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Gnome 2.2 Released
heydrick writes "This message confirms that Gnome 2.2 is officially released. And a month ahead of the originally planned six-month release cycle. Check out the Gnome 2.2 Start Page and use a mirror to download."
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And a month ahead of the originally planned six-month release cycle...
it seems that Blizzard could learn a lot from these guys..
xao
xao
http://TheHillforum.hopto.org
But anyway, cudos to gnome team. Can't wait to see this nautilus-cd-burning thing in action - could be something for my dad (who seems to hate gtoaster).
Oh wait.. Gnome for Linux... I thought this was about the heroic struggle to free the garden gnomes from their plight
http://www.freethegnomes.com/
I am the lord of the pun. Dance Knave!
Now i can stop checking the mirrors every 5 mintues.
:)
I lost my time this weekend updating my GNU/Linux Debian system to GNOME 2.0...
Yet again, perfectly in time to be included in the next Red Hat.
GNOME can now show that an application is starting, so you don't feel the need to click a second time. For instance, if the application supports it, the cursor may change to a clock while the application starts if the application supports startup notification. Unlike some past attempts at UNIX startup notification, the new standard is reliable and robust, in keeping with the GNOME philosophy of things that "just work."
Does anyone know whether the KDE equivalent is a past attempt they are talking about?
Save your wrists today - switch to Dvorak
I've always liked KDE, but more recently i've been moving more towards Gnome. I'll have to wait for a debianized copy, but I'll be glad to see what kind of new stuff we have :)
Looks like the Bitstream Vera font family didn't make it in this release. Anyone know an ETA on it?
Eddy.WriteLinux.Com
Thanks to all the developers who have really put in to get this release out the door - it looks unreal!
2 /
For those who have not already, check out the screenshots http://vhost.dulug.duke.edu/~louie/screenshots/2.
Oh yes. Sums up the whole of free software, that does. I like it lots.
I guess I should put something relatively on topic. Oooh, I know, this'll make fellow slashbots happy:
YOU CAN NOW HAVE TRANSPARENT PANELS!
Yes, 'tis true. Transparent panels rock. There are a few minor glitches, not all applets support it yet, but everybody loves transparency.
...sid will have gnome 2.2 and kde 3.1 in the same week.That is a big coincidence :-)
Does the panel support transparencies yet. It doesn't seem to say indicating no, and that's dissapointing.
Is there a way to remove the Trash and Home icons from the desktop yet? I've been able to do this in XP and KDE3 since they came out. If I can't have a totally clear desktop, I'll pass on this release.
dear reader the gnome armageddon has started,
first of all i want to clarify that this text was meant to be a source of information otherwise i wouldn't have spent so much time into writing it. belive me it took me a couple of days writing this text in a foreign language. even if you don't care at all for gnome, you may find some interesting information within this text that you like to read. please try to understand my points even if it's hard sometimes, otherwise you wake up one day and feel the need to switch to a different operating system.
on the following lines i'm trying to give you a little insight of the gnome community. the things that are going on in the back, the information that could be worth talking and thinking about.
many of us like the gnome desktop and some of us were following it since the beginning. gnome is a promising project because it's mostly written in C, easy to use, configurable and therefore fits perfectly into the philosophy of u*nix. only to name some of its advantages.
unfortunately these advantages changed with the recently new released version of gnome. the core development team somehow got the idea of targeting gnome to a complete different direction of users. the so called corporate desktop user. in other words they're targeting people that aren't familiar or experienced with desktop environments. usually business oriented people who are willing to pay money for getting gnome on their computers.
having this new target in mind, the core development team mostly under contract by companies like redhat, ximian and sun decided to simplify the desktop as much as even possible by removing all its flexibility in favor of an easy clean simple interface to not confuse their new possible customers. so far the idea of a clean easy to use desktop is honourable.
some of the new ideas, features and implementations such as gconf, an evil windows registry like system, new ordering of buttons and dialogs, the removal of 90%-95% of all visible preferences from the control center and applications, the new direction that gnome leads and the attitude of the core development team made a lot of users really unhappy. these are only a couple of examples and the list can easily be expanded but for now this is enough. now let me try to get deeper into these aspects.
you may imagine that users got really frustrated because their beloved gnome desktop matured into something they didn't want. during the time, the frustration of a not less amount of people increased. more, more and more emails arrived on the gnome mailinglists where users tried to explain their concerns, frustrations and the leading target of GNOME.
but the core development team of gnome don't give a damn about what their users are thinking or wanting and most of the time they come up with their standard purl. the reply they give is mostly the same. users should either go and 'file a bug' at bugzilla or the user mails are being turned so far that at the end they sound like being trolls or the user feedback is simply not wanted. whatever happens the answers aren't really satisfying for the user. even constructive feedback isn't appreciated.
if you gonna think about this for a minute then things gonna harden that they are directing into the commercial area. the core development team actually don't care for the complaining home user. it's more important for them to reach the customers with the cash. it seems that this has been told to them by the company leaders. everything about gnome has been decided already, a way back or direct communication isn't possible. don't get trapped by sentences like 'we listen to our users'. they listen to you - yes, to make funny silly jokes about you afterwards.
i thought that everything was build up on friendship, build on programming for fun, build on understanding each other. but the reality looks like it's all for the big money. the cash is what matters everything else is a lie and a dream. time for people to wake up.
not long ago they threw one of the most important long year core developer martin baulig out of team. a guy who worked really hard on getting gnome into the right direction. a nice friendly person who put all his time into gnome. but narrow minded gnome elites such as havoc pennington were responsible that he left the gnome project. the trouble and the pressure that was put on him was to much.
with the new gnome desktop a lot of user interface changes happened such as button reordering. needless to say that this confuse people who are used to the 'right' button ordering for ages. even our fellow linux guru alan cox wasn't thrilled about this idea. but the gnome elites such as havoc pennington, seth nickell, calum benson and dave bordoley knew it better. why following the road of any other desktop that exists ? why not doing something that don't confuse their users and still stay usable ? well it seems to be too easy. gnome needs to be different than anything else so they changed the button order which was one of the reasons that users became unhappy. they said that there was a hard fight about this and the decision was made to change the buttons. but i belive they simply copied the behaviour of macos because most of the gnome developers use a macintosh as either laptop or desktop. sad that they forgot to keep in mind that users tend to mix applications and that this will lead into weird button searching and clicking.
but as if this wasn't enough the same people decided that the new gnome human interface guides were the ultima non plus ultra in human interface guides. the announcement contained informations that the kde usability people got initiated into it. unfortunately the kde people heard about it the first time when seth nickell went to the kde mailinglist which happened after the announcement. you can imagine that they got highly pissed off about this attitude. you can read more on this link. to summarize it, the kde people clarified that gnome should care for their own business.
the problem that came with the new interface guides was, that every little gnome hacker started to become an user interface expert over night. a lot of gnome programs that we like to use matured into a disaster over night. hackers that never programmed correctly for their life started to blindly follow the hype of simplification. for an example look what happened to galeon's interface (pay attention for the last paragraph). even philip langdale a long year galeon hacker got highly indignant by the target that gnome leads and wrote this email to the galeon mailinglist.
here another reason why users became angry. the elite assumes, that the user knows nothing about their system. you find a couple of heavily insulting mails on their mailing lists containing sentences like the quoted ones.
- "the user don't know what a window manager is"
- "the user don't know what themes are"
- "the user don't know what a homedir is"
- "the user can't compile a kernel"
- "the user don't want to customize their desktop"
- "the user shouldn't see preferences which purpose they don't know"
you may imagine that a lot of people are being offended by such lines because it's exactly these gnome users who are meant by these phrases. to read more such lines on the gnome mailinglists, simply click on this link and grep in their archives. be said that most of these sentences are coming from havoc pennington.such evil practices shouldn't be tolerated by the users and need to be fighted. u*nix users aren't stupid people. who actually gave havoc pennington the rights to decide what the user wants and what not ? various users told him that people who use a u*nix like system are well aware of their capabilities dealing with such a complex system. there's a reason why people are switching from alternative operating systems. they want to learn, they want to use the full power of the system, they want to change everything they like.
to top all this, look at the future plans of nautilus. the current maintainers got the idea of changing the whole nautilus concepts into an object oriented user interface design. you may be highly interested in reading the exact words of alex larsson's vision for nautilus' future direction by clicking on this link.
to summarize it, it's assumed that the user don't need to deal with his homedir or his whole filesystem because it may confuse him or because he don't understand it. the new concepts of nautilus should be that the user deal with symbols in the nautilus view. e.g. you get a cdrom symbol and by clicking on it you see the directory of your cdrom, you get a photo symbol and by clicking on it you get a list of all your pr0n pictures, you get a music symbol and by clicking on it you get a list of all your mp3's. you don't know where all these files are located because you don't deal with the bottom layer of your homedir or filesystem anymore as mentioned earlier.
the question is why are people that know nothing about their users, that know nothing about correct user interface design destroying gnome ? the users don't deserve all this specially those that backed gnome for all the years. even sun threw a bunch of so called user interface experts together and have them work on gnome. don't forget that sun are the creators of the common desktop environment. we don't need another cde clone named gnome. even havoc pennington author of the good user interfaces text isn't able to get his own written software following his rules.
not long ago there was an report about the 'two captains of nautilus' where the reporter (uraeus a gnome contributor himself) reported alexander larsson and david camp. you may imagine that such a report can't be taken serious because it's done by their own people. we here have a saying that sounds like this 'one crow doesn't hack the eye of another crow out'. now you can click on this link and read more. it may be interesting to read the replies from various users all over the globe of what they think about gnome and nautilus in general (please pay attention to the listed ip's there). another nice and informative reading can be found by clicking on this link.
the fileselector problem was a long discussed issue in the gnome community. finally they came to an solution for this and have decided to go for this ugly fileselector instead going for this one which was developed by a free volunteer for a long time and in general looks and behaves better.
most users have no problems with the idea of keeping things simple and clean. removing some not needed preferences was indeed a good idea but it doesn't stop. people started to remove everything from their apps. you're forced to use dubious programs like gconf-editor which basically works like the windows registry editor, to tweak uncommented preferences. i don't think that this is an advantage. even the possibility to tweak preferences with an editor was taken away with that ugly implementation of gconf. all your preferences are stored in a directory tree with an unknown amount of *.xml files. even if you delete programs their keys are still remaining orphaned in these trees and finding them is like playing trivia. at the end it's worth a discussion if a system driven by a single home user needs such a registry like system. we didn't need such a system for over 30 years but the gnome development team got the idea copying one of the most retarded systems from windows to u*nix. not to mention that the copy is more retarded than the original.
it's a shame to see how such a nice desktop got thrown into the trash by such people. but there is a lot more behind the scenes that i don't know about. everything around gnome is a big marketing strategy. poor people are working the hell out of gnome for nothing and companies such as those mentioned above are getting the big cash. for sure you could say - go and fork gnome - but seriously how can you go and fork gnome ? such a big project which needs a bunch of people to keep the code alive and compatible. well you know it's all about open source the code is signed under the gnu/gpl or gnu/lgpl, you can't own it. even the companies are aware of this. but if you can't own the code - go and hire their developers. you can direct them like puppets in any direction that you - as company - like. exactly this is happening with gnome.
well you could easily come up and tell me to simply not use gnome and let them do whatever they like. well, you are right with that but things are more complicated nowadays. gnome is influencing a lot of third party projects such as xfree86 which recently added a lot of gnome components into their cvs repository. please know that with the next coming xfree86 version you get a lot of gnome components without even knowing it. code like, gnome-xml, pkgconfig, fontconfig, xcursor and xft2 were mainly written by people who're heavily involved into gnome development. also the gimp is maturing more and more into getting the look and feel of a native gnome application. the cvs version of the gimp has a lot of gnome pixmaps inside and they are heavily working on integrate the gimp into gnome. if not today but the direction is sure and i fear the day this gonna happen.
it's ok that these things exist and it's ok to see xfree86 and the gimp are beeing hacked on. but please think about the people that don't like or use gnome. what about them ? why force them to have gnome components installed on their systems ? why can't gnome go the same way that kde went e.g. doing their own stuff without infecting other projects like aids. seeing more and more libraries and applications that were in no way related to gnome jumping on the pkgconfig boat which's really not needed. look what will happen to solaris, the world famous operating system on u*nix used by big companies and long years experts. they really plan to replace cde with gnome. i know that cde wasn't the best invention of desktops but it rarely crashed and it fits far better into the philosophy of xfree86 with their configuration system than gnome. you know the good old way having your settings defined with .xdefaults and all nice default
configurations are going into /etc/x11/app-defaults/ and so on.
understandable that the good old way may be blocking the future of
applications for multiusersystems - but why must it have to be a
windows registry like system that replaces future configuration ?
well to come to an end i personally don't like many of this stuff. i can't stand the button reordering, i don't like the gconf system and even more i don't like the commercial outsourcing of gnome and the bad influence that gnome has on other applications. the bad attitude of some gnome developers is another story since we are all different reacting humans. luckily there are people sharing some of my thoughts otherwise i wouldn't be able to proof my text with so many links. even amongst the gnome developers there are silent voices of people that hate many of these decisions and silently use something else. right now if you checkout the gnome cvs repository every day you find out that the whole gnome development seemed to came to an halt. the contributions to their cvs are poor. while projects such as kde are reaching easily 10-20k commits per month - gnome is getting around 1-2k per month on it's best times. it really looks like the situation of gnome is unclear so it would be better to have it not influence so much other programs or at the end we deal with an disaster.
now i hope this text was informative for you. i hope that you start to think about the situation and the global direction. the situation of gnome is unclear, their target is groggy too since i can't belive that the users that they are targeting ever heard of u*nix or linux. they plan to get out of the 0.05% desktop niche but this will for sure not happen if they continue their current direction and their bad ugly
Haha.. GREAT codename.
"Where we're going, we don't need roads..."
That is such a poke at Gate's book: "The Road Ahead"
- about me
Why do people insist on comparing version numbers as if they're absolute. WHY?
what do i do ? what do i do ? ,GNOME 2.2. I am really loosing it now. I can't take this anymore, time to switch ....
I hate this anxiety , how i upgrade my RH 8.0 to KDE3.1
for the last time people, I am "frodo from middle eaRTH", not "middle eaST".
> And a month ahead of the originally planned six-month release cycle.
They should have taken this month to implement a better file dialog.
I have only tried Gnome once and that was only because KDE wasn't working at the time. I've used KDE since I started using Linux (and FreeBSD) and it has always worked pretty well for me. I've noticed however that Gnome seems to have a pretty good following and I'm wondering why.
How is it that one careless match can start a forest fire, but it takes a whole box to start a campfire?
here
I tend to think that Sun Microsystems backing gnome is an indication that Gnome does have a nice share.
I'm not trolling here... I am dead serious when I say I am not ~crazy~ enough to try and compile this.
I do not care what anyone says, every time I have assembled the dependency libs and tried to compile this beast, it has been disastrous sixty ways to Sunday.
Even a successful compile takes ~hours~ (see the Garnome stats).
I'll wait until the RPMs come out...
--- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
there is a gnome-vfs addon that supports ssh. its part of gnome-vfs-extras, I think.
The new file selector will be implemented in GTK 2.4
"I keep looking in the want-ads under 'revolutionary' but there don't seem to be any listings.. "
That Face of GNOME boy is a total ride ;)
Good grief. Software being released a month ahead of schedule!? This mustn't be allowed to happen! If my manager hears of this, he'll start thinking we should try it too.
(Spudley Strikes Again!)
What is your problem Timothy? Did you root my box or something and now think it is funny to post links on /. to things I'm 50% thru downloading?
;P
First the Animatrix thing and now this crap.
One of these days I'm going to bump into you at a convention or something, and beat the shi^H^H^H cookies out of you.
Good. I like the improved multimedia, theme support, cd-burning, panel improvements and the such.
My question is what is the one thing that you wanted to see in Gnome 2.2 that did not get in?
What is your Gnome 2.4 wishlist?
BTW, yes everyone wants a better gtk fileselector and browsing of archive files. Lets get all out-of-the-box on this.
ACK
Where we're going, we don't need roads ... in circles ?
Gnome 2.0 Officially Available For Solaris
Norris/Palin 2012
Fact: We deserve leaders who can kick your ass and field dress your carcass.
the one really cool feature from gnome 1.0 which was removed is still not here:
detachable menus, absolutely loved that in Galeon I could pull off a menu of bookmarks, when I was trying to hunt through a lot of them. Anyone know why it was removed, and/or when/if it's going to come back?
Here, from Havoc
Here, from jdub
There is a list for GTK2.4 on the website, but unfortunately I think GTK2.4 won't be ready in time for GNOME2.4, so 2.4 will still be based on GTK2.2
http://www.gnome.org/start/2.0/foot.png
"Fighting terrorists with millitary might is like killing a mosquitor on your Dad's forehead with a rifle."
Does anybody know what's going on between Gnome and Enlightenment? It seems like Gnome is developing it's own window-manager-which-pretends-its-not-a-window-man ager (Metacity); meanwhile, Enlightenment is developing it's own desktop shell... kind of like two ships passing each other in the dark...
I'm going to hate the day when I'm forced to make a choice between Gnome and Enlightenment 0.17... I'll miss those footprints...
The release notes suggest that GNOME won't get a usable file selector dialog for a year; is that really correct?
I know what would be handy for me w.r.t. gnucash is a "MS Money User's Transition Guide" or some such. I've tried 1.4, 1.6, and the beta for 1.8, but I just cannot make a dent in doing much with gnucash. I invariably get frustrated and delete the whole thing. (Maybe I'm spoiled somewhat; I popped in MS Money on the windows box and was running multiple accounts, multiple banks, loans, credit cards -- the whole shebang -- in half an hour.) Can someone post anything notable that'd help user's of other finance programs to switch over?
Ok how abour a release of GnuCASH that someone other than the developers can compile? Oh wait let's download 90,000,000 libs.
Until they release a STATICALLY LINKED binary I shy away everyone from it... It's too damned hard to get compiled by a seasoned Linux vetran let alone the 15 Linux newbies in my LUG.
GnuCASH is early alpha software and will be reccomended by myself to everyone to be avoided until it is stable enough to compile on a standard distribution. Too many linux apps that have HUGE potential are crippled because of this. You want to use bleeding edge libs? Great! offer a static binary to download. It's not that hard.... Open office and mozilla do it.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
The key is:
Note that this will only effect gnome2 apps (I think). If your gnome1 apps have tearoff turned off you have to use the old gnome-cc to enable. Also, don't be afraid of gconf-editor, a good number of the so called "missing features" are still there!
One of the things I've noticed about the default GNOME 2.x setup on my system (courtesy of Gentoo) is that it's very minimalist. Usually only one app per function and clean, simple menus with descriptive options. (In fairness, I do wish that a few more apps were included by default. Like an integrated mail handler and graphics editor.)
It occurred to me recently, when I tried KDE 3.1, that the way it seems so overdone has always turned me off from KDE. The KDE panel along the bottom is usually crowded with icons. The KDE menus are overflowing with application after application. Perhaps some of this is unneeded crap included by the packager, but I'm willing to be there are fewer menu items and redundant apps in a stock compile of a GNOME desktop than a KDE desktop.
Yes, I know I can clean up KDE until it's minimalist, but I shouldn't have to. I like starting with a clean sandbox and building my castle, thanks. I'd rather not have to tear someone else's castle down first.
Anyway, it has occurred to me that this cleanliness could be awfully appealing to a commercial company looking for a basic environment upon which to build a branded, heavily customized one. Instead of feeling like you have to rip the guts out to find a clean starting place or having to go app-by-app and menu-by-menu and replace or refine what's already there, you can start with a skeleton and build up from there.
Not that anyone's looking to do that, necessarily, but with Sun looking to use GNOME as their standard desktop, I'd like to know how easy it was to start from the baseline and build up.
Curmudgeon Gamer: Not happy
Have you ever tried to compile GNOME on Solaris? Trust me, it's not just a ./configure, make && make install. Last time I tried (~3 months ago) it took hours and hours of tedious dependency resolving and source hacking just to get it to compile cleanly, let alone work. Somethings just wouldn't compile, or would compile then seg fault when run. It's been a significant porting effort (and QA effort) that Sun has undertaken and congratulations to them for getting this far. I for one am hugely grateful.
Now if only we had mousewheel support...
# init 5
Connection closed.
Oh...
I really have to congratulate the GNOME team. I'm one of those desktop skeptics who has formerly been sorely unimpressed by the state of GNOME and KDE, but both have been forging ahead. As I've become more involved with GNOME development, I've come to recognise the relationship between the two projects: they do compete but the beautiful thing is that they cover two separate niches. Namely, KDE forges ahead with the latest features (Xft, KHTML) and has a nippier release schedule, while GNOME tends to integrate more external technologies and tends to adopt features when they're more mature.
GNOME 2.2 has caught up not just visually, but also feature-wise with nifty features like the SSH and SMB backends, but has also been getting rid of visual artefacs leftover from the era of CDE and Motif -- sometimes, a flat look is more appropriate than 3D buttons, for example. I think the 2.2 release puts GNOME back in the game in a big way.
Didn't stallman, although having used GNOME (I remember him bitching that he couldn't print a document from his desktop in gmc), say that he went back to a desktop without X at all?
Remember?
zWhat would an EWOULDBLOCK block, if an EWOULDBLOCK could block would? -- me
When's the last time that you tried it? I sadly downloaded th 1.7.x beta on the 1/28/2003. With redhat 8 there were only two rpms that I had to install and they were both -devel ones to boot. After that, I just did a rpmbuild --rebuild gnucash.src.rpm and everything built just fine.
No I'll have to go get the official release rather than the "beta" and do the same. I can see your comment being true maybe last year, or with ealier distros....
how much faster is it?
did they fix the really slow nautilus? what speed improvements were made?
Gnome 1.X was much MUCH faster than the 2.0 series. and 2.0 is tolerable when you rip out nautilus.. have they finally fixed nautilus so that it's not the brick dragging the rest of gnome down?
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Why would you su to root to compile soemthing????
Gnome 2.0 Officially Available For Solaris
'init' is the mother or all processes...
Does anyone know how hard it would be to update to Gnome 2.2 from the current Ximian?
This post was generated by a Cadre of Uber Monkeys for Monkey-Man2000 (603495).
I haven't tried 1.8.0, but if it is as stable as 1.6.8(?) I'd rather not.
Hmmm, menu option, oh, where'd gnucash go. Hmm, double click here, hmmm, where'd gnucash go? Well, maybe if I just go the the help menu, hmmm, where'd gnucash go?
Very frustrating....
Norris/Palin 2012
Fact: We deserve leaders who can kick your ass and field dress your carcass.
Wow, that gets funnier every time you say it!
By Friday, I should be literally pissing my pants as I read!
It seems to me that I just read that a new Ximian Gnome is going to be based on Gnome 2.2, but I don't recall where I saw that. Is there any truth to that? Is there a published timeline for such a release? The current Ximian Gnome was great when it came out, but it's starting to feel a little stale, especially after looking at Gnome 2.2 screenshots.
now all we need is 900 messages saying gnome sucks use KDE instead and about another 200 saying gui's suck and real men use bash for everything.
Eugenia of OSNews claims to know more about the GNOME releases than the GNOME release manager himself! Fun for the whole family1
This is exactly the case! I think it would be best if the packagers just shipped a basic setup with the most common applications, and maybe some helper install tool to go along with it all, if you need more applications.
I've always been irritated by the crowded program panels provided by your basic ditro's default setup - I even bet new users are easily overwhelmed by this problem! Sure, I know, maybe you can't expect the users to figure out how to install more applications if they need them? A trade-off perhaps?
Anyway, I've seen clean setups provided by using the Ximian Installer which provides different package categories (including a VERY basic one). Also, I believe if you use Debian, you could skip the 'GNOME desktop' option during tasksel and instead apt-get some fundamental gnome package (dunno which one), which will resolve the rest of the dependencies nicely and leave you with a basic setup.
z
What would an EWOULDBLOCK block, if an EWOULDBLOCK could block would? -- me
In soviet russia, root compiles you!
I just had my sysadmin install it and everytime I try to start it from the dtlogin, I get gnome-session segfaults. Lousy, Sun distribution.
Have you still got the box it came in?
# init 5
Connection closed.
Oh...
I noticed on some screen shots that they've got GVIM with GTK2+ support, and anti-aliased fonts. Anyone know where to get a copy of the code/patch/whatever for that? Is this part of the gnome release? Is this a patch that has yet to be released to the world?
Like the idea of 2.2, and want to know if it works?
Don't want to have to compile a practically infinite number of packages from scratch by downloading each... and... every... one?
Don't want to trash your system by overwriting tons of libraries?
Don't trust your local package management system (or the packagers for that matter) to back out once you upgrade?
Check out Garnome. It's easy to download and install, and best of all, it installs under your home directory by default! They have a good walk-through on the main page. I've found this to be very nice, and a far smoother testing mechansim than anything else out there!
You just download a small BSD-style ports tree, and then kick off a compile (follow the README). It downloads, compiles and installs everything else!
Hope this helps.
Not a very good link. . . the links to the meat of that site are all dead (can't get to the page that actually comares the two, for example).
Also, It was last updated in 1999. Gnome and KDE have both changed a LOT since 1999 - I'd say enough so to make a comparison of them from that era completely unapplicable to the current versions.
I concur (using a shell rather than a manager), though pretty/ugly are matters of preference. from what I've heard KDE's is 'better' functionally. This might be a perception holdover of when Nautilus was slow.
I still remember the first time I loaded up Nautilus at it's first major release and watched in amazement as CPU usage went through the roof, the drive thrashed and a window outline slowly filled in on the screen. Things improved quite a bit during the Gnome 1.x lifetime but moving to Gnome 2 and the new Nautilus is a day and night change. Nautilus on Gnome 2.x is fast, has some really sweet integration features which are only just being exploited now (fontilus springs immediately to mind) and there are bound to be more coming as people get to grips with it.
I still generally use the command line and a few perl scripts for most file manipulation. But just once or twice recently, I've been reaching for that Nautilus window to track stuff down, examine fonts and look for music.
Cheers,
Toby Haynes
Anything I post is strictly my own thoughts and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the opinions of IBM.
Now introducing gnome 2.2.1... fixes the thanks message on the about gnome banner... http://www.gnome.org/start/2.2
;)
"Thanks to our all users and contributors"
anyone have any idea when the RPMs will be out? and where to find them? will red-carpet include them?
nature loves variety::society hates it get your variety at http://www.monkeypantz.net
I posted in here already, so I can't, but this post (AC or not) is bang on the mark.
Very similar to the "your favorite [band|os|whatever] sucks" shirts.
Between this and the new gcc, RedHat will have their hands full redoing all kinds of packages at rawhide...
:)
Don't you love it?
Guess what? I got a fever! And the only prescription.. is more cowbell!
I'm not sure where all the issues of stability are coming from... I've been using it both on my FreeBSD laptop and Gentoo desktop computer. Perhaps you didn't compile all the required libraries? I find it to be really great, although I'll admit that 1.6.8 was a little weak on features. Granted though, I'm only 22 and don't have a lot of financial concerns just yet, so I basically only use it to track credit card charges and balance my check book. If you need something more robust than a spreadsheet to manage your personal finances, I'd recommend checking out GnuCash... -Siniset
Personally, I really wanted to see bug 73074 fixed.
"Any fool can make a rule, and any fool will mind it."
--Henry David Thoreau
From what I hear he uses Emacs.
Ditto on the gentoo, infact gnucash is why I tried gentoo as slack doesn't have a gnucash package and I've spent nearly a week trying to get gnucash working under slack. I didn't even go too wild with optimizations in gentoo, so its not like my compile options obliterated it...
silver ~ % gnucash
gtkhtml-ERROR **: gconf error: Failed to contact configuration server (a likely cause of this is that you have an existing configuration server (gconfd) running, but it isn't reachable from here - if you're logged in from two machines at once, you may need to enable TCP networking for ORBit)
aborting...
Abort
That is my gnucash session and hitting the menu help->manual. If I can't get to even the help menu I'm hosed with gnucash. I've started work on a project for myself to do budgeting and finance with a servlet setup with jakarta and postgresql database. Atleast then I know what is happening. Going through and debugging gnucash and its near infinite different libraries is not my idea of a good time.
Norris/Palin 2012
Fact: We deserve leaders who can kick your ass and field dress your carcass.
apt-get install gnucash
Or, if you insist on compiling it:
apt-get -b source gnucash
To say that gnucash is early alpha is laughable. I've been using it exclusively for over a year and have never lost a single datum. So has my wife, who barely realizes that she's running Linux.
...So you are saying they should change the name to GnuCrash?
"I like to wear big boy pants."
It would have looked even funnier if Sun announced 2.0 the day *after* 2.2 was released.
OTOH, we still use Open Windows, so it's not like we've been racing to embrace this newfangled CDE stuff...
Xix.
"Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
All Gnome developers take note of what the AC has written.
I'm just one of the many Gnome users who has been totally pissed off by Gnome 2. First I discover that gnome-terminal no longer works. You can't complete an X selection with a right click because this always brings up a silly menu. Which is a real problem when you are selecting pages of text. I go to bugzilla, note that this has already been reported, but that nothing is going to be done about it, because 'consistency' demands that right clicks bring up menus. I guess the latest version of gnome-terminal is so consistent that [Tab] moves between tabbed terminals, and bad luck if you want to use filename completion, consistency demands making the terminal unusable, so unusable it shall be! So I'm having to use rxvt again until (if ever) gnome developers start listening to their users and fix their terminal.
Next thing they only allow one window list, and it doesn't have the option of 'close all' for stacked windows ... argh! Then I notice I cannot any longer put menus onto the panel, only useless (because I can't label them) drawers. So no I have to wait till the tool-tip shows till I know what particular action any launcher button will have, and they randomly change positions to boot.
OK, at one level the idea Gnome has is good, cut out the cruft, keep it simple and elegant. Great! What is missing, however, is the option for users to mess it up again, and especially for users who are used to using Gnome in a certain way, to make Gnome work for them again. The insanity of the Gnome project is this: Ignore, no discourge, you existing users, and design your system for a set of users who don't now, and are unlikely ever to, use your system (ie the corporate desktop). There is an underlying assumption at work here, "if we make our system easy enough to use, easier than windows, then the corporate desktopers will come flocking to us." That is like saying "if our web site has content as good or better than msn.com, we will start to get more hits than them;" or "if we make a better VCR standard, people will stop using VHS ..."
Simplicity, in the current Gnome way of thinking, means treat the user as an imbicile, and take away the users options. Eg, the user is never to be allowed to hear the words "window manager," much less be given a way (within the GUI system) to change them! This is a foolish approach. The newcomers to Gnome/Linux are not likely to be the corporate desktop users (though perhaps in eductional/academic and in the not-for-profit sectors some chance of adoption does exist), they are going to be skilled windows users, who want to learn about Linux, and who want more options to configure their desktops than windows gave them, not less!
And what happens when users, real actual Gnome users, complain about the direction Gnome is taking. They get told that this feature they have been using is not something a "regular" user would want, or worse they get told, "I don't care if you don't use Gnome." Gnome guys, wake up, those are the 'regular' users.
Despite my rant, I'm still resisting changing over to KDE, I guess I hope that some people will start listening and fix up the problems. But if all that is happening is that Gnome is working on features like transparent panels, while leaving the gnome-terminal in its present broken state, I'm a fool to hope, and to hold out.
Better to be despised for too anxious apprehensions, than ruined by too confident a security. --Edmund Burke
Don't confuse me with choice.
KFG
Personally - better integration with kde.
Merge of sound systems. The might have to wait until there is a clear winner. esd isn't as good as arts. But arts has features that overlap but alsa is trying to achieve, and also overlaps with the forwarding-X-sound-server thing we heard about a few days ago. Getting that mess all cleared up will be _very_ nice.
Bridge between dcop and the gnome equiv. (Actually I'm not sure it has an equivalent. Bonobo is the equivalent to kpart I thing.. I get confused)
Thats all I can think of..
?????
If you substitute "1.2" for "1.x" and "1.4" for "2.0" in your post, it makes sense. Gnome 1.2 was much faster than 1.4, though 1.4 was tolerable if you used gmc instead of nautilus. You can't really use gmc instead of nautilus with 2.0. However, nautilus is much speedier and stabler in 2.0, and is very usable. The only reason to wish for gmc again when you're using Gnome 2.0 is for gmc's much nicer context menus and archive handling.
Nautilus will, of course, be somewhat faster and more stable in 2.2, but compared to the leap in performance and stability from 1.4 to 2.0, this is definitely just incremental.
They would, indeed, rock - if they were indeed transparent. I thought it was a bit sad that "they" cheated by just grabbing a section of the main window and shading it; i.e., it only looks transparent if you never hide the panel.
apt-get install gnucash
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
I'm sick of how Gnome wants to "shade" windows when I double click on their titlebar. That feature is useful on a Mac running MacOS 9 or below because windows on this OS lack proper maximize and minimize buttons. The only way to get a window out of the way is to shade it or drag it someplace. That feature is of dubious value on systems where it is not needed. Even so I realize that some people might like it and I'm certainly not going to tell them how to run their systems. However wouldn't it be nice to at least have that behavior be configurable?
This points to a much larger issue for me when it comes to Gnome, the fact that both sawfish and metacity the ability to customize the window manager's behavior is severely lacking. Oh sure, you can put a different skin on the windows and all that, but other than that you can't do much of anything.
I'm a command prompt jockey. I don't care one bit about the file managers in either KDE or Gnome because they're useless to me. If I want to manage files I fire up an xterm. I use KDE for the simple reason that with it you can customize the behavior of the window manager. If Gnome would add in similar functionality I'd be just as happy to use it instead. Also, is there a way to set it up so that nautilus doesn't fire up every time you log in? I've not looked for it very hard I'll admit, but it is annoying to have it fire up when I don't use it.
Don't mind me, I'm just ranting.....
Lee
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
Ain't this the sweetest file selector ever?
/.)
I hope they do go with this one!
(As usual I reply to myself... sheesh, I need more friends that read
Many of these new features have the effect of making Gnome appear to be more like M$ XP. My very humble opinion, having had gnome for a very short period of time, is that there are a wide range of features that have been available in commercial products like OSX and XP for some time that Gnome is now slowly adding. Yes, gnome has a lot of attractive features, and reaps the rewards of being open source, but are there any major benefits to a seasoned windows user like myself of using a system that seems only to replicate Windows, not surpass it. For example, the font smoothing technology microsoft calls cleartype has been around for over a decade. Why couldn't it have been included as an option in earlier versions of gnome? Until I see an OS that is truly worth the hassle of spending 2 hours installing, I don't see how Linux can succeed against a beast like Microsoft. A worthy battle, but I don't think linux can win.
real men use zsh :-)
Right now on UNIX/Linux you can choose:
...
- advanced user environment A
- advanced user environment B
- advanced user environment C
- advanced user environment D
and guess what, all the choices eventually grow
to be configurable so that they act like any of
the other choices, or indeed like any hisotrical
OS ever. So useful. What a good way to
spend our time, writing multiple "design your own UI" construction kits.
Maybe it's time for something different.
If people want to work on developing it,
who are you to tell them how to spend their time?
You are free to work on developing your own
"advanced user environment E" if you don't have
enough options in that area yet. Or free to create add-ons or partial replacement apps for any
existing environment. Isn't open source great?
If you want to understand GNOME direction though,
I'd suggest some good books, such as
"User Interface Design for Programmers,"
"The Inmates are Running the Asylum,"
"Designing from Both Sides of the Screen,"
etc.
Technical users are so quick to assume that all software should be written for them, and that despite having zero expertise in interaction design they know exactly how a GUI should be (it should be exactly like the GUI I got used to in 1992, darnit! must... not... learn... new... things...)
The historical situation of 1001 choices, as long as they are all confusing and hard to use, is a good way to keep free software
limited to 0.5% of the users in the world.
It's hypocrisy to brag about choice when
all the choices are the same.
It's not like there's any danger that there won't
be enough hyper-configurable advanced user features and environments available. Somehow,
I have faith that we're safe there. So why
not let just *one* project try something different
without whining about it endlessly.
All that said, I don't even agree with the premise
that geeks only like the hyper configurable environments; OS X is pretty
popular with the geek crowd these days.
As is GNOME 2, for that matter.
In any case, I guess we'll see in a few years
how it all turns out. My prediction is that
there will be lots of environments and add-ons available,
for different target audiences, and everyone
will be happy.
You can tell Nautilus to not draw icons on the desktop. This *appears* to have the effect of making Nautilus not load when Gnome loads. At least, I don't see Nautilus in my process listing, and Gnome does appear to load faster. Now whether you can live w/o desktop icons, that's up to you. Personally, I cannot stand desktop icons so it's great for me.
The preceding comments reflect the author's personal opinion and are public domain, unless explicitly stated otherwise.
Seems Mandrake is out of the loop on this one. And NO, I DO NOT WANT TO BUILD IT FROM THE SOURCE!
Setting his threshold to 5, Sparky eliminated most of the trolls on /.
Yes, but the important question is...
Have they fixed the gnome2 menu customization issues yet?
I notice that not a single screenshot shows a file open dialog. Most likely it is because they are still using the piece of crap dialog they havd in 2.0, which was basiclly the piece of crap dialog they had in 1.2 ported to GTK2. I mean seriously guys, Gnome has been around for how many years? And how many times per day to you open or save a file? Let's put some freaking effort into this thing.
On the off chance that the poster was serious: nobody is stopping you from running MIT X11R6 and twm. Sounds like you'd be a lot happier that way.
News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.
Looks like a great release. I really like the philosophy difference between KDE and Gnome, because it's one way that the two can coexist peacefully, each catering to different kinds of users. It also lends real credence to the notion that competition is good - not just for its own sake, but because each option offers real value. Great work, people.
AFAIK, this was the case also for gnome 1.4 and maybe in gnome 1.2. The funny-looking file names maybe were placed in a different place: try looking in your ~/.gnome* directories.
The main difference between 1.4 and 2.x is IMO the user target: 1.4 was a nice tool to hack a very customised desktop on your PC. With 2.x, they try to reach the standard computer users, hiding away most of the options and implementing the hints of some 'usability studies' they have done with Sun (of which the 'Action' menu is I think a result).
Ciao
----
FB
They could even go further and remove altogether the indipended Application menu, structuring the main menu in a way like this:
I want to/write a document/with abiword
I want to/write a document/with openoffice
I want to/write a document/with openoffice
I want to/ listen to music/with xmms
I want to/listen to music/with whatever
Each application sould register itsel on the proper I want to. And of course there should be a easy way to make a default for each (las used, maybe?).
Ciao
----
FB
does anyone have the build order for all the sorce files? i never quite figuered that one out and the one on the gnome page seems to be badly out of date.
Slackware users: Todd, of http://www.dropline.net announced on the message boards that this would be available this weekend.
If you use Slackware 8.1, and haven't tried Dropline, then I suggest that you give it a shot. It's a simple, ncurses-based installation, that uses wget to download precompiled Slackware Gnome 2.x packages from Sourceforge. I use it at home, and work. And a friend (that used to run Windows) is hooked on it too. It's very well done.
I just compiled the Garnome distribution of 2.2 and I see that Nautilus STILL fails to auto-update its contents. In Konqueror when I run 'touch blah' in a terminal, 'blah' immediately appears. Not so with Nautilus. If it's already open, you need to hit the "Reload" button. Is there a fix for this?
A sentence you'll never see on an Internet discussion board: "You know what? You're right."
Uh, dude, you can use dcop from freaking shell scripts. And I am not joking. That is not C++ specific at all.