Kernel, Shell Boots on DS Linux

mrseigen writes "According to dslinux.org, the Linux kernel successfully boots on the Nintendo DS along with a simple shell, sash. Input is done via the d-pad. How long until Netstumbler?" While maybe not the most practical platform, it's impressive on its technical merit.

Comments

Netstumbler?

[Fjornir]

Not netstumbler. I wanna see some tux racer.

Re:Netstumbler?

[bleckywelcky]

No, netstumbler is a new game where you stumble over nets.

Re:Netstumbler?

[MyDixieWrecked]

Isn't NetStumbler available for OSX, too? or is that a different app with the same name/ purpose?

Re:Netstumbler?

[Trejkaz]

Only it's on the DS, so it has to be called "Touch Racer" instead to comply with marketing requirements for DS games.

Re:Netstumbler?

[Anonymous Coward]

its not quite Linux, but DarkStar (1, 2, 3) sure has come a long way on the DS as well, being a shell writen specifically for the DS.

Re:Netstumbler?

[bach37]

Take a wild guess at its name:
istumbler

Re:Netstumbler?

[Anonymous Coward]

A review of DarkStar (albiet, a slightly aged version)

Re:Netstumbler?

[Anonymous Coward]

Thats kiddie talk. Four out of five choosing hackers prefer Kismet.

Re:Netstumbler?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure to make it a hit at Neverland...

Re:Netstumbler?

[MyDixieWrecked]

actually. I fired up my powerbook to install tiger last night (very early this morning, before bed) and I actually had MacStumbler.

hmmmm...

Re:Netstumbler?

[Anonymous Coward]

When the big hand touches the little hand, it's time to play !!

Well

[elid]

How long until they can get it working with the touch screen as a text input device in Linux? That would be really amazing.

Re:Well

[nate nice]

"How long until they can get it working ..."

That's the beauty of OSS! You can get it to work with the touch screen. Go sign up today!

Re:Well

[Janitha]

The familiar linux project mainly aims at the arm processors, but they are slowly but steadily perfective the art of linux on the handtop, and I specially like the few on-screen keyboards, and the handwrite recognition apps they had included. A port of the familar distro (http://familiar.handhelds.org/) would be very nice to see on the DS.

Re:Well

[Mercano]

Its also been done on Opie, but that of course primarily targets PDAs. Though, other then the fact that the DS has two screens, prioprietary memory cards, and no on-board ROM, I don't think there is too much difference.

Re:Well

[0racle]

So what your saying is that the DS is completely different from a PDA?

Re:Well

[Anonymous Coward]

And by "you", we mean the 3 PhDs out there that know something about handwriting recognition but yet are unemployed with plenty of spare time.

Re:Well

[Anonymous Coward]

IBM employees then?

Re:Well

[Frogbert]

And naturally because this is a linux distribution there are two competing desktop environments.

Re:Well

[Noodlord]

It hasn't also been done with opie, opie is just a desktop manager that's focus is the PDA. It most commonly runs on top of familiar. Secondly, given the DS' CPU architecture, I wouldn't say the familiar people would be at all interested, their main focus is to port the linux kernel to the Intel Strong Arm chip. They are working on some of the other palm processors (mainly those that come with ipaq's), but only one of those boots natively at the moment.

Re:Well

[Noodlord]

Familiar is mostly a kernel, so it would be more likely to see the GPE or Opie environments recompiled for the DS Linux kernel.

Re:Well

[Mandoric]

Two screens isn't -too- unusual; it can easily be thought of as one screen, only half of which is touch-sensitive. Aren't there PDAs with a similar layout?

Also, there definitely is a ROM containing a simple onboard system. Not necessary one focused on providing services to other software, but a whiteboard app and the wireless drivers to make it worthwhile count for something.

Re:Well

[ehack]

Well, I signed up to a PSP site. They asked for my qualifications, I said PhD. Never heard from them again.

Handwrting recognition is actually pretty easy if you can coerce the alphabet like Graffiti, I think the code for a couple of recognisers is buried somewhere inside Squeak - anyway, if I had to do it I would just use the Graffiti alphapbet, coz everybody knows it, don't think it would take more than a couple of days to make it work.

Re:Well

[Ctrl-Z]

Sure, put one on each screen.

Re:Well

[harrkev]

And a couple of years in court over patent issues...

Palm dumped Graffiti for Graffiti 2 because they were sued. From a user's perspective, this is a step backwards...

Re:Well

[rayde]

please do this! :)

Re:Well

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd like to see Linux/NetBSD on my PalmOne Tungsten C. I wonder what's the main hurdle. Manf. specs?

Where's Waldo?

[SpartanVII]

All that trouble and you can't get a nice boot screen of Tux? What's the point? :P

Re:Where's Waldo?

[Pepsiman]

Tux will come, we just need to write a framebuffer driver.

That's truly stunning...

[tattoi.nobori]

Not only for the technical accomplishment, but for the sheer, "why?" factor...

Rock on, I guess. ^_^

Re:That's truly stunning...

[mcc]

Let me see here

A device with

• A touchscreen
• An auxiliary screen
• 802.11
• For $150

Find a way to boot off of a flashcart DS cart, and fuck, this sounds like a really good deal to me.

Re:That's truly stunning...

[gstoddart]

Not only for the technical accomplishment, but for the sheer, "why?" factor...

Near as I can tell, simply because they have a general-purpose CPU on their hands and they can. :-P

Re:That's truly stunning...

[inode_buddha]

That's a device that I would sign up for in a heartbeat, tho I'm really not up on the the embedded market.

Re:That's truly stunning...

[Enigma_Man]

I think it's more because it's a relatively high-powered, portable, wireless device, excellent input device, great battery life, stereo audio, etc etc. It's basically going to be like a $150 palm that runs linux that can play really good games too... think about it.

-Jesse

Re:That's truly stunning...

[Val314]

If there is some way to turn the DS into a PDA with WLAN i'd buy one! (well, if the DS wouldnt look that bad)

Thats cool

[macaulay805]

I covered this on my blog earlier today! As I was saying on my blog, it'd be a good thing if the DS could be a low cost replacement for a voip phone or PDA!

Re:Thats cool

[The Big Ugly]

Yea, this is interesting. You should cover it in your blog.

Re:Thats cool

[darth_silliarse]

No offence but blogs are boring and there are so many with inane ramblings about subjects I have no interest in I find the authors of said blogs as dull as dishwater. Oh and stop whoring your blog...

Re:Thats cool

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sorry, where did you write about this again?

Re:Thats cool

[Anonymous Coward]

$150 is not "low cost" enough to make it worthwhile. VoIP is more than a little optimistic.

Re:Thats cool

[Captain_Chaos]

I covered this on my blog earlier today!

I can't believe I missed it!

Linux on a DS?

[baryon351]

How about OSX on a Gameboy

Re:Linux on a DS?

[Anonymous Coward]

Fake.

Re:Linux on a DS?

[AgNO3]

you know that is fake. They would have listed a retaler along with the prices.

Re:Linux on a DS?

[Anonymous Coward]

You know you have to be a retard to even look for a reason why that's fake.

Retard.

Re:Linux on a DS?

[happymedium]

haahahahah...mod parent up, it's actually a pretty funny hoax.

Re:Linux on a DS?

[Jesus_666]

I'm still waiting for the gPod. That's what I call a sexy handheld.

Re:Linux on a DS?

[martian265]

I'm still waiting for the gPod. That's what I call a sexy handheld.

This is of course a hoax. After all, if it were truly an Apple product, it would only have 1 button, because the average Apple gamer is not smart enough to use more than 1 (or at least thinks that).

D-Pad

[doubtless]

Input is done via the d-pad.

What happen when I want to use the other 25 characters? This makes an interesting login/password combo

Re:D-Pad

[froggero1]

If you read the article...

You use the buttons. The directional pad scrolls through letters, a selects the current letter, L inserts a space, R cycles through lowercase letters, uppercase letters, numbers, and some special symbols like /. B works like enter.

Re:D-Pad

[taffer1979]

You know someone will use up up down down left right left right start as their password.

Re:D-Pad

[rickthewizkid]

Well... the root password COULD be "UP,. UP, DOWN, DOWN, LEFT, RIGHT, LEFT, RIGHT, B, A, START" --- of course, any Nintendo player that grew up with the NES and SNES would know that since you have the L and R buttons , you would have to use them in place of the LEFT, RIGHT, LEFT, RIGHT or else your DS will self destruct....

Yes, I played WAY too many video games as a kid...

Just my Konami-Code's worth....
--RickTheWizKid

Re:D-Pad

[taffer1979]

Looks like great minds think alike.

Re:D-Pad

[Anonymous Coward]

If you get the joke...

Input is done via the d-pad.
d-pad.
d-pad.

Re:D-Pad

[Anonymous Coward]

Whoosh!

Re:D-Pad

[oldwolf13]

what code was that? /me thinks Bubble Bobble but I could be wrong.

Re:D-Pad

[NanoGator]

"If you read the article..."

Thanks for the info Mr. Kryten. Next time you head down to the Emotions Show, pick up the upgrade disc with a picture of Joe Piscapo on the label.

Re:D-Pad

[squidsoup]

It's the 'Konami code', which typically enabled cheats on NES games like Contra.

Re:D-Pad

[lysergic.acid]

Is that the combo for Bestiality in Mortal Kombat, or am i thinking of a different game?

Re:D-Pad

[Anonymous Coward]

Bestiality eh?...

You must be too young.

That's the Konami code damnit! Worked on Contra, Life Force, who knows what else...

Re:D-Pad

[medep]

i think forward down forward high punch would be better. it's the head ripping fatality for sub-zero :)

Re:D-Pad

[PhotoGuy]

You know someone will use up up down down left right left right start as their password.

Hey! That's my luggage combination!

Re:D-Pad

[thgreatoz]

Worked in most Konami games for NES (and some for SNES) back in the day.

Re:D-Pad

[eric_brissette]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konami_Code

Wow, Wikipedia has way too many nerds submitting content.

Re:D-Pad

[strider44]

is that any better than the normal "iddqd"?

Re:D-Pad

[EllisDees]

JonKatz, is that you?!?

Not practical?

[lostchicken]

Yeah, a portable device with a lot of battery power, wireless, two screens and a touchscreen input running a general purpose operating system that's relatively inexpensive and that many of us already have couldn't possibly be practical...

I'd never want my GameBoy to replace my palmpilot...

Re:Not practical?

[Zigg]

And, of course, DS homebrew is possible in any number of ways:

1. With a "PassMe" device -- a card that slides into the DS slot and instructs the DS to execute DS code from the GBA slot. Requires a piggybacked game card, which Nintendo helpfully provides with most DS units.
2. With "WifiMe" -- a downloadable-from-the-main-menu jump to the GBA slot. You're tied to a PC, but you don't need any hardware besides -- again -- a GBA card.
3. With a firmware update created by homebrewers that replaces the DS's ability to run GBA games with a new ability to run DS-mode code from the GBA slot.

Honestly, CowboyNeal... how can this not be practical? Is it just not as cool as playing JavaScript tetris -- tethered to a PC, mind you, and requiring the use of one particular game -- on a PSP?

Re:Not practical?

[xenocide2]

Just thought I should mention that the WiFiMe does indeed require more hardware than just a DS and gba cart. You also need a wifi card that has a specific chipset. And it's not the popular atheros one. There's little hope of that particular project ever supporting another card, as the wifime replaces the driver with a different one to communicate with the DS.

Re:Not practical?

[lysergic.acid]

i'd rather see use the PSP as a pocket PC since its processor speed(333MHz underclocked @ 222MHz) is actually on par with most new palms/pocket pcs. plus, the PSP already has a keyboard attachment and way sweet graphics/audio processors.

linux on DS still seems like primarily a novelty project. i'm sure it performs great for its designed purposes(playing DS games), but its hardware isn't appropriate for competing against today's pocket PCs.

Re:Not practical?

[Kremmy]

The PSP would be rather unsuitable for use as a PocketPC due to the lack of stylus/touch screen, that's what really makes the DS a candidate. The PSP does have more potential for XBOX-style modding, and homebrew games.

Re:Not practical?

[Frodo Crockett]

Without a touchscreen, the PSP will never be anything more than a portable game console. Any experiments with Linux on the PSP will be just that-experiments. You'll never convice someone to use a PDA without a touchscreen.

Re:Not practical?

[sagekoala06]

I take it you have never used a mobile phone without a touchscreen that used windows mobile whose navigation is done with a d-pad and two buttons? Even if the psp had a touchscreen would you even ever want to use it ... smudge city! I really don't think that psp running pa softwae would be that bad as long as you had an actual keyboard AND used the analog nub as a mouse (you know along the lines of the sticks on ibm laptops)

Re:Not practical?

[Abcd1234]

Bah, getting a workable card is trivial. The Linksys WMP54G revision 4 card is easily available (it's the most recent revision, with the smaller formfactor), and works like a charm. Heck, if you're really cheap, buy the card, flash your DS with the now-available firmware upgrade, and then return the card. :)

Re:Not practical?

[lysergic.acid]

I hadn't thought of that before. I guess it's cuz I've never owned a PDA. But other than that, the PSP's hardware seems a lot more impressive. Wouldn't the keyboard attatchment(which seems fairly light-weight though I don't know how functional it is) get rid of the need for a stylus or touch screen?

Re:Not practical?

[Frodo Crockett]

Not really. Try navigating an OS with only the keyboard, or fire up a console rts and see how well a d-pad works with a cursor. It's quite painful in most operating systems. And that keyboard...it's a bit small. That's a poor place to put it, too. You have to reach over the screen or around the unit to type.

Sorry, I just don't think it will work. Portable media player? Yes. PDA? Well, can you picture yourself taking down notes, phone numbers, and appointment times with that little keyboard? Touchscreen + handwriting recognition is the only way to go for a PDA.

Troubling...

[Sheetrock]

It's a great technical achievement, but I'm concerned it will be turned to piracy uses eventually.

It would be nice if console developers would release or permit to be released an official version of Linux for their platforms so that hardware and software exploits didn't need to be used.

Re:Troubling...

[oldwolf13]

If this were true, xome of the xbox projects wouldn't exist, including the INCREDIBLE Xbox Media Center. (and the really cool dashboard).

Of course, you might just say that if microsoft had added these features (should have) then it wouldn't be necessary.

Re:Troubling...

[cgenman]

If they released an official version of Linux for their platforms, it would allow unsigned, uncontrolled code to run on their platforms. They could no longer demand licensing revenue, because people could just release their games under the linux portion of the OS, not that is a significant threat. What's more troubling would be, for example, Microsoft's security model based around not allowing anything unsigned onto their network. An Xbox with full network access running arbitrary code can now do nasty things with billing servers, the services of other people, or simply cheating in online games.

Plus, of course, it's a lot of resources to get Linux to run on a new platform, even though someone always seems willing to do it. And hardware and software exploits are going to be released anyway... flash carts for the DS existed long before Linux ran on it.

Re:Troubling...

[Anonymous Coward]

Off topic, but... why is your sig quote mis-attributed to Spock??

Re:Troubling...

[GotenXiao]

Sony did. They released a Linux kit for the PS2 a while back. No longer available in the US, but it is in the UK. Try googling (or froogling) for it.

Re:Troubling...

[antizeus]

I'm concerned it will be turned to piracy uses eventually.

Maybe I'm just not clever enough, but I don't see what use a DS running Linux would be when committing robbery on the high seas.

Re:Troubling...

[Frodo Crockett]

It's a great technical achievement, but I'm concerned it will be turned to piracy uses eventually.

Any general purpose computing device can be used to infringe upon copyright. You're using one right now. Mind if we take a look at your home directory to check for infringement?

It would be nice if console developers would release or permit to be released an official version of Linux for their platforms so that hardware and software exploits didn't need to be used.

So an "official" Linux distribution couldn't be used to infigrine upon copyright? Your contradictory post is nonsense.

Re:Troubling...

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe I'm just not clever enough, but I don't see what use a DS running Linux would be when committing robbery on the high seas.

Hmm, is the a Linux version of Puzzle Pirates? And if so could it run on this hardware?

The PSP is next

[a3217055]

I bet these guys will get linux to work on the PSP next, that would be just swell. But they should make game hardware that is open and people can install what they want on it. Thus have a great game system and also a great mini computer that can do other small things such as read email or maybe mount remote file systems. Well all this is great congrats guys. A tin of Skoal for eveyone of you :)

Re:The PSP is next

[natrius]

The margin of profit is much higher on the games than it is on the systems. Open hardware makes pirating games much easier, as well as giving away or selling games that people can play without giving the manufacturer any more money. Open hardware can only work if you sell the hardware at a price that's reasonable for the features. The only reason people are saying how cool this is is because the hardware is cheap.

There already is open hardware out there: PDAs.

Re:The PSP is next

[Pxtl]

Somebody tried, and the project croaked. Look up Indrema to see what happened to the short-lived Linux game console.

So, when're they going to get openGL on this thing? I wanna play some BZFlag or Quake.

Re:The PSP is next

[makomk]

The margin of profit is much higher on the games than it is on the systems.

In fact, some companies probably lose money on consoles; I think Nintendo policy is to aviod this, though.

Re:The PSP is next

[wheany]

So, when're they going to get openGL on this thing? I wanna play some BZFlag or Quake.

Or even some good games!

Re:The PSP is next

[Jesus_666]

So, you're talking about the GamePark 32?

Re:The PSP is next

[Anonymous Coward]

Or the WonderSwan.

WonderWitch lets you program your own games.

pfft.

[Anonymous Coward]

"While maybe not the most practical platform"

Meanwhile you guys post every psp "hack" with glee.

Go fuck yourselves. Same goes to anyone else who posts "why oh why" in this thread. I hope you all choke on your PSPs.

Netstumbler?

[mooosenix]

How long until Netstumbler? A really long time, since it is closed source and a Windows application.

Kismet? Definately! I would love to see that. Kismet on a DS would rock.

And what do his friends have to say?

[Pollux]

"Hey man, check it out! I just got Linux to boot on my DS!"

"Duh, where's Mario?"

"Forget Mario! Linux boots!"

"What's Linux?"

"It's an operating system, you know, like Windows and junk, but I got it to run on the DS!"

"Does Linux play Mario?"

"No, Linux does not play Mario! But it can do so much more!"

"But it can't play Mario. What a geek."

Re:And what do his friends have to say?

[glib909]

Actually with a NES/SNES emulator linux can indeed play Mario :D

Re:And what do his friends have to say?

[tepples]

No, Linux does not play Mario!

Then what is VisualBoyAdvance for Linux?

Re:And what do his friends have to say?

[mrjb]

"Yes it can play Mario. Just wait a few more years until I get it to run MAME"

Re:And what do his friends have to say?

[Vo0k]

"But...
[launches MAME] ...it plays Space Invaders, Galaga, and a bunch of other arcade games."

*drool* "I played that when I was 6! GIMME!"

Re:And what do his friends have to say?

[Pepsiman]

Well, I'm the creator of this port, and my friends said:

"When will you get X11 running?"
and
"Cool. Much respect!"

But that could be because my friends are geeks too.

Why not Kismet?

[shakezula]

It'd make more sense to wonder about Kismet. Netstumbler is a Win32 app, no Linux port to speak of, and it's not open source.

To honor this occassion

[Anonymous Coward]

I propose that we all no longer use the letter D in our posts.

This shoul be interesting! This will give the grammar/spelling nazi's a lot of fun stuff to play with!

Hmm I on't use as much as I thought. If we eliminate from our alphabet, o you think you coul still unerstan everything I sai?

Re:To honor this occassion

[jspoon]

I propose that we all no longer use the letter D in our posts.

I propose from now on, we use only D or not D(space) in our posts.

dddddddddddd ddddddddd ddddddddddd ddddd dddddddddddddddddddd dddddddd ddddddddd ddddddddddddddddddd ddddddddddddddddddddddddddd

Grr, had to switch to lowercase to get past the filter.

Re:To honor this occassion

[Anonymous Coward]

The accepted method for bypassing the filter is as follows:

DDD DDDDDD DDDDDDDD DDDDDDDDDD DDDDDDDD DDDDDDDDD DDDDDDDDDDDDDDD DDDD DDDDDDDDD DDDDDDDDDDDD DDDDDDDDD DDDDDDD DDDDDDDDD DDDDDD DDDDD DDDDDDD

Lameness filter encountered. Post aborted!
Reason: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING.
Lameness filter encountered. Post aborted!
Reason: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING.
Lameness filter encountered. Post aborted!
Reason: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING.
Lameness filter encountered. Post aborted!
Reason: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING.

any chance

[squidsoup]

that a gameboy emulator will compile on this?

oh.. wait..

Re:any chance

[Viper_Viper]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that would be very usefull since the NDS does not play original gameboy games.

Re:any chance

[Time Doctor]

or even multiplayer portions of GBA games.

Re:any chance

[tepples]

or even multiplayer portions of GBA games.

Nintendo has announced a port of Four Swords to the Nintendo DS. Which other GBA-exclusive multiplayer action were you thinking of?

Re:any chance

[Time Doctor]

I meant that if you put a GBA cart into the DS to play versus another player on a DS or GBA, you can't. While, yes, Nintendo has a track record of porting popular properties to every platform they make, some people might like to play Advance Wars 1 or 2, instead of the future DS version.

Re:any chance

[poot_rootbeer]

That is correct. The DS's ARM processor does not have all the same modes that the GBA's does, specifically not those that emulate the Z80-like instruction set of the original GameBoy and GameBoy Color.

Re:any chance

[Anonymous Coward]

GBA Mariokart is my favourite of the series. I'll probably prefer it to Mariokart DS*, so I'd like the option of playing that multiplayer on a handheld.

You're just jealous because Tetanus doesn't have multiplayer :P ... Good game though.

*since I prefer the SNES to N64 versions

Obligatory quote...

[Anonymous Coward]

Imagine a Beowulf cluster of these!

*ducks*

Re:Obligatory quote...

[Doomstalk]

Better: In Soviet Russia, Nintendo DS touches YOU!

Re:Obligatory quote...

[macaulay805]

Better: In Soviet Russia, Nintendo DS touches YOU!

Is this an example of why reverse engineering is illegal in the USA?

Re:Obligatory quote...

[Doomstalk]

Is this an example of why reverse engineering is illegal in the USA?

Only if small children are involved.

Re:Obligatory quote...

[mikael]

Better: In Corporate America, Nintendo 64 rumblepacks YOU!

Blog, blog, blog...

[Anonymous Coward]

You were saying you wrote about this on your blog? On your blog, you say? Say, do you have a blog? Are you starving for hits or something?

Careful son, the next thing you know you'll be giving head for those hits. Don't look so fuckin' eager!

Oh Boy!

[ackthpt]

Now I'll be able to play NetHack on a DS!

or maybe I should just stick to playing it on a linux pda and stop throwing money away...

Re:Oh Boy!

[Bruno_me]

so spend $500 on a linux pda as opposed to a $150 ds?

Re:Oh Boy!

[ackthpt]

so spend $500 on a linux pda as opposed to a $150 ds?

Already have a Linux PDA :-)

Re:Oh Boy!

[Bruno_me]

bah, you people and your "money" :P

Re:Oh Boy!

[Anonymous Coward]

or maybe I should... stop throwing money away...

bah! who needs money!

Re:Oh Boy!

[poot_rootbeer]

or maybe I should just stick to playing it on a linux pda and stop throwing money away...

So where'd you buy this mythical $150 Linux PDA? I'm interested in picking one up for myself...

Re:Oh Boy!

[ackthpt]

So where'd you buy this mythical $150 Linux PDA? I'm interested in picking one up for myself...

Sadly the deal is likely long over.

Some time back there was this deal which /. covered regarding buying Zaurus PDA's from HSN for some absurdly low price and further having 25% or something like that knocked off the price for your first ever purchase from HSN. Postage and all I got mine for $175, with dock, software and everything. It's even got a little keyboard.

He needs new friends

[bluGill]

I wish I were this guy's friends. I'd be impressed, and encourage him to keep hacking.

Sadly, I have the same problem I'm sure he does: lack of friends who care about things that are important to me. Great for a game of racquetball (and I need the exercise),but they know nothing about BSD for the most part. I can't get into an argument about how BSD is better than linux because they have no clue about either. I'll bet this guy could give me some reasonable arguments in return.

Re:He needs new friends

[Poeir]

You can't count on having everything in common with anyone, really. The trick to getting along with people is to make sure what you're talking about interests them. Progressively, you'll be able to determine what they'll find interesting that you've never discussed before. After a while, you'll each begin to take an interest in one another's hobbies simply to get along better.

Note that not everyone even has the potential to be interested in a given subject; some people will never care about a subject, so there's no sense introducing them to it.

Re:He needs new friends

[Iffy Bonzoolie]

You can't count on having everything in common with anyone, really.

Or, you can just move to the Silicon Valley. That way, pretty much anyone you meet will be able to have a conversaion about Linux vs. BSD (or Emacs vs. VI or Mac vs. PC).

But, if you do come, please bring at least 3 single women in the 18-35 age range.

-If

Re:He needs new friends

[owlstead]

Pft, you think you are unlucky? I lived in a rural area in the Netherlands when I got my first computer, a Z80 based MSX. No internet, my parents would not have let me have a modem, and all the guys that got computers (the whole handfull of them) only were interested in C64 games. Fortunately it came with a BASIC manual. Seriously, find some computer club or something in your neighbourhood, or place some ad in your local newspaper under the nerd seeks nerd section.

Re:He needs new friends

[XMunkki]

Sadly, I have the same problem I'm sure he does: lack of friends who care about things that are important to me.

Heck I have the same problem too.. Why when I even say the name 'blugill' most of them go like "wtf have you been smoking man"..

Re:He needs new friends

[Anonymous Coward]

What that guy said about Rochester? Same goes for McMinnville, Oregon. Except I don't think we have any clubs.

I have a whole lot of friends and acquaintances... of them, my cousin and some people from the 'net know anything computer related. And my wife, but that's because I need someone to talk with, and she married me.

Eventually?

[wantedman]

Piracy always comes first. That's where the profit comes from.

It's linux that's riding the coattails of piracy, not vice versa.

Re:Eventually?

[Frodo Crockett]

Are you a moron, a troll, or both?

This is Cool

[linguae]

This seems cool, and it reminds me of when Amid Singh ran some ancient Unices on his GBA emulator. Pretty impressive, it can only get better. Makes me a little more interested in shelling out the $149 for a Ninetendo DS; I can see a lot of usefulness in having an ultra-portable *nix system around me at all times. I wonder if there are any small keyboards for the Nintendo DS?

Now if only NetBSD does a port....

Re:This is Cool

[Grey Ninja]

I wonder if there are any small keyboards for the Nintendo DS?

Well, this is where I think the DS really kicks ass. I wouldn't imagine it would be all that difficult to code a software keyboard on the touch screen, and just have the user point to the letters he/she wants to type. I am giving some serious thought to actually doing this... after I evaluate the risks.

Re:This is Cool

[ryanr]

You know the built-in software does that, right?

Or did you specifically mean for the uCLinux port?

Re:This is Cool

[Grey Ninja]

Yes, I know that Pictochat does that. It was in response to the grandparent's post that he wanted a small keyboard for the DS for use with Linux.

Re:This is Cool

[Anonymous Coward]

Dasher would be a much better choice than a keyboard.

Re:This is Cool

[Pepsiman]

The NDS linux port is based on the GBA linux port:
http://wwwhsse.fh-hagenberg.at/Studierende/hse0200 6/uclgba/

A touchscreen keyboard is being worked on.

Re:This is Cool

[Anonymous Coward]

As fast as hunting and pecking with a stylus is (hint: it isn't) I think I'd rather be able to plug in one of those foldable Palm keyboards and use the two screens for data display instead.

now that we got that taken care of

[sakura the mc]

how come no one is rushing to run a bsd on the DS? or even the PSP?

no love man, no fucking love at all.

Re:now that we got that taken care of

[thinkliberty]

Because... BSD is dead of course.

Obligatory

[lheal]

Imagine a landfill full of these.

Oh, that's not right ... what is that line? Beowulf cluster, that's it.

Imagine a landfill full of Beowulf clusters of these.

Still not the right ring to it.

In Soviet Korea, only old people play Nintendo.

that's alright

[Anonymous Coward]

BSD is dying anyway. Netcraft confirms it.

Actually this has a lot of potential

[Frangible]

The DS has two cartridge ports for potential storage, Wifi, and the bottom screen could serve as a soft keyboard. The DS has enough CPU power, but is kinda low on RAM. Still, if this was developed enough, it'd be a decent and inexpensive Linux machine with a lot of possibilities.

Re:Actually this has a lot of potential

[bill_kress]

The ports are different and I kind of wonder if you could access them both at once anyway.

I think the thing that's going to suck is the GBA port is probably more adaptable, there are bunches of non-nintendo development kits for it and it's form factor would be perfect for adding external ports (USB? Memory stick?), yet when it boots up in that mode one of the screens always seems to be disabled (the GBA only had one screen).

Hopefully it's not either/or, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Keep at it guys! I'll buy your linux cart in a second if it has a music player and can hold 500K worth of music.

Re:Actually this has a lot of potential

[ChronoReverse]

It's been confirmed and demonstated for a while already that you can use both ports at the same time. Some games from Nintendo are going to use this feature. They've also found ways to execute code from the GBA slot and still have access to all the functionalities of the DS.

Re:Actually this has a lot of potential

[bill_kress]

Very cool. Thanks for the info, and sorry for the misinformation. It was assumptions based on how the thing works when I play pokemon. Not very scientific.

racquetball

[jscott]

If you ever find yourself in Rochester, NY [I apologize, for one, but] you can espouse on the virtues of BSD vs Linux with me.

My treat at my club.

keyboard

[spir0]

I'm holding off buying one until the bottom screen has a graffiti input region, or a virtual keyboard. grepping webserver logs using regexp's will be a fucking bitch - worse with the d-pad.

Yuo forgot the B A

[glrotate]

up up down down left right left right B A start

Re:Yuo forgot the B A

[Anonymous Coward]

it was b a select start the way I remember.

Re:Yuo forgot the B A

[Anonymous Coward]

that's for 2 players

Re:Yuo forgot the B A

[jettoblack]

No, the "select" is for 2 players. "UUDDLRLRBA Start" is for 1 player, "UUDDLRLRBA Select Start" for 2.

Re:Yuo forgot the B A

[Kirby-meister]

The developers over at Konami at least have a sense of humor about it (or maybe they just got tired of the damned code)...but I believe it was in Super R-Type for the SNES, if you pause and do up up down down left right left right B A start, your ship would explode and you'd die :)

Re:Yuo forgot the B A

[Anonymous Coward]

up up down down left right left right B A B A select start. Thats my password. I mean.... that was the Contra cheat.

Re:Yuo forgot the B A

[Anonymous Coward]

up up down down left right left right b a select start

two players :)

Re:Yuo forgot the B A

[default luser]

Yes, the code still worked, they just messed with people's heads. Do it the new way, you get lots of goodies. Do it the old way, you die :D

Instead of doing Left-Right-Left-Right on the D-pad, you had to do L-R-L-R on the shoulder buttons.

Yes, I remember dying many times because I forgot to switch the buttons.

Re:Yuo forgot the B A

[Tribbin]

You forgot the 'select' before start, you loner!

The "why"...

[Kjella]

Not only for the technical accomplishment, but for the sheer, "why?" factor...

I'm guessing because it hasn't been done before. I must admit I found most of the exercises in school boring, partly because they had already been solved. Many people don't want to be the 235,523th to create an MP3 player.

Making a OSS program copying closed source software isn't very creative either. Most "serious" applications and stuff have been done already, and so many of the projects left have more or less no reason. They're simply a challenge, and one you wish to solve on your own. No knocking down open doors, no "answer" to check against.

As much as it may seem trivial, creating something unique is a part of many people's self-realization. Some create a piece of art, some decorate their home or garden, some create a new piece of software. There's a tremendous feeling of achievement there you could never get by mere copying.

Kjella

Re:The "why"...

[Storlek]

I'm guessing because it hasn't been done before.

What, running Linux on some weird piece of hardware? Yeah, no one's ever done that.

Re:The "why"...

[Feztaa]

235,523th

Ah, the two hundred and thirty five thousand, five hundred and twenty thirth, eh?

I only mention it because I actually wrote something similar recently and I thought the word "twenty thirth" was pretty funny ;)

Re:The "why"...

[MrYotsuya]

I only mention it because I actually wrote something similar recently and I thought the word "twenty thirth" was pretty funny ;)

Sssh. He doesn't like his lisp being pointed out.

Re:The "why"...

[Viol8]

"Many people don't want to be the 235,523th to create an MP3 player."

I think you mean "Many people don't want to call out to an mp3 API written by someone else who did all the hard work". If so many people in your school can understand and implement the actual MP3 algorithms then you must be attending a special undercover college of geniuses.

"There's a tremendous feeling of achievement there you could never get by mere copying."

And no ones ever tried to run linux on some inappropriate gadget before. Nope , this is a totally unique achievment. *cough*

Re:The "why"...

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh, its 235,523rd, dummy. :-P

Re:The "why"...

[Anonymous Coward]

Heck, it can run on a dead badger!

But here's a real challenge for all those aspiring kernel hackers out there. Make it run on a politician's brain. Running an OS on something with no processing power...now that's an accomplishment.

Re:The "why"...

[m50d]

Why bother? And you don't need to understand the algorithms to implement them. But seriously, even if you're a bona fide genius it's unlikely you'll do better than mad, in performance and quality, so why do you need to reimplement it? I wrote my mp3 player because I didn't like the UI of the alternatives, I was perfectly happy with the decoding algorithm.

Re:The "why"...

[FyRE666]

I don't think you'd need to be a genius to do that. I remember back in the day when I was learning x86 assembler on my old 486. This was back when WFW+DOS was the standard install, and I decided to write my own DOS program to connect to bulletin boards - no, I didn't have to as there plenty to download, but the sheer thrill of finally getting something to work after days of writing the low level interrupt handler for the UART, the flow control, and finally the front end (which to be honest was pretty rough and ready!) was well worth it.

Shortly after I went on to write a TCP/IP stack with simple telnet client built in to access my first real ISP (demon internet). It's kind of like building your own kit car, and then blasting it around the roads - sure, it'll likely have problems, and maybe fall apart, but while it's working, it's hard to keep a grin off of your face.

Somehow, calling someone elses code to do everything for you just doesn't have the same kick...

PARENT TROLL?

[Anonymous Coward]

The parent post is the funniest thing I've read on slashdot all week. Why is it modded troll? Probably because the moderators don't have a sense of humor.

Re:PARENT TROLL?

[Anonymous Coward]

Imagine a landfill of +5 insightful modpoints.

PassMe

[tepples]

Find a way to boot off of a flashcart DS cart

There is already the PassMe method, which boots from a GBA card through an adapter in the DS slot. Details on dspassme.com

and fuck

You completely miss the point of Feel The Magic.

Re:PassMe

[barawn]

There is already the PassMe method, which boots from a GBA card through an adapter in the DS slot. Details on dspassme.com

Or the WiFiMe method, which boots from a GBA card with a PC with a wireless card. Only a few chipsets supported right now, though.

Then there's the FlashMe modification, which is a firmware patch. That's the best option, but of course, it requires modding the DS (and having either WiFiMe or PassMe available once for getting an ID #). It's an incredibly minor mod (bridging two pads).

Re:PassMe

[mcc]

The passme sticks out of the case in a really ugly way, necessarily requires the use of both slots, and requires you to buy a gba flashcard. I think I'll just wait for the DS flashcarts. I want something I can take to Panera Bread.

Re:PassMe

[Zigg]

You're assuming that's possible. Nintendo really did their homework on DS cards this time around.

Besides, if you're willing to flash custom firmware, you can skip the PassMe after you've updated said firmware with homebrew.

Re:PassMe

[Abcd1234]

It isn't even a mod, in the usual sense. Just get a piece of bare wire and stick it in a hole in the battery compartment of the DS for the duration of the flash to short the pads... that's it. After that, your DS will happily boot code from the GBA slot. I've done it myself using the WifiMe method, and it worked like a charm. And the beauty is all you need is a supported WiFi card (a recent Linksys will do the job).

Re:PassMe

[pnice]

The closest you will get right now is at http://www.neoflash.com/

Emulator

[dolphinling]

So where can I get a Nintendo DS emulator so I can try this out?

Re:Emulator

[oGMo]

Preferably one that runs on Linux...

Re:Emulator

[CapnOats.com]

Google?

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=nds+emulato r

Re:Emulator

[Pepsiman]

DSlinux does not yet work in iDeaS.

I'm working with the author to get this fixed.

None of the other DS emulators emulate both CPUs, so you can currently only run DSlinux on a real DS.

Re:Emulator

[CapnOats.com]

Sorry, I never realised it would use both processors.

The only dev work I've done on the DS has been fairly small, my gba flasher is playing up so everything I've done, I've kept as compatable with the emus as possible.

Is there any particular reason it needs both processors, what functions is it providing at this stage that aren't available via emulation?

Re:Emulator

[Pepsiman]

DSLinux is built as a single binary, not as a boot binary that loads an ARM7 binary and an ARM9 binary.

Emulators that just emulate the ARM9 assume that the ARM9 binary will be loaded into RAM by the ARM7.

With DSLinux, the ARM9 code is running from ROM to leave as much RAM free as possible.

The ARM7 isn't currently used after booting, but it is used during boot to give the ARM9 access to the ROM.

iDeaS is the only emulator that supports running binaries built like this.

Mind the key layout

[tepples]

I wouldn't imagine it would be all that difficult to code a software keyboard on the touch screen, and just have the user point to the letters he/she wants to type.

Don't lock yourself into QWERTY or Dvorak. Typing on a touch screen resembles typing with one finger more than anything else, but the QWERTY and Dvorak key layouts are designed to alternate keypresses between hands, which isn't always the best choice for single-finger typing. Look at Fitaly for inspiration.

I am giving some serious thought to actually doing this... after I evaluate the risks.

What risks, other than a possible patent on the Fitaly layout?

Re:Mind the key layout

[Grey Ninja]

I am giving some serious thought to actually doing this... after I evaluate the risks.

What risks, other than a possible patent on the Fitaly layout?

I meant the firmware upgrade. Sorry, I know I wasn't all that clear. One thing at a time though. I just ordered a new wireless card, and maybe in a few weeks I can start contributing code.

Get a flash card...

[Hamster Lover]

and download Goomba. Full speed and sound for Gameboy games. Gameboy color games are not emulated (yet).

Nothing like classic Zelda or Tetris on the beautiful DS screen...

Goomba, the GB mono emulator

[tepples]

The Nintendo DS plays many original Game Boy games just fine through Goomba and a GBA memory card. It's the GBC-only games that need a new DS-native emulator.

Re:That's awesome...

[Anonymous Coward]

I've seen people Karma whore, but...

oh never mind

Linux PDAs and unemployed Slashdotters

[tepples]

Already have a Linux PDA :-)

And I already have a GBA flash cart, which is 2/5 of the $250 cost of this Linux hack. How did you manage to get a decent job? All I can get, even with this resume, is "Sorry, we went with another candidate".

Re:Linux PDAs and unemployed Slashdotters

[BumbaCLot]

You post anarchist and civil disobedience crap on the same website you send employers to and live in Indiana? And wonder why you can't get a job?

Ideas?

[tepples]

So where can I get a Nintendo DS emulator

I don't know. Any iDeaS?

Re:Ideas?

[dolphinling]

Yeah, but that's a Windows program.

So I guess I'll have to go Linux -> Wine (is not an emulator!) -> iDeaS * -> Linux. Hmm... This brings up interesting possibilities...

* Is that an acronym of iaDSe, for "is a DS emulator"?

yes, but....

[codergeek42]

does it run Linux?

Desktop Linux Market Survey

[Anonymous Coward]

Not entirely related, but Slashdot didn't run the story so I thought I would post it here at least: Desktoplinux.com has released the results of their 2004 Desktop Linux Market Survey. abeNd.org has the details

Oh, wow.

[Blacken00100]

DSLinux guys, I hereby award you the Woolen Spork of Uselessness. And maybe a six-pack too.

Re:Oh, wow.

[Blacken00100]

Someone lacks a sense of humor. Nintendo fanboys make me giggle. :)

Re:Oh, wow.

[stealth.c]

Are you kidding? This might be the first real use for the DS--a dual-screen Linux PDA. It certainly isn't going to make it as a gaming platform.

Re:Oh, wow.

[Blacken00100]

Shh, don't say such heresy, the fanboys will kill you. (And for the record, yes, I was kidding. Dolts.)

Hey!

[3.5 stripes]

It's not completely obsolete!

Plus, mario64 DS fucking rules.

How long to Netstumbler ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Erm quite a while I would think...Netstumbler is for Windows...Linux people use kismet.

It doesn't replace funtions, only adds

[joda]

With a firmware update created by homebrewers that replaces the DS's ability to run GBA games with a new ability to run DS-mode code from the GBA slot.

Not really. What the FlashMe modification does is: implement a check whether a DS-binary is present on a cart in the GBA slot. If so, it points arm7 code execution to the binary; if not, it loads up the ordinary firmware with unaltered functionality (this includes playing GBA-games). Kinda nifty!

Re:It doesn't replace funtions, only adds

[Zigg]

Ooo, that's new. Very interesting.

I'll probably wait till my warranty's up though. :-)

What I'd like to see

[JFMulder]

Is a VNC client or X11 client for the machine. This way, I could be somewhere else in my house, and check my emails from my DS, instead of going to my computer. Or I could check something on the web from the couch in living room.

Or modify the kernel so that an attempt to read any file actually streams it from the network to your DS for execution or editing.

Re:What I'd like to see

[Pepsiman]

Is a VNC client or X11 client for the machine. This way, I could be somewhere else in my house, and check my emails from my DS, instead of going to my computer. Or I could check something on the web from the couch in living room.

Somebody needs to work out how to program the registers for the wifi in the ds first.

VNC and X11 should both be possible.

Or modify the kernel so that an attempt to read any file actually streams it from the network to your DS for execution or editing.

That's called "nfs", there's no reason why this wouldn't work.

Re:What I'd like to see

[JFMulder]

Yeah, but doesn't the kernel expect the kernel modules and everything else concerning itself to be local? I'm talking a truly network based os, where everything from the bootloader to the kernel and the applications are streamed and cached in ram. Use a cache with proxy's that remove files from memory when they are not used and when they are again are brought back to memory.

Re:What I'd like to see

[Anonymous Coward]

No. That can never happen.

You can't network the bootloader, because then it wouldn't boot. You can't network the kernel, because it starts before the network is up. You can't network the kernel modules, because network modules ARE kernel modules. The only way to do these things would be with a very custom firmware.

The applications, sure. That's called nfs.

Re:What I'd like to see

[JFMulder]

Well, the DS can put itself in listening mode (no game required, just from the main menu of the DS os) and wait for data to come, and then execute it. Someone could write a bootloader than uses te Wifi connection to load the initial kernels bits, then have an implementation of fopen that actually opens a network connection. I know NFS is not there yet, but there's no reason why a stripped down barebone wifi implementation could be used in that fopen. It would be hard, but it's not unconcievable.

Re:What I'd like to see

[vidarh]

Network booting is an old concept. A lot of ethernet cards will come with a slot for a boot prom, or with built in support for network booting. Once you've loaded the kernel you already have all the support you need (provided you compile in the right drivers) for loading everything else via the net (via NFS for instance, as mentioned by someone else). And the "cache" you're talking about is already there - you get it for free. Applications will be paged in via the filesystem (which means over the network if you use NFS) and can remain available until the memory is needed for something else. People have been doing more or less this for decades with assorted OS's. How do you think people make disk less workstations boot? It's around 10 years ago since I used my first diskless Linux workstation, and it certainly wasn't something new then.

VoIP?

[SupremeSpod]

Has the DS got a built in microphone?

Re:VoIP?

[KDR_11k]

Yes, below the touchscreen, slightly to the left.

Welcome to the playground ..

[Anonymous Coward]

Where it's all Fun and games..

They're all like fucking girls.
and BOYS.

It's all like being lost inside a never ending
fucking playground. ....

FOREVER.

The older they get .. the younger and stupider.
they get.

Are there any REAL people ... around?

The real question is...

[Anonymous Coward]

Does it run Linux? ..... FUCK!@#$

cowboyneal shut up

[xshader]

cowboyneal doesnt know what he is talking about.

>How long until Netstumbler?" While maybe not the
>most practical platform, it's impressive on its
>technical merit.

um, netstumbler? didnt he just say they got linux booting? netstumbler does not run on linux (afaik). try kismet, you dumbass. not the most practical platform? i think he doesnt know what he is talking about. it is much more "practical" than the PSP just because of the touchscreen alone.

Sheesh

[Beefslaya]

The lengths people will go to to play TuxRacer on a different platform.

Next Week:

Java driven toilets? Yes, messy code for your messy commode.

er...why?

[XO]

Why is this impressive on it's technical merits?

Cell phones are more powerful now than computers 5-8 years ago that can still run modern Linux implementations just fine, let alone video game machines.

Hell, there's probably digital watches that are more powerful than computers that can still run modern Linux implementations.

You can network the kernel modules just fine.

[adb]

You build a kernel that includes the two modules you need (network card and nfs) to get access to all the other modules. It's Not Hard. So all you need on the device itself is a bootloader and the core of the kernel.

game emulation?

[Anonymous Coward]

So, can I run am emulator on this thing and play some games?

Simple Shell

[Anonymous Coward]

Simple SHell == ssh, right? Where do they get the "A" in sash.

Please help me

[tepples]

You post anarchist and civil disobedience crap on the same website you send employers to and live in Indiana?

Anarchist? Which? Do you consider any writing that disagrees with some of the more allegedly egregious aspects of copyright law "anarchist"? I don't understand which page you're talking about.

And as for the page explaining the Bono Act, would you consider all Geocities sites to be "on the same website"? Specifically, If I tell someone "pineight.com", then can anybody get to the civil disobedience stuff by following links?

If it's the same as it was 6 months ago,

[StarKruzr]

Opie's default handwriting rec is AWFUL.

Re:If it's the same as it was 6 months ago,

[BlueLightning]

Actually it's no worse than WinCE's, other than the fact that Opie doesn't do recognition outside of the writing area.

Why the hell?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why the hell do Linux nerds try to stuff Linux down every single orface it'll fit? Seriously, nobody gives a shit about being able to run Tux Racer on the DS.

Neither

[wantedman]

Linux Console development requires the same tools developed for pirated use. There is no console Linux unless that console can run unsigned code, which is the same aim as piracy.

Linux development has not created new piracy techniques, but piracy has created new places for Linux.