Doom 3 Announced for Mac

thelemmings writes "Aspyr today announced that it will (finally) publish Doom 3 for the Macintosh. The game is scheduled for release Q1 2005 and the system requirements indicate that a G5 processor will be required, which seems quite surprising as it will leave iBooks and Powerbooks owners on the side of the road. Too bad iD Software didn't release a free OSX client like they previously did for linux version of the game."

Comments

Whatcha need

[Davak]

Well, Apple guys/gals... you'll need these...

Complete List of Doom 3 Console Commands
List of Common Doom 3 cheats

To Run it you'll need this...

Mac System Requirements:
Mac OS X 10.3.6 or later
PowerPC G5 1.5 GHz or faster
384MB RAM (512MB recommended)
2.2 GB free disk space
ATI Radeon 8500/nVidia GeForce 3 or better
32MB of Video Ram (VRAM)
DVD drive required to install and play

And you'll have to wait until..

Aspyr Media Inc. on Wednesday announced plans to publish id Software's Doom 3 for the Macintosh. The game is currently in development for the Mac by id, and will be released in February, 2005.
Source

Re:Whatcha need

[fr0dicus]

And a new mouse.

Re:Whatcha need

[Anonymous Coward]

Err, you haven't played Doom 3, have you?

zzZZZzZzZZzzz..

Re:Whatcha need

[Anonymous Coward]

Either it's a typo or Aspyr knows something we don't. There are no 1.5 GHz G5 computers currently sold by Apple.

This must mean that either 1) there will be new eMac G5 running at that speed or 2) That's the entry speed for the PowerBook G5s when released (probablly in time for Doom3) or 3) both 1 and 2.

Let the rumors begin!

Re:Whatcha need

[mirko]

Maybe it's just that Aspyr found out it would use 83% of a 1,8GHz G5...

Anyway, IIRC, "they" said UT2003 required a G4 while I could happily play it on a G3 800 iBook, so, don't believe all what they say, sometime, it just work like you want and Doom 3 might play well on your Sunflower iMac...

Re:Whatcha need

[mrchaotica]

Well, except for the whole 64-bit instructions thing...

Re:Whatcha need

[dan the person]

Well except for that whole Altivec thing.... (re G3 vs G4)

it's doesn't need 64bit on a PC, why would it need it on a Mac?

Re:Whatcha need

[msh104]

with ..... two buttons?

Re:Whatcha need

[fr0dicus]

Nope, at least 5 IMO.

Re:Whatcha need

[capmilk]

it's doesn't need 64bit on a PC, why would it need it on a Mac?

Because it's compiled that way?
We're gonna know for sure when it hits the shelves (of our favorite torrent trackers).

Re:Whatcha need

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, except for the whole 64-bit instructions thing...

OS X 10.4 is supposed to be the first 64bit version of OS X, so I doubt that is the case if it requires OS X 10.3.6.

Re:Whatcha need

[whitlock]

I would expect that designing a FPS with just 1 button would be like pulling teeth from a Piranha. I use a two button scroll on my G3.

Re:Whatcha need

[Anonymous Coward]

64-bit has nothing to do with it. It's the beefier bus architecture of the G5-based systems that makes the requirement.

Re:Whatcha need

[Refrag]

Great, I can play Doom 3 just when my friend that has it for Windows gets tired of playing it. I think I'm probably going to skip Doom 3. I would have bought if they'd had a much closer release date to the Windows version as they did with Quake 3 and as Blizzard seems to be able to do with all of their games (simultaneous, actually).

Re:Whatcha need

[SilentChris]

And a flashlight.

Re:Whatcha need

[ColMustard]

Blizzard has their own 'Mac team,' that's why they can be so fast. It's lead by John Stiles of emulation.net fame. But there really aren't many companies that do that. It just seems to be easier to either hire the port done or just not support the Mac for many companies. :shrug:

Re:Whatcha need

[fafaforza]

just when my friend that has it for Windows gets tired of playing it

So... he must have bought it yesterday? What took him so long?

Re:Whatcha need

[T'hain Esh Kelch]

Because it's compiled that way? We're gonna know for sure when it hits the shelves (of our favorite torrent trackers).
It probably has something to do with the FSB bandwith. G4's has 166Mhz at the most, G5's has 600 Mhz at the least. Not 64 bit.

Re:Whatcha need

[Pluribus]

TRUST ME on the 10.3.6. Both the NVidia and ATI video drivers (although ATI's driver was more sane) had enough issues that require the new revision. Doom3 + 10.3.5 most likely would = bright red world due to a driver issue. (There are issues with certain color formats and ARB_fragment_programs , all of which are fixed in the beta versions of the drivers.) I know... Same things with my game 10.3.5 has broken ARB_fragment_programs and broken NV_register_combiner2 OpenGL extensions. Both of which are fixed with 10.3.6.

NOTE: They were able to be worked around on the ATI cards. I had to blacklist those extensions on the NVIDIA card to prevent my use of them on 10.3.6.

Disclaimer: I dont work for Aspyr nor participated in any of the testing of the game. However, I do know the reasons for requiring 10.3.6 because I have encountered them. (It really is hard to explain to someone who has a NV 5200 why you have to render it like a GF2 to get it to work correctly)

Re:Whatcha need

[Damek]

Well, all I have is a 1GHz iBook, and my gf has a 1.6 GHz PC notebook. So if I were to buy a new machine to play Doom 3, I may as well get a PC since the Mac requirements look pretty steep. And with the PC I'd be albe to play Half-Life 2 (and many other games), too.

I've fallen in love with Apple lately (well, OS X), but there's really no point in using Macs for games.

I'd mention the XBox 2, but I'd miss the keyboard/mouse combo for shooters, and if I'm going to shell out for a gaming machine next year or so, I may as well pay a few more for a full PC (shuttle/miniatx-sized) that can play more games I already own from before I got my iBook...

Re:Whatcha need

[Teh Anonymous Coward]

Logitech MX500 or MX510
With that mouse you'll be set for life with any FPS game you get.
Too bad mac's still run games like shit :'(

Re:Whatcha need

[ChoGGi]

you can get a keyboard+mouse for your ps2/xbox
http://www.lik-sang.com/news.php?artc=34 95

Re:Whatcha need

[niteice]

Too bad mac's still run games like shit :'(

Too bad you still write like shit.

Re:Whatcha need

[Anonymous Coward]

It really is hard to explain to someone who has a NV 5200 why you have to render it like a GF2 to get it to work correctly

I dunno what NV 5200 you're using, but my nVidia GeForce 5200 Ultra runs Doom3 just fine at the highest visual quality setting - albeit at a less-than-stellar framerate - but with no graphical artifacts whatsoever (as Pluribus described).

Must be your drivers. Update 'em.

Re:Whatcha need

[Pluribus]

We are talking OSX here, not Windoze... You should learn to read first then respond. The 10.3.5 drivers are hopelessly braindead. 10.3.6 fixes all the driver bugs with regards to NV_register_combiner2 and ARB_fragment_program extensions.

Re:Whatcha need

[Ohreally_factor]

Don't tell me you've never heard of Underclocking? =)

Ahhhhh, my G5 is too fast!

Re:Whatcha need

[redJag]

If it *was* compiled with a 64 bit compiler, though, it *would* require the G5. No ifs ands or butts. Well, maybe some butts. ;)

Re:Whatcha need

[Hes Nikke]

not to mention that all the G5's ship with GPU's that are about 14 generations newer than the nVidia GeForce 3. ;)

Re:Whatcha need

[Anonymous Coward]

OS X 10.4 is supposed to be the first 64bit version of OS X, so I doubt that is the case if it requires OS X 10.3.6.

Nonsense. 10.4 is the first version where the OS is 64-bit, but applications can still use 64-bit code in 10.3 - PhotoShop has had a 64-bit mode for some time, IIRC.

Re:Whatcha need

[Captain Salty Pete]

I'd think any Mac user worth their gaming salt would have one. I'm using an 8 button mouse myself.

Re:Whatcha need

[qw(name)]

Did Apple sell them in the past? If they did then obviously this applies to those people and to the people who bought recently.

Re:Whatcha need

[Refrag]

Id had Graeme Devine, but they wouldn't let him work on Mac ports. :(

Reload?

[Anonymous Coward]

Does reloading involve dragging the clip into the trash can?

Re:Reload?

[djdanlib]

Don't forget the keyboard shortcut: Apple-E

Re:Reload?

[Jeremy Erwin]

It's actually been a long time since someone released a mac game (commercially) that used the mac interface. Koei used to do it, but now, game designers redesign the game interface for every game, usually sacrificing readability in the process.

Of course, now that Apple's redesigned the widget set, the Aqua controls might be a tad intrusive,

Re:Reload?

[brianosaurus]

Read the article.

In addition to the port, they're re-theming the Doom environment to be more mac friendly. All the computers and buildings are shiny white and acrylic. Where they still have to render metal, they use ipod-mini colors and give it the anodized look.

The gameplay has been tweaked for one mouse button and has a convenient menu bar for those who don't feel comfortable with keyboard commands (File->Shoot, Edit->Change_Weapon, etc).

I can't wait! ;)

the whole thing makes me wonder market shares

[luvirini]

I mean how big a market share Linux gaming has today, and how big Mac gaming.

Did try to look up things on the web, but seems all the things I find point at old info saying basically linux Nil, Mac close to Nil.

The funny party is still some companies release these games, so there must be a market... Maybe..

Re:the whole thing makes me wonder market shares

[MoonFog]

For most other ID software games (afair) they've just released a Linux executable. You still use the same CD that came with the Windows package. So I guess the market is easy to reach once the game is developed.

Re:the whole thing makes me wonder market shares

[leonmergen]

It's a chicken or the egg problem - gamers won't switch to linux/mac due to very little games, game producers won't make games for linux/mac due to very little gamers.

I think there's a trend of the 'better' gaming companies to break through this circle. Another advantage is that at the time that Mac and *nix *will* have mature gaming support, they already have a significant advantage over competitors due to their experience with porting those games...

Re:the whole thing makes me wonder market shares

[swordboy]

Please read about Carmack's battle with D3D and Microsoft. The bottom line is that he's the main reason that we've still got OpenGL. This technology enables game developers to deploy 3D gaming engines to multiple platforms quite easily.

Make no bones about it - there is no substantial non-Windows gaming market. No sir. Carmack does this for two reasons - because he can and because it really throws mud in the eye of Microsoft.

As a side note, if you haven't purchased this game, then go out and do so... even if you won't use it. Without id software (and some other keys), gaming would be Windows-only right now.

Re:the whole thing makes me wonder market shares

[arasinen]

What matters is profitability, not market share.

The costs of porting a game are significantly lower than creating the game in the first place. Aspyr need not worry itself with level design, for instance. (I'm not saying it is easy to port a game but it's easier.)

It is also possible that due to the relatively low Mac market share, warez isn't such a big issue in Mac gaming market. (Dunno about the numbers, I'm pulling this out of my hat.) And of course, if you can afford a Mac, then how can you not afford a game?

I am of course only speaking for myself, but if a suitable game (such as Rome: Total War or Star Wars Battleground) would be released for the Mac, I'd buy it in an instant. In the meanwhile I play Master of Orion 2 on an emulator :-)

Re:the whole thing makes me wonder market shares

[arasinen]

I am of course only speaking for myself, but if a suitable game (such as Rome: Total War or Star Wars Battleground) would be released for the Mac, I'd buy it in an instant.

Oh dear. I don't think I'll leave my apartment for a week or two.

Re:the whole thing makes me wonder market shares

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem really is that games won't switch to linux/mac because they see no reason to. Games work on the machine I already have and glory be it does everything else I need to. And since I've yet to get a virus or spyware and since Win2000 I don't see blue screens anymore why would I switch?

Re:the whole thing makes me wonder market shares

[Zangief]

Make no bones about it - there is no substantial non-Windows gaming market. No sir. Carmack does this for two reasons - because he can and because it really throws mud in the eye of Microsoft.

As a side note, if you haven't purchased this game, then go out and do so... even if you won't use it. Without id software (and some other keys), gaming would be Windows-only right now.

Mmm...I suppose those PS2, Gamecubes, and Gameboys SPs are used to do text editing, web browsing and email only...

However you are right. The guy has almost singlehandledly keeped OpenGL support alive in the industry.

Re:the whole thing makes me wonder market shares

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah linux is nil but Mac isn't nil at all, there are tons of Mac game ports.
Look at aspyr, macgamefiles.com etc.
Try listing amazon.com games for linux (hardly any) and games for Mac (1,000s)
Obviously it's all tiny compared to PC, PS/2, GameCube etc.

Re:the whole thing makes me wonder market shares

[TheAcousticMotrbiker]

Without id software (and some other keys), gaming would be Windows-only right now.

But, but ..
what about nethack ?

Re:the whole thing makes me wonder market shares

[amigabill]

If the market size was all that mattered, all us Slashdot guys would be using Windows and Linux would not exist.

What's wrong with a port "just because"? If they are confident that their measly market share can pay the license fee to id and the programmers salaries, why the heck not? Heck, I come from Amiga land, where anything is few and far between these days, but we did have shiny retail box native ports of Quake 1, Myst, Heretic 2, and others. And surely our Amiga market is far smaller than the Mac or Linux markets... Now if only I had a G5. (My best Amiga currently only has a G4/800MHz for a Mac emulator to run with) But I have been hoping to buy an iBook next year, maybe they'll have G5 ones by the time I save up the money??

Basic point is, if there's enough of any market to pay the costs involved, what good reason is there to not port games or make originals?

Re:the whole thing makes me wonder market shares

[SC_shooter]

All the companies that publish games for the Mac and for Linux aren't doing it because they're good guys. It's pretty expensive to license and port good games. They're doing it because they think they can make money doing it. And apparently they are, because more games get ported all the time.

Re:the whole thing makes me wonder market shares

[Jord]

You should upgrade to MOO3, you won't need an emulator for it.

Re:the whole thing makes me wonder market shares

[i.r.id10t]

So who should I buy it from to count as a Linux sale?

(Haven't bought yet for that reason, and that I need a bigger/better video card)

Re:the whole thing makes me wonder market shares

[tgd]

Um, why would I buy a game I'm not going to use? If ID isn't releasing games I want on a platform I own, then they should go out of business.

If it turns out the market doesn't care about OpenGL for games, the people have spoken. If that means MS wins, well they played their cards right, I suppose.

But why the hell would I spend $50 just to make a statement no one will hear and, frankly, no one outside the set of people who do that would care about?

Re:the whole thing makes me wonder market shares

[Anonymous Coward]

It may be the only reason we have OpenGL for games, but openGL is never going to go anywere.

Why?

Because DirectX only works on Windows, the industry of 3-d imaging, movies, 3-d applications like MRI type stuff, rendering clusters...

All Unix (and now Linux). All OpenGL.

Also remember that OpenGL and DirectX are not equivilent. OpenGL deals with 3-d only, DirectX deals with 3-d + keyboard/mouse + sound + much more. Typical monolythic Windows mentality vs Unix specific tools/software abstraction layers.

Re:the whole thing makes me wonder market shares

[Anonymous Coward]

Also the game is actually fun.

Don't listen to all the morons, the game is pure single player and my family is addicted to it. My dad, my brother, my other brother, my sister.

Put it on veteren, save alot. It's actually fun.

Re:the whole thing makes me wonder market shares

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you even know what OpenGL is? It's a cross-platform graphics API supported by both hardware manufacturers and ISVs. It's been ported to too many platforms to list.

OpenGL is used for 3D graphics editors, games, visualization, and scientific applications, to name a few. Khronos' OpenGL ES is used in mobile devices and is quickly becoming the standard 3D API for embedded systems. Check out the "Applications and Games" page on www.opengl.org. Notice that the number of OpenGL-based games is far fewer than non-game applications (on any platform).

So, what does any of that have to do with John Carmack?

D3D could never be realized on anything other than Microsoft-supported platforms, which is the main reason why "we've still got OpenGL".

Re:the whole thing makes me wonder market shares

[swv3752]

If there was no carmack then either there would not be a PS2 or else they would have licensed D3D.

Re:the whole thing makes me wonder market shares

[hackstraw]

Make no bones about it - there is no substantial non-Windows gaming market.

I could have sworn you could still buy game consoles like X-box and PS2.

Speaking of game consoles, I don't understand why there simply isn't a better one out there that you can hook up to a computer monitor, HDTV, or a regular TV. I see no need for a top of the line computer for games.

But then again, I'm not a gamer.

Re:the whole thing makes me wonder market shares

[b-baggins]

Aspyr does a very good business porting Mac games. The problem is, the Mac market is actually quite profitable, especially the home/soho market, but the PERCEPTION is that it is not, and the few companies who make good money in that market BECAUSE of that perception have no incentive to change that perception.

So, while folks on slashdot go on and on about how miniscule the Mac market share is, blah, blah, blah, companies like Aspyr, Ambrosia, Mark/Space, the Omnigroup, Unsanity, etc. run solid businesses writing Mac software.

Re:the whole thing makes me wonder market shares

[Anonymous Coward]

Uhg, moo3 was the worst game I've ever played. I can't belive it took them that long to make such a piece of crap.

Re:the whole thing makes me wonder market shares

[Mildew Man]

Make no bones about it - there is no substantial non-Windows gaming market.

I can't seem to find numbers on the web but I seem to remember a statistic that Mac owners purchase 2-3 times the software (not sure if that also applies to games) than the average PC owner. Even though the market share is 2% the installed base is more like 8-10%

Please correct me if I am wrong with the numbers I am pulling from memory: 25 million Macs of the 240 million computers in the US (sorry, can't seem to find world-wide figures). That means the Mac market buys more like a 16-30% market. If I were a business, I wouldn't ignore a possible 30% of the market.

Also, remember that if for some wild reason Microsoft stopped selling Windows.The Windows PC market share would be zero but there still would be an installed base of ~210 million computers to sell sofware and services. It's never really about market share and all about installed base and their buying behaviors.

Re:the whole thing makes me wonder market shares

[Zangief]

AFAIK, the Gamecube and N64, use a propietary version of OpenGL, so this is another independent support for OpenGL (but, since is propietary, isn't too important). Rmmember that the N64 was developed in collaboration with Silicon Graphics.

I don't know if the PS or PS2 have their own graphics library. I guess so, but, since every developer hates developing for those consoles, I guess that, if they exist, they suck (ergo, they are not OpenGL or D3D :)

Re:the whole thing makes me wonder market shares

[BrerBear]

The Mac game market isn't that bad. I used to be a serious PC gamer, but consoles have pretty much taken over that addiction. Still, there are a few PC gems every now and then, but a lot more of them than you might expect are ported to Mac.

If you are a PC game fanatic, the Mac is not for you. Games take longer to get here, and some games won't get there at all. But if you are a casual PC gamer, the Mac really isn't that bad these days. It's much better than it was a few years ago.

We get all of the Blizzard games simultaneous with the PC. Many of the most successful FPS games make it, but they may appear months later due to the porting process. The kind of games that casual gamers play alot are usually there -- Myst (ship hybrid CDs), the Sims and its variants, etc. The big names also arrive, titles like KotOR, Splinter Cell, Call of Duty, Halo, etc.

You can find out more at sites like Inside Mac Games. Switching to Mac is definitely not a blocker for casual gaming, and it seems to be getting better all the time.

Re:the whole thing makes me wonder market shares

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmm.. What's this on my desk? It appears to be a copy of Star Wars Battlegrounds for Mac =O.

Re:the whole thing makes me wonder market shares

[Anonymous Coward]

For Linux generally the companies make the clients free and tell them to get the data files from the windows CD... like Doom 3, its available for Linux, and as of right now not Mac. That shows that ID Software obviously made Linux a higher priority for a gaming platform since they believed it would bring them more sales. Additionally, the Linux client is free while the Mac client is not. Linux/x86 is a better gaming platform then Macs.

Re:the whole thing makes me wonder market shares

[CronoCloud]

I actually have a PS2 (with Linux kit installed) whose sole purpose is text editing, web browsing and email. (and other things)

Re:the whole thing makes me wonder market shares

[Zangief]

woah. Well, if you don't mind using a TV for all this, and space isn't a problem, I can understand that.

Re:the whole thing makes me wonder market shares

[47Ronin]

How about some featured new games for Mac and a [large] partial list of the already available games... not to mention a whole massive list of games from independent companies

Re:the whole thing makes me wonder market shares

[Anonymous Coward]

This looks like a netcraft confirms post to me...

Re:the whole thing makes me wonder market shares

[LSD-25]

You should upgrade to MOO3, you won't need an emulator for it.

He could also look for a copy of the Mac version of MOO 2.

Re:the whole thing makes me wonder market shares

[swimmar132]

Lol.

Carmack might've kept OpenGL alive in the game industry. But there's so many scientific / industrial applications in OpenGL... it's not going anywhere anytime.

Re:the whole thing makes me wonder market shares

[Zork the Almighty]

And it's been a great boon to some people that those scientific apps run well on cheap commodity hardware. Thank you Carmack!

Re:the whole thing makes me wonder market shares

[Ohreally_factor]

just for you!

Re:the whole thing makes me wonder market shares

[King_TJ]

From what I've read, the Mac gaming companies do have a real challenge making the sale of games a profitable venture.

I think Aspyr recently said that they have a certain percentage of games developed and released for Mac that aren't ever profitable, so that's figured into the business model. They pretty much expect a ratio like 1 in 8 or 1 in 6 not making money, so it has to be covered by the rest.

Maybe this is true for PC game titles too, actually, but probably not to nearly the same extent. I'm sure with a 90%+ greater potential market out there for them, they *usually* at least break even on them after they're on the shelves long enough.

What you do see, though, is a much more careful, conservative approach to game development. They wait and see how a game fares on the PC and/or on consoles before they make the move to port it over. That means on the Mac, the only really innovative games you'll see for it first are released by the shareware/freeware authors.

Re:the whole thing makes me wonder market shares

[Brewdles]

"Also remember that OpenGL and DirectX are not equivilent. OpenGL deals with 3-d only, DirectX deals with 3-d + keyboard/mouse + sound + much more. Typical monolythic Windows mentality vs Unix specific tools/software abstraction layers."

Compare apples to apples then. OpenGL vs Direct3D. DirectX doesn't force you to use it's sound/input/networking/etc. components if you just want to use D3D.

Re:the whole thing makes me wonder market shares

[Brewdles]

"I can't seem to find numbers on the web but I seem to remember a statistic that Mac owners purchase 2-3 times the software (not sure if that also applies to games) than the average PC owner. Even though the market share is 2% the installed base is more like 8-10%"

Because it's easy for Windows users to pirate the software they want?

Re:the whole thing makes me wonder market shares

[Anonymous Coward]

I too would immediately buy Rome Total War as well as many others I already purchased on PC if they were available for MAC. In fact I would also buy a new G4 powerbook and ditch my IBM based completely. I'm ready to switch to MAC if the apps are there. Perhaps MAC should be encouraging with financial incentives porting more apps to improve their market share on their PCs instead of everyone trying to prove financial models for specific games.

Good to see...

[jmcmunn]

Good to see that now that the election is over people move back to talking about the important things in life...like Doom 3 on the Mac?

Anyway, that's good for Mac users I guess. Now I guess my excuse of "I can't play any games that I want to on a Mac, so I use Windows instead" is not 100% correct. Except I have never been a huge Doom fan. Or a FPS fan in general. I did love FarCry though.

When is GTA San Andreas coming out on the Mac? That's what I really need to get me to switch to mac.

Re:Good to see...

[fr0dicus]

Just get a cheap Mac and a PS2. Case closed.

Re:Good to see...

[lowe0]

What about Half-Life 2? It's gonna be frickin' huge, and it's PC only, with rumors of a Xbox version sometime in the future.

I love my Mac, but there's just no competing with Windows for gaming.

Re:Good to see...

[capmilk]

And an Xbox. Halo 2 will be out there soon.

Re:Good to see...

[caitsith01]

PS2 is the cruddiest of the current gaming technology still on the market. Bad frame rates, poor textures, bad (IMHO) controls... it stinks, it stinks, it stinks. Yeeees Mr Sherman, eeeverything stinks.

Sure, I'll get a 'cheap' Mac. In the year 2100. I want a Mac, but every time I look at the prices I can't bring myself to abandon good old cheap, fast AMD.

Re:Good to see...

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks for that completely non-insightful pile of shit thinly masquerading as a post, you pompous imbecile. Please believe me when I say no one gives a tin shit if you ever switch to Mac or not.

Re:Good to see...

[aristotle-dude]

You can pick up an iBook from Amazon for 850 after the 150 dollar mail in rebate.

Re:Good to see...

[Anonymous Coward]

And a GameCube. Metroid Prime 2 will be out there soon, and Geist will be out later too. For that matter, Metroid Prime Echoes looks like it's going to rock on the Nintendo DS, so I've pre-ordered the DS and am looking forward to the multiplayer wireless levels in the demo.

I've got MP2 for GameCube pre-ordered too. It's going to be good, no question about it, just from what the developer trailers show. I'm waiting to see whether Halo 2 falls into the "too ambitious to be as good as it's hyped" category, and I'm not liking what I've seen of it so far.

Re:Good to see...

[Anonymous Coward]

Whoops, make that MP Hunters on the DS. MP 2 Echoes is the GameCube game.

Re:Good to see...

[Anonymous Coward]

When is GTA San Andreas coming out on the Mac? That's what I really need to get me to switch to mac.

I'm on a Mac already, but getting GTA:SA or GTA:VC for my PowerBook would be too good to be true.

Good thing about Mac gaming:

[palad1]

At least with the delay, we all know doom3 isn't worth it.

That's the only time it ever felt good to be a Mac gamer!

Re:Good thing about Mac gaming:

[TheRaven64]

Doom 3 is a great technology demo for the new id FPS engine. It's just a surprise so many people mistake it for a game.

Re:Good thing about Mac gaming:

[Skuld-Chan]

That it one cool thing about being a Mac gamer - you know which games are good because you can play all of them at least a year earlier on the PC.

Re:Good thing about Mac gaming:

[Drakonian]

That's the only time it ever felt good to be a Mac gamer!

Are you kidding me? Nothing compares to the thrill of a 10 person Photoshop deathmatch!

Re:Good thing about Mac gaming:

[MikeXpop]

Make no mistake, VNC, photoshop, and a digital camera are a whole lotta fun at a lan party.

Re:Good thing about Mac gaming:

[Brewdles]

Hopefully one of the licensees will build a game out of it...

No Surprise

[Anonymous Coward]

...indicate that a G5 processor will be required, which seems quite surprising as it will leave iBooks and Powerbooks owners on the side of the road.

Given the horsepower required by Doom 3, it's no surprise. Don't forget, you also need world-class video to run the game well.

Being that the gameplay sucks, it really doesn't matter.

Re:No Surprise

[caitsith01]

True. Not many PC laptop owners will be playing Doom III either, unless they have one of these.

Re:No Surprise

[fafaforza]

Doom 3 plays pretty well on my Thinkpad T42. I have a 64meg Radeon 9600 so that probably helps. But the card isn't a rarity in laptops. And I don't need to settle for a 10 pound beast with a 1 hour battery time.

OS X 10.3.6

[Ballresin]

It's funny they say you need 10.3.6... because it doesn't exist yet.

Nice thing is, this means the iMac G5 can play Doom 3.

Re:OS X 10.3.6

[adzoox]

Actually it's been final seeded to developers (about a week ago) - it is inevitable that it will be out before February.

Aspyr is saying this because Apple is completely rewriting the video drivers in this next point release.

Re:OS X 10.3.6

[execom]

It's because of bugs in the OpenGL drivers, that seem to be fixed in the 10.3.6 version
I guess ID Software and Apple have worked together on theses problems.

As for Linux version (with the poor ATI support for Doom3), I'm really glad that such application like Doom3 shed the light on bugs and force the constructors (like nVidia, ATI or Apple) to improves their OpenGL implementations.
This is a benefit for all the OpenGL developers, especially on OSX, where alternative to OpenGL is out of question.

Re:OS X 10.3.6

[Anonymous Coward]

Contrary to popular belief as shown on this site, articles are often NOT optional in the English language.

Re:OS X 10.3.6

[chochos]

What is really surprising is that Doom 3 requires a G5. With the hardware standards they usually set for their games, I thought they were going to ask for a G6...

I would like to see justification for this

[adzoox]

I would like a small blurb on the Aspyr website as to why this very assertive requirement was necessary.

I hardly see why a 1.25 Ghz G4 with a 64MB or better video card could not handle this game.

A 1.25 G4 with 512MB RAM and a 64MB video card is equivalent to the PC and Linux requirements - at least as far as speed and price point equivalency (benchmark tests would indicate so)

I especially can't see why Aspyr can't write something for Dual G4 optimization like Unreal and Call for Duty have.

Re:I would like to see justification for this

[obsid1an]

Well the PC system requirements are almost exactly the same. A 1.5 GHz P4, 384MB RAM, and a 64MB video card (Radeon 8500/Geforce3+) are required. The game might run on a 1.25GHz G4 but I doubt id/Activision/Aspyr really wants to support questions on why the game runs bad. Hardly anything that needs justification.

Re:I would like to see justification for this

[Loco3KGT]

Doom 3 wasn't programmed with SMP optimizations like Quake3 was. Do you really expect Aspyr to re-thread the entire game to better support dual processors?

Re:I would like to see justification for this

[Anonymous Coward]

But 1.25Ghz G4 benchmarks at about a 2.2Ghz P4!

Re:I would like to see justification for this

[krunk7]

A 1.5 ghz P4 is much slower than a 1.5ghz G5. G5 proc preformance per mhz is more on the same scale as the AMD chips.

Re:I would like to see justification for this

[capmilk]

Do you really expect Aspyr to re-thread the entire game to better support dual processors?

Yes. :-)

Re:I would like to see justification for this

[Cirrius]

Actually Aspyr is only publishing it. The Mac port is being complete by id, and most likely being put together solely by TTimo.

Re:I would like to see justification for this

[Anonymous Coward]

A 1.5 ghz P4 is much slower than a 1.5ghz G5. G5 proc preformance per mhz is more on the same scale as the AMD chips.

Agreed.. except that even on my 2200 Mhz Athlon XP with a GeForce 6800 and a gig of RAM, it can bog in spots.. this is 800x600 with all the goodies turned on.

Re:I would like to see justification for this

[MacGod]

It might well play on that system... I've often played games on Macs below the listed minimum specs. But this way, if someone tries to play it on a 1.25gHz G4, they're on their own. If they get crappy framerates, they can't call up and bitch about it, since they're well under the stated minimum specs.

Re:I would like to see justification for this

[Anonymous Coward]

As a former employee of Aspyr, I know their system requirements usually come out of the marketing department, not from the developers/porters. So I wouldn't read any more into these reqs than "this game needs speed, lets recommend a 1.5GHz G5", not even being aware that this isn't even an offered speed..

Its also entirely likely that the game was ported with a G5 system and just never tested on any lesser hardware.

Re:I would like to see justification for this

[DudemanX]

I'm no Mac guy, but isn't that G4 choked by a 133Mhz FSB while the P4 is running 800Mhz(200x4)? Doom hasn't really been out long enough to notice a trend, but Quake3 scales VERY well with bus/memory speed increases. Doom3 might just need the bandwidth that only the top of the line FSBs can provide. Something to think about....

Re:I would like to see justification for this

[pretoris]

I hardly see why a 1.25 Ghz G4 with a 64MB or better video card could not handle this game.

It could be the fact that a 1.25 GHz G4 only has a 167 MHz bus. I would think that the video card would starve with Doom 3 on anything less than a G5 machine with its 600 MHz, 900 MHz, 1 GHz, and 1.25 GHz per-processor frontside busses.

Re:I would like to see justification for this

[jschottm]

That would be great, if we were talking about G5s. However, we are in fact talking about G4s, which are *substantially* slower than G5s.

Re:I would like to see justification for this

[Anonymous Coward]

The main reason for the G5 requirement is more along the lines of the FRONT-SIDE BUS (how quickly the processor can fetch from RAM).

G4-class machines = 167 MHz

G5-class machines = 600 MHz on the iMac, 1.8 GHz single G5 desktop,1/2 the processor speed on the higher-end desktops.

Re:I would like to see justification for this

[goMac2500]

Glenda Adams of Aspyr has commented that Doom 3 contains no SMP code and she doesn't plan to add any.

Re:I would like to see justification for this

[krunk7]

My bad, I was going by the first post modded "informative 5" no less, that states the spec as:

G5 1.5ghz

Linux/x86

[RAMMS EIN]

Of course, the Linux client is an x86 binary, so running Linux on your mac won't help. That is, until we get really good binary translators, which might just happen, given the work that's being done for JVM bytecode and .NET IL.

Re:Linux/x86

[Anonymous Coward]

C3PO is a good binary translator

Doesn't look good for the new iMac

[Anonymous Coward]

Looking over the PC benchmarks for the GeForce FX 5200 there is little chance of running this game in XGA. I'm hoping Apple beefs up the video power after Tiger is released, then they will have an unbeatable package.

Re:Doesn't look good for the new iMac

[vasqzr]

I could have swore that when the new iMac came out, Apple had a blurb on their webpage about how it would run Doom 3.

Now I can only find UT 2004. Link

Re:"Hell just froze over"

[paedobear]

You do realise that Doom 3 was originally shown on a Mac, right? And a GeForce 3 IIRC.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here...

[harikiri]

And say the reason you need a G5 is because Aspyr can't be bothered optimising for G4 systems. Simple solution - require G5's.

Re:I'm gonna go out on a limb here...

[HAKdragon]

Except, according to both the first post and Aspyr's website, the game is being developed by iD while Aspyr is the publisher.

Re:I'm gonna go out on a limb here...

[grag]

Actually, the system requirements are preliminary. We usually guess higher, and then readjust the requirements the closer we get to Final Candidate. I believe this happened to RTCW for Mac, but I would have to ask someone who was the project lead for RTCW for Mac.

This is done to prevent customers making a preorder for the game, only to find out that the requirements have been raised at the last minute.

Re:I'm gonna go out on a limb here...

[linuxpng]

I'm going to get modded down to hell and back but I think Aspyr's ports (coincedentally) are less optimized than from different publishers. Maybe they have different requirements, I don't know. It seems macsoft and others have much more complete and functioning ports.

It's a sad state when they first release a game and it has bugs after these things have been on the pc side for so long. Knights of the Old Republic was the first game that I bought from them that had such a bug. The autosaves were broken on release (not such a big deal) and sound was completely broken on their patch (a bigger deal). You revert, but it reeks of sloppiness.

Re:I'm gonna go out on a limb here...

[Trurl's Machine]

I'm going to get modded down to hell and back but I think Aspyr's ports (coincedentally) are less optimized than from different publishers.

I have the same feeling. The most annoying part is that they often don't behave Mac-like (for example, command-q often doesn't work as quick quit). How much I miss the good old days, when Mac ports of games like Doom had even Mac-like "file" menu, with command-s for save etc! Nowadays they just take console/Wintel game and port it "as is", without any Mac modifications.

Re:I'm gonna go out on a limb here...

[selderrr]

The issue is that almost all the G4 machines do not have a required 3D card. The quicksilver G4s had a GeF4MX if I recall correctly, which is theoretically sufficient for D3, but if you try to play with it, it's just not doable : as soon as there is a 3+ monster fight, the stuttering is so much that you can't aim properly anymore.

Re:I'm gonna go out on a limb here...

[Pope]

Not true. My Sawtooth came with a Rage 128, but that sure doesn't mean the Radeon 8500 I replace it with doesn't work! There are upgrade options out there for any AGP-equipped Mac, and if you want to take a chance on flashing, there are even more.

Re:I'm gonna go out on a limb here...

[13Echo]

The Linux version suffered a performance hit because of the lack of optimizations for certain instruction sets through compiling with GCC. I wonder if this will be similar on Mac machines because of GCC's G5 support? I do know that the Linux port, while functional, didn't run quite as well as I anticipated. I'm not running a "high-end" machine by any means, but I wasn't able to squeeze as much out of this game on my Athlon 2400+ with a GF FX 5900 XT as I had originally anticipated. The game is EXTREMELY CPU dependant. With a 3 GHz CPU, however, it probably could run very well in 1024x768 high detail with 4x gaussian 9-tap antialiasing. I think I was able to get 800x600 in medium detail on my machine (with 4x gaussian 9-tap antialiasing).

The performance on Linux was not comparable with Windows (with the initial binary release), and I suspect that the Mac performance will not be as nice as many people would hope as well. Maybe the Linux version performance will improve with the next release (there are some estimates of as much as 10%), but I think I'll wait to buy it until I can get the best performance possible.

Re:I'm gonna go out on a limb here...

[Anonymous Coward]

Does that mean you're going to need... GASP! TWO mouse buttons?! Oh GOD, how PCish!

But how

[Uninen]

..can I play this with my PowerBook which has only one-button (touchpad)mouse?

Re:But how

[Trurl's Machine]

..can I play this with my PowerBook which has only one-button (touchpad)mouse?

As a hardcore powerbook/iBook gamer I can assure you that the main obstacle is the touchpad itself. Touchpad is fine for GUI, but its nearly useless in 3D gaming. For my gaming pleasures, I always carry a tiny USB mouse with my iBook.

Re:But how

[Uninen]

..can I play this with my PowerBook which has only one-button (touchpad)mouse?

Ok, replying to myself after RTFM.

It's so obvious: only G5:s are able to handle the enormous power needed for controlling mouse with two buttons.

But wait.. what about scroll-wheel?

Re:But how

[Anonymous Coward]

with any of these

Re:But how

[DavidLeblond]

Read the blurb... y o u c a n ' t.
(Unless you happen to have a G5 Powerbook, which I highly doubt.) :P

Re:But how

[Anonymous Coward]

> As a hardcore powerbook/iBook

BreakOut, Super BreakOut... (photoshop) ?

Is that you ? http://www.ugo.com/channels/games/features/switch/

Re:But how

[Trurl's Machine]

BreakOut, Super BreakOut... (photoshop) ?

Currently XIII

Re:But how

[dr_d_19]

For my gaming pleasures, I always carry a tiny USB mouse with my iBook.

WOAH! There's a bunch of geeks here you know. My head nearly spun off scanning a sentence containing "pleasure" and "mouse". Take it easy man!

Re:But how

[KDR_11k]

Considering that Doom 3 has no secondary fire there's nothing you'd need a second mouse button for, anyway. Okay, so you could bind the flashlight or zoom to it but seriously, you'll never use the zoom and the flashlight can be bound to a key instead.

Re:But how

[Anonymous Coward]

>But wait.. what about scroll-wheel?

You'll have to wait for the G6 for that, my friend.

Re:But how

[Anonymous Coward]

I game on a one-button touchpad. I've yet to find a game to make me need or even want a mouse or second button.

Re:But how

[douthat]

I've been having fun playing World of Warcraft on my powerbook. And for the record, even though Blizzard's system requirements say the game requires a 933MHz G4 or faster, the game runs just fine on an 867MHz G4. It just burns your lap after a while :) Anyone know where I can get one of those laptop coolers?

Re:But how

[Alioth]

Touchpads are hopeless for all gaming. The solution: USB mice are dirt cheap. I have a USB mouse and keyboard (+ big CRT monitor) I plug the PowerBook into when I'm at home.

Re:But how

[fafaforza]

Alright. I think it is time for you to give up on the single-mouse-button joke. You've had two tries and the next one is worse and more devoid of any comedy than the one before it. If you make another joke, I think a comedy black hole will open up and swallow Chris Rock, Dave Chappelle and Jim Carrey.

G5 Requirement...

[autojive]

Could it be that Aspyr/id only made the Doom3 client for Mac with 64 bit code? Would that be the reason to require a "G5 or better"?

Re:G5 Requirement...

[lowe0]

The Windows version's 32-bit. Carmack used to say that the engine actually ran slower in 64-bit mode, and that there wouldn't be 64-bit binaries for Doom. I haven't seen anything recent from him on the topic... if id's licensees are demanding it, then the code's probably 64-bit ready, but until we know one way or another, we only have the original statement to go off of.

Re:G5 Requirement...

[sagei]

Could it be that Aspyr/id only made the Doom3 client for Mac with 64 bit code? Would that be the reason to require a "G5 or better"?

Doubtful since the current Mac OS X ABI does not support 64-bits. In other words, G5 systems are still running in 32-bits--both the apps and the OS. Tiger is supposed to provide full 64-bit support. The only 64-bit support in the ABI right now is storing C99 "long long" types in a single GPR.

Re:G5 Requirement...

[Pluribus]

The most likely reason for the G5 requirement is the HUGE performance difference out of the compilers for G4 vs. G5. Given the PPC processors, there are a ton of performance optimizations that can be done on the G5 that hurt performance on the G4. And frankly given that most x86 programers seem to do float/int conversions with impunity and not worry about the performance hits (Since they are basicly free on the x86), Optimizing for the faster processor makes sense. (For those that dont know, on the PPC processor float/int conversions are THE most expensive operation to do in terms of performance that are possible (Ask IBM why) and game developers seem to rely on them ALOT.

Re: Unlisted requirement:

[Alwin Henseler]

Also needed: the guts to step into the Doom 3 environment.

Resistance is futile - you will be eaten

Pear PC

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't wait to run it on PearPC... :/

Re:Pear PC

[sidepocket]

everybody knows CherryPC 0wNZ PearPC 31337 hA>0R!

Press release from Blue's

[Anonymous Coward]

here. NB it reads as if ID *are* doing the port themselves, and Aspyr just publishing it:

Aspyr Media, Inc. announced today that it is bringing id Software's critically acclaimed blockbuster hit, DOOM 3, to Macintosh. The game is under development for Macintosh by id Software, and will be published by Aspyr Media, Inc.

The ruins of an ancient Martian civilization have unlocked the secrets to teleportation and the Union Aerospace Corporation will stop at nothing to harness this world-altering technology. As part of a Marine detachment sent to protect the facility, your duty seemed simple enough until the invasion. Now, in an epic clash against pure evil you must fight to understand who is with you, who is against you, and what must be done to stop this nightmare from reaching earth.

"DOOM 3 has instantly become a must have title for any game fan, and were thrilled to be working with Aspyr in bringing this landmark game to the Macintosh," said Todd Hollenshead, CEO, id Software. "Now, Macintosh owners can experience for themselves the unparalleled combination of bleeding-edge technology and edge-of-your-seat gameplay that critics and fans are raving about."

DOOM 3's dramatic storyline, pulse-pounding action, and incredible graphics, combine to produce the most frightening and gripping gaming experience ever created. DOOM 3 utilizes id Software's revolutionary new 3D graphics engine to create disturbingly realistic graphics, with never before seen detail and real-time lighting. Players can fight the forces of evil as a lone marine or battle other marines in team or deathmatch-based multiplayer modes.

The game is rated "M" for "Mature" by the ESRB and is available for preorder at www.aspyr.com for $49.99. For more information, fans can visit www.doom3.com or http://www.aspyr.com/games.php/mac/d3/.

And we all know...

[CodeWanker]

That the huge banner advert for Doom 3 next to this story listing on /. was PURELY coincidental. Purely.

Huh

[Morgahastu]

If only they released a free client like on Linux? It's not free, you still need to buy the game and then download the linux client.

Re:Huh

[TheRaven64]

This does, however, make moving platforms easier. I have a copy of the original Quake. It came with a DOS executable. Later, I started using WinQuake and playing it in Windows NT 4. When I got a VooDoo^2, I downloaded the GLQuake executable and got 3D acceleration. When I started using FreeBSD on my `work'station I was able to compile and install the GLQuake executable for X, and continue playing. When I got a Mac, I downloaded another GLQuake executable and, again, continued playing. Since the game engine code (progs.dat / qwprogs.dat) for Quake 1 was interpreted bytecode, I was able to move between CPU architectures without any problems - at most a download and compile. No other game that I've bought has had this much portability, and since I no longer own a Windows machine, a lot of the games I own are useless.

Re:Huh

[ildon]

progs.dat is NOT engine code. It's game logic code. That just means you don't have to recompile MODS, it has nothing to do with the engine. Quake2 moved to dlls/so's and mods had to be compiled seperately for both, Quake3 moved to virtual machine sort of system to prevent cheating and make the game more consistent across platforms, and it seems Doom3 is once again going back to the dll/so system (with merged client/server code into one dll and a seperate pk4 file for code for purity checks).

Once again, progs.dat/qwprogs.dat is GAME LOGIC ONLY and only used by the server (the clients were dumb). The only reprecussions (for this argument) were that it made MODS automatically cross-platform (which wasn't even the primary intention iirc).

iBook and Powerbook?

[Anonymous Coward]

surprising as it will leave iBooks and Powerbooks owners on the side of the road

What is even more surprising is that it leaves me with my (upgraded) Dual-1.0Ghz Powermac G4, 1 GB RAM and a nice ATI Radeon 8500 on the side of the road...
So far, my machine has served me very well for games (I love UT2004), but now I may have to get a new Mac :-(

Seems my poor Powermac is doomed...

Re:"Hell just froze over"

[Trurl's Machine]

Doom 3...on a Mac?

Where's the surprise? Wolfenstein 3D was commercially ported for Mac. Doom I was commercially ported for Mac. Doom II was commercially ported for Mac. Quake was commercially ported for Mac. Quake II was commercially ported for Mac. Quake III was commercially ported for Mac. Return To Castle Wolfenstein was commercially ported for Mac. What's, exactly, so surprising in Doom III being commercially ported for Mac?

GTA San Andreas on ANY computer...

[Polaris]

When's it coming out on PC, for that matter? It's not even an X-Box title, you can ONLY play it on PS2

Re:GTA San Andreas on ANY computer...

[Sputum]

I'd wouldn't be surprised if both versions exist already and are just waiting for some exclusive deal from Sony to expire.

Re:GTA San Andreas on ANY computer...

[Sinus0idal]

Indeed, I find it ridiculous, especially because GTA began its life on the PC.

Re:GTA San Andreas on ANY computer...

[erick99]

It would have to be a business decision regarding how to most quickly recover their development and marketing costs. I don't know that they particularly cared much which platform it debuted on so long as they can get on the road to profitability as soon as possible.

I would have thought that the PC market would have been bigger than the PS2 market but if that were the case, I think they would have started with the PC.

I can imagine the development costs were up there though I don't think it will take long to recover those costs. Then, they can begin to work on PC, XBox, Mac, and whatever other platforms they choose to support.

Re:GTA San Andreas on ANY computer...

[jmcmunn]

I have read on several sites that it is scheduled for release on the PC by next June.

Bad news though...no confirmed release date for the Xbox. And I dare not think about it ever being on the Mac.

However, since rumor has it that the next-gen Xbox development is being done on Macs, the theory goes that porting games to the Mac should not be difficult. Unfortunately, I think MS would have different ideas about that happening.

And to reply to a post further down...yes it is an exclusivity deal that holds things up. Damn Sony for that deal. I am sure the PC version is done or almost done now, there seems no need to wait, other than the contract. Surely, it would make more profit overall if they released both at the same time?

Re:GTA San Andreas on ANY computer...

[Cirrius]

You can blame warez for that. PC titles are quickly becoming a dead platform. With console development you can make an average game, sell 300-500k and see a very small percentage of warez. With a pc game good luck even selling 300-500k, although you will easily see 100k+ downloads through various warez channels on any decent title.

Re:GTA San Andreas on ANY computer...

[marmoset]

Support costs are far higher on the PC -- you have to test against different video cards, memory configfurations, soundcards, etc. Consoles provide a very small, fixed set of possible configs to test against.

Re:GTA San Andreas on ANY computer...

[strider44]

You're talking as if warez was extinct on the PS2. It's not exactly hard to pirate console games (except I don't think I'd have the guts for the Game Cube!), especially in my experience for the XBox.

Re:GTA San Andreas on ANY computer...

[waynelorentz]

Consoles provide a very small, fixed set of possible configs to test against.

Sounds like a Mac -- a fixed number of upgrade options. And pretty much any Mac that runs OS X is going to have very similar specs. Seems like one of the things that the Wintel world bashes Apple about would make it an easier platform to develop games for. Not necessarily more profitable, but certainly easier.

Re:GTA San Andreas on ANY computer...

[druhol]

The point isn't that pirating console games is particularly hard, just that it's more of a hassle than pirating PC games. You gotta download the game, burn it to a compatable CD format... And unless I'm mistaken, most consoles won't accept burned CDs without a mod chip. It's just more of a hassle than your average joe-shmoe gamer would be willing to go through.

Re:GTA San Andreas on ANY computer...

[bnenning]

especially because GTA began its life on the PC.

And Halo began life on the Mac...

cultural differences

[dynayellow]

Too bad iD Software didn't release a free OSX client like they previously did for linux version of the game.

Don't be too confused; it's just because Mac users are willing to, you know, pay for software.

Re:cultural differences

[wed128]

I'll have you know i paid for doom III and UT2004 exclusevely for use on a linux platform. Just because we have to download the free binary to play it doesnt mean we dont have to pay for things like textures levels etc...

Re:cultural differences

[TheRaven64]

So you're saying that you consider that the artwork in the game has value, but the code doesn't? Interesting perspective.

Re:cultural differences

[Lieutenant_Dan]

I don't think that's what he means. Of course the binaries have (even greater) value.

It just makes distribution/packaging a lot simpler. Sell the DVD with the Win version that contains all the game data, but makes the executable for other OSes free. So if you want to run it on Linux, you can download the binary, but the levels/textures can only be obtained on the DVD.

Otherwise they would have to ship Win, OSX, Linux, Unix, Alpha, etc all with their own packaging. Probably with Linux users, the audience is much smaller that it doesn't warrant the creation of new packaging, etc. Win folks will get their packaging, MacOS will because instructions may differ and this group wants the glossy manuals, but Linux-heads will just want to play the game and will usually be a lot more computer-savyer than the average gamer (my opinion).

Re:cultural differences

[wed128]

Exactly. Thanks for writing this so i didn't have to.

Re:cultural differences

[incom]

I must have been halucinating when I bought my doom3 copy to run on linux. Just because we don't like paying for cruddy little screensavers and little addon apps that fill the functionality void in windows, doesn't mean we don't spend real money on linux software. There would also be more sales if there were more consumer oriented commercial software for linux (not much out there right now).

Re:cultural differences

[ildon]

Who said the Mac binaries would not be available for download, and when? They certainly sold Quake3 for Mac and Linux in stores and that didn't prevent them from also making the binaries available online.

Re:cultural differences

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey that's really funny! You make it sound like Mac users have the option not to buy the software!

Good discussion on IMG

[Anonymous Coward]

There is a good (heated) discussion on IMG (Inside Mac Games) about why Doom 3 for Mac has much higher requirements than on other platforms. Basically there are two sides:

1) Because, as usual, the Mac port by Aspyr sucks rocks or
2) Becasue, as usual, the Mac port by Aspyr sucks great big rocks

Actually, there are also people who think it is "normal" for a port to require vastly more processing power, but those posts are from people who like bloated crappy software.

Here is the link:

http://insidemacgames.com/news/comments.php?Arti cl eID=10390

Re:Good discussion on IMG

[TheDredd]

then again the games ported to the mac by the Omnigroup tend to perform very well, and those are ported to Cocoa!

Re:Good discussion on IMG

[Anonymous Coward]

Or maybe.. just maybe.. the G5 is not as powerful as Apple may have led people to believe? Naw.. That CAN'T be it! Apple would NEVER lie to people!

John Carmack

[haxor.dk]

Is this the same DOOM III game that John Carmack went on stage at MacWorld to present a few years ago, saying that would be out for the Mac, first?

What a crock....

Re:John Carmack

[n0mad6]

That same demo at MacWorld showed off how this game would use the amazing technology of that newfangled graphics card, the "GeForce3". Presumably, this was a card that would run the game flawlessly when it was released :-p

Re:John Carmack

[PeDRoRist]

Actually he said the GeForce 3, which was used for to run the demo, would be available on the Mac first.

Re:John Carmack

[T'hain Esh Kelch]

Is this the same DOOM III game that John Carmack went on stage at MacWorld to present a few years ago, saying that would be out for the Mac, first?
He never said anything about the game being out on the mac first. It was merely shown running on the mac before PC! you might be mistaken by the fact that nVidia announced the GeForce3 at the same Macworld, and stated that it would ship first on the macintosh. That we got the card about 1-2 months after the PC platform when it first shipped, thats a whole other story...

Re:John Carmack

[Warlock7]

Actually, that's the GeForce4MX, which was on the Mac first and shipped out in Macs first. That was in January of 2002. The card was supplied as OEM to the Mac community later, but in the new Quicksilver machines, at that time, it was delivered to the Mac users first. Sorry.

Re:John Carmack

[Warlock7]

You guys are mistaken. The GeForce[b]4MX[/b] was what was first introduced in the Mac in January of 2002 before it was released to the PC world. Not the GeForce3. Actually, it was the first nVidia graphics card on the platform. This was a short while after 3Dfx went out of business and nVidia scooped up their intellectual property.

AWESOME!

[Eric_Cartman_South_P]

The number of good games on the Mac just doubled!

*I own a Powerbook, I'm allowed to love and hate it*

Re:AWESOME!

[Anonymous Coward]

Doubled? So they're gonna release the demo, too?

Re:AWESOME!

[Anonymous Coward]

C'mon -- Breakout, Super Breakout, Photoshop -- this is only a 1/3 increase!

Hey, at least I have better math skills that the AC who responded to you.

Re:AWESOME!

[bug]

Don't forget that neat puzzle game with the apple logo. I beat it already, but it's still fun.

Re:AWESOME!

[SlightlyMadman]

The best part is that your powerbook won't even be able to run it!

I literally just got a brand new iBook from FedEx 20 minutes ago (haven't even cracked the box), and I see these system requirements telling me it's already obselete ;)

Re:AWESOME!

[techwolf]

While I recognize the humor of the original post... tt's not the lack of good games:

Railroad Tycoon 3
Civ 3
Simcity 4
The Sims
Medal of Honor
Jedi Academy
Ghost Recon
Rainbow Six: Athena Sword
Splinter Cell
Halo
Neverwinter Nights

It's the speed at which they are released.

ouch for the price ..

[macaulay805]

I wouldn't mind buying a video card, or a processor, or even more RAM.

But this means a WHOLE NEW COMPUTER for me .. The cheapest iMac G5 is around $1,200 + $50 for the game. I think I'll just get the Xbox version of this game when it is available.

Re:ouch for the price ..

[Anonymous Coward]

I think I'll just get the Xbox version of this game when it is available.

A FPS on the Xbox? Ewwww...

Re:ouch for the price ..

[zackeller]

Don't count on it running well on an iMac G5, either. The graphics card will really bring it down.

For a Mac port announcement, not bad

[Spencerian]

Doom 3 came out only in early August. Knowing how id Software makes fairly tight code, it should not take Aspyr more than 2-3 months to port this baby, based on my experience with how they port. In the Mac world, that's not a bad wait; although Blizzard holds the best release record with Diablo 2 in my mind since the Mac version was out maybe 6 weeks after the PC game release.

Some games Aspyr have ported, like Splinter Cell, took freaking forever to migrate--I would guess that the game used a lot of proprietary code within its XBox and Microsoft game origins. DirectX is a blessing on the PC side, but a curse on Apple gaming since OS X has no successor or counterpart to its past GameSprockets technology in Mac OS 9.

Older Quake-engine games such as Return To Castle Wolfenstein, Jedi Academy and, of course, Quake 3 itself run very well on Macs, even with menial 16MB video cards since the computer processor and video processor try to share the load better, in my opinion, than some stock PCs. It's not surprising that this game will need some real horsepower in video rendering that even challenges the typically graphic-happy Macs.

Re:For a Mac port announcement, not bad

[TheRaven64]

DirectX is a blessing on the PC side, but a curse on Apple gaming since OS X has no successor or counterpart to its past GameSprockets technology in Mac OS 9.

I beg to differ:

• Direct3D - OpenGL, cross platform.
• DirectSound - OpenAL, cross platform.
• DirectShow - QuickTime, Windows and Mac. I don't know of any truly cross platform (Windows, Mac and *NIX) alternatives.
• DirectPlay - OpenPlay, cross platform.
• DirectInput - SDL, cross platform.

Developing a game using DirectX means you can target Windows and XBox. Developing using the alternatives allows you to target Windows, Mac and *NIX, often with only a recompile being needed. While the Mac and *NIX gaming communities are often not large enough to warrant the expenditure of porting a DirectX game, I am somewhat surprised that more companies don't develop using open technologies and get the ports for free.

Re:For a Mac port announcement, not bad

[Anonymous Coward]

Q3 ran just fine on 8 megs VRAM.

Re:For a Mac port announcement, not bad

[Spencerian]

I stand corrected.

However, the existence of these technologies is one thing. I wonder how many games truly utilize them under OS X in comparison to use of DirectX elements in PC games. You may know more about this. It seems like a developer would pick DirectX elements over the cross-platform elements...

Re:For a Mac port announcement, not bad

[Anonymous Coward]

Not to mention, coding for DX is a pain when compared to the alternatives. I'm currently learning the DX API and it's unbelievably uncomfortable. IAAGP (I am a game programmer).

performance

[randalx]

Would be cool to evaluate performance on a Mac vs Windows.

Free for Linux?

[npsimons]

Too bad iD Software didn't release a free OSX client like they previously did for linux version of the game.

Excuse me?.

Re:Free for Linux?

[gid]

I beg your pardon?

Corrected Link

[npsimons]

Corrected link.

Linux Minimum Specs

[Anonymous Coward]

1.5 GHz for Windows OS, but for Linux:

Pentium III, 1Ghz
256Mb RAM
Kernel 2.4, 2.6 is recommended
glibc 2.2 and up

3D card:
NV10 or R200 minimum hardware
OpenGL hardware acceleration
64 MB VRAM

http://zerowing.idsoftware.com/linux/doom//

Compatible with iFruit?

[tjkrz]

Jason Fox is interested:
http://www.ucomics.com/foxtrot/2004/11/01/

Just one thing . . .

[npsimons]

Where's the Linux version?

(for those who didn't get it, yes I am making fun of all the people who asked "where's the mac version?" in response to the announcement of Doom 3 for Linux. And, yes, I already know there's a Linux version)

Re:Just one thing . . .

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry guy, the joke's not funny if you have to explain it.

The mac is not a toy

[fermion]

This will certainly spell the end of the Mac as a commercial/production machine. Instead using it as a serious business tool, employees will now spend their days playing doom3. The Mac advantage, the ability to remove components such as WMP, IE and the like, and thus avoid unnecessary vulnerabilities and distraction for staff and production workers, will be annihilated with this one game.

I long for the days when we Mac user had the freedom to simply create, compile, and compute without these applications of the commoner. To risk a pun, we are doomed.

Re:The mac is not a toy

[javaxman]

This will certainly spell the end of the Mac as a commercial/production machine. Instead using it as a serious business tool, employees will now spend their days playing doom3. The Mac advantage, the ability to remove components such as WMP, IE and the like, and thus avoid unnecessary vulnerabilities and distraction for staff and production workers, will be annihilated with this one game.

It's just a part of the steady decline in productivity that started with Wolfenstein3D and really picked up steam with Unreal Tournament 2004...

An equation for you

[Anonymous Coward]

Firefox + AdBlock = You - (Ulcers * Tinfoil)

Re:"Hell just froze over"

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

Wolfenstein 3D was commercially ported for Mac.

Actually it was ported from the mac. And you forgot Halo, and many others. Support for games on the mac is always behind windows, but if games are your primary use for your computer, maybe a console would be more suitable (and cheaper).

hmm

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you feel threatened by Mac users? A little insecure? If not, why would you react to a little good news by bad-mouthing Mac users? Windows rotten your brain?

Nothing new here

[Anonymous Coward]

Doom has been anounced for Apple at least once a year since 1985.

Re:Nothing new here

[Anonymous Coward]

This is funny, if you don't know what you're talking about. But that's the norm for the PC, wannabe elitists on /.

Is that what we want?

[caitsith01]

An interesting question is, WHY should gamers switch to linux/Mac? For once the major criticisms levelled at Windows/x86 (often with some justification) seem to bounce back as strong arguments for why a Windows PC is the best option for games by a country mile:

- bad at multitasking: I have one task, blasting hell knights in 3D

- controlled by evil Windoze Empire (tm): good, so the Evil Windoze Empire will make sure I have up to date drivers and a relatively good 3D API to run my games with for the widest possible range of gaming hardware

- boring beige boxes and huge market of faceless south-east asian technology clones: excellent, excellent. The priority is surely on getting the fastest technology at the best price as soon as possible, rather than longevity or overall build quality (although arguably that comes through careful component choice). But the average gaming rig is good for about 2 years of cutting edge games, tops, so it's really more important that the price is good and the market highly dynamic rather than everything being perfectly reliable

On the other hand, the key strengths of Mac and Linux are not so important for games.

E.g. Mac:

- border of LCD screen is artistically colour-neutral to allow perfect visual reproduction of colours on-screen (no shit, this is what it says on the Apple website, and yes, I'm being facetious but the point is, Mac features are clearly pitched at the graphic design/artiste market and people who colour coordinate their entire lives)

- entire computer can be crammed into a very small, white rectangle: well, that's bad for upgrading every 6-12 months, bad for cooling, and makes serious competition for upgrade components etc pretty unlikely. But it saves desk space and looks cool, not priorities for the average gamer (yes, case modding is supposed to be 'cool', but you know what I mean, how many case modders build beautiful white objects rather than glowing neon monstrosities?).

- computer is 'lifestyle' accessory: people who play Doom III typically have no discernable lifestyle other than cramming cheese doodles into their already-Mountain-Dew-filled maws and occasionally leaving to sleep or ablute

E.g. Linux:

- it's free: I'm springing $2000 for a games PC and $50 for every game... I think $200 for Windows is not too much of a stretch. Alternatively, I steal everything including the game, Windows, and possibly the PC if I've played too much GTA. Either way, not a big factor.

- run by a horde of nerds who all make up their own standards then engage in massive and endless wars about whose is the gre@test 3733t way of doing things: refer to Evil Windoze scenario above, or search ./ for 'BSD' or 'Gnome AND KDE' for more details.

- most useful features hidden through inherent 'security' though obscurity (i.e. most non-programmer types can't run xclock, let alone install and configure Doom III): su>ors when U just wanna kill something

Anyway, just my thoughts. I see no real reason why people should be encouraged to move away from Win/x86 just to play games, other than the usual 'Bill Gates is satan' reasons.

Re:Is that what we want?

[Anonymous Coward]

Except for the part about gamers abluting, I'd say (from the Mac side) that you're correct. Being a Mac zealot isn't about insisting that every last person needs to use MacOS for every last application.

Re:Is that what we want?

[moonbender]

Those are not the major criticisms levelled at Windows, nor are those the key strengths of either Macs or Linux. In fact, I don't know what that list is supposed to be, and I will leave it at that.

But few people seriously claim Mac and Linux systems are prime gaming platforms, and encourage switching because of it. The opposite is common, ie. people saying they would switch if it weren't for gaming. And some people recommend switching in spite of gaming not being as viable.

Re:Is that what we want?

[node 3]

An interesting question is, WHY should gamers switch to linux/Mac?

Because very few people are solely a gamer or an artist or a business user. For a very large number of people, Linux or Mac OS are the OS best suited for them--unless they are also avid gamers (such that games become a secondary, but real, barrier between them and their ideal OS).

So that leaves us with a number of gamers who want to switch but are discouraged by the (relative) lack of games.

THAT'S why (some) gamers might want to switch to Mac or Linux.

Anyway, just my thoughts. I see no real reason why people should be encouraged to move away from Win/x86 just to play games, other than the usual 'Bill Gates is satan' reasons.

While there is no overwhelming reason to switch from Windows to play games, there are plenty of reasons to switch from Windows in general, and many people already have (or have never ran Windows at home to begin with).

The game industry already ports games to Mac (about 1 in 4 top tier games), and Linux (every now and then), but they could do a lot more. The demand is there, please don't advocate against it.

Re:Is that what we want?

[Have Blue]

Of course, it has to be mentioned that all the arguments for Windows here apply even more strongly to consoles.

Re:Is that what we want?

[westlake]

While there is no overwhelming reason to switch from Windows to play games, there are plenty of reasons to switch from Windows in general, and many people already have (or have never ran Windows at home to begin with).

w3School's stats show XP's market share doubling in two years from 30% to 60%, Linux and the Mac combined from 4% to 6%. OS Platform Statistics The evidence is pretty clear, I think, that home users migrate to newer versions of their Windows or Mac OS and not to alternative operating systems.

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

Let me guess... you saw the face of Jesus in your soup this lunchtime, too?

You read far too much into someone's choice of computer.

Re:And...

[Dan Ost]

I already finished Doom3 over a month ago.

Remind me again how your having already finished the game will diminish
another's gaming experience

id Should Sell Hardware

[WC as Kato]

Every time id comes out with a new game you have to buy a new computer or at least a new video card. Am I the only guy around that doesn't have money to buy new hardware?

It's like I'm at a fast food joint buying Doom3 when the pimply faced teen asks if I would like a processor with that. Damn it! No! I can barely afford the burger. I can't afford fries too!

Re:id Should Sell Hardware

[Anonymous Coward]

"Am I the only guy around that doesn't have money to buy new hardware?"

Yes.

Re:"Hell just froze over"

[bmalnad]

I'm pretty certain that Quake III was released for Mac BEFORE it was released for Windows.

The first and the last!

[Johnny Mozzarella]

Apple was the first to offer the GeForce 3 and will also probably be the last. I can't believe they didn't put something better in at least the 20" iMac G5.

I love Apple and I'm ordering a whole bunch of iMac G5s but I'm not happy about the lack of decent video card options.

Re:The first and the last!

[AusG4]

Umm... the iMac G5's have GeForce FX cards in them.. a furhter 2 generations ahead of the GeForce 3.

Am I missing something here?

Re:The first and the last!

[snuf23]

Well, yes the 5200 is 2 generations ahead of the GeForce3 - but the GeForce3 was the top of the line whereas the 5200 is the bottom of the FX series. Keep in mind also that the FX series is last years line. Even the high end 5950FX is getting spanked by the newer 6800s.
So basically you get last years lowest end model in the iMac. For Doom 3 - if PC framerates are any indication, you will be getting FPS in the 20s at low quality in 800x600. You might as well have a GeForce 3 in there. The 5200s performance is going to be closer to the GeForce 3 than to the higher end cards.
In comparison with a 6800GT you can do 1600x1200 with antialiasing at high quality and get about 40 fps average. 1280x1024 will be completely smooth.

Re:The first and the last!

[Warlock7]

You guys are mistaken. The GeForce4MX was what was first introduced in the Mac in January of 2002 before it was released to the PC world. Not the GeForce3. Actually, it was the first nVidia graphics card on the platform. This was a short while after 3Dfx went out of business and nVidia scooped up their intellectual property.

Sorry, had to repost as I screwed up the HTML...

Re:The first and the last!

[Warlock7]

There was not a GeForce3 for the Mac line of machines. The GeForce4MX was the first nVidia product for the Mac.

Re:The first and the last!

[MojoStan]

The GeForce4MX was what was first introduced in the Mac in January of 2002 before it was released to the PC world. Not the GeForce3. Actually, it was the first nVidia graphics card on the platform.

On 2/21/2001, Apple announced that the GeForce3 would be "coming to the Mac first." On 5/3/2001, GeForce3 cards were shipping for PCs. On 5/21/2001, GeForce3 cards were finally made available at Apple's online store for $499.

Also, the GeForce2 MX was the first NVIDIA card available on the Mac platform - in February 2001.

Links:

2/21/2001: Macworld keynote: GeForce 3 coming to the Mac
5/03/2001: GeForce3 cards arriving -- for PCs
5/21/2001: GeForce3 cards now available to order from Apple Store

Re:The first and the last!

[Warlock7]

My bad about the first nVidia card for the Mac being the 4MX. You are correct that the 2MX was the first one on the platform. Brain f*rt or something there.

My mix up came from the fact that the GeForce4MX, ..."the industry's first NVIDIA GeForce4 graphics card...", was actually released on the Mac platform before it came to the PC world. Now, this doesn't change the fact that the 4MX was really just a turbo charged 2MX and was inferior in performance to the 3, but they did get the 4's first, technically. I apologize for my egregious error.

Also, by 2/22/2001, Apple was updating the Cube with a GeForce2MX in it already. It was on 1/9/2001 that they introduced the PowerMac G4 (Digital Audio) with the GeForce2MX.

Re:The first and the last!

[AusG4]

Then that hash I just smoked must have been -really- good, because I have a GeForce 3 for Macintosh (shipped by Apple) in my hand right now.

Yes... there was a GeForce 3 for the Mac.

Re:And...

[tedgyz]

Sorry. I was feeling particularly mean this morning. I was just taking it out on Macfolk. It is my displaced aggression for being harassed by the gcc crowd for my embrace of Java. :-)

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

I was just taking it out on Macfolk. It is my displaced aggression for being harassed by the gcc crowd for my embrace of Java.

Heathen!!!

Re: Unlisted requirement:

[Zorilla]

You misspelled "tolerance for redundant gameplay".

"id"

[Anonymous Coward]

Too bad iD Software didn't release a free OSX client like they previously did for linux version of the game.

I know this is slightly offtopic, but I'm curious how people got starting using alternate spellings of such a simple company name. I see it a lot on Slashdot, which is kind of surprising since I would imagine they see the all-lowercase spelling plastered all over id's software, webpages and ads. I know this is pathetically splitting hairs, but it's always baffled me why a person would make the effort to capitialize something when the simplest spelling is actually the correct one.

Re:"id"

[gid]

here here... that drives me crazy. For what it's worth, I remember when doom2 first came out, people were calling it iD on usenet as well, so slashdot isn't doing anything new.

There were the same evangilists like you and myself that were correcting them--it's just "id" darn it. I can handle it in posts, but in the article short itself?! I often do wonder who first started it, or if it just a common mistake of those outside of the know.

Re:"id"

[Anonymous Coward]

it's just "id" darn it

Actually, that's not entirely true. Some early id logos had a capitol D. Wolfenstein 3D for example.

Wolfenstein 's id logo.

Re:"id"

[Anonymous Coward]

interesting.... although it looks like it's a capital I that goes along with it. I can handle people who spell it in all uppper case, or even just the I capitalized. But not just the D, that looks idiotic.

Re:"id"

[Anonymous Coward]

Just an FYI, back in the day (original Wolfenstein-era), id was known as "I.D. Software". Then it was shortened to "ID Software". But none of the guys (neither of the Carmacks nor Romero) were too fond of that, but it was already written in stone, appearing in their games and such. Then their publisher at the time (whose name I can't recall) suggested "id" as a reference to the Freudian term for the animalistic portion of the human psyche, and the name stuck.

Jason Fox will be happy

[tunabomber]

See this week's Foxtrot.

Although, if that Stephen Hawking shoot-em-up he's working on ever gets released, maybe whether or not we have Doom3 on Mac will be a moot question.

Re:Jason Fox will be happy

[RatBastard]

I don't know if that iFruit can actually play DOOM3. It looks like one of the older G3 CRT based units.

Great News! But I can't run it...

[Frobozz0]

Well, I had to buy a PC a couple months ago for a project that needed proprietary PC software. Since my Mac is a DP 1GHz G4, I knew full well there'd be no way I'd be able to run Doom 3 on my Mac until I get a G5. So, I bought a new copy from www.gogamer.com for $29.95 for the PC.

I think my Mac has reached the end of it's useful life as a game machine, but it's perfectly usable for everything else... guess I need to buy a G5 to play the latest games. For example, my current Mac is the MINIMUM system requirement for Knights of the Old Republic ...

Bring on the dual 3GHz G5's in Feb/Mar baby! Daddy needs a new one!

Re:Great News! But I can't run it...

[TerrapinOrange]

I have both Knights of the Old Republic and Doom 3 on a newer PC with an older (Geforce2) video card. Doom runs, KOTOR doesn't, so you might not be totally out of luck. Admittadly, I'm not really getting the full Doom 3 experience as I have many of cool effects turned off, but it's still very playable, unlike nearly every other new game I've tried. Some would argue that, as a mostly visual game, crippling in this way defeats the point of playing it, but it's still very pretty even with shadowing and bump mapping turned off, and, despite being repetative, I've found it quite fun. I'd suggest trying it before you shell out for a new system. You almost certainly need something newer to play Doom 3 in all it's glory, but it would likely look pretty good on what you have.

Re: Unlisted requirement:

[Walkiry]

Alternatively, you can just use a cheat to get some goddamned permanent light. I swear the whole "pitch black = scary" bullshit pissed me off the whole 3 hours I managed to play that shit.

yay, mac!

[LabRat404]

mac? games? don't make me laugh.

Doom 3 Rig...

[blakespot]

Looks like some hardware goodness got here just in time, for my dual G5 2.5.

A few reasons

[endrek]

I would imagine part of the reason they require a g5, is because apple's hardware is all tied together and they hay have taken a look at the other things tied to g4s and seen insufficent video cards. I would imagine top of the line video cards are coming out with the top of the line systems. The g4 has somewhat become the apple "budget" system as it is no longer top of the line. So they just decided to target the g5.

Besides, it is a way more powerful cpu, and doom3 does need some cpu power. Lets face it. There are a lot of macs out there that just aren't that powerful.

finally, if they did target g4s which are 32bit, when the binary was run on a g5, it wouldn't be able to take advantage of the g5's better architecture as much. By targeting the g5, specifically, they can get the most out of it, at the cost of dropping g4 support, which isn't that bad because likely the game would run like crap on one anyway.

Lets face it, ppc and macos are not the ideal gaming environment. You want better? grab some x86 hardware and put linux on it. You can do alot, like doom3. You want a dedicated game machine never to be used for anything else? :: shudder :: then put windows on it. That is sadly when the gaming is at.

Evil Windows

[Anonymous Coward]

it isn't so much that the OS is bad as that the EULA is unacceptable. If I do not accept it, I cannot use it (unless I get a cracked copy).

Even where the clauses are not legally binding, the problem is that several of the items are coded in, so there is no way of blocking what you do not want. See, for example, activation.

you are correct sir

[green pizza]

I'm no Mac guy, but isn't that G4 choked by a 133Mhz FSB while the P4 is running 800Mhz(200x4)?

Yep.

But the 1.5 Ghz P4 cited in the parent post would only have a 400 Mhz FSB. I don't think even 533 Mhz FSB came into play until the 2.0 Ghz P4.

This is one of the reasons why many G4 systems had L3 cache, sort of a stop-gap measure between Apple and Motorola to improve performance a tad. Thankfully IBM has much higher FSB on the G5. The dual 2.5 Ghz G5 system has a dedicated 1.25 Ghz bus for *each* CPU. Compare this to a dual or quad Xeon, where all of the CPUs share the same bus. This is one of the reasons why you'll the G5 so far ahead on RAW image conversion and BLAST bioinfometric applications.

Re:free wouldn't make sense!

[klagermkii]

If you've already bought Doom 3 and you've been playing it on your Windows machine, why would you want to run it months and months later on your Mac with its *probably* far slower video card.

This is targeting the Mac people who don't have a Windows machine and would never have bought it anyway.

All that a free client would do is let Windows people lend their Doom 3 games to their Mac friends who would download the patch, which sure wouldn't be good for sales.

*snort*

[jschottm]

Please show some benchmarks to back that up...

Re:*snort*

[adzoox]

www.barefeats.com

here is a page I found as a similar comparison pretty quickly on the barefeats website

Re:*snort*

[jschottm]

So, a "benchmark" (that doesn't included any information on the configuration of the P4) shows that a dual CPU system running one specific application that had been tuned for dual processors and the G4 can sometimes keep up with a single low end P4 that is several steps behind the current generation.

I'm not biased for any particular brand - I'm currently using Dual G5s, Xserves, Athlon MPs, high end P4s, dual P3s, dual and single G4s for various things. But the G4 family really doesn't hold up well compared to a modern system. Using the same rendering software, my dual Athlon eats the dual G4s for breakfast.

Tuxgames

[Anonymous Coward]

buy your game from there. Only problem is that when a second-string release is made (cheapy version from, say, Sold Out), the game is still full price there.

ibooks?

[TibbonZero]

Never looked at iBooks or iMacs did you?
An iBook can be had for about $900 with student discounts, and what do iMacs go for? $1300?
And if you know someone that's a dealer, you can pick up the cheap G5 for not much. I think i know someone who can get one for around 1100ish?
Ever priced out an alienware computer?

Re:ibooks?

[ColMustard]

Never built your own AMD computer have you?
The last one I built had a barton 2500+ (overclocked to a 3200+), 512MB ram (256 dual channel of course), and a 19" flatscreen with nice flat-panel speakers. The gfx card is just a cheap Nvidia card, but the reciever of the computer was only interesting in playing Warcaft III and so it worked perfectly.
Final cost was $700 including monitor, speakers, input devices, etc). It was so expensive because I didn't start with spare parts from another computer, all new stuff.

My point is that games aren't (or shouldn't be) an incentive for anyone to switch to a Mac. My main machine is a Mac (I do software development as a hobby and I do it on the Mac because it's fun). The Mac I have is what I use most often. But as far as games go, not only is the hardware more expensive, the games are more expensive (usually), and there's still the fact that the games are (again usually) released pretty far after the Windows release. Just my two bits.

Re:ibooks?

[caitsith01]

I have looked at both. I am what you would call a 'power user' if you wrote for a shitty computer magazine, and frankly neither the iBook or iMac comes close to what I demand from a desktop.

The only Macs that would compete with my current PC would be the G5-based monsters at the deep and of the range and the newest Powerbooks, and they are just waaaay too expensive to consider.

Re:ibooks?

[TibbonZero]

Agreed, well in some ways. I've always had intel (never AMD) based PCs, but then I got a DP 1.25ghz G4, which I'm typing on right now. I use that for my 'power' tasks, such as Protools, Photoshop, etc.. (Also I have 2gb memory in it)

I also have a 800mhz G4 iBook, that I use for around town stuff. It was cheap, fast enough, reliable, and did I say cheap? I had an 850mhz PIII HP laptop (n5350) that I got about 3 years ago, and I'll have to say, that I think the iBook will be usable in 3 years, whereas the HP didn't barely last two years, and after one year was showing it's age really badly and unable to run the most recent OS from Micro$oft as well as it should have. I don't even wanna think about XP SP2 on it.

And I have a PS2 for my gaming, which is minimal, because I need to get work and school done. And anyway, my macs play the best games on the market just as well as anything (Nethack, Rogue, Neverwinter Nights, etc...) And Halo is so nice on the mac.

Re:ibooks?

[fr0dicus]

The power of a computer can be measured by how long it's waiting for its user to finish what it's doing.

Yeah, what the #$@%!

[solios]

Quake 3 and Wolfenstein will both run SMP, which makes a HUGE difference when playing the games under OS X. Doom3 should be playable on a dual ghz G4 without problems.

I was saving for a processor upgrade for my aging G4, with gaming being further down on the list of reasons I wanted it.

I'll be buying a PC now, since I can get an entire x86 box with three times the horsepower for the same price as that upgrade.

>:|

Re:Yeah, what the #$@%!

[ryanw]

I'll be buying a PC now, since I can get an entire x86 box with three times the horsepower for the same price as that upgrade.

That's an interesting take on things. The fact that doom3 requires a G5 is going to make you buy a PC. In what world did you live in where a MAC was the ultimate gaming machine? In what world did you live in where PCs weren't cheaper that Macs? In the world I live in PCs have always been cheaper and PCs were the game machines.

The slogan I saw years ago that I kinda' live by, "Macs for Productivity and PCs for Games..." If you want to play games you get a windows machine. If you want to get some work done without screwing with your OS all day, you get a mac. I own 4 macs and NO PCs. I guess I changed my moto a while back cause now I have a gamecube and PS2 for that. I use my powerbook all day, it's nice to just play games on a HUGE TV with an awesome stereo without having to muck around with virus', booting, rebuilding, maintaining another computer, etc...

Re:Yeah, what the #$@%!

[solios]

The Mac's a great productivity box and a shitty game platform, but for productivity it's lacking a few critical apps that Windows has in spades - namely 3dStudio MAX.

The biggest difference between the Mac and the PC worlds is that if you're lacking in one area on the sysreq for a game or a productivity applicatiobn, you can upgrade that part on the PC... whereas on the mac, you need to (often) buy an entirely new machine.

Consoles might be great for gaming, but I don't have a TV. If I had a TV, I'd use it for gaming and nothing else. And since I game an average of a few weeks every six months, that's a horrible waste of a TV. I'll get more all-around use out of the PC.

There's also the fact that due to fuckishness on the part of Adobe, I'm stuck using Photoshop 5.5. Which runs in an emulation layer on OS X, and runs natively on Windows 2000.

You do the math. :P

Re:Yeah, what the #$@%!

[a2daj]

RtCW doesn't take advantage of SMP on Macs.

Re:Yeah, what the #$@%!

[solios]

You sure? It doesn't scream errors when the command is given on console and I swear it ran smoother afterwards...

Think Different?

[Anonymous Coward]

Mac's are about having a different attitude towards computers...

Real creative energy, education, art, video, music.

Porting another lamer's destructive FPS violence simulator to Mac is like translating the PATRIOT ACT into French: why bother?

Re:Think Different?

[snuf23]

Give me a break. This whole bullshit line about how Mac users are more creative and in touch with their Macs in some autoerotic manner is the number one thing that turns me off of Macs.
Stop it! Stop it! Stop perpetuating the bullshit "you just don't get our wonderful MacTopia sad little non-Mac people" elitist attitude.
I used Macs. For YEARS. Macs were the number one reason I got out of graphic design. Two words for you: font management. Two more words: extension conflicts.
Mac killed my inner child.
And yes I know and use OSX and realize that it is much better than the OS9. The one thing that hasn't changed is these ooky posts by beret bearing, black turtleneck wearing, Steve Jobs fanboys that actually believe the marketing tripe that Apple shovels at them.
To imply that only Mac users use computers for "Real creative energy, education, art, video, music." is such a load of elitist crap. Seeing as every post about Doom 3 on Slashdot had a Mac user posting "where is the Mac version" - I guess there is some portion of your MacTopian populace that wants to play "another lamer's destructive FPS violence simulator".

Re:Think Different?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmm. I don't wear a beret (In fact, the only people I've ever seen wearing berets in real life were in the Army.) I'm not a "creative" person, I'm not an artist or a musician or indie-film-producer or some such thing.

So, apparently, I'm using the wrong computer. Thank you for enlightening me. Heaven forbid I violate this stereotype you seem to have.

I suppose, since I'm a programmer, I'll have to run some variety of *nix. That's the stereotype, right? Just checking. But, oooh, I shower regularly, and don't live in my parents' basement, so Linux is out. Maybe BSD. Or I could buy some proprietary thing. Perhaps you can help me decide what kind of computer is appropriate for my lifestyle, since you seem to be up on these things.

Re:"Hell just froze over"

[veritron]

Umm... Aren't you thinking of Halo?

Simple. The G4 processor is dead.

[Vandil X]

Within the next two years, expect PowerBook G5s, iBook G5s, and eMac G5s to appear.

The only reason to make a game playable on a G4 would be if Apple were still making PowerMac G4s.

Also, the current crop of G4 notebooks have 32MB and 64MB video cards -- hardly Doom III-caliber hardware.

Right.

[slux]

Yes, we all know Mac users pay for all their software, that's why there doesn't exist any Warez bittorrent or any mac-warez on p2p networks and there are absolutely no p2p clients for the mac.

Those GNU/Linux users are just filthy thieves, unlike the honest Mac and especially Windows users as we all know. If it wasn't for GNU/Linux, p2p would not be a problem in today's world.

How about comparing the amount of Warez on an average Windows user's machine to that found on the average GNU/Linux user. I doubt you'd find that the Windows users would have the moral high ground and I don't really see any evidence suggesting that the Mac users would be any better.

Some Linux users actually make the switch because they don't want to use warez, others do it for philosophical reasons. In any case, you're always going to be in a very weak position when it comes to infringing copyright because the vast majority of the software you can use on GNU/Linux is Free.

I very much doubt anyone feeling he doesn't need to pay for software will feel inclined to switch to a free operating system where there will be fewer titles to choose from when he can just as easily copy the latest-and-greatest version of Windows (or OS X as that may be).

Re:Right.

[Ohreally_factor]

I can't speak for Windows users, but there has long been a thriving software development cottage industry for the Mac. And the reason it thrives is because people are willing to pay for good software. I've got over a dozen little apps that I've paid anywhere from $5 to $20. I like donationware the best. I'm still running one nag-ware app without paying just because.

Discalimer: Have I ever downloaded warez before? Yes. Will I ever again? Doubtful, but primarily because of the security issues, not the ethical ones.

Re: Unlisted requirement:

[Zorilla]

Even with the console command to increase how heavily the area is lighted, the black areas were still black. Somethingawful.com actually did a piece on how drawing a bunch of black was part of their optimization technique.

BS

[xnot]

Frankly, I'm pissed about this. id made a HUGE deal out of the fact that you would not need the latest hardware on the PC side to run D3 acceptably. Reviews came out, and PC people marveled over the fact that id was true to their word. D3 plays pretty well on most PCs with decent processors and graphics cards.

Now that the mac version comes out, and we all suddenly need a G5 to play it. That's a bunch of crap. Either ID screwed up the mac version, or what we've cringed over so long is finally comming to pass: top gaming companies are abandoning their resources for the mac. When Quake 3 and Warcraft 3 came out of the mac, I thought things MIGHT turn around. But if you need a G5 for the D3 mac version, it's hardly going to sell at all.

This is not good news. Oh well. Time to buy a cheap PC for games. I'm sick of mac ports working at half the speed of the PC version.

Re:BS

[schuster]

I think a lot of this is due to the fact that the G4 was never a good chip for desktop computers to begin with. Motorola was always more interested in the embedded market and that's probably the biggest reason that Apple is working with IBM now. Personally, I think that Apple should work with both companies. Moto makes better laptop chips and IBM makes better desktop chips. It's true that Apple skimps on the GPUs and RAM, but Doom, from what I understand, is very CPU intensive which is why you won't get good performance from G4s.

Re:BS

[Anonymous Coward]

actually, i thought the g4 was a joint effort between motorola and ibm, not just motorola?

Re:Simple. The G4 processor is dead.

[Anonymous Coward]

"the current crop of G4 notebooks have 32MB and 64MB video cards -- hardly Doom III-caliber hardware. "

Actually mine has 128MB vram

Oh, no!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean I can't play Doom 3 on my Powerbook! What ever will I do? Oh, wait. I forgot I don't care...
Seriously, if I wanted to play games, I would have bought an Alienware laptop or something.

Why the wait?

[hai.uchida]

Yet again we get a game much later than the PC crowd. I'm not much more than an occasional gamer so I don't need it the day it comes out to be cool or satisfy my lust, and it's not that big of a deal for single player, but it really sucks for multiplayer when everyone else has had a year's advantage over you to learn the tricks and write the mods and hacks (which Mac players often can't install.)

No sense complaining, I guess. I knew all this when I bought my Mac, and I chose Final Cut Pro over Premiere and cool games.

Re:"Hell just froze over"

[valkraider]

Actually, I'm thinking of Angelina Jolie... But what does this have to do with Doom3 on the Mac?

Mac Users Should Pay

[IAmATuringMachine!]

I know a lot of folks like to pirate games, and I'm not going to pass judgment there. But one note is that Mac games companies need volume to succeed and to want to port games. If you are going to run a game on a Mac, please reward the publisher for their work, so that the publishers do not go out of business or start producing shoddy work. Similarly, when you buy a printer or whatever, make sure to send in the registration card (even if you fake the address, etc.) so that they know that Mac users do buy the hardware, to keep development of drivers active. Samsung was pretty surprised when a lot of people freaked out when they said they weren't going to make drivers for 10.4, thinking nobody used their kit... (I am still begging them to reconsider...)

Re:Mac Users Should Pay

[Anonymous Coward]

i have a stackload of pirated mac games which i'd gladly pay for if any of them ran at a playable speed.
the ports are so bad, not even dungeon siege at the lowest detail can manage 15-20+ frames a second on my imac g4 800/geforce2mx/loads of ram.
thankfully i am able to pirate the games to ascertain whether they'll run- system requirements are best left untrusted

Re:"Hell just froze over"

[Graymalkin]

No. Doom 3 was demoed by John Carmack at MacWorld Tokyo in 2001. It was demoed on a G4 PowerMac when the GeForce 3 cards were announced for them.

Re:Simple. The G4 processor is dead.

[AddressException]

Funny, my "G4 notebook" has a 128MB video card....

happy

[torrents]

lots of people will be really happy about this... especially a few i know who already bought it for their pc because it "wasn't available for their mac"

Re:And...

[stor]

Remind me again how your having already finished the game will diminish another's gaming experience

Because he got "frist finished game psot".

Cheers
Stor

Dumb.

[teamhasnoi]

I've played D3 on my 2.2 p4, 512ram, and 32 meg Gforce2. It was bad, but I looked forward to it for my Powerbook.

Every game I've tried on my 1.25 g4, gig o' ram, 64 meg

Re:Dumb.

[teamhasnoi]

For some reason, /. won't let me post the rest of my post.

Hmmmm. Suffice to say it made an excellent point and was funny and insightful.

Re:Why it took so long...

[Anonymous Coward]

i wouldnt call it a "rich man's toy". id personally rather have a slower REAL unix deck than some windows, spyware infested clone. of course you have the option of installing linux - which only allow for crappy window managers that still dont have decent DRI and are clunky as hell. believe me, ive toyed with almost every window manager that has come out since 1995.
but i guess were talking video games, which i dont play - instead i prefer to continue my path of destruction by drinking and doing as many drugs as possible - which are sometimes more expensive than doom 3, but might get you laid. ahhh......decisions, decisions...(plus chicks dig macs)

Ignorant News poster...

[ildon]

Knowing Id, the Mac binary will be available for free on their FTP, and the binary will probably be updated to check for either a Mac or PC play disc, and, naturally, as long as you have a valid cd key (either from the Mac or PC box) you can play online.

I see NO reason to believe that just because the Mac version will ALSO be available on store shelves, that the binary will not be available online for free to those who already purchased the PC version.