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Software Patents Stopped in India
piyushranjan writes "Indian parliament deleted the section from the patents bill regrading the software patents as left parties prevailed over the Government on the issue. This may be a major victory for free software foundation(fsf) which has been lobbying hard against the bill."
all move^Woutsource ourselves to india now!
No one ever says, 'I can't read that ASCII E-mail you sent me.'
But also our president has openly suggested to our schools, universities, defence and government organizations to switch to open source. He's one president I really admire. A very learned and very humble man.
Find a job you like and you will never work a day in your life.
Can companies move their bussiness their to avoid patents in the own country?
We have begun the process of outsourcing your freedom! The stormtroopers will be by shortly to collect any remaining freedoms, so we can send them to a foreign country where it will be cheaper to maintain them. In the meantime, sit tight, don't go anywhere, and please refrain from speaking with other citizens or posting to the Interweb with those blog thingies. Don't like it? Maybe you should have spoken up before the process began, like they did in India. Have a nice day.
Thanks,
The Government
Free yourself. Everything else will follow.
I've spoken with government official in my country (New Zealand) about software patents and they just don't care! They just fold to the big companys.
I want to move to India! I love Indian food and culture already, and now they get to be free of software patents! Not fair.
When will governments in the western world start doing what the people want, and not what only the rich and powerful want!
They have nothing to gain from adopting software patents.
I never vote for anyone. I always vote against.
-- W.C. Fields
I'm an Indian.
As much as I hate these left parties (they're real dumbasses), for once they have done the right thing here.
Left parties doing something actually GOOD for economy. Who knew...
Hi Well,atleast in this sense,India is far better than EU.We got it done without much hassles. :))) .......
And spare some time to go thru http://fsf.org.in/
piyush chaapis........
Like it or not as an American coder, the code coming from India is getting better. Sorry, but that's what happens with practice fellas....
Couple that with healty dose of the encouragement of innovation, and we just took one right on the chin.
The idiot jokes about off-shoring. Bloody hell take it like the americans we know, not pussy-ass whiners!. Innovate, work hard, and show 'em that american coders are better. But please stop the offshoring jokes...
Let's hope that this sets an example that many others will follow.
Free Firefox news reader.
Being part of a software startup whose value creation is closely tied to software that we create, this creates some anxiety. But I believe, in the long term this is a good precedent to have.
If software patents aren't legal in India, would a company over there be able to fearlessly provide web services/applications that infringe on US patents?
e.g. could a company over there build a search engine using Google's patented page rank algorithm with out having to pay an licensing fee?
If so, it would seem that India would be an ideal place for most such companies, as they can operate over there with out fear of patent litigation. Also, hopefully something like this would put pressure on the US to reform our current system in order for local companies to be more competitive.
Where open source software are not threatened by patent laws. Right?
The government was required by the WTO to adopt a new patent regime in the pharmaceutical sector. There was plenty of opposition to this, mainly from the left, though leaving the WTO is simply not an option and everyone realises that.
So what the government does is have a temporary ordinance, not ratified by the parliament, that's somewhat more draconian that it needs to be. I think the software patents thing was one of those items that the government was always willing to chop. There were also lots of safeguards in the pharma sector itself (regarding making of generic drugs in the national interest), allowed by the WTO, that the government omitted from the ordinance. Even the New York Times had a strong editorial criticising the Indian Government for its unnecessarily restrictive ordinance.
When the time comes to pass it through parliament, voila, the government "accommodates" the left parties by introducing these safeguards and removing things like software patents. The left, in return, supports the bill. And everyone's happy.
Mod the parent DOWN.
It only shows he knows nothing of the Indian President. Here are some facts so people can see for themselves:
Some of his speeches
A description of a personal encounter
His own website describing his aspirations
A few of his accomplishments
Finally, for those REALLY interested, here's his auto-biography
Find a job you like and you will never work a day in your life.
camel jockey who's been replaced by a robot!
Indian parliament deleted the section from the patents bill regrading the software patents as left parties prevailed over the Government on the issue.
When submitting articles, is spell-check too much to ask for?
Here's the interesting thing about patents and, if you are a patent expert, I realize you already know this, but I think most people don't see the true irony of patents.
The irony is: they were designed to protect the small guy from the big guy. That's right. I shall repeat. They were designed to protect the small guy from the big guy.
They did this to encourage innovation.
You see, some guy in his garage could invent the television, a big company could come along and copy it, and make billions because he has a bigger operating budget. With patents, the guy could protect his invention, and the big guys couldn't steal his idea. All of a sudden, people want to invent because they can protect their ideas.
But now the patent system has turned on its head. It essentially protects the big guys from the small guys. Probably if we looked at patents in their stricted sense, a kid in their garage could write a text editor and infringe on hundreds of patents. I realize this doesn't usually result in a lawsuit, but the system is so convoluted that the only way to understand it is to hire expensive lawyers, which small guys tend not to be able to afford. So in many cases, the small guy gives up when faced with serious opposition (think RIAA).
Okay, I will freely admit that this post is a little inflamatory and that usually lawsuits are not launched even when a patent is owned for things like using key-combinations on a keyboard. But that's not the point.
The point is this: The patent system no longer does what it was supposed to do which is encourage the creation of new ideas. If a system no longer does what it was designed to do, THAT is the definition of broken.
Sunny
Be my Friend
They can still patent it anywhere else where software patents are allowed. Protecting an innovation usually amounts to patenting it on major markets, not just your domestic market.
Great news, I needed a bit cheering up. Just yesterday I read that Ericsson has started to threaten the Swedish government that research and development will be moved out of Europe to countries that "respect software patents" (the spokesman mentions Japan and the US).
Being bitter is drinking poison and hoping someone else will die
I don't think the issue with India was ever the quality of the code per se, but with all of the obstacles that might (and do) crop up when handing your information infrastructure over to a country halfway across the world. These things will happen despite any code quality issues. There was a recent post by someone responding to another article, that mentioned the ROI issues with respect to projects that are outsourced. Assuming it was accurate, it suggests that outsourcing isn't a cure-all, and the ROI is a long-term proposition.
Still - India did the right thing. It will be interesting to see how their anti-patent ethos meshes with the "patent every stray thought" mentality of the US. I wonder if the US could "help" India change its mind by threatening to withhold business if it doesn't comply.
What a load of horse shit!
They can still patent things in America (and other such countries) if they want and can still cross licence (or pony up licence fees just like everyone else) if they want to distribute in such countries.
All it means is that for their local market, and other similar markets, they don't have to worry about these artificially created monopolies. Their market is freer and they can spend more of their resources actually being productive and making things and less resources overcoming artificially created hurdles.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
I think there are a lot of people who for one reason or another think that competition from other countries is a bad thing.
They seem to think that it is somehow 'unfair' that people in other contries can make product X cheaper. I don't know how many times I've heard the 'rush to the bottom' argument from people who obviously have no grasp of basic economics.
If you are one of those people please read this:
http://www.amosweb.com/cgi-bin/pdg.pl?fcd=dsp&ter
The reason competition is good in this particular case is because the US government is clearly not acting in its citizens best interest in regards to software patents.
The contries that have a more rational intelectual property policy will obviously benefit. This will do one of two things:
1. Businesses and citizens who create software will be forced to move to these 'enlightened' contries if they aren't there already. Basically the US will find itself locking itself out of the software market because producing software in the US will become too expensive or in some instances maybe even impossible.
2. Because of pressure from 1. the US will be forced to adopt better laws.
Basically if you can squash competition by making everyone obey your rules then you can force through productivity and creativity limiting laws such as software patents.
However in a free marketplace countries that have chosen not to incorporate such laws will naturally do better than countries that have. I'm assuming here of course that software patents stifle creativity and productivity but I think this is a pretty safe assumtption.
If you don't understand why software patents are bad please read this:
http://www.nosoftwarepatents.com/en/m/intro/index
In short this is good for everyone because it will garantee that consumers of software will continue to benefit from the explosion of creativity and productivity in the software industry. Also for those of us who produce software this helps by putting real pressure on our government to change its tune in regards to software patents.
You have it backwards. This means software patents granted in other nations are NOT enforceable in India. It does not mean software developed in India can not be patented and enforced in nations where software patents are legal.
If this is the case, then do these patentsnow have no value? Were they compensated? Or are they ceasing to grant new software patents but old ones are still enforcable?
>> Most patents are in the U.S., most (current) innovation and technology growth is in India.
>> They have nothing to gain from adopting software patents.
Your "smart move" response offers the defence of smartness to both sides --- smart of India to bar software patents because they have nothing to gain, and smartness by the US to uphold software patents because they do have something to gain.
Unfortunately the last part of that is only true under the extraordinarily myopic worldview that most innnovations are in the past, and that therefore it is worth protecting the greater old at the expense of harming the lesser new.
Well that's stunningly short-sighted. The future is pretty much infinite, whereas technological progress of the patentable type has been around for a couple of centuries at most, and software patents even less, so the inventions of the past represent effectively zero percent of the body of technical development.
There could hardly be a greater condemnation of the inability of the supporters of patents to see beyond the ends of their noses.
"The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
If the US or EU put pressure on India to get rid of it, will India stand firm and risk the billions of rupees in outsourcing, or allow patents?
that keeps the superpowers on top. Technologcial power is temporary, the only way to keep it is to ensure that your very best minds have every opportunity to discover new technologies.
This should be even more important to the US, as with our smaller population we have a smaller total pool of potential talent, so it should be even more important that we make sure every American has a chance (and is encouraged) to maximize their talents.
We're not doing enough in this area any more, the public looks at Higher Ed. more as a way for an individual to make money than as a public good, so public funding of education has been drying up. If we want to keep our 'place' we'll need to start seeing education as a public good again, and get back to funding it that way...
One of the great ironies of the current patent scope expansion (and copyright extension) wars is that the proponents of ever stronger and broader Government protection invariably portray themselves as capitalists and free marketeers. This further irony of having to rely on the support of traditional Communists to counter the enormous political pressure towards an Orwellian style oligarchical collectivism (corporate Communism) is almost too much to bear.
How about this hypothetical situation. We're outsourcing sufficient work to companies in India that they're being well trained in software development methodology in larger numbers. Despite being in India, they can in fact apply for software patents in the US.
Now, the population of India is significantly higher than the population of the US. Assuming a significant number of software developers were to be trained in India, they could very well reach numbers which outpace the entire population of the US. Now add China to the mix.
Let's assume this army of developers was engaged in applying for patents when they develop something which strikes them as slightly innovative. That's what happens in the US, so why not? Our patent system would be flooded with patents which US corporations would need to license from companies in India and China. Our own patent system would become the hammer with which to bludgeon our jobs.
Just something to think about.
Richard Stallman had explained this very nicely in a speech against software patents:
In other words, software patents today mostly protect big companies, so it's no surprise that they are the ones who support them the most.
The transcript of the speech can be found here. Despite the odd transcription error, it's a great read.
Wikileaks, no DNS
...is really a free country. I hope US troops never go there! Amen!
sex is better than war!
Please mod parent up! It's a great point.
However I don't think it's not so much irony as simple fallacies resulting from too many of said capitalist politicians taking everything the business community says at face value (while the opposite side of the political spectrum inherently hates anything they say). Or said in another way: there aren't that many real thinkers in either camp, they're mostly going on gut feelings, trying to uphold what they perceive to be their image, and representing those that shout loudest at them be they "evil" corporations or "rabid" activists...
this comment is provided "as is" and without any express or implied legibility or congruity [...]
Seriously, explain what link there is between software patents and outsourcing?
There isn't one, and trying to make one up won't work. The reason for outsourcing is to drive down labour costs, not to escape software patents.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
Way to go folks, let the communists with that wonderfully successful system of the past, adopt the FSF. Ah well, the communists are going to be taking every tech job in the western world into India and China anyway, so I guess its good that they can rob and steal our intellectual property as well.
So I guess you wouldn't even consider the possibility that our various IP laws themselves are hampering our ability to compete?
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
You would think the USA itself would have learned about overly restricting software by laws from the encryption law sillyness, which was as follows:
The software developed in the USA could not be used internationally due to restrictions. Plenty of businesses wanted to do secure financial transactions securely using encryption. The solution that occured? Develop the software elsewhere and import it.
This same approach has the potential to be applied to most branches of software, since the US patent office does not appear to actually assess the merit or existance of proir art. It's very likely that the same approach taken with domain names (if it's in the dictionary it's taken) will apply to basic methods used in software.
I would be happy to see the USA patch their broken patent system until it works instead of trying to export the chaos to level the playing feild. We've already seen a bunch of companies which live only to sue based on what the former owners did when the company actually did something. Any country that is watching this process carefully is not going to implement software patents.
Really ? Your logic has left me a bit speechless. I guess the next thing you are going to say is that because in India, ( Japan and Britain too I think ) people drive on the left, all Indians, Brits and Japanese visiting USA should drive on the left too, on American roads...
I really love it when we self styled geeks think that putting C logical operators in their conversations somehow makes their point stronger.
Like gaurding against terrorists, the anti-patent crowd must stay lucky all the time. The patent lobbiests need only get lucky once.
They will just keep trying and trying, and once they have obtained software patents in a country, it becomes well nigh impossible to dislodge them.
The price of patentless software is eternal donation supported lobbying against all-consuming mega corperations.
May the Maths Be with you!
Intelligent regulation is a good thing, but the "us and them" mentality isn't going to help regulation become more intelligent. Deliberate ignorance over market factors that help the unemployed and the poor are going to mean that regulation will be counterproductive, for it no longer is a matter of truth, but rather which side you are on.
As for the meaning of efficiency, the concept isn't defined until you decide what is of value. But I know that you're using the concept sarcastically, so let me address that:
Efficiency isn't cheapness; it is the best use of resources. Even if maximising GDP is your measure of efficiency, it's no good people being paid less than what they could get elsewhere, for the job that paid more pays more because it is generating more wealth, ie., for them to stay in the less-well-paid job harms both themselves and the economy: it is inefficient. Similarly, slavery is inefficient, for it prevent slaves from moving into more productive work.
In saying this, I am not your foe, though: I do not measure progress by GDP, which makes me support certain laws (and oppose others) more strongly than if I did. But even by a GDP measure, a number of laws make sense. If someone on a minimum wage can afford better food because of that minimum, for example, they will require less hospital care, and also be more productive. This needs a law, because the employer doesn't typically gain from their long-term health; more likely, another will. Safety standards are required because otherwise risk to workers will be seen equally with other (financial) risks. As startups fail nine times out of ten, safety won't become important for a while. Since a startup failure isn't a major economic failure (others will replace it), safety laws restore efficiency.
Wikileaks, no DNS
i hope we get thru this in europe too.... cheers http://www.cuseeme.de
I donot understand why the hell these guys relate
outsourcing to everything under the sun ?
Let me put it this way , outsourcing is a step
towards achieving a global economy, something
good for everyone. It has been started by the
American companies. Good for them. And its good
that new jobs are getting created in developing
countries. It is very important for the world
economy that these countries prosper.
The sad part is: India didnt reject swpats because it thought it was the right thing to do - it rejected them because not doing so would have caused the left to get difficult, which would have caused the bill to stall.
In short, it wasn't because the government was convinced that swpats were bad, but because they found that the remaining stuff that they needed to push through was more important to them.
Sadly, despite all the good press, the mentality remains unchanged, and I am certain there will be more attempts very soon.
You aren't remembered for doing what is expected of you
three things about this.
.15 cents per light bulb based on some patent. This effectively lowers the barrier of entry into Software and manufacturing
1. India has a population above 1 billion.
2. 'Human resources' (i hate that word) are cheap.
3. Profit.
As someone else posted, only local markets will be affected....but a local market for 1 billion people and industry that can set up shop and USE ANY METHOD known to them for production of a product will surely have an advantage over those paying
("hey joe, did you get that new 'patented[not in india]' control system for us?")
unless im misunderstanding something
Check journal for info on Anti-TextBook, an idea by me.
If the US tried to retaliate by withholding business from India, I guess the outsourcing would have to stop, right? Which means that US companies that outsource their labour would either have to a.) find another place to go that has a well-enough trained/educated workforce to be able to do the work, or b.) go back to employing the more expensive domestic labour force (since the reason for outsourcing is because it is cheaper, right?). I can't imagine many companies being thrilled with that.
So on the one hand, you have the US doing nothing and probably losing its "patent advantage" in the rest of the world, and on the other hand, you have retaliation which leads to reduced profits for the corporations (which put a lot of money into politics) due to more expensive operating costs, and I don't imagine them taking that lightly. Interesting.
I am somewhat reminded of something about rocks and hard places.
"Empathise with stupidity, and you're halfway to thinking like an idiot." - Iain M. Banks
It is also important for the world that there never be a significant number of American citizens who could be classified as 'desperately poor'. Our current crop of politicians may be owned by big business, but if we get a 40% unemployment rate, we will vote for any crackpot who promises us a return to the good old days of power and prosperity (like Hitler promised to the Germans (+5 Godwins Law reference)).
With our history of ill-considered military action, our poorly educated public, and our military might (nuclear and non-nuclear), our desperation would be a bad thing for the world.
Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it. --Mark Twain
> Seriously, explain what link there is between software patents and outsourcing?
When you can run whatever software you want to run because a patent says (IBM|Microsoft|Sun|Your Cat|SCO) own Foo in it, or you can't even write it for the very same reason, you will seek solutions to run or write that software elsewhere.
---- Take the Space Quiz!
I think a lot of people here are missing this specific point: with Indian companies not paying attention to patents (american patents at least,) it would be possible to charge the firms who use Indian software in the States with patent infringement, wouldn't it? If SCO could bring up charges against so many firms I am sure it is not in the realm of impossibility for some firm(s) to bring up patent infringement charges against whatever firm that uses Indian software. So if MS charges a bank say with patent infringement then these things can happen: MS loses in court or Bank loses in court or Bank settles or the judge throws the case out of court.
If the judge throws the case, MS will charge again.
If MS loses in court it would be possible to start a motion to negate all software patents.
If Bank settles there will be a precedent set and firms may become scared of using Indian software.
If Bank loses in court Indian software may become non grata in the States.
Did I miss some things?
You can't handle the truth.
But original applications should at least have a chance to make some money in the free market...
You aren't arguing for making money in the free market, you're arguing for a government granting you a monopoly so there is no free market.
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
Actually there is a pretty blatant link. What company would outsource IP intensive information to a counrty that doen't uphold IP laws?
that the U.S. levels the playing field and stop all this intellectual property crap that microsoft/sco started and abolish software patents.
Duh, wouldn't that be a reason not to outsource to countries with no software patents?
If anything, if what you've just said holds true then not recognising software patents would be disastrous to India's software community, so you're saying that not recognising those patents is bad for Indian business. Well then, why are they doing it?
You, like the person that I replied to originally, are missing the point: where your software is developed is irrelevant, what's relevant is where it is sold, because the market in which it is sold will determine what effect patents have on your product, not the market in which it is manufactured.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
But that is the new intention: It is like finding a hammer on the sidewalk - originally intended to construct shelters, we now see that it would make a perfect tool to bludgeon people over the head to take their money.
Basically, we've discovered a new, profitable use for an old tool!
There is not nearly enough love in the world, but there is far too much trust.
(Technological) Secrets make a nation thrive
/. we, the powers that be, do not respect secrets - especially if it could bring about that
Secrets? Secrets? You mean like that Closed Source thingy? I am sorry, on
{Dr Evil Voice}
evil
{/Dr Evil Voice}
Closed Source
I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
Many nations have trade agreements through which their patents are enforceable in one another.
You do realize that you've not corrected me, rather you simply restated the exact same thing I said. Except for some nonsense at the end about there being a point where patents need to instated because a lack thereof prohibits growth (patents prohibit growth, not the lack of them).
PROFIT!!!!
Akarsz Magyar Gentoo fórumot? Akkor
http://www.naukri.com will get you started.
While there is no H1b quota nonsense, you do need to get a company to hire you first and then sponsor a work visa.
Good luck.
Whenever there is an article about software patents in USA or EU, everyone on slashdot (or rather, the Americans) start condemning patents and say that the very concept of software patents are bad. They even said the same thing on the article about introduction of software patents in India. But on this article about the stopping of software patents in India, it is suddenly about "protecting" US "property" and how Indians and people of other developing countries steal it. If software patents are wrong, they are wrong everywhere and so no one is stealing anything from anyone by "defying" software patents. I'm starting to get a picture of how Americans look at "freedom", economy and developing countries. And it's pretty bad.
Some of the best thinkers in India tend towards Socialism and Communism. Not recently, but before Independence when Communism (or Socialism, depends on who you ask) spread through two of the most educated, free thinking states in India : Kerala and Bengal. Its not surprising that Kerala has 100% literacy, not a minor feat by any standards.
Young people these days tend towards communism, socialism, the India Congress or whatever political party they choose, not due to personal convictions, but because they are too lazy to work and earn.
And I would rephrase your last sentence to "Political parties doing something that is actually Good for the economy"!!. Its hard to believe that there still are a handful of Politicians and Bureaucrats who drives change in the establishment.
Rapid Nirvana
provide an educated labor pool.
vs. a private 'good'.
However I was talking about Higher Education, which (esp. in the sciences) was practically free for talented folks in the 50s-60s, mostly through public funds.
Now we have a great Higher Ed. system, but public funding of it (directly or through scholarships, etc. has dropped to the point that many talented Americans can't afford the $ and/or time to maximize their talents.
I would think that this would reduce the amount of outsourcing. If you were Microsoft or Oracle would you want your stuff being developed somewhere that didn't recognize your patents? Isn't piracy what MS is always getting upset about? Am I missing something?
Stick that in your compiler and debug it!
The patent issue in India was discussed at length in Local magazines. Primary problem there was getting medicines at cheaper cost. This include medicines used by AIDS patient in Africa et all. Hence the patent regime in India could have had a major impact for poor patients in may parts of the world.
Indian software companies does not make much money from Patents. There are companies like IBM (or take any biggie) that do lot of work in India, but they file the patent in US. That would not be stopped because of this law..
Microsoft India is hardly an independent Indian company.
Free Gamer - Free games list and commentary
when in fact they encourage technology through disclosure of new ideas.
Ha. Ha ha. Hahahahahahahaha
I needed that laugh.
What is the point of disclosing new ideas when they're not usable for the next 16 years? In the computing field, those ideas are dead and buried two or three years after they were discovered. Remember Bresenham's Line Algorithm? In 1992 some people patented a "better" version. Of course, the patent still reads like a math textbook as it explains how to add numbers together in an "innovative" way.
Oh wait, we're supposed to reward people for inventing this by paying them. Uhoh, that "w" in wait used 4 lines! Oh shit, I just wrote more lines! Better check on my line-drawing license, the owner decided that I'd have to pay per line drawn! I hope you've paid up, after all you're using this patented line drawing algorithm while you're reading this post! You aren't? Odd, it looks like your computer is drawing lines to me, therefore it MUST be infringing on that patent. Lawyers! To battle! *blows trumpet*
And that, of course, is the other reason software patents are abhorrent. How do I know if your program is infringing on my line drawing algorithm or not? I could take apart an engine to determine if it used my patented fuel injectors or valve design, but with software, there is simply a black box with inputs and outputs... anyone patenting one process that accepts given inputs and produces given outputs is now free to sue everyone else with such a black box. So now I have the source code to your program. Ah, so sorry, I see you don't actually infringe on my patent, but I really like the way you dealt with this particular bit of code, it never did work well in our product, but I hear our next version will have a revolutionary new design to improve performance in that spot! Oh, and legal fees? Well, I explained to the judge that it was a mistake anyone could make, and the lawsuit was not malicious or unfounded in the least, so his honor decided that I'll pay my lawyers, and you pay yours. Have a nice day!
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
Hmm....lowering the standard of living in the US, by willfully exporting jobs....helps me how exactly?
I don't mind nor want to stand in the way of any other country begin to pull themselves up, and finally start to improve their standard of living, but, I'm not altrusitic enough to want to help them at my own detriment!
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
All laws are restricted to a given legal entity (generally a country). Each entity decides how to enforce their own laws.
Except countries can no longer survive under autarky. The power to make trade treaties gives countries power to control other countries' laws. Specifically, all members of the World Trade Organization must accept the Berne Convention, the Patent Cooperation Treaty, and other TRIPS treaties, as a condition of joining and remaining in the WTO.
the parameters (such as lifetime of a copyright) varies significantly.
Damn right. The way patent treaties work in practice is nothing like the way copyright treaties work in practice.
Patents: An inventor files an application in multiple countries simultaneously. Each PCT party's patent office decides whether or not to grant a patent effective in that country.
Copyrights: An inventor fixes a work in a tangible medium and files nothing with any agency. All Berne Convention parties are obligated to grant a copyright that lasts longer than a typical prison term for first degree murder.
regrade v. To evaluate again.
"Indian parliament deleted the section from the patents bill reevaluating software patents as left parties prevailed over the Government on the issue."
And you are missing the point as well. It matters a lot to companies the produce IP sensitive information. I work for a pharmaceutical company and we have off shore operations....but none of our IP sensitive information goes. Likewise I also own a software company and non of my internally sensitive information goes to outside programmers. So yeah I would say I have quite a clue as to what I am saying. Oh and yes if India keeps this up it will be bad for their business.
Absolutely!
But original applications should at least have a chance to make some money in the free market... You aren't arguing for making money in the free market, you're arguing for a government granting you a monopoly so there is no free market. not too bright thinking that is not a free market! in order for the market to be free you need to balance the big guy against the little guy. granting a limited monopoly on one aspect of something is not stopping freedom it is insuring it. the kind of freedom you are proscribing is not freedom but anarchy, which is fine if you are the anarchist and everyone isnt!! if there was not the chance of recouping what you put in then there is no reason to try! every decent idea will be taken apart, remade, and sold by other larger concernes that got their start before you were born and would never let go of or stop maintaining their hegemony. in fact if you think inventors and designers are paranoid now... wait if there isnt such protection, nothing will happen because anyone with an idea will be too afraid to even discuss it. their only hope is to acquire a few million and make it themselves and grab the market share... which means that a prodigious inventor can now only create a few things as they cant sell them and move on... withouht a patent you have no idea to sell!!! what would someone be buying? trade secret doesnt cover it when what you make doesnt contain a something that is crucial to its working that no one has or can ficure out. the problem is not from the concept of a patent, its from how the laws have been changed by large corporations to favor them and make the burdens on smaller entities onerous (so perhaps they wont compete they will just sell to the large company for cheap). the other problem is what is being patented... no one argues about patents on physical conglomerations of objects that together do something. but it gets flakier and problematical when its something you just pick up and the limitation to entry is that you have more money. like dna, or bio patents based on reading whats their... under this perview the first person do discover oxygen could have gotten a patent on it. though its not crazy to think that a mouse with special genes and all the work to make is patentable. software though is mathematical... and when the math us special like rsa THAT is what should be patented... but program structure that is not all this unique stuff but only a unique function should be under copyright. for its like a book that is the embodyment of a concept, not a manual that is the desertation of a special fact. its a mess... the big boys are winning and there is no super heroes to help or save. better to stop arguing the point and find better things to do with your time than participate in your personal attrition!
"You may now attack me and call me names."
The only name I called you was wrong. The only attacking I did was to say that you were wrong.
"know you're going to say that the Indian companies will just ignore the suits, but that's not the way it works in global markets where the US and other countries can and will exert economic/political pressure to require India to enforce patents as a condition for receiving aid or IMF loans, etc"
Do not confuse two seperate issues. You are right, Indian companies will simply ignore the suits since US courts have no authority.
The US pressuring india to legalize software patents does not have any impact on companies ignoring damages awarded in US courts for activities that are legal in India. Even if India legalizes software patents tommorow a US ruling against a company today will STILL have no weight.
Some of the already alotted patents in the basis of patent amenment ordinance (passed on December 2004 that implimented patents over embeded software). I dont know the current situation of these patents after patents over software is dropped. In the order of Applicant, patent no, descripation. guset notiofication
Intel Corp. USA
192439
A method of processing a request and a computer system and microprocessor therfor
April 24,2004
Seimens, Germany
193501
Method for cashless payment
July 24, 2004
Canal + Societe Amonyme, France
193654
Method of download data to an MPEG receiver/decoder and an MPEG receiver/decoder
July 31, 2004
Siemens, Germany
181381
Method for transmission of digital signals in time division multiplex channel from via a ATM transmission device.
November 29, 2004
Intel Corp.
192590
Method for providing content interruption
May 08, 2004
Sun Micorsystems Inc.
193708
A computer implemented process for processing a computer program and a computer program product therefor.
August 07, 2004
Seimens, Germany
194407
A method for offering announcement in a communication network and the communication network therof
October 30, 2004
Seimens, Germany
194087
Method for transmission of data between a terminal and portable data carrier over a wireless electromagnetic transmission stretch
September 25, 2004
Sun Microsystems
194159
An interactive computer assembly for implementing message dispatch for an object oriented program and method therof
September 25, 2004
not much point in not using real dollars per capita IMO (see Over the same time period (1988-98), real higher education appropriations per capita declined from $185 to $175.
Even if you believe that everyone in 1988 had a chance to maximize their talents, we are in decline from that state now. If (as seems likely) only a fraction of the people in 1988 whom could have contributed more to society if they had advanced training were able to get it, then we are in more serious decline.
That goes to the point: we'll need to maximize the potential of every person to staty competitive, if real $ per capita declines, then there are people with talents who are not getting the chance to maximize those talents.
I think the idea of getting rid of patents is fantastic!
I was going to start a software development company this summer. I had planned to roll out three product lines in FY 2008. I figured three years ought to be enough time for my programmers to fully develop the ideas and get the code written. So, three years, 30 programmers @ $80K per year + an additional $40K in benefits and taxes, $20K per month in rent for office space, equipment, bandwidth, phone lines, etc.
Screw that! I'm not going to spend millions dollars and three years of my life when as soon as the product launches someone in India can chage the name on the box and sell it for less.
I'll let the suckers in India do all the labor and just "open source" their stuff with MY brand on it. Let THEM spend the money to develop it. All I need is 10,000 users at $100 a pop and I've made a million dollars profit. The suckers in India have to sell it for $200 and sell a million units just to cover their startup costs.
The only problem with that...
They might get tired of me reaping the benefits of their investment. Then, they'll want to protect that investment somehow. After all, it was THEY who spent all the money and time developing the stuff.
It's a good thing they are so againt protecting intellectual property.
I'd be screwed and actually have to work for a living.
Innovation is expensive.
"Let me put it this way , outsourcing is a step towards achieving a global economy, something good for everyone."
People have been brainwashed into repeating this over and over. It is possibly true, on a global scope. However it is never mentioned that while the business owner, India and China are taking 2 steps forward, the American worker is taking 1 step back.
US becomes one net importer
Except it's also unlawful to import patented products without permission of the patent holder.
This is a big success against the US Patent System globalization plan. Indian software industry will be free to develop. The big guys can't expropriate indian ideas or stop indian products. They can only copy ideas when the product is already on the market. In the IT sector... late is always "too" late... :-)
Whos going to want to run a software company in india if they can protect their intellectual properties. Another strike to a weak government.