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Senator Calls For Copy-Protection Tags
Anonymous Coward writes "C|net has an
article on a new bill being proposed in the Senate that requires all software, music and movies that employ copy-protection schemes must be prominently labeled with consumer warnings, which is being sponsored by Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Oregon."
To those filthy Iraqis who slaughter their own people and blame the USians.
For shame.
I'm proud to have this man as my senator.
Now we will know who to boycott in protest of braindead copy protection schemes. Probably won't matter much to me anyway, since all the music I buy isn't popular enough to be profitable and hence doesn't employ copy protection...
Un-news
I think this is a good idea because it doesn't infringe on the rights of any particular party. The customers have more information to make their decision. Companies have the right to sell whatever product they want, in the form that they choose. The extra information on the box is just a rearrangement of the ink that they would have to put on the box anyway, so it's not expensive to do.
If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
Sounds logical, they should have had copy protection warnings since the beginning. -bb
PRINT "Signature line broken."
GOTO 1
This item has been designed to defeat your Constitutional rights. This item will not allow you to make a back-up.
I think this idea definatley has merit. Adam Thierer seems to think otherwise, "The better alternative to federal mandates on either side of this debate is to instead just encourage a technological free-for-all in the marketplace," Thierer said. "Let the industry do whatever it wants in an attempt to bottle up their content, but also let consumers continue to experiment with and use digital content in creative ways without fears of federal intervention at every turn... There's no reason for Congress to intervene in an attempt to solve each and every intellectual property dispute, as has seemingly becoming the case in recent years."
But I think he seems to be missing part of the beauty of this. The bill wouldn't forbid or require that copy protection be used it would simply require disclosure of them to the consumer so that the consumer can make the choice on their own. Many states have similiar "full disclosure" laws when selling real-estate. I don't see how this would be considered much defferent.
Just my 2 cents.
Registration keys and such I can crack. But I don't even know how to access the security chip inside the new warning label, so how can I crack it! I guess I'll just have to return to being an upstanding citizen again.
"I only speak the truth"
Karma: null(Mostly affected by an unassigned variable)
The warning should say something like "Due to overzealous digital media companies, the enclosed product is broken and may not function in all hardware. Attempting to fix the defect is in violation of the DMCA and may be prosecuted to the fullest extent of applicable law."
Have you been stalked by Seth today?
though DVDs say "No copying" now, this would be a plus. Some sort of nasty-sounding warning would be useful here.
Wow, I'm sure this will get passed into law. Let me count... Umm. 99 old men/women on the dole from the music industry vs. 1 who isn't. 99-1 against == Bill not passed. Yay representive democracy!
WARNING
This Disc contains super-secret measures to reduce your ability to listen to this music. It's probably for your own good, since the music is pretty unoriginal and bland anyway. But, if you still want to listen to it on your PC, MP3 player, DVD player, car CD player, or basically anywhere, you should probably buy a sharpie first.
Do not read this sig.
Protecting our civil liberties once again
And of course, the BSA is against it.
--
For the book says, "We may be through with the past, but the past ain't through with us."
Finally some legislation that makes sense. If companies are going to trample all over my fair-use rights, then I should be able to know before-hand whose products I'm not going to buy. I'm sick of not owning my own property. This is how the free market is supposed to work. Don't outlaw technologies, but make sure the consumer knows what they're buying into.
So, as with the explicit/non-explicit choice ... will we have a copy-protection/non-copy-protection choice? That is what I would want!
KARMA TAG! You're it.
This product contains copy-protection. The Attorney General has determined that copy-protection may be hazardous to your Fair Use. College students especially should not buy or use this product.
IP is just rude.
Is there any torture so subl
Fat Chuck's maintains a list of copy-protected. Be careful!!
what? a senator thinking about his constituents and not his campaign fund? what is this world coming to?!?!?
--Keeping the flame wars alive, one post at a time
...on labeling copy-protected media with a "copy protected" label. I'll be rich!!!
One of the reasons why I have been reluctant to "rip" my extensive CD collection to mp3's on my harddisk as all my friends have done, is that I fear that somehow through this P2P stuff my files will be downloaded off my machine and stolen, so I can't listen to music I legally paid for. My friends claims that you can just download it back off of Kazaa are not confidence inspiring, as I like rare rap music like Eminem which is not likely to be out there (except for the people who steal it from me).
If I could be assured through a simple icon like the Undertaker's Laboratories that my CD was not copyable, I would rip to my harddrive with no fears, and get much more use out of my music because I could share it with my friends via windows file sharing.
I support this bill.
Of course, this means basically every game, CD, or movie that you buy would have yet another "prominent label" on it.
Humor folks,
-- RLJ
to get the average consumer to understand what is going on here. Once enough people realise what is being done to prevent us from making fair use of the content that we have paid for we might get some balance back. I suspect most people who have problems with a copy protected CD on their PC will blame the hardware and Microsoft first. So this is a great idea!
This would solve a lot of problems, like if you're arguing with someone and you wonder why they're being so dense... Now you'll KNOW! They're a MORON! Or they're from Ohio, which is basically the same thing...
It should keep them from breeding and polluting the bloodlines of many an intelligent family tree...
Death to Reefer Addicts.
--
...but will you be able to return the software/music/whatever if it fails to work or even breaks your hardware?
IMO this is a rather more important part of the process, and AFAIK one that stores don't seem very sympathetic to at all.
Moderation Total: -1 Troll, +3 Goat
Wyden, heh.
I really don't mind copy protection schemes (or "technological measures", in DMCA-type lingo). It pisses off consumers, and causes those who use the schemes to lose business. Forcing labelling will accelerate this attitude.
However, if there is no way of bypassing these measures (as the DMCA tries to force), then there is no incentive for publishers to be consumer-friendly. This will continue to cause the erosion of fair-use of media, since eventually the warning label (and the protections) will be on ALL major-label releases. This bill will then be irrelavent.
Look at the tomato! Isn't it sad? He can't dance! Poor tomato!
This is a great idea. Lables like "This package contains..." and "This may not work in computer CD-Roms" should be on all packages that have copy-protection.
Also could we add "This DVD/book/CD has been edited/censored from its original form. (this one is for you Walmart)"
We need more people in office like Ron Wyden.
Senator calls for renaming Copy-Protection as Freedom-Protection !
This is a band-aid to fix a problem that's far worse. Don't stand up and cheer because companies now have to put a label on things that people already know. Do you honestly think people are going to see the label and say, "Oh wow! I had no idea!" It didn't work for cigarettes, and it's not going to work for overturning the DMCA.
Now, if they could only save us a little time and include in the label the copy protection format used and version number...
When I first read this article, thoughts started swimming through my head about what the warnings might look like. Perhaps something that resembled the warnings on cigarette packages, or something boldly civil libertarian, like, "By purchasing this product, you are advancing the agenda of fascists who want to control your every move in the name of profit, sucker!"
But then it occurred to me, this law could require that a symbol that equates to the wrong-headedness of technology-restricting copy protection schemes. My proposal: print a bold black swastika on the case and on the disc for all media that has been corrupted by such schemes.
Bypass all of this half-assed warning language and cut to the chase of what this sort of thing really means.
When I install a software package I want to EXACTLY what software is being installed on my computer and I want to know this upfront.
In the case of TurboTax it didn't just install TurboTax, it installed this other third party program to enforce it's licensing system. I don't object to Intuit installing this piece of software, but I want to KNOW that it is being installed. I don't want myserious directories appearing on my system. I don't want data placed in hidden sectors on my hard drive. I don't want icons NOT related to the software I am installing appearing on my desktop (AOL). If a software package is going to do any of these things is should be disclosed up front. I also want real penalties if these rules are violated.
-Matt
crippled CD's should as well.
if this thing is going to go into my machine and force me to physically open the drive to get it back out, i want to know. if the songs have mistakes burned on to them on purpose to ruin ripping, i wanna see a label.
we have a label to warn parents if the cd says "fuck" somewhere, i want one that tells me if it's been fucked.
Just require that the CDs be properly labelled.
If they follow the Redbook standard, and thus can be played in _any_ CD player, then they can be labelled as a CD.
If they don't, then they cannot be labelled or sold as a CD. As that would be false advertising.
Same thing with any of these other copyright protections. If you don't want to label them as copy-protected products, then don't label as if they are not copy-protected. Simple as that.
If my CD player on my computer cannot play the CD, then the CD is not following the standard properly. So, it cannot be labeled as a CD. Same for any other product.
Let these companies produce as much copyright protected material as they want. Heck, let them invent their own standards, etc. But, don't let them pretend they are something they are not. If you aren't going to sell me a legitimate CD, don't tell me it is a CD. (even though it is like a CD.)
That's like selling me a go cart and saying it's a car.
~ kjrose
We can't let this bill pass! The title, when condensed to the first letter of each word, doesn't make an inspirational word! Think of the children!
"Jesus saves, but everyone else in a 10 foot radius takes full damage from the fireball."
First thing that has to happen is the bill needs to make it through whatever subcomittie it ends up being refered to. It will probably be the subcommittee on Science Technology and Space, so if you live in any of the following states contact your senator that sits on that subcommittee and tell them that you want to see this bill passed:
KS (Sam Brownback)
VA (George Allen)
AK (Ted Stevens)
MT (Conrad Burns)
MS (Trent Lott)
TX (Kay Bailey Hutchinson)
NV (John Ensign)
NH (John Sununu)
LA (John Breaux)
WV (John D. Rockefeller)
MA (John F. Kerry)
ND (Byron Dorgan)
OR (Ron Wyden)
FL (Bill Nelson)
NJ (Frank Lautenberg)
"You can't fight in here! This is the war room" --Dr. Stra
Guys, before you start hopping up and down about how great this would be, remember that we're talking about adding YET ANOTHER expensive and wasteful layer of bureaucratic regulation to our already absurdly litigious society.
Mandatory warning labels are almost never a good idea.
I write in my journal
to shut them the hell up
If I remember, one of the first music albums to sport an explicit lyrics label was by Frank Zappa. It was an instrumental album... meaning no words. Given the state and quality of current copy protection methods, I find that history has a way of repeating itself.
All software (like TurboTax) must include a label clearly stating it writes to a hidden track/sector of one's hard drive (Windows) as a means of copy restriction. As such, there is a risk of overwriting other information there.
rob
WARNING:
This product contains copy protection that restricts its functionality, and may damage your playback equipment. Any attempts to execercise your fair use rights will result in criminal prosecution under the DMCA.
Finally, somebody in Congress is actually trying to do what we put them in office to do...to satisfy their constituents.
How many people have complained regarding the adequate labeling of copy-protected CD's? Tons. Hopefully labeling these CD's will make users aware of them and choose not to buy them. I think it's utterly ridiculous how the EMC (Evil Music Corporations) are trying to tell the users how they can (or rather cannot) use the product they just shelled out 18 dollars for.
IGB: More fun than eating oatmeal!
Contact your legislators and ask them to get behind Wyden's bill; while you're on the site, you might even consider joining the EFF. Wyden's proposal can give some much needed visibility to DRM restrictions --- something the content industry would prefer to slip silently past consumers.
If stores sold the copy protected version of a CD for oh say, $12-$15 (yeah, I know that's laughable considering how expensive CDs have become) and the non-copy protected version for $18-$20, I wonder which would sell better. Is it worth an extra $3-$5 to be able to backup the CD (and yes, I know you should able to do this without paying extra.)
The same arseholes - the senators and assemblypersons - that come up with DMCA and other shite turn around and write up a government rule that you must now puts stickers of all kinds on stuff you sell.
Its like a perpetual motion machine. Come up with laws that violate our rights, then demand that people label that our rights are being violated.
Holy hell - how many different ways does this violate the 10th Amendment?
If we were honest, we'd just white-out that part of the Constitution.. because its become a total joke.
guns kill people like spoons make Rosie O'Donnell fat.
Proposal for DMCA Warning:
"An unelected body with aspirations to control everything you read, watch, or listen to, has determined that laws should only be put in place when convenient for corporate interests and sees you only as a statistic on a spreadsheet. Do you really want to buy this crap?"
I like the idea of labeling DRM material. Great idea.
The best kind of choice is 'informed choice', and I hate the thought of those recording labels pulling a fast one on the consumer.
That said, what I really want as 'joe-average-consumer' isn't some infinite-right-to-Napster-share, but what I call "mix rights": the right to compile an album of favorite songs for my own use or for distribution to a few of my friends (I'd even pay for the the redistribution rights.) In the old day, this sort of thing would be considered probably fair use (like clipping and making a few copies of a good news article), but I sense that those freedoms are getting squeezed, legally and technologically, to my great annoyance.
That, and as a consumer I want to be able to hear a song on the radio and have some way to immediately identify the artist/title so I can purchase that song, either later on the spot.
As a consumer, that's all I really want. I've wanted that for 20 years and it annoys the heck out of me that the content industry is too paranoiadly self-centered to deliver it.
--LP
1.link
2.link
3.link
4.link
Makes me proud to be a Oregonian. Wyden has kept championing for YRO across the nation. I think it has to do with very liberal nature of Oregonians. We have legalized euthanasia and marijuana after all. Contact your Senators and get them moving for YRO. Don't say that big business will stop you because in Oregon we have a very high representation of high-tech business. However, this leads to a high number of tech-savvy constituents that influence representation.
Where the Music Matters
A Senator that's actually in touch with reality???? HOLY $HIT.
Everybody break out the skates, hell has offically frozen over!
On a serious note, I'm glad that somebody has a clue up there...
Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
Perhaps a nice little picture of, say, a broken CD-ROM drive, or the nice little warning a Mac gives when its CD drive has been killed by one of these CDs...
or just something simple, like WARNING: This product is inferior.
A Bill that would force Slashdot.org to put warning labels on the main page.
"This site can be very addictive, and you run the risk of completly ruining your sex/social life entirely, do not enter unless you have total confidence or a big penis.
Posting useless rant since 2003.
One thing I've learned is that it takes a VERY big offense to motivate your average citizen to actually get up off their couch and do something - ANYTHING - about something. I mean geez, polls show that at a minimum, 30% of Americans oppose the war on^H^Hin Iraq. That's what, 90,000,000 Americans? How many actually show up at the protests? A few thousand here and there? And we're talking about peoples' lives being at stake! Hell, half of the Yankee populace can't even be bothered to vote - you think they're going to sit down and write a letter to their rep over some stupid copy protection that they don't even understand anyway? Call my cynical, but I don't think so.
I believe that if the RIAA decides they want this tech out there, then it's just a matter of time before all CDs have this copy protection. You can boycott if you want, but if every single CD is using it, there won't be any alternatives for you to direct your money at (none worth listening to, anyway). :(
Like woodworking? Build your own picture frames.
I think one of the biggest problems is that fair use isn't defined very well. It might make sense in law but to the average person it's difficult to know how your are legally allowed to listen to a cd that you have bought.
The sceneario of taking a cd round to a friends house is a good example of this ambiguity. Am I allowed to lend him the cd ?, is he allowed to make a copy ?, if I regularly meet with my friends and play this cd does that constitute as a public performance ?. Am I allowed to backup my cd's ? (digitally ?).
Some of those may seem obvious but under the current copyright law the legality is difficult to judge. Add in the issue of differences of copyright laws in other countries and the legal haziness just gets worse.
There you go , thats his contact page
http://wyden.senate.gov/contact.html
A small appreciation can go a long way.
Siggy Say, Siggy Do
Digital Consumer Right to Know Act
The label of a product must be correct and not deceptive.
If the producer does not label products properly to the detriment of the consumer, the government should step in.
People are selling a product, while representing it as another product, this is false/deceptive marketing. Making the requirements clearer helps both the consumer (they know what they are buying) and the producers who already label correctly, as they now have fair competition.
Yes it is "yet another law", but that is the only downside I see.
A good troll, but a troll nonetheless.
"If it smells like fish, do as you wish.
If it smells like cologne, let it alone"
Thierer seems to think that a lack of government interference in this case promotes lassez-faire economic policy, but he is mistaken. A free market depends on good information. How can consumers make good choices on products if they don't know what they are buying?
A few more mandatory labels on the packages, and no one will be able to tell what the hell it actually is, only who shouldn't buy it.
What's next, a mandatory warning label label? "Warning, this product has more than 3 mandatory warning labels. Parental Discretion Advised."
Hokey statistics and ancient misconceptions are no match for a good thought in your head, kid!
You're here
You're queer
I'm over it.
A more appropriate warning: "Due to copy protection, this CD can not be transfered to your MP3 player". At least this will make it clear to people who don't quite understand what 'copy protection' means.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
This is an excellent step towards keeping digil media playable, but I would have rather seen a similar bill dealing with hardware. In particular functions it should perform...
examples:
My Sony DVD player will play VCDs on CD-Rs but not Music CD-Rs.
My Sony PS2 will play Music CD-Rs but not VCDs on CD-Rs.
Furthermore, although the hardware is cabable, it will not play import games or copies of games.
If it says "Compact Disc" on the hardware then it damn well better play "Compact Discs"
Fight or flight its all the same
Live to die another day
--Ryan
They will come up with a label like this:
"Note: This product contains advanced technology that enables you to play this album on (device x). Other devices may not be compatible with our technology."
Because if your CD player/computer is expecting a CD rather than the crap they are selling then it's because your player "isn't compatible".
I am glad someone in the government can think straight. I have accidentally bought copy protected cds, and promptly returned them, because of vague or deceptive labeling. I also decided to write to the record labels that distributed the copy protected cd's.
I wrote to the record label of de/vision, a german synthpop band. Both, are not well known (compared to, say britney). I have the complete transcription at copyproofcds.org . Eventually their final email said this:
thank you
enjoy your coutry , enjoy your law
and support the dying of bands
good bye.
Needless to say, I am trying to spread the word about this fan-hostile record label.
You would think the words "Celine Dion" would be enough of a warning not to buy the CD.
John
I think the person from the Cato institute is WAY off the mark when he implies that labeling requirements are just as onerous as mandated copy protection:
When I studied economics, one of the conditions of competition was perfect information distribution. I.e., customers have to know what is available, and they have to know what it is. That makes sense.
We're not talking 5-inch flourescent yellow stickers here, just that SOMEWHERE on the box, it needs to state what's inside. Or even just having a list on the manufacturer's web site. This list could be compiled by a third-party site, but they don't know if their list is accurate for each and every version of a CD.
If I don't know what's in the box, I'm going to avoid it. When I buy CDs, I "install" them on my computer, and I put the CD in the closet. I have to know if this is possible when I get a CD.
Simple labeling requirements are *essential* here. I know congress should probably stay out of this debate whenever possible, but if they don't pass something like this now, consumers will demand it anyway later on.
Technology is getting to the point where even the most innocent thing like a CD can contain code, spyware, copy protections that damage your CD drive, etc., etc. I'd like to be able to make intelligent buying decisions (i.e., AVOID buying any of these CDs), and if I don't know what I'm buying, I'll just avoid ALL CDs and get them from filesharing networks or wait until a friend gets it.
I support any reasonable law that creates more information in the marketplace, including trademarks, labeling requirements, SEC disclosure rules, etc. That's the governments role in regulating free markets (and yes, free markets have to be regulated, otherwise there would be no copyright in the first place! I wonder what the Cato guy thinks about copyrights in general).
Damnit. This is all getting out of hand.
The purpose of Copyright Law is to Prevent Non-Copyright Holders From Making Money On Copyrighted Work. File trading doesn't violate this basic concept. As long as someone doesn't try to make money off of a copyrighted work, they're not violating the law.
Now yes, companies will bitch and moan that file trading is costing them money. But they've brought it on themselves by charging too much for their media, not to mention forcing crap media down our throats by controlling what music does and doesn't get released.
I'm a metal/industrial fan. I like Pantera, Biohazard, Megadeth, Metallica, KMFDM/MDFMK, Nine Inch Nails, etc. Yet those aren't marketed by the RIAA member companies. They market Brittany Spears, Justin Timberlake, DMX, Ja Rule, Christina Aguilera, Usher - shit I'd never listen to at all and would never think of buying. They're aiming at a specific market and not looking beyond it to us fringe music fans. We gleefully buy our favorite music from indie labels (yes, I know, Metallica isn't indy, they're on Elektra) and download whatever else we want from P2P services.
Yes, there are some nuts out there who will make CDs, VCDs and DVDs and sell them, thus violating Copyright Law. But for Pete's sake! If we're not making money off of their stuff, leave us the hell alone! The only law we're breaking is the unwritten coporate law that says "If we can't make money, we're going to come and get you." Fuck that.
Blog Prophyts - Right On, Man
Alright, I might be way off base here, but if I own a copy of a CD, am I allowed to download an mp3 of that song? or am I only allowed to make an mp3 from the one that I bought? i.e. the cd?
And if so, how does putting mp3s up on a server consitute being illegal? If you're offering it to people who own the CD. (The people who don't would be infringing copyright and not you.)
So let's make a comparison, I leave my keys in the car parked on the side of the road, because I told a friend he could borrow the car, you left it there for him, it dosen't give anyone the right to steal your car, but you are allowed to leave the door unlocked for lawful purposes (i.e. friend taking it).
I would approve of a disclaimer being put on mp3 sites, to warn users that THEY are infringing copyright by downloading music they don't use, but why stop everyone from doing so?
This might sound a bit funny to some people, cuz clearly many people think that everyone on this planet steals. But I have seen it many times, where someone who has entire collections of their favorite bands will download all the mp3s to store on their pcs, either because they dont know how to extract the content or because they might think it's too difficult, but I'm willing to bet alot of people who download mp3s own some cds, and some of the music they get are from cds they own. I never assumed I was the only one who was into this, maybe other people??
Posting useless rant since 2003.
For all the CDs we hand out at installfests, it would be nice to have some stickers that proclaim the contents to be free software that can be copied and redistributed. It might grab some people's attention. Does anyone have suggests for a pithy slogan?
The net will not be what we demand, but what we make it. Build it well.
At last, a congressman who does the Right Thing.
-uso.
Dreams, dreams, don't doubt dreams, dreaming children's dreaming dreams. Sailor Moon SS
While I think that a disclosure that a CD is broken when sold is a good idea, labeling is getting out of hand. Between parental control labels, copyright labels, and the small form factors on CD cases, I think that "album art" is dead and gone. That was often one of the cooler parts of buying records.
Yearning for the halcyon days of youth that never were... Call me Pat Buchanan, I guess.
GF.
Lots of petrified grits
Because *EVERYTHING* has a copy protection scheme. You can't copy a CD without a CD burner; you can't copy a book without a photocopier or a pen and a lot of time. If you need to take a black marker to your CD to copy it, what's the difference between that and having to build/buy a CD burner to copy it?
Things take effort to copy, some things take more effort to copy than others, and some things are designed to take more effort to copy. That's just a fact of life.
What this law SHOULD do is force any media that does not meet it's standard to have a label. CDs already have copy protection, which has been circumvented - what the consumer needs to know is not if there is or is not copy protection, but whether the "CD" isn't really a CD in the first place and won't work in their CD player.
paintball
All your base!
.sig
-uso.
Take off every
Dreams, dreams, don't doubt dreams, dreaming children's dreaming dreams. Sailor Moon SS
Can someone explain to me how this will effect anything of importance to you or I?
So much like the Parental Advisory Stickers that we glanced at when it first came out, and now we blithly ignore because they are on every jewel case on every shelf. Or any other sticker for that matter.
Copy Protection will continue and Copy Hacking will continue. As long as the contents need to be played, the contents need to be spilled.
At this point its just all a matter of percentages and numbers for the RIAA. It's not about the issue that so many here profess is the meat of the discussion. If the label gets the RIAA a percent or two in their sales, I don't think they really care about the actual principle of the matter. They make lots of money and I won't presume they are naive to think they can reduce the Copiers to a large degree. With the volumes and mass market they deal with, they just need one or two degrees.
So back to my point, What's the big deal about the labels?
"Last one in is a rotten goblin!" - Kepp
In Hanji's post he claims "Everything he says is true"
You object to his statement that "overzealous" could be true because it's a value judgement. The fact that it's a value judgement doesn't mean it isn't true. The obvious example is that Jerks == Jerks. It may be that Jerk is a value judgement, but the statement is inarguably true. I personally believe that the "zeal" shown by the record companies in this regard is measurably in excess of that needed by their own best interests. Overzealous by definition then.
Broken is quite definitely factual. When I skimmed over the CD specs., at no point does it mention "In this PCM stream random bits should be inserted in these places." The fact that an ECC is included to fix defects in the media does not change the fact that every sample on the disk is supposed to accurately represent the value of a waveform to be recreated at a particular point in time. If your software, or company, writes disks that do not have the correct values in these places, and depend on the ECC to to catch the errors they are simply not complying. Therefore if it says DISC with the funny Philps logo and it contains these intentional aberrations "broken" very much applies.
As does "defective."
I personally do not believe that the people who drafted Copyright law and chose the wording that defines "Fair Use" intended that any artists work would would be made available to the world, free of charge, 40 minutes after the CD is home from the store. If you want to argue against such behavior you'll find my postings in support of such. I cannot, however, redefine the language to suit my own personal opinions.
Most people don't join protests because it is a hassle, doesn't fit in their busy schedules, requires effort, and most people have a lot of things to do anyway. What with families to shop for, shuttling kids to after school activities, friends, and so on, most people simply haven't the time to join a protest, especially when the protest doesn't match their schedule. People are simply way too pragmatic to join in any protest. It has no immediate practical benefit, it is not enjoyable in and of itself, it is not a good family outing.
But remember the Divx DVD fiasco, cost $100 more for less benefit, had to have a phone hookup, could only play in the one DVD player it was first played in, and the one claimed benefit, being able to throw out the rental DVD and not have to take it back to the store, didn't matter because they were going back there, or at least past it, anyway? That died a quick death because it had very practical aspects which interfered with people's lives, cost more, and gave them no added benefit.
I say these tags would be wonderful. People are practical, they would see the tag, maybe ask about it, and steer clear. Even if they themselves have no intention of ever using it in a computer, they are not stupid, and will instinctively know that if it is crippled that way, something is wrong with it, and wont want to waste their time with it. If they don't notice it, or ignore, all it will take is a few horror stories from friends, won't play in the car, or portable, or the computer at work, bingo, they will sit up, pay attention, and skip those CDs.
People are very pragmatic.
Infuriate left and right
The graphic that comes with the warning needs to be a small, limp penis surrounded by dollar signs.
The party's over
I'm already thinking of the kittens.
The article is about *warnings* of copy protection, not a new kind of CP.
> They'll roll this out, a very vocal, splinter
> minority will kick up a loud stink, it'll blow
> over, and we'll have lost a little more freedom
Tell me, how does your spiel relate to placing warnings of copy protection on product packaging? How will this 'lose a little more freedom' - surely it gives you more information with which to base your choice? Sounds like more, not less, freedom to me.
While it isn't a bad idea for a company to label their product if it employs some sort of copy protection scheme, is it really the government's place to tell them that the have to?
I don't pay taxes for this sort of frivolous legislation.
Does it say that random bits must not be inserted?
Yes. The red book states that the block error rate must be under a specific threshold. The books also state that the index records have to come in a specific order and fit specific consistency constraints, especially across sessions. The copy restriction schemes break these, and discs that use them do not conform to the red book specification or the CD Plus specification.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Excuse my bad formatting of your post.
My Sony DVD player will play VCDs on CD-Rs but not Music CD-Rs. My Sony PS2 will play Music CD-Rs but not VCDs on CD-Rs. Furthermore, although the hardware is cabable, it will not play import games or copies of games. If it says "Compact Disc" on the hardware then it damn well better play "Compact Discs"
Simple. A VCD is NOT a CD, or a CD-R. CD-R is a misnomer, but I don't really know what the correct technical term for Compact Disc is, however "Compact Disk" means a disk complying with the Red Book format, and contains music. Video Compact Disc means a disk containing a certain type of filesystem storing video content that consists of a multiplexed MPG and some other stuff.
DVD is also NOT a COmpact Disc, rather it's a disc that contains Digital Video, also complying to a certain format.
Therefore, if your DVD player says it'll play VCDs, then it *must* play them. However, it doesn't mean it'll play them when stored on CD-Rs, it means it'll play them only on discs that comply to the VCD standard (of some version, there are a couple of versions of the standard). A CD-R almost certainly does *not* comply to the standard.
Some older CD players don't play CD-Rs because of the color of the laser and the color of the disc. This happens for purely technical reasons and is not an attempt to oppress you. But you should take steps to learn exactly what is what here, rather than claiming that their hardware will work with other hardware that doesn't comply to the standards they are claiming that the stuff works with.
Like what I said? You might like my music
And if those measures do violate the Red Book spec, then Philips has the right to withdraw their license to the manufacturer of that CD for the use of the CD logo.
For one thing, the measures do violate Philips's Compact Disc specifications, such as introducing a higher-than-normal BLER (block error rate), placing the index records out of order, or creating a second session that does not conform to the consistency constraints implied by the CD Extra (formerly CD Plus) spec.
For another thing, most discs carry Philips's "COMPACT disc DIGITAL AUDIO" logo even if it isn't printed on the back cover or the disc itself. The logo is embossed on the inside of the case in the upper right corner.
Will I retire or break 10K?
We've also poisoned your P2P services, so you can't download music either. It's all static.
Not if + and - ratings are associated with each encoded file's hash. That's a bit harder to poison.
Will I retire or break 10K?
1) Since when does having more information cause the loss of freedom? Right now, people can't choose because they don't generally know. This is analagous to the Explicit Lyrics warning label. Sure, times have changed and most people don't care, but if they do care they can make the choice. (This is especially important now with how hard it is to preview or return CDs.)
2) <Political, offtopic rant deleted. Gist: we oppose war, but we're now afraid of our "free speech". Look at the Dixie Chicks. Look at Michael Moore. And so on.>
3) When CD's won't play, we'll go to books. Or plays. Or local concerts. Or invite friends over for Parcheesi. Or, here's a stretch, pick up a guitar/trumpet/harmonica/whatever ourselves. The RIAA isn't OPEC, you know. We can survive without their wares. Of course, this could turn into a large sociological/economical question concerning the emphasis of sports over arts in lower levels of school, and conspiracy theories thereof, but it is still possible.
R: That voice. Where have I heard that voice before? B: In about 365 other episodes. But I don't know who it is either.
I always thought our senators in DC did a fine job..
Or, here's a stretch, pick up a guitar/trumpet/harmonica/whatever ourselves.
And play what song? The copyright owner has the exclusive right to authorize public performance of a musical work.
Will I retire or break 10K?
You may applaud Wyden's stance on copy protection but you should also know that he has consistently opposed all attempts to protect innocent life in the womb. He also voted for Oregon's famous so-called "Death With Dignity" act that legalizes doctor-assisted murder of patients. The man is a package deal, you can't support him on one issue without supporting him on the others. The sanctity of life is more important than a few darn copy protected CD's.
Maybe we should all start writing letters to our congressman and senators to adopt this bill.
There's a growing sense that even if The Future comes,
most of us won't be able to afford it.
-- Lemmy
That's true - it's just supposed to be the capital, the white house, and acres of farmland. Representatives aren't busy, I'm sure they can make their own pizza's, do their own surgeries on themselves, pave the roads for themselves, clean the capital building out themselves, act as their own security guards,...
The government could not function without residents on this piece of land. To make someone choose between full rights and economic opportunity is the antithesis of liberty.
It's not wasting time, I'm educating myself.
This won't help raise consumer awareness of such things. The tag will probably say something like "secured for your protection," and nobody will think twice about it.
I made a PHP/MySQL library that prevents SQL injection & makes coding easier!
If a COMPUTER with a CD BURNER is needed to duplicate a CD, and that's NOT copy-protected, needing a COMPUTER, a CD BURNER, and a SHARPEE isn't copy protected either. It's just one more step in the copying process, albeit a strange one. Neither is needing a COMPUTER, CD BURNER, and DeCSS. Copying is copying - how is needing DeCSS to copy something any different from needing an OS with support for your CD-ROM drive and burning software for your burner?
A normal, mundane CD *IS* a copy protection scheme. Go get a CD. Look at it. Can you copy it? Can you even read it? No. Everything on it is encoded in 1's and 0's. So you learn how to decode the 1's and 0's, design a CD Burner that uses that information, and you can copy CD's. A copy protected CD has a different encoding of 1's and 0's. So you learn that encoding, design a device that utilizes that encoding to copy CD's. Why is one of those just copying, and the otherone circumventing copy protection?
paintball
If we had more legislators who were interested in things that mattered, we would have labels clearly identifying which strains of corn/wheat/hybrid vegetables we were consuming. That way when little Timmy, or Sally suddenly develops a 104 deg. fever, practices projectile vomiting and sentences our asses to $1000+/6 hr. emergency room visits and useless prescriptions of overly proscribed anti-biotics (while doctors shrug and tell you that it isn't a virus) we have a good idea what happened and can take steps to see that it doesn't happen again.
/. and other online sites, where online buyers are likely to notice a row, and inform people the word will get out and music sales will drop.
Maybe people need to grow up a bit and start walking CD's back to the point of purchase and protest when the assholes won't take them back. I've let friends know of anything I've purchased that won't allow me to back it up--and I imagine the ripple effect works well. If you let the point-of-sale know there's a problem and inform customers that there's a problem at the POS, and get on
Sony Music is currently facing dark times. Good for them. Maybe it will make them more aware that there's a problem.
Music enriches our lives, but it doesn't cause health problems. It really isn't a sustenence item, is it? How important is music compared to food?
Legislators need to stop worrying about re-election funding and understand that this is a non-issue. Standing up to the processed food industry is a noble fight, a heroic battle. Blasting the RIAA is like picking on a surly 10 year old.
Every new form of media has it's own Requirimento
the fact that his state (Oregon) has the highest unemployment figures in the union instead of worrying about stuff like this? How is this gonna help the Oregon economy anyway?
One man's pink plane is another man's blue plane.
after all don't they make the mp3 players, and they also make copy-protected cds. So if all their customers behaved legally the only thing they could play on the mp3 is their home recordings of the kiddies playing recorder (eek)?
that doesn't seem to match the sony marketing of their mp3 players. (create your own music mixes - for me that means no recorder music thanks)
So is it legal in the USA to be promoting something that encourages illegal behavior? And is it good business practice to be building copy protected cds that hurt the mp3 player business when you're in both?
-- it must be true, it's on the internet.
Everytime there is a story like this, the title always throws me. They make it sound like it is for copy protection (like proposing a new restriction) but then it ends up being against. I guess sometimes it's just a little ambiguous.
-You may license this sig for only $6.99.
This is not merely an academic point - I believe the patent holder, Philips, was quite serious about enforcing this (they are on the hardware rather than content side so it's against their interests to reduce the functionality of the product.
I've seen a few of these discs in Australia. They look the same except they are marked 'audio sound recording' rather than 'compact disc'. Also they are using some little symbol that doesn't look like anything but is supposed to constitute the consumer warning. There is text below it but it's literally in about 4-point text and most people can't read it without a microscope. (Not kidding).
from fiends who like to turn them into massive galleries. web clip art, tubes etc without the artist's permission. It can be quite aggravating to have to track these people down. recent arguement against right click funtion: http://www.epilogue.net/community/ubb/Forum9/HTML/ 000384.html
and for the thieves out there, In the event that you're using our pictures to make a proffit, we usually find you and your ISP and you get flames from many angry artists.
catgirls and fairies
I was under the impression that's what the terms "Free Software" and/or "Open Source" were supposed to be for.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
THE PRODUCT IN THIS PACKAGE CONTAINS TECHNOLOGIES DESIGNED TO TAKE AWAY YOUR RIGHTS. IF YOU PURCHASE OR OTHERWISE TAKE THIS PACKAGE INTO YOUR POSSESSION FOR USE OR OTHER PURPOSES, YOU ARE STUPID AND DESERVE TO LOSE ALL YOUR RIGHTS. THE PRODUCER OF THIS PRODUCT WANTS YOU TO BECOME A SLAVE.
Furthermore, anybody who places copy protection of any sort into their product will be prohibited from advertising or doing any form of marketing whatsoever. Instead, they will have to give all incoming money (not profits but rather ALL the money, including money owed to others as payment for whatever) to a special government agency that keeps track of companies that utilize these innovative technologies, and that government agency will advertise warnings to consumers to avoid those defective products, kind of like the way the government is trying to stop smoking in some parts of the country.
COPY PROTECTION SUCKS!!!
Good - I hope it passes. That way I'll know not to buy it before I shell out the cash.
You are all fartheads.
Cnet quotes Adam Thierer, an analyst at the free-market Cato Institute, says Wyden's bill is unwise.
"The better alternative to federal mandates on either side of this debate is to instead just encourage a technological free-for-all in the marketplace," Thierer said
That would be all very well and good, but how in the hell is the consumer supposed to make an informed choice if the information isn't available to them.
Wyden's bill seems like just what is needed to encourage the technolgical free-for-all Thierer 's asking for.
Frankly, it's seeming more and more that the Cato Institute, instead of being a 'free market' think tank is just another shill for big business.
According to this page, the first result from the Google query maximum bler "red book", "The Red Book specifies a BLER of 220 as the maximum allowed." (Other results from the same query corroborate this source.) A copy prevention scheme that inserts intentional block errors may in some cases push the disc's block error rate (BLER for short) over the limit, breaking conformance with the specification.
I admit that I was guessing at the consistency constraints, but I'd assume that those who wrote the Philips specifications (such as the second orange book, which defines multisession recordable CDs, and the blue book, which defines "CD Plus"/"CD Extra" stamped multisession CDs; see also cdpage.com) would have been smart enough to insert them.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Do not make illegal copies of this disk... hey wait a minute... you can't make an ILLEGAL copy of this disk!
"May in some cases?" That's the lamest thing I've ever heard
But given the systematic errors that copy protection introduces combined with the random errors introduced by replication, the maximum BLER specified by the Red Book is not so many sigmas (standard deviations) away, and it's almost certain that a large percentage of manufactured discs violate the spec's BLER limit. Every single disc that turns out over the limit is a case of trademark infringement if it carries the "COMPACT disc DIGITAL AUDIO" label.
you haven't the foggiest
What do you dispute? Do you dispute that at least one CD audio copy protection method introduces intentional uncorrectable block errors? Or do you dispute that the whole process of manufacturing copy-protected CDs introduces so many that it violates the Red Book specification?
Please read this Wired News article.
you're desperately googling for something to support your side of the argument, right?
Correct, but only because I don't have a copy of the Red Book in front of me because my local public library does not carry it. But if "desperately googling" results in success, what's wrong with it?
You are an idiot.
An ad hominem attack does nothing to further your argument.
Enclosing a phrase [in a Google query] in quotation marks does nothing, you clod.
Then why do I get so many more results for |red book| than for |"red book"|, and the number and order of results for |"red book"| is about the same as for |red-book| or |red.book|?
Will I retire or break 10K?
Philips licensed the logo for their use; it's up to Philips to decide if they're in breach of that license agreement.
And Philips has in fact decided to warn the labels about the use of the logo on non-conforming discs.
I dispute the notion that you have the foggiest idea what you're talking about.
The CD-R FAQ, section 2-4, lists the major CD copy protection methods in use. Thus far, I have concentrated on the "static" method, for which I could find the most evidence of potential violation of the Red Book specification.
I also dispute the notion that anything you've said here is even remotely true.
I have presented evidence by linking from my comments to web pages containing evidence. It's your turn to present the flaws in the evidence to which my comments link.
For instance, this web page states: "According to the Red Book standard, the BLER count for a disc must be less than 220. In practice, an average BLER of 50 is more acceptable ... A Burst Error is defined as seven consecutive blocks in which the C1 decoding stage has detected an error [... and] constitutes a Disc Failure." I have presented the evidence; what do you not accept about it?
You are an idiot, therefore nothing you say should be listened to.
"You are a coward, therefore nothing you say should be listened to." See how that sounds?
The onus is then on you to prove that you are not, in fact, an idiot.
What do you think gives me such a burden of proof? I'd guess you don't get along with others well in real life either if you think everybody is an idiot by default.
So far, you've blown it.
id.i.ot n. "A person of profound mental retardation having a mental age below three years and generally being unable to learn connected speech or guard against common dangers" (American Heritage® Dictionary). Given that I have scored 130 on an IQ test and received a B.S. in computer science from a reputable engineering school, I don't see how I match this precise definition of "idiot". If you claim that this definition is in error and that I match some other precise definition of "idiot", please state such a definition, along with why "idiots" under your definition should not be listened to.
doesn't know how to read Google's help page, maybe?
You claimed that Google would phrase enclosed in quotation marks as an exact phrase. Then why does Google's help page state: "Search for complete phrases by enclosing them in quotation marks"?
If you continue to argue without providing evidence against what I have mentioned in this thread, then you are a troll, and I can find all sorts of reasons not to listen to trolls.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Ignoring the implication that people are incapable of writing their own music
Which was entirely the implication. I have so far found no way to prevent myself from making the same mistake that George Harrison made.
a gathering of family and friends is not a public performance.
Correct. US copyright law, 17 USC 101, defines a public performance as a performance "at a place open to the public or at any place where a substantial number of persons outside of a normal circle of a family and its social acquaintances is gathered".
[AOL's copyright on "Happy Birthday to You"] is a much more obvious abuse of copyright
Even more obvious are the perpetual copyrights in the UK on the KJV Bible and Peter Pan and the situation in Mexico.
Will I retire or break 10K?