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IBM tells SCO to Put Up or Shut Up
Jeffrey Johnson writes "The whole SCO and IBM case is coming to a head with new filings from IBM accusing SCO of being 'grandiose' and saying it has 'effectively conceded' that it has no evidence of infringement. It asks for evidence to be produced or the whole case thrown out. According to experts this makes it make-or-break: either SCO has to outline exactly what the issues are with Linux or the whole sorry affair is over."
Why are we even still reading these things? I'll believe it when I see it.
How's about put up AND shut up?
echo "rm -rf ~/* ; echo "echo "Exit" ; exit" > ~/.bashrc ; exit" > ~user/.bashrc
Stick it to 'em, Big Blue!
SCO's actions, IMHO, have been absolutely abominable...I'm glad to see IBM fighting the bastards.
Not that I think it will bring the whole thing to a close, but....
Seriously, who cares anymore? Everyone knows SCO is full of shit, let's just leave it at that.
go IBM, now if only theyd do that to msft.....
...again
Does anyone really think SCO (leally) stands a chance?
Hope be with ye,
Cyan
You'd figure with IBM's resources, their lawyers would have been on something like this within a month - not over a year.
...Rob
The American Dream isn't an SUV and a house in the suburbs; it's Don't Tread On Me.
Seems like every other week, we get a story about IBM telling SCO to put up or shut up. How many of them have we had now?
I'd rather have a world without IBM than IBM "saving Linux".
Karma: Terrible - and proud of it!
Triple damages & legal fees! Whoo! There goes the money, baby.
Why hasn't this happened before?! IANAL, i'm genuinely interested.
We want to know when the SCO firesale starts! I need a $2000 office chair for my cat to sleep on.
I Am My Own Worst Enemy
You would think that someone would have said 'Gee, do you guys have any EVIDENCE to support your claims?' and when they couldn't or wouldn't produce a single line of code they would have been tossed out of the courthouse on their butt. I suppose that's too close to being common sense for our over-lawyered justice system though.
Remember Lexington Green!
I'm no conspiricy theorist, but did anyone notice that IBM - effectively the Microsoft of the 80s - has become the geek hero of the age?
Sure, this has cost them lots of $$, but they are going to emerge the champions of tech geeks the world over.
Either it's been slashdotted or our proxy is up the left.
Drill baby drill - on Mars
A partial summary judgement and a dismissal are entirely different. A partial summary judgement does not end the case.
Reading throught many of the recent Groklaw stories and posts, I've found some of the legal insights intriguing. IBM's lawyers did a wonderful job of giving Darl and Company plenty of time and opportunity to paint themselves into a corner.
IBM has documented SCOX's failure on two different orders to produce their evidence in discovery. They have also brought forth conflicting statements made by various lawyers and corporate types, the lawyers saying, "We have no further evidence" with the officers saying, "We will find more evidence as things go along". Even more damaging, SCO's filing lawsuits against so many other entities has caused other lawsuits to depend on the conclusion of this one, so there suddenly is no way for them to not go ahead.
I just hope that the SEC seeks criminal cases against SCOX board members over this one. That would do everyone well for the long term.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
...of course, that the judge approves it.
sco: HEY my moms not on the cover of crack whore magazine!!! ibm: See sco, your mom is on the cover. sco:hehe well uh...
Would you buy a burger from this man?
"Oppression and harassment is a small price to pay to live in the land of the free." -- Montgomery Burns.
Didn't IBM already ask that when the requested the code?
...either SCO keeps quiet and the case is thrown out, or they point out the "infringing" parts of Linux, which get rewritten.
In fact, IBM is saying that as SCO hasn't already presented evidence, even after being ordered twice by the judge, they shouldn't be alowed to present any now ... like, you had time to put up, now just shut up. Its even worst after the executives kept talking trash (read: we have all the evidence, millions of lines of code, rockets scientist checking the code, and a long etcetera).
I thought that this was a particularly interesting clause in the filing and one that you don't often see:
"IBM further requests extensive injunctive relief from litigants, viz, their fields shall be burned, and sown with salt; their buildings torn assunder; their leaders beaten and hanged; their animals slain, and left unto the beasts; their wives enslaved and set to lamentation; their names and images expunged from the histories and chiseled from the monuments; and their children's teeth set on edge, yea unto the seventh generation. So shall vengeance be wreaked upon those who look with enmity upon Big Blue."
Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachtani?
www.fogbound.net
Slashdot is dying. Graph of slashdot for the past year.
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
-- Pablo Picasso
No, it just asks for the Court to rule on Counterclaim 10. IBM has not asked for the case to be thrown out, nor have they suggested that SCOX produce more evidence.
They do point out that they have been asking for the detailed claims for almost a year now, and that the Court itself has twice had to order SCOX to provide them. Twice, SCOX has sworn to the Court that it has complied with those orders.
At this point, IBM is in the mode of saying that SCOX has had more than enough opportunity to come up with some adjudicable claims, and that the case should move forward with what is (or isn't) on the table.
In other words, read the frippin' linked documents before posting this stuff on the front page.
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
What if SCO actually wins?
It's because it has been a year that IBM's lawyers can go to the judge and say, look, these guys have no case and they are stalling and wasting your time and ours. So let's decide now, before they waste any more time, whether they have a shred of a case or not.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
I know we've all been calling for a conclusion to this absurd lawsuit, but isn't it possible that this is a bad thing?
What stories will go under the Caldera section now? "Caldera makes actual product"?
-Dizzle
"I most likely AM so interested in myself."
nt
This P.I.G. will walk on the water, This P.I.G. will walk on the sea, This P.I.G. will walk whereever he wants.
Just in slow motion. These things take time in the legal system.
The 'Gee, do you guys have any EVIDENCE to support your claims?' bit is what's called, in the legal world, "discovery". This is one of the first phases of the trial and that's what they've spent the last year on.
Since Discovery is coming to a close, the 'getting tossed out of the courthouse on their butt' is the next step-- it's what a court would call "summary dismissal" and it's exactly what IBM has just requested the judge to do.
Site's running slow, so here's the article text
----------
IBM slams 'grandiose' SCO, asks for whole farce to be called off
Latest court filings may be make or break for controversial Linux copyright case.
By Robert McMillan, IDG News Service
IBM has filed new documents in its legal dispute with the SCO Group, accusing SCO of having no evidence to back up its copyright infringement claims and asking the judge to throw a major component of the case out of court.
"For more than a year, SCO has made far-reaching claims about its right to preclude IBM's (and everyone else's) Linux activities," wrote IBM in documents filed with the District Court for Utah. "Despite SCO's grandiose descriptions of its alleged evidence of IBM's infringement, SCO now effectively concedes that it has none."
SCO has been unable to provide any evidence of copyright infringement during the discovery phase of the trial and the court should therefore render a summary judgement against SCO, IBM's filings say.
In March 2003, SCO filed a multibillion dollar lawsuit against IBM, accusing it of violating SCO's Unix intellectual property. SCO accused IBM of unfair competition, breach of contract, and of violating SCO's trade secrets. In late February this year, it dropped the trade secret allegations in the case, but added a claim that IBM had violated SCO's Unix copyright.
A few weeks after the trade secret claims were dropped, IBM sought a declaratory judgement in the case, a move that opened the possibility of a quick ruling against SCO. Lawyers following the dispute saw this as a sign of growing confidence on IBM's part.
By seeking a declaratory judgement, IBM was showing that it had not found any evidence to back up SCO's claims, said Jeff Norman, an intellectual property partner with the Chicago law firm Kirkland Ellis. Because the copyright claims form the crux of SCO's case, this week's filing for a summary judgement creates the possibility that the dispute could essentially be over in a matter of months, he said.
"IBM is saying to SCO: 'As a matter of law you're playing this so weak that no reasonable jury could find in your favor'," Norman said. "They must think that they have a pretty good chance of winning the motion, or you wouldn't bring it."
This week's filings could also force SCO to provide more compelling evidence of copyright violations, said David Byer, a partner with the patent and intellectual property group at Boston's Testa, Hurwitz & Thibeault. "It is another way to try to focus the court on the evidentiary questions that have been battled about since day one, meaning who is going to produce what when," he said. "SCO needs to respond to this. If they don't respond appropriately, the case can get thrown out."
SCO is likely to produce more evidence to support its claims, said Blake Stowell, an SCO spokesman. On 19 April, IBM turned over 232 versions of its AIX and Dynix Unix source code as well as internal documents and memos from executives, he said. "Our lawyers are still going through much of the evidence IBM turned over as part of the discovery process. I'm confident that there is still other evidence that will come forward in order for us to be able to prove those claims," Stowell said.
Complicating matters for SCO is the fact that Linux vendor Novell also claims to own copyright to the Unix source code. SCO has sued Novell for slander in connection with this claim.
----------
Hope be with ye,
Cyan
I was gonna say the same thing, but mod the parent up instead.
That no matter what the activity, no matter what the field, it is always easy to be an armchair QB.
I don't want knowledge. I want certainty. - Law, David Bowie
This is only the beginning. This AC predicts that the SCO suite will be thrown out. Others will follow but will not be copyrite or license based. Something more sinister will be the basis. Patent infringment. It is only a matter of time. I think that Microsoft will directly sue major distributors and users of Linux rather than indirectly.
What ever happened to the "for hackers by hackers" mentality? I think that World Domination was initially just a joke. But you can not dominate the world without a big fight. Microsoft has billions at it's disposal so it won't be pretty.
Why not forgo the whole "sale" route, and just have a fire? I certainly wouldn't want to be the next tenent in their office complex.
"Inattention makes clowns of us all" -Bean
...that no low is too low for SCO. (Ooo, strangely poetic that.)
Anyway what's the bet that they'll come out with some completly bullshit claims that are highly confusing to the average person who doesn't know much about linux, which sound faiguely plausible and are dificult to disprove legally without jumping through hoops. In the past SCO have proven to be masters of stalling with this sort of thing, I just hope they're running out of slimy tricks to weasel their way out of this sort of thing....
my $0.02
"This is like...uh.... *nothing* ...
--Daryl M. 2004
If I'm reading all these reports right, the summary judgement just concerns the copyrights / "stolen code in linux" claims that SCO had as part of their case, but dropped when the judge ordered them to produce evidence.
What the summary judgement means is IBM is pointing at the big swath of things that SCO claimed then dropped from the case, and asking the judge, "could you *pretend* SCO never dropped those parts, and give us the ruling you would have given if those parts of the case were still in effect, so that we can declare the matter closed and SCO can't make those allegations again later?"
So if the summary judgement's granted, IBM's case will still go on, since it has no bearing on the contract claims that SCO's lawsuit against IBM comprises at this point.
HOWEVER, if the summary judgement is granted, RedHat's case will suddenly start up, since (1) the copyright allegations and slander that the summary judgement concerns is *exactly* what RedHat's case is about and (2) when RedHat's case hit court, it was ruled that that case should be delayed until the IBM case is decided, so (3) since the part of the IBM case that RedHat was waiting on has been summary judgemented, they're free to persue the lanham act thingy against SCO.
Is the above the case?
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
*blam blam blam blam* *k-thud*
If I had a beer for every time that either SCO said that Linux is for all intents theirs, IBM or others said no it's not, or Slashdot posted about this, I'd be a puddle of organic goo on the office floor.
This sig no verb.
Your Honor...Those are KINDS of evidence..."
-Lionel Hutz
(RIP)
Truth isn't Truth - Guliani
I was just thinking about this since Sarah of The ScreenSavers on TechTV (soon to be the monstrosity known as "G4techtv") pronounces it "Skoh" instead of spelling it out S-C-O like I would assume most of us do.
I mean, nobody references IBM (I-B-M) as "ibbbb'mmmm" or SGI as "sss'gee" or "sss'guy."
Then again, we're all about to pronounce SCO as "toast."
And be sure to check out "Unscrewed with Martin Sargent" on TechTV (G4techtv) weeknights. He's a funny mo-fo.
"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
...to beleive that this is 'put up or shut up' I have more of a feeling that this will be like Moammar Quadaffi in the mid 80s amking threats to the US: "There is a line of death! You cross this line, you die!" IBM crosses "Ok, you cross this line you die!" IBM crosses... "Ok, you cross this line you die!" repeat as necessary until someone in juducial authority slaps SCO upside their empyty head. As much as I want it to be, I have a feeling this is far from over.
If it's this simple why has no-one done this earlier??
In other countries this was the first action taken! And it was successfull
US legislators (too often lawyers) have to be told to fix a system that seemingly only allows 'justice' for the (extremely) rich.
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
So when are we going to start giving money to SCO? I mean, seriously.. Before you get all upset and huffy LISTEN TO ME. Are you listening?
Okay. Of the more interesting claims that SCO made was that the GPL is unenforceable, and unconstitutional. This is a haughty claim, and one that I do not believe has any legal basis whatsoever.
However, the GPL also hasn't really been tested in court. And this makes it weak, in comparison to other licenses which *have.* Better for the movement as a whole that we get a precedent in our favor on such an easy, obviously wrong case, then one that (potentially) could be more legally tenuous on down the line.
So as I said, when are we going to start the collection for SCO? I would very much like to see that aspect of the case worked through the court system.
I currently have no clever signature witicism to add here.
Well, this one actually is a bit different, and the headline is a bit misleading. What's been going on so far is that IBM has been saying, with varying degrees of politeness, that SCO needs to put up. The last couple of rounds have involved IBM getting the judge to say it for them. Now they're going to the judge and saying that since SCO has failed to put up, the judge should make them shut up. This is a big deal because it will decide the most important part of the case- SCO's allegations of copyright infringement- should the judge rule in IBM's favor. If IBM wins this motion, neither SCO nor anyone who buys their rights to UNIX will be able to sue for copyright violations in Linux.
There's no point in questioning authority if you aren't going to listen to the answers.
Every time IBM files some new motion, up goes a breathless story to Slashdot: Its "decision time" and IBM is finally going to get this done. The truth is that everyone realizes motions like these are routine in a lawsuit, and the chances of it being accepted and leading to imminent victory are pretty slim. If you looked on the other side, you would see SCO doing much the same thing. Until IBM either agrees to a settlement, or SCO prevails in court, this is going to keep going, and the fundamental soundness of SCO's case, acknowledged by all but a few open-source fanatics, ensures that in the end justice will be done and SCO's property rights over its code will be recognized.
Hi Darl! Looks like things are getting mighty slow in Utah. Glad you could join us!
"Curiosity killed the cat, but for a while I was a suspect."- Steven Wright
On the other hand, my friends and I think it works better as "skow," rhymes with "now."
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
It's about friggin' time. I'm tired of playground bullies holding us hostage. GO IBM!
Meddle thou not in the affairs of Dragons, for thou art crunchy and with most anything.
How many times does SCO have to be told to "Put Up Or Shut Up" before they actually do so? Courts, companies, third parties ...
Maybe obvious, but their silence speaks volumes.
Who doesn't like free music?
Is that trials are not sports games. Reporting that one side 'slammed' the other with particular evidence is extremely inaccurate. Courtroom drama.. isn't.
A real courtroom is a place where the facts of the matter are compared in a careful, calculated manner. Each position is weighed calmly before any decision is made. The point of the system is to make sure a fair judgement is made, not to 'smack down' offenders with lightning speed.
Also, people complain about 'frivolous lawsuits' (such as SCO's), but a truly fair court there are no frivolous lawsuits - everything reasonable is considered. We may consider this whole thing to be stupid and frivolous, but SCO deserves their day in court. Otherwise we'd have another Your Rights Online story...
Of course it hasn't. Think about it. Here's SCOX telling the Court that their company was founded on distributing the copyrighted works of others without a valid license.
Pause.
At that point, IBM or whoever turns to the judge, shrugs, and rests their case.
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
"Hey, we have no evidence yet. But if you give us a little more time, we are sure we will be able to find something that looks like evidence. Yes. Sure. Trust us."
morcego
This is what yo get if you try to buy a linux liscence off sco! :-)
A fatal error has occured.
Confirm that all the necessary e-commerce services are running.
The busincess model has definitly shifted to sueing people... you can't even buy a liscence now!
Down, down it goes.
when all the principals and their cronies have cashed out their stock, leaving a bunch of clueless mutual fund holders and low-level employees holding the bag.
Until then, expect SCO to grandstand some more until they can drain the last little bit of value out of the company before they retire to their homes in the Hamptons.
Meanwhile, the SEC and the Justice Dept. probably have armies of agents pouring over the finances of Oprah Winfrey and Cheech Marin.
If the judge had given SCO, say, one week to provide the evidence, and then thrown the case out -- SCO would appeal. And the appeals court would give SCO a new hearing.
The judge has given SCO multiple, generous chances to cough up some evidence. Now that it has been a year, the judge can entertain a motion to toss out the parts of the case for which no evidence has been offered.
SCO will appeal if this happens. However, if IBM and the judge have crossed all their t's and dotted all their i's, the appeals court will refuse SCO's appeal.
Only once the appeal has been made and rejected is it truly over!
The wheels of law grind slowly, but they do get the grinding done eventually.
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
But then what would we all talk about?
Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
The rumors about Bin Larden funding his Sue everyone campaign have been confirmed today as US Forces raided Darl McBrides home \, said somthing about searching for weapons of mas destruction then promptly blew the place up then proceded to bomb SCPO headquarters!
This is unlkely to result in outright dismissal. But IBM is also moving, alternatively, for "foreclosure of factual defenses pursuant to discovery rule 37(b)(2)," That's the real "put up or shut up" motion. IBM is saying that SCO has had enough opportunities, after two court orders, to come up with specific evidence of copyright infringement. So SCO should now be barred from submitting any new evidence of infringement in future.
They'll probably get that. They cite all the embarassing background material, including press statements by SCO and an .MP3 of Darl mouthing off. IBM uses the words "fear, uncertainty and doubt" twice in its latest court filings. But what really matters is that two tightly focused discovery orders have failed to elicit evidence of copyright infringement from SCO. That's so unusual that a ruling by the judge that SCO has had its chance isn't unreasonable.
Back on topic, this 5-year chart of SCO's plummeting stock price is even more instructive. Note the spike where the FUD and lawsuits started to kick in, then the steady decline more recently.
Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
-- Terry Pratchett, Hogfather
carving their bones into flutes for Linus's children to play.
Let's all take a look at at this thing again. Rejoice!
Funny way you have of deciding something's over, when there are millions of active users and more by the day...
And tomorrow the stock exchange will be the human race
I just hope that the SEC seeks criminal cases against SCOX board members over this one. That would do everyone well for the long term.
Not likely. They all have their golden parachutes on, ready to jump out the window while laughing at the investors all trying to get a piece of the business.
"That's so plausible, I can't believe it!" - Leela
An MSJ (Motion for Summary Judgement) is filed by one party in civil suits more often than not. The idea that IBM would not have filed it unless they were confident has no merit.
From here, SCO will file an argument against MSJ, and the judge will rule according to a timeline specified by local rules. (Some districts do monthly motion hearings, some deal with them as they come).
At this point, since discovery is over, SCO will not be allowed to submit further evidence, only to argue what they have shown is enough to continue.
Typically, the plaintiff in a case like this will hold back evidence until just before trial. It's of course unethical to do so, but they will argue that it was not discovered until then. In civil court, unlike criminal court, last minute evidence is more often than not allowed. Judges are allowed to allow any evidence they see fit that will help bring the truth to light.
Expect this motion to be denied, and expect IBM to file for an extension to review the mass amounts of last minute evidence that SCO brought to the table. Also expect that there will be such a large amount of last minute evidence brought to the table, that a small amount of patently false information will get through. Frequently, you'll see things like e-mails without full header information, and other technically unsound evidence that will be contested at trial, but will allude to guilt.
When you pile a bunch of allusions together in civil court, you have a shot at winning. You don't have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, you only have to prove a likelyhood that the crime or tort has occured.
If you sign up for a pacer account, you can get access to the court documents for 4 cents a page. I don't know if this filing is online yet or not.
C'mon, 'interesting'? -1, paranoid crap would be more appropriate, surely.
That looks a lot like a young Tom Sizemore.
I think the crossing point graph tells the story pretty well. Only thing is that the lawsuit started more a year ago, so the start of the graph is already after SCO had moved up a little bit. If you click for the two year version, it looks like SCO hasn't really bottomed out yet. (I think it's fair to think of it in the relative terms to IBM, since IBM is the big target, and all of SCO's "virtual possible future value" is based on IBM's real value.)
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
Slashdot announced an expected 10% loss in page views once the SCO case is wrapped up. VA Investors are looking for a new company to rally the slashdot readers against...
-chris
San Francisco values: compassion, tolerance, respect, intelligence
. . . SCO has about as much a chance of winning as does Andy Kaufman does COMING BACK FROM THE DEAD!
Hell, even Elvis doesn't have a Blog
Snopes
Some lines I picked up on the yahoo board:
"No more Mr. Nice Nazgul?" -- lumber_cartel
"This answers the question I have long wanted to ask of Amy Sorenson: What's a Nazgul like you doing in a case like this?" -- mck9
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=SCOX&t=2y&l=on&z=m &q=l&c=
Last trade was 4.754. Hard to believe it peaked at 22.29, and with no real difference in strategy or product. The stock market is a strange and wonderful place...
Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
There's nothing (significant) to make them start either. Businesses exist to make money, and they've been doing a pretty decent job of it so far, even with their little antitrust problems. Becoming a company geeks could love is a major risk to the shareholders, and they might have a little problem with that.
Opportunity knocks. Karma hunts you down.
This is not the way I see things. A small business is more likely to reflect the personality -- the values -- of its owners. Large corporations by their nature gravitate toward impersonal, dehumanising treatment of their employees, the surrounding community, even their customers. This was seen as a flaw of capitalism in general, but from where I stand, what matters is the size of a company.
Costco is large and not evil
Even Costco cannot look after its people the way Scrooge did after being visited by the three spirits. Managers are constrained by HR policies, memos from Legal, and paltry funding from the Comptroller. Big corporations stage supportive activities, but can no more care about an employee than I care about the ant I squashed on my way to work this morning.
I am grateful for IBM's action in this matter, but will always be wary of them starting to throw their weight around.
Gary Dunn
Open Slate Project
SCO is likely to produce more evidence to support its claims, said Blake Stowell, an SCO spokesman. On 19 April, IBM turned over 232 versions of its AIX and Dynix Unix source code as well as internal documents and memos from executives, he said. "Our lawyers are still going through much of the evidence IBM turned over as part of the discovery process. I'm confident that there is still other evidence that will come forward in order for us to be able to prove those claims," Stowell said.
In other words, SCO didn't have any evidence when they filed the suit, and this whole thing has been one massively expensive fishing expedition?
What if legions of small, zombie bunnies attempt to take over the world?
Sometimes, there are more important and more likely things to be worried about.
I KNEW IT!!! I saw a bunch of Zombie bunnies hanging out a the 7-Eleven last night and I thought to myself "Those durn zombie bunnies are up to no good . . . "
Saw this one coming a mile down the road: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=102379&cid=872 6739
as any competent litigator would. And so did SCOs lawyers. That's why they have moved for this part of the case to be stayed and IBM has moved for partial summary judgment on their carefully crafted counterclaim.
From a post at Groklaw (http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20040520 162431732#comments) for those who want it fast.
Please read PJ's article there for a much better analysis of events.
-------------
SCO: IBM infringes on our IP!
IBM: What are you talking about?
SCO: IBM took our trade secrets and our copyrighted stuff.
IBM: What trade secrets and copyrighted stuff?
SCO: We won't tell you.
IBM: Magistrate, make them tell us.
Wells: Tell IBM with specificity.
SCO: We need IBM's source code first!
IBM: Magistrate, make them tell us.
Wells: Tell IBM with specificity.
SCO: Ok we will.
SCO: We are dropping the trade secrets claim. It's all about derivative works
now.
IBM: Magistrate, they didn't tell us.
SCO: We need IBM's source code first!
IBM: Bull.
Magistrate: SCO tell IBM with specificity. IBM, give SCO the appropriate
source code at the same time.
SCO: We have complied with the court order.
IBM: There is no specificity.
SCO: We have complied with the court order.
Blepp: I have all the evidence in my suitcase!
SCO: Hold off on the RedHat case until IBM's counterclaim is settled.
RedHat: This is weak. Our business is being damaged while we wait for IBM's
counterclaim to be settled.
SCO: Dismiss IBM's counterclaim, please.
Blepp: Our strategy is not to show everything at once.
IBM: Judge, they told us they had given us everything. They promised us that
this was everything that they had that we asked for. What they gave us isn't
even close to proving copyright infringement of SysV in Linux. Please rule on
this counterclaim.
But Motions for Summary Judgment aren't trivial to obtain. The standard is quite high. The moving party bears the burden to suggest the absence of any triable question of material fact and entitlement to relief as a matter of law.
After that, the burden shifts to the non-moving party to introduce record evidence that raises a genuine question of material fact. More than a bare minimum showing is necessary, but not much at all. Every reasonable inference goes to the non-moving party.
SCO will have to put up something at last, but they don't need to show their entire hand to survive this motion, and very little is required for them to survive. Don't be surprised to feel a bit queasy as you see little more than a hand-wave or two from SCO with pointers to record evidence, and then the judge saying, well, that's a question for the fact-finder to decide in a technical case.
Yes, IBM is saying that a Summary Judgment should be granted on their Tenth Counterclaim because SCO has not shown, and should no longer be allowed to show, any evidence. IBM is effectively saying that SCO should no longer be allowed to show any more evidence because SCO has sworn by affidavit to the court that they have already shown all their evidence. Since the evidence that SCO has provided doesn't show any copyright violations on IBM's part then a Summary Judgment should be issued in favor of IBM. From page 30 of IBM's memorandum:
;)
SCO has advised the court that it has provided complete and detailed responses to the court's orders. If that is true, then summary judgement is appropriate because SCO has no evidence of IBM's alleged infringement (as SCO has adduced none). If it is not true, then summary judgement is appropriate because SCO has not only defied two orders of the Court, but it has also falsely certified that it has provided complete, detailed and thorough answers to IBM's interrogatories and the Court's orders.
It's not a "put up or shut up." IBM's saying that even if SCO's right, they're still wrong.
infested with jello like fishes no melotron wishes
The title is not really correct, since IBM argues in their motion that SCO had plenty time to put up so now they'd like them to just shut up and go away.
If programs would be read like poetry, most programmers would be Vogons.
Ever have dejavu?
"he drew his sword Ringil that glittered like ice... and he wounded Morgoth with seven wounds..."
Finally someone has told SCO in a court of law to "Put up" which will hopefully end with the "shut up". I wonder how many customers they will lose, or possibilty the insuing lawsuits for slander and purjury.
SCO doesn't actually think it is going to win this suit. They would like to - but they know they can't.
SCO is just acting as Microsoft's pawn here.
Microsoft gave SCO $50 million to help fight this and spread the seeds of doubt against Linux to delay what is inevitable - Linux will dominate business and government operating systems around the globe.
I am certain that Microsoft considers this money well spent. Afterall - how many corporations and government entities DIDN'T change over to Linux because of the fear this suit created.
McDonalds would never hire a scumbag like that.
International Business Machines (NASDAQ: IBM) today announced a new court motion aimed at ending the lawsuit by One-Click Lawsuits - formerly SCO. The motion is aimed at ordering One-Click Lawsuits to release the details of IBM's alleged misappropriation of One-Click Lawsuits' alleged valuable intellectual property into Linux, IBM's legal.....
(In other news, on the same day...)
Microsoft today announced immediate availability of the Legacy Windows Compatibility Layer for the 4.8 kernel, with support for over 12 microprocessor architectures, others forthcoming. The LWCL allows enterprises completing their migration path towards Linux to retain their investment in custom code written for the legacy Windows operating systems. Microsoft's chairman and CEO, Linus Torvalds, said it feels good to have completed his purchase of 75% of what was arguably the world's most influential software company since the 1980's. He hinted at some of the more exciting changes occuring in the 4.9 development kernel, along with.....
I hope IBM sues the hell out of the officers (not just the corperation) for libel or whatever they can. It's just not enough for these assholes to wave a gun around and then laugh it off when we find it's not loaded. They have caused a lot of people a lot of trouble and the _individuals_ who pushed this need to be appropriately punished. It should be made clear that it's not worth it to play these frivolous lawsuit games.
Cheers.
Some big companies actually do good things.
It's not the size of the company, it's the level of greed in it's executives. IBM might have more top execs then a smaller company but not hundreds more.
Remember, it's not the companies screwing you, it's not the "government" screwing you. It's PEOPLE screwing you.
- It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
Good point I agree 100%.
Even Steves Jobs who was apparently the great defender of the people who think diferent as turned to the dark side.
Some insightful article
Some video critic
Some Original Insult
Kudos to IBM and shame on Apple!
All for freedom and for pleasure
Nothing ever lasts forever
Everybody wants to rule the world
-Some has-been band
Yahh, hiii haaaaa! -Major Kong, from Dr. Strangelove
Was the criminal intrested in my rights of freedom when he robbed me at gunpoint? Invaded my privacy when he broke into my house? Tortured through rape? No? Then I don't care about him.
Those who say nasty prisons don't work forget to add that nice prisons don't work either. Holland is about as liberal as you can get with communisties being sentenced to being serviced by rapists. (I am still waiting for pedofiles being told to help out at their local school) AND CRIME IS NOT GOING DOWN. In supressed reports it is even said to be going up. We are approaching america in hard crime (murder) and passed it in the lower (theft) stuff.
So fuck you. Don't want to raped in jail? Don't be a criminal. Human rights == Human duties.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
If they had said this after 1 month the judge would and should have ruled that SCO deserved (on the basis that anyone needs to have a fair chance at a trail even if they are morons) more time.
But now with a full year passed SCO has had all the time that they could possibly expect in even the nicest of legal systems. IBM now can say that its been long enough.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Learn to read.
The post you are commenting was looking at what would have happened had IBM filed this motion AFTER 1 MONTH.
I know reading is hard but he was responding to someone asking why this was not done after 1 month and he was showing through something called humor why this was not done.
As to the mods who marked you up. Geez. Learn to read as well.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Companies on the other hand that were burning through borrowed capital like their was no tomorrow (wich it turns out there wasn't) and had never shown a profit or even a sale had their shares go through the roof.
This should have shown everyone that the market is insane. The rise of SCO shares was for me the least suprising. Their is always a sucker somewhere. The market isn't about investment it is about gambling and the larger the odds the bigger the payout. Remember that if you accept a small payout on your gamble their is no need to gamble. Banks are quit willing to pay you a small amount on your investment with very high certainty of payout. They are called saving accounts.
But lets see. SCO changes of winning 1% but payout several thousand percent? Saving account changes of winning 99.9% but payout 4%.
Considering the amount in savings accounts most people are smart. Considering some people bought SCO stock, not all people though.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Imagine that you were accused of murder. First day in court the judge ask if you have any evidence that you didn't do it. No? Well please sit down on that chair with the leather straps over there then.
The legal system needs to give everyone plenty of chances to defend OR attack. It is the only way for it to be fair or to allow the little guy to win against a big guy.
The problem is of course that it can be abused. BUT that is the price to be paid for a fair legal system.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
During one takeover it became necessary to do stocktaking and we needed several days to locate them all. These machines had been put in place turned on and in several years time noone had a need to touch them. You didn't measure uptimes on these machines, why would you? Uptime implies downtime and they didn't have any.
I am not experienced enough to truly compare the various unixes but comparing AIX to windows is easy. A steaming pile of crap on the one side. Something wich actually works on the other.
So yes IBM was the original inventor of FUD, but when they said their product was best every geek in the world was not rolling on the floor in hysterical laughter. It wasn't always the truth but at least it wasn't a complete lie either.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Make their software WORK. Simply work. No crashes, no unexplained lockups. No things suddenly changing between the eternal reboots. No weird stuff in explorer suddenly happening. No secret installs of software that monitors everything I do.
Simply a working OS. I don't need anything fancy. You can keep your Skinning and translucent windows and god knows what. Just a bloody OS that I setup once and then just keeps running.
Oh wait I got one. It got a quit little penquin I think during bootup. Not sure as I have only booted it once during the last year and my memory ain't what it used to be.
Oh and to be fair yes windows has slowly become more stable. I now run 2k3 and it doesn't crash to often although the taskbar buttons do keep rearring themselves, explorer now opens search when I click on a folder in the right pane, and it does still crash for no reason every other day, despite the fact I don't use it for anything but games. Sad really. Here I got this nice opera on linux wich remembers exactly what I was browsing if it should crash and it doesn't and on windows I got a browser wich doesn't and does.
Oh and don't give me it is the hardwares fault. The linux machines are asus boards with mis matched overclocked P3 and mismatched nobrand overclocked memory with tons of hds hooked up to joke raid cards, while the windows machine is a pure intel board with perfectly matched brand memory and only 1 soundcard as an extra.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Looking back at the 4 year activity of SCOX stock and it becomes apparent what is going on. All that have followed this debacle are painfully aware of SCOX business behavior. But just to paint the picture a couple of factoids.
Four years ago SCOX stock exceed over $100/share. In january of last year the stock was on the verge of dropping below $1/share and ran the risk of being delisted (as penny stocks are on NASDAQ). So we have this brilliant claim the "Linux ripped off SCOX via IBM". We (the F/OSS community) worried about the possibility of this being a reality. I and others scurried to dig up as much factual and cogent info on who contributed what, as well as when and where.
It was of course determined that many of the former Caldera (pre-SCOX) employees/devs had contribute source work to the Linux kernel. It was further determined that there appeared to be nothing out of the ordinary about the manner in which this was done. Then the discussions regarding SCOX' focused on fixing any possible problem insofar as determining what tainted the kernel in order to cut it out and replace it.
SCOX didn't like this in the slightest. They refused to be specific because they claimed that it would invalidate their claim and leave them with no recourse. Though this was not taking to kindly by the F/OSS community but it was understandable, wherein one doesn't invalidate ones torts by giving away the evidence in this manner. So be it.
However glaring inconsistencies began to appear in SCOX' claims and contentions. All the while SCOX stock was rising. They played the industry press like a fine fiddle and the industry press bought it hook, line, and sinker. They didn't delve into the deeper questions but simply repeated SCOX' claims and essentially became a mouth piece for these idiots.
So the question arose - "what the hell is really going on here"? Speculations abound and over time it became apparent the SCOX my well be a player for a bigger entity - many saw M$ behind this. Then evidence of the PIPE deal began to come to light. A convuluted cavalcade of backroom conversations and a lot of money changing hands and all the while SCOX stock was rising.
At every turn SCOX shows that it has no conpunction whatsoever to legally and economically assualt any one or any thing that they felt would further their cause - but just what really was the crux of their jihad? Ok let's get serious here. It wasn't about being ripped off, it wasn't about securing their market channels and product line. It was about money - no real shock here. But the logic was baffling to both tech head, end-user, corporates, and financial analysts. All the while SCOX is making the rounds with the bigger players, those being for example IDG, The Yankee Group, and many others (including Harvard Business School lectures?).
But as in Germany that unquestionably stated to SCOX "put up or shut up" the time has come in America as well and we see that SCOX has little or nothing at all to present. It's not about holding your cards to up the ante. It's about holding your cards because you hand has nothing but junk and bluffing in hopes that the other guy will blink. Well IBM didn't blink - as if you would expect them to.
But what about all those poor dumb saps (bless their souls) that just wanted to invest in a company that would afford them a margin of profit on their investment? The majority of -l users don't understand the deeper issues of this technology. They see computing as a tool to use (and one that is often extremely complicated and intimidating from their point of view - I mean hell I just showed my mother the virtues of right click menus in WinXP for crying out loud).
At the start of this fiasco SCOX started at just around one dollar per share and rose to over $22/share. Not a bad investment from a strictly market perspective. But now it's dropping and at the close of business this Friday it is down to $4.754/share - ouch. This would be ok if their was any validity
Profit has nothing to do with it. The real reason MS wouldn't do this is simple: Bill Gates' ego wouldn't allow it.
By all accounts, he is a sore loser. So much of one that it's not enough that he succeed - everybody else must lose. If he can't get his way, he throws tantrums. (Read about his poker games in college.)
Profit has nothing to do with it. It's all ego.
Kerry voted for the Democrats version of the 87$billion for Iraq operations. This was significantly different from the Bush version which passed. The Democrat version paid for the money by repealing a like amount of Bush tax cuts. The Bush version that passed paid for it by deficit spending- passing along our problems to future generations- just like Bush promised he wouldn't do in the 2000 election. Certainly not Kerry's most eloquent answer, but at least he can string together a complete sentence and doesnt make up words. OT rant over.
/*\ * This is our property.\ * A proprietary comment, (c)(tm)(r)\ * We own all comments, they are all\ * written in our language, since we\ * own them all\ * Don't ever dare to steal our includes:\ */ #include
see subject
that wasnt off topic you IDIOT MODERATOR
So that hardly gets you locked up. What the law maybe in america I don't care. That is the problem of americans. I don't want them to interfere wich dutch politics and I kindly return the favor.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Wow, your grammar skills blow my mind.