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Linux in Canada
Flxstr writes "Lots of Linux articles in Canada's national newspaper today, starting with Calgary switching from SUN Unix to Red Hat Linux. Another article discusses whether Linux will become a target for viruses as its popularity grows. This article mentions how Linux costs less, so more firms are becoming interested. Finally, an article discusses how pushes by major vendors such as IBM, HP, and others is speeding acceptance of Linux over other alternatives. Altogether, some good articles for any CIO's desk."
Linux, eh?
What's that, a Pengiun? There ain't no penguins in Canada!
Casual Games/Downloads
Canadian dollars cost less than American dollars.
I have been pwned because my
If they were serious about saving money why did they invest in Intel? Why not AMD to really make a statement about proprietary lines go with the IBM Power PC.
As we all really know viruses are spread by stupidity of users, not the OS'es, so Linux popularity on the desktop will be it's deciding factor to virus targeting.
As it becomes easier to use and more useful to dumbasses who still open attachments they aren't expecting, it will likely be targeted more by virus writers.
According to the Bank of Canada's website US$699 ~= CA$917.79
Trolling is a art,
In my opinion, Canada is definitely a more favourable environment for Linux. Partly because of less Microsoft influence spreading FUD about it, and partly because they don't develop laws designed specifically to stifle technology like the DMCA and the Patriot act. ... I'm not proud any more :(
I used to be proud to be an American because of our technological culture
Even if this is teh case I think the bigger problem will be when we have more Joe Blogs users who surf the internet as root. I see a lot of n00bs doing it and we always try and talk them round.
Even with the distro installers creating a normal acount its still worryinglt common. Run as root and you are more likely to be pwned in a nasty way.
A (Mostly) Proud Calgarian.
We have more than one, you know.
Will someone please tell these morons that the underlying architecture of *nix based OS's with their permission structures, and the need for admin passwords to do any system level changes, make them MUCH harder to write a serious virus for. SCREAM it if they don't hear you. I'm really starting to get tired of this crap.
Windows is also more standardized than Linux, Mr. Friedrichs says. There are a number of distributions of Linux from different vendors, with differences significant enough that a virus or worm designed for one won't necessarily have the same effect on all the others. That fragmentation is a good thing when it comes to discouraging virus writers who want their work to have the maximum impact.
There's another advantage that they don't mention. Linux plays nicely with the BSDs, Solaris, OS X, and most other operating systems, so it really is easier to have a diverse environment - not just diverse distributions, but diverse operating systems and architectures.
Yes, Windows will work okay on a heterogenous network, but it doesn't really like it much. Compared to the shared UNIX foundations of Linux, OS X and BSD it is much easier to have all of them happily running side by side on the network sharing resources. Linux or Solaris workstations for the research division, Macs for the designers, Linux and/or BSD for the servers, developers get to choose their platform... and maybe even a nice pretty GNOME or KDE desktop for the paper pushers.
Jedidiah.
Craft Beer Programming T-shirts
About those viruses becoming more prevalent...
Can someone balance that FUD with equivalent numbers from MacOS X?? It's a lot more popular than Linux, and both haven't been plagued with viruses(yet) in widely publicised numbers.
The bit about multi-user was nice, but user-education about the benefits of proper privilege separation is very low, and needs to be addressed by those people who think changing OSes is a solution to the social problem of viruses. Of course, a lot of CIOs would rather use viruses to justify spending half a mil to change servers, than 10000$ on training... Even on equivalent returns...
That's also a social factor.
live feed even! http://www.montrealcam.com/en-biodome.html
I goto SMU and I know that we (as in cs faculty) have been slowly getting the univeristy aquianted with the whole open source ideas. Problem is there are still many people to educated, the in house tech support peeps still havn't fully grasped the whole idea I don't use Windblows and manage to be able to figure out how to map a network drive without logging 1st into the NT network and using all the XP "special" login scripts...
Actually, Brian Kernighan, the K in 'AWK' and 'K&R', is Canadian. Or at least he was born here.
However, he's been in the States long enough to mispronounce the last letter of the alphabet.
Now now, very few Canadians actually hate Americans. Many joke, but few hate.
Not only do we have more than one newspaper, we are also proud to announce that we have more than one telephone, as well as more than one automobile!
It takes user stupidity to infect a Linux box with a virus, namely because you _don't run as root_ unless it's necessary (su, please) and no code is therefore fully trusted. Therefore, it takes an idiot running as root, _multiple_ steps thanks to the encrypted archive files), and a Linux port of a virus to infect a Linux box.
With Windows, it's open, input password, extract, run. Wow. You're boned. Simple, ain't it?
Linux is secure simply because no one runs as root for daily work. Those who do are either idiots or have _really_ strong bowels.
Striking fear in the authors of godawful fanfiction, I am here, appearing in darkness, Tuxedo Jack!
Theo lives in Calgary, so why not support the local boy :)
Another Calgarian
I shall go and tell the indestructible man that someone plans to murder him.
Cool. When did Steve get a car?
The following replies are posted by unwashed nerds.
The main reason why the Globe and Mail, ran these articles is because the Real World LInux show (www.realworldlinux.com) starts next week.
The Linux Professional Institute (LPI) is offering discounted LPIC exam certifications at the event, BUT here's the CATCH.
They're offering the exams at the same time the Keynote Speaches are being delivered...I guess the braniacs at LPI figured that tech's are a bunch of 'properller-heads' and won't understand the business of Linux...
I think I'm just gonna get an RHCT and screw the LPIC.
... but in the print: a full page infomercial from M$ consisting entirely of:
...
a) Anecdotes about random Canadian companies that still prefer Microsoft products.
b) a big TCO diagram pulled from an IDC study "conducted for Microsoft."
Clever Microsoft, focussing on their core business market:
CIOs with no critical thinking skills
Linux takes in Canada. Microsoft says 'Eh?' RIAA continues to cry over inability to force ISPs in Canada to release the names of folks running linux servers that utilize file sharing apps.
Another article discusses whether Linux will become a target for viruses as its popularity grows.
I say bring it on.
Linux systems might be vulnerable to root exploits (as are all things on a network), but I want to see how well we would do against viruses.
As we've all seen, Windows systems are very vulnerable to fire-and-forget attacks, which pick up momentum as they infect. I want to see how well an automated attack can propagate itself against Linux.
A few years ago (10?) the Alberta government started to move the primary focus of Alberta business away from the Oil patch. At that point in time, Alberta was sort of a one-trick pony - most of the head offices for the Oil industry were here (and situated in Calgary), with a large number of the smaller businesses supporting the larger (fewer) oil companies.
If the Oil economy went down, so did the rest of Alberta. Bad.
Over the past 10 years, business diversity has increased a tremendous amount; the oil industry is still a large part of our economy, but not so large that we'd be hammered to death if the price of oil dropped substantially. It would hurt, but much less than it would have 10 years ago.
Part of the reason for this success is the high level of technology in this province. Calgary especially is very high tech, and this latest story just enforces that point. Businesses tend to move fairly quickly here, and are able to take advantages of the benefits of newer technology.
Through the use of and research into technology, Calgary is both a very good place to work and live.
" Linux was like the dancing dog -- it's not about how well it does, it's that it does it at all."
that is very disrespectful. how about a dancing penguin?
You need people like me so you can point your fuckin fingers and say, "That's the bad guy." So what that make you? Good?
"Another article discusses whether Linux will become a target for viruses as its popularity grows."
Yes, it will and distros like Lindows that run the default user as root had better get their act together. Poor judgement calls like that could make Linux the next security joke right behind Microsoft.
I just installed Mandrake 10.0 and noticed that it offers an open source anti-virus product called "CLAM." According to the docs this product will automatically update its virus definition files. So assuming that these files are kept current we may be way ahead of the curve on this.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
Good day, eh! This Linux thing is a very good thing for the economy and all that. However the only penguin we acknowledge comes from Pittsburg and we don't like that Mario Lemieux guy all that much. If it sucks as bad as that hockey team did this season, I wouldn't stake my reputation on that penguin eh.
How 'bout we make our own brand called Maple Leaf Linux or Red Toque. Or maybe we can call it Gretzky Linux and charge 99 Canadian for it.
Heck in Edmonton the best one-two combination was Gretzky to Kurri -- The Great One and a great Finnish guy. Gretzky did his best work with the aid of a Finnish product! So is Linux good? You bet! I give it a hat trick rating.
This is true, and granted, as more apps for the linux desktop become widely used, exploits involving them will be more easily propagated.
Last May. - Steve
...but Calgary should be switching to OpenBSD. They'd have plenty of top notch support nearby.
The meme police, They live inside of my head
Virus writering/crackers are master at spending little energy. They will write them to go for the easiest target possible with the most damage being a side effect.
As soon as linux is one of the easiest targets, then we will see lots of them. Until that time, well...
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Mr. Friedrichs says the majority of viruses and worms today are aimed at Windows, because of its large installed base. Threats that target Windows also tend to have more impact and get more publicity than those aimed at Linux, because there are so many Windows-equipped computers for them to affect, he says.
From what I have read and understand, the install base has nothing to do with it (or very little at least). The problem is that MS software is so easy to crack.
For example, MS Exchange has roughly a 85 million install base. That email system has been hit hard over the past several years. Lotus Notes has not been hit nearly as hard (if at all) during the same time frame. If install base had anything to do with it, then one would assume that Lotus Notes has a substantially lower install base than MS Exchange. The fact is that Lotus Notes has a comparable install base (of roughly 90 million).
It's the insecure software that is the problem, people!
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.
Does Office Bob still have the other phone?
I might point out that the telephone was invented in Canada!
As linux popularity increases... we can hope for some of the following:
/mnt/nfs/myupdatescript.sh &
a) Lindows doesn't become the primarily popular distro
b) Users will *not* run as root - see (a)
c) Root SSH disabled (most distros do enable root SSH by default) or no bootup SSH server
Open SSH ports (or NFS for that matter, but it generally needs some more setting up) with root access and easy passwords would be the gold for virus writers. The same for root-level user access. Give the users their sandbox, let them play in it, and let the viruses be restricted to them too.
Yes, virii will happily nuke a user's files, and possibly attempt to email themselves outward (we *can* protect against this in many ways in 'nix) - but at least they won't have the potential to bork an entire system... and if they're restricted to ~/ or other public areas then they should be much easier to clean.
My concern is that to allow installation to be simple enough: applications will become something like "You must be root to install this application. Please enter your root password" - in which case viruses will follow suite and, well, same problem as windows. Maybe the concept of becoming "superuser" would instill enough paranoia to keep users from clicking and becoming root, but I doubt it.
However, that's home users. For businesses - don't give employees root - and suddenly you have a much tighter environment. We're setting up a lot of linux machines here at work. I've made a base image for them, bound the individual machines to DHCP static IPs as well. My primary server has a public key in authorized_keys for all the desktops, so updates/changes are as simple as:
for IP in $LINUX_MACHINES
{
ssh $IP
}
(in this case I obviously allow root logins via SSH, but none of these machines have a public IP)
"if you want to really defend yourself, the way you defend yourself is by diversity."
It cuts on both ends. More diversity means less chance that _all_ your systems will be compromised, but increases the chance that some of them will. I think you are better of using one system that you know how to secure and keep secure well.
In my case, that would be any open-source *NIX - *NIX because I know the workings reasonably well, and open-source because I can verify it's not doing something sneaky.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
'e should be wearin' a toque, eh? With a little slab o' back bacon sittin' there beside 'em, 'eh?
What say to that, eh?
The problem is, that even in linux a dumb user is still a dumb user. Instead of this:
/usr/local/bin/pwned, /etc/pwned"
"Install: Bonzai buddy will be installed to C:\program files\pwned"
You get something like:
"Install: Bonzai buddy will be installed to
"Error, you need to run as root to install this program. Please enter your root password:"
*****
"Thank you. Installation will now continue"
You don't think it will happen? Just wait. Safety comes in that the user doesn't always get the root password (and is patched against root exploits)... at least in a business environment Vs home (and at home *MY* family members ain't getting the root password).
What?! Windows install doesn't allow you to select keymap?
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
I wrote an article on my website about this very topic almost 3 weeks ago, but it is not as quite in-depth as the Globe article and is from a different angle.
Well I say Linux in every where! I just installed Fedora, with out a hitch, and am excited to see how easy it has become (I tried once and failed greatly in '95 or so). Viruses? Well of course, but I can't imagine any thing like Windows OS has experienced. Before downloading the ISOs I installed W2k and less than 10 mins had a virus that was rebooting my pc. (blaster!) Right now the only "virus" I'm afraid of is when I am root.
Have uncle bob have his root password in the "KWallet Password manager", because it so more convenient...
Make Konqueror use some KPart plugins or KIOslave
like those for cmd or apt-get,
have a web page that "FORCE" the user to say "YES",
launch apt-get or cmd with sudo and do some damage.
Another way would be to fool the user to enter his root password.
Don't worry experience shows that people are easy to trick.
Just think about how many people have all those junks like weather thingy,
internet time synch and similar.
And for those not realising VBA on KDE is replaced with JavaScript,
KJSEmbed can do enough harm via DCOP,
if misused properly much like VBA can do on Windows, so please.
I never said that it's not convenient,
much more like VBA was convenient on Windows or WScript for such matter.
The 'real' problem is educating 'dummy users' who just install, click, accept anything on their box,
if they do it on Windows... don't worry they will do the same thing on Linux.
People who don't apply security patches for Konqueror or the Linux Kernel will be as
problematic as those who don't apply 6 month old
security patch on Windows and that still get CodeRed infected.
I know Linux tends to release patch faster and such, but for 'dumb uncle bob' that might
not save him from some worms that exploit some bug in some Linux applications.
Let's assume there's a root exploit bug in Konqueror or X11 or KDE.
Let's assume there's a patch.
Let's assume user bob, don't know what's a patch, he ask neighboor's X once every 6 months when his in trouble or things get screwed up.
Let's assume some guy wrote some rootkit exploitable program for that bug as a "convenient" example NOT to be used.
Let's assume some ScriptKiddie find that webpage and say cool, let's make some worm, just to look cool at school among his geek friends.
So, he write some worm make use of KJSEmbed, DCOP or whatever he might find
and send the thing as an innocent HTML attachement to a bunch of people randomly.
Guess what happened?
But yeah Linux can't get virus...
it's just more tricky to trick people out, but not impossible.
So, think twice!
You can have easy-to-use, features or security, pick any two.
Man, that's a BEAUTIFUL website!
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
Last time I checked out contract list, we were still supporting a fairly large number of Sparc/Solaris boxes at the city of Calgary. Much of the storage has migrated from antique Sun systems to NetApp, though.
I don't know what part of the city's infrastructure has moved to Linux, but it's certainly not all of it. This article seems a bit...blind.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
Yes, it's a good thing that we don't have concentration of media ownership up here.
P.S. Try Googling "Izzy Asper" or "CanWest"
Not only do we have more than one newspaper, we are also proud to announce that we have more than one telephone, as well as more than one automobile!
Hell, I'm even thinking of getting a second igloo.
Well I knew that :P lol :)
My question is why can't you buy an IBM Laptop with Linux on it? They had that huge promotion a while back.. with all the ads etc.. yet I havn't found a new IBM with Linux on it..
Shush! You should only ever use Canada.com's search-the-web option. ;-)
If user's are smart enough to save an attachment, mark it as executable and than click on it than their smart enough not to run as root.
Sure information wants to be free, but how much are you willing to pay for the packaging?
Actually I think you are full of crap. Your little article only spreads the same FUD that I always hear but you offer absolutely no technical explanation as to how this mythical linux virus problem is going to occur.
Got Code?
Ya'll should say "Did I git mah 'merican accent right?.
I don't understand why parent was modded up - the method of authentication is not relevant to the security model.
The underlying OS has to uniquely identify users - the username is just an alias for you (uids in *nix). The password is a challenge that you must answer and can be altered if discovered by a would-be identity thief.
Smart cards are the way to go. You program them to hold the userids and passwords and handles all the drudgery of entering a userid and password. However, it's still the same system underneath.
Biometrics combines userids and passwords into one, great for forensics, awful for authentication. As soon as the scanner can be fooled with false input (contact lens, fake fingerprint, etc), the entire system is useless until replaced/upgraded to read a new metric. Just look at all the success thieves have had with designing covers to put over bank machines to grab card numbers - now imagine not being able to ever change your account/pin number after it is stolen.
If you want a security model that doesn't require using su, you build your OS/apps around group permissions and check for gid=0 instead of checking for uid=0 (to use *nix terminology).
However...
It's worth noting that the only people that will be adversely affected by this are the average dumbed down user that didn't know any better than to practice good system administration and security skills on his own computer. Of course, some may argue that a decent OS shouldn't require a person to know anything about good administration -- that the OS should take care of that, and they may have a point... but computers aren't sentient yet, and until they are, there's a burden that some person is just going to have to bear. Sorry about that.
Meanwhile...
Businesses that run Linux will remain largely unaffected by the sweep of virii that target Linux, since they will have corporate interests in keeping their systems reliable and secure and will have someone available to ensure that their system remains so.
Bottom line, virii for Linux may become more prevalent than even windows virii, if Linux becomes popular enough, but the virii will cause personal data loss at most, and no severe economical impact that many windows have because many times there's nothing that anyone could have reasonably done in advance of the infection to have prevented it.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
NORMAN make antivirus software for Linux.
Really, it's such a simple idea:
If you use GPL code, you publish somewhere the modifications you make under the GPL.
THAT'S IT. END OF STORY. JOURNALISTS, YOU CAN GO HOME NOW.
Instead, we get heart-wrenching human interest CRAP like the following:
(From speeding acceptance of linux)
Linux evangelists have prophesied for years that the open-source operating system would challenge Microsoft Corp.'s Windows. But it wasn't until the past year or so, when International Business Machines Corp., Novell Inc. and Hewlett-Packard Co. seriously threw their collective and considerable weight behind it, that a challenge became a real possibility.
Victory, however, will not come cheaply.
The problem is that the future of Linux was never dependent on its quality. If quality were all that is required to win, everyone would be watching movies on Beta videotape and working on Apple Macintosh computers.
The problem is cultural.
The open-source community, an ad-hoc worldwide network of programmers dedicated to creating free software, has been too shrill, evangelistic and hot-eyed for corporate interests to deal with; the ferocity of their anger at proprietary software became the Linux community's own worst enemy -- nobody wants to gamble a corporate future on fanatics, no matter how worthy their bible.
Why do journalists slather this "human community" BS on top of this very simple idea?
It's like they're trying to freak people out! How completely idiotic is that???!!!
Now now, very few Canadians actually hate Americans. Many joke, but few hate.
:P
As an American living in Canada, I would agree that this is true. Of course it gets old being harassed about being American (fortunately I'm long past that stage now). Also, while few Canadians seem to outright hate Americans, I've run into enough of them that seem to think a large number of Americans are brainless idiots, as though Canada doesn't have its own share (and vice versa).
Frankly, I'm sick of the rivalry whether it be joking, real, or whatever. It goes both ways like anything else...
(\(\
(^v^)
(")")
This is the cute vorpal bunny virus, copy to your sig or runaway, runaway in fear!
Hmm. What for a Canadian needs 'Ö'?
fucktard is a tenderhearted description
Hmm. What for a Canadian needs 'Ö'?
:) The English alphabet.
Touché.
Why would you assume that KDE would do this? If they do I will personally remove it and submit a patch!
The fact is if this happens in open source you would likely so a fork and a major backlash.
Sure information wants to be free, but how much are you willing to pay for the packaging?
I am a Canadian who has been living in Missouri (get the name? :-)... I moved from Alberta... I think the provincial premier Ralph (who I think of as 'Ralffff, do I have a drinking problem?') Klein and the federal Alliance party's Alberta members make Bush look left wing. They want to privatize medicare, give Bush style tax cuts to the rich, and have already driven most folks on welfare into British Columbia.
-- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
I think it is great, as a Calgarian, that our city is adopting Linux. I hope this extends to the f***ing school board! It's like hell, having to use Win2K or OSX when both are hobbled by paranoid-schitzophrenic techs! I guess I need a reminder why I hate windows so much... About the viruses: don't run as root! Quite simple, really. Anyone who does daily work as root DESERVES to get a virus, in my opinion.
As an American living in Canada, I would agree that this is true. Of course it gets old being harassed about being American (fortunately I'm long past that stage now). Also, while few Canadians seem to outright hate Americans, I've run into enough of them that seem to think a large number of Americans are brainless idiots, as though Canada doesn't have its own share (and vice versa).
I live in Canada and work in the states. I'm in Mississippi right now. I FEEL YOUR PAIN. I'm pretty sick of even the nicest people, upon hearing where you're from, having to dump on you all the stupid and mostly untrue BS they've heard about your country, and what they think is wrong with it.
Frankly, I'm sick of the rivalry whether it be joking, real, or whatever.
Amen, brother. If you figure out how to make it stop, let me know.
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
From what I gather, Alberta has become business-oriented by slashing corporate and income tax rates (because the oil brings in basically enough money to run the province). Since Calgary has the second-highest number of company HQs in Canada (after Toronto), there are a fair number of tech people developing internally-used software and doing IT. Also, for reasons I'm unsure of, the University of Alberta has very strong Computer Science and Electrical Engineering Depts.
However, Alberta's per-capita spending on R&D is below all the other "have" provinces -- I'd guess because alcoholic politicians and oil tycoons don't care about science. Alberta also has very low venture capital activity (there's a reason the TSX Venture Exchange used to be in Vancouver). As a result, there are way less pure-software companies than Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal, and Ottawa.
"I live in Canada and work in the states. I'm in Mississippi right now. I FEEL YOUR PAIN. I'm pretty sick of even the nicest people, upon hearing where you're from, having to dump on you all the stupid and mostly untrue BS they've heard about your country, and what they think is wrong with it."
I'm a Frenchman living in England. How do you think *I* feel?
"The obvious mathematical breakthrough would be development of an easy way to factor large prime numbers." Bill Gates,
I'm a Frenchman living in England. How do you think *I* feel?
:-)
I was an Anglophone in Quebec... that trumps yours anyday!
So, when do we all start group therapy?
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
linux is aboot freedom, it is aboot choice, it's aboot...
excuse me, can you tell me what it is 'aboot' again?
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
"So, when do we all start group therapy?"
LOL.
I don't have any problem actually. Of course working with a mix of Spanish, Portuguese, Iraqui, Venezuelians and English (of course) helps smooth the differences.
"The obvious mathematical breakthrough would be development of an easy way to factor large prime numbers." Bill Gates,