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Sony Exits US Handheld Market
10999 writes "Today Brighthand reports that Sony will no longer develop and sell Clie handheld models to the United States market.
Most certainly that means no more Clies for Europe, too."
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Not enough clientele, I suppose?
Well, if they hadn't removed the Bluetooth from the TH-55, I'd have bought one. *sigh*
Now I have to wait for Palm to come up with something comparable.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
So long Sony, I won't miss the Clie because of what they did to me. I was happy to pay nearly $500 for a Clie NR70V, but when Sony lied to me and told me that one day I would be able to use a 1 gig memory stick with it, they lost me as a customer. I not only quit buying Sony PDAs, I didn't buy a Sony camera, opting for a Minolta with a standard SD card slot. Sony charged premium prices for some very nice models and they were making money on them until the memory stick debacle coupled with their crippled CF slot. I will be happy buying elsewhere from a company that keeps its promises to its customers. So don't let the Memory Stick hit you on the backside when you leave Sony!
This is the second "successful" handheld device I have seen cancelled recently -- I develop for handhelds, and we can't get the ones we've been getting (Thera) anymore. It should be no surprise that some shakedown of the myriad of devices out there would come to pass, but it does surprise me to see a company as large as Sony stop making anything.
stuff |
They mentioned several times that they want the PSP to be a multifunction device with PDA abilities, and a whole host of other abilities (MP3, Movies, GPS, etc) other than just being a dedicated game machine.
sony just didn't see the big picture, eventually the only PC people will have is a hand-held one, they could've made a killing if they just added a tv-out to their clie models, along with the ability to plug into regular size keyboards/mice, this way for the casual user, one who only reads emails, and checks news online, does reports in word, they could've provided a low-cost desktop alternative. b
For The Best Jazz/Hip-hop fusion > COlD DUCK
I chose my T665C over Palm branded hardware for a reason: So much more for the cash.
- Brilliant Color Screen
- MP3 Audio capabilities (via separate chip, which saves lots of power)
- Sound
- Small Size, light
- Great construction (alloy back)
- Pretty good package of software around it.
I've been very happy with it.
And shockingly, the nearest Palm equivilant didn't have anywhere near those specs. For more money, less of a product.
I'll miss the sony's in the market. Though I think Palm OS has caught up a bit.
Hopefully this means the existing ones will have extreme discounted prices!!
Either that or they will become rare and go up in price.
Perhaps this is all a ploy to make americas/europeans want them even more because now they cant have them, so they will start selling them to us again when we cry like little babies and say will will pay too much for them like they want.
In my recent visit to Japan, I saw loads of technology that isn't in the US yet. Why is this? Yes, I know that it is stuff that is manufacturered by Japanese companies and so it is natural that it should appear there first, but Japan seems to be the best stuff several years before the US. Is the USA not a good market for tech gadgets?
The miniature laptops I saw just rocked, and I can't believe they wouldn't sell in the US.
All of the handhelds that I have evaluated do not have a long enough battery life to be useful.
A full time radio connection (wifi is an example) requires significant power resources.
Handhelds don't have the power.
The small Sony laptops are more appropriate. They have a useable keyboard, and they almost fit in a jacket pocket
Peace
Their exit is extremely strange, but until we get more corroborating articles, I'm going to stick to that thought.
Let's keep in mind that patents are in place to keep lawyers employed and keep them litigating. -CatGrep
Funny boy
There go my plans for buying a sony pda.
Very sad really, Sony was the company that 'forced' Palmone into making more multimedia orientated pda's. I currently have a zire71 but this news might make me choose a pocket-pc as next platform. If the big guys are leaving, my next pda won't be a palm os based pda.
Do you see this as a clear sing, that Microsofts Pocket PC is slowly winning the PDA operating system war? Or is it just that Sony couldn't turn Palm OS in to the media OS it wanted? Or perhaps something else?
I recently ditched my Palm IIIxe for a Sony Ericsson T616. It isn't technically a "smartphone", but it still has a calendar, to do list, phone book (of course). And it syncs perfectly with iSync over bluetooth.
If you want to see the real future of Sony PDAs, look here.
Sony will continue to support all current customers worldwide for the life of the warranties on their handhelds.
Bear that in mind before you go hunting for a cheap Clie. If my Palm V, which is almost 6 years old, broke down I still could get it repaired by the manufacturer. But, with that wording, it's very much implied that after the warranty period has run out on the Clies sitting on retailers' shelves right now there will be little or no support from Sony for Clie owners. Caveat emptor.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
So, what is my SonyEricsson P900, chopped liver? Sure it's not a dedicated handheld, but I didn't want one. It does IR, Bluetooth, USB, Calendar, doesn't run Windows, etc.
Exiting the market, my ass! They're just going to focus on PDA/Phone unified devices.
-l
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The number of non-windows-based devices Sony has out on the market running different OSes is quite big, especially considering the user base. Ignoring the number of PS2's, look at Sony/Ericsson branded mobile phones. Now, add the upcoming PSP. There's no reason to own a "PDA" when either of these devices will be able to run circles around PalmOS devices.
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The Clie' offered more power and features than a comparable Palm, though. Which is why I bought my T615C some time back. The same feature set in a Palm would have cost me another $50-$100. I think their designs started getting kinda funky and maybe turned off some people.
The next generation mobile phones are really what killed the PDA. If you have seen the high end phones some are PDA like (Sony Ericsson P900), and even the medium range now has very good organiser and synchronisation facilities. Combine that with Java expandability and there is not much need for PDAs for most people.
Sony takes this kitchen sink approach to their portables, which is why I think the first wave of iPod competitors will fail. They jammed every conceivable feature into their handhelds, completely forgetting that the appeal of PalmOS was to "keep it simple." Memory stick, camera, bluetooth, wifi, MP3 player, etc. They're expensive too, compared to other PalmOS devices.
The iPod competitor will fail if they release it in the US. It's too big, it'll cost too much, and basically it has too many features and buttons for the US market.
When you think about it, Sony's never been into the corporate market. They're all about multimedia and entertainment, hence the upcoming PSP media handheld. PDAs have their most functional benefits in business applications. I could defnitely see them taking their Clié R&D environment and redirecting it to the market they know best: entertainment.
From Palminfocenter's market share list
Worldwide Handheld Marketshare 2003
1. palmOne 40%
2. HP 22%
3. Sony 14%
4. Dell 6%
5. Toshiba 3%
6. All Others 15%
Best Selling SKUs (Oct - Dec 2003 US Retail)
Rank Model % of Total
1. palmOne Tungsten E 19%
2. Sony Clie SJ22 13%
3. palmOne Zire 21 10%
4. palmOne Zire 71 7%
5. HP iPaq 1945 (PPC) 6%
6. palmOne Zire 6%
7. Sony Clie TJ25 6%
8. palmOne Tungsten T3 4%
9. HP iPaq 2215 (PPC) 4%
10. palmOne Zire 21 Limited Ed Bundle 3%
It's not likely they were having Problems selling them, they were the number 2 PalmOS Based PDA seller, and The Number 3 Overall. They also had the number 2 and 7 best selling PDA.
Maybe they were expecting to sell more than this, or maybe most of those sales are outside the US.
In Soviet Russia, Trojan exploits YOU!
I couldn't see the need for a handheld model since the fully functional laptop version works fine.
I use a Pocket PC (been using different ones for the past few years) but have always been impressed by Sony's innovations. If nothing else, they've provided solid competition for Microsoft. Now, it's essentially MS and a very dwindling Palm leading the PDA charge. So much for competition.
I bet the guy I rode the elevator up with this morning who was reading his new Clie instruction manual would've liked to know that yesterday.
That said, they weren't always the easiest company to work with. Often, the new models would come out so fast that we couldn't keep track of them, and a customer tech support email would be our first indication that something new was available. They had a tendency to keep certain APIs (like their camera API) private, and even their public APIs might be released to developers months after devices had shipped. I don't think a simulator for the TH55 was ever released.
But despite the problems, I'm sorry to see them go. Sony injected an energy into the Palm handheld market that I don't think can be matched by the other manufacturers.
--Stuart
Now my Sony conglomerate investment holdings are bound to SOAR. Or is that spelled SOUR?
To produce a massive amount of units in a short time is very expensive, it's better to spread it. The change of overstock diminishes too. Apple couldn't handle the load, I think they lost some customers when it was out of stock. Maybe 0.5% but that's not a good thing
Even more funny ... market in 2000 with the release of its Clit PEG-S300 handheld ..
Or am I just watching to much porn?
i think the handheld pda as we have known it has really just been a tranistional device anyway. its purpose, as history may remember it, was to bridge the gap into more versatile devices such as what mobile phones are becoming (and have become already). the major features of newer pdas are wireless networking capabilities such as bluetooth, 802.11, etc. but what about the most well-established and well-known networking capability of them all---the telephone? now that's wireless. just use that.
of course i think it's rather sad to see such a well designed line of products come to an end (i personally have a sony clie), but surely sony is aware of the larger issues. the newest coolest thing they came out with was the UX-50, which when i first looked at it, i thought of it as a sub-sub-notebook. it just runs Palm OS and you can't upgrade any of the hardware. for the cost (US$600) you could easily get a bad-ass mobile phone that does all you'd need anyway---and it's a phone.
I have owned a number of Clies and still use one as my handheld. Sony has done a spectacular job with the hardware on many of them. They also tried really hard with the software, but ultimately, they ran into too many limitations with PalmOS.
For example, Clies ship with PicselViewer, an image and PDF viewer that lets you read and view normal image and PDF files off memory sticks, and it's actually pretty fast. Clies also ship with applications that let you back up your data to external flash memory, that let you manage your files. In the latest version, they tried to revamp the aging and somewhat limited Palm PIM applications.
But doing any of this under PalmOS is really hard. PalmOS is essentially still a single-tasking OS with a quirky window system, severe limitations on memory management, little protection of applications from one another, and a lousy desktop synchronization architecture.
And things keep changing even between minor PalmOS versions in weird ways: Bluetooth support, configuration applications, datebook record formats, etc. And Sony always ended up behind Palm--for example, the T3 ships with a lot of nice functionality that didn't make it into the TH-55. It must have been a nightmare for Sony.
Ultimately, I suspect Palm was just too much of a pain for them and they didn't like playing second fiddle to Palm. I don't expect Sony to get out of the handheld market long-term, I think they'll just switch to some other platform--PocketPC, Linux, or Symbian, maybe.
I purchased Sony's first palm-based handheld, the PEG-S300, not long after it came out. It was a competitor to the Palm V, as mentioned in the article, but cost a fraction. It was small, fast, had a hi-res screen, a jog dial, and came with a nice case that is still the best I've seen for a PDA. But the interface to the sync software was clearly rushed to market absolutely sucked.
Sucks that the competition is gone -- first Handspring, now Sony. At least Palm seems to have gotten their act together on the hardware side of things.
I'm a bit torn by this but overall this is a good thing. I have had many, many Sony PDAs over the years. I used an NX70V for a long time and really enjoyed it. However, as a developer, the Sony devices were a royal pain in the ass. The UI was painful to deal with. Their OS4 devices were a disaster, again, from the independent developer POV. They did move the ball forward though. They will be missed.
Sony has made the best Palm OS Handhelds for a while. They included the Jog wheel, for example, which is something I really like for one-hand operation.
I recently purchased a Clie TJ37, and I am very very happy with it. At that price point (300 bucks) the alternative from palm didn't look too good (Zire 71?), and they still don't have the one feature I craved: 802.11b connectivity.
I hope they either reconsider or that PalmOne starts doing cool PDAs in an accesible price range. Thei high-end models are cool, but there's no chance that I'll buy a PDA for $400+...
-.
Even the article suggests that the trimming of the PDA field was not unexpected, given the flat sales. And the reason is made clear by talking to PDA shoppers or even looking at this thread: Everyone is fine with what they've got.
/. seem to be the same way. I love new tech just like anyone else, but it's a lot cheaper for me to play with the neat gizmos seperately, and not have my mishaps affect my PDA. Any other thoughts?
I'd be freaking lost without my PDA. I used a Palm 3 that I was given for a little while, then bought the Visor Deluxe when it came out, and used it until just recently. When it finally died (backlight failed) I dropped $90 on a Clie SJ-22. It's a great little PDA with a very bright white backlight that's on by default, 16meg memory, reads memory sticks, etc. I'll use it until it dies some horriffic death (hopefully in a few years) and get whatever is simple, cheap, highly-reviewed and well-supported.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that people use these things primarily for their original purpose: to *organise things.* The vast majority of PDA users might *like* color screens, mp3 playback, cameras, etc. But when they get to talking about it, you soon understand that they still mostly just want it to keep their lives in order. It's interesting that even many one-percenters on
I picked up two PEG-TG50 handhelds after my Palm IIIxe and Handspring were getting long in the tooth. The features of the TG-50 were enough of an incentive for me to get one. They'll be missed, as the Palm PDA units lag behind.
:-P
Of course I'l sure this also means that they won't release the API for the Palm OS5 devices for getting sound working properly on these devices, now will it?
I own three MagicCap based PDAs. Two of them, the PIC-1000 and the PIC-2000A, were manufactured by Sony. Neither of them has been made or supported for many years.
The worrisome thing: after Sony bailed, pretty much everyone else using the MagicCap OS did too. Today, you can't get the OS at all anymore, and you can't even really get a dev environment for it. Hopefully, PalmOS can hang on.
If you convert the price in Yen to USD, many of these products would not sell in the US.
Japanese people are willing to pay a premium for small/lightweight products. Americans are not as willing. Throughout all of Asia/Pacific, people use a combination of mass transit and walking. When I visited Hong Kong, my colleagues were astounded at the 40lb. bag I carried -- a big IBM Thinkpad and every accessory that I might possibly need. Imagine a computer room in a bag. It was somewhat inconvenient to take this heavy computer bag in and out of cabs and the subway, but I did it. Months later, the same people visited me in the US. I said, "Now I can show you why my computer bag is not so crazy." We walked out of my office, down a flight of stairs, and 50 feet to my car, where I popped the trunk and dropped the bag right in. Size and weight of the computer are meaningless because I seldom carry it for more than 2 minutes at a time.
I won't attempt to speak for everyone, but I want gizmos with full features, durability, and low price. Size and weight are secondary. If I lived in Asia, my priorities would be different.
Ahh the logic of the irrational. Ha, ha ha (evil Mandar laugh)-not buying from the company will only make them stronger -you fool. All companies are equal -ha, ha ha. Big companies never fail - ha, ha ha.
Ahh, the power of cheese (when it's your brain!)
I've got an SJ-33, and I consider it one of the best peices of hardware I've ever had. It's great. Compliments the eMac perfectly. So I'm going to have to shop around for a new vendor now. The last time I looked at the Palms they were a bit fragile feeling..
I kinda saw this coming in the back of my mind though. Look at the last lineup, they've actually subtracted features (like the MP3 player) from the newer models that I consider to be in the same class as the SJ.
They've seemingly fixed that now with a good looking feature rich TJ37, but the 27's were sorta half-arsed.
And I knew something was terribly wrong with the whole line when I saw the UX50. That thing just defies everything about what makes PalmOS functional.
-- The unsig...
Keep in mind that PalmSource recently introduce a radically different operating system called Cobalt. I wouldn't be suprised if Sony is just talking some extra time to milk the new OS for all it's worth. Cobalt has a lot of new features for multimedia and wireless that should be right up Sony's alley. Also remember that the split between PalmOne and PalmSource was supposed to benifit Sony, so I doubt that Sony is ready to jump ship on PalmSource quite yet.
I didn't want a Palm because I wanted a more functional mini-computer. I own a Zaurus SL-5500 and was set to buy a SL-6000 except for two problems. Price and the lack of Bluetooth. I would have still gotten one at that outrageous price ($700) if it had Bluetooth. Chances are - if I am in range of Wifi, I have my laptop. I need a PDA when I'm not near Wifi and want to access the net over GPRS cell phone - hence the need for Bluetooth.
Further, the relatively lackluster open source-ness of the project and Sharp's seemlingly lack of interest (and the new horrible contacts APIs) seem to seal its fate... I hate it, but only Microsoft would probably have the staying power in the long term.
The PSP is going to be the Game Gear all over again. Size and battery life will kill it.
If Sony took down their Clie operations in order not to "compete with PSP," that only means in two years they'll be out two revenue streams.
Jon Acheson
All opinions expressed herein are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled.
...the article doesn't mention that at all.
leave out the unsupported editorializing.
Get over it.
More importantly, I find that Japanese gadgets, particularly computer gadgets are clever, but always seem to miss the mark.
I.E.:
The desktop replacement that lacks a port replicator
The portable unit that lacks an optical drive
The portable unit that has 2 hour battery life
Keyboards too small
Refusal to develop newer drivers
Inability to repair (try getting a Sony fixed people, you'll rue the day you bought one)
Clever, useless features
Under developed technology
Expensive prices
I have a Clie UX-50 which looks good on paper, but it lacks the ability to force the output to portrait. Its so fundamental that its bugs me I didn't spend more than an hour playing with it before I bought it. It didn't sync with Office 2003 (which was out when the UX50 was released), and Sony refused to acknowledge a problem existed until they grudgingly came up with a patch 6 months later.
Support from sony? Not one bit. People generally buy Sony computer equipment exactly one time, based on what I've read.
Sony isn't unique either.
You don't see this stuff in US markets because people won't buy it. People in general are less worried about the Gee-whiz factor (Apple already has those people) and more about "does it work for what I want to do".
Sadly, Japanese-market PC's do not fit that criteria, because the Japanese treat computers as another piece of consumer electronic gear that people will throw out in 18 months anyway. Its out the door and they don't want to hear from you again.
That doesn't work in the US for computer equipment. Apple comes out with upgrades constantly for their stuff. They'll take stuff back, they make sure the consumer is happy. Compare that with any japanese brand.
It was stylish, being one of the very first true portables, drew lots of looks (almost nobody had one) - isn't that what mobiles should do - look at all the whiz bang bells and whistles they have now. And it was hackable via they keypad and the access codes.
Turn it on and dial, none of this boot OS advertise Verizon, think for a minute read the phonebook crap with these new fangled phones.
You could even use it for self defense, sure it cost over $2000 for the phone and the car adapter kit, but so what, you could look like Gordon Gekko.
And try writing your phone number down for a girl on your PDA (yeah I know it's slashdot, but some of you may attempt it), give me my post-its and my brick anyday.
You prolly meant AXIM and SDIO. Is there one that has CF?! Maybe an add-on board for CF?
Which distro does Linus use?
I saw this story on Brighthand this morning and was about to submit it to slashdot, but I decided to check my facts first.
BargainPDA says "Sony has informed us that they will not release any new Clie PDAs this year in the US."
They had a conference call with Sony last week, and Sony made is abundantly clear that this is just a regrouping, they will NOT be exiting the market.
You can probably expect for Sony's next US model to be released with a bang. 'After an x-month hiatus, Sony has decided to revolutionize the PDA landscape again!' or something.
But again! SONY IS NOT EXITING THE MARKET! NOTHING TO SEE HERE! MOVE ALONG!
If this doesn't get me some karma, nothing will :-\
RM-TP504
which they discontinued in 2003? and replaced with:
RM-TP1
These were used on the ES line of stereos and amps.
The next pasture is always greener
This Pisses me off! I like the CLIE much better than Palm's own models. They're cheaper and better!
Snarl!!! Argh!!!
-- I am. Therefore, I think!
wait wait wait - you're on to something, but you're missing the A1 numero uno priority for Sony to do this. Let's follow the train of the latest news in portable hardware, shall we?
Sony wants to claim a huge stake in the handheld gaming market, and they know that the opening sales of the PSP will be pretty indicative of how the console will do down the line. Big launch will mean big boost in reputation, and then more third parties to develop for the PSP, more sales, yadda yadda.
However, this article points to a huge possible dent in all systems portable this year due to a tighter supply of LCD screens. the linked article talks about Nintendo, I know, but it still drives the point home: Sony has to prioritize its allocation of LCDs, and it has to do so ASAP.
Pretty big judgment call on Sony's part to give up a decent PDA marketshare in order to go full-force on the PSP. But, then again, considering how much $ they can pull not only with PSP sales, but also games, music and movies (many of which will come directly from Sony studios/records/etc), it seems like Sony has quite a forward-looking financial plan, and this move to re-allocate LCDs is proof positive of such forward-looking. Even if the additional movie/music stuff doesn't lift off in the States, Europe and Japan are ripe for such sales, so don't scoff at that notion too quickly.
where are y'all?
sony pda's were quite good too...
this is clearly a response to the lcd shortage. the psp is expected to sell 3 million units worldwide by march 2005. all those screens have to come from somewhere. the playstation brand is way more important to sony then the clie. this is a bold move, and shows how much sony wants to succeed in the handheld gaming market.
Much better info .... thanks!
All I want a windows CE powered pocket PC for is .. and to play Doom while on the move ..
to play MP3's surf the internet on the move..check e-mails - listening to streaming music
cos nothing could be cooler than that. give me that in a teeny box - and I couldn't be happier.
personally.
The test is always DOOM compatiblity.
If it can play DOOM, it rules.
if it can't - it sucks.
End of story.
I'm sooo old school it's stupid.
- I bought a TI Avigo, shortly afterwards TI pronounced the product dead
- Then I bought a Psion 5MX Pro. Shortly afterwards, Psion stopped producing consumer PDAs
- Just this weekend I ordered a TH55 - now I hear this!!
What the *"$% is wrong with my timing?
I own a TJ-37, and it has been one the most useful items I've had for travel. An affordable device with a camera good enough to take pictures to post on the web and built-in wifi is a really amazing accomplishment. Plus with a decent sized memory stick the device doubles as an MP3 player as well.
I for one am sorry to see Sony exit the handheld market.
Overrated Moderation: This posts sucks... because.
Maybe for you a PDA is a glorified address book, but some people actually use them for something at work. For example, I use mine to play solitaire at meetings while looking like I'm taking notes. That, and to sync with Outlook to be reminded of when those meetings are. Isn't this what everyone uses PDAs for???
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
There's still a significant market out there for people who don't want the do-everything phone. I bought a Clie TJ-25 because it is a great book reader, calendar, and electronic notepad. And it was cheap--I bought just the features I wanted (no MP3 player, camera, etc.)
It is a mistake to assume that everyone wants a phone-pda-camera-mp3 player-fm radio-refrigerator. (Well, not refrigerator.) Too much integration leads to unused features (==bloat) and wasted money. How many people buy Microsoft Office just to use Word? You'd be surprised.
http://www.dynamism.com/u101/index.shtml
Unfortunately not available in North America directly from Sony. I believe it's even hard to find in the Japanese market, which is the only place sony sells it. That's where they're moving all the PDA's too.
I believe they've looked into the PDA's and smaller computers in North America, and the average computer user just doesn't want them. They find the keyboards too small for our fat North American fingers. The general public doesn't seem to be as big on tiny computers.
Unfortunate, because I would love more products like the u101 to flood the market over here.
*A Life Without Compromise*
Good try but the PSP specs called for an OLED - the Clies had no plan to move to OLED any time soon.
Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny
I just don't get the whole PDA phone thing
Why carry (and recharge every night) two pocket-size electronic devices when you can carry just a single one that does both?
The way I see it, if you're carrying a PDA around all the time anyway, there's no reason it shouldn't be able to serve as your cell phone also. Yes, it is awkward to hold a big flat brick of a PDA up to your ear, but that problem's resolved easily enough with a $9 hands-free earpiece.
> Now, who is gonna come up with this beauty ?
Well, not you.
The Zaurus SL-6000 isn't just the *closest* thing, it IS the thing. It has all the hardware anyone could want.
The USB host means you can attach any USB keyboard. (On the SL-6000W, you can attach any Bluetooth keyboard.)
The CFXGA card gives TV out, although the framerate is too slow.
The screen resolution is phenomenal! 640x480 on a 4" diagonal, plus it's transflective, so viewable under the widest range of conditions.
So what is lacking? The PIM applications? I don't think so. You buy piece-of-shit Windows machines without any PIMS or even a decent goddamned operating system. No, it's not the PIMs. Slashdot whiners would find something to complain about if it had PIMs: It's too rectangular, it exists at all, it costs epsilon too much, no matter how little it costs! Waah!
the memory stick pro is a crippled stick... you can't bring it to a photo lab and have it printed... you have to use your computer as a middleman, which costs another $0.30US, which is about as much as one print from it...
It sounds like you might want a Zaurus.
Check out my U101 on Linux page.
I haven't updated it in a while (I was waiting for Fedora Core 2, and I've been really busy), but it's got a lot of very detailed information, including some nice photos.
This really sucks...
:P)
After the Palm V, Sony were bitch-slapping Palm left, right and center until they got their act together and made the T|3, so it's really dissapointing to hear they want to throw in the towel.
Almost all the modern innovations in PalmOS have been directly or indirectly the result of Sony.
Palm added 8-bit colour and later the rotating screen, 5-way pad, bluetooth (I think) and the sliding hatch thingy.
Sony made HiRes and HiRes+, the Virtual Graffiti area, MIDI playback support, MP3 and WAV playback support, standardised VFS support, USB sync support, cameras, voice recording, graphics acceleration APIs, WiFi networking support, enhanced IR support, jog dial, multiple text entry options... you get the idea.
Palm's hardware was always solid and stable, but Sony were the innovators (Although sometimes they'd take it a bit too far...
I really hope they come back. The TH55/E1 has been one of the hardest-to-get PDA's I've ever bought because of the number of people that wanted one, so clearly there is still a market for them.
I could never go back to Palm because their PDA's are just so... *dull* compared to Sony's...
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Comment removed based on user account deletion
I got the SL-6000L despite lack of Bluetooth and have wifi in most places I go, including places that are reputedly free of wifi.
What's especially important to me is that I often want a COMPUTER (not a pda) when it's inconvenient to sit down. Whether I have my laptop or not, having the SL-6000L hanging around my neck on a camera strap is vastly more convenient.
While I don't have a GPS, I use a robust technology called "street signs" and a web browser to locate services in my area. local.google.com, for instance, is a good way to do this.
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wrong.h tml
http://psp.ign.com/articles/513/513175p1.
16:9-format widescreen TFT LCD (4.3", 480x272 pixels, 24-bit full color)
Where the market will really settle on is having a device for connectivity, and a seperate device for input and enahnced display.
The cell phone is evolving towards the connectivity device (note they get smaller and smaller, which means they become worse and worse for display and input) while the PDA will evolve to rely on the presence of a connectivity device for, well, connectivity - but it will be the larger dive with a clearer screen and easier input.
A primitve version of this setup today would be a cell phone with bluetooth and data service, and a PDA with bluetooth like the Tungsten T3.
The real transitional devices are things like Blackberries that try to do everything in one - like radio toasters of yesteryear they'll decline once the other devices get more refined.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Like this?
Flipstart PC
Paul Allen's heading that way. I want one of these when they ship...
Speaking of which, does anyone know a good PDA that takes AAA or other standard-sized batteries instead of using a recharger? I want to be able to use off-the-shelf batteries for practical reasons, even if I have to settle for a b&w screen or slower processor. I primarily use my PDA for PIM and ebook type stuff, so I don't need too much power.
Sony used to have its lowest-end model do that, but I think it's gone out of production. That and the Handspring visors are the only PDAs I know of that take AAA. Anyone know of any others?
Anyway I scoured around the shop and came across the Clie TJ25 - what a beauty! This was the first PDA I had seen (in the sub $200 price range) with a metal shell and beautiful color screen! I was a little hesitant about the 'memory stick' (I prefer more 'open' technologies like SD or CF), yet I found some cheap 128 MB sticks at tigerdirect (which were actually lower in cost per MB than SD/CF).
Anyway, I was really hoping to upgrade in a year or so to a new wireless/camera/MP3 Clie. Now I guess it will happen sooner than later because of the price drops as stores dump their Clie inventory. However it will be a sad day when the Clie is removed from the PDA lineup - one less great choice for those choosing palm! I just really hope we don't see Sony jump ship to the ms wince camp in a year or two!
The fans have figured it out for them. (Haven't tried it myself.)
P.S. The TH55 has WiFi, which is killing off bluetooth anyways. (Flamesuit ON)
must be a nintendo fanbot. get your facts right.
Even without the sales slump, this might have happened anyway. I remember reading an article a year ago where one of the Sony bigwigs was quoted as saying in the long term he wantd to own all of the Palm OS, or he didn't want to be involved in the market.
Just come out with a Cell-phone / PDA / Video Cam / MP3 / GPS / Triquarter / Gameboy and be done with it already!
Look at the numbers again. HP/Comaq is #2, they are strictly PocketPC. If you add up all PocketPC, Microsoft owns 40% of the market, which is tied with PalmOS. If you look at marketshare trends, PocketPC has been gaining, PalmOS has been losing. Not sure what numbers you've been looking at. The bigger question that has been brought up is the future of the PDA market.
We expect a manufacturer to stand behind their products.
We must be barbarians.
The personal server has been talked about for over a year without seeming to get any closer to a buyable product. It's a good idea, full of geek appeal. I'd buy one in a hot minute. But nobody seems to even be designing, much less bringing one to market. I haven't seen even so much as a proff-of-concept model.
(I'd be happy to be proven wrong about this, especially if the proof is a 'buy-it-now' link)
Mail? Put "slashdot" in the subject to pass the spam filters.
http://www.flipstartpc.com That's all I have to say. Once those hit the market, wow... I'll be able to leave my laptop at home, and get rid of my PDA :-D
-Joshua
these were "projected specs" - I was @ E3 - it was to be OLED like the parent suggested.
From the page quoted above:
*NOTE - Exact details of this spec list may still subject to change. These specs are accurate up through the E3 Conference release, 05-11-2004
Sony said themselves all the info released in the press was VERY speculative, evn stuff heard at E3. They were pushing for OLED VERY hard due to the battery consumption of LCDs and if you read the spec says (TARGET) in a lot of places.
Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny
Sure, but most people already carry a mobile phone and few of them will be happy to carry a second device. Besides which, phones can seem much cheaper than PDAs due to an up-front subsidy and recouping of costs through inflated monthly charges. The market for PDAs has always been small by comparison to the market for phones, and I suspect it's only going to shrink now that the core PDA functions are common in phones.
I just about buy the argument about PDAs being large etc, but the Treo is a happy medium for many people - its screen is big enough to be usable, and has good colour, but the whole thing is nicely pocketable and fits your hand really well. You can use it as a phone without a headset (I never use my headset), and its battery easily lasts a full day, even if you are in poor coverage.
Now if they could get out of the computer biz altogether and stick to TVs and walkmans, that would make my day!
I bought a Zaurus sl-c760 about a year ago from Dynamism. I was pretty happy with it for a while, but one day it stopped working(stopped charging). Since I live in Norway it was too much bother doing the warranty thing, and I was suspecting the problem was the 110V adapter. At about the same time, the Clie UX-50 came out. I bought it because of the integrated WIFI and Bluetooth (and but that wasn't important). Have been using it for awhile now and been decently happy with it. Now I am visiting the US, and I brought the Zaurus to see if it would charge. Sure enough, it works. I have been shocked at how much better the screen is, and how much more comfortable it is to use. As a conclusion, I think the Clie is good, but it is a really focused PDA, while the Zaurus is a much more open-ended palmtop computer. I like having linux on the Zaurus, and I will hopefully settle on the 6000 (because of WIFI and BT) or whatever its called when I can get my hands on it.
-TN
...was cheap plastic crap. Aside from that, I liked it. On the other hand, my new Palm Tungsten C is also cheap plastic crap. What the heck happened to the fantastic case of my Palm V?!?!?
I am not left-handed, either!
Looks cool... till you see it has YaSQTK (sorta rhymes with "spastic") -Yet another Stupid Qwerty Thumb Keyboard. For crying out loud - if you have to require a new way to type (with thumbs), why not be just a bit more innovative than the rest of the lemmings, and put the keys in a Dvoarak layout?
Fools....
The nice thing about that device, is while yes, you have the YaSQTK, you also have the option of plugging in a full size standard USB keyboard, and mouse, and using it just like a laptop. And if i'm not mistaken, it's also got the video port on it, so you can plug a monitor into it and use it just like a laptop (hopefully, i'm still talking about the same device). What's your beef with Qwerty Thumb keyboards anyway? I find them very easy to use (as long as they're laid out correctly (unlike the Sony Clie, IMO).
-Joshua
In case anyone follows up on my follow-up: Although I'm a QWERTY touch typist on regular keyboards (little did I realize how useful that old high school summer typing class back in the days before personal computers would be...), I am NOT, nor can I be on a thumb-operated keyboard. So why not lay out the keys such that the most commonly used ones are all one row? I.E.: The Dvorak layout with all the vowels together on the left, and most-used consonants on the right. That should be even quicker for thumb typing I would think. Remember, QWERTY was supposedly designed to slow down typists who were too fast for the early mechanical typewriters, causing the mechanism to jam frequently (ever hit a bunch of keys on one of those beasts all at once to see the strike bars "rise up and jam"? ;-).
As I recall this difference in layout allows Dvorak typists to achieve typing speeds at least an order of magnitude greater than QWERTY typists. It stands to reason that this would apply to thumb keyboards (maybe more so).
Oh well, while I tilt at that windmill, I will stick with my Jornada 728 and its semi touch-typeable keyboard (can't place all fingers at rest on keys at once, but they can hover at the ready, and they "know" where to go) - much more comfortable than the Zaurus SL-5600 I tried for a week or so - Linux just was not enough incentive to overcome the awkward ergonomics of its recessed QWERTY thumb keyboard, and oddly bulging shape (to accomodate a bigger battery it seems).
YaSQTK hater.