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How to Do Everything with PHP and MySQL
The publisher has a page on their Web site devoted to the book; for some reason, it lists the book as containing 400 pages, but my copy has 381. The page also has links to a table of contents and a sample chapter, namely the first one. For those readers with very slow Internet access or unstable Adobe Acrobat plug-ins installed, be aware that the sample chapter -- and even the table of contents -- are offered only as PDFs, but the two links give no warning.
Most technical publishers, for every one of their books, wisely have links to the errata and sample code, right there on each book's Web page. This is the best approach, because when readers are having difficulty getting a book's examples to work correctly, they want to be able to quickly find and download the most up-to-date sample code, as well as check the errata page for any bugs in the printed code. Unfortunately, McGraw-Hill/Osborne has their links to those two types of information in an easily-overlooked part of a menubar, using small black text on a blue background. The links are near the upper left-hand corner, and outside the content section of the Web page, where the typical reader would be seeking fruitlessly for them.
The companion Web site for the book is hosted by Vaswani's software consulting firm, Melonfire. The site has the book's table of contents (in HTML), a link to chapter 1 in PDF, a profile of the author, three full-length case studies, a feedback form, and an extensive collection of links to PHP and MySQL reference material, discussion lists, articles, and tutorials. At the end of the Introduction in the book, the author invites the reader to use that companion site for connecting with other PHP users, and sharing their thoughts on PHP and MySQL development. The site itself has no such forum, so the author probably meant the discussion lists.
The companion site also has a link to download a Zip file containing all of the sample applications from the book -- from chapters 7, 12, and 16 -- comprising nine PHP scripts, an SQL file, and a data file. The code snippets themselves do not appear to be included in the download. This shouldn't pose a difficulty for the typical reader, since few of the code snippets are long. Besides, typing them in on one's computer can help to reinforce the language syntax that one is learning, as well as decent code formatting (valuable for newbies).
The book is organized into four parts.The first of these presents the basics of PHP and MySQL, including the history and features of both technologies, as well as how to install them on Unix and Windows systems, verify the integrity of the installations, and make some critical security and configuration changes, such as changing passwords. Parts II and III cover the basics of PHP and MySQL, respectively. The fourth and final part describes how to use the two together. To that end, every chapter contains snippets of code to illustrate the ideas being described. In addition, each section is wrapped up and illustrated with a sample application. For PHP, the author shows how to build a session-based shopping cart. For MySQL, he presents a simple order-tracking system. For using PHP and MySQL together, he shows a news-publishing system.
Despite its title, the book clearly does not tell the reader how to do everything with PHP and MySQL. As the author notes in the Introduction, the book is not designed to be a complete reference for either technology, but instead intended as a tutorial for Web developers who are interested in learning how to do server-side scripting in combination with a database management system. Vaswani states that he does not assume prior knowledge of programming or database fundamentals, and that these basic concepts will be taught by example, using tutorials and realistic examples. I suspect a reader not familiar with HTML, however, could be easily baffled by the book. On the other hand, most if not all developers reading a book on PHP or MySQL are likely to already know HTML well enough to understand the output of PHP-enhanced Web pages.
One strength that this book has over many similar ones is that the author explains up front how to install PHP and MySQL, rather than relegating these topics to an appendix, or skipping them entirely. This is critical, because many programmers will find that the most challenging aspects of getting started with PHP and MySQL, are simply getting them installed and working, along with a Web server, such as Apache -- and not coding the applications themselves.
Another welcome aspect of the book is the author's enthusiasm for the technologies -- although characterizing MySQL as "quite friendly" (page 150) is a stretch. Furthermore, his explanations are clear and concise. In addition, Vaswani makes no pretense that his book has all the answers; he frequently refers the reader to URLs in the online manuals of the products, for more details. In addition, he does a nice job of illustrating the advantages of normalized database tables, and later explaining how to format query output -- an important topic omitted in many similar books.
Yet, like all books, this one is not perfect. There are a number of errors or pitfalls in the book that could confuse the reader. They range from incomplete explanations of what a user will see when running particular commands, to the sort of errata one finds in all technical books. I found over two dozen in total (there may be more). In the interests of keeping this Slashdot version of the book review close to the recommended length, I won't list all of the problems here, but will instead refer the reader to a longer version of this book review, if they are interested in those details.
Aside from its many minor flaws, I recommend this title to any programmer who wants to learn the basics of PHP and MySQL. Even though the publisher could improve their production quality, choice of binding, and Web page, the author has done a good job of clearly presenting the major points. Future editions could incorporate fixes to the errors noted in the longer version of this review, as well as better explain to the neophyte how to test/debug the code snippets. Nonetheless, the intended reader would be well served by this particular book.
Michael J. Ross is a freelance writer, computer consultant, and the editor of PristinePlanet.com's free newsletter. You can purchase How to Do Everything with PHP and MySQL from bn.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.
This is finally the book that I need to write my php/mysql based operating system. Linux and Microsoft are dead!
Step 1: Use Emacs as your text editor.
How different is what this book covers from what this, this, this, or this?
Dont buy a book about PHP AND MySQL.
Seriously, buy one for each one of them.
Then, when you've bought those two, you can stack them under your laptop and type in:
http://www.php.net/
http://mysql.com/doc/
Ready to go!
It's called "Why Not To Do Everything with PHP and MySQL". ;-)
___
If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
The quote at the bottom of the Slashdot page says it all:
He flung himself on his horse and rode madly off in all directions.
1. No proper database connection pooling (and no, pconnect is not connection pooling).
2. Can't really run Apache2 in its threaded mode because a lot of php libraries are not thread safe (although php itself is).
Don't get me wrong, I *love* both php and mysql, but for highly-trafficked sites, jsp is definitely a better choice (from my own experience).
The Raven
Which Version of PHP does this book apply to?
Which Version of mySQL does this book apply to?
Specifically, does it cover PHP5?
excatly. and mysql is a toy as well. when they're done playing, they can move to postgres.
Which is sad, because as much as PHP sucks, J2EE solutions suck just as badly in different ways. (That's another article.)
I've been waiting for a book like this. I was really hoping to write a kernel entirely with this stuff...
why?
php won't require lots of reference, once you learn something, you won't need to look it up. but with mysql, you will want a reference.
the other reason, once someone learns php, they will probably want to move on to another language. save the $50 from the php book and use it for a Java book.
that is if people are like me and have limited money. get the most bang for the buck. there is no reason to have a book that you use once and then don't need. it is better to buy books you will keep using.
i learned MySQL while writing a forum based application using JSP. MySQL is very fast, very user friendly, and it never failed me. But it does require a good reference book, otherwise you will go mad. and if you will be using MySQL on a network, make sure to password protect it, please. ;)
Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."
Not so fast.
Java is proprietary.
"Piter, too, is dead."
The combination of the two is rapidly emerging as a favorite, partly because they work well together
Didn't PHP / MySQL emerge as a favorite about 5 years ago? Isn't the pair now a fully emerged favorite? Did I dream the year 2000 or has the author been Rip Van Winkling?
ShoutingMan.com
PHP is a full programming language. You can do basically anything in PHP that you can do in Perl, Java, .NET, Ruby, etc.
Granted, PHP lends itself to sloppier code than some other languages. Or rather, it _allows_ you to write sloppy code. But this is only a disadvantage if the developer is unskilled/undisciplined. A skilled PHP programmer can write robust, object-oriented code that follows the same design patterns as Java. It's just that certain Java frameworks force every project to be heavyweight, while PHP allows you to do a lot of things simply. If you want to write yourself a simple photo gallery app, why bother with Struts?
I write this as an ex- (not current) PHP programmer. I recently made the switch to Ruby on Rails, which has proved to be fantastic thus far.
Never trust anyone who says "Language X is terrible and Language Y is great."
The Visual Basic and Access of the next generation...
The last I knew, PHP had variables, conditionals, loops, and functions. Perl has these, too, as do Python, Lisp, Bash, and even PostScript. Their Turing completeness has nothing to do with their execution environments.
...MySQL! There are a few of us who hang around /. who know databases (a very few), and we've always got to chime in whenever MySQL is mentioned.
Oh yeah...
MySQL sucks. Not a real RDBMS. Very limited. Not ACID compliant. blah, blah, blah.
I don't respond to AC's.
Seems like the only explanation for this myriad of redundant books on such a simple topic. Really, how can there be a market that can accomodate another one of these identical books every month?
sic transit gloria mundi
I, for one, am dedicated to PHP & MySQL but lately I"ve been experimenting with Coldfusion. Now I realize that Coldfusion is no open-source but in the past months, it has been a very good friend to me unlike PHP. CFM gave me the quick and easy commands to perform what I do on a daily basis or easy intergration ongoing projects.
In all, PHP & MySQL are by far the best there is, but i still have to explore other regions. Hence, I do not look forward anytime nor in the future to ASP.Net. I like to stay away from the proprietary enforcements and give my small snippets a chance when I need them on open-source applications!
The problem with these PHP run forums was not that they were written in PHP, but with the forums themselves. Blaming the language for the problems is like blaming the English language for mangling George W. Bush's speech, while the fact is that the English language is merely what he is speaking. Granted, there were security issues with PHP that didn't help much, but it isn't entirely the fault of the language.
Also, you must not have explored PHP much if you don't think any large applications exist.
Despite its title, the book clearly does not tell the reader how to do everything with PHP and MySQL.
... This is critical, because many programmers will find that the most challenging aspects of getting started with PHP and MySQL, are simply getting them installed and working
/sigh/ Practically every beginner PHP/MySQL book I've looked at describes installation in some depth. Quite often too much depth for my taste.
Darn marketing double-speak, gets you every time!
One strength that this book has over many similar ones is that the author explains up front how to install PHP and MySQL
"How to Do Everything? with PHP and MySQL"?
I hate how people abuses of PHP. PHP is nice when you really need what things like PHP/ASP/etc provide, but these days some people use it for everything. I hate it. Take a look at blogs - they're not really "dynamic content", they're just static content which changes very frequently, still everybody uses PHP to implement them.
Java is only the better language to learn if you work on large projects with a team of programmers. For 1-3 programmers on a mid-sized project, I'd take PHP over Java any day.
And what's this business about scripting languages not being true languages?
you're absolutely wrong. mysql is dual-licensed, with one of those two being the GPL. the GPL is not only for non-commercial. seriously, read up before throwing stones.
Sorry, but you really have not got a clue. MySQL is GPL.
I can't stress strongly enough that people NOT buy a MySQL book. Buy a SQL book. Even better, buy a RDBMS book. We have enough people doing stupid things with data. We don't need any more. You might as well suggest that somebody buy a Windows 95 book.
I don't respond to AC's.
"@" suppresses error messages.
PHP websites are more vulnerable to worms. Just six months ago, many PHP run forums were shut down and destroyed. The exploit was something that worked only with PHP forums.
So it was a shortcoming endemic to the langauge, and not sloppy coding, right? I mean to say, PHP itself was at fault, due its very nature? A similar thing can't possibly happen in a "real" programming language like Java?
Java is the better language to learn. It is more like a true programming language than PHP. The reward for the time spent learning a language is greater with Java than with PHP.
That's begging the question. And wooly-headed thinking at its best. I'd argue that the barrier to entry is a lot lower with PHP than Java (or C, C++, .Net, et al.). So someone new to the language is bound to see results faster. But your point is nonsensical to begin with...
I always thought of PHP as more of a scripting langugae, and not a true language. No large PHP applications exists out there. But there are tons of enterprise Java applications.
A scripting language is a "true language". BASIC is a true programming langauge. MSDOS batch is a true programming langauge. Further, have you ever heard the saying "use the right tool for the job"? There are a lot of types of websites filling a lot of roles. Many (most?) of them don't need the overhead and complexity of an enterprise-class system. Use what works, without specious limitations brought on by technical snobbery.
-B
Ash and Hickory, straight-grained and true, make excellent bludgeons, dandy for the cudgeling of vegetarians.
PHP websites are more vulnerable to worms. Just six months ago, many PHP run forums were shut down and destroyed. The exploit was something that worked only with PHP forums.
I don't think PHP sites are inherently more vulnerable because they use PHP. I think it's because PHP coders are more likely to be amateurs, and PHP projects more likely to be developed by new coders, that they'd have holes. It's not a failure of PHP IMHO. It just happens that more bad coders use PHP.
If this is the worm I am thinking about, it was specific to one particular forum, which is quite popular and written in PHP. The exploit was a vulnerability in the source, not PHP itself. Is all JSP code automatically uber-secure?
And if the 'reward' of programming with a 'real' programming language is that much better, write your web-apps in C, or
This rating is Unfair ( ) ( ) Fair (*) Funny
Sigh... If only. Modding would be so much more fun.
But can you build a /. from PHP and mySQL? A lot of books will show you the bits and pieces that make up a comprehensive website but usually don't show you how to put the whole thing together.
can someone please mod this idiot down? htf does he have a "score 3 informative" when he doesnt even know that mysql is available under the GPL?
The companion Web site for the book is hosted by Vaswani's software consulting firm, Melonfire.
Do I really want to read a book by someone who works for a consulting firm named after the ignition of fruit?MySQL is dual-licensed; it is available for free download, and if you wish you may distribute it under the terms of the GPL. A commercial license can also be bought, and I think that includes things like support and possibly the ability to distribute under different terms. I don't remember exactly...
But... but... but... I want a language that does everything! Thus I will finally prove Godel wrong once and for all!
Besides Slashdotters Gross Conceptual Errors in programming language theory, I already have my desk references, and they are written by insane, whimsical men known as Knuth and Corman. Sometimes they require use of a secret decoder ring found in select Cracker Jack boxes to figure out, but are entirely more useful than something that could be grokked online.
"Thank you. Please spellcheck your genitalia references though.
/me ducks the tomatoes. :-)
Kosh: "Understanding is a 3 edged sword, your side, their side, the Truth."
How about you learn the language before you speak out of what google news and fellow slashdotters tell you?
Saying that there was a worm that only affected PHP forums is only a half-truth, at best. It only affected a single PHP based forum, not every PHP forum made in existance. The flaw there was a hole in the software, NOT a hole in PHP. Have there been holes in PHP? Of course, there's hole in everything else, too. The exploit was not in PHP, it was in some software that's coded in PHP. Using your thinking, that's like saying C is a horrible language because if you don't know what you're doing, there's a chance of a buffer overflow.
From "A Note on Security in PHP":
" A recent Web Worm known as NeverEverSanity exposed a mistake in the input validation in the popular phpBB message board application. Their highlighting code didn't account for double-urlencoded input correctly. Without proper input validation of untrusted user data combined with any of the PHP calls that can execute code or write to the filesystem you create a potential security problem. Despite some confusion regarding the timing of some unrelated PHP security fixes and the NeverEverSanity worm, the worm didn't actually have anything to do with a security problem in PHP."
The phpbb developers are not stupid, they are competent people. Yet, there was a hole. It happens, no one is perfect.
I'm quite certain that JSP/Tomcat can be just as insecure if you code it wrong. Same with ASP. Or, gasp, anything.
It's only free if you release your web app as GPL also.
I patented screwing your mom. But it got revoked for "prior art."
It's only free if you release your web app as GPL also.
Not very free IMHO.
I patented screwing your mom. But it got revoked for "prior art."
You can do basically anything in PHP that you can do in Perl, Java, .NET, Ruby, etc.
-->Um, wrong. So very, very wrong.
The performance of Java and the functionality of MySQL. There's a match made in hell for ya.
Seriously, do their problem domains overlap at all? Big servers with plenty of resources: Java + an ACID database. Small servers that want to be responsive at the expense of all else (like complex functionality and data integrity): PHP + MySQL. I can't imagine harnessing DB2 to PHP, and the inverse doesn't seem a whole lot more sane.
I know someone's going to pipe up and announce that they've been using PHP and an Oracle to drive their website for years, but it still just feels wrong.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
... then every problem tends to look like a nail.
- Hubert
gimme a break. that's the difference between GPL and LGPL. that's like saying bsd is MORE free than GPL.
That being said, it is a toy database, and as such, should not be used on serious projects (i.e., anything that uses normalized data schemas and requires data integrity).
Yeah, right.
By posting a comment on this article, I can troll two products at once! I'm a PostegreSQL snob and a Java snob!
Of course, this book is just indicative of one of the key features of the Open Source movement: the ability to take two bad software packages and combine them to form something truely horrific.
(I wasn't using that Karma anyway.)
Start Running Better Polls
I'm well aware that it is dual licensed, however it's not like you can just choose whichever license you want. From their license found on:
e rcial-license.html
http://www.mysql.com/company/legal/licensing/comm
The Commercial License is an agreement with MySQL AB for organizations that do not want to release their application source code. Commercially licensed customers get a commercially supported product with assurances from MySQL. Commercially licensed users are also free from the requirement of making their own application open source.
When your application is not licensed under either the GPL-compatible Free Software License as defined by the Free Software Foundation or approved by OSI, and you intend to or you may distribute MySQL software, you must first obtain a commercial license to the MySQL product.
A skilled PHP programmer can write robust, object-oriented code that follows the same design patterns as Java.
This isn't quite true. A good example is that many very-high load Java websites use application-scoped caching of data. This is very hard to do elegantly in PHP.
Java was designed to be object-oriented from the start. With PHP, it was an afterthought.
It's just that certain Java frameworks force every project to be heavyweight, while PHP allows you to do a lot of things simply. If you want to write yourself a simple photo gallery app, why bother with Struts?
Java also allows you to do a lot of things simply. There is nothing forcing you to use those Java frameworks. You can write everything in scripted JSP pages.
Great reply.
And this captures it in a nutshell. Ease of use (even sloppy use), documented examples, price, and saturation is 9/10's of the battle...And PHP has claimed all of those crowns.
(+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
So... Let's see some examples.
I must be some kind of retard, I build my stuff with Perl and PostgreSQL.
"I have never won a debate with an ignorant person." -Ali ibn Abi Talib
If anyone can point me to a good *free* PHP editor for Linux, I'd be very glad. The editors for Linux I find here http://www.php-editors.com/review/, are not good enough. I want one I can get for free.
again, WRONG. you need a license to DISTRIBUTE mysql with your non-gpl'd app.
I would very much like to. But my fingers won't spread far enough to hit all the keys.
to DISTRIBUTE mysql, not to use mysql.
and it ONLY matters if you distribute mysql, not if your app uses it.
BSD is more free than GPL.
There is not one thing that you can do under the GPL that you are not allowed to do under the BSD license, and there is quite a bit more you can do under BSD.
That is pretty much the definition of "more free" under any definition of "free" that applies to this disucssion (e.g. is not the same as "gratis").
Now, the questions of whether the BSD license or GPL leads to more software freedom and which license promotes free software better are up for some debate. The GPL makes sure the software STAYS free, and as such, there are very good arguments that the GPL better promotes free software, the OSS movement is better off than if everything was released BSD, etc. But this is a different matter than which license is more free. If the promotion idea is what you are thinking when you say the GPL is more free, I put to you that you need to be less sloppy with your language and say what you mean, not what sounds good.
You're right about the caching. I have no doubt that Java is a better language than PHP for the largest 1% of web apps.
:)
And if you want spaghetti code, both PHP and JSP are happy to help.
This doesn't mean (contra the AC above) that PHP is a toy language.
is only light relative to even heavier Java solutions. :-|
...)
Invariably people who sing the JSP praises have no significant experience with a real lightweight toolkit (Spyce, CherryPy, RoR,
But that's okay, because doing things the hard way builds testosterone.
Ah yes, spoken like an anonymous coward. I've used Oracle, postgres, and mysql, and interestingly, mysql seems to be the right tool for the job most of the time, in the projects I've been involved with.
;)
There are certainly places where oracle is the right tool for the job, but I can't think of any case where postgres would be the best choice, mysql-bashing, anonymous coward postgres bigots notwithstanding
Hey, I bought this glass house so I could throw any stones I want!
Dammit, I'm going to get my money worth!
Pretty Pictures!
If anyone can point me to a good *free* PHP editor for Linux, I'd be very glad.
Kate
Has syntax highlighting (including recoginizing builtin functions), bracket matching, code folding, regex search and replace, blah blah.
If you want one that does fancier stuff like show you class structures etc, then I dunno. Eclipse has a PHP plugin I heard - dunno how it works. One of my friends is huge into zend studio (non-free), but he works at a university (where they think nothing of spending a students tuititions worth on a computer - what do you mean our programmers don't need 23" apple cinema displays?)
Speak before you think
I\'ve just read this book, and it\'s great! I\'m going to use PHP and MySQL for all of my web-based apps now!
I didn't think so... so alone... so alone...
A guy walks into a bar... well, I forgot the joke, but the punchline is that he's an alcoholic.
I love the commercial support that can come with PostgreSQL, if I wanted to buy it. Oh wait, it doesn't come with commercial support, only MySQL does. Gotta keep the two seperated y'know? ;-)
I also love the fact that you need to download half a million tarballs just to run PostgreSQL. Makes for a nice and easy setup if I ever saw one.
Reality is for those who can't face Science Fiction.
Bingo. No language can make up for bad coding. PHP happens to be a) ubiquitous, b) easy to get started with, leading to c) lots of crap code. PHP can be criticized for a lot of things, but the ability of those that use it isn't one of them. (Although maybe we can lay a bit of blame at the feet of publishers that won't put out a book that talks about applying good programming practices to PHP? We have more "Dick and Jane Learn PHP" books than we know what to do with already.)
This is the voice of World Control. I bring you Peace.
In fact, look at the zend website even, they give horrible examples that nobody should ever follow. Gee, I wonder why so many PHP programmers end up writing crappy code.
Also, the PHP developers have proven over and over again that they do not care AT ALL about security. As an ex-PHP programmer myself, I have to agree with the "dear god use anything but PHP" people.
Look at the examples given in the companion web site. There is code like the following, which is highly vulnerable to SQL injection attacks:
Validate? Just by removing trailing spaces? People trusting this book's advice will be very sorry soon.
One more example:
No validation at all! User input thrown into the database without any check!
It's unbelievable that in 2005, after all the outrage and cry about SQL injection ther is still a new book proposing such horrible code!
As far as I know you can't do the same thing in PHP and if you can probably not as easily. The only way I can think of is to write it as a C/C++ module that you call from PHP but most people wouldn't consider doing that in PHP.
Open Source Java DAO Generator
babes - but somehow PHP and MySQL just wasn't working out there.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Yahoo employ Rasmus Lerdorf. He is the author of PHP. They use a lot of front end servers. See here for an architecture discussion.
Slashdot: Where nerds gather to pool their ignorance
Seriously, do their problem domains overlap at all? Big servers with plenty of resources: Java + an ACID database.
um..
mysql IS an ACID-compliant database...
Wake up, Rip Van Winkle, 1998 is SO over.
Have a look at how mustang is being developed and how the JCP works. Java is about as open as you can get without being osi approved. Also, the world existed just fine before open/free software came about. Many corporations/people out there still depend on proprietary software to keep their business going because there isn't a free/open equivalent to everything out there.
Open/Free software is good but trying to label java as "proprietary" and pretending it's a bad word is a weak argument. Try reading this.
Open Source Java DAO Generator
I mean, I know that apache2 support is only available in CVS, but other than that, how's it compare to php?
I just wrote a bunch of php with PEAR DB and compared to perl it felt.. unclean.. hashes and regexes are unpleasant compared to perl, and I couldn't subclass DB cleanly since it has no constructor..
Granted, I could get stuff done pretty quickly because php is perl-like, but there's enough stuff that seems arbitrarily different from perl to make the experience sorta yucky.
Use the best tool for the job.
</obCopout>
OK, now that's out of the way, I'll say this:
I've done sites in PHP (Makeuptracker), Java Servlets + JSP (Prayer Supply), and other technologies, and based on what you've said so far, there's no compelling reason to not use PHP if that's what you want.
On the other hand, there's no real reason to not use JSP, servlets, or any of a half-dozen other environments, either. The reality is that your site is unlikely to be overly sensitive to environment and that any half-decently-coded implementation in any tech is likely to work at least acceptably.
Thus you have a problem where the solutions aren't really distinguishing themselves a great deal. So come up with some more metrics--is technology X something you really want to learn? Do you want to be able to use a cheaper hosting service (PHP is common on cheap hosts, app servers not so much)? These sorts of questions are the ones you should probably be asking...
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana." --Groucho Marx
Execute a function when a variable is accessed, like Perl's tie.
I'd be really happy to proven wrong on this. I'd love to have that bit of functionality.
I use PHP a lot, but I find it beginner-focused enough to be really frustrating sometimes.
This is the voice of World Control. I bring you Peace.
Just because you are reviewing a technical manual doesn't mean the review needs to read like one.
This post is incorrect, or at least entirely misleading.
it doesn't come with commercial support
There are numerous companies that will help you, depending on what country you live in. Try Command Prompt, Inc in the U.S. (among others).
download half a million tarballs
Do you download the kernel source, the source for gnome, kde, gcc, glibc, bash, OO.o? Then why do you need to download the source for PostgreSQL?
I usually do "apt-get install postgresql" for production.
On a development box when testing out a new version I'll download the PostgreSQL source, and that involves one download, and a compile time of a couple minutes on my box.
Really, what more can you ask for from PostgreSQL? Serious question. If compiling source is too hard, download a binary like you do for 90% of everything else.
Social scientists are inspired by theories; scientists are humbled by facts.
% cat > coolpage.php
<html><? cool php script ?></body></html>
^d
%
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
The exploit was not in PHP, it was in some software that's coded in PHP. Using your thinking, that's like saying C is a horrible language because if you don't know what you're doing, there's a chance of a buffer overflow.
People criticize C all the time for not protecting from buffer overflows. There are libraries dedicated to wrapping string handling in a way that doesn't allow buffer overflows.
You could apply the same criticism to PHP for allowing SQL injection attacks. PHP lets you input any old SQL, without prepared statements.
There's some good in having a language that protects you from yourself. I don't think protection always needs to be in the language core, but it can be a good thing.
The combination of the two is rapidly emerging as a favorite, partly because they work well together, and partly because they are both available under open-source licenses.
These are valid reasons for their being popular, but the reviewer left out another very important reason: both of them are really easy to learn. Whatever their shortcommings, someone with only moderate technical inclanation or experience can learn enough PHP and MySQL to have a fairly powerful site up and running in a very short amount of time.
KTHXBYE
You're right about the caching. I have no doubt that Java is a better language than PHP for the largest 1% of web apps.
:)
On the contrary. If you are setting up any website that has even moderate demands on a database (particularly if that demand involves things that have to be transactionally safe), and you will want to reduce load on that database. This is where cacheing helps.
Perhaps a better statement that yours is that for a lot of websites, PHP is fine 99% (or even 99.99%) of the time. The problem is when you get that occasional heavy load on the website.
And if you want spaghetti code, both PHP and JSP are happy to help.
This doesn't mean (contra the AC above) that PHP is a toy language.
It certainly isn't. However, that does not mean it is suitable for all websites, or even 99% of them. It is fantastic for lots of uses, though.
"I'm quite certain that JSP/Tomcat can be just as insecure if you code it wrong. Same with ASP. Or, gasp, anything."
Depends how you look at it. In JSP/Tomcat you don't have to worry about encoding/decoding input except in special cases. The appserver does it for you so you don't have to worry about these types of attacks. Languages like Java, C# and Managed C have some built in safty nets to prevent things like buffer overflows as well. SQL Injection attacks can be a problem if you're not using PreparedStatement but good coding practices shouldn't let the user have that much access to the sql statement to begin with in most cases.
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The great thing about php and mysql is that its very simple. If you already know SQL commands, and C#, then you can probably code 90% of what you need to do already. PHP accepts very generic commands that are common among a lot of languages, so there isnt much to learn. I don't know offhand how well it can scale into the really big league stuff, my php/mysql site got one million hits this month, and it handled that just fine.
I can't seem to find the command `apt-get' in either Slackware 10 or WinXP. Oh wait, you are one of those dirty debian lusers that think software should be free as in beer. Get a job, life, etc. ;-)
Reality is for those who can't face Science Fiction.
It's only free if you release your web app as GPL also.
g TheGPLForAProgramMakeItGNUSoftware
Not very free IMHO.
I think mysql license info about the GPL is incorrect.
GPL mentions modified versions, if you use mysql as a basic sql engine, and not modify its sourcecode, its still GPL compliant.
The GPL FAQ mentions using a GPL program for non-free software.
So, Just as you can use VI to write non-free code, you can use SQL for a non-free database. You havn't modified MYSQL sourcecode, you are using it as its intended purpose.
The GPL also says if you fork or exec a plugin you dont need to release your source, seems the same as a select or put. Now your interface plugin to the MySQL database would have to be GPL'ed by default.
I dont know how MySQL team could say using the product voids GPL, its sourcecode modification not use that voids GPL.
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#DoesUsin
Can you overload methods or operators to provide custom extended functionality?
Can you inspect a namespace by easily printing out all members and values of a namespace at any point - great debug facility?
Does php have a safe eval mode?
This os course, ignores the fact that C is a horrible language. If you don't know what you're doing, there's a chance of a buffer overflow.
Yeah, because there is absolutely NO WAY to write sloppy/bad code in C, or Perl, or Java, or ...
You might want to rethink what you just said.
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
Speaking of Graham, read http://www.paulgraham.com/pypar.html.
Python is a lot more open than Java, and by Paul Graham, a better language.
Anyway, don't mean to start a flame. I read Graham too.
"Piter, too, is dead."
Yah you can do this, you just put the write/dupe checking code in a seperate file then you have php fork a the new script in the background and direct stdout and stderr somewhere else like /dev/null. This will return and proceed to the next line of code without having to wait for your write/dupe check code to finish.
Example:
$php_path = '/usr/local/bin/php';
$external_ps = '/path/to/write_dupe_check.php';
$output = '/dev/null';
system("$php_path $external_ps > $output &");
print('Done!');
exit;
Screw that, go use .NET then.
PHP is good because PHP is fucking easy, if you can't do a button without some kind of .NET control holding your hand for you, then don't use PHP. Its not like making a button is hard you know.
Multithreading? Distributable compiled controls? OOP?
Discussions concerning what scripting / pooling / serverlet system to use has nothing to do with open source outside of the normal OSS advocacy.
No one is in a position to tell you that you *should* learn PHP. The only people that care one way or the other what you do will be advocates/zealots of one flavour or another.
Presuming you are a competent programmer you should learn the fundementals PHP in an hour or so, just read the docs. You could probably have written your first script in the time it took me to write this.
That's what makes these books so laughable.
*and* they usually teach you to write difficult to maintain / poorly scaling code.
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
google uses PHP and MySQL as well.
.NET are better (for small-2-enterprise-level web applications), are simply brainwashed by market-share data and proprietary software marketing tactics.
People who tell you Java or
the only permanence in existence, is the impermanence of existence.
Similar but not quite the same. Forking is slower and more resource intensive than creating a new thread. If you're running on the 2.6 linux kernel starting a thread is about twice as fast and forking.
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And here, folks, you have a PHP developer demonstrating a fundamental misunderstanding of multithreaded applications. You replicate with mySQL? Why? Because the data integrity wasn't bad enough for you, so you figured you'd try to spice it up a bit?
Acme in 9ports for Linux
though, naturally, I use the original plan9 version
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
If it's normalized and designed correctly, YOU DON'T NEED VIEWS or constraints.
Unless you want to do database development in the real world, with real users who might try and shove anything into your database.
Well, gee, because EVERYTHING has to be some high-end, million-hit per day, dynamic website, right?
Come on. PHP and MySQL have their place. Why do people have to rag on it just because there are higher-end (an sometimes unnecessary) solutions available?
Because there are alternatives that are just as easy to use, but can cope (or be adapted to cope) when your website unexpectedly hits that extra load.
It is easier! It's 5 letters shorter, don't you see? ;)
Doubly linked lists are impossible to implement due to namespace problems and issues about how PHP's aliases are neither ferences nor pointers.
So now there are constraints in the database to match the validation in the Rails apps.
Exactly! One of the main criticisms often thrown at Object-Relational Mapping (as used in Rails and other APIs) is that it implies that the only way the database should be accessed is via the ORM software, not directly. Of course, this isn't true if you add the right constraints.
I use a Java equivalent to Rails - JDO - and the implementation I use has a tool that automatically adds constraints to the database to ensure that the correct relationships between objects is maintained even if other users access the data directly. I have seen major projects get into trouble because the developers assumed that constraints in their software was enough.
This reminds me of a story I heard once about people using the blitter on the Amiga for some kind of number crunching task. Apparently it was much faster to use the blitter than to use the CPU! :)
[Because there are alternatives that are just as easy to use, but can cope (or be adapted to cope) when your website unexpectedly hits that extra load.]
Like?
JSP or Coldfusion, for example. Technologies that allow easy and fast scripting yet allow decent management of connection pools and cacheing.
Yes. Basically.
"Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
This was a database bottleneck, not an application bottleneck that I was able to overcome by making some modifications to the application.
This application has a lot of writes. An application with a lot of writes doesn't perform that well with MyISAM tables than a mostly read only application and it doesn't handle the type of transaction support other parts need. InnoDB is probably better better because it has row level locking but it's slower overall than MyISAM tables. I haven't benchmarked PostgreSQL vs InnoDB but I've seen other results and PostgreSQL is faster at writing than InnoDB. MyISAM uses table level locking so if you have writes and selects at the same time on the same table you're going to slow down. By implementing the verification logic as triggers the development was a lot cleaner and faster. Don't think you can do this with MySQL or transactions or stored procedures. MySQL is nice but when your application starts to have as many inserts/updates as it does selects you're going to see where the simple locking mechanism slows you down. Then multiply that by 10 for each replicated server.
Don't know where you get your 35-40 second number from but under simulated heavy load response the response times for both were in the millisecond range. My own tests show I can get better performance from Tomcat 5.5 vs apache/php without having to play any tricks.
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google uses PHP and MySQL as well.
... What do they use PHP and MySQL for?
Just curious
Google is a pretty big entity these days. I'd be surprised if they didn't use most well-known technologies, but I'm interested in their PHP and MySQL uses.
You whiney people always complaining about the simple stuff out there.
coding! real some do and standards about complaining stop you don't WhyCODING ISNT ABOUT STYLE ITS ABOUT GETTING YOUR THING WORKING AND IT DOESNT MATTER HOW YOU DO IT.
Cómo_es_bonito ustedEscribeNoImporta.
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I previously posted a comment wondering if this is so.
XML UI Browser/Platform
yes, since you have managed large numbers of religious and patriotic people, we should hear what you have to say about it? let me guess: you can do anything with john dewey's help, that you could otherwise do with moses, jesus, or mohammed.
"but money is the God of Algiers & Mahomet their prophet." - Rich. O'Bryen June 8th 1786
Uh-huh.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
PHP lends itself to sloppier code than some other languages. Or rather, it _allows_ you to write sloppy code. But this is only a disadvantage if the developer is unskilled/undisciplined.
I have no idea how to program, but you're probably right. Making (note my leet description here) stuff easy to do often opens up all kinds of holes for evildoers if the previously-mentioned stuff is open to the world at large, i.e., the internet.
Really:
Advanced PHP Programming by George Schlosshnagle
Google for it.
grammar-lesson free since 1999. (rescinded - 2005)
I tried to copulate with my G/f using php and mysql. It failed miserably. :-( ... *CRASH!!!*
use girfriend;
show rack;
select * from rack;
insert into
"I used to have that really cool,funny sig
One strength that this book has over many similar ones is that the author explains up front how to install PHP and MySQL, rather than relegating these topics to an appendix, or skipping them entirely
.....but I guess I'm assuming a few things here...... =)
Setup Instructions:
1. Use an Apple Computer
2. Download Aaron Faby's packages (and tip him a few bucks)
3. Install (i.e. click 'continue' until the screens go away)
Simple!
is not difficult
.
-shpoffo
Amen!!! And I'm sure an advocate of the more than one way to do it tribe will disagree...
There were all kinds of hacks using the BitBlitter on the Amiga, especially for logical operations which it could do with aplomb. Not that anyone would be interested, but I believe I still have a bunch of them here stored on CD (from my CompuServer librarian days).
"[I]t is a wise man who admits the limits of his knowledge or skill, and that pretending either causes harm." --Terry Go
You mean when you are Slashdotted? *g,d,rvvvf!*
"[I]t is a wise man who admits the limits of his knowledge or skill, and that pretending either causes harm." --Terry Go
To quote Microsloth, "get the facts" before you start whining about something that is so history it ain't even funny.
Oh yes, about the other whines on that page, MySQL 5 seems to address most all of them. As I said elsewhere, I'm waiting to see the gold version before I review it, but it is looking promising.
"[I]t is a wise man who admits the limits of his knowledge or skill, and that pretending either causes harm." --Terry Go
No, that's not true. If you distribute your web app without MySQL, then you don't have to GPL it because you are not distributing MySQL.
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
% firefox /dev/tty
<html><? cool php script ?></html>
^d
Guy asked me for a quarter for a cup of coffee. So I bit him.
Thank you....just checking out hudzilla now, and it looks like a good resource. I can deal with not having flippy pages if I've got good data ;)
I've spent a fair bit of time at PHPpatterns (I think that's phppatterns.com, if anyone else is reading.) Too bad it doesn't seem to be seeing updates lately. I owe that man a beer.
This is the voice of World Control. I bring you Peace.
Sure thing, boss, that's coming up.
A real database won't let you insert a value that is too long for the field. A toy database will truncate. Example:
On the last line, MySQL says,
but PostgreSQL* says
Let's run a query and see what we got from MySQL, shall we?
Wrong, wrong, wrong! There is NO data integrity in accepting data and then truncating it. This is why TOY databases have no place in production environments.
Okay, not good enough, right? There's lots more. Let's try referential integrity.
MySQL says
PostgreSQL says
In other words, in TOY databases, "referential integrity" means about as much as a pinch of bat-guano. In real databases, preventing damage to the data is actually important.
* I'm using PostgreSQL here because that's what I have running on my laptop. The same things apply to other real databases, such as Oracle, MS-SQL, etc.
Yeah, right.
I'm using it now and unless I was absolutely forced to, I would never go back to scripting languages like PHP. I don't think I should need to manually write out tags in output strings. I've got better things to do with my time.
I agree there. The feature list of what something Oracle has from Database Design/Development(PL/SQL/Java/C++ modules) to scalability ( Real Application Cluster, anyone? ) compared with MySQL makes the database selection for a high availability system a no-brainer.
I can't afford a sig!