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Three LindowsOS PCs Reviewed
Eugenia writes "Not one, but three LindowsOS-based PCs (in the value range of $199 USD) were reviewed online by WashingtonPost. A TigerDirect PC, the traditional WalMart/MicrotelPC and one from Nova Computech. The reviewer says that these PCs while are very low-end today, compared to PCs 2 years ago, are actually pretty good solutions for home usage. The reviewer found them lacking in the gaming (no respectable 3D gfx card included), expandibility departments and while he mentions that Linux-based LindowsOS is affordable, is not a panacea as it lacks in good USB support and other demanding areas of our modern times."
I Also baught 1 from my local walmart, but my porn dialiers dotn work wit it so i gave it back for a refund
no respectable 3D gfx card included
Thats O.K With Linux, no respectable 3D drivers would be included either.
while he mentions that Linux-based LindowsOS is affordable, is not a panakeia as it lacks in good USB support
It also apparently lacks Ispell.
what year is this again 1998?? so after the OS that leaves what 1.5 gigs, I guess they would make good dumb X terminals. good luck doing anything else
For the price you get a good deal. $199 for a pc with OS, that is the same price as Windows XP alone. For $199 nobody should expect good 3d cars in the machine because a new 3d card designed to run modern 3d games costs $199. these machines are good for what they are designed for, inexpensive pc's to read email and browse the web.
... Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed...
All through the complaints on what they are lacking one point is missed... THEY COST $199.00! they are basically a bare-bones PC. hell add another $59.00 and you can get a low end Geforce 4 and make it scream for games.
for $199.00 these things are great.
and the fact they are windows free are even better.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Mr.Robertson said recently in the wake of the SCO vs IBM filing, that he'd paid money to SCO to keep quiet, atleast as regards his flavor of Linux.
This sounds so cowardly and backwards for true Linux enthusiasts. Those who really buy Lindows to use the bundled Linux can load other and better distros as well.
It doesn't sound right - being aggressive against Microsoft and a weakling against puny SCO.
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
I don't know but I didn't find Lindows a good replacement for Linux for those who want to try the *nix world, especially that it costs money and doesn't come with all the software a good distro comes with, anyway, I guess it maybe good for those who think that windows is the only OS.
The IT section color scheme sucks.
I got the impression they were biased from the beginning.
'they cant perform' due to the fact they are not cutting edge technology.
So what? most people don't have brand new stuff and get their jobs done just fine.
In business 99% of the computers are idle, waiting for the user to do something. Even in home life ( games aside ), the computer is NOT being taxed.. its mostly just a expensive heat generating device.
The idea you HAVE to keep this current cycle of upgrades going is really irritating. Efficient programming and some commonsense goes a long way.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
This is the second story I've seen where the text on the main page didn't match the text of the real story. On the main page I see:
mentions that Linux-based LindowsOS is affordable, is not a panakeia
and in the story:
mentions that Linux-based LindowsOS is affordable, is not a panacea
Obviously a correction of a typo, but why doesn't it show up on the main page?! (I'm not caching the page either, this happens on PC's that I've never used to visit slashdot.) Sorry for the OT post, but I'm losing my Mind!
Go away, or I will replace you with a very small shell script.
Despite their scaled-back features, these computers run on AMD Duron 1.0- or 1.1GHz processors, making them speedy enough for word processing, Internet access, working with digital pictures and playing some games.
Making them similar to a P233?
-1 Uncomfortable Truth
And then...
"The reviewer found them lacking in the gaming, expandibility departments... lacks in good USB support and other demanding areas of our modern times."
Now maybe I'm just being picky here, but at least based on the headline, it would seem that this reviewer is contradicting himself.
There's a Mercedes gap too. I want one and can't afford one, but it's not government's job to do anything about it.
$200 will buy you a piece of crap computer, I'm glad that Slashdot linked me to an article telling me that. The only thing related to Lindows in that article is that it told us Lindows has poor USB support.
Or... You plugh in the Lindows tinies as work stations in your kitchen (to access your recipe database) and bedroom, next to your server. When the Wall Mart stuff support Wi-Fi, that is...
What part of These computers sell for $200 did you miss? This isn't the late 90's era of "best bang for under a grand", this is a review of "best bang for an average lower-class can be paid for in a pay check" system. These computers aren't designed to be top of the line, these are a super happy medium between price and performance. If you want a gaming machine for less than $200, got get an PS2, XBox, or GameCube, these computers are meant to do what computers cheaply do. Surf the net, write papers/emails, dink around, etc.
What USB support is lacking? These computers are meant to be useable for Joe Average computer user. You can still visit slashdot with the damned things, no one thought to mention that as a high point. Lindows with a low price system makes a perfect computer for folks wanting to get on the internet and type up some christmas cards. This isn't meant to play Doom III, please remember that, there is a market that wal-mart sells to, and that market is designed for this computer.
Ignore the "p2p is theft" trolls, they're just uninformed
"The Running Man"
The machine is agonizingly slow because of its tiny 3GB drive, which the manufacturer said was recycled from an old notebook computer
Apparently the reviewer doesn't understand all that much about PC hardware. (S)he claims that the machine was slow because of the size of the hard drive!? The only way I can think of that mattering is if it causes you to have less swap space. Yeah, that drive is deinitely too small, but that won't make the machine slower! If it's a slow drive, then that will cut back performance, but when it comes to the speed of access "size doesn't matter". You could make a 3 gig drive that spins at 7200 rpms, and has 8 mb cache, and could be blazing (almost) and still small. That comment discredited everything (s)he said to me. Also, if it's taken from an old notebook, does that mean it's a 2.5" drive?
I have one more question that (s)he never answered. (S)he said that all but one of them didn't have a monitor included, but never said which came with one. Either I mis-read it, or there's some important information missing here. A 1 GHz system with a monitor for only $199 is incredible. Anyone have any info on that?
This space for rent, inquire within.
I know it's commonplace in newswriting, but the contradictory style of the author is particularly annoying in this review:
.] but they generally worked surprisingly well and offered room to grow"
"A $200 Computer Can Perform, Barely" [emphasis added]
"[. .
And soforth. Why not just put a positive headline as opposed to putting a negative headline and contradicting it throughout your article? I know I know, negative headline increases readership. Feh.
Loomis
"The television is the retina of the mind's eye" - Videodrome
Has anyone actually used a Lindows machine. I have a program I want low tech relatives to use, that needs Perl and Tk. The comp would be for that and web surfing.
Some of the relatives might be freaked out by a cheap, powerful Suse Linux PC from a top notch mom and pop computer store. Believe it or not, they would feel more comfortable with a computer from Wal Mart (kinda mysttfying to the tech savvy I realize).
Does Perl, Tk and CPAN work on it, out of the box, or does that require buying the upgrade???
HenryJamesFeltus.com
It also apparently lacks Ispell.
a cea
Sure, the *English* word is panacea.
But the GREEK word that panacea is derived from is "panakeia" -- spelled as in the posting -- meaning (like the English word) a cure-all.
I am not making this up:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=pan
There are only 10 types of people: those who understand decimal, those who don't, and, uh, 8 other types I forget.
It seems to be a distro aimed at software-review journalists.
I'll end with my favorite lines from the review:
Something about this strikes me as being really funny, but I'm not quite sure what it is. (Though I know XP home is only about $99, now, but, whatever...)
philcrissman.com.
What the hell is a panakeia? What's wrong with using a spell-checker? PANACEA PANACEA PANACEA And while I'm on the subject, there is no "a" in "definite" or "definitely".
I hate making flame-bait, but dammit, we're supposed to be the intellectual frontiersmen, here.
Yet another disappointing review whose title should really be âoeA review of the barebones hardware you can get for $200 at Walmart.â There are two, count em, two sentences about Lindows in the whole story:
All three came preinstalled with Lindows, a version of the Linux operating system designed for home users. But Lindows has drawbacks, notably poor support for USB peripherals such as digital cameras and scanners.
Dissapointing that they missed the opportunity to really talk about if this is the PC for grandma, or the other novice users who would be buying a PC so low on the dollar spectrum.
Im not sure at which point this year he picked these machines up, but within the past month ive picked up a few of the walmart variety, and ive got to say that theyre fine. I purchased the 200 dollar model and i got a 1.2GHz Duron,128,nic,sound,video,20GB HD...(Ironically, im installing mandrake on one now). :p
For the low low price of just 217 (My shipping was much lower than his?), i got this guy shipped right to my doorstep. Honestly, theyre great. Fantastic.
Although i wasnt the biggest supporter of Lindows before, after seeing it in action, it really is what my grandmother would need to use Linux. (It even comes with a recovery CD)
Its also worth mentioning that for an extra couple hundred (was $397 for me with shipping) you can have a 14.1 inch flatpanel included with that. As far as the quality goes, its nothing id use for proffesional imaging, but for surfing and sims its more than fine.
Sounds like a deal to me.
And NO, i dont work for walmart.com
I wonder how many people will catch on to the quote at the end where the author mentions that Windows XP Home costs as much as the entire PC + Linux. With luck, it'll make some folks think.
Microsoft: "Drop Dead!" Lindows: "I don't do requests" I got nothing
And don't forget another hundred or so for a new hard drive that can hold said games, and a few hours to replace the old video card and HD and install the OS on it, and figure out how to install the NVIDIA drivers, and oh shit, this just went WAY beyond the capabilities of Joe Sixpack.
There's a Mercedes gap too. I want one and can't afford one, but it's not government's job to do anything about it.
When my trip was finished, it fit into my big Samsonite and I took it back with me. I did two things when I got back home - move the power supply button to 220 and the switch the OS to SuSE Linux. I changed to SuSE because I like that distro more than Michael Robertson's 'apt-get' for a fee'. That's the weakest part of the whole deal.
I just put Red Hat 9 on the box about a week ago. It runs a little slower, but pretty well all in all. I think it was a good value. It's on all the time and it stands up pretty well. If it runs for a year, it's paid itself back.
I've been swashdotted -- Elmer Fudd
But I am logged in, hence my posts are under my login, and I don't browse at the default... I think there's a conspiracy by Slashdot or the Aliens or the Druids to destroy my sanity.... or something like that
Go away, or I will replace you with a very small shell script.
The panakeia / panacea error is not, technically speaking, a typo. It is a language error: panakeia is the Greek spelling of the Greek word, panacea the Latin transliteration. In English, words "naturalized" from Greek before ~1900 are spelled with the Latin transliteration (because most often they were, in fact, borrowed from Latin, which had borrowed them from Greek); after ~1900 with a stricter transliteration. The English spelling is of course panacea.
>> Despite their scaled-back features, these computers run on AMD Duron 1.0- or 1.1GHz processors, making them speedy enough for word processing, Internet access, working with digital pictures and playing some games.
I think 1GHz is MORE than good enough for word processing and internet browsing. I was doing the said activities on a 100 MHz machine back in the old days without much trouble. Otherwise the review is fair and notes that the machines are able to do what they are designed for.
is that in the drive to push the price of Lindows PCs down far below Windows PCs and to sell to a mass market, that some good means are made available for utilizing software modems (a.k.a. Winmodems) that have plagued Linux users for years as (i)being ubiquitous, (ii) having proprietary, hard to decipher interfaces.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
On my Radeon 9500 X wouldn't even start after I installed the drivers. Useless. This was with the latest Red Hat release, and the latest binaries from the ATI website.
This isn't a review. This is a freaking ad for these things. I've seen more in-depth info on freaking packaging. This isn't even a good *description* of these things, just a tiny blurb.
I wouldn't buy *anything* based on information this limited. Well, maybe if it had really complex and shiny packaging. That makes *any* product better.
http://xkcd.com/386/
The price of convenience is the effort to understand technology. If Joe ServicePack cannot put in the effort, he deserves the latest Service Pack and the associated hell from MS.
Linux (any flavor) is not for Joe.
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
You may not be cache the page, but Slashdot certainly is doing it.
Since most visits is probably just viewing the main page, it makes sense to make this a static page that is updated regularily instead of making it purely dynamic. This saves Slashdot SQL-queries and makes the site run more smoothly.
We set 4 of them up for junior employees... They happily chug away with Mandrake on them. Lindows was kind of neat, but we wanted machines that would listen to our LDAP server (running OS X). We just mount the OS X Users share point via NFS and away they go. Each machine has Mozilla on it plus an email application, and they are useful for our web researchers.
They don't have the maintenance headache (and cost) of a Windows machine, and are cheaper than the eMacs that we otherwise use for low end computing.
Alex
It may not be a typo, but having two spellings of the same word definitely isn't oikonomical.
Shop as usual. And avoid panic buying.
That Makes sense! Thanks, I owe you my sanity.
Go away, or I will replace you with a very small shell script.
*sigh*
A militia is composed of private citizens. I am a private citizen. Regardless of any future or current intent, the freedom is extended to the citizens and is non-revocable. End of story.
You can read my journal if you want more details.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
"you must have a car in case granny needs to go to the doctor, therefor you have the right to own a car".
This doesn't mean that you can't own a car unless granny is sick; it means that you have the right (some granny-lovers out there might even say OBLIGATION) to own a car, just in case granny gets sick on day and needs to go to the doctor.
Common sense, in your case, obviously ain't common. Get back on the short yellow bus to canada, and stay there.
To ensure perfect aim, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target
Just what I expected. The review barely qualifies as such, but its overview covers what most suspect -- that these are low power machines built for low power work. That being said, I think the concept is fantastic. For the starving students out there this can be an utterly cheap solution for having a PC to type stuff up on. This would also be good for having "dumb terminals" for other rooms around the house.
"I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
-Hoban Washburn
computers run on AMD Duron 1.0- or 1.1GHz processors,...The machines aren't fast enough to do intensive work like... playing Quake III,
So I guess I was just imagining it when I played Quake3 on my Celeron-533? Even if it's got a crappy graphics card, a Geforce2MX would be plenty good enough and costs like $30 or something. Finally, cheap computers with "good enough" performance.
Lindows reviews? Somehow this just seems counter-productive. The very name "Lindows" just tells you we don't really want ANYTHING to do with it. Hence, it will never catch on. I think nearly all us folks who actually READ slashdot's articles are well aware of how crappy Lindows boxen tend to be. I mean, when is the last time you saw an OEM or retail computer vendor advertising an uber-box with GNU/Linux? They only want to sell the crappy machines with Lindows (or any other ~linux)... Great way to leverage your product, guys! Now all the consumers will only know lindows is similar to windows in the important ways: It's clunky, it's slow, it's bloated, it's overpriced (don't even go there), and it's just a vehicle to serve you more ads, more spam, and more junkware. If we wanted the features Lindows offers, we'd burn a copy of win98 and still be able to play games.
/. honestly want to get rid of the M$ pigopoly, shouldn't you be encouraging people to use something else? PUT YOUR D4MN MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS! Do you honestly think this is going to happen on it's own? An OS model this free and powerful will NEVER catch on as long as there's no money to be made by selling it.
When the big 5 OEMs start putting out SuSe and RH boxen on their big advert campaigns, we may see progress. You want linux (or whatever your favorite free OS happens to be) to become more popular? How about all us geeks and techs and admins start encouraging folks to use *NIX instead of obfuscating the issue? When we all help our MOTHERS and SISTERS, and our FATHERS and BROTHERS and FRIENDS learn to use Linux without acting like it's some kind of obscure and bizarre cult for geeks... perhaps then we'll see a shift from the insane strongarm tactics of M$ and their cronies.
So go convince a relative or friend to switch over to linux... do it one at a time so you don't get swamped with "support" calls. DO YOUR PART! We'll never get everyone to migrate all at once. They may be fed up with M$, too, but it's all they know. If you slacker geeks here on the
ok, it was a nice thought though, wasn't it?
So far a lot of the comments have been of the following types:
1. Hey, that's a really shitty review.
2. What great/terrible hardware for $199.
3. Lindows is/isn't a good choice for home usage.
I think ya'll are missing the big picture - the fact that a Linux based PC even got reviewed in such a mainstream news source! Its not posted to Slashdot because it is a complete technical review, nor to let all you l33t fuckers know about the crazy good hardware inside to make your little coder jaws go slack in awe. It got posted to slashdot because, holy shit, its a review of a Linux-based PC in a very prominent online news source that the majority of readers who visit have probably never laid eyes on Linux before. Its called EXPOSURE (and not the bad, get registered to a sex offender database type, either.)
Especially in the face of all the FUD surrounding Linux cuz of those SCO bastards, its really nice to see an average Joe type news source with an average Joe type reviewer gving space and consideration to a rather new, highly feared and doubted, but otherwise relatively UNKNOWN (to most people, not geeks) solution to the problem of a new PC costing too much money.
And if mom and dad or grandma and grandpa can send email, surf the web, use their digital camera, and play some Sims, what the hell are they missing? When was the last time your grandma bragged about her frag rate? That doesn't count if your grandma is Italian and runs hits for the mob.
Anyway, my 2Â.
Most of the people out there bought a PC b/c they thought they needed one. We could be surfing the internet on a 3.7GHZ intel with HyperThreading, but why?
/. sees a computer, like a stock machine, begging to be customized and scrutinized. Last thing they see it as is an appliance.
A Lindows PC is for the average consumer. They need something to type and print documents with, view digital pictures and print them, surf the web, etc. It's something that most consumers thought it was; an appliance.
Average
The Lindows OS is just an affordable solution. Most consumers are probably wondering why Window PCs costs as much as it does, when all they want to do is are basic functions.
This is a machine you'd plop in front of your folks and friends who want to read their email and check out last night's baseball highlights without having to pay so much for options they've never heard of and will probably never use.
I don't work for Lindows or any of the computer distributors mentioned above. I own a PC with windows, and a PC with slackware.
J.
You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me.
For $200 plus another $80 in parts we recently purchased 10 machines that we are using for 20 users (via RedHat 9 and the multiple XFree86 hack). They are working quite well for data entry via the internet and at under $150/seat (purchased more RAM and a video card) they're quite a bargain if you ask me.
Anyway, it's OT (but I was bored) and quoting half-sentences of the constitution out of context doesn't do the pro-gun lobby any favours.
J.
You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me.
Grandma, or Joe Sixpack, aren't going to change out the OS, or even apply service packs. For that audience, it makes sense to review hardware and software as a single unit.
And they did mention that they could run games on the thing, which means that Lindows was working.
Jon Acheson
All opinions expressed herein are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled.
A short and free review by Consumer Reports can be summed up by the quote: We weren't impressed
Although you can argue that these PCs are sufficient for most tasks, the fact that they are being sold at Wal-mart opens them up to criticism like this because, really, are wal-mart customers going to know the difference between buying a Windows PC and a Lindows PC? I would buy one of these as a techie, but I wouldn't recommend it to most folks that shop for electronics at Wal-mart.
If you're making a system for Grandma, it would be better if it had a CD-RW drive instead of a regular CD drive. That way you easily back the system up for Grandma when you come to visit.
I did that for my parent's P133 system just this past weekend with the drive we got my Dad for Father's Day.
Jon Acheson
All opinions expressed herein are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled.
In today's society, one does not admit in public any ties to the militia, past, future or present.... It only gets you investigated by the 'homeland security' department.
Though I don't think it was out of context, it is the letter of the constitution.. I have the right, even if its just 'training' for the future militia that will form when the citizens are fed up with being mis-treated by its government.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
You think most people have a domain controller at home? The main difference Pro has over Home is joining a domain. It's all XP underneath.
Only the novapcs mentions it is using a sis 730 mobo,
.doc, xls. or .ppt suffixes.
the wallmart pc uses probably a Integrated TRIDENT BLADE 2D/3D graphics video.
the wintermart probably uses a Integrated S3 Savage 4 video up to 32 mb ram.
Now tell me why cannot play quake 3 on either of these? The reviewer should have tried it! OK QII with 300 fps in 1600x1200FSAA is not possible but 25 FPS in 640x480 should work. (Is there a port for QIII?)
(Warning lots of copy and paste work below.)
tiger direct
Premium Wintergreen Complete Kitâ"AMD Duron 1.0GHz, 128MB SDRAM Memory, 10GB Hard Drive and More!
This system has all the extras you are looking orâ"a fast AMD Duron 1.0GHz processor, onboard premium video, crystal-clear integrated sound, 10GB hard drive, high-speed CD-ROM drive, floppy drive, 10/100 Ethernet and a 56K modem. Get your barebone kit today and build your dream computer for a fraction of the retail price!
* AMD® Duronâ 1.0GHz Processor Learn More
* 128MB PC133 SDRAM Memory Learn More
* 10GB Hard Drive
* 56x CD-ROM Drive
* 3.5" (1.44MB) Floppy Disk Drive
* 56K Modem
* Onboard Premium Audio
* Premium Integrated Video
* PS/2 Keyboard/Mouse
* Monitor Sold Separately
wallmart
icrotel SYSMAR417 PC With Lycoris OS & AMD Duron 1.1GHz
$199.98
Availability: Usually takes 2 to 7 business days to process before shipping.
Shipping Cost: To see the shipping cost for this item, add it to your cart.
128 MB memory
10 GB hard drive
CD-ROM drive
Integrated 10/100 Ethernet connection
Lycoris Desktop/LX operating system (Linux-based)
Modem and floppy disk drive are not included
This item is currently available online only.
Key Features and Description
Note: Linux operating systems may not be compatible with some dial-up Internet services, such as AOL or Wal-Mart Connect. Microtel can only guarantee Linux-based OS compatibility with factory-installed components. Microtel will not be responsible for the installation and operation of third-party hardware or software used with its computers that have these operating systems.
The Linux-based operating system in these PCs is not compatible with any Microsoft Windows programs, however, it is great for basic operations such as email, Web browsing and instant messaging and can be easily upgraded for compatibility with Microsoft Office documents that have
* AMD Duron 1.1 GHz processor with 3DNow! technology
* 200 MHz frontside bus
* 128 MB SDRAM, expandable to 1 GB
* 133 MHz memory speed
* 10 GB Ultra-ATA 100 hard drive, 5400 rpm (total accessible capacity varies depending on operating environment)
* 52x CD-ROM drive
* Integrated video with up to 8 MB shared video memory
* Integrated AC '97 audio
* Integrated 10/100 Ethernet connection
* Mid ATX tower case (17.5"D x 7.5"W x 15"H)
* Available external drive bays: two 5.25-inch, one 3.5-inch internal
* 2 available PCI slots
* Serial port
* Parallel port
* Two USB 1.1 ports
* 104-key keyboard
* 2-button mouse with wheel
* Audio port (line-in, line-out, mic-in)
* Stereo speakers
* 1-year warranty, return to manufacturer
Software includes:
* GIMP digital image editor
* Word processor, spreadsheet, presentation maker, addressbook, calendar
* Contact manager and time management
* Digikam digital camera software supporting over 162 digital cameras
* Mozilla Web browser and email client
* XMMS MP3, Ogg Vorbis, WA
Just mentioning what I happened to notice. Conclusions, if any, are left to the reader.
Walmart had a Lycoris OS pc for. $199 .
Some of the Microtel systems come with an MSI 6390 board . The MSI Metis barebones ( $138 at Newegg also uses this board and I have used these boards extensively due to their tight integration, small form factor, high degree of reliability and stability.
... Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed...
I read somewhere that these have a SiS630 chipset. I have this chip and it doesn't load 3D in Linux. So how come they run some games?
Lindows is not targeted at the average /.er so donÂt start bashing M$.
.
Option 1:
-You recommend this 200$ lindows PC and replace it with tyour corparate key XP
Option 2:
-You let them have their lindows PC since it works great in browsing porn, as long as they do not bother you
Option 3: (Since 1: you live in the US and want to be legal, and 2 the buyer is a nice female )
-You install debian on their PC and dedicate your life in supporting them.
Eugenia, in English the word is "panacea".
Tiger Direct charged $40 and Wal-Mart $80 for shipping
What? I ordered an 1ghz p4 emachine several months ago for $299 at overstock.com, and the shipping was $3.95. And it came with Windows XP preinstalled.
at work i'm using an amd k7 700 + voodoo 3 and at home i have a dual celron 400 + tnt1. both of these machines work fine for pretty much everything i do. one of these 200 machines with a new videocard would suit most of my needs. granted i dont really play any games, but for programming, browsing the web, editing images, watching movies, etc. these would be more that enough.
-- john
Has anyone used them as Samba-servers for a small office? Maybe throw in a 100 gig disk, turn it on and forget about it?
How did it fare?
Thanks.
... USA Today reviewed 9492 promotional giveaway calculators, concluding that while they were mere pieces of technological crap not even worth MY two cents, each one of them could have replaced a supercomputer in the 50's!
The article goes on to quote Joe Yodel, Bumfuck, Kansas, as saying: "Whoa, I own a supercomputer! Imagine a beowulf cluster of these!"
Average Joe knows nothing of SCOÂs FUD.
So, wait, is Slashdot in Greek or English again?
Any second now someone's going to post:
"Well, it's all Greek to me".
It's gotta happen. I've seen this all before.
Oh, wait. Damn; it was me.
Then I apologize.
There are only 10 types of people: those who understand decimal, those who don't, and, uh, 8 other types I forget.
I spent yesterday afternoon scrounging through my spare computer parts box trying to get enough peices together to build my sister a new machine for her new apartment. She has no money with moving/baby costs, so any machine would do. I ended up putting together a PIII 700, 256MB RAM. cheap everything else machine running Red Hat.
/.ers could find enough parts to build a machine like that in their closet right now, but your average person can't.
The point is that most
If you want to play games you really need to build your own PC these days, so lets exculde the gamers. The hard core computation people all have nice goverment grants to buy fast clusters now, so we can exclude them. So... What else is left... Surfing the web and email, with the occasional office appliction thrown in. Why pay $1500 for that. In fact I belive that most people barely push their CPU's at all in their common, day to day computer operations, so why should they waste their money on an uber powerful computer.
While I'm sure that my above list of high end machine needs is incomplete (please don't mod me down as flamebait, I'm just making apoint), The point is that the casual gamer can buy an Xbox for $300, why can't the casual web surfer buy a computer for $300.
i was at a friends house working on his computer. i was playing with one of those little keychain usb drive things. i stuck it into the port on his xp box and a drive appeared in the "my computer" thing. i didnt have to add any drivers or anything. the real kicker here is that sure you might have to install drivers in windows but at least they exist. you dont even have such assurances in linux.
dont get me wrong, i use linux exclusively. so when i purchase new hardware, i know it works with linux before i buy it.
windows affords users the luxury of not having to go through that. sure this is a direct result of their monopoly on the desktop, but the average user doesnt care about that. they want to be able to buy a cheap ass webcam and have it work. while they may have to stick in a driver disk in windows, there is a good chance there is no support in linux.
-- john
The difference between Windows and Unix is: Windows comes with everything out of the box, but doesn't work after that; Unix comes with nothing out of the box, but once you get stuff working it stays working.
Lindows needs to work on the tons of driver candy, and encourage manufacturers to do so.
http://rocknerd.co.uk
"The machine is agonizingly slow because of its tiny 3GB drive"
Proving that whoever wrote it, is retarded. The rest of the article goes about the same way, saying "Oh, this computer has 3 PCI slots, instead of the other computer that has 2PCI and 1AGP." Without pointing out how important having an AGP slot is, so you can put a decent graphics card in it.
-Bill
-Bill
If you look at the Lindows website, you will see that the only places that they have an agreement with OEMs are in USA, Canada and Israel. Although Linux PCs are available in Europe, you won't find a 200 Euro model available. Invariable the best value (price/performance) on the market comes with Windows XP.
for reference's sake. We know what the $200 computers have, WRT drives, CPU, etc. Let's see what Dell offers.
(these are the cheapest Dimension/Optiplex computers I could find right now.)
$360 - Dimension 2350. P4-2200, 30g 7200rpm, 128mb, 48x, Microtower, Windows XP Home.
$360 - Optiplex SX260. Celeron 1800, 20g 5400rpm, 128mb, 24x, Ultrasmall Form Factor, Windows XP Home.
Yes, there are alternatives to the $200 machines. Just expect them to cost more.
"Sometimes a woman is a kind of religion, she can save your soul & set you free from all your sins" - Bad Examples
If you want to run games, get a game console.
It may not be a typo, but having two spellings of the same word definitely isn't oikonomical.
Somebody, please, mod quoted parent up funny. Just look up the word "economics" in a dicitonary and look at the etymology if you don't get the joke.
"So what? most people don't have brand new stuff and get their jobs done just fine.
In business 99% of the computers are idle, waiting for the user to do something. Even in home life ( games aside ), the computer is NOT being taxed.. its mostly just a expensive heat generating device"
I couldn't agree more. I, like my colleagues and 2 service centres of over 200 staff are currently using Windows 95 on Pentium 166Mhz machines. I have 64Mb memory and a 4gig hard drive. OK these machines are a horror to use on a day to day basis - at least 2 crashes a day, but they do run everything I need to be productive and they do allow me to get my work done, eventually.
If my company had been concerned about always getting the latest and greatest and toeing the upgrade line we would no doubt have wasted an awful lot of money on new hardware & software. It's also interesting to note we are a large global consultancy who always recommed that our clients absoloutley need the latest flat screen monitors and 2Ghz processors to make their powerpoint presentations onI'm looking for an under-$1000, four or five pound notebook with relatively decent specs to run SuSE on. The Lindows Moblie PC is out... I don't want no steenking Via. I leaning toward a 12" iBook, but then I stumbled across Averatec 3150 series. 12", Athlon Mobile 1600, 30GB, 256MB, CD-RW/DVD, 4.3 pounds, 3 USB 2.0, & PCMCIA for less than a grand, or with integrated 802.11b for just over.
Has anybody else come across anything similar at the same price? I've still gotta haul my ass to Best Buy to play with one of the Averatecs, and it's gonna be a couple of months before I've got a thousand bucks to drop.
hang brain.
is for knowledgeable technical people to converse and learn by discussing the news stories of the day.
I would say its remit has no connection whatsoever with Joe Sixpack. Certainly Joe would be totally bewildered by 99% of what goes on here.
I don't see anything wrong with that; Joe has his own publications and forums, and so do we.
D
I just love competing with people who feel they have to decide whether their customers deserve their product. Also those who are convinced that convenience is an impossible dream.
Despite their scaled-back features, these computers run on AMD Duron 1.0- or 1.1GHz processors, making them speedy enough for word processing, Internet access, working with digital pictures and playing some games.
I still own a 4.77 Mhz PC clone (circa 1984) - guess what? - I used to do word processing on it. I still could if I had to.
What planet are these guys living on?
Not bad for the price Walmart
No doubt /.'ers are quite familiar with Lindows and Linux. Considering the article ran in the Washington Post, albeit online, I am a little surprised more emphasis wasn't placed on the fact that the OS was not any type of Windows product, and, if Joe/Jane Sixpack were to buy one thinking he or she could run M$ stuff on a $200 machine, he or she would likely be sorely disappointed.
I am a big fan of Walmart et al making this move, but I don't expect it to be a big hit just yet with the average Redmondite.
If you love something, let it go. If it comes back to you, hump its leg.
The English spelling is of course panacea
...
Hmm - I always thought that was the US English spelling of pancake.
Still I somewhat doubt that panakeia is the Greek spelling of anything
panakeia is the Greek spelling of the Greek word, and if you click on the submitter's link, you find that she's Greek, so this is not the standard Slashduh illiteracy, but a symptom of polyglottalism.
Support for Radeon and NVidia pretty much covers every decent 3D card released in the last 3 years. Linux also offers excellent 3dfx Voodoo support too, for us old timers.
I'm gonna stick my neck out and guess that more than half the people who care about decent 3D are currently running an NVidia card - before ATI recently woke up they've ruled the roost fairly consistently since 3DFX died. Many knock NVidia for their binary only drivers, and there have been some issues in the past, but in my experience the latest version is truly excellent.
In fact the only halfway useful 3D chipset I can think of that _might not_ be well supported is PowerVR, and in truth that would not really be a big deal. So tell us what decent 3D hardware isn't well supported under linux!
Considering that they typical person that buys this thing would be operating at the boundaries of their experience, the review's meta-data might be of some use.
I don't know about "damage" over all. The Consumers Report on the Lindows PC is what is really damaging. Millions of people actually rely on them for reviews and they were "Not Impressed".
Contrary to popular belief, coding is not all free blow-jobs and beer. Those things cost MONEY!
The specs mentioned on these PCs include a 1.1GHz CPU, 128MB of games, a 3GB "old slow laptop" HD, and you think that a GeForce 4 will make it good for games??? How many games run on Linux/Lindows? Where can I buy them? If I go into an EB, what games run on Linux?
Being Windows free means that 99.9% of consumer software won't run on it. Having good USB support is critical to using the computer for anything with external devices. If I am Joe 6 Pack and I go to CompUSA and buy a NEW $200 digital camera, then I am screwed if the camera doesn't have Linux drivers. If I get one that's cheaper than that, I am even MORE screwed (how many geeks do you know that buy a < 1MP camera and write drivers for Linux).
I'm not asking about do-it-yourself computer nerds with 10 years of Linux experience, I'm asking about normal people who are intimidated by what they don't understand. Most smart teenagers can wrap their head around Linux, but given the choice between Linux on a REALLY cheap PC and Windows on all their school computers and their friends computers, which do you think they're going to have a more positive experience with?
Also, I'm sure that these PCs come with a CD-ROM, but do they come with CD-RW? How similar to Windows is the OS? When I insert a blank CD ready to burn, what happens? Can I drag and drop to manage my files? Is there a manual? Help? Support? Microsoft Windows has a "Help and Support" section built in to the start menu, and step-by-step help instructions for doing just about anything tricky for a typical PC user. Most Linux software is aimed squarely at the do-it-yourselfer-with-the-CLI.
I'm not trying to dis the system as non-functional. I'm simply saying that for the low end computer user, it's going to be a real struggle to use when anything new comes out, and 99.9% of software that a consumer will want to run only runs on Windows. The other .1% is obscure and hard to find. $89 for Windows XP isn't unreasonable. A $150 pile of hardware will seem like a 5 year old computer when compared to a $400 computer with decent specs in today's market. Imagine what that computer will be able to do in 2-5 years.
My best home PC is an 850MHz Athlon with 512MB RAM, 120GB HD, USB2+Firewire, a GeForce 2 card, and it runs Windows XP Pro/Office XP Pro. The hardware cost about $1000 2 years ago. That's a little more than $1 per day that I've gotten out of it. Imagine that software costs an additional $1000 for Office XP, Windows XP, and Photoshop 7. I've spend about $2 per day on this computer over the last 2 years, and over the course of the 5 year lifetime of the computer, it will be averaged to about $0.50 per day.
The nice thing about this computer is that when Windows XP detects a new device, it either installs the driver from the Microsoft driver cache/horde somewhere, or pops up a window to help you find the driver. In my experience, I only need drivers for new, exotic devices like my $1500 Digital SLR. The other devices like my new USB2/Firewire PCI card and the CF card reader that attaches to it just work. All you see is a little balloon in the corner notify you that Windows found the driver and you can now use your device.
I very rarely need to install the floppy or CD that came with the new hardware, but even if I did I can be confident that the CD works with my Windows computer as long as the CD says Windows (XP) somewhere on it, which all of the CDs that come with my hardware do. Many of these also supports Mac OS. I haven't purchased a single device which comes with any support for Lindows, or Linux, or BSD.
Lindows is just not as big of
I've dealt with them before.
I ordered a GeForce 4 Ti4600 (PNY Verto) from them, and the card was defective. Within 20-30 minutes of bootup, text in console mode would be corrupted every few characters, and in X (or in Windows), there would be vertical yellow lines every few pixels. Probably a cold solder joint somewhere...
So I first tried dealing with PNY support. Their response: Take it to the vendor for a return.
So I try to return it to Nova. They tell me to go talk to PNY.
It took two weeks to receive an RMA number, after which I sent back the card, demanding a refund. (I did NOT want a replacement, as at this point I wanted to end all further association with both PNY and Nova due to the horrendous customer support both of them had.)
A month later and still no credit. It took me 4-5 calls before I reached someone with a clue, who told me that they had tried the unit and it wasn't defective, and that a replacement was out of stock. I told him, no, I didn't want a replacement, I never wanted to deal with PNY again. In the end I got ripped off for a $30 restocking fee for a defective product and a month of hassles.
Stay away from Nova Computech. Don't know about TigerDirect, although they've had bad press here before. Walmart's return policies in-store are great, I don't know about online. I'm sad to say this, but Wally World is likely your best bet for one of these systems. (I'll be ordering one shortly - It's perfectly suited as a basic personal webserver.)
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Here is a working link for the report on Consumer Report's site.
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur
In my application I don't give a flying foo. The system is going to live under a counter at a coffee shop as a simple firewall and terminal server.
But, having built many computers, I have noticed that most systems the use the main ram for video ram share this problem. PS: Low-end dell's fall under this category, at least the Optiplex 150. No experience with other vendors, feel free to share.
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
Pretty much all the PC's in this review do not have any accelerated 3D support under Linux, with the possible limited exception of the S3 Savage 4 core in one of them.
I just installed Red Hat 9.0 and I was shocked that it didn't install the correct drivers for my NVidia video card. Sure, 2D worked okay but it didn't bother to install any 3D acceleration so I had to download drivers myself and edit X configuration files manually. The average user wouldn't be able to figure this out.
Duck curry... yum!
Hope she can export more!
I am impressed. I bet you even make your own crack cocaine in your own bathtub. Blah.
I love the way right-wingers always fall back on the mistakes of the past to justify the mistakes of the present.
I'm not a right-winger. I'm just sick and fucking tired of ignorant eurotrash ignoring reality. Europe's doing fine, huh? How many people leave europe to move to the USA every year, and how many leave the US to move to europe? Just keep repeating that everything's fine, because although it won't actually MAKE it fine, you'll be able to convince yourself. No one here cares.
As far as fat women go...well...i wonder where the term rubenesque came from. couldn't have been europe. everyone in europe is perfectly formed and healthy, while all americans are fat. since you're the type of person who likes to make fun of others based on their appearance, i bet you'd have no problems with posting your picture, right? it's obvious you have no intelligence, but perhaps someday you'll stumble over a clue. as you're eurotrash, however, i won't count on it.
So? My Radeon 7000 is detected autmaticly by Mandrake 9.1
Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
indeed these machines are not pancakes; Eggo has upgraded their pancakes to support USB 2.0; Aunt Jemima is expected to follow suit in the next few weeks.
This isn't red hat's fault, this is Nvidia's fault. Blame the card manufacturer, and be impressed by the quality of the support it did have out of the box. Remember the drivers in question have been developed without help from Nvidia who keeps the specs needed to write drivers to themselves.
This was a hardware review, not a review of Lindows. The Post has already reviewed Lindows 3.0, so the editor asked me to steer away from a lingering discussion about it.
Forgive me if this is a dumb question, but what is a "speccy"? Is it a type of machine?
Shame on Google.
Still I somewhat doubt that panakeia is the Greek spelling of anything .
No, technically, it is a transliteration into the Latin alphabet, following modern transliteration rules, of the Greek spelling of pi-alpha-nu-alpha-kappa-epsilon-iota-alpha.
and if you click on the submitter's link, you find that she's Greek, so this is not the standard Slashduh illiteracy, but a symptom of polyglottalism.
Which, of course, was implied by my point: it is a language error; the author is writing in English, and using a Greek spelling (in the Latin alphabet).
2 years ago, when all the PC's ran at these speeds and less?
I decided to do price research into how much it would cost to build an equivalent machine to the one I built a year ago, today. ($369.32) compared to much more a year ago. It's not $200, but it is a beefed up system that any college student in 3D design could get by with. See the specs at: http://tgraupmann.hypermart.net and then go build one yourself.
I don't know how the 3 GB thing got started, the base system is 10 GB, and they have some nice upgrades at 229.00. One has DDR ram. 10 and 15 GB HDD's. Go look for yourself. Now, These systems can run KDE and Gimp all at once, no problem. I do it all the time using Mandrake 8, 256 MB SDRAM, and an AMD K6-2 running at 390 MHZ. All Day, till I drop, and I cannot see why Lindows can't do that too (Debian). If I had a spare 229.00, which I don't, I'd get this machine, put my HDD's in it (save time) and go to it! Save on Shipping? Where is this place anyway. Let's just drive over there and suprise them some Saturday morning, $$ in hand.
What are you comparing this to? You obviously haven't installed a shrinkwrap MS Windows OS recently. You do not get accelerated drivers for any video hardware from MS in their OS's. You have to go get them from the vendor and install them.
Use ISO 8601 dates [YYYY-MM-DD]
Sure, these machines are cheap, because XP's not installed, and I have heard this referred to as the "MS Tax"
If, and this is a big if, they come with the Lindows OS CD's, then one can put Windows 98 on it, and then
reinstall Lindows on top of that. Probably what I would do is put the Lindows HDD in as "slave" and put my Windows 98/Mandrake/Redhat HDD in as "master" and set it all up like that. Hope to get System Commander to control it all, or would have a stack of boot disks for all the Linux installs. I have this machine I am on now set up that way.
errrmm actually windows dosnt ship with nvidia opengl drivers either. it amazing what people expect from linux distros sometimes.
That's because unlike windows, and despite bitching back, open source developers tend to implement those things they bitch about. I'm all for it, the more people bitch, the more ends up happening.
However, having recently bought a Geforce4 card and installed WinXP, I note that Windows doesn't come with Nvidia drivers for this card either. So you can't blame linux too much :)
(your point about having to edit XF86Config-4 is valid, though ... I would have thought Nvidia would have included a fix for that in their script (all it should take is changing "nv" to "nvidia" in the driver section))