Slashdot Mirror
Win4Lin 5.0 Reviewed
uninet writes "About a month ago, NeTraverse contacted OfB Labs with an early release copy of Win4Lin 5.0, the follow-up to the already impressive Win4Lin 4.0 released in May 2002. Win4Lin, for those not familiar with it, offers near-native (or better) speed "virtualization" of a Windows box so that one can run Windows 9x (95/98/Me) inside GNU/Linux."
Win4Lin 4.0 has been renamed to Win4Lin 5.0 Full-Speed!!!!
Creating a similar look-and-feel to the original, and using the actual code from the original are two very different things.
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
I'm willing to pay for one of these windows-emulation packages when they finally get some 3D going, which is why I _really_ want Windows at this point. What's stopping them from doing this?
-Erwos
Plausible conjecture should not be misrepresented as proof positive.
one of the toughest challenges a piece of software ever faces, the upgrade installation mode
I can think of several stress filled things a program may have to do. I'm not sure the upgrade installation mode ranks as the "toughest". Maybe it's difficult to get perfect...
(Incidentally, there is not really anything orignal in the MSW GUI - it is nearly all copied from elsewhere (e.g.: Apple).)
(I was going to mod this a troll but was not sure if it was, so replied instead).
Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley
[This post is in the public domain (copyright-free) unless otherwise stated]
yet you think it's unreasonable for people to criticize these coders who blatantly copy Windows
This is a virtualization program. A bit like VMWare... you still have to obtain (ahem) a copy of windows.
NeTraverse...How is it pronounced?
Net reverse? or
Knee traverse?
why would I want to run the any of the 9x-based Windows? 95 is pretty aweful (compared to what is available now); both 98 and Me have a pretty bloated feel. Unfortunately, the article does not seem to mention any of the new Windows, XP and 2K, which are arguably the best and therefore most desireable. Does anyone know if 2000/XP can be run?
How about running Linux on Windows? Then maybe people would be more inclined to test the waters of the Linux world. Think of it as a way to migrate users off of the M$ titty.
Life is not for the lazy.
Why exactly does one need to run Windows at all? It seems Linux offers everything the average user would need.
Except for Windows applications.
What's wrong with Wine?
...offers near-native (or better) speed "virtualization" of a Windows box...
Surely you're not suggesting that some tree-loving hippies can generate faster code than the world's biggest software maker? Quick, subsidise Microsoft so that it can compete more fairly! Better still, pass a law to make open source illegal!
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
I've only used Windows in VMware in linux - which works well, but takes a while to boot up (and there's still no 3d support). How does Win4Lin compare to vmware for this... anyone?
We use VMware for legacy stuff - any hints as to how the two compare? If it's easier to install/deploy then I might migrate..
I don't read your sig, why do you read mine?
It looks like one of the most important new features is Winsock 2 support.
Why ? How about corporate mandated use of Outlook and Exchange ? (Exchange 5.5 so I can't use Ximian Connector for Ximian Evolution).
And there are other reasons too, for me, its the ability to use the phone.com WML/HDML simulator for testing my WML and HDML code visually and PL/SQL Developer for (WH)Oracle .
Others probably have their resons (besides games since it doesn't support the higher versons of Direct X yet).
UPS Sucks
Win4Lin and VMware don't have 3d support - so most games are out. Lindows is just a linux distribution. Wine runs a few windows games on linux - but not many, and isn't a solution for most games.
So really, right now, none of these products are reasons for the gaming industry to not support linux.
It's crazy how much time people put into making Windows emulators for GNU/Linux. I mean, if you want to use Windows applications, just install the Windows that came free with your computer. For the cost of Win4Lin or Wine, you can get a whole nother hard drive to dedicate to Windows, and it will be fully compatible.
On a related note, how come there are no Linux emulators for Windows? Is it because Windows has better alternatives to any Linux program, or is there some sort of GPL patent issue?
Boromir, son of Faramir, King of Gondor and Minas Tirith
Check out Transgaming. They support a variety of DirectX games, including some 3d games iirc. They do this through extending wine to support DirectX. What I don't know is if they feed changes back into the mainline Wine. I do know that CodeWeavers do, but they don't support DirectX...
On the other hand, the age old question is that if Windows emulation works SO well on Linux, then will there ever be a commercial market for native Linux apps? I'd rather see native ports of these various apps/games, and I hope emulation is simply a stopgap...
I believe applications such as this do not include windows... they simply give you a virtual system where you can install and run windows on. no one is copying look feel or function, they are simply allowing you to run a licensed copy of windows on top of Linux.
Here's the NeTraverse link- I've not done HREF yet - sorry:
g y. php?PHPSESSID=5ed8e1d8cb2384cbb6523ec150ee5779
http://www.netraverse.com/products/wts/technolo
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
"The NeTraverse products are derived from a proven technology developed over the last 15 years for UNIX® based operating systems, notably SCO®'s, MergeTM technology, accounting for over 800,000 users worldwide."
Funny how the article didn't mention Win4Lin had any connection with SCO... probably because NOBODY wants to be associated with those money grubbers these days!
Since you can't run the newest games on any of those, it's not really an issue. Native ports won't happen until there's enough of a market and there won't be enough of a market until there's enough users and there won't be enough users until there's enough apps and so on in an endless loop.
The above-mentioned apps are to break this unfortunate cycle and get people on to Linux, which must be a good thing.
Does a Christian soccer team even need a goalkeeper?
Win4lin needs to be free, as it is important for people switching over to Linux. Something similar to the "free blender" campaign may be in order... I know I'd donate quite a bit to the fund.
Unfortunately, there's a lot of things people need Windows (or other specific operating systems) for.
There's no Linux equivalent to Microsoft Money, for example -- not something that can connect to my bank automatically and get statements and process transfers without having to import and export qif files. Same with Microsoft Streets&Trips -- there's simply no equivalent.
I can't connect a Linux box to my work's VPN either -- there's no working client.
And if I managed to do so, what would I use to connect to the Exchange server to get my emails and appointments?
Then there is, as the previous poster stated, the issue of games. Linux games are few and far between, especially 3D games.
Oh, and watching DVDs? (Legally, that is)
That said, there's similar cases where Unix-like systems can offer what Windows can't. cygwin helps, sure, but that's just like running a Windows emulator under Linux.
The real problem I see with the product is that Windows 9x isn't going to be supported for much longer, and new software more and more often require an NT5+ based OS (Windows 2000/XP/2003).
In which case Windows 9x compatibility won't help too much...
Regards,
--
*Art
I doubt emulators are the reason game manufacturers are not producing for GNU (though it is an interesting idea and could be true in the future when GNU becomes more popular and/or these emulators work better).
I do not know anything about the games industry (I do not even play games much), but I would guess the reasons for this are the same reasons why commercial products are not been created in general (it is cheaper just producing for the most popular, Microsoft tools are used for development, M$ wants them too (and all that entails), &c).
Off-topic: From your profile:
Hmmm...was that supposed to make sense (anyway..eye of the beholder and all)?Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley
[This post is in the public domain (copyright-free) unless otherwise stated]
On a related note, how come there are no Linux emulators for Windows? Is it because Windows has better alternatives to any Linux program, or is there some sort of GPL patent issue?
You can run linux in vmware in windows in vmware in linux in vmware in windows in vmware in linux in vmware in windows in vmware in linux in vmware in windows in vmware in linux in vmware in windows in vmware in linux in vmware in windows in vmware in linux in vmware in windows in vmware in linux.
And from what I understand, you can do this in windows too.
-1 Uncomfortable Truth
It will be modded (-1 redundant high-speed).
Slashdotter are stupid and biased.
Unless you obtained an illegal copy of Windows, most of us actually have to pay for it. Last I knew, Windows wasn't free.
Yes, this is sarcasm.
Why Microsoft hasn't sued them out of bussiness?
Sony succesfully sued Bleem out of bussiness...
Granted you need a win98 cd to get this sucker running (Which means they have to still buy windows from Microsoft.)
but conversly, it means more people like my mother could potentially use it as they would then still be able to use their old win apps.
Now all we need is to run WinLin with a Unix emulator running a Mac Emulator running...
...offers near-native (or better) speed "virtualization" of a Windows box..
Alas, even linux can't really speed up Micro$soft software - it must alter reality and virtualize it for us...
From excellent karma to terible karma with a single +5 funny post...
I stopped reading right there. No thanks. I left my kernel patching days behind me when I tossed Slackware in favour of Red Hat four years ago. I don't want to deal with that shit any more.
Why exactly does one need to run Windows at all? It seems Linux offers everything the average user would need. Because I'm a web designer, who has to test everything in Internet Explorer (used by 97% of the population). With a product like this, I can quickly boot up a selection of IE versions in different MS OSs whilst getting all the advantages of Linux for development.
an i say this in all seriousness.. why? why do you need this? seriously if you are going to use windows apps in emulation mode, either install windows or go for the better althernative OSX.
I switched to osx from linux 2 weeks ago, and it is wonderfult o be abel to use my linux apps under X11 while running word, ie and a bunch of commercial games. OSX is the best thing to use if you want unix and commercial app and game support.
Why emualate a third class OS when you have option of using it natively under *nix?
The war with islam is a war on the beast
The war on terror is a war for peace
This 5.0 release seem pretty pointless to me. Win95/98/Me has never been in use in any sane production environment. Either people are still using NT or they've moved on to 2000/XP a long time ago.
If this should have been useful it would have had to emulate 2000/XP as well. IMHO this is near pointless software.
Since when is windows free? Last I checked XP pro was around $180 and XP Home was $100. If you building a $1000 machine that is roughly a 10% or 20% increase to the cost of the system.
Do you mean free as in if you buy a preloaded computer from a vendor then you don't see it factored into the price?
k
Comment removed based on user account deletion
For some strange reason, Win4Lin gets mentioned several times at Slashdot. This uses SCO technology for the past 15 years. Here's a link:
g y. php?PHPSESSID=5ed8e1d8cb2384cbb6523ec150ee5779
http://www.netraverse.com/products/wts/technolo
Seeing MS is licensing SCOde, XP shouldn't be a problem - for now.
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
Let's admit it, Gimp ****ing s***s
Hmm, not to kind to the GIMP development team and I happen to know a lot of GIMP users who disagree with that statement. It works for me and many others. Maybe you should read more, or just be happy with using your own tools, or in the alternative convince the software makers of the applications that you want them on Linux? Seems like that could get you what you want better than criticizing the GIMP team, which doesn't get you what you want.
Not a flame, just a comment.
All Ad hominem replies happily ignored as the sender shall be deemed to lack the faculties to comprehend the equation.
It's modded down because the question doesn't make sense.
It's like saying, "If it's illegal to steal gum from the candy store, then why is that guy chewing gum???"
Win4Lin will run Windows (98 it sounds like) under Linux. It runs Windows. It runs the Windows that Microsoft created, and that you already paid for (ideally). It does not emulate Windows other than a few things like passing of the clipboard, but even so, they're not using any Microsoft code, they are simply interfacing with Windows.
Again. In short. It runs Windows (TM) under Linux. They did not rewrite Windows, even though that would be nice.
8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
What coders who copy Windows? You do realize that to install Win4Lin, you need to already own a Win9X CD. You go through the entire Windows installation process, including loading the Windows CD and typing in a valid product ID code. An entire standard Win9X installation is created on your PC, it just happens to live in a Linux file system.
Funny that you bring up SCO. Win4Lin is based on a DOS-virtualization technology called "merge" that SCO has also used. Here is a summary I found of its very convoluted history. (Google cache; real page is broken.)
Production environments moved to Windows 2000+ years ago because of operating stability issues encountered when running Windows 9x based systems. Nevermind the inherent security issues that plagued the operating system when the user is assumed to be the administrator of the machine.
Production environments that have selected Linux as their "host" operating system have already made a good choice in selecting a stable, secure operating system. Allowing their users to still be able to use "modern" Windows software (for various reasons) is priceless.
I used to work for a company which deployed Linux throughout. However, various assignments for software development required the use of Visual Studio, which runs just fine under Windows 98 - but, as you can imagine, has a difficulty running under Linux. I purchased Win4Lin 3.0 - and the flexibility (and speed), yet convenience of not having to install Windows was absolutely fantastic.
Ayup
Yeah, it's bad to comment on sigs, but I had to laugh...
"DISCLAIMER: The views expressed hereafter are not necessarily those of MENSA, which I am only a member of."
How about "of which I am only a member"?
LOL!
Uh... hate to break it to you, but game developers aren't going to release their games for Linux regardless. The market is just too small. Every developer who has released anything for Linux has done so for one of two reasons: 1) to provide a dedicated server package only, since Linux makes an excellent server platform and you don't have to deal with graphics in a dedicated server, 2) Because they want to.
It makes absolutely no financial sense to release a game for Linux -- the market is too small, the market you're going after (individuals running Linux as opposed to corporations) is too hostile to commercial development, and the graphics support is generally completely different from what you have available in Windows (yeah, it's the same if you write for OpenGL, but there's a helluva lot more support for writing DirectX).
Yes, I run Linux. I also run Windows. Linux makes for an excellent server, an incredible development platform, and it's just fine for web surfing, but I still wouldn't recommend it as a desktop replacement to the average user, nor as a gaming box. Windows is a mediocre server, fine for web surfing, a decent development platform (obviously better than Linux if you're developing for Windows exclusively, but I'm a Unix coder so I'm biased), and a great gaming platform. Use the platforms where they perform well... if you want to use any single platform for all tasks, well, you're going to have gnashing of teeth whenever you hit the weak spots.
The obvious question is, how do you solve those weak spots, and I don't have a really good answer. But as far as gaming goes, I do suspect the answer will be improve Windows emulation, not try and woo developers over to Linux. It's a harsh reality.
to run win4lin you have to have a windows distro cd. at that point you might as well just run a dual boot system or even a separate box. plus, after using linux for years, i have yet to find a reason to have to go back to using windows (sure there are some win exclusive aps out there, but you can dual boot into those if you need to). all i see win4lin as is a nice hack, but a rahter bothersome and slow way to run windows if you honestly have to.
-Cnik
Posix - all games should be coded to this standard, and they could run on any Posix compliant OS. (This ad sponsored by the UN. Please submit all comments in Esperanto.)
cabg x3 is a life changing event...
1) Unreal Tournment 2003, Enemy Territory, Quake3, Neverwinter Nights, etc. And much, much more with Wine such as Soldier of Fortune 2.
2) Grip, VERY good CD Ripping app. Will auto download CDDB, run the encoder of your choice, etc. As for raytracing Povray can do a lot too, but you just need a good modeler, such as Kpovmodeler. As for a one click installer, check out RPMs or RedHat's Package Management System, looks just like Install Shield.
3) KDE,Gnome,etc. You DO know that they can be themed to look just like the crappy Windows GUI too don't you?
There's a whole bunch of reasons why Games Developers don't tend to write Linux games, and they've got nothing to do with Windows emulators.
1) It's pretty difficult to get most games to run with Windows emulators anyway
2) There's hardly any market for Linux games. It's quite a lot of effort for very few sales. (You have to remember that it's very difficult to make a profit with Windows games, let alone Linux ones...)
3) Support is even harder than it is for Windows. There's just so many different distributions and configurations of Linux. If you look at the big 3D packages, for example, they'll often only support you on a couple of distributions - e.g. Redhat 7.3 or 8.
4) 3D and sound tend to be much harder to set up, and the drivers tend not to be supported by the hardware manufacturers.
5) The libraries are not as good. The SDL is certainly a step in the right direction, but it's just not as mature or well documented as DirectX.
Even if the windows emulators didn't exist, there'd still be hardly any commercial games written for Linux.
Oh... And it should be "heretofore", not "hereafter". LOL!
Ok, perhaps this whole MENSA disclaimer was completely dry humor and you were actually already aware of the two grammitcal mistakes...?
If that's the case, it IS funny. =D
I am astounded at the backlash the readers of ./ have vented at Netraverse. You people have never tried the product, but are willing to make unfounded claims about its speed and ability. I have used Win4Lin since the release of version 4, and I can tell you why you would use it, how it runs, and why it is cool:
I use it to encode videos in DivX format. DivX.com is the partner with one of my clients, and they do not have a encoding app for my mac, and the linux version is not as flexible (CLI) as the windows codec. So I run Adobe Premiere, Virtual Dub, and DivX 5.0.2 from within Linux! Prior to Win4Lin I had to reboot my machine to get into win2k for encoding. This has saved me so much time and frustration it is amazing. Also, I can simply back up the windows related directories (which are installed in my home folder on linux) and then I never have to install windows again, I can just install Win4Lin and restore the directories complete with programs, file associations, and serial numbers!
Win4Lin is fast! I noticed an incredible speed difference with windows 98 on a PIII 533 with 512 MB RAM! The OS booted in seconds even with Linux running with all of the bells and whistles of KDE (most of them anyways). Windows 98 is much, much snapier. And if it crashes (win98), I can easily kill the process and restart it in seconds! No rebooting, no headaches.
Finally, if you, as a geek, can not see the inherent coolness of running a virtual OS at higher than native speeds from within Linux, then you are no geek of mine... I have messed with WINE for years, hours of frustration to get the most basic apps working... but for a nominal fee (sometimes closed source is okay) I can get more work done, spend less time in windows, save my uptime, and forget about rebooting headaches! Have you ever tried to emulate win98 with VirtualPC on a mac?!? If you need windows, and your apps require speed, Win4Lin is the way to go. Period.
Ideally, Win4Lin would be open source, but these people have coded an incredible piece of software which was, to me, well worth the licensing fee! I don't need the true bloat of win2k or XP (nor do I need the EULA headaches!) all I need is a few win32 apps (for encoding video) and win4lin pulls this off for me with relative ease. No you can't play games, but shouldn't you be working anyways? Honestly, the waste of doing this with win2k or XP is obvious. If you just need the apps, you usually won't need all of the services and overhead that come with the latest versions of windows. Win98 runs most programs (albeit somewhat unstable) very quickly, it is solid in the sense that Linux isn't going to be brought down with it, it boots like a madman, and it does just about everything I need.
Quit being cheap, buy a copy and try it out. The support is very responsive, they have an active mailing list, and it actually does what the company claims. A successful Linux only vendor who provides support, upgrades, and a useful product. This is a model for other vendors regardless of OS!
for anyone wondering
95 is already considered obsolete
98 receives no free support after the end of this month, none at all after the end of this year (basically)
ME is unsupported at the end of the year as well
..but I still can't sell this to the Big Wigs upstairs.
Why? Because Windows 98 is on its way out. All of our proprietary software runs in Windows 95/98, but the new version coming out next month uses Windows 98 and up ONLY. I expect next year (or maybe 2005) it will be phased out much like Windows 95.
Let's face it, not one new machine built today comes with Windows 98 SE. And let's not get into the train wreck that was ME.
What I'm saying is we can't deploy linux on a large scale, even if it will run on our propriety software, until I know it will last at least 3 years (the usual PC-replacement development cycle).
So while I'd love to get this up and running for The Powers that Be, until something that's even more advanced and is guaranteed to support Windows 2000 or XP only apps comes along, no endorsement here can be made.
Of course, the irony is that were we to support this and purchase it for our organization that it would fund the win2k/xp only program support, however, just giving it the once over, what about USB devices such as WinCE devices (yes, a lot of execs do use them...my Tungsten T is the one palm of the whole place), printers, et al. Plus all the weird hardware that my org. relies on, such as high load scanners.
And if you've had any time in sys admining, vendors love to blame things like odd operating systems if their buggy software doesn't work the first time out.
Sigh. I push Linux every time I can around here (I'm the resident Linux Guy of the IT dept.), but it's just not there yet.
Almost all (Windows) 3D nowadays is either DirectX or OpenGL. I'll ignore the former for a moment and stick to OpenGL. How hard can it be to 'emulate' a glVertex3f call? Ok, I'm not saying it is trivial, but it must be a lot easier than the average Win32 API call. I mean, the function already exists anywhere you have OpenGL.
Back to DirectX or rather Direct3D... although this uses COM interfaces, the functions available are pretty similar to those in OpenGL. Now there will be a number of 'slow' functions (loading a large texture), but these will always be slow. A little more overhead won't make a huge difference. There are only a few functions (vertex, texture coordinates, normals etc) which get called really often. It is here that optimization efforts should be directed. Not easy, but should be easier than the entire Win API.
I will admit to ignoring the problems of X being a network protocol rather than a graphics one. I suspect that to reach optimal frame rates you wouldn't want to run DirextX games in an X window on another terminal over the network. But unix has always done well at allowing multiple 'terminals', so do it that way.
That being the case, Win4Lin gives us an out, although you're spot on that Win98 support is dwindling. Maybe Win4Lin and similar emulators/software bridges will give users like me an offramp from Windows upgrades in future? I'd like to think so.
- Jack
I mean, people like to rag on the gimp, like "oh we need photoshop, we are so leeeet", but 99.9% of the time they are just ego pumping I've found.
8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
Excel.
:)
Note for those from academic backgrounds: Excel is not just a grid of numbers
Whence? Hence. Whither? Thither.
"This is the sort of pedantry up with which I will not put!"
- Winston Churchill
bah. Mensa members aren't right in the head.
Disclaimer: I was a Mensa member. I am no longer a member.
Opinionated Law Student Strikes Again!
It doesn't matter that Windows 98 is a bit old. I suppose most people only need one or two Windows programs on their linux box. In that case, Windows 98 is quite stable and fast. Much faster than Windows 2000, I think. If you install a dozen of programs, Windows 98 will become sluggish and cluttered (anyway, my copy does) so Windows 2000 may be better..
;)
Of course, it depends on what you mean by 'production environment'. If it's a nuclear plant, I wouldn't trust Windows at all. And Windows in an emulator would even be less attractive..
History matters..
Lately the trend seems to be, IMHO, to target games primarily for the game consoles, and not windows. Therefore, I would agree with the parent post, although for different reasons. The PC game market is shrinking period.
I guess I never saw the need to directly connect to my bank with GNUcash, because I track every purchase I make as soon as I make it. I don't wait to update things from my bank; maybe I'm just obsessive. But really, I can't see saving a whole operating system just for THAT, since you can do it by exporting/importing files, which must take all of 5 minutes longer, so let's move on.
Never used Streets and Trips, just the free Mapquest online. Guess I can't comment, but does it run in WINE?
Assuming you could connect to your work VPN, several companies have solutions for connecting to Exchange servers. Ximian and Bynari come to mind. One wonders why your work is using a non-standard VPN instead of something like IPSEC, but I guess you probably don't have control over that. Are you completely certain that there's nothing to connect to it? A freshmeat search is sometimes enlightening.
For games, I decided to take the money I might have spent on Windows and associated software and buy a PS2. No crashes, hardware lasts for years without being "obsolete", and has more RPGs than I can reasonably play.
DVDs? I usually watch them on a DVD player, but I don't mind using DeCSS to watch them on my computer, as I don't consider any legislation against it to be constitutional. Maybe you don't feel the same way, but is your PC really your only DVD player? True, the fan noise from my PCs is less than the aquarium/central air noise downstairs, but I can't imagine that's true for most people (who don't have a 125 gallon saltwater tank directly behind their loveseat).
I use Linux for everything, and have for years. The one Windows-only program I wanted to run worked flawlessly with WINE, no setup required. Amusingly, there was a cautionary note that users of 95/98 might need to download some extra libraries.
WMBC freeform/independent online radio.
Hmm
I can't answer to all of your issues, but you certainly can connect a linux box to an M$ PPTP VPN.
The project is open source and sponsored by HP.
You've got that all wrong! SCO licenses the technology from NetTraverse, not vice versa. It doesn't use any SCO code and you do them a disservice for claiming otherwise.
As a user of win4lin I have to disagree.
Would people have felt this way about SCO technology a year ago? How about two years ago? I doubt it. So now I'm to punish Netraverse for not having the ability to forsee SCO's actions years in advance even though I myself didn't?
Thanks to Netraverse's product I now have 6 GNU/Linux ternimals running KDE where windows only boxes used to set. The users are doing less and less inside windows as they find *nix equivilents that work as well, if not better, than their windows counterparts. The installs under win4lin are more stable and require less support time. The product is solid and Netraverse's techincal support staff have been nothing short of amazing in dealing with issues that have cropped up.
While I have no desire to support SCO I have even less desire to punish a company like Netraverse for something that is clearly beyond their control.
To add to the other reply:
1. I play mostly RPGs, and I have found all I need from console systems. They are designed to play games, and they are better at it. When something along the lines of Final Fantasy Tactics or Xenosaga comes out for Windows and not the PS2, then maybe I'll worry. I submit that the "average user" is likely to have a console game system, as keeping up with the hardware/software for PC games can be intimidating and costly.
2. You really picked a bad example for ripping CDs, since nothing under Windows matches the quality of cdparanoia (unless it's been ported), and there are about 8 billion CD ripping/burning/MP3&Ogg encoding programs on freshmeat. Personally, I use abcde; one command contacts CDDB (or a Free clone), rips, tags, and names all of the tracks for me. Very configurable, very easy.
As for packaging systems, when InstallShield can update 99% of the software on your system with two commands, then I'll be impressed. Under Windows, I'd need to keep track myself of when each application releases a new version, then download and install them separately, from different locations.
3. No, the Windows GUI is unfamiliar and uncomfortable to me, as I don't use it regularly. It's harder to get work done. They also change it with every release. Finally, "familiar" does not necessarily mean "easiest to use" or "best".
There ARE still things which require Windows, but they're likely to be large, specific things like AutoCAD.
WMBC freeform/independent online radio.
There's no Linux equivalent to Microsoft Money, for example -- not something that can connect to my bank automatically and get statements and process transfers without having to import and export qif files. Same with Microsoft Streets&Trips -- there's simply no equivalent.
Actually there is a great equivalent to Microsoft Mondey, it's called Moneydance. It does all the that MM does and it runs on Windows, Linux, MacOS, Solaris and many other platforms. Not only that, but the data files are transfurable between platforms (Quicken doesn't do that). Take a look, I recommend it.
http://www.moneydance.com/
(BTW, I do not work for, nor do I have a personal stake in the company that makes Mondeydance, I just like the product.)
In console world it is becoming more common for games to be released on more then one platform.
Why is this? Perhaps and I could be mistaken, because game developers don't want to be to tied to a platform owner who is often a direct comptetitor by developing their own games.
Produce a game for the DirectX platform and you are making MS more powerfull. MS who is directly competing with you for market share.
Furthermore MS has been found guilty of using secret parts of api's to boost their own apps over that of outsiders. Who can tell if the same is not happening with DirectX, if not now then perhaps in the future?
Cross platform coding, once you get over the initial hurdle is not as complex as you may think, lets not forget that game coders are pretty much at the top. Starting to get experience with cross platform issues now may safe you being locked in at a later stage.
Don't forget until windows 95 you always dropped out of windows when you wanted to play a game. And even with 95 it often paid to go into dos mode. (remember quake loosing half the available memory when run from windows)
It is not unreasoble to make sure that if something changes in the next 5 years (not long in game development terms) you prepare to be ready.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Indesign is hardly an "industry standard", as many publishing houses still won't deal with it. The real industry standard for publishing is, tragically, Quark XPress. If you are the type of person who thinks Windows has gone bad due to a lack of pressure to fix itself because of its monopoly position, Quark will make you feel better about your life (unless you have to use it). Even at version 5, we are told that we cannot open files directly from a fileserver; we are supposed to copy them to the local machine first, and copy them back when we are done, because Quark "was not designed to operate across a network." What year is this again? 1980? Maybe if your software DIDN'T require gobs of memory and CPU, didn't corrupt files all too frequently, and didn't crash randomly, I might put up with your backwards attitude. Ugh.
(oh, and really, XMMS is pretty much an exact clone of WinAMP).
WMBC freeform/independent online radio.
Sorry I forgot one little thing. If linux has nothing to do with games. Then why did Sony release their own version of linux for their console? Surely they didn't do it just because they like the penguin?
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
VMWare has been providing the ability to run nearly all modern OSes that are available for x86 - the caveat is in its virtualization of computer resources which leads to a performance hit; one that Win4Lin focuses on dealing with by utilizing the existing facilities in a Linux box for its actual Windows process.
I think as of 3.0 (3.2.1/4.0 are current), VMWare has the ability to access raw internal devices (IDE/SCSI) as well as provide support for external USB devices with excellent OS-to-OS transparency. You can find out more about their Workstation software by clicking here.
Most Windows applications have no problem running under Windows 9x (especially 98+). It is true that Microsoft is phasing out applications from running on their legacy Win9x operating systems, the rest of the world is still supporting Windows 9x+ and will do so when it because unfeasible to do so within their operating budgets.
Win4Lin allows people to run Windows applications at almost native speeds (if not a wee bit faster) than a true Windows 9x system, while still allowing their systems to be stable and Linux based. Where VMWare has the ability to run modern Windows operating systems (NT based), it does so with a penalty on performance and system requirements.
I can only assume that Win4Lin is going to pursue the same type of support for NT based Windows when Windows 9x is retired from the list of eligible operating systems that can run Windows software. But for now, it will serve to bridge the gap quite nicely.
Ayup
What is news and what is not should be decided according to their own merits, not because the editors have (or should have) a political axe to grind.
Unless you wish to live in an imaginary bubble where everything is just the way you want it to be, instead of hearing how things really are.
Sorry for shouting, but this is getting crazy! People are slamming NeTraverse for using SCO technology and are even calling to boycott NeTraverse. That is simply untrue. Below is a quote from Jim Curtin, the CEO of NeTraverse: "Win4Lin is not built on technology licensed from SCO. SCO licenses technology from NeTraverse as an OEM and packages the technology on their UNIX platforms under our name "Merge". We do not license anything from SCO (nor do we need to)." People should check their facts before posting accusations and calls to boycott. They (the posters) have done NeTraverse and the Slashdot community a grave diservice. Instead of boycotting Win4Lin, maybe the posters should go out and by a copy to make amends for the mis-information they've spread and the harm they've done. Dcnjoe60 NOTE: I have no affiliation, whatsoever with NeTraverse, Win4Lin, Jim Curtin or SCO. I just think the record should be set straight on this one issue.
How odes Win4Lin compaire to it?
There are 10 type of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
You are mistaken!
Win4Lin's kernel patches are not binary only, they are patches. Debian isn't supported, officially, but it works; I have two computers running Debian with Win4Lin working on them.
You apply two patches: the "MKI adaptor" patch, which just adds a new interface to the kernel, and the Win4Lin kernel patch. I just built a 2.4.21 kernel last night with the 2.4.21 version of the Win4Lin kernel patch. No problems.
The only regrettable part with Win4Lin: it doesn't work with kernel preemption, or with the low-latency patches. I hate it when my Ogg music skips on playback, so I always ran the low-latency patches before I got Win4Lin. Now I can't.
If you want to build a custom kernel with Win4Lin support, go ahead and do it. As long as you don't have preemption or low-latency it should work.
I look forward to kernel 2.6.x, as I'm sure Win4Lin will be made to work with it (Netraverse does a good job of customer support) and 2.6.x will have huge improvements with respect to latency.
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
P.S. Minnesota is a wonderful state to live in.
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
My only DVD player is in my computer.
But, consider that I live in a one bedroom apartment and my monitor is as close to the couch as the TV... and is bigger than the TV... and my computer has a better sound system... and I download most of my movies and only own a few DVDs.
It cost money, or you have to use a POS shareware program with nags, to burn and manage ISOs under anything older than XP.
Whereas under Linux you just stick the stuff in a directory, run mkisofs on the directory, and run a program I can't think of the name of to put it on a CD.
You know, it's amazingly lame that Windows goes around including the kitchen sink, but doesn't do stuff OSes actually should do, like manage file systems like ISOs, and devices like CD burners. Device access and filesystem access are actually what OSes should do.
And, yes, I'm aware XP finally got CD burning tools.
Also, I'm not aware of how Linux's CD ripping tools are lacking. I remember having no problems at all with a crappy CD several years ago. Whereas I remember having to download shareware stuff for Windows. And yes, I know that Windows Media Player can now rip CDs, so basically I'd consider them about equal now. (Despite the silliness of having an MP3 encoder with the OS and no CD writer.)
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
Folks,
;-)
Win4Lin is not built on technology licensed from SCO. SCO licenses technology from NeTraverse as an OEM and packages the technology on their UNIX platforms under our name "Merge". We do not license anything from SCO (nor do we need to). From time to time we have used wording on our web site and in our literature that is accurate but perhaps on a quick read might be misconstrued. The comment "Win4Lin Terminal Server 2.0 is derived from proven technologies developed for Unix® based operating systems over the last 15 years, most notably those of SCO® (Caldera®), under the product name of Merge(tm)" is meant to convey that our technology has been in use on SCO variants of UNIX for some time - not that it is based on SCO technology. SCO Merge (or Sun Merge, or whatever Merge) is our product.
Rather than try and clarify the language on our web site, we will be taking it off
I hope this clears up the misinformation.
Jim Curtin
CEO NeTraverse
and get that +5 grandparent back down ...
One simple rule for its versus it's
Yeah, it's bad to comment on sigs, but I had to laugh...
"DISCLAIMER: The views expressed hereafter are not necessarily those of MENSA, which I am only a member of."
How about "of which I am only a member"?
And how about "The views expressed above...?"
-- dR.fuZZo
In my ongoing attempt to Learn to Love Linux, I tried installing Cygwin at home on my Windows XP. It crashed. No doubt this is due to some trojan planted by Bill the Gates in order to keep me from Linux rather than just a, uh, crap installer.
P.
But Bochs can (very slowly, but still).
I love VMware by the way. It's one truely useful tool.
The ratio of people to cake is too big
http://216.239.41.100/search?q=cache:UIxZ_jqTcxgJ: www.mail-archive.com/gnhlug-discuss%40mail.gnhlug. org/msg03722.html+win4lin+merge+sco&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
One simple rule for its versus it's
I'm just wondering: Couldn't you push Linux for the things that Linux is good for? Get two or three machines for starters, just running the servers?
Then get one to two for work, and on those put Win4Lin. Argue that as a supplement, it's better. Then when someone wants to be using MS Word, they'll think "Fast or slow? I'll pick fast."
Next, start pushing hiring decisions in favor of those who know how to use and program Linux, where their spare time could be used to help script and such.
Doing it this way, you could argue that the company depends less on any one system, and is more resilient for surprise customer requests.
Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
But yet you had the time to surf on over to /. and post that comment, didn't you?
> How about running Linux on Windows?
Here it is:
http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html
"This product uses SCOde"
Umm, I'm sure you realize of course that this is old SCO we're talking aobut for the original code... New SCO group doesn't look to me as being seriously interested in creating anything other than work for lawyers. But in any case NeTraverse licensed and paid for the code prior to all this occuring, advocating punishing them for things that are completely out of their control is wrong! Not only that, it is short-sighted. Irresponsible zealots, think about this: Netraverse could have come forward and did a MS. "Look, we respect IP, we paid for blah blah blah..." So, my short-sighted zealot, you want to give them a reason to provide bad press?
"and isn't suited for true Linux enthusiasts."
Which you sir most certainly are not. Isn't linux supposed to be about freedom of choice? Oh wait, or is that only so long as you don''t decide of your own free will to use commercial software? Or so long as yopu only use zealot-approved software?
Get real, your position is no more tenable than Microsoft's position. Open Source is not the one true way. Closed Source is not the one true way. They are polar extremes, and as in reality (the one the rest of us live in and my zealot friend denies) the real answer lies somewhere in the middle. Where in the middle is a function of who you are and what you want to accomplish. It is not a moral deficiency to use commercial software to accomplish a task. Further, using freeware to accomplish a task in preference to commercial software better capable of accomplishing the task is not moral, it is stupid, short-sighted, and counter-productive.
Allthough I use Linux for 90% of my computinbg tasks, I recognize that the other 10% my computing time is better handled by other platforms. On my linux servers are a variety of free and commercial products. Again, I use the best tool for me to accomplish the required work in the least time, with the least aggravation.
I am sick and tired of the Linux zealots though, Linux is not for everyone, it is not God's own operating system. The world doesn't need a Society of Linus (Linuits?) running around putting everyone who doesn't accept their perceived moral superiority to fire and sword.
Please be responsible in your advocacy.
Although a migration to XP is planned for sometime this year, Windows 95 is used here at the Dept. of Fisheries and Oceans, Govt. of Canada.
(I use GNU/Linux and have Win4Lin installed for the occasional corporate Word file.)
True consoles are out there, but they've been out there for a very long time. The PC game market is not shrinking and neither are the consoles. The entire game market continues expanding period.
I don't see any trend targetting primarily for consoles, in fact the trend is to market to everyone I see more and more games that are availible for all platforms and consoles. I'll spare you a long list but here are a few, Splinter Cell, every movie based game, Hulk, Enter the Matrix, Spiderman, Midnight Club 2, Soul Caliber 2(no PC).
Then you have games that are on only one console and only the PC, GTA: Vice City, Halo (eventually).
The point is PC gaming is not going to diminish and neither are consoles. They both attract different gamers.
-- taking over the world, we are.
I have Win4Lin and will no longer use it.
The Kernel modifications necessary to run it are too much to keep up with. Everytime you upgrade you have to either wait on them to build a kernel or patch the kernel yourself. And they do not come out with new patches quickly. And they only seem to support the kernel that ships with your linux distribution.
It's a shame that they seem either not able to or refuse to incorporate their patch in the kernel. If they did then this would be a very cool package. As is, it works fine, just locks you into the shipping kernel or a home patched kernel to use it everytime you upgrade.
Simple, X/Cygwin in rootless mode ssh -X over to a spare old box, start up your lil window manager (I like fluxbox) and boom! Linux on Windows.
(Don't start a 3D game while having an X/Cygwin session open though, you'll lose it for some reason, at least under XP)
-- taking over the world, we are.
most of the mensoids I've met are irksome, ill-adjusted freaks.
And this makes them different from slashdotters, how?
As far as that goes, I'm not convinced that it even addresses the issue of "value to society." An irksome, ill-adjusted freak may very well be more valuable to society than a "normal" person. Or not.
Individuals are different.
Ignorance killed the cat. Curiosity was framed.
(Oh, and for the cheap shot, Scheme?! It's a graphics program! Er, anyway.)
Basically, the GIMP interface sucks, sucks, SUCKS!
The GIMP is very powerful and can probably compete with Photoshop based on the feature-set, but damn does its interface suck. I keep on thinking about writing a new interface that doesn't suck, but I just haven't had the time or inclination to really try. Maybe GIMP 2.0 will be better in this respect. GIMP 1.2's interface is a joke.
With all due respect to the developers :)
To try and bring in some constructive critism, here are some things to do for a new interface:
I'm sure there are other things, but this is a brief list to change this from a troll to critism :)
You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
Said the fabled Anonymous Coward.
HI, MY NAME IS ISAAC.
There's no Linux equivalent to Microsoft Money
Your right but GnuCash is pretty darn close... It now supports OFX imports, and the great thing about GnuCash... You don't have to pay for upgrades, as soon as there is an open source tax software, or plugin I think it will be better.
Same with Microsoft Streets&Trips -- there's simply no equivalent.
Use mapquest. No I am just kidding on that one, I don't know if there is an equivelant. That software came with your laptop / computer didn't it?
I can't connect a Linux box to my work's VPN either -- there's no working client.
We use Cisco VPN's they have a client for linux, the funny thing is that you can find them almost anywhere, especially around university's... Your work's configuration might be different, but there usually is good docs that you can follow For Example.
And if I managed to do so, what would I use to connect to the Exchange server to get my emails and appointments?
Ximian's Evolution is very outlook like, and Ximian Connector works with Exchange, I wouldn't say flawlessly, due to speed issues that I seem to be having, it looks like it connects to the Exchange server over port 80 but I could be wrong, however it works, to manage appointments, contacts, global contacts, and mail.
Linux games are few and far between, especially 3D games.
Oh, and watching DVDs? (Legally, that is)
Oh so watching DVD's on any Lindows box is illegal? And most of the extremely popular FPS games have a native linux port and if not come pretty darn close from WineX (I play WCIII on Redhat 7.1, can't play any Half Life game though)
What sucks is even though this is a rebuttle I agree whole heartedly. That is why open formats are so important, it allows consumers choices. The more consumers that make companies realize that they want open standards, the better it is for all of us.
"It takes many nails to build a crib, but one screw to fill it."
Depends what you want to do. Win4Lin blows VMWare away in terms of speed. If you truly need to emulate your computer at the hardware level and need to be able to test stuff under multiple OSs, VMWare makes sense. If, however, you just need to run some Windows apps reliably then Win4Lin is the best choice. There is no comparison when it comes to speed.
Win4Lin runs my Windows applications (QuickBooks, Word, VB and VC++, etc.) *FASTER* under Win4Lin+Win98 than WinXP did on the same exact computer. I.e., my Windows apps run faster now that I use Linux+Win4Lin instead of WinXP.
Before purchasing Win4Lin I also evaluated VMWare and decided that for my needs Win4Lin made more sense. And was cheaper, too.
Because sometimes you need a 98 app and its convenient/better to use it under Linux. Like say web development with Dream Weaver or checking compatibility with Internet Explorer. There are numerous reasons.
;-)
I think a better question would be whatâ(TM)s with that OSX spellcheck?
I switched to osx from linux 2 weeks ago, and it is wonderfult o be abel to use..
Quack, quack.
Well, there is an $89.99 downloadable version, and a $99.99 Box Set version, but there does not appear to be a free version.
Life sucks, but death doesn't put out at all....
--Thomas J. Kopp
And Linux does have UDF support, it's just not in the standard kernel. So I'd call it about 50% support, it's about as working as CD-ROM burning is under ME...you need to go get tools to use it.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
"...so that one can run Windows 9x (95/98/Me) inside GNU/Linux..."
Why in god's name would you ever want to?
t_t_b
I'm on PJ's "enemies" list! Are you?
I personally use WineX for old Windows games, but stick to native Linux for newer ones - anything that isn't native I simply don't buy (I choose to vote with my wallet).
:)))
As for needing Windows, unfortunately, as a programmer I frequently get paid for writing software for Windows (you can only eat so much pride before you need some real food) - all I did was buy a crap low end box (P3 733, 256Mb RAM - cost me about £150), install Windows 2000 on it, run it headless with VNC and just control it remotely from Linux - perfect and all with free, open source software! (obviously excepting the Micro$oft bit but Win4Lin doesn't take away the need for that, does it?)
Win4Lin still sounds like a decent product - it just wouldn't suit me. My way, I keep the actual physical touching of a filthy Windows box to a minimum
Or can I run Plan 9 or something in it?
And many would say that there would be no individuals without a nurturing society. Humans are inheritly social animals.
Really? I was sure they have, at least VMware. Is there any reason they shouldn't support 3-D?
Lindows is not "just a Linux distribution." It is meant to be a cheap Windows substitution. Most of the people without technical knowledge are sure that Lindows runs everything which is written for Windows. We all know how it is in practice, but most of people don't.
Have you seen this list? I would say that 150 screenfuls of games is quite impressive, in my opinion.
Karma: Positive (probably because of superiour intellect)
You are probably right. I sometimes get a little bit paranoid, wondering if Wine might be a Microsoft conspiracy just to say to game developers: "Do you want your games to be portable? Then use DirectX and Win32 API!" You know what I mean... I'm just worried about Steve's and Bill's evil laughter while they think about us emulating their APIs, supporting their file formats, and otherwise getting dependent on them. But I'm probably wrong. Or at the very least I do really hope so...
Karma: Positive (probably because of superiour intellect)
I don't know what I find the most insulting: that you said I am dumb, that you called me an "ass," or that you suggested I might work for Microsoft. Do you think I would advertise GNU on my user informations page, if I worked for Microsoft? I don't think so. As a matter of fact, I don't even use proprietary software and I find it offensive, that you are implying I have no moral standards suggesting, that I could write such a software.
Karma: Positive (probably because of superiour intellect)
I have to agree with you. Humans are indeed animals. I doubt they will ever learn...
Karma: Positive (probably because of superiour intellect)
But you have to admit, that we are a little bit more intelligent, than they are.
Karma: Positive (probably because of superiour intellect)
...because they can work quickly.
Win4Lin is much faster than the other emulation layers. On my machine it runs faster than native Windows ever did. Also, you should keep in mind that the maximum amount of memory that Win4lin will allow is 128MB.
Even if this wasn't the case, the memory space for Windows programs is separate for the one for Linux, so it pays to have an OS that is slim. Win2k and XP AREN'T that. Windows 2000 and XP are arguably the best, but because of stability, not performance. In this case, the underlying OS can be stable.
Is it crashes you're worried about? It doesn't seem like as much of an issue when a "reboot" takes three seconds.
I just wish they'd do message passing between DirectX and DRI. Right now Win4Lin 5.0 has directX, but it's software based. I'm sure they're saving that for version 5.0 so that they can make more money.
Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
Get real - Netraverse keeps up rather well - you just need to check your expectations a bit.
I found that in general you can expect the newest kernel patch to be supported within a few weeks...
What did you expect for your $50 licence?
There is a tradeoff here, like with anything in life - get used to it, or pay them for faster turnaround - I'm sure they'd love to have those patches out the next day!
Jan
Try getting these to run under Linux. Good luck.
When it comes right down to it, you can run VMWare or Win4Lin. No other choice is really viable now.
With Win4Lin & Samba I can run Linux on a corporate network, and not lose out on anything! When I need to do a PPT presentation - no problem, run Win4Lin full screen and you're good to go. My laptop gets an extra ~30 minutes of runtime under Linux, I get to use a sane development environment, and my co-workers don't have to worry about OpenOffice files getting garbled.
This isn't for servers, and this isn't for most end-users. This is for developers.
Jan
I was a huge fan of Win4Lin 3.0, and I thought it was well worth the money. Over the course of time, I got frustrated with it because of a few problems I had with the printer port (probably my error, not W4L3), and Winsock2 based apps (like Kazaa Lite, etc). I didn't want to use Vnet and have a second IP in use.
Netraverse sent me an email with the $29.99 upgrade price, and I jumped on it once I saw the Winsock2 upgrade stuff. I wanted to note that for some reason, I had to uninstall Win4Lin 3.0 because it kept complaining that the code (Netraverse GAVE me) wasn't an "upgrade code", but a "full install" code.
I installed it fresh, and 'lo and behold, my printer worked flawlessly, and Kazaa Lite no longer hangs for indefinite amounts of time. It's just really fast and stable, and a nice thing to have in a time of need.
Nowadays though, I don't really run it that often. Its there in case I need to print something a boss sends in Office (that must LOOK IDENTICAL on the printed page, something OO can't mimic right), or for Kazaa or Photoshop (its what I am used to from school).
Bottom Line: Win4Lin 5.0 is the best route for perfect compatibility and speed of Win32 applications. I use WineX for the games (Diablo II in incredible with it!)
DrPascal: Not the language, the mathematician.
If a GUI cannot be copywrited, then why was Apple allowed to sue (and win) people over Aqua like Window Blinds themes.
-]Phreak Out[-
Perhaps I'm in the 2nd category - I'm finalizing development of a software application that's based on PHP-GTK and while we're targeting windows development, given the toolkit, there *will* be a Linux version as well.
Now, it's not a game, but it's production software targeting the education sector....
Guess I'm in the 2nd category?
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
Don't you mean,
..... of MENSA, OF which I am only a member.
?
I am a dog; what's your problem?
I guess my pointing out the SCO reference has helped your firm in that you've re-worded the page (sensibly, I might add). A casual reader is still left with the impression that your product uses (proprietary?, copyright? patented? trade secret?) System V code, currently being brandished as a weapon by SCO.
May I suggest you remove all Unix references from your technology page? BTW, seeing you don't license anything from SCO, do you have unbridled access to SysV code? A certain Eric Raymond might like to hear from you.
Thank you.
PS (to moderators): I see my parent post is modded down to -1 (Insightful). If it's modded back to +5, readers are bound to benefit when they read these clarifications - thanks.
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
Yes, Wine runs SOF2 out of the box, it's OpenGL game so yes it's 3D. Also, please get with the times. RH9 came out a while ago, nothing wrong with the package manager in it. Maybe you should run up2date and upgrade the older systems? You're sure right, the cli is very hard. You have to put the CD in and cd to the directory. Guess if that is too much for you stick to the GUI or windows.
I love this, from their user page:
"I hate sexiest men, who are afraid of intelligent women."
It's also a fine thing to end a sentence about using prepositions to end sentences with with.
And a fine thing to end a sentence about ending a sentence about using prepositions to end sentences with with with.
And a fine thing to end a sentence about ending a sentence about ending a sentence about using prepositions to end sentences with with with.
And a fine thing to end a sentence about ending a sentence about ending a sentence about ending a sentence about using prepositions to end sentences with with with with.
etc.
(Ladies and gentlemen, generative grammar!)
In reality, you can just use the defaults, which work perfectly fine for burning already existing ISOs, or generating simple 'CDs with a bunch of files on it', or you can just grab one of the tools designed to figure all that out.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
According to the link you provided, "Extended hotfix support ends 30-Jun-2003. After 16-Jan-2004, the product will be obsolete and no support of any kind will be provided." You still have a few months...