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Nonexistent Windows OS Superior to Panther
Anonymous Coward writes "A Windows user slams Panther. 'Apple has implemented some basic desktop composition features in Mac OS X "Panther." But the basic problem with Mac OS X isn't going away: It's a classic desktop operating system that doesn't offer anything in the way of usability advancements over previous desktop operating systems. Today, Windows XP and its task-based interface are far superior to anything in Mac OS X. In the future, Longhorn will further distance Windows from OS X. (sic) From a graphical standpoint, there won't be any comparison. As Microsoft revealed at the PDC 2003 conference, Longhorn is far more impressive technically than Panther.'"
A long time ago Windows users used to blather on about how great Windows NT was going to be, even before it appeared. The funny thing was they then found it necessary to spend an amazing amount of time dissing OS/2, which was already being used happily by some of us. OS/2 users had years of using a great environment while NT users waited years for theirs to appear. It's like an OS version of short man syndrom. They know Windows sucks, so they get really shrill when they criticize other OSes. It's a repeating pattern.
As Microsoft revealed at the PDC 2003 conference, Longhorn is far more impressive technically than Panther.
Is? IS? Longhorn isn't even out yet, so there's no comparing them. So what if Microsoft says Longhorn will have features X, Y and Z? I don't see Longhorn on millions of computer systems today. By the time Longhorn comes out (late 2004 at best), there will in all probability already be another MacOS X revision.
It's just stupid to claim the superiority of software that doesn't exist in terms of users. I might as well go on a Mac-advocacy rant and say something like "Yeah, well, Longhorn sucks because Apple are developing MacOS XI, due 2006, which has features X, Y and Z, which Longhorn doesn't have. Therefore, MacOS X is just way better than Longhorn." This is childish and stupid, and worst of all, flamebait. Damn me for just responding to this rubbish!
Strange... I have all my finder so it shows everything in single view mode except for one folder that it always shows in list view after I set it that way
Are you running Jaguar, or Panther? I upgraded my G3/700 iBook to Panther yesterday and I'm very impressed with the improvements they made to the Finder. My first impression is that the new Finder is easier to use and seems more willing to stay in one view mode. The laptop feels much more responsive overall too.
By 2006, we're going to be on 10.5 or 10.6... and 2-3 more times we'll hear Apple is charaging$129 for an upgrade!Now if you want to see advancement in MacOS, just compare 10.0 to 10.3. Huge difference.
I'm sure Longhorn will be a great upgrade. But until it ships, we should only compare 10.3 vs. XP to be fair.
MS is just better at showing off vaporware then Apple. Apple has very few official leaks, sure we can predict what 10.4 might include, but so far Apple hasn't said one new feature it WILL include and given the Apple OS shipping schedule its due in Late 2004/Early 2005. A year before Longhorn! And we already know lots of the technology Longhorn WILL include.
Exactly. Innovation should result from perturbation, not masturbation.
Slashdot: Where people pretend to be twice as smart as they really are by behaving like children.
Ah, yes. "Task-based" user interface. What a brilliant innovation that is. I'll be able to sit down at my desk in the morning, bring up the "Do you want to..." screen, and click "Publish a metropolitan daily newspaper."
What? What do you mean, that's not in the "tasks" list? That's my task. That's what I do every day. Why isn't it in the list?
Oh, well, fine. I'll just click "Compose the front page" instead.
Not there? What the hell?
"Copyfit an article."
Not there.
"Write a headline."
Strangely absent.
"Open a new InDesign document."
Aha. Now we're getting somewhere.
Wait a minute. Wait just a damn minute. This isn't any different! In fact, it's worse, because I was planning to copy yesterday's front page and replace the content. This just brought up a blank page!
"Task-based" my ass. If you want the computer to have a "task-based" interface, you'd damn well better make sure the computer has at least some basic knowledge of what my tasks are. If it doesn't, then the "task-based" interface can get the hell out of my way and let me do my job.
I assume this means an interface that can be set up for different tasks, such as programming, gaming, communication and web surfing. Doesnt the multiple desktop feature of MOST linux window managers/desktop environments do this already? Its hard to say "Linux has ... interface" because there are so many DIFFERENT interfaces. Sure, you could say "KDE has a ... interface" but not Linux. With FVWM2, I can set up groups of windows that open when I startx and have a desktop for programming (a couple of xterms and an editor, perhaps) communitaction (xchat and gaim) etc. How is this a "dated desktop metaphor?"
Desktop interface I assume means an interface like in earlier windows versions (or XP with certain non-default setups), OS X, and SOME interfaces for Linux, where you have a "My Computer" like icon on the desktop, and can browse through your files. While some may call this "dated," people seem to LIKE to work this way, so why change it for them? Give the user OPTIONS. Don't just go with whatever is the style now. On first boot: "Do you want a task based (defn.) or Desktop based (defn.) interface? This selection may be changed later at Start>Settings>Interfce>Whatever."
/usr/games/fortune
this beeping problem I have. When ever I'm writing a paper on my PC, all of a sudden it goes BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP, and like half of my paper is GONE!! So I have to write it again, and I have to do it fast, so it's not as good.
E.F.
Still I find the Windows 2000 Explorer, with the folder tree and folder contents in separate windows, more useful.
I respectfully submit that you don't know how to use the Panther Finder. It doesn't work like the Windows Explorer. It's completely different. Learn to use it, then draw your comparisons.
The OS X Save As feature is horrible! It doesn't default to the original file's directory, but to the Documents folder.
It doesn't default to anywhere. The choice of where to open the Save dialog is entirely up to the application developer. If the developer said to go to the Documents folder, then that's where it goes.
In any case, check out the pop-up menu of recent directories. It's darned useful.
On several occations, this has made me open up old revisions of documents, which is a drag.
The Save dialog can't open anything. Maybe you're just a fucking idiot?
They are truly smoking some bad-ass shit.
You are being MICROattacked, from various angles, in a SOFT manner.
It looks like this 'story' is just a troll. Aren't we supposed to wait till after the story is posted for the trolls?
It seems to me that all the comments here are generally the same -- you can't compare something that isn't out yet (and not due for 3 years) with something that is. There's also the fact that M$ is very good at promising the world and delivering Outer Mongolia. And, as we've seen, frequently when M$ adds something new or does a drastic redesign, it takes years (1995 for Win95 to 2002 for WinXP) to get most of the bugs out and make it stable.
/.'ers calmly explaining the fallacy of his arguments and why his technical arguments are weak, he may not be as likely to spread such FUD in the future.
So this guy thinks Longhorn and XP are fantastic and Linux and OSX are crap...
Why is everyone here preaching to the choir and patting each other on the back for OSes that many of us use regularly instead of educating the person who runs the "Win Super Site" on what is going on?
Perhaps if he gets a few e-mails from
First off I'd better be sure to say that I'm a longtime fairly ardent Mac user, and while I'm quite familiar with Windows (perhaps and intermediate-level user with bits of poweruser knowledge) I'll never spend my own money on Windows again (hopefully). And I'm running Panther and enjoying the smooth interface, the usability improvements, etc.
However, it seems like one of the big things in Longhorn will be the WinFS--which I understand to the the database-as-a-filesystem. Yes, I think I've read that Be did something like this, but I'm betting M$ will take it further. The propoganda/article by Thurrott indicates that:
""I should not care about location when I save," says Microsoft VP Chris Jones. "Why can't I just click on my computer and it shows me my documents? It is a computer. It should know what a document is, what I have edited and annotated, what I have searched for before, and what other places I have looked for documents. It is not just documents on my computer I am looking for. It is documents I care about."
That's a great idea: why should I care where I save things? Why can't I have a NASA movie clip from the Galileo mission appear when I'm looking thru my movies (next to whatever Simpsons clips or whatever else) and when I'm looking thru my space files (next to images or articles)? Currently, the only way I can do this is by making aliases and making sure everything is in discrete folders (e.g. movies/space/galileo vs. movies/space/cassini, each of which can be aliased into their corresponding pictures/space/ folders).
I truly hope that Apple is looking into developing a database-like-extension to their HFS (hierarchal file system). I want to keep using my Mac for years and years to come, and very likely will, but I think a database-filesystem is essential to the platform.
Of course, if Longhorn just confuses users too much and M$ has to remove the functionality, or provide a layer over it to simulate hierarchal folders all over again, then... maybe a database-filesystem is not something users will crave. But I think there's a place for it...
Your favorite sig sucks
The "iterative" and "task-based" nature of things gets to be kind of interesting. Rather than opening an app, you might pick (from a "start" menu that takes up a third of the screen), for example, a "photo" section (or "activity center," as Microsoft was calling them back in the late '90s). What's that get you? A UI (quite possibly full-screen) that looks a little like a website, with a list of places you might Want To Go Today[tm]. Maybe you want to import photos, maybe you want to print photos, maybe you want to organize photos, etc. Thus the "task-based" part. You click on what you want, and it gives you step-by-step "iterative" stuff, like a "wizard." Or... well... DOS. :)
So... basically, Microsoft is working on making the system extremely easy to use for people who have absolutely no clue what they're doing. They're aiming at folks who are going to do one thing at a time, more or less. Perhaps they'll still have a "classic" interface available for people who've actually used a computer for more than a week, since a "task-based" "iterative" interface would be absolutely maddening for many of us. :)
Historically, there's been this zeitgeist of "Windows is somewhat hard to use, but it's cheap, and you can do so much with it!" First UNIX-like OSes became cheaper than Windows, then Macs became price-competitive, and now Microsoft wants Longhorn to be the OS of choice for clueless newbies. Earth's magnetic poles should be flipping any day now...
All over the world, people are writing uninformed opinions designed to get a reaction rather than educate. Apparently, Some of them make Slashdot.
Display compositing isn't rocket science. It's feasible now that video hardware with a lot of memory is common.
What is almost rocket science is fine-tuning an OS's user experience. I use Windows, OSX, and X11 (xfce currently, but I switch every few weeks), and OSX has some of the most consistent user designs ever. Preferences each application is in the same place (both file-wise and in the menu).
All I see in windows is an onion-skin of new UI elements being added onto old ones. Someone at work has Longhorn (he's an official MS tester), and the "My Computer" now has everything all lumped into it -- devices, addresses, etc. It's just plain confusing.
So my point is, while OS X is getting simpler to use, Windows, and I fear even some X11 desktops/window managers are getting more complicated. I feel bad for the windows users I know that can't even tell that IE is a browser!
_______
2B1ASK1
Q: What's with this Palladium stuff I keep hearing about?
A: One of the most exciting aspects of Longhorn is its optional integration with Palladium
Ok, this guy must either work for Microsoft or is getting some serious kick-back. I wonder what he's getting because no sane person would use exciting and Palladium in the same sentence.
-----
One is born into aristocracy, but mediocrity can only be achieved through hard work.
I don't use XP or Panther and I don't intend on using Longhorn or OS X anytime in the near future. Be that as it may, it's obvious to me that even if you can argue that Longhorn is going to be better than Panther, WTF is the point? You know Apple is working on improvements to their OS anyway, so the only logical comparison is going to be Longhorn versus the future Apple OS.
"...today consumers have been conditioned to think of beer when they see a bullfrog..."
Outlook 2003 already does this, as long as you have an RMS (Rights Management Server) running, it can be contacted when receipient wants to view the message, and you are using only Outlook or some Microsoft reader program.
People fear what they don't understand, but Palladium is about securing the PC and protecting your privacy, plain and simple. Microsoft isn't trying to usurp your PC.
Ah, yeah, right, as long as you're running all Microsoft software on your desktop and Microsoft software on your servers...
Why is this news? A windows fan claims Longhorn is/will be better than Panther. Will we run a follow-up story when Apple fans claim in this slashdot story that Panther is in fact better than Longhorn?
By the way, Longhorn does exist, inasmuch as leaked builds can be found on the Internet.
"I GO ON FIRST, AND CLEEEAN THE HAIR!"
but noo noo
But I make deh hair SOFT and SILKYY!!
that's what the article is.
just skip it, it's so stupid anyways. it's comparing a fantasy system to something that exists, and doing a piss poor comparision at that too.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
I wonder what he's getting because no sane person would use exciting and Palladium in the same sentence.
I can come up with one:
"The RIAA, MPAA, and Proprietary software vendors, are all excited about the amount of choice taken away from users with Palladium"
I'm not sure whether to laugh or what on that "usability enhancements" part. I used Windows for many years, switched to Linux for a while, then picked up an OS X machine to use along side my Linux box. While I was away from the Windows world XP came out. I find XP nearly unusable in the default state -- no I DON'T want the little dog from MS Bob helping me, thankyouverymuch. I'm not interested in the "do you want to..." sidebar. The new start menu drives me nuts. I end up switching XP boxes to the "Windows Classic" interface -- it's better for my blood pressure. So from my point of view, Windows needs all the usability enhancements it can get -- not necessarily the way MS defines them though :)
Yeah, well... my monkey-powered flying car is better than your mercedes-benz.
YOU'LL SEE, once I get around to releasing it to the public.
predictions of what:
XP was supposed to be...
2000 was supposed to be...
ME was supposed to be...
98 Second Edition was supposed to be...
Yeah yeah yeah, the only thing that hasn't changed
is the ability of M$ marketdroids to out feature their
programmers.
Unfortunately (for me), I have to agree with you. The Finder is pretty much what made the Mac a Mac, and it seems to be lacking in many ways. It's getting better, but IMO, this should have been Apple's *priority* from the get go.
As far as keeping windows in a consistent view: open the window you want to set, configure everything the way you want it, and then CLOSE it before doing anything else. When you reopen the window, everything should be as you left it. Intuitive? Not at all, but that's the way it goes.
I'm sure it's been said before, but maybe Apple should pay a little more attention to it's Mac users before it dives into the Windows world. Market share be damned! I want to use the GUI to manage my files!
There are two kinds of people in the world: those with loaded guns, and those who dig.
Yes, I've seen one of Microsoft's slogans in one of their flyers:
Our software makes your daily work more interesting
Yes, that's exactly it. Not "easier". Not "more effective". Not "fun". Not "better quality". Exactly, "more interesting". When opening your email is connected with all the thrills "Does it contain a virus or not?", when setting up some network is a challenge, when finding TCP/IP networking in the bunch of "non-technical-sounding" wizards in XP takes half a hour, it certainly makes your work more interesting... to anyone who happens to watch you fuming over that stuff.
45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
I thought Mac users were the ones that belonged to a "cult"
I like microcars
excite
tr.v. excited, exciting, excites
1. To stir to activity.
2. To call forth (a reaction or emotion, for example); elicit: odd noises that excited our curiosity.
3. To arouse strong feeling in: speakers who know how to excite a crowd. See Synonyms at provoke.
It sure as hell is stirring activity and it's DEFINITLY arousing strong feelings in me
I find palladium very exciting. Exciting me to acquire plastic explosives, but exciting none the less...
Buttsex.
Running only Microsoft software isn't usurpation! it's CHOICE! Didn't you get the memo?
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
The save dialog can't open anything? In Windows it can, by right-clicking. I find this a useful feature. Honestly.
Lalala
Some Windows fanboy is feeling threatened by OS X and this is news? Cripes.
Anyone else get the feeling the editors are trying to 'correct' a little for the strong pro-Apple articles lately? Like that 'Apple broke my old iPod then told me to fuck off and die' article? Very FUDdy around here today.
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
I tried a copy of the Longhorn PDC build. It was quite hidious. The new finder/IE have this ugly grey look that they like to call "steel." I'm sure there is no relation to the brushed metal look of panther though...
seriously longhorn actually made the brushed metal look decent, which IMHO is an accomplishment all in it self.
Microsoft has in the past, and will presumably retain in the future, a vision of "ease of use" that is premised on making pre-existing, complex, multi-step tasks "easy" by implementing a condescending "wizard"* to walk the user through the task. Then, as soon as you step out of the wizard framework, or try to do anything that wizards haven't been pre-written to help you accomplish, there is a strong possibility that whatever you're trying to do might not make sense. And it seems that MS doesn't see anything wrong with glossing over an fundamentally hard-to-use system in this manner.
Apple takes a very different approach to usability, and is (strikingly) often regarded as more successful at creating a usable system. You are very unlikely to find any obnoxious animated creatures or magical wizards to guide you through complex tasks, because Apple spends a great deal of time trying to make sure that few tasks ever become complex.
Apple's approach makes things easier for everyone, from beginners to very experienced users. Microsoft's approach makes certain things easy for some novice users, but can infuriate experienced users, or at a minimum force experienced users to deal directly with a kludgy interface (either the wizard, or the system directly).
Stepping back, the long view is one that reveals two very different philosophies: Apple empowers the user. Microsoft empowers itself.
--
* On "Wizards":
I guess people are supposed to think, "Wow, computers are so complicated, they're like magic! I could never use a computer if Microsoft didn't come up with all these wizards to make it easier!"
Not having Windows is better than having it; so it is only a slight jump of logic to conclude that NOT having Windows OS is superior to having Panther.
More importantly, if something coming out 2-3 years from now is not technologically superior to Panther (including any Apple OSes that come out in the next couple of years) I would be very disappointed and suprised.
How is this suprising or news?
Release the Hounds!
Well, here's a simple test...
I'm going to go and sit at my Mac running Panther, and do all of my work for a whole week on this machine.
This Paul Thurrot guy is gonna go and sit at his Windows Longhorn computer and do all of his work on the copy of Longhorn he bought the other day.
This sig has been deprecated.
He even thinks Palladium will be a good thing, and not at all a tool to control users, or spy on their computers, or enforce a Microsoft vision on computing on the world.
But never mind all that. The fact that Apple puts out a major evolution to Mac OS X every year or so (thus far), means that Apple only has, what, three more revisions before we really see Longhorn hit the streets? [sarcasm] Gee, Apple will never be able to keep up. [/sarcasm] And by then, Linux will probably be on even more desktop systems than it is today. Longhorn is a ghost, a phantom to frighten little children.
Do not touch -Willie
I have talked to a lot of MS junkies and most really don't know what they are talking about. Stuff they rave over we have been doing for years on the Mac. Since I have used PC since day one and Macs as well. I can usually tell when someone is clueless about the other platform. I use both Panther and XP Pro on my Mac and PC and there is no contest as to which one is better or more stable. MacOS X wins that hands down. Those that do know both and work with them in their jobs like MS for one reason and one reason only. Without MS they would not have a job....Macs network too easily and don't need to be maintain as a much as a network of PC's. It makes them kings in their own little world and thus indispensable to a company or institution. We call it Microsoft, they call it job security.
There's some comment here about shoring up that metaphor and concerning the anal sphincter, but I'm not gonna make it...
I think there is a world market for maybe five personal web logs.
Somehow I don't see droves of Mac users running to buy a copy of Longhorn (er, XP) because of the ridiculous ranting of an idiot.
Though I must admit it, I have seen more rabid Mac sites bashing Windows than I have ever seen the other way.
Why exactly did somebody bother to post this? It seems like an awful waste of bandwith. Of course, I guess the new wonder of "free speech" is you can waste as much net bandwith as you want whether you have something intelligent to say or not.
-A
A Look on the Microsoft Windows Longhorn.
- Windows Longhorn is only 32-Bit OS For Now and will perhaps possibly have a 64-bit support in the future.
- Windows Longhorn will need a DX9 Compliant Video Card to run.
- Windows Longhorn doesn't come with any advanced development tools but Notepad ( Ultimate for HTML )
- Windows Longhorn will have the Paladium Stuff in order to be secure. ( Probably won't be anyway but... )
- Windows Longhorn will be easy to install / upgrade
- Windows Longhorn come only in a 1-Language Deal
- Windows Longhorn cannot support a Heavy Server Load.
- Windows Longhorn will cost about 500$ US to Buy one license, and you haven't got any software on it.
- Windows Longhorn will cost 130$ to Upgrade.
- Windows Longhorn is completly closed-source and you can't contribute to it, because Microsoft doesn't want people like you and me to look at the code and correct problems that can possibly arise.
- Windows Longhorn doesn't have any advanced multimedia editing software except for the Popular Sound Recorder.
A Look on the Apple Mac OS X
- Mac OS X is a 64 bit OS Partially and probably next Version a Full 64 Bit OS.
- Mac OS X need a OpenGL Compliant Card ( About every card sold by Apple since their G3 are OpenGL Complliant )
- Mac OS X come with Project Builder for Free, allowing me to Program and all my stuff without buying many costly licenses from Microsoft.
- Mac OS X doesn't need Paladium, because it is based on UNIX, which is already something I thrust much more than Windows.
- Mac OS X is easy to install.
- Mac OS X can change language at will.
- Mac OS X can be a Server OS natively supported by Apple ( Appache Web Server, MySQL Database Server, File Server, Mail Server, etc... )
- Mac OS X cost 279$ US to get a 5-License Bundle
- Mac OS X always come with the Mac you just bought and will only cost 129$ to Upgrade.
- Mac OS X is Part Open-Source under GPL, so you can participate in the Development by contributing to the Darwin Projects
- You got many Software to do Multimedia Work ( Edit, Create QuickTime, DVD, Images, etc... all due to Apple Software Engineers or Open-Source ) that are optinal in the OS X Install.
- Everything displayed in a Windows in Mac OS X can be saved as a PDF.
Why couldn't you have an iTunes-like filesystem interface. You've got a flat landscape until you populate your files with metadata. You've got saved searches(smart playlists), static lists(standard playlists). You could even let the OS keep an HFS representation of this(Keep iTunes music folder organized). So why not?
I know what you meant, but my sentence gives me the warm fuzzies whereas his sentence just made my skin crawl.
Prevent email address forgery. Publish SPF records for y
Are you saying that you are not sane? LOL. Because you just did.
Can't say I agree with your assessment of the finder, but if you really want to get rid of it, give pathfinder a try: http://www.cocoatech.com/pathfinder3/index.php Lots of folks like it, it's much more customizable, and is much faster than Jagwire's finder.
Most of the ease of use enhancements in Windows have been for people trying to break in to your system anyway.
So, WinFS means Windows Future Storage? Does that mean that when Longhorn is released, the name will change to WinPS, as in Windows Present Storage?
This looks like something you might expect on comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy or something.
This sig no verb.
I can go to an Apple store and find several models of computers coming with OSX pre-installed. How many computers are shipping with Longhorn? Nobody is using it..it must suck.
And compatibility is an absolute nightmare. I've been to every computer store in the country and not a single printer, camera, scanner, card or anything is listed as being compatible with Longhorn. Simply put Longhorn has a tiny niche market for time travelers and can not survive as such.
iTunes (4Mac or 4PC) already implements the database as a filesystem concept. The iTunes program will be your browser/interface, and the songs will be your files.
You search, sort, live, in the metadata, and not in the file hierarchy.
See how you like it, and imagine if the entire OS could be like that.
GPL Deconstructed
by the way he gave the aero presentation at the longhorn dev conference. looking at his slides you can see what he thinks "task" context dependent interfact is. .eg. push in a CD or plun in a spart card and it asks you if you want to open in in iTunes, open in in the finder, or initialize it for HFS+. Oh wait that's panther. IN Longhorn when you insert a CD you have to wait three years for Microsoft to create the task context dependent interface.
what a rube.
My sanity is not in question but since you brought up the subject I'll tell you. I am sane...just ask Santa Claus.
-----
One is born into aristocracy, but mediocrity can only be achieved through hard work.
You know, I remember when Mac OS 8 included new features that were so much better than all other desktop OSes. Let's look at this from a realistic viewpoint. The only feature outlined on this page that wasn't implemented in other OSes ages ago is the database-backed filesystem.
That raises an interesting question. Will this new file system offer any improvement over other file systems, and will it or won't it be excruciatingly slow?
I give whoever wrote that site 10 points for loyalty though. In the manner of your average Windows installer, he's taken old software features and presented them as if they were something new. "Wow! A sidebar!"
Photorealistic desktop? What's the point of that? My desktop is cluttered with computer parts, cds, books, papers, and I don't want the same on the screen.
You're going to just adore Konqueror in file-manager mode, then!
OS X doesn't have one, it's implemented by each app. Perhaps OS X should develop a set of convenience libraries which provide this and a few other things in a wrapper library to help in making them more consistent across the board? File functions like import, export and quit ("quit?" think: "what needs saving or save-as-ing before I do this?") could be wrapped too.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
As I see it Microsoft is getting closer to what the promised for Windows 95. That is what Microsoft does, when they make a significant improvement to their OS they hype it up, make it seem a lot better then the alternatives. People buy it. Then they find out it stinks, but since they bought it they keep it. But because they have it they get use to it, so then when they get proficient with it their afraid to change to an other platform. The only real way to get a good switch is to make an OS that is 100% perfect in all aspects, with feature that will take Microsoft multiple decades to catch up with, and most importantly it will need to run products made for windows.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Here's a quote WRT the 32-bit counter (it's basically Unix's "Y2.038k bug" but happens a thousand times faster, one of the few things in Windows which does):
Here's the 95/98/ME uptime issue straight from the horse's mouth:
Things to note:
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
I expect to see a story tomorrow saying Rabid Mac zealot proclaims 7.6.1 the best OS evuh!
I am a believer of momentum and curves.
XP doesn't have a task-based interface, it has a chore-based interface: it makes many otherwise simple things a chore to do. The reason we're seeing Longhorn betas now but no real product for maybe 3 years is because the bits that are important to Microsoft have nothing to do with the shiny new flavour-of-the-year (in particular, last year) blue plastic interface. What Microsoft see as most necessary is the sheaf of bondageware going in behind it. Once the shackles are welded firmly in place, we'll see an official release.
Three months later, passport.com (and so your Longhorn machine) will be 0wn3d by a Brazilian/Russian/Korean cracker collective who will be running it from their satellite-connected PDA while they blitz around in their shiny new Hummer all funded in part by your credit card - if Microsoft remember to renew the domain registration, that is. By which time all of Asia, Africa, South America and much of Europe will be running Linux anyway, and won't care.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Our software makes your daily work more interesting
In the sense of the old Chinese curse: "May you live in interesting times."
The "new" Longhorn Startup Sound!
I like microcars
While I could have been enjoying longhorn all that time
You mean in 200? when it actually comes out and is more than just repeatedly delayed vaporware.
Writing this from my trust(worth)y little Mac. OK, so its a Big Al powerbook, but hey. Anyway:
Isnt it obvious that this is an astroturfin little fanboy - at best - probably sponsored by the Evil Empire itself? Even if it isnt, doesnt has praise for Longhorn just seem a teensy-weensy bit too similar to marketroid-concocted language devised deep inside the bowels of Mordorsoft itself? Im just sayings all.
Mac OSX may not be perfect. Longhorn may still be a pipe dream. I may be slobberting drunk. But this is probably a plug, plain and simple. OK?
Damn and blast. Kjetil
-- Wake up and XML the Java
One word. BOB.
Circumcision is child abuse.
OHG, I'm a nerd, I'm bashing GUIs now.
--- Evil robots don't kill people, Mad scientists kill people.
Whine.
Bark!
Well, depending on how poorly Microsoft implements their database!
And then there are PC users like this who discover that, perhaps, iTunes might actually be the best Windows app ever. Scroll down to see Gabe's rant about it.
iTunes, I think, and apps like it, are the future, today. Databases, queries, lookups, distributed, shared, libraries, compact, convenient, and easy to use.
Yes, not *all* people will be comfortable ceding control of their files and file system to their programs... but it's just one more step in a long line, ever since the invention of inodes, sectors, heads, tracks, and hierarchical file tables.
GPL Deconstructed
How the hell can opening from a save dialog be useful? Did you think you were going to save, then realize that you wanted to open something? How much time elapsed there? Does the save dialog go away once you open something? If so, why didn't you just use the open dialog? If not, why didn't you just save first?
How to tell when you're talking to a Windows user that doesn't know jack about Mac:
You: "Do you use a Mac?"
Him: "No."
You: "Why not?"
Him: "I just don't."
More often than not, people don't like the Mac because they just don't like the Mac. (or as they say, the MAC). See how far circular logic will get you around here.
It's damned useful if explorer has crashed and refused to come back up on it's own. You can open explorer.exe from it. Of course, you can do this in the "Open" dialog too. All in all, I find it depressing that this happens to me enough where I find it a useful feature.
-B
Um, oops. Change that first line to, "Do you like Macs?"
"It's damned useful if explorer has crashed..." Now why did explorer have to crash, if the OS was stable that should not have happen
Congratulations, Mr Clueless, you have just made yourself the greatest laughing stock on the Web!
& ci d=0&pid=0&startat=&threshold=0&mode=thread&comment sort=0&op=Change
http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=85904
How the hell can you say "Longhorn is far more impressive technically than Panther" when Panther is a reality while Longdelayhorn is no more than a blurred vision without even a firm release date and many of its promised features are still in the conceptual stage? In all likelihood, Longdelayhorn may well be Windows 2007, judging by MS track record.
Even if the slow moving and grass chewing beast exists today, it's still not much more than a also-ran knockoff of Mac OS X in many respects. Let's have a quick look at the 3 pillars of Longdelayhorn:
(1) Aero / Avalon has nothing new compared to aqua / Quartz: Mac OS X has offered transparency, shadow, animation, 3D effects right from the beginning 3 years ago, and Quartz Extreme in Jaguar only made it faster.
(2) WinFS: live search that refines as you type is built-in for many OS X apps (Address Book, iTunes, iPhoto, iCal, Mail, Finder, Preview, Xcode), and Finder has its own dynamic database for fast search by name / content / type / size / date / visibility / label.
(3) Indigo: there are many OS X apps with built-in Web services, Sherlock and Watson have channels for dictionary / translation / eBay / flight / movie / restaurant / etc, and even the humble Calculator can do currency conversion based on live exchange rate on the Web.
How about other great OS X features like Expose, Finder column view, spring-loaded folder, folder action, system wide spelling check and word completion, speech recognition, and so on?
Longdelayhorn was initially planned to be Windows 2004, and after so much hype, now MS doesn't even promise a release date, so it could be 2006 or 2007. After that, it will likely take another 2 or 3 years for bug fixing, so your poor Windows victims may have to wait till 2010 for a usable version, what a joke!
that it's also insightful...
I recognize people by their sigs. Is that a bad thing?
...Would describe my relationship with the Finder.
But let's not forget ArsTechnica's review of Panther. Nor their thoughts on Panther's Finder.
Both articles are, of course, written by John Siracusa, but I shouldn't have to mention this because I was in the middle of reading his Panther review last week when I was rudely Slashdotted. Anyway, I tend to agree with his analysis of the situation.
On several occations, this has made me open up old revisions of documents, which is a drag.
The Save dialog can't open anything. Maybe you're just a fucking idiot?
The only reason I respond to this post is that such a thoughtless AC remark is modded +5 insightful.
Perhaps the accuser should have thought a little more carefully, lest he prove to be guilty of his own insult: obviously what the original poster meant is that by having a confusing save dialog, his documents were inadvertently saved in the wrong places. Therefore, when he opened what he thought was his last-revised document, it was an older version.
Seriously, moderators.
In much the same way, I'm sure it would be "exciting" to watch the guy sitting next to you get mauled by a lion. Draw your own parallels.
On an unrelated note, I once had a co-worker tell me how much my mac sucked, WHILE he was reformatting his hard drive after windows started inexplicably crashing. hmm.
I like most of XP, but the way it splurts hundreds of inane fuckwitted questions all over the screen in some kind of attempt at being helpful is the most annoying thing ever.
You can't complain when Microsoft caters to their primary userbase.
In Soviet America the banks rob you!
I did.
Of course, you can do this in the "Open" dialog too.
Then why didn't you just use the "Open" dialog!!
All in all, I find it depressing that this happens to me enough where I find it a useful feature.
Hehe. Now that sounds about right.
It really makes a lot of sense for Microsoft to make the context menu available on files in open and save dialogs - it's clearly adding functionality that wouldn't have been there otherwise (and I suspect it wouldn't have taken much development effort to add either).
/usr/games/fortune
you see another document with a name that catches your eye, and makes you think that maybe what you're saving this file as is inappropriate (or maybe you're working with and old version of a document by accident), so you want to check out what's in the other file while you've got it RIGHT THERE... so you right click, open in new window, etc.
Sometimes, when in the act of picking a place to save, I open other files from that directory while I browsing the save dialog. This helps me to file it away appropriately.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
Can anybody explain what's with Windows fanboys? I mean, seriously. It's one thing that fans of an "underdog" OS such as OS X or Linux promote their systems.. but who in their right mind thinks a mainstream OS used by 95% of the population needs a cheerleader? Or that Microsoft doesn't do a good enough job promoting their own products? I mean, really. Get a life. Not even the Cult of the Mac spends its time speculating about an OS that's 4+ years out. Hell, the most the Mac crowd does is speculate on the next release, and nobody's even chomping at the bit about 10.4 yet. Who seriously thinks it's important to see Longhorn screenshots in 2002 or 2003? Is there nothing else for these people to get excited about?
I almost wrote a nasty email to the moron who writes that column, but didn't even know where to start!
If you're a huge Windows fanatic, OK, maybe you're looking forward to the next release. I can accept that. But honestly, PROMOTING Palladium and other nonsense? This is like music fans helping the RIAA to find people who illegally share music, and then bragging about it!
This guy is just.. hopelessly pathetic.
(From a Win95->Linux->OS X convert)
This is a grat security hole too! At least under some circumstances.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Anyone reccomend a good finder replacement? :-)
http://cocoatech.com
http://rixstep.com
Any PC user that I know that has spent any amount of time on the Mac (more than just moving the mouse around at the local best buy) really has nothing bad to say about it and usually likes it.
A lot of them switch over to the Mac after a while or use both. Some do not switch but still don't rag on it and are honest about the flaws of both platforms.
I remember going into a computer store in the 80's and someone was showing me Windows 1.0. She was telling how bad the Mac was and how powerful Windows 1.0 was. I said show me something this can do the Mac cannot. She said, "Well you can use a mouse and it has this neat little calculator". I said "And?" She said "Well you can run programs". I said "And?", She said "Well that is more than the Mac can do" and she cheerfully went about playing with the Calculator.
I wonder if she ever went on to work in Redmond.
Paul Thurrott is a Microsoft shill. That's right, by some kind of agreement, tacit and silent or outright, he works the market to stay frustations ISVs and techies are having and to promote MS crap at all odds.
Here's an actual example:
The general paranoia with Win2K was easy for him to work on. In the weeks immediately prior to release, he came out strongly AGAINST the new OS, knowing that a lot of people had seen the product in beta and were highly suspicious of what was under the bonnet.
Then the day the monstrosity was released, he came out strongly IN FAVOUR of it.
I have absolutely no respect for this man. His new article is probably just written to piss Apple people off anyway. That's the kind of thing the arrogant MS crowd find 'fun'.
He's worse then some of these "video game reviewers" or the journalists on CNet.
I mean, not only does he repeat what's fed to him by the MS rumor mills, but he expounds upon it.
And it's all bullshit rhetoric anyway. I've never seen him post a measly graph or table to back up his claims, anywhere.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
I had suggested to someone the other day, half-jokingly, that I was wondering when they would jump from FreeBSD userland to Linux userland (after having made a quantum leap from 4.3 to 4.6 in Panther).
Why? It'd get all those Linux (or just SysV) zealots to join the OSX bandwagon. They can apt-get, emerge, and rpm to their heart's content.
Now I'm wondering if anyone else has seriously thought about that.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
if Windows Longhorn came with software that enabled the user to take components of applications, forms, folders, etc. + a little web knowhow and CREATE her own activity centers.
If it's this powerful new metaphor; a huge reason why I should plunk all of this money down for this new OS, then it better come with a kit and lots of components designed specifically so I can actually take advantage of it.
otherwise it's just another bullet point on a sales presentation. yawn
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
Launchbar
I respectfully submit that you don't know how to use the Panther Finder.
Maybe he just doesn't like it?
After all, the Finder is hardly a speed demon. Given that it's more a 'Mac' program than an NS program, this is hardly surprising.
One thing is certain: if MS are planning 3D graphics, Apple will beat them anyway, and you don't have to be a Mac user to appreciate this.
Apple are always going to be in front, and they have their own hardware.
Positing that MS is somehow ahead of somebody else, when it's not a question of bugs or vulnerabilities, is just ridiculous anyway. It's never happened, it doesn't happen, and it never will happen.
Shame on the editors for accepting this "story". We don't need obvious MS shills, Apple shills, Linux shills, etc.
One example: When I want to install a plugin for some program and find out that I have to install it first, it's a useful feature.
Lalala
Today, Windows XP and its task-based interface are far superior to anything in Mac OS X.
Yeah, isn't that basically the same interface that's in 2000, that's in 98, that's in NT, that's in 95? Except it has big pretty buttons. Ooo...
(So he's saying Windows 95's interface is superior to Mac OS X? Or that if 95 had large control buttons that are skinned, it would then be superior?)
I've read a number of articles on Winsupersite, and come to the conclusion that Paul Thurrot really likes Windows. I read the bit where he takes four (4) laptops to the Microsoft PDC 2003 and then it hit me: He doesn't get it. He really doesn't get it. He's been to some of the OSX roll out events and claims that they're every bit as geeky as the Microsoft one's, yet I would be buggered to know why anyone takes 4 laptops (one of them an iBook) to a conference. I was under the impression that the purpose behind a laptop was to minimise one's burdens.
.Net, but I can see the costs invloved due the MS' hunger for money and control alienating many customers (Who the hell is going to trust MS not to lock them in? How many AV vendors are going to go out of business?)
And that attitude strikes me as the main failing behind almost all Microsoft OSes: Add so many features and doodahs that you kill any attempt at good usability. Can someone explain to me what a sidebar that takes up fully one sixth of the screen is doing there? I appreciate the fact that one would have a calendar, IM and mail notifications and all sorts of other stuff readily available, but wouldn't an improved task tray have solved that problem?
Crazy.
The task oriented approach as started in XP works with utter newbies. Doing sys admin, I saw anti-tech types and neophytes get on well with the task oriented approach. As we all know, most normal Windows users will get rid of the task stuff as soon as they can as it is damningly slow to do anything but I think many geeks and developers wildly over estimate the clueless newbie (I saw at least three people never use Windows Explorer and do all their searching and document managment from the Windows open/save dialogs-They didn't even know Windows Explorer existed, let alone know what a network drive or other computer arcana are). For home users and newbies, this is a good idea, make no mistake.
Apple's approach is make the UI consistent and simple, and is a good middle of the road approach and a better longterm idea, but Windows task stuff also works for newbies.
The Aero GUI running on the Avalon engine will no doubt be very good, but here too, I have the feeling that MS is going to overdo it in terms of mindlessly long paths to do any task, insane effects and crazy animations (what the fuck is a puppy doing there when I want to find something-- and yes I know you can get rid of it, but how easily?)
The palladium stuff will also find it's market in that some companies will swear by it. There will be just as many others that will swear at it though. It might very well help in terms of Virus and spam stuff though, but it really remains to be seen if that approach works, since there will be a lot of legacy stuff floating around which is usually where the exploits happen. I'm willing to give MS the benefit of the doubt that they can make the OS more secure by rewriting the whole thing in
I dunno. I think Longhorn will probably be ok in terms of previous OSes, but I think the lock-in will be more painful and costly than before.
You could try LiteStep, or other open/free programs, for virtual desktops.
Windows (at least with TweakUI) allows you to focus windows by moving the mouse over them. Of course, I believe, this caused some problem with "What's this?" tooltips not showing up.
There are other programs obtainable for window shading, probably for snap-to, and probably most everything else.
Of course, getting Microsoft to incoporate this themselves is another can of worms. (Except XP does have some kind of virtual desktops, with some downloadable addon.)
I have switched fromm PC to MAC 2 years ago and I agree with the criticisms. OS X is terribly slow on a G3 machine with 680 MB of RAm. The Mail application looking for addresses 20 seconds per message was a joke. Now Panther has improved things a bit, but basically Apple has lost the software was when they admitted that Mac OS was obsolete and moved back to Unix. The OS X user interface has been made up from scratch, with some innivations but without the benefit of the long experience in dealing with directories that Windows has. For instance the iTunes "library" is associated in a totally arcane way to where the music files are located. Try to copy or move your Mp3's around outside of iTunes and the whole things gets lost. However you cannot MOVE your files (for instance from a hard disk to another) from within iTunes. You can only change your itunes directory, but there is no option to move all or some of your files there. I do agree that there is too much waporware at Apple.
Microsoft will continue to bastardize the HTML standard.
I had one last week at work with XP Pro. Some little speech bubble popped out of the task bar telling me that I wasn't using my desktop shortcuts enough and would I like Windows to delete them for me. Fuck no you prying OS - if I want to delete them I'll delete them. Then a few minutes after dismissing the dialog it pooped (heh! made a typo but I prefer it this way) up again asking the same friggin question! Cue a wasted five minutes tracking down the option to turn off this retarded feature...
Other examples:
o Do you want to use MSN Messenger? - No! I'm trying to do some work!
o Your disk looks full, shall Windows fuck around with all your files? - No! I'm doing a build, I am creating temp files, I know I have enough space and I don't need son of clippy telling me what to do!
Happy at home on OS X where this kind of crap doesn't happen.
--
Reverse outsourcing: it's the future
No, he's just a little confused in the vocabulary/spelling department.
Obviously, he meant inciting.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
Yes I did learn something but it would be even better if the damned 'feature' wasn't there in the first place.
--
Reverse outsourcing: it's the future
Default folder is the stuff. I've never been keen on Apple's weak Open/Save dialog either. With Default Folder you get five icons down the side of your Open/Save dialog, they do much, Get Info, Rename, Priveleges, Trash, New folder, Rebound to last folder, Favorites, all these folders are hierchical. Also there is click on finder window [to go there]. All these have key commands.
t ml
Check it out:
http://www.stclairsoft.com/DefaultFolderX/index.h
=D
+++++ Never has so much information been so available to so many for so little.
While I love OS X, and use it as my day to day OS on a Powerbook, the original post's basic assertion - that it's a nice OS that doesn't incorporate a number of advancements in user interface design - is correct. This is sold, stable, Unix with a pretty face. OpenDoc running on Classic was more innovative - as was the original NeXT interface. Both of these benefitted from the ability to either jettison the past or start from scratch. I regret that I've never used the now dead Be OS, as I had no Wintel hardware at the time. A basic flaw in OS X: when doing web work and creating new folders, I often find myself creating a folder and copying a file from another directory then renaming it. This is instead of launching BBEdit and doing a save as -> create new folder. It's faster. Even KDE gives me a menu that allows me to create a new file in a folder without having to launch an application. This is pretty basic, and it's missing. I still think OS X was hobbled by hundreds of thousands of screaming, whining Mac users wanting the interface to be like it had been for years - most of them were oblivious to the fact that the core of their OS was so crippled and hobbled it needed to be put out of its misery.
Skot Nelson music is my saviour / i was maimed by rock and roll
chill out, it's actually helpful, not like it's a BAD thing just because explorer has one good feature ... except maybe to people who are scared of features with function that they don't 0wn!
... dunno where the foo u just saved it (because u pressed 'ok'). go file->open or file->save to save the next image, and u can also explorer-open the folder the images are in from within the save dialog.
... so drop the flame and get coding i guess ;)
just saved a web graphic
i would totally love this feature in mosx OR linux, but the absence of it just means i have to find other means to look at the containing folder, not switch back to win95.
explorer had this feature in win95, eight years ago, via the context menu, and it's still absent on any desktop un*x i've seen. that doesn't make win95 better than your flavourite OS, it just means it can do one thing yours can't
And with that, you've hit the nail on the head.
-B
glibc on linux? Who would have thunk it.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
Yes, as demonstrated below Micro$oft's "task based" shit is obviously much better at wasting your time and your screens prescious pixels than Apple could ever hope to.
Here OS News shows how you need a full 1280X1024 window to view a handful of contacts, PLUS another rather large window to actually view one contacts details(note you must actually scroll through this "detail" window to actually see more details than what is shown in the larger, yet still useless window).
While unfortunately you are forced to use Panthers Address Book which only takes up ~590X400px which gives you all the same information as M$ contacts plus more. Not to mention that to actually do a "task" you just fucking DO it instead of start a lame "wizard".
As a double bonus OS X users don't have to view pictures of gay playskool dolls as their contacts portraits.
I doubt reiserfs invented this concept, but reiserfs is a released software that has been designed, among other things, for database-in-the-filesystem-through-plugins.
It's such a small world
"Maybe he just doesn't like it?"
I don't like it much either. But Windows Explorer is pre-BASIC by comparison. Seriously, there's not much point arguing about whether Mac OSX or Win2K has the better 'Finder' when they're both about 1/10th as good as that of MacOS9.
That was classic intercourse!
I think you guys are confused. The Onion just publishes deliciously wonderful satire. Everything you quoted is simply their trademark wit. It's easy for someone that's never read The Onion to mistake it for sincere commentary.
Oh wait, this wasn't in The Onion?
I have a website. It's about Macs.
While I think the author is full of it, comparing non-existing OS's is sort of "in".
...
Jobs on OSX whatever going to be superior to Longhorn when it finally hits the real world is king, second everybody talking about the Linux Desktop - ok, that's a joke! - Gates on the superior safety of Longhorn - which could be considered a joke? - and so on
Oh well, each to his own and whatever gets it up...
But as I an XP user (and one time fan) wrote me this weekend: "Things got a little better with iTunes, makes me wonder why we put up with this. And how on earth could I have ever liked WMP? It's bud-ugly and stupid! This whole OS is ugly and stupid, man, I need a drink!"
I think, therefore I am...I think.
To compare Longhorn to any current operating system is moot, as three years is indeed a LONG time for development. There will probably be at least two or three more major updates to the general *nix population, and without a dout, at least 1 more major revamp of OS X (a complete 64-bit native version for sure). And saying 1-3 major updates is being conservative.
Ummm...try using the side by side view, it's pretty much the same as the windows explorer with the folders on one side and the contents of the selected ones to the right...it's the only veiw i use and it rox.
You bash the finder like no other yet you really gave no examples why it's such a terrible chore to manage files... I just think 'manging files' is a sort of a chore no matter what OS you are using....
it was wasted because he shouldn't have had to spend five minutes trying to turn the damn thing off.
Exactly. LaunchBar is a great substitute for mousing around in the Finder. I don't really even need to use the Finder much. You just type command-space and some abbreviation of the name of what you want like T for Terminal or IT for iTunes and hit return. If you hate navigating through the Finder, you should definitely check it out.
"After a week with a Windows machine I get the feeling that this system is designed by people who know a lot about computers. Macs, on the other hand, seem to be designed by people who know a lot about people."
That pretty much sums it up right there for me. Apple will continue to appeal to those who like machines designed with a person in mind while Windows users will tend to want something that pushes technology boundaries whether that's useful or not. Any Mac user who gripes about Windows having a lousy interface is missing the point of being a Windows user. Any Windows user who gripes about Apple's technology lagging is missing the point of being a Mac user. I prefer the latter, but that's me. I find the real key to productivity is not cutting-edge technology but logical design.
--Rick "If it isn't broken, take it apart and find out why."
what are you talking about? you can record digital video quite easily with an iMac...perhaps you just don't know how to do it and obviously havn't bothered doing an inkling of googling to find out how and instead decided to troll on shalsdot. what a waste of time.
yes so you can have 3 separate programs that all do the exact same thing and among the 3 only a total combined quality of the 1 existing mac program that exists for the same task.
Huh?
Palladium is exciting like a horror movie is exciting.
Longhorn might turn out to be a great OS, but there is a growing list of governments (like Brazil, Vietnam, and even the EU) that have decided that all the pain and dangers that come with using a Microsoft product aren't worth it and are transitioning to Open Source.
After everything Microsoft users have been through this year, I am still amazed ANYONE uses anything from Microsoft!
On the other hand... it has been a great year to be a Mac users!
The line between terrorist and patriot depends on which side of the molatov cocktail you are on.
Let me tell you something about Paul Thurott. This man runs not one, but two of the biggest "Windows-enthusiast" sites out there, namely WinSuperSite and WinInformant. Astroturfing at its finest, and yet he seems to have the money to do this.
He rips so many design concepts on these sites from the Microsoft Web pages that frankly there is only one possible explanation for their not having sued him into oblivion: namely, that he is on their payroll. His claims to be "independent" make this even more likely; Microsoft has done exactly this in the past, after all.
No doubt he'd be among the first to call any alternate OS zealots "religious nutcases"...
Speaking from a religious point of view. My extended religious experience has proven time and time again that he who fights with religious slander is in fact the only zealot in the room.
Think about who will be the first in a room to condemn "all fags to hell" and other associated rhetoric. While the normal people sit back and wonder what is wrong with this guy?
No offense to the gays out there, I like gays, they're the life of the party, and us strait guys could sure take some hygene tips from them.
__
Thou hast besquirted me, O leotarded one.
Any PC user that I know that has spent any amount of time on the Mac (more than just moving the mouse around at the local best buy) really has nothing bad to say about it and usually likes it.
The details of Mac OS's has always been part of the required training for Microsoft certifications, because an NT admin in a mega-corp frequently needs to support the small network of Macs that the advertising department or some such area. While most of them just learn barely enough to get their precious MCSE pieces of paper, many others delve into the Mac OS a lot further than the typical "I only use Macs" school teacher ever will.
Not every Windows user who disses Macs does so out of complete ignorance. More often than not, they dislike Macs for one of two reasons:
1. They are more comfortable with the familiarity of Windows, having spent months learning the finer details of COM libraries, the system registry, and .NET
2. They play computer games, and will always choose the platform that has more state-of-the-art games available
That said, I have an X-Box for games, and a UNIX background that's at least as strong as my Windows knowledge. OS X 10.3 rocks my world.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
No, it's not some MS troll, but some thoughts after reading Paul Thurrot's blog and website, and all the points he makes (I mentioned some of this further down) and want to expand on it.
I don't think Paul Thurrot is a complete idiot. He really likes Windows, obviously, and seems to feel that MS has more to offer than Linux or Mac OSX. He does use both Linux and OSX and quite rightly points out some of the deficiencies that creep into OSX and Linux, albeit from the point of view of someone who has decided on which side of the fence he's sitting (Microsoft 4 ever).
He obviously, in light of his Windows bias, likes to point out problems, both existant and non existant in the two other OSes, such as the non-issue that Apple wasn't going to supply security fixes to Jaguar, and the initial problems with Panther Firewire and Filevault (there have been many of us on Mac forums that were really worried about this) and takes issue with Apple releasing a patch so quickly for those issues (would he have preferred waiting for a month?). He also points out general unhappiness with RH's Feodora (which Linux reviewers seem to agree with). He goes on to complain that the smallest iBook doesn't have the fastest processor as compared to the smallest Powerbook (why don't you just buy a 12" Powerbook then Paul?)
He also seems to see Longhorn as the next big thing in computing, and I for one agree that MS is probably going to have some pretty interesting features in it (the compositing, WinFS and multiple simultaneous users in the GUI for example) and it will probably be quite polished by the time it gets released.
Yet, he doesn't seem to see any problems with Microsoft's business practices, such as the fact that Longhorn Pro will only allow two simultaneous user sessions at once (Someone should tell him about Xwindows networking) and that the DRM features, while probably providing improved security will almost certainly cause havoc in companies that have a mix of older and newer software and will make lock-in even more odious than it is today as it will lock out any standards based mail or document system.
And this is what bothers me about so much of Microsoft's business: The OS (in Win2k and XP) has gotten to be reasonably stable and reliable and one cannot really argue the fact that so much software/games/hardware platforms etc are available, but Microsoft's decided lack of interest in real security (software vulnerability versus product activation i.e. Quality vs. Quantity) until the amount of derision in the press became overwhelming is a point in fact. Longhorn will be full of new features and will probably work well on then existing hardware, but one will by then almost certainly be tied into multiple DRM systems and I am willing to bet that MS will try it's subscription idea on home users again at some point.
It's a question of trust at the end of the day. Do I trust an OS that is completely open (Linux), mostly open (OSX), or mostly closed and locked up (Windows)?
I made my decision. I'm running OSX on my Powerbook.
This guy does not understand that displaying tasks and process is not the same as the "desktop metaphor." Longhorn STILL uses a desktop metaphor (trust me, I'm an interface designer). It had files, it has folders, and it has a desktop. However, Microsoft has seemingly chosen to rearrange the ways people access frequently used tasks within the desktop metaphor GUI.
Apple has done similar things within OS X. Apple has also looked for new ways to present tasks and processes to users. However, Apple's approaches are usually significantly different then Microsofts.
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
glibc is supposedly portable, but in fact runs ONLY on linux. It would be neat if it ran on MacOS (but only because the Linux ABI came over, so it's sort of like cheating).
Eh. Not funny anyway. Ah well.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
Phrases like This new user interface, or 'user experience'... are not...of...this...earth.
"Windows User Flings Longhorn Cowpies at Mac OS X"
News at 11 - in 2007 when Longhorn is finally available on shiny cowpie shaped discs...
1. I couldn't stand the Classic GUI. 2. Classic's horrible multi-tasking.
I love my dual 800Mhz now (expect for some current hardware problems).
The meme police, They live inside of my head
How about:
Myself and the rest of the Ashcroft family are excited about the new features that will be spooged into Palladium!
What, like "don't get your dipstick dirty" or "don't bust any blood vessels in your butt"? (-:
Sounds like going to Bill Gates for advice on security.
Is it just me, or is it becoming fashionable to bend every thread to make a political correctness point these days?
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
FBC (Find By Content) is alive and well in MacOS X. Not that I've ever used it, since I keep my docs organized, and can always find the one I'm looking for by name (systematic naming schemes help a lot!), or sorting by date. It's up to the various document editing apps to have database functionality. Adobe is catching onto this with their File Viewer thing in Photoshop, and MS could do worse than to implement this into the various Office apps, possibly as an upgraded Open/Save dialog (or an option therein). How could a filesystem's database possibly be complex enough to handle all different kinds of files in any meaningful manner, and yet be practical to use and context-sensitive enough to be more productive than the status quo? I think Apple was spot-on with iTunes as a 'Music Management Solution'. What is needed are management solutions for other kinds of files. iPhoto is definitely not there for images as it is too hard to add pictures to the iPhoto library, and it seems focused on integrating with digital still cameras instead of all pictures. Movies are going to be tough with all the incompatible and proprietary formats in widespread use. Word processing documents are best handled by the app that created them, since they also commonly use proprietary formats (though this might become easier with XML-based word docs, as long as they aren't encrypted). This database-filesystem vaporware for Longhorn is obviously going to be a poorly-implemented hack that doesn't really solve any problems, as evidenced by Microsoft's track record in marketable features vs. usability enhancements.
"I like systems, their application excepted", George Sand (French)
Maybe I did not get my point across but that is pretty much what I meant in as many words.
I know PC users who will not touch Windows because they prefer DOS. They hate Windows for the same reason they hate the Mac. I have also seen many PC users dissing the Mac for no reason other than it is not a PC.
That is not to say that they do have some valid points about the Mac OS. Just as I have valid points about the Windows OS. Since I have used it everyday and have since its inception.
I have my PC for the few apps that can't be replicated on the Mac....mostly some Audio Apps and of course some games.
Heh, looks like Ballmer and Gates have their own "reality distortion field" to compete with Steve's :)
I might know what I'm talkin' about, but then again, this is Slashdot...
just saved a web graphic ... dunno where the foo u just saved it (because u pressed 'ok'). go file->open or file->save to save the next image
No. Just hold down the "command" key on the title bar of the window. Up pops a menu showing you the path to the file you just saved. Or, if you prefer, click-and-drag the title bar icon.
You shitwits just don't know how to use a Mac, that's all.
To email this guy explaining his error is about as worthwhile as talking to the members of Heaven's Gate in April 1997. I think this article was posted so some of us could focus our anger on an obviously deserving target and so the rest of us could just be aware that there are such freakishly twisted views out there.
-karma neutral- but give it time...
...in some cases. (-:
I strongly suspect that in the case of male homosexuals this is a consequence of constantly wondering (fearing) how people see them, and possibly also a consequence of being forced by their lifestyle to examine a few basic factors in their lives. WRT that last item, they seem to often react to their circumstances by either becoming extremely observant, or by becoming very unwilling to question anything (presumably in case they get embarrassing answers).
In female homosexuals, trends towards using practical clothing and footwear instead of the hopelessly impractical gear which fashion dictates to femmes might be explicable through similar reasoning.
I know utterly straight examples of both boot-wearing femmes and appearance-conscious BEMs.
In consequence, I occasionally wonder what would happen if we were all taught to regularly sit down and take census of our lives.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
i don't need to use cygwin to compile common and standard GNU source code, my system logs can be displayed embedded in my desktop! (lookup GeekTool on version tracker, if you don't know, now you know foo'!) These are not capabilities that will appeal to the traditional mac user! i think with Mac OS X, Apple is making a commitment to have the all-around top desktop OS - perfect for nerdliness if you want it, and beautiful and easy to use for your parents!
"Other bands play, but Manowar KILLS"
Apple also shipped PPC servers running AIX under license from IBM. They have a rich unix history.
It is cowardly, and a betrayal of whatever it means to be a Jew, to act as a white man
-James Baldwin
Yes I now have celebrity email, cool (yes I know, lowest form of wit!) Do you want to read, I guess I just didn't have enough energy to argue with this guy! Dear Paul, > > > > > > > > You are clearly delusional with regards to your opinion of OSX. I > > > > regularly use both XP and osX panther and it seems clear that osx > > > > has ease of use features that are not included with XP, such as > > > > expose and a greater overiding simplicity when compared > > to windows > > > > and classic mac os. Someone who was only familar with > > windows could > > > > make such a bizarre statement. XP is a better OS product than > > > > previous versions of windows primarily due to stability > > > > improvements, however the interface has changed very little since > > > > 1995 and I fail to see any practical improvements. > > > > Everyone is of course entitled to an opinion. > > > > > > > > Best Regards > > > > > > > > Dr Chris Welsby Then He wrote back: Paul Thurrott wrote: > > > > > > Thanks for writing. I agree with your last comment. But > > you'll have to > > > supply better ease of use arguments than Expose, which needs to be > > > first found and then enabled before you can use it (thus, it's not > > > discoverable or, ahem, easy to use); XP offers simpler > > > window-clutter-removal tech (task button grouping) and it's on by > > > default. And saying OS X has "greater overiding [sic] > > simplicity" is > > > sort of baseless, if you'll excuse me. What does that mean? If it > > > means fewer features, OK, there's a case there. It's certainly less > > > busy than XP. But OS X offers users no starting point at > > all, and no help along the way. > > > > > > XP offers an evolutionary interface over previous Windows versions, > > > but offers context-sensitive task panes that change > > depending on which > > > content you're working with. If you view a folder full of > > song files > > > for example, or select a song file, the task pane changes > > to offer you > > > options related to that file type. OS X has nothing like this. > > > > > > I'll be posting an article to the SuperSite later this week that > > > explains this further. But it's a fact that Microsoft has > > evolved--and > > > continues to evolve--the desktop OS paradigm beyond > > anything Apple has > > > done. I know that's not what Apple people are used to > > hearing, but it's true. > > > > > > Don't get me wrong: OS X is a great OS (the claims of me > > "slamming" it > > > are unfounded). But under the glitz, it's just a pretty > > classic desktop OS. > > > There really aren't many "ease of use" improvements per se, > > unless you > > > count the stuff Apple has done over the past few years > > correctly the > > > problems it introduced in the first OS X release, let alone > > new usage > > > models, such as the iterative and task-based work Microsoft > > has done. > > > > > > Paul This did cheese me off a tad so I summond up enough energy for a reply: HI Paul, > > > > Well thanks very much for the quick reply. I hear what you > > are saying and don't get me wrong either, XP is a very > > capable system. > > I am not sure there is any point in countering your responses > > with regards ease of use since your response has hilighted > > what I guess is a sort of philisophical difference between > > our expectations of a system. > > I considered expose as an ease of use feature because it > > makes life easier. I understand your point about it not being
WHAT RETARD Modded that crap to interesting? He sadi he could have been enjoying Longhorn! Didn't he read the part about non-existant? I have 28 Apple machines running 10.3 from one graphite (400 mhz 256 meg ram) to a bunch of new iMacs and dual processor G4s with a gig of ram each and one lonely G5 and one G4 laptop. Let's not even talk about what I don't like about the weird IP handler that returns the zero config address across the network on port 80. Whining about the lack of a registry or the directory browser is so . . . ugh! What kind of performance do they expect on a system that makes its display out of PDFs? How long does it take to render a complex page to PDF on his WIN machine? at this point it will take about a year and a half on longhorn. :))
Any preoccupation with ideas of what is right or wrong in conduct shows an arrested intellectual development. (Wilde)
Yes a native 64 bit osx running on a stripped down IBM POWER5. OSX might be not just a better OS by the time longhorn comes out, but also one that runs on much faster hardware. I haven't really seen anything from Intel or AMD that looks as promising as what IBM is doing.
Of those to whom much is given, much is required.
Your're not wrong!
The internet Nexus site is pretty negative but strangely features mainly articles on macs!?
The guy has a fixation on them.
Maybe he is a closet lover!