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Dcube: Portable Audio With Ogg And A Scroll Wheel
Slowtreme writes "There have been many attempts recently to cash in on Apple's iPod success. Napster, Dell, and others have made iPod clones. This Korean Dcube looks like they are going all out. With 1.5 gig, Ogg and MP3 support, grey scale display, USB2.0, wireless, FM radio, it looks like a nice device. Most noticeable however is the scroll wheel, Apple holds patents (pending) on scroll wheel design. How much noise will this make?" (The Napster-branded one is actually a Samsung product; Samsung, too, is supporting Ogg Vorbis in some models, though not in that one.)
I would like to see more MP3 makers use FireWire. I speed of updates is very nice. When I got my iPod my whole mp3 collection was on it in less then 20 minutes. (ok I have a small 10Gb collection) But with speeds like this I can run a program off of it, or store large data files off of it. Also the iPod is more then just a mp3/aac/what ever player, it makes a great portable hard drive. I don't use the Pim stuff off of it because I have a good Palm, but that is another story.
Rio Karma supports Ogg-Vorbis and FLAC files already, is 20gig, and can be had for less than $250. Where's the justification for buying a 1.5gig player? Apple is on crack and the Dell is just a rebadged Creative Labs Nomad Zen.
:(
BTW: IRiver also makes an Ogg-capable portable, several of them, but their 20gig model is about $399.
When I hear OGG, I immeidately think that it must be whack, but slashbots constantly say that won't buy something unless it supports OGG. Is it like 220V power or USB something? What is it? good or whack?
If this is cheap enough, I'll definitely buy it.
The one thing still preventing me from buying a portable audio player is the price.
I don't need 20GB of music in my pocket, 1,5GB is more than enough for me.
The path I walk alone is endlessly long.
30 minutes by bike, 15 by bus.
It even LOOKS iPod-ish
My wife would love the FM recording, too.
I'm on a chair.
It's great to see a relatively unknown company come out with a (hopefully) great product that can compete with the big boys.
I've had a couple generic MP3 players over the years, but nothing that could compete with an iPod.
My lack of God, it's Trotsky!
It's also kinda funny that, on the web page, the device's display shows a couple of Beatles songs. (The Beatle's record label is Apple Corps)
I never fail to be amazed at how often companies try to copy Apple's design only to produce a product that looks similar but is noticably uglier.
It's like on Charles in Charge where one of the sisters was noticeably hotter than the other one, and yet in one episode the ugly sister won a beauty contest just to show that there's more to a person than looks but that didn't change the fact that everybody still would rather jump the hotter sister.
"Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."
Any Roland/Akai/EMU rack-mount synth or sampler.
Ha! Apple should be happy if they aren't sued because of patent infringement. The australians patented the wheel before them.
How hard would it be to have, instead of a wheel, a thin strip of the stuff they use for touchpads in laptops (god, how I hate them, give me a trackball anytime) on the side to replace the functionality of said wheel?
I don't think it'd be TOO hard, and the results would probably be good.
---- Take the Space Quiz!
All the best interface designs are obvious ... in retrospect. You can't just say "It's a wheel!" without recognizing the enormous amount of effort and care that went into its design and engineering.
The wheel is what makes the iPod unique, and it deserves its success because of it. This is one of the good uses of patents, in the sense that it gives a manufacturer a temporary monopoly as a reward for innovative design, and will hopefully spur other innovative designs in the iPod comptetitors. Seems like a good thing to me.
http://www.nextway.co.kr/images/products/temp.jpg
On the DCude site. It looks like their hand model must be having a heart attack off-camera; if the picture gets slashdotted, just imagine a hand with fingers contorted into a clawed husk, with the nice little dCube in the center of the hand.
Looks very freaky.
IMHO, these are the real iPod killers out there. Very similar in size and shape, sleek design, cheaper (at third-party retail sites) for the same capacity model, and with twice the battery life, better PC support (windows and linux), FM tuner, recording equipment, and OGG support for those who care. No dock, though. ;-)
I am *not* an Atomic Playboy, but I *am* a cheese-eating surrender-monkey!
Babelfish Translation of the Korean Product page
However don't set your expectations too high, it seems they still need to work a bit on their Korean translation engine:
Quem a paca cara compra, paca cara pagará.
I realize they're pricey, but stop running and accept that you'll eventually pay extra to get an iPod. Stop running to the ends of the earth for every "iPod-killer" to come down the block. The amount of money you'll spend on each new pale substitute will be so much more than you'd spend on the iPod, which works so well with iTunes. This is an intervention, my friend.
Maybe I'm missing the point here, but my Creative Nomad Jukebox 3 has a scroll wheel on it which I can use to scroll to songs, and generally navigate the interface, and I'm pretty sure this predates the iPod...
Sunday you're Thinking Different, Monday you're a huge tool, paying too much and waiting to think like everyone else.
i didnt see anything about the price....are these gonna be in the hundred dollar range that people thought the new ipods would be in?
NaTe
Don't confuse this Dcube with NEC's D-Cube .
My lack of God, it's Trotsky!
As regards portable music playback devices, don't compare apples and ogg ranges.
I thought Apples patent related to the Solid State scroll wheel (no moving parts). Having no moving parts is a novel idea and should probably be allowed a patent. Now, I'm not sure if the scroll wheel in this device has moving parts, as my Korean isn't quite up to scratch, but if it doesn't and they haven't licenced it I'm sure they'll be hearing from Apple.
I imagine that Apple will consider that device a knock-off of the iPod and file suit. If the device stays in Korea, then perhaps there won't be a problem, but I can't picture Apple letting that thing show up on store shelves in the USA without a fight.
You are in error. No-one is screaming. Thank you for your cooperation.
Where can I get one before Apple crushes them?
Anything invented by OOG the OpenSouce Caveman is allright by me!
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
How is that different than a scroll wheel on a mouse?
Ogg is simply a better codec than MP3. The codec simply makes music sound better when played back. In MP3, you get audio artifacts (usually higher frequencies). Ogg/Vorbis attempts to minimize this, and the result is simply a better codec. The downside to Ogg is that it takes a fairly hefty processor for a mobile player to reproduce the sound. Thus, the player costs more because you're using a faster/more complex processor. For audiophiles, Ogg is a very good thing. For budget listeners, MP3 is a compromise.
I'm sorry, but a scroll wheel is what sits between my left and right mouse buttons. Pick another name OKTHXBYE
And actually, the jog dial was on the beocom 6000 cordless phone. It's used for the same functions -- to select a name from a big list and to navigate menus -- so I don't see how using it on an mp3 player would be different than using it on a phone.
HIV Crosses Species Barrier... into Muppets
FINALLY - an MP3 player with a digital FM tuner. Is this the only one? It's the only one I've seen.
I'm a 2000 man.
My prediction is that this will happen.
You've got to love those underscores in the song titles! :)
They're seriously apeing the iPod's look quite a bit with this one, though -- down to the white earbuds.
mbbac
No moving parts...You mean just like the touchpad on laptops?
NO! Nonononono. Dude. Come on.
This is Slashdot. "I don't need 20 GB of music".. of course you don't need it. But you will demand it. As a... nerd, or something.
Now suck it up, and demand a 1 ounce 50GB overmediaplayer with a folding plasma screen and support for Ogg Stupidname. For $50. It is your goddammed right!
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
IMO, the US patent system has basically desceneded into little more than a registry service. By submitting a patent you're declaring, "I had this idea on this date." There doesn't really seem to be all that much checking going on to see if the idea is actually patentable in the first place.
I see things like this "scroll wheel" patent as an example of the ridiculous things that get rubber stamped at the patent office. It's not as if Apple invented the scroll wheel/jog dial. They've been avaible on VCR's, DAT's, etc for quite a long time. That leaves two things their patent could cover:
1) Using a scroll wheel with *gasp* mp3s.
2) The specfic details of how their scroll wheel interface works.
(1) would be a junk patent. (2) would either be so broad it was a junk patent, or so specfic as to be worthless.
Life is too short to proofread.
I wish a player had AM support, I never listen to FM and in my area AM has all the good sports radio and talk radio shows.
A good FYI and discussion can be found Here
"It's Ogg. It's Ogg. It's big. It's heavy. It's wood."
Isn't that an old Ren and Stimpy song?
No, wait. That was _log_.
Because it's an iPod.
The reasons that I can just say that, and lots of people know what I mean, is the answer to your question.
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
I bought a second generation 20GB iPod soon after they came out. However, I now have more music than I can fit on it and I'm getting interested in re-ripping my tracks at higher quality or even investigating FLAC. Also, Apple is doing me a disservice by preventing me from using Ogg-Vorbis which I still think is superior to LAME's output. If I download .oggs, I then have to go through decompression and another round of lossy compression to create mp3s that will play on my iPod.
As such, I'm very interested in the latest releases of hard-drive based mp3 players. I especially like the look of the iRiver players and I'm hoping to try out my friend's new Rio Karma. Nevertheless, I will have to save up again if I want to get a new player and there are a few minimum feature requirements I can't help thinking would be easy to include on a new player.
I don't give a shit for ITMS compatibility or crappy organiser-style features or games. I just want to be able to fit all my songs in my pocket and find the right tunes to play when on the train. Is it really too much to ask?
Turkeyphant
For the love of all that is holy... The Beatles and NSync on the same PLAYLIST?!?!?!? WTF? =)
"Yeah, well, Dracula called and he's coming over tonight for you and I said okay."
Yep, but in a circle with a button in the middle, acting as a scroll wheel.
My last MP3 player was a Compaq IPAQ-1. Compaq stopped supporting it and I had a lot of problems trying to get their software to work on Win 2000/XP/20003. I can't just copy my music to its memory cards because guess what? It is stored in a proprietary format. That means you need to have their software which means that if they go out of business or don't support your OS, your nice little gadget is worthless!
With my NexIIe, I can just plug the device in via a USB cable to my computer and it shows up as a disk drive. I can copy music files (or even copy other files for storage). If I want better performance, instead of connecting the NexIIe, I just pull the CompactFlash card and put it into a card reader. I use no tool more complicated than explorer to manage my music.
The current firmware even supports CF up to 2GB. I don't see why you would want a 2GB hard drive when you could have 2GB of solid state. That said, it would be nice to have a 10+ GB version of my player.
Evolution: love it or leave it
Hate to mention it (again and again) but the Neuros 20GB model does everything that this promises to do, and you can buy it today for $200. http://www.neurosaudio.com/ Yes, it is bulky, but it does OGG, FM radio record, FM transmit, and a bunch of other stuff. Plus it has a nice Linux app.
USB 2 is popular now, but it is very new, especially on laptops.
For my money my favorite is still the Neuros
So by painting a picture of a circle on a track pad, you think you should get a patent?
Is this truly the only Earth I can live on?
Rio's past players and products have a shitty track record though. I'll wait to see how long the Karma's last before investing. Great to hear it has FLAC support.
-- taking over the world, we are.
are going to be models with gigantic hands
We shall take Ogg Vorbis to New Hampshire! And South Carolina! And New Mexico! And California! And then we'll take it to Washington, DC! AND TAKE BACK THE IPODS AND WINAMP JUKEBOXES IN THE WHITE HOUSE!!
sulli
RTFJ.
There's also the way it scrolls through long lists quickly, and the way it interacts with the other buttons, that make it such a great and unique piece of interface design.
Hmmm.... just like to jog dial on countless other electronic devices?
Sure the wheel is a good idea, but it's hardly original. And it's not really a major innovation either, more of an evolution. Ever heard of Pong?
Life is too short to proofread.
Ok, this thing certainly has A TYPE of scroll wheel. And yes, Apple has patents for its own version of a scroll wheel - as well as the way the wheel itself works and how it works specifically with the i-pod. It could be that this company has absolutely ripped Apple off.
But Apple isn't suing anyone or releasing statements detailing its intentions to do so just yet, mnk? Lots of things have scroll wheels. My mouse has one. I don't think we can patent a simple hardware control itself. i mean, why not patent a toggle switch if that were the case?
How about we wait and get just a LITTLE more information before we start branding patents as ridiculous or, on the other end, start a wildly speculative crusade to protect Apple's intellectual property.
** Chigusaaa!!! You're the coolest girl in the WORLD!!! **
On this page in the flash banner, it lists it as "FM Transmitter".
I think that's quite a cool feature. Maybe it does both? Dunno... but thats nice to have an FM link built in so I can just carry it in my pocket but listen to it on my car stereo without connecting it to another little box.
Who gives a flying crap about OGG. It's always like Linux users to root for the underdog. In this case however, OGG means shit in the "real" world.
+5 Troll and +2 Flamebait modifiers.
well, looks he was exagerating, unless ebay has some.
& i=
$259 (after $20 mail in rebate) + free shipping according to pricewatch.com at:
http://www.shopharmony.com/product.asp?file=PWA
And here is what babelfish thinks it says about "FMT":
The dimensions are comparable to iPod.
The iPod mini is 3.6 by 2.0 by 0.5 inches
The iPod 15GB and 20GB is 4.1 by 2.4 by 0.62 inches
The iPod 40GB is 4.1 by 2.4 by 0.73 inches
The D-cube is 88 by 48 by 19 mm (3.46 by 1.88 by 0.74 inches) using the conversion chart
So, the DCube is smaller in height and width compared to the mini although almost as thick as the 40GB iPod.
Free XBox, PS2
I have to say that design wise, it looks like a poor cheap imitation of the iPod. The iPod is expensive and there are better specced mp3 players out there. the rio karma is an excellent example (mp3,ogg, flac) and inclusion of ethernet socket along with all the other usual connectors. Some people claim the software management software is a little ropey, but at least it works with Linux as well and Win32 and OSX.
...
I would personally prefer something like this than something that is such a failing iPod lookalike Wannabe.
It would be nice if the iPod were a bit cheaper and had Ethernet, Ogg and Flac support to boot. But it aint. I like iPods! They look and feel exquisite, but there are other reasons to buy a product like this and apart from design, function is also pretty important.
As it is im stuck with a crappy CD based MP3 player. When I get a job ill be getting one, although i havent decided to go with the one that looks nice (iPod) or the one that supports those extra file formats and has an ethernet jack(karma).
nick
Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
old firewire ( 400Mbps) is usually faster than USB2 ( 480Mbps) becaus usb2 is often botched up with cheap components. firewire is more reliable.
Of those to whom much is given, much is required.
Too much to point out... but the iPod is completely overrated as are most Apple products.
I have an iRiver iHP-120. After comparing all the drive based models and found that the price/feature balance was better represented with the iRiver.
Wrong! For audiophiles, FLAC is the very good thing. Ogg is compromise. (MP3 is a joke.)
This is incidentally why paid-for music downloads are a waste of time.
You're paying through the nose for sorely inadequate sound quality. (WMA? That joke's so bad it's not funny!) HPH
Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
Let me guess you are one of those idiots that spends 2x 3x on t-shirts/hats simply to advertise for a company...
Do you want to use the damn thing to listen to music or as a status symbol?
I agree that this is one of the more reasonable patents to be mentioned on Slashdot, and it does make sense for Apple to have some temporary protection against knock-offs. But 20 years? By the time this patent expires, who knows what portable music players will be like.
Uhmm, WTF are you talking about? Ogg will decode on a freaking SuperSparc 50Mhz with pretty much no lagging. Given the performance of modern embedded processors anything 32bit at 75+ mhz should have no problem with ogg, even less if they use the non-fp decoder. -- vranash
Prof. Farnsworth - "Oh a lesson in not changing history from Mr I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!"
I think that the scroll wheel patent would be a pretty minor point in Apple's legal whacking of this device. Its design is an obvious copy of the iPod, and would be actionable under industrial design law. Apple successfully sued EMachines for ripping off the iMac design, and this looks like even more of a rip-off than their machines did.
Because in this case, the wheel is used as the primary navigation system to select and move through the menu and settings. Though I haven't read the patent, I'm sure it's very specific to it's application in a portable music player. Much like I'm sure the patent on the mouse scroll wheel is specific to it's application on a computer interface.
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
makes no mention of the ipod lookalike (NHD-150D). Perhaps they can get away with copying the ipod interface in Korea because of differing IP laws?
The english site link:
http://nextway.co.kr/english/
Sounds like a rapper
I hate Grammar Nazi's
not to be funny (i run my iPod on Linux) - but does the Karma play nicely on linux?
And I could make a portable music player with a plastic fish pasted onto it that lip-synched all the songs played on it, and that would be unique too, but it doesn't mean I get to patent the stupid thing.
Actualy, I'm sure you could patent it.
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
Whew. There for a second I thought you were going to say that Josie Davis (ugly sister) was hotter than Nicole Eggert.
Then I thought - hmm, what did she look like. Hey hey! Doesn't look like she turned out too bad .
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
If there's no firewire, it doesn't compete with iPod.
Period.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Sorry to go around Slashdot being some kind of mp3-champion but i think it gets an unfair bashing around here sometimes. The LAME team (which I'm not part of) has put an enormous amount of effort into getting transparency at around 200kbps and to say otherwise is doing them a disservice I feel. It is true however that the design of MP3 as a spec has some limitations which are not completely solved even by using very high bitrates, for example, however your post exaggerates the severity of these in real situations. OK I'm done :)
OT: How do you spell art[e/i]facts anyway? :)
This is my Sig, this is my Gun. One is for Slashdot and one is for Fun.
Yeah, but the people who know what you mean don't need the answer to the question. Elucicate, oh mystical one.
XML causes global warming.
No, because that isn't how it works. The wheel pad will not respond to motion that moves radialy, only motion that moves arround the circle. Likewise, unlike a trackpad, it registers continuous motion, there is no need to stop at the edge and reposition your finger.
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
I'll have to get one of my wives relatives to send me one. :)
Cypherpunks: Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics. Those who live by the sword die by the arrow.
Talk about an open-and-shut case. This thing will never see the light of day looking like it looks in those photos. You can bet the farm on it. Apple Legal will have a C&D out to these guys in no time.
and if you had a wheel that didn't MOVE and wasn't transferring ANY rotational motion (it's like those touchpads on laptops and you move your finger around it in a circular fashion and...) then it WOULD be unique AND patentable. it's a 'Touch Wheel' not a 'Scroll Wheel'
second, the way it does convert your finger motion into actually navigating the menus IS also unique. if i have a large list and circle the touch wheel slowly, it steps through them. if i circle more quickly, it moves through the list more quickly. however, it's not a linear relationship, it is related to the number of items in the list and the speed you circle the pad (and not linearly). scroll wheels on my mouse and any mouse i've ever used have never acted this way, one click is always 3 lines (or something similar)
I would be willing ot bet that the important distiction is that pong (IIRC) used a knob while the iPod actualy uses a wheel. Sure it's a petty distiction, but it's these types of distictions that make things work.
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
THAT'S NO CUBE
REM Old programmers don't die. They just GOSUB without RETURN.
Have you USED it? It's not the same as a mouse wheel or other wheels. You can move the wheel the same distance and it goes through the list at different speeds depending on how quickly, or how slowly, you move. You can move the wheel 2 inches and go through either 5 songs, or 100, depending on the speed.
It's not just the fact that it's a wheel, it's how it interacts with the interface.
Rio Karmas are the slickest players out there imho.. it even has a fricken ethernet port. Also a big screen and good interface design. In case you didnt know, Rio was bought out and resembles the old rio in name only so the previous customer failures shouldn't hound the new company. People are so convinced iPods are the greatest thing in the world that they dont even consider competition to it. My girlfriend wanted to get me an mp3 player for christmas and after much research i decided on the karma. She thought she would suprise me and bought the more expensive iPod and I was blown away at first. After playing with it for awhile im not too impressed. Sound quality is shite, interface is very intelligent tho, although its the one with the touch pad wheel which is neet at first until you try to use it while walking or something. iTunes tho is total crap and pisses me off to no end. And per the original topic, 1.5G??? what self respecting geek finds that useful..
---------
No matter how thin you slice it, its still baloney.
>>stop running and accept that you'll eventually pay extra to get an iPod
Nosir, let me assure you I won't.
When Apple chose to put politics above business decisions by naming Al Gore to their Board of Directors, I swore off purchasing Apple products forever. As if a man who has never held a non-government job is going to have much to offer a corporation in terms of leadership. And before you think I'm merely a partisan, let me say that I'd feel the same way if it was any other lifelong politican from ANY political party. I believe that Gore's position on the Board exists solely to gain Apple political influence, and that's wrong.
Problem is, it's not just Apple I'm boycotting. I'll not purchase another Hewlett-Packard printer (after being a loyal customer for years) based on their decision to export, excuse me -- "outsource", American and Australian jobs to India. Same goes for IBM, GE, Sears, Oracle, and Ford.
Now, before you think I'm just a trolling protectionist, let me explain. I have no alternative than to vote with my paycheck to try to affect change; It's not like our "duly elected" politicans listen to the wishes of the public anymore or act in the best interests of the nation. IMO, they craft legislation based what's been bought-and-paid for by lobbyists. Well, I think it's time to undercut those businesses that put short-term gain over national interests.
Voting with dollars at the retail level is the only recourse I have and if that's what it takes to get the attention of business and get them to understand that not everyone wants cheap widgets at the cost of the American jobs, at least I'm doing my part.
I am not the above type of person, yet I own an iPod. Once you own one, you just understand. Every other music player just seems uncivilized.
"Nature doesn't care how smart you are. You can still be wrong." - Richard Feynman
I would be willing ot bet that the important distiction is that pong (IIRC) used a knob while the iPod actualy uses a wheel.
My point was that the ipod's wheel design is simply an incremental change from other devices. You can't take an idea that's already out there in the marketplace, change one little thing, and patent it.
(Well you can, but the patent will be tossed out if it's ever challenged)
Life is too short to proofread.
Depends on if you're another person who does not rip their own music, mearly steals it from other people. Kinda sounds like you might be in that catagory. There are people out there that don't belive in ripping off other people. Why not use the best codec? Why not expect products to support what you want? Why pay a tax to the frau^^^^houfenber people?
"think of it as evolution in action"
Damn straight! Who cares about these crappy lossy formats! If it doesn't support FLAC, I refuse to buy it!
(p.s. for the humor impaired, the above is a joke.)
The track pad can be easily programmed to behave in just this manner. Indeed, it depends on the software being used... in fact, I think this very approach was used by Strata3D to better allow for the manipulation of objects in 3D space.
It's stylish, it's useful, it's simple... but it isn't original. It's a wheel! And whether it's solid-state or made out of oak, it is still the same concept, a concept that has been with us for hundreds of years.
Is this truly the only Earth I can live on?
... if I don;t want one?
This device approaches what I would like.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Both artefact and artifact are considered correct, although artefact is preferred in Commonwealth English while artifact is preferred in American English. As with grey and gray, choose whichever you or your editor prefers.
Ogg is dead! Does anyone still use it?
Yes, I've used it. It's a nice device.
I'm not arguing whether it is nice or not. I'm simply saying that it doesn't deserve a patent. I mean, c'mon, it's a wheel! People need to start getting a grip on reality here.
The fact that it responds differently to the rate of motion isn't original either. This is a tried-and-proven technique that goes all the way back to DOS, if not earlier.
Is this truly the only Earth I can live on?
What the original poster was saying is that FLAC is good for audiophiles, because there's no loss of sound quality at all. OGG is a compromise because it sounds pretty good, at least better than MP3 does, but it still can lose definition due to encoding, not just the hardware you're playing it on. Audiophiles care about that sort of thing, and thus FLAC, not OGG, is great for audiophiles.
Of course, with most portable audio players you'd do more to improve sound quality by getting a decent pair of headphones than by playing OGG than MP3, especially if you use a decent bitrate for encoding. The number of people who keep their stock 25 cent to mass produce earbuds on their $200+ players is pretty sick.
If not now, when?
-iTunes is not available where I live.
-I have all my music collection in OggVorbis format.
-I don't use any of the major desktop OS.
-I don't need a replacement for my PDA.
-I don't think it is cool (it looks plasticky, like a toy).
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Ogg will decode on a freaking SuperSparc 50Mhz with pretty much no lagging.
Some of the devices in the marketplace use a 16 MHz ARM7TDMI processor and a dedicated MPEG audio decoder chip (for MP3). I wonder if those can decode even MP2 (MPEG audio layer 2 at 44100 Hz stereo) in software.
It's a feature that my USB dongle plugs into a Mac, Windows, Linux without special drivers, and it just works. I can put anything I want on it, up to capacity.
While we're at it, I want a digital camera where I can plug in a USB dongle.
I have three digital cameras. Kodak, Samsung and Olympus. They're all USB. They all come with USB cables. There are three different camera side connectors. So, I can't just keep the cables plugged into my PC, because I can't spare three ports (I only have six). The Samsung doesn't talk to my Red Hat 9 (yet) - so there's some sort of protocol change too. Feh. It's got to work out of the box.
-- Stephen.
... is to endorse subsidies at the expense of local consumers.
Think a bit about that one every time you ennact your little boycot.
It is good tiome people would have learn some basics about global economics, but no, the protectionist bug will not be put to rest...
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
It is much cheaper and wait for the 2GB to go down in proce.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
BTW: IRiver also makes an Ogg-capable portable, several of them, but their 20gig model is about $399. :(
:-)
Coincidentally enough, my iHP-120 arrived the other day, and only cost me 250
In 1992-1994, I used an Emu Proteus MIDI synthesizer module whose menu was controlled with a rotating knob. Settings in the menu included choosing a recording out of hundreds to use as an instrument sample. Obvious extension to navigating similar menus in sequencer modules. Obvious extension from selecting a .mid to selecting a .mp3. Busted.
How about the ones who don't have huge-ass music collections? The majority of my collection would fit on that 1.5 gig unit.
However, since most of it is OGG, they wouldn't play.
So,yeah, as other people have wondered, how well does the Karma work with Linux? I'm getting a new system soon, and I'm getting frustrated with my CD/MP3 Player (I'm not sure whether it's the discs I'm using, my burner or the player).
A "Scroll Wheel" normally refers to a wheel on the side of a device such as a PDA that is used for scrolling.
What you are referring to here is a "Scroll Pad".
Wheels turn.
Dunno if this might be prior art...but, I had a Mitsubishi VCR UD-??, that had both on the remote and the unit...a jog shuttle, that not only did the video..but, would work on the menu system too I believe. And it was a wheel much like this...or at least similar...
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
That still doesn't explain why they should have a fscking patent on it. It's just a wheel and/or touchpad.
How do you manage to listen to "a few dozen of albums" in any meaningful short space of time.
Lets say a few dozen albums=4 dozen, that is 48 albums.
if 1 album= 1CD then you are talking about roughly 48 hours of music.
Dividing that evenly accros a week that is almost 7 hours a day of music.
I would be damned if I would be hooked ot a player for that lenght of time.
Even at the more modest (bust still high) 1 hour per day of music it would take 48 days, that is 1 month and a half to listen to all that.
So I don't believe all this rubish that you need that much music, it is simply physically impossible to listen to all of it.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Just like variable acceleration using the MS-DOS logitech mouse drivers from the late 80's early 90's?
Not new, not unique, not deserving of a patent.
flac is whack. All the shn is where it's at. Does anybody support them?
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
Sure, its not just a wheel, but i had a minidisc player that used a wheel for input ages before the iPod even came out, (we're talking 6 years, and i doubt it was a brand new model when i bought it). Its main use was for adding names to tracks, although IIRC you could use it for changing tracks etc.
Admittedly it wasnt snazzy and recessed like on the ipod, more like those you get round the outside of some watches, but i would hardly call changing the finish and recessing something innovation.
I'm not sure 100% of the Rio software is available on Linux, but the Rio itself has a webserver (over ethernet) and can run a rather nice Java client to transfer music and files with. I've also seen post from several users on the riovolution.com website that mention that they are running Linux.
-Redundancy Man strikes again!
It works like a charm.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
- RCA
- Quassar
- GE
- Audiovox
- iRiver
All these budget companies have created audio crap since i've known about them. What makes you think something thrown together ripping of a patent and having all these features for dirt cheap is going to be worth the money or the ink used to print it. I think the 1 out of 5 Ogg users need to find a different codec or brew up their own firm ware for a decent product. It seems everything wants to touch the iPod but as of right now none of them have all of these Loyalty, Quality, good branding, a good track record of not making audio garbage, international support forums (ie ipodlounge), and excellent 3rd party accesory support. iPod is the new "i'll have a coke" and " can i have a kleenix" The only thing at this point that can kill the iPod is a better iPod. _g"It'll destroy you if you try to make it mean anything to anyone but yourself." - Henry Rollins
Not to mention that Ogg Vorbis is not patent-encumbered like MP3 happens to be. Have we already fogotten the lessons learned by the Unisys GIF/RLE patent fiasco?
There have been a couple of deals in the past where you could get one for $250. It's usually priced in the $280-$300 price range.
-Redundancy Man strikes again!
Underloved Movies and Pub Quiz: donotquestionme.org
considering most of their other (seemingly lesser) products go for W200,000-W300,000 ($150-$250 ish) my guess is it won't be "cheap enough"... the korean at the bottom says it will be out late february to early march (and that the specs can change without notice... right)
Are you retarded? this is one of the FEW things that deserve a patent.
just because it uses a common design (the wheel) does not mean that its application is not patantable. infact, this is the exact kind of inovative work that the patent system was set up for.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
you do not scroll it by grasping it (pong) or by thumbing the edge of the wheel (scroll mouse, the sony jog dial) but by spinning the wheel from the face to select from a list.
Beatmania, an arcade game series made by Konami, involves spinning a wheel from above to select a song. The first Beatmania machine was sold to the public in 1997.
hahahhaha.. i took a look at the link and it makes sense.
The problem is that altavista seems to be doing a literal translation (taking each word and translating it). The problem is that the grammaticaly form of korean is different than that of english (and similar to Japanese, and I think Chinese and Hungarian).
The difference between this grammar (I don't kwow the official linguistic name for it) and english grammer is noun and verb placement. For instance:
In English, one would say: "I'm going home".
In Korean, one would say: "To home I go."
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
which ogg? Do you mean vorbis? because if so, I'm just silly. I rip all my CD's to FLAC.
Jack Valenti and Orrin Hatch will be first up against the wall when the revolution comes.
Love your signature :-) Hark, here comes the Macbeth troll!
What is with all of these mp3 players coming with tuners?
Did I miss something? When did radio begin to *not* suck?
I've got every CD I own, and ever album I've downloaded from Emusic.Com or purchased through ITMS on my iPod. Having that much choice is a wonderful thing.
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
If they would just add FLAC support... or if the Rio Karma would add the FM tuner I'd finally be happy.
Jack Valenti and Orrin Hatch will be first up against the wall when the revolution comes.
From the FAQ on the website you linked to:
Can I use Karma with Linux or my Mac?
Yes. RMMLite supports Linux and OSX. It is developed by resident Java god, Mike Schrag, and is constantly being updated. You may connect to it via your ethernet hook-up on your Karma docking station. Currently, you can transfer files but cannot do firmware upgrades via ethernet. RMMLite resides on a webserver on your Karma, included with each new firmware update. More current updates may be found at this site.
Looks neat. Wish I had $300 to burn.
Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
The only way to transfer songs is Linux at the moment is through the ethernet interface, because the USB interface does not implement the mass storage standard.
You have to connect the Karma player to your LAN (using either dhcp or keying in a static IP into the device). Then you point your web browser to the embedded http server on the player and download a java program that you can use to transfer songs. The program is not fancy but it has all the essential features it needs for daily use.
It must be mentioned that you cannot upgrade the firmware from Linux yet.
On the whole, I would say that the process of transferring songs in Linux is harder than with the Korean made players, but still easier than trying to get the iPod to work in Linux since at least Linux is supposed to work out of the box.
so use AAC.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
Audiophilia? I suppose it has some point, but ultimately what you get out of great music isn't about the sound quality, it's about the performance. I know I'd far rather listen to an old scratchy record (or an mp3) of Maria Callas or Joan Sutherland than a near-perfect DAT recording of some lesser opera singer.
"'I pass the test,' she said. 'I will diminish, and go into the West, and remain Galadriel.'"
- JRR Tolkien.
mp3 doesn't support gapless playback. mp3s have encoded silence IN THE FILE. Thus if you play them back to back (as the iPod does) you still end up with a gap.
The Karma does have crossfading though, his some people thinkg is as good as gapless playback. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't, IMHO.
The ethernet on the Karma is a joke. Small points for having it, but have you used it? It took me something like 80 minutes to put 3 gigs of music on a Karma over ethernet. And even though the dock has lineout and ethernet, you cannot control the Karma remotely. You can make a playlist remotely, but you can't even start it, let alone skip forward and backward. Lame.
Note USB 2.0 sync speeds are normal, it's just ethernet which is horribly slow.
What the hell? I couldn't bear using iTunes. It's bloated and featureless. Its sole purpose is to help me steal music over the school network with the assistance of MyTunes.
I use EphPod to put music on my iPod. When I'm using GNU/Linux, XMMS is my musical staple. If I'm booted into Windows, I'll use WinAMP 2.x to play my music over iTunes every time. iTunes has shitty encoding options - it doesn't even come close to EAC with LAME or whatever your encoder of choice is. However, my biggest complaint about iTunes is its insatiable hunger for resources and slow response. Plus, it takes up half my screen, has zero customisability and I can't find a half-decent visualisation for it anyway.
Good software, my eye.
Turkeyphant
So, what exactly does iTunes do that I care about?
Jack Valenti and Orrin Hatch will be first up against the wall when the revolution comes.
That's also why I use Right Guard. Anything else would just be uncivilized
But isn't there prior art? The iPod's wheel is for navigating music, unlike a VCR jog wheel or the cellphone examples others have given, and that makes it different for a start. The way the scrolling accelerates to navigate a long list, as another poster pointed out, is also unique. IANAL, but I think there are enough unique features here to warrant a patent.
But the final verdict, for me, comes from this: plenty of other manufacturers have attempted to produce an iPod killer, but by universal consent, none are as easy to use. I think that's enough to prove that the iPod's design is worth of recognition.
Once again, I remind you: all good design is obvious, but only in retrospect.
I just picked up a Neuros 20gig player with an fm modulator, etc for 192.00 USD. It even has an opensource package that goes with it so you can do what you want with the unit, as well as store any sort of files on it. I believe it has Ogg Vorbis support as well, as someone took the opensource project and added it. just a nice package that is sort of under the radar.
What's your deal, man? "flac is whack"? Could you be, perhaps, a little more specific than that?
FLAC is an open, free standard. Shorten is owned by the guys who wrote it. Does "anybody" support Shorten? Talk to the Shorten guys.
But it's probably already too late. Several portable players already support FLAC. Magnatune.com offers music in FLAC format. The train already has left the station, and Shorten was not on board. Why would a company pay to license Shorten when they can use FLAC for free, and FLAC is better?
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
unrelated to chinese. chinese uses the SVO order like english:
(subj) (verb/action) (object)
i go home
while japanese and korean share the SOV. the reason why the subject is dropped is that as in japanese, the subject is frequently already understood and denoted in context by a sort of "topic marker":
na-nun chiberu kanda
i'm home going
finnish and hungarian are related in the finno-ugric language group, so share similarities; it's been suggested that korean and japanese also fall into a larger group, ural-altaic, which includes the finno-ugric group. the chinese languages are all in the sino-tibetan group.
Well, you just described a jog-shuttle that has been used in video editing since video has been around. So if that's really what Apple has a patent on, then it is rediculous. However, others here have been saying that you don't move the wheel, you simply touch it, so it's a touch pad designed to work like a jog-shuttle, which might not be a totally idiotic patent, just a mostly idiotic one.
common sense: noun
What those who are ignorant of the subject matter think; usually wrong.
Boy, does that patent sound stupid, my old monitor has a scroll wheel for monitor adjustments...press it to bring up adjustments screen, rotate to desired icon, press again to adjust, adjust, press again to select exit icon, press again to exit. Also, what about 20 odd years ago when those big supercomputer cad consoles had those prgrammable panel of round knobs that could be programmed to adjust cad drawings (i assume)???? Is the patent office stupid...you shouuld check out the article on the register www.thregister.co.uk about the UK patent office changes to small co. patent law where the patent office (themselves) can now determin the outcome of disputes...
People AREN'T ignoring OGG format. Hooray!
that's why I'm voting for him!
sulli
RTFJ.
Wow that sounds almost as intelligible as some of the Ogg slashbots trying to make a point!
Would you tell me where you purchased it?
I have been looking for this one and could not find a place to buy it below something about 430eur.
I really think this is odd, the Euro is at 1.30 Dollars and still all the products cost a lot more Euros than Dollars. Something in the world trade system is seriously broken.
TIA,
-silence
Dyslectics of the world, untie!
HOW could you forget? :-)
ah.. thanks for the clarification.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
yes, correct. I guess I through the "I" in there even though it's really implied (like the other replyer said).
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
Well, I'm no expert, but as far as I'm concerned all these features have been achieved across several successful and affordable players. I can't see it requiring a significant technological leap to put them all on one device. Most are simple tweaks (firmware updates and UI) or necessary for the easy playback of my music (sorting by tag info, gapless playback).
From what I've learned, it seems that the only people likely to be of any help in this matter are the makers of the Rio Karma. Why is it that Apple can put Solitaire and an address book on the iPod but are still incapable of pulling their thumbs out and including basic double buffering?
Sure, maybe I could live without the inline remote and FM tuner, but I can see no reason why manufacturers would leave out such features that require so little effort to include...
Turkeyphant
I bought my Rio Karma yesterday and it pretty much rocks my world.
I had a little trouble starting off because the java app they included for transfering songs (only for non-windows) was corrupting files in the transfer.
If you get the new one from the website (they say it's 1.02 but it's really 1.01) it works like a charm.
The 1.5G models are a novelty I think. For just a little bit more you can get a much larger capacity. Also with the 1.5G you have to decide what you want to take with you today. With the 20G Karma I take everything that I bother to care about.
After using iTunes for a bit I'd be hard pressed to use any other music software.
Your sad but temporary state of ignorance no doubt proceeds from the fact that you haven't yet tried Media Center.
Da Blog
It's my understanding that it's these subtle differences that allow people to make generic versions of otherwise patented products. I'm not saying it isn't a stupid way of handling things, but c'est la vie
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
So by your logic, a mouse and a trackball and a trackpad are all the same thing? After all, they're all devices that translate lateral had motions into onscreen movement for navigation of a computer system.
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
I think this is a better pic though.
Besides it's not you'll lose any quality if you need to turn some of your shn's into flac files. should be pretty fast too.
Because it's a functionaly different design. If you were today to invent a plastic as light and thin as silk but with the stregth of steel,you could patent it, despite plastic already being invented.
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
No, a laptop is not a portable music player. It can be used as one, but it is not one. You're trying to say novacaine isn't original because people have used anesthesia to make you not feel pain.
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
Ogg. FLAC if your hearing/equipment is better than average. Vorbis for us mundanes. And Speax for audiobooks. :-)
Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
That's one of the main reasons I haven't bought an iPod. None are big enough.
The cake is a pie
If you're looking for prior art on using a wheel to select music, look at the AMI juke box. I'm sorry I didn't think of this sooner. On the cheaper models, instead of separate letter and number buttons, you spun a wheel to select a record, the letters and numbers in a window changed, and you pressed a button to play the record - selected from a "menu" - whose letter and number were currently showing. This saved on separate solenoid actuators. The wheel was spun from the edge, and due to the direct mechanical coupling there was no artificial acceleration effect {but obviously if you shoved it harder, it went faster, up to a point}. Otherwise I think it's prior art in this case.
..... But what if somebody already patented the idea of patenting an idea for patenting something, in order to earn big money claiming a fee from me every time I claimed a fee from a lawyer who was helping a client claim a fee from an injured party using a method I had patented? Where will the madness end? Sooner or later all the money in the world will belong to lawyers, and nobody would be worth suing even if anybody could afford it!
Some things just should not by their very nature be patentable, and I think the way a control actuator works is one of them. Otherwise what will you allow to be patented next?
No, if you want to patent daft things, try patenting personal injuries. I'm surprised the National Ambulance Followers' Federation haven't got their members offering such a service already. Then not only can you claim compensation when you hurt yourself, you can also claim royalty payments the next time someone else hurts themself the same way you did!
Unless I could patent the idea of patenting an injury in order to maximise the payout for yourself and your legal representatives, in the event of an accident that was not your fault
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
It's not an iPod though. The 1.5GB player he was referring to is the Dcube, it being the subject of the story and all. Try to keep up.
...wearing a skin-tight topless leather jumpsuit, with cutaway buttocks and transparent crotch panel.
Not to mention the fact that navigation is poor.
Furthermore, a 1GB flash card can be quite expensive (> 200$). A 1GB card + NEX player is just as much as a 20G HDD based player. Yes, you do get awesome battery time, but you're also very likely to listen to the same tune twice within that battery time.
The Raven
Rotary phone.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
This is the worst iPod knock-off I've seen yet, and I'm sure the scroll-wheel interface helps out a lot. Yikes.
Moof.
I don't rip to FLAC because my equipment or hearing is superior (my hearing has been going downhill of late). Although I can sometimes hear artifcats when I'm really listening, even VBR lame encoded MP3's sound good enough for most cases. The reason I rip to FLAC is that I see my rips as backups as well. Since they are a backup I want all the information there.
Jack Valenti and Orrin Hatch will be first up against the wall when the revolution comes.
Not really.... iPod dial lets you choose from a virtual list that could not possible fit in the space provided by allowing more rotations, while the rotary action of the phone is a side effect of the technology needed to transmit the selection, not to allow you to select from an arbitrarily large list.
Underloved Movies and Pub Quiz: donotquestionme.org
I've got a very old remote control lying here for a Grundig video recorder that has exactly the same "wheel" to control fast forward and rewind (with variable speed).
Yes, it's a touch pad, not a moving-parts wheel.
The MP3 the sound quality and the enemy who jump over a file 500Kbps until it will be able to remake the ogg file which is proud a dosage from the NHD-150D.
but with no list selection. I believe its the whole combination that is patented, not just the wheel itself.
Underloved Movies and Pub Quiz: donotquestionme.org
"Most noticeable however is the scroll wheel, Apple holds patents (pending) on scroll wheel design"
Oh guys, guys, GUYS! This is NOT a scroll wheel! A scroll wheel is something a mouse has! This is a JOG DIAL!
"Yesterday" and "Gone"...
You know what?
The Apple Scroll Disk allows for uninterrupted continuous scrolling- this is not possible with one finger on my Clie's Jog Wheel or my Logitech's Scrollwheel.
Totally better to quickly and accurately scroll through long lists without lifting and starting over.
For the same compression ratio I'd defy anyone to hear the difference between mp3 and flac. especially if using vbr.
I'm not saying that there is no difference I just strongly doubt that the difference is audible.
Surely the best format is the one that gives the best compression for a given level of percieved quality.
---
imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie...
Check this out.
He first asks:
Are you retarded?
And then goes on to say the following:
this is one of the FEW things that deserve a patent. just because it uses a common design (the wheel) does not mean that its application is not patantable.
So we get to patent things that use a common design, i.e., we get to patent things that have already been invented. It's been used for hundreds of years--no, strike that, it's been used for fucking millenia--but hey, it's Steve Jobs, so, like, let's all bend over.
You know, the tragic thing is that Apple keeps getting all this applause for innovation, but I can't think of a single idea they've contributed to the industry. Not one. Everything has been ripped off from others. *Everything.*
Microsoft does the same thing, sure, but they don't get away with claiming they innovate. Apple does.
Why is that?
Is this truly the only Earth I can live on?
And rotary phone has three-letter "menu items" associated with the digits. Not to mention radio tuning with "linear menu" of stations, multimeters with large number of positions for a single knob, and loads and loads of other devices that implement the same idea in all its versions -- none of them considered worthy to be patented.
Now suddenly there is a trivial variation, and it's patentable while the rest of things weren't? This is just ridiculous.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
I got it here. Price seems to have gone up to ukp 255 now but still a bargain at that price.
No one said the those were not patentable when they were invented - they might have been at the time. It has been quite a while for those inventions and they would be out of patent now if even if they had been patented.
Underloved Movies and Pub Quiz: donotquestionme.org
I knew I forgot something, damn lossy memory. ;-)
Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
The legitimate fight is promoting quality, not incentivaiting bad companies that happen to wrap itselves in the glorious US flag...
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
But I have a basic level of organization that is obviously saving me a good deal of money in fancy music players :-).
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
As I posted in reply to another post, consider the motion you use when scrolling through a long document using a scroll wheel on a mouse. It's not a fluid motion; you turn the wheel a little, you lift your finger, you turn the wheel a little more. Turn, lift, turn, lift. On the iPod, you move your finger in a complete circle, thus allowing a continuous and fluid motion. It takes just a moment of playing with the iPod to appreciate this. Head to a store that sells iPods (Apple Store, Target, CompUSA, etc.) and test drive one. Or, heck, just move your finger in a circle on your desk, and you'll immediately see the difference. The same thing applies to jog dials that other people have hinted at. Dell might not get the difference, but users sure do.
There ain't no rules here; we're trying to accomplish something.
If it was as simple as you think, why didn't somebody else come up with the idea? Heck, why didn't you come up with a device using such an interface?
Listen, it's so easy to look at a patented device, and say, duh, that's so obvious! Of course it's obvious, once you've seen the idea. But computers have been around for decades, and yet we've only had the iPod and it's scroll-wheel interface for a few years.
It's the easily-copied ideas that need patent protection the most. Consider Eli Whitney and his cotton gin. Again, an idea that looks obvious, once you've seen it, and mechanically, a pretty simple device. And yet, farmers went for centuries without it. Once Whitney brought it to the market, it could be easily copied. And it was. Poor Mr. Whitney couldn't profit off of his invention, and spent more defending his patent against copy-cats than he ever made selling it. As a direct result of these copies, patent law was revised to offer inventors better protection.
Reject the Slashdot party line, and realize that patents are valuable because they encourage invention by allowing inventors to profit from their work and innovation.
There ain't no rules here; we're trying to accomplish something.
More like 4 years ago. I bought this minidisc (Aiwa AM-F70) in '99 complete with scroll wheel. If this isn't prior art, I don't know what is:
http://www.minidisc.org/aiwa-web/amf70.html
Perhaps Apple's patent is specific enough as to differentiate between that design and what Apple has done?
CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
Ogg is not simply better. It all depends on what you mean by "better".
If you have a portable player, better may not mean Ogg. What good is Ogg if you've got an iPod? Even if you do have a portable player that supports Ogg, like the Rio Karma, Ogg drains the battery more than MP3 would.
So in some ways, Ogg is better. Don't discount MP3 just because it isn't Ogg. Sure my Karma can play lossless FLAC and lossy Ogg, but because I also have other equipment that doesn't support Ogg, it doesn't really make much sense, does it?
FYI, Ogg is not a good thing for audiophiles. FLAC/APE are much better, since they're lossless. And whether Ogg is better than MP3 is debatable as well. There are some people who think LAME has a better psychoacoustic model than Ogg. I'm sure the LAME vs Ogg argument is enough to start a flame war between each of its proponents.
I'll stick to my LAME 224ABR encoded MP3s, thank you.
It's just a very nice tool to use with the iPod, that's all. You don't need it, I don't need it, but I do enjoy having it. I don't and can't use the music store, but iTunes makes it very easy to organize, sort and import files through a very nice interface. There's also a lot of scope for extending functionality through Applescript. I'm sure there are lots of alternative apps that do similar things, from proprietary tools to OGG/MP3 handling Perl scripts, and that's great. But an iPod and iTunes have a very nice synergy. One of the features I really like is iTunes' smart playlists, and the ability to create them on the iPod.
Well, there you go. Some people like it, is all. I think it's a very well designed piece of software and it's certainly the best music handling program I've used. YMMV - try it and see, if you're curious. Won't cost you anything.
I transfer music to my Karma through the Java client running under Linux syscall emulation on NetBSD. So, yes.
Do you have a
Nah, it's more like he's saying novocain isn't original because people could have used a large rock to knock a patient out during oral surgery.
There ain't no rules here; we're trying to accomplish something.
The Rio Karma is 46% bigger than the iPod (78% thicker).
20GB Apple iPod: 6.1 cu in
20GB Rio Karma: 8.91 cu in
20GB Karma: 2.7" X 3.0" X 1.1", 5.5oz
20GB iPod: 4.1 by 2.4 by 0.62 inches, 5.6oz
I have a digital camera that's 1.3" thick, and that's pretty thick for a pants pocket - it's really prominent. 1.1" is probably similarly brickish. YMMV. A jacket pocket would probably be fine, though.
My advice for portable audio gizmo shoppers: make sure you actually see the products in person and that you get to handle it & play with the UI (i.e. not some broken demo model that doesn't turn on) before you buy it... don't just buy one based on a feature matrix. It could have a crappy UI, or be flimsy, or have a crappy screen, or weigh a ton, etc. etc.
Yeah well when ogg first was around, the mp3 players couldn't play it right because it needed a more powerful processor. It went down something like this. Cost of mp3 player plus licensing for mp3 codec was LESS then cost of mp3 player plus hardware needed for ogg support. So then the only reason for using ogg was that it was open source and stuff.
My Gawd WTF...