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Making Your Own Board/Card Games?
wrinkledshirt writes "I've been growing interested in creating my own set of board games, and I was wondering if people knew of good resources for how to go about doing this? I'd love to know information on good places to get cards printed, manuals printed, plastic pieces manufactured, boards created, that sort of thing. Many companies online offer to do all of these things for you, but I'm considering doing it all separately in order to cut costs. Since I've never done this before, I'm also wondering about sources that'll give you good ideas to consider as well as gameplay pitfalls to avoid. I know google is my friend, but I'm also wondering about people's experiences in trying to do this stuff on their own...?"
Daf from #bhamcs on Quakenet ( irc.quakenet.org ) is currently making a board game, try him :)
When anger rises, think of the consequences.
Confucius (551 BC - 479 BC)
1. Get a popular show
2. Have a popular character on the show make up some rules for a game (they don't need to make sense)
3. Have determined fans make up rules that fit the above specified rules, yet provide some logical game play
4. You now have your own card game
I'm pretty sure they can print everything you want except a board.
And if you get your board printed on nice glossy heavy duty paper, that should be hard to make (so long as you know how to spread glue out evenly and thinly).
try www.chessvariants.com and www.zillionsofgames.com
Making board games is like making books or video games. First you design the game and make it quality. Manufacture a few prototypes of the game. You can do this on your own with cardboard and an injet printer. If the game is quality get it published. There are a lot of board game publishers that will buy your game if it is quality. You can go all the way from Looney Labs (Fluxx and Nanofictionary) to Rio Grande (El Grande, Puerto Rico) to Milton Bradley (Hasbro, right?) If you don't want to publish your game commercialy (couldn't imagine why not) you will need to contact a professional printer. If you hadn't guessed that costs big money.
The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
I've had an idea for a few years I'm getting ready to set up:
Have a board in which people move their pieces (say.. a hat, train, etc) around a board with street names. Let the users buy the squares (or "properties") and build houses and hotels on them. If another user lands on the property then the owner can charge rent. Ohh... this just popped into my head, have a corner square labelled "GO" and give each user $200 when they pass it.
I'm going to be a fucking millionaire over this one!
Trolling is a art,
It's really simple to grab together pieces from other board games you have lying around the house, sketch out a quick board on some simple paper, and try playing the game with a few friends. I've done this many times, and it helps you see what sort of game-play is fun and interesting, and what's not really, before you go to the trouble of making a more permanent set of cards/plastic pieces/game board. If you really do come up with a winner you think you can sell, I suppose that's the time you can go looking around for companies to manufacture it for you. And I think at that point you'd be better off going to a game company who knows what they're doing, rather than trying to farm out production to various different individual companies to save a buck, and then try to sell the game yourself.
But really: a large piece of paper, a collection of plastic pieces from various board games, some dice, and a few cards can provide for many, many hours of fun and entertainment. You're limited only by your imagination.
Dlugar
Computer Go: Writing Software to Play the Ancient Game of Go
Make your own Risk board :)
My girlfriend made one, even made an army by cutting a piece of paper in ultra small squares and writing numbers on it. I mean just show your creative side!
I want to play the Slashdot board game. Someone post a link and you try to look at that link before the server is killed.
- a guy made a USB menorah
- a guy made a web interface to 4,000 xmas lights and a rotating camera w/ pan & zoom
- guys are making spacecraft in garages by hand for xprize
- ??? [and etc]
And you are telling me you can't print your own manual and make your own little plastic figures? SHAME ON YOU!- It's quite possible you've got a printer in the neighborhood without having realized it. Depending on the type of shop you could get most of your needs met there -- manual, cards, playing board, even the container.
- For playing pieces, wood adds a touch of class that plastic can't match; check your local craft store and see what kinds of things they've got that you can glue together. You can do just about anything with a source of wood and a Dremel.
- Another possibility for the playing board is to design your board on the computer and print it to an iron-on transfer, then iron that on to the cardboard. Or you could make a series of stencils you can spray-paint through (one for each color) for mass production.
- Use dice. They're cheap and plentiful.
Good luck. This sounds like it could be a rewarding hobby.Check out http://inventors.about.com/library/weekly/aa121997 .htm. It discusses the interesting history of the game Monopoly. Yes, Monopoly's success made it's "inventor" Charles Darrow a millionaire, but a quite similar game, titled Landlord, was invented nearly 20 years prior.
I could not justify my existence if I were a turkey farmer. Would I terminate myself? Undoubtably, yes.
1,000 Blank Cards! 1,000 Blank Cards! 1,000 Blank Cards!
Those who know this game will swear it's the most fun they've ever had! Those who don't... anyone care to let them in on this?
It's a mat that let's you JUMP to different CONCLUSIONS written on it.
Kinko's will do wonders for printing up money, manuals, and other paper components...
Your local hobby shop, in the minutures section, could supply the pieces and dice.
find your local (if you have one) school teacher supply store. They have all kinds of game tokens, dice, spinners & what-have-yous. A good paper store is handy for getting the game board backing.
I print the game boards on multiple sheets on a colour printer, glue them to the backing and then laminate them a the local copy station.
This works for simple board games for her grade 1-3 students. Should work fine for your prototyping stages. Custom plastic is going to cost you, though. You might want to look into paperboard cut outs if you want to make and distribute it yourself.
http://nwbagpipes.com/
Tom: The guy made a million dollars! Y'know, I had an idea like that once.
Peter: Really? What was it, Tom?
Tom: Well, all right. It was a Jump to Conclusions mat. You see, it would be this mat that you would put on the floor and it would have different conclusions written on it that you could jump to.
Michael: That is the worse idea I've ever heard in my life, Tom.
Samir: Yes, it is horrible.
Tom: Ah, look. I, I gotta get outta here. I'll see you guys later, if I still have a job.
*snicker*
Rules are for sissies.
CC Licensed Serialized Story and Podcast: Ingenioustries
1. Involve a patent/IP lawyer from the outset so's you don't get ripped off.
2. I would self-publish and use places like WOTC, etc. only as distribution channels. The principles that apply to self-publishing of books (see "The Self-Publishing Manual") apply more or less equally.
3. There are a number of Indian co's that make boxes, inserts, print cards, etc. But I would use them only in a way that you don't get pirated, e.g. for game pieces or other stuff that disclose the game sufficiently to allow piracy. I would use one or more local printers to do specific items such as cards, boards etc.
4. All the above presupposes you have a good idea that does not infringe some existing product or copyrighted, etc. work.
One of the guys I work with does game design as a hobby. (Joe Huber, first published game Scream Machine by Jolly Roger Games) He buys poker decks in bulk from BJs and prints out stickers that cover the face of the cards. If the game uses a board, he usually just hand draws one on card stock. He's also purchased parts from the local science museum or used parts from widely available board games, i.e. money/markers from Monopoly, etc.
It should be noted that these are prototypes and he's usually not making more than one copy of these games.
"You can put a man through school,
But you cannot make him think."
Ben Harper
I know that part of the fun in your case is creating the board itself, but without a good game behind it, you're wasting your money.
Consider first creating or purchasing a standard "piecepack", which is to board games what a standard deck of cards is to more specialized card games like Uno. It's a board and standard set of pieces that you can use for dozens or even hundreds of different games.
The piecepack website has rules for a bunch of different games that can be played with it (nearly eighty at the moment). You can browse through those to see what makes a good game and what doesn't, and even make up your own game and submit it for peer evaluation.
Then, if your game seems fun and people like it, you could pony up the extra money to have custom boards made.
Have fun! Families playing card and board games are rare nowadays, so my hat's off to you!
Graham "Teach" Mitchell, computer science teacher, Leander HS
For example, the guys (and gal) at invisible-city.com have been making their own games for a while now, and I'm sure they'd be happy to give you some advice if you dropped them an email.
After you design it and are sure it's both playable and fun.
Go out and buy several board games that look like it has what you want as an element.
A board game where the board folds the way you want and is about the right size.
A board game with the generic pieces that are like what you want.
finally when you get to wanting cards done, Kinkos can get you game-cards that are the quality of that in a Monoply game. if you want cards that are like a deck of playing cards, I.E. coated, do a search for playing card makers on google.
finally after you get your graphics laid out for your board, Kinko's again can print it for you and then simply cut/glue it to the donor board, then buy the thin-sticky clear plastic to put over the board surfaces.
I've had a version of Uno called Glastnost-UNO made (you have to love playing when you have a mutually assured destruction card! and other evil cards like last card multiply by 10 for use on draw cards.) made and we made a nuclear capable version of Risk (including little bomb pieces for nukes to deploy, and Pog style markers for dangerous country/no troops can move) for playing in college back in the 90's and we were able to get it looking 100% professional by having playing cards printed at a US game card house (I had to order 20 decks of cards, but hey the game was a blast!) and modifying existing games parts for my own use.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
You can buy generic plastic pieces (pawns) at any specialty game store.
Pretend there is some witty statement here.
I've found that those laser-cut Avery print-your-own business card sheets work nicely for prototype cards. Templates already exist for most major word processors and layout packages, if you don't want to just hand-scrawl 'em.
At that point, it's time to consider whether you want to self-publish or sell to a publisher. If you decide to self-publish, with a good game in hand, you're about 1/5 of the way to making money. Then you worry about production issues like you are now. Producing parts isn't tough unless you have to build molds in which case it can get expensive pretty quick. Boards, manuals, cards, boxes are all cheap to produce. Once you have physical product, you're about 1/3 of the way there. You still have to sell the game to resellers and to do that, you have to convince them that the game will move off their shelves better than what they're currently carrying. That's a tough road and requires a lot of patience and persistence to see it through. To get a feeling for the problem you have to overcome, put yourself in a game store and you see a new game on the shelf. Would you buy it if you know nothing about it? That's what a reseller is going to wonder and it's a fear you'll have to overcome.
So you finally land your first sale. Except you're not there yet. Somebody like Walmart or Target is going to want to know that you'll take the game back if it dies on the shelf. That means you won't see money from them until the product shows that it's moving and they're ready to reorder. It's when the second and third re-orders start coming in that you know you've got a product that'll sell. Self-publishing is a rush but most of the time you're worrying about keeping product moving more than you're worrying about developing a great game. Been there, done that.
check out http://www.cheapass.com/index.html
They specialize in cheap, low material board/card games. Unfortunately, they are not taking game ideas. But they have some clever designs without the need for fancy pieces or boards.
Watch for the following pitfalls:
Parts of the game are worthless.
There are ways to do the opposite of what you're supposed to and benefit from it.
If the game includes secrets, there need to be tools to encourage players to keep them.
The game shouldn't "elminate" players slowly. Yes, I know monopoly does this, but those that are eliminated usually leave/sleep/watch tv and I think that's why games like Pictionary, Scattegories, or Trivial Pursuit are more popular.
Different, but not revolutionary. Just like most video games, you're better off doing a variation of something most people are familiar with than something new and/or complex.
You need to be able to sit down, read the rules, and understand the game in under 5 minutes.
Good luck.
If you were truly geek, you could set up a linux box to (virtually) run the AOL install, and the game environment could be something in a virtual AOL world. Players could (virtually) swap files, get email, bypass parental controls, get sued by RIAA, become the target of slashdotting, etc.
By the way, I've patented this, so be sure to call me if you get it working! I've also patented the concept of prior art, so if someone else has been doing this(or anything else) before I thought of it, you owe me, too.
at amazon -- great book on the game industry, pointers at publishers and a few do-it-yourself tips...
I've made a few expansions to games I own, and
I've worked on designing new games.
Here's my $0.02:
The real question is whether you intend to sell this game to other people.
If the games are just for you and your friends,
even if there are several copies, then my recommendation is to make everything using readily available parts:
color printer +
full sheet sticker paper +
various thickness cardstock +
laminate = cards, tiles, flat playing pieces
glass beads (buy at Target, not at the
gaming store, you'll get 10x for
1/10 the price...) = money, counters, etc.
wooden pieces from craft shop (usually used
for decorating dollhouses) + paint =
any specific shaped pieces you
need, in a variety of colors.
word procesor + printer + stapler = rulebook
good friend who can draw well = illustrator for
piece/boards
pieces from other games (spares often
orderable online) = if alse fails...
With these, you can usually reach 95% of the quality of most games out there.
If you really do want to sell your game, then you should really make a few test copies using the means at your disposal (see above), then have your friends test-play the thing to death, to work out the bugs. This is the hardest part of creating a new game, and you should do it before committing resources. The last this you want to do is invest in creating a game that you decide to change later!
If you have a good game, then you can always redesign the pieces and either manufacture it yourself or sell it to a company that does this regularly. But note: New games typically sell 2,000 to 3,000 copies. The best games may reach 10,000 or more. But those are the only levels of manufacturing where it makes to. Otherwise, you'll most likely spend $1000 to make a few copies of a game that you might not enjoy next year.
Try what the Cheapass Games people did. Make the board out of big pieces of paper, swipe pieces from other games, print the cards on a laser printer using card stock, and so on. As long as the game itself is entertaining, the looks won't matter thatmuch. Once you're sure it's a good game and people want to play it, then you can think about getting fancy.
Today, I was thinking about the customized monopoly game that I got last night ("NC Stateopoloy", an NC State version). As all monopoly games follow a general template (a "GO" you pass, utilities, etc), there's gotta be a way to write a program that lets you put in your own customized values for properties, community chests, etc and prints out on 6-8 sheets of high-quality paper a life-size monopoly board (as well as all the cards that you'd need).
Of course, Parker Brothers law dept would have a field day with such an Open Source project. But one can always dream.
Ergonomica Auctorita Illico!
My dad owns a one man game company and his web site has a page about this.
:]
Here.
His games have made it into Games Magazine's top 100 games list more than once, so he might have some reasonable advice.
I just googled it.
Here's a site
It looks like the most fun I will ever have in my life. I need to get a bunch of friends together and play a few games of that.
//FIXME: Bad
You've probably left it too late for a Xmas present. Particularly if you want it shipped from China.
Tom Jolly, creator of Wiz-War, has some good information.
I came up with the idea (long ago), of a three player chess game based on a board of hexagons instead of squares. I even tried to market it through one of those invention marketing companies (waste of good money.) Then I joined the Air Force and got stationed, of all places, at the Pentagon. One of the first things I did was hop on the Metrorail to Crystal City and do a patent search of chess games based on hexagons instead of squares... I found at least twenty design patents for such games. And since the WWW has come into existence I've found at least 20 more such games. So much for my idea. =P
Turns out, creating a chess game based on hexagons instead of squares that has the same "flavor" as regular chess is no easy task at all. I am still trying to find the right combination of boards/piece arrangements.
Check out Loony Labs, I know they would give you some advice www.wunderland.com
Hi,
Some years ago, my brother and a friend build a table like game with LEGO. The board was very big, and had some "mechanical" features that made it specially funny. Only the cards needed by the game had to be made by hand, but the most important matter was fun of course.
Indeed we enjoyed it very much for several weeks, but finally, like any LEGO things you build, they get disassembled.
It's located in the hammock district.
It all comes down to your game design. Design your game. Write up your rules make your own gamne board by printing out what you design and pasting it on top of a peice of cardboard. Use checkers/bottlecapps for pieces. WHen you design how the game works, looks don't matter.
What matters: Is it fun? Teach others to play it. Let strangers play it. Sit in a College Student center and give away beer to those that play it. Tweak the game. MAke it more fun. I made a card game that I use in the classes I teach and following the habbit of making everyone play it and provide feedback (What did you like/dislike, I must have clocked thousands of hours of play testing.
After you have designed the game. Sell it if you are in it for the money. Game companies can market, produce and sell these things more successfully that you will out of your own basement. (Don't take it persoannly, I can't do it either).
By your question, it seems that you won't mind outsourcing everything. Maybe that will work. But it will be hard to find people to advertise it and stock it on shelves. If you are going to go stricktly mail order, how in the world am I going to find out about your game? Will you place an ad on slashdot, just like the think-geek BB-shooting-tank ad that I am ignoring at this moment?
Anyway. Good luck!
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"First things first -- but not necessarily in that order"
-- The Doctor, "Doctor
you checked out Cheapassgames or any of the GamesWorkshop games?
...I'd recommend this site. Although I'm hardly an expert at RPG and card/ board game making, I liked this web site.
...I'd recommend this site. Although I'm hardly an expert at RPG and card/ board game making, I liked this web site.
(2nd post, this time the link works...)
The cards you just need a few heavy duty laser printers for. You need to decide if you need colored stock or colored print. If it's colored print your looking at decidedly higher costs. You can also contact a large printing company, the smallest they'll fire up the presses for is going to cost you about $1000-$5000 but that will get quite a few full color cards on good stock cut and ready to go on a palette.
Your next tackle is game pieces, where you go for this is a bit trickey, it depends on your pieces. Decide if they are something you can design and make a physical impression of yourself or if you need an artist to do it for you. Either way contact a few plastics companies FIRST to find out what they will require of you. You can find information about completely doing this yourself on the web, what your wanting is information about molds and injection of plastic in molds, the base equiptment to create hundreds of figures can be has for under $1000 but you have materials on top of that, and still have the problem of likely needing an artist for the design and cast of your pieces.
As for the boards, your not going to be able to run them through printing presses, what you need to do is find the stock for your boards. If you can find a company that will do the boards lock stock and barrel great, you'll likely want to go with that (you will of course need to design or have an artist design your board), otherwise you'll need the stock. If your game can be played on a basic rectangular or square board that doesn't need folded that will make your life easier, otherwise you will have to get someone to play ball or do it yourself. Could get pretty tedious depending on how many of these you intend to produce. Then you'll need to refer back to the presses for stock that will stick the boards, or simply print on cheaper glossy stock and then you can use cold laminate or laquer to adhese them to the physical boards, there are laser printers that are designed for wide stock as well and could be used for when you need it and/or aren't using segmented boards where your image could be chopped up into multiple sheets you could use your regular laser printers for.
As for the packaging, there are numerous companies that do this relatively inexpensively if you are producing these in any quantity.
If you go the route of getting the equiptment yourself then of course the advantage is that it can be reused (although running thick card stock on a regular basis through laser printers will result in a fuser change or a new printer every 3-6months, at that point toner flecks will start to appear on prints).
If you go the route of industrial style companies they front all the equiptment and labor for the task they perform, however they will have minimum runs (it's expensive to fire up a press or make molds). If you go that route remember a couple things, at this level of the game you CAN negotiate, your not walking into a grocery store where there is a price tag on everything and that's how much it costs. Repeat business is great, but sell them on concept of repeat business on other products (later boards), they will generally want to do as much as possible in a single run (since the expense for them is setup to produce your item, and running off a few more later means setting up all over again). It's better to do 5000 now than 1000 each month, and cheaper for them so your talking down will yield more fruit.
A while ago, I was enthralled with German board games (settlers of Catan and the like). I thoght it would be a cool idea to create a game that used commonly available pieces from other games (monopoly, chess, etc). and release the rules as an 'open source' project... and see what kind of variations it would spawn.
For the board, I just printed it out with our home inkjet and pieced the pages together on a piece of corrugated cardboard. For the pieces, I just used pieces from RISK. Everyone has some extra dice somewhere, and for cards, I just used a regular deck of playing cards and associated each card with the card it's supposed to be. (e.g. Aces are a "Gain piece" and 3s of Spades are "Move ahead 3 spaces") I'm planing on sending my game to Milton Bradley or some other company and requesting payment in royalties.
Casually know a guy who was once considered promising by game companies, flown to brainstorming symposiums and such quite a few years ago. He grew disgruntled. One goal above all others:
Make it dumb.
Remember, the name of the show Paris Hilton starred in will be a crucial packet of American history shortly. Bin Addel, ladel, label, who?
But it does point out that you want a pleasant group experience for people with 100 IQs and no sense of textbook history, science, or math but considerable time before a TV. Carve that away and you have yok/zonument to gaming.
Here's a fine site dedicated to all part of board game creation. It's been going on for over a year now and it's filled with great informations and helpful people.
I would suggest reading up a bit on game theory, the monster work is by John Von Neuman and Oskar Morganstern (I think?) --it is heavy on abstract math in the later chapters but you can skip them--; it explains the basics of game decisions in the early chapters and presents the 72 that Neumann detirmined to exist. A lot of games, particularly computer games (and I know that's not what is proposed but anyway) only really look different--they play alike and have lousy gameplay because they present one or two of the same decision situations over and over. If you analyze classic games you tend to find a variety (4-5+) of different game decisions. [end]
Why plastic? Why not make wooden pieces?
I have a website. It's about Macs.
Making a boardgame, or any other type of game, is about 90% playtesting. Once you have a concept for the flow of play and the game elements, you can use pretty much anything to represent them during the testing phase. Don't put too much effort into the bits and pieces though. They'll change often during the development of the game. During development consider using whatever stock elements you have lying around. Playing cards with index stickers on the back are great. A whiteboard makes an easily changeable game board, and beads are great game elements during development and testing.
When setting about your game design, ask yourself foremost "What do I want the game experience to be like?". Important things to consider are the number of random factors and their effect on the game. Almost any game has random factors of some sortl; chess is a marked exception. The difference lies in the effect the random factors have on the game. Childrens games are often won or lost entirely by the luck of the draw, whereas adults usually require a game won by skill, not luck. In order to achieve this, you'll have to either minimize the random factors to the point where they don't influence the outcome of the game too heavily (drawing 'event' cards in a strategic game, for example), or make them so integral a part of the game that they'll become statistically predictable (production in 'the Settlers of Catan").
Another important factor to consider in your game design is the gaming experience. Ideally a game will have elements built in that retard the progress of players who are closer to winning. Often, in games involving negotiation, the retarding factor is the players themselves.When given the option, players will often turn down the opportunity to do business with an opponent who may well win the game as a result of his actions. If your game contains no such human element, consider using some form of exponential maintenance to slow the progress and make the playing field more exciting. Failure to do so can result in the winner of a game being decided very early in the game. This makes for an unplleasant gaming experience for all involved.
Most important rule of game design is KEEP IT SIMPLE. Anybody who's played computer games is used to a complex gaming environment, but such an environment does not translate to board or cardgames. Complicated maintenance tasks should be avoided, as should factors or variables that are complicated to calculate or whose effect on the gamestate isn't instantly clear. Remember, the best games are easy to learn, but hard to master.
Most of all, enjoy yourself! Designing board and card games is a fun, if challenging pasttime.
I want the fire back.
Wouldn't it make more sense to ask this question on BoardGameGeek?
Pinball is already dead.
We were brainstorming cool stuff to put on a website for our band, RSMinc. Inspired by the Star Wars monopoly set, we decided to come up with our own branded board - RSMinc Monopoly. Just set the resolution really high in Photoshop so you can print it really large, add your band photo to the centre of the board, et voila. We had a contact at Kinkos who printed it up on A2 and laminated it for free. We just use the standard notes from another monopoly set for the cash. You can see this flagrant infringement of intellectual property here.
Solitar started its life as a card game, &
now [AFAIK still] comes with every Windows
op sys under the sun (or doe Asian versions
come with Mah Jong or the like? They should,
but I digress...)
Why not save dread trees, et al. &
skip the paper stage... go directly
to digital.
Us over here at http://www.ccgworkshop.com are constantly looking for people to join up. We use a (windows only :'( ) program called gEngine to play card games online, and have recently started porting over board games too.
If you have an idea for a board game, get on the forum and post your idea on the forum (under The Primordeal Pool) and we'll see if we like your idea and will get the development materials out to you.
We use XML and object pascal/vbscript (eww, i know, but it works) to represent games for use in gengine. Generally any programming knowledge is a big plus :)
j235
Creator of the Sempiternity Card Game -- Coming soon to a gEngine near you :)
that your game doesnt require pieces that HAVE to be fabricated. anyone can give cheap suggestions for generic pieces (just use pawns!), but when youre playing a game where the shape of the pieces matters like say, Tangrams, or Pentominoes, but with non-trivial shapes, then youre in for some hard work before you can even begin playtesting. i just recently came up with an idea for a connection game (think Traxx, Trellis, Visavis, etc) but it needs pieces that I cant fabricate. i am reduced to wandering a hardware store looking for something that just happens to be the right shape.
So instead of questions like:
What year was "Gone with the Wind" released?
You would have
What is the name of the command to see the ports open on a (remote) machine?
and for the 2020 edition you might have questions like
What company folded (whose CEO was ultimately indited) in 2004 after attempting to hijack the Linux IP?
Here's a very quick and cheap way to create cards for prototyping.
Just get a few boxes of card sleeves from a local hobby store (the kind CCGers use to keep their cards pristine). Put some old unused cards into the sleeves for rigidity. Then just print out your cards on regular printer paper and slip them in front. You don't even really have to cut straight. It might look like crap, but it's great for cycling through a large number of cards in early testing phases of the game.
You have FAILED IT, you fucking gibbon.
What kind of game are you making? I'd caution you against book-full-of-charts war/tactics/role-playing type games. They were popular in the 70s, but computers have more or less killed people's patience for that sort of thing.
The best games can be learned in 30 minutes, have no dice, or a very small chance element, can be easily portable, and play best with about 4 people.
Settlers of Catan (simple version, no expansion packs) is the best board made in the past thousand years. Chess & Go win in their respective epochs. If you aren't familiar with all three, you should take a pause before doing any further designing.
Other honorable mentions: Poker (some states allow poker gambling, but not other forms, since it's a game of skill and not luck) Bridge, Diplomacy, Nomic (not a really fun game, but useful as a designer to get you thinking about games)
Monopoly and Risk are terrible games. They both last about two hours longer than is actually fun. Their strategy is about three inches deep, and they rely *heavily* on luck.
Also, if you can come up with the next Asshole, the world will be in your debt. We always need more drinking games.
In Capitalist America, bank robs you!
I had an idea. Make a big cloth board that has certain conclusions on it and then have people "jump to" them..
Either that, or start selling pet rocks or chia pets.
I am over here... now I am back over here!
Spray mount is definitly your solution. What you want to do (cost-efficiency-wise) is make the interim drafts of your game using spray mount and a sheet of heavy cardboard. Now by heavy cardboard, I do not mean 'hack the side off of a moving box'. Larger stationary stores sell well-compacted, pre-cut sheets of cardboard. So you get one of those, and you wrap the back in paper (christmas present style, folding in around the corners) and then slather on some spray mount. When you put your front on you want to line up two corners and use a ruler to press it across.
Sure once you've got a well-designed game that flows, you can probably afford to put out for a pro job, but cards and the board front can be pretty easily made with a nice color printer (go to a copy center if you have a crappy one).
As far as plastic molds, I'd just hit a second hand store and buy orphaned peices for a while. No use getting nice ones made till you're doing a final draft.
Note: it's really easy to make pewter or tin figures. I mean you can melt that stuff with a candle. Make a nice mold using plaster, rubber, or fine clay and make some metal peices a la Monopoly or Clue.
1 - Buy the exclusive right for a Harry Potter board game for $500M to J.K.Rowling's publisher .
2 - Replace the street names in Monopoly with Potter stuff
3 - Have it manufactured by 12 years olds in the Phillipines (their small hands are good at grabbing the small game pieces and put them in the box)
4 - Profit.
I LOVE capitalism.
Hello,
This is slightly off-topic but I thought I'd bring it up. A friend gave me the Monopoly 60th Anniversary Edition in 1995. That's the one with the nice board, brass tokens, ivory dice, wooden houses and hotels instead of plastic, etc.
Sometime in mid-1996 I was discussing the currency exchange between the dollar and the Russian ruble. The person I was with said something like "sounds and looks like Monopoly money" when I showed him a 500 ruble bill. To make a long story short, on my next trip to Russia I exchanged enough US dollars (around $40) to get real bills and coins for almost all the bill denominations for the game. For some (i.e. $1) we use the bills that came with the game.
Now, when we play Monopoly, we play with real money. That might be an interesting twist if you can find a currency that makes this affordable.
Cheers!
E
http://eugeneciurana.com | http://ciurana.eu
Spray Mount is to art production as Hummers are to commuting. The amount of shit you are putting into the air is absurd. Use rubber cement and a brush. Yes, it takes five fucking minutes longer. What, your art project didn't take days to design?
I'm not really a web designer, I just play one on the Internet.
A game I invented in high school.
http://www.Viragotech.com/solo_euchre.gif
cheapass.com
these guys understand games and just sell you what you need. (my personal favorite is 'kill dr lucky' -- hilarious, with high replay value)
anyway this doesn't directly address your question but it's relevant, and you could get some good ideas wrt saving materials costs etc...
La via sola al paradiso incommincia nel inferno
There is a Canadian game called, Poleconomy. It has 2 variations. 1 is economics based. The other is politics based. Unfortunately, the latter can be hard to play because of the complexities of politics, plus feelings might get personal.
Also, there are 2 tracks in this game. Just like your game, the inner track gets rarely used.
There would have to be some kind of special bonus in there to lure people into inner tracks.
testing out my trending skills
Hey,
I've got a small project management company I'm trying to build up and I've got connections to a decently priced printing company. They do not do board games and the like, specifically, but I can check with them.
However, I'm not trying to whore my services--I'm truly interested in seeing what sort of ideas you have and maybe we can pool resources.
-----
"And he raised his hands high and said unto the crowd 'Close your eyes and ye shall never fear again...'"
I too have been interested in creating board games myself, at least in a digital form... I never honestly considered actually designing them into actual retail games...
However, I agree... creating original games that people will want to play and enjoy, even board games, is a really difficult thing to do... to find something that hasn't already been done. I've come up with plenty of board game concepts in the past, and with many revisions/sub-creations from other ideas... and while the game formulas do work, are very original, and are actually fun (to myself at least), I often question what kinds of minds beside my own would play them - would you have to be a strategist, a math whiz, have a high school diploma at minimum, or what? Often I find my ideas are very great, but its hard to find something that a broad variety of people would want to play, as opposed to targeting a small, limited audience... and with such limitations, would the game actually be noticed and/or sell?
Herbert Kohl wrote a nice little book on designing games called (I think) "Math, Writing and Games in the Open Classroom ". His take on it is not really commercial. He was more interested in the possibilities of allowing kids to make up their own games. But it is probably an interesting resource for someone looking at designing their own board game.
I remember back in the day I downloaded a game from AOL where you were a computer company, and you had to get new technologies, and sell computers...anyone remember it? You could download it and print it out, it was quite a blast IIRC.
"Personal ownership is a hallmark of conservative capitalism. And I don't believe I am entitled to anything that I did n
I've made hundreds of small games, and have even had a few of them professionally produced. For book type games (like RPGs), I go with Documation. They're inexpensive, will do small runs, and do a great job. For card game printing, I send my stuff out to India to a place called Print Masters.
It just uses a regular pack of cards. It's called 'Game Developer'.
Jack - A great artist
Queen - A great marketer
King - A great tester
Ace - A great programmer
Joker - a wildcard - more later
All other cards are bumbling useless employees.
Each player starts off with 100 points. A dealer shuffles and deals four cards to each player. If you get one each of Jack, Queen, King, and Ace, you publish a successful game and make 100 more points in sales. Anything else and you lose 50 points in wasted salaries. If you reach 0 points, you're out of money and the game is over for you.
If you get the Joker, you automatically make a successful game (cf: Jeff Minter and Llamatron).
The point of the game is to make me depressed about my occupation.
(I hope this doesn't come across as a gigantic free textad on Slashdot. :-)
:-)
:-)
Hi there, I'm Scott Starkey, designer of the card game "The Mother Lode of Sticky Gulch." My game was honored by the GAMES 100 this past year, a lifelong dream I accidentally hurdled. I would be happy to dispense a little bit of advice.
If you're just starting out, probably the "home-publishing" method could probably work for you. There's a few companies out there that are doing print runs at Kinko's and lovingly hand-cutting their product and selling it. Advantage: Very small cash outlay at the start. Disadvantage: Product might seem a little "cheap." (Cheaper than Cheapass?) Also takes a lot of energy to do each deck.
Secondly, there's the method that I tried. If you're insane, and you've got a few thousand dollars that you'd just like to say goodbye to, you can have your cards professionally printed. There are a few printers around that will do small print runs of 1000 units or so. I went with Delano Service, because of them being geographically close to me, and they seemed to have excellent customer service. My good pal Jim Doherty of Eight Foot Llama seems to get good service in Canada at Quebecor. Fact is, there are several places you could get a game printed at, and there's no obligation to get a quote if you know what you need. In fact, it's rather fun to get quotes.
I don't want to discourage you too much, but creating a game is somewhat of a pain in the ass. You've got to compile a metric buttload of art, design each of the cards, lay it out in a way that's pleasing to the eye, design an attractive package, write clear and consise rules. Most games are designed by a team. Me, I was lucky, because I was already an artist, but it was still an uphill battle. Then once you compile all of the artwork, you might find out that the printer needs all of your art to be 300 dpi CMYK instead of 60 dpi RGB, and have to do it all over again, like I did.
Of course, I didn't realize, after getting the game printed... printing the game is the easy part. Yeah, I'm designing games as a hobby. But now I have to become a marketer, promoter, and salesman. Fact is, I'm a horrible salesman, and I don't like pushing my game in people's faces. Also, if you're running a business, you've got to keep voluminous records of travel, expenses, taxes. It's all mind-numblingly boring, for something that was supposed to be fun!
You might go to a convention and expect to sell a bundle of games. Don't kid yourself. I dropped $500 on half of a GenCon booth last year and sold a scant few decks. Chatting with some of the other boothites, it seems that most companies that go to a convention do not make back their investment at the convention. However, it does serve as good advertising. Having a presence at a convention puts a product in the public eye, which is good. But it doesn't really add up in many direct sales, unless you're Wizards of the Coast in 1992.
I might never make back what I invested. Sales haven't been spectacular, despite having been honored by GAMES. It doesn't really matter, though. It's a wild ride. I am now a game designer with a mote of prestige. I've fulfilled a lifelong dream. It's my biggest gambit of all: I wagered a few thousand dollars that there are 1000 people out there that would buy my game. I get the feeling that very few people make a profit at this game. However, if I justify it as a "very expensive hobby," it takes the sting out somewhat.
You might check out the Board Game Designer Forum, where a bunch of folks of a similar mindset to you and me hang out and talk about the process of creating games. We critique each other's works, and have weekly chat sessions about various topics about the craft of game desi
Ceci n'est pas une pipe.
Id love to be able to get some nice scans of some old out of print avalon hill games some of them are hard to get.
Are you doing this for the "fun" or do you think it would be something that you would eventually market?
If you think you will eventually market/sell it you need to becareful how you go about it. I know someone who came up with some original stuff and started to take it to "agents". (No No, not that Smith guy!) These are gaming agents who review your stuff. If they like it, they connect you with "industry". Anyway, he got totally shot down. To add insult to injury, some time later, he sees his stuff on the shelf in a store.
I think he might be heading to court, but I'm not sure. He tells me that if he does go to court, he will lose any chance of getting published. Taking one of the big boys to court gets you flagged. No one will touch you again.
Two-edged sword.
I've worked as a project manager for a graphic design company -- brochures, business cards, letterhead, postcards, folders, book covers, whatever. And I can tell you that by far, I have had the absolute worst luck sending customers to Kinko's. They don't have equipment for doing die cuts or full-page printing. Often they don't have staff who know what Pantone Colors are or the difference between CMYK and RGB or what an EPS file is (or any vector artwork, for that matter). They're an overgrown copy shop with delusions of grandeur, not a printer. Any real printing services they offer, they outsource, and in either case, you're paying more.
We've had much, much better luck sending customers to Sir Speedy, Alphagraphics, and PIP. If you need to photocopy something, or you're printing a B&W PDF, by all means, go to Kinkos. If you need quality printing, don't touch them.
(And I might also note: don't even set foot in the building with the file. Mail them a PDF with your order, and come in a few hours later. Every time I've tried to use one of their computers to print something, there's been some sort of configuration problem that turned a 5 minute task into an hour. Every time I've given one of their staff a disk with a file on it, a similar event has ensued -- as recently as last night, I took a friend to a Kinkos where she had a three page Word Doc she wanted printed out. We left 45 minutes later with no printed document in hand, and eventually just drove back to my house (half hour away), used antiword, and had the thing in 5 minutes. I don't understand why this is -- I'm sure that we're not the first folks to walk in there with a Word Document, and most of my friends who've gotten jobs at Kinko's have been pretty sharp. But anytime I've done anything other than copy something, I've had a bad experience there.)
Tweet, tweet.
Think about doing a "Cheapass" game. Unless you plan of doing some incredibly beautiful board/pieces, there's no need to do anything special. Just hire a print shop (A real one that does cheap bulk jobs, not Kinko's.) to do it on cardboard and sell it out of zip-loc baggies. If that one does well, invest in cardboard boxes for the next one.
Pitfalls to avoid in boardgames:
-Make a game that can handle at least four players, because very few people look for new games for less than four players.
- Don't make it take a long time-stay under two hours. There are some people who like eight hour games, but those people are few and far between, and they already own Risk and everything from Eagle and GMT.
You think I don't see your Racism? Think again.
I'm not sure if they are still in business, but they had the best business model. They sell you the cards, a board printed on a few sheets of heavy paper, and that's it. The theory is that you have all the rest of it, just get it out of some other game. The games cost about $5 and are a lot of fun...
-awl
Last night I put the finishing touches on the first playtestable version of my board game :)
KS
I don't know about cost but Bycicle cards of Cincinnati does all types of cards, not just playing cards. You have to ask and it is much more professional.
http://www.users.muohio.edu/reamsjp/donate.html
Spraymount Is not good for long term solutions. Spraymount breaks down (Oxidation?) over time. I have used it in a lot of applications and over time, especially with paper products, it will become brittle and as the two layers of materials expand and contract at different rates, you will get ripples, warps, and peeled up edges. This is the exact problem you will run into with images printed on papers spraymounted you cardboard based applications. You can get things drymounted, but that is more expensive.
Kinko's is notorious for screwing things up. They have poorly maintained equiptment because they run the equiptment on the ragged edge to keep margins up. Try a real printer. There are a lot of them out that that specialize in this type of work and can probably get you better rates on bulk. Besides a real printer would probably know the best way to mount the images to a material in a durable application.
If you're making a game that requires a lot of tiles (ala Scrabble) then buy small seramic or glass wall tiles, as used for bathrooms and kitchen walls. They go down to about 1" square, look good, and a whole sheet/box of them is quite cheap.
I work doing Cad/Cam design, cutting molds, and casting processes. I would recommend white metal castings in a rubber centrifugal rig as being the most cost effective with very little startup cost.
In the beginning, the metal pieces will be far, far cheaper than plastic.
If you are not going to be going into full production immediately (200,000 + units), plastic pieces are actually quite a bit more expensive than metal.
Plastic injection molding dies are referred to as "tools", and even a simple one is US$ 30,000 +.
Many are in the six figure range. Each plastic unit manufactured from the tool may only cost a few cents, but you have to amortize out the initial cost of the tool.
Per-unit cost for metal pieces is higher, but the initial setup costs are only a few hundred dollars, sometimes less.
I can do CAD/CAM master/mold cutting and get you in touch with a casting facility in your area if you are in need of one.
check out the software zillions of games. it will allow you to rapid prototype electronic versions of your designs. http://www.zillions-of-games.com/
The Complete Wargames Handbook 2nd Edition. by James F Dunnigan Copyright (C), 1997, James F Dunnigan. Dunnigan's the alpha and omega for the old paper map and counter wargame grognard crowd. He founded SPI and headed it until TSR bought them out. SPI published hundreds of titles including the infamous "War in Pacific" (single ship, company level, week-by-week turns for the entire Pacific Theater in WW2. Over 5000 paper counter and a map that would cover the living rooms of most houses.) Anyway, here's Dunnigan's tome on designing wargames. A third eition is out, but the 2nd edition is here linked free. http://www.strategypage.com/search.asp?target=d:\i netpub\strategypageroot\prowg\wargameshandbook\con tents.htm&search=James%20Dunnigan
My understanding is that the technical term game board goodies is "feelies"... there's an awesome collection of game pieces, etc., available for ordering from feelies.org. You can browse the offerings and price list at http://www.feelies.org/prices.php
Hope this helps!
Eileen
Monopoly was invented 25 years prior. Read the article - it's was created to demonstrate the benefits of a particular land tax system the game's creator was in favor of...
I could not justify my existence if I were a turkey farmer. Would I terminate myself? Undoubtably, yes.
I read through some of the posts and many people are correct about the printing aspects. The heavy cardboard that many are referring to use as a game board is called Book Board. Its higher quality than standard press board and you can get it from an art supply store (the big chains don't usually carry it as its a bit more pricey) but the advantage is its durable and acid and lignin free.
Acid and lignin are what are naturally occuring in paper products and cause things to yellow and deteriorate (think old newspaper). You want to chose your adhesives and your papers carefully to make sure you have a high quality product.
As to the adhesives, spray mount is ok because although it smells and needs venilation it is safe for paper. RUBBER CEMENT IS NOT A GOOD CHOICE. There are some now that are a little better but the standard formula will eventually deteriorate paper. Check the scrapbook section of a large craft chain or a rubber stamping store for large selections of paper adhesives. Also check out book binding sites for glue choices also.
For the pieces there is something out there known as Polymer Clay (better known by the brand names fimo or sculpey to some). Its a colored oven bake clay that is great for sculpting, molding etc. Would be great for prototyping your pieces after which you could have professional molds made and have them cast. Try doing a searh for Polymer Clay you will find lots of information and sites about it. And do research into the brands because some are stronger and more stable than others. FIMO, PREMO are the two stronger clays availabe.
-Cecelia
Log onto www.richdad.com . There you will find the game that Robert Kiyosaki made. He goes into detail how he made the game in the cd/tape series "You Can Choose To Be Rich." Mr. Kiyosaki explains what process he went though to get his books & game published. He and his advisers discuss what steps were taken from a business point of view. I think you will find the information this product contains very useful on many levels.
Jesus christ, don't look on google or something. Just write into slashdot and wait for people to tell you.
I'm so sick of this, if I could turn off Ask Slashdot I would. No I'm not looking it up, I'm waiting for Ask Slashdot: How do I turn off ask slashdot.
Anyway, my best guess would be a printers. Good luck with your game.
"when life gets complicated, I like to take a nap in a tree and wait for dinner" - Hobbes.
To the first fizbin reference!
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
...create a simple program to prototype the game, which will save the costs of creating pieces and cards and all that until you've got the rules down and you know everything works and is fun. Then, once you know it's worth it, go and have your game manufactured.
CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
There are already lots of good posts on how to do a professional run at 1000+ copies. Before you get to that point, you should do a few dozen copies to test with friends and strangers at game cons using techniques like what Cheapass Games does.
:)
For decks of action or play cards, print on pre-perforated blank business card sheets. If you have a board that you play on, use the heaviest cardstock that you can run through your printer (8.5x11 probably). If you want a bigger board, use multiple sheets. Set up interchangeable board elements to hide the fact that you can't print one huge board (like the random placement of RoboRally boards). Use generic glass beads for tokens. For unique pawns, fold pieces of paper into an upside down 'V' shape with a picture on them.
Until you really fine tune the game to point where random people like it even with the Ghetto(tm) pieces, you shouldn't bother with anything pricey, like die cut decks, full color anything (unless it comes out of your own inkjet), or custom designed pawns. Board games tend to be very pricey to produce. Richard Garfield came to Wizards of the Coast with RoboRally and several other board games back in the early 90's. They told him that the board games were far too costly to produce. Eventually he came back with something much cheaper called Magic: the Gathering. It required over 300 different pieces of artwork, but only cost about $1 per deck, or $0.25 per pack to manufacture. Their wholesale price was about 4x that. Once Garfield's net worth hit 8 figures, he was able to produce the board games he originally wanted to do. Keep this in mind when you're trying to decide if the professionally produced decks and die cut pieces are worth investing in.
Anyone making heavy-weight perforated hexagonal sheets would be awesome, but that's probably too much to ask. It would significantly speed my dream of a Nuclear Winter of Catan game.
My neighboor does this for a living. He imagines the game and then the gaming company(ies) he is working for reviews it and eventually goes on to produce it. I would advise you to meet/get in touch with such a guy. If you want to get in touch with my neighboor, send a mail to cedneve@swing.be.
I was wondering if people knew of good resources for how to go about doing this
Get more game than Milton Bradley.
I found the advice found on Doris+Frank's :-).
page quite helpful. Especially they stress how
important it is to be a graphical designer, or, failing that, being married to one
Once you have play tested your game, are happy with the rules, and have a good quality physical copy, you are going to want to sell it.
The standard way to do this is to visit the annual Game Fair held in Esen in Germany, as all the major companies send representatives there and you can demonstrate your game to them.
But be warned - they get very busy, so you are best off contacting the companies a few months before the fair to arrange appointments during it at specific times.
So many people think typical boardgames are like Risk, Monopoly or Scrabble. This is because they don't know any better. Before designing a game, familiarise yourself with the best games that are currently available. If nothing else, they will likely make the shortcomings of your design obvious. I would recommend the following: Settlers of Catan, El Grande, Tigris & Euphrates, Carcassonne, Ra, Puerto Rico, Bohnanza, Through The Desert, Tikal, Age of Steam, Amun Re, Medici, Loewenhertz etc, etc. If you have any interest in boardgames, the mechanics of some of these games will open your eyes.
"New for nerds, stuff that matters"
It isn't news. It sure doesn't matter. Why did this article get selected?
I work with a company that allows any game to be published to their engine for play online. I have already put up one original game and many more are to come. They were originally designed to bring old CCGs online to revive the games.
http://www.ccgworkshop.com
If you are willing to learn the language (modified xml/Pascal) you can do almost anything online. Playing games is relatively free (a small charge for playing more than 30 games / month). The only current issue is that the software has not been ported to other platforms, though it does work under VirtualPC for MAC and WINE for Linux pretty well...
Maybe because some people actually prefer getting together with friends instead of sitting around by themselves staring at a computer screen. There's more to gaming than "awesome grafix!!!!"
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Sorry, I'm only a 1336 h4x0r.
I worked with a guy that created games as a hobby/second income. He used to bring his prototypes into work and have people mess with them. One I remmeber was a sort of chance/propability type game sending a marble through an array of nails to see which slot it landed in.
I do know that he sold several of his games and does in fact get royalty checks every once in a while. I had heard through the grapevine that he hit it big on one game and sold it in a 6 figure deal.
The point of this post is this: Do your research. He had been talking about this game that he'd been working on for months. Some sort of hockey game, and I didn't pay attention. One day he brings it into work and it was stand up hockey players sandwhiched between two sheets of plexiglass. You control the players with magnets from top and botton. You should have seen the look on his face whenI told him that I had owned a similar game as a kid called "Phil and Tony Esposito Action Hockey". He was really bummed.
At any rate, dunno how you go about marketing/selling a game...but I do know that you don't have to work for Mattel to make a few bucks off it.
A good friend will help you move. A really good friend will help you move a body.
This is actually an area in which I have a reasonable amount of experience.
For card games:
You have two options for getting a good looking deck made cheaply. You can buy a pack of 250 sheets of cardstock ($7.00 - $10.00 depending on where you go) and have that precision cut someplace like Kinko's or CopyMax (in OfficeMax). Standard playing cards are usually 2.5" x 3.5", although some are 2" x 3". At any rate, you should be able to get at least 10 cards from each sheet, possibly more, giving you about 2500+ cards.
Alternatively, you can go to your local print shop and have them precision cut some 12-point semi-glossy stock for you. It will look a lot nicer, and shuffle better, but it will cost you much more (I paid $20.00 for 300 cards).
Before you print, you should make sure your card graphics are going to print at the right size. I did things the hard way in Paintbrush, which generally prints at 96dpi, so each card had to be 240 x 336 (for 2.5 x 3.5). More powerful paint programs are capable of resolution scaling and size specification. YMMV.
Now you're ready to print. Arrange your card graphics in page layouts. I generally use 8 cards per page so that there's room between them. Print out a page on regular paper. This is going to be your carrier page.
Get some semi-adhesive sticky notes. Cut the sticky part off and tape it, sticky side up, in the middle of each card graphic on the carrier page. Stick a card on each sticky note so that it completely covers the previously printed area. Print the page again, making sure to have it oriented such that it prints the right way on the cards. Peel the cards off, stick blank ones on, print the next page of cards. Repeat.
You'll probably want to get a corner-rounder punch from your local crafts/scrapbooking store. Do not get the one offered at Wal-Mart for $3.00. It will wear out after about 200 punches. Expect to have a sore thumb by the end of all this.
Pawns: Bearwood sells pre-painted pawns in a wide variety of colors, as well as a wide assortment of cubes, disks, and other potentially game-related items, all at a reasonable price. Note: Only the pawns come pre-painted.
Boards: I was lucky enough to find 8.5" x 11" thick cardboard sheets at the worst job I've ever had. They were being used in a shipping warehouse as padding material for heavy books. I absconded with several dozen, but I haven't seen them elsewhere.
If, however, you are wanting to make your board out of modular pieces, such as hexagonal or square tiles, your best bet is to find a game which already uses the same size and shape tile, and then print out, cut, and spray-mount your own graphics onto those tiles.
For hexagonal tiles, a copy of The Settlers of Catan gives you 38 3-inch diameter tiles for about $20.00 - $38.00 (depends where you buy it). Some places have been liquidating an old Fantasy Flight game called Thunder's Edge for $10.00, and it contains 30-50 Catan-sized tiles(I don't recall the exact count). Lastly, Fantasy Flight sells a game called Maelstrom for $20.00. It contains 150 hexes, but they are smaller than those previously mentioned. Check this pdf to see just how big they are.
For square tiles, a copy of Carcassonne has 84 1.75-inch tiles if it contains the River Expansion (72 if it doesn't), at a cost of about $20.00. Larger tiles may be available in other games, but I lack knowledge of them.
For circular tiles in a variety of sizes, nothing beats a good big set of Diskwars or Range Wars, going cheap at most of the places that sold it. Check
I still think that there wou
Happiness is relative, Based upon the way we live.
I hit submit a wee bit too early, it seems.
Regarding Diskwars and Rangewars, I meant to say: "Check ebay, or the Boardgamegeek marketplace for the best deals."
Happiness is relative, Based upon the way we live.
here
Lots of useful information, links, and feedback.
Ed Wedig
Graphic design services
docbrown.net
There are really three sane ways to go: I've done two of them so far, and REALLY like the idea of the third. 1. Sell to a publisher. You almost have to know someone who knows someone. The money is tiny, TINY, the big plus is that there just isn't much work involved. The danger is of course that they might screw up the design or production. 2. Print 1000-2000. Delano and Quebecor are both reputable companies. Jolly Roger uses Altenberger in Germany which has produced great stuff for my games. The price in Germany used to be GREAT, but the dollar and euro exchange rate has mostly screwed that up. The problem here is that you have to work out how to sell that many copies BEFORE you start producing the game. Attend GAMA. Call distributors, repeatedly pester online retailers. Even 1000-2000 copies will take you 2 years to sell through unless you get very very lucky. 3. Make about 100 copies by hand. I've seen some very impressive ways to do this. db spiele in Germany hand makes their games from foam bits, hand laminated and colored cardstock, and lots of time. Yungames may have the best model. He gets generic black boxes, laser prints rules and color labels on the boxes. Then he uses wooden tiles with laser printed labels for EVERYTHING. The end result is nice, heavy games that look nice. All of the wood makes them a bit pricey, but not that bad. And, you can use weirder bits in your games. I wrote an article about some of my game prototypes here: http://www.thegamesjournal.com/articles/GroovyProt otypes.shtml
This is a great discussion and very timely for me! I'm working on getting a ccg published independently. I've already gotten lots of good info. Check the website: http://www.magewarfare.com. Here's the story so far: My son (who's almost 17) created his own ccg after getting bored with the existing ones. He came up with all the rules and the gameplay and I helped with some cards. When we had 500, we figured it was time to try it out. Our first step was to playtest. We put the cards in a database and used Word's mail merge to produce a whole lotta pages neatly arranged in tables with card-sized cells. We had that printed and cut at Kinko's (more on them below), put them in card holders (using cards from those other games for backing :-) ) and took them to our local comics/card shop and with the owner's support, enlisted some local gamers. We've been taking feedback and streamlining the rules (it was pretty complicated at first), while at the same time enlisting artists through word-of-mouth, our website and artist forums.
It's been about a year and we know have about 40 artists, 80+ pics (more coming in all the time) and a growing number of players eager for the first release. Thanks to a state-funded non-profit agency (http://www.microcreditnh.org), we also have access to some funding. We're still using "homemade" cards - though they look better now - but we had an "official" demo, with local press coverage.
We're working towards a spring release of a 280-card subset of the 500+ cards we now have. The reason for this is to keep production costs down. We did get an estimate for a full production run, including tuck boxes, etc., and that was in the $40,000 - $50,000 range, depending on how many deck variations we wanted. So, we're going with the subset and we will assemble decks and shrinkwrap them for sale locally, through stores on consignment. We will not be selling them ourselves; our job is to promote the game, not get into the retail business. Revenue from this will bring in enough to go into full production.
As for Kinko's, we've found the quality of service to depend primarily on who we deal with. There's one employee who can't even open files from a disk, so when she sees us coming, she passes us off to someone else. There are a couple of employees who've gotten to know us and our project and are very helpful and go out of their way to do good work. Plus, the regional manager has recently started helping out as well. They've already said they can't handle the commercial version, but for our home-made stuff and the posters we've done so far, they've been very good. And besides, they're open when I'm not working, which most other printers/copiers are not.
So, if you've taken the time to read THIS much, then perhaps you can offer suggestions, advice, thoughts...?
Thanks!
Kevin Barrett Mage Warfare http://www.magewarfare.com
I disagree. I could invent a neat product today, but if it didn't get applicable funding and marketing for twenty years, it might be that long before it becomes a commonplace in the home. If you read the article I linked to in the grandparent - you have read it, no? - you'd see that the "inventor" of Monopoly didn't have his success until a family member of the Paker family, who ran the Parker Bros. game company, happened to play it and recommend it to the higher-ups at Parker Bros. Had this person not had the chance opportunity to play Darrow's Monopoly, the game might never have become big. Likewise, had Parker Bros. had a chance to pimp this game in the 1910s, perhaps it would have become big then instead.
People always want to play games where they accumulate wealth, regardless of the country's economic situation.
I could not justify my existence if I were a turkey farmer. Would I terminate myself? Undoubtably, yes.
Better yet, try Pop Copy!
"... and if they have Apple and PC disks, tell them muthaf*ckers we use Linux!"
...about IP paranoia, as one would expect from an experienced professional.
I do have a story that is more humorous than informative: In the early '80s one of the major game companies encouraged prospective designers to submit games to them as a way of applying for a job. I did so, using a working title which I thought was "not commercially viable." They lost the prototype I sent them and subsequently published a warning that no one should send them games (without even acknowledging they had been encouraging it for years). Then another game company announced a game with the same title as mine. I went in to complain and was hired. Go figure.
When the other company's game came out, it had no resemblance to my game whatsoever (although the title did prove to be every bit as nonviable as I had imagined).
As far as the distributors/publishers confusion, publishers are often guilty of blurring this line. WOTC and Games Workshop are famous for it. And both of them also operate retail stores. "Game Trade" magazine is a good source for this side of the business, although I don't think Mike Stackpole is still writing his highly informative column for them.
A lot of good ideas have been posted in answer to the original question (especially about forums and web sites dedicated to the subject). Here are a few less-than-obvious suggestions from a professional game designer:
Eternal vigilance only works if you look in every direction.
I know I'm a day late to this question, so this will probably be lost, but I hope it is useful.
i ves.shtml
P aper/
the board game designer's forum has a lot of information.
http://www.bgdf.com/index.php
deck of boards talks about game systems and using them for design. at the bottom there are several links to places that sell bits.
http://www.di.fc.ul.pt/~jpn/gv/dob.htm
The Games Journal has a lot of useful information.
http://www.thegamesjournal.com/Arch
printable graph paper
http://www.incompetech.com/beta/plainGraph
those are just some random links i had on hand. good luck. i would also encourage you to remember that there are many people that like to play games that are color blind. it's not a bad idea to run your color selections past a few color blind guys (different types) to make sure that they can play without too much difficulty. oh, and playtest playtest playtest. you can't do too much playtesting, and make sure you vary the people you playtest with.
fnord
Game Trade Magazine is a promotional and preorder mag from Alliance Distribution, and wouldn't be a good place to get info on being a publisher. You are thinking of "Comics and Games Retailer" from Krause. Stackpole still does a column there.
But that's only a concern if this guy wants to get into the game publishing *industry*, not if he just wants to publish a game. Going into the market is a whole different can of worms, and not for the casual. Like any business having a good idea means nothing to this market, you have to implement a strategy and work your tail off. Since the margins are low and the market smaller than the rightoff for most major motion pictures, it usually doesn't make sense.
There you can find lots of advice on game design, manufacturing of games, distribution issues, etc.
-- Herder of Cats
KublaCon in the Sillicon Valley had a board game designer competition that was attended by one of the biggest names in game design (Reiner Kzinsa, I believe... pardon the spelling). The winner, in part would get the opportunity to pitch their notion to a very open-eared gaming company (or two, or three). Fantasy Flight Games is publishing a host of "$20" quick little games, but I haven't heard if they are solliciting any applications, or are mostly translating lesser-known games by big named designers overseas. I know they've been taking a lot of chances and expanding outside of their usual roleplaying books and Game of Thrones CCG. ;-)
The gaming market is getting more open to newcomers and smaller companies, it seems (even after the big D20 System boom has subsided, the smaller companies have stuck around... many of them trying very hard to diversify into traditional games!). Another GREAT way to break into the game publishing/designing business is to be in attendance at GAMA - the annual roleplaying/hobby tradeshow in Las Vegas. Everyone who is anyone in publishing/producing shows up for it, and it is just for industry folks, so there isn't the overhead of fanboys that you have to deal with at GenCon.
My $0.02
- Danielle
knows_wills_dares@yahoo.com
Game*Alot in Santa Cruz, CA