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French Designer Ordered to Give up milka.fr
jmf writes "The BBC is running a story about French designer Milka Budumir, who has been ordered by a judge to give up milka.fr to Kraft Foods. You can read her side of the story (in French) at her site which also points to Kraft's side of the story. Kraft make very good chocolate, but they seem to be colour-blind: claiming that this website's colour is similar to this one's."
Thank god I didn't register that domain... I was going to... but I decided with http://www.mycrowsoft.com Crisis averted!
http://www.sandstorming.com
On top of everything: Their site is a Web-trap! No "back" button for me! Aaargh!
A)bort, R)etry or S)elf-destruct?
one old granny doing clothes touch'ups isn't what I would call a designer
I call BS. Find me one Kraft "chocolate" product where Chocolate or Cocoa butter is listed first ont he ingredients (i.e. the majority ingredient), or even then second or third one.... To be perfectly honest I have never seen a Kraft "chocolate" product, but I have seen their "cheese" prducts (and as a kid I ate them, but now they make me gag).
He's a *designer* and his website looks like *that*?!
OK, so first this 'kraft' company doesnt register domains for all their brands on the country tld's. Then, *YEARS* later they go "oops, it's alreay taken! What should we do? Oh, thats right! Sue the bastard. Who is the bastard anyway? Ah!".
So they got away with their neglection by fixing it with a lawsuit. Man, I thought France was about freedom and justice.
How much business could the website be generating for her in the first place?
She should appeal, then settle. Go to the new suggested domain (milkacouture.fr) and have Kraft link her from Milka.fr with a brief note about the settlement.
Irregardless, I hope she has the sense to register the alternative (milkacouture) just in case. It's currently unreserved and prime for a squatter.
So when did Kraft buy it? Does this mean it's gonna get worse?
Milka Budumir isn't a designer... She's just a seamstress who got her name / domain name given to her by her son for her birthday. It's not like she has a brand to defend ; OTOH she's not causing Kraft any harm.
.fr domain names, which were only available to registered companies with a trademark brand name (you had to show paperwork), which certainly explains this ruling.
.com .org .net .info .biz so don't scream if you haven't read the legal mumbojumbo above the "I agree" button!
Thing is, in France, trademark law will prevail when it comes to
Country TLDs ownership rules differ from country to country, unlike the usual
-- It's always darker before it goes pitch black.
german (food) companies are somewhat known to defend their trademarks. the most pathetic one was the trademark holder of "kinder" (= children) cracking down on everything with children in their product name. even funnier that courts rule in their favor most of the time too.
Those colour schemes are similar, in the sense that both of them make heavy
use of garish, clashing, high-saturation colours that DON'T GO TOGETHER.
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
Sincerely,
Cock A. Kola
it"s full of this
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There is no trademark infringement - clearly a case of trademark overreach.
Many businesses share the same name as others.
It tells you everything on http://wipo.org.uk/
... is delicious! I'm certainly not what you would call a chocoholic (actually, I often go for months without touching the stuff), but Milka has been one of my holiday cravings for over ten years. We used to bring back boxes of the stuff when returning from trips to central Europe.
It's probably just as well that it's difficult to find in the UK, as too much of it might take away some of the magic. Speaking of which, does anyone from the UK know of anywhere that stocks this particular brand of chocolate? I found it at the airport once, but that seems to have been a one off.
And I realise that this is almost completely off-topic, but what the hell...
Possibly just some fellows without any true skills making sure their jobs are safe.
In a way they are administrative personell. And the primary goal of any administration is to grow, because it has no jsutification for its existence in the first place.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
But why does the chocolate company NEED the French site ? Yes, it has a name of their product, but there are limited meaningful/nice/... names that can be used but millions of businesses around the world - just 'cos you are big doesn't mean that you can lay claim to all uses of what happens to be the name of your product(s) - follow that to conclusion and we will run out of names quite quickly. Every town in the UK seems to have an ABC taxi company - no problem at all.
Why not try to stop the use of the name outside the shop ? Well, they would fail; it is just that the judges are sufficiently confused to think that 'E-space' is different from 'physical-space' that they come up with these stupid decisions.
Question is, why didn't Kraft register milka.fr if it was so important to them? Big companies should just register all big top level domains so you don't get this nonsense later.
And if they don't they shouldn't be surprised someone else (legitemately) registered it, i think she's entitled to keep it because it's her name and Kraft was too cheap to register it in the first place.
Sample this!
Kraft also own a wide range of other chocolate brands, including Toblerone, Cote d'Or (one of my personal favourites, especially the one with pecans) and Suchard.
Worst department name ever?
Cadbury isn't American its English. http://www.cadbury.co.uk/EN/CTB2003/about_chocolat e/history_cadbury/
Personally I don't think this judgement goes nearly far enough. How can she get away with such blatant infringement of their trademark. Fancy trying to pass herself off as a chocolate bar. I think she should be forced to change her name immediately.
Don't put off until tomorrow what you can leave until the day after.
Kraft make very good chocolate
/.rs who have never eaten real food...um, the difference between working with OS X and Windoze 1.0. There. Thats stark enough!
Ummmm, wtf?
Kraft dont even make food let alone 'good chocolate'.
This is what real chocolate looks like; and the taste, as compared to the garbage made by Hersheys, Kraft and the like is like the difference between, oh, how can we describe it to the unitiated
ATH0 Bitcoin: 1DnwFLXczVZV8kLJbMYoheUrpqHesjxrSi
Besides, you Mom taught you a useful trade - you've got to be thankful for that, huh?
(Many apologies - but your comment came closer to troll than joke, and I just wanted to point out that it is not nice to be cruel to people... as you can see from being on the receiving end. It's always surprising to see a low UID
I boycotting milka chocolate from now on and I intend to send an e-mail (or possibly regular mail) to inform them of that.
Mod parent down. Arrogant poster made two mistakes: gender (its in the headline) and doesn't know someone can design something other than websites.
At the moment their "friendly" solution is to pay for the costs of taking the domain milka.fr from the lady and offering her milkacouture.fr, which is useless to her, because her clients don't know it. She also does not understand why they complain, because she did not do them any damage. Milka claims there is a link between the ladies site and www.food.fr, whish sells pizzas in Valence.
She also says that her site will not lead away internetters who look for the chocolate company, because she only appears as 41th on search engines.
She concludes to say that KRAFT never wanted the best for both parties, and only wanted her to give up the domain name, and only after a struggle of 2 years they are prepared to reimburse her the costs she has made.
I've been using Gandi.net ever since they appeared on /. w/ their "you own the domain" clause. How's this affect my ownership? Can some French company lay claim to the domains that I am using if they just happen to have the same name trademarked? I mean I bought the "house" in France. Can some Frenchie take it because their name is above the door?
The owner of the armani.it domain, a stamp maker from Milan (if I remember correctly) was forced, after years of legal battle, to resign the domain to the fashion designer (Armani).
Search on google "timbrificio armani" if you are interested and you can read italian.
Ciao, Renato
I think french designers should be forced to give up everything, just on principle.
Nothing against the french, mind. Just their designers. That bloody Jean Paul Galtier one needs to be the first to go. I mean, did you SEE The Fifth Element? I can never, ever get those minutes of my life back, man. That opera scene will be with me until the day I die.
Curiosity was framed. Ignorance killed the cat.
Ack! Text-what-follows-the-pointy-thing! Gag. Buy her out, boys.
Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules.
I for one welcomed our new Ruby Rhod overlords.
Kraft make very good chocolate, but they seem to be colour-blind
This is a small and not too painful side-effect of PC-ness taken to it's logical conclusion.
As long as they don't become smell-inhibited and feed met moo-poo, telling me it's pure Alpine chocolate...
I read the claims of Mme. Milka, who is just a tailor in a city. I also saw articles in http://www.liberation.fr. This is all together a bit ridiculous. The Mme Milka web site is a teen-ager web site, the potential customers are ultra-local only.
She claims I am known by my customers as "Milka" not "Milka Couture", so I can not change my domain name to milkacouture. People will look for "milka" not "milka couture"... She explains later web site rank at a far 41 in a search...
Summary: She is unknown, probably does not need visibility on the net for customers are ultra-locals, her site is anyway badly ranked. And she is fighting for that? I name that a time-waster! She wasting her, my, milka folks time.
Don't get me wrong, I also read the summon sent by Kraft to her. It is was highly aggressive, legaly speaking, with ultimatom and all the legal BS. I'd say the legal advise was very bad for more likely, a gentle phone call could have solved the problem. The lawyer used heavy artillery for nothing ! And now... it back-fires on the brand. Well done mister-legal: you got ++bucks in your pocket and annoyed everyone.
Z.
Milka Budimir.
/. because his "nom de plume" is Taco and they wan't it. "In fact its owned by "Technical Advisors COmpany" and looks like pre-eaten tacos."
She can't even use her NAME as a web site. Where's the justice in that?
Kraft might as well tell Taco he can't run
The internet tries to flatten too many regionalisms into too few TLDs. Its a stupid system of nomenclature.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
This isn't trolling, I am honestly interested in what everyone's POV is. It seems like the common consensus on /. is that:
cyber squatting = bad
as well as
corporations protect its name against 'the little guy' = bad too.
It seems to me that the line you draw in the sand between squatting and name defense is the idea of content, no? So, is it the opinion that we get judges involved in deciding if, a squatters website that has a lot of links to online poker sites, search engines etc. etc. doesn't qualify as ligitimant?
This is, of course, UK Safeways (now Morrisons Group).
Patent the idea of websites using hideous color schemes?
You'll make a mint!
...buying up everything with the word milka in it I think. I'm tempted to buy milka.ws on principle and give it to her. Anyone speak any French and want to sort it out? :)
People that believe in their opinions don't post AC.
"Ride the 2000GB wave!". I'm a bit offended by this, I mean, tsunami was only a few months ago and I'm still grieving for my lost ones. Can we have a bit of sensitivity, please?
You should have been a lawyer during the original trademark dispute between Apple Computer and Apple Records...
Oops.
Yeah, two different companies doing two different things using a common/generic name "Apple" and it still wound up in the courts.
I think you do not really understand the intricacies of trademarks.
--- I wish I could hear the soundtrack to my life. That way I'd know when to duck.
near-top level Domain names are for companies, organizations, corporations, or persons.
NOT for Product names, be they medicines, foods, movies.
getting a domain name should involve faxing a copy of an offical document, such as drivers license/birth cert., business license, charitable organization license, etc appropriate for the domain in question.
I think the move is totally fair - its about time this cyber-squatter got ejected.
/. community feel moved to complain about this perfectly reasonable move? I don't know, it makes me want to stop reading.
If he had legitimate reasons for putting up his site, why did he make it the EXACT same shade of yellow as the other site?
And the
And now I come to think about it, why does Slashdot make it website an exact copy of Microsoft's? Can't they stand on their own two feet without feeling that they have to copy every last pixel?
Some years ago, before even the big dot-com boom and before the net was even popular, I had somehow registered www.gant.com. I mean, this was in the registration infancy when there were just a handfull of web sites. I honestly don't even remember registering it and at the time I though the Web was going to be a fad...ok, I never claimed to be a visionary. Besides, IRC-Gopher-Usenet-FTP WAS the Internet to me...again, at the time.
Anyway, to make a long story longer...the lawyers from Gant Shirts got ahold of me some years later demanding I release all claims on gant.com to them...but of course, I didn't mention that I didn't even remember registering it...but why muck up the water? So I wrote back and said, hey, it's my fricken name! How could I part with my name! Then I started channeling Arthur Millers "The Crucible" with "Because it is my name! Because I cannot have another in my life! Because I lie and sign myself to lies! Because I am not worth the dust on the feet of them that hang! How may I live without my name? I have given you my soul; LEAVE ME MY NAME!"
They cut a check for an even grand and I found I could part with my name pretty easily after all.
"Leo Fender was in a 'state of grace' when he designed the Stratocaster." -- Paul Reed Smith
Milka Chocolate bars...now I can view them on the website in full color splendor.
You skipped the part about how it's a "word" created in America in the 20th century, from a blend of "irrespective" and "regardless." The "ir-" prefix and "-less" suffix are redundant. You also fail to mention that Webster's recommends it not be used. Dictionary.com is less kind, calling it a "blunder."
This is an example of a made up word that does not have a correct usage, but American dictionaries put it in because so many people make the mistake. Because it isn't correct usage, many people will make possibly unfounded assumptions about your intellect.
I would think that the guild of seamstresses would put up a fight over this... oh, she's the sewing kind of seasmstress? They never bother with them.
So, then, I'll just add that to the list of reasons to boycott Kraft products.
You can't take the sky from me...
sarcasm. and btw UIDs don't mean shit. The first slashdotters were mostly trolls. Hence the whole reason for a UID in the first place.
The best education consists in immunizing people against systematic attempts at education. - Paul Feyerabend
"... it had owned the brand long before Mrs Budimir, 58, was born." It is not uncommon for brands to have family or first names. Doesn't anyone find this worrying?
This is no different then stealing a physical object.
They exploited the courts to take away a domain name they know damn good and well was not rightfully theirs.
I'll be sure not to purchase Kraft products anymore, that's for sure. I don't buy from cowardly theives.
(That's one 25+ year customer ya just lost, Kraft, hope it's worth it because I sincerely doubt I'm the only one.)
You can't go wrong with Ritter Sport. All kinds of Schokolade goodness in 100g squares...
/drool
I want to drag this out as long as possible. Bring me my protractor.
There are usually a lot of people that share the same name. My last name is uncommon in the US (German in origin) yet I can name one other person in the same city, and another famous, that share it.
Though I'm not for corps bullying people on domain names the "It's my name too" defense just doesn't hold up, given that for just about any name, even uncomon ones, you can find others that share it.
I think this case is pretty stupid, however let's not get overly sympathetic just because it happens ot be her name. Yes, it's her's and probably thousands of others as well.
Philip Morris used to own Kraft (and Milka).
In 2001 they split the company, and now Altria Group owns both.
translation from kraft
- Within the framework of a friendly solution, our company does not claim any sum with Mrs. Budimir. In a new mail addressed on last 17 November, we proposed to take responsibility for our the expenses related on the deposit and the administration of the site "milka.fr" of its creation so far.
- We also proposed to Mrs. Budimir to take responsibility for our the deposit of the domain name "milkacouture.fr" which corresponds to the sign of its stores. This name would guarantee to Mrs. Budimir to continue to develop its activities and to inform its customers without creating confusion with our mark.
Milka Budimir's response
This proposal is entirely unfavourable for me because my customers, local
primarily, knows me under the name of Milka, and that the possible ones
customers would have by no means the reflex to seek "milkacouture".
My response
If her customers are local namely those who are in walking distance of her store.. then why does she need a website at all. Unless her website is more about her store then the store itself. Therefore a change in domain name will not hurt her financially at all.
The best education consists in immunizing people against systematic attempts at education. - Paul Feyerabend
Kraft was owned by notorious tobacco company Philip Morris , until it was transferred to a "shell" parent company called Altria, no doubt to escape all the bad press associated with the Philip Morris brand..
London's finest organic fairtrade coffee
Last I checked with myself, pink was similar to purple. They are not the same or anywhere near the same shade, but even on a palette, they are very close.
I like to order everything over the Internet. For example I order Thai food over the Internet, from the restaurant which is no 100m away from me.
It's bookmarked, eMail adresses are stored in Outlook, even my mobile knows their URL, it's just a matter of comfort. Perhaps it's the same for customers of Mme Milka?
-Tino
Nah, if she were an American I wouldn't even have to suggest it. It'd already be done. But, she's French, so I guess she wouldn't stoop so low...
btw, I checked, and no there currently is no www.kraftsucks.com -- so save yourself the typing...or, let the squatting commence!
This space intentionally left (almost) blank.
Since I've discovered Dove's milk chocolate, all other brands are a let-down. Plus, it's not that expensive.
Tell Kraftfood that they should behae another way : Here or domainadmin@krafteurope.com
Too bad the woman will have to give up her site. She of course is not going to win because she's a peon without any value, where as the corperation is a huge multinational giant that dictates whatever it wants. Of course it could be a case of cybersquatting, but it could also be legit. And if it is.... Even more so important, that this woman's name and website be protected.
So, Helga/Her Frau "Holly Hobby" is a massive threat to kraft? Well, I have a BIGGER THREAT to you, kraft.
I am wondering what effect it will have on the outcome if worldwide people get off their ASSES and vocally, actively boycott kraft (lower-casing/deprecation of your name INTENTIONAL/unrelenting; come and SUE me, kraft).
For the first time in friggin' a YEAR or two, I got off my ass to buy a box of Macaroni, the ONLY brand I stick to for macaroni and cheese since I loathed all institutionalized crap from public schools, and upon my return to the US I CRAVED like HELLL for kraft Macaroni and Cheese. Though it's no longer $0.50 for a box, I paid some $0.99 or $1.15 for each of two boxes I bought. I cooked one a few days ago, and looked forward to eating the second. Now, I'll likely just dump it in the can, not even DONATE it. I was PROUD of Kraft for having on the cover of one box a Black kid, 13 years old, and by chance, the second had a caucasian kid, 8 years old.
(As an aside, I understand that over 40% of the world's chocolate comes from Africa, the rest from elsewhere, and very little of it from the US. And...
I find it interesting that the ASIAN stores I frequent have kids of COLOR on their diaper and food products, but in certain upscale places (Santana Blow) are insensitive or blase about it. Maybe that's why Malt Liquor makers market their higher-alcohol-content, taller cans to unemployment-ravaged neighborhoods because the alcohold content is appealing to homeless and drug-abusing persons...)
End of Aside...
FGS, "kraft", Milka is her NAME. She is running what looks to be a Holly Hobby stitch shop, a far cry from chocolate or milk or cheese. It's NOT as if she's running a goddam EasyBake Oven shop called Milka & Fleur di Lis. Such dolt-head corporate lawyers who are pursuing this line of "nake aggression" should be reprimanded fiercely. I guess this is what happens when a country produces far more lawyers than the world can sustain. Wait, no, I guess they are a virtual human shield of sorts for all those roughshot or greedy corporations that presume it's their manifest destiny to rule the world and dope the consumer.
The typical European is probably blase about the matter and far more astute and wordly than the (hmm, I may be stepping on an "intellect/intellectual land mine" here) US-created/based/run Kraft corporation dolts in charge. (But, isn't the name Kraft orignally from Deutscheland? Many 'merkuns, after emigrating to from Europe/Ireland/Germany/etc to the US changed their names for religious-connectioon, racial, oppression, and other reasons, but it appears kraft had nothing to fear, until Granny and her needles and Holly Hobby Kit arrived on scene.)
Protecting a corporate name or brand should have limits. One set of HUMANS, fans of John Denver, named their son and placed "John Denver" as his middle name. So long as he is not actively becoming a musician or music distributor or doing something that OBVIOUSLY and egregiously tries to "ride on the coattails" of John Denver's success, kraft.
Any reasonable, sensible, astute person would NEVER confuse the granny and her neadles and threads and bolts of fabric for a cocoa, chocolate, or milk franchise.
Therefore, kraft, I will relentlessly not only NOT buy anymore kraft products, I will TAKE them to the CASH REGISTER and then JUST BEFORE purchasing... no, hmm, for greater effect, I will wait until AFTER purchasing the damned macaroni or other kraft producct, I will refund it and then tell the cashier WHY.
I'm gonna blog your ass at the register. Seems guerilla warfare is all America can respond to, so seems you need to be driven "Ape Shit".. I'll bet even the normal French, German, Swede and others will get a kick out of this.
Moreover, I will look at lables of ANYTHING I eat and exclude all products owned by or handled by kraft, except for "blogging at the cash register".
Wake up, kraft! Leave Holly Hobby alone! She's not THREAT to you or your so-s
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
As an avid consumer of fine chocolate, I feel compelled to join the chorus: Milka doesn't make any "very good" chocolate that I know of, even if you only look at supermarket-variety chocolate. Lindt, for one, is much better; Valrhona is light years ahead, and I could talk for hours about the fine handcrafted chocolates you can find in many small shops here in Italy.
After this coup, Milka the chocolate is forever out of my shopping list (as if it wasn't already), along with everything else from Kraft.
"See, they're McDonald's... I'm McDowell's. They got the Golden Arches, mine is the Golden Arcs. They got the Big Mac, I got the Big Mick. We both got two all-beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles and onions, but their buns have sesame seeds. My buns have no seeds."
End of line..
Does it run GNU/Linux... looks like it does...
Verdict
I like suggestions, but I don't like contributing towards them.
If I am not wrong, there is a subdomain .tm.fr for trade marks estabilished in France, so there is even more tenuous ground for Kraft. But we saw what happened in Italy with armani.it, formerly owned by a Luca Armani who has an (office) stamp shop and who was forced to resign it and to get timbrificio.com instead.
Uggh, typos and incomplete thoughts...
...he should be allowed to be addressed (or, undressed, depending upon what kind of friends he has...) as "JD", Johnny, Denvy, or whatever he wants. So long as he is not wantonly defiling or defaming the REAL John Denver or not trying to bring to light some matter of corruption, murder, or something of which the public ought to be apprised.
Fixins' and extensions of thought...
------
Para 5: "alcohol", not "alcohold" in "Maybe that's why Malt Liquor makers market their higher-alcohol-content, taller cans to unemployment-ravaged neighborhoods because the alcohold content is appealing to homeless and drug-abusing persons...)"
-------
Para 5, incomplete thought: The malt liquor companies all over low-income neighborhoods, selling their liquid wares in predominantly "minority-occupied/settled land". They are not there because of Santana Blow (Santana Row), but, of the Safeway and other stores in the so-called upscale area, I feel are run by some district managers who seem to be quite ignorant of or blase about telling their suppliers" to display products whose faces represent some minority buying power. Blacks spend over a BILLION DOLLARS a year in the US, many far out of proportion to their income. Imagine if all minorities (even some Asians, as not ALL Chinese and Vietnamese fit the nerd, engineer, dentist or lawyer mold some of their parents try to force them into...) saved instead of parted with that money. Now, we've got dubya running around trying to dupe the public into retirement plans that bail out the government and his cronies and YET we have not ONE program in high schools or college that is MANDATORY so that people entering the workforce and make sound, rational, informed decisions about retirement planning, insurance of other kinds, and so forth. Now THAT'S LEADERSHIP: Do as I SAY, not as you or I know would be better for you.
----
Para 7: In, "Wait, no, I guess they are a virtual human shield of sorts for all those roughshot or greedy corporations that presume it's their manifest destiny to rule the world and dope the consumer." replace "VIRTUAL" with "VIRAL"
Also, correct "nake agression" to read "naked agression".
Correct "roughshot" to read "roughshod".
----------
Para 9: "So long as he is not actively becoming a musician or music distributor or doing something that OBVIOUSLY and egregiously tries to "ride on the coattails" of John Denver's success, kraft."
Para 10: neadles? umm, "needles", not neadles...
Para 12: "refund them", not "refund it"
Para 14: "Moreover, I will look at labels ", not "Moreover, I will look at lables"
Para 15: "She's no THREAT", not "She's not THREAT"
There are maybe 4 more typos, but I have to return to other (more) "pressing" matters.
NO! IANAL, and IANGFBAL, either.
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
kudos.
Check out this site.
This guy set up a not-for-profit site about a local shopping mall. 2 years later, the developer of the mall sued him for his domain name. The conduct of the lawyers who sued him is disgusting.
http://www.milka.dk/
Why in the hell did they name their daughter Milk?
Hmm, at first I thought this was a troll. With all the corrections though, I think you might actually care. So, I'll bite. Honestly, as much as you write about it, I think boycotting Kraft should be your job. People always say to just do something you have fun at.
Also, please don't go and buy a Kraft product just to turn around and explain to the poor cashier why you are returning it. I can almost certainly guarantee you they won't give half a shit and then you are just needlessly inconveniencing others (the cashier and all the people who could care less behind you).
It's like the people who protest the Iraq war on street corners, all you do is have people who agree with you honk (no net gain) and annoy the people who dont agree with you (again, no net gain). Save your protests for the people who can actually change things. People who organize protests have no clue how much they are diluting the power of it.
Most people just don't care about checking all the labels of the food they buy for how much saturated fat they have much less who makes it. The limited audience of people who read your article changes nothing about Kraft and their day to day activities. Please, go and protest in front of their headquarters if you really care so much about it, or at least take it to http://www.protest.net/. Slashdot, home of basement protesters everywhere *sigh*
Hershey and other American brands of chocolate are awful and I have no idea why. British chocolate is also bad. All good brands you can find in US stores are imported from Switzwerland, Germany or Belgium. The best brands are from Switerland; no big surprise here, the Swiss people invented solid chocolate, including the milk chocolate, a hundred and thirty years ago.
Chocolate originates in America, I dont understand why they cant make it better. Why dont they reverse enginneer the Swiss chocolate?
what part of .fr don't you understand ?
So she has to give up the domain? That is like IBM happening to use a trademark similar to MS's and therefore MS sues and get to claim all of IBM's assets, stock, and property. Even if there is a trademark dispute, which I don't think, the only think that should happen is a change required. If not then maybe a money fine, If that can't occur then assest should be taken, though Milka decision, to pay it off.
Why don't you guys have friends or journals?
From the French domain registration site (translated):
Avantslash: low-bandwidth mobile slashdot.
You have the consequence right but the cause(s) wrong.
Apparently the suit was filed some time ago.
Back then the site was different, though it's not the same color, but not that far away from the milka.de color.
There are no atheists when recovering from tape backup.
Repeat - "Many businesses share the same name as others" - this is in every country.
If you read the http://wipo.org.uk/ website you will see.
is what not to do.
You'd think they would not want to show that line, but would rather show only the line displaying what you should do. (I.e., describe what not to do in fairly clear terms, but give the code showing what you should do.)
Of course, from what I can gather from that web-site, what you should do seems to depend on what your server is. Perhaps w3c should try to make it easier to do the right thing.
Just my $0.02 worth.
(I also find it funny that this coincides with the Google story.)
Ben Hocking
Need a professional organizer?
What kind of loser trademark lawyer lets a chocolatebar trademark trump their client's right to work under that word in the fashion trade? Especially when the word is a nonsense word in the domain (.fr) under which it's registered, and a minor variant on a generic (milk) related to the prior registrant in another (.de)? There's zero possibility of consumers confusing that seamstress with the candy. And zero possibility of that lawyer getting another gig from anyone with any sense.
--
make install -not war
Kraft had suggested that Mrs Budimir launch a new website under the domain name www.milkacouture.fr...
Mrs. Budimir should suggest that Kraft re-launch their own website, under the name www.butthead-astronomers-chocolate.fr.
Some kid making a comment that is lame and off-topic isn't what I would call insightful.
"I've said it before and I'll say it again, Democracy doesn't work!"
Sorry, my point was that the French always come up with crazy legal requirements, rules, regulations that just make everyone else's lives harder. Screw the French, we don't need their fries, bread, or toast anyway!
There a dark chocolate bar, "Schwarts Herr?" (It's name reminds of of "Black Man") that is truly excellent, and it's just an every-day candy bar over there. Amazing! So, know any good German companies that need a good Oracle DBA/Unix Sysop?
It's in French! We (in the US) should make her publish in English. After all, I can get to her site from the US.
Yeah you're a troll, but I'll bite.
Crap like this has been happening in the states for years, so it's not like the french are the first to do this. Who has the crazy patent law? takes it up the rear from big oil? and tobacco? and pharmaceuticals? France is not exactly at the peak of that list now is it.
I'm off to McD's for some freedom fries, I feel dirty now and have to repent my un-patriotic ways.
I mean, personally I confuse clothes and chocolates all the time!
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
You are correct that what you should do depends on your server. With Apache, you can use RewriteRules to generate the appropriate redirect headers. If you're using some sort of server-processed filetype like PHP, you can specify additional HTTP headers there.
The key is that you shouldn't redirect with HTML. You should redirect with HTTP. I'm not sure how the W3C could make it any easier than it already is to do redirects properly, though.
"You're older than you've ever been, and now you're even older."
You're a manager of something...
Nope.
And nope again.
I see here we want to defend the small one against the big greedy one. Fair enough. I did not not make myself clear enough: Milka chocolate & co were 1) aggressive 2) too late with Ms Milka Tailor. Too bad for them. No questioning that.
My question is "is all that hassle worth it ?" Here is an insight from http://www.milka.fr/
She tells us seriously that it is not fair to claim that her website could be confused with milk choc one because the colour is purple... bright not medium. No joking. Do you realise Ms Milka went through a 2 years legal procedures for that ?! Oh vanity we love you! (Ironic)
Really think about it. Is it worth it? Her business is local, her business is tailoring not PR-ing, she is not intending to expend market so... wtf fight for a shit web site with all that hassle ? What does she have to loose by changing to milkacouture.fr ? (ok: milka chocolate should pay the migration)
Someone who's ready to waste two years of life for that, makes me think... I become sceptical. I feel there could be a genuine attempt from her to abuse a well known brand name, or to get a bit of noise done.
I don't defend the small one because he is small, but because he is right. I don't feel (only MO) she is that right. I feel Kraft was just one more big wrong bully. Everyone's a loser in this story.
A storm in hot milka chocolate pot. Bye bye. Z.
Here is a link http://www.badcorp.com/hierarchy.cfm?SearchType=Ch oosen&search=8723000&action=search
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
Are they going to go after daim.fr too?
Remember, there are no stupid questions. But there are a lot of inquisitive idiots.
America has other brands of chocolate, you know. Girardelli (however you spell that) comes to mind, i believe they have a production facility in San Francisco.
...it's really a sad day for America when we require a goddamn ACT OF CONGRESS to make our DVD players work properly. ~
...should give Mike Rowe (Soft) a call. I'm sure they have plenty to talk about ;)
More proof that no matter what you say about freedom and jusitce in America, we are still FAR better off than the rest of the world. I reckon this wouldn't happen in any US court, wasn't there a law passed that said a person can calim right to a domain if it is their personal name?
So, I may get severely modded for this, but I have to comment.
/.) to show how the law constantly supports big business, and who gives a fuck who and how many individuals they hurt?
Kraft is owned by the same people who own one of the most well known cigarette manufacturers/distributors in the world.
Isn't the whole point of this article (Like many here at
Are tobacco companies not the absolute poster-children for this? I'm looking at the pack I'm trying to quit with right now, and the surgeon general tells me I've got approximately a 75% chance of dying young and horribly mutilated if I continue to use these products. Yet still they are nearly the most popular, easiest-to-find product in the world. Yet they are still always smoked by the 'cool guys' in the movies and even cartoons our kids watch...
So, to say that the bigot company Kraft; who has legally been allowed--NO, Encouraged!--to terrorize some poor old seamstress off of her Rightfully Owned website; is owned by the even larger more widely known, bastard, make-money-off-your-suffering tobbacco company would be one of the most insightful replies posted here.
Certainly it deserves a better ranking than some guy who pasted a poor translation of the page. After all, if we're all supposed to be geeks here, shouldn't we already be aware of Google's 'translate this page'?
I back your point puke76, and I think it's one of the most pertinent statements here. To the Mod: Re-Mod his post!
And there's my 2 cents.
A couple fans told me that my last journal entry was mint; give it a shot. Hope you like.
Kraft-Suchard chocolate, Milka included, is mass-manufactured and *full* of sugar. It appeals to the masses, but it's not "very good".
That is all.
Christopher Harrison
In addition, Kraft is owned by Philip Morris^H^H^H Altria, the worlds largest (?) and perhaps one of the most aggressive tobbaco companies.
Alas, they own quite a lot of food companies here in Sweden too, including the no 1 mainstream chocolates company, Marabo.
If you prefer not supporting tobbaco plugging (and bully corporatism in this case too), have a look at
http://www.tobacco.org/Resources/00pmbrands.html
Easiest way around this would be to force companies to only own one URL--- a .com specifically---and not every combination of .org, .net, etc.
My first name happens to be the same as a famous lighting company. If I had happened to register the domain: Dana.com, why should they be able to take it away from me? Seems to me that we're giving corporations more freedoms and rights then PEOPLE!
My last name, though rare, happens ot be the same as a farily famous TV writer. If he registered a corporation with his last name. why should I have to give my domain up to him?Seems to me that posession is 9/10ths of the law...and the Johnny come lately should have to suffer, not the early bird...
Doresn't thatcount for ANYTHING these days? Seems to me that we're giving COROPRATIONS more freedoms and rights then PEOPLE!!
And you call that cow manure chocolate?
What's weird is that in US all brand-name chocolatiers make crap. All of them. After years of living here, I still fail to understand why.
Serban
What does she have to loose [sic] by changing to milkacouture.fr ?
She has something important to lose. It's called "freedom of expression". Some people consider defending their rights important.
She tells us seriously that it is not fair to claim that her website could be confused with milk choc one because the colour is purple... bright not medium. No joking. Do you realise Ms Milka went through a 2 years legal procedures for that ?! Oh vanity we love you! (Ironic)
Why is it vain to oppose corporate control of the legal use of a colour? If it ever becomes legal for corporations to control other peoples businesses because of the colours they use, it won't be long until all the colours are bought up for that purpose. Just imagine what life would be like:
"I'm sorry, sir, you're selling an object that is coloured #674, Cherry Red. You're violating our trademark; you can license it from us on our terms, or we can sue you and put you out of business. Your call."
I don't defend the small one because he is small, but because he is right
So far, your argument seems to be that since the "small one" has a lot more to lose than the big one (in terms of hassle, struggle to defend , he shouldn't defend his rights. I disagree.
--
AC
The tld .il, to my knowledge, means Israel, not Ireland.
.
A more important thing: When I tried the link milka.co.il, I have been redirected to kraft.com immediately
So Kraft Foods does not have even the shabbiest web page under this domain? That means they are not using it actually... Somebody could claim it for, say, a little car repair (or tailor) shop near Jerusalem, and rightly so.
(I hope Milka appeals and wins the right to keep her name.)
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Y funny how products taste different in different countries, I was in NY a few years ago and all the familar brands were there, but they tasted like the sickly hershey chocolate.... (btw I am from UK, and in Europe our chocolate wouldn't even count as chocolate because of the high vegetable fat content..!)
milka.cx
some brave soul, fire up links and see if that even exists. If not, imagine goatse + chocolate and watch the lawsuits roll in.
SAILING MISHAP
Perhaps it is the same reason that all name-brand bread is foul oversweetened dry sponge. I think I miss European bread more than I miss European chocolate. I'll say one thing: the beer situation is infinitely better than it was 15 years ago. There are plenty of readily available excellent brews.
-S
I don't know why you were moderated down.
Ghirardelli makes great chocolate. I'm willing to bet money that it's only self-hating Americans and European snobs who would deny this (likely without having a taste of their pure milk chocolate varieties, sans toffee chips or caramel, which I consider cheap sweetening fillers).
I've had chocolate from all over Western Europe, while IN Europe, as well as some of Japan's more interesting varieties. The Ghirardelli milk chocolate recipe is still my favorite, and is my personal benchmark for balancing between the various flavors inherent to chocolate of all varieties. It's just great.
Let's say we're dealing with John Doe at State U. While a high-school student he took advantage of the free web-hosting services of hypothetical-hosting.net. He has a decent home-page that he's spent far too much time on and when he got to State U., he was given a (small) place where his student web-page resides. He wants users who access that page to be sent to his already established home-page at XYZ.net. NTS, he doesn't have admin priviliges, and isn't computer-saavy enough to figure out what server is being run, or how to do anything with that knowledge if he did (it doesn't take much knowledge to set up a home-page at hypothetical-hosting.net). Now, do you really expect him to figure out how to redirect with HTTP, when he can use a simple redirect in HTML?
If you think John Doe is based on me, you'd be only partly correct. I don't have as many excuses as him, and I'm too old to have had a home-page in high-school. However, I do have two accounts on two different servers, and the lesser one (in my opinion) redirects to the better one. I am using HTML redirect, but I'll defend myself by saying that at least I use a 2 second-delay, so that people can relatively easily use the back button. My reason for using redirect is simple - redirect is simple and it works. I'm not proud of it, but since very few people are likely to access the lesser page, I don't see why I should figure out how to make the Apache stuff work (assuming I even can without Admin priviliges). I think my time would be better spent on more important things, like reading /.!
P.S. In FireFox, the redirect page seems to get absorbed after redirecting. If I go to page Example1.html, and then to ExampleRedirect.html, which redirects me to Example2.html, my back button takes me immediately to Example1.html.
Ben Hocking
Need a professional organizer?
I too do love bread and, fortunately, in the Bay Area there are several decent bakeries, making simple and flavorful breads.
:-)
Who knows, bad chocolate may be a blessing in US, everything you eat is so much "enriched" that you have to fight to avoid getting overweight
Serban
She has something important to lose. It's called "freedom of expression".
Here we go... An other me-me-me. Because you have the freedom does not mean you are right. Because you can dump anything on the web, doesn't mean it is justified to do so. So many people believe naively they are entitled to have their word because they can have it. It is slightly subtler: because you have something smart to say/expose, then you may consider voicing it. The net has now an infinite amount of garbage (like blogs) just because the technical means exists. That is the reason I use the word vanity. Freedom of expression is not only the ability to have a voice, but the duty of making sense.
I mentioned the arguments of colours to point out the fact that some aspect of this dispute are rather petty. She was discussing about slight variations of shades... Using fuzzy qualifier.
In our case, let's face it : she was probably put into buying a domain just because of fashion. Fair enough. But when it comes to a two years fight: that motivation is thin. This woman just did not identify where her priorities are. Regarding what she claims she does, it does not make sense to me. Now: I will not take a stick and blame or force MO onto someone else. I do not promote dictatorship. :-) I just see a the end of the day: this story brings nothing to no one, and the content of the fight is actually void.
An early post in the thread said it: she should appeal, and settle with the (too late and hypocrite but welcomed) proposition of Kraft. As it could have been done at an early stage. All that for that... It's indeed a storm in a hot milka chocolate pot.
Z.
I haven't tried Milka and don't know about it, but Kraft also makes Cote d'Or, which is pretty good.
My favorite happens to be Ritter Sport. Fortunately, I they sell this in some places in the United States now (for a significantly higher price than in Germany).
. So many people believe naively they are entitled to have their word because they can have it. It is slightly subtler: because you have something smart to say/expose, then you may consider voicing it.
Really?!? And if the King/Church/Grand Inquisititor doesn't think what you've written is "smart", then you may not even "consider voicing" it? We had that grim state of affairs in Europe for a long, long time. We called that time the Dark Ages: it was the worst period in recent human history.
I mentioned the arguments of colours to point out the fact that some aspect of this dispute are rather petty. She was discussing about slight variations of shades... Using fuzzy qualifier.
Kraft trademarked one precise shade of purple. If the shade of purple she uses isn't Kraft's purple, their trademark doesn't apply. So the exact shade of purple is very important to her legal position. She's talking about her case, so she mentions it. That's not "being petty"; it's a valid critique of the opposing position.
let's face it : she was probably put into buying a domain just because of fashion.
Who are you to read her mind, and tell others what her probable motivations were?
this story brings nothing to no one, and the content of the fight is actually void.
This case involves both freedom of expression (trademarks of colours are being upheld(!), with the outcome risking eminent domain takings (court officials directly interfering in a lease for a name directory listing, and re-assigning that lease to a third party in order to promote trade).
If those matters don't count as a suitable topic for Your Rights Online, then what, exactly, does count?
--
AC