Slashdot Mirror
Mac OS X "Tiger" Server Previewed
It also adds a Jabber server that provides the option of serving iChat. SSL/TLS and Kerberos can be added for security. A single Tiger iChat client can have chats running on multiple servers, so a user can be on the main iChat server, while having private chats on a company server. Because it is Jabber, non-iChat (and non-AIM) clients can participate too.
Tiger Server also works to make network setup even easier with Internet Gateway Setup Assistant. In Panther Server, setting up a network with DNS, DHCP, NAT, firewall, and port mapping was easier than most other platforms, but still required a good deal of manual configuration, and separate configuration of each service. The Setup Assistant will provide single-button setup of it all.
A Software Update Server can cache and control Apple software updates. So once you're satisfied that the new OS update won't delete home folders, you can OK it for your users to download; and they won't take up your Internet bandwidth, because the server cached it.
Mobile Home Directories allows a mobile user to sync his home directory with a central server, backing it up and allowing an admin to manage it.
A new Windows migration tool will allow Windows admins to migrate from Windows-based servers. Tiger Server can act as a Primary Domain Controller for a Windows network, and the tool will migrate user and group account from an existing Windows PDC into Open Directory 2 and Samba 3.
Tiger Server will retain the pricing structure of the previous versions: $500 for the 10-client edition and $1000 for the unlimited client edition (the number of clients referring only to simultaneous file sharing clients).
Now shut up or I will Nick Berg you!
Tired of Apple Fanboys? Use the Apple Fanboy List!
If they included a 'Widget' on the 'Dashboard' to 'massage' my 'nuts' on this hot summer day.
Although I suppose there is more info.
[ Monday is a terrible way to spend one seventh of your life. ]
sewiouswy
I find it interesting (and cool) that Apple seems to be throwing their weight behind Jabber.
But one question I have is this: What market is currently being targetted by the OS X Servers? I see some posts on all the general email lists I am on (PostgreSQL anyway), but not too many, leading me to conclude it is a niche market. Any thoughts?
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
THE POOR GAL!!11` SOOO HUNGERY!1
Duplicate. Anyways: I like how it looks, but it seems to be maybe getting a bit bloated? I mean... I guess maybe they can pull it off (OSX is so damn smooth!), but still.... WAY too many things crammed onto my screen = bad.
Is it just me, or was the WWDC disappointing as a whole.
With the releases leading up to it, I thought Apple had some killer stuff in store...but there wasn't as much as expected.
BTW, Where was the announcement of a 60gig ipod range? I've been waiting for that since I heard about Apple ordering the drives!
To further refine this explanation, the licensing is based on the number of AFP (Apple's filesharing protocol) connections. Unlimited web, ftp, and in previous versions unlimited windows SMB connections. I haven't noticed if this changes with 10.4.
Is it just me or are we getting too deep into the whole blog thing? It's just like a personal site with news, what's the big deal with it anywhoo? I mean google even has a blog now. And why is it people want things already written for them, like PHPnuke, why can't people just make things on their own from scratch (like I do, see my site), and try to make somthing unique and stand out from everyone else. It seems everyone is just getting more and more uniform, using templates and cookie cutters nowdays.
Sig: I stole this sig.
Jaguar, Panther, Tiger, etc
How many felines are left? Even including "cat" and others, they are bound to run out, aren't they?
Maybe for OS 11 (OS X1?) they will start doing canines or something... Wolf, Coyote, Bear?
Robert Bindler
A Computer Science student's views on technology.
The previous post had some threads about this but not primarily about 10.4 Server. Very cool things in there.
got my mother-in-law to upgrade her Macs to Panther last week!
:-)
Macs rock when someone else is paying the bill
Si vis pacem, para bellum! For evil to succeed good men need only do nothing!
Did you catch the first few words of the blurb? "Remaining unmentioned".
As much as I'd love to jump on the "dupe" bandwagon, the previous slashdot article did not mention these Tiger 'server' updates (comments notwithstanding.)
Thanks for the update.
San Francisco, California - Just three days after being the first in the world to leak photos of Apple's upcoming revision to MacOS X, version 10.4, Steve Jobs announced to the world facts about the new Operating System consistent with information leaked by elite GNAA operator Gary Niger and prospective member Ron Delsner.
"We've pulled it off!", noted Niger during Jobs' announcement at Apple's Worldwide Developers Conference. "The GNAA plan was clever from the start with this one I think. When we received our leaked copy of the OS, we knew that by releasing only partial information and some screenshots, the association people would make with the GNAA would lead them to believe the screenshots were fake. Now that Steve 'Rim' Jobs has verified everything we leaked, we have managed to fool the entire Mac community. In essense, a few hundred thousand people have been trolled, a few hundred thousand people have lost. Though I do wish they have a nice day"
"I don't think it could have worked out any better; Every single one of the features shown in our screenshots, particularly Dashboard, which everybody called as fake, was demoed by Jobs. This is my revenge for being beat up on the rent", quoted Ron Delsner on being approached by reporters. "I've been wanting to join the Gay Nigger Association of America for quite some time, and knew that I help pull off something big if they were to let me in."
Delsner was right, as upon hearing this, Gary Niger immediately produced a vial of what he called the "Holy Gay Nigger Seed" from his front pocket, and asked Ron to kneel, at which time the Seed was poured upon Ron's head, making him an official member of the GNAA. Noticing the television cameras present in the press room, Gary cited that this was in fact the first televised induction of a member into the GNAA.
"But back to the troll", Niger said quickly after. "I had a sneaking suspicion that the homosexual caucasians of the Mac community would feel threatened by the GNAA's massive nigger cocks and immediately cast doubts upon any screenshots we produced for them. I saw this as an opportunity to troll hundreds of thousands of people. It just goes to show that GNAA is greater than j00, and that fristage postage is mine."
And Niger certainly did not fail it, as can be seen from the following excerpts taken from various Internet website's covering the leak:
ThinkSecret.com - "In fact, it was the source that led many users to call the shots fake; the information in that story, as well as this one, was provided by Gary Niger and Ron Delsner of the GNAA, an organization that deals in crapfloods and Slashdot trolling."
AppleInsider.com - "Enjoy the photoshop work. I seriously don't think Apple would be so crazy to use those jargons."
MacRumors.com - "Hmm... Information by "Gary Niger" of GNAA. Sounds too stupid to be true. And that dashboard thing? Hogwash me thinks ..."
MacRumors.com - "I immediately thought of them when I saw "GNAA". Anyone who reads Slashdot would be familiar with them - they put big spam posts everywhere. Yes, and it doesn't surprise me. I don't think the screenshots are real (at least not the Dashboard ones), but I have no trouble believing the PDF."
Kim Kap Sol on AppleInsider.com said "I can guarantee those are fake." He then continued by saying "Hello I R Korea KEKEKEKE OMG ZERG RUSH GOGOGOGO ^_^"
Gary's reply to this was "Way to make a complete idiot of yourself you dog-eating douchebag."
Steve Jobs was unavailable for comment immediately following the keynote address, though WWDC attendee and GNAA member Porfa noticed "A cute wiggle in Jobs' ass as he walked away."
About Apple
Apple Computer is the creator of the Macintosh, popularly known as the "gay computer". 87% of GNAA members are Mac users. Founded in 1974 by Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak, Apple was nearly out of business in the mid 90's, when Jobs was re
All normal people must exit NOW! Thank you.
Since when was a bear a canine? ^_^
jabber this fucker. that shit sucks dick. and also, all this fucking gay shit where nothing is encrypted. any client and middle-server that allows plain text messaging sucks cock. japper included. only GAIM-encyption plugin does this shit right so FUCK YOU, fuck apple and FUCK jabber.
OS X server sucks fucking cock. if you dont relize this, eat shit and fuck you. fuck you. fuck xserve, long live opteron fucker face.
FUCK.
My thougts are I hate you. FUCKER!.
If a cogent, logical argument entered Einhverfr the fucking cunt's brain, no doubt a concussion would result. Einhverfr the
fucking cunt's morals are unhealthy and lacking in purpose. But the problems with Einhverfr the fucking cunt's taradiddles
don't end there. I doubt we could beat this into Einhverfr the fucking cunt's head, but in a recent essay, Einhverfr the
fucking cunt stated that freedom must be abolished in order for people to be more secure and comfortable. Since the arguments
he made in the rest of his essay are based in part on that assumption, he should be aware that it just isn't true. Not only
that, but if he thinks that he can make me sink into a miasma of doubt and alienation, then he's barking up the wrong tree. He
has found a way to avoid compliance with government regulations, circumvent any further litigation, and ruin my entire day --
all by trumping up a phony emergency. You may find it amusing or even titillating to read about Einhverfr the fucking cunt's
warnings, but they're not amusing to me. They're deeply troubling.
In any case, some people think it's a bit extreme of me to address the real issues faced by mankind -- a bit over the top,
perhaps. Well, what I ought to remind such people is that the point at which you discover that Einhverfr the fucking cunt is
bound to have a rude awakening when he finally realizes how few people approve of his postmodernist anecdotes is not only a
moment of disenchantment. It is a moment of resolve, a determination that it is pointless to fret about the damage already
caused by his stupid, audacious reports. The past cannot be changed. We must cope with the present if we hope to affect our
future and protect little children from myopic backstabbers like him. Einhverfr the fucking cunt's accomplices say, "His
practices prevent smallpox." Yes, I'm afraid they really do talk like that. It's the only way for them to conceal that
Einhverfr the fucking cunt maintains that he can impede the free flow of information and get away with it. This is hardly the
case. Rather, there is growing evidence that says, to the contrary, that it's really hard to take someone as neo-stubborn as
Einhverfr the fucking cunt very seriously. That's clear. But I indisputably feel that Einhverfr the fucking cunt has insulted
everyone with even the slightest moral commitment. He obviously has none, or he wouldn't disguise the complexity of color, the
brutality of class, and the importance of religion and sexual identity in the construction and practice of defeatism. Plainly
stated, Einhverfr the fucking cunt's proxies often reverse the normal process of interpretation. That is, they value the
unsaid over the said, the obscure over the clear.
Lion, bobcat, puma, cougar, cheetah, lynx, ocelot... Canines could be more limited. I don't think they'll want to name one "dog" (like they haven't named one just "cat") but Wolf, Coyote, Fox, etc sound nice (although dingo and hyena don't sound so good for OS names). And with canines, they could use dog breeds. Akita, Husky, Malamut, German Shepherd, Labrador, Retriever, Terrier, Hound, Spaniel, etc etc etc
Go hug some trees.
Namaste
Can I migrate Exchange onto OSX Server? oh please god, please Mr Jobs
There's a company that claims to be able to migrate Exchange to Linux or an OS X server in few easy clicks. However they don't seem to want my business since they won't respond on their own forums and emails to every address of theirs I could find remain unanswered after a month.
This guy is way out there
Solaris is real, OS X server is fake.
Fuck you.
Solaris has fs snapshots.
Solaris has a working logging filesystem.
Solaris has a working useable dump.
Solaris has a far more scaleable kernel.
Solaris is supported properly.
Solaris' management tools are not in place of a command line interface.
Solaris is more or less a NetApp if you want to be, with real NFS, SMB, etc. Apple is shit.
You are a fucking bloated fat disgusting fool if you use OS X server. Die.
Do we really need another thing Apple got pwned in? Linux has the stability down Apple, we don't need you.
Now is your chance to really know me. I'm going to let you in on my personal life, and the secret of how Timothy, Rob, Jeff, and I all "came" together.
I remember that autumn day so well. It was in our dorm room at Hope College, in Holland, Michigan. Timothy stood there by the bathroom sink, totally naked and shaving his face. He didn't recoil when I went into the bathroom which we also shared with Rob and Jeff--the guys next door.
Timothy and I had been roommates for almost three months now and gotten used to seeing each other strip down, dress, and even "hard".
"Hey, Michael" he said.
I had gotten the chance to look Timothy over a few times. But for some reason that evening I just stood there looking at his scraggly unkempt hair, his bare back, his flabby back muscles flowing down into the lumpy mounds of cellulite which composed his saggy buttocks and thick thighs.
Despite his flab, the sexy swastika tattoo on Timothy's right butt cheek gave him an air of hunky manliness.
"Oh I'm sorry, Timothy" I said without him saying anything despite the fact I had been standing there looking at him.
"I was just ..." he turned and smiled through the shaving cream. "it's OK ... I look at you too, Michael" he said.
I didn't know what to say then. I just moved next to him at the sink and stripped off my shirt to wash.
"Got a hot night tonight, Michael?" he asked.
"Naw just thought I'd go for a swim and pizza later. How 'bout you, Timothy?"
"You keep swimming, Michael, and that hot ass of yours will be the talk of the dorm" he said as he patted my butt. He left his hand there and stroked one ass-cheek a bit.
"You keep doing that and you won't be going anywhere, Timothy" I said half joking. My cock had already began to turn my boxer shorts into a small tent.
He didn't move his hand at all. In fact his fingers moved under the boxers and he stroked bare skin.
Timothy said, "Shit, Michael, I'm getting you hard".
"Yea you get it too hard and you'll have to find a way to get it down again" I said spreading the shaving cream on my face.
His fingers moved between my ass-cheeks and stroked. It felt good ... and then he suddenly stopped.
"Can't now ... maybe when I get back. Will you still
be up then, Mikey?"
His hand had moved to my tented crotch and he gently felt my boner when he asked.
"Not if you keep doing that, Timothy"
We joked around like that often of course. But that evening his attention was more then the usual goosing or ass grabbing.
I swam hard laps so my effort and the water would make my cock shrink. But my head was full of the memories of his petting as well as his naked body.
I knew that after my pizza and maybe a beer, I'd be in my bed jacking off as many times as I could before he got back to the room.
I was mid-way through my second go round when the door opened. He looked at me and smiled.
"I hoped you'd be waiting, Michael" he said as he stripped off his shirt and jeans. We didn't speak. Timothy moved to my bed and pulled my covers off.
Timothy pushed my hands over my head and to the bed pipe. I held them as he lifted my legs and curled my body over so his fingers, lips and tongue could take total control of my body.
I closed my eyes and swooned as the sensations I had only fantasized about made me shiver and shake. Timothy's fingers stroked the lips of my ass then moved inside to find my prostate and stroked that bringing me to the point of orgasm. The sperm splattered on my face, chest, and stomach.
But he wasn't through and his cock moved into my ass before it could recover and close tight after the orgasm. It hurt and made me beg him to stop. "Shut up Mic
Does the author mean a NT4 style PDC or an Active Directory Domain Controller? My guess is NT4 PDC. However, if it is a Windows 2003 Native Mode compatible Domain Controller/Global Catalog, WOW! If it is NT4 PDC, yawn. Not too many folks are running those in the Enterprise, however, I do see the benefit of creating a migration path from Windows to Mac for old, small NT4 networks.
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
Documentation. OS X Server 10.3 ("Panther Server") is nice, but there are just too many areas that are poorly documented. My setup time would have been a quarter what it was if they had really excellent documentation. It's surprising, because Apple's docs on the consumer side are quite good. A lot of Apple's market is relatively inexperienced admins in SOHO or educational settings, and more HOWTO-type documentation would be wonderful.
.INI files show up in weird places in a user's roaming profile--having one of these suckers pop up upon login every time a user logs in is annoying. (This happens because SAMBA does not store the "Invisible System File" windows file attribute that would keep these files from being visible. There's a work-around but it's ugly and only partially effective). Also, more GUI-based control of security for Windows file sharing would be good--I don't want to have to dig into the bowels of samba just to learn how to disable LANMAN passwords.
VPN setup. This one needs some serious help. I (and a lot of other people on Apple's OS X Server Discussion Board) have had a great deal of difficulty getting PPTP working in Panther Server. I also managed to stump Apple's Premium support with a problem with L2TP. Still waiting to hear back, more than a week later.
Firewall setup. The Panther Server GUI interface for setting up firewalls is somewhat broken. Server Admin times out on trying to load mildly complicated rule-sets (say, a group of twelve IP ranges with 15 ports open). The default configuration doesn't make use of ipfw's stateful capabilities, and doesn't block UDP packets. They could really have a better interface and a better default ruleset, or at least an option to set up some stateful rules via the GUI. The setup they have for XML editing of the GUI's port list is cool, though, as is the ipfw.conf setup.
Windows Services / SAMBA. SAMBA still has some bugs and issues which make it annoying to use as a replacement for a Windows-based PDC. Apple should help out the open source community here. In particular, find a good solution to the problem where visible
Open Directory. Fix the bugs in Open Directory or Workgroup Manager that prevent entry of "City" (and certain other attributes) in user LDAP records. Set up a better means of storing contact information in the LDAP directory, and document how to configure Mac OS X clients to access it via Address Book.
Backup Solution. There are lots of third-party backup solutions out there for backing up an OS X Server, but none I completely trust to do a bare-metal restore and give me a bootable system. Carbon Copy Cloner? Had issues with it when backing up an iBook via Firewire, so I don't trust it. Rsync? Doesn't handle resource forks. RsyncX? Slower than rsync (too slow for network backup). This would probably be pretty simple for Apple to implement and integrate into Server Admin.
All in all, Panther Server is pretty good, and Tiger Server looks even better. I just hope Apple fixes these things so others are spared the trouble I went through.
IIRC, there was a 'image & link' here to the 2004 WWDC. but now, it`s gone missing (it appears, so, anyway). anyone know what happened to it? (cause I don't)
I don't claim I know more than I know, and if you know you know more than I know, then by all means, let me know.
...it was in the '93-'94 timeframe. It was supposed to be a video server; i.e., multiply specified video streams could be served up to various clients.
Hmmm. I haven't heard of anything about it since then.
Tiger Server will focus on open source, Windows, and ease of use.
Kinda reminds me of the old joke: Good, cheap and fast, pick any two.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
Finally, a 64-bit OS. Took them what, a year?
This is their new service so you can chat with people who live in a double-wide trailer. Kudos to Apple for finally making their technologies accessible to the lower end of the socioeconomic spectrum!
We use an XServe G5 as a single sign-on and file server for a "lab" of about 14 FreeBSD and Windows XP machines. The computers are used as workstations (and occasionally for light numerical work) by theorists working on quantum information and quantum computation.
Macs seem to be quite popular among the quantum computing community. Ray Laflamme's group (U. of Waterloo and Perimeter Institute) uses them (although maybe they don't have an Xserve), and about 40% of the laptops at a recent quantum information conference I was at were PowerBooks.
Also announced were new monitors, that use DVI this time!! USB and Firewire hubs built in. Aluminum to match the G5. Smallest is 20" widescreen, largest is 30" (2560x1600, requires the DDL version of the GeForce 8600 Ultra).
More details at Apple.com.
yes, and solaris has a cheaper RTU than OS X crap, and unlimited connections - no problem.
Someone pass the kool-aide! I'll drink anything Jobs is serving!
There exists no way of exchanging information without making judgments. --Bene Gesserit Axiom
How about...
Lion-O
Panthro
Tygra
Cheetara
Wiley Kit/Kat
and of course....
Snarf!
An alternative name:
Pussy Galore
Come ON, Apple! Get on the stick and give us something to replace/compete with Exchange!
Do you know how many MS Small Business Servers my company rolled out this year to clients who would have loved to use a Mac server if they didn't need Exchange? Plenty!
They've got all the pieces already-- Mail.app, iCal, Address Book-- why don't they church 'em up some, put them all together into a single app, and add the needed functionality to OS X Server to do the shared calendaring, etc?
http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/mwsf04/ Doesn't seem to work, though. I've been trying all day, and I never get anything more than 'bad request' - familiar, or nothing at all. Was it there, or no?!
Currently OS X Server ships with JBoss, and opinions about Mark Fluery aside, that's a good thing. However, there's a ship about to leave, and Apple should do what they can in the next 12 months to be sure and get on it. That ship is the "tiny container" (for lack of a better name). Those frameworks that aim to compete with J2EE by introducing a simpler, lighter container for hosting your Plain Old Java Objects. They do not provide persistence (you get that from Hibernate, for instance), they do not provide transactions (you get that from a JTA provider), etc. What they do provide is a lightweight container and an integrtated AOP framework for glueing it all together.
.NET compatible runtime on OS X supported by Apple. Furthermore, those important Java/.NET sub-projects need full fledged support; Hibernate, Junit (Nunit), Ant (Nant), XDoclet, one of the umpteen MVC frameworks, and so on.
.NET via Mono. Support those all so important tactical projects. And integrate -- fully -- the whole kit & kaboodle into your development environment.
There's no argument that these containers are getting a lot of attention (so much so that the latest J2EE spec does what it can to emulate them -- not enough). Apple can win some serious street cred among app server developers by adopting one of these frameworks, enhancing the code, hiring the developers (maybe away from BEA -- hint, hint) and integrating it with X-Code.
And by "lightweight container" I mean Spring, Pico, and, yes, even JBoss (once all the overweight J2EE stuff is tossed). There are others, of course, such as Excalibur, but Spring and Pico have all the mind share. Spring especially, it seems.
While I'm at it, if Apple really wants a piece of the application server space they should endorse Mono with equal vigor. Imagine, a
So there you have it Apple: Proudly ditch the complexity of EJB. Raise the flag of lightweight containers and AOP. Embrace
You're welcome.
yeah, and 90% of the guys who are actually intelligent at that conference could give a shit what computer they have, as long as it does "math shit." loser fuckheads like you notice useless meaningless shit because actually solving problems in the quantum realm would require real intelligence, so instead you go around catlogging meaningless shit.
good job ancillary loser. lets hear some more from the fuck-pulpit.
W H O F U C K I N G C A R E S
How much more irrelevent could Solaris be? The answer is none. None more irrelevent. All the best things about Solaris will appear in other peoples software to much greater fanfare and Sun will slowly die thanks to their inability to market their own great products.
I really dislike the server pricing scheme as a home user. Yeah yeah yeah. I realize the Apple viewpoint of "why would home users need server software"? (I've asked them) But as a person who would like a single license for my G5 with a couple FreeBsd and Windows nodes, $500 for 10 licenses doesn;t work for me. It's unfortunate.
In a related note, is it possible to acquire certain server extensions (Blojsom or Jabber for example) and plug them into Tiger proper?
you are guilty of treason, and should be imprisoned and have your legs cut off.
you know nothing of operating systems if you say that. and also, you cant figure them out. you are smart enough to know why sun doesnt suck. they dont suck so bad, that even with bad management they dont die. and solaris 10, hardly a dying company producing something of that magnitude. and check this, script kiddie, first commercial opeteron OS. dont say linux, because no linux is commercial, and no linux entirely works properly. you wouldnt know that because you are a know nothing with no basis for comparison. i will now return you to your fog of stupidity, there is nothing i hoped to do but bleat in your general direction so that others might hear, you are beyond help.
Solaris is the ultimate, and you will grovel at it.
Go ahead and mod me 'Flamebait', but some of the new features very strongly resemble applications written by independent developers. Dashboard? Meet Konfabulator. Spotlight? Meet Launchbar. Safari's new RSS feature? Meet NetNewsWire. IIRC, Apple did the same thing involving Watson when it added channels to Sherlock.
Maybe this is why Apple distributes the Developer Tools free of charge; so they can coopt any product that is created using those Developer Tools?
Umm... I can understand not liking a $500 price tag for *any* piece of software. But realistically, what other commercial server type OS are you going to buy for much less than Apple's price on OS X server? (If you're a student, work for the government in any capacity, or even serve in the military, you should already qualify for at least a small discount already - since Apple always offers that.)
I've never seen Novell offer a copy of Netware real cheap for home users just wanting to try using it for 1 or 2 workstations.... and Microsoft sure doesn't offer Windows 2003 Server at anything resembling "inexpensive pricing".
I think that's pretty much the reason for the popularity of Unix type open-source OS's in the first place. If you just want to tinker at home, Linux or BSD should do the job for you, and not cost you hundreds of dollars.
Let's get this straight -- you are talking about the irrelevance of Solaris in a MacOS X Server thread? Irony++
The summary above neglected to mention the promise of ACLs:
"Tiger Server goes beyond the limitations of traditional UNIX file permissions to give you greater flexibility over assigning access permissions to files, folders and network services. Access Control Lists (ACLs) in Tiger Server let you set a whole group as the owner of a file or folder rather than just an individual -- you can even assign unique access permissions for multiple users and groups. This makes it easy to set up collaborative environments with smooth file sharing and uninterrupted workflows, without compromising security.
Even if you have a multi-platform network, you can still enjoy the flexibility of ACLs in Tiger Server -- because they're compatible with those in Windows Server 2003 and Windows XP."
wtf this does to ls, chown and chgrp is anyone's guess. My guess: bad things. How in the world this was implemented will be interesting to know; a whole different volume format? Is it an option or mandatory? If it is still restricted to only one owner--who just happens to actually be a group, I can see how that would work. Or maybe through hard links, each link with a different permission set? Much remains to be seen about this compatibility feature--but if it works well it'll be welcome. If it doesn't there'll be hell to pay.
--
$tar -xvf
now you listen here you fucking coozed up gypsy. you make me sick. i was reading some random shit and got pissed. and now that im angry, and you priving MY POINT, by being an arrogant fucker, and being wrong, and not showing anything technically wrong but talking FOAMING AT THE MOUTH SHIT. FUCK YOU!. assfucking molester! im right. i know im right. mother fucker. you start naming shit fuckin OS X is better at than solaris. shit that matters. shit that makes the OS certified to run shit OS X or Windows or Linux COULD NEVER RUN RELIABLY bitch! oasdkhgljkashfgskhhg FUCK YOU.!>!>!
Last I checked, a Windows 2003 server license with 5 (FIVE!) client access licenses was about $3700.
Only if you pick the most expensive version for trolling purposes.
s marketin g/partnermarket/actionpack/actionpackus.aspx
If you sign up as a MS "partner", you can get all of their server software for $400 total:
http://members.microsoft.com/partner/sale
Apple's Developer program gives you both OS X and OS X Server for $500, which isn't a terrible deal.
How many felines are left?
Maybe they're actually naming the versions after German tanks. Let's see if the next one is "Leopard"...
Downmodding is the refuge of the weak. Don't downmod, make a better argument!
www.buymeamac.com
catlogging? I shudder to imagine what that means.
Its the WWDC 2004 keynote...
I'm watching it now..
Try here or
if that doesn't work.. The link is on This page
Except that Apple is bundling (mostly) free software. They aren't writing any of this software themselves. They are just grabbing Samba, writing a basic configuration tool/migration tool, and charging $500 for it. Samba is great software and certainly worth $500. But if you can download it for free and Apple isn't really adding any value to it, why pay for it?
Does anybody know if pf (OpenBSD's firewall) is included in OSX?
they are adding tons of value to samba. The config tools for samba, and every other damon on the system. Not to mention support, so one can ring them when someone isn't working right. So when one pays $500 dollars for OS X Server, they are not just paying for samba and a default config. They are paying for samba/apache/whateverftpd/everything else with a REALLY nice (atleast as of panther, compared to configuration tools on Windows2k/Linux) set of configuration tools for them, as well as support AND 5 client licenses, which alone would run over 500 dollars...
Jisho - A Japanese English German Russian French Dictionary for the rest of us.
(If you're a student, work for the government in any capacity, or even serve in the military, you should already qualify for at least a small discount already - since Apple always offers that.)
Servers are the one area where it seems that there is no break for educators, et al. I suppose the potential for someone using it for business applications is too hard to verify.
Do you know a student? Do you live near a school? Can you FIND a school?
:)
The educational pricing for OS X Server is quite nice - and is a great alternative for those that just want to "use it at home"
But then they could always do the came with cats: calico, tabby...
Just aren't inspiring, are they?
Put identity in the browser.
Solaris is the ultimate at eating my asshole while tickling my nutsack with your nose.
Read slower and take in more content.
Every. Single. Thing. That. Sun. Is. First. To. Implement. Will. Appear. Later. On. Someone. Elses. OS. And. It. Will. Be. The. Shit. When. They. Do. It.
Being first and being better doesn't mean one God damned thing in this world. Being first to make noise with it does.
Moot point anyway. Mac and Linux will get "x" amount of applause for doing it after Sun (which gets no applause because they're Sun and this week they're your Java desktop company, next week they'll be your "delivering streaming monkey fucking apps to your PDA through your bunghole IN JAVA...plus we make Solaris company)
And then a couple of years later Windows will add it but it won't work right, be shot full of holes, and leave a steaming turd in your mouth right before it reboots (courtesy of the NAMBLA.SteamingTrd.Trojan virus) and they'll still be lined up 2,000 deep to buy it because they read about it in "Windows Dominator Weekly" magazine which they get sent free of charge and their boss thinks is where you learn this shit when you're not in MCSE classes.
It just doesn't matter Solarisman. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER.
You'd think a fucking Solaris fluffer would know better than to debate the futility of being better in Windows world with a Mac user wouldn't you. Well, you'd be wrong.
I link the keynote which is interesting.. Get modded to "flamebait"????. Maybe someone couldn't get a good connection?
Anyway here are the working links again..
Quicktime WWDC
or a more direct link
Anyway I finish watching. Interesting stuff. The system wide search is interesting. Like the google search service for your hard drive.
The the real time image/video effects. I do a lot of photoshop and the effects are really fast and leverage the video card GPU. The libraries will autodetect the card and use the card if applicable. 100+ effect libraries with the os to build into application.
They're working hard on the OS and it shows.
How would you set up automatic converting when your city council will not?...
.doc formatting attached.
On the 20" iMac apple computer OS X 10.3.4 I read email in the terminal window by using ssh to the university and running emacs rmail. Boston city council distributes public notices of council committees public hearings but the public notices are in microsoft word
maybe big bro can use searchlight technology to find terrorists quicker...
That Apple are following the naming conventions for Nazi armoured vehicles? Is this Job's final solution to the Microsoft problem?
OK, I use Macs every day, and I'm sure MacOS 10.4 will be an excellent system... but come on, "blojsom"? Who comes up with names like that? Somebody who thought that the word "blog" doesn't sound stupid enough on its own? I always thought Apple had better taste than that.
they are adding tons of value to samba.
A config front-end hardly qualifies as 'tons of value'. Since the heavy lifting is done by free software, they're in the same league with Linux distros here. Which means the big money should be for support, not for the install CD.
Anyone else would have charged something like the desktop price + about $100 for the extra integration for the bare system software and add a premium for support. Apple being Apple, the premium is already in the baseline (and you get a limited number of clients as a perk). Unfortunately, this mentality will only enforce a marketshare cap for OSX Server.
OS-X Terrier huh? So it constantly beeps at you whenever you look away from the screen?
Plus, would the OS be housebroken?
Depending on how exactly it works. Hopefully, in the same way as core Audio it is not just a plugin and interconnect layer for video applications but a complet abstraction layer for hardware as well. Hurry up with some godamned documentation.
at the same time I was dissapointed not to see distributed rendering using Xgrid for Apples Pro Video Apps.
That's a great question. If you don't think Apple is adding value, don't pay for it.
All the people who like the value Apple is adding will pay for it.
Both sets of people are happy.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
Mac OS X Server pricing for .edu is half price. I bought a 3 year maintenance contract for my unlimited client server a day before 10.3 Server shipped for $499. That covered 10.3, will cover 10.4, and may or may not cover 10.5 - but I'm thinking not unless they ship by Sept. 2006.
The 10 client license is $249. There *may* be an even cheaper offer for ADC members.
If you are not using AFS you can just use standard OS X as a server, and add the few extensions for services that are essential. Most stuff is already there under the standard user system anyway.
The services compile like on BSD, and you then do GUI-less administration for them. Apple basically sells you the fact that they have done all the compiling and configuring for you - I just wish some of the Open Source vendors did the same.
This is not a signature.
solaris 7 was doing things years before the rest. solaris 7 is still ahead of linux of today. sorry.
your perpetual eructations here serve only to show that I am correct in this thread and you are both wrong and too inexperienced to even know that you are wrong.
so. while i get paid a premium to manage things that have near zero downtime, you can play in the commodity pond fed by an unfiltered sewer drain. au revior.
again. for posterity's sake. i am right. you have been nothing but wrong, anectdotal and show that it is likely that you are either worthles sor counterproductive in any discourse.
i piss on you waif fuck crapple loving OS X licking fag. FREEBSD or die! Fuck you cumguzzling whores for stealing Lord Jordan Hubbard and drugging him and making him steve slobs sex slave.
FUCKER I WILL AVENGE LORD HUBBARD!
dont say linux, because no linux is commercial, and no linux entirely works properly.
That must be some fucking news to IBM. You know IBM, the company so huge they could eat Sun whole and not even burp afterwards Sun are turds on the sidewalk of computing. They're like some angsty teenager who doesn't have a fucking clue what they want to be. This week they're a Java company, next week they'll hate OpenSource, the week after they'll love OpenSource but declare Linux "The future"...they 180 so much the entire board must be fucking dizzy by now.
Solaris: Only good for running Oracle, and even Oracle tell you to run it on Linux these days. Because Solaris is shit.
Fact: AIX is not exactly the example of a proper unix.
Fact: Linux on the Mainframe has had horrible sales.
Fact: IBM does not distribute Linux - notice they use RedHat and SuSE, both poor excuses for an OS. I would say IBM gets losers like you to start "penguining" around IBM without actually doing much besides a half-assed POSIX thread bit and JFS.
Fact: You know no facts.
So, websphere opensource? Hrm? Is it? I cant hear you? And sun never contributed now? Is that your implication? (You would be dead wrong). How did NFS come to pass? Oh, my, you seem so light on the history. Who was the first UNIX still alive today to have TCP? Oh? Oh, so is IBM JVM open? Oh,no it isnt. Hrm. You are a smart littke tyke there.
Funny. Keep on talking. Its really great to watch you paint yourself into a corner with this. I see defenistration in the near future.
Solaris is more important to the planet than you or any offspring or relatives you may have. Humanity would suffer a great loss of Solaris just disappeared. If you and all your seed were wiped from the earth, humanity would be better off.
It's like weblogging, but with a cat instead of a web. Hope that clears things up.
although dingo and hyena don't sound so good for OS names
It was the Dingos! Dingos ate my hard drive!
Sorry, beg to differ, in Germany at least there where several Netware 4.0, 4.11 Promos (maybe also newer versions) which offered exactly that: a Server for max. 2 Workstations connected/working. They where freebies given away with PC-Mags and could also be ordered from Novell - for a little fee or free, I cannot remember.
There may be a 64-bit userland available, but from what I hear, the kernel won't be going 64-bit anytime soon because they don't want to force 3rd party developers to rebuild their kernel extensions.
This means that we'll have to live with a small (4GB) kernel address space for a long time. This makes entry into the kernel very expensive for syscalls, ioctls, etc. Its pretty much the same thing as the linux 4GB+4GB patches.
A config front-end hardly qualifies as 'tons of value'.
I dunno. There seems to be a lot more people who can create an operating system or network server application than can create a decent configuration utility.
How many great pieces of free software are there that take days to learn how to install and configure? Not having to do that is what people are paying for.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Did you ever hear of a patent?
If this software is truly innovative and original, it should be patented and protected. If it is, and Apple (or anyone else) copies it in such a way that violates the specifications of the patent, then you actually have a foot to stand on when you whine about software plagiarism and they can do something about it.
Really, is every piece of software on an OS suppose to be a totally original idea? Where would Linux be if that was true? Almost everything on Linux is a copy of (or inspired by) something else that was out there on another OS. The same can be said for most bundled software on all OS's. Their original ideas started somewhere else and someone on the product management team decided it would be benificial for the users of the OS to have these types of products readily available.
I'm not even going to get into how all of the products you mentioned are actually inspired by some OTHER product that exists (or DID exist at some time).
Strange - They've been holding to the 499 pricing with me for 10 client. 999 for unlimited.
as well as support AND 5 client licenses
... (all free software packages) don't have client license limits. Apple is artificially imposing a limit on the software to make more money. I don't mind paying for support, but milking your customers is total crap, and I don't like it whether it be Microsoft or Apple.
This is the part I disagree with. Sure, config tools are great and support packages are great. If they had some nice tools, I would be willing to pay a few hundred for them. But what is a client license? Samba, Apache, ProFTPD, Bind,
Also, btw, RedHat sells great support packages and tools with their Advanced Server distribution (with great deals for educational institutions, which is what Apple's distribution seems to be aimed at), and they don't cripple the software.
Where did he/she say that what Apple is doing is illegal? The way I read the comment, all he/she said was that three of the new features in Tiger *closely* resemble shareware. Not that Apple should be taken to court or even be forced to settle with developers, just that Apple's reputation as an 'innovator' isn't *as* deserved when all of these 'new' ideas have been commercially available for a long time *and* that Apple has done this before.
So fuck you, and fuck all of the other Apple zealots that are jumping all over this guy for questioning Apple. Jesus Christ, if Microsoft did this all of you would be crying about how Microsoft is squashing the widdle investors. Fucking whiners.
The client license only applies to AFP (and possibly Samba) connections.
Mod point free since 2001
Ah, but they are an innovator. Not only with software, but certainly with hardware also. I suppose your definition of a reputable innovator is one that only comes up totally original ideas? Please.
Whiners? Whiners? Isn't this the context of this very thread, you idiot? The original post was a whine, and I'm posting my opinion. Go figure.
As far as Microsoft is concerned, I don't bitch when they come out with new features for the OS or other software that *resembles* software that is already out there. I welcome it. Nothing drives innovation like competition.
Novell used to do freebies, 5 user, non commercial, stuff like that. You probably didn't see them because it's not like they were advertised in any useful fashion. I only knew about them because I worked for a Novell reseller -- it's not like they'd be of any interest to the average home user.
The other big commercial OS available free would have to be Solaris, and that's free for commercial use as well, for however many processors it is today.
Nah, OS X - Tiddles - is the job...
Largely so I'm no longer the only one who can fix the equipment anymore. Do you know how nice life is when you can hand someone a dummy's book so you can move onto something more challenging.
Like posting on ./
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
From Apple's website.
"Mac OS X Server is designed to fit into just about any managed network environment, including ones that use Microsoft's Active Directory. New Directory Access modules in Mac OS X Server enable the server to access account records stored in Active Directory, without requiring any modifications to the Active Directory schema. That means departments or workgroups in enterprise environments can take advantage of the low-cost file services in Mac OS X Server, while still integrating with their existing Active Directory infrastructure for user account information and authentication."
I'm taken to nicknaming Tiger "Tigger". With Jaguar it was "Jagwire"... nothing really good for panther unless you wanted to use two words (Pink Panther). But "Tigger" is great.
Fact: *BSD is dying.
=======
P.S. Bite! You've been bitten by the Original AIDS Monkey! You have AIDS now!
Lifted off the web a long time ago. Sorry, I forgot the source, so I can't credit it to anyone. And it's not comprehensive [Puma and Panther were missing, although there is Cougar (Puma concolor) ].
Already used/taken
* Cheetah (Acinonyx jubatus) OS X 10.0
* Puma OS X 10.1
* Jaguar (Panthera onca) OS X 10.2
* Panther OS X 10.3
* Tiger (Panthera tigris) OS X 10.4
Wild Cat Species (alphabetical)
* African golden cat (Profelis aurata)
* Andean mountain cat (Oreailurus jacobita)
* Asian golden cat (Catopuma temminckii)
* Black-footed cat (Felis nigripes)
* Bobcat (Lynx rufus)
* Bornean bay cat (Catopuma badia)
* Canadian lynx (Lynx canadensis)
* Caracal (Caracal caracal)
* Chinese mountain cat (Felis bieti)
* Clouded leopard (Neofelis nebulosa)
* Cougar (Puma concolor)
* Eurasian Lynx (Lynx lynx)
* Fishing Cat (Prionailurus viverrinus)
* Flat-headed cat (Prionailurus planiceps)
* Geoffroys cat (Oncifelis geoffroyi)
* Iberian lynx (Lynx pardinus)
* Jaguarundi (Herpailurus yagouarundi)
* Jungle cat (Felis chaus)
* Kodkod (Oncifelis guigna)
* Leopard (Panthera pardus)
* Leopard cat (Prionailurus bengalensis)
* Lion (Panthera leo)
* Marbled cat (Pardofelis marmorata)
* Margay (Leopardus wiedii)
* Ocelot (Leopardus pardalis)
* Oncilla (Leopardus tigrinus)
* Pampas cat (Oncifelis colocolo)
* Pallas cat (Otocolobus manul)
* Rusty-spotted cat (Prionailurus rubiginosus)
* Sand cat (Felis margarita)
* Serval (Leptailurus serval)
* Snow leopard (Uncia uncia)
* Wildcat (Felis silvestris)
It's been said before don't be a sharecropper.
If you must work on proprietary OSes then don't do something that extends the Operating System itself. Widgets are a classic example. If you read Konfabulator's post about it - they do not seem totally surprised.
Software development is a Red Queen Race - you've got to stay ahead of the competition by being better faster cooler. The race that Apple is running is not against its developers but Windows. All power to them. Sure it would be nice for them to buy up innovative products like they (supposedly) did with the original multi-finder.
Not sure why they don't. It seems obvious that Windows developers half hope that MS would buy them out. But it could be argued that this would open Apple up to problems of intellectual property challenges that they couldn't afford to pay for. If you've another idea way they don't play more fair then post here.
But they do buy out good software products. Some of the Pro software has been bought from other developers.
But if you develop software too close to Apple's core business then I guess you have to look at that Sharecropper paradigm again and avoid it.
So lookout if you work on the following plots of ground...
Search (Watson)
Music (Audion)
Networking (Dave)
Desk Accessories / OS extensions (Konfabulator)
Browsers / Internet Content & Search (Camino, NewsNetWire)
Video editing
I think you'd be foolish to develop a PVR for Mac OS X for instance - that covers several of the above fields... basically a Video iTunes with search and networking - perhaps that RSS stuff as well. Expect Apple to run with this for sure - that new codec H.264 should run pretty well over AirPort Express... and wait until wireless UWB Firewire hits silicon.
Still - shame on Apple - seems like they could do better. They even had the gall to present this stuff at the WWDC - where the developers would surely know where they were getting the inspiration from.... amongst the ranks of those in the audience. Hell the Konfabulator guys, Arlo Rose & Perry Clarke, were probably in the audience!
Time to feed the troll.
If it has near zero downtime, what idiot is paying you a premium to manage it?
Cheetah was either 10.0 or 10.1, I don't remember which offhand.
Also, aren't a puma and a cougar the same thing? Also known as a mountain lion?
Lasers Controlled Games!
At least not to those who set up a server every other day.
Lars T.
To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck
Hahahahaha. I laugh at you. Solaris may be damn near perfect but its not sentient and doesnt configure itself. So when you work for a real company with changing hardware and software requirements and also patching and security maint. HAHAHAHA. You make me sick, scumbag. Your idea of administration is putting out fires, you are such a fucking loser lunatic.
If you're a student, you can get Server for $99... get a developer's license, which comes with a 5-user license for X Server.
If not, you can get a regular developer's package for $500/year, which doesn't save you anything from Server, but does get you hardware discounts, and seedings, and a dev tech support issue or two, and some other fun stuff.
That's how I got mine.
-fred
Sign #11 of Slashdot overdose: You see the phrase 'moderate Republican' and you wonder if that would be a +1 or a -1.
Wrong - Windows NT for Alpha/AXP was NOT 64-bit. It used the Alpha's 32-bit mode.
Alpha platform does not have a 32-bit mode of operation. It is a clean design, 64-bit only.
Sincerily,
Alpha Troll
...if you get the student Apple developer's edition you get a 5-user X Server license with it. For $99.
And yes, you can use it as a production server.
-fred
Sign #11 of Slashdot overdose: You see the phrase 'moderate Republican' and you wonder if that would be a +1 or a -1.
I hear most pederasts live in Mobile Home parks because most families there have two working parents and they leave their children home and can't afford to have a sitter to tend them.
'Brings new scope to the (GA-) Gay Apple movement and their affiliation with (NAMBLA) National Association Man Boy Love America.
Those willing to spend some money on the server will get X Serves anyway. Which come with an unlimited client copy of Mac OS X Server.
Yes, I am in IT. And we'll be getting an X Serve within the next year, and already have one machine running X Server (as a test machine for our server software). If the CTO weren't a Linux kernel hacker, we'd probably already have an X Serve or two.
-fred
Sign #11 of Slashdot overdose: You see the phrase 'moderate Republican' and you wonder if that would be a +1 or a -1.
This is the same guy that "dumped a chunk of long-term memory" ...down his pants; hot grits!
This is the same guy that had wild internet sex with a dolphin that cracked a poor-visual-illustration-of-a security daemon.
This is the same guy that was responsible for Bill And Ted's bogus movies.
This is the same guy...
Yes indeed. And anyone else would have carefully made sure that you needed to use that support, too.
... that does not make much sense. The 'good, low-mantenance server software solution' called Samba (for instance) is the same once properly configured, whether packaged by Apple or some Linux distro.
this parses as if most/all the other packagers of OSS are just selling crippled versions that you need to continuously support
The population of people who are unwilling to pay an extra $1000 for a good, low-mantenance server software solution tend to be the people who make their own $400 servers. (And then get confused when they die.)
I call bullshit on this one. Most of the times (there are exceptions on everything in nature) the do-it-yourself procedure teaches you more than a nice out-of-the-box setup. You'll get confused for a while by new problems in any field, but you learn to solve them (and get some understanding in the process) and move on. Of course, when you have a support line, you never get confused - you get busy calling the support people. Ignorance is bliss. Pray for no security holes ^_^
Now, I'm not saying a nicely set up server with good defaults is not a boon - it sure is, at least for getting started up. Sooner or later, there will always be that screwy special case that requires your getting down and dirty with the configuration settings, but the initial learning curve will be less steep. My argument was rather that a cheaper, unsupported and uncrippled version is really helpful for people that want to learn the ropes. Apple has a grasp of this with edu discounts on desktops, but apparently the servers won't qualify. With Linux, all the distros give you the server packages, some sane defaults and let you go from there, no strings attached. You do get to pay for support, which is something commercial entities are interested in (you should know since you stated being in IT - the need to have someone to point the finger at if things go wrong).
As a side note, not all the people who roll their own are cheapos - lots of large corporate networks have too weird quirks for the (otherwise sane) defaults of their servers to work, so they do in-house configuring and support.
Those willing to spend some money on the server will get X Serves anyway.
Take this statement on its own and see whether you understand how funny it is. Heck, take it in context too. Here's a clue: XServe is not a proven platform yet. See how any server platform that does not have the economy of scale Wintel has had trouble starting up (Linux is the glaring example, until the industry heavyweights started promoting it, it was just a geek toy; *BSD still is to some extent, just because of lack of high-profile commercial support.) Out there Macs are not a majority by any measure and no intelligent CTO will go out and buy XServe just because it hip OSX lineage. It's called best tool for the job under given circumstances.
In short, XServe is not a born winner (nor a born loser, either, but that's not the point). The loyal Mac fans are mostly desktop users, so unless Apple offers some really sweet deals it will have a hard time getting any kind of server market share. Right now, Windows and Linux are the growing server businesses. If Windows integration is a norm and Apple does it with OSS software, then there's not net gain against Linux here (Apple is not the only company smart enough to make efficient config tools, and you're not going to need reconfiguring your servers every other day). And, for that matter, I fail to see why a headless Samba server would need OSX - I could just as well use FreeBSD and have more freedom (and less worry). Or [insert commercial Linux vendor here] for support.
Apple with Tigers and Panthers, and Microsoft with their awaited Longhorn. I can picture new ad campaigns 1. Pack of Tigers stalking a herd of Longhorns, getting ready to pounce a stray Longhorn to shreds. 2. Microsoft answering back, we're going tiger hunting. 3. Apple using Henry Mancini's Pink Panther theme, along with a cartoon Inspector Closeau in their ad touting their OS file search capabilities. 4. Or have a celebrity like Roy, from Siegfried and Roy pitching that from now on, the only Tigers and Panthers he'll be working with are the ones from Apple.
I can't believe that nobody has commented on the one other feature that other server-level systems have, that 10.3 and below lack: Ethernet link aggregation (aka FastEtherChannel, aka 802.3ad). It'll be great to have 4Gb of bandwith from the SAN and be able to pump out more than 1Gb to the same subnet.
What's with everyone's fascination over blogs, anyway? *ducks*
Maybe I'm just being a curmudgeon or something, but I'm starting to get really sick of Apple's obsoletism. Once your bank account has recovered from buying one 200 dollar operating system, it's marketing a new one. Now, I was really excited when I moved up from 7.6.1 to 10.1.4 (I'm a high school student, no money of my own, subject to my parents' OS whims). And I tell you, it was great. For the first month or so. And then I found out that suddenly Apple expected everyone to have their NEW new OS if they wanted to be able to download anything whatsoever. And now you can't even find old 10.1.4 compatible versions...everyone just assumes you have hundreds of dollars to blow on whatever new thing Apple's released to render your old OS obsolete.
--A witty sig proves nothing.--
No one is going to read this, since this story is days old....but just in case:
dig the thing on dashboard! All the stocks in the ticker are up, except MSFT! I love it! Pixar, Amazon, Apple....everyone up except Microsoft! LOL!
How desperate do you reckon they'll have to be before we see an OSX version named "flat-headed cat"?
"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it." -- GBS
Sun has released a bunch of great technology, I know, use to work there. Nobody understands have the crap Sun releases because they never release anything users can grasp with the technology release. If you look at Core Image, and Core Video (OS X 10.4) and your not impressed, then your a frickin moron. Can Sun do that, does Sun have similiar if not better technology for the same applications. Yes stupid, but it doesn't matter. McNeally and Jobs.