The Star Wars Money Machine

Darth Cola writes " The Star Wars franchise has made George Lucas plenty rich. But his fortune is only a peice of a much bigger financial pie, one which Forbes.com estimates at just shy of $20 billion. They have a rundown of the Star Wars financial empire, and a market by market breakdown of where the money comes from." From the article: "It all started with a story treatment, handwritten in pencil on a few sheets of lined yellow legal paper. That's all that existed of the multibillion-dollar financial empire, now known as the Star Wars universe, when filmmaker George Lucas sat down in 1974 to write what, within three years, would be the biggest meteor to hit Hollywood since there's been a Hollywood."

Comments

Exclusive: Who Is 'PJ' Pamela Jones of Groklaw.Net

[Anonymous Coward]

Exclusive: Who Is 'PJ' Pamela Jones of Groklaw.Net?

Pamela Is A 61-Year-Old Jehovah's Witness Who Lives In A Shabby Genteel Garden Apartment In Hartsdale, New York

By: Maureen O'Gara
May 7, 2005 09:15 PM

A few weeks ago I went looking for the elusive harridan who supposedly writes the Groklaw blog about the SCO v IBM suit.

The now-famous opinion-shaping open source leader Pamela Jones, aka "PJ," doesn't give conventional face-to-face interviews. Never has, near as anyone knows. All communication is virtual. Only one person in the world has ever claimed to have met her - in the pressroom at LinuxWorld in Boston complete with a Pamela Jones badge - and described her as a fortyish reddish-blonde who giggled a lot.

[Photo: May 7, 2005 12:37 PM - 304 North Central Avenue, Hartsdale, New York. The last known address of Pamela Jones, as the superintendent of the building calls it, Ms. Pam Jones.]

Oh yeah? Wonder what cold crème she uses.

Pamela Jones is a 61-year-old Jehovah's Witness who lives in a shabby genteel garden apartment in desperate need of an interior decorator on a heavily trafficked commercial road at 304 North Central Avenue in Hartsdale, New York. Hartsdale is in Westchester and Westchester is IBM territory.

See, even though Groklaw treats cell phones like they were Kleenex and changes its unpublished numbers regularly, one number it left with a journalist led to this flat and - wouldn't you know it but - some calls from there had been placed to the courts in Utah and to the Canopy Group so obviously this just isn't any Pamela Jones.

Pamela has lived in apartment 1A for 10 years at least, according to the super, who says he's watched people move in, have children, and the children marry and move away.

Now, this isn't your usual anonymous New York apartment. It's practically a self-contained village where the super goes for the old ladies' groceries when there's snow on the ground and people know each other's business.

[Photo: May 7, 2005 12:41 PM - 304 North Central Avenue, Hartsdale, New York. The last known address of Pamela Jones.]

But the super didn't know much about Pamela except that she had a computer, worked at home (maybe sometimes) for a lawyer, was "paranoid" - his word - and "sensitive to smells."

He remembered how he was cleaning paintbrushes one day and she came running down the stairs screaming "Fire."

She was also missing and had been for weeks.

Nobody there knew where she was.

She had up and disappeared one day, and the super was worried about her. He said her son had dropped by and he didn't know where she was, and that some strange man that "nobody knew," as the super described him, had tried to get into her apartment while she was gone - the Medeco lock she had had installed on her door - something nobody else in the complex seemed to feel a need for - was more expensive than the door. But, as it happened, the super said, she had just sent in her rent in an envelope postmarked Connecticut.

Like an episode out of "Where in the World is Carmen San Diego," the trail led to 10 Bittersweet Trail in Norwalk, Connecticut, 24 miles away. Sure enough, parked in the driveway was Pamela's car, just as the super had described it, a dark gray '90s Japanese number with a bunch of Jehovah Witness pamphlets tossed on the backseat.

The woman at the house, Barbara Jones Sharnik, told a disjointed story. She didn't know Pamela, Pamela hated her, Pamela wasn't there, Pamela left her car there because it got bumped, Pamela left her car there because she left town, and so on.

Afterwards Barbara called the cops, and then the cops called the number we left with her and the cops said that she was Pamela's mother and that Pamela was on the run and had shacked up with her mother because she had gotten "threatening mail" weeks before and that she had just gotten spooked again because "people were getting hurt around [my] stories" and had lig

George Lucas

[Anonymous Coward]

He sat down to write Star Wars? I thought he just made it up as he went along...

Re:George Lucas

[NextGaurd]

Apparently he had to force himself to write Revenge of the Sith - including setting fixed hours to be a at a desk... no wonder it's "dark."

Re:George Lucas

[ShadowBlasko]

Last night someone posted a link to the orginal reviews. Included in the review for Return of The Jedi was this little gem:

Will George Lucas "go Hollywood" now that he's joined filmdom's elite? Not likely, the San Francisco-area resident indicates in a recent interview with Rolling Stone magazine. When asked about the folks who run the film industry, Lucas replied, "They're rather sleazy, unscrupulous people. L.A. is where they make deals, do business in the classic corporate American Way, which is screw everybody and do whatever you can to make the biggest profit."

I laughed until I cried.

Source: Saint Petersburg Times (pops)

Re:George Lucas

[uberdave]

... of course, it doesn't say WHERE he sat down to write it.

Re:George Lucas

[Sebadude]

The fact that he was extremely successful doesn't automatically mean that he screwed everybody and did whatever he could to make the biggest profit.

Of course he took advantage of starwars' success, but who wouldn't have? That doesn't make him sleazy and unscrupulous.

Re:George Lucas

[ShadowBlasko]

Oops. I meant the review for Empire Strikes Back. But the sentiment remains.

Re:George Lucas

[ShadowBlasko]

"That doesn't make him sleazy and unscrupulous."

No, admittedly it does not.

However, I don't know how old you are, but I am 32. I barely remember seeing the orginal Star Wars in the theaters. I remember thinking it was neat, and that the people around me were totally and completely awestruck.

It was a turning point in US Cinematography, as well as Science Fiction in general. Star Trek was still dead, Galactica was camp, and out of nowhere came this shining new well crafted "Space Opera".

It was truly a defining moment for the science fiction culture, as well as a generation of filmgoers. Then came Empire. Still good, not quite as fast paced, and obviously written with sequal in mind. It also introduced us to the notion that spoilers could get your ass beat in the lobby.

Jedi was the turning point. As many have said, it took something near and dear to many, and almost religious to some, and turned it into a marketing machine for action figures.

That hurt.

As time has passed, it has become clear that Mr Lucas does not understand (or understands all too well, but does not care) how important his creation was and is to many many people.

He has changed it, manipulated his fans, and slowly bled every penny he could, and with them every feeling that it is something more than just a film, from his fan base. He refuses to release the orginal 3 movies in their original formats on DVD. Do you realize that some people actually bought laserdisc players JUST to see that!

He took something we loved, and used it against us. He has proven that the $ is all he cares about. Thats why many people feel he is "sleazy and unscrupulous."

Re:George Lucas

[awing0]

How true, I'm working on getting the originals in laser disc format. I've already got a player. Sadly, my VHS copy of A New Hope was ruined in a hungry VCR. My online handle is named after a ship from the rebel fleet. Now, I couldn't care less about Star Wars. After seeing the "improved" originals and Episode 1, I was disgusted. Lucas can keep his stuff, I'm not making him any richer.

Re:George Lucas

[Anonymous Coward]

Nobody considered Star Wars to be good science fiction until years later. When it came out it was widely recognized for what it was -- Good ol' fashioned campy Flash Gordonesque pulp with snazzy sfx.

In the 80s and 90s, Lucas put a lot of effort into convicing people that Star Wars was Great Art and he was a Great Artist And Thinker. All that Joseph Campbell stuff that Lucas read in English Lit 101. Funny how people still see "Indiana Jones" for what it is (good fun, with Nazis!) and haven't been marketed into thinking it was some sort of pinnicle of drama like they have with Star Wars.

Re:George Lucas

[Anonymous Coward]

"He took something we loved, and used it against us."

Sorry to be the one to tell you this, but... grow up!

Star Wars is his child. He has the right to make whatever he wants with it. I would't blame him for trying to make money out of it.

If you liked the films, why worry about the merchandising. Nobody obligued you to buy anything.

George Lucas was one of the few "creators" in Hollywood that decided to keep the rights to merchandising. ALMOST everybody else gave their rights to the filming company. I'm quite sure that they would have done the same if they could.

How many sequels did you think you could get with the same quality or originality as the first film?

Sorry again for the critic and for posting as AC but I can't stand that attitude.

I don't have a suscription and never will!!!
Joseph Garnet

Re:George Lucas

[Slider451]

Star Trek was still dead

True.

Galactica was camp, and out of nowhere came this shining new well crafted "Space Opera".

Galactica didn't come out until after Star Wars, riding on its coattails, as did Buck Rogers.

The only 70s SF shows of any significance I can think of that came out before Star Wars were Space:1999, another timeless classic that has aged quite well; and Dr. Who, when Tom Baker was the Doctor.

Re:George Lucas

[ccmay]

Of course he took advantage of starwars' success, but who wouldn't have? That doesn't make him sleazy and unscrupulous.

No, but it's pretty comical nonetheless, to see him get holy and self-righteous about all that icky profit, then turn around and sell us Ewok dish towels and C3PO toilet brushes.

Typical empty-headed Hollywood liberal, running down free-market capitalism between bites of caviar and lobster. Fuck them.

-ccm

Re:George Lucas

[murdocj]

The only 70s SF shows of any significance I can think of that came out before Star Wars were Space:1999, another timeless classic that has aged quite well;

You're kidding, right? Space: 1999 was on a par with Lost in Space. If the Razzies had existed back then (and maybe they did) it would have gotten worst plots, worst acting, worst special effects, and probably a lifetime worst achievement award

Re:George Lucas

[techno-vampire]

Space:1999, another timeless classic that has aged quite well...

Space 1999 was crap when it came out and it's still crap. If you want good SF from that era try either Blake's 7 or Saphire and Steel, although the latter comes closer to urban fantasy.

Re:George Lucas

[Anonymous Coward]

Lucas can keep his stuff, I'm not making him any richer.

So, in other words.. you have the torrents, right?

Re:George Lucas

[pbaer]

"It was truly a defining moment for the science fiction culture"

Technically it's not science fiction because it could never happen. For it to be science fiction it needs to be a futuristic world that our world has the possibility of becoming. We may end up with deathstars, tiefighters, lightsabers etc. but the force (magic) will never exist so it's fantasy not sci-fi.

Re:George Lucas

[Anonymous Coward]

Christ you are pathetic. The movies were all fun to watch, each person has their own favourite. Personally I liked Return of the Jedi best, A New Hope, then Attack of the clones. The other two were ok. Lucas is no Orson Welles though, and Star Wars is no Citizen Kane. Lucas hasn't "sold out" one bit.

Re:George Lucas

[Anonymous Coward]

How exactly did Star Wars do anything for cinematography? It brought mass-market science fiction movies back into the mainstream, but that's about it. The cinematography in the movie is mediocre, at best.

Re:George Lucas

[Anonymous Coward]

That's got to be the most retarded definition of scifi I have ever heard.

Re:George Lucas

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not who you were replying to. But I'm 41, and remember quite well seeing the original SW in the theatres. I liked it a lot. I also liked ESB.

But from there on out: complete crap. So I stopped going. Plus, the merchandising pissed me off.

Well see - if the new one appears to be better than the last 3, maybe I'll go see it in theatres.

Re:George Lucas

[TheOldFart]

Typical empty-headed Hollywood liberal, running down free-market capitalism between bites of caviar and lobster. Fuck them.

This sounded a bit more like sour grapes from your part than reality. From the beginning, the money making (licensing and whatnot) was necessary as he was self financing everything. The very first movie was financed by Fox. It was reject time and again as something that wouldn't sell. He finally got it through. When he started working on his second film, he wanted more control over the movie. He wanted to tell a story and didn't want Hollywood to interfere on how that story was told. He was ostracized by Hollywood. Yes, he has made a shitload of money in the process but you can see it invested in moviemaking and not in some outrageous Hollywood lifestyle. What you think about Stars Wars is somewhat irrelevant. What's important is what it meant for everything that came after it. It changed the industry more than anything before or since.

The guy worked his butt off to get where he is today. I don't see it as a liberal running down free-market capitalism. I see someone with a passion for what he does and doing well. Someone who dared to criticize the way things are done in Hollywood. He never said profits are bad. What he complained about was that the artists are screwed by Hollywood and the only people making any money are the deal makers.

If you say he sounds like a liberal taking a free ride, I could say you sound like a communist cry baby pissed because it wasn't you who made the money.

Re:George Lucas

[zonker]

or how about silent running (which has douglas trumbull as director among a few other notable names like john dykstra. if you are at all familiar with ilm you will know those names.)? also, john carpenter's college movie, ala thx-1138, dark star (which gave birth to dan o'bannon's alien's saga).

there are a zillion other example's out there. here's another link you might like.

Re:George Lucas

[youknowmewell]

it took something near and dear to many, and almost religious to some...Mr Lucas does not understand (or understands all too well, but does not care) how important his creation was and is to many many people...something more than just a film, from his fan base...

I think those people that think a movie is more than just a movie need to get out more. I'm sure glad George doesn't submit to the will's of the unwashed-nerd masses, because the anal retentivness and out-spoken arrogance of many bothers the hell out of me. When did it become the storyteller's responsibility to tell the story everybody wants to hear? You might like it if he did everything you or others want him to do, but I think it is arrogant to believe GL should bow to the whims of the zealous few that absolutely HAVE to have their childhood dreams protected.

Re:George Lucas

[Anonymous Coward]

The Laserdiscs have been ripped and converted to DVD and are available as torrents.

Re:George Lucas

[cparisi]

He took something we loved, and used it against us

I am 38, and saw all the movies in the theater when they came out, and I thought Jedi was awesome.
I did not think it was created to sell action figures at all. In fact, Lucas was had no problem selling action figures before Jedi, so I do not understand this argument at all.
I actually prefer the new DVD versions to the old versions. People need to chill out.

Re:George Lucas

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, some artists say that you need all the artistic freedom to "express your ideas", but maybe it's the opposite: without a struggle you won't bother to make it good, not bother to put your soul in it. Not bother to sacrifice every last penny you own to see your vision fulfilled. After you have so much money and power, your vision is merely more money and power. And what inspires people anyway? Sitting in your million dollar mansion, or living life? And maybe freedom is something different from "a higher film budget than you could ever imagine".

Re:George Lucas

[Bobsledboy]

1) When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. Corollary: When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong. 2) The only way to discover the limits of the possible is to venture beyond them into the impossible. 3) Any significantly advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. - Arthur C. Clarke

Re:George Lucas

[Bobsledboy]

Whoops, forgot the tags. Here's a nice version =)

1) When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. Corollary: When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.

2) The only way to discover the limits of the possible is to venture beyond them into the impossible.

3) Any significantly advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

- Arthur C. Clarke

Re:George Lucas

[Slider451]

You're kidding, right?

Yes.

Re:George Lucas

[Anonymous Coward]

I had a assload of toys posters, bed covers, lunch boxes, trading cards, etc from Star Wars (IV). Everyone did. People seem to forget the merchandise was always there.

Re:George Lucas

[__aaercy5451]

ROFLMAO... With perfect timing, Fark has a link to the side-splittingly funny Store Wars (Flash animation promoting the Organic Trade Association - starring Cuc' Skywalker and Darth 'Tater). Take a look. It's hilarious!

Re:George Lucas

[SparksMcGee]

While I know many fans have a tendency to bash Jedi, I feel compelled to speak up on its behalf. Granted I saw it when I was very young, but the Ewoks never really bothered me (well, not until much later after everyone pointed out how silly they could be). While they may be cute and cuddly, they were well done as far as cute and cuddly things go. And the rest of Jedi -- Jabba's palace, the space battle over the forest moon of Endor, the lightsaber duel with Vader -- was pretty darn fine.

The point of all this is that PM was a marketing gimmick, and Jar-Jar was absurd. As a whole the movie was orders of magnitude more shameless than Jedi was, Ewoks and all. Speeder bikes were awesome. Pods were a rehash of speeder bikes that could be turned into an effective marketing tool. There's a pretty significant difference there and I think that it's important to recognize why "the original tilogy" and not just one or the other of the films was so magical--they all had the same touch of Lucas' original magic, just with evidence of his increasing experience as a filmmaker as they progressed. It's PM and AotC that represent the decline (I mean, R2D2 flew)--it's not just that they were used to push merchandise, they just lost something essential that was captured in the original trilogy

Re:George Lucas

[Skippy_kangaroo]

I'm fuzzy on the precise timing but Logan's Run predates Star Wars and Blake's 7 may.

Logan's Run had a great premise even if it was pretty much Star Trek serial fare. But...

Blakes 7 was awesome. Terry Nation was a scriptwriting genius. None of this self-contained small story junk that Star Trek, Battlestar, Logan's etc. did but a long overarching theme. A plot that extended beyond one episode. A universe where men were real men, women were real women and small fuzzy creatures from Alpha Centauri were real small fuzzy creatures from Alpha Centauri.

Re:George Lucas

[CrazyTalk]

I loved Space: 1999 when it came out! Of course, I was only about 8 years old at the time.

Re:George Lucas

[nothings]

Also the 1970 British TV series UFO (and here), which was mostly on Earth but had a nice moonbase and occasional space battles (which weren't like WW2 dogfights!). I dunno how it would stand up now, but I enjoyed it at 8.

Star Wars had a lot more context than people these days realize.

Re:George Lucas

[fermion]

I hate to say it, but get some perspective. Star Wars is just a story. Just like so many other stories behind it. The metaphorical journey of coming of age by correcting your parents mistakes, then gaining the wisdom that realizes the mistakes were not really malevolent, and forgiving, is as old as humanity. The story of being overtaken by something bigger than you is equally old. The only thing new was the setting and special effects, which really came about by the creative application of available technology. Which is why Lucas redid the movies. They are really a tour de force of technology.

If there is a problem, it is not Lucas, but the fans who do not have the maturity, wisdom, or coping strategies to move beyond the create. And I am saying this out of deep knowledge. I came of age with Star Wars. It is part of me. I could quote and reenact the movie. i buy stuff, but I do not go out and buy everything star wars. I have moved on to other equally interesting stories, and more importantly, created my own original stories by living real life. I do not indulge in fantasy by continuously reenacting someone else's creation, even though i could.

Lucas is doing what he can. Sure I was upset when he redid Star Wars. Sure I was upset when he fucked up the sequels. But because I have more in my life than star wars, and as a creative person I understand the need to create and recreate, I am not going to waste my time bashing someone else when I could be creating myself.

If Star Wars has turned into a plastic characterture, it is the fault of the fans. It is really like any religion. One can live the values, or one can build meaning idols and monuments. Is he taking advantage of stupid people. Maybe, but so what. We can't protect everyone from everything, and we can't live our lives constantly making sure we have do nothing that might be a bad influence. We all have to make a choice of how to apply our life. For example, one can fund the creating of plastic dolls, or UNICEF.

star wars

[Anonymous Coward]

Chinese hackers

peice?

[Lingur]

A peIce? What kind of ice is pe?

Re:peice?

[Anonymous Coward]

I before E except after P

Re:peice?

[Anonymous Coward]

...yellow.

That was tehn

[NextGaurd]

Previous generations may have objected to commercialism but we grew up on. I'd be surprised if every aspect of Star Wars didn't get commercialized. Besides the Yoda/Pepsi ads are funny.

He joined the dark side to get there...

[gameboyhippo]

If anybody has the DVD set, there's some interesting documentry on there that shows his struggles with the big movie producers (that is FOX) and how it was a battle between his independent creativity and the wants of the studio.

In the end he's now got the big studio and calling the shots. It's as though he joined the dark side to defeat the dark side.

Re:He joined the dark side to get there...

[srlunsford]

It seems like in those days, Lucas was much more creative than he is now...It's as if working within those budget constraints and having to face opposition from the major studios at the time forced him to create a compelling (if not slightly hokey) story that completely drew audiences in.

In my opinion, he's simply trying too hard to make a blockbuster. Star Wars was meant to be a cheesy little space opera, not some grandiose epic. While RotS may be a decent film in its own right, I doubt it will have the appeal of the original trilogy.

Re:He joined the dark side to get there...

[Anonymous Coward]

I think there were two things that really seperated the movies.

1. Limitations to inspire brilliance.
2. He had to listen to very smart people, and couldn't just say, "I'm George Lucas and you're not! Fuck you."

I think now. What we're seeing is the real George Lucas, perhaps a little mellower. But the soft lump of a man who's unafraid, this is the talent he has at rest. Jar Jar Binks, and really long fart jokes. Which aren't funny.

Re:He joined the dark side to get there...

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh phuleeeesee ..

There is no creativity in Star war stories. They are just techno-scifi flicks. Get out of the movie/TV culture and there is plenty to read out there.

Re:He joined the dark side to get there...

[zonker]

need spurs creativity; far more has been created with far less...

Jar-Jar

[zaguar]

The Star Wars franchise has made George Lucas plenty rich

Is that a direct quote from Jar-Jar?

Re:Jar-Jar

[AndroidCat]

He's not really rich, but he waved his hand and said these plastic tokens would be fine.

Re:Jar-Jar

[Anonymous Coward]

Wee-sah offended by you-sah sarcasm.

Re:Jar-Jar

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a fairly well-established colloquialism. Where are you from?

Re:Jar-Jar

[nr]

Nope, but more of british accent.

lucasarts

[Anonymous Coward]

The article says lucasarts has a plethora of new star wars releases. They only have 1 Revenge of the Sith game for PS2 & Xbox.

Re:lucasarts

[Anonymous Coward]

Republic Commando?

Re:lucasarts

[CustSerAssassin]

Curious... is there an announced release for a PC version of the RotS game?

Re:lucasarts

[Anonymous Coward]

no, according to lucasarts.com nothing for any desktop, handheld or next-gen systems.

Re:lucasarts

[LinkDeath]

Excuse me? What about this? http://www.lucasarts.com/ep3/indexFlash.html#home

ads.slashdot.org

[Anonymous Coward]

Slashdot needs to make an Ads category and stuff all of these stupid trailer/movie promos there so they are easier to ignore. Slashvertizement 23354356 for Star Wars has gotten stale. Only 34245234 more such stories to go until the mediocre movie with neat visuals actually comes out in theaters...

ROTS Movie Info ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Anakin becomes Darth Vader ... haha ... I just ruined the movie for a billion people!

Re:ROTS Movie Info ...

[medge_42]

Does that happen?

So , at least he got that bit of the story right.

Feel good

[Anonymous Coward]

City's breaking down on a camel's back.
They just have to go 'cos they dont hold back
So all you fill the streets it's appealing to see
You wont get out the county, 'cos you're bad and free
You've got a new horizon It's ephermal style.
A melancholy town where we never smile.
And all I wanna hear is the message beep.
My dreams, they've got to kiss, because I dont get sleep, no..

Windmill, Windmill for the land.
Learn forever hand in hand
Take it all in on your stride
It is sticking, falling down
Love forever love is free
Let's turn forever you and me
Windmill, windmill for the land
Is everybody in?

Laughing gas these hazmats, fast cats,
Lining them up-a like ass cracks,
Ladies, homies, at the track
its my chocolate attack.
Shit, I'm stepping in the heart of this here
Care bear bumping in the heart of this here
watch me as I gravitate
hahahahahahaa.
Yo, we gonna go ghost town,
this motown,
with yo sound
you're in the place
you gonna bite the dust
Cant fight with us
With yo sound
you kill the INC.
so dont stop, get it, get it
until you're cheddar header.
Yo, watch the way I navigate

Windmill, Windmill for the land.
Learn forever hand in hand
Take it all in on your stride
It is sticking, falling down
Love forever love is free
Let's turn forever you and me
Windmill, windmill for the land
Is everybody in?

Dont stop, get it, get it
we are your captains in it
steady,
watch me navigate,
ahahahahahhaa.
Dont stop, get it, get it
we are your captains in it
steady, watch me navigate

Re:Feel good

[Anonymous Coward]

Kool Keith, is that you?

(obligatory) Later this fall...

[a_greer2005]

Star Wars Episode 0, the Quest for More Money.

Re:(obligatory) Later this fall...

[Anonymous Coward]

Spaceballs 2: The Search for More Money

Re:(obligatory) Later this fall...

[VikingDBA]

At least we know he won't stoop as low as to make 'The Sith Lords' Christmas Special'... or we hope anyway... run Lucas run.

Phooey

[ScrewMaster]

So he's rich. I'm not. Nothing's changed.

From TFA...

[shadowmatter]

Over the course of 28 years, those films and their modern counterparts, The Phantom Menace from 1999 and Attack of the Clones from 2002, have grossed $5.67 billion globally when adjusted for inflation. Assuming an average ticket price of $6.25, that would buy more than 907 million tickets to Revenge of the Sith--enough for every person in the Western Hemisphere, with the entire population of Poland included twice.

Don't forget Poland!

- sm

Re:From TFA...

[Lingur]

Who?

Re:From TFA...

[jon787]

I'd just like to point out that Poland (and Germany, and plenty of others) are NOT in the western hemisphere.

Map

Re:From TFA...

[Nutria]

I'd just like to point out that Poland (and Germany, and plenty of others) are NOT in the western hemisphere.

I don't remember anyone claiming that it was...

And yes, I did RTFA.

George Lucas's wealth

[PCM2]

Considering how rich George Lucas is, it's interesting to keep hearing him talk about his future projects, how he wants to make smaller movies etc.

"I've earned the right to just make things that I find provocative in my own way," he's quoted as saying. "I've earned the right to fail, which means making what I think are really great movies that no one wants to see."

I always wonder what the hell that means? Earned the right to fail? Like he wasn't allowed to fail before? Exactly how much money was he supposed to make before he could buy his way into the club of mere mortals who are allowed to fail? Kind of a strange way to approach a creative ambition, I think. What mental process must go on in Lucas's head that he has to actually give himself permission to be creative, and justify it by pointing to his past commercial successes?

In general, I'd love to see a psychological profile of George Lucas sometime. Especially considering some of the truly bizarre moral commandments he's put into his recent films (missing your mom is wrong, getting angry at things is bad and makes you a bad person, if you want to be a hero then relationships are forbidden, etc.) ... don't get me wrong, I like [some of] his movies and all, but I can't help but suspect that despite all his success, Lucas is just sort of a sad, isolated, lonely, messed-up old fucker.

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[Anonymous Coward]

He has failed a lot. He sold Pixar to Steve Jobs for $10 million dollars.

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[Quirk]

"Earned the right to fail?"

I can't speak for Lucas but I did hear a similar sentiment from jazz clarinetist Artie Shaw. I'm a jazz fan and picked up on Artie Shaw in a history of jazz program, then later heard an extended series of interviews with him. He spoke of the right to fail as a prerequisite to great playing. He was of the opinion that people who play it safe and play to a known recipe aren't able to make great music. He went on to say his best playing always contained errors because he was reaching beyond his present abilities in an attempt to conquer new heights (my loose paraphrase). I think Lucas means something similar when he talks of the right to fail as the right to go beyond the status quo ante and break new ground even if in the attempt he is seen to fail.

cheers

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[cookiepus]

I always wonder what the hell that means? Earned the right to fail? Like he wasn't allowed to fail before? Exactly how much money was he supposed to make before he could buy his way into the club of mere mortals who are allowed to fail? Kind of a strange way to approach a creative ambition, I think. What mental process must go on in Lucas's head that he has to actually give himself permission to be creative, and justify it by pointing to his past commercial successes?

It means he can afford to make a movie that is not well recieved w/o it ending his career. If some unknown director is given a shot and he fails, he may never have a chance to try again. Lucas is comfortable knowing that he can make something which does not have popular appeal and still be able to come back and try again.

Maybe that's not what he means, but hey I prefer my simple interpretation to your lovely "Lucas is just sort of a sad, isolated, lonely, messed-up old fucker" conclusion.

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[Anonymous Coward]

Lucas comes across to me as an incompetent narcissist who happened to stumble across success by almost accidentally putting together "just the right combination" of film elements at the right time.

As directors go, he's really inept (that's not to say anything about his special effects talents, which are arguably more impressive).

I suspect that the reason why Lucas keeps saying things like "I've earned the right to fail" is that he is either justifying the fact that (1) he doesn't care about what he produces anymore, and just wants to make money with as little effort as possible, (2) he is sensitive to the fact that he has been producing nothing but crap since the original trilogy, and is trying to justify it as some sort of crazed genius vision, or (3) both.

The man has narcissism written all over him. It's not so much that he doesn't seem himself as being "allowed to fail" before, it's that he sees himself as not failing before. Narcissists reflexively manage to recharacterize all of their failings as positive attributes. Thus, it's not that he's failing recently, or in the future, it's that he is making "really great movies" that it just happens that "no one wants to see."

For what it's worth, I am a psychologist, but that doesn't mean anything I'm saying is worth anything because I've never met the man.

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[Xzzy]

> What mental process must go on in Lucas's head that he has to actually give himself permission to
> be creative, and justify it by pointing to his past commercial successes?

I figure a couple decades or so of relenteless abuse from moviegoers brought it about. Even when we all loved Star Wars and episode 1 hadn't released yet, very few people attributed the success of the earlier films to Lucas.

He's probably one of the most successful failures in the world. ;) Since it's likely hordes of people will line up to watch his "failures", why should he say anything else?

I've joked many times in the past that people would have lined up for days to watch Star Wars even if it had been nothing but 90 minutes of Lucas sitting naked on a stage, making lightsaber noises with his wang.

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[uberdave]

George, when's the next Star Wars movie coming out?
George, when's the next Star Wars movie coming out?
George, when's the next Star Wars movie coming out?
George, when's the next Star Wars movie coming out?
George, when's the next Star Wars movie coming out?
George, when's the next Star Wars movie coming out?
George, when's the next Star Wars movie coming out?

Here you filthy ingrates! Now leave me alone!

I think that's what he meant by "earned the right".

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[the pickle]

I think you're interpreting his meaning incorrectly. He isn't saying that lesser-known directors/filmmakers can't be creative, but I think what he is saying is that his massive successes have allowed him carte blanche with his ideas. Spielberg is another one who comes to mind as far as getting a blank check for anything he wants to do. Peter Jackson's work on LotR has given him nearly the same ability.

It's a very rare luxury in modern Hollywood to be able to do pretty much whatever you want with film and get it distributed. That's what Lucas has achieved for himself. Whether that's a good or bad thing for the rest of us, well...

p

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[mobby_6kl]

> Earned the right to fail? Like he wasn't allowed to fail before?

I think this quote can mean that now he can make an unpopular [crappy] movie and still be able to make more. You know, when a new director screws up, there's often no second chance. Either get it right the first time, or you'll never be directing anything again.

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[SupaKoopa]

"missing your mom is wrong" just because anakin missed his mom doesn't mean lucas says its wrong. the story is supposed to show how anakin changed from an innocent little boy missing his mom into Darth Vader--missing his mom isn't a cause "getting angry at things is bad and makes you a bad person," no, acting on anger is bad and makes you a bad person "if you want to be a hero then relationships are forbidden," you could use the same criticism for catholic priests (but lets not go there...) i found this part a bit weird, however, too.

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[Anonymous Coward]

Lucas was one the hottest directors/scriptwriters even before Star Wars -- he would have had a long successful career even if the first movie bombed. Since ROTJ, he's had total and complete freedom, and the only thing he came up with was "Radioland Murders". Fear of failure, or spending too much time smoking dope and swimming around in a giant pool of money?

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[Blondie-Wan]

Lucas was one the hottest directors/scriptwriters even before Star Wars -- he would have had a long successful career even if the first movie bombed. Since ROTJ, he's had total and complete freedom, and the only thing he came up with was "Radioland Murders". Fear of failure, or spending too much time smoking dope and swimming around in a giant pool of money?

Lucas had one hit before Star Wars, and while American Graffiti was big, it wouldn't have singlehandedly saved his career from feeling any effects if Star Wars had flopped.

He did a lot more than just Radioland Murders after originally finishing the original trilogy. He did most of the Indiana Jones adventures (two movies and a TV series, or everything except Raiders of the Lost Ark) and Willow, in addition to serving as executive producer on several other films by other filmmakers, for starters.

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[Anonymous Coward]

Pixar wasn't really viable until 10 years later, so that could hardly be counted as a huge failure.

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[Schwarzchild]

"It means he can afford to make a movie that is not well recieved w/o it ending his career. "

But that's nonsense. He's been able to make any movie that he wanted to make since the 80s since he has vast sums of money.

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[Arthur Dent 75]

It means he can afford to make a movie that is not well recieved w/o it ending his career.

I assume this will mean we will have to deal with another Postman disaster?

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[cliffski]

wow he must be consistantly lucky then, having been behind THX1138, american graffiti, star wars and raiders of the lost ark.
Either than or he is talented. I know hich is most likely.

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[TrappedByMyself]

Earned the right to fail?

He can fail without hurting himself because he's already a billionaire. A lesser known director could kill their career by making a bad movie.

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[Anonymous Coward]

Lucas is just sort of a sad, isolated, lonely, messed-up old fucker.

So do you feel better now?

I'd like to see a psychological profile of people who bash rich successful people just because they're rich and successful. Do you hate them, yourself, or the system you can't succeed in?

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[Mortlath]

I heard that this pre-trilogy was meant to show how relationships are important, and that forbidding love was one of the factors that brought down the Jedi Order.

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree, he's a fat fucked up old lunatic who thinks he can make movies, but just makes crap. He just got lucky that the original star wars trilogy was so well accepted, everything since then, crap.

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[LocoMan]

and Howard the Duck... don't forget the master of Quack Fu!!!... :)

Then again, he only executive produced it.. :)

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[The One and Only]

THX-1138 was almost as big a failure as Howard the Duck, commercially. It only ever became successful as an oddity for curious Star Wars fans who had come to want to see and know everything George Lucas.

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[Abreu]

Pixar wasn't really viable until 10 years later, so that could hardly be counted as a huge failure.

If Lucas had more foresight, he could have afforded to keep Pixar alive until it bloomed.

It was a bad decision

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you're a fanboy who has been emotionally hurt by something Lucas did with *his* films. I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm guessing you're angry over the digitally "enhanced" Star Wars. Or maybe you still can't get over Jar-Jar.

In any case, put your fanboy attitude away and stop over-analyzing this. What Lucas really means to say is no one can deny his success. Despite how you read the box-office numbers, Star Wars Ep. I and II were both huge hits and III will be as well. Quite a few people actually do like Eps. I and II, myself included. I have tickets for III and I can't wait until the 19th. I'm not even one of those who dresses up as Darth Vader and wields a plastic light saber. I've been something of a casual fan, but for some reason I'm really excited to see Ep. III.

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[The One and Only]

Lucas had one hit before Star Wars, and while American Graffiti was big, it wouldn't have singlehandedly saved his career from feeling any effects if Star Wars had flopped.

Even after Star Wars, Lucas would have failed miserably if The Empire Strikes Back tanked, because he took everything he made from Star Wars and American Graffiti and invested it in ESB. The first opportunity he had to fail was...Return of the Jedi.

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[Anonymous Coward]

...considering some of the truly bizarre moral commandments he's put into his recent films (missing your mom is wrong, getting angry at things is bad and makes you a bad person, if you want to be a hero then relationships are forbidden, etc.) ...

I think you're missing the point -- the person that all these bizarre moral commandments are handed down to becomes so fucked up they turn into Darth Vader!

That's not exactly praise, is it?

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like Mel Gibson and the passion.

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Alright! More "Howard the Duck" on the plans, I guess :)

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[aussie_a]

Hasn't he done that 3 times now? I, II and III?

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[johansalk]

I wish you hadn't ended your post with this "don't get me wrong, I like [some of] his movies and all, but I can't help but suspect that despite all his success, Lucas is just sort of a sad, isolated, lonely, messed-up old fucker."... up to this point I thought it had been insightful, especially your third paragraph.
I assume you probably were a formerly intelligent enough person who had been around slashdot a long enough time to use the cliche disclaimer "1) don't get me wrong", followed by "2) I like X and all, but" and then take your license to say something that's phrased in the most idiotic way.

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, but Lucas Pixar would be producing "Jar Jar goes Potty" rather than "Toy Story".

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[16K Ram Pack]

I do find it a really odd thing to say. Considering he made American Graffiti which did fantastic box office, the mighty original star wars trilogy and working on Indiana Jones, now, after making 2 (maybe 3) pieces of complete shite, he feels like he can go and experiment.

The other thing is, he is saying all this at the age of 60. Much younger directors with much smaller bank balances have gone out and made the movies they wanted to make. Look at people like Terry Gilliam, Martin Scorsese or Quentin Tarantino.

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[Teancum]

TXH-1138 was the very first film that George Lucas ever made... as a film student while attending USC (University of Southern California... one of the best film schools in the world).

It was remade with a slightly larger budget, but it was still made with what would today be called an "independent film" budget and crew. It did achieve something of an "art film" following, and made a modest profit over production costs well enough that studios considered him to be worth the risk to go onto other things like "American Grafitti". It was due to the success of that film 20th Century Fox was willing to risk supporting George Lucas on Star Wars.

Mind you that 20th Century Fox got a huge stake in Star Wars, and that is why Fox Television is now showing all of the movies this spring: 20th Century Fox has the distribution rights. Still does with Episode III (although with a substantially modified contract when compared to Episode IV:ANH).

Certainly hard-core fans of Star Wars have not hurt DVD and video sales of THX-1138, but it was already a "hit" before then.

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[Blondie-Wan]

Or Raiders of the Lost Ark.

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[The One and Only]

It did achieve something of an "art film" following, and made a modest profit over production costs well enough that studios considered him to be worth the risk to go onto other things like "American Grafitti".

That pretty much contradicts everything I have ever read. Source?

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[zonker]

the dude is getting old and i think that is part of what he's insinuating here. he's basically saying:

"i'm getting old and i no longer have to worry about critical acclaim as i've made my money, my name and my mark on the world. if the public doesn't like what i make next, fuck 'em cuz at this point i'm going to do what i want and nobody can say 'no' to me anymore. now get off my lawn and pull up your pants you jerky kids!"

quite frankly, i'd be the same way...

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[Dunkelzahn]

In general, I'd love to see a psychological profile of George Lucas sometime. Especially considering some of the truly bizarre moral commandments he's put into his recent films (missing your mom is wrong, getting angry at things is bad and makes you a bad person, if you want to be a hero then relationships are forbidden, etc.)

Apparently you missed the point. Those strictures were illustrating the level of legalism that shackled those who followed the way of the Jedi. Scruples versus morals & ethics if you will. If you follow the story of Luke Skywalker, he had attachments, he did get a bit pissed, and he still did not fall to the dark side. Its more of an illustration of the pitfalls of religious legalism than it is an expression of such.

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[Teancum]

I can give at least a couple of links to places that talk about THX-1138:

http://www.geocities.com/drazzaia/history.html
http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Bungalow/3577/l ucasnofrm.html

While I will admit that the initial release wasn't a huge success, it wasn't that difficult to break the production costs of $777,777 for TXH-1138. Even now that is considered an independent film budget. All I said was that it made back that money. Certainly Geroge Lucas was not a millionaire due to that movie.

The whole concept of when does a film make a profit is a meaty issue in Hollywood anyway, and subject to a bunch of interpretations and lawsuits.

And it is clear that American Zoetrope, through Francis Ford Coppola, was impressed enough with THX-1138 that they were willing to risk another attempt by George Lucas. Otherwise, he would never have been given the chance to try again.

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[The One and Only]

All I said was that it made back that money.

In the long term. In the short term, Lucas had to pay back Warner Brothers $500,000 for their losses on THX, and Coppola had to direct a project he wasn't initially interested in at Warner Brothers' insistence. (Perhaps fatefully, that project was The Godfather).

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[imr]

Howard the Duck.
Nuff said.

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[imr]

Have you seen other Peter Jackson movies?
He didnt need any fscking carte blanche to do what he wanted.
lotr is in fact one of his less creative work.

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[Anonymous Coward]

Comparing a movie to music is... hmm? What you mentioned is more about not getting obsessed with smaller details: who cares if you change a word around, or you pronounce it wrong, it's the general feel of the music that counts. "Failing" in the Lucas way, as a comparison, would be if no-one came to your live performance, or people walked out on it...

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[Anonymous Coward]

Awwww... diddums hear a bad word?

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[PCM2]

How do you figure that one? If Anakin had done what he was told and never got all hot-n-bothered over Padme, he never would have become Darth Vader. Period. Watch Revenge of the Sith and you'll see what I mean.

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[kubrick]

Didn't Artie Shaw give up playing the clarinet for many years because he was obsessed with perfection, and realised he'd never be able to attain it? Hardly comparable to Lucas, who even at his best was never a great artist.

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[bonzoesc]

Right, but now that he's basically paid his dues and demonstrated that he can work within tight constraints of story and whatnot, he's well-known enough to do something different that might be more in line with his other movies.

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[Quirk]

" Didn't Artie Shaw give up playing the clarinet for many years because he was obsessed with perfection, and realised he'd never be able to attain it?"

He did give up playing for many years, IIRC he quit playing sometime around the 50's, then, when he did come back it was more as a front man. He was very interested in writing and wrote a couple of books about being a side man, and his interest in writiing, along with an interest in math and precision shooting took up his time after he quit playing. I can't say that I remember his having quit playing because of an obsession with unattainable perfection. As I recall from the series of interviews his reason for quitting had more to do with his contemmpt for his audience. He thought the crowds who bought records and propelled pop icons were senseless and unable to appreciate music.

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[kubrick]

Quoting Wikipedia (never extremely reliable, but I also remember seeing this in the obits when he died...)

Throughout his musical career, Shaw would take sabbaticals where he would quit the business. He credited his time in the navy as a period of renewed introspection. He began psychoanalysis and began to pursue a writing career. In 1954, Shaw stopped playing the clarinet, citing his own perfectionism, which, he later said, would have killed him. He focused on writing, concentrating on semi-biographical fiction.

I saw him interviewed, and footage of him playing, in a documentary a while back... very talented (also from Wikipedia, "[he] was also a precision marksman, at one point ranking 4th in the United States") and a very intense guy.

I had thought it was photography, but now I'm thinking there's another artist/writer I'd read about recently who'd switched to that... my memory has been pretty poor lately. It's very annoying. :/

He thought the crowds who bought records and propelled pop icons were senseless and unable to appreciate music.

I'm not disagreeing with him there... Sturgeon's Law holds almost everywhere, after all.

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[colmore]

Film is a unique art because doing even basic work requires more money than any non-wealthy individual can supply themselves.

20 minute long senior projects by film students routinely cost in excess of $50,000 and that is with the dramatic cost-reduction of digital film, and the benefit of near-free student labor.

In hollywood earning the right to fail means you never have to worry about having a project greenlighted, and failing to make a profit doesn't keep you from making your next project.

Stephen Spielberg has earned the right to fail. He's going to get to make whatever he wants for the rest of his life. Terry Gilliam has not earned that right, studios still give him shit, and every project he takes might be the end of his career.

And while I'd love to see Lucas do something worthwhile again, I hate to say it, but Gilliam is still doing work worthy of his output from 25 years ago, and Spielberg for the most part isn't.

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[BakaHoushi]

The whole "No relationships" thing, I remember a few speeches from KOTOR. Basically, the Jedi Order feels that love makes one do irrational things. Hate leads to the Dark Side, and I think if a Sith killed your love, you'd certainly act out of hate and revenge. Sort of how Anakin acted when the Sand People killed his mother. That's why a Jedi is supposed to distance himself or herself far from family, too.

Keep in mind, neither in the game nor the movies do many Jedi actually follow this rule. There's still a lot of love, which does lead to some problems. Hey, they're only human... and Wookies, Twi'leks, etc.

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[hachete]

When Lucas could have made anything, he went on to make Revenge Of The Sith...

Spielberg's filmography http://imdb.com/name/nm0000229/ isn't exactly chock full of critical successes either. He's got a few holocaust projects to his credit but, outside of Jaws and, possibly ET, that's it. I like Sugarland Express. He's got a thing the 2ww, though, check out those credits on Medal Of Honour.

The only other people that I can immediately think of who do this sort of thing is Clint Eastwood and John Sayles. Once Eastwood had made his millions, he went on to make White Hunter, Black Heart, Bird and a few other non-commercial films. Although, looking again at his filmography, I don't think this is strictly true.

John Sayles is a better case - he writes films such as Jurassic IV - then uses it to finance films such as Lone Star and Passion Fish. But John Sayles, in his directorial persona, is strictly indy.

Come to think about it, you're barking up the wrong tree. Nobody in Hollywood does the sort of thing you say. Even Hitchcock in his day was always fighting to make his movies, and you'd a thought *there* was someone who made a banker. Carte blanche work is as rare as hen's teeth - purely because the more money you make, the more money you're expected to make, which automatically kicks in with a dampner on the risk factor. Peter Jackson has fashioned for himself a gilded cage. He's won the pinball game, is guaranteed a shot at a next movie however expectations are raised, and risk will be lessened. I guarantee that Jackson's next film will tank in some manner.

Re:George Lucas's wealth

[Anonymous Coward]

"Formerly intelligent"? Do you think the guy huffed Estees as he posted?

I've met Lucas and he sucks. If you like Star Wars that's great. I think it's alright too. Why must that make him infallible?

Hilarious

[Anonymous Coward]

Best troll ever!
You Lunix faggots really got pissed about this one, didn't you?

Re:Hilarious

[Saeed al-Sahaf]

Oh YEAH! O'Gara hit a home run on this one! The Zealots are all foaming at the mouth, spitting all over everything, just amazing...

Re:Hilarious

[Anonymous Coward]

Getting banned from LunixCon or LinsuxWorld or whatever is a badge of fucking honor. Wear it proudly, O'Gara

Re:Hilarious

[Anonymous Coward]

She's got her own site for those that want to continue reading her "stories". You'll have to Google for it, can't remember the URL...

The thing about this is that PJ/Groklaw walked RIGHT INTO THIS TRAP!

So wait

[antifoidulus]

does this mean my choice of M&M's does NOT determine my fate? That it was a cheap marketing ploy?
I thought I was a badass Sith because I chose the peanut M&Ms...but it's a lie....DAMN YOU LUCAS! DAMN YOUUUUUUUUU!!!

Re:So wait

[Aeiri]

does this mean my choice of M&M's does NOT determine my fate?

You take the blue one, and the story ends...

Re:So wait

[Anonymous Coward]

But you farted in my general direction, BASTARD!

Re:So wait

[HeliumHigh]

Ya ya ya, we know the rest... take the red one, and your wildest dreams will come true. Holy crap thats alot of gun...

Re:So wait

[goldaryn]

>> does this mean my choice of M&M's does NOT determine my fate? > You take the blue one, and the story ends... It definitely does if you're allergic to peanuts ;)

Re:That was then

[Baron_Yam]

It all went south with RotJ, which was an unashamed attempt to sell as many action figures and toys as absolutely possible to kids. With PM, we saw large portions of the movie given over to selling a video game.

Star Wars nerds ruined Star Wars the same way that Trek nerds ruined Trek - by accepting any shit thrust upon them with the appropriate branding, the producers felt free to sacrifice quality in order to broaden appeal and merchandise the hell out of the product.

In both cases, we get bland crap that doesn't stand up well to the original. Greedy producers, stupid nerds... a fatal combination.

Isn't it a bit excessive

[Anonymous Coward]

...to count Reagan's Star Wars defense program as part of the "Star Wars universe"?

It startde with the New Gods comic in 1971...

[mccalli]

I was educated regarding this in a news thread with a comic author friend of mine. Here's a link to the thread.

To quote the relevant bit:
Also, there's no point just throwing comic characters at me as if I'm saying all comics are better than film, because I'm not. I'm just saying I can blatantly see Lucas' influences and I prefered New Gods to Star Wars. (New Gods had Darkseid and the Source, Star Wars has Darth Vader and the Force. Orion is revealed to be Darkseid's son; Luke is Vader's son. New Gods had a spiritual leader/father figure to Orion called Highfather; Star Wars has spiritual leader/father figure to Luke called Obi Wan Kenobi. New Gods:1971. Star Wars: 1977. George Lucas was a comics fan. Say no more).

Sound convincing enough to me.

Cheers,
Ian

Re:It startde with the New Gods comic in 1971...

[PCM2]

What's more, apocryphal stories say Darth Vader was directly inspired by Doctor Doom, another comic book villain invented by Jack Kirby (creator of the New Gods).

Re:It startde with the New Gods comic in 1971...

[TooMuchEspressoGuy]

I'm sorry, but, while a good conspiracy theory, this is about as silly as Battlestar: Galactica getting sued because of its similarities to Star Wars back in the day.

Essentially, there are several archetypes (one could even call them "stereotypes") of the sci-fi genre that a great many filmmakers and writers have adopted for their own use. Motifs such as the villain being the hero's father, a spiritual father figure to the hero, and mystical overtones (such as the Force) can be found ALL OVER sci-fi movies and literature. Lucas was not the first to adopt them, and he undoubtedly will not be the last.

But, of course, the fact that these archetypes are being used over and over again by no means means that they cannot be used *well.* Peoples' fond memories of the original SW movies, the plot/characters of which were somewhat cliche as far as sci-fi movies go, only proves the point. Luke was the naive hero, Han the roguish "wild card", Leia the "damsel in distress", Vader the evil villain. What matters, however, is that Lucas honed each part to near-perfection, such that the characters were so believable and *human* that they didn't *seem* like stereotypes. I believe that it's this element that is sorely missing from the prequels, but that's another rant altogether!

Re:It startde with the New Gods comic in 1971...

[philntc]

this is about as silly as Battlestar: Galactica getting sued because of its similarities to Star Wars back in the day.

I had read that BG was flat out ripoff of the Book of Mormon. Similarities between BG and SW seem to be more genre oriented (space opera anyone?), than anything else.

What was the lawsuit about?

Re:It startde with the New Gods comic in 1971...

[nacturation]

What I find interesting is that Vader is essentially the German word for father (vater, IIRC). So when they dubbed the movies into German, did they have to change Darth Vader's name?

Re:It startde with the New Gods comic in 1971...

[f4vre2001]

Jack Kirby, the creator of the New Gods also created "Forever People" - which featured Mark Moonrider (sounds like Luke Skywalker) - a cowboy named Sarifan (Han Solo?) - a tall, hairy character which drove named Big Bear (Chewbacca?) and Beautiful Dreamer (Princess Leia?) - in there first issue (1970/1971) they had to rescue the Beautiful Dreamer (Leia) from the clutches of Darkseid (pronounced Dark Side - the Darth Vader character) - Jack Kirby never got the credit Flash Gordon / Kurasawa (sp?) / Campbell received for his part of inspiring Lucas. He also created / co-created a good chunk of the original Marvel Universe.

Re:It startde with the New Gods comic in 1971...

[Shadowlore]

Peoples' fond memories of the original SW movies, the plot/characters of which were somewhat cliche as far as sci-fi movies go, only proves the point. Luke was the naive hero, Han the roguish "wild card", Leia the "damsel in distress", Vader the evil villain. What matters, however, is that Lucas honed each part to near-perfection, such that the characters were so believable and *human* that they didn't *seem* like stereotypes. I believe that it's this element that is sorely missing from the prequels, but that's another rant altogether!

I would only add that it is more than the prequels that have this problem today. Sadly, most movies that use any archetypes (and few don't) fail to provide this crucial element.

Re:It startde with the New Gods comic in 1971...

[Katchina'404]

Vader means father in Dutch...

In French, they changed it to Dark Vador, but I suspect it was more for pronouciation issues.

Although I'm a netive French speaker, I was introduced to the Dutch language while still fairly young. So it's always been obvious to me that Darth Vader was just meant to be "Dark Father".

CONSUME

[Cryofan]

CONSUME

This is not...

[mbrewthx]

This is not the Story your looking for..
We don't need to see your replies.
George is still a regular Joe just like you..
Move along..

but not the Darth Vader one

[jangobongo]

...the Yoda/Pepsi ads are funny.

That one is kinda cute, but the one with Darth Vader was just sad.

A guy scratches a winning game piece that say "You win a million dollars."

Then the doorbell rings. When the guy opens the door, Vader is there. Vader says, "I am your father."

The guy deduces that Vader is just trying to get a chunk of the million he's just won and shakes his head no. Then he shuts the door in Vader's face, while Vader continues on with, "I am you brother... uncle... cousin!

When I was younger, Darth Vader was a great "bad guy" who commanded respect from everyone. He never came across as undignified.

Now he is reduced to a shill for Pepsi, as a character that people laugh at. How sad is that?

Re:but not the Darth Vader one

[Aeiri]

When I was younger, Darth Vader was a great "bad guy" who commanded respect from everyone. He never came across as undignified.

Now he is reduced to a shill for Pepsi, as a character that people laugh at. How sad is that?

You do realize that this new movie is a PREQUEL right?

In the beginning, Darth Vader was just a scam, he wasn't the big bad ass empire running fiend that he is in episodes 4-6.

Re:but not the Darth Vader one

[Anonymous Coward]

When I was younger, Darth Vader was a great "bad guy" who commanded respect from everyone. He never came across as undignified. Wow. A crusty old white man talking about another crusty old white man who never came across as undignified. What a HERB!

Well...

[Anonymous Coward]

one which Forbes.com estimates at just shy of $20 billion

Well.. it seems like someone is using the force wisely

Make it stop!

[Che Guevarra]

Yoda selling Pepsi, Chewbacca on E!, Vader selling pizzas....
Did anyone think Lucas would have learned? Out of control and horrible... I'm hugging my tie-fighter from 1974 in the closet under a pile of socks. All ewoks must die.

Re:Make it stop!

[east coast]

Think of the new products: Chewbacca's chewing ta-bacca! I'll be big time rich and corrupt the children that Lucas loves!

mwahahahahah!

Jar-Jar Cigarz!

Skywalker Malt Liquor!

Does the trail of money ever end?

Re:Make it stop!

[floron]

Chewbacca's on E? he's gonna have to be careful he doesn't overheat with all that hair...

Re:Make it stop!

[FidelCatsro]

If chewbacca was on E star wars would have been rather difrent

Chewbacca : urgh rgh wuhh wuhh ::: I love you vader man your my father too
Vader: Bring me skywalker
Chewbacca : urgh urgh wah wah urgh :: No man seriously i love you your like my brother and luke is like our son dude i love you lets dance
Vader : i grow impatiant with you wookie
Chewbacca : urgh urghhhhh: no dude seriously lets hug and let the love flow man
Vader :*chops off chewbaccas head*
Chewbacca: *last dealth gulp : ugrpp urpch wurf ::: dude Harsh man

Re:Make it stop!

[Exluddite]

"I'm hugging my tie-fighter from 1974 in the closet under a pile of socks."

Where'd you find a tie-fighter in 1974?

Re:Make it stop!

[realitybath1]

Chewbacca on E!

Is that some sort of furries' fantasy show?

Re:Make it stop!

[biobogonics]

Even worse are Star Wars promotions at Burger King. These include sign up CDs for AOL with Darth Vader on the front. How appropriate, considering what AOL did to the Internet.

AOL to TW: "Don't underestimate the power of the dark side."

Re:Make it stop!

[Anonymous Coward]

He stole it from the inside of a delorean...

Re:Make it stop!

[Dance_Dance_Karnov]

Yea, where did you get a Twin Ion Engine Fighter in '74

Re:Make it stop!

[MemoryDragon]

You forgot the appearance of the entire Star Wars cast in the Muppets show (actually that one was quite funny)

3 Words...

[KipCas]

Darth Vader Slurpie.

Re:3 Words...

[Skim123]

Today @ 7-11 I saw Star Wars Cheetos that boasted they would turn your tongue Yoda Green or Vader Black. I doubt I would ever purchase, let along eat, a food item that made such claims. Ick.

Re:3 Words...

[Doctor_Jest]

No, "I am your....Uncle" - Vader

THAT is marketing gone wrong....

Re:That was then

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess someone didn't have an Ewok toothbrush.

The ultimate geek franchise.

[Japong]

Star Wars is the ultimate franchise because even as a film it's an amlagam of marketable genres.

The original trilogy alone features:

• Lightsaber duels (swordfighting and swashbuckling)
• Interspace Battles (WWII aerial & naval movies)
• The Force (mystical fantasy magic)
• Ground battles and cantina gun fights (general war movies and Westerns)
• Exotic Space Aliens (Star Trek)
• Speeder Bikes (Car chase movies)
• Ewoks (Kinda like Care Bears, I guess. Overly Cute Buggers)
• And of course, hot brother-on-sister Luke and Leia action. (Incest XXX websites)

With all of that thrown together... in space... there's a little something for every geek. And market after market after market that you can sell games, toys, lunch boxes, books, clothing, artwork, women's delicates and more to.

Re:The ultimate geek franchise.

[daigu]

Yeah, life has never been quite the same since I got that Chewbecca g-string...

Re:The ultimate geek franchise.

[Nutria]

Interspace Battles (WWII aerial & naval movies)

GL is said to have used WW2 aerial footage when pitching Star Wars back in 1975.

hemispheres...

[Colz Grigor]

Assuming an average ticket price of $6.25, that would buy more than 907 million tickets to Revenge of the Sith--enough for every person in the Western Hemisphere, with the entire population of Poland included twice. Or enough tickets for every person in the U.S. to see it three times.

The fact that this journalist doesn't realize that Poland is in the Eastern Hemisphere leads me to question the accuracy of anything they wrote.

::Colz Grigor

Re:hemispheres...

[Anonymous Coward]

yes he does, or can you not read? i don't like you, even more so for putting :: after your name.

sincerely,
matthias

Re:hemispheres...

[Anonymous Coward]

Every person in the western hemisphere PLUS Poland. Duh. Of course he knows Poland isn't IN the western hemispher. The numbers just worked out that way. Sheesh.....

Re:hemispheres...

[Pollardito]

i'm more concerned about these $6.25 tickets, was this article written in 1980?

Re:hemispheres...

[vigour]

Poland is a member of the EU. So your point is a little pointless.
Literally speaking it is east of Greenwich, but so is most of Europe.

Re:hemispheres...

[Adrilla]

It's the average ticket price over the life of the movies.

Re:hemispheres...

[nacturation]

I read that as "and throw Poland in a couple of times", as a play on Bush's "Don't forget Poland!" line. But I suppose how you read it could work as well.

Different people's definition of sucess

[GoofyBoy]

"I've earned the right to fail"

It reminds me of an engineer who said "I knew I was sucessful when I knew I could turn down clients."

I think the point is that he wants to make something that he is happy with and screw everyone else, at thats a pretty good goal to have. You don't wear your comfy pjs and sweats on the streets because of social pressure, not because you don't like the clothing.

Alot of art is peer reviewed. Your sucess or failure depends on what others say; teachers, critics, art dealers, customers. The social pressure is huge especially in a highly visible position he has.

Re:Different people's definition of sucess

[psiphre]

Alot of art is peer reviewed.
"A lot" is two words. You wouldn't say "alittle", would you?

We can't blame that...

[Narcoleptic Electron]

It worked for Tolkien:

I have long ceased to invent ... : I wait till I seem to know what really happened. Or till it writes itself. Thus, though I knew for years that Frodo would run into a tree-adventure somewhere far down the Great River, I have no recollection of inventing Ents. I came at last to the point, and write the 'Treebeard' chapter without any recollection of any previous thought: just as it now is. And then I saw that, of course, it had not happened to Frodo at all.

[The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, 231 (#180)]

(From here)

A billion dollars and the kids are still in it

[Che Guevarra]

Mad with power, that's what he is. Wrecking the greatest franchise in movie history and he still puts his kids in the movie and lets them pick the names. Gosh damnit, I can't get more mad about it. Lucas, if you can hear this, you suck.

Spaceballs

[GlL]

Mel Brooks had it right. Star Wars started out as a cult classic, but has becoming an advertising gimmick like all of the other films out there. If you watch any Sci-Fi on TV or film you are just paying to watch a however long toy/ game commercial.

Re:Spaceballs

[TooMuchEspressoGuy]

"If you watch any Sci-Fi on TV or film you are just paying to watch a however long toy/ game commercial."

Really? Tell me, then, how much money in merchandising was made off of 2001: A Space Odyssey. Or how about Blade Runner? Farscape? Firefly?

The best sci-fi is non-marketable.

Re:Spaceballs

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, I don't know about you, but I download all my game commercials. I download most of my games too...

Re:Spaceballs

[GlL]

I'll give you Firefly and Farscape, but 2001 and Blade Runner were both so BORING that I fell asleep at the theater. The books were great, and they were written to be books, not screenplays, and there was no way that the nuances of the books would translate well into film. For another point, ANYTHING is marketable, if done correctly. Most "popular" Sci-fi is just well marketed, not always well written. Most "unpopular" sci-fi may be well written, but not well marketed. However, there has been Sci-Fi that was well written and well marketed. Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy for example. I personally didn't enjoy the film since it seemed to be more a vehicle for toys than a real tribute to the ideas and themes of Adam's books, but it was well marketed, and the original stuff was well written. The best Sci-Fi should be "marketable", of course that depends on what you define marketable as.

Re:Spaceballs

[Anonymous Coward]

> BORING

Film Noir isn't for everyone...

Forbes writers need to do better research

[Blondie-Wan]

From the first page of the slideshow sidebar linked from the last link in Slashdot's writeup:

How many times have you seen all five films? Repeat viewings are a staple of hard core Star Wars fans, and even casual moviegoers saw the original two or three times. Lucas counted on this by releasing each of the first three Star Wars films several times. Aside from the original release in 1977, he rereleased it once in 1982 and again in 1997 as a re-edited and digitally enhanced "Special Edition." Lucas did the same for the 1980 The Empire Strikes Back and 1983's Return of the Jedi.

Actually, there were quite a few more rereleases than that:

1977 - Star Wars original release
1978 - Star Wars rerelease
1979 - Star Wars rerelease
1980 - Star Wars - Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back original release
1981 - rereleases of both Star Wars (now retitled Star Wars - Episode IV: A New Hope) and Star Wars - Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back
1982 - rereleases of both Star Wars - Episode IV: A New Hope and Star Wars - Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back
1983 - Star Wars - Episode VI: Return of the Jedi original release
1985 - Star Wars - Episode Vi: Return of the Jedi rerelease

Note also that 1971's THX 1138 and 1973's American Graffiti were both rereleased in 1978 as well, More American Graffiti was released in 1979, Raiders of the Lost Ark was released in 1981 and rereleased in 1982, and Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom was released in 1984 (the only year from 1977 to 1985 that no Star Wars film got at least a limited theatrical release).

Re:Forbes writers need to do better research

[Anonymous Coward]

Calling 1978 and 1979 "re-releases" is kind of odd because it never left the theater rotation during that time. (No home video, kids). Maybe "re-print" is a better term.

Re:Forbes writers need to do better research

[Anonymous Coward]

Three official releases of ANH

See
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=releases &id=starwars4.htm

For ESB see
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=releases &id=starwars5.htm

and for ROJ see
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=releases &id=starwars6.htm

Re:Forbes writers need to do better research

[Blondie-Wan]

Perhaps that's where Forbes got its info. Those definitely aren't the only releases, though; it very definitely did have separate reissues in '78, '79, '81 (this was the first one for which it received the full title), '82, and '97.

Re:That was then

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually it all started with Boba Fett, who was marketed to kids as an action figure years before he appeared in a movie.

The Force or The Money

[ikkibr]

May the force be with you Luke and May the Money be with you Lucas

One thing has changed

[soft_guy]

With the republicans in control, it now legal for George Lucas, or anyone else who is super-rich, to actually kick you. It was necessary as part of the war on human rights^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h terrorism.

Re:One thing has changed

[Anonymous Coward]

As it should be. Poor people should be kicked. Maybe then they'd work a little harder on getting rich.

Re:One thing has changed

[Anonymous Coward]

Keep it up long enough and natural selection will produce poor people that explode when kicked.

Re:One thing has changed

[Deltaspectre]

One would think it would be more efficient to just use ^w^w ?

Re:One thing has changed

[Bullet-Dodger]

One would think it would be more efficient to ?

I'm sorry, I don't understand.

Story treatment

[Jugalator]

It all started with a story treatment, handwritten in pencil on a few sheets of lined yellow legal paper.

Which looked something like this, for those of you who haven't seen it...

Here's also a small discussion on how the script evolved.

Lucas wanted to remake Flash Gordon

[PapayaSF]

The similarities with New Gods is interesting, but Star Wars also grew out of Lucas' desire to remake Flash Gordon:

http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mstarwar.html

Here it is, straight from Lucas' first Hollywood boss and fellow USC graduate, Francis Ford Coppola: "George wanted to do Flash Gordon ... he met with the people who owned it, and they didn't take him at all seriously. So he took the Flash Gordon trailers -- the diagonal titles that talk about the universe at that point [he means the opening story synopsis that seems to recede from the viewer as it scrolls up] -- and sort of combined it with a Stanley Kubrick '2001' world and created his own 'Flash Gordon.' " Lucas says the characters of "Star Wars" are not originals but "tributes."

Re:Lucas wanted to remake Flash Gordon

[Anonymous Coward]

Also Darth Vader is pretty much a carbon copy of The Lighting. Almost the same costume, helmet, gloves, manner of shaking fists...

Maybe I read this wrong, but...

[TooMuchEspressoGuy]

"the biggest meteor to hit Hollywood since there's been a Hollywood."

Jar Jar Binks?

Re:Maybe I read this wrong, but...

[Joel from Sydney]

Y'know, I would've thought maybe the idea of putting SOUND into movies had more of an impact than Star Wars, but there you have it....

Special Editions were not originally for theater

[SuperKendall]

From a talk I heard George Lucas give, the Special Editions were not originally meant for the theaters - they were cleaning them up for some other reason (video release? I forget that part) but then when they were done they had a test screening that went so well they thought they'd try a theatrical re-release. And that, obviously, went very well indeed.

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[account_deleted]

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Beat you - four words

[SuperKendall]

Star Wars Lotto Tickets

Honest! Check your 7-11.

At least you have a chance of your Star Wars habit paying off for once.

script evolution

[Anonymous Coward]

when filmmaker George Lucas sat down in 1974 to write what, within three years, would be the biggest meteor to hit Hollywood since there's been a Hollywood.

It's interesting that what he wrote in 1974 was actually very different than what ended up on screen in 1977. This is mostly irrelevant, but I found this detailed exposition of the history and evolution of the Star Wars script interesting and I thought Slashdotters might like it too:
http://hem.passagen.se/wookiee/developm/

Just as a tidbit, Luke Skywalker was originally a 60+ year old general!

Re:MONEY BREEDS COMPLACENCY

[Spodlink05]

Money destroys creativity.

Probably. But most people do their best work early on, because they have something to prove. Okay, so there are exceptions, like the Beatles etc., but if you think of a lot of artists, once they become middle aged they're not exactly making ground-breaking work like they were when they began. I think they just lose the drive and mellow out with age. Plus I guess having bazillions of dollars helps ease the pain.

Incidentally, Lars is a hopeless drummer.

The canonical reference

[Anonymous Coward]

for this is "The Hero With A Thousand Faces" by Joseph Campbell.
The book was written in the 1940s.

Quote from Yoda Pepsi commercial you'll never hear

[dabigpaybackski]

"When Pepsi you drink, look like mine your teeth will!"

Weakness

[Aggrav8d]

DODONNA: The Star Wars Money Machine is heavily shielded and carries a firepower greater than half the Hollywood fleet. It's defenses are designed around a direct large-scale assault on consumers everywhere. A small indie film should be able to penetrate the outer defense.

GOLD LEADER: Pardon me for asking, sir, but what good are indie films going to be against that?

DODONNA: Well, Hollywood doesn't consider a small indie film to be any threat, or they'd have a tighter defense. An analysis of the plans provided by Princess Leia has demonstrated a weakness in the machine....The approach will not be easy. You are required to write better film and skim by on a budget of almost nothing. The target audience is a small group of people who, if enticed, will being a word of mouth campaign that will snowball until eclipses the Star Wars Money Machine and causes it to implode on itself.

A murmer of disbelief runs through the room.

Re:Weakness

[Tsuminaoshi]

That's great!

George Lucas has the Right Timing

[Anonymous Coward]

Everyone seems to have missed the central point: the original "Star Wars" was panned by the critics. They accused it of being too Pollyanna-ish.

Then, the movie turned into a multi-billion dollar blockbuster that played on American cinematic screens for over a year! In our cynicism about life, we quickly forget that the movie debuted in 1977 and played for 365 days into 1978. How many movies, today, can claim that fame?

Let's not jump up and day in joy when the critics claim that a movie is good. They could be wrong. They were wrong about Star Wars IV.

Why did Star War IV succeed? The main reason is that it appeared at a time when the nation was going through a great mental depression and malaise. There was stagflation and high unemployment. The cold war was in full swing. The Chinese were butchering Tibetans left and right.

Then came Star Wars and Ronald Reagan. Both gave hope to America. Both said that good shall triumph over evil. (Nonetheless, the Taiwanese government, which was praised by Ronald Reagan, committed the only successful assassination by a foreign government against an American citizen living in the USA. The victim was living in Daly City at the time.)

The answer is not technology. It does not solve America's problems. The answer is good values. The answer is in you. At the moment of truth, Skywalker turned off the guidance systems on his spacecraft and used his feelings to guide the photon torpedoes into the exhaust system of the death star, saving the rebel base.

"May the force [of good] be with you," says Yoda. "At the debut in about a week, see you! To cynicism, do not lose yourself. Rise again, America shall!" exclaims Yoda.

Re:George Lucas has the Right Timing

[kfg]

There was stagflation and high unemployment. The cold war was in full swing. The Chinese were butchering Tibetans left and right.

And don't forget the oil crises and a very tense state of affairs in the middle east.

My, how times have changed.

KFG

Re:George Lucas has the Right Timing

[Anonymous Coward]

The NY Times reprinted their original 1977 review and they had given the film high marks.

But in general critics pan every summer blockbuster no matter what, so it's hardly important if they like these movies or not. The problem with Star Wars is that even the fans think the last movies have been teh suck.

Re:George Lucas has the Right Timing

[mrt68]

... at the moment of truth, Skywalker turned off the guidance systems on his spacecraft and used his feelings ...

Yeah. And Reagan just turned off his brain while Col. N sold weapons to the Axis Of Evil(tm), to pay for death squads in South America (the Spokes Of Evil?).

Which would make America the Grease Of Evil(tm) right?

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[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

I see your 4 words and raise you 2.

[KipCas]

Darth Tater.

Exactly...

[YeEntrancemperium]

So just go with Kreator - Enemy Of God!

Re:That was then

[Anonymous Coward]

Can someone confirm this?

If so, +1 informative

Re:That was then

[The One and Only]

With PM, we saw large portions of the movie given over to selling a video game.

If you're talking about the pod race, and the subsequent release of "Episode I Racer"...bullshit. Not only does Lucas put high-speed "thrill rides" into his movies just on general principle (the Death Star in ANH, the speeder bikes in ROTJ, the street race in American Graffiti, the climatic car chase in THX 1138), he was also making a gratuitious homage to the chariot race in Ben-Hur. [1] [2]

merchandising

[humankind]

I don't know what the fuss is about. It's not like Star Wars merchandising has gotten out of hand.

Re:merchandising

[Emetophobe]

I like the sprinkler the best... check out the image

Just check out the store for all the 50 cent crap priced at eye gouge prices.

Look into the eyes of Darth Vader and discover the fate of his former self! This innovative 100mm snow globe from Encore features the dueling figures of Anakin and Obi-Wan behind the eyes of Vader's iconic helmet, which can be partially removed for better viewing. The tormented mind of the Dark Lord is revealed in this wonderfully sculpted snow globe available now for pre-order! Our Price: $59.99

Dollars per Character?

[jzarling]

Is there a way to calculate how much revenue George Luca$ lost on Jar Jar vs what he might have earned if Binks was a POPULAR character?

Re:Dollars per Character?

[Anonymous Coward]

what makes you think he lost any money due to Jar Jar. Give him more credit than that. Characters like Jar Jar are put in to give people something to rally against or bitch about.

Re:It started with the New Gods comic in 1971...

[camcloud1]

(New Gods had Darkseid and the Source, Star Wars has Darth Vader and the Force. Orion is revealed to be Darkseid's son; Luke is Vader's son. New Gods had a spiritual leader/father figure to Orion called Highfather; Star Wars has spiritual leader/father figure to Luke called Obi Wan Kenobi. New Gods:1971. Star Wars: 1977. George Lucas was a comics fan. Say no more)

Um. No. That sounds like a blatant rip off to me.

Can this be true?

[Anonymous Coward]

907 million tickets to Revenge of the Sith--enough for every person in the Western Hemisphere, with the entire population of Poland included twice

Presuming a world population of 6.75 billion, does this mean that 5.65 billion people live in the Eastern hemisphere?

Re:Can this be true?

[Cecil]

Sounds plausible to me. Let's see, the eastern hemisphere has both China - around 1 billion alone
, and India - another billion. Add in the rest of Asia, plus the majority of Africa, much of Europe, and all of Austrailia, and it starts looking quite feasable.

North and South America really aren't that populous. You've got the USA, which is last I heard around 350 million, plus Mexico (no idea) and Brazil (also no idea) which I believe are the next two most populous countries. Canada's only 35 million or so... it's gonna be tough for all the remaining countries to push those numbers up past a billion, I think.

Re:Can this be true?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is that so hard to believe? Europe has more people than North America, Africa more than South America, and then you still have the whole of Asia in the Eastern... (you know, like, 3 billion people)

Re:That was then

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.toysrgus.com/images-kenst/fett-hanger.h tml (yes, I sent in for it)

Two types of nerds!!

[Ganniterix]

There are two types of nerds:

1. Those that watch Star Wars and admit it openly

2. Those that call those in 1 geeks and publicly call Lucas a money-lubber, and then secretly watch it in the dark shroud of the night and wish to be Lucas himself.

Which type of nerd are you??

Re:Two types of nerds!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Which type of nerd are you??

Type III, which is type I and type II together. I admit to watching it, call Lucas a self serving money grabber but secretly own one action figure.

Type III geeks are superior to either type I or type II.

Re:Two types of nerds!!

[Anonymous Coward]

There are two types of jerks:

1. Those that watch Star Wars and admit it openly

2. Those that call those in 1 jerks and publicly call Lucas a money-lubber, and then secretly watch it in the dark shroud of the night and wish to be Lucas himself.

Which type of jerks are you??

Re:That was then

[GotenXiao]

Same thing applies to software, hardware, just about anything. Normal people are too willing to accept the shit quality. If more people start going to the companies and saying, "Look, this stuff is shit, make it better," market pressure will make them cave.

Star Wars Bad Guys

[rossz]

All the problems in the Star Wars universe (at least in episodes 1-3) are being blamed on the Trade Federation and the Banking Cartel. I don't really like being lectured on the evils of capitalism by a filthy rich jerk who has made a fortune by selling franchise rights to any asshole with a checkbook.

Re:Star Wars Bad Guys

[Anonymous Coward]

Who better to do the lecturing? Seriously.

Re:Star Wars Bad Guys

[oogoliegoogolie]

Funny, I thought Star Wars was entertainment, not a political or economic commentary. I didn't know they still made you read Animal Farm in school.

Re:Star Wars Bad Guys

[King_TJ]

Umm... actually, I find that quite OFTEN, major Hollywood movies pose as "simple entertainment" while trying to cram some sort of political message down my throat.

(EG. Did you ever see a movie called "The Contender"? I actually wasted $10 or so on the DVD, never having seen it before in the theater - because it looked like it might be an entertaining political thriller. Started out with some promise, in fact, but by the end, turned into mindless stereotyping of conservatives followed by ramming home a feminist liberal political agenda.) I could have thought of at least 2 or 3 alternate endings that would have made it a much more interesting movie, really - if they could have just let go of the apparent need to shove a certain "message" in the audience's faces.)

The new Star Wars movies are no exception, really, other than being less blatant than some stuff out there. Look at it this way. The original 3 films barely even touched on "politics", other than some vague references. That didn't make them less interesting. But now, it seems like half of the last 2 movies revolved around senate meetings and jedis in the thick of political decision-making. It just seems to me like none of this made for a better, more "entertaining" movie experience at all. So why is it there? Allows insertion of political messages....

Early drafts

[Anonymous Coward]

The early drafts don't support your theory. The original relationships between Annikin (as then spelled) and General Skywalker wandered all over the place from version to version.

If Lucas had been uncreatively imitating the New Gods storyline, one would expect his initial draft to be more like it, not less. These versions read more like The Foundation with Action Added.

In particular, "The Force" sounds a lot less like the Source in the original phrasing: "The force of others."

It's dead already!

[Anonymous Coward]

Bla bla bla bla. Who cares. Yeah he made something good, yeah money fucks people up. And this is why "the good die young": because at older age, they turn bad. Painting the Star Wars beginnings as a fairy tale would of worked if he died after making the first 3; instead the magic died. Like talking about a movie star that turns into a porn star.

But hey, as long as it's about $$$$$ (= success), right?

"I've never sought success in order to get fame and money;
it's the talent and the passion that count in success"
- Ingrid Bergman

George deserves his money

[mr.dreadful]

Everytime someone mentions how George has "raped their childhood" by "exploiting" Star Wars, I'm reminded of an interview with Peanuts creator Charles Shultz.

Shultz was asked if he was concerned that the marketing of his Peanuts characters violated his "art." Schultz was shocked. "I draw Peanuts as a way to make my living" he replied. He was less concerned with "art" and more concerned with being a good businessman.

George isn't forcing people to buy his products or locking them into a system they can't easily extract themselves from (*cough* Bill Gates *cough*). If he's rereleasing movies in different formats, its because he knows theres a market for them. You want to show George you're mad at him? Don't buy his products.

As for me, I'm going to go play some Lego Star Wars with my kids, who throughly dig all things Star Wars, and whose childhoods are just fine, thank you.

Space 1999

[shmlco]

The Eagle transporter was cool though, a practical design and it accurately relfected the fact that a ship built for space didn't have to be smooth and aerodynamic... aka Enterprise.

Re:MONEY BREEDS COMPLACENCY

[Anonymous Coward]

Lucas was well settled into money before Star Wars came along, and if the fame and fourtune of the first movie didn't influence the second and third, why would they influence the prequels? I think it's more likely that Lucas is old and now has better things to do with his time (kids, etc) than sketch out stories for fun. Age has a funny way of making your priorities change, and with those priorities, your creativity and ideas change.

I bent my Wookie

[Tsuminaoshi]

Lucas' Jedi mind tricks won't work on me. I haven't seen eps I or II. I will see III, and I've read a ton of the after stories, but that Bantha fodder known as Episodes I & II will never look like anything more than jacked up versions of the Ewoks and Droids cartoons and all the sale-ability of Jedi. Pure crap. Te wanna wanga?

Re:I bent my Wookie

[Anonymous Coward]

I haven't seen eps I or II.

Wow, I bet you're one of those people who are proud not to own a TV, too, huh?

Re:I bent my Wookie

[Tsuminaoshi]

You kinda missed the point of that huh? Let's use a little reasonable deduction, I said I've seen all of the others, and liked them, but that eps i and ii are crap... So tell me, do you think it was voluntary, or involuntary that I didn't see i and ii?

All I can say is

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.starwars.com/databank/droid/bollux/eu.h tml

Re:All I can say is

[Tsuminaoshi]

Any reason that is all you can say???

Re:MONEY BREEDS COMPLACENCY

[Emetophobe]

Episode I sucked ass, and I never bothered to see Episode II

Episode I was actually GOOD compared to Episode II, you didn't miss anything.

We have a winna!

[KipCas]

Yes. "I am your...uncle" tops all the Star Wars product ads I have seen. It would have been my 1st post, but I just saw it last night. But on the good side, it's nice to know that as a society there is still a small faction of us that still see the wrongness in this crap. Granted, Star Wars has always been a marketing machine, but there are still some unforgivable examples. Here are a few...

London Calling by The Clash - Jaguar car commercial. (The song is about fear of nuclear war/fallout. See the connection? I don't.

Lust for Life by Iggy Pop - Carnival Cruise Lines commercial - Cause, you know, most people that take cruises are into songs about herion addiction and deviant sex.

Beautiful World by Devo - Target commercial. I just...but they....what the fuck ever.

How Soon is Now by The Smiths - Used to push the 2000 Nissan Maxima (if I remember correctly) -Insert bitter statement here-

Well, obvioulsy this subject makes me rant, but I think the following true story that happened to me sums it up pretty well...

I have the radio on at work. Local classic rock channel. "Rock and Roll" by Led Zeppelin is playing. A guy, maybe 18 years old, from another dept comes by and utters the following, "Hey thats the song from that Cadillac commercial."

Readers you just sit there and let that sink in. I'm quite proud of myself for not throat punching him, but I tell you this...the day a Gap commercial comes on and I hear a System of a Down song and see those Armenian, anti-everything rockers pushing Gap khaki capris I will de-rail. But I probably won't even be noticed hauling all those guns up to the top of the bell tower...what with armageddon starting and all.

Re:Quote from Yoda Pepsi commercial you'll never h

[strike2867]

"When Mountain dew you drink, length of saber like mine yours wont be"

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[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Oh come off it

[Anonymous Coward]

Go to imdb.com and look at what he's churned out. It's Ewok TV Specials ad nauseum and "story" credits for spin-offs and sequels. His talent is in marketing his cinematic notions, not screenplays or direction. He's George Lucas, not Orson Wells.

What are you talking about?

[Crazy Eight]

Any "relentless abuse" has been invited by George Lucas himself by emphasising the Star Wars franchise over any impulse to write or direct anything else worth knowing about. Spare us the poor George routine.

No one has stood in line for "More American Graffiti", "The Ewok Adventure", "Ewoks", "Droids", "Ewoks: The Battle for Endor", "Captain EO", "Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis", "Indiana Jed", "Star Wars: Rebel Assault", "Radioland Murders", "Young Indiana Jones and the Attack of the Hawkmen", "Young Indiana Jones and the Treasure of the Peacock's Eye", "Star Wars: Yoda Stories", "The Adventures of Young Indiana Jones: The Trenches of Hell", "The Adventures of Young Indiana Jones: Spring Break Adventure" (no doubt this one is underappreciated), "The Adventures of Young Indiana Jones: Masks of Evil", "The Adventures of Young Indiana Jones: Adventures in the Secret Service", "Star Wars: Obi-Wan", "R2-D2: Beneath the Dome", and "Star Wars: Clone Wars".

Lucas invites a certain type of derision because the difference between American Graffiti and Star Wars left us thinking he was versatile like Wilder or Speilberg, but he has the resume of an anonymous hack.

Re:MONEY BREEDS COMPLACENCY

[PedanticSpellingTrol]

Episode III is definitely worth a cheap matinee screening, there were only a couple of emo love scenes that made me groan, and one really terrible moment that... oh hell, it cancelled out the awesome parts entirely. Nevermind.