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Mathematics and Sex

book_reader (Gary Cornell) writes "Wow, what an intriguing title! When I was getting my Ph.D in math, the words 'sex' and 'mathematics' were not juxtaposed all that often, and I suspect we would have been more likely to expect a book titled 'Mathematics and the (lack of) Sex.' But, hey, times change and the author, who is not only a mathematician but also someone who was voted one of Australia's 50 most beautiful people in their equivalent of People magazine -- and remember this is the land of Nicole Kidman -- has a point. As she says, echoing G.H. Hardy's famous comment in 'A Mathematician's Apology': 'Mathematics is the study of patterns: their discovery, their interconnections and their implications.' And what is sexual behavior but the most intriguing pattern of all?" Read on for the rest of Cornell's review. Mathematics and Sex author Clio Cresswell pages 177 publisher Allen & Unwin rating 8/10 reviewer book_reader ISBN 1741141591 summary A very nice introduction to the modelling of inter-personal behavior

The way one studies patterns mathematically is by building models for the behavior being modeled. This is why most of this book is about mathematical models for interpersonal behavior. Well, that together with some amusing anecdotes that make the book a fun read even if you know the literature very well. Still, before I go any further with this review I want to remind everyone that the key question to ask oneself when reading any book that does mathematical modeling of any topic is always the same: are the models built realistic?. Mathematicians can't answer this question: only research by scientists (i.e., experience) can. Einstein probably put it best when he said:

"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."

While we do study models for their applicability and their eventual predictive use by and for science, mathematicians can and do also study them for their intrinsic mathematics beauty, and some of the models Cresswell discusses in this book are certainly very pretty (in the mathematical sense of beauty--because the solutions are elegant, though the pun is intended.)

As an example of what this whole subject is like let me tell you about a long-studied model of interpersonal behavior that the author discusses in Chapter 3, a chapter titled "Road Testing the Bed"--I kid you not.

"You have to choose your life mate. The rules we adopt for this model are that you will be presented 100 choices one after another, you may date them, sleep with them, whatever. But, at the end, you must say yea or nay and if you say nay, you will never see them again."

What strategy should you adopt? Well, if you wait to the end, the odds are only 1/100 that the last person is the optimal choice; ditto if you choose the first person. The modeler then asks: what strategy should you adopt for optimum results? A little bit of mathematics involving infinite series gives the answer. You can prove mathematically that the best strategy is to look at (approximately) the first 36.787944117144235 people (rounding it to, say, 37 people) and then you should choose the first person from that point on that is 'better' then the previous 37 people. This increases the odds of your finding the best match from 1% to about 37%- roughly a 37 times improvement. (In the pre-politically correct literature this model was called "The Sultan's Dowry Problem," or "The Secretary Problem"; now, alas, it is usually called simply an example of an "Optimal Stopping Problem." )

Is this a good model for how we behave? Is this a strategy that one can realistically adopt? Certainly, 100 possibilities seems like a lot of choices to have if one is not the current day equivalent of a sultan -- a movie star or an athlete. But the model is intriguing, if not totally realistic and applicable.

Models that spring from modification of the rules of the Sultan problem have always been one of my favorites in this area. This makes Chapter 3 my favorite chapter: it is chock full of goodies with lots of interesting variations of the original problem, and thus even more interesting models. Some may be far more applicable. For example, if you get to play the cad and can keep potential mates 'stockpiled,' then, by stockpiling seven potential mates, there's a strategy that you can use to increase the odds of finding the best one to 96% or so! Or, in another variation of the model, whose solution she refers to as the "twelve bonk rule," there's a result that says that if you simply want to ensure that your choice is better than 90% of the other choices available, simply 'sample' the first 12 possibilities and pick the first person who is better after the first 12. This strategy gives you a 77% possibility of success.

I obviously can't go over all the models she builds, the interesting results she cites, or the interesting observations she makes in a review so let me simply give you some of the high points of the remaining chapters:

Chapter 1 is entitled "Love, sweeeet love" and mostly consists of showing you various differential equations that can model love's attraction and repulsion i.e. variations on standard "prey-predator models." For example, she mentions the following model of attraction:

"The more Romeo loves Juliet, the More Juliet wants to run away ... Romeo gets discouraged and backs off, Juliet finds him strangely attractive. Romeo tends to echo her..."
This model gives rise to a standard and very simple first order differential equation. She then talks about more sophisticated versions of this model including one by Rinaldi that tries to model a famous love poem by Petrarch. (Personally, I think these models are only useful for learning differential equations but don't shed much light on the problem.)

Chapter 2 is called "Marriage and the Happily Ever After" and describes models for behavior in a relationship, including an analysis of how absurd the folk tale is that more sex occurs in the first year of marriage then in all subsequent years combined. Probably the most interesting work she talks about in this chapter are the models by Guttman et al. intended to analyze conversations between lovers to determine if the relationship is on the rocks. In this case the models they build are known to be highly accurate in predicting problems in the relationship.

Chapter 4 is entitled "Dating Services -- are you really being served?" and it has a fascinating analysis of the perils of questionnaires that try to match too many variables (i.e. why those questionnaires don't help that much). As she points out, this is called the "curse of dimensionality" in the literature. The problem is that if you are trying to determine whether two points are very close in n-dimensional space where n is large, you are unlikely to get a whole lot of difference between points and so closeness doesn't really matter much.

Chapter 5 is called "Pairing Up," and shows how Game Theory can (should?) enter into the problem of "choice" preferences. This chapter is a very nice gateway into models that are studied in the greatest depth in economics; there is an incredibly interesting literature on these issues. One should start with Arrow's paradox on voting (that most logical axiom systems for building choice models are actually inconsistent and can't simultaneously be satisfied) and then work up to real problems with how congressional seats are allocated in the United States. Wikipedia has good articles to start with on these models.

Chapter 6 is called "Action Reaction Attraction" and is about ways to model people's attractiveness. This means things like symmetry as a cross cultural model for beauty, and waist-to-hip ratio for females as a cross-cultural model for male choice. Whether these models are correct is an extremely active area of research in anthropology and evolutionary psychology. The jury seems to still be out, but the evidence for their truth is certainly growing.

Chapter 7 is called "Pick a Sex, Any Sex" and is a tantalizing hint of what the mathematics of evolution is all about. In particular this chapter includes a nice discussion of how sex itself can evolve. (It seems paradoxical that the question of how sex itself can evolve is not yet resolved. After all, in a naive "selfish gene" approach to evolution, it would seem seem that asexual methods of reproduction win hands down. But, as usual, the issues are more complex then naive models would predict. For example, who would have thought that parasites might be the reason sex arose? Again, for more details on the science behind the models the author discusses, you can start with a useful Wikipedia article. Ridley's popular science book called the Red Queen (or anything by Maynard Smith) is where to go next.

Chapter 8 is titled "How Ovaries Count and Balls Add Up," and is about models for feedback levels of hormone concentration and circadian rhythms and didn't particular interest me.

Finally, Chapter 9 is called "Orgasm" and I'm not going to summarize it, since that would be telling.

To sum up, is this book perfect? No. I think more mathematically literate people would like appendices which give some indication of the deeper math behind what she discusses. For example, the math that shows why the answer I gave above to the Sultan's choice problem really is approximately 36.787944117144235 - or more correctly n/e, where e is the base of natural logarithms and n is the number of choices one has to go through, is well within the reach of any 2nd year calculus student. The differential equations she introduces in other chapters can be understood by anyone with a good engineering or math background. The game theory and even a proof of Arrow's theorem should be accessible to any literate person etc. As is, though, anyone with even some knowledge of or interest in mathematics will find this book great fun.

You can purchase Mathematics and Sex from bn.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.

458 comments

  1. f(sex) = by 10000000000000000000 · · Score: 5, Funny

    69 :D

    1. Re:f(sex) = by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      5000 Men + 1 Woman = 5001

      If each man does her 7 times,

      7 * 5001 = 35007

      If you don't get it, try turning your monitor upside down.

    2. Re:f(sex) = by PedanticSpellingTrol · · Score: 5, Insightful

      How appropriate that this follows up the previous story; an ask slashdot pondering what aspects of science would interest high school students.

    3. Re:f(sex) = by 10000000000000000000 · · Score: 1

      if you have 100 men and 1 woman you can only produce 1 child every year (give or take).

      but if you have 100 women and 1 man you can create 100 offspring - and 1 happy man.

      A friend of mine used this example to argue that women are more important then men.

      but I think this example is actually quite moot - though interesting in it's mathematics

    4. Re:f(sex) = by da007 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Hey baby let's go back to my place and find the integral of e^x

    5. Re:f(sex) = by TedCheshireAcad · · Score: 4, Funny

      hahaha your first derivative is zero. newb.

    6. Re:f(sex) = by Alan+Livingston · · Score: 1

      Why is it so moot? Do men and women not create offspring anymore? My son would be a counterexample...

    7. Re:f(sex) = by mverrilli · · Score: 1

      it's equal to some function of u to the n'th power. f(u)^n

    8. Re:f(sex) = by Cplus · · Score: 1

      All of the talk about the number 37 reminded me of Clerks, which I watched this afternoon.

      37

      --
      "Share your knowledge. It's a way to achieve immortality." -- Dalai Lama
    9. Re:f(sex) = by Jeremi · · Score: 3, Insightful
      but if you have 100 women and 1 man you can create 100 offspring - and 1 happy man.

      ...actually you'll have 100 half-siblings, who won't be able to reproduce (effectively) with each other. (And of course, 100 offspring who all risk carrying on the same genetic defects that their father had)


      Genetic diversity is the only saving grace for us non-alpha males :^)

      --


      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
    10. Re:f(sex) = by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's more interesting is the integral of lady with respect to y.

    11. Re:f(sex) = by dont_think_twice · · Score: 1

      but first, multiply by beta*u*pi. (write it out if you dont get it).

    12. Re:f(sex) = by csbruce · · Score: 1

      "Sex is the mathematics urge sublimated." -- MC Reed

    13. Re:f(sex) = by corngrower · · Score: 1
      if you have 100 men and 1 woman you can only produce 1 child every year (give or take).

      but if you have 100 women and 1 man you can create 100 offspring - and 1 happy man.

      As much as I'm loath to bring up biblical topics, I've always pondered this. Regarding the story of Moses' birth in the bible, the Egyptians were killing off the male Israelite babes to control their population. This seems like a dumb thing to do, as it would have been vastly much more effective had they killed the female babies. How could they not have realized this?

    14. Re:f(sex) = by Radish03 · · Score: 4, Funny

      A few lines some of my fellow physics majors and I have come up with indclude:
      Wanna go calculate the spring coefficient of my matress.

      Let's go back to my place and do some research in applied fluid dynamics.

      and last but not least, the great and simple: I'd really like to integrate your curves.

    15. Re:f(sex) = by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I prefer 68 - I owe you one.

    16. Re:f(sex) = by Whyrph · · Score: 0

      "Baby, I wish I were a derivative, so I could be tangent to all your curves."

    17. Re:f(sex) = by SewersOfRivendell · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You obviously didn't hear the Bush administration's recent report that high school students are uninterested in sex.

    18. Re:f(sex) = by Raffaello · · Score: 1

      This is likely false. It is a common misconception that the principal reason for the incest taboo is the prevention harmful inbreeding. The reality is that half siblings are not much more closely related than first cousins, and in many societies, first cousin marriage was traditionally the preferred form of marriage. It should also be recalled that traditionally, the Pharaohs married (and conceived heirs by) their full sisters.

      It is just as likely that we have an incest taboo to prevent social inbreeding. Any clan that allowed incest would run the risk of being dangerously cut off from the rest of the world. With no marriage, trade or other social ties, such a group would have no allies, and many enemies ("why not kill them - they never trade with us, don't exchange brides with us..."). Any such socially isolated incestuous groups were wiped out long ago by their neighbors, who did form alliances based on intermarriage with others.

    19. Re:f(sex) = by fiftyfly · · Score: 3, Funny
      f(sex) = 69 :D

      hahaha your first derivative is zero. newb.

      Hmm - I don't know about you but, at this time, I'm not looking for and derivatives (or sums, heaven forbid products) from sex.

      --
      "Sanity is not statistical", George Orwell, "1984"
    20. Re:f(sex) = by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it was all about preventing leaders from rising up.

    21. Re:f(sex) = by Mathiasdm · · Score: 1

      e^x + c (with c being a constant) Let's go :-P

      --
      Join the anonymous, help develop the network: http://www.i2p2.de
    22. Re:f(sex) = by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      Actually first cousin marriages are still a problem even if not illegal. It has been shown to give a 10 times higher chance for birth defects than pregnancies in general, and there are now education programs to discourge it among immigrants.

    23. Re:f(sex) = by Mycroft_VIII · · Score: 1

      An interesting thing about the built in factors for the incest taboo is they seem to be built in during the first six years.
      Most people form who family is and isn't by age six. This explains why, even though raised with an incest taboo, a person who meets someone who is a sibling for the first time after they've both entered peuberty may find that person sexualy attractive even if they know that person is thier long-lost sister/brother. (although fictional consider Luke and Lea, a bit of sexual tension between them at first)

      Mycroft

      --
      https://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4c3ed6600b6ea
    24. Re:f(sex) = by mithras+the+prophet · · Score: 1

      Well, it depends whether you're "inside" cousins or "outside" cousins, genetically speaking...

      --
      four nine eighteen twenty-7 thirty-nine forty-7 fiftyeight sixty-nine seventy-9 eighty-8 one-hundred-and-nine one-twenty
    25. Re:f(sex) = by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    26. Re:f(sex) = by Da_Fridge · · Score: 1

      When I was at school, the enginneers wrote sayings on the coveralls that we got. Examples include "Fill My Nullspace" "Insert Frictionless Rod Here" "Integral of e^xy (or SEXY)"

      --
      If I wanted water, I'd ask for DiHydrogen Oxide!
    27. Re:f(sex) = by flynniec6 · · Score: 1

      Mathematicians do it in theory.

    28. Re:f(sex) = by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I prefer the k'th power :oP

    29. Re:f(sex) = by harrkev · · Score: 1

      In that specific instance, men were the ones who could swing a sword.

      --
      "-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
    30. Re:f(sex) = by Mattcelt · · Score: 1

      Boy, the /. formatting really takes away from the whole sex=extacy visual of that joke, doesn't it?

  2. calculus by utopianfiat · · Score: 4, Funny

    hey baby, I'll be your derivative so I can be tangent to all your curves.

    --
    +5, Truth
    1. Re:calculus by shadowmatter · · Score: 4, Funny

      My favorite math pickup line is "Are your parents retarded? 'Cuz you look pretty special."

      If you tell them that's a math pickup line, their first reaction will be to correct you: "No, there's no mention of math in that anywhere."

      If you don't tell them it's a math pickup line, their first reaction will be to slap you.

      Hence, I consider it a math pickup line.

      - sm

    2. Re:calculus by kzinti · · Score: 4, Funny

      hey baby, I'll be your derivative so I can be tangent to all your curves.

      Wouldn't you rather be normal to her zeros?

    3. Re:calculus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You sick bastard!... call me?

    4. Re:calculus by Silvertre · · Score: 1

      heh. I always liked:

      Hey baby, lets intergrate and check out the area under your curves.

    5. Re:calculus by TedCheshireAcad · · Score: 5, Funny

      ask her if she wants to see the rate of change of your natural log.

    6. Re:calculus by Dachannien · · Score: 4, Funny

      Wouldn't you rather be normal to her zeros?

      Maybe if her zeros were over my pole.

    7. Re:calculus by 18769 · · Score: 2, Funny

      hey baby, I wish you were x^2 and I were x^3/3 so that I could be the area underneath you.

    8. Re:calculus by utopianfiat · · Score: 1

      I'm willing to sacrifice my karma to lol at this.
      imho funniest reply to my comment.

      --
      +5, Truth
    9. Re:calculus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      anyone who modded this up as 'funny' is a known virgin.

    10. Re:calculus by kzinti · · Score: 4, Funny

      Maybe if her zeros were over my pole.

      You just keep your pole in the left-hand plane, mister. I don't want your unstable mess all over the place!

    11. Re:calculus by g0at · · Score: 1

      That may only work properly if she's into scat...

      -b

    12. Re:calculus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like you're asking her if she wants to watch you take a dump. Hey.. if you're into that kinda stuff, it's cool. I won't judge.

    13. Re:calculus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      You're not fooling me...all geek sex contains a factor of i.

      rj

    14. Re:calculus by AtillaTheKilla · · Score: 1

      or rather hey baby, I'll be your antiderivative, so I can be the area under your curves. wink.

    15. Re:calculus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe she'ld like to play the part of the denominator and see if a pole forms at her zero point.

    16. Re:calculus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yes you do. skeeet skeeet skeeet skeeet skeeet.

    17. Re:calculus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree! I fell of my chair laughing at that one... its just so perfect :D

    18. Re:calculus by RsD212 · · Score: 1

      See, there was this plane flying in from Poland. It was full of Polish immigrants coming to New York for the very first time. After a long and boring run over the ocean, the pilot comes on the PA, "We are now arriving in New York City, in the United States of America, land of opportunity. If you look out the right windows, you will see the Statue of Liberty, symbol of freedom." The Polish immigrants pile over to look at the Statue in all its glory when suddenly the plane explodes. Engineers pour over the wreckage, and cannot find any mechanical failures anywhere on the plane. The final conclusion? There were just too many poles in the right-half of the plane.

    19. Re:calculus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You fail it.

      Joke: The jet liner is starting to fall, the pilot and copilot having unfortunately had simultaneous heart attacks. Desperate, the stewards ask the passengers if they have flight experience. One Polish visitor volunteers, and explains that he's taken some flight lessons on a Cessna.

      They take him to the cockpit. There, he freezes at the panels and panels of instruments, dials and blinking controls in utter confusion. The stewards ask, "What's wrong? You said you could fly!"

      "I'm just a simple pole in a complex plane."

  3. How much for that penis in the Window? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well I guess this does prove that old saying. "Sex sells"...Books.

    1. Re:How much for that penis in the Window? by Winkhorst · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yes it does.

      "are the models built realistic?"

      No model I've ever seen has been built realistic. They're always skinnier than hell and walk like they have a rotorooter up their ass....

      --
      "Is this Winkhorst a nova criminal?" "No just a technical sergeant wanted for interrogation."
    2. Re:How much for that penis in the Window? by Excen · · Score: 0

      they have a rotorooter up their ass

      If the metal parts are replaced with silicone or another soft material I can understand why dating models are so popular.

      --
      "No beer until you finish your tequila!" -Leela's Dad
  4. Can I have your digits? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just think of all the pick-up line possibilities...

  5. Beautiful Mind by FiReaNGeL · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The movie Beautiful Mind on the life of John Nash present a scene in a bar where he gets his novel idea (which led to a Nobel Prize).

    A beautiful women with 3 of her (so-so) friends, 4 guys. If we all go for the cutie, her friends get no attention, go away and we all lose. If we each take one (a guy being luckier than the other), every girls feels she get attention we all 'win'.

    Is this scene true or pure romanced fiction? In any way, a good representation of Math + Sex (if this is possible).

    1. Re:Beautiful Mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      I believe that was a representation of the game theory.

      http://cepa.newschool.edu/het/schools/game.htm

    2. Re:Beautiful Mind by pHatidic · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No no no you've got it all wrong. First you start by hitting on the ugliest girl in the set. Then the next ugliest, then next ugliest. You have to get all the ugly chicks to be friends with you. That way when you start hitting on the hot chick they won't cock block like they normally would.

    3. Re:Beautiful Mind by austad · · Score: 4, Funny

      Also referred to as jumping on the grenade.

      --
      Need Free Juniper/NetScreen Support? JuniperForum
    4. Re:Beautiful Mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      John Nash is gay.
      So the whole story romanced fiction.

      Maybe Hollywood doesn't think maths is interesting enough for the truth to hold it own.

      They gave the line that Rusty Crow couldn't be seen to play gay,
      although he plays gay in the Australian movie "the sum of us" which involved no math.

      So Rusty can play a math guy or a gay guy
      But not a gay math guy.

      Look what they did to the Alan Turing character in Enigma.

    5. Re:Beautiful Mind by jbolden · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually its an economics problem. What Nash showed was that individuals maxamizing profit could lead to markets being heavily under utilized. A good example is radio stations:

      Assume you have in a city you have
      40k who like rock
      30k who like news
      12k who like country
      9k who like classical

      1 station: rock only
      2 stations: rock + news

      3 stations: 2 rock + 1 news the third station does better splitting the rock vote then going after country or classical (i.e you end up with 2 rock + 1 news).

      4 stations: 2 rock + 2news
      5 statations: 3 rock + 2 news
      6 stations: 3 rock + 2 news + 1 country

      it might even be worse if additional stations go after the rock and news markets trying to drive others out
      _____

      Under nash's ideas the stations can pool their earnings and:

      1 station: rock
      2 stations: rock + news
      3 stations: rock + news + country
      etc...

    6. Re:Beautiful Mind by DogDude · · Score: 1

      A beautiful women with 3 of her (so-so) friends, 4 guys. If we all go for the cutie, her friends get no attention, go away and we all lose. If we each take one (a guy being luckier than the other), every girls feels she get attention we all 'win'.

      Nah, that's bullshit. Most guys (those with a soul, that is) are terrified to take a shot at the best looking one. That rejection thing looms its ugly head when there's a large perceived attractiveness differential. Most will go for one in the middle, realistically. A safe(r) bet. Often, the best looking ones are more lonely than the so-so ones for just this reason.

      --
      I don't respond to AC's.
    7. Re:Beautiful Mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There were four of her so-so friends (not the blonde and three friends). If you look at that scene you can see that the blonde is left without any guy. He said that: What if none of us go for the blonde, we don't insult her friends and we don't get in each other's way. (or something like that)

    8. Re:Beautiful Mind by Rod+Beauvex · · Score: 2, Informative

      I love brainy chicks. Even if they aren't that pretty.

    9. Re:Beautiful Mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually it IS a math problem... and an economics problem.

      It's all about game theory, which is mathematics. Specifically, the mathematical foundation behind economics, so you're both right!

    10. Re:Beautiful Mind by IO+ERROR · · Score: 1

      If you drive away the beautiful woman's friends, or your friends do, you aren't getting laid either. So it's in your best interest for each of you to take each one.

      --
      How am I supposed to fit a pithy, relevant quote into 120 characters?
    11. Re:Beautiful Mind by khallow · · Score: 1
      It's pure romanced fiction. And Santa Claus is imaginary too. Ha.

      More seriously, this isn't a true Nash game since the 4 guys can communicate with each other. The winning Nash equilibrium strategy is simply one in which a player maximizes their minimum possible gain no matter what strategy the other players use.

    12. Re:Beautiful Mind by daveo0331 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So in other words, if one Company were to own severaL differEnt rAdio stations, instead of each station being undeR separate ownership, the stations Collectively could tHen be more profitAble. In other words, someoNe could make a lot of moNEy by starting a company that buys out Lots of different radio stations (at prices based on profitability under single ownership) and then makes them (overall) more economically efficient than they were before.

      I wonder how come no one's thought of this yet...

      --
      Remember the days when Republicans were the party of fiscal responsibility?
    13. Re:Beautiful Mind by Elfan · · Score: 4, Funny

      I think most guys go for the drunkest.

    14. Re:Beautiful Mind by aralin · · Score: 2, Funny
      I don't get this. In US by studying math, you are some kind of freak and all these jokes here on slashdot are kind of out of whack. In Czech Republic on the math department of Charles University there are very different jokes. One runs like this:
      • What does a math student think about when he sees a red balooon?
      • ????
      • Sex! And you know why?
      • ????
      • Because thats what he thinks about all the time.
      --
      If programs would be read like poetry, most programmers would be Vogons.
    15. Re:Beautiful Mind by jbolden · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Remember what year Nash was. They hadn't at the time. The first merger mania wave wasn't until close to 20 years later (in the late 60's).

    16. Re:Beautiful Mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice subliminal.

    17. Re:Beautiful Mind by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      So, you are into S&M, ha? Good for you, man, don't go with the flow.

      I prefer a combination of beauty and brains. It can't be beat.

    18. Re:Beautiful Mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For the not so adept: CLEAR CHANNEL

    19. Re:Beautiful Mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, the example in Beautiful Mind was flawed - the Nash equiblerium was totally misunderstood. If everyone would be hitting on brunettes, it would've been advantageous to start going for the blonde as she had better "value".

      Hollywood and making science examples...

    20. Re:Beautiful Mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Nope,

      Always Always Always hit on the 2nd hottest. She is hot, or at least not bad. She is insecure because guys always go for her friend. Hit on her and totally ignore the hot one. When the hot one tried to attract your attention, act like she doesn't exist. When she finally makes it impossible to ignore her, act like you finally relaized she exists, give her a good looking over, and then go back and focus all of your attnetion on the second hottest.


      You will likely end up banging a hot woman who is sexually frustrated, and have a great time. If you play your cards right you can bang the hottest one later, as she is now interested in you! But in my experience, looks have nothing to do with skill in bed. Bang enough boring (maguro)hotties, and looks drop down a level on the pickup scale.

    21. Re:Beautiful Mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds great and all but I think evolution and survival of the fittest will have something to say about your vision.

    22. Re:Beautiful Mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The irony is that what should result in greater diversity of radio stations has gone the other way. Clearchannel learned a very different lesson...namely, people are sheep who will listen to what they're told to listen to or what they're told is one of the alternatives. So now every station they own plays one of their 7 or so formats and entire genres of music receive almost zero airplay.

      As the review said, mathematical models are nice, but in the real world conclusions based on statistical sampling are far more valuable.

    23. Re:Beautiful Mind by M3rk1n_Muffl3y · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I read somewhere that Clearchannel target advertisers rather than listeners, who will play their crap in their office and pay for the ads. Simple.
      Music itself does not enter the equation.

      --
      This is not the sig you are looking for...
    24. Re:Beautiful Mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      jagermeister is your friend

    25. Re:Beautiful Mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Having met Gary Cornell (head of APress) I'm not exactly surprisd that women don't flock to him...

    26. Re:Beautiful Mind by kin_korn_karn · · Score: 1

      You're telling a board full of geeks how to pick up women in bars? Most of us aren't going to have any luck with the kind of women that go to bars looking for hookups, period. They're looking for a certain shallow type of guy that provides escapism, not a real person. Why? Because they are shallow, too.

    27. Re:Beautiful Mind by msgregory@earthlink. · · Score: 0

      Geeks are shallow, too. All they care about is what operating system you're running!

    28. Re:Beautiful Mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One of his points was that you really only get to try for one of the women. After that, any you go after will feel like second best (they all saw you go for their hot friend first) and reject you. So if everyone goes for the hottest one, at best one man will get lucky that night. Someone once said to me "they're all pink inside"...

    29. Re:Beautiful Mind by You+Been+Rob-ed! · · Score: 1

      Hence ClearChannel buying up markets!

      --
      For fun, calculate how much DDT would be lethal for you!
    30. Re:Beautiful Mind by PMuse · · Score: 1

      3 stations: 2 rock + 1 news the third station does better splitting the rock vote then going after country or classical (i.e you end up with 2 rock + 1 news)

      Wow! That's a vastly simplified model. To start with, it assumes that the third station has an equal chance of capturing an even portion of any market it competes in regardless of the existence of established competitors. In reality, capturing all of an unserved market can be easier than capturing a portion of a market where you have competitors.

      I know all models have to generalize a little, but...

      --
      "We reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals." --The American President (20.1.2009)
    31. Re:Beautiful Mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Overall this is rather offtopic, but anyways:

      Thats what satellite radio like XM, etc. are doing. They optimize the content (to run effeciently, ecenomically). Doing that with traditional radio stations would be difficult and in the process might lose dedicated listeners.

    32. Re:Beautiful Mind by DieNadel · · Score: 1

      I only ask you: to send what and to whom?

      --
      Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
    33. Re:Beautiful Mind by jbolden · · Score: 1

      You can absorb whatever you think are the right percentages by adjusting the percentages of people. In your scenerio the real problem would be a bad rock station (not getting listeners but hard to split the market) while the jazz and polka stations are doing well. Thus large numbers of people listening to radio at all....

    34. Re:Beautiful Mind by cloudmaster · · Score: 1

      I thought clearchannel was a big ol' radio station owning group, and not a description...

    35. Re:Beautiful Mind by MacGod · · Score: 1

      Small correction: in the movie, there are four so-so friends. Each guys goes for one of them, and ignore the hot blonde. Each guy therefore goes home with a cute girl, and the blonde gets no guy after her (but can always go look elsewhere with ease).

      She doesn't feel too scorned, because it's easy for her to find a guy elsewhere. The so-so girls, though, would have a tougher time doing this, so they feel rebuked is someone goes for the hot girl, gets shot down, then goes for the so-so girl as a fallback.

      --
      "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one " -Albert Einstein
    36. Re:Beautiful Mind by PMuse · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure I follow. If by You can absorb whatever you think are the right percentages by adjusting the percentages of people you mean that the Nth and subsequent stations to enter a market gain initially less than a 1/N portion of the market, I agree.

      Now, it is time for data. Is the effect of established competitors small enough to ignore (as in the original model) or must we assess the strength of brand loyalty (etc.) in the market type at issue to get a useable answer?

      Next, we'll need to determine whether barriers to entry are equal in all markets. (For radio stations, they are equal unless royalties for music differ from fees for news reports.) Further, loyalty may be unequal in the various markets; perhaps rock customers switch brands easily where news customers are slow to change.

      What's my point? Simple models are nice, but if a factor has been left out that is big enough to regularly change the results, then the model needs refining. (Of course, I do not know whether the factor I'm discussing _is_ that big; not without data.)

      --
      "We reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals." --The American President (20.1.2009)
  6. Google search by jkitchel · · Score: 2, Informative


    Ok, how many other people immediately did a google search to see how attractive she really was? The first link gives a decent picture of her. She's cute.

    1. Re:Google search by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I would hit it like it owed me money

      Survey says: HIT IT!!!

    2. Re:Google search by wwahammy · · Score: 1

      Damn right. Someone who looks that good shouldn't be studying math all day.

    3. Re:Google search by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sad to say that yes, this was in fact the first thing I did, before even reading the review.

    4. Re:Google search by Mordack · · Score: 1

      Indeed she is very attractive. And smart! I bet she is married.

      Sigh. My life sucks.

      --
      I don't need no stinkin' sig!
    5. Re:Google search by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know I did. And I'm not even straight.

    6. Re:Google search by Limburgher · · Score: 1

      Nothing beats a woman who's both smart and hot. Nothing.

      --

      You are not the customer.

    7. Re:Google search by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No way.

      That's a man, baby.

    8. Re:Google search by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So I guess you didn't notice the math error on the blackboard behind her... j/k.

    9. Re:Google search by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 1

      Damn right. Someone who looks that good shouldn't be studying math all day.

      Apparently she has quite a diverse life outside of her studies -- which tends to be true of really good mathematicians in general, actually. (People like Erdos are the exception, not the rule.) Don't fall prey to the stereotypes.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    10. Re:Google search by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I never could figure this out. Aussies are descended from the British colonists, but Aussie women are as hot as the Brits are er... not so hot. What it is? The sun? The convict blood?

    11. Re:Google search by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nothing beats a woman who's both smart and hot. Nothing.

      Except Ike Turner. Oh... wait... you said smart...

    12. Re:Google search by tpgp · · Score: 3, Informative

      Tsk.

      You should have linked to a google image search - after all, we just want to see pics.

      Here's a link to the book cover

      --
      My pics.
    13. Re:Google search by PabloJones · · Score: 1

      Hmmm, maybe they brush their teeth.

    14. Re:Google search by Ahnteis · · Score: 1

      Two?

    15. Re:Google search by goon+america · · Score: 1

      The cover of her book is ... interesting, too

    16. Re:Google search by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, except *dumb* and hot. :D

    17. Re:Google search by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny
      I'm lazy. I just read the comments, knowing that someone like you would've done the work for me, and I could just click on a link.

      Thanks, BTW.

    18. Re:Google search by RedWizzard · · Score: 1
      Aussies are descended from the British colonists, but Aussie women are as hot as the Brits are er... not so hot. What it is? The sun? The convict blood?
      I don't know, but it doesn't matter in this case - she was born and raised in England until she was 18.
    19. Re:Google search by kesuki · · Score: 1

      Tsk I already knew what she looked like. She was on one of the 'last' Unscrewed episodes. Slashdot as usual is 'old news'

    20. Re:Google search by SiM97 · · Score: 1

      I'm agree, she's pretty cute. About 10 years ago she was my maths tutor at Adelaide University. Had she not been, I might have set the record for worst attendance record of all time. Somehow I always found time for maths tutes though :)

      A couple of years ago she was on an Aussie TV chat show called The Panel a few times filling the role of science guru / hot babe. I'm surprised she doesn't get more air time over here in a way, given the relatively small number of women that can boast that combination of traits.

    21. Re:Google search by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      she'd look cuter naked with a fat dildo in her glistening flange.

    22. Re:Google search by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What are you babbling about? There's some cute British girls out there. Also, Aussies are stereotypically outdoorsy and athletic, so a lot of marginal Aussies would be in good shape while potentially decent Brits might plump up, and guys usually like girls who do guy stuff rather than gossip and knit all day.

    23. Re:Google search by hall_simon · · Score: 1
      Aussies are stereotypically outdoorsy and athletic...
      Most stereotypes are inaccurate. Aussies are mostly fat bastards - like yanks ;-)
    24. Re:Google search by ZzzzSleep · · Score: 1

      "Nothing beats a woman who's both smart and hot..."
      Except rock.

    25. Re:Google search by ziggy_zero · · Score: 1

      I'm glad SOMEBODY said it. I see more attractive chicks when I go to Carls Jr., geez.

      --
      I belong to the ______ generation.
    26. Re:Google search by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What makes you think that she is a really good mathematician?

    27. Re:Google search by gnuLNX · · Score: 1

      cute? She is perfection.

      --
      what?
    28. Re:Google search by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      She isn't. I had her in 1st year calculus at uni here. It's funny reading comments about how she's intelligent and hot. I didn't think she was a great teacher, and although she dressed well, I never found myself thinking she was that good looking. I've also seen her on various tv shows as well, doing the science-is-cool bit. I don't think she's really as spectacular as some are imagining :-)

    29. Re:Google search by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hit it? I would go klingon on that ass.
      --- Captain Kirk stardate 23523.23957.fsd983.45d

    30. Re:Google search by HidingMyName · · Score: 1

      Interesting. After the obligatory image search I tried to figure out what her research was, but didn't find much in the way of publication listings or research projects. Anybody have an idea of what sorts of math work she has done/published besides the book mentioned in the article?

    31. Re:Google search by Milkyman · · Score: 1

      i didnt search because I knew one of you would do it for me!

    32. Re:Google search by SenseiLeNoir · · Score: 1

      My wife?

      smart... good looking... hot... personality... and knows how to be a wife :)

      --
      Have a nice day!
    33. Re:Google search by Bush+Pig · · Score: 1

      Damn, that's funny (but not very kind).

      --
      What a long, strange trip it's been.
    34. Re:Google search by Bush+Pig · · Score: 1

      Interesting. That's about when I was last there, tidying up some loose ends in my degree (i.e., most of it), but I don't remember seeing her. Was she tutoring Maths I? Because I did that in 1968, so would have missed her for obvious reasons - my tutor for that was Marta Sved (who apparently was at school with Erdos).

      --
      What a long, strange trip it's been.
  7. Incorrect assumption by apoplectic · · Score: 3, Interesting

    "You have to choose your life mate. The rules we adopt for this model are that you will be presented 100 choices one after another, you may date them, sleep with them, whatever. But, at the end, you must say yea or nay and if you say nay, you will never see them again."

    What strategy should you adopt? Well, if you wait to the end, the odds are only 1/100 that the last person is the optimal choice; ditto if you choose the first person.


    The 1/100 chance that the last person is the optimal choice assumes there exists one optimal choice in the original batch of 100 in the first place.

    1. Re:Incorrect assumption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Doesn't it imply the optimal choice of that group?

    2. Re:Incorrect assumption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It should be clear that optimal means the best of the 100.

    3. Re:Incorrect assumption by Bronster · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The 1/100 chance that the last person is the optimal choice assumes there exists one optimal choice in the original batch of 100 in the first place.

      As the cowards have said, of course it's the optimal of that 100.

      Given that, there are many different ways of measuring optimal, but I think that given the question "choose your life mate" the optimal has to be "person who you will be most happy with for the rest of your life".

      Ok, we have a comparison function. Now I don't have a clue how you can tell which one is optimum - and besides you're only going to reach number 100 (assuming they're the best) if the second best was in the first 37.

      I'm also assuming that no two people are exactly identical, and hence no two people are going to be exactly as "enjoy rest of life with" as each other. I think that's a fair assumption with humans.

    4. Re:Incorrect assumption by CMU_Ken · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually, assuming a normal distribution of traits with measurable variance (and 0 identical twins), there is a pretty high probability that one 'winner' among the 100 exists based on weights for/against specific traits.

    5. Re:Incorrect assumption by lifeblender · · Score: 1
      Dude, we covered this in class, for crying out loud. Let's see, how did it go?

      Given: a series of things which have some rating, and that you can only view one at a time, and when viewing one you can either discard it and move on or accept it and stop.

      Question: What strategy will let have the highest possible expected value of the item you pick?

      Answer:
      You need to know the total number, say N.
      View and discard ln N items, recording the highest value among them.
      Then view the remaining items and stop at the first item with a higher value than the highest among the 'preview' group.

      This gives a very good expected value (don't have my book handy for the exact value, Intro to Algorithms, Cormen et al), and even more, it gives a 1/e (one over e) chance of actually picking the highest value item in the group.

      So...

      There are six billion people in the world in counting. Let's narrow that down to maybe 1 million people whom you could communicate with and would really consider as viable options.

      N = 10 ^ 6
      ln N = 13.8...

      Therefore you should date 14 random viable people and leave them all, then go after random viable people and take the first person you find that's better than the first 14. If that special someone was in the first 14... what the hell are you doing? You've still got their phone number or e-mail address, right? Weirdo.

      lifeblender out

      --
      Playing pornographics games during the day is evil! Play at night!
    6. Re:Incorrect assumption by JHromadka · · Score: 4, Funny

      Who cares? You just slept with a hundred people. :)

      --
      "The objective of securing the safety of Americans from crime and terror has been achieved." -- John Ashcroft
    7. Re:Incorrect assumption by mslinux · · Score: 1

      ...I don't have a clue how you can tell which one is optimum...

      Assign numeric values to categories like this:

      Sex [1-5]
      Personality [1-5]
      Education [1-5]
      Financial [1-5]

      Sum all of the chicks up and let the model decide who you should mate with for the rest of your life. You could and should get much more detailed than this (I can think of a ton of sub categories to add to "Sex"... hair color, eye color, body shape, breast size, finger nails, etc. but you get the picture).

    8. Re:Incorrect assumption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      werd, and even if you used protection, they all have a 99% chance to fail, so here's hoping the one that did produces an exceptional child..

    9. Re:Incorrect assumption by EduardoTheBastard · · Score: 1
      I think you got that wrong. If the book states that out of a pool of 100, you need to have a preview group size of 37, how does that number go down to 14 when your pool size is one million?

      The stated value of 37 came from calculating N/e, not ln N.

      You would have to date (about) 367879 people to generate your preview pool. For most of us, that is impractical.

    10. Re:Incorrect assumption by pVoid · · Score: 1
      I agree with the grandparent post.

      The fact that there exists an optimum person for this problem is not trivial. Personally, I think it's like a limit. It might be 0, 1 or +infinity. Then again, a function might not have a limit.

      Given that we are talking about "the rest of your life", I see the comparison to limits as very relevant.

    11. Re:Incorrect assumption by Bronster · · Score: 1

      The fact that there exists an optimum person for this problem is not trivial. Personally, I think it's like a limit. It might be 0, 1 or +infinity. Then again, a function might not have a limit.

      The fact that there exists an optimum person is pretty trivial to prove if you're willing to accept an axiom that no two people are identical.

      Use the same proof you would use to show that of any random set of vectors in N dimensional space, with none of them having equal lengths to any other, there must be one which is the longest.

      Now calculating that and being able to know at the time which one is "the one" out of those one hundred, that's a different story. As a line from a great song by an Aussie band goes: "she's one in a millon, so there's 6 more just in New South Wales".

      Conclusion: theoretically (which is what maths is good at) it makes sense, but practically you can't tell.

      Says me who married the first woman I was in a relationship with for more than a week - I guess I wasn't not very mathematical about it, or something.

    12. Re:Incorrect assumption by Bronster · · Score: 1

      Assign numeric values to categories like this: ... and then scale them by how much each one is important to you, otherwise you'll find out quick enough that your model was flawed.

      While you're at it, realise that what's most important to you now is not what's most important to you later in life, so integrate across the years.

      In conclusion, you probably want different girls at different times in your life. Try convincing them to go along with that plan though - maybe you'd better move to Utah, but that has its own problems ;)

    13. Re:Incorrect assumption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This strategy is optimum because it maximizes the probability of getting the absolute best mate (out of the 100). However, clearly there's a 1/e probability that you end up with no one at all (or the last person, if you no they are the last), so the expected rank of the mate you find is very undesirable. Another (more clever) strategy can actually guarantee that you end up with one of your top c choices in expectation for a constant c.

    14. Re:Incorrect assumption by pVoid · · Score: 1
      The fact that there exists an optimum person is pretty trivial to prove if you're willing to accept an axiom that no two people are identical.

      Absolutely wrong. It implies that your dealing with an ordered set. Just off the top of my head of unordered sets, any n dimensional space with n > 2 is ordered (think matrices), complex numbers fall into that category too. Saying the length of the vector can be ordered is changing the problem from an n-dimension space, to a uni-dimensional scalar space (the length of the vector).

      The norm is that sets are not ordered. Not the other way around.

      My point though is that, maybe, just maybe, you can't be happy with someone all your life. Maybe that is the fate of only some people, and that for some other people, life partnering doesn't work.

      That's much more sociological, and is basically opinion, but the above statement you make about math is absolutely wrong.

    15. Re:Incorrect assumption by Bronster · · Score: 1

      aying the length of the vector can be ordered is changing the problem from an n-dimension space, to a uni-dimensional scalar space (the length of the vector).

      That's perfectly true, however we're trying to find a uni-dimensional value "amount of happiness you will have with such person for the rest of your life"

      My point though is that, maybe, just maybe, you can't be happy with someone all your life.

      Ok, so we need to add another vector to our above set, which is your happiness with no partner. Lather, Rinse, Repeat. If it turns out that's the longest vector then by all means don't partner.

      You said "Absolutely wrong" twice about my optimum person statement, but as I see it your argument basically boils down to "there is no method (omni-whatsit God providing details aside) of knowing which multi-dimensional person maps to the largest uni-dimensional life-happiness for you".

      Sure, I agree. That doesn't mean that if you had perfect forward knowledge about the rest of your life and could conduct parallel universe tests with each of the 100 people that you met, and evaluate the sum happiness at the end of the tests, that my argument would be invalid.

      In summary - sure you need to be able to predict the future with perfect accuracy for there to be any point, but if there was then it is possible to come up with a unidimensional happiness value.

      You do raise a very good point about the happiness value of 'not partnered' being an important member of the set you need to examine. Consider it the 'reserve price' if you will.

    16. Re:Incorrect assumption by apoplectic · · Score: 1

      Optimal: the amount or degree of something that is most favorable to some end

      Assuming that all the mates presented are terrible...you would argue that one is the best choice of the bunch, a local maximum, or in your words: "optimal." I would argue that by the definition above (Websters), none of the terrible choices is "favorable" at all and therefore none are "most favorable" or "optimal" in the first place.

    17. Re:Incorrect assumption by Bronster · · Score: 1

      Assuming that all the mates presented are terrible...

      See also my response to one of the other replies. I did of course forget to add the 'stay single' datapoint, and the amount of happiness you would gain from that over the course of your life.

      If that's higher than any of the 100 choices then your best option is to stay single.

    18. Re:Incorrect assumption by pVoid · · Score: 1
      "there is no method (omni-whatsit God providing details aside) of knowing which multi-dimensional person maps to the largest uni-dimensional life-happiness for you".

      My point is more based on the fact that "amount of happieness" kind of statements boil down to scalar math.

      What if amount of happieness is not a number, but a function of time, that the function does not have a limit at infinity (until the end of your life). What if the total amount of happieness is basically the integral of this time function. What if, this function is *not* integratable (cymbal crash).

      What if, everyone could maximize the overall 'world' happieness by choosing partners where the time function was the best for a specific period in time.

      What if I there existed a theorem that said that no single function will have a greater integral than two other well chosen functions combined and integrated (e.g. for any f0[n,infinity], there exists f1 [20,35], f2[39,65] such that integral of f1 + f2 > f0)?

      The answer, we don't know, and I don't think anyone will ever. But mathematically speaking, the fact that you can't prove such two functions don't exist is enough to say that all of the preceding discussions about mathematically going about things is absolute not rigorous.

      Don't get me wrong, I'm no heathen, I would really like to find my soul mate and live the rest of my life with her (or him, who knows). But I also find that a) the search for the soul mate can be just as constructive (if done properly), and b) that if we are going to go Mathematical on these sorts of problems, we need to stay mathematical, and examine things with pure logic, which doesn't allow for lax parameters such as "optimal happieness"...

    19. Re:Incorrect assumption by Bronster · · Score: 1

      What if amount of happieness is not a number, but a function of time, that the function does not have a limit at infinity (until the end of your life). What if the total amount of happieness is basically the integral of this time function. What if, this function is *not* integratable (cymbal crash).

      Err... would you care to give me an example of a not integratable function.

      Yep, I thought so.

      It doesn't look anything like the sort of function that's bounded above by the sort of instant rapture that causes you to die instantly from the sheer joy of it (give me some poetic licence here, we are talking theoretical intanglibles after all, and they're devilish tricky) and below by the maximum unhappiness that would cause you to die instantly of despair.

      Furthermore, it doesn't move immediately from one to the other - it takes your brain a certain amoun t of time to absorb events and respond by shifting its happiness index, so there aren't even instant discontinuities (something that makes things hard to differentiate, but doesn't hurt integratability btw).

      Finally it's bounded at the start within a year before your birth (let's give those twinkles in your parents' eyes the benefit of the doubt and go outside the range here) and the point of your death.

      Ok, so if you believe in reincarnation then it's a bit harder, but you can still keep score just for the single life, assuming no spillover between lives.

      Looks like whatever function you throw on there you can integrate to sufficient precision by reading your happiness quotient every [delta] microseconds and summing them all up across the span of your life.

      we need to stay mathematical, and examine things with pure logic, which doesn't allow for lax parameters such as "optimal happieness"...

      Sure it does. All you need is a function which takes (a state of the universe, a time_space_fuzzy_pinpointer_thing, the identify of one person_soul_whatsit) and returns a scalar. I don't know what that function is, but one presumes that a God-like critter would, and you sort of need one for this game to work anyway.

    20. Re:Incorrect assumption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Err... would you care to give me an example of a not integratable function.

      Sure. Here. Very important in Fourier series.

      Mathematics aren't that simple. And the whole purpose of this conversation was to look at a mathematical analogy, so I would defend that we go all the way and see if the analogy mathematically holds. It doesn't. And that is the end of this thread.

      -pVoid

      Move along... nothing to see here...

  8. You had me at sex by vandon · · Score: 1

    Any pictures included?
    I'd like to run a model on her and show her I'm a standard deviation.

  9. That ol' integral joke by mekkab · · Score: 4, Funny

    The Integral of e to the x equals f of u sub n,
    which looks like

    Sex = Fun.

    Wow. Ascii sure takes the fun out of a high school math joke!

    --
    In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
    1. Re:That ol' integral joke by phobos13013 · · Score: 1

      well i dont know _LaTex_ or anything but uh, that should be something more joke-killing like

      Z(e^x) = f(u_n)

      --
      ...and it should be known by now
    2. Re:That ol' integral joke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You forgot about the "distortion voltage"... Sex = f(un) + Vd

    3. Re:That ol' integral joke by RackinFrackin · · Score: 1

      In LaTeX that would be

      $\int e^x = f(u_n)$

      That joke always bugged be because it lacks a differential after the integrand. However, it reminds me of a shirt I saw at Dragon*Con. Plain black with

      $\int_{10}^{13} 2x dx$ ?

      on the front in white.

    4. Re:That ol' integral joke by phobos13013 · · Score: 1

      That joke always bugged be because it lacks a differential after the integrand.

      I knew i was going to get sucked into some geek-speak here but well i avoided that pitfall by using the Z which was meant as a summation rather than an S which _kinda_ looks like the Calc I pictorial thing they use...

      --
      ...and it should be known by now
    5. Re:That ol' integral joke by Alakaboo · · Score: 1

      This works too: Se^x = e^x + C

      Sex = Ecstacy

      Of course, you lose your dx, but who's counting? (pun intended)

    6. Re:That ol' integral joke by TedCheshireAcad · · Score: 1

      $\int{10}^{13} 2x dx$

      Sorry but I don't get it...

    7. Re:That ol' integral joke by andreyw · · Score: 1

      Take the integral. Hint hint. Its *not* 68 or 70.

    8. Re:That ol' integral joke by bennomatic · · Score: 1
      But the integral of e to the power of x equals e to the power of x, so:

      Sex = ex

      Is this why so breakup sex is so good?

      --
      The CB App. What's your 20?
    9. Re:That ol' integral joke by bennomatic · · Score: 1

      And yes, I know that it should be e^x, but it just doesn't look as good...

      --
      The CB App. What's your 20?
    10. Re:That ol' integral joke by Lemm · · Score: 1

      I never thought I'd see the day when we desperately needed MathML.

      --
      No boom today. Boom tomorrow. Always boom tomorrow. BOOM!
  10. and here it is by pdiaz · · Score: 1

    the only thing that you are really interested of this article: a photo of her

    --
    Make It Secret . Free JavaScript implementation of AES for your browser
  11. Patterns? by Spillman · · Score: 3, Interesting

    And what is sexual behavior but the most intriguing pattern of all?

    Apparently he never saw Pi.

    --
    sig?
    1. Re:Patterns? by tyrione · · Score: 1

      Sure he did. He was just too busy eating Pi to notice.

  12. Here she is. by Ghostgate · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Come on, you know you were curious! Here's the author, Clio Cresswell.

    1. Re:Here she is. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  13. Mathematicians = Evolutionary Dead End by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The majority of women just find introverted science/tech/math types unattractive.

  14. Now I have a new pickup line. by kwilliamyoungatl · · Score: 5, Funny

    In addition to "How 'bout you plus me subtract our clothes, you divide your legs and we multiply", I can use the less cheesy "Hey baby, I'm a mathamatician"
    Oh, yeah.
    -kwy

    1. Re:Now I have a new pickup line. by Limburgher · · Score: 2, Funny
      mathamatician

      And clearly not an English major. ;)

      --

      You are not the customer.

    2. Re:Now I have a new pickup line. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "How 'bout you plus me subtract our clothes, you divide your legs and we multiply", I can use the less cheesy "Hey baby, I'm a mathamatician"

      How girls should reply this line?

      "Sorry baby, I'm looking for more than just a simple algebra."

    3. Re:Now I have a new pickup line. by SJ · · Score: 3, Funny

      How the hell do you expect to multiply after dividing her legs if you don't give her a good square root?

      Then again, a root kit is something entirely different here in Australia.

    4. Re:Now I have a new pickup line. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      "Sorry baby, I'm looking for more than just a simple algebra."

      That would be a good time to point out that the word algebra comes, via Latin and Arabic, from the Semitic root meaning either "strong man" or "might".

    5. Re:Now I have a new pickup line. by AnalogDiehard · · Score: 1

      Didn't you forget some addition?

      --
      Eternity: will that be smoking, or non-smoking? I Corinthians 6:9-10
  15. hmmmmm by Anubis350 · · Score: 3, Funny

    gives whole new meaning to the squeeze theorum and the chain rule.... :-p

    --
    "goodbye and hello, as always" ~Prince Corwin, from Zelazny's Amber series
    1. Re:hmmmmm by roesti · · Score: 1

      ... and the Pumping Lemma.

    2. Re:hmmmmm by Second_Derivative · · Score: 1

      Don't remind me... (CS exam tomorrow, language processing can go to hell)

      Although I've never heard of a squeeze theorem. Maybe he meant sandwich thm?

    3. Re:hmmmmm by kryptkpr · · Score: 1

      The squeeze theorem is taught in 2nd year calculus, used to evaluate limits of some functions..

      --
      DJ kRYPT's Free MP3s!
    4. Re:hmmmmm by Second_Derivative · · Score: 1

      Ah I see. We call it the Sandwich Theorem.

  16. Mathmatics in sex... by Striker770S · · Score: 1

    55 degrees to the right going parallel to the ground and perpendicular to the target. Heading on the z-axis, you must obtain a constant velocity otherwise you cannot break the force threshhold. Sigh, so many bad things that math should not be mixed with. Im sorry but fractals do not stimulate me in that way (although there better than fat women!).

    --
    I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. - Catcher in the Rye
  17. Building mathematics based models for sex... by anactofgod · · Score: 2, Funny

    Didn't I see this movie in the 80s? "Weird Science"?

    --

    ---anactofgod---

    "Equal opportunity swindling - *that* is the true test of a sustainable democracy."
  18. The math of sex by nizo · · Score: 1

    While This movie about John Nash did show how you can use math to get sex, it sadly came at the expense of the man's sanity.

    1. Re:The math of sex by ScriptMonkey · · Score: 2, Funny

      Sounds like a good deal to me! Where do I sign up?

    2. Re:The math of sex by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Didn't need the math for that, men have been losing their sanity trying to get sex for time untold.

  19. Mind you by bigberk · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Studying mathematics is often a sure-fire way to never get sex.

    1. Re:Mind you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...unless you are woman...

  20. Calculating the number of times I've had sex and by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I keep getting a negative number. . .

  21. I prefer the combination "engineering and sex"... by kzinti · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...especially the detailed, in-depth research into topics such as "fluid-damped, mutually exciting, pair-coupled oscillators."

  22. Mathematics: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Mathematics: The lesbian sister of biology - P Griffen.

  23. 36.787944117144235! by chjones · · Score: 5, Funny
    You can prove mathematically that the best strategy is to look at (approximately) the first 36.787944117144235 people (rounding it to, say, 37 people) and then you should choose the first person from that point on that is 'better' then the previous 37 people.

    Waddya know, Kevin Smith was onto something.

    --

    Christian Jones
    Medicine. Mathematics. Mediocrity.

    1. Re:36.787944117144235! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Works wonders for me!
      Altho the 37th girl is a little shorter than the rest, hence she's the .787944116144235

    2. Re:36.787944117144235! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      What was his codomain? I never knew Smith was surjective :-)

      (ducks)

    3. Re:36.787944117144235! by chjones · · Score: 1

      Nice. Finally, a post with math puns! ;-)

      --

      Christian Jones
      Medicine. Mathematics. Mediocrity.

  24. Men Avoid Marrying Strong Women by glrotate · · Score: 4, Interesting

    http://www.betterhumans.com/News/news.aspx?article ID=2004-12-10-2

    Finding supports anecdotal evidence and reinforces evolutionary theory of human mate selection
    Betterhumans Staff
    12/10/2004 3:20 PM

    Men don't want to marry powerful women, shows a new study that supports anecdotal evidence and reinforces evolutionary theories of human mate selection.

    The study highlights the importance of relational dominance in mate selection and discusses the evolutionary utility of male concerns about mating with dominant females.

    "These findings provide empirical support for the widespread belief that powerful women are at a disadvantage in the marriage market because men may prefer to marry less accomplished women," says social psychologist and study lead author Stephanie Brown of the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor.

    Subordinate attraction

    With the help of a grant from the US National Institute of Mental Health, Brown and coauthor Brian Lewis from the University of California, Los Angeles tested 120 male and 208 female undergraduates by asking them to rate their attraction and desire to affiliate with a man and a woman they were said to know from work.

    "Imagine that you have just taken a job and that Jennifer (or John) is your immediate supervisor (or your peer, or your assistant)," study participants were told as they were shown a photo of a male or a female.

    After seeing the photo and hearing the description of the person's role at work in relation to their own, participants were asked to use a nine-point scale (in which one is not at all, and nine is very much) to rate the extent to which they would enjoy going to a party with Jennifer or John, exercising with the person, dating the person and marrying the person.

    Brown and Lewis found that males, but not females, were most strongly attracted to subordinate partners for high-investment activities such as marriage and dating.

    Cautious investors

    "Our results demonstrate that male preference for subordinate women increases as the investment in the relationship increases," says Brown. "This pattern is consistent with the possibility that there were reproductive advantages for males who preferred to form long-term relationships with relatively subordinate partners.

    "Given that female infidelity is a severe reproductive threat to males only when investment is high, a preference for subordinate partners may provide adaptive benefits to males in the context of only long-term, investing relationships--not one-night stands."

    According to Brown, the findings are consistent with earlier research showing that expressions of vulnerability enhance female attractiveness. "Our results also provide further explanation for why males might attend to dominance-linked characteristics of women such as relative age or income, and why adult males typically prefer partners who are younger and make less money."

    The research is reported in the journal Evolution and Human Behavior (read abstract).

    1. Re:Men Avoid Marrying Strong Women by kitty+tape · · Score: 1

      It seems that that is just as likely to be social as biological.

      --
      ----- "Type theory is like pretzels on crack." -- random friend
    2. Re:Men Avoid Marrying Strong Women by geekpuppySEA · · Score: 1
      Sociology IS biology.

      Like biology is chemistry: at a level where mass interactions of chemicals occur, biology exhibits emergent properties, yes; but anywhere below that level and it's all chemistry.

      Every social convention (and there are lots that are cross-cultural, or if you will, 'species-typical') can be demonstrated to have been involved in helping humans solve survival/reproduction problems faced on the savannahs of eastern africa.

      Okay, maybe we can't demonstrate them all today, but it's gonna happen eventually. Trust, yo.

      --
      Intelligent Design: because MATH is HARD.
    3. Re:Men Avoid Marrying Strong Women by beaststwo · · Score: 1
      That's because they're idiots. I (an engineer) married a woman (another engineer) with a powerful personality, and we get along fine. It's a matter of whether you want real partnership (with all it's hassles) or an any employer/employee controlling relationship.

      The section on "Cautious investors" reminds me of a PBS show on sex and relationships. A scientist took a picture of a "manly man" and a very feminine looking man and set up a computer to morph between them. They set women in front of the screen watching the pictures morph back and forth and asked two questions:

      1. Click on the person you'd like to party/sleep with.
      2. Click on the person you'd like to marry and raise a family with.

      The women overwhelming chose just below the extreme of the "manly man" to party/sleep with and about halfway between the "manly man" and the effeminate man to marry and raise a family with.

      When asked about their choices, they tended to say that the "manly man" type would be exciting to hang with but would make a rotten life partner. They also said that the guy halfway inbetween would make a great life partner, but wouldn't be exciting.

      Made sense why those of us not of the biker/tough guy genre often feel ignored. I guess they're not ready for anything serious...

    4. Re:Men Avoid Marrying Strong Women by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      I would never date/marry someone with a "powerful personality" because that really is just a nice way of saying they are know-it-all possibly elitist, quite arrogant, snobs. Also, I would never date someone who has a blog or uses words such as "blogosphere" because, since we are talking stereotypes and not real people, those types tend to be pseudo-intellectual trash.

    5. Re:Men Avoid Marrying Strong Women by beaststwo · · Score: 1
      There's a big difference between finding an easy mate and launching into a true life-long adventure. I guess what I was really saying is that I married no shrinking violet. When we were dating we each realized that we were both full of crap and figured that such a level of honesty had to be the basis of a great partnership. That was 15 years ago...

      It's not for the faint of heart, but neither is much in life that's worthwhile!

    6. Re:Men Avoid Marrying Strong Women by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not really. Many of them may be new developments. They might be successful, they might not. The successful ones will continue, the others will not. Natural selection is allowed to take its time. There have been many fashion trends that didn't work out (hair that collected spiders, girdles that restricted the abdomen or hips...)

      There's also the fact that we have come to a point where we are no longer struggling for survival, and can keep the weaker members alive. People with Down's syndrome, diabetes, paralysis, myopia, all sorts of problems that would be fatal to someone in the wild can live a happy life and breed now. We can certainly keep around a bunch of insensitive men.

      I would be interested to see this study done in the Philipeans (sp?). They have a more matriarchal society, so men might want a stronger woman.

    7. Re:Men Avoid Marrying Strong Women by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In addition to the other reply's point about poor traits that haven't been eliminated, modern society poses very different problems than the savannah. Complex social mechanisms can distort the balance of power.

      In modern society, the "would you sleep with a direct supervisor" question conjures fears of sexual harrassment law and firings for fraternization. The true power in the system is an abstract, hidden authority that has nothing to do with the reproductive/sexual issue at hand, so men seek mates that the authority doesn't care about.

      The results are largely the same, but the mechanism producing the results is very different from what shaped evolution, in the same way a propellor is very different from a wheel, but they both spin and make things go.

      That said, there are still direct biological factors, especially the fact that most men have to put a lot of effort into getting a woman. They go after the ones the perceive as attainable, and it's only natural to assume that a powerful woman won't do whatever you tell her to.

  25. Charles Jones, Ph.D by Tackhead · · Score: 1
    > "The more Romeo loves Juliet, the More Juliet wants to run away ... Romeo gets discouraged and backs off, Juliet finds him strangely attractive. Romeo tends to echo her..."

    ...as first illustrated by the esteemed mathematician Charles Jones, in his 1949 paper For Scent-I-Mental Reasons...

  26. Sex is all about math... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...ask 20 girls, one always says "Yes!"

    1. Re:Sex is all about math... by The+MESMERIC · · Score: 0

      gosh you are lucky.
      I usually have to go through 200.

    2. Re:Sex is all about math... by austad · · Score: 4, Funny

      Actually, they saying is more like 100. A friend of mine in college lived by this rule. We'd go out to bars, and he'd just go up to every woman he saw and ask until one said yes. He brought someone home every night, but, you can imagine the type of women that would be likely to say yes to that....

      --
      Need Free Juniper/NetScreen Support? JuniperForum
    3. Re:Sex is all about math... by xetaprag · · Score: 1

      Quality vs. Quantity... also an economics dilema.

    4. Re:Sex is all about math... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're asking the wrong 20. Concentrate on ones that are very drunk and in dimly lit places.

    5. Re:Sex is all about math... by The+MESMERIC · · Score: 0

      You mean the wrong 200?
      OK very drunk and dimly lit places.
      I know .. Siberia! :)

    6. Re:Sex is all about math... by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      MMMoooooooooo

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    7. Re:Sex is all about math... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So whats the best bet, asking randomly or answering randomly?

      -- dag

    8. Re:Sex is all about math... by superflippy · · Score: 1

      Gene Simmons of KISS once said in an interview that he employed this method. Though, all things considered, he was probably more likely to get a yes sooner rather than later.

      --
      Your fantasies contain the seeds of important concepts.
  27. A question for Clio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are you differentiable? Because I want to be tangent to your curves!

  28. What Interests High School Students? by snookerdoodle · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Looks like we've found a slightly confused answer right here.

    1. Re:What Interests High School Students? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      as a high school student I must agree

      Oberi

      (www.livejournal.com/users/oberi)

  29. prostituting mathematics by goombah99 · · Score: 4, Funny

    What is so interesting about sex? This is nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt to use mathematics to sell a book on sex to the enourmous geek market. Shameless exploitation I tell you! Real geeks want Pi not Pie.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    1. Re:prostituting mathematics by CanadianCrackPot · · Score: 1

      Speak for yourself! I've had a bit too much Pi in my life, and 0 calories of deserty goodness... sigh no wonder I've lost most of my drive to do stuff lately.

      --
      Good programmers drink beer to relieve job stress.
      Great programmers drink hard liquor and work best hungover.
    2. Re:prostituting mathematics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is that (enourmous geek) market or (enourmous) (geek) market?

  30. Did you hear the one about the dumb blonde? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    She was so dumb, she slept with the mathematician after she was done with the writer.

  31. 100 Choices by Icarus1919 · · Score: 0, Redundant

    I'd say if you're this into mathematics, than you'd be pretty lucky to have 100 women to choose from in your lifetime.

    1. Re:100 Choices by lousyd · · Score: 1
      I'd say if you're this into mathematics, than you'd be pretty lucky to have 100 women to choose from in your lifetime.

      I'd say that if this woman felt herself lucky to have women to choose from, I'd mod her up +1 Interesting.

      --
      If aspiration is a virtue, achievement cannot be a vice.
  32. It's call Sexagesimal! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    After all, you can't have sexagesimal calculations without 'sex'. In fact, mariners have used SEXtets for ages! There is no shortage of sex in mathematics, just shortage of people using them.

  33. Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So my real question is:
    How can we apply algebra to this?
    x = male orgasms/week = 1
    y = number of men = 1
    z = number of women = 1
    b = male orgasm length in seconds = .50444432954739
    c = probability of woman achieving climax = ?

    c+(x+b) = ((yb)/z)c)

  34. Re:I prefer the combination "engineering and sex". by sqrt(2) · · Score: 2, Funny

    fluid-damped, mutually exciting, pair-coupled oscillators.

    Reading that gave me as much entertainment as I had from the ages of 1 to 19.

    Or maybe I'm just being irrational.

    --
    If you build it, nerds will come. Soylentnews.org
  35. Curvelinear Geometry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Was my personal favorite in college;-) (An, come to think of it, before and after college too!)

  36. Sex after marriage by cwest · · Score: 3, Funny

    "how absurd the folk tale is that more sex occurs in the first year of marriage then in all subsequent years combined"

    It is a well-documented dietary fact that a woman's lack of sexual desire is caused by the consumption of wedding cake.

    1. Re:Sex after marriage by maxchaote · · Score: 1

      Try telling that to the bridesmaids.

    2. Re:Sex after marriage by JimmytheGeek · · Score: 1

      An old Bachelor Party toast -

      "Here's to nights of unrestricted access to sex...how you'll miss it!"

  37. What Interests High School Students? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Mathematics and Sex.

    It's nice to see two different slashdot articles complement each other so nicely. :)

  38. Picture and Bio of Author by eander315 · · Score: 1

    Here is a bio page with photograph of the author, for anyone interested.

    1. Re:Picture and Bio of Author by eander315 · · Score: 1

      I now feel like I just posted to a Playboy Playmate "discussion" forum. Nice...

    2. Re:Picture and Bio of Author by 0racle · · Score: 1

      That ain't no woman! It's a fellow, man!
      I feel so retarded now.

      --
      "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
  39. About Pi by XoloX · · Score: 1
    ;)

    By the way: Did you see "Requiem For a Dream"? If not, do so immediately! In some ways even better then Pi!

    XoloX

    1. Re:About Pi by Spillman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Offtopic but I have to say it.

      I feel America's DARE program needs to be replaced by having kids watch Requiem for a Dream. They'll never do drugs.

      --
      sig?
  40. Juxtaposed by SamMichaels · · Score: 1

    Using a word like juxtaposed won't do much for you, either.

  41. obligatory Pi quote, revisited by geekpuppySEA · · Score: 1

    A universe of numbers that represents the global economy, millions of humans hands at work, billions of minds, a vast network, screaming with life - an orgasm. A natural orgasm.

    --
    Intelligent Design: because MATH is HARD.
  42. Re:In Soviet Sweden... by CrazyJim1 · · Score: 0

    My old phone number was: 4643. I'd tell girls for sex for free, and they'd say WHAT?, I'd repeat 4643, and they'd go Oh.

  43. Land of Nicole Kidman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and remember this is the land of Nicole Kidman

    Just to spite the poster, I thought I'd point out this article:

    <http://news.mcmedia.com.au/story.asp?TakeNo=200 41 2064418512>

  44. Re:Calculating the number of times I've had sex an by hobbesx · · Score: 5, Funny



    I think you meant imaginary.

    --
    This rating is Unfair ( ) ( ) Fair (*) Funny
    Sigh... If only. Modding would be so much more fun.
  45. Main page headline order by Suffering+Bastard · · Score: 1

    Okay, this is a little off topic, but when I glanced at my RSS reader to see the latest Slashdot headlines, I was more than amused to find "What Interests High-School Students?" immediately followed by "Mathematics and Sex".

    Sounds about right!

    --
    "Molest me not with this pocket calculator stuff."
    - Deep Thought
  46. Makes sense... by raehl · · Score: 1

    If the author believes sex is a pattern, that would explain his familiarity with the lack of sex, in mathematics or otherwise.

    Good sex is art, not math.

    Maybe a nice fractal every now and again.

    1. Re:Makes sense... by Ahnteis · · Score: 1

      Check the cover of the book.
      She.

      I've never noticed nerdy/geeky girls having any trouble finding sex if they want it. Guys don't seem to mind so much.

    2. Re:Makes sense... by raehl · · Score: 1

      Check author of submission.

      He.

      The hot author of the book, I'm sure, has no problems with lack of sex.

    3. Re:Makes sense... by TerranFury · · Score: 1

      > Good sex is art, not math.

      Common misconception: Math is art. The rest is calculation.

  47. Book Cover by amembleton · · Score: 1
  48. Congressional Seats... by raehl · · Score: 1

    If the way congressional seats are allocated in the US bears any resemblence to models for sexual behavior, wouldn't we expect Republicans to be getting more sex, especially in Texas?

  49. Written by... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...shouldn't a book review at least mention the author's name? (I looked it up, but still...)

  50. Men Avoid Marrying Strong Women-She-Hulk. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Men don't want to marry powerful women, shows a new study that supports anecdotal evidence and reinforces evolutionary theories of human mate selection."

    Hey! I like powerful women. they can hold me down while I'm in the throes of sex, better that the weak ones can.

  51. robot poets by TheLastUser · · Score: 2, Informative

    from "The Cyberiad" by Stanislaw Lem

    Come, let us hasten to a higher plane
    Where dyads tread the fairy fields of Venn,
    Their indices bedecked from one to n
    Commingled in an endless Markov chain!

    Come, every frustrum longs to be a cone
    And every vector dreams of matrices.
    Hark to the gentle gradient of the breeze:
    It whispers of a more ergodic zone.

    In Riemann, Hilbert or in Banach space
    Let superscripts and subscripts go their ways.
    Our asymptotes no longer out of phase,
    We shall encounter, counting, face to face.

    I'll grant thee random access to my heart,
    Thou'lt tell me all the constants of thy love;
    And so we two shall all love's lemmas prove,
    And in our bound partition never part.

    For what did Cauchy know, or Christoffel,
    Or Fourier, or any Bools or Euler,
    Wielding their compasses, their pens and rulers,
    Of thy supernal sinusoidal spell?

    Cancel me not - for what then shall remain?
    Abscissas some mantissas, modules, modes,
    A root or two, a torus and a node:
    The inverse of my verse, a null domain.

    Ellipse of bliss, converge, O lips divine!
    the product o four scalars is defines!
    Cyberiad draws nigh, and the skew mind
    Cuts capers like a happy haversine.

    I see the eigenvalue in thine eye,
    I hear the tender tensor in thy sigh.
    Bernoulli would have been content to die,
    Had he but known such a^2 cos 2 phi!

  52. However, many *women* would want to... by geekpuppySEA · · Score: 1

    While I agree with and enjoyed the premise of the parent post (being a fan of pop- and serious-science endeavors involving evolutionary psychology, of which "The Moral Animal" and "The Adapted Mind" were earlier explanations of the same phenoms discussed in Cresswell"'s book) ...

    I have to point out that a typical heterosexist slant exists in a lot of these studies. What about the LESBIANS?!

    --
    Intelligent Design: because MATH is HARD.
  53. Quick question then... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So if you date 36 women, and the optimal one happens to be one of them, does that mean that you would now reject every single one of the remaining 64 except for the last one? Doesn't that give you a 1/3 chance of being stuck with the 100th date automatically, no matter how bad they are?

  54. Recommended Site by rinkjustice · · Score: 5, Funny

    This reminds me of this clever essay someone wrote, where he determines through demographics and statistical calculus why he will never have a girlfriend.

    Hilariously geeky stuff.

    1. Re:Recommended Site by G.+W.+Bush+Junior · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Agreed... that great stuff.

      But I'd have to disagree with him... he is *extremely* picky. He will only settle for the top 2% beautiful girls.

      The top 2% is comparable to *the* ultimate babe in your highschool.
      If he's not willing to accept girls who are not at least as beautiful as that girl everyone lusted for in highschool who is at the same time smarter than 85% of people out there, then you've got issues.
      I've met one girl personally throughout all of my life that *might* qualify according to those criteria...

      --
      "I don't know that Atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots." -George H.W. Bush
  55. Sex vs. Logic by mattOzan · · Score: 2, Funny
    "Wow, what an intriguing title! When I was getting my Ph.D in math, the words 'sex' and 'mathematics' were not juxtaposed all that often...

    How about Monty Python's Logic vs. Sex?

  56. Kidman - born in Hawaii by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Kidman was, iirc, born in Hawaii, which makes her an American who only seems Australian. Kinda like Mel Gibson (born in New York.)

    1. Re:Kidman - born in Hawaii by urbaer · · Score: 2, Funny

      Australia has been granted the ability to claim any person that does okay in music, movies or tv as an Australian, as long as they come from an island country. They are then subject to the anti-tall poppy syndrome. As soon as they go insane or do badly they are no longer Australians (such as Mel Gibson and Russel Crowe). Some people claim that John Howard is an Australian, the actor is, the prime minister may be an American...

      I'm not sure that her recent films are quite as good as BMX Bandits, but there you go...

  57. Simple Equation.. by sinner0423 · · Score: 1

    Add the bed
    Subtract the clothes
    Divide her legs
    Multiply

    Thanks, I'll be here all week.

  58. The optimal strategy is to... by exp(pi*sqrt(163)) · · Score: 1

    ...test out all 100 candidates. That way you get laid 100 times. If you just marry the 38th candidate she'll decide she has a headache every night from the moment you agree to be a 'life mate'.

    --
    Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
    1. Re:The optimal strategy is to... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're assuming that they'll want to date you again after you "tested" (on average) 50 others. If you can pull that off, you don't need to marry.

  59. Mathematics and Sex by vginders · · Score: 1


    The answer on the previous slashdot post.

    --

    Serge
  60. The actual line was... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I noone goes for the blonde, we all get laid.

  61. But the little mouse told me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Assuming an ordered set it obvious that we need to go precisely 5.212055882855765 people past the optimal stopping point. The mice told us a while ago the anwser was 42...

  62. The Mathematics Of Sex-Starved Slashdot. by Dystopian+Rebel · · Score: 1

    Given an article about a book on mathematics and sex written by any symmetrically-formed woman under the age of 40, what is the probability that:

    a) the number "69" will appear among the first 10 replies?

    b) a WWW image link for the book's author will appear among the first 10 replies?

    c) an offer of marriage will be extended to the book's author in an e-mail from a Slashdot scribe who owns a Batman suit?

    c)ii) that said scribe will brush the Fig Newton crumbs of off his Batman suit to add a sort of gallant flourish to the marriage proposal?

    c)iii) that said scribe will yell up to his mother from the basement to bring more Fig Newtons?

    d) that the book author will employ unusually refined anti-spam rules to filter her e-mail for the next six months?

    e) that the book author is a Windows user?

    --
    Rich And Stupid is not so bad as Working For Rich And Stupid.
  63. The Curse of Dimensionality by ZorbaTHut · · Score: 2, Insightful

    is actually rather solvable, especially in this situation.

    Most people decide to use Euclidean distance, or distance-squared. It's possible to do some statistical tests comparing it to Manhattan distance, or distance-added, and you end up with Manhattan distance often being a "better" indication. So why not exaggerate?

    Take the general formula d=sum(abs(x_n^v),n=1..nmax)^(1/v). Euclidean distance is this formula with v=2, Manhattan distance with v=1. Lower v below 1 - 0.5, 0.3, or lower - and you get a distance metric that works quite well with high numbers of dimensions.

    Meanwhile, back in reality, the meaning of this distance metric is something along the lines of "it's okay if there are a few major differences, as long as mostly we're a good match", as opposed to "avoid major differences at all costs" . . . so instead of getting someone who's marginally different from you in all ways, you get someone who's very similar to you except for one major difference.

    Which can be interesting.

    Sometimes, the kind of "interesting" that involves handcuffs . . . either in the good way or the bad way.

    I don't know if any online dating sites do this or not. But they should.

    (For the curious: On the surprising behavior of distance metrics in high dimensional space)

    --
    Breaking Into the Industry - A development log about starting a game studio.
    1. Re:The Curse of Dimensionality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Problems with this (not unworkable, but still problems). Different people like different distances. i.e. Person A's dream mate is a 98% match (more or less all the same interests, opinions, and even character traits). Person B's ideal mate is a 32% match. You'd first have to have a method of measuring the approximate ideal distance--and you'd have to assume that the person in question wouldn't be able to tell you what that distance was--you'd have to observe it based on test interactions with X potential mates and see what gets the best reaction. Then there's "what's a good reaction?" If Person A and Person X become best friends but don't get married, does that mean they're close to the right distance? Well, for some people the "friend distance" might not be the same as the "mate distance". Hard to say.

      Then, also, not all distances are equal. The maximum possible distance on Jim Carrey (Person A loves him, Person B hates him) isn't nearly as important for some people as the maximum distance on George W Bush. Just like with the "ideal distance", which characteristics have longer maximum distances may not be something you could entirely count on the person to reveal about themselves.

      A lot of people say about their spouses, "I'd have never suspected I'd end up with [a Martha Stewart disciple, a sports fanatic, a Republican], but we just fell in love" One of the problems with online dating is that, by pre-filtering your prospects based on what you THINK is important, you may actually be filtering out the best candidate!

      In short, just go down to the bar and get drunk and start chatting. Your odds may be better BECAUSE of the randomness (except, of course, the probable lack of geographical randomness and ...oh well).

    2. Re:The Curse of Dimensionality by perdu · · Score: 1
      A lot of people say about their spouses, "I'd have never suspected I'd end up with [a Martha Stewart disciple, a sports fanatic, a Republican], but we just fell in love" One of the problems with online dating is that, by pre-filtering your prospects based on what you THINK is important, you may actually be filtering out the best candidate!
      True, but everyone has preference dimensions that are more important then others. I was using on-line dating services alot the last couple of years. After some trial and error, found that being reasonably fit and enjoying outdoor activities were critical to me, but other characteristics less so: politics, religion, being a "10"...

      Once you learn your critical preferences, you get can a good feel for someone by their "voice" from an on-line profile and, with luck, over the phone. I met someone on-line earlier this year I just got engaged to....

      --
      You only use 2% of your DNA
  64. Not true. by nortcele · · Score: 1
    My brother-in-law ending up marrying a very cute girl. He met her and started chasing AFTER she was already engaged to someone else. Now granted he wasn't a computer geek.

    This isn't the norm, but I've seen it more than once. Men really can marry above their level if they give it a little effort. In fact, now that I think about it, every Slashdotter married... had to marry above their level (self included).

    1. Re:Not true. by DogDude · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This isn't the norm, but I've seen it more than once. Men really can marry above their level if they give it a little effort. In fact, now that I think about it, every Slashdotter married... had to marry above their level (self included).

      Oh, absolutely. I agree 100%. I'm definitely nothing to look at, and I'm routinely amazed by the women that I get just because I *try*. Most guys just see a good lookin' chick, and assume they don't have a chance, but women don't think the same way. Many women could care less what the guy looks like (to a certain point).

      --
      I don't respond to AC's.
    2. Re:Not true. by Stween · · Score: 1

      There's definitely something to be said for a level of confidence, subtle arrogance, and a touch of perseverence (they don't want you to give up, they want you to tag along. It's a reassurance to them that you really want /them/, and not just their body. Of course, slashdotters have trouble between 'tagging along for a bit' and 'stalking'). Honesty's a goodie too.

      Of course, being a bastard with a lot of money and a huge knob probably works just as well.

    3. Re:Not true. by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I'm definitely nothing to look at, and I'm routinely amazed by the women that I get just because I *try*.

      Fellow geek guys, gather round. Let me tell you a vital secret:

      Confidence. Is. Sexy.

      Just like anything else, you have to work at it. Don't try to pick up the next "hot chick" you see, but do smile and nod, say "hello" as you pass by. Try that for a while, then move on to striking up a conversation with no intention of making a "pick-up". Practice this diligently and some day you'll be surprised as a beautiful woman is suddenly trying to pick you up.

      I'm almost 35, certainly not better looking now than I was at say 22 and dateless. I'm certainly not rich (especially since I started downshifting and only work part-time now). But right now I'm almost getting more dates than I have time for. It's all attitude - by which I don't mean being an asshole, as some guys think is the ticket; just a quiet self-assurance goes a long way.

      (Yes, I'm mid-thirties and still single, so if you want relationship advice go see someone else. I'm just talking about getting in the door here.)

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
    4. Re:Not true. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please full how-to including how to deal with sweat, shaking fingers, tied tonguage and rejection. :-D

    5. Re:Not true. by bigenchilada · · Score: 1

      practice, practice, practice. Most baseball bonus babies bat at .333. Take the inverse and they whiff 2/3 of the pitches.

      If you only make 1/3 of the people you make a pitch to, I'd say you would be doing just fine....

      Make enough pitches and the tied tongue gets under control, the sweat becomes manageable and the shaking fingers become less shaky.

      the rejection doesn't go away. But given enough times at bat, I'll hit .333. So think of getting enough rejections to get closer to the home run, to finally mix metaphors waaaay too much.

    6. Re:Not true. by SenseiLeNoir · · Score: 1

      I am a bastard with money, and a Merc....

      Didnt always have that though, was once poor, and drove an Escort...

      DId i ever have problems chatting up the girls? no

      Did the car/money help? not really

      the key is attitude, personality, and a healthy dose of honesty (if you are looking for a long term). That was what got me my wife, a gorgeous sexy woman, who knows what a Wife should be like (ie not a bitch)

      --
      Have a nice day!
    7. Re:Not true. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I'm just talking about getting in the door here.)"

      Is THAT what the kids are calling it these days?

    8. Re:Not true. by mandalayx · · Score: 1

      so the biggest part of success is the ability to overcome obstacles and setbacks.

      whew, wish I learned that in school.

  65. How to write poorly, brought to you by Slashdot. by raehl · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Chapter 7 is called "Pick a Sex, Any Sex" and is a tantalizing hint of what the mathematics of evolution is all about. In particular this chapter includes a nice discussion of how sex itself can evolve. (It seems paradoxical that the question of how sex itself can evolve is not yet resolved. After all, in a naive "selfish gene" approach to evolution, it would seem seem that asexual methods of reproduction win hands down. But, as usual, the issues are more complex then naive models would predict. For example, who would have thought that parasites might be the reason sex arose?

    What we have here is a pontificator, a purveyor of much BS, a master in the art of using many words to say nothing.

    a tantalizing hint of what the mathematics of evolution is all about.

    A tantalizing hint? Seems like a pretty crappy chapter if all it has to offer is a hint, doesn't it? Why not just tell us? Is it because the chapter has no idea? Is it because this whole sentence doesn't mean anything at all, and you're just saying there's a tantalizing hint because you have no clue what the chapter is about and we can't prove there's no hint in there? Even if there is a hint, what if the hint is TOTALLY BORING?

    In particular this chapter includes a nice discussion of how sex itself can evolve. (It seems paradoxical that the question of how sex itself can evolve is not yet resolved.

    There's no paradox here - having a discussion about something that may not yet be resolved is, well, normal. Seems the author just wanted to use the word "paradoxical".

    After all, in a naive "selfish gene" approach to evolution, it would seem seem [sic] that asexual methods of reproduction win hands down.

    What do you mean, "it would seem"? Does it, or doesn't it? Or is the author just covering his butt because he no idea whether it does or doesn't? And why is there an "After all" in there when this has absolutely NOTHING to do with the sentence before this one?

    But, as usual, the issues are more complex then naive models would predict.

    Maybe because that's the DEFINITION of naive? And what issues? The author hasn't even told us what issues he's talking about! I also think this summary would have been improved if the author had mentioned that the sky was blue and the earth is down. Of course, the author probably would have said something like "And as everyone knows, the sky is not royal blue, but paradoxically, more of a turquoise, and as usual, one would find the earth, unsurprisingly, located in a direction not above them, clearly showing that the issues are unresolved."

    For example, who would have thought that parasites might be the reason sex arose?

    An insectophiliac? What is this an example of anyway, other than how the author may have bored their professor into passing their thesis without reading past the first page?

    If you've got nothing to say, don't just spew crap. It hurts my brain.

  66. people are not mathematical equations by dh003i · · Score: 2, Informative

    There are many problems with mathematical modeling of human behaviour. Firstly, economic phenomena (and we can broadly characterize all phenomena as such) are not infinitesimal. They are discrete. Thus, various operations of calculus are completely invalid, as the reality of human action is not continuous, but discrete.

    Secondly, human beings can choose. The reality of game theory is that it is a bunch of humbug which is often wrong, and when it's right, doesn't do any better than common sense would. In real-life situations, the only people who behave as game-theorists predict are actual game-theoreticians.

    I suggest this article on John Nash and Game Theory. I also suggest this article by Prof. Murphy, and this excellent chapter on game theory by Ludwig von Mises.

    1. Re:people are not mathematical equations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      There are many problems with mathematical modeling of human behaviour. Firstly, economic phenomena (and we can broadly characterize all phenomena as such) are not infinitesimal. They are discrete. Thus, various operations of calculus are completely invalid, as the reality of human action is not continuous, but discrete.
      I don't think this makes any sense. What are you talking about?
    2. Re:people are not mathematical equations by dubl-u · · Score: 1

      people are not mathematical equations [...] operations of calculus are completely invalid

      Say, did you read the same article that I read? The one that quoted Einstein as saying "As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality." It seems like you're overstating a point that the author already completely agrees with.

      reality of game theory is that it is a bunch of humbug [...] article on John Nash and Game Theory

      So this guy from Shenandoah University (3000 students, "the 'yes you can' university") is telling us that the Nobel Prize was given out for a bunch of humbug? Well heck, that's good enough for me.

      Sure, Nash's work didn't mean that they just called it done and shut down the Economics department, but game theory was a big step forward not only in economics but also in evolutionary biology, especially in understanding the evolution of social behavior. Simple games don't completely model human behavior, but if you're trying to understand reciprocal altruism in parrots, it works a treat.

      Secondly, human beings can choose.

      This, unless you're a raging ghost-in-the-machine dualist, doesn't mean anything about the analyzability of human behavior. The fact that people can and do choose doesn't mean that we can't, through science and mathematical modelling, improve our understanding of how they choose.

      And if you are a raging ghost-in-the-machine dualist, you're still pretty much screwed; read Elbow Room: The Varieties of Free Will Worth Wanting for details.

    3. Re:people are not mathematical equations by randomencounter · · Score: 1

      You err, in that you mistake the descriptive for the prescriptive. Mathematics does not declare or decide human actions, but those same actions are as describable in the mathematical language as in any other, and the different approach can often result in insights not available to those limited by a single descriptive paradigm. Not that I really expect you to understand this today, but enlightenment does not always involve pain.

      --
      Forget diamonds, copyright is forever.
    4. Re:people are not mathematical equations by dh003i · · Score: 1

      The Nobel prize is awarded by a bunch of socialists, so who cares what they say? They also gave the Nobel Prize to Friedric von Hayek in 1973 (a student of Ludwig von Mises) for his work on the business cycle, which was essentially an extension of Ludwig von Mises' work on the business cycle ("coincidentally", they gave it to him right after Mises died). Hayek would be in complete agreement with the authors I cited, and Mises, on the matter of the poorness of game theory. In fact, you can refer to his Nobel Prize acceptance speech, The Pretense of Knowledge.

      Summarily, citing the fact that one person's a Nobel prize winner and someone arguing against him isn't is meaningless, and is a non-argument. You haven't in any way refuted the arguments presented. You were also selective in the author you singled out for ridicule. Ludwig von Mises -- most certainly the greatest economist of the last century -- also made the same point. For background on Mises, he developed the Austrian business cycle theory, which allowed him to predict the Great Depression before anyone else had. He was also one of the only economists arguing against communism as worthless rubbish before the USSR failed.

      I'm not interested in the behaviour of parrots, or in any of the other absurd unrealistic assumptions of game-theory and of many modern economists.

    5. Re:people are not mathematical equations by dh003i · · Score: 1

      You can draw a line through any set of points and call it a trend-line. That doesn't mean that the straight line is particularly appropriate.

      The real issue here is one over the two kinds of abstraction: precisive and non-precisive. Mainstream economists use precive abstraction, and thus specify the absence of things that actually exist. This is wrong (unless we are doing art or something like such). The meaningful abstraction is non-precisive, which, rather than specifying the absence of something, simply does not specify it. Quoting from Prof. Long's Realism and Abstraction in Economics: Aristotle and Mises versus Friedman:

      precisive abstraction is one in which certain actual characteristics are specified as absent, while a non-precisive abstraction is one in which certain actual characteristics are absent from specification.

      For an example, consider the following abstractions. (1) Precisive. Inflation, an increase in the monetary base, will cause prices to be higher. (2) Non-precisive. Inflation, an increase in the monetary base, will cause prices to be higher, ceteris paribus. The second statement is true, while the first is not. The second statement is saying that inflation will cause prices to be higher than they otherwise would be, or that prices will be higher (if all else is equal). It thus does not ignore the reality that all else will not be equal. The first statement ignores that reality.

      It is the difference between a physicist not accounting for friction in his calculations and specifying that friction does not exist.

    6. Re:people are not mathematical equations by dh003i · · Score: 1

      all mathematical models of human behaviour assume continuity. Yet, social phenomena are complex and are not continuous. Human beings do not consider things in infinitesimally small steps, nor are all transactions even continuous (1TV, 2TVs, 3TVs, etc).

    7. Re:people are not mathematical equations by dubl-u · · Score: 1

      The Nobel prize is awarded by a bunch of socialists, so who cares what they say?

      You realize this makes you look like a loon, right? Because whatever non-socialist box you put yourself in (objectivist? ultra-capitalist?) is equally vulnerable to the sweeping dismissal. That's how the golden rule works.

      You haven't in any way refuted the arguments presented.

      I read the first article, and I didn't notice any arguments worthy of refutation, other than the one that game theory doesn't explain everything, which I did indeed refute by saying that it is an advance, and so it just needs to explain more things than previous theories, not all things ever.

      I'm not interested in the behaviour of parrots,

      Then fine, you can stop commenting on this article about the mathematics of evolutionary biology. But game theory is a big help in understanding the evolution of social behavior in non-humans, parrots included.

      It would be strange indeed if it, after helping with the rest of the animal kingdom, provided no insights into human social behavior. But if you feel like you can construct an alternative economics without using it, more power to you. Let us know when you win the Nobel Prize, 'kay?

    8. Re:people are not mathematical equations by randomencounter · · Score: 1
      It is the difference between a physicist not accounting for friction in his calculations and specifying that friction does not exist.
      Exactly. And as near as I can tell the Austrian school doesn't get as far as acknowledging the existence or ability to account for friction.

      Math can account for "non-precisive" descriptions. There are entire branches of mathematics that deal with fuzzy calculations, discrete calculations over ranges, and miscellaneous other factors that make describing a functioning economy practical (if not easy).

      It is the Austrian School's intellectual laziness in ignoring these tools that makes the lot look less than credible.

      Your Example 2 in (crude) mathematical terms:
      So M is the amount of money in circulation, E is the productivity of the economy. If Delta M (change in amount of money) > Delta E (change in size of economy) then prices will tend to increase. This is regardless of the direction of Delta M and Delta E, only the relationship between them is important.

      I can do better, but the limits of the interface prevent truly expressive maths.

      Modeling the economy is impossible my eye. Get a real economic theory.

      --
      Forget diamonds, copyright is forever.
    9. Re:people are not mathematical equations by dh003i · · Score: 1

      nice job of selectively picking out only the things that help your point. The big difference between human beings and animals is that we are economic creatures, and can choose. We have societies, moralities, laws, cultures, histories, etc. I'm not denying that John Nash was brilliant: I'm just saying that game theory is almost useless for an understanding of human action. As I said, Friedrick von Hayek did win a Nobel Prize -- something you conveniently ignored -- and agrees with his mentor, Ludwig von Mises on the subject (whom the Nobel committee would have had no choice to give a Nobel, had he been alive when Hayek received his).

      The school of Austrian economics accurately praxeology without using any of the absurdly unrealistic assumptions that game theory uses. (for a brief overview, see What is Austrian Economics? ).

      By the way, pre-empting an argument is not refuting it, but is rather agreeing with it.

    10. Re:people are not mathematical equations by dh003i · · Score: 1

      Except, mainstream economists mostly don't use those methods. For a perfect example of some of the absurd assumptions (precisive abstraction), see "perfect competition". And even if they did, it still wouldn't redeem them. Economic phenomena are not continuous. Actors can choose. Preferences can and do change, making indifference curves humbug.

      Your mathematical description of the effects of inflation may be true, but so what? It aids in nothing. There are no constant mathematical relationships in human action. Your little mathematical description only expresses in mathematical terms what I said in words. It, however, falls far short of the lofty and unrealistic ambitions of mainstream economists, which is to predict how much prices will rise given a certain amount of inflation. The problem is that because circumstances can and do change -- and more problematic for these "measurers" that people can change their preferences, time-preferences, and time-preference schedules -- while increasing the monetary base by X% may have resulted in Y% price-increase in the past, it isn't sure to do so in the future, even if all measureable things are the same.

      To clear up your confusion, I suggest Logical Catallactics Versus Mathematical Catallactics by Ludwig von Mises. A lesser critique of this idiocy can be found in Hayek's The Pretense of Knowledge

    11. Re:people are not mathematical equations by randomencounter · · Score: 1
      I have read the Austrian school literature, up to the point where I could not swallow the egomaniacal dismissal of scientific rigor anymore.
      The Austrian school declares that mathematical analysys of economic systems is an impossible task so why even bother trying? This is so obviously false that I cannot take any of the Austrian arguments seriously.

      Physics is full of examples where the transition from "thought experiments" (which are closely analogous to the Austrian method) to rigorous analysis using heavy maths followed by experimentation and/or observation gave unpredicted results.

      In short, I say that whatever the shortcomings of mainstream economic theory (and there are indeed many), the Austrian school is not the answer to those shortcomings.
      Indeed, it is only a question, from which the answer might arise given suitable rigor.

      --
      Forget diamonds, copyright is forever.
    12. Re:people are not mathematical equations by dh003i · · Score: 1

      Scientific rigor is not dismissed. Austrians merely note that there is a difference between social science and natural science, and that the methods of the natural sciences are not appropriate to social sciences.

      Your attempt to use the methods of the natural sciences in economics only shows you ignorance of natural sciences. The crap that goes for "work" in mainstream economics could never be published in a journal of natural sciences; that is, any "experiments" in the natural sciences as poor and void of control would be flatly rejected. You cannot do experiments in the social sciences in the same sense that you can in the natural sciences.

      What economists hope for is a "natural experiment". The closest thing that there has ever been to this is the split of West and East Germany after the war. Eastern Germany -- heavily socialized -- floundered in poverty. Western Germany -- more or less free-market, under the "economic miracle" of Ernhardt, taking some of the advice of Ruptke -- prospered. Yet, even in this, we cannot draw any conclusions, but must interpret. The socialists can always say there were some differences between the East and West, and that if things had only been different in the East, socialism would have succeeded.

      It is not appropriate to compare physical phenomena to economic and social phenomena, because social phenomena are complex events. There can be no experiments in the social sciences. It is flatly incorrect to use calculus for economics, due to the unrealisic assumption of continuity. Furthermore, there are no fixed relations in the social sciences. People can and do change their preferences; the implication of this is that any numerical relations are only historical and transient. Simply because X% of monetary expansion (inflation) resulted in Y% of price increase in consumer goods does not mean that it will do so again in the future.

      Econometrics is thus nothing more than childish play. Its only use is in historical study. We certainly cannot learn anything regarding economics from this kind of mathematical play (though we can learn history). Correct economic theory can only be learned through rigorous logical application -- something most mainstream economists are very poor at -- starting from a priori truths (e.g., axiom that man acts, postulate that there's a variety of resources, etc).

      The difference between the social sciences and the natural sciences is something you -- and mainstream economists -- have completely failed to grasp. In praxeology, we are in the fortunate positions of knowing the ultimate foundations. We can thus proceed in a chain of logical reasoning. However, because social phenomena are complex, no experiments can be done (and even if they could be done, it would be completely unethical to do them, for reasons that I hope are obvious even to mainstream economists). In natural sciences, we do not know the ultimate foundations. However, we are in the fortunate position of being able to do experiments.

    13. Re:people are not mathematical equations by dubl-u · · Score: 1

      The big difference between human beings and animals is that we are economic creatures, and can choose. We have societies, moralities, laws, cultures, histories, etc.

      Humans are not as unique in this regard as humans like to think. Animals display, albeit in a form much less developed than ours, society, morality, and culture. What they mainly lack is the language skills, so formal laws and recorded histories are beyond them. For more information, a couple of good popular introductions are Chimpanzee Politics and Good Natured, both by De Waal.

      By the way, pre-empting an argument is not refuting it, but is rather agreeing with it.

      In a formal debate, perhaps. But you haven't convinced me to have a formal debate about the fundamental nature of economics and the utility of game theory therein.

      I know that game theory to me has been very helpful in understanding the evolution of social behavior. I also know smart people who've studied a lot of economics and find it useful there, too. So your vehement and total rejection of game theory already leads me to put you in the "probable loon" category; reasonable people can generally acnowledge the strengths of things they don't like, even if they feel the weaknesses predominate. And further items in your posts and the linked articles strengthen that impression.

      As to whether the version of economics without game theory will eventually win out over the one with game theory, honestly, I don't really care enough to figure that out now. Given the utility of game theory, and in particular the iterated prisoner's dilemma, in understanding animal social behavior, I'd be surprised if economics had no need of that kind of modelling. Our social capacity, after all, started with animals and evolved the same way theirs did.

      But really, it's a sunny day, and if I want to argue with idealogues, I can go do it at an outdoor cafe table with people I know and like, rather than random idealogues on Slashdot. So good luck on your quest, and drop us a note when the rest of the economists have conceded.

    14. Re:people are not mathematical equations by randomencounter · · Score: 1
      To paraphrase your post: "You cannot describe people with math because people have freewill and math cannot describe freewill, but we can use our special method to describe people that cannot be translated or verified by observation".

      If you use your freewill to jump off a building, I can use physics and math to describe what will happen to you in fine, though not infinitesimally fine, detail.

      If you, by the same token, use your freewill to engage in economic transactions, I can use many of the same mathematical techniques to describe the path your money takes through the economy.

      "It is too complex" is a cop out of the first order, especially when a modern desktop computer has enough capability to directly model an economy consisting of tens of thousands of individuals at the single transaction level, accurate to the mill.

      "You can't conduct experiments" is another copout. Astronomy gets by just fine without being able to blow stars up in the lab. Geology got by just fine without being able to make rocks in the lab. Observation is the key, and there is enough history, past and present, to observe and test one's pet theories against.

      All you need is discipline and rigor.

      Besides, money is math in a very real and legally binding sense. If you don't believe that, I pity your poor accountant (or perhaps I envy them).

      --
      Forget diamonds, copyright is forever.
    15. Re:people are not mathematical equations by dh003i · · Score: 1

      Whether or not many people accept something is quite frankly not my concern. A lot of people accepted alchemy, and that the world was flat. So what? Many who were likely very brilliant argued about how many angels could fit on the head of a needle. Hardly means that's useful.

      I don't deny that game theory has its uses in studying evolution. Though, as someone who's studied selfish elements in genetics, I'd argue that other methods are much more useful. Game theory, however, has very little actual use in real-life economics. Sorry, but people simply do not act as game theorists think they do. In fact, game theorists spend most of their time criticizing people for "not being rational". But that just shows that they haven't understood human action.

      Life is not a game. People can break out of rules. Economic interactions are certainly not a game, either.

      The worthlessness of game theory and other mainstream economics in real life can be demonstrated by looking to successful investors who are economists. Oh, wait, there's hardly none. If econometricians really could do what they think they can, they'd be making fortunes investing. They aren't. In fact, an investing group founded with several Nobel Prize winning economists went belly-up.

      The utility of understanding Austrian economics can be seen by realizing that (while most Austrians are permi-bears), the few people who did actually expect the various busts that have happened have been Austrian. See Mark Faber and Jim Puplava recently. Mises in the 20s.

    16. Re:people are not mathematical equations by dh003i · · Score: 1

      Amazing. You have yet again missed the point, or failed to understand it.

      The ability to make analogies does not make your case. People are not stars, black holes, or quasars. Astromonists and astro-physicists have gotten along. However, they're not studying human beings with the ability to choose. They're not dealing with the emergent properties of highly intelligent life. They're dealing with physical forces.

      All you've done is stated a bunch of humbug, and presented it as fact. From the fact that you can pretty accurately predict what happens to me after I fall from a building (assuming I'm unconscious), it does not follow that you can accurately predict future economic phenomena using mathematical modeling.

      The modern desktop computer does not have enough power to predict future economic phenomena accurately. Not even a supercomputer does. A quantum computer wouldn't be able to do it. No matter how much power you throw at the problem, you can't accurately predict future events. The reason is simple: human choice. You can't in any way predict my future changes in value-scales (preferences).

      Simply because a computer can model transactions doesn't mean such is useful for real life, or has any predictive power. Modelling transactions is not the same thing as modeling human action. When you have a computer program that can respond exactly as I do in any given situation, then maybe you can model economic phenomena accurately (aside from the enormous complexity of adding in 6 billion more complete and unique AI agents).

      However, modeling is not the same thing as predicting. Is your model -- with 6 billion AI units -- also going to account for various natural events that change the way people act? Ultimately, you almost need a model of everything.

      Another simple logical problem -- which you haven't even bothered to comprehend -- is that you can't know what you are going to know in the future before you know it. If you knew with perfect knowledge what would happen, that would be useless, because you would be unable to change it. But even dismissing "perfect knowledge", if you could somewhat accurately predict future economic events with mathematical models, your "prophecy" would be self-negating. The actions you and others would take to adjust for what you perceive to be the future would alter it.

      You have completely and totally failed to comprehend the complexity (and difficulty) of the situation. You've also failed to understand the fundamental differences between social and natural sciences (in praxeology, we know the ultimate foundations; we don't in physics, chemistry, biology, etc). I'd again suggest Mises' essay on Social Science and Natural Science, as well as Hayek's Nobel acceptance speech, The Pretence of Knowledge (which is a lesser critique).

    17. Re:people are not mathematical equations by randomencounter · · Score: 1
      If it is too complicated for mathematics, which can model the very movements of the stars in the heavens and allows us to directly manipulate the very atoms of creation, what is the power of PRAXEOLOGY that mere mathematics cannot aspire to?

      I have read Herr Mises primary essay, in its entirety. I was curious, having already observed the weakness of modern economic theory. It was entertaining for a bit, but it is not science. "Common sense" as an economic theory only works if you are willing to acknowledge that what may be "common sense" to you is damnfoolishness to someone with different experiences.

      Frankly, my experience of the world has shown me that there are holes in his theory that you can drive an aircraft carrier through without dampening them by its wake. The existence and utility of aircraft carriers being only one of those holes.

      "The Pretence of Knowledge" indeed. You pretend to knowledge and attempt to dissuade others from seeking true knowledge, because if they find it then you have been wrong.

      Economics is the study of money, not people. Money follows rules, and people follow money. They will not change their behaviours significantly because of some new economic theory on the block. They are too busy answering to the Golden Rule: He who has the gold, makes the rules. That is common sense, and it is the truth that Herr Mises and his followers since have chosen to ignore to their discredit.

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    18. Re:people are not mathematical equations by dh003i · · Score: 1
      Do you even know the meaning of the words your using? Praxeology is the study of human action. It thus encompasses -- but is not limited -- to economics, which is a specific subdivisioin of praxeology. Your response illustrates a common fallacy among those dealing with economics, the creation of homo economus.

      Prof. Mises did not have a "primary essay". He had a primary treatise on praxeology, simply titled Human Action. He also had treatises before Human Action, such as The Theory of Money and Credit. That you dismiss it as merely a common sense approach shows that you are ignorant. It is based on a set of a priori true axioms. On this, see In Defense of Extreme Apriorism. You should know that those who are the foremost among Austrians are not people who are ignorant of mathematics. Mises, Rothbard, and Hayek had very strong backgrounds in mathematics. Rothbard graduated college at 16, had a BA in mathematics at 19, and a masters in economics at 20. pHD at 30. Mises was also well-versed in mathematics (and his brother Richard Mises, was a mathematician, and member of the Vienna Circle). With a strong background and understanding of econometrics, these men rightly rejected it as nonsense. All current professors in Austrian economics (especially Prof. Walter Block, who's debated with Bryan Caplan on the issue) are well versed in econometrics, and reject it as humbug. This is one reason why I'm not proceeding with a degree in economics: econometrics is a waste of time.

      "The Pretence of Knowledge" indeed. You pretend to knowledge and attempt to dissuade others from seeking true knowledge, because if they find it then you have been wrong.

      More errors on your part. I believe you mean "pretend to have knowledge". It is a matter of fact that I have a degree of correct knowledge on economics and praxeology. I do not say this with arrogance, any more than I'd consider stating with absolute certainty that 2+2=4. Mainstream economists make unrealistic assumptions and use invalid methodologies. One of my favorite nonsenses is "granger-causality", which is nothing more than a sophisticated mathematical version of the post hoc ergo propter hoc principle (unbeknownst to mainstream economists, this is actually a fallacy).

      I can point to the axiomatic a priori basis of praxeology. I can also point to the fact that Austrians are the only ones with a satisfactory explanation of the business cycle, an the only ones who have a good long-term track record with depressions.

      Your de novo redefinition of the Golden Rule is typical socialist crap. As briefly mentioned above, focusing on money and nothing else leads to all kinds of nonsense. It is typical of mainstream economists to call people "irrational" for not pursuing a money-maximizing strategy. Yet, this is the fallacy of homo economus. The correct way to go about studying economics is to start from the basics of human action, not making unrealistic assumptions, and proceed from there. The proper language is economics is English, not mathematics.

      The heart of the issue is that mainstream economists have ignored causaility, and are concerned almost exclusively with correlation. Were they are concerned with causality, they are fallicious (see "granger-causality"). Quoting from Roger Garrison:
      While mathematical economists may not deny that the ultimate cause is to be found in the actions of market participants, they proceed untroubled by the fact that mathematics is inherently silent on the issue of cause and effect. This disadvantage of the mathematical method was Mises's concern [1966, p. 350] when he remarked that [i]ts syllogisms are not only sterile; they divert the mind from the study of the real problems and distort the relationships between the various phenomena.
      Garrison also addresses the problems of representing causaility mathematically.
    19. Re:people are not mathematical equations by randomencounter · · Score: 1
      As great as you claim my ignorance of your particular branch os "social science" is, you betray an even greater ignorance of the science of mathematics, even while using some of its language.

      As well, you betray an ignorance of history. Austrian theory may "explain" the business cycle, but it does not explain, in fact it brushes off cleanly, 3000 years of historical record to do so.

      In the physical sciences a theory that explains one thing while contradicting observed facts is generally thrown out as in error.
      I guess those soft social scientists are more forgiving.

      Throwing progressively more obscure and obfuscated language at me is unconvincing. It is a blatant "appeal to authority" falsity and I will not play that game with you. I haven't the time to read 500 pages of nonsense to argue with you on your ground. I have already read ~100 pages of it and I was not convinced then. If you wish to convince me that you are correct use plain English instead of jargon, and explain to me why your precious perfect theory implicitly supports slavery as a good thing.

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    20. Re:people are not mathematical equations by dh003i · · Score: 1

      As illustrated by Garrison, mathematical economics cannot properly address causaility; nor can we learn causality from it, despite the fallicious thinking of some sophisticated econometricists.

      History does not tell us about economic theory. History is merely a series of facts. We interpret history through economic theory. If history explained economics, the enormous gap between Marxist class analysis and Austrian class analysis could not exist.

      The Austrian theory of the business cycle (ATBC) is the only theory which adequately explains modern business cycles (in ancient times, the cause for depression was often obvious: a despot took all of the money). Nor is the ATBC inconsistent with history. Sorry, but you haven't in any way shown this. Of course, you are right -- it doesn't explain 3000 years of history. It explains one thing: the business cycle.

      Rather, the ATBC is an interpretation of history. No theory of economics can be proven or disproven by history. (Unless it is so crudely stated as to say something like, "inflation always causes the CPI to increase", in which case we can see that during the 20s boom, consumer prices did not rise; rather, the effects of inflation manifested in the stock market). And even according to econometrics, there is nothing that disproves the ABTC.

      You have completely failed to show how the ATBC is somehow inconsistent with history. This is just an assertion on your part. I cannot force you to educate yourself.

    21. Re:people are not mathematical equations by randomencounter · · Score: 1
      Truth, I have been asserting a few things without presenting evidence. However, I have educated myself on a great many things, and from my studies of history (both past and present) the Marxists are full of it too. Any theory that contains "and then people will get along OK" as an implicit assumption is likely to have other errors, as history shows that people tend to be contentious opportunists.

      Note that not everything that I encountered in examining Austrian School economics was bad. It was just couched in such dense jargon that a complete analysis of it would be the work of a graduate degree of itself.

      So I concluded my analysis based on the assetions of those who have made such study, by reading numerous papers posted through the mises.org site as well as following leads into the core papers that were available in translated form.

      What I discovered is that many of these assertions contradicted events and patterns that I have personally witnessed, and the presented analysis was murky at best, straying quickly into deep jargon for concepts that are expressible in standard college level english. As well as presenting and defending assumptions that would lead to extreme class stratification and slavery as common practice all the while claiming that there was some magical characteristic of anarcho-capitalist society that would prevent people from exploiting each other in such a way.

      This is the historical precedent which I see as ignored.
      Now, it may be that the mises.org internet community just attracts people who present such dubious social theories as fact, but from following the papers deeper, I concluded that such theories are indeed supported by the core works.
      So, in the fine tradition of "know the teacher by their students", I have come to the conclusion that there is a deep structural flaw in the theory. And since it would take several years to internalize enough of the jargon to be accepted as "knowledgable" and attempt to find and fix the particular flaw, I have given the lot up as a bad job for someone else.

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    22. Re:people are not mathematical equations by dh003i · · Score: 1

      You are -- quite understandably -- confusing some things which, while related, are separate. A list of concepts covered at Mises.org would include:

      History
      Austrian Economics
      Libertarianism

      Within libetarianism, there are three sub-categories:

      Anarcho-Capitalist
      Minarchist
      Constitutionalis t

      Murray Rothbard was an anarcho-capitalist; Mises. however, was minarchist. Sen. Ron Paul is Constitutionalist / minarchist.

      Saying that you think anarcho-capitalism is unrealistic is not an argument against Austrian economics or the ATBC. Austrian economics merely describes the results of various scenarios. It is consequentialist. It is void of morality.

      Libertarianism is a position on what should be law. It is a moral position on law and justice. It holds that it is justifiable to use coercive force against the initiation of aggression, but nothing else. Anarcho-capitalism holds that States necessarily violate that principle, thus are criminal organizations that are undesireable, and should be abolished.

      The practicality of this position does not weigh on the judgement. Capitalism happens to be the most efficient system possible; however, even if it weren't, so what? If socialism were somehow more efficient, that wouldn't justify it. Rothbard acknowledged this point. Mises refused to even consider it. When presented with the question, "What if socialism was more efficient than capitalism?", he simply said, "But it isn't," and that was all that could be gotten.

      Libertarianism is just as irrelevant to the conclusions of Austrian economics as is vica versa. Austrian economics is not a position on what forms of government should exist. It is a factual pursuit of knowledge. Your criticisms against anarcho-capitalism are thus nothing more than the result of poor aggregate thinking, and completely miss the target. There can be non-libertartian Austrian economists (see Greenspan). There can also be non-Austrian libertarians (see Bryan Caplan).

      History is something to be interpretted through economics and politics. It can also inspire the study of both. However, it cannot tell us anything about the truth of either. It must be interpretted. Without our proper interpretation, history would be just a series of different things, without any causal connections.

      Finally, regarding your criticisms on anarcho-capitalism. As someone who's read up on history, you should know that Ancient Ireland and Ancient Iceland were Stateless, the former for almost a 1000 years, the latter for almost 300. The "Wild West" was largely stateless, yet was very peaceful (despite dramatic renditions in the movies). Somalia is essentially anarcho-capitalistic, though experiencing difficulties. I suspect that given time, private solutions to law will arise. Anarcho-capitalists do not assert anything about the quality of human beings, only that for any given distribution of human character, anarcho-capitalism is the best system. Whether all men are evil and stupid or not, having a State doesn't fix the problem -- but only allow the worst to rise to the top.

    23. Re:people are not mathematical equations by randomencounter · · Score: 1
      Sparse monocultural populations will tend to anarcho-capitalism because states are a bother, but it has not proven to be a stable system for the general case. Many small towns in the US tend to run local affairs in such a manner as well, but it is unstable above a certain size town. This is because you don't need a state for the scum to rise. To suppose otherwise is romantic idealism.

      As far as Socialism vs. Capitalism, iff you assume no use of force, and perfect knowledge, then pure capitalism works. As soon as you see a need for intervention in the case of coersion (selective denial of resources) and fraud, then some fetters upon capitalism are necessary and it tends toward socialism. Pure socialism is even worse, though, so don't read too much into that.

      Going up thread a couple, arguments of "complexity" fall upon deaf ears when you talk to people with physics training. Most of physics, all of the physics most people know, is a gross approximation to reality. But it is good enough to get the job done, and easily understood.

      That is what we need from economics, something that is good enough to do the job. Perfection is neither necessary nor desirable in such a case. If you can get close enough with something calculable (and it does boil down to calculations in the end), then that is what you go with. I don't need to know when a particular square inch of ground will be dampened by rain to predict the weather a couple of days in advance, and I don't need to know what brand of cereal you buy to predict that you spend some of your income on food. Fine details get swamped by the law of large numbers, and you can get close enough to the right answer to hit it with a rock.

      In fact, one of the beauties of capitalism over socialism is that it allows the fine details to be ignored at the large scale.

      As far as the uses of history. It isn't perfect, but it is all we have. The only way to know what happens is to watch it happening.

      Predict
      Observe
      Adjust

      Skip either of the last 2 steps and it is just intellectual masturbation (a common phenomenon on /. and approaching OT for the article).

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    24. Re:people are not mathematical equations by dh003i · · Score: 1

      More nonsense. Austrians don't contend that people in the free market have perfect knowledge, nor that there are no crooks. These kinds of idiotic assumptions are the domain of neoclassicals and game theorists. Austrians don't make such ridiculous and unrealistic assumptions. People do fine in the free market without "perfect knowledge"; in fact, it is socialism that is hindered by the lack of knowledge. The free market also has ways of dealing with fraud, such as consumer agencies and protection agencies.

      The reality is that the past 100 years would have been much better without any states at all: indeed, any 100 year period would be, but particularly this one. Firstly, there's the fact that States have killed more of their own people in the past 100 years than have been killed by wars. Then, there's wars, which have also killed millions.

      The reality of capitalism is that individuals help themselves by providing services others desire. It's a win-win situation. The reality of socialism -- and mixed interventionist economies, like ours -- is that people help themselves by harming others: the war of all against all (e.g., special interest groups).

      You continually appeal to physics, noting that they use approximations. While this may be true, it proves nothing. Physics is not economics. Simply throwing out analogies doesn't make your point. Particles don't make decisions. Human beings do. And if prediction is so all-important, mainstream economists (Keynesians, neoclassicals, game-theorists, etc) are all completely worthless and useless. They have a terrible track-record, and it isn't going to get any better. They're among the foremost individuals who start talking about a "new economy". In the 70s, when gold was severed from the dollar, mainstream economists predicted that the price of gold would fall to its non-monetary value (that of jewelery, around $6-$8 and ounce); the reality is that gold-prices skyrocketed. By their own creed -- "science is prediction" -- they are imbeciles.

      Mainstream economists are wholy and completely deficient. They are confused about causality vs. correlation. Statistical methods cannot show causation. And causation is what you really need to be able to make real predictions. They're forever stuck in the ridiculous assumptions of perfect competition and equilibrium (an absurd thing, for in "equilibrium", the only place where their equations are applicable, there is no action; indeed, that's precisely why they're calculus is applicable). Economic phenomena are not subject to calculus because differentiation requires continuity, and economic phenomena are not continuous (or even close): (a) Many goods are discontinuous; (b) People do not consider things in infinitesimally small units.

      You may be able to predict that a population will spend some portion of its income on food. So what? You hardly need econometrics for that? When econometricists try to go further, they fall on their face, precisely because there are no fixed constants. People can change their preferences for how much they spend on food, or the quality of food they buy. People can change their preferences for the type of foods they buy. What you're doing is trying to is blur out the real details by aggregation. In doing this, you're ignoring reality, and making simplifications just so that you can use your models.

      You attempt to justify this by pointing to physics, noting that they don't account for all details, yet can make very accurate predictions. This is because, for one thing, their systems are not as complex. They aren't dealing with conscious, decision-making entities. The result is that they can make predictions with 99.9...% accuracy. The accuracy of econometricists predictions, however, is non-existant. This is because of all of the riduclous unrealistic assumptions, the confusion of causality and correlation, and the fact that if they ever could predict, they'd develop a reputation for doing so, and their predictions would become self-nullifying.

    25. Re:people are not mathematical equations by randomencounter · · Score: 1
      Yet you assert that your system is better in some way. When you get to the quantum level the basis is not simple, nor are the systems that come out of it. You allege simplicity of physical systems which is simply not the case, and I assert that simplifying assumptions are as relevant (and necessary) to economics as they are to physics.

      Whether what you do can be called a science at all really boils down to one thing:
      Do you make predictions?

      If yes, can they be verified?

      If the answer to either of these questions is no, you are not practicing science of any form.

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    26. Re:people are not mathematical equations by dh003i · · Score: 1
      I'm sorry, but you're wrong. Science is not prediction. Just because some wank-off named Popper thinks that science is only that which can be tested and verified doesn't make it true. Certainly, all natural sciences are in that paradigm. However, social sciences cannot be in that paradigm.

      While prediction is important and useful, it is not the only important factor in science. You have completely left out something far more important: understanding. The core of science is in seeking understanding. It is possible to make predictions without having understanding. Newtonian physics allows us to make very accurate predictions about falling bodies, without having any understanding of gravity. Long says, "As an empiricist, Friedman takes a theory to explain a phenomenon if it enables us to predict the phenomenon's occurrence; whereas for Austrians, to explain economic phenomena is, in Ludwig Lachmann's phrase, 'to make the world around us intelligible in terms of human action and the pursuit of plans.'":

      The important question for us is: in what circumstances could one say that one had understood this sort of behaviour? ... Weber often speaks as if the ultimate test were our ability to formulate statistical laws which would enable us to predict with fair accuracy what people would be likely to do in given circumstances....[But] we might well be able to make predictions of great accuracy in this way and still not be able to claim any real understanding of what those people were doing. The difference is precisely analogous to that between being able to formulate statistical laws about the likely occurrences of words in a language and being able to understand what was being said by someone who spoke the language. ...

      We do not need to "test" economic theory. We deduce it from a logical chain of reasoning, starting from self-evident axiomatic truths and self-evidently true empirical postulates: (1) Man acts, and to deny such would be self-contradictory; (2) Variety of resources, human and natural; (3) Leisure is a consumer good; (3) optional: when analyzing economies of indirect exchange, we assume indirect exchanges are occuring; we aren't "testing" the theory here, but choosing the theory that applies to the reality we want to explain; (4) least important, a simplification for elaborating catallactics: firms aim at maximizing profits; praxeologists always remember that where this postulate does not apply, the theories deduced from it, while correct, do not apply. Furthermore, contrary to your mantra, we cannot test correct economic statements. We cannot "test" the statement that ceteris paribus, inflation causes price increases.

      And, as noted, mainstream economists can't even do prediction very well. They're the one's talking about a "new economy" and how the price of gold would plummet after the dollar was severed from gold. So, by their own standards, they are worthless failures who can be completely rejected and ignored. While physicists make 99% accurate predictions, mainstream economists make incorrect predictions 99% of the time. Sounds like useless and worthless to me.

      The Austrian system is better, because it does not make absurdly unrealistic assumptions, simply for the purpose of model-making. It does not confuse correlation with causation, or commit logical fallacies. It does not allow for absurd conclusions, simply because they can be mathematically derived. It does not assume the unrealistic assumptions of perfect competition and equilibrium. Finally, those who understand Austrian economics have the best track-record as a group when making entrepreneurial judgements on the business cycle.

      If neoclassical, keynesian, and game-theorists really are so good at making predictions, why aren't they rich? There's one well-known example of a mainstream economist who was very successful on the stock-market: John Maynard Keynes. Yet, he did not obtain success using some econometric methods. He follo

    27. Re:people are not mathematical equations by dh003i · · Score: 1

      I'd also note that another brilliant investor -- Phillip Fisher -- criticized the EMT, ever-popular among clueless academics. See Common Stocks and Uncommon Profits And Other Works.

    28. Re:people are not mathematical equations by randomencounter · · Score: 1
      We do not need to "test" economic theory. We deduce it from a logical chain of reasoning, starting from self-evident axiomatic truths and self-evidently true empirical postulates: (1) Man acts, and to deny such would be self-contradictory; (2) Variety of resources, human and natural; (3) Leisure is a consumer good; (3) optional: when analyzing economies of indirect exchange, we assume indirect exchanges are occuring; we aren't "testing" the theory here, but choosing the theory that applies to the reality we want to explain; (4) least important, a simplification for elaborating catallactics: firms aim at maximizing profits; praxeologists always remember that where this postulate does not apply, the theories deduced from it, while correct, do not apply. Furthermore, contrary to your mantra, we cannot test correct economic statements. We cannot "test" the statement that ceteris paribus, inflation causes price increases.
      If you do not check your theories against reality, how do you know that they are correct?

      People KNEW that the earth was the center of the universe. They knew that all celestial bodies moved in perfect circles, and with this knowledge they mapped the heavens and created elaborate (and apparently accurate) measures of the movement of the sky.

      Then someone looked at Jupiter a bit too closely and it all fell apart.

      This is why the physical scientists are so insistent on checking their results against reality. If you can't or don't check against reality your writings are just as valid as any other well thought out work of fiction. You can have perfect internal consistency, you can even use it to map against the outside world and maybe get good results. Frankly, anybody who invests conservatively and has half a brain can do well in the stock market. It doesn't take a superior economic theory, it just takes a willingness to look at direct consequences of your actions and not assume any risk you cannot afford.

      Besides, economic theory has as much to do with playing the stock market as meteorology has to do with skiing. Knowing when the snow will fall and how much really doesn't help you get down the hill. Knowing the business cycle perfectly tells you nothing about whether the particular business you are looking at investing in is well managed or another Enron.

      You confuse and attempt to distract with unrelated minutia, because economies are predictable and can be observed and even experimented with, as the IMF seems bent on doing.

      You assume either that the statements you make are true, or that those of us who aren't professional economists are too dim to see through their falsehood.

      I do not beleive you are correct, and nothing you have said in this discussion has been anything more or less than "appeal to authority" and incitement to appeals to authority, I have read enough of your references to know what is contained therin, and if the master was not able to convince me of the validity of their claims, what hope the student?

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    29. Re:people are not mathematical equations by dh003i · · Score: 1
      You may have skimmed, but you obviously haven't comprehended, if you still don't understand why you cannot "test" economic theories, and why the positivst attempt to do so is misplaced. You are continuing to mistakenly confuse natural and social sciences.

      I do not need to "test" the laws of mathematics. I don't need to "test" the pythagorus theorum. If I went about doing so -- making sure that a^2+b^2=c^2 for all triangles -- mathematicians would consider me an idiot and obtuse. The action axiom is not something that can be, or needs to be tested. If something is testable, it must be falsifiable and verifiable. The action axiom is neither. You cannot falsfiy it -- any attempt to falsify it would in fact verify it, because such an attempt would, in fact, be an action. An a priori truth is something that cannot be denied without self-contradiction in its denial.

      The action axiom (man acts) qualifies as an a priori truth, as any attempt to deny its truth is in fact an action.

      The postulates don't qualify as axiomatic truths -- nevertheless, to say that they are "tested" is a stretch of the imagination. We don't "test" that leisure is a consumer good. It is simply a law of nature. A variety of resources may, however, rise to axiomatic status. Without a variety of resources, man would never act, or perhaps could never even conceivably exist. So, any statement denying a variety of resources is self-contradictory: if there were no variety of resources, you and I could not exist, thus could not act. Thus, denying that there is a variety of resources is no different than denying the existence of man: self-contradictory. On this, see Economic Science and the Austrian Method. Hoppe, Hans-Hermann. Specifically,

      What makes these axioms self-evident? Kant answers, it is not because they are evident in a psychological sense, in which case we would be immediately aware of them. On the contrary, Kant insists, it is usually much more painstaking to discover such axioms than it is to discover some empirical truth such as that the leaves of trees are green. They are self-evident because one cannot deny their truth without self-contradiction; that is, in attempting to deny them one would actually, implicitly, admit their truth. ...

      It has been a common quarrel with Kantianism that this philosophy seemed to imply some sort of idealism. For if, as Kant sees it, true synthetic a priori propositions are propositions about how our mind works and must of necessity work, how can it be explained that such mental categories fit reality? How can it be explained, for instance, that reality conforms to the principle of causality if this principle has to be understood as one to which the operation of our mind must conform? Don't we have to make the absurd idealistic assumption that this is possible only because reality was actually created by the mind? ...
      Mises provides the solution to this challenge. It is true, as Kant says, that true synthetic a priori propositions are grounded in self-evident axioms and that these axioms have to be understood by reflection upon ourselves rather than being in any meaningful sense "observable." Yet we have to go one step further. We must recognize that such necessary truths are not simply categories of our mind, but that our mind is one of acting persons. Our mental categories have to be understood as ultimately grounded in categories of action. And as soon as this is recognized, all idealistic suggestions immediately disappear. Instead, an epistemology claiming the existence of true synthetic a priori propositions becomes a realistic epistemology. Since it is understood as ultimately grounded in categories of action, the gulf between the mental and the real, outside, physical world is bridged. As categories of action, they must be mental things as much as they are characteristics of reality. For it is through actions that the mi

    30. Re:people are not mathematical equations by randomencounter · · Score: 1
      As I mentioned before, your ignorance of mathematics appears to exceed the level of ignorance you accord me on your field.

      Pythagoras's Theorem has indeed been proven, there is an entire branch of mathematics devoted to proofs so old that the proof you chose to belittle as "axiomatic" is standard for college level students as an exercise.

      As I mentioned in my previous post, many things have been considered "self evident" in the past that have since rolled beneath the gunwales of time. One of those is that there is any field of study that describes the real world and cannot be tested.

      If you doubt the ability to run experiments in economics you haven't been paying attention to the IMF or world markets for the past 30 years. They may be unethical, but they have been experiments. In the process, a lot of pretty theories have been disproven and millions have been driven into poverty. I imagine as many other theories have been justified, but as it isn't my primary field I don't subscribe to their journals. It would appear that you don't either.

      And your favorite example of this exchange, inflations relation to rising prices, is utter bunk. Not only can you determine if everything else is equal but thanks to modern accounting and computers, the margin of error of those calculations has shrunk considerably since the 1930's. Not to mention certain examples of "captured economies" where there is a smaller economy that has clearly defined transactions with the world and minute knowledge of the inner workings of said economy is available.

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    31. Re:people are not mathematical equations by dh003i · · Score: 1

      The only ignorant one here is you.

      Pythagoras theorum isn't "proven" in the sense that you're referring to -- empirical observation. And anyone who went about trying to prove it by measuring the sides of every triangle he encountered would be considered an idiot who ahs missed the point.

      I'm well aware of statistical methods. None of them can prove or show causation. They can only show correlation. Granger-causality is nothing more than a sophisticated fallacy. Every reputable statistics textbook specifically says that statisitcs cannot prove causation, but can only correlation. You state that we can determine if "all else is equal". Firstly, all else can never be equal in the absolute sense, since time and place are variables that can never be equal between two comparisons. You clearly do not understand what you are talking about. When statistics professionals account for variables in their regressions, they are not (and cannot) accounting for all variables. Rather, they're accounting for the ones they consider important. Someone else can always disagree with them, so -- contrary to your assertions -- none of their manipulations can be conclusive.

      We can show a clear correlation between an increase in temperature and an increase in the number of ice-cream cones bought. This does not in any way prove causation, one way or another. Without a prior understanding (e.g., that people say that they eat ice-cream because it is hot; and the knowledge of physics to know that our eating ice-cream is not going to make it hot), we cannot determine whether the ice-cream eating causes temperature to rise or whether inreasing temperatures cause more ice-cream eating.

      All that a correlation between to things shows is just that -- that there's a correlation. It also shows that there can be causation one way or another (not necessarily). We can also show a correlation between the number of people wearing thongs and the number of people eating ice-cream cones. We obviously know that neither causes the other, but that they are both "caused" by a third factor: increasing temperatures.

      Your babblings about the IMF are irrelevant. No conclusions can be drawn from the interventions of the IMF alone. Rather, we have to interpret the history of the IMF. Someone who supports a command-control economy can come to very different conclusions from the IMF's actions than someone who supports the free market, and vica-versa.

      You obviously do not understand the scientific method; this is not uncommon among mainstream economists. If an experiment has many variables and no controls, it is a poor and useless experiment. That would be an accurate description of any attempts at manipulation by the IMF. The history of the IMF hasn't really proven or disproven much of anything (except for statements that are solidly contradicted by fact; e.g., "the IMF does not exist").

      The closest historical thing to a "natural experiment" was the split of East and West Germany. Yet, still, "all else was not equal". There is always something that someone can say was different that accounts for the failure of one, and the success of another, as opposed to the reason that we know to be true from correct economic theory. History must be interpretted. Alone, it tells us nothing. Without, for example, an a priori understanding of causality, we could not understand the relatedness of history, and would see it as a series of completely unrelated events. Your example of a "captured economy" still does not make your point. There are always variables that are different. For example, in the East/West Germany example, the socialists can always say, "well, it is something about the population and geography of West Germany; if it had been West Germany that was socialist, socialism would have worked".

      You obvioulsy haven't bothered with what I've noted about self-evident a priori truths (axioms). These are not "self-evident" in the psychological sense. In the psycho

    32. Re:people are not mathematical equations by randomencounter · · Score: 1

      Fine. I'm done.
      You are obviously insane by my standard, and may now have the last word if you so desire.

      --
      Forget diamonds, copyright is forever.
  67. Good-looking? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here is a picture of her. Hey, maybe she has a beautiful mind, but I wouldn't fuck her no matter how drunk I was.

  68. Divide by 10 by xs650 · · Score: 1

    What strategy should you adopt? Well, if you wait to the end, the odds are only 1/100 that the last person is the optimal choice; ditto if you choose the first person. The modeler then asks: what strategy should you adopt for optimum results? A little bit of mathematics involving infinite series gives the answer. You can prove mathematically that the best strategy is to look at (approximately) the first 36.787944117144235 people (rounding it to, say, 37 people) and then you should choose the first person from that point on that is 'better' then the previous 37 people.


    Divide above by 10 for nerds, or they will die of old age before finding a mate.

  69. that seems a nice book... by Vulture101 · · Score: 1

    but i am never going to reach the 37th woman, much less the 100th...

    1. Re:that seems a nice book... by Resident+Netizen · · Score: 1

      Start here:

      www.doubleyourdating.com

      --
      My other sig is a Porsche!
  70. There must be something to this by CaptainCarrot · · Score: 5, Interesting
    All I know is, out of all the classes I ever took in college, only the Math professors consistently acted as if they'd gotten laid recently.

    This was in sharp contrast to the Electrical Engineering department...

    --
    And the brethren went away edified.
    1. Re:There must be something to this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, you do know why Mathematicians are not eligible for Nobel Prizes, right? (Nobel's gf ran away w/ one.) Damn those handsome devils!

    2. Re:There must be something to this by Dolly_Llama · · Score: 4, Funny

      Feynman is quoted as saying, "Physics is to math what sex is to masturbation"

      so it wasn't necessarily that your math professors had gotten laid per se...

      --

      Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. -- Carl Sagan

    3. Re:There must be something to this by CaptainCarrot · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Feynman wouldn't necessarily have known from personal experience. As a physicist, he was unique in many ways.

      Reflecting on the array of instructors, it occurs to me that each department had its characteristic temprament by which we might be able make a guess or two about their personal lives.

      The math department was uniformly good-tempered and mellow, while the EE profs all seemed a little... tense. As noted above.

      The CS department formed while I was there -- this was the early '80s. When I started out on my CS major you could get it either through the EE or the Math department. Mine's from the Math department. Neener.

      Physics was an interesting case and showed the most variation. The younger instructors seemed happy and reasonably contented, while the older ones mostly were trying too hard as if to say, "I could still get laid if I wanted to! Really!" Disco was dead by then, but you wouldn't know it from how some of them dressed.

      Chemistry profs all acted like they didn't need it. Since this department included biology/biochemistry, maybe this indicates that too much knowledge is a very dangerous thing.

      I never took any Mechanical, Civil, or Marine Engineering courses so I can't say anything about those profs from personal experience. There were some frightening things in the bathroom stalls in the buildings that housed those departments though.

      The Phys Ed instructors were much like PE teachers everywhere else. IOW, I'm not going there.

      We were made to take at least one "Liberal Arts" type of class each semester so we had a small chance of turning into well-rounded individuals and not inveterate geeks. These were all collected in the Humanities department. However, every prof I ever had in those courses appeared to be same-sex oriented, so I had no standard by which to calibrate their tension levels.

      Finally, the Management Science department all acted like they were getting it from the departmental secretary, but I have it on good authority that this wasn't true.

      --
      And the brethren went away edified.
    4. Re:There must be something to this by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      I see, and Engineering to Physics is like sex with a human female to being fucked by an electron microscope?

    5. Re:There must be something to this by ezzzD55J · · Score: 1
      Nice post.

      Finally, the Management Science department all acted like they were getting it from the departmental secretary, but I have it on good authority that this wasn't true.

      I'm sure she told all the boys they were the only one ;)

  71. dating 100 people not that hard by Surt · · Score: 1

    That's say 1 weekend to meet someone + 3 weekend dates = 1 month each for about 7-8 years. Take twice as long and still get married by 30. The key here is that you have to commit yourself to keeping the early relationships short, or possibly juggle multiple relationships.

    --
    "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
  72. Maths dating service by Bifurcati · · Score: 2, Funny
    Do you find other numbers too complex? Are you looking for that perfect number to be an integral part of your life? Never fear! They don't have to be imaginary! Our Numeric Dating service factors in all variables so even odd numbers can be happy!

    (For the record, I wrote this during a second year maths lecture...good ol' vector calculus inspiring my creativity.)

  73. Sigh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Once again woman is reduced to a sexual object in a vain attempt to push a product. Wait a minute, that's a good thing. I promise I'll buy whatever you're selling if you blow me.

  74. My Girlfriend only ever wants to.... by Colourspace · · Score: 2, Funny

    Eat PI, not read about it. Dammit.

  75. When I was getting my Ph.D in math... by exp(pi*sqrt(163)) · · Score: 2, Funny
    the words 'sex' and 'mathematics' were not juxtaposed all that often
    When I did my PhD they frequently appeared together. Often in conjunction with phrases like "isn't getting any".
    --
    Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
  76. Needs to do some optimizing by JimmytheGeek · · Score: 2, Informative

    His search strategy is off.

    Sure, a small proportion of the total population is actually eligible, but he can screen more than one candidate / day. Many will not meet his age requirements, attractiveness requirements, etc.

    Apply some crypto-fu, take some shortcuts. Don't solve the problem the hardest way.

    Of course, it's actually harder than he figures. I think the number of folks I could actually hang with lifetime are more than two standard deviations from norm...

    1. Re:Needs to do some optimizing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Yeah, tell me about it. He does a bunch of complicated math and then seems to forget math completely in his conclusion.

      Basic statistics:
      • There are 18,726 girls he'd be compatible with out of a pool of 1,487,838 girls who pass a criteria he can instantly apply (1st-world, female, 18-25, attractive.) Applying this criteria is basically instinctual for straight males aged ~21 years who find themselves in a 1st-world country.
      • That means there is a 1.26% chance that if he approaces a woman that meets his criteria, he will find her compatible.
      • It also means that there is a 2.5% chance that if he approaches 2 women, one of them will be compatible (1 - (1 - 1.26%)^2)
      • Lather, rinse, repeat a few times and you find that by the 55th attempt, he should have a 50% chance of having met someone compatible.
      • This doesn't mean he has to date 55 people though, he only has to pursue 55 people until such time as they a) tell him they're already involved, b) tell him they're not interested, c) tell him they like britney spears' music (or anything else that would lead him to the conclusion that she doesn't meet his standard for intelligence.)
      • By 110 attempts, he's improved his chances to around 75%. By 182 its up to 90%.
      • The problems come with the cases that are too close to call. As many of us can attest, a single attempt can take anywhere from a few seconds to many years to determine incompatibility. Those years really hurt your chances.
      • This also discounts searching strategies that are likely to yield better results. For instance, by joining a book club that chooses serious books, he is likely to encounter a higher percentage of women who meet his intellectual standards.
  77. Bad Math: Nicole Kidman was born in Honolulu by postbigbang · · Score: 0, Troll

    And so the first proof fails.

    --
    ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    1. Re:Bad Math: Nicole Kidman was born in Honolulu by Larch · · Score: 2, Informative

      But her parents are Australian.

    2. Re:Bad Math: Nicole Kidman was born in Honolulu by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Kidman family owns most of Australia.
      http://www.achievers-odds.com.au/topac hiever/skidm anfull.htm

  78. Yet Another Pickup Line by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are you a differentiable function?

    Because I'd like to be tangent to your curve.

  79. manly men,girly men, and our weird evolved minds by geekpuppySEA · · Score: 2, Informative

    Some chick I knew once wondered aloud "what's the difference between a cutie and a hottie?" Well...

    The shape of a human jawbone is related to the amount of testosterone present during certain phases of development. Guys who have higher levels of testosterone turn out with square jaws and guys with lower levels turn out with rounder jaws.

    Also, guys with higher testosterone levels are more likely to cheat on their sex partners, so from women's perspectives, over the course of evolutionary time natural selection taught women to view guys like this (unconsciously anyway) as better for short-term relationships (since they were unlikely to stay around), thus making them hotties.

    On the other hand, guys with rounder jaws / lower testosterone were less likely to cheat on their partners, thus making them better-suited for long-term relationships, thus making them cuties.

    --
    Intelligent Design: because MATH is HARD.
  80. Book full of sex by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Unfortunately it was a book on lisp. sex was the short form for S(ymbolic).ex(pression).

  81. For more on this topic please read... by apecar · · Score: 0, Troll

    an account of an innuendo-laced mathematical experience

  82. These stories are related I feel... by MrBigInThePants · · Score: 1

    "Ask Slashdot: What Interests High-School Students?"

    - and -

    "Book Reviews: Mathematics and Sex"

    One asks what would interest high school students in science and technology, the other provides a solution...

    After all, horny teenagers are ALWAYS interested in sex...

  83. Re:I prefer the combination "engineering and sex". by BorgCopyeditor · · Score: 1

    It's off to the creep lab for you, my friend.

    --
    Shop as usual. And avoid panic buying.
  84. When mathematicians studied sex, they called it... by museumpeace · · Score: 1

    "modeling evolutionary mechanisms" which was a pretty good way to make normal folk of the interesting sex keep their distance.
    But where I went to school, the girls knew the math of sex very well: it was just three numbers which, much in the way that the right three numbers open a safe, could open a frat boy's wallet. 36-22-34 was a particularly effective combination.

    You may take offense at the reduction of one gender's regard for another to a mere sequence of numbers but that is really the essence of the gap everyone expects between mathematical inclination which is reductionist and sexual inclination which is wholistic when its healthy.

    --
    SLASHDOT: news for people who can't concentrate on work or have no life at all and got tired of yelling back at the TV.
  85. Here's her video by DaoudaW · · Score: 2, Informative

    Here's Clio's video. I'm late to the discussion, so I'm kind of surprised no karma whores got there before me!

  86. "absurd...folk tale" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    ...including an analysis of how absurd the folk tale is that more sex occurs in the first year of marriage then in all subsequent years combined.

    Um. It's not a folk tale. And it's certainly not absurd.

    One wild weekend in a mediterranean island: 44 times. Since then: no more than 3 times each year.

    For 14 years . You do the math! Please don't mod this funny

    1. Re:"absurd...folk tale" by perdu · · Score: 1
      One wild weekend in a mediterranean island: 44 times. Since then: no more than 3 times each year.
      Dude! (Or Dudette!) Get back to that island and stay there!
      --
      You only use 2% of your DNA
  87. She taught me some math once at uni by donscarletti · · Score: 4, Funny
    I go to UNSW in Sydney and actually have been in a tutorial which was taken by Dr Cresswell when my normal tutor was away about a year ago. This was when I was doing MATH 1231 (Mathematics 1b).

    She seemed fairly competent teacher although it was obvious she took the class at almost zero notice as a favour for someone and didn't know what the hell we were supposed to be learning. She struck me as someone more in to research than teaching, though that applies to most accedemics I guess.

    I went onto IRC and for some reason, during the course of the conversation, I mentioned the fact that I just came back from a math tute which was taken by a youngish, blonde, female substitute. Since I was talking to males on IRC, someone asked the obvious question: "is she hot". My reply was something like: "she's ok I guess, nothing special... she might look better under different lighting".

    Now I find out on slashdot that she was voted one of Australia's 50 most beautiful people. So now I am thinking, um, are my standards abnormally high or what? No wonder I can't get a date.

    But it's funny that a woman can be standing less than two meters away from a guy for an entire hour but he won't know she's hot without slashdot. I'm not kidding either.

    --
    When Argumentum ad Hominem falls short, try Argumentum ad Matrem
    1. Re:She taught me some math once at uni by back_pages · · Score: 1
      I dunno.. I saw the video someone linked above and her pics and I'd say she's like 6, 6.5. She's not unattractive - I'd surely notice her when she's dressed up to be on camera or for a photo shoot - but she's not setting off fireworks for me. I guess she and I just don't have the right mathematics, nyuk nyuk.

      I'd go for a pretty dark haired girl over a blonde any day, though, so maybe I'm unusual in that as well.

    2. Re:She taught me some math once at uni by Canberra+Bob · · Score: 1

      Bummer, missed out on her tute by a few years :(

    3. Re:She taught me some math once at uni by MrHanky · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So, considering there are about 9,956,572 female australians, of which less than 50 are sexy enough for you, the chance of you getting laid is about 0.000005022, a rounding error from zero. And we haven't even started considering your own attractiveness from a woman's viewpoint.

      More seriously, though: Those lists of 'most beatiful women' only take those who figure regularly in the media into consideration, and noone gets on television without a thick layer of make-up, and the lighting is always better than at a uni in a TV studio.

    4. Re:She taught me some math once at uni by EnglishDude · · Score: 1

      I feel it all depends on your taste - some women who is drop dead gorgeous to some guys, are alright to some, and vice versa.

    5. Re:She taught me some math once at uni by ballantrae · · Score: 1

      you're insane man. Man, she is cute!!!

    6. Re:She taught me some math once at uni by mandalayx · · Score: 1

      no worries dude. different strokes for different folks. for example some of these pop stars, no I woudln't want to do them...

  88. but we are NERDS, remember: by museumpeace · · Score: 1

    so even
    ...Certainly, 100 possibilities seems like a lot of choices to have if one is not the current day equivalent of a sultan...
    is rediculuously remote...try 10 or, like me, 1: just marry your lab partner in physic class if you don't think he/she is an idiot. You can come to that conclusion later:(

    --
    SLASHDOT: news for people who can't concentrate on work or have no life at all and got tired of yelling back at the TV.
  89. Sex Math by WoBIX · · Score: 1

    1 + 1 = 3

    Nooooooooooooooo!

  90. nice video of her adult entertainment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    its available here: http://www.cliocresswell.com/

  91. Math and Sex by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Applying Math to Sex is like talking about the number infinity. There are an infinite amount of numbers; the universe is expanding; etc etc etc.

    You could waste time talking about it or you could actually try to do the math by solving the problem.

    Stick your penis into a vagina and experience a whole new world. The final frontier for some of you.

  92. Nicole by gipsy+boy · · Score: 1

    Nicole Kidman is born in Hawaii, by the way.

  93. Logicians... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...do it with models.

  94. Mathematics and Physics by Quanza · · Score: 1

    I once had a physics teacher who said

    "Math is to Physics as masturbation is to sex"

    --
    -Q
  95. case and point. by binarybum · · Score: 1

    Postulate:
    "As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."

    Proof:
    "You have to choose your life mate. The rules we adopt for this model are that you will be presented 100 choices one after another, you may date them, sleep with them, whatever. But, at the end, you must say yea or nay and if you say nay, you will never see them again."

    --
    ôó
  96. You call that cute? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I may be a geek, but I still have my standards!

  97. Gorgeous British women by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Not so hot"?

    Sophie Dahl, Naomi Campbell, Keira Knightley, Kate Winslet, Natasha Bedingfield, Cat Deeley, Kate Beckinsale, etc. etc.

    Which one of these turns you off then?

    1. Re:Gorgeous British women by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are outliers in every population. Don't forget Liz Hurley. Or maybe it's just that British actors are true thespians judged more by talent that looks, and you end up with more plain looking famous actresses.

    2. Re:Gorgeous British women by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well I'm working at a British university right now, and I can tell you this campus has got tons of hot-looking chicks walking around.
      Lots of "outliers" must flock here for some reason. :)

  98. Um... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you've got nothing to say, don't just spew crap. It hurts my brain.

    I'd tell you to speak for yourself, but apparently you just did.

    Noone really cares about posts like the one you just made. You tried way too hard to make the reviewer sound like a fool, and wound up looking like one yourself. The reviewer most likely didn't even see your comment. I, however, will take comfort in the fact that this message will be reaching you personally the next time you login, and that my anonymity will disallow any verbal retaliation from you. Now that's how it's done.

    Comments by morons, indeed.

  99. Congratulations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You shot a fish in a barrel.

  100. We have People magazine by nihilogos · · Score: 1

    Except it's full of soft porn, and sections where you can send in photos of your chick reclining on your car.

    It probably also has a regular poll section.

    --
    :wq
  101. Obligatory Poly Nomial reference... by xactuary · · Score: 1

    ... to this classic story: http://www.macs.hw.ac.uk/~pjbk/humour/polynomial.h tml

    --
    Say hello to my little sig.
    1. Re:Obligatory Poly Nomial reference... by corngrower · · Score: 2, Funny

      Ah, yes. Poor innocent Poly Nomial, lost her convergence in a vector field by some smooth operator.

  102. Wrong URL, dude. No pretty pictures. by Lethyos · · Score: 1

    Wrong URL. Try this one instead. And yes, she is very cute. I'd bone her. (Hey baby, wanna eliminate one of your chances of finding the wrong mate tonight? ;)

    --
    Why bother.
  103. How appropriate... by jtbauki · · Score: 1

    With a title of "Mathematics and Sex", you moderators sure know what interests us /. people.

  104. empirical formula by whovian · · Score: 1

    sex * mathematics = 1.

    (Translation: Sex is inversely proportional to mathematics.)

    --
    To-do List: Receive telemarketing call during a tornado warning. Check.
  105. Flawed logic by pbaer · · Score: 1

    The author assumes that you're the only one making the decision, marriage is a two person deal what's optimal for one person might not be optimal for the other.

    --
    There are 11 types of people, those who know unary and those who don't.
  106. Re:fr1st p0st !!two!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Strangely enough, that actually wasn't offtopic this time. What's the world coming to?

  107. the bar scene is not accurate by k2enemy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    but if you want to use game theory to analyze sex, here's an article about faking orgasms.

  108. Re:Wrong URL, dude. No pretty pictures. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'd bone her

    I always laugh at how meaningless this statement is.

  109. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  110. Who is Guttman? by giantsfan89 · · Score: 1

    Chapter 2 is called "Marriage and the Happily Ever After" and describes models for behavior in a relationship, including an analysis of how absurd the folk tale is that more sex occurs in the first year of marriage then in all subsequent years combined. Probably the most interesting work she talks about in this chapter are the models by Guttman et al. intended to analyze conversations between lovers to determine if the relationship is on the rocks. In this case the models they build are known to be highly accurate in predicting problems in the relationship.

    Maybe the writer meant John Gottman and his famous Love Lab?

    --
    Don't ping my cheese with your bandwidth!
  111. Other complications by Michael+Snoswell · · Score: 1

    Also, it's a mistake to assume a equal probability of matches with subsequent dates. Generally(!) people learn as they go on and even after 5 relationships your average person would have a much better idea of what they like and what they don't like and will tend to go out with people who are closer to their ideal than they would have earlier on. It becomes an optimisation problem rather than pure probability. There'd need to be some factors taken into account however like as you have more relationships that fail you might tend to be less likely to go out at all (too jaded) or too picky because you know just what you like. Or some people would purposely go out with someone who was different to the last person, on the assumption that if the last one didn't work then anything similar wouldn't work either.

    Then there's also the problem that once you start to determine what a match actually is and closeness of matching then you bring up the issue of relativity and perception. For example a relationship that failed may have been very close to a match but the perception (ie what they thought they were after or would like) was invalid. Likewise some people would never go out with "that type of person" but might end up doing so and finding a match, much to their surprise, so selection criteria is an issue.

    There's another factor also of time and that some people churn through one partner a month and others take years or decades or a lifetime to realise they're not with the right one and then (as mentioned earlier) they just can be bothered changing or chnage their perception and staywith what they've got. Some epople's perception/view changes over time anyway and they wake up one day and realise they're not in love and that's it and can't explain why.

    Now role all this into one equation/theory and I suspect it'd be so darn complicated people will just go back to random bonking or "rules of thumb" (cough cough) which, at the end of the day, come down to a mixture of genetics and upbringing.

    One final point is the "why" factor in searching for a match. (The why *after* a mtach is often different, again due to changed perspective or insight). Is the person searching because they want to leave home, want a mother figure, want children, want to control someone, want a house cleaner, want to be controlled, don't want to be alone etc etc. All these factors change the probabilities beyond simplistic calculations it seems this book covers.

    Mind you for a humorous book it gets you thinking a bit :-)

    --
    pithy comment
  112. Re:Wrong URL, dude. No pretty pictures. by Lethyos · · Score: 1

    And your point is...?

    --
    Why bother.
  113. She looks like the gal in Farside by HangingChad · · Score: 1
    A little anyway.

    What a great combination: Brains and beauty. Intelligent women are very sexy. When they're good looking, that's a bonus.

    --
    That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
  114. best math model - attractive_girl = my_age / 2 + 7 by glamb · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Don't know where this comes from, but the best mathematical model is the one where the age that you find girls most attractive is half your age plus 7 years. So a 10 yo boy thinks 12 yo girls are hot (10/2 + 7) A 20yo thinks 17yo girls are good, 30yo goes for 22yo, 40 for 27 etc. It works out pretty accurate.

    Probably developed by mathamatitions on a Saturday night "If I could get a date on a Saturday night, what age would I go for?"

  115. Re:How to write poorly, brought to you by Slashdot by dont_think_twice · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You are an idiot. The paragraph you quoted made perfect sense. You desperate attempts to pick it apart seem deranged, like the submitter is your lifelong enemy and you are desperate to show the world that you are smarter than him. I don't feel like going through all of your stupidity, so lets just take one example:

    Submitter: In particular this chapter includes a nice discussion of how sex itself can evolve. (It seems paradoxical that the question of how sex itself can evolve is not yet resolved.)

    You: There's no paradox here - having a discussion about something that may not yet be resolved is, well, normal. Seems the author just wanted to use the word "paradoxical".

    It is a paradox because sex is an essential element of reproduction, and hence darwinian selection, and so it seem obvious that our solid understanding of darwinian selection implies a good understanding of sexual evolution; yet we don't have a good understanding of sexual evolution.

    You assertion that there is no paradox because it is normal to discuss unresolved issues is nonsensical. The submitter did not assert that it was a paradox because it was being discussed, and I don't know why you would think that.

  116. Not 42 after all? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Well, D.A. had it close.

  117. What? by Transcendent · · Score: 1

    You mean I'm the only one mentally deriving the differential equation models for my partners orgasm, trying to time it perfeclty to achieve maximu...

    ...oh who am I kidding...

  118. So is it true that ... by SirBruce · · Score: 1

    ... One is the loneliest number?

    Bruce

  119. Re:How to write poorly, brought to you by Slashdot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    >And why is there an "After all" in there when >this has absolutely NOTHING to do with the >sentence before this one?

    This is an example of why it is prudent to not behave in a sneering, boorish manner in forums.
    In attempting to belittle the author you've revealed yourself to be a petty, ignorant ass. But you're in good company in these forums.

    If you've calmed down you should consider that asexual reproduction, though it has an obvious and significant advantage over sexual reproduction, clearly does not win hands down, and this is puzzling.

    And try re-reading those sentences you claim have "NOTHING" to do with each other.

  120. How do you quantify a personality? by Bequita · · Score: 3, Funny

    I think that personal relationships and emotions are really far too complicated to match up to a mathmatical equation. Once we like someone, are we really willing to give that person up just in case "someone better" might come along? If we do give them up did we ever really like them in the first place? I would say that finding the optimal person is a pointless exercise in the first place, and that expecting someone to be our optimal partner just sets us up for failure when they fail (in our eyes) to live up to such optimal-ness. A more rational approach is finding someone we like enough to deal with their sub-optimal nature. I suppose this could be quantitated, but how do you do this when we each gauge a person's worth by a different set of values?

    I love my husband very much (we'll be married a year on the 3rd of January) but I didn't marry him because he was the most attractive, and I didn't marry him because he was perfect (he is neither). I married him because I liked him enough to deal with his weirdness. And he married me because he liked me enough to deal with mine. But neither of us can quantitate WHY we like each other. Frankly, if we could, it would worry me.

    At this juncture my husband would like to say that he really married me because he says I'm going to be a world famous (read wealthy) cardiologist some day, and that when that day comes, he can quit his job, build a state of the art gaming system, and play computer games all day for the rest of his life.
    Dream on, honey.

    In short, and because it's getting late, I'd just like to say that I think the concept personal relationships can be defined by an algorithm is a load of dingos kidneys, and I'll leave it at that.

    --
    Yes, there are women on Slashdot. Deal with it.
    1. Re:How do you quantify a personality? by rpillala · · Score: 1

      For Abstract Algebra that I took as a math major, we had to write a paper about a practical application. I read an article where researchers used the concept of relations to model the interpersonal relations at a monastery. The particular relation they chose was "esteem." They conducted a survey of the monks. The survey consisted of a list of monks, and each person had to indicate whether they esteemed the person more, less or equally with themselves. Using this information, the researchers predicted which of the monks would still be at that monastery in 6 months, one year, and 2 years. And they were largely right.

      The portion of your post that made me think of this is that you mentioned a mathematical equation. There are lots of ways to model things besides equations. I'm not just nitpicking here. People think math is about quantities when really it doesn't have to be.

      --
      When the axe came to the forest, the trees said, "Look out - the handle was once one of us."
    2. Re:How do you quantify a personality? by Bequita · · Score: 1

      Well, I am most certainly not a math person! I do tend to think of math solely as equations.

      I do, however, have two comments/observations about the example with the monks:

      Firstly, you said the researchers were largely right. This tells me that they weren't always right. Now, as a scientist, I know that models don't predict accurately 100% of the time, but because of the preconception that mathmatics is a field of absolutes (of which I am guilty), I think it's worth pointing out.

      Secondly, even though I grant that a mathmatical model doesn't need to use equations, how can you create a model to predict whether two people are optimal for each other, when each person uses a unique set of characteristics to gauge this? It's not like you could set one characteristic like the monk example, although you probably could use a similar method to predict which couples would REMAIN couples in 6 months, a year, 2 years.

      Thanks for the response though. These sort of discussions are why I stick around here. :-)

      --
      Yes, there are women on Slashdot. Deal with it.
    3. Re:How do you quantify a personality? by rpillala · · Score: 1

      It's only because it was so long ago that I'm not sure if they were largely right or completely right. There's also the question of how to gauge their accuracy. I assume the monks didn't know that these researchers were sort of running a pool to see who would leave and when. If someone left in the middle of the seventh month I'd say the researchers were pretty accurate to predict 6 months.

      There was another essay by Morris Kline about topology I read for some other class. In it, the author intorduces topology by pointing out how numbers are just useless in some circumstances. Consider this recent conversation between you and the distance formula:

      You: Where's the nearest 7-11?
      Distance Formula: 3.2 mi
      You: Oh ok thanks which way?
      Distance Formula: Take any direction.

      Which is to say that the distance formula doesn't answer the "where question" and for that you need topology.

      I agree that people use their own criteria for deciding who is right for them, but I'm sure you'll agree that many people wind up being wrong. I've certainly been wrong about it before. It's possible then that there is a method for modeling this and predicting useful info and that the outcome would be different than you expected.

      --
      When the axe came to the forest, the trees said, "Look out - the handle was once one of us."
  121. What's the square root of 69? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Eight something.


    Say it out loud.

  122. Mojo jojo? by JurgenThor · · Score: 0

    Of course, the author probably would have said something like "And as everyone knows, the sky is not royal blue, but paradoxically, more of a turquoise, and as usual, one would find the earth, unsurprisingly, located in a direction not above them, clearly showing that the issues are unresolved."
    Sounds to me like the author is Mojo-jojo.

    --
    GENERAL PUBLIC SIGNATURE (GPS) Any replies (derivatives) of this post must also use the GPS
  123. Pi? by Quixote · · Score: 1

    Anybody else notice that the ISBN number for this book contains "14159" (the first 5 deciman digits of pi)?

  124. and remember this is the land of Nicole Kidman by pigreco314 · · Score: 1

    Before or after surgery?

    --
    "linux" is a very common word and was not included in your search.
  125. Yes and no by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think it's safe to say that you can always say whether you prefer girl A or girl B; you can't tell me that two girls are equally good w.r.t. being a life partner. Let's use A ) B if A is strictly better than B. Clearly if A ) B, then it is clearly not the case that B ) A.

    The question is, is ) transitive? I.e., if A ) B, and B ) C, is A ) C? I would say yes. I cannot imagine saying that I would rather marry A than B, would rather marry B than C, but would rather marry C than A. It doesn't seem possible, but perhaps you have strange preferences.

    If ) is transitive, then the set of girls, G, is simply ordered by ). Not only that, any subset X has a best girl. Proof by induction:

    Basis case: X has one element. This element is the best girl.
    Inductive step: Suppose X has a best girl, a. Then take an element, b, in G, not in X. If b ) a, then b is the best girl in X union { b } since b ) a and a ) x for all x (except a) in X, so by transitivity, b ) x for all x in X. Otherwise, a is the best girl in X union { b }.

    Thus, all finite subsets of G have a best girl. G is a finite subset of G, so G has a best girl.

    Therefore, the set of 100 girls has a best (optimal) mate.

    So either you believe that you cannot compare every pair of girls, or you believe your preferences in girls are not transitive. Which is it?

    1. Re:Yes and no by Bush+Pig · · Score: 1

      There are two problems here:

      1. It won't be a well-ordered set; and

      2. Even if it was well-ordered, that might be in terms of someone else's preferences.

      --
      What a long, strange trip it's been.
  126. More assumptions? by el+americano · · Score: 1

    What are the chances that you would recognize the person most optimal for you, given the impossibility of actually finding out, i.e. living the rest of your life with each of them and then comparing? This is further complicated by the fact that while she might be the most optimal for you, you might not be *her* best choice. What you want is the person you would be happiest with who won't dump you. Where are the unknown possibilities represented here?

    Also, does anyone else think this number 100 is extraordinarily unrealistic? Especially for math enthusiasts! Assuming that you'd be willing for this number of relationships to occur between the age range of 20 to 40 - where the quality of women you could attract will rise and fall, by the way - that's 5 socially intimate relationships a year (a completely unrealistic number for moi - a math enthusiast) Such a lucky bastard should have no trouble finding a worthy mate, and if he's dumb enough to jetison 37 women in a row, regardless of their worth, then I sincerely hope that the 37% chance of the best girl being in the first group comes true and he gets to spend the rest of his life comparing girl number 100 to the 50 or so who were better than her.

    It seems mathematics isn't best way to find a mate! Who knew?

    --
    Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others. -Groucho Marx
    1. Re:More assumptions? by Bronster · · Score: 1

      What are the chances that you would recognize the person most optimal for you, given the impossibility of actually finding out, i.e. living the rest of your life with each of them and then comparing?

      Um, none.

      Then again, after 37 trial runs, you'd have a fairly good idea of what worked and what didn't - for you. ... while she might be the most optimal for you, you might not be *her* best choice ...

      Given that we're already talking about the unmeasurable here, I rebut you by pointing out that this is a compatibility factor. The fact that you're not a good enough choice for her means she also isn't a good choice for you precisely because she _would_ dump you. Reductio ad blah blah blah.

      So, this isn't an issue. By being the one that you'll be most happy spending the rest of your life with, she's already committed to being happy with you. Yay.

      It seems mathematics isn't best way to find a mate! Who knew?

      Yeah, no shit.

    2. Re:More assumptions? by wtrmute · · Score: 1

      Of course the number is extremely unrealistic! Here, 100 is standard lingo for "a large number". If you pay attention to the end of the review, you'll find out that 37 is a rounding of 100/e; choose a more appropriate number for you and calculate your own optimum.

      Also, if you aren't able to rate your relationships with respect to one another, then you should forget about relationships altogether. Come on, you don't have to apply a mathematical formula for evaluation; you don't even have to come up with a numerical score. You just have to be able to order the relationships from worst to best: "I didn't like spending time with Jenny as much as I did with Claire, therefore Claire was better than Jenny". How hard is that, anyway?

      And given that (simple) ability, if maths can give you a better chance of becoming happier, then by all means, use it! Or don't, the choice is yours. But discounting them wholesale because you're "uncomfortable" with them is sort of unfair...

  127. Picture of Clio Creswell by Faithman2k · · Score: 3, Informative

    Here is her picture http://www.saxton.com.au/saxton_db_data/images/Cre sswell_Clio.jpg Moderators please ignore karma whoring.

  128. The women of math and physics by totipotentsoul · · Score: 1

    She's ok, but aren't there hotter mathematics/physics ladies out there?

    I remember some nice looking greek lady that talked about string theory.

    The author's picture is below
    http://www.saxton.com.au/default.asp?sd8=23 32

    --
    The best posts are both flamebait and informative.
  129. pick = next_one better than best of (1/e * dates) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    In college you learn the secrets to life itself:

    The crucial dating starts after n * 1/e.

    We had to do this problem in the first day of our random signals class (who said electrical engineers don't learn how to date).

    Assumptions:
    1 - You are given the size of the total dating population you will ever date, a priori (integer n)
    2 - No two dates are of equal value.
    3 - One date is your best, but all are possible compatible matches, and they all like you too (so you're always weeding out and not counting the nutjobs, golddiggers, nags, clingers, cheaters, coldfish, liars, dimwits, and dogs as part of n).
    4 - The dates are presequenced in a random order by God (hence it's in a random signals class).
    4 - You date each one in sequence.
    6 - You know nothing about your future dates, except n from item 1.
    7 - You learn everything you need to decide about this date in a reasonable time (i.e. this does not affect your ability to meet all n dates specified in 1 in the bloom of youth).
    8 - You decide whether this mate is best, given what you know about this one, and all others before.
    9 - You must choose that date and mate, or dump that date and move on.
    10 - You cannot ever go back to choose a previous date. no second chances.

    Each time you date allows you to increase your knowledge base about which one is best. But you can't date them all, or you're stuck with the last one, and there is a large (1-1/n) chance that you will not get the best one. Mathematically, the function (best I've seen so far) is convolved with (chance the best one is yet to come). It's a famous curve that peaks kind of early, and tapers off gradually.

    So the more you date, the more you know, but the greater likelihood you'll be spending the rest of your life pining about "the one that got away". So you can see why some people marry early, because they generally pine away about all the ones before (remember this whole population is of people that are minimally suitable mates). Suckers.

    The professor demonstrated that the crucial dating starts after n * 1/e.

    Basically, you must dump each and every one of the dates up to that point, only gather information, and remember the best one. The first subsequent date that is better than that "best one" is your mate. You can stop right there, because statistically you have most likely ended up with the best one. This person may not actually be the best, but at least this one's better than all you've seen before.

    This means for n=10, dump the first 2, and mate with the next one better than either of those. For n=100, you have to break 36 hearts!
    ...Now you know why EEs are cold bastards.

    Of course in real life it is difficult to estimate n. People also tend to change their threshold for minimum suitability throughout life. And it turns out that all your dates are playing the same game on you. The love of your life may just dump you one day (I never thought random signals would be such a heartbreaker).

    The best thing to do is grit your teeth, and find some people who will tell you what kind of a shot you have at increasing your population. I.e. are you hot or not? Then choose your threshold and stick with it.

    It's a tough thing to do, but at least now you know why the EEs (and stats majors) got all the hotties!

    ;-)
    bb.

  130. Is Clio still at UNSW? by goodbye_kitty · · Score: 2, Informative

    This lady used to be my maths tutor in 1st year university... =)

    1. Re:Is Clio still at UNSW? by perdu · · Score: 1

      Was tutoring her strategy to maximize her chances?

      --
      You only use 2% of your DNA
  131. 2 + 2 = Hardon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's true! And who'dda thunk it?!

  132. Poorly written book, poorly written review by puck13 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Unfortunately, the author of the review didn't actually offer much insight into the quality of the writing.

    Cresswell doesn't do a very goood job of integrating the actual math with the implications of the the theories. She'll say things like "Mathematicicans would use an equation that looks like this: [large integral here]", but then not explain the integral or math at all, and instead launch into a discussion of the social ramifications of the mentioned theory.

    When it comes to the social aspects, she's not a very clear writer either. Her writing style can be ambiguous and make it difficult to follow her examples.

    Her writing is also filled with cheap sexual puns and insinuation. Perhaps good for your average /. reader, but not for anyone who's made it past the adolescent humor phase.

    Overall, the book had some interesting notions and some notable flaws. She didn't do anyone any favors by pointing out the scary math and then ignoring it. She could have conceptually addressed the math a little more without scaring off the math-phobic. It also could have benefited from a good editor.

    (Apologies for the vague examples; I haven't got a copy of the book with me.)

  133. Or, as the French mathematicians say... by Balinares · · Score: 1

    Voulez-vous Cauchy avec moi? ;)

    --

    -- B.
    This sig does in fact not have the property it claims not to have.
    1. Re:Or, as the French mathematicians say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      coucher

    2. Re:Or, as the French mathematicians say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's the joke, dumbass, Cauchy being a famous French mathematician

  134. the Sultan problem... by jarich · · Score: 1

    The Sultan problem rephrased: How many people can I screw and discard while keeping good odds of not getting stuck with someone just like myself?

  135. Fails to take age into account by Raffaello · · Score: 1

    This is a really poor model unless you manage to work your way through all 37 in a week end. By the time you get to number 38, even if she is only 70% as good as the previous best, (say number 9), number 38 is quite likely a decade or more younger than number 9 now is (and consequently, that much hotter), since it's taken you 15 years to work your way through 37 girl friends. So you'd do well to snap up 38, before you're too old and burnt out to land anyone even half as good as number 9 was!

  136. Best pick up line for a math chick by zapp · · Score: 1

    ....

    I'd like to take the area under your curve!

    --
    no comment
  137. B + G = S by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In high school, I learned that beer + girls = sluts.

  138. Images of Clio Cresswell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  139. Re:f(sex) = Reminds me of by Scud · · Score: 1

    The old joke:

    "What's the square root of 69?"

    "Ate something"

    --
    I dream in binary.
  140. Re:How to write poorly, brought to you by Slashdot by dubl-u · · Score: 1
    Hi! I'm sure it's really fun for you to trash a sincere effort. But perhaps you could just spare the rest of us and send the author a little private mail? Maybe the review's a little overwritten, but it wouldn't kill you to acknowledge that the guy, gratis, took some time to tell us about a book he liked.
    a tantalizing hint of what the mathematics of evolution is all about.
    A tantalizing hint? Seems like a pretty crappy chapter if all it has to offer is a hint, doesn't it?

    Hardly. There's a huge amount of math relating to evolution, and it's a rich field of study. In a popular science book, a hint is about all you can get. If the author does it right, of course the hint will be tantalizing.
    For example, who would have thought that parasites might be the reason sex arose?
    An insectophiliac? What is this an example of anyway, other than how the author may have bored their professor into passing their thesis without reading past the first page?

    I don't follow that field much anymore, but last I heard, this author is exactly right. The current best theory for why sexual reproduction exists is indeed because of parasites.

    The problem is that parasites, with their short lifetimes, can evolve to pick the immune system's locks. Sexual (as opposed to asexual) reproduction scrambles the combinations in a way that makes it harder for parasites. There's even intriguing evidence for this in human mating patterns.

    The author hasn't even told us what issues he's talking about!

    That's because this is a book review, and not the actual book. The idea is not to tell you everything in the book, but merely to give you an indication of whether it's a book you might like. The review did that for me, and apparently it did that for you as well.

    But say, since you're such an expert, I'm sure you can point us to your better book reviews, right?
  141. Re: (Undergraduate) Men Avoid... by puck13 · · Score: 1

    Given their subject pool, this is not surprising. Men at that age are not going to be confident in themselves as older, more accomplished men.

    I expect as the sample pool becomes more accomplished and confident themselves, they'll be more inclined to choose peers as mates. Not necessarily the majority of men, but certainly at a higher rate than 20 year olds who still feel the need to prove themselves.

  142. The Joy of Sets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    was the actual name of an old set theory book in my uni library... had to borrow it.. turned out it didn't really make set theory any more stimulating

  143. Go To Her Site by Master+of+Transhuman · · Score: 1

    here and watch her video of her appearances on various talk shows, etc.

    This is one hot babe!

    --
    Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
  144. But... by ayjay29 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Consider the equation

    b 4i 4q r u/18

    --
    Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated up.
  145. Models by TheGrim · · Score: 0
    ...While we do study models...
    As a maths grad, yes - this pretty much sums up my sex life :(
  146. Top 5 engineer/scientist pickup lines by CowardX10 · · Score: 1

    (from the UCSD Koala)

    1. Babe, I bet you and I share the same
    Resonant Frequency.

    2. You put the fun in eigenfunction.

    3. My love for you is invariant in every
    inertial reference frame.

    4. In the limit as time goes to infinity,
    I know we'll converge.

    5. You're prettier than all the girls on
    http://www.cybersluts.com/

  147. mathematics in the kama sutra by solferino · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Reading from the Kama Sutra, Chapter 1

    Oh beautiful maiden with beaming eyes, tell me, since you understand the method of inversion, what number multiplied by 3, then increased by three-quarters of the product, then divided by 7, then diminished by one-third of the result, then multiplied by itself, then diminished by 52, whose square root is then extracted before 8 is added and then divided by 10, gives the final result of 2?

    This excerpt came up in an interview with this book's author which you can read here

    1. Re:mathematics in the kama sutra by Alsee · · Score: 1

      Answer: 28

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
  148. Worst pick-up lines for a CS chick... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    (they're rare, but they do exist)

    Care to malloc(4-1/2 inches)?

    My function pointer may not be as flexible as your closure but it runs a lot faster.

    I'd like to implement your interface.

    Do you support S-Exp input?

    Can I have root access to accept connections on port 69?

    1. Re:Worst pick-up lines for a CS chick... by Zorilla · · Score: 1

      Care to malloc(4-1/2 inches)?

      Lady: Buffer underflow!

      --

      It would be cool if it didn't suck.
  149. Love and Tensor Algebra by david.given · · Score: 1
    (by Stanislaw Lem, tr. by Michael Kandel)
    Come, let us hasten to a higher plane
    Where dyads tread the fairy fields of Venn,
    Their indices bedecked from one to n
    Commingled in an endless Markov chain!

    Come, every frustum longs to be a cone
    And every vector dreams of matrices.
    Hark to the gentle gradient of the breeze:
    It whispers of a more ergodic zone.

    In Riemann, Hilbert or in Banach space
    Let superscripts and subscripts go their ways.
    Our asymptotes no longer out of phase,
    We shall encounter, counting, face to face.

    I'll grant thee random access to my heart,
    Thou'lt tell me all the constants of thy love;
    And so we two shall all love's lemmas prove,
    And in our bound partition never part.

    For what did Cauchy know, or Christoffel,
    Or Fourier, or any Boole or Euler,
    Wielding their compasses, their pens and rulers,
    Of thy supernal sinusoidal spell?

    Cancel me not - for what then shall remain?
    Abscissas some mantissas, modules, modes,
    A root or two, a torus and a node:
    The inverse of my verse, a null domain.

    Ellipse of bliss, converge, O lips divine!
    the product of four scalars it defines!
    Cyberiad draws nigh, and the skew mind
    Cuts capers like a happy haversine.

    I see the eigenvalue in thine eye,
    I hear the tender tensor in thy sigh.
    Bernoulli would have been content to die,
    Had he but known such a^2 cos 2 phi!
  150. ahhh our Clio by exekewtable · · Score: 1

    Clio Cresswell was the only reason I dragged my arse out of bed to get to her math's tutes at uni

  151. Reminds me of a good joke... by jonadab · · Score: 1

    I can get away with telling this, because I majored in math.

    A doctor, a lawyer, and a mathematician were discussing the relative merits
    of having a wife versus a mistress. The doctor was talking about stress
    levels and extolling the physiological benefits of emotional stability; for
    health reasons, he said, it's better to have a wife. The lawyer was talking
    about legal issues and liabilities and settlements, and he claimed that it
    was preferable to have a mistress.

    The mathematician said it was better to have both, because that way, when the
    wife thinks you're with the mistress, and the mistress thinks you're with the
    wife, you can get some time to yourself and do mathematics.

    --
    Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
  152. Obvious similarity by Kukuman · · Score: 1

    In my mind, mathematics and sex are very similar, in that I don't understand either one.

  153. Re: Another Line during my High School by karthik_r085 · · Score: 1

    Hey, if we add both of us, and subtract our clothes, you divide your legs, then you can multiply!!!

  154. Pics of the author by pestario · · Score: 1

    http://images.google.com/images?q=Clio%20Cresswell &hl=en&lr=&sa=N&tab=wi

    --
    :n
  155. pi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    mmmm sweet American Pi....

  156. Other activities by FraggedSquid · · Score: 1

    Pumping lemmas?

    --
    You don't need a lab to make mud.
  157. Shotgun wedding? (n/t) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    no text

  158. The author's other work by annesdata · · Score: 1

    Clio Cresswell is a great ambassador for science, not least because she's so attractive. She also has an amazing gift for public speaking, and uses this not only in the university lecture theatre but also on television, on the radio and now in print. Her radio spots range from short grabs on popular stations to more in-depth (but still accessible) analysis on Australia's public broadcaster. Read some of these here, here, here and here. There's also a short interview about the book here.

  159. Population Control by Fgarb · · Score: 1

    Early cultures = usually patrilinear. So Hebrew girls married to Egyptian men have Egyptian babies. Jewish descent is matrilinear NOW, and some scholars believe it switched from patrilinear to matrilinear during (and because of) the Egyptian years.

    The big argument was that in times of trouble, the Hebrews might join with the non-Egyptians, and overthrow the Pharaohs. So if you kill the potential warriors, you lay the seeds of...

    ... the fierce Jewish Mother-In-Law. I think Fran Drescher's voice can be harnessed as a sonic weapon like in the first DUNE movie!

    Sorry, rambled a bit there!


    All this scholarship is, of course, complicated by the complex subjects of "Biblical Archeology," and the whole lack of evidence for the Exodus story, etc, etc, Cross cultural myths, etc etc. YMMV

  160. does that mean... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If I switch from being a physicist to being a mathematician then I'll be able to have some of it (sex)?

  161. Re:pick = next_one better than best of (1/e * date by perdu · · Score: 1
    10 - You cannot ever go back to choose a previous date. no second chances.
    I wonder how the result would change if the model allowed a chance to go back to anyone, or back to a recent date with some percentage of success -- this should be closer to real life. Perhaps the curve would peak sooner and decrease at a lower rate?
    --
    You only use 2% of your DNA
  162. Einstein quotes by leonbloy · · Score: 1
    Einstein probably put it best when he said:
    "As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."
    He said it ? Where ? Book, edition, page and paragraph, please ?

    I read somewhere (where ? well... perhaps I'm just inventing it) that the fake quotes that abound in Internet are evenly shared among Mark Twain, Oscar Wilde and Einstein. I guess that, here in Slashdot, there is a login bias towards Einstein
    Celebrity has its shortcomings, for sure To be presumed responsible of so many "clever sayings" ... it must be a hard thing.
    1. Re:Einstein quotes by book_reader · · Score: 1

      This quote is for real. It's from Albert Einstein's address to the Prussian Academy of Sciences in Berlin on January 27th, 1921.. Here's a link for
      an English version of this paper which, like everything Einstein wrote, is very interesting in it's entirety.

  163. Not that I am recomending it, but... by TamMan2000 · · Score: 1

    Actually first cousin marriages are still a problem even if not illegal. It has been shown to give a 10 times higher chance for birth defects than pregnancies in general

    If a situation were to arrise where a minimum number of people needed to produce maximum decendants in minimum time... 10 times a small number is still pretty small.

    --
    "I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...
  164. Re:best math model - attractive_girl = my_age / 2 by TheLink · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What's the corresponding formula for ladies though?

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  165. Math Pick-up Lines by SeanDuggan · · Score: 1

    Hey, I was wondering if you could integrate my natural log?
    Baby, let's add you and me together, subtract our clothing, divide your legs, and multiply.

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    This sig has absolutely no significance and serves only to take up screen space and waste the time of the reader.
  166. Re:Wrong URL, dude. No pretty pictures. by freqres · · Score: 1

    ..in his hand being jerked violently.

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    Rampant Ninja related crimes these days...Whitehouse is not the exception
  167. My brother's model by JimmytheGeek · · Score: 1

    He once posited that you basically figure out what attractiveness cohort you are in, and go across and start courting in the corresponding cohort of females. (If that's what you are after)

    He then determined that, actually, the men in the top 10% bracket were banging everything in sight. We're actually herd animals with dominant males having harems.

    I read "Waiting to Exhale", a chick book by an african american author. I was trying to broaden my horizens a bit from the white male science fiction usual suspects. (and maybe pick up some insight into female psychology) I had absolutely no sympathy for the female characters who were whining about the scarcity of absolutely perfect men, and the advantages taken by the very few who met all the criteria. There was nothing steller about any of them that would lead someone to forgoe the advantages they had. If I had dozens of not-that-special women clamoring for me, why pick just one? If you are that greedy and picky, you don't particularly deserve to be rewarded with faithfulness and devotion, you know?

    Fortunately for me, I found my asperger-friendly partner. 2.5 years hitched, several years of history before that. We fit. The big thing for me is feeling like her thought processes don't make her a different species. She's also cute. Makes good babies. Is very, very tolerant. We met through a chain of geek acquantences, one introducing me to the next, until we met. My strategy - hanging out with geeks and geek-friendly women - worked out for me. Hiding in my apartment, waiting for them to seek me out - not so much.

    The basic approach in the book makes some intuitive sense - try out different partners. It takes a while to figure out what will work for you, what traits you need in another person to be happy.

  168. Computer Science and sex is even better. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Learn all you ever wanted to know about the big O

  169. Try out 37 first? by alw53 · · Score: 1

    The problem with trying out 37 partners first is that all of them are playing the same game, and the odds are actually pretty low that you satisfy the woman's criteria and she satisfies yours. The model is just built from one person's point of view.

  170. the best math pickup line by BobVila · · Score: 1

    "Lets go back to my place, subtract our clothes, add a bed, divdie your legs, and multiply."

  171. summarily by dh003i · · Score: 1

    regarding granger-causality, sophistication cannot convert fallacy to principle. The same could be said of the entire mainstream economics profession.

  172. to clarify by dh003i · · Score: 1

    To clarify on the self-evident (a priori) truth of the action axiom, let me explain why it cannot be tested.

    In statistics, we often use a null hypothesis (default, H{0}) and an alternative hypothesis (alternative, H{a}). The null hypothsis is assumed true (I won't get into CI, alpha, or p-values, since they are not needed for this point). So, the statician would write out something like:

    H{0}: x >= 6
    H{a}: x 7

    However, the null and alternative hypothesis must be meaningful. This is something that textbooks don't even state, because it is so obvious. For example, you cannot state, or rather, you can state, but such would be meaningless:

    H{0}: x = sqrt(-4)
    H{a}: x != sqrt(-4)

    Saying sqrt(-4) is meaningless, because there is no such thing as a square root of -4, unless we get into imaginary numbers, such as 2i. You also can't say something like

    x = my weight
    H{0}: x > 0
    H{a}: x a priori truths.