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Corporate Work in the US vs. Canada?
No One You Know asks: "I've been working as a sysadmin for an insurance company in the US for the past six years, and have decided to move to Canada. I've had it with corporate America, but I'm trying to keep an open mind while job hunting. How does Canadian corporate life compare to that of the US?"
...you'd better like back bacon. That's all I should have to tell you.
Carousel is a lie!
...same as the old boss. Corporate life in Ireland, Germany, Holland, France and here in the US is the same, mostly. I've work at least one year in each of those countries, for local and American corporations. Varying degrees of formality and autonomy, but basically the same crap in different languages.
they have those guys with the red jacket on top of a horse..
That must change things a lot
Except for pea-soup-eating separatists, the annoying weather, the sports teams that never win, (go calgary), 90cents a Litre Gas, and 15% Sales Tax!
But we do have Beer!!
People don't speak so loudly. [ducks]
Drill baby drill - on Mars
... Tim Hortons
People are not nearly so uptight as in the US. Gor crying out loud, we had an office party here for Christmas and everyone got a drunk — those who didn't still sang and danced and had a good time. Contrast this with my experience with typical American office parties where they order some bland catered food, sip on mineral water and itch at their cotton-polyester blend polo shirts waiting to go home so they can work some more.
There's much more of an "open collar" atmosphere in Canada. Everyone trusts everyone else, we're all ready to get to know one another, and we certainly don't stay uptight after the regional manager has ended his visit to our office. Working in Canada is much less conducive to heart attacks.
BLING BLING. Meet the architecture that's changing everything.
I have no idea if this is actually a difference, but I definitely find that IT workers here (in Toronto) are not one bit concerned about outsourcing..
/.
Of course, I have no idea if the general IT population in the states are either, or if it's just especially strong here on
Many of the companies in Canada are just counterparts to American companies. Specifically I'm referring to MNCs (multi-national corps). However, the environment is a little more easy going unless they are a division of an American company at which point that can be more difficult to work for. I've worked in the past with Canadian divisions of an MNC and this was usually the case. Smaller companies are still the way to go. You might want to look into a Canada based insurance company since you have some experience in a similar environment.
GeneralKael -- Slacker Extraordinaire
Cananda is not the 51st state and moving there isn't like moving to North Dakota.
If you are unhappy with corporate life in the US, get out of corporate life, not the US. Insurance is one of those industries dominated very large companies. Lots of rules, regulations and PHB. Go find a (stable, profitable, non-high tech) company with 80 - 200 employees. It is a whole 'nother world working for a small to midsized company.
Do I sound bitter? Well... maybe I am, just a touch.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
This is not true. Canada and the US have an agreement that Canadians entering the US and Americans entering Canada are still subject to the draft of either country.
The ever-popular "dodge the draft by fleeing to Canada" no longer works.
Proudly supporting the Libertarian Party.
You will probably make less and are paid in Canadian dollars, so that 60K a year isn't as nice as it sounds. You will also pay higher taxes. But, you also gain free health care as well and have more public facilitties. Also, you can take pride in the fact that your tax dollars don't go to humiliating and tortuing Iraqi POW's.
Also, it's really, really, really cold in Canada. Hope you like Hockey! Keep in mind, your boss will still suck.
"If you are a dreamer, a wisher, a liar, A hope-er, a pray-er, a magic bean buyer
..Maple Walnut Dip
Check out Mon and Mon.cgi
Generally, variability within different U.S. companies (corporate culture and procedures) is greater than that between the U.S. and Canada (or the U.K., or Australia), so it depends on where you wind up.
Uh, I make a six figure income, and my tax rate is around 35%. Yes, every dollar I make over $110,000 is taxed at 50%, but the first $7000 I pay no tax, and the tax rate increases from there. Taxes aren't much worse than California.
First few weeks are difficult, but people have a lot of patience if you are seriously interested in learning thier language.
In a few years you will find that you have not only become bi-ligual, but bi-cultural, you will be able to switch between different ways of thinking, frankly it really broadens then mind.
Then, who knows, next stop Europe! If nothing else it is a great thing on your CV!
And if you thought that was boring you obviously havn't read my Journal ;-)
It works like this: you get paid less and taxed more.
In exchange it costs slightly less to live and hostpitals won't turn you away.
Fat geeks in Parkas look just as big as skinny geeks in Parkas.. Girls you meet will never know until you get them back to your igloo.
Time travel is possible. We are quickly heading for 1984.
Funny you would compare it to California, which is one of the highest (if not the highest) in the US ;)
I can't speak for everyone, but I get paid more than my counter parts in the USA (and I can compare directly, as I am in a services company with employees in the US too). My income taxes are about equal, although sales taxes are higher. Finally, our health care is no worse or better than that in the USA, and costs half as much per person to run.
Healthcare greatly varys from province to province. Its not national, its provinical.
God, root, what is the difference?
"Stay the hell away from my dam or I'll shoot!"
Slightly off topic, I suppose, but you know that the unemployment rate in Canada is currently higher (7.3% April 2004) than the US unemployment rate (5.6% April 2004), right?
And you're a Canadian citizen or have compelling reason to believe that you'll be offered a work visa (personal connections, obscure and valuable skills)?
* * *
It is a dada story -- it has no moral.
I never worry about my office building/city/town getting targeted by terrorists. That's not to say it won't ever happen, but when was the last time you heard anyone say, "Let's get those damn Canadians"?
I would say its much harder to get a job, but the people are pretty nice. I would say you'll deal with the most crap in Quebec. Its hard to set things up as the burecracy is huge.
If you've got a job, go for it! You'll pay more in taxes than the states, but you'll have a good quality of life.
So 9/11 was all the fault of the gun control lobby and the communists? Anybody else you'd like to blame while you're at it? How about the Jews?
Drill baby drill - on Mars
Canadian born and educated
moved to the US 10 years ago after finishing my PhD
worked in the US and Canada as a developer/intern, and in the US as a professor and executive
Bias: as a child, I was always an American-wanna-be My opinion: Canada and the US are very similar: It is wisely said that Canadians are polite, unarmed Americans, with health care. However, there are interesting differences:
- Canadians are more "conservative", in the small-c sense of danger-aversion. Canadians by and large will accept an average lower standard of living in exchange for a lower risk of catastrophe. This shows up in substantially lower wages for technical staff, but with a substantially higher standard of living for those supported by the social safety net.
- There is much less entreprenure-ship in Canada. Go to Canada if you like large companies, because there are a lot fewer start-ups.
- Republican bullshit not withstanding, the Canadian single-payer health care system works better than anything I have ever seen in the US.
- Canadians are generally more reasonable and less excitable than Americans. Conversely, Canadians are a lot less exciting than Americans. A Canadian radio station once ran a contest to pick a saying analogous to "As American as apple pie." The winner was "As Canadian as possible, under the circumstances."
A lot of Canadians have a very poor opinion of the quality of life in the US. I submit that this is because a substantial plurality of Canadians actually live in Southern Ontario, between Buffalo and Detroit. If all you ever heard of the US was that North Tonowanda was burning again, what would you think?Crispin
----
Crispin Cowan, Ph.D.
CTO, Immunix Inc.
"Hope you don't like guns, because Canada is rabbidly anti-gun."
Um...actually, this is very much a nation of hunters. There are LOTS of guns up here. I think the statistic is that there are around 10,000,000 households, and 7,000,000 guns.
Robert B. Marks
Author, Demonsbane in Diablo Archive
Myth. That is simply not true. Canada's health care system is no worse, but also no better than that of the USA.
It depends largely on where you end up. The west coast has a reputation for being laid back. Toronto is the hub and seems quite a bit more formal. I am always shocked by how over dressed IT people from Toronto seem. Here in Vancouver I work for a financial institution and almost everyone dresses casually. I imagine that that Quebec and the Maritimes also have quite casual corporate environments, especially when compared to the US.
I think you will find Canadians more reserved in corporate life or outside of it.
It's true. The last guy I saw brandishing a gun got stabbed. Fortunately, we were able to keep the bleeding in check with hockey tape and Tim Horton's muffins. Then it was just a matter of keeping him calm (medicinal marijuana) until his free medical care arrived via dogsled.
As a job hunting System Admin. in Toronto, I can tell you the job market is pretty crappy. Unless you already have a job lined up, don't hold your breath for a sysadmin position.
You should also note that jobs in Canada are much more political than jobs in the U.S. Office politics plays a bigger role, and you better be good at the game to get anywhere.
In Canada, they don't really use computers. They only have one industry, well two if you want to seperate them, but those are creating snow and creating cold. You see, they just sit up there in their cold factories creating snow all day and then they turn on their giant fans and blow it into places like Wisconsin, etc. They take great pride in this however, because without them people like me might actually be able to walk around more than 4 months out of the year without being wrapped in 5 shirts, a coat, an under-coat, 3 hats, gloves with mittins over them, 5 pairs of socks, furry boots and 15 scarfs wrapped around my entire body. Hey Canada, thanks a lot!
"If you are a dreamer, a wisher, a liar, A hope-er, a pray-er, a magic bean buyer
...we could've used your vote.
LilMikey.com... I'll stop doing it when you sto
I can understand your (mostly WRONG) attitudes towards Canada, since you were actually raised in a different country.
;-)
That's the point though - Canada is a different country than the US - Canada is not USA-Lite. I don't mind the things you're railing against, since I've decided to accept them as the price of having my country the way it is - which is the country I love. If the poster is willing to accept that things will be different here, he'll come to love his new country, too.
BTW, try some of the establishments on St. Catherine street in Vieux Montréal - the ladies there will change your mind about Quebecers being unfriendly.
Soko
"Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm." - Anonymous
Hi my name is Noah I'm calling to promote my computer services company IT Goes Click, does your company use computers in you day to day operations?
Well you're expected to be a lot more polite about everything that's not just a myth and if you're not polite expect to have a polite awakening to your assishness
Corporations and employees are immeasurably more loyal to one another up here than down there
There's lots of great holidays and excuses not to work.
You don't need a benefits plan at work to have great medical coverage
Your co-workers are now your friends not your competition and your job is now your job not self promotion disguised as a job.
Incompetence and mistakes are rewarded with a kick in the butt not a promotion
Everything is far less Political Correct except when dealing with the French or Natives.
And remember when any product or service is in review it's not new is better it's
1. If it's new it's bad
2. If it's old it's probably also bad
3. If it's foreign it's bad
4. If it's American it's foreign
5. If it's cheap it's probably foreign and or new
6. If it's expensive it's probably American or German see #4
7. If it claims to work it'd better do it, unless it was cheap
8. It'd better have French labels on it
9. If it doesn't work or doesn't have French labels on it, use it to make a donation to an American charity.
.. but there is no canadian corporate structure, it's all american companies anyways and aside from being a little more lenient towards watching the playoffs instead of working I've noticed nothing different.
Corporations are an entity unto themselves, I don't think country plays a part.
This P.I.G. will walk on the water, This P.I.G. will walk on the sea, This P.I.G. will walk whereever he wants.
No selective service and no draft in Canada. There was conscription at the end of World War 2 (you know, the one that started in 1939), but it divided the country.
---
Book(n): Utensil used to pass time while waiting for the TV repairman
As a Canadian who's currently working in another country (Japan), I'll tell you that's it's not the only corporate culture you should be considering when you think about the move. Sure, in Canada (depending on where you live!) you won't have much of a language problem (Eh!) as you would moving to another country. BUT:
... harder to get rich because the goverment will pull a Robin Hood on you).
1. Keep in mind that taxes in Canada are WAY higher than in the U.S.
2. Canadians in general are poorer than their American counterparts, meaning less money to spend on luxury items like nice cars, etc. (largely related to the tax thing
3. Corporate culture will vary a LOT depending on the company. I worked for 5 different companies while I was still living back home, and let me tell you they varied A LOT, from very relaxed places to very high pressure atmospheres.
4. You will be a foreigner in our land. You'll have to get a visa and do all that immigration crap.
But hey, I really like Canada, and when I visit my home country versus visiting the States, I really notice the difference in the culture between the two countries. Canadians are definetly friendlier and more relaxed than Americans (except for New England, what a friendly place!), and I think that's much easier to tell after you spend a few years away. Great country, and I definetly will move back there someday.
Bullshit.
... but it sounds as though you've been buying the propaganda about the Canadian healthcare system.
... and that was a walk-in without an appointment.
I don't know if you're American, Canadian, or from some little island in the Pacific
Yes, it's been in better shape. But it's not as bad as some people (mostly those in the US who are trying to justify their system over ours) makes it out to be.
First: everyone is guaranteed basic health care. Regardless of whether the company you work for has a health plan or not. Compare and contrast to your healthcare system.
Second: The wait times are usually not as long as people make them out to be. My father recently decided to undergo surgery to alleviate some trouble he's been having lately. How long did he wait between making the decision and having the surgery? 2 weeks. Is my family going to be out $25,000? Nope. Covered.
Popped into the doctor's office the other day - total wait time for me, 20 mins
And I've never heard of Canadians being described as "rabbidly anti-gun" (there are more than a few around here that would take exception to that). We just don't see the need for assault rifles to protect our homes. It's actually a positive thing here.
Bullshit. Health care in Canada is as good as it is in the US, except more people (as a percentage of the population) have access to it. If you want to bitch about Canadian taxes (which are higher than in the US, certainly) go for it, but don't repeat stupid propaganda.
The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
I work for a software company that has it's corporate headquarter in Montreal and I find working with my Canadian colleaqes to be quite frustrating. Many of the people I work with never even try to figure out a problem themselves before calling and whining. I know this is not indicative of the whole country but I wouldn't doubt if it was of Quebec. And yes even the French can't stand the Canadian francophones.
No Brains, No Headaches
If you're looking for an interesting way to see what cubicles are like in other countries, by all means this is for you. Otherwise, like he said, it's all the same.
--
the strongest word is still the word "free"
Several years ago I got a job offer from a Canadian software company without any interview. I decided to take a look at their office before accepting their offer.
There were a ton of Dilbert cartoons posted on almost every cubicle wall. The big boss in charge of engineering was a big sexy woman in a rather flashy red dress. I was pretty sure she was not trying to charm the lowly engineers. All engineers I talked to were very timid. It was during the peak of high tech boom, all American engineers I met at that time were beaming with undeserved confidence. But those Canadian engineers didn't have any spirit whatsoever. Enough to say I lost any interest moving up there since then.
If you really think capitalism was born in the US, you might want to familiarize yourself with this fascinating resource called a "history book."
Moron.
The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
Canadians have about .25 guns/person, the US has about .89 guns/person.
As a Canadian who looked at relocating to California (but didn't, though I flew back and forth for 4 months), I did a fair bit of research into the US/Canada thing.
.com boom) - people are pretty similar, and so are the jobs.
Myth #1 - Taxes are really high.
Reality: not really. You don't pay 50% until you make over $100,000. The average annual tax burden is somewhere around 30-35%. There are provincial and federal sales taxes, however, and you can't write off your mortgage interest. You can, however, put money into a retirement savings plan, and that investment is tax free, and the growth on that investment is also tax free. You pay tax when you withdraw. Also, there are no inheritance taxes in Canada, unlike the US.
Myth #2 - You have to make $80,000 CDN to have the same lifestyle you had on $60,000 US. Depends on where you come from. A friend who worked in California found that if you made $60,000 CDN, you needed to make $60,000 US to have the same lifestyle - the exact opposite. Cars are more expensive in the US, rent is more expenive in parts of the US, etc. And this is compared to Vancouver, one of the most expensive parts of Canada.
Myth #3 - the unemployment rate is higher in Canada
Reality: it's computed differently in Canada vs the US. If people stop looking for jobs in the US (ie they can't find them), then they aren't considered unemployed, whereas they are still counted as unemployed (or perhaps unemployable) in Canada.
Myth #4 - It's tough to get into Canada
Reality: if your young, healthy and wealthy (or well educated), you've got a pretty good shot. We have two Europeans working in our office, and both just became citizens.
Other things to note: health care is essentially free. At worst, you'll pay $100 a month for basic care. Most employers then add extended health and dental. You go to the doctor or dentist you want. None of that HMO crud you see in the US. But because healthcare is public, you have no option of spending more to get better service (ie to use private services). In the US, the more money you are willing to pay, the better the service you will get. But you have to pay the money up front. Families aren't forced into bancrupcy because an uninsured family member comes down with cancer.
If your wife/girfriend gets pregnant, and she was working and paying taxes and employement-insurance-deductions (most everyone does, unless you are self employeed), she can take a year off with partial pay. Alot different than 6 weeks of no pay that you find in the US.
In most parts of Canada, you can find true wilderness an hour or less from where you live.
Expect to see hockey as the national pastime (the national sport is lacrosse, and it's actually pretty popular); forget baseball or basketball unless you live in Toronto. And Vancouver has the 2010 Winter Olympics.
Things aren't as hyper-competitive as they are in the US, and as a result you'll find it a bit less exciting, but a bit more polite; people hold doors, wait their turn, and say "Thank you" (a Canadian TV show did a skit about a Canadian version of Fear Factor, and one of the things a Canadian had to do was to say "No" to a waiter/waitress when asked if their meal is ok - couldn't do it).
On the job front, things seem to be improving quite a bit. Canadians tend to work less than Americans. You are more likely to end up in a union (yuk) but sysadmins are usually only in a union if they work for the government. Someone said that Canadians take their jobs way too seriously. I've found it was exactly the opposite. Overall, I didn't see much difference (and I worked in San Francisco during the
Finally, the beer. The wonderful beer. I've has some great American beer (Pyramid, Fat Tire, ESB) but in general I like Canadian better (Big Rock, Okanagen Springs, Grandville Island, etc).
How to you tell whether the grass really is greener under that 27" of snow?
Granted, American suburban sprawl sucks, but is making the leap of becoming a member of another nation truly worth it? For example, an important question would be: does Canada value freedom and speech in all the same ways as the USA does? I really don't know (not being Canadian), but I do know that the USA is better than Slashdot doomsayers claim it to be.
Perhaps you simply need a career change? No one is forced into 1-hour commutes to a job they hate. How about moving rural, get a low-paying job, and lay back and enjoy life for a while? Buy a cheap john boat and go fishing for a change.
Are you sure it isn't your own idealism that you are chasing and never catching? Do you understand that naive idealism begets misery--in any country in the world?
Vote in November. You won't regret it.
Seriously, if you want to move to Canada just because you do not like corporate America, you gotta be bored out of your fucking mind. I do not know how you feel, but I can imagine because I have had the same thoughts; however, I do not plan on moving anywhere.
There are plenty of companies in the United States that offer excellent benefits and laid back environment. Believe it or not, you can find businesses that offer 100% health and decent dental coverages. You have to know where to look; hint, metrapolitan areas might not be your answer. Look at somewhat rural areas. You might not get a job that pays six figures, but you can score a decent position that does not require a monkey suit and being on call 24x7. Also, you'll get to enjoy less trafic, cheaper housing, more land and maybe you'll learn how to appreciate outdoors. Have you looked at the map of the U.S. lately? Our country is pretty damn large and lifestyle varies from place to place. I hear that some of D.C.'s neighborhoods look like third-world countries; on the other hand, I really enjoyed living in laid-back-not-giving-a-fuck rural area of New England. The choice is up to you.
Canada is better than the United States only if you are piss poor and/or need medical attention everyday (that is, if you cannot afford it). In the United States healthcare is still affordable; dental insurance plance can be better, but we also do get what we pay for. If you do not like something, go ahead and sue :)
Finally, if you think that your Canadian boss is going to be nice(er) to you, you're totally wrong. Businesses are here for making profits and no matter what the owner of the company wants to get the money. If your manager has to ride your ass in order to make you efficient, you won't find a place in any country of the world.
P.S.: Oh, yeah Candians are more polite. Last time I was in Montreal, several girls asked me if I wanted to get laid eventhough I was with my girlfriend.
I came to Canada 15 years ago (from the UK) as a computer consultant, loved it, and stayed here in Toronto ever since, except for a few months working in the Boston area of the US. And for what it's worth, I'm married to an American ex-attorney :-)
:-) and someone from San Francisco might miss the hills. A visitor from the South gaped in awe at the mixed-race couples everywhere here in Toronto.
:-) and today it's over 80 degrees with a dry warm breeze. It depends where you live; Toronto is pretty far south, further than most people realise, and we get weather not that much different from new York City. But you could live within the Arctic Circle if you really wanted to :-)
An unpleasant job is unpleasant anywhere. I can't comment on the insurance industry, I don't know about it.
When you're comparing countries, remember that Canada is geographically larger than the US, and has a lot of variation, as of course does the US. A factory worker assembling cars in suburban Detroit might be amazed that the houses in Ontario are not all the same shape
The highest tax rate is indeed 51% but get an accountant: you'll find there are more deductibles that reduce your taxes here, and a rate of around 30% is more common, assuming you are earning more than Cad$60,000/year.
Yes, you'll quite likely be paid less here. But the cost of living is lower. Make sure you get at least the same dollar amount and it shouldn't be too bad.
The healthcare is in fact better than someone commented: my partner has had a lot of health problems, and for some things Canada is much better than the US, for some it's not. In some cases, the Canadian health programme will send you to the US for treatment and cover the cost too, although it's rare. You are much less likely to have doctors trying to sell you on expensive drugs or treatments here, and more likely to find doctors who want to help you.
In much of Canada, at least in the more rural parts, there's much better public transport than you might be used to, depending on which part of the US you're from. It's a symptom of a greater emphasis on community, on the need for everyone to live together and get along, and to respect each other's differences, celebrating diversity. This comes at a cost of a lower emphasis on the individual, especially on the rights of the individual where they might adversely affect the community. Hate speech, for example, is a crime.
It took my husband (yes, we are a gay couple, and yes, we have same-sex marriage here) about 18 months before he stopped saying "Canada is so far behind the US" and started to realise that in fact we're going in a different direction. After a few more years he came to appreciate that direction, and decided to immigrate. I've heard similar stories from others: it can take two or three years to get used to a different way of thinking and to stop judging what you see based on experiences gained in another country.
Canada is far from perfect, but we don't have George Bush, and many of the Americans who move here are dissatisfied with the US in some way, and often relatively left-wing. But you should come and see for yourself.
The Immigration Canada Web site is useful - http://www.cic.gc.ca/ - and will help you get a visa. You can get a NAFTA work permit I think, but you'll need a certified job offer to do that. if you decide to immigrate and then find a job, there's about a year's waiting list and a non-refundable fee.
You could also start reading online papers such as the Glbe and Mail, and depending on where you are planning to go, daily papers like the Globe and Mail.
Oh, and on climate - yes, it gets as cold as Minnisota in the winter at times
I hope this helps.
Oh, one more thing (I know this is already long).. I travel a lot... and always notice when I come home how different the people are in the service industry here. Go and get a meal at a food court in Det
Live barefoot!
free engravings/woodcuts
The health care is NOT state-provided. Health care is provided by doctors opening practices or groups of doctors running a clinic. Same as the states and elsewhere. The difference is that the government pays the doctor, the user doesn't pay.
;^)
For most people, the government doesn't pay for most drugs, semi-private hospital rooms, physiotherapy, etc. This is where the employer usually contributes. Most companies operating in Canada offer some sort of enhanced health plan to their employees that covers such extras.
Yeah, we pay more taxes in Canada. And our schools are better, there's less crime, and our inner cities don't look like third-world conflict zones. Go figure.
As most posters have confirmed, the Canadian office environment is pretty much identical to the US... maybe a bit less hyperactive.
This is maybe the downside - the Canadian customer is less reactive to high-pressure sales. We're maddeningly slow to cut a deal, and often passive-aggressive when subjected to a high-pressure sales pitch. This drives US salespeople crazy.
From the CIA World Factbook
Everybody's a libertarian 'till their neighbour's becomes a crack house.
Or do you already have a job offer that will get you a visa? Canada, like the US, is NOT open access. Forigeners have to get permission to work there, even Americans. So before you cast in with both feet, make sure that you are actually going to be able to get work there. I'm not saying it's majorly difficult, but don't take it for granted. It IS a foriegn country.
You just have to beware of "ootsourcing."
taken! (by Davidleeroth) Thanks Bingo Foo!
The software systems that most of the large insurance companies use are crap. I won't mention the companies by name, so its possible that its not one that you worked for. But my friend had to navigate through five different programs to find the correct benifits for a customer and that ws the best place that he worked at. Its really shocking how some corperations will put up with truly crappy software. The productivity gains that could be made would far out way the cost.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
It's aboot the same up there, but it's pretty cold, eh?
East of Ontario, people are extremely sociable and close. Southern Ontario is exactly like the Eastern US(not much more to say there), and West of Ontario, are there people there?(kidding)
For the places that I've lived in the West, it's hate or love, if it's not one or the other then you really don't exist in their eyes except if you cross the street, cars will stop alarmingly even if they're not even close to you.
But hey, honestly what you see in a place is what you make of it. Cool people will find cool people and the challenged will find the a*holes.
One thing that is pretty nice about everywhere is that the new generations have almost no bias towards different people, they've learned to dislike people for their individual qualities and not as a group... that's cool in my book.
bla
Silly, they're not part of the US; they're only our hat.
taken! (by Davidleeroth) Thanks Bingo Foo!
Whenever I mention to Canadians that I bring people to Canada as a tax haven, they shake their heads in disbelief. After all, Canada has a well deserved reputation for having some of the highest marginal tax rates amongst the OECD countries. What most Canadians do not realize is that Canada has a well established regime of tax sheltering to attract new residents that it does not offer to its indigenous population. With proper pre-immigration tax planning, wealthy individuals can move to Canada and avoid income and capital gain tax on their non-Canadian source income and capital gain producing assets. In addition, since Canada. Does not have an estate tax, it is often considered as a favorable domicile of choice. Furthermore, while Canada does not have an instant citizenship program it does allow those who have been permanent residents for three years to acquire a Canadian passport. Being one of the most treasured travel documents in the world, the Canadian passport provides visa-free travel to most countries and allows the holder to take advantage of the North American Free Trade Agreement to live and work in the United States. Finally, as a result of the recent decline in the Canadian dollar, residents can enjoy an excellent lifestyle with all of the infrastructure of living in the United States at almost two thirds of the cost. In looking at Canada as a possible destination, there are two main considerations; qualifying for permanent residence and tax planning. I will look at each in turn. ABILITY TO QUALIFY FOR PERMANENT RESIDENCE There are several paths leading to Permanent Residence in Canada. Aside from the comments that follow relating to Entrepreneur Category applicants, the rights, privileges, and obligations of the status received are the same, no matter which category the application is made under. However, the out-of-pocket expense, level of financial disclosure, and speed of application processing varies greatly amongst the categories. Family Sponsorship Category Certain Canadian citizens and Permanent Residents are entitled to "sponsor" certain foreign relatives for Permanent Residence in Canada. Relatives that can be sponsored under the Family category include: fiancées/spouses, parents, grandparents, all unmarried children up to the age of 19, certain unmarried children over the age of 19, and grandchildren (note that grandchildren can only be sponsored if they are orphaned and the grandparents have custody of the children in question). To qualify as a sponsor it is necessary to be over the age of 18, to be resident in Canada, and to have proof of income sufficient to look after all of those being sponsored. Independent/Assisted Relative Category Individuals who fall into this category base their applications on personal skills and ability to contribute to the Canadian economy. Applications are made according to a point system. The system is designed so that a twenty-eight year old applicant with five years experience in computer software design and with employment already arranged would be assigned more points than a fifty-five year old factory laborer with no employment arranged. If the applicant has a close relative who is a Permanent Resident of Canada or a Canadian Citizen he would be considered an Assisted Relative and would receive bonus points. The Assisted Relative category includes brothers/sisters, uncles/aunts, and nephews/nieces. Self-Employed Category Self-Employed applicants are those who have the ability to establish or purchase a business in Canada that will create employment for themselves and will make a significant contribution to the economic, cultural or artistic life of Canada. There are two types of Self-Employed applicants. First are those who, on the basis of their managerial skills, proven business experience, and financial status, intend to provide employment opportunities for themselves. The second type of Self-Employed applicants are those persons who are likely to be successful in Canada in a particular cultural field as artists, singers, writers, musicians, a
I am a Canadian that after working a few years in Canada (Edmonton), I headed south. I liked what I was doing better in Canada, but the pay was bad. I think the market for programmers in Edmonton is flooded because there is a terrific (and large) university there but the industry in the town is mainly blue-collar.
More than half of what you make will got to taxes, but your benefits will cost significantly less, especially if you have dependents as health care is a public service. Also, as long as you stay out of Toronto and Vancouver, the cost of living is quite low. I rented a small two b/r appartment in downtown edmonton for $500 CAD (about $330 USD at the time) -- utilities included. That would be worth at least $600 USD in Rochester, MN.
Keep in mind that Canada is also regionally divided. Working in Toronto is a lot different from working in Edmonton, which is a lot different from working in Calgary. Choose the atmosphere you want to work in and select the appropriate city.
Edmonton: Laid back, mainly blue collar town, city driving is easy, cold and dry winters, cheap housing, low salary.
Calgary: not sure about atmosphere, mainly white collar town, driving not too bad but you will have to take public transportation if you work downtown, odd winter weather with snowstorms often followed by hot dry "chinook" winds, little more spendy on housing, decent salary
Vancouver: People don't go there for the money, they go for the lifestyle. Considered one of the top cities to live in in the world. Expensive housing, low salary, mild winters, good night life
Toronto: Stuck up coroporate culture, unions rule, evenin the white collar world. Expensive housing, frequent traffic jams, hot smoggy summers, great night life, streets are alive at all times.
Saskatoon: Conservative population, not sure about corporate culture, long cold dry winters, safe city, very low cost of living, not sure about salaries, considered a boring city, good place to raise children.
That's all the cities I can really speak about.
All in all, if you have children, I encourage you to move to Canada, there are good schools, it's quite safe, and the public services make raising a family a lot easier.
I'll be in the USA for a few more years, but I plan to head back eventually too. I am quite anxious about the $500B deficit that the US has because Canada used to have the problem and it took a lot of sacrfice to balance the budget and pay off that debt.
God save the queen,
- Thomas;
___ This sig is in boldface to emphasize its importance!
Try going into the 'small business' America. Its MUCH different then the big coproprates.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
They wouldn't have to buy 50 case fans when all they would need to do is stick their computers outside...
Yeah liquor, off company premesis (where someone else is responsible if you get hurt) is usually allowed for extra special parties at most larger companies in the US.
.com days where I kept 2 bottles of gin and a bottle of mezcal in my file cabinet for the weekly company meetings. (never did like the beer/wine they provided)
I do miss the
It probably depends mostly on the size of your company, it's legal/financial department and it's management.
You might ask Michael Moore, the guy who is religous about "America", you know, the one who exposed the large corporations that were shipping jobs out of the United States to foreign countries?
Our local news station recently did a piece on him -- apparently he has hired out the work to create and support his web site to a small firm in Canada. So, he should know about the advantages of taking jobs to a different country...
Elsewhere someone posted that the figure was 7 million guns for 10 million households in Canada. According to this, there are as many guns in the US as *adults* (presumably there is more than one adult in most households). Even if the Canadian number should be 14 million guns (as suggested here), this is still less than the number of adults (22 million according to this).
I would cite parallel statistics but didn't find them in my brief Google.If your going to live there you need to speak the language. I'll rephrase from your post.. "I've been working as a sysadmin for an insurance company in the US for the past six years, and have decided to move to Canada, eh"
Canadian health care quality comparable to other rich countries
I'm not normally an irrational zealous dickhead, but I figure "When in Rome..."
i'd move up to canada just for the mountain biking!!!!!! we have some great places here in the US but you have to travel 1500 miles to get to them.
nature loves variety::society hates it get your variety at http://www.monkeypantz.net
Allow me to clear things about taxes:
Federal Tax: 7%, on *everything*.
Provincial Taxes: 7.5% in Quebec, 8% in Ontario. Maybe also in other provinces, I don't know. And this 7.5-8% tax is only on "commodities", stuff not really necessary to stay alive.
Harmonized tax: some maritime (eastern, like New Brunswick) provinces have an "harmonized" tax of 15% on *everything*. But maybe not on food, someone could explain more about it.
Books are taxed only 7%, same for food. Magazines and CDs get the prov. tax, though. But, as I work in publishing, I love the idea that books are free from provincial tax.
All Hail Discordia. Hail Eris. Fnord.
Those are here in Oregon. Anyone can get a concealed-carry license!
Corporations will be the same. I work in Dilbertesque Telecom in Canada. Lots of execs lining their pockets, accounting scandals and office politics. Work will be the same if you work for the same type of organization. The only corporate difference, is you can expect less money in your pocket when all is said and done. On to those differences.
Money:
I definitely make less than my counter parts in the USA. Here is a fictional breakdown that is somewhat representative of buddies (many) who left for the USA.
Location Me(Canada) Buddy (USA)
Gross pay 60K CDN 75K US
After Tax 40K CDN 56K US
Xbox price $200+15% 149+4%
Total XBs: 174 361
There you go. At the end of the day after tax you get paid more than double the amount of Xboxes to work in the USA.
Now onto some other differences:
Health care:
It has drastically declined in Canada. Anyone I know who has left in recent years feels they are much better served in the USA. You will wait 6months to get an MRI here. If you work for a company with decent benefits your care will be better in the USA.
Guns:
On a per capita basis, I remember hearing ownership is similar, but here it is more hunting rifles and less handguns. There is much less gun violence here, but it is constantly increasing espcially in Toronto.
Religion and Politics:
Unlike in the USA they hardly mix. Religion is much more low key in Canada. It is is a more socialist and secular society. Our most right wing political party is probably to the left of the Democrats in the USA.
That is my observation as a Canadian in hi-tech. Come here if you want a change to a more liberal and secular society. But you will have less money and your job will suck just as much.
This may or may not be useful for you, but I worked for ~three years for a mid-sized Canadian corporation with offices located in the US.
The honeymoon: After getting dot-bombed twice, I was brought in for an interview via a personal referral, and it seemed like a good fit. I told them I was a little jittery about the technology economy, and to describe how they were doing. The response was something along the lines of "We've been making a small but dependable profit every year for the past thirty-plus years." I started work the next week. While primarily Canadian-run, the inclusion of British and Australians in the management mix gave a bit more of a truly international feel to the organization. The place was eerily quiet and very businesslike, which was a welcome change from the Brownian-motion style US/.com management of the previous few years.
The serious relationship: They kept me busy on a number of good technology projects, but the risk-averse environment began to grate on me. The Canadian management was interested in the *idea* of new clients, but was so entrenched in the repeat-business-by-reputation model that they consistently failed to track new opportunities. Even really good and profitable ventures with low risk that landed in their laps tended to be neglected. For example, I spent quite a bit of effort on a business plan for expansion of an existing line of work, only to have it neglected rather than rejected outright. Still, there were interesting work opportunities, and we plodded along with them. I resisted slowing my personal pace of business and technical exploration, but eventually reached something of a tolerable balance.
The divorce: The US operation began to lose money, and a new manager was brought in to build business. Instead, the uber-conservative atmosphere stymied new ventures at a higher level than had affected me directly. Low/med risk down here in the US was perceived as high-risk north of the border. The new manager (a low-wattage guy who was long on vision and short on follow-thru) then just resorted to layoffs. Now, a decent US-ian approach might have been to face up to the numbers, lay off a bunch of people with a semi-reasonable severance, and be done with it. Instead, in the Canadian corporate atmosphere I knew, having to do a layoff was a point of shame (which it should be, since any layoff is a tacit admission of management failure). But instead of getting it over with, they drew it out, firing an average of 1% a week for a year, on a seemingly random basis. The last straw for me was an ill-timed complaint that I made about not receiving my allotted training budget for the past two years. I was shooed out the door, only to be brought back as a consultant within a week. I finished my work shortly thereafter, and bowed out as gracefully as I could.
Would I work for a Canadian company again? Maybe, but probably not. These few years seemed to combine all the worst features of risk-verse Canadians, tall-poppy-averse Australians, form-over-substance-obsessed British, and blinded-by-your-own-BS-management Americans. But it was tolerable, we made a little money, and the company is still in business and probably will be for some time to come. Based on my experience, I would say a medium-sized Canadian corporation might be nice place to park yourself if you want a quiet, staid environment for a few years. But be careful that you don't take root and slow down to a point that you can't re-enter the US or other fast-paced market in the future.
Jon
I think not...(*poof*)
If you want to compare it that way then you can do the same against other countries eg:
... bla, bla, bla.
The british pound is worth more than the US dollar so getting a wage in pounds is worth so much more
If the end WHO CARES? There are only two times most people care about the exchange rate:
1. When you buy something from another country.
2. When you go overseas.
You could also talk about how the Japanese get paid alot more than most people but that doesn't take into considertion the cost of living and lifestyle. Don't understand?
Mac Hall explains this one quite well:
Servay Says
Basically if you get paid less but can buy more and have a better lifestyle then who cares?
As an American* working in Canada, I'll tell you that in my experience yes, it is more open and relaxed than in the US. That is until your company becomes noticed as an aquisition target because it's so successful and a US company sucks it up to help keep them alive. Having been through the experience, the contrast in company cultures was tremendous and the resulting atmosphere in the company continues to be depressing and as filled with corporate politics and frustrations as one could imagine.
My advice: if you find a good job in Canada with the atmosphere you seek, enjoy it while it lasts. I did. And since then I've moved on to a smaller Canadian company where I enjoy the relaxed culture still, sadly I just don't get paid as well for it.
As an aside, for an excellent resource on Canadian culture in general compared to the US, see Emily Way's An American's Guide to Canada. There is much useful info there.
*Disclaimer: For those who are anal about such things, yes, I generally refer to myself as an American, prefectly aware that there are many other countries upon the American continent. But having lived in three other countries apart from the US, I have found that by refering to yourself as a US citizen, estadounidense, or whatever else often tends to confuse people. Really, it does. Once they realize what you're saying, they invariably reply "oh, you're American". So after years of trying to buck the trend, I've given in to the pressure from residents of other countries, including Canada and Mexico, the two countries with the most right to be offended by such a moniker, and call myself an American.
No person in the US is without availability to healthcare. Emergency rooms treat all who come. The US still has the finest hospitals in world and will remain so until someone manages to foist governmnet health care upon everyone.
On the other hand, no one in Canada is serously in debt due to paying medical bills.
As with everything, in healthcare you get what you pay for. Sure the system in Canada is in many ways inferior to the US, but it is absolutly free, or at least paid for by tax dollars. If you want to rely on the free medicare system in the US, your wait will be much longer and service much poorer than Canadians get.
Good healthcare is a right, not a priveledge of the rich, and the Canadian system provides good heath care to all people, and not just the ones who can afford it.
"Entropy is the bad-guy, and he is everywhere"
Of course healthcare is not free, but at least, the cost is shared among *all* canadians. This way, *any* canadian have access to the same service, not only the most fortunates citizens. My aunt lives in colorado, and had to mortgage her house to cure a quite nasty disease her son got, because the family healtcare insurance she had had no more money to pay ( I don't quite remember the details, but I think that it was the kind of insurance that stopped paying when there have been too much claims. My cousin should have been sick a couple of weeks earlier. ). You will never see that in canada ( You will see huuuuge waiting lists for certain types of surgeries though because the system is overloaded, but well... )
perception is reality
A google image search is much more informative.
I haven't really seen these issues addressed yet.
Canadians are much left of Americans politically. Polls consistently show that only 10% of Canadians would vote Republican. This is reflected in their views on many social and political issues. If you are republican you should move to Alberta which is the most 'American' of the Canadian provinces. I've heard that this is true in all Western countries: most of the population would vote Democrat if they could. (This probably pleases the Democrats, but doesn't bother the Republicans at all.)
Canadians are less religious than Americans. Well, they are still religious but in a quieter and political way. Religion is a much less politically and geographically focussed in Canada. For example, being strongly religious in the US makes you vastly more likely to vote Republic and to live in certain parts of the country. This is not true in Canada. (BTW, I think that Canada is more Catholic and the US is more protestant).
The media is also much different. I compared the Canadian, American, and British media during the recent war in Iraq (and much of its aftermath). The American coverage was totally different than that in the other two countries.
Here's an example of two of these that caught my attention recently. I heard that Fox news is having a spat with the Globe and Mail. Fox is accusing the G&M of being too left wing. What's bizarre about this is that the G&M has been the voice of the business community in Canada for as long as I can remember. No one in Canada would ever accuse it of being to left wing.
Actually the Canadian dollar has jumped due to a weak US dollar. The exchange rate is 1.35 now, rather than 1.65.
:)
Second, my heating bill is cheap. I live in Vancouver, and it snows maybe once a year. The farther north you go, the better insulated the houses are.
Third, your tax calculates are way off.
$8000 CDN (or about $5200 US) is tax free. From there to $35,000, you pay 16%. From 35K to 70K, you pay 22%. From 70K to 113K, you pay 26%. Over 113K, you pay 29%. Then you add provincial taxes onto that. Now, look at this page and compare tax rates between 2003 and 2004. Notice they are going down? Do a Google on Canadian budget surpluses.
Fourth, Canada is not a socialist country. We are a capitalist country with a more comprehensive social net.
Finally, yes, MRIs are difficult to get in Canada. But that's pretty recent, with budget cuts to health care; ten years ago, the systems were pretty comparible. Canada is paying off a big national debt, and it costs $30 billion to service it a year. Once that's paid off, healthcare spending will rebound. It's also nice to know that while I'm not getting and MRI on demand, no one else is either
And as someone pointed, out, we can alwasy cross the border to the US and get one for $600 US ($800 CDN).
Peameal or backbacon...I think it is geographically dependent (the term "peameal" seems to be mostly used in Ontario and points east--out here in the west you'd likely get the response "what the heck is peameal?")
One thing to note is that like Chinese food served in North America, "Canadian Bacon" as served in the US is a pale and inaccurate imitation of the real thing--it is NOT seasoned nor cured the way it actually is in Canada. It's like calling corned beef Montreal Smoked Meat (they're different and it's always disappointing when the former is pawned off as the latter).
If you like the real thing but can't find it in the US, try ordering it from this site.
Anyways, to keep this post on-topic, I'd say that "corporate Canada" and "corporate America" are pretty much like "US style Canadian Bacon" and peameal/backbacon--quite similar in general but when you look further you notice differences. Among them:
* The "competitive drive" is not as pronounced in Canada. Americans seem to place more importance on climbing the ladder, job titles and so on. Canadians strive to move up, but it doesn't seem the emphasis on being "VP" or "Regional Manager". We don't care what our title is so long as we are fairly compensated.
* Canadian business seems more fixated on process and bureaucracy. My employer is a global corporation, and even within the same company there is more paperwork and business processes seem more combersome than in our American offices.
* Be prepared for a shock when you see your first paycheque. The income tax, CPP (pension) and EI (employment insurance) deductions will take a bigger chunk of your earnings than you are used to. That and your salary will be a bit smaller to start with (don't worry, it's in Canadian dollars so it won't APPEAR to be significantly less). Overall the tax take is higher but it is taken in bigger chunks. In the US, you have federal, state, municipal taxes, health insurance, this fee, that fee, etc. US government nickels and dimes. In Canada they clobber you in the head and take your money all at ones, more or less (except for the GST).
* Cost of living is cheaper in Canada overall--Houses cost a bit less, medicare is cheaper, food is a bit cheaper, broadband internet access and cable TV are significantly cheaper (for you slashdotters out there). Makes up for the insanely high gasoline prices.
There's more but you get the idea...kind of a parallel universe really...
In my experience for middle class individuals in comperable areas it is about the same. The spread is wider in the US. Upper middle class is a bit higher, lower is a bit lower.r dale/2004/ 05/11/455050.html
Now lets attack the myths.
#1 Taxes
They are nearly 50% in Ontario.
http://money.canoe.ca/Columnists/Leathe
Note this includes income tax, sales tax, property tax, and the hidden taxes (user fees for government services, sin taxes on alcohol and tobacco, and gas taxes.
#2 Lifestyle
In my opinion you need somewhere about halfway between the exchange rate and the direct dollar figure assuming comperable areas. $40k US would be about $50k CDN
#3 Unemployment
I agree basically, Also note different states have different laws.
#4 You have to play the game right and have skills, it takes a year or so. But some people may take years. And of course demand occupations or those wtih big money are easier.
EI only covers maternity leave for a short time, maternity 15 weeks, parental 20, and sickness 15. I'd check it out before I knocked up my gf.
Hockey is easily the most popular, but so are other sports. You can go to a lot of sports bars and get any sport that is played. European football (soccer) time gets pretty nuts in some areas.
Work environments are about the same, but you really have to consider the city attitude, working in different US cities probaly has about as much variation as working across Canada.
You forgot coffee, everyone drinks it, and there are coffee shops everywhere (I'm from Ontario remember)
As an American working in Montreal for more than 2 years now, I have always said that Montreal is a wonderful city, and in my opinion, the best city I have ever been to (and I have been to quite a few, including Europe and the US). The people here are fantastic, and it's just a wonderful environment. And even for a non french speaking person like myself, adjusting to the city and the culture was no problem.
Now, granted, I had some help (I moved up here for work and for my girl, who I met online (IRC), and yes, we are still together), so I may have had it easier.
But still, it's a great city. Much more free up here than in the US, as the minds of people are more European, and much more liberal.
Jason Lotito
Are you aware that the unemployment rate here in the US does not count those who's unemployment benifits ran out and who are still jobless?
:)
Wrong.
The US Census Bureau (on behalf of the Bureau of Labor Statistics) determines the unemployment rate using a survey called the Current Population Survey (CPS). The definition of unemployed is:
1) Not currently employed.
2) Available to get a job.
3) Actively looked for work in the last 4 weeks.
There is nothing about unemployment benefits in here at all. This definition of unemployment is used around the world including Canada, Mexico, Australia, Japan, and all of the countries in the European Economic Community. Therefore, these numbers are also good for international comparisons.
During my college days, I worked as a surveyor for the USCB at the Tucson Telephone Center. I lived and breathed the CPS for a full week every month as we tried to get through our share of 50,000 surveys. A lot of fun, lemme tell ya.
The
Canada is our hat. Mexico is our pants. What the hell does that make Florida?
;p)
More impotently, think about how limp and dysfunctional that makes the United States.
(Impotently is a joke. I know how to spell importantly.
My reality check bounced.
He ran away from the taxes, poor health care, and constant interference of the government to come to California.
OMG, if he thought California was an improvement on those things, Canada must be truly screwed.
God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
The second clip is just as bogus as the first. Clinton didn't influence the advent of HTML and the resulting, massive speculation on the stock market. It's ludicrous to blame a president for that.
Hmm, you sound convincing. Perhaps one shouldn't blame (or credit) a president for flukes in the economy (even if you don't understand what caused the dot-com bubble...hint: it wasn't HTML).
blame Reagan and all the easily fooled people who voted for a Hollywood actor with wonderful, soundbite answers to complex issues.
Wow, hope you didn't injure yourself spinning around that quickly.
The truth of the matter is that Enron and their ilk ignored laws already on the books. New laws would change nothing. Instead, enforcement of existing laws is the real answer, and the lack of enforcement during the Clinton administration was the cause of not just the accounting debacles at Enron and company, but also the dot-com bubble (which were really two sides of the same coin). For more information, see here.
God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
This is coming from someone who grew up in Canada and lives in California now...
A key thing to keep in mind is your political stripe - if you are centrist here in the US, you are right wing in Canada. If you are right wing here, you will go nuts in Canada.
Generally, people are more pleasant in Canada in day to day life, however, when you are in need, Americans are more likely to reach out a helping hand because they haven't been conditioned to think its the government's job to take care of you.
Canadians are far more risk averse when it comes to business and that impacts every part of corporate life (both in good ways and bad).
Assuming you get the same $ salary, thecost of living is about the same or cheaper on soft goods and services (e.g. food, dry cleaning) but way more expensive on imported hard goods (e.g. playstation games, cars...the average car here is an upper class luxury in Canada). This difference is due to exchange rates exclusively. Some times the importers charge a bit lower in Canada because nobody could afford it otherwise.
Get used to paying about 15% sales tax on EVERYTHING (goods and services...except in Alberta).
Get used to working for branch offices of American companies where decisions are always made outside of your Canadian division. You are far less likely to be working for a division that creates products - more likely to be working for a sales, support, service organization.
Health care is generally better in Canada for day to day office visits for the average person. However, if you need to see a specialist or need high end diagnostics, prepare to wait months to a year. Everyone beats their chests about how health care is so much better in Canada (it is one of the only things they can think of defining them, after all) but in my experience both systems average out about the same - they are both facing rapidly increasing costs in the face of relatively infinite demand and have two different systems for rationing the service. If you look closely, the two systems are coming closer together out of necessity.
Good luck!
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is Canadian labour laws. In Canada, they are:
There's a lot more legal recourse here, so when the companies screw over their employees, they at least have to use lube.
2) David Dodge did same thing here in Canada, and, for the first time ever was successful in controlling it where you Americans failed -- there was no recession.
No recession here? Hahahahaha!
Okay, maybe there wasn't a recession in the strictest sense, but I can assure you...
Personally, I'll go stateside in a second as soon as George Dubya is out of office. He's even more draconian than the Canadian government "protecting" us from unpleasant things and "erosion of Canadian culture".
Fire and Meat. Yummy.
I've been to Eastern and Western Canada (never middle Canada) several times.
It seemed to be very expensive to live there. I live on the low side of middle class in a moderately priced West Coast USA city, and BC seemed to be rather expensive. Especially the provincial coupled with the federal sales tax, the various GSTs PSTs VATs whatever. The last time that I went I was really happy to get back to Washington state where everything was cheaper.
La situation en Quebec est plus difficulte si vous ne parlez pas ce que on crois serait francais la.
If you couldn't read the sentence above as fast as the one before it, reconsider moving to Quebec. They tend to rather touchy about their quaint local legacy language. If you studied a little French in school because French was the cool language to study instead of studying Spanish (which is the only language that Americans should seriously consider studying as it's not even a 'foreign' language here anymore), well then, yes, check out Quebec. Do, however, spend a few months watching DVDs with the language track set to French beforehand.
French is deceptively difficult language for Americans: it's spoken about 20-30% faster than English and has many subtle differences in the vowel sounds that aren't recognized in English. By the way, if you set the DVD audio track to French and the subtitles to French, you'll find that they are rarely the same. It seems that the movies generally get translated twice at different times, once for audio and once for titles. Plus neither of the two translator teams go by the original screenplay. Bit of a pain for language learners, but that was not its intended purpose. All in all, it's worth the trouble, because Quebec is North America's lost undiscovered country. [It's strange that due to NAFTA even Mexican products sold primarily in Mexico often have French translations on their boxes]
One last tip, don't hide sensitive materials from BC in your car at the same height of a dog's nose. Hollow door handles, tail lights, door panels, ect... Bad idea. Best leave Canadian pleasures behind, after all, America is best handled in typical American style: drunk.
It's a vast and diverse country, however before moving to Canada you should pick the province that best suits your personality.
East Coast (Newfoundland, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, PEI )
Do you like to Drink? Do you prefer to work summers and take winter off? Don't mind if the women aren't very attractive? The east coast is for you!
Québec
Are you looking for a place that's like Europe, but with half the class? Then say Bonjour to Québec!
Ontario
Do you miss Clinton? Are you gay? Like working for the government? Are you the smartest person you know? Then the logical choice is Ontario.
Manitoba
Like hating where you live? Being unemployed? Do you enjoy being eaten alive by mosquitoes in the summer and frozen solid in the winter? Then man its time to go to Manitoba.
Saskatchewan
Can't read? Sick of all the trees and hills messing up your views? Then welcome to the flatlands.
Alberta
Are you a redneck? Sick of being surrounded by hippies all the time. Want to support a winning hockey team? Then Alberta's the ticket cowboy.
British Columbia
Are you high? Do you want to be? Then dude! Hit the west coast man!
I live in Michigan so I meet quite a number of ex-Candadian who left and will never go back. Mostly because of the healthcare system. Sure it's free, but the problem is that you're always on waiting lists for even simple procedures. Some people die waiting for treatment. Also, they complain about the very high taxes.
But like my title says, my opinion is biased because I only hear from those who left Canada, not from those who love it and choose to stay.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
Just remember that we can live quite comfortably without a hat. Without us, you'd be even more full of shit.
In other words, Canada doesn't waste as much of its tax dollars as the US. I can buy that!
But the healthcare still isn't free...
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
A beautiful blonde female of French decent would cost you $1000 per hour in New York.
In Montreal, it will run you $150.
That is the real bargain.
I don't read or respond to AC posts
ACtually, the rise of the megacorps is due to the insane way we tax investments in the U.S.
Read Milton Friedman's analysis for the details, but essentially since investors are taxed more heavily for investing in companies that pay dividends than for investing in companies that plow their profits into expansion, naturally the investors invest in companies that keep reinvesting their income in favor of growth. This is why Enron and MCI were so popular, they kept growin dramatically by acquiring companies left and right.
The best way to end this troubling trend is to dramatically reduce the taxation of dividends like was done by Bush the younger ( I didn't vote for him, don't like his policies much, but occasionally he does something sensible).
Of course most people who oppose the dominance of huge corporations seem to oppose the very steps required to gently bring about the end to their dominance...
Peameal bacon is rolled in corn meal and tends to be somewhat saltier. The corn meal rim gets crisped when the rim of fat fries, adding a texture component to the flavour.
Backbacon is usually less salty, sometimes more smokey, and has no corn meal.
Both are made using pork tenderloin, so they're very low fat, more like a mini ham steak than greasy side-pork bacon.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
that's a huge difference! The tax burden is 25% higher in Canada by your figures!
Yes, and I get more for it. When you add in what Americans pay for private health care, your total equivalent burden is 38%, which is 8.6% more than Canadians'. Dispite various patriotic illusions, overall the health-care systems are about the same. The problem with Americans' health-care system isn't that it's capitalistic; it's that it's not. It's inefficient because of monopolization and corruption.
I've heard it at least a dozen times. It's fairly disgusting.
What? The bacon or the beer?
3cx.org - A truly bad website.
As has been pointed out in other posts, Canadian companies and work environments tend to be on the low end of the competitiveness scale. The preferred mindset seems to be "keep things steady and we will all have jobs for a long time." For most companies this works fine but it doesn't create a very challenging or interesting workplace. The government is the extreme example of this. If creativity or advancement are on your agenda you will probably be disappointed. Canada has far fewer start-up type companies because the markets are small and widely spaced. There just isn't the opportunity or the infrastructure to support many really dynamic companies.
I'm a Canadian. I've lived on the West Coast, in Winnipeg, and in Eastern Ontario. I also spent a year in the U.S., living in L.A. (Pasadena), and have been close to several Americans over the past 15 years.
I've worked in the public sector (universities and health care as a medical physicist) and in the private sector (largish public software company, several smaller private firms.) I now own my own company (http://www.predictivepatterns.com).
In one of my previous positions the company was run by Americans but staffed by Canadians, and it made me acutely aware of the cultural differences between the two countries. The Americans wanted cheer and ethusiasm. The Canadians weren't having any. They produced solid results, but they just couldn't be all happy and excited about it, and they found the Americans' attitudes extremely wearing. The Canadians' attitudes drove the Americans nuts.
So an American coming to Canada shouldn't be fooled by the fact that most of us speak something like the same language and have some other similarities. Canadians are different. We are more small-c conservative and more small-l liberal. We are stupid and wasteful in less obvious ways than Americans. We own lots and lots of guns but hardly ever shoot anyone with them.
Our national govenment is the only one in the G8 that has its fiscal house properly in order--we have run a surplus for long enough that I can't remember offhand the last time we had a deficit (sometime in the mid-90's) and we are steadly paying down our national debt. Most provincial governments are in less good shape, but still take fiscal probity seriously.
As a business-person, I love it here. You can incorporate nationally on-line for a total of $220. The federal government is a world-leader in supplying services electronically. Labour laws are a lot tighter here than in the U.S., but the work-force is generally well-educated and even unions are a lot more reasonable than they were 20 years ago. Taxes are somewhat higher, but this is largely compensated for by not having to pay for private health insurance.
The per-capita cost of health care is significantly lower in Canada than the US. We have a three-tier health care system, in which basic service is paid for via taxes, small levels of enhanced service are available for relatively small fees, and the very rich have U.S. hospitals ready to serve them right across the border.
The basic level of care for a wide range of things is as good or better as the U.S. average, but it's widely recognized that the basic health-care system is increasingly broken. If how we dealt with the federal deficit is any indication, there will be a decade of sometimes quite nasty debate that will end in a fairly broad concensus on what to do, and we'll do it.
Americans sometimes see that we are polite, and think us weak. They see that we are calm, and think us passive. They see that we are content, and think us stupid. They are wrong on all counts.
--Tom
Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
> Canada *dosnt have* an "inferitority complex" as
> much as USAians are incapable of seeing us
> WITHOUT *their* Superiority Complex -- get it?
> The USAians are projecting... and it speaks more
> to your hubris than our opinion of the world --
> get it?
The silly comment quoted above reminds me of my favorite Canadian joke:
I live in Windsor, ON and work in Dearborn, MI (a suburb of Detroit). My round trip commute is 54km/34mi or about an hour per day. I've had the opportunity to work in both countries, and I've noticed a few differences:
:)
- There is definitely more career opportunity in the U.S. It also seems easier to shine (not just *my* opinion), probably because with such a vast economy, there is plenty of opportunity to hire some real duds.
- You'll almost definitely make more money in the U.S. I enjoy the best of both worlds, paid in U.S. dollars, yet live in lower-cost Canada. Taxes are higher in Canada, but housing, utilities and food is somewhat lower.
- U.S. medical coverage is wonderful, as long as you have insurance. The Canadian system is actually quite good, except for certain types of procedures where there are unacceptably long waits. (I love having medical coverage in both countries.) Yes you pay for the Canadian system in terms of taxes, but don't lose sight of all the co-pays and hidden fees that come with most U.S. insurance programs. A coworker of mine recently had an extended stay in a U.S. hospital, and all those little fees added up to over $1000 USD.
- Culturally, I notice a few small differences in general, but most of the people I work with in the U.S. are wonderful, equally nice as the folks I've worked with in Canada. Canadians in general seem to be a bit more polite (seems hard to get a "you're welcome" out of many Americans), and Americans are definitely more confident and aggressive (which probabaly explains their business success). But most of the stereotypes mentioned here are just wrong in my opinion.
Work in Canada or the U.S.? It's really a matter of personal taste. You can't lose, as long as you work hard and find a nice place to work, I think you'll live very comfortably in either country.
By the way - those who said it's difficult to work in Canada are wrong. Computer folks under NAFTA have plenty of ways to obtain employment in either country.
-Steve-
Last time I was in Montreal, several girls asked me if I wanted to get laid eventhough I was with my girlfriend
;)
I'm not sure what part of the USA you're from, but up here, we call those "Prostitutes". Some of them are pretty open minded, hence, approaching a couple, instead of a single man.
Maybe these girls liked your friend, and were willing to let you join in for extra
- CEOs usually don't have to take responsibility for screw-ups beyond losing their jobs. This lowers the bar for deciding to buy another company.
- Companies have the rights of individuals. This means:
- During tough economic times, weaker parties can't survive on their own, but hold IP that their competitors don't want to go to someone else.
- Companies can sue each other into oblivion, resulting in #1.
- Companies have little real incentive to pay dividends, thus most don't, instead churning money back into themselves.
- By its very nature, capitalism tends to lead to either oligopoly or monopoly (though they usually eventually collapse) because in a sufficiently large group of competing forces, one or a few of them will always come up with some significant cost-cutting or quality-enhancing measure that puts them way ahead of their competition, resulting in an artificial imbalance that tends towards consolidation (or bankruptcy, if the stronger companies have nothing to gain from buying the weaker ones).
If anything, reducing the taxation of dividends will make things worse. Figure that most people don't pay much attention to the issue and just let their tax preparer handle those issues. The ones who pay attention to taxation of dividends are the uber-rich---the ones investing large sums of money. Thus, this will result in the richest few percent of the population having significantly more money that they can play on the stock market.While government can be one of the forces that creates the artificial imbalance, that imbalance is more often related to cost of entry into some aspect of the market.
Take, for example:
- IBM
- Ma Bell
- Microsoft
- TV, Radio, Motion Picture, and Music industries
- Microprocessors (just a handful of major players)
A business could be one tiny company out of a thousand or a much larger company out of five. Guess which one most businesspeople would rather run?Now, tell me... do you think they'll spend their money on a company that isn't trying to grow or a company whose goal is to become the single dominant player in a market? Don't you think that CEOs of companies will thus continue to try to buy other companies (particularly since many of these are the same people)?
No, the rise of the megacorps was inevitable. It's a product of a broken system whereby corporations have too many rights and are too unregulated. As long as consolidation is rewarded through -significantly- lower bills, more value for investors, and much higher overall profit, no amount of reduction in dividend taxation is going to make a significant dent in the situation.
The way to solve this is to avoid rewarding companies for merging. Make it economically undesirable for a company to make too much money without ploughing it into charitable causes or distributing it as dividends, in much the same way that people making huge amounts of money pay a larger percentage of the tax burden. This -directly- attacks the trend towards overconsolidation, and is the -only- effective means for controlling this natural tendency of the corporate world.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
I was curious about these privately held companies. According to Forbes, the top ten largest (in terms of annual revenue) U.S. based privately held companies in 2003 were:
1. Cargill
2. Koch Industries Inc.
3. Mars
4. Publix Super Markets
5. PricewaterhouseCoopers
6. Ernst & Young
7. Bechtel
8. C&S Wholesale Grocers
9. Meijer
10. HE Butt Grocery
(I think 3. should read Mars Defense Force.)
So, do you work for any of these? Does anyone know if these companies are better ("nicer") employers than are public corporations? What about privately held companies in other countries?
Now, just how self centric are you to not even be willing to learn something new ?
In the alternate universe where that was what was said, your comment would have made sense. Here in the real world where all the poster said was that you should practice up on French if you want to go to Quebec (which is the exact opposite of what you accused the poster of saying, your response was insulting and uncalled for.
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
A couple quick notes:
Companies have little real incentive to pay dividends, thus most don't, instead churning money back into themselves.
Right, that one was his argument.
No, the rise of the megacorps was inevitable. It's a product of a broken system whereby corporations have too many rights and are too unregulated.
I agree that it was inevitable, but the rest of your statement seems to presume that the very existence of megacorps is worse than a decrease in rights and an increase in regulation, a premise that I don't agree with. Especially since we've seen that with increased globalization, most corporations respond to regulation and taxation by moving more of their functions to less regulated countries. It's naive at best to tell corporations that they're the root of all evil, tax them, tell them what they can and can't do, then complain when they choose to take their business elsewhere.
Lastly, I think you left out the significance of branding and lock-in. People don't buy McDonalds or Sony or Microsoft more often just because there happens to be more of it out there. They buy those products because they are familiar with the brands, or because it will work with all their other Sony and Microsoft stuff. I'm not saying this contradicts your other reasons, simply that it should be added to your list.
Bottom line, I agree that corporations will tend to get larger, in that same laws-of-physics way that rocks tend to roll down hill. The only way to change that is repeated intervention - picking the rocks up and carrying them somewhere else, or picking individual companies and splitting them up by force of law. I personally think that intervention is a terrible idea.
I'm not sure what this means about copying a CD someone else bought to a tape, but copying a CD for a friend using digital audio equipment and audio cds is perfectly legal, and copying an audio tape to another audio tape is also legal. We pay a "tax" to the RIAA on every piece of digital audio equipment, audio CD, and audio tape to allow this per The Audio Home Recording Act of 1992.
As an American who learned French after moving to France five years ago, I find it easy to communicate in French because so many English words are French cognates. Once I caught on to French pronunciation, I suddenly understood a lot because I recognized many words that are very similar or the same in English. When speaking, if I don't know the French word for something, I sometimes try using the English word pronounced with my best approximation of a French accent. Often this works.
Cognates help in reading as well. Take a look at this sentence from an article in today's Le Monde online newspaper: Nearly every word in that sentence could be recognized by an English speaker.
- Le candidat = the candidate
- démocrate = democrat
- estime = feels, (related to the English word esteem, which as a verb has the same meaning)
- la politique = the politics
- président = president
- américain = american
- Irak = Iraq
- coûté = cost, (the circumflex accent indicates an unwritten 's' that follows the letter)
- Etats = States
- Unis = United
- respect = respect
- influence = influence
All together, the sentence in English is:Try thumbing through an English dictionary sometime and look at the etymology of words. Many, if not a majority, of English words come from French.
As for the differences between Canadian-French and French-French, I've never been to Quebec, but I've never had trouble conversing with Quebecois in French.
I love the "Canadian healthcare kills people" argument. American HMO bureaucracy and denials of coverage (not just *delays*, but DENIALS) kill people too. So what's your fucking point? Or do we all need to sit here and throw isolated anecdotes at each other?
Our own government admits that Canadians have better health hopes than Americans:
America:
Death rate:
8.44 deaths/1,000 population (2003 est.)
Infant mortality rate:
total: 6.75 deaths/1,000 live births
Life expectancy at birth:
total population: 77.14 years
Canada:
Death rate:
7.61 deaths/1,000 population (2003 est.)
Infant mortality rate:
total: 4.88 deaths/1,000 live births
Life expectancy at birth:
total population: 79.83 years
They manage to beat us at every reasonably meaningful measurement of health and longevity, and they do it without privatization!
Though they don't leave more money in *your* pocket; and therefore, as a strategy of national interest, it fails.
Note: the above numbers are not isolated to well-off conservatives.
Terrorists can attack freedom, but only Congress can destroy it.