box. There are 4 keys 4 on separate keychains. We take radiation regs more seriously than chemical safety or animal welfare because in addition to losing our license to buy, store, and use tritium, we can go to jail if any of it walks away from the lab. (Note: we don't use pure tritium. The tritium is incorporated into thymidine, a nucleotide involved in DNA synthesis. It is impossible to regenerate pure tritium from this material - in case you are wondering if it could be used in a weapon).
Whereas residual radioactivity from cancer treatment, nuclear medicine, or radiological procedures may be released from a patient after they are released from the hospital, one never knows if he or she is actually carrying a radioisotope, since all we have to go on is a geiger counter.
Don't try to strip-search Dr. Bruce Banner or he might get angry! .....
and when HE gets angry
.
(David Bowman, EVA near HUGE Monolithic Win-PC in orbit around Jupiter) "My God - its full of Malware!"
Rectionary measures like these are expensive and inneffective, more theatrical than functional.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
Umm yeah. So these detectors exist because it's assumed that terrorists would use a dirty bomb UNDERGROUND, and wouldn't shield it properly.
Conversely, your solution assumes that terrorists can't get fake hospital ID's or driver's licenses.
IMHO, these things are about as good as a dead-bolt lock. Only the true morons would be stopped by it.
"I can't give you a brain, so I'll give you a diploma" - The Great Oz (blatently stolen sig)
Actually, by 'carrying', I meant garcia knows not to use air travel for transporting illegal drugs.
To the best of my knowledge, carrying too many electronics in your bag is not illegal. So it isn't a freedom that has been taken away from us. You were allowed through security with your electronics accompanying you, I presume.
I'm glad you were searched so that airport security was confident that none of your electronics were detonators or contained explosives.
... C++ offers even more flexible control over the visibility of member
objects and member functions. Specifically, members may be placed in the
public, private, or protected parts of a class. Members declared in the
public parts are visible to all clients; members declared in the private
parts are fully encapsulated; and members declared in the protected parts
are visible only to the class itself and its subclasses. C++ also supports
the notion of *_______friends*: cooperative classes that are permitted to see each
other's private parts.
-- Grady Booch, "Object Oriented Design with Applications"
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