Knoppix 4.0 DVD - Like a Kid in a Candy Store

IdleTime writes "O'Reilly Developer Weblogs has a nice review of the new yet unreleased Knoppix 4.0 on DVD. As the article says 'A totally new release of Knoppix was unveiled at LinuxTag 2005, Knoppix 4.0. This is the release that introduces the split between "maxi" DVD and "mini" CD releases. I've tried out the 4.0 DVD and let me tell you, I'm like a kid in a candy store.'" AlexanderT points to some currently available torrent files for the DVD.

Comments

maybe im alone on this one

[Anonymous Coward]

But the article could have been summed up by just saying "it has tons of packages. Pretty much everything you'd expect."

Re:maybe im alone on this one

[(1 -sqrt(5))*(2**-1)]

[I]t has tons of packages. Pretty much everything you'd expect.

That said, I really hope they put LaTeX back in the DVD version; LaTeX was my main motivation for booting up Knoppix at school.

Re:maybe im alone on this one

[Anonymous Coward]

the source is available. you can get it from the knoppix website or any of the project websites. it doesn't have to be packaged on the dvd to be GPL compliant; that's not a requirement, and it's not a sign of laxness.

in conclusion, you're a fucking idiot. please fall on a rusty nail.

Re:maybe im alone on this one

[benna]

Math formulas and other such things. Wikipedia is your friend.

Re:maybe im alone on this one

[Xypheri]

no i'ts not.. and yes you are. you must be new.

Re:maybe im alone on this one

[PeterPumpkin]

Yeah, I remember looking for the wireless patches when the cebit edition, cause my wireless card Just Worked on Knoppix, and absolutely not on any vanilla kernel, or any other patch set that I tried. Nowhere on the internet could it be found.

Actually I just looked again and I still can't find anything. The patches on linuxtag are really outdated, knoppix-customize is dated 2003.

Thats pretty amazing for month old an Free software project. Even the Cedega (non-open) sources are easier to find than the Knoppix sources!

Re:maybe im alone on this one

[Richard Dick Head]

Obviously you haven't looked for them. The link that says "Developers interested go here to linuxtag mailinglist" is broken. All the listed sources and debian packages are out of date, some as far out as 2002.

Re:maybe im alone on this one

[CastrTroy]

I find that making math formulas in OO.o works pretty well. It's also a lot easier if you're doing a lot of regular typing with a few formulas thrown in. I can't stand the Equation Editor for microsoft word. The fact that you have to click to do just about anything is what makes it terrible. OO.o is far superior in this respect, and I think that if science/math/eng. students tried it, they would love it for this simple reason.

Re:maybe im alone on this one

[frodo from middle ea]

LateX differs from any other WYSIWYG typesetting editors, because it keeps content different from presentation.

If you are writing anything over 20 pages, neither OOo nor MS Word, nor Wordperfect will do. Trust me I wrote a 100 page document once in Word, absolute nightmare.

Latex has a learning curve, but once you have passed it, there is nothing close.

Re:maybe im alone on this one

[Coryoth]

The OO.o equation editor owes a lot to LaTeX - if you know LaTeX you can pretty much just use the OO.o equation editor by just typing the LaTeX with the backslashes left off.

Having said that, the output is quite simply not the least bit comparable. LaTeX equations are beautiful, and OO.o equations are just barely tolerable (at best).

If you must use OO.o for document preparation, but want pretty looking equations try this which allows you to insert proper LaTeX equation output into OO.o docs with ease (as well as making them conveniently easily editable).

Jedidiah.

Re:maybe im alone on this one

[MCRocker]

LaTeX was my main motivation for booting up Knoppix at school.

Hmmm... latex boots... was there a whip involved or just the usual (unzip; strip; touch; finger; mount; gasp; yes; umount; sleep). Either way, definitely motivating.

Re:maybe im alone on this one

[sugarmotor]

I agree. I was pretty surprised to see the author, Kyle Rankin, wrote a book about Knoppix. You'd think he would have more interesting things to say. Maybe he had something else on his mind.

Stephan

Re:maybe im alone on this one

[darkonc]

He's a bit lax on keeping the sources link up to date, but some of the Knoppix packages have shown up in the Debin tree (at least, they show up in dpkg searches when running knoppix ).

He also offers to ship of a CD (or two) full of sources to anybody who mails him a couple of bucks to cover mailing.

My guess is that he mostly just works with the debian binaries, himself.

Re:maybe im alone on this one

[edwazere]

If you're claiming that word isn't suitable for general long documents, then I think you're mistaken.

I've written 1000 page plus documents in word, and using it's styles support it does a pretty good job.

However if you don't use the styles properly, then it's crap.

RE: Knoppix plug

[Tezkah]

This is the release that introduces the split between "maxi" DVD and "mini" CD releases

My question is: are the maxi ones super absorbancy?

Woo! Knoppix!

[idonthack]

It's made of pure awesome.

Uh

[Sir_Real]

One of the links to the torrents, links back to a slashdot 404. And the DE in the filename of two of the other links make me suspicious that they are German.

Re:Uh

[Tezkah]

But these websites are so trustworthy!

Quote from torrentreactor.to in IE:

The site might require the following ActiveX control: 'Free Download Access__ Click YES - If you agre...' from 'WEBSITE ACCCESS'. Click here to install..

Well, if WEBSITE ACCCESS wants me to install it, I better! It has THREE C's! That's one more C than normal access!

Come on guys, this is free software, no need to go to disreputable torrent sites to download it.

Re:Uh

[aywwts4]

Correct me if im wrong, but don't most Knoppix distros default to german anyways; you just use the "lang=us" Cheat code at boot to get it in english.

So it _might_ be safe to download from a german site, thanks to those awesome cheat codes.

(let me hear a hip-hip-horrah for 'failsafe')

Re:Uh

[Sancho]

Generally there's a -en ISO and a -de ISO. The -de defaults to German while the -en defaults to English. It is possible to get a US language/keyboard from the de version and vice versa, however you have to know where the = key is on the German keyboard (something like shift-2?)

Re:Uh

[Sir_Real]

Whatever do you mean? What if I'm just suspicious of Germans you insensitive clod?! Okay. You caught me. I never thought of "lang=us". I tried up up down down left right left right b a select start though.

Re:Uh

[compmanio36]

No need to use Internet Explorer to download it either.

I got one link for you:
Kick IE to the curb

Then you won't get those pesky, innocent looking ActiveX controls OF DOOM!

Re:Uh

[aywwts4]

They arent that obscure, being fairly well documented http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Cheat_Codes and I think if you press F2 during startup you get a list of the most common ones.

Re:Uh

[Anonymous Coward]

I've got several links for you:

Kick Firefox to the curb
Kick Opera to the curb
Kick Maxthon to the curb

How could I not know of Firefox and have it installed when I post on Slashdot (Firefox usage up .03% vs IE!)? Really now... I was just using IE at the time, and found it hilarious that Slashdot would link to a site that would attempt to install malware on a user's computer.

(Besides, with SP2, Mouse gestures and program grouping on Windows XP, and privoxy for blocking in-line ads, IE is useable)

-Tezkah
(Posting A/C for O/T)

Re:Uh

[colinrichardday]

Aren't they ActiveX controls of DOM?

Re:Uh

[Taladar]

Shift-0

Re:Uh

[shancock]

This link will explain what to do to get a fully functioning English version. It is from the forums on www.knoppix.net - http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19726

It states:
As with some of the other versions that default into German, you can use the cheat code Knoppix lang=us (to get the equals sign, press shit+zero) which will than bring up a fully functional English version.

I'm still waiting for a peer to download from the torrent however.

Re:Uh

[shancock]

I don't know. I simply quoted from the forum message and gave the link. I have been unable to get the file yet. It seemed odd to me also but then I don't have a clue what german keyboards are like.

Re:Uh

[jrschulz]

It's german.

Re:Uh

[[ella]]

Where's the shit key on a US keyboard ?

Re:Uh

[Anonymous Coward]

Its just below the space bar... quite a way below the space bar. but you must press hard until you hit the area known as the chair and its to the back of that area.

~AC

Re:Uh

[indifferent children]

On most recent US keyboards, it is between the left Ctrl key and the left Alt key.

Re:Uh

[Jesus_666]

Hmm, that gives me an idea for a new distro.: ArcadeLinux, which is mainly controlled with a joystick. The Contra code is equivalent to su -, you start X with down-forward-high punch...

It's also great for when the boss unexpectedly shows up: Why I'm playing Mortal Kombat during work? I'm practicing my EMACS macros, that's why!

Re:Uh

[itchy92]

Kick Firefox to the curb
Kick Opera to the curb
Kick Maxthon to the curb

You forgot this one:

Kick Kmeleon to the curb

Re:Uh

[bfree]

if you want you can just binary edit (by whatever means) the iso to replace lang=de with lang=ie or lang=us or lang=uk or ... then you can just hit enter and not worry that isolinux (the bootloader) has a german keymap, unless you have more cheatcodes to add.

Nice.......

[compmanio36]

See, this is awesome, because I can finally have everything I ever wanted in Linux with me, to run on any PC with a DVD drive (and who doesn't have one these days?), without having to install a thing. This means when I go to a friend's house, I don't have to use their spyware infested Windows partition, I can just pop in the Knoppix DVD and run that.

I would like to know what else is included in the DVD version that isn't in the CD variant, though.

Re:Nice.......

[Tanmi-Daiow]

ya know you can also take along a USB flash drive and use that as your /home. ITs quite handy. Its like having your whole computer w/ all your programs and stuff on a cd and in your pocket.

Re:Nice.......

[superpulpsicle]

After seeing fedora core 4 crash with the eclipse that it comes with natively, I am skeptical of all new distros and features.

We are at the point where we release too fast squeezing everything into every version on every distro. I am starting to think 2 releases a year is a rush.

Re:Nice.......

[kesuki]

I am starting to think 2 releases a year is a rush.

I think you're ready for Debian linux. The current stable release spent 4 years getting ready to be released. Then they delayed the release by 6 months because 'it wasn't ready.'

Re:Nice.......

[suitepotato]

I think you're ready for Debian linux. The current stable release spent 4 years getting ready to be released. Then they delayed the release by 6 months because 'it wasn't ready.'

That's nothing Microsoft is projecting the first stable release of Windows in 2018. Not to be outdone, 3D Realms said Duke Nukem Forever will be released sometime after that just to make sure that all the bugs are really gone.

However, they failed to clarify which software they were referring to.

Re:Nice.......

[everphilski]

Come, my son. Come to the cool waters of Slackware Linux...
-everphilski-

Re:Nice.......

[hostyle]

After seeing fedora core 4 crash with the eclipse that it comes with natively, I am skeptical of all new distros and features.

I don't quite understand yoru logic. I'd ve sceptical of Fedora Core certainly, but not all new Linux distros. Then again, I've always been sceptical of Fedora Core and Red Hat since RH9 (I think it was) crawled along on a machine that windows 2000 ran on smoothly.

Try out Ubuntu/Kubuntu, its new, up to date, based on Debian and just works(TM)

Re:Nice.......

[bogie]

" to run on any PC with a DVD drive (and who doesn't have one these days?)"

Every worked in an office setting? A DVD version of a livecd is pretty worthless in a corporate setting. You just can't count on having a DVD drive everywhere you go unlike a CD drive. I think its amazing how much stuff they can fit on a DVD but for now liveCD's are more useful.

Re:Nice.......

[Daravon]

It's actually quite nice. They even give you instructions on their site to get video codecs working (for wmv and other formats) because the files used to play them are questionably legal. They don't include them, but they tell you how to get them in a really simple matter if you want them.

Re:Nice.......

[snorklewacker]

You won't get a working JDK with Ubuntu, but you can always just download the JDK, install it, and you can either write an equiv for java-virtual-machine or install one of the other ones just to meet the dependency.

There's also java-package, which is this ridiculously overengineered shell script that no one has bothered to update to JDK1.5.

As for ideology, Ubuntu's base distribution is all DFSG "free" software, but you can enable the restricted (official, non-free), universe (unnofficial, free) and multiverse (unofficial, non-free) repositories. What does get ridiculous is the fact that every release is a feature freeze except for security updates, to the point where they won't release a new version of firefox even though they've backported every fix, and that new version amounts to the new firefox version. The most annoying aspect of that is that they won't change the vendor_sub string to make it work with firefox updates, making firefox and ubuntu effectively useless for non-technical users. All so they can maintain some precious ideological commitment to "stability".

I use Ubuntu, and I like many others manually fixed the firefox issue. Largely the only reason I stick with it is that everything else tends to suck worse.

Re:Nice.......

[Jesus_666]

I would like to know what else is included in the DVD version that isn't in the CD variant, though.

Dolby Digital sound, more language tracks (optionally with subtitles) and more than three hours of commentary, making-ofs and other features.

RE: DVD Distros

[Sabathius]

The best DVD distro I've tried so far is Suse 9.3 Professional. It's really well polished.

The only problem seems to be video and audio codec support (no MP3s or DVDs by default)

From the article

[Jonathan]

"I've really only scratched the surface of the Knoppix 4.0 DVD"

Ouch -- it hasn't been released yet and he's already ruined his copy? Hopefully he didn't delete the image file or he'll have to download it again.

Re:From the article

[kesuki]

These are DVD's you have to gouge the surface pretty bad to damage the data layer, which is in the middle. Clearly he's happy that unlike CD's when he 'barely scratched the surface' his knoppix 4.0 DVD kept working normally.

Does it have the Windows QEMU

[Anonymous Coward]

The coolest Knoppix I've seen was last year's linuxtag (I think) that had a windows version of QEMU so if you autorun it on a Windoze machine it'll run Linux in a window.

That sold one of my coworkers on it, and now he typically boots to linux instead of windows.

Don't get me wrong...

[Scott Swezey]

I love knoppix and all, but when was the last time you popped it into someone else's computer (especialy one at work or school if your not IT/fixing it) and didn't get your head bitten off.

Hell, I still like booting school computers into knoppix when no one is looking, then taking the CD out and walking off. They FREAK out... lol

Re:Don't get me wrong...

[FuzzyBad-Mofo]

I was running Knoppix on my school's lab computers regularly for my Stat class. Only thing that gave it away was the unnecessary startup sounds "initializing startup sequence" so I usually disabled sound on the command line.

Re:Don't get me wrong...

[joe_bruin]

I love knoppix and all, but when was the last time you popped it into someone else's computer (especialy one at work or school if your not IT/fixing it) and didn't get your head bitten off.

Well, when I was travelling around the country, visiting my friends and family, for one. I wanted to ssh into my machine to read my mail, browse the web using firefox, and play my mp3s. To accomplish this on their spyware-ridden Windows machines, I brought with my a Knoppix CD, and a DVD of my mp3 files. No installing software on their machines (they surely don't have ssh installed), no worries about having my password stolen by whoever rooted that computer, no annoying pop-ups. Using Knoppix was the least intrusive method of doing this, as their PC is 100% back to its original state when I'm done with it.

Re:Don't get me wrong...

[Spoing]

I love knoppix and all, but when was the last time you popped it into someone else's computer (especialy one at work or school if your not IT/fixing it) and didn't get your head bitten off.

I've never had a problem.

Re:Don't get me wrong...

[Dwonis]

Do you check your SSH host key fingerprints?

Re:Don't get me wrong...

[xlv]

Did you check for hardware keyloggers on the borrowed machines before connecting to your servers using ssh? Even if you trust your friends/family not to install them, there's always the weird room mate to consider. Maybe having one time passwords on the server would help in that case just to be sure...

Re:Don't get me wrong...

[JustADude]

Heck, did he even think about bringing his tinfoil hat along?

Re:Don't get me wrong...

[IchBinEinPenguin]

Hell, I still like booting school computers into knoppix when no one is looking, then taking the CD out and walking off. They FREAK out... lol
Here's an idea... leave the disk in when you leave.
Blanks don't cost much, and it's one way to "spread the word".

Re:Don't get me wrong...

[xlv]

OK, maybe I didn't insert the required tags in my previous message and in his case (friends/family), it's probably overkill but after reading the post, others may be tempted to boot from the DVD in an internet cafe for instance where hardware keyloggers are an issue.

As we all know, security is a process, once you remove the spyware issue from the host machine by booting from the DVD, the next issue is the hardware loggers and OTP is one solution for that problem.

Re:Don't get me wrong...

[surprise_audit]

That's why I'm happy that work finally provided me with a nice, shiny, new Precision M60 laptop last year. It came with this mandate: "take this thing home - do not leave it on your desk at night". They even provided a rather nice backpack to carry it in.

Re:Don't get me wrong...

[Aeiri]

You laugh because it's Windows. "What security?" Now imagine your roommate did that shit on your Linux PC. Then he proceeds to mount /dev/hda and mess with your file permissions. Or worse. He accidentally does cat whatever >/dev/hda or something. Yeah.. you're laughing now.

For me, none of that matters. I have an encrypted root filesystem, with my cd/dvd drive booting disabled (with password lock on BIOS), and in order for someone to boot "normally" on it, they need my USB pen drive plugged in and know 3 passwords to unlock the encryption. Then, they have to login as root to mess with my stuff.

The only way they could touch the computer is if they rip the drive out, and that's destruction of property/theft anyway. I might also point out that doing that with Knoppix against a Windows box could be considered the same.

Re:Don't get me wrong...

[MemoryDragon]

It all comes down to trust, first of all, Knoppix does not write anything to the users hd per default. Second, if you dont trust openssh and various other tools, you should probably stay away from computing at all, or do a manual code review yourself. What the above user does is to pop in a knoppix CD and ssh to his computer, the only security I really see breached there compared to a standard linux distro is, that he has full access to the original machines filesystem, but that is excusable given windows lame default security settings, which are non existent. If he leaves the cd in after the ssh session it is his problem, but I see no spyware related problem here as well.

Re:Don't get me wrong...

[richlv]

and they are able to actually run some programms, too ;)
(if you remove the disk, there is no way for them to run anything that is not read from the disc already, so it's pretty useless)

Re:Don't get me wrong...

[RikRat]

How can you take the CD out when you've booted Knoppix? It mounts the CD-ROM drive and locks it. I can't get the drive open without a paperclip when I'm in Knoppix...

Re:Don't get me wrong...

[Xabraxas]

I haven't used Knoppix in a long time but the Gentoo LiveCD allows you to do this if you pass the right option at boot time. It caches the entire CD in memory so you can take it out and put another CD in if you want. You can then put the LiveCD back in. Knoppix probably has a similar feature.

Re:Don't get me wrong...

[cortana]

Presumably he plonked a copy of known_hosts on his data DVD.

Re:Don't get me wrong...

[stinerman]

Correct.

Type in "toram" at startup and it will cache the CD in RAM. Of course, I don't know how much total data is on the DVD (1-2GB?), but I'm betting it would be quite a challenge getting all of that in your RAM and having enough left to run apps.

Re:Don't get me wrong...

[reflective recursion]

Fucking linux zealots, I swear.

It's not about what the distro installs or how safe you think XYZ distro is... it's about principle. Sure *you* might think you have self control, but you would never let someone touch your PC and run their own version of whatever OS *they* wanted. Yet you would gladly do the exact thing you don't want others doing to your PC.

I run Linux, but I definately would not want someone tossing in another Linux distro CD and running that. And what if someone tossed in a Windows CD and were to boot that? Yeah, there's one for the zealots...

Re:Don't get me wrong...

[reflective recursion]

Nice.. so you're saying that no one could even boot Knoppix on your PC and that the entire point is lost on you.

I'm amazed at how many people do not grasp the simple concept of the Golden Rule.. treat others as you wish to be treated. Or maybe it's a reading comprehension problem. Obviously if you are so paranoid that others should not touch your PC, you probably shouldn't go messing with another person's PC or running a foreign OS on it.

Re:Don't get me wrong...

[reflective recursion]

Not just file system. Access to every hardware device and complete system information. Access to the partition table, etc. etc. And the jab at Windows is moot.. I've already pointed that out.

It's not about trust, it's not about openssh, encryption or any technology. It's not about Linux being superior to XYZ. It's about the Golden Rule. Nothing more or less.

And if we must argue about the technical aspects of it... to play mp3s and run firefox as the OP desired, it would take hardware access to the sound card, the video card, and an input device. The video card the OP might be able to get standard VGA running. I seriously doubt he wanted to view the web in that resolution, however. My sound card no one is going to get running. I would have to sit down with the OP and actively help him load the Linux driver for it as well as configure ALSA for it.

And what if he completely kills a device? I've done it with Linux, so don't go there.

And accidents *do* happen. I remember once I completely erased/overwrote my drive using Cthuga. Yes, that innocent-looking VGAlib sound visualizer. I had ran the program countless times prior, but did one boneheaded move and that was the end of that Linux installation.

Re:Don't get me wrong...

[runderwo]

Uh, his friend could always have set an ATA password if the privacy of his data is that important to him.

Re:Don't get me wrong...

[reflective recursion]

Uh, you're missing the point.

Re:Don't get me wrong...

[MemoryDragon]

Well first of all, the machine is probably open as a standard windows install, have you ever had a look at the home editions? User is rooted with full admin rights per default, full access to every aspect of hardware. As for breaking hardware, the only case in Linux I am aware of is around two years old and affected one brand of cd burners.... And in the old days you could break monitors with wrong frequency settings over X, but that is a non issue with knoppix and modern monitors. Correct me if I am wrong. As for the rest, the user itself who pops in the CD does not breach his security, I trust openssh in that regard enough, the people who let him onto their machines basically break their security, which in probably all cases was non existent anyway!

Re:Don't get me wrong...

[ckaminski]

If someone *COULD* run Windows off a CD/DVD without touching my HDD's then yes, I'd consider letting them run it on my Linux machines. I'd maybe pop my drives out of their cages (hotswap), but that's about it.

Re:Don't get me wrong...

[runderwo]

If you say so. With an ATA password, it doesn't matter who puts what CD in your computer and whether you're there or not. Your data is safe from prying eyes.

yeah but....

[to_kallon]

good distro, rather light review, but, and bear with me on this one, what about machines that lack dvd-roms?
i promise they're out there, they're not even uncommon. sure, any pre-packaged machine will have one these days but, imho, one of the advantages to knoppix has always been all the functionality you get from a just one cd. i can certainly see how nice it is to have the choice of 7+ window managers and all those bulky suites that were being cut, but no mention is made regarding the continuation of the cd-based distro. is it going to be dropped?
download time is, as always, also a factor to consider.
i'm sure i'll download and try out this release, as i have with more than i can remember in the past, but it crosses my mind to wonder if such bulk might not hurt the usefullness of a traditionally handy distro.

Re:yeah but....

[JustADude]

That's a fair enough question, but ultimately I suppose it boils down to what one values more... customization vs. number of potential users. These days, it's not asking much to require a dvd-rom in a computer... It's not precisely apples to apples, but isn't this rather a bit like arguments bouncing around at the emergence of CD as a common distribution medium?

Re:yeah but....

[ImaLamer]

I'm thinking of a machine right now that has the DVD drive, but nothing else. IDE has died at the motherboard and will not boot anything other than that DVD drive. And even though the computer is six years old, I want to keep it around. A bootable DVD is perfect for creating a nice little workstation that needs nothing else.

A cheap thumb drive or small USB hard drive and it's a beast again.

Re:yeah but....

[Sancho]

In fact, a mention is not only made, the mention was in the Slashdot blurb:

This is the release that introduces the split between "maxi" DVD and "mini" CD releases.

The big news is that it's on a DVD, so it's no surprise that little detail is given on the CD version. Likely, it will have most of the same stuff that's been on every other CD release.

Re:yeah but....

[Mike Savior]

>what about machines that lack dvd-roms?

That's what you use 3.9 or the "mini" version for. RTFA?

Re:yeah but....

[kesuki]

what about machines that lack dvd-roms?

Go buy a DVD-burner for $41 not only can you burn the iso in the torrent, but you can then boot off it.. maybe you prefer a black front panel $45 or silver $49
perhaps you'd like a full retail box for a few dollars more.

Appologies if the capabilities of said drives vary --; and a few are 'one day sale' links... they go up in price by $4 if you missed out on the 'one day sale' price.

Mind you this is for an NEC brand dvd burner, from a large and well rated online store. So what if your computer doesn't have a DVD-rom? buy one. $50 costs less than a single copy of most software/games, and since you can use this drive to burn and then install linux, you're good to go.

Re:yeah but....

[Micah]

Sure, but that's not terribly practical when you're traveling amongst your friends and family, and not all have new computers with DVDs. You can't just up and order one to check your email or hack your Perl project for an evening.

Think I'll need to carry around both versions of Knoppix for a while...

Re:yeah but....

[Wolfrider]

I was able to test the first DVD beta in Oct 2003 (and in fact installed it to HD, and still running fine!) using Vmware Workstation 3. Didn't have a DVD drive at the time, but *did* have broadband.

Just mount the ISO image as a drive, create a virtual HD disk to store your stuff, and have at it. You should also be able to do the same with qemu (but the last version I tested, a few months back, suffered from crashes.)

Recently upgraded to VMware WS5 (which handles kernel 2.6) and has better GUI. Not a bad deal, as long as you have plenty of RAM (384-512MB recomended) and HD space for your virtual machines -- it's somewhat addictive. ;-)

Re:yeah but....

[Decker-Mage]

if the QEMU functionality is working now you could use Daemon Tools to mount the ISO as a DVD and run it from that under Windows. Not everyone can afford VMWare, Virtual Server, or one of the other solutions out there (I test them all here ;-).

Side note: Addictive ain't extreme enough to describe VMWare WS5. I did the beta for VMWare and WOW! I particularly like teams and multiple snapshots. From a security standpoint, doing risky things on the 'net in a VM is a dream. After you are done, restore to a prior snapshot and who cares what some script-kiddie tried on that VM. That's just one nice thing about it. I really, really need a multiple-way mo-bo with dual-core Opterons stuffed with RAM *evil grin*.

Re:yeah but....

[drsquare]

Buying a DVD burner is all well and good, but how do you know if it's going to work? In my experience, if you roll a dice and get a six, you're lucky enough to get a DVD burner that works as advertised, rather than a fraudulent one.

$41 for a piece of plastic which reads DVDs and doesn't burn them isn't what I consider a good deal. Also is delivery included in that price?

No wonder so many people hate computers. Even when you know enough about the obscure, obfuscated and badly-designed innards to be able to install hardware, half the time you get something which is useless. And there's no way to find out beforehand that doesn't involve hours/days of research crawling through messageboards reading thousands of conflicting opinions:
"Brand A is crap, I use brand B."
"Brand B is crap, I use brand C."
"Brand C is crap, I use brand A."

What the fuck do you do then? Buy every brand until you find one which actually does what it says, rather than nothing?

Re:yeah but....

[kesuki]

$41 for a piece of plastic which reads DVDs and doesn't burn them

Your bad read my post, they should all be 16x Dual layer, dual format DVD burners. I researched the specific model about 6 months ago, and I own one, But at the time I ordered I payed $60. I burn between 6-10 DVDs a month and have had 0 coasters, even though I buy imation spindle media at super 30 cents a disc 'close out prices' at office max.

They weaknesses they have are only 8X -r burning speed, and only 2.4x dual layer burn speed. The strengths include a very low media costering rate, even with media higher priced drives have a 20% failure rate on.

Don't buy by brand, I had a total POS Nec 20x cd-burner, but I'm 100% satisfied with the quality of this model DVD burner. The best thing to do is research products, and when a company has a total winner of a product you buy that one.. Sometimes I try to stick with a particular company because I know they have better business practices than thier competitors, but even then I reasearch which model to buy.

You probably though I meant a DVD-rom drive because you see DVD-burners selling for $80-$100 at retail.. Well, I knew from experience DVD burners were abotu ready to 'hit the floor' in terms of pricing 6 months ago so I started reaserching hard for good models.. This NEC isn't the only good model I found, it just happens to be the cheapest of the good models I found then

Re:yeah but....

[evilviper]

So what if your computer doesn't have a DVD-rom? buy one. $50 costs less than a single copy of most software/games, and since you can use this drive to burn and then install linux, you're good to go.

So you're going to buy a DVD Drive for every computer you come across that still has a CD-ROM? That would start getting expensive, very quickly.

The parent is right, for something like this, you really want to stick with the CD version (unless you want to carry around both).

In the interests of killing discussion...

[tezbobobo]

I now present a multichoice rant.

It gets kudos for being better than the last installment but it will never be as good as because .

I would suggest Graphics, Security, Utility, Marginalisation for reasons and OS X, Windows, Fedora, and FreeBSD for operating systems.

Re:In the interests of killing discussion...

[ToasterofDOOM]

Fedora? Yuck. (I'm not posting anonymously because I read your sig) I dislike RPM based distros. It just seems messy and gives the user less control. Also, this too might just be me bu I have never had any luck with getting it to work all right. But take this with a grain of salt as it comes from an admitted control freak (and aspiring ruler of the universe) of a Gentoo user =D

Re:In the interests of killing discussion...

[CastrTroy]

I don't find that using source code over using an RPM distro works any better. If the RPM based distro is good, and you can get all the packages, then it works quite well. On the other hand, I find that when I can't find and RPM package, and need to compile, there's often problems when things won't compile because of one reason or another. Like not being able to find something I just installed.

Re:In the interests of killing discussion...

[tezbobobo]

I used Redhat from about 99 to 2003. Now I use Suse coz it just works better with my hardware (winmodem excluded). I also did an LSF but it took A LOT to get working to my liking. I am still looking for the perfect disk based distribution with seemless integration with USB drive etc.. When that comes along I'll be in heaven. I think the real problem is getting a disk based distribution to work as well as an install system.

Re:FP

[xotx69]

NO!

Kid in a candy store?

[lheal]

Having RTFA, I see he meant it was fun to look at all the cool treats in store for Knoppix users.

I was hoping he didn't mean morbidly obese, toothless, and spoiled rotten by overindulgent or inattentive parents.

Re:Kid in a candy store?

[Sensible Clod]

Absolutely amazing humor! Mod parent insightful too!

Does more really equal better?

[Darth_brooks]

It's nice that you can cram every single package under the sun onto a DVD, but does it really make "knoppix" any better? I mean, the review basically says "OMG Packages! I can run teh Gnome & Firefox, then KDE and Konq! This makes knoppix awesome!!!

I'm more interested in what the 4.0 "mini" release.

Re:Does more really equal better?

[Sabalon]

I would be more likely to use it as it now sounds like I can possibly have it close to how I want it configured, with UnionFS, I don't have to lose my changes, and it's chocked full of tools so I can just have one Knoppix DVD instead of a couple of specific variation knoppix CD's.

I agree the review is of the "ohh...shiny" sort, but at the same time being able to carry one DVD and boot to a known (and fully equipped) environment is a nice thing. (assumming where you go has a DVD drive!)

Re:Does more really equal better?

[Mozk]

It's "chock full," not "chocked full." Call me a Grammar Nazi if you wish.

Re:Does more really equal better?

[earthbound kid]

For a lot of people, the reason to make a Knoppix disc is to use it on other people's computers. If it was your computer, you'd just install Linux instead of using a disc, right? Now, if you're using someone else's computer, and then you probably don't have time to download and install a bunch of packages. Therefore, the more packages you can bring with you, the better, since you won't have to waste time retrieving them from the internet.

Makes sense to me.

Re:Does more really equal better?

[arodland]

You're not a Nazi; you're just Chock Full o' Nuts.

Re: Knoppix plug

[skreeech]

no but they have wings

Languages?

[neonenergy]

whats the language support for these torrent isos?

At the other end of the spectrum ...

[Anonymous Coward]

we have Damn Small Linux. www.damnsmalllinux.org

It takes just 50 MB and can be run off read only memory (or memory that you shouldn't write too much to) like compact flash or a usb dongle. It is a riff off Knoppix. It is the easiest way to create an 'embedded' system that I've seen.

Not only does Linux scale well but so, apparently, does Knoppix.

Re:At the other end of the spectrum ...

[Carlos Laviola]

Knoppix is based on Debian; that's where it gets its scalability.

Re:At the other end of the spectrum ...

[nicktripp]

White Dwarf Linux loads in only 13MB of Flash memory but has more than enough features and apps to run an embedded system. Just another option to be considered while they're being tossed out.

Re:At the other end of the spectrum ...

[m50d]

A better alternative to damn small linux is austrumi. Full versions of Abiword, the Gimp, gnumeric, mplayer etc., rather than the cut-down alternatives DSL tends to include. Also, in the medium range I recommend SLAX.

Maxi = DVD, Mini = CD

[aywwts4]

http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/12/21/ 0050255&tid=190 So dont worry; we can have the best of both worlds.

Re: Knoppix plug

[Anonymous Coward]

no no. the maxi has the britney spears song as a bonus track.

XFree?

[nukem996]

I just looked at the package list and Knoppix is still using XFree. Is Knoppix the only distro that still uses that? Why havnt they done to X.org? When the hole licence thing happened I switched all my machines(im on gentoo) and I never had a problem. Anyway it looks like a great release and I look foward to getting it.

Re:XFree?

[Bri3D]

Because Debian(which Knoppix is based on) still runs XFree.

Re:XFree?

[4of11]

I guess they'll change eventually... but at this point, what does Xorg really have that XFree doesn't? Sure it's got the compositing support (shadows, transparency), but that's pretty flaky from what I've seen. I personally haven't had much success with that stuff. Other than that, I don't know of much difference. Why change, until there's a good reason to?

Re:XFree?

[Lisandro]

X.Org is quite more stable than the latest release of XFree in my opinion. Besides, XFree is being (slowly) ditched by the OSS comunity in favor of X.Org. Right now the two are pretty much the same, even at driver level, but this won't be the case for long. Why don't do the switch now that it's completely painless?

Re:XFree?

[iabervon]

A couple of pages full of updated drivers, for one. One of the problems with XFree86 was that releases took forever and were very conservative, such that video hardware rarely survived long enough for the drivers to actually get into a release. This left lots of people stuck with the generic, non-accelerated drivers, with limited video modes and slow graphics.

Re:XFree?

[jbolden]

Because Knoppix doesn't have to do the switch, the Debian team does. Major package changes across a dozen platforms isn't going to be painless so Debian is in process now.

Re:XFree?

[strider44]

It'll take them another couple of months to change but Debian will change to X.Org eventually! There's still a couple of issues eg the C++ conversion that are apparently more important at the moment. It won't happen overnight, but it will happen.

Re:XFree?

[stuuf]

This left lots of people stuck with the generic, non-accelerated drivers, with limited video modes and slow graphics.

You speak as if this was in the past, but ATI cards still exist....

Re:XFree?

[Lisandro]

As it is, switching to X.Org is completely painless, on every architecture: you don't even need to rename your config files! Drivers work, configs work. The codebase hasn't been forked too much besided some newer extensions. You can literally uninstall one and install the other and continue using your system like nothing happened.

But you're right, it's Debian mantainers' job to do this. For better or worse, knowing Debians' history, it will take a good while until it reaches stable.

Re:XFree?

[Aeiri]

I really don't understand why Debian of all distros still uses XFree. They are the most politically involved (for lack of better terms) distro, in that they promote that no software in it is not 100% "free".

Re:XFree?

[Pastis]

They still use (a Branch of) XFree 4.3.
The license issues appeared just before 4.4
So there are no freedom issues.

Re:XFree?

[stm2]

They are the most politically involved (for lack of better terms) distro

There is another distro more "political" than Debian. It's Ututo-e. Is the only one sponsored by FSF. Acording to RMS, Debian is not kasher enought for him.
Here is a review.

Re:XFree?

[jbolden]

Ubuntu is based on the next version of Debian to come out not the current one.

Re:XFree?

[iabervon]

In fact, X.org's latest release notes have a substantial section on driver improvements for ATI cards which, as far as I can tell, didn't make it into XFree86's more recent release.

Isn't open source

[suezz]

marvelous - what innovation going on - here you got Ubuntu, Knoppix, Xandros, and even Linspire along with a ton of other distros like PClinux, Mepis etc etc I could go on and on.
Along with Redhat pushing open source into the enterprise in the United States.

I am just glad I support open source and give money, time, and expertise when I can. There is always something new to learn and I really look forward to the future.

People you can live without windows. So keep up all you open source heads - I am really having fun and I don't think the real fun has even started yet.

Re:Isn't open source

[suezz]

uhh? my fonts on my linux box are much more prettier than my windows xp box at work -

god xp is ugly - how anyone could say it is prettier than anything - well I just don't know.

you are right about the dvd stuff - but then again if I am going to watch a dvd I usually sit down with the family and watch on my main television in my living so I guess I can't say anything about that.

But I do make movies from my family video camcorder and they work great on any dvd player
don't have a dvd burner yet so I just used svcd cd's - my movies aren't very long anyway.

my xp doesn't run lighter but then again it is an image from work so I don't really have control over it but it's a hog and it does crash every now and then but I am sure it is the desktop support folks at my work and it could be made to be a lot more stabler and prettier with money of course.

I don't even know what DC++ and Soulseek clients
are so I can't say anything about that but you can always suggest they make a linux client to the manufacturer or make one yourself and give something back to the community.

"Now sorry for the ranting, I love linux, but this everything by the book legal shit is getting obnoxious. I'm sick of dancing all over the place to watch a video or play an audio file or whatever."
You need to try a distribution like debian or ubuntu and all you need to do is apt-get whatever you need - although I haven't tried the dvdcss encryption stuff because that is basicly illegal here in the land of the free United States and like I said I am not a big movie watcher - but I can play every video file on the internet except wmv's 9 or above but I don't really run into too much of those - and so far the sites I run across that do you use it - I send a message to the webmaster to let them know that alternatives exist. they usually are pretty nice and say thanks or just don't give an answer.

I do share your frustration sometimes - but that is the beauty of open source it forces open standards and you can see who are the slime balls out there that are out to screw people and make quick buck and don't really care about standards except their own. do you really want to support companies that do that or ones that are actually out to serve their customers.

Whenever I updated or upgrade my os using apt-get it has never broken any of my apps - but then again that just may be me.

Also I guess you are luckier than me in windows but whenever I install something new it breaks something else and then I get into registry hell and can't get out - windows is a flawed architecture and needs to be redesigned.

Re:Isn't open source

[suezz]

no I won't - you will / can live perfectly without windows.

Re: DVD Distros

[nukem996]

Funny I just tried that. On my machine and my dads machine SUSE would crash no matter what. We both run Linux full time and have never had a problem with Knoppix. We did finally get it to run on my IBM Thinkpad. After seeing it I think ill stick with Gentoo for my distro and Knoppix for my LiveCD.

FYI: you can't choose the software

[beforewisdom]

Please don't interpret this as a downer.

I use knoppix myself, I think it is the best distro out there and I plan on continue using knoppix.

I am just posting this because I was curious about it and had to go to the trouble to find out.

If you are interested in installing the DVD version of Knoppix to your hard drive you have to install it all. You can't pick and choose among the software.

FWIW.....

Re:FYI: you can't choose the software

[Anubis350]

While true, IMHO its not worth it to install knoppix anyway. If you want to have it run locally and choose your software, install debian (which knoppix is based on) and pick and choose to your hearts content. Knoppix really isnt intended as a distro for a stationary desktop to be booted to all the time. It was (pre squeaky new debian installer) a good way to install debian a while ago though...

Re:FYI: you can't choose the software

[beforewisdom]

It was (pre squeaky new debian installer) a good way to install debian a while ago though...

Interesting!

I heard about the new installer being under developement a long time ago, but I did not know it was finished.

Is it as easy as knoppix to use?

Are there problems with drivers not being avaiable do to free software issues?

Does it come with multimedia stuff compiled into the kernel?

Re:FYI: you can't choose the software

[Issue9mm]

If it isn't, Ubuntu definitely is.

-9mm-

Re:FYI: you can't choose the software

[beforewisdom]

Does ubuntu use the new debian installer?

Re:FYI: you can't choose the software

[bfree]

Well if you really want to you can boot with the unionfs cheatcode, and then apt-get remove to your hearts content, and then install your now smaller system. As someone else has said though it historically hasn't been worth the effort. If you want something like Knoppix which is installable, try Kanotix!

Saving a borked system

[kebes]

Many of you already know this, but one of the great things about linux LiveCDs is the ability to work on an otherwise screwed-up computer, and salvage it (or the data on it, etc.). A LiveCD is absolutely great for fixing a Windows or linux PC that has gotten messed up. For instance, you can create backup images of disks using partimage and restore them with a LiveCD (in particular, the SystemRescueDisk is good for that).

A Knoppix LiveDVD is more geared towards booting a PC and being productive (with OpenOffice, Blender 3D, etc.)... however it's a great thing to have lying around because you can diagnose and repair a system, do a full virus scan (as pointed out in TFA), while having internet access, being able to open relevant wordprocessor documents, etc. etc. A LiveDVD like this could also help in extracting files from a corrupt filesystem (you can open and work with the files immediately, if that becomes necessary).

To anyone in the /. crowd that has not played with LiveCDs yet (or linux at all) you should seriously consider burning a copy and seeing what all the fuss is about.

Re:Saving a borked system

[quigonn]

Actually, I prefer GRML for all kind of sysadmin tasks, since it is especially designed for system administrators who need to do stuff like recovering broken Windows installations, network debugging, security audits of IT infrastructure, etc.

Re:Saving a borked system

[tweek]

CAll me when one of these livecds has a version of parted that supports ext3 properly.

I ended up having to boot off a gentoo livecd to resize a fucked up ghost image that size all my partitions incorrectly.

Okay *I* forgot to resize them upon reghosting but STILL.

Re:Saving a borked system

[winse]

there is a utility that will remove the journal to change ext3 to ext2 and will then add it again to make ext3 after you restore the ext2 image. Some Karma whore could look this up for me. I used it once to back up well configured test machine. Now reiser is another story and you can probably just forget about LVM.

Re:Saving a borked system

[tweek]

I actually tried that but it never worked reliably. And as far as reiser goes, I simply don't create any reiser partitions (or xfs for our postgres systems) until I'm ready to allocate the server. I found out once how well ghost did with resier when it decided to do a bit by bit copy of a 300GB empty volume.

Re:EN release?

[OverlordQ]

There is no 'release' at all really. The DVD's for LinuxTag are basically one-off 4.0 discs, the 'real' 4.0 release usually comes out a couple weeks later and might include a couple more updates.

Re:Hooray!!

[Anonymous Coward]

byte people_who_care == IdleTime;
int64 people_who_care_less == Everyone().Else;

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

English version

[Anonymous Coward]

The DVD boots into German by default, but this can be changed with the "lang=us" cheatcode(several other languages are also supported).

Re:English version

[agm]

What if you want it in english instead of american?

a rescue dvd fork

[photon_chac]

which can multi-boot knoppix/x86 knoppix/ppc knoppix/x86_64(exist?) will be real handy.

Re: DVD Distros

[Chicago Wolves]

It's funny you should bring that I up. I just solved the same problem last week on my 9.3

This link below solved almost all of my problems. Go to the multimedia section and pick out the codecs.
http://packman.links2linux.de/

In the libraries section look for the Win32-Codecs

The only thing I'm still frustrated is the Python libraries, and .asx audio streams. I can't get iPodder to work with it. I had the same problem with Fedora Core as well.

Hope this helps!

DVD Compression?

[ElectroBot]

Does anyone know if the DVD releases (incl. this one) from now on will include compression like the CD version of Knoppix? I'm d/l'ing it now, but just wondering whether actual disc reading will be faster (no decompression) on the DVD version?

Re:DVD Compression?

[XanC]

Along the lines of what our friend at -1 said, having uncompressed data on the DVD isn't an automatic win.

Suppose you can read 10M/s from the disc. If it's uncompressed, that's exactly what your throughput is. What if you get 2:1 compression (at least for that piece of data)? Suddenly your effective throughput is 20M/s.

Obviously this is a tradeoff between media speed and CPU/memory. But it's very likely that the Knoppix DVD contains a compressed filesystem to increase performance.

Define unreleased

[slapout]

Two quotes from the Slashdot summary:

"nice review of the new yet unreleased Knoppix"

"currently available torrent files for the DVD"

Someone must be using a definition of "unreleased" that I'm not fimilar with.

Re:Define unreleased

[MstrFool]

After trying to DL it since the article was posted, I think they are using a different deff for 'available'.

Re: Knoppix plug

[skreeech]

no redbull is how they get the wings.

activex conrtols of do(o)m [n/t]

[sum.zero]

this text is not here.

sum.zero

USB Flash Drives

[Hal XP]

I think the wave of the future isn't live DVDs, but GNU/Linux distros you can boot off the USB thumb (or pen) drive that hangs off your neck. The prices and capacities of such drives continue to fall such that 2GB versions are now within an employed geek's price range.

Having a bootable necklace is way cooler than a live DVD, almost like the stuff of a James Bond movie. For when was the last time you brought along a 12 cm data DVD to a rave party?

Here's one. It only tops off at 128MB though. So it's little more than a bootable business card.

Re:USB Flash Drives

[Laebshade]

You might think USB thumb drives are better, but you have to realize the majority of PCs out there can't boot from USB, whereas most can boot from DVD (as long as they have a DVD drive). If you think about it, it's rather strange; USB has been standard on a PC for ages.

Re:USB Flash Drives

[Antique Geekmeister]

Unfortunately, a lot of old systems don't have bootable USB accessible without yanking the system away from the wall and plugging in the back, or use weird chipsets that it's hard to build kernels to deal with.

The live bootable CD's and DVD's work very well because booting from the built-in CD or DVD is something any modern system absolutely must support. They're also very useful in that you can't write anything on them, and this helps prevent all sorts of potential security concerns, unlike the bootable USB devices.

Re: Knoppix plug

[skreeech]

There are girls out there that don't have the knowledge of knoppix dvds. If you met them away from the internet you would know this already.

Re:Lang + torrent

[QuaZar666]

how exactly is that a cheat code? it isn't anything that special. Now if you had to use the Konami Code to change the language then I would say it was a cheat code.

Re: Knoppix plug

[geeber]

Man that is heelarious, because nobody ever made that joke before.

Oh wait, I forgot. Slashdot is all about beating a dead horse.

I think you forgot something

[Weaselmancer]

Namely, your meds. You're frothing.

Excuse I was looking for

[Phoenixhunter]

I've been sitting on the fence for too long now as an IT professional, and if I'm always working with NT then I'm going to lose my perspective, and my edge. Here I go!

Re:Excuse I was looking for

[Approaching.sanity]

Welcome to the fold.

Re: Knoppix plug

[maotx]

Oh, that's right, you don't have one...

Thats what I keep telling my wife.

Re:Get on those torrents

[flatface]

If you have to explain the acronym, don't use it.

Waiting for an actual review

[Stauf]

I really don't like it when people pass of a blog entry as a review. The author tells us that "There are simply tons of packages on this DVD", and spends three paragraphs (about a third of the 'review') describing ClamAV and how to use it - something which has little or nothing to do with Knoppix on DVD apart from that fact that it's included.

Nothing against Kyle Rankin and his blog of course, he's doing what blogs do. And it is nice to know I can now run Gnome. But shame on you Mr. IdleTime.

Re:Visit Knoppix.net for more Knoppix 4.0 info

[UnderScan]

You can find torrent trackers & even info on how to hexedit the ISO to force it to US English at the Knoppix.net forum thread.

Re:I don't see how 'more' can hurt

[Psykechan]

Yea, but if I'm forced to download those extra digits then they better be worth my time.

Not to mention the fact that while just about every PC these days will have a CD-ROM drive, only about 25% of them will have a DVD-ROM drive making me have to carry two discs; one with everything and one scaled down to work everywhere. Well at least mostly everywhere as I have several PPC systems and Knoppix has always been x86.

Everything including the kitchen sink???

[poind3xt3r]

Can the new version wash my dishes?

Re:Everything including the kitchen sink???

[Approaching.sanity]

Actually this has been an extension for FF for quite some time now.

https://addons.mozilla.org/extensions/moreinfo.p hp?application=firefox&category=Humor&numpg=10&id= 742

Re:FYI: you can't choose the software. True

[UnderScan]

This is true. The installer is a dialog/Xdialog script that guides the user to partition the HD, create a user account, enter the root passwd, and then decompresses the entire compresed loopback KNOPPIX and KNOPPIX2 files to the new partition. Then it applies the user info, converts the init & runlevels to be normal init system, and installs grub to the MBR. At no point is there any choice in deciding which packages to install since ALL of them get installed.

Knoppix users & newbies should also note that installing Knoppix to the HD is not recommended since something tends to break. In Knoppix 3.9, networking was broken due to a missing link in /etc/rc*.d. In past releases new users that installed Knoppix also experienced fstab problems in regards to optical drives and had difficulties in using the Debian package system since at that time Knoppix was a mixture of Debian stable/testing/unstable.

Install? You seem to be confused.

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps you should look up what, exactly, this Knoppix thing is.

I'm more interested in hyper-threaded P4 support

[Jetson]

I have one PC with a hyper-threading P4 and the recent Knoppix and Ubuntu live CD's I've tried lately all fail to boot. The LILO screen works and the kernel loads, but almost immediately I get a flood of error messages about IRQ 18 and then the kernels all hang or slowly repeat the errors over and over again.

not damn small enough

[zippthorne]

Tomsrtbt, http://www.toms.net/rb, fits on a floppy disk. (one of the ways he saves space is by taking out the extraneous Os and spaces in 'Tom's Root Boot'

Re:not damn small enough

[Urusai]

Does he replace all those fat 0s with skinnier 1s in the binary too?

Re:not damn small enough

[UserGoogol]

He considered it, but he experienced an unacceptable performance loss when the 1s started getting stuck in the wires. 0s don't have that problem of course. No sharp edges.

Re:not damn small enough

[david.given]

He considered it, but he experienced an unacceptable performance loss when the 1s started getting stuck in the wires. 0s don't have that problem of course. No sharp edges.

If you line the 1s up lengthways, they slide down real easy. Just make sure that your way doesn't have any sharp kinks in it, or they may clog. Some people have had luck in soaking their 1s in water before transmission; it makes them easier to bend. However, wet ones have a tendency to stick together and they tend to come out the far end in clumps --- which is bad. Nothing makes a LAN game lag like soggy packets.

Re:not damn small enough

[wilper]

This is why we have antialised fonts, the smoother rendering makes the 1s go through the lines without getting stuck, no more need for soaking.

Re:not damn small enough

[Little Pink Bunny]

s/games/sound/ and I'd swear I read that exact thing on an audiophile website once. You know - one of the ones that claims gold bits sound "warmer" than silver bits?

Re:Hooray!!

[patio11]

Alright, what mod rewarded a point to a post that couldn't get the assignment operator right?

Re:Get the "New yet unreleased" torrent here...

[stuuf]

Is the tracker called "Mr. Torrent" or something? At least that looked like a SpaceBalls reference.

Torrent Speed

[OneArmedMan]

bit off topic i know .. sorry.

but with Torrents like this , what is the fastest speed people have seen ( for the swarm i mean )

atm i am getting this Knoppix ISO at about 50Kps and seeing a swarm speed of about 9Mbytes/sec

interesting to see how fast distributed networks really can be.

Re:Torrent Speed

[OneArmedMan]

I just used this link

http://www.mininova.org/tor/60628 Mininova

that was in the story, it took a while but started going ok.

Absolutely!

[timothy]

I forget whether it was knoppix or mepis that did the best job of it, but I used this approach to help a friend's grandmother save the files from her virus-stuffed Windows PC. (Booted up with the LiveCD, moved files to external disk, removed suspicious files from the Windows partition ... inelegant, and I'm certain it was not a great job of it, but the machine did work better afterward.)

She wants me to put on Linux so she can just never have the Windows problems again anyhow, and perhaps I'll take that risk. However, she can get free (and frequent ;)) Windows support at work, and since I won't be living nearby anymore, that might be the smarter thing to keep doing. Hopefully her boss gets sick of it and says to switch to Linux ;)

timothy

Re:Get on those torrents

[benna]

How would any acronyms come into the general lexicon then?

Re:Get the "New yet unreleased" torrent here...

[JVert]

I'm hoping to get enough bandwidth so I can stream the future.

Re:Waiting for an actual review.

[UnderScan]

Knoppix 4.0 is brand spanking new release only as a 4GB ISO that at last check had a 230:1140 seed to downloader ratio. I think that is why there is little to no info about it.

As for the review, if you are at all familiar with Knoppix then it is just the same Knoppix with a huge load of packages, some GUI improvements, and some new functionality brought about by using packages & configuration info from Knoppix derivatives (like Kanotix) that was then accepted by Klaus Knoppix & fed back into Knoppix mainline. I felt that Knoppix 3.9 was ugly and now 4.0 uses KDE 3.4.1 with the Plastik widget style as default as opposed to previous release which used Keramik on KDE 3.4.0. Those folks who were missing GNOME can now use GNOME 2.8 since it has been missing for at least 18 months. Knoppix 4.0 uses a older more stable snapshot of UnionFS and will now not crash or exhibit strange filesystem behaviors like 3.9 did. V4.0 includes OO.o 2.0 beta, KOffice & if I recall correctly, abiword & gnumeric so it looks like office apps are all covered. If you want specifics on the packages, then look to the package list file on the Knoppix mirrors.

Knoppix users & newbies should also note that installing Knoppix to the HD is not recommended since something tends to break. In Knoppix 3.9, networking was broken due to a missing link in /etc/rc*.d. In past releases new users that installed Knoppix also experienced fstab problems in regards to optical drives and had difficulties in using the Debian package system since at that time Knoppix was a mixture of Debian stable/testing/unstable. Knoppix 4.0 is using Debian unstable for all of its packages, so maintenance of the HD should be easier than before. So far the only thing broken in a HD install of Knoppix 4.0 is manpages functionality. man ls or man vi works on DVD but is broken when run from the HD install.

Like most special conference releases (ex: Knoppix 3.8 Cebit Edition), Knoppix 4.0 DVD edition from LinuxTag, is standardized in German but contains support for many languages. A boot time cheat code of: knoppix lang=us will force it to load in US English. A more permanent method is to hexedit the ISO and change the lang=de entries to lang=us. Again like most conference releases, Klaus Knopper did not officially release the DVD as in is only for sale at LinuxTag for 5 euros. As a FOSS project, it is legal to distribute the ISO and this is what someone has done. You can find torrent trackers, screenshot galleries, and more info at the Knoppix 4.0 DVD Knoppix.net forum thread about.

that's why it's split now :)

[timothy]

I (sort of) agree with you; about half of my computer stable is ruled out by the DVD version. However, a) I also don't have any floppy drives; there's no one format that will make everyone happy all the time b) DVD seems a pretty conservative standard to aim for in the near future -- the new high-capacity media that are coming out in the same size disk I bet will all (or mostly) be backward compatible and c) since there's a CD version, too, the DVD version can be in the future for those without DVD drives everywhere. CDs remain my favorite target medium, though -- they are as close to ubiquitous as things generally get in the computer world. Even if (when) DVD drives are as widespread as CD drives are now, that's still a lot of data to pull down, and expensive if you don't have absolutely all-you-can-eat data service.

timothy

Re:that's why it's split now :)

[CastrTroy]

I'm hoping the next big media switch yields a change in form factor. I would welcome the thought of a disk that you didn't have to handle like fine china. At this point I could deal with a little incompatibility between drives, like we all did with the VHS/DVD switch. It would be nice to have something smaller, which would still probably hold 10 times as much as a DVD, and have a nice protective casing around it. Kind of like a minidisc.

Re: Knoppix plug

[takeya]

the bittorrent trackers have all been slashdotted.

could someone post a trackerless torrent/alternative link?

NTFS writing support

[sucker_muts]

Has the 4.0 DVD version (or any other) have NTFS writing support by now? Perhaps by checking out the partitions on a pc and look for win NT/XP/2k3 and rip out it's ntfs dll. Nothing illigal with that, and no risk of ruining the filesystem.

This seems to be the only serious missing element in knoppix for me when somebody's windows really got fucked up. I need to get really creative to solve some problems when I don't have write acces, and that mostly implies a lot of rebooting... :-(

Re:NTFS writing support

[bustersnyvel]

Hey, if people choose to use the most incompatible filesystem on the planet, it's their choice. If it causes their system to be unrepairable, let them complain to Microsoft.

Re:NTFS writing support

[TwoTailedFox]

If it's an OEM system preinstalled with NTFS, you can't really blame the user for it.

NTFS may be the most incompatible file system out there, but it's one of the best. And it's actully NTFS.sys, not NTFS.dll.

Reverse Engineering NTFS will take a long time it is, after all, a closely guarded trade secret of Microsoft (Even after versions 1.2 and 3.0 got released via the NT4 and 2000 Source Code leaks).

It is entirely possible to sue Microsoft for using NTFS as a way of extending it's monopoly on operating systems. True, if you own a license for Windows NT/2000/XP, you're allowed to use NTFS.sys to provide 3rd-party program access to NTFS partitions.

But, that defeats the whole point of open-source. You should have NTFS available out-of-the-box, not done via an addon.

Re:NTFS writing support

[bustersnyvel]

NTFS may be the most incompatible file system out there, but it's one of the best.

Do you have any articles that support that statement? I'd like to read them.

Re:NTFS writing support

[TwoTailedFox]

http://www.pro-networks.org/XPMaNiA/fat32.shtml http://www.mcmcse.com/windows_xp/guides/filesystem s.shtml The advantages listed in both certainly make for good reading.

Re:NTFS writing support

[bustersnyvel]

Ok, so apparently you ment "NTFS is better than FAT" instead of "NTFS is one of the best filesystems", since both documents only look at NTFS and FAT.

Re:NTFS writing support

[TwoTailedFox]

It's one of the best available under Microsoft Windows (I said nothing about it's performance under Linux), even including Ext2 support under Windows. Under Linux, Reiser4 would be an excellent OS, if only for it's very fast access times. NTFS is 'one of the best', I never said 'The Best'. And NTFS is one of the best compared to FAT, Ext2/3, etc.

Re:NTFS writing support

[anomalous cohort]

have NTFS writing support by now

I know that version 3.6 supported writing to NTFS 5 (a.k.a. WinXP). It's a little bit of a pain because you have to run this tool and find the NTFS DLLs with it but it does work. It is my understanding that all versions of knoppix can write to NTFS 4 (i.e. Win2K) machines.

Re:NTFS writing support

[allaunjsilverfox2]

Agreed, I would say that its a step foward. I mean, I would love to know for sure that my NTFS partiton would be fully supported without having to use captive or something similar, but its better then having fat32 or something similar. And TwoTailed, email me, i would love to have another fox to talk to. :-)

Offtopic, but did you see the...

[Eightyford]

Offtopic, but did you see the subscribers only feature at the top of the page. I guess now subscribers get to see the stories 10-20 minutes earlier than the poor people. I think this will work out nice for them. No more "woot frist post" people! Go knoppix

Re:Offtopic, but did you see the...

[jkmiecik]

It's always been that way.

You must be new here.

Shit, does that even *work* here?

For Windows repair

[Sycraft-fu]

I prefer a Windows live CD. You get a full working NTFS read/write driver that way, and you can get support for any other drivers Windows has that way. Go to http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/ and you get the software necessary to build it. It's a little bit of a pain to set up, but once done you boot to a working Windows evnironment.

Knoppix is nice for Linux recovery, and I did encounter one NTFS partion that was seriously messed up that Windows didn't know was NTFS but Knoppix could (sorta) read.

Re:For Windows repair

[Suddenly_Dead]

Knoppix has a utility called "Captive". This nice little utility allows you to actually use the NTFS driver from a Windows installation (Knoppix supports NTFS Reading right off the bat) in order to get fully working NTFS Read/Write.

You could also put the NTFS(.sys?) driver on a USB drive, or a floppy to use. OR you could use Captive's builtin ability to download some service pack from Microsoft's website and automatically grab the file from there, though it takes awhile to download and I'm sure Microsoft doesn't like it. But heck, if you're burning a copy of Windows to a CD, I'm sure you don't care about EULA nonsense.

Re:For Windows repair

[Decker-Mage]

Not everyone is restricted by their EULA's to installing any particular version of Windows to just one machine. My license runs to having 10 of each (Win'2K all variants, Win'XP Pro) on ten machines at the same time. Kind of hard to run out of licenses don'tcha know if ya don't have that many machines you are working on at the same time. And this doesn't even go into the raft of other licenses I hold. Don't ass-u-me that everyone that uses this setup is busting a EULA. Maybe most are, but that's their problem. For field engineers this is highly recommended.

Re:For Windows repair

[Sycraft-fu]

Well where I work we have a neraly unlimited license to deploy Windows. I would prefer to use a known stable NTFS read/write driver. While playing with Linux may be fun, when I'm recovering a system getting data without damage takes precidence.

It is additonally useful in that you can install Windows virus scanners and the like on the live CD. It allows for virus cleanup in an unmounted setting, minimizing the possibility that the virus can do anything to stop it.

So thanks, but given that PEbuilder costs nothing, MS has at the very least decided to allow it to be distributed (it was taken down for awhile at their request, they then reversed their stance) and I seem to be in full compliance of the license we have, I'll keep using it. I find that OS zealotry gains me nothing and costs me a lot. Using the best tool for the job is in my best intrests at work. Researchers care little if I use Linux to recover their system, they care that it is recovered quickly and as fully as is possible.

Re:For Windows repair

[Suddenly_Dead]

This, this a good point.

Re:For Windows repair

[Suddenly_Dead]

I was only stating this because it's quite relevant to the article (which is on Knoppix), and rebukes the "you can't do NTFS with Knoppix" arguement. I like the PEbuilder as well; I use a variant of it myself because I can use Windows specific utilities, since Windows naturally has more Windows-related tools.

Captive, as I said, utilizes the actual NTFS driver via Wine. I have not had a single issue writing with it.

Why 3 links for 1 metafile?

[Rafikichi]

Timothy, why link to three seperate web pages that each contain links to the same metafile?

Re:Get on those torrents

[Adam9]

HWAACITGLT?

The cult most of /. is a part of...

[Rafikichi]

Click here for a complete understanding of the ethical code of any true /. 'member'..... http://fsf.org/

Re:I'm more interested in hyper-threaded P4 suppor

[Wolfrider]

Try different kernel parms at boot, or shuffle your PCI cards around. At any rate, you're lucky - my IRQ only goes up to 15. ;-)

Try boot: parm " pci=bios " (? IIRC) to see if it will boot; then you can DL the source, recompile the kernel and test at your leisure.

--See this for more info:
ftp://ftp.uni-kl.de/pub/linux/knoppix/knoppix-chea tcodes.txt

Re:Get on those torrents

[hdparm]

Nope. echo HWAACITGLT >> general_lexicon

Re:I don't see how 'more' can hurt

[earthbound kid]

"Yea, but if I'm forced to download those extra digits then they better be worth my time."

No one's "forcing" you to do anything. If you want the CD version, you're welcome to download it. In fact, you're welcome to not download anything if each digit used on your internet connection is so precious to you....

Meanwhile, informal office survey:

Of the 5 different desks with 5 different laptops on them around me, 4 have DVDs. Besides, if you're already carrying around a separate PPC disc, one more won't break your back.

How someone can complain about having more good choices is beyond me.

"Why did they make a DVD version? Don't they know I'll just keep using the CD version! I'm so upset!"

Re: Knoppix plug

[hdparm]

Considering 'Insightful' moderation, you must be growing pair of wings by now.

Re:Get on those torrents

[Piranhaa]

lol (laughing/lots out/of loud/laughs)

Re:Uh --yep

[cosmic-shadow]

And the DE in the filename of two of the other links make me suspicious that they are German.
That would be exactly right. Knoppix was originally developed by Claus Knopper, who is German, and the project was originated in Germany. It only makes sense that the first mirrors would originate in Germany as well.

New Torrents?

[MonoNexo]

No new torrents yet? Can someone please create a new one if you were fast enough to grab the torrent before the tracker went down?

Thanks!

Re:Get on those torrents

[pahles]

lots of loud?

So ugly

[Alioth]

Knoppix is fantastic - it's been a great system-saver and diagnostic tool, as well as my way of making a ghosting system.

My only complaint is if you let it load the desktop, the desktop is incredibly ugly - busy amateurish backgrounds, and almost always the ugliest KDE themes. I can see Knoppix putting off a lot of people who would otherwise move to Linux when they see the awful desktop theme in Knoppix. Can't they make it simple and elegant like Red Hat's Bluecurve?

Re:Torrentreactor???!!

[EzInKy]

Nice of slashdot editors to link to the torrents, but do you really want to promote a site like torrenreactor, a place that knowingly links to torrents to copyrighted works??

They have to provide links to copyrighted works if they want people to use torrents to download distros.

usenet

[zbuffered]

nntp://alt.binaries.freeware

Those torrents are about as fast as a beowolf cluster without electricity.

Re:Torrentreactor???!!

[DashEvil]

Bullshit argument. There is no correlation between wanting the GPL to be enforced and wanting music, movies, and games copyrights to be obliterated. You are doing undue pregidious to to honest copyright respecting slashdot readers. If you want to attack those that pirate games/etc, do so, you do not need to drag innocent people through the mud for it.

IDE cards for PCI are cheap...

[billstewart]

Of course, so are motherboards.
It's probably too old a BIOS to boot from USB or Firewire?

Re:IDE cards for PCI are cheap...

[ImaLamer]

I've looked into replacing the board - the machine is 6 years old. A mobo replacement would cost about $150.

As far as buying *any* hardware, I say "why" when a 30 cent DVD will give me a functioning machine. I just wanted a place to store settings, and a file share serves that purpose.

Is the DVD layout Extensible? Compressed?

[billstewart]

UnionFS gets rave reviews, but is it possible to write the DVD in some extensible format that lets you burn the basic Knoppix onto it and then burn some extra data tracks for other applications (and then mount them with UnionFS or whatever)? That would make it easy to upgrade packages and to add a bunch of user data onto the basic distro, without having to rebuild your own.

Also, I'm curious if the files are compressed? It's a tradeoff of storage and disk read speed vs. CPU speed, and unlike CDs, I'm not sure if it's a win, but DVDs only have ~4.7GB for regular or 8.5 for double-layer, so you'll run out of space after a while :-)

Links to torrents

[l1nuXB0X]

http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19685 &start=10 I've been getting about 40k so far, please be sure to seed!

Booting from External USB2 DVDs?

[billstewart]

Does anybody know if you can boot Knoppix from external DVDs using USB2, assuming your BIOS is new enough to do USB booting at all? My main desktop only has a CD burner right now, and iTunes complains about not being able to read audio from it, so I'm trying to decide whether to buy a cheaper internal DVD burner or a slightly more expensive USB2 version, which would let me use the burner on my laptop which only has DVD-ROM capabilities. (I suppose I could add Firewire to the box as an alternative, but I don't think my BIOS has any chance of booting from that.)

DVD's have faster read speed

[Danathar]

Since DVD's are quicker than CDroms that alone will get me to use the DVD. All the other software is bonus stuff!

Yawn

[wild_berry]

I, for one, will welcome our new Control Freak Overlord, but only when your domination plans have finished compiling. :P

Re:Lang + torrent

[Hugh Lilly]

That's just what they're called - "cheat codes"
See http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Cheat_Codes

Meh, apples and oranges

[bogie]

Dam small has X, firefox, Office apps and a bunch of other useful programs making it a workable desktop, all in 50MB. For what it does it quite impressive. tomsrtbt has its place but in this day in age I'd rather not assume that A) the machine will even have a floppy and B) your floppy disk won't break when you need it.

I just can't wait until 100% on machines can boot from usb sticks. Right now only certain usb thumbdrives can be made bootable, lots of machines don't recognize Usb thumbdries as bootable etc. The day USB booting is a common as cdrom booting I'll be a happy camper.

btw anyone else find the article remarkably shallow? I know he said he only scratched the surface but still, more informatoin would have been nice.

Re:Meh, apples and oranges

[zippthorne]

X and firefox under 50 mb. Damn that is small.

Your floppy disk is less likely to fail than a cd though. One of the advantages of ferrous media i suppose.

VMware + LiveCD = nice

[gosand]

Many of you already know this, but one of the great things about linux LiveCDs is the ability to work on an otherwise screwed-up computer, and salvage it (or the data on it, etc.)....To anyone in the /. crowd that has not played with LiveCDs yet (or linux at all) you should seriously consider burning a copy and seeing what all the fuss is about.

I would agree, but it is useful for running on Windows as well. At work, my boss has mandated that I run Windows. But with VMware, I can boot up and run my favorite bootable distro (currently Damn Small). Since on some distros you can install new packages, and VMware lets you save snapshots, boot time is shorter and you can customize it. I use VMware if I want to check out the latest bootable distro but don't want to reboot my PC to do it. Creating your own bootable distro? Testing it isn't much easier than firing it up in VMware.

I think that bootable distros are one of those things that we never thought we would get so much use out of, but now that we have them they are very handy.

Using XP to get DSL on CF? HELP!

[dazedNconfuzed]

I've been looking, and seem to be missing something very small and very important.

I need (!) to get Linux (DSL is fine) onto a bootable CF card via Windows XP. I've got the DSL .iso file, can extract all files if needed, but I need to know how to use XP to make the CF card bootable. Any suggestions?

(Problem is my diskless notebook computer goes BSOD when it hits the Win2k login screen. Yes, I've tried all that. I just want to boot DSL from the PCMCIA card slot, extract what files I need, and convert the machine to Linux. No, it won't boot from any USB device, and I don't have a PCMCIA-based CD or floppy drive. My only hope is it will boot from a CF card.)

Re:Using XP to get DSL on CF? HELP!

[toddestan]

My suggestion would be to burn the DSL .iso file to a CD, then boot the Windows computer into Damn Small Linux. From there, you should be able to "install" DSL onto the CF card (check the menu options), and it will take care of making it bootable. As an advantage, you'll be able to customize it a some, like make it start the SSH server automatically.

After that, it's just a matter of convincing the laptop to boot off a CF card (good luck).

Inconceivable!

[xMilkmanDanx]

This word... I do not think it means what you think it means.

Donations?

[jlseagull]

Does anyone know a place to donate to the people that produce Knoppix? It's saved my butt quite a lot, and it's an easy way to show people what Linux can do.

Re:makes me

[alc6379]

Maybe yours just sucks-- My Optorite 8x +/- (I assume that's not a "real" name brand among name brands) takes anything thta I can throw at it. Like any product, I'm sure it's just a YMMV type of thing.

Re:makes me

[drsquare]

I think it backs up his statement 'DVD burners are hell', when only a few of them actually work, and the rest mean spending £50 on a device which don't work properly. It's criminal, knowingly selling shoddy hardware which doesn't do what it's advertised to do. But I suppose the optical disk drive industry is too powerful. Hard disk makers wouldn't get away with disks that are so bad at writing.

I have a DVD burner and it writes at 0.5 speed, even though it's supposed to do 8 speed. That means it writes more slowly that it plays. It writes CDs fine though.

And when you play DVDs, the picture is jerky rather than smooth.

idiot

[sum.zero]

notice that do(o)m is dom and doom.

"way to miss the joke, loser"

oh, to be as cool and intelligent as you...

sum.zero

Re:makes me

[Tom7]

Maybe you just have a crappy one. My $60 lite-on drive works perfectly every time.

Re: Knoppix plug

[NanoGator]

"Oh wait, I forgot. Slashdot is all about beating a dead horse."

I, for one, welcome our dead horse overlords.

In Soviet Russia, dead horse rides you!

Blah. Sometimes I think the people that write jokes around here have a dream of writing for SNL.

Re:makes me

[Gondola]

I'm sniffing a hint of troll here.

There are a lot of people out there with working DVD burners, including myself and every geek I know who has a DVD burner.

I used to have problems with my ancient CD burners, but I think that was becase of immature technology and software, as well as supercheap media.

Decent media + decent burner = lots of joy.

Okay, but..

[NieKinNL]

..does it run Li.. oh, nevermind.

Re:makes me

[alc6379]

I'm still not convinced-- I've never really seen many folks with DVD burner problems. Sure, I've seen them crap out, but only at the same rate I'd seen CDRW drives fail.

About the only way I'd agree with the statement "DVD burners are hell" would be if you applied it universally across computing-- it's all got problems: "computers are hell."

Re: Knoppix plug

[todu]

Yes, but does it have a "toram" boot parameter? Oh wait, never mind.

*offtopic*??! Sheesh!

[darkonc]

Just a minute while I go hunting for a 'funny' mod point.

(oh, BTW, gasp isn't a standard UNIX command.
You can, however start with 'look' and 'talk'. If you've got serious 'uptime' issues, then you can go to the 'wall' as well. You would thus end up with:

look; nice ; talk ; touch ; unzip; { wall || tbl ; } ; strip; finger ; head ;mount ; more ; while uptime ; do yes Yes! ; done ; unmount ; sleep; who

( 'tbl' is pronounced 'table' )

Re:makes me

[Master of Transhuman]

Folks, go to cdfreaks.com and other Web sites devoted to burning and ripping.

Read the posts.

Put "DVD problems" in Google - you get 15,500,000 hits.

CD burners work fine. DVD burners suck and the media sucks unless you buy Japanese - and then only if the media happens to work with your burner.

I have a cheap Lite-On, so I'm not out that much money, but I'm not buying that brand again. I'm not saying everything they make is bad, plenty of people use Lite-On and swear by them. I'd have no particular qualms about buying a Lite-On CD burner, I suppose.

But after reading fifty million posts about problems with DVD burners, I KNOW there is a problem with either the technology or the manufacturers.