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Cheating in Multiplayer Games

millertime3250 writes "Tom's Hardware is running an interesting article on cheating in multiplayer games. In an issues that has gained increasing notority, it is a great read for those Counter-Strike players and others alike. It defines the different types of cheats like Client Hook, OpenGL Hack, and Hard-Coded Hack, and cheating's effect on gaming."

314 comments

  1. Kick em out... by irokitt · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I think common cheats should have a forum where they are documented. That way, if someone at a LAN party gets noticed using them, they can be kicked out.

    --
    If my answers frighten you, stop asking scary questions.
    1. Re:Kick em out... by ergo98 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Most cheats are well known. For Quake III based, OGC (that's an interesting page in general with good screenshots) is well known and often suspected.

      However I think the problem isn't so much at LAN games where you have actual physical people who'll clearly see if you're turning on auto-aim or wallhacks, but rather online games where every person is isolated, and the only monitoring is the realism of their gameplay. Some guys, like Urban Terror, allow some players to spectate, or to spectate after they die, and this can allow one to look over someone's shoulder and determine, to a pretty good accuracy, if their play seems skillfully good, or unreasonable. Wallhackers, for instance, are generally brutally obvious.

      Most online games I've played have been ruined by hackers. From Diablo, to Quake 3, to America's Army. Cheaters in online games are not only morally reprehensible, they seem to have a very weak desire to be challenged, and hence can often be considered the weak of the herd.

    2. Re:Kick em out... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      myg0t.com lists pretty much all the popular cheats. It's an actual cheating site, but/so it's one of the best places for info.

    3. Re:Kick em out... by Stalyx · · Score: 1
      In a LAN party if someone cheats.....

      I thimk I would personally take a baseball bat and proceed to use his head for batting practice.. but thats just me.. you can kick him out :-)

    4. Re:Kick em out... by FryGuy1013 · · Score: 3, Interesting
      --
      bananas like monkeys.
    5. Re:Kick em out... by Dylan+Zimmerman · · Score: 1

      Man... I would really hate to be him.

      That has to be illegal. Unless they made him sign a disclaimer/waiver/whatever beforehand, that is.

    6. Re:Kick em out... by FryGuy1013 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      it actually wasn't _really_ his computer. They did catch him cheating and set him up with a fake box. Did you notice how easy it was to pull his computer out? There were no wires attached.

      --
      bananas like monkeys.
    7. Re:Kick em out... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The problem is you don't always know who they are, and too often highly skilled innocent players are accused.

      I think that wherever it makes sense, have a handicap rating system that segregates players by ability or peer-rating, or both. That way, if someone chooses to cheat, he will either have to deliberately play badly for a time (no fun), or take some kind of penalty to remain in the same class, or be moved up to the next level.

      In the best case, all of the cheaters would wind up playing against each other.

      A system like this would probably not work well if the game has a small player population, but in that case, there probably would be few cheaters anyway.

    8. Re:Kick em out... by ergo98 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They just don't take the games as seriously as you do and enjoy making a mockery of your competition.

      Yes, they don't take it seriously enough that they covertly and as secretly as possible spend hours every night attempting to earn the respect for their gameplay...clearly they're, err, "mocking" (at least after they're caught). You must be the kid who sent love notes to girls, and when they laughed you away claimed that you were "just joking". The world is all a retrospective laugh to the pathetic.

      an online gamer calling someone else the 'weak of the herd'?!?

      Yes, "online gamers" are a real rare breed these days, now aren't they. 1989 called: They'd like you to move out and maybe get your own place in the modern world, where pretty much everyone partakes in this newfangled thing called "the internet". The only ones who would proudly proclaim that they don't participate in online gamers are the dumb.

      Having said that, the point is that healthy, "competitive" adults like a fair challenge, even if it means losing. I'm not the greatest player in many of the games I play, yet when I am beaten I can respect the gameplay of the opponent, and accept defeat graciously. That is unless you magically get blindsided time after time, and then spectate the culprit to watch an obvious wallhacker and aimbotter at work, smashing down everything around them. I remember first going online with Diablo to give it a shot to find 900 hp "level 2s" who would just sit in the dungeon killing everyone who came along: These are the anti-social a-holes who sneak out at night to kick down snowmen and smash pumpkins.

    9. Re:Kick em out... by sleeper0 · · Score: 3, Funny

      wow, proof of what i always suspected. Those hardcore stay up 3 days straight at a LAN party gamers are on more meth than a gang of trailer park tweakers.

    10. Re:Kick em out... by Sfing_ter · · Score: 1

      Cheaters should have their sexual organs removed and then served to them with salt and vinegar. We have a UT clan and we post our list of unwanted/banned assholes so other admins can ban their asses too. WTF is the point of cheating. Once again, remove genitals, serve chilled. As for lan parties, well, cheaters will be shunned,(nothing like a good shunning), their computers riddled with virii, Kazaa-Lite removed and then Kazaa Real will be installed, we then open all ports and share their hard drive, drop all our pr0n onto it in a folder called, "Honey Come Check This Out". At that point we let our admin "~AFU~-=CHAOS=-" at them,(he does the carving, marinating and serving). We have never actually had any one cheat at a Lan party, mostly because "~AFU~-=CHAOS=-", while a mighty and benevolent god, can get quite cranky and resembles CThulHu. Just like SPAMMERS and car salesmen, cheaters should be listed and passed about. Later I will stop holding back and let you know how I truly feel.

      --
      A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. Emo Philips
    11. Re:Kick em out... by FeloniousPunk · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Some guys, like Urban Terror, allow some players to spectate, or to spectate after they die, and this can allow one to look over someone's shoulder and determine, to a pretty good accuracy, if their play seems skillfully good, or unreasonable. Wallhackers, for instance, are generally brutally obvious.
      That is very useful, unfortunately this mechanism can also be used to the advantage of cheaters. If dead players spectating can talk to their team, they can observe enemy players' movements and report them to still living teammates. Some servers disable dead spectating for this reason.
      Most online games I've played have been ruined by hackers
      Yeah, I agree totally. They've really poisoned the well; it's such a common phenomenon that pretty much every game I've played in online in the last year or two there has been at least one accusation of cheating. Anyone who plays well or just has a good day becomes suspect, and it really sucks playing online in that sort of atmosphere.
      The Internet has been a really depressing revelation on what people can be when they think no one's watching. From cheaters in online gaming to virus writers and crackers, all that anonymity hasn't yielded a very flattering portrait of people. And will in turn produce an internet in the future that is much more intensively monitored and controlled.

      --
      I know this because Tyler knows this.
    12. Re:Kick em out... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I stopped buying pc games for my oldest nephew, whether the online shootemup variety or other kinds. All he ever does, I've noticed, is go directly to the internet to find out how to cheat. Waste of good money, and I'm not going to give it away to the game publishers for nothing anymore. Not til they straighten their shit out. (Yes, in many cases they encourage this phenomenon).

      He's a good kid, but assholes have convinced him and others that the only way to succeed is to cheat. They have no self-respect or shame, and so what he sees beyond his family is people his age and older cheating wherever possible. Cheat the system, cheat at school, cheat at games -- these days it goes all the way from the little shit like this particular topic, up to stealing investor billions and stealing elections.

    13. Re:Kick em out... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You could go to jail for cheating. I think cheating is illegal under the Digital Milennium Act (DCMA).
      Or am I wrong?

    14. Re:Kick em out... by WWWWolf · · Score: 1
      That is very useful, unfortunately this mechanism can also be used to the advantage of cheaters. If dead players spectating can talk to their team, they can observe enemy players' movements and report them to still living teammates. Some servers disable dead spectating for this reason.

      Talking to teammates or opponents while dead spectating is still somewhat legitimate.

      Imagine the situation in Urban Terror's Team Survivor. All but one player on both sides are dead. They stalk each other for several minutes. About 3 minutes into the game, everyone wants to cry "You're both on the wrong sides of the map, you blind morons! FrAgLaMa is on the roof, Bam-CommAndA is in the garage!" =)

    15. Re:Kick em out... by withinavoid · · Score: 1

      We used to run a few game servers at work for our internet subscribers (actually were available for anyone on the net). There were quite a few problems with cheating. Players would notify us and we/they would ban.

      I've been out of running servers for quite a while, but how about implementing a RBL same as is used to fight spam: Mail Abuse. Of course that brings up DHCP problems when users change IP addresses. But it may be doable. Hell, even combine the SPAM RBL and the 'GAMES RBL'. Cheaters wouldn't be able to send email, and spammers couldn't play games online!

      As stated, I've been out the mix a long time and there may already be something out there like this.

    16. Re:Kick em out... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's tragic that your nephew thinks this way.

      You should let him loose on a paintball field...

      After the first time he cheats, gets caught and it forced to run gunless through the speedball court while everybody gets to shoot at him, he'll have a different take on things...

      Nothing cures a punk like a good ass kickin...

    17. Re:Kick em out... by Vuarnet · · Score: 1

      The only ones who would proudly proclaim that they don't participate in online gamers are the dumb.

      Just a small contribution to the topic: I don't like to play online games, other than the occasional DikuMUD now and then, because my ISP isn't quite as trustworthy as I'd like. If i'm reading /. and my modem disconnects, well, I just have to dial back, maybe lose a minute or two. If i'm playing Brood Wars or Quake3 online, that lost minute can cause me to lose what was otherwise a fun and enjoyable game.

      Besides, I've always liked LAN Parties more, because there's nothing like the look on your friend's face in the other side of the room as you annihilate his sorry ass with your secret squad of zerglings, or frag him to tiny bits with a rocket launcher. But then that's just me.

      --
      Tongue-tied and twisted, just an earth-bound misfit, I
      Learning to fly, Pink Floyd.
  2. interesting by no+reason+to+be+here · · Score: 5, Funny

    In an issues that has gained increasing notority

    George W. Bush has started submitting articles to /.?

    That's an interesting strategery for the upcoming presidential race.

    1. Re:interesting by millertime3250 · · Score: 1

      Cry me a bloody river, I don't need no gramma.

    2. Re:interesting by Aliencow · · Score: 3, Funny

      Well, maybe some people here can teach him how to cheat online, and he'll tell them how to cheat at elections... win-win situation !

    3. Re:interesting by Imperator · · Score: 1
      George W. Bush has started submitting articles to /.?
      No, but he's been editing here for a while now.
      --

      Gates' Law: Every 18 months, the speed of software halves.
    4. Re:interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      stupid anti-gwb comment ...+5:funny
      anti bj clinton comment ...-1:troll

      no bias here on commie-dot...no siree...

      in other news...socialism/communism has and DOES STILL KILL MILLIONS and pulls humanity down into the stinking swamp of 'collectiveness', out of which only individuals not brainwashed by current right-left posturing can become aware and act against it.

      don't bother trying to 'vote' for freedom...LIVE IT!

  3. Good election karma by irokitt · · Score: 5, Funny

    Hey, it might make me vote for the guy...

    --
    If my answers frighten you, stop asking scary questions.
  4. Quake cheats by jon787 · · Score: 1, Redundant

    Of course this isn't complete without a link back to these:
    Quake Cheats
    Slashdot article on the same

    --
    X(7): A program for managing terminal windows. See also screen(1).
  5. TCP to the rescue! by ArsonPanda · · Score: 5, Funny

    Man, its a good thing we'll have MS's Trusted Computing Platform soon, to help deal with things like cheaters.
    Counter Strike - Palladium Edition

    --

    --I don't want the world, I just want your half.
    1. Re:TCP to the rescue! by blowdart · · Score: 1
      its a good thing we'll have MS's Trusted Computing Platform soon

      You may joke, but at least with console games, X-Box, PS/2 and the like the likelihood of cheating is reduced. I'm happily playing Wolfenstein on the x-box now, and it's just like the PC version.

    2. Re:TCP to the rescue! by Stalyx · · Score: 1
      Hmm.. I have heard of rumors that there are cheats for console games. I suppose they use a combination of modded consoles or hacked game CD's. But it can be done..


      The problem with the PC game market is that its waaaay to easy to hack. You just have to get on slashdot and search for quake cheats :-p

    3. Re:TCP to the rescue! by 0101000001001010 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Believe it or not. This is actually one of the DRM applications I am actually looking forward too. It would make (massively multiplayer) online games so much more entertaining.

      This goes to show once again that no technology is inherently good or bad. It is the application of said technology where we must collectively learn to act more responsibly.

    4. Re:TCP to the rescue! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it is the REGULATION of the technology ENGINEERS (microsoft) that we must collectively ADMINISTER so that nothing bad should RESULT in the use of it.

      We collectively hate Microshit and yet half of us love AMD and other companies who are going to support 'trusted computing'.

      YOU FUCKING TWATS.

    5. Re:TCP to the rescue! by IICV · · Score: 4, Interesting
      I, personally, would rather only play SP games on a non-protected machine than be forced to use something that could concievably be used against my interests just to play against other people over the net without fear of other people cheating.

      Counter-Strike isn't that good. I doubt anything would be.

    6. Re:TCP to the rescue! by firewrought · · Score: 1
      This goes to show once again that no technology is inherently good or bad. It is the application of said technology where we must collectively learn to act more responsibly.

      Good versus evil, inherent versus applied... your statement may be correct, but I object to the way you view the world. A more effective way of summarizing DRM is that the technology will tend to be applied in bad ways by human beings. Maybe for another sentient species it will be a good technology, but for us it will be a costly pipe dream.

      And as for gaming... there are better ways to solve this problem. How about a web of trust technology built into gamespy and other game-finding programs?

      --
      -1, Too Many Layers Of Abstraction
  6. Re:Cheating at getting first post by irokitt · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    And it looks really awsome on a Radeon 9800 running DX9, with 1.5 GB of DDR-400 and a Hyper-threaded 4.06 P4 (800 FSB, anyone?).

    --
    If my answers frighten you, stop asking scary questions.
  7. It's all about trust by Thinkit3 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Imagine when information becomes free and we all have source code access? I think at some point you can't stop the technology and you just need to trust. We'll just have to play with those we know.

    --
    -Libertarian secular transhumanist
  8. Damn by Timesprout · · Score: 5, Funny

    No one ever accuses me of cheating, probably cos I am so crap. Does camping count ? I'm really good at that.

    --
    Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
    What truth?
    There is no dupe
    1. Re:Damn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      "Does camping count?"

      Only if you camp with a wallhack, ie. look through the walls of your tent into the other one's tent.

      Aside of that, camping is not cheating - it's gay
    2. Re:Damn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuck why dont you say something 99% of people wont expect you to say.

      Fucking fuck

    3. Re:Damn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Campers suck too.

      Dork.

    4. Re:Damn by tabby · · Score: 1

      I'm not camping, I'm resting. ;-)

      --
      I've experiments to run, there is research to be done on the people who are still alive.
    5. Re:Damn by Jonner · · Score: 1

      Right, so the key is that you can get away with cheating and no one will care as long as you suck. Of course, I can't really imagine why you'd want to prove that you suck even with an unfair advantage.

    6. Re:Damn by Acidic_Diarrhea · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Camping isn't cheating. It's poor playmanship but it's not a "cheat" in that you are given an unfair advantage in the way that this article is talking about.

      --
      I hate liberals. If you are a liberal, do not reply.
  9. Re:Cheating at getting first post by irokitt · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    3.06 P4, mibad. All apologies.

    --
    If my answers frighten you, stop asking scary questions.
  10. More whiners than cheaters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    For every cheater, there are at least ten players who'll complain that you're cheating when you kill them - sour grapes.

    1. Re:More whiners than cheaters by SeXy_Red · · Score: 1

      Yes, I agree. Thats why I play almost exclusivly on servers that I have admin access to. If anyone starts whining too much I gag them, problem solved:)

      If your wondering what server I am an admin at check out:
      64.191.53.192:27020 (counterstrike)
      Website: www.SeXy-Crew.com

      --

      This sig was generated by a barrel of trained kittens for SeXy_Red (550409).

  11. The new wolfenstein by lechuck80 · · Score: 1, Insightful
    The new wolfenstein demo has something called "punkbuster". I am not sure what exactly it does.

    I'v heared of some neat cheats where they disable wall's (keep them wirerame) so you always know where everyone is. Although I would be pissed if this ever got used against me. It's just more fun to play on a level playing field.

    --
    "Mr. President, we cannot allow a mineshaft gap!"
    1. Re:The new wolfenstein by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'v heared of some neat cheats where they disable wall's (keep them wirerame) so you always know where everyone is

      I had a buggy Voodoo3 driver that used to give a similar effect in UT, great for camping.

  12. Nothing new said, but... by rzbx · · Score: 4, Informative

    There really isn't anything new in this article that hasn't been said before. He at least puts up a basic outline of some of the more popular games out there and the most used cheats. If you want more in depth articles covering the topic then check out the various websites affiliated with the game such as the official site, fan sites, anti-cheat sites, and various gaming sites. Good read none-the-less for those not familiar with game cheats.

    --
    Question everything.
  13. Sorry... by dethl · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'm too busy cheating on Counter-Strike to go read the article.

    --
    "Some fight for law. Some fight for justice. What will you fight for? One day, you will see."
  14. Alot of cheaters think it's ok by 1337_h4x0r · · Score: 4, Insightful

    because they "aren't that good" or "I still get killed even though I'm cheating!"

    I've seen lots of cheating in Americas Army and it was the primary reason I stopped playing that game. It really ruins the game, although it is fun to kill a cheater when you KNOW they are cheating! :)

  15. cs anti cheats by Meeble · · Score: 3, Informative

    our cs server now has an anti cheat that the admin developed. It runs locally on your machine and checks your hard drive for common cheat files, it will also take screenshots of your game running and ftp them to an ftp server. IT also checks the md5 hash as you play. It's found a lot of h4x's already

    you can check it out at www.wnygames.com - it's similar to creeping death imho, but more tailored to the server we play on.

    --
    Fear Breeds Knowledge
    1. Re:cs anti cheats by krisp · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'd rather play with the possibilities of cheaters then be forced to run something that 'checks my hard drive' or 'takes screenshots' of my game and ftps them back.

    2. Re:cs anti cheats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "our cs server now has an anti cheat that the admin developed. It runs locally on your machine"

      That's hacking, you DMCA-violating terrorist! I bet you like to pirate MP3s too, don't you? I know your type. You'll be getting a visit from the cops soon, you bastard. It's people like you who are dragging our great nation down. I bet you vote Democrat, you fuck.

    3. Re:cs anti cheats by Openadvocate · · Score: 1

      Which is why I stopped playing Counterstrike. When the servers I played on, started to do just that, I figured that it was time to quit.

      --
      my sig
    4. Re:cs anti cheats by Chucow · · Score: 5, Interesting
      I'd rather play with the possibilities of cheaters then be forced to run something that 'checks my hard drive' or 'takes screenshots' of my game and ftps them back.

      An interesting point and something I myself have been worried about for quite some time. More frightening to me than a cheating person (usually a lamer using someone else's scripts with poor or little understanding of how they actually work), is the eventuality of an admin who decides to use a server maliciously. It seems to me that with the power server admins have over the clients in some games, it would be feasible to use a server to distribute a virus, etc.

      Imagine how many unique gamers go to a well-populated game server everyday...

    5. Re:cs anti cheats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Many anticheats claim to be like Cheating-Death, but actually they are not similar. Usually they resort to scanning for known file or process names, sending filelistings etc. suspicious things.

      I'd like to point out that Cheating-Death never sends any information about the client to the server. Users' privacy is an important thing to maintainers of this tool.

      More info available from United Admins: http://www.unitedadmins.com/cdeath.php

      Cheating-Death coverage is now about 20% of all Counter-Strike servers, while more servers and leagues adopt it everyday.

    6. Re:cs anti cheats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Democrats (most) feed you bait, which are lies.
      Republicans (not all) tell the truth, yet are hated.

      It's sad, really.

    7. Re:cs anti cheats by PhxBlue · · Score: 1

      This would be a good case for having an open-source anti-cheat, then, wouldn't it? That way, if you're paranoid enough to want to know what the program is doing (and there's no reason not to be that paranoid, it's your PC after all), you can look at the source.

      --
      !#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
    8. Re:cs anti cheats by Rosonowski · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I play on that server. Used to play as [1336-Krew]Loki, now (SD)Wintermute.

      Thing is, FUHAC takes a good five minutes to check the md5 hashes of all the files on my machine. When we're talking about 97,000+ files...

      --
      01101001 01100001 01101101 01101110 01101111 01110100 01100001 01101100 01100001 01110111 01111001 01100101 01110010
    9. Re:cs anti cheats by Meeble · · Score: 1

      it only does a complete scan the first time and then anytiume after that the admin wants it to.

      --
      Fear Breeds Knowledge
    10. Re:cs anti cheats by bobintetley · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Dunno about everyone else, but when I fire up my RTCW on Linux, I run it as a "game" user with no privileges.

      Permissions are your friend! Whilst not unstoppable, it makes it a damn sight harder for untrusted code to break your system.

      Windows has more sophisticated ACLs than *nix, so surely it would be possible to set up a similar game user with no access to the rest of the file system/registry. Why don't game installers do this by default on Windows to proactively try to prevent this type of hack? Why don't lazy Windows users do this themselves?

      Bah

  16. Obligatory quote... by EvilSporkMan · · Score: 0

    OMG H4X!!!!!!!!!11111111

    --
    -insert a witty something-
  17. Touch-screens and other equipment by Eberlin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I've heard rumors of touch-screens being used to make headshots. Under the definition given by the article (altering config files, etc) this isn't classified as "cheating."

    Does "better" equipment constitute cheating? Someone with a laggy connection, for example, becomes harder to hit. Someone with a bigger monitor may be able to see movement more clearly than a poor guy with a 15in screen. Is this the digital divide in fragging? :)

    I know touch-screens could provide a REAL advantage but wouldn't be defined as a cheat by the article. Sure, it's not as deliberate as an aimbot but it has to at least come close.

    1. Re:Touch-screens and other equipment by EvilSporkMan · · Score: 2, Funny

      That has GOT to look pretty funny...Just imagine tapping your buddy's head and watching it explode...*POKE*

      --
      -insert a witty something-
    2. Re:Touch-screens and other equipment by cruppel · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There was a guy who dominated the entire Purdue CS scene until he came to a PUGG (shameless plug, there ya go andy) party and everyone saw his secret: a touch screen. I don't think that's cheating, just lame.

    3. Re:Touch-screens and other equipment by i.r.id10t · · Score: 1

      Someone with a laggy connection, for example, becomes harder to hit.

      Lemme guess - you've never played classic Quake with a ping of 400 have you? Ok, it may be harder for a LPB to hit my lagged butt, but then, it is near impossible for me to make it around corners/thru doors wihtout getting stuck, stay out of lava/slime, or hit anything at all - since by the time my poor packet with "pull trigger" in it has reached the server, you've already communicated with the server up to 10 times.

      No... having lag and RFC1149 style pings isn't cheating - its a major disadvantage.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
    4. Re:Touch-screens and other equipment by Latent+IT · · Score: 1

      Well, in games like RTCW, being much harder to hit can be a great advantage - like on MP_Beach, if you have the documents, and happen to lag, it's nearly a sure bet you can make it to the radio room to transmit them just by zipping right by everyone who's shooting at spots you're not actually in, as you herk and jerk by them. Since you don't have to shoot anyone to win...

      It sucks, but it nearly made playing on a modem worth it. =p

    5. Re:Touch-screens and other equipment by wik · · Score: 3, Funny

      Did he get to ride on this bus?

      http://www.pugg.net/lamers.gif

      --
      / \
      \ / ASCII ribbon campaign for peace
      x
      / \
    6. Re:Touch-screens and other equipment by cruppel · · Score: 1

      Nah dude he failed out. His handle was ONE

    7. Re:Touch-screens and other equipment by ralphus · · Score: 1

      Interesting topic. I'm a avid Q3 player and pretty decent. I also have invested a good amount of money into a fast video card, fast computer, and a thrustmaster tactical board with lots of keybinds and voice commands. I did this mainly because I was getting too much carpal from keyboard/mouse, but the setup I have now allows me to access commands faster than most people who don't have specialized equipment. I've never 'cheated', but I do admit that I get the upper hand sometimes with the 'weaponry'.

      --
      Revolutions are never about freedom or justice. They're about who's going to be top dog. -- Kilgore Trout
    8. Re:Touch-screens and other equipment by carpe_noctem · · Score: 1

      That's nothing. You should see my l337 head-shot skillz with my touch pad.

      --
      "Quoting famous computer scientists out of context is the root of all evil (or at least most of it) in programming." - K
    9. Re:Touch-screens and other equipment by Viceice · · Score: 1

      Whats the point? You still need good motor-neuron skills anyway. Your input device is only an extension of your hand, if you have poor control of your hand, what can the device do for you?

      --
      Sometimes I wish I was a plumber, then I'd know how to deal with other people's shit.
    10. Re:Touch-screens and other equipment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep. There's also people using scripts or external tools to lag their connection when it seems useful. Bah.

      But RTCW just rules, a fellow addict salutes you =D

  18. Where's the fun at? by Goalie_Ca · · Score: 4, Informative

    Cheating has ruined multiplayer games for me. It's extremely frustrating to be constantly spawn killed and the likes. Before i quit playing cs i went on a hunt for cheat free servers. Even the most up to date servers with the latest anti-cheat technology was two steps behind. Even at organized tournaments people constantly cheat. The cheats may be more discreet but they're still used all the time.

    On one server in particular i suspected three clanners of cheating but the admin told me that it was rock solid. I later returned with an aim-bot/wall-hack and showed him how false his sense of protection actually was. All i did was a quick search on google and downloaded the first thing that popped up.

    What really confuses me is why people cheat in the first place. Those who use aimbots are really lame. Where's the fun if you don't even have to click. All you gotta do is face the cross-hairs in the general direction and it does it all for you. Wouldn't you get bored real quickly? I really don't see anything amusing about it all except that you guys like to open your mouth and talk about how 1337 you are when in fact you're nothing but a bunch of little pathetic script kiddies.

    What i really hate is the fact that every game is prone to cheaters. Even when playing chess online some people resort to using computer programs to help them out. How lame is it to run gnu chess in the background?

    --

    ----
    Go canucks, habs, and sens!
    1. Re:Where's the fun at? by Dthoma · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I really don't see anything amusing about it all except that you guys like to open your mouth and talk about how 1337 you are when in fact you're nothing but a bunch of little pathetic script kiddies.


      While that's the usual and stereotypical reason given, I think there's a more obvious reason; to these people, it's really really funny to watch everyone jumping up and down and getting angry screaming "OMG CHEATER" because of their cheating. That's the fun for them - not the winning, but pissing everyone else off.
      --

      Note to M1-ers: a curt but otherwise insightful message is not "Flamebait" or "Troll".

    2. Re:Where's the fun at? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Somebody I know from school is constantly being accused of using aimbot and wallhack, and booted. He doesn't, he just has ridiculously good reflexes (which also transfer well to real, physical sports) and a great pair of surround-sound headphones. He's a world-class player, but he can't play on public servers.

    3. Re:Where's the fun at? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I heard that, but at the same time I actually kind of relish trying to kill cheaters. There's nothing more satisfying than finally wasting some little turd with an aimbot. Working against impossible odds sharpens one's skills, I think, because sometimes after an hour of playing against obvious cheaters, I log onto a new server full of decent players and rule (or at least don't suck too badly).

    4. Re:Where's the fun at? by Soul-Burn666 · · Score: 1

      You are right on the spot!

      --
      ^_^
    5. Re:Where's the fun at? by Stalyx · · Score: 1
      Most cheaters I come across actually do not talk too much shit, which is kinda ironic, they use an aimbot to kill me and then tell me that I am good player....

      There is really no panacea to solve cheating, just play on trusted servers where you know everyone especially the admins. And even if a cheater comes your way, he can be kicked and banned and you can get on with your game :)

    6. Re:Where's the fun at? by Pendant · · Score: 1

      What i really hate is the fact that every game is prone to cheaters.

      Try Return to Castle Wolfenstein (or perhaps rather the imminent Enemy Territory sequel) - I don't believe there are any cheats for this game :)

    7. Re:Where's the fun at? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh don't be so naive. Everybody loves to win.

    8. Re:Where's the fun at? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      I wonder how many of the players that you suspected of cheating, and ranted against, are actually cheaters.

      I play a lot of FPS, and I am pretty good at it, and I get accused of cheating a lot. I stopped accusing people of cheating when I realized I can do some pretty amazing things.

      Personally, I think the witchhunters are every bit as annoying as the real cheaters.

    9. Re:Where's the fun at? by Minna+Kirai · · Score: 3, Informative

      There certainly are cheats for RTCW, and the sequel.

      In fact, one of the best cheats for an FPS is "wallhacking". You install a modified graphics driver that negates the Z value of drawn objects.

      That way, distant things appear in front of nearby ones, instead of the reverse. So you can prepare to fire at an enemy before he's even in view. (Especially powerful with indirect weapons, like a rocket launcher with large explosions)

      I've seen screenshots of Z-inversion wallhacking in RTCW:ET, but don't remember where they went. Here's one screenshot of a related hack: the alpha-blended trick, where the video driver is modified to make everything translucent.

      Cheating based on videodrivers can effect many different games- anything where seeing more clearly could be an advantage.

    10. Re:Where's the fun at? by glitch! · · Score: 3, Interesting

      In fact, one of the best cheats for an FPS is "wallhacking". You install a modified graphics driver that negates the Z value of drawn objects.

      That way, distant things appear in front of nearby ones, instead of the reverse. So you can prepare to fire at an enemy before he's even in view.


      Here is a possible partial solution: have the server issue multiple randomly moving false images behind the "opaque" area. Normal people would never see them, but the cheaters would have to deal with many fake targes, making the illicit information less useful. Going a little farther, the server might even be able to move a fake image into the cheater's view (but somehow still invisible to normal players) and ban the cheater when he tries to shoot at it.

      --
      A dingo ate my sig...
    11. Re:Where's the fun at? by Foolhardy · · Score: 2, Funny

      I like the 16 fps from all those transparent surfaces.

    12. Re:Where's the fun at? by crisco · · Score: 1
      Yeah, I had a couple of friends over for a mini LAN party and one of them is pretty good at CS. Not awesome by any means but much better than I am. He had been playing exclusively at Internet Cafes and university labs and didn't have the game set up on the computer he brought over so I got to watch him set it up, cheat free.

      Nevertheless, one public server with a bunch of mediocre players started accusing him of cheating. When I came to his defense suddenly I was a cheater too.

      Thats how cheats ruin games, the mere suggestion of their existence makes any good player suspect.

      --

      Bleh!

    13. Re:Where's the fun at? by Minna+Kirai · · Score: 1

      Yes- but the special features can often be toggled with a keystroke. Push a button to enable "x-ray vision", then go back to normal mode after you've located the enemies.

    14. Re:Where's the fun at? by Minna+Kirai · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If those things were done on the server, it would increase network usage for every player, degrading the performance of the entire game.

      Somewhat more reasonable would be including code in the client to create fake enemy images behind solid surfaces...

      However, if the game client software was smart enough to do that (meaning it could calculate for itself which walls totally blocked off your view of the area), then it might as well just not send 100% concealed enemy pictures to the video card.

      The kinds of driver-hacks I'm talking about are possible because the game relies on the video card to decide if an enemy is visible to the player, rather than computing that itself.

      (Even better would be for the server to restrict transmitting enemy data for things you cannot see. The original Quake did this- I don't know why they took it out. This would have a side effect of making 40 player games smoother...)

    15. Re:Where's the fun at? by Pendant · · Score: 1

      There certainly are cheats for RTCW, and the sequel.

      Of course there are cheats for the game as it comes out of the box - that's what punkbuster is for. It does a very good job of creating a level playing field.

      I'm a sad bar steward, I've been playing RTCW for a year and a half: I have been owned many times, but there are some VERY skillful players.

      With punkbuster, I've never felt I've been killed in a situation that would cause me to cry "cheat!" - and that's good enough for me :)

    16. Re:Where's the fun at? by TheLink · · Score: 1

      Ah, but if you're the good player, being accused of cheating doesn't feel as bad. Maybe mildly annoying sometimes, but at other times, you can take pride in being that good.

      --
    17. Re:Where's the fun at? by GospelHead821 · · Score: 1

      I think what he's saying is have these images appear beyond the "exterior" walls of the map. It might be easier for the server-side software to identify these. It doesn't sound like a terrible idea, but it also doesn't sound like a great solution either, since it makes gameplay more difficult for a cheater, but really isn't going to prevent the cheater from playing effectively, so long as he can readily recognize the exterior walls or the fake character models (which probably won't be moving the same way that real characters do)

      --
      Virtue finds and chooses the mean.
      Aristotle, Ethica Nichomachea
    18. Re:Where's the fun at? by Blue+Stone · · Score: 1
      "That's the fun for them - not the winning, but pissing everyone else off."

      Alternatively (or perhaps additionally):

      lack of power in real-life...

      ... lots of power in game life.

      --
      Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
    19. Re:Where's the fun at? by FurryFeet · · Score: 1

      You need to see these guys in the right light.
      Cheaters are gaming trolls. They enjoy disrupting games and getting people's panties in a bunch. Not a lot different from the mentality of your typical -1 Slashdot post.

  19. I remember Team Fortress by DarthVeda · · Score: 0

    Boy that was sure fun :)

    1. Re:I remember Team Fortress by FryGuy1013 · · Score: 1

      it still is.

      --
      bananas like monkeys.
    2. Re:I remember Team Fortress by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Join a CustomTF server.
      The mod is open source too.

  20. Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Does getting a life and seeing daylight count as cheating?

  21. No mention of hlguard by JohnCub · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm surprised that the article didn't mention hlguard, also developed by united admins. It runs on all sorts of hl mods and is likely one of the most used anti cheat tools available. In case you are not familiar with it, it contains tools to check for aimbotting, common cheat cvars, and manual ogc detection. If you run any type of hl server (and it's interesting they don't mention the hundreds of other hl mods) hlguard is definitely a server side addon you should look in to.

    http://www.unitedadmins.com/hlguard.php

    --
    -= Why can't I add 'Anonymous Coward' to my list of Foes? =-
    1. Re:No mention of hlguard by waspleg · · Score: 1

      it also doesn't work

      i regularly play on a hlguard protected server since amod it runs doesn't work with vac and i've personally caught 4 wallhack/aimbotters in the last 3 days just by spectating after people start to complain

    2. Re:No mention of hlguard by JohnCub · · Score: 1

      The thing about hlguard is that the server admin has to read the docs and play with the settings for your particular mod. I've worked with this software quite a bit on 3 different mods (tfc, cs, and deathmatch/valve) and I find that the settings vary on each one. It is not foolproof. It is not the be all and end all of anti-cheat technology but it is an excellent tool if properly utilized.

      I just brought it up because the article, thorough as it was, hadn't mentioned it.

      --
      -= Why can't I add 'Anonymous Coward' to my list of Foes? =-
    3. Re:No mention of hlguard by aiyo · · Score: 2

      One great feature of HL Guard is that it wont let any of the clients know where everyone on the map is at any one time. It will only send packets informing them of ememies when the enemy is right around the corner, so youre wallhack is useless. This simple protection saves you bandwidth and stops all wallhacks in their tracks, Ive yet to see one get past this method.
      Aimbots are a different issue, there isnt much you can do to stop external code from moving the mouse once the enemy is on screen.

    4. Re:No mention of hlguard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hlguard violates the gnu gpl licence of metamod - a chainloaded plugin system.

  22. Nothing new.. by Azureflare · · Score: 4, Informative
    Wow they talk about this like this is new to multiplayer gaming. (Also, I take issue with what he says about no clipping; it didn't make seethrough walls, it made it so that walls didn't block you anymore, at least in the original doom...idspispopd or something? Ha, it's been so long.) Cheating multiplayer was really big when Diablo came out; I could remember the cheating idiots who would destroy multiplayer games. In fact, cheaters are what ruined the multiplayer diablo experience for me. Starcraft as well. (Both games I actually bought BTW!)

    I haven't played counter-strike, but it seems like the same types of people are at it again... I don't know, they always barge in and ruin perfectly innocent games. Cheating really does take out all the fun in multiplayer and even singleplayer videogames. That's why, you play with who you trust!

    The only way to do THAT is to make friends...and know them well. A third party isn't going to be able to determine if someone will be a good friend for you or not.

    My problem is I could never find anyone who was as obsessed as I was with videogames (Descent II was fun over modem, I got to kick my friend's ass all the time =P)

    1. Re:Nothing new.. by rickwood · · Score: 1
      Azureflare (645778) wrote:
      The only way to do THAT is to make friends...and know them well. A third party isn't going to be able to determine if someone will be a good friend for you or not.


      Hear hear! I was a RTCW player for a while, and even with Punkbuster there are plenty of ways to screw up a competitive game. Thus, I played on the same server every night, and got to know the other regulars. This particular server had an online forum, which we used to talk about cheaters and jerks so we'd know to vote to kick them. Come to think of it... I think I'll go play some wolf.

  23. Since when ... by still_sick · · Score: 1

    ... does "no clipping mode" mean see through walls? Every game I can recall that has a no clipping mode used it to enable the player to WALK through the walls.

    --
    ...Also, I didn't know Buggalo could fly.
  24. A great resource by legomad · · Score: 5, Informative

    For this kinda info is the forum at www.gamehacking.com

    Actually they discourage multiplayer hacks, but otherwsise there is just about any info on the subject you may want.

  25. malloc(sizeof(cowboyneal)); == Segmentation Fault! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  26. Re:WHO'S IN THA HOUSE? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    well done.

  27. No good solution. by rice_burners_suck · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I strongly believe that cheating in online games is one of the biggest problems facing humanity today. The only thing that could possibly be worse than drugs and violent crime in urban areas, terrorism, war, disease, hunger... is cheating in online games.

    Yeah. It's annoying. Cheating also takes place in casinos and in other physical forms of game play. It's a difficult problem that has been around since games were invented... and it's not going away anytime soon. I don't claim to know the answer. It's just like SPAM, popup ads, and all sorts of other online annoyances. There may not even be a good technological solution... The only thing I can think of is to play with people you know, and if you play with someone else, be wary of what's going on. If they cheat, fuck 'em... There are lots of other people to play with.

    1. Re:No good solution. by FurryFeet · · Score: 1

      I strongly believe that cheating in online games is one of the biggest problems facing humanity today. The only thing that could possibly be worse than drugs and violent crime in urban areas, terrorism, war, disease, hunger... is cheating in online games.

      Perspective, a friend. Friend, this is perspective. You haven't met, have you?

  28. Real advantages by irokitt · · Score: 1

    I think any technological advantages are typically minor. Skill (and sometimes luck) really apply as advantages. Besides, the gaming community is typically no-holds-barred when it comes to equipment. If Rambus 1066, at three times the cost of DDR and coming from a dubious company, gives an extra few percentage points in speed, gamers will go forit. And they have. This attitude seems to permeate the entire community, and no one wants to get left behind. I have personally seen people with steam-powered BOXen beat the crap out of people running top-of-the-line equipment anyway.

    --
    If my answers frighten you, stop asking scary questions.
  29. Re:WHO'S IN THA HOUSE? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Like your mother was last night, Trebeck.

  30. Cheaters aren't the bad guys by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Consider this:
    1) Many of todays multiplayer games are closed-source/proprietary(Q3, Americas Army, Halflife)
    2) Many of the cheats for todays multiplayergames are open-source/free(OGC HL/Q3 Bot, Evilhack America's Army Bot)

    So... before you jump at the cheaters, who are really the bad/good ones?

    1. Re:Cheaters aren't the bad guys by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But whats me from changing

      if (player(id1).shot.player(id2)){
      damge(id2)++;}

      to
      if (player(id1).shot.player(id2)){
      kill(id2);}

      Wh en code is open, cheaters are even more rapant. Thats why most games need a trusted central server with trusted clients. OpenSource's big weakness is lack of centreal control, which is important in online games, hence they are usually proprietry!.

    2. Re:Cheaters aren't the bad guys by DiscoOnTheSide · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Thats like saying "Oh, this virus that has the potential for taking down every major computing service on the face of the planet, but it's under the GPL so it's a Paladin compared to that black knight of an OS whose source is closed." Give me a fucking break. Companies need to make money. Very few companies (especially game companies) have found a way to be profitable using open source. Take Loki Games. They made some great games, but they died, because few people bought them. Valve releases the content code so you can make things like Counter-Strike. You can make new games with the game they made, but you can't touch the engine. I think thats pretty fair. id software releases their older games to public under GPL. Thats mighty nice of them. Think you can make something better than half-life, open souce, and make enough money to devote your life to it? Then fire up your editor of choice and prove me wrong. Yes open source is all well and good, but until a paradyme shift occurs (both on the business end and on the users end) I don't see open source prevailing as well as closed source. Most open source advocates think that free as in speech go hand in hand with free as in beer, and thats where the problem lies. They don't want to pay because they're used to the word free so it makes things automatically equate with zero price. Perhaps we should call it "Liberated Source" or "Disclosed Source" or "Buy me and get the code" source. *shrug* My two cents, I could be wrong, but so can you so think that one out before you mod me.

      --
      Viva La Revolucion! Buy a Mac!
    3. Re:Cheaters aren't the bad guys by cyb97 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I can't really follow your argument here, you say that the games are worse than the cheaters because the games are *payware* and the cheats aren't ?
      Where do you think the next big game will spawn from, some late-night-hackers' bedroom, or a company that charges money...
      Jeez some day I hope that even slashdot-zealots could figure out the simple little fact that everything in life doesn't come for free...

    4. Re:Cheaters aren't the bad guys by localghost · · Score: 1
      Damage would be done server side, so that doesn't matter. Also, what the hell language is that, because that's some really strange (or really stupid) syntax. If it's c++, it would make more sense to have something like
      player::shot(player* p, weapon* w) {
      p->givedamage(w->damage());
      }
      Or if you used QT, you could put hit detection and health monitoring in seperate classes and use
      connect(hitdetect, SIGNAL(hit(player, player, weapon)), health, SLOT(givedamage(player, player, weapon)))
      Yeah, signals and slots are nice.
    5. Re:Cheaters aren't the bad guys by localghost · · Score: 1

      If Q3 is closed source, then what is this? (or for linux)

      (Note: those are direct links, don't click unless you want to download the source)

    6. Re:Cheaters aren't the bad guys by Have+Blue · · Score: 1

      Those are the source for the game logic module and the SDK for developing mods to replace it. The core engine (graphics, physics, networking) is closed-source.

    7. Re:Cheaters aren't the bad guys by localghost · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I realized that after I downloaded it. The filename was misleading. (Q3AGameSource_117.exe)

    8. Re:Cheaters aren't the bad guys by anothermortal · · Score: 1

      I like your thinking, perhaps calling it "Disclosed Source" is a good idea. But some things are good to be open sources. for instance, I learned PHP (well, enough to be dangerous) because of the open source nature, and because many people post their code for others to use. This is very nice when learning. (also helps when you find an error in someone else's code or a better what of accomplishing the same goal a different, faster, better way)
      But some software will never benefit as open source. Fact of life, I think. Apple is kind of doing it right. Open source OS, closed source GUI. Contribute to Open Source, but still keep trade secrets.

  31. Would it help any if... by Faust7 · · Score: 1

    We set up special servers where cheaters could go all-out doing what they do best?

    It could become an entirely different form of competition. Just because you can cheat doesn't mean you can do it well.

    I know there'd always be some cheaters hell-bent on ruining the experience for legitimate players, but perhaps this would give a lot of them the chance to harmlessly work off whatever it is that drives them to cheat.

    1. Re:Would it help any if... by aardvarkjoe · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Cheaters don't want competition. That's why they're cheating.

      Yeah, you would probably see a little traffic, but the primary drive for cheaters is to beat the other guy (and usually rub it in their face.) That doesn't work on a level playing field. Remember, those people who cheat are mostly (1) those who are hell-bent to run the fun of the legit players, and (2) those who want to win the game at any cost. This, unfortunately, caters to neither.

      --

      How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
    2. Re:Would it help any if... by cruppel · · Score: 1

      Cheating-allowed servers are all over the place. It just doesn't affect the ones that like pounding others into submission without hours of (hmm obsessive?) work or practice. Normal servers are possibly be a challenge, even if they are cheating.

    3. Re:Would it help any if... by Stonehand · · Score: 2, Interesting

      For Netrek, there used to be (dunno if there still are -- I haven't played for years, although I think I still have my .netrekrc somewhere...) at least one or two servers which had turned off RSA authentication. This way, you could use any Netrek client to connect, not just one of the precompiled binaries "blessed" as legitimate.

      Therefore you could take, say, the BRMH client and add features such as a torpedo data computer, automatic updates of army counts on all known planets, keys to turn... you were still restricted to the limited information and abilities the server gave you, but you could work around the interface limitations if you chose.

      --
      Only the dead have seen the end of war.
    4. Re:Would it help any if... by irc.goatse.cx+troll · · Score: 1

      A good cheater isn't one who is unstopable, it's one who can pull off the craziest kills in an important leauge match and still not be detected. To cheat 'well' you'd have to be able to look at the corner o your screen through a wall and see you're about to get rushed by a bunch of flashbangs yet not react to it too soon, otherwise you're caught and banned from the leauge -- a cheater that can't play is a bad cheater.

      This idea only works for some of the lesser things people consider cheating. For example, When I ran a public server I allowed people to exploit whatever map exploits they wanted(personal view- if they havnt fixed it in this many reviousions, its part of the game). I also allowed people to bunnyhop if they were the elite few that knew how to pull off a 1.5 bh(its still possible, I'll give a demonstration if someone replies.)

      Of course, in my eyes neither of those things are cheating, so it wasnt truely a 'place to cheat'. Currently anyone running with VAC(valve anticheat) disabled is turned into aserver flooded with cheaters, even though vac sucks(5 month bans for running linux!? 3-5 year bans for repeat offenses?!?!fuck valve.)

      The other problem is of course admins that think everyone cheats -- Many times I'll see the simplest things get accused, Like spraying through 4 or 5 people that lined up. Sorry kids, theres no 'make them line up like newbies'-bot.
      Other people just assume having a good kill to death ratio means you're cheating -- its easy to go 15:0 on a public server if you play smart, and there is no cheat to make you stay alive (excluding the old fakelag stuff that dosnt work anymore)
      or my personal favorite, 'OMG U SHOT ME THRU DA WELL U HAX'. Learn to be more stealthy and maybe i wont be able to.

      Yeah, I kinda turned this into a 'not everyone cheats' rant, sorry about that.

      --
      Pain lasts, kid. Its how you know you're alive. Sometimes I think this growing up thing is just pain management-TheMaxx
    5. Re:Would it help any if... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, you are very wrong. What you believe is just general stereotyping. You are frustrated and your brain assigns all these fitting names for however you feel the cheater's personality is.

      However, as a cheater, i play because:
      1) It's funny as hell.

      2) A majority of people are unbeleivably stupid and call you such things as 'hacker'- this type of thing only fuels my passion for cheating.

      3) Most of the time when i cheat, I don't play to win because I spend my time having FUN. For instance, using AA and increased speed to run circles around teammates as they walk. Theres nothing more pleasing then seeing some newbie perplexed by this.

      When i actually go out and stab (or snipe) some enemies with AA, THAT is when people start yelling cheater- as if my frags were 10 X higher than the best player.
      That, to me, is just plain stupid. Any fucker who crys when i'm cheating when i only have a few frags deserves to be owned. So i rightiously annihilate that person (yes, with my cheat) and listen to them whine and cry..

      And here's the thing. I'm not a skilless player who sucks so bad he has to cheat. It couldn't be more wrong. The truth is, i've resolved to cheating because games tend to get boring when you've played them for too long. Naturally, i resort to different styles of play- cheating is one of the best ways to bring back the fun.

  32. IDSPISPOPD by Delta-9 · · Score: 1

    Damn I forgot and that ... and your mention it of made my fingers muscle memory instantly remember the keyboard combination to pound that code out.

    Thats kinda like the Mike Tyson Punchout! game -- 007 373 5963

    That got you directly into the fight with Mike Tyson

    1. Re:IDSPISPOPD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      wasn't it idclip?

  33. It's not that big of a deal... by revmoo · · Score: 2, Funny


    I play a lot of CS and I Don't really think cheating is THAT big of a deal, with kickvoting, people can kick off the cheaters, so it becomes irrelevant... Really the most annoying thing is people that get killed and then automically accuse the person that killed them of "HAXXORING".



    Not to say that I've not seen any cheaters, but they are easy to spot, and it's always fun to mess with them, you would be surprised what information about a person you can discover with just google and public information...


    Always fun to give them a call in the middle of the night suggesting they keep to honest methods of gameplaying...

    --
    I would expect such blatant racism on Fark, but on Slashdot? Mods please ban this asshole.
    1. Re:It's not that big of a deal... by cruppel · · Score: 1

      I think if people play on university servers or some other network that at least has some sort of real-life connection it stays way more honest. There are some people that cheat occaisionally at Purdue and they don't do it when you show up at their doorstep...All you need to do is get the guy's IP with a four-stoke command (in CS) then, at least with directory services here, find his real address and poof, make an honest man out of him.

  34. This always makes me laugh. by Dthoma · · Score: 4, Funny

    If I were placed on a multiplayer game server where half of the players are cheating, I think I'd just sit and watch the other half frantically screamed "OMG HAX!!!1" messages scrolling down the screen.

    If this continues then the only players of CS and the like will be hardcore cheaters. This will be even funnier because often cheaters consider themselves to be above reproach and will threaten and verbally abuse anyone else who cheats as they do. So all game servers will be infested with retards squawking at each other.

    Looking further into the future...
    An arms race of cheats is almost inevitable. As with a real life arms race it will continue indefinitely until someone comes up with The Ultimate Cheat. By analogy with real life, we can see that this Ultimate Cheat will probably consist of submitting a link to the game server to Slashdot, causing it to be turned into a molten pile of slag and driving everyone playing bonkers. Then no one will play the games any more because of the risk of their computers exploding and I will be happy, for then I will have other freeciv players to play with.

    Then someone develops a wallhack for freeciv, and the cycle starts over again...

    --

    Note to M1-ers: a curt but otherwise insightful message is not "Flamebait" or "Troll".

  35. god mode cheats are best by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    i used to run a Q3A server that turned God mode on on all the players when it detected a cheater.

    that pissed off everyone!

  36. This just in! by Metallic+Matty · · Score: 3, Funny

    Half-Life mods have alot of cheaters.

    In other surprising news, Microsoft continues to make software with security holes.

    1. Re:This just in! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This just in - a lot is two words.

    2. Re:This just in! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This just in!

      Despite the fact that you are 15 years old, have never written in a "Hello, World!" program, and cannot spell "alot," you feel you are qualified to discuss Microsoft security.

    3. Re:This just in! by Metallic+Matty · · Score: 1

      I resent that remark; I've written at least one "Hello, World" program. I am 17, not 15. Also, excuse my poor grammar, I'm sure you've never made a mistake like that in your whole life. No where did I claim I was qualified to discuss Microsoft Security; it was merely playing on /. stereotypes; obviously.

    4. Re:This just in! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hey jackoff, nowhere is 1 word.

  37. Cheating won't go away. by Maul · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Cheating has always been a problem, and always will. The only way to deal with the problem is ignore the cheaters and play on LANs or servers you _personally_ trust. Lamers will always want to install hacks that allow them to cheat their rear ends off and pretend to be l33t.

    Pack when I played Quake 3 quite a bit, I didn't mind the cheaters. I looked at it as playing against an enemy with an unfair advantage. And while I might have lost more often than not against a cheater, I'd still be honing my skills against them. Plus if someone else won the deathmatch, they'd be pissed out of their minds, which was always funny.

    --

    "You spoony bard!" -Tellah

    1. Re:Cheating won't go away. by Kashif+Shaikh · · Score: 1

      "Lamers will always want to install hacks that allow them to cheat their rear ends off and pretend to be l33t."

      This is the fucking thing I hate about cheaters. Play honestly, holding your honour -- losing or winning. I mean, isn't the thrill of doing battle satisfying...especially when you lose -- then come back and try hard to win or get close to winning.

      Everyone plays to win -- but few play for the thrill of fighting. Some players are really good, but have no sportsmanship(i.e. they are too snobby). This is no good either. Hell, if you're team was winning by a land-slide, isn't it more fun to switch to the other side and kick the was-winning team's ass?

      #1 rule to avoid fucking lamers and cheaters: Play when the 12-year olds have eaten their milk & cookies and have gone to sleep(i.e. post 11pm).

    2. Re:Cheating won't go away. by Tingler · · Score: 1

      Play when the 12-year olds have eaten their milk & cookies and have gone to sleep(i.e. post 11pm).

      Is that pacific or eastern time? Or maybe Greenwich time? :)

    3. Re:Cheating won't go away. by Kashif+Shaikh · · Score: 1

      If their ping times are comparable to yours, those brats are in your time zone. And in my case, they are.

      Heck, you can't expect to have good ping times if you live in New York and play on a Seattle server.

  38. The game architecture is part of the problem by Twid · · Score: 4, Insightful


    One issue, as I see it, is the architecture of the game servers themselves. Half-Life, for example, feeds information about the location of all players on the entire map to the client. You can add all the signing and checking of client side binaries that you want, but someone is going to figure out a way to creatively intercept that data if it is there.

    The long-term solution is to just not have the data there. While it would be more work on the CPU to make the game engine instantly draw a character on-screen from no previous information, I would think most multiplayer gamers would give up a few FPS to play cheat-free.

    I'm not familar with any back-end changes for games like HL2 and Doom3. Is anyone out there thinking of this? It just seems common sense. If people are exploiting data, just remove the data.

    --
    - "When you want something with all your heart, the entire universe conspires to give it to you" -Paulo Coelho
    1. Re:The game architecture is part of the problem by Cyno01 · · Score: 5, Funny
      I would think most multiplayer gamers would give up a few FPS to play cheat-free.
      Give up FPS? You're new here, right?
      --
      "Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
    2. Re:The game architecture is part of the problem by jcdick1 · · Score: 1

      How would that work? I mean, your location and the location of all others on the map has to be sent out to the PC to know where to draw you. How do you let the machines participating in the game know where to put people if the information isn't in the data stream?

      --
      What?
    3. Re:The game architecture is part of the problem by 26199 · · Score: 1

      How about server-side clipping? If you can't see the player, you don't get the data.

      Of course to do this properly would introduce a massive load on the server... and the whole setup would need to be low-latency for it to work at all... but it's not completely inconceivable.

    4. Re:The game architecture is part of the problem by Twid · · Score: 1


      Or at least a compromise solution. In half-life, as you can see if you ever try out ogc, every player client knows where every player is at all times on the map, what their health is, and what weapon they are carrying.

      Perhaps the game could server-side clip things outside of a minimum radius, and let the client handle the hard work of close-up clipping. That way, at least the ogc'ers couldn't see everything.

      I'm sure some game designer is gonna give me a slap-down, but it sounds good. :)

      --
      - "When you want something with all your heart, the entire universe conspires to give it to you" -Paulo Coelho
    5. Re:The game architecture is part of the problem by FryGuy1013 · · Score: 4, Informative

      One issue, as I see it, is the architecture of the game servers themselves. Half-Life, for example, feeds information about the location of all players on the entire map to the client. You can add all the signing and checking of client side binaries that you want, but someone is going to figure out a way to creatively intercept that data if it is there. This is completely wrong. It only sends information for players located inside the "visible" portals (i.e. before culling of the true non-visible ones). Try going into the console of a singleplayer game (not lan) and typing "gl_wireframe 2" and notice how far into the map you can see. This is how much data it sends for players as well. Not the entire map by any means.

      And the problem is not in the CPU (client side at least) to have players not visible on the screen at the moment not sent. If anything, it _increases_ CPU usage to have this. Latency is the issue. If you are going around a corner and you don't know anything about whats on the other side, and you peek around it, it will take say 100-200ms to get this information, resulting in a very bad experience.

      Not to mention your advice seems to only help for wallhacking problems. Your client has to know what's visible on your screen, and what's on your screen can be aimed at. More perfectly with the assistance of a cheat even.

      --
      bananas like monkeys.
    6. Re:The game architecture is part of the problem by Xistic · · Score: 1, Informative

      "Half-Life, for example, feeds information about the location of all players on the entire map to the client."

      That's no quite true. The server sends to the client all the players that they could possibly see but none of the players that you couldn't possibly see. Based on the vis data of the map the server figures out a "gray area" between where you can definatly see someone and definately not. This is when it starts sending data.

      I have been on a server that had an anti cheat hack that cause you to be sent data for clients that you could only DEFINATLY see. This, of course had the nasty side effect that when you walked around a corner people just appeared out of nowhere. This causes big problems for high pingers, but then, all wall hacks were worthless.

      "While it would be more work on the CPU to make the game engine instantly draw a character on-screen from no previous information"

      It already does this , but it happens normally before you can ever see them.

      Xistic

    7. Re:The game architecture is part of the problem by ZeroConcept · · Score: 1

      If you were to send player information to the clients only when it's visible, you would need to do some sort of clipping on the server side and you will run into scalability problems.

      Sadly until technology is at the point where determining visibility of entities on the server side is a feasible operation, we are stuck with the current model.

    8. Re:The game architecture is part of the problem by drinkypoo · · Score: 1
      You wouldn't have to give up FPS, because your client does the rendering, and your client will actually have less to do. You have to accept more lag instead, because the server will be lagged out; Or, the server has to be faster, which means more expensive, which means (dun dun dun) less servers.

      It would also be nice because you'd have less bandwidth used by your game if you're not receiving data you don't need; Or the amount of bandwidth used could remain the same, but they could send you more frequent updates.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    9. Re:The game architecture is part of the problem by NotAnotherReboot · · Score: 1

      Actually, they implemented a wallhack block not too long ago into Counter-Strike. It doesn't transmit player locations behind walls it seems, but the problem is, the client still needs to know where footstep sounds are coming from, and some cheats actually take advantage of this and show the footsteps through the walls.

    10. Re:The game architecture is part of the problem by ForestGrump · · Score: 1

      Here is a solution.
      Get a 2nd machine to sniff out the packets from the game server and draw a real-time map of the players.

      Thus, the cheater (without using active cheats) looks over at his 2nd monitor and has the unfair advantage.

      I remember playing Age of Empires LAN games with my cousin.
      What we would do is get an extra computer to join our LAN game, then immedietly quit. When the computer was winning and we got desperate, we would use the 3rd machine to see what was happening on the map.

      Lame, definately. But then, it was me and my cousin. cheating a computer...Computers have no feelings (unless its name is HAL 9000)

      -Grump

      --
      Is it true that more people vote for the winner of American Idol, than vote for the president? -Ali G.
    11. Re:The game architecture is part of the problem by Daniel+Phillips · · Score: 1

      Actually, they implemented a wallhack block not too long ago into Counter-Strike. It doesn't transmit player locations behind walls it seems...

      That's something I suppose, but what about players partly behind walls?

      Players not in the viewport should also be culled of course.

      but the problem is, the client still needs to know where footstep sounds are coming from, and some cheats actually take advantage of this and show the footsteps through the walls

      This one can be dealt with by trasmitting two amplitudes (one for each ear) instead of the position or direction/distance of each footstep. A cheating client could still be able to do some kind of ambiguous visual reconstruction, but it would look ugly and it wouldn't necessarily be better than what you get via your ears. Or, hmm, you could look at the cheat as a feature that enables someone who's deaf to compete fairly.

      --
      Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
  39. My favourite kind of cheat... by Dthoma · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ...well, assuming I were a cheater. Which I'm not. Really. But anyway...

    I'm a big fan of the cheat which allows you to tweak its effect. There's an example given of a BF:1942 cheat which will double your fire rate and driving speed. This suggests something interesting; the incremental cheat. Just use the cheat to up your fire rate and driving speed by 5% to start with. If no one responds; up it a bit more, and more, until someone starts calling you a cheater. Then you can turn it back down and then tell them that they're making false accusations, whilst still having perhaps a 20% advantage over other players.

    --

    Note to M1-ers: a curt but otherwise insightful message is not "Flamebait" or "Troll".

    1. Re:My favourite kind of cheat... by swb · · Score: 1

      I could swear there was a cheat similar to this in MOHAA. It allowed the cheater not infinite but a lot more than 100 hit points. They'd die if you hit them enough, and if they weren't using any other cheats its hard to detect as you have to nail them with a couple of grenades at close range just to notice; otherwise up close melees seem to be just a case of not-fast-enough reaction on your part.

    2. Re:My favourite kind of cheat... by saifatlast · · Score: 1

      As a cheater, I can say honestly that that is a very effective way of cheating. If no one notices, no one cares. But I cheat to piss people off, not to win the game, so it's no fun that way.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't regist
  40. Good point: Cheating == Spam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Cheating is stealing. Similar to Spam.
    Why do people cheat? Because they like stealing.
    There is currently no real protection against dishonest players.
    The only real solution is to play with people you trust.
    Sure cheaters are stealing, and are therefor degrading themselves and diminishing their ability to live a real life.
    But that is no relief to the players who are cheated.
    The group that provides a secure client for playing Q3 will become wealthy.

  41. hooks = cheats? by FryGuy1013 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Not all client hooks are cheat programs though. There are a few good examples of non-cheat hooks like sparky's utils for Team Fortress Classic.

    Also, opengl wrappers/hooks can do more than just remove walls. They generally can also sniff the memory structures from the game client and do most of the stuff client hooks can do as well, whereas the article seems to think they can only remove walls.

    --
    bananas like monkeys.
  42. Not true by jman360 · · Score: 1

    Take a look at the security area. Before RSA style encryption (using public keys to encrypt and private keys to decryt information. Practically unbreakable!), one of the best ways of keeping your encryption method secure was to keep the source closed - so people couldn't see what technique you were using and come up with a way to beat it. If the source was opened up, at first people would cheat the living hell out of it, but then other gifted and inspired coders would come up with really secure code.

    And, besides, what currently popular game would any company release their source for? It took years for the doom and quake source to come out, and the only ones playing quakeworld anymore are people who just refuse to let it go.

  43. If cheating is so rampant ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    then am I better than I think I am. When a new FPS demo/game comes out I am always at or near the top of the score list, then as the game "matures" I find myself averaging in the 3rd to middle spots. I don't know you can spot a cheater other than the blatent aimbot frag from across a map?

  44. Minesweeper by spinlocked · · Score: 2, Informative

    I've heard rumors of touch-screens being used to make headshots.

    As a recovering minesweeper addict, a habit I picked up before I discovered UNIX during the windows 3.11 days - and no, GNOME mines won't cut it, I'm starting to twitch.

    I already have a pretty good best score (76 on expert, though these days I have trouble getting below 100), a touchscreen coupled with a keyboard binding for both mouse buttons, would be a distinctly unfair advantage! Hmm. :)

    --
    # init 5
    Connection closed.


    Oh... ...bugger.
    1. Re:Minesweeper by Eberlin · · Score: 1

      Ah, but in GNOME Mines, you can alter it so that it displays "Somebody set up us the bomb" before a game starts. Can't do that with minesweeper.

      Behold the power of open source!!!

      Imagine a multi-player minesweeper --I can almost hear the screaming "nooooooo, not there, you idiot!!! The square above it said 3, the one to the right said 2 -- so WTF were you thinking?" (l33tZi114 tags lartbait's toe)

    2. Re:Minesweeper by Dylan+Zimmerman · · Score: 1

      My dad can get the easy game within 7 seconds. He only takes about 45 to do the hardest.

      I really don't see how a digitizer on your screen could be used to make headshots. I mean, how does that work? You would have to have the mouse movements calibrated rather precisely, and even then, you would only be able to shoot people in a ring around the center of your screen. That and it would only work with a real touchscreen, not a Wacom style screen.

      Of course, I don't really need to know because in the only game I play, I can make headshots almost across the map with no zoom. And, no, I don't use any sort of auto-aim.

    3. Re:Minesweeper by localghost · · Score: 1

      I haven't played GNOME mines, but KDE mines is very similar to Windows. It's even got the yellow happy face and everything. Plus there's an online high score list. I suspect cheating, though, because I don't see how 5 seconds on expert is possible.

    4. Re:Minesweeper by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He only takes about 45 to do the hardest.

      I strongly suspect you're talking out of your arse

    5. Re:Minesweeper by haystor · · Score: 1

      LMAO!

      This would be too funny. I've got to see something like this.

      Here google, google, google.

      Yikes!

      --
      t
    6. Re:Minesweeper by Jesse9 · · Score: 1

      Crap, my best on Expert is 51. I've never been able to get under that. On the other hand, my best on "beginner" is 2, and on "intermediate" a quite-respectable 17. I'm just glad to know there are other people out there more addicted/good at this game than me.

  45. Another reason PC's gaming is dying. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hey, I'm sorry, I used to love computer games. But there is wayyy to much cheating - especially CS. It's ridiculous. I'd rather crack some beers and play some Halo with some buddies at home.

    1. Re:Another reason PC's gaming is dying. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      there's really almost no cheating in the quake 3 mods osp (orangesmoothie.com) and cpma (promode.org)(i've never seen a cheater in cpma, ever). everyone who plays is good, and none of the servers are filled with 15 year old kids.

  46. actually... i think by joeldg · · Score: 1

    They don't *really* cheat..
    they are simply 14 years old and spend all day online playing games and it jsut seems like they cheat..

    Thinking of the last time I went into the arcade and played against this little kid who walloped me in a game..

    *sigh*

  47. I think my cheat is ok ;-) by Hal+The+Computer · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The only cheat I use involes being able to empty an entire clip and not hit a thing.

    Thus, my favourite FPS becomes Team Fortress, Yay HWG.

    Seriously though, how much satisfaction can you get out of killing someone with an 'aimbot' and a wallhack. Personally i'm extatic (too lazy to check spelling, prob spelled wrong) when, in Couterstrike i have 1 kills and 12 deaths because hey, with pure luck i just killed the top player on the other team. Top that Mr. Cheat!

    --

    int main(void){int x=01232;while(malloc(x));return x;}
  48. UT2003 by LittleLebowskiUrbanA · · Score: 1

    I see a lot of invisible players on Unreal Tournament 2003. Annoying as hell. You can usually find them by firing blindly w/ the flak cannon :)

    1. Re:UT2003 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think you SEE invisible players. Fucking idiot.

    2. Re:UT2003 by l0ungeb0y · · Score: 1
      ermm... when you get adrenelin you can use your motion keys to chose a power up. Invisibility is one of those.


      Adrenalin
      You can get Adrenalin by picking up the red and white pills scattered throughout the levels, or by achieving kills. Once your Adrenalin reaches 100, you will be allowed to perform one of the following special moves, the effects of which will only last for a while:

      Speed - forward, forward, forward, forward
      Regen - back, back, back, back
      Invisibility - right, right, left, left
      Berserk - forward, forward, back, back


      Read more here: http://unrealtournament2003.pcgameszone.com/unreal tournament2003_tweak_guide_10.htm

    3. Re:UT2003 by LittleLebowskiUrbanA · · Score: 1

      I see their outline momentarily when I shoot them. Fucking jackass afraid to post w/ your username.

  49. Open source games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just imagine how much cheating there would be if most games were open source!

    Anybody could patch anything they wanted. Sudder...

    Open source games suck.

  50. Hear, hear. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I mean, what are FPS designers expecting? "Hey, let's let the client process where they can see and where they can shoot to save load for the server" "Mightn't that increase cheating?" "Who cares? We don't want server admins bitch, do we?" "Um."

  51. The Jokes on You by VividU · · Score: 1

    You talk as if you something.

    The Xbox Live service is a cheat-free zone.

  52. OBVIOUS solution by HobophobE · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This seems quite easy to me...I play CS, I play FPSs, etc...and the simple and reliable solution that works for things like /dogmode (read godmode), etc. is ADD THEM to the game. Let these kids have their wall hacks, their aimbots, their stupid lameness...build it in, and let server admins turn them off. If you go to Gamespy right now and look hard enough, you can find a server that invites and serves cheaters...so why not? Build the cheats in and let most the servers be free of cheats, while the people who "want to go weeee but ain't got drugs yet" can yack off to their 42448ness (or whatever the hip number of the CTIME is).

    Okay...obviously they could still create proxys and such that would try to let them cheat where they can't, as they do now...but I think this would honestly help deter the average guy who isn't creating proxies for the time and effort it takes to actually find a way to slip through the current protections...I hope.

    --

    -HobophobE
    Nothing laughs forever.
    1. Re:OBVIOUS solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you are missing the point. The cheaters want to dominate players who are at a disadvantage; not play against others who are using the same cheats.

      let most the servers be free of cheats
      How do you plan on doing that? People will develop cheats for these servers as well.

    2. Re:OBVIOUS solution by IICV · · Score: 2, Funny
      Jedi Knight II does this.

      People with admin priveleges can turn cheats on or off in their server. Indeed, there're a few cheats that only work in Multiplayer, such as the double-sided lightsabre.

      (Is it sabre or saber? I know one is British or something and the other is American. I use sabre becuase it looks cooler.)

    3. Re:OBVIOUS solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      British (etc.) - sabre
      US - saber

      Lucas invented the word 'lightsaber' so arguably it should be called that.

    4. Re:OBVIOUS solution by WWWWolf · · Score: 1
      I play CS, I play FPSs, etc...and the simple and reliable solution that works for things like /dogmode (read godmode), etc. is ADD THEM to the game.

      I love the way this is done in Neverwinter Nights. You have the Toolset, with which it's trivial to create mods that have powerful custom items and modules for levelling up the character. This is a cheater's heaven. There are also tools to change character stats, which obviously pleases the "cheaters" even more. But then again, it's possible, on server, to restrict item levels and enforce legal characters. Or even ban local characters completely and use server vault.

      This way it's as easy to run a honest server where everyone plays fair, and just as easy to run a "Diablo II is for wussies" server for a rousing game of 20 level char PvP with swords that do 1d(1e26) damage. =) And you can probably find both from GameSpy. Especially the latter type. =)

  53. Re:actually... i think by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    NO. While there ARE godlike teenagers out there, the majority is worse at the game than me. So they resort to cheats. The key thing is a) the level of morality they've got and b) what they think they can get away with. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Let's face it, people are not good. Literally everyone has his/her flaws, his/her dirty secrets. I never cheated in my life and the thought of cheating is completely anathema to me, yet there are lots of areas (illegal divx/mp3s for example) where I am just a dirt down evil low life like everyone else. Just learn to accept it : people are a lot more evil then you think. You just can't see them all the time so you think they're pretty nice, based on whatever part of their life you can see. If you insist on believing people are basically good, you're going to get rude wake up calls, day after day, year after year, the rest of your pathetic life on this rock. Let's face it. You're evil too. Just like the rest of us. Welcome to the club. Entrance fee is your soul.

  54. admin rights. by jericho4.0 · · Score: 4, Interesting
    In my UT days, on a large instagib map, I could reguraly walk away with 50 kills, 0 deaths. This get one accused of cheating a lot. In the year that I was playing several hours a day, I only ever saw 3 or 4 cheaters, and they were obvious.

    IFAIC, the only possible way to spot a cheater is by spectating. Ignore how fast his reflexes are, and look at his strategy. Does he do a route that runs by all the pickups? Does he look behind himself a lot? Does he play smart? Then he's probably not cheating.

    To get a cheat free server, admins should find players that visit a lot and arn't jerks and give them admin rights. Simple.

    --
    "A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming, is not worth knowing" - Alan Perlis
    1. Re:admin rights. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does he do a route that runs by all the pickups?
      No.
      Does he look behind himself a lot?
      Nope.
      Does he play smart?
      Not even.
      Then he's probably not cheating.
      Oh, ok. Thanks for clearing that up!

  55. New Games, Old Attitudes.. by evilcyber · · Score: 3, Informative

    This has already played out before..
    Who remembers Netrek?
    There were several clients to choose from to play the game. The trick? On major servers, you just had to use a blessed binary. Special permission to use RSA, and have developers responsible massivly cut down on ``borgs''.
    If a developer was found to be producing clients that cheat, his key was yanked from the master server that all the game servers fed off of, and it revoked every client in the field.
    Go Team Beer!

  56. Re:WHO'S IN THA HOUSE? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    hahaha, that's so funny. you made my day.

  57. FP!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Eat it you non-first posters! I have the first post - I took it away from you. You'll never be able to have the first post. You are all ridiculous loony birds.

  58. Is radar cheating? And what to do about it... by daemonc · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I play a MMORPG called Dark Age of Camelot (DAoC). A major part of DAoC consists of realm vs. realm combat, where players from opposing realms clash in epic battles (a.k.a. lag fests). There is one well known form of cheating in DAoC, known as radar, which allows the radar user to see the positions of enemy forces in realtime before he can be seen himself.

    The most popular radar program for DAoC is Excalibur, hosted by your very own Sourceforge. The troubling thing about Excalibur is that it does not fit any of the definitions of cheating, although it clearly gives players using it an unfair advantage. It does not modify the game binaries, or modify memory areas or graphical output when running. It does not interfere with or modify data streams between the client and server. In fact, it doesn't even run on the same computer you play the game on. Excalibur runs on a Linux / *nix computer on your local network, and works by passively sniffing packets, decoding them, and constructing a detailed overhead map of the player's surrounding area. Thus it is, and always will be, undetectable whether someone is using radar or not.

    It really is a rather clever hack, but it's ruining the game for us honest players. (And no, I have never ran Excalibur, even to try it out.) The question is what can be done about? It would seem that the only two options are:
    1.) Encrypt every packet sent between the server and client, which would undoubtably slow everything down.
    2.) Send less information to the client, by implementing some kind of server-side clipping, whereby the server determines what objects are visible to each client and sends only those. Again, this would slow everything down, on the server side because it requires more work, and on the client side because when the player suddenly encounters the enemy horde, his computer will be forced to load hundreds of character models all at once.

    So, any other suggestions?

    --
    All that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream.
    1. Re:Is radar cheating? And what to do about it... by mrmag00 · · Score: 1

      daoc already encrypts everything, the problem is the encryption simply sucks. If the client can decode it, 99% chance the 3rd party app can too.

      a smart person will never get caught using it tho, that is true.

    2. Re:Is radar cheating? And what to do about it... by Zebbers · · Score: 1

      daoc is the only thing i miss about going windows free. none of the other mmorpgs match it, period.

    3. Re:Is radar cheating? And what to do about it... by j7953 · · Score: 1
      Again, this would slow everything down, [...] on the client side because when the player suddenly encounters the enemy horde, his computer will be forced to load hundreds of character models all at once.

      That's an easy to solve problem, the server could simply send out an "advisory message" to the client indicating which character models the player should load because they might soon become visible. The positions of the actual characters would however only be submitted when they actually are in sight.

      Obviously this would still allow a mild form of cheating as the player might display those messages, thus receiving information such as "you are close to [some kind of enemy]". However, the player would not know how many enemies there are (there might be several enemies with the same character model) and where exactly they are.

      Unfortunately I don't have a solution for the other problem (the server having to calculate the line of sight for every player all the time).

      --
      Sig (appended to the end of comments I post, 54 chars)
    4. Re:Is radar cheating? And what to do about it... by rainwalker · · Score: 2, Informative

      Those people who use radar cheats (such as Excalubur or Odin's Eye) have to be very careful, because Mythic actively trolls for them. If you are out PvE'ing (killing 'monsters' for experience), they will have invisible, high level monsters that show up as some highly desirable kill (either for experience or good item drops). If you run around chasing an invisible monster that noone else can see or even tell exists, it's a pretty good bet that you are going to get your ass banned. They do the same thing with invisible enemy players. If you chase around a person (or group) that normal people can't see, it tends to incur the wrath of CSR's. From what I'm told, this works fairly well at keeping the population of cheaters down.

    5. Re:Is radar cheating? And what to do about it... by haystor · · Score: 1

      My idea to solve this problem is for the developers to create a character with a cheat such that the character can run on the underside of the ground. In all other respects this would be a normal character. Obviously, this would only be for use by the customer service people when trying to flush out a suspected cheat. You could run along the ground near the cheater and if he follows you he's caught.

      --
      t
  59. Tech advantages by Crazy+Eight · · Score: 2, Insightful

    A low ping is the first advantage one can have, but any tech edge is destroyed by the way game makers have to include the Rocket/Bazooka type weaponry that appeals to youngsters.

    1. Re:Tech advantages by Jonner · · Score: 1

      Play a halfway realistic game like DOD, then. Like various other decent multiplayer games, it started as an independent, non-commercial project. I can say from experience that running around with a rocket weapon in that game does not give one an advantage over a rifleman. The rockets are for destroying tanks and blowing holes in walls, and carrying one around makes one very vulnerable. Ability to aim, maneuver using cover, master your weapon, and support your teammates are the vital skills.

  60. Cheaters Ruined battle.net by rossz · · Score: 1

    I stopped playing diablo2x on battle.net because of the cheaters. It was no fun. We created our own private realm (using bnetd) to have a cheat free environment. An added side benefit was our ability to implement our own game mods. I'll never go back to battle.net. Also, I won't ever again buy a Blizzard game because of their lawsuit against the bnetd project. They lost a good customer (not that they care).

    --
    -- Will program for bandwidth
  61. Re:WHO'S IN THA HOUSE? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I sure did.

  62. unlikely by SHEENmaster · · Score: 1

    do you have a mouse and k/b for your x-box? I doubt I could survive w/out the precision of a mouse or the reactions of a keyboard.

    I tried once, and broke the stick of a joystick from trying to move "that much faster". A grove was well worn into the front bumber as well.

    --
    You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
    1. Re:unlikely by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thats because you are stupid and TRY to push too hard. Idiot.

      But yeah, I agree. Controller + FPS games = Pointless.

      OTOH I dont see why these fucking consoles dont come with keyboard and mouse AND a controller. Well i do, actually. You are meant to play on a fucking Television.

      Fuck that shit.

    2. Re:unlikely by blowdart · · Score: 1

      No mouse, no keyboard. I find the analog stick works quite nicely. However I never did use a mouse when I was on the PC.

  63. Security through obscurity? by Thinkit3 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Seems to be what you're saying. It's pretty well known that doesn't work. And assuming the source does open, it'd be much easier to cheat than to prevent it.

    --
    -Libertarian secular transhumanist
  64. Visual Enhancement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If cheating is any form of changing a game, then I am guilty as charged. I have modified the skins in a game where the two teams have characters that look very, very similar. The teams now have some kind of identifying mark.

    However, the picture in your minds right now might change when I tell you that I am significantly visually impared. I make sure that my skins would not allow me to see anything any normal person wouldn't be able to see, it just allows me to avoid killing my own teammates.

    If you consider this to be wrong, tell me why you think that.

  65. If you're good enough, it doesn't matter. by An+Ominous+Coward · · Score: 1

    Since I was willing to put my gaming WAY ahead of my studying, I got REALLY good at QuakeII, Tribes, Tribes 2, and recently UT2003. I was CONSTANTLY accused of cheating in Q2 and T1. But more than that, I never had a problem getting first place even when other people were using the most blatant aimbots.

    Also, I've never had problems finding public servers with no cheaters. Maybe I just never noticed them, but I don't think cheating is the massive plague that makes public multiplayer games impossible to enjoy. 75% of the "problem" is probably just people whining when they get killed.

  66. Waiver by irokitt · · Score: 2, Funny
    I realize that, if I cheat at the event above specified, I will have unspeakably brutal acts performed against myself, my box, and anyone/thing that gets in the "moderator"'s way. I understand that this violence may include baseball bats, flammable liquids, poisonous reptiles, or being forced to listen to the Backstreet Boys for potentially long periods of time. I further understand that I will have no legal recourse, because life's a bitch.
    Maybe I should let a lawyer look this over before making people sign it...
    --
    If my answers frighten you, stop asking scary questions.
  67. Cheating Death - anticheat for HL by AmVidia+HQ · · Score: 2, Informative
    Cheating-Death (C-D) is an anti-cheat system which includes both a server and client. Unlike HLGuard, which is a server-side only anti-cheat, C-D offers more protection by blocking the cheats themselves before the player joins the server.

    While in optional mode, players are checked for a running C-D client and will rename the player if they don't have C-D currently installed and running. For optimal protection against cheaters, servers can be configured to only allow players running the C-D client.

    Unfortunately, the C-D anti-cheat system is incompatible with VAC secured MODs. As of v2.2.0, C-D can work with VAC supported MODs as long as VAC is disabled. Otherwise, C-D will shutdown if VAC is detected.

    --
    VIVA1023.com | Political Fashion.
  68. Dear God... by ffatTony · · Score: 5, Funny

    Ok, ok, I promise never to cheat in multiplayer games again, just for love of god change the color scheme on this page.

  69. I'm not cheating! by Graspee_Leemoor · · Score: 1

    ...I'm just bot-camping the sewer system.

    graspee

  70. They are wrong! by chill · · Score: 1

    I don't care WHAT the article says, chocolate is NOT bad for you!

    --
    Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
  71. Take a queue from Cory Doctorow by chaffed · · Score: 1

    We could use a system to "rate" where players stand in the global community of online, multiplayer games.
    Cheater's would sift to the bottom like trolls on slashdot.
    Fragged teammember || NO WOOFIE FOR YOU!

    --
    What could possibly go wrong?
  72. surprised... by phunhippy · · Score: 1

    surprised no one has mentioned 640x480 resolution cheat(ok not really)... yeah in CS its not hacking... but after playing in 1024x or larger for a while go back to 640x480 and see how LARGE everything is

  73. Baysean Filtering? by stomv · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Seems statistical analysis could find cheaters, the same way Baysean Filtering finds spam. It doesn't look for particular known signs (Viagra or a .dll mod); it analysizes trends in general.

    If an auto-shoot aimbot is used, the time between when the enemy is on the perp's screen and the time the gun is shot should be nearly constant -- by screen I mean either entire screen or some radius of the pointer. If it's a human making the decision, that time would have a wider distribution with a larger variance.

    For auto-aim but no shoot, take notice of when the pointer moves across the screen rapidly. Yes, there'd be type I and II errors (both not catching all auto-aims and recording simple things like turning around), but with enough analysis, it might be doable. Further analysis could be done on mouse movements prior to headshots. If a significant number of headshots (or killshots in general) came immediately following a rapid mouse movement, than an aimbot is rather statistically likely.

    For wallhacks, consider a graph that connects all hallways to other hallways... if a player is consistently converging on enemies out of view, ie the shortest distance between the two players is constant or decreasing, statistically speaking, a wallhack is likely.

    Of course, for all of these, the confidence intervals could be set arbitrarily close to unity -- and so it would give server admins the ability to risk overall Type I or II errors. This insures against being lucky some of the time, or doing the logical or rational thing in certain situations.

    While cheating could overcome these methods by introducing errors (intentionally miss sometimes, walk around randomly some of the time, etc.), it would reduce the impact the cheater would have on the game, thereby making it less interesting for the cheater... perhaps to the point of not worth his while.

    1. Re:Baysean Filtering? by Jardine · · Score: 1

      There is an anti-cheat program out there for counterstrike that detects when a person's aim is too good. I believe it checks the amount of time you spend with your gun aimed at other players vs time spent aimed away from players. If your aim is too good, it warns you and everyone else in the game.

      The problem is that some players who don't use aimbots are good enough that it sets off the alarm for really good players. How do you tell the difference between those who are cheating and those who are just that good?

      In spectator mode, a lot of cheaters are pretty easy to catch, but who wants to spend their time spectating when they could be playing?

    2. Re:Baysean Filtering? by IICV · · Score: 1
      This would work best if there was an admin paying attention, to make the final decision on borderline cases.

      Unfortunately, pretty much all cheaters could be eradicated if there was an admin paying attention. What servers really need to be cheat free is to have a high admin/player ratio, which is generally undoable due to lack of trust between people who haven't met in real life.

      Essentially, we're going to be cursed with cheaters until more people are trustworthy and unlikely to abuse their powers. This will happen as soon as George W. Bush stops looking like a monkey.

    3. Re:Baysean Filtering? by MasterOfMagic · · Score: 1

      It doesn't look for particular known signs (Viagra or a .dll mod); it analysizes trends in general.

      If you need to take Viagra before playing online, methinks you have bigger problems.

  74. A non-cheat that's easy to fix: by stomv · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Templates. I play America's Army, and on some stages one can shoot a 203 (rocket launcher) into a window that is obstructed by some intermediate object. Blindly firing into a window that the enemy is likely to be inside due to its strategic importance from the other side of the map -- blindly -- clearly detracts from the game.

    The easy fix: introduce random errors in the map draw. Make the location of trees in an area a function of a random distriubtion. Make hallways marginally shorter, longer, wider, or narrower, in an effort to prevent people from using natural markings as methods of aiming (ie put your thumb three pixels below the lowest tree leaf to throw the grenade into the hole in the ground from maximum possible distance away).

    It's not a cheat (no modifications, etc) but it clearly is in conflict with the spirit of the game. Game developers -- fix this!

    1. Re:A non-cheat that's easy to fix: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Blindly firing into a window that the enemy is likely to be inside due to its strategic importance from the other side of the map -- blindly -- clearly detracts from the game.

      I've never played AA, but it seems to me that blindly assaulting a location that is of strategic importance is EXACTLY SOMETHING A REAL ARMY WOULD DO.

      How does this distract from the 'spirit of the game'? Seems to me that such a thing is absolutely dead on the spirit of the game.

    2. Re:A non-cheat that's easy to fix: by stomv · · Score: 1

      If the weapon had a large impact area, and the target was a reasonably sized area and not a postage stamp, yes. But in this case, I'm really referring to a situation where

      (i) The army doesn't know the target's there (yet), and
      (ii) We're not talking about striking a general area of strategic interest, we're talking about shooting a grenade from a launcher into a 2' x 3' window, over a long distance, over a barrier, and all without being able to see the target.

      If you could see the target, it would be a difficult but certainly possible shot. Blind, it'd be near impossible.

      This "lack-of-random-bug" also includes things like having a favorite tree to hide behind if an open area, or knowing that the enemy couldn't possibly reach you until you turn a particular corner because you know the distance away at spawn. A bit of randomness in the placement and size of certain objects and lengths would reduce the knowledge about key artifacts from a probability of 1 to a probability distribution -- and so shooting for that window would likely result in you hitting the wall near the window. Having a favorite tree is right out; perhaps your favorite strategic area has a good tree there, but you won't know in advance; you have to go look. You don't know if the enemy's fastest possible advance is around that corner; his first possible appearance is somewhere within a 15' or 20' range of a hallway.

      These random units serve to take away advantages from repetitive playing and memorization -- and therefore reward the best players, not those that play in tourrettes-like fashion.

    3. Re:A non-cheat that's easy to fix: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hahaha... Look, I'm a mapper. I don't think you have any idea what it takes to make a level. It would be nearly impossible to make a level that has all that "randomness" in it. Think about this, if there is a hallway connecting two areas, you can not make it shorter without either introducing gaps or moving the rest of the map with it. You can have random objects move across the screen, like birds or something, but other than that, there is not a whole lot of other randomness you can put in.

    4. Re:A non-cheat that's easy to fix: by Raptor+CK · · Score: 1

      I don't get the problem with this. If the military drops a bomb from a mile up on a potentially strategically important location, are they cheating?

      If it's important enough to continuously bomb into rubble, then do it. That's just how wars are fought. Now, if there's a glitch in the game that's letting you fire the rocket through what should be solid matter, that's a different story altogether.

      --
      Raptor
      "Procrastination is great. It gives me a lot more time to do things that I'm never going to do."
  75. Or just play against bots... by spinlocked · · Score: 1

    I love infiltration but I hate playing against humans (they're all better than me, sob). I get a huge amount of enjoyment from playing against the bots, even though they're fairly predictable. I recommend the 'Chasm' map - I can play that for hours on end, with and without the various mutators.

    --
    # init 5
    Connection closed.


    Oh... ...bugger.
  76. Re:Where's the fun at? horses mouth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I always cheat when I play video games. If I don't cheat I team kill.

    It is so fun to watch people get mad and angry. The players when I team kill get really pissed off, and this just fills me with joy. They have worthless lives if they care so much about video games, and I'm having fun being a bully. That fact that people put alot of work into servers and the game, and I can come along and distroy the whole thing and make all his work useless is very fun. They usually can't even kick me because I know a hack, a real hack, no script but and explot that I figured out involving that fact that an l and an I look the exact same in half-life.

  77. The Jeeves and Wooster solution by Henry+V+.009 · · Score: 1

    As Jeeves says, "consider the psychology of the individual." There is no technological fix. So is there a social fix? I think so. There are certainly a small minority of hardcore cheaters who will cheat no matter what, but there is a larger number of casual cheaters.

    The current generation of multiplayer games are highly anonymous, like the web itself. For casual cheaters, this anonymity lets them abstract the other players as non-entities. They don't interact together in a socially meaningful way, and therefore things like empathy and reputation which inhibit destructive behavior in group settings don't function correctly. They are willing to hurt people online in ways they would never think of at a real life social get-together

    While anonymous multiplayer games will always have their place, I think that less anonymous, more locally social games will alleviate many of the current problems. They will even provide new possibilities for games. Imagine a Quake III dating server, for example (with custom skins, of course). To allow for more realistic social interaction, this new generation of games will require people to give up anonymity in certain ways and probably interact with far smaller groups. The groups don't have to be geographically local, necessarily, but will have to be at least somewhat consistent over time.

    The pitiful things that pass for modern 'online communities' can and will be vastly improved upon.

  78. I get accused all the time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I actually began cheating at Counter-Strike because I WAS CONSTANTLY ACCUSED OF CHEATING. I'm a very skilled CS player and can't play anywhere without getting accused, even when I'm not. Bunch of whiners.

  79. It's not just part of the problem... by skywire · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It's ALL of the problem. The only way to eliminate cheating is to rigidly follow two simple cardinal rules:

    1. Place no reliance on the trustworthiness of players.

    2. Place no reliance on the ignorance of players of any fact.

    To adhere to these rules while ensuring fairness to all players will require that you:

    1. Design the client-server interface such that no more information is provided to a client than you want any client and/or player to be aware of and take advantage of, including storing information for later recall.

    2. Make the interface bullet-proof. No buffer overruns, etc.

    3. Publish the complete interface definition. Hold back nothing.

    4. Publicly announce and adhere to the policy that any and all clients are legal.

    That leaves the really hard problem, one that will require great creativity and skill: designing an interface and gameworld mechanics that will prevent robots from playing better than human beings.

    --
    Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
    1. Re:It's not just part of the problem... by Minna+Kirai · · Score: 2, Funny

      gameworld mechanics that will prevent robots from playing better than human beings.

      Oh! Oh! I've got one!

      Chess!

      And how about... Go?

    2. Re:It's not just part of the problem... by TheLink · · Score: 1

      You won't eliminate cheating that way.

      The only way to eliminate cheating is to only play with people who don't cheat.

      What you're suggesting is making it harder. That can be useful, but people must remember that does NOT eliminate cheating, it just makes it harder.

      Gameworld mechanics that prevent robots from playing better than humans? That does limit the sort of games you can offer.

      Heck even chat servers have their plague of antisocial idiots.

      --
    3. Re:It's not just part of the problem... by Tycho · · Score: 1

      Here is another idea, what if mods could be tokenized and signed? The signing could be done by the publisher or some other trusted group. Servers could then allow signed mods or unsigned mods to be run. Servers should also be able to deny the use of certain signed mods. The server should also allow the use of certain unsigned mods too. Aimbots and other mods that would allow cheating should never be signed. However if cheat mods did somehow become signed, these mods could be denyed on a case by case basis by the server.

      --
      Impersonating Tycho from Penny Arcade since before there was a PA.
  80. MOD UP!! THIS IS CORRECT!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    this guy is spot on

  81. I admit, I am terrible by fudgefactor7 · · Score: 1

    I play poorly, in general terms am possessed of "suckage." But I don't cheat. What I do when my ass is being handed to me is find a server with less qualified and capable players. Usually I can find a group with skill levels similar to mine. Then we play--it's great...until the lamer cheater shows up (or the guy who's like god with a railgun.) Then I go find another server. I only wish there were a way to measure someone's ability beforehand and lock them out (for non-cheaters). UT tries this, but it really was subjective, anyway I never liked its ranking system that much. Gaming shouldn't be subjected to assholes, in the end I have to blame the creators of the game for not making tight code.

  82. Cheats only make you weaker by headbulb · · Score: 1

    I have always found that when you cheat, you become weaker. So the person that goes againsn't the cheater becomes better since he/she has to fight harder to win, while the cheater doesn't have to work as hard to win.. So the cheaters are only harming themselves, but they still are annoying.

  83. CS Cheats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Try em out yourself... get them here.

  84. Maybe Gates is right? by theroterts · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Cheating in Multiplayer online games is one of the reasons why I rarely play against people I don't know.

    I'm sure there will be those who disagree, but maybe Microsoft is on to something when they started Xbox Live. I've yet to come across someone who is cheating. The playing field is level and you know that those who beat you did so simply because they were better and not because they installed some hack.

    --
    ?SYNTAX ERROR IN SIG

    READY.
  85. social engineering cheat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My favourite thing to do in QIII:

    I name myself "Low Ammo Warning" - when my oppontents mouse over me with the crosshairs, my name pops up on their screen. It usually throws them off just for a second or just for the first time, but it gives me a slight advantage when they hesitate :)

    RM

  86. Until you find out by BoomerSooner · · Score: 1

    He plays for the football team as well. Oh wait, this is Purdue we're talking about. Nevermind, you're right.

    (lol, j/k)

  87. Tom's Hardware is known for their sound advice by MoreDruid · · Score: 1
    ...for those with little tolerance, unplug his /her PC from the power source and throw it out the nearest window.
    hmmm... If Tom's Hardware says so, it must be all good =)
    --
    The best weapon of a dictatorship is secrecy, but the best weapon of a democracy should be the weapon of openness.
  88. Not if the game's designed properly. by Dthoma · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If the game's designed properly all the important and sensitive stuff is done server-side so that patching your client won't have any effect. This would put more load on the server since it would probably have to do quite a bit more processing, but it would eliminate cheating if all the client did was send keystrokes to the server, which processed everything else. Then only the server admin could enable cheating.

    --

    Note to M1-ers: a curt but otherwise insightful message is not "Flamebait" or "Troll".

  89. Proxies by pod · · Score: 1

    The article missed the most important and difficult to detect cheat method: proxy.

    The gamer connects to a game server through a proxy he controls. This proxy will be able to snoop and modify the data stream on the wire. If you decode the network protocol, and can gain all kinds of advantages; sometimes valuable data may be sent that even your client ignores completely. Wall hacks and autoaimers can be based on these methods. If you see a shot event, modify it with a vecor to the nearest enemy model.

    A less robust cheat of the proxy variety employs a simple sniffer to watch the traffic.

    --
    "Hot lesbian witches! It's fucking genius!"
  90. How about a HoneyPot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Why not make a server that acts like a honeypot for cheaters. Have the server silently detect the cheaters, and send them all to the same map, while the non-cheaters play on another map. Let the cheaters fight themselves!

  91. X-box live by August_zero · · Score: 1

    As the article says, cheating is deadly on two fronts: It ruins the game when some punk hops in and wins only because he has a cheat running, and people will get accused of cheating by sore losers.

    While the subject of modding X-boxes is a touchy one, I for one am glad that Microsoft bans anyone that mods their x-box or knowingly cheats on line. Bang, kiss your $50 x-box live membership goodbye. I think that if they keep an aggressive stance on these sorts of things, they wil be able to keep a lot of the cheating to a minimum. While most people would say that they are not Modding their x-boxes for any shady reasons, the truth is that a lot of people like to cheat and when I am paying to play a game online, I am not willing to put up with people cheating.

    --
    On Wall Street they say "buy low, sell high" On the pad we say, "buy high, sell high" Isn't that somehow better?
  92. Re:Where's the fun at? horses mouth by Clover_Kicker · · Score: 1

    >I always cheat when I play video games. If I don't cheat I team kill.

    >It is so fun to watch people get mad and angry. The players when I
    >team kill get really pissed off, and this just fills me with joy. They
    >have worthless lives if they care so much about video games, and I'm
    >having fun being a bully. That fact that people put alot of work into
    >servers and the game, and I can come along and distroy the whole thing
    >and make all his work useless is very fun. They usually can't even
    >kick me because I know a hack, a real hack, no script but and explot
    >that I figured out involving that fact that an l and an I look the
    >exact same in half-life.

    I don't know how to mod this: it's complete flamebait, but at the same time an insightful glimpse into someone's mind.

    I've lost a couple of SAN points after my glimpse inside the mind of this juvenile fucktard, but I guess you can't win 'em all.

  93. It gets worse as the games get bigger by Crashmarik · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I had the honor of participating in the beta of MPBT 3025. It was both an eyeopener and lesson in the problems of online gaming.

    For those not in the know MPBT 3025 hnceforth BT, was an online version of the battletech boardgames. You have a space faring civilization that has fallen from its golden age. There is much lost technique and technology. Not the least of which is the political organization that allowed all those people to live together. The game was organized along the lines of the 5 major successor states. It consisted of the successor states battling for control of the known universe. The States or Teams had at various times upwards of 3k players and intense rivalries.

    The game had a long history having been out and in development for over 10 years. The latest version having been do real soon for nearly 8 years. I am not certain but I believe it was the complete inability to resolve community issues related to the various forms of cheating that first killed interest in the game by players and finally caused EA its last owner to kill the project.

    Imagine quake capture the flag with 5 sides and 2 to 4 thousand players a side. Now imagine "responsible players" being tasked with controlling the behavior of their teams, and having nothing but the power of persuasion to do so. This was the community of MPBT 3025.

    Needless to say the game became every kind of a cesspool you can imagine. There wasn't just one level of cheating but multiple levels of cheating and betrayal. The base level was what The tom's article speaks of and is the most minor of cheating in online gaming. The hacking of the connection, game engine, weapon data files was something both obvious and by and large easy to deal with. The experienced players could spot the game behaving freakily and would ostracize the cheats or find ways to harrass them. It was something that was annoying but easily dealt with.

    The higher levels of cheating were most likely what did the game in. The next level involved multiple accounts, various point transfer schemes, and impersonation. This is where "Cheating" showed that violationg the social contract produces truly disgusting results. There is very little that can compare to participating in an online world, and finding yourself betrayed by people you felt were your friends. In other online games theres similar problems, i.e. people in multiple guilds, people in multiple nations in the smaller empire games. But, in bt, with 5 large nations and virtually no way to keep track you had betrayal as the purpose of the game. Almost all combat was team combat, and towards the end everything revolved around planting ringers.

    Cheating is bad, betrayal by supposed friends is a catastrophe for a game. I can't say this loudly enough, and it is something that will either limit the scope of online games or limit them to weird survivor/lord of the flies knockoffs.

    The final and worst form of cheating was, the players who volunteered as honorary staff to gain a leg up. As bad as regular betrayal this was worse. In my mind it was the last nail in the coffin for the game. Its, also the great lesson for all online games to come. Make certain that you have automated checks built in before the game even starts. That way, you can not only watch the players but watch the watchers.

    1. Re:It gets worse as the games get bigger by WWWWolf · · Score: 1
      Needless to say the game became every kind of a cesspool you can imagine. There wasn't just one level of cheating but multiple levels of cheating and betrayal.

      Oh! Me! Me! Let me tell you how it continued 5 years later. When the Inner Sphere fell into strife and tyranny, in 3050, a huge invader army, sons of exiles actually, came from an unknown direction. Calling themselves the Clans and proving their amazing skills of warfare, they caused great damage to the unprepared Spheroids with their disciplined battle tactics and advanced technology.

      Need I go on? =)

    2. Re:It gets worse as the games get bigger by Crashmarik · · Score: 1

      LOL

      Thanks for reminding me. One of the other things that killed the game was out of game gaming on the message boards. The board became a perpetual flame war that took a lot to get near them.

  94. Professor Joshua! by I-R-Baboon · · Score: 1

    How dare you hack a file to cheat at Global Thermal Nuclear Warfare!

    I don't take the matter too seriously, if I dont like what is happening on one server I will find another to play on. They are a dime a dozen, and any real broadband connection with decent bandwidth wont have any worries finding one. Sometimes people just have to be fucked up, so go where they aren't and do yourself a favor. I personally play games to have fun, not point fingers and get wrapped up in politics and all that garbage. If I wanted my fun to be ruined I would unlock my gameroom door and announce to the old lady that I am going to be playing video games for at least 5 hours.

    --
    -1 Overrated (Too many big words for me to comprehend)
    1. Re:Professor Joshua! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Off topic but thought you'd like to know. I read your post a while back about spammers and stuff. UPnetworks (a spam supporter) is going out of business. Word on the street is that a few of their engineers are starting up SFcolocation.com (an anti SPAM colo). Anti spam, I'll believe it when I see it.

  95. Gotta Communicate Re:More whiners than cheaters by SpikeSpiff · · Score: 4, Funny
    Communication among non-cheating players is important. One incredible shot is skill. 10 incredible shots in a minute is a cheater. Problem is, opponents only see the one shot. Talking about it helps sort out the skills from the cheaters.

    Best way to do it: call incredible shots - "nice shot sChmUcK sNiPP3r! Way to shoot me from behind you in the head while I was jumping from across the map through a crate!"

    --
    "All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
  96. You can't stop it, so rank it... by Macdude · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This only works on servers where the people have to sign up. When you sign-up are are giving a starting raking, say Rank:1. As you play the system keeps track of your success and if you're good enough ups your rank (i.e Rank:2). Then it only allows you to play against people of the same rank as yourself. So all the cheaters (Rank:17) get to play against all the other cheaters (and those rare individuals with God-like skills) and us non-cheaters can play against other non-cheaters (and really really lame cheaters). Everyone gets a challenging game and who cares who's cheating anymore...

    You could even start a game (as an example) at Rank:7 +/-2, then people who are Rank:5, 6, 7, 8 or 9 can join.

    --
    "Grab them by the pussy" -- President of the United States of America
    1. Re:You can't stop it, so rank it... by ShortSpecialBus · · Score: 1

      this works if and only if you allow one "profile" per CD key or something, which a lot of people aren't going to like, not to mention it will break the whole system if 3 people use the same CD key (say 3 brothers, for example)

      If you allow more than 1 profile per CD key, it falls apart because the cheater can have as many profiles at whatever level they got to at any given time, so it breaks down.

      I'm not explaining it very well I don't think, but I see lots of problems with this.

      --
      //FIXME: Bad .sig
  97. RPGs: The REAL problem by swordgeek · · Score: 2, Insightful

    While I enjoy FPSes as much as most, my passion lately has been role-playing games. Cheating in these games is much more of a problem because your characters are persistent, and permanently affected by cheats. Trade hacks, leveling hacks, and RvR hacks basically define what can be done in Dark Age of Camelot, and it bugs me. I've spent hundreds of hours crafting my way to 'legendary' status, and others that I know have used cheat programs are taking orders away from me and my characters!

    Unfortunately, there's a central authority--the game server admins--and they have to use their authority to stop this stuff. Sadly the policy for most persistent online games is "every player we boot off for cheating is a player who won't pay us money anymore."

    --

    "People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
  98. I don't bother anymore. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I used to waste my time trying to convince cheaters they're on the wrong path, cheating is evil etc.

    Unfortunately it was all to no avail. Many are old and educating them is hopeless; others are still young, maybe, but, as a father, I know from experience it's very hard to pass on moral values. Inside the game, this is even harder.

    Playing fair is a passing fad.

    Everybody talks about only playing at Lanhouses... I'm too busy for that. Internet playing is my only option. Or better, was.

    Everytime someone calls for a game to be ported for Linux, I ask myself: What for? I simply don't intend to buy any multiplayer games anymore. While I regret Loki's destiny, I can only blame people who make games for not acting responsibly -- at a very minimum!

    Maybe you can put gore, amputation, beheading, ambush, camping, blasphemy etc. into a game... but you can't go without assuring fair play, evenhandedness and respect for the loser.

    If game servers become more and more empty, as I have observed, and if this means the fading of the multiplayer genre -- it will be pity but well-deserved.

  99. I haven't noticed by dfj225 · · Score: 1

    Cheating is now close to destroying entire gaming communities (Counter-Strike anyone?)

    I normally play CS, DoD, and BF1942 online and I have not really noticed any cheating. I think that this quote is very much an exageration. I don't think cheating will destory anything. Cause headaches? Yes, but not destory anything.

    --
    SIGFAULT
    1. Re:I haven't noticed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't see much cheating in Counterstrike? Do you even PLAY online? I can't find a single server anymore that isn't crowded with either cheating assholes, whiney n00bs or just plain morons who have no idea what the fuck they're doing.

      '42 has the plane-campers, the team killers, skin hacks, aimbots, turbo hacks...UGH!

    2. Re:I haven't noticed by dfj225 · · Score: 1

      Well, I do play and I do see plenty of n00bs and assholes. However, I haven't even seen anyone and said, wow...that person must be cheating. Perhaps I have just been mistaking thinking that someone who had apparent skill gained that fairly. Whenever I'm dead, I usually watch the person with the highest score, and never have I seen anyone who was apparently cheating.

      --
      SIGFAULT
  100. Re:More whiners than cheatersloaded: by cap'n+foolsy · · Score: 1

    all too true - check out this pic. i'm [moron]baki. a couple of people from my gaming community, people whom i respect and generally think well of, tried to kick me because they thought i was cheating :( just because i was using a different nick from the one i usually use. cheating-death is already implemented on the servers, what's missing really is *trust*. if you can't trust the guy on the other team (or even your team) to be honorable and play fair, then we're never going to get anywhere with stopping cheating. people these days are just too good, too skilled. we'll end up finger-pointing at each other all day long.

    --
    It might look like I'm standing motionless, but I'm actively waiting for my problems to go away
  101. Re:Where's the fun at? horses mouth by NecrosisLabs · · Score: 1

    The worst part is, even if this is a troll, this is the way t/k'ers and their ilk think. What I think is really telling is that they think other people have "worthless lives if they care so much about video games." Well, what does it say about the quality of their lives if they don't even have the wherewithall to enjoy the game itself.

    That's why a well admin'd server is worth its weight in gold.

  102. Cheaters suck. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Cheaters are the reason I stopped playing PC games online. If it's not an aimbot it's a wall hack. If it's not a wall hack it's a skin hack, or a God hack, or god knows what. People hitting me from clear across the map with a weapon that's not even AVAILABLE on that map. People walking through walls and shooting me in the back of the head. Untouchable players who get hit with 5 rockets and are still at 100% health, who then blast you to pieces with a pistol.

    Online gaming brings out the absolute WORST in people. And now consoles are going online. I can hardly wait for the twinks that use Gamesharks or Action Replays to start using them online and screwing everyone over.

    Fucking cheater asshole motherfuckers.

  103. Now really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If by some chance that you could cheat in real-life I bet you that 99.9% would. This is just a logical extension of that.

  104. Server side Auditing. by Mulletproof · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Just curious, but how hard would it be to confirm the physics of most cheating server side? I mean, wall hack for instance. Couldn't one easily build in some sort of check and balance to see if the shot is possible or not? Same with the head shot deal. Create a routine that audits "outstanding" players. Axer05 just got his 4th strait head shot. Audit program cuts in and monitors him for a bit, judging whether the shots are even possible. I imagine such an audit program could judge a great number of attributes on specific players if they bring attention to themselves, or even at random.

    I specify one at a time as I imagine it'd take too much processing power to double check everybody, but the principle would be sound. No checking everybodies files, HD, whatever. Safe, non-intrusive and fairly difficult to spoof since the auditing relies on the server side mechanics, not the peer-hacked files.

    --
    You need a FREE iPod Nano
    1. Re:Server side Auditing. by irc.goatse.cx+troll · · Score: 1

      I'll assume you're refering to counterstrike, as thats mostly what this threads been turned into, but most of my arguments should hold true for all other games to.

      In counterstrike, All rifles peirce one wall (two walls with an AWP snifer rifle*). All wallhack shots are 'possible', the fact that you could see the wall is irrelvant. I shoot through walls all the time based on sound, seeing people run behind a box, and just general guessing. Headshots are also the most common kills once you learn to aim (I'm not trying to insult anyone here, but once you get good enough to get headshots on purpose rather than randomly, you get them pretty consistently. If you only aim for the head, you rarely get kills any other way).

      The idea is sound, but I'd rather it be fully passive, maybe allow admins to see a realtime calculation of your accuracy etc, just never let the server act on it itself.

      *:(disclaimer: random anecdote, nothing that follows is at all useful information. I'm bored.) The AWP peircing through two walls is best shown in the championship match between I believe zEx and WEW in the winter 2002 CPL finals. zEx| Sunman was trying to defuse the bomb, but win98 was being flakey so it wouldnt register the keypress, so he decieds to back off it, jump down a hallway and zoom.. he dosnt see anyone, he starts aiming back to walk to the bomb, randomly fires for no reason and gets a headshot on the last guy in WEW that was alive. gets an easy defuse, and wins the round. You can see this in the CS movie 'Electronic Warfare', or possibly 'Sunman Final'(I'm not sure, its been a while since I've seen that one). If anyone cant find them, contact me and I can give a link, I'd just rather not slashdot the poor servers.

      --
      Pain lasts, kid. Its how you know you're alive. Sometimes I think this growing up thing is just pain management-TheMaxx
  105. Indirect Fire by Maxwell'sSilverLART · · Score: 1

    If you could see the target, it would be a difficult but certainly possible shot. Blind, it'd be near impossible.

    It's called "indirect fire." Ask your friendly local Marine about it.

    But seriously, indirect fire is exactly what artillery guys do. Yes, sometimes it's direct (shooting at things you can see), but frequently it's indirect. Ever heard of a forward observer? That's the guy out looking at the target and giving directions to the fire team to guide the rounds onto the target. Today, with modern weaponry and fire computers, a surprising number of rounds hit on the first try. Yes, "blind fire" does work.

    --
    Moderate drunk! It's more fun that way!
    1. Re:Indirect Fire by stomv · · Score: 1

      I understand the concept of indirect fire. You misunderstand the concept of aiming for an area the size of a building or the size of a postage stamp.

      Indirectly firing onto an area, either with nearly linear-travelling balistics (bullets) or with arcing projectiles (grenades, small missiles, etc), result from the person shooting onto or into an area where enemies are suspected of either currently occupying, or would like to occupy.

      That's not what I'm talking about here. I'm talking about selecting a specific target that's 2% of the size of the area indirectly fired on, and nailing it with tremendous accuracy.

      It'd be like playing minigolf blindfolded, and nailing hole in one after hole in one. Somebody can report the terrain and the distance and angle to the hole, but if you can't see it, there's a good bit of guesswork. Now, for an appreciation of how unlikely these shots are, make the holes 40' long, not 8'.

      Indirect firing: you hit the ball toward where the hole is, based on reports, and guessing a bit on distance. If you're good, the ball stops 5 feet from the hole while evading the windmills blades or the Babe the Blue Ox's legs. That's completely reasonable, but not what's happening.
      Template firing: these minigolfers are shooting a score of 20 on a long 18 hole minigolf course, blindfolded. They can do that because they've played the course dozens or hundreds of times, and nothing changes. You'll note that marines don't run the same mission dozens or hundreds of times, memorizing the precise locations of targets 15 square feet in size from 800 yards away. If angles changed slightly, or distances slightly, or windows were moved and sized on a random basis (within bounds of bug-free gaming), they'd be reduced to indirect fire, and this gameplay bug would be rewarded, while rewarding those who play with intelligent tactics.

  106. I can. And I don't. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Or, at least, I try hard not to cheat.

    It's a way of life.

  107. Honeypots for cheaters - or cheating-based games. by sker · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Set up a lot gameservers with broken or nonexistant C-D.. maybe with some drone players that periodically go nuts in order to make the cheaters happy... suck the cheaters aware from the real games.

    Oh, and the other idea was to create more games where cheating is part of the game. I would think that games based on The Matrix should encourage "hax"... if you cant find the mod that makes you run fatser.. you lose. That'sthe point of the game.

    --
    nonsig. unsig. desig.
  108. YUO FAIL TEH C PROGRAMMING!!111 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    malloc()ing a humungous pile of memory (as you seem to be implying) wouldn't instantly cause a segfault. All it does is return NULL. Thusly, you fail it. Poohead.

  109. A simple solution? by UnixRevolution · · Score: 3, Interesting

    A simple solution, at least for FPS games, would be to have invisible bots in every server, that don't shoot, don't get in anyone's way, and don't pick up weapons, health, etc...

    This way regular players won't have any idea the invisibots are there. However, if a cheater should happen to have one in his field of view, his aimbot will take over and frag the poor unsuspecting invisibot.

    If a player frags an invisibot, they get kicked.

    It's not totally foolproof, but it seems to make sense. at least for aimbot cheats.

    --
    You like your new Mac more than you like me, don't you, Dave? Dave? I asked...She said Yes.
    1. Re:A simple solution? by GospelHead821 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There's a lot of lead flying around on an FPS. Should the invisibot happen to be in the crossfire of a battle, not only will it get in the way of people's shots, but it will then cause a legitimate player to get booted. You can make it so that people can move through them, but if they can be shot by cheaters (on purpose), they can be shot by legitimate players (on accident)

      --
      Virtue finds and chooses the mean.
      Aristotle, Ethica Nichomachea
    2. Re:A simple solution? by Quietust · · Score: 1

      There would also need to be some way to tell the legitimate client not to render the "invisibot"s. Any properly written cheat program would be able to just as easily remove them from the target list or, to make things worse, aim around them so they *never* hit them.

      --
      * Q
      P.S. If you don't get this note, let me know and I'll write you another.
    3. Re:A simple solution? by JazFresh · · Score: 1

      Nice idea, but it wouldn't work. If the server says to the client "here are 4 players in your field of view, but please don't draw the first 2" then the aimbot will know they're invisibots and disable aiming for them.

  110. I Swear! by methangel · · Score: 1

    It was the lag! I swear! You cheaters!

  111. Well, George W. Bush used the DaddyBot cheat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny



    "OMG [Supreme Court] HAX!!"

  112. descent by gTsiros · · Score: 1

    You're unlucky... if we lived in the same country we would throw some Descent 3 matches...but i don't think you live in greece :/

    --
    Looking for people to chat about multicopters, coding, music. skype: gtsiros
  113. Doubt it'll work. by TheLink · · Score: 2, Informative

    You forget most of these people cheat to:
    1) Break the rules.
    2) Annoy other people.

    In a server where cheats are allowed, it's hard for them to do 1 or 2 so they don't get any satisfaction.

    These are the sort of people who'd glue a soccer ball to their foot, and think they're being smart.

    --
  114. Most people miss an important point. by TheLink · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Multiplayer games are about playing with other people. People who cheat either don't comprehend the antisocialness of what they are doing or are arseholes.

    If enough people in the game think that doing something is cheating, unless you can convince them it's legit then it's cheating, even if it's allowed by the environment/server. Coz you're playing with them.

    For example if there are a bunch of people on a CS server and they had decided to play knife fights only even though the server allows other stuff, you're an ass if you ignore them and mow them down with machineguns. Of course if you just joined and they didn't say anything then you're excused for the first time. The point is you want to play with them, you play by the "agreed on" rules. You don't like it, try convincing them. Sure you could convince them that playing "knife only" is not a good idea by being an ass, but that leaves them also convinced that you're an ass.

    After all there are plenty of other servers for you to go. You might even be able to set up your own. But if no one wants to play with you and you have to go from server to server pissing people off, you're the one that has no life, not those who are "taking the game too seriously". After all, there are probably servers around which officially allow cheating (or set up your own), and if all the cheaters have to go to a "no cheats" server to cheat, that shows what sort of people they are.

    In many games there are lots of rules (e.g. golf, football etc). There are also lots of unwritten rules. Often when an unwritten rule has to be written, it means someone has been an ass. Similarly, when added complexity has to be added to game servers. The players and the game suffer an additional cost.

    Playing a multiplayer game is like setting up a mutually agreed reality. If you win by the rules of that mutually agreed reality, there is some honor. If you're the sort who can't play by the rules, you're one of the good reasons why people are not omnipotent. You'd self/mass destruct given an eternity.

    I suppose Hell for these people would be being given God mode in their own reality, but nobody will play with them.

    --
  115. Not all anticheats are a threat to your privacy. by aziz2000 · · Score: 1

    Many anticheats claim to be like Cheating-Death, but actually they are not similar. Usually they resort to scanning for known file or process names, sending filelistings etc. suspicious things. I'd like to point out that Cheating-Death never sends any information about the client to the server. Users' privacy is an important thing to maintainers of this tool. More info available from United Admins: http://www.unitedadmins.com/cdeath.php Cheating-Death coverage is now about 20% of all Counter-Strike servers, while more servers and leagues adopt it everyday.

  116. Re:RPGs: The REAL problem by tabby · · Score: 1

    This is one of the reasons why I am looking forward to WorldOfWarcraft. Blizzard has a good track record of not only cancelling the accounts/characters of cheaters but revoking their CDkeys for a period and/or permanently.

    --
    I've experiments to run, there is research to be done on the people who are still alive.
  117. Re:The Jeeves and Wooster solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    HAHA I want to see the look on your face when you see what your hot date form quake III looks like in real life!

  118. Answer : because they do not know how to by aepervius · · Score: 1

    Most windows user would be unable to udnerstand the concept of permission or execution level. PS: I am a pure windows user and only installed Linux one time to see what people here were speaking about. I was rebuted by the amount of stuff to learn and dewcided to wait 10 more years before trying again.

    --
    C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
    visit randi.org
  119. Sad death of arcades by Captain+Spam · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This is among the many reasons I like to hang out in arcades, and why I mourn the seemingly inevitable death of the arcade in general (I'm certain there were articles on it before, but I'm too lazy to check). For almost any game in an arcade, you've got your opponent(s) standing right next to you. It's obvious to see if they're cheating or not (Whenever it's actually possible to cheat on an arcade box), and if they are, you have the easy ability to punch them in the face.

    Well, okay, maybe not quite that, but you get the idea. You're live right next to the people, so they're far less likely to cheat.

    You can keep your online games with your cheaters and the like. I much prefer arcades and other manners of live interaction with your opponents.

    Okay... that got real preachy near the end. Whoops. Sorry.

    --
    Demanding constant attention will only lead to attention.
  120. Kudos to Tom's by x-guru · · Score: 1

    I read this article a few days ago, and after reading it I was wishing that I had a space to praise the Tom's crew for directly confronting this issue.

    This is a huge issue for online gaming that not many people have addressed, and it's great to see a major I-zine bringing the issue to the forefront. Nice job guys!

    --x

  121. Where's the line between cheating and not cheating by swanton · · Score: 2, Informative

    Wallhacks and aimbots are actually very easy for hardcore gamers to detect. People who can aim well are not necessarily cheating. It's the people who can aim but not move who are obviously cheating. Moving in quake is an art. If you know how to flick and roll your mouse while jumping you can reach amazing places and speeds.

    I think the more interesting online cheating question is where you draw the line between cheating and not cheating. Built into quake there is an FOV command which gives you a fish-eye view allowing you to see more of the world at one time. This is a huge advantage that most players do not know about. Is it cheating? GL_PICMIP 99 will erase all textures from the world allowing for much better visibility. Cheating or smart configuration? Quad timers? Faster computers?

    Blatant cheats are easy to detect. Subtle and slight advantages that may or may not be cheating are the real problem.

  122. The duck raises an interesting point.... by Penguin2212 · · Score: 1

    After I read the article, I went Counter-hack.net and read the IRC transcript from the "interview" with [myg0t]g0d and it kind of reminded me of this.

    All Cheaters are Fuckheads, but not all fuckheads are cheaters.

  123. I don't understand this cheating problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I play Myth TFL and Myth 2, and cheating there simply does not exist.
    Surely good design can defeat cheating? These games have done it.

  124. It depends on the server you're on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Multi-player games are just another kind of human relationship. Agree on a set of ground rules (identical hardware and software, or not) and play. If anyone whines, it's their fault for agreeing.

    The problem with online cheating isn't the cheating itself, but the anonymity and that it's impossible to agree on real ground rules. If you can get around that, playing online is fun. Find a server where everyone knows and trusts everyone else, and you're set.

  125. =D by Exiler · · Score: 1

    That was the first post in a long that actually made me laugh out loud, haha

    --
    Banaaaana!
  126. Do NOT trust the client. by JazFresh · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Although it's almost impossible to stop cheating in general, it is possible to stop some types of cheating. And developers can do this by reducing the amount of trust in the client to the bare minimum. Whereever possible, keep as much of the decision making on the server side, where it can be kept away from prying eyes, and fixed easily after the game's release.

    If someone is shooting through walls, then the server can detect this simply by replicating the action (player A in position X shoots player B in position Y) in its own trusted space. If A couldn't possibly have shot B from X, then A must be cheating. If server performance is a concern, then this check doesn't have to be done immediately or on the server. The server could spool all shots to a trusted peer which tries to replicate the action and detects cheaters.

    This won't be able to stop certain cheats like those which change the texture of players to bright green or enable wall transparency. You'd need a trusted client for that, and that's not feasible unless (until?) PCs can run signed software that cannot be altered by the user, which isn't going to happen anytime soon (but may be possible on future consoles, as they may have hardware checks).

    One thing you can't patch is the human condition. There will always be griefers who just want to ruin everyone else's fun. The best way to stop them isn't to lecture them on proper game etiquette or make them see the error of their ways, it's to make them accountable for their actions by de-anonymising them. Make them sign up with a credit card to get their name and address. If there is a clause that says your credit card will be charged $100 if undisputable proof is found that you're cheating...

  127. Beating the cheaters at their own game by Blue+Lozenge · · Score: 1
    There's no satisfaction in multi-player gaming like turning the tables on the cheaters...

    Years ago, when QuakeWorld was popular, some friends and I were running a QW server. Skins were a new feature, so we installed the latest skin packs on our server and made use of them. At one point, we noticed that some players were using skins that were totally black or near-black camoflage so that they were virtually invisible in most areas of the maps. So I had a little idea...

    I went through the skin packs and found all of these 'cheater' skins. Then I replaced each one with a custom skin I had made. It was 100% glowing white with a big glowing red target on the front and read "Kick Me" on the back. I passed the updated cheater skins to all of my friends and installed them on the server. Now, all new players, my friends, and I would see the glowing skins while the cheaters themselves thought they were using the black skins.

    It was beautiful! They were so easy to spot and aim at. :) 90% of the time you'd see these glowing-white shapes hiding out in the deep dark shadows of the map camping out for us. Hiding in the corners, glowing white, they were just that much easier to blow away with rockets. They would say things like "cheaterbob> How did you see me?!", and "cheaterjoe> You guys must be cheating!".

    Sweet, sweet revenge...

  128. Not necessarily... by TWX · · Score: 1

    "Communication among non-cheating players is important. One incredible shot is skill. 10 incredible shots in a minute is a cheater."

    When I was in high school, right as Quake came out, we played it every day in computer science class. No one was yet using the mouse, remembering the painful experience it was with DOOM, and I was reigning badass of the game. Sixteen of us on the map, and we'd quit when I hit 100 frags, and the next highest was 40 or 50, and the bulk of the people were down in the 20s or 30s. Granted, once people learned how to use the mouse, they kicked my ass and I've never reclaimed what I lost *sigh*, but it isn't always cheating. I knew that the weapon that I wanted was under the stairway, and that the armor I wanted was on the corner ledge, and to mind the spawnpoint in the tunnel behind it, and when to turn and run backwards shooting rockets down the hall that I had just left, etc. It pissed off the other players to no end when I would make use of what I knew, but I wasn't cheating. Rather, I had no life and the fastest processor in my home computer, so I was always playing.

    --
    Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
  129. Confessions of a cheater.... by saifatlast · · Score: 1

    I cheat in online games, I'll admit it. And I'm also a jerk to everyone in the game whenever possible, and I'll tell you why.

    I LOVE to see peoples rage. I love it when the people who are playing honestly and seriously explode at me, "OMFG MODOR N00B CHAETER". I love watching their inability to spell anything right in their rage. I love ruining the thing they hold so dearly and take so seriously. And I love mocking their seriousness with my friends.

    I also love how superior to me it makes them feel to proclaim that "OMG U SUX SO U R A MOTOR" and how they've been playing that game since they were an uncombined sperm and egg, and that if I had been too I wouldn't be a "MODER N00B".

    I love their assumptions that I am cheating because I lack skill. I do lack skill, sure, but I know that cheating doesn't make me skilled, nor does it make it up for my lack of skill. I don't care, that's never been what it's about for me.

    Finally, I also love their contradictory proclamations of how great they are, which are followed by strings of one-letter online abbreviations. (i.e "U R a...") And their string of non-sequitirs mixed with ad-hominems regarding a wide range of topics. (i.e, my mother's sex life, my sex life, my lack of skill, my lack of intelligence(I can't count how often I've been called "DMUB" or "RETRADED"))

    --
    note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't regist
  130. It's all good practice by erroneous · · Score: 1

    I consider all on-line play to be purely practice for the *real business* of LAN gaming against my friends. I learn maps, learn tactics, and hone my aim.

    Playing against cheats is good practice, because in order to be competitive you must become skilled.

    I really don't care about my on-line kill/death ratio, because I can't know who's a cheater and who's not, and it's the LAN party that matters.

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    erroneous: look me up in a dictionary
  131. CS by Cackmobile · · Score: 0

    I loved that anti cheating prog for Counter Strike. Can't remember what it was called but u couldn't play on a lot of servers without it. It made the cheaters glow. THat was sweet.

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    -- Karma Karma Karma Karma, Karma Chameleon - Boy George
  132. The design is the problem by perrin · · Score: 1

    The only proper solution is to design the game for multiplayer with the inevitability of cheating in mind.

    Always assume that information sent to the client can be made use of by players.

    Never assume that responses from a client are generated by a human being (as opposed to a bot).

    Always make challenges that can be solved better by humans than by computer AIs.

    With these limitations, there are certain games you simply can't make. FPS games where the challenge is simply aiming correctly with a mouse, is one of those.

  133. World War II Online by Mittermeyer · · Score: 1

    WWIIOL's cheating problem is ameliorated by the fact that the company runs it's servers and doesn't have the server code out there. Nonetheless we do get speed hacks and the like.

    The community has commanders in game that have the authority to take miscreants by the scruff of the neck and get their attention. Ultimately they can be kicked out.

    Cheaters are deeply despised.

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    ________________________________________ History Must Not Fall Into The Wrong Hands ___________________________________
  134. Re:RPGs: The REAL problem by kenshin357 · · Score: 1

    "Sadly the policy for most persistent online games is "every player we boot off for cheating is a player who won't pay us money anymore."" That is a very good point. Maybe a more important question though, is which would lose a company like that more money, kicking off X number of cheaters or losing X number of players that get fed up with the cheating going on and quit playing because of it.