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German Youth Convicted for Sasser Worm
dan dan the dna man writes "The BBC is reporting that Sven Jaschan, author of the Sasser Worm, has been found guilty of computer sabotage and illegally altering data. He received a 21 month suspended sentence, as he was tried as a minor. He was 17 years old when he wrote the worm." From the article: "Sven Jaschan avoided a jail sentence by the skin of his teeth because he was arrested within days of his 18th birthday...However, in the grand scheme of the virus world, it's the organised crime gangs, which are increasingly emerging to make stacks of money through targeted attacks, that should be dealt the harsh sentences - over and above the dumb teenagers."
Don't lock him up, don't curtail his computer usage.
Just force him to use AOL for the next 5 years.
Being a dumb teenager is one thing. Causing world disruption is something else entirely (Yes. I know. The victims bear some responsibility)
People take the computer too lightly, like it was a TV set or something. It's more like a small nuclear bomb in each home, great for powering the house, but not so much something you want the kids mucking around with unsupervised. If you are one of those who think gun control stops gun crime, wait 20 years or so until people start advocating "computer control" to stop cyber crime. You'll have a blast with that one.
WTF? How About CSS Implementation?
Pretty sure they meant "once Jaschan has been convicted..."
I wanted to buy a candle holder, but the store didn't have one. So I got a cake.
The virus was released ON his 18th birthday (April 29, 2004). He was tried as a minor because the german courts determined that he created the virus before he was 18. He wasn't arrested days before his 18th birthday as the parent says.
Ok, so he causes untold millions in damages (yes, real damages) worldwide, get a 21 month probation slap on the wrist, which clears off his record after 3 years if he keeps his nose clean. AND he gets a job in the antivirus industry. Sounds more like a reward than a punishment. If I ran a multinational company that was hit bad by this, I'd be in civil court suing the hell out of him right now. He deserves to be in jail, not reaping rewards for his behavior.
It wasnt even this close, because in Germany the youth criminal law is applicable to persons up to the age of 21, depending on how "adult" they behave and live. E.g. Living in your own apartement and having a job will probably get you treated as an adult. For his case the social projections are quite good, because he now lives a stable life with a regular job and a girlfriend.
IAAL
Create a Worm, cripple thousands of businesses, get convicted, no monitary fine, get a 2 year Jail sentence and 30 Hours of Community service, do not pass go. Do not collect $200.
Steal a Movie, get fined Thousands of dollars, go to Jail for dozens of years, never expect to use a computer or have any rights or freedoms again.
Amazing.
0110100100100000011000010110110100100000011000100
But he was a child when he committed the offense...and he was a child when he was arrested...doesn't matter how old he is now.
____
~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
The fact that he's over 18 now should be irrelevant - he was a minor when the crime was commited, he should be tried as a minor.
I guess he wasn't able to worm his way out of this one.
'Yes, firefox is indeed greater than women. Can women block pops up for you? No. Can Firefox show you naked women? Yes.'
They all start somewhere. I think in this case his intent was malicious, more than a slap on the wrist is merited I mean the clean message sent to all those kiddies is now as long as you are under 18 you are free from jail time. I didn't RTFA (too lazy and I'm not interested) I wonder if he even got community service? I think his punishment should fit the crime, but then again I wouldn't want this kid anywhere near my systems unsupervised. So what would a suitable punishment be, not only is it for his crime, but also as a detterent to others.
I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
While I will agree that there is some evidence to suggest that these gangs exist, there is as yet no proof that would stand up in a court. Can anyone offer proof that there are gangs of organized crime worm writers? Can anyone prove that it isn't still just kids but, they are more organized because of chat rooms?
However, in the grand scheme of the virus world, it's the organised crime gangs, which are increasingly emerging to make stacks of money through targeted attacks, that should be dealt the harsh sentences - over and above the dumb teenagers.
Hold on a sec, there. That smacks of logic. And we all know that isn't allowed when the accused is a hacker. You know, the guys that cause kazillions of dollars of damage by fiddling with your email. Somehow.
Keep that line of reasoning up, and pretty soon the entertainment industry will stop suing grandmothers for thousands of dollars worth of lost revenue. You know, 'cause granny is such a huge Linkin Park fan.
Ok, sarcasm mode off.
Honestly, even though this kid is a jerk and what he did was wrong I'm happy the courts decided not to crucify him. He's not a part of organized crime, nor is he selling G3N3R!C V!aGrA.
It's a good trend to see crime and punishment in the tech sector finally starting to get in sync.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
I must be missing something... I click on a link about the sasser worm creator and I get a dating story and an advert for a rival website? "i'm not sure exactly what i'm doing here" You got that right.
all i can say is that the kid was damn lucky. if you're going to write a worm, at least don't get caught. the problem with people writing viruses is that it will come back to them. it may take some time, but it will be traced, the source will be found. now he has this on his record, and emplyment, especially in the tech field, is now going to be extremly difficult. teenagers writing up worms and viruses need to realize that though it does take skill, there are consequences. "with great power comes great responsibility"
I think that as he is now over 18, he shouldn't be tried as if he's a child.
People do all sorts of dumb things when they're
Trolling is a art,
I think I speech for the Slashdot community when I say that I am going to miss these interesting programs. With Jaschan being convicted, and Claria being bought out by Microsoft, how am I going to have an excuse to go out to an extended lunch, or take the rest of the day off? My company only gives me one hour to eat lunch, which is not nearly enough to go to Wal-Mart and get my four litres of Mountain Dew, my two coffees at Dunkin' Donuts, with my two dozen donuts, and then make my way over to Burger King. I hope someone replaces Jaschan soon in the name of giving me extended lunches and days off to code. Does anyone else feel this way?
Powered by caffeine and sugar; BSD
Thank you, astroturfman! If it weren't for you, we'd have to rely on real grass!
SIGSEGV caught, terminating
wait... not that kind of sig.
Most "leet hackers" under 18 couldn't hack their way out of a wet paper bag. If they start young enough to have a good level of programming ability by 17, then they've generally matured enough to handle that responsibility by then. This guy is the exception, not the rule.
What about Microsoft?
Shouldn't they face some consequence for writing such shitty code as the security nightmare that is Windows?
It's kind of funny really. In almost any company if a single coder could be found responsible for coding mistakes that cost the company millions of dollars, he would be fired and quite possibly sued. But when thousands of coders in a company collectively do the same thing, they get off without any responsibility for the effects of unleashing their horribly buggy code on the entire world.
[retarded /. truncated at my 'less than' sign]
People do all sorts of dumb things when they're [less than] 18. It's unwise to run him in an adult court because of scheduling and birthday issues. (yeah, adults do stupid things, too but as a minor it's though that they don't know better)
Trolling is a art,
Heard the same joke on the previous story about it.
What kind of punishment would he have gotten if he had been convicted of shoplifting on several occasions? He wrote several worms, each causing some degree of economic damage, and he should have known after the first one got press coverage that it shouldn't be done.
What if he did damage to someone's car so they couldn't use it (like slashing the tires)? What would the penalty be then?
I see it as he got off too lightly. Just because someone is 17, doesn't mean they don't know something is wrong and shouldn't be punished for it. Maybe some people should get him drunk and get him into a fight so he violates his probation, and doesn't have his record cleared.
He essentially got what he wanted - fame and no penalty.
Crap, my apology, clicked the wrong reply button (I thought I was replying to another post... crap).
In US, you can easily buy enough major firearms to wipe out your neighbourhood but a few little fireworks are banned.
Thou shalt clean up worms, spyware, adware, and public toilets for the rest of your life!
I once had a signature.
What is the difference in the intentions of a 17 years old on the dawn of his 18th birthday. Does the brain automaticaly switch to "responsable and aware of consequences" when he hits 18.
Of course kids that does violent crimes should be tried as adult (maybe not sent to an adult prison).
I mean seriously if a 13 year old kills another kid because he hated him or something like that, it's still a murder and the fact that he is a kid doesnt change how serious it is.
Kids have it too good these days, they know they can do what the f?&$?$ they want till they are 18 and the law protects them.
And it goes for kids doing harm in computers with worms or other viruses.
This will be good.
I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
My brother in-law has what he calls the Guido proposition. That is that everyone in the country should pitch in 1 or two dollars a year to a fund which hires big guys named Guido and Luigi to fly around the world find these virus writers and spammers and well..............I think you get the picture. That would be so much better than jail time.
Madre de Dios! Es El Pollo Diablo! -- Captain Blondebeard
That's OK...your previous post applies to just about any discusion on Slashdot... ^_^
____
~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
The organised crime gangs should be treated even more harshly. This doofus caused damage whether he meant to profit monetarily from it. Many of these folks do expect to profit in name recognition alone, but again damages, not profit is what the courts should be worried about.
That was a quick trial. Took only 3 days. It was just a confession and the fact that he was a minor was probably a no brainer for the judge and lawyers.
Kids do screw up, even ones as old as him, so I think the jail term is okay. However his employment makes it seem only that much more sensational to be a virus writer, as opposed to something that should be completely frowned upon and not rewarded in any shape or form.
Some violent criminals get less than this.
But of course, this is so much worse!
Violent crimes hurt *people*, this just damaged the overwhelming profits of globalist corporations. See me weep with sympathy.
I second the question - is it illegal in Germany to write a worm or virus? Or only to release it?
Same questions regarding the USA ... ?
In all the news reports and discussion of these cases, references to "writing" or "creating", and to releasing or spreading, are used interchangeably. It seems to me there is a big ethical difference and there ought to be a legal difference as well.
Consider the following series - at what point does the actor go wrong (a) ethically (b) legally?
That is the sysadmins around here would like to string him up by.
Most hackers/crackers/ass-clowns-like-this posess a maturity level (though in this case not the moral sense) well beyond their age in years. He knew what he was doing, well knew the consequences, and should have been tried as an adult.
Laziness, check. Impatience, check. Hubris, double check!
Man, that was full of shit.
``if you're going to write a worm, at least don't get caught.''
Yeah. If you're going to roll dice, at least don't roll an even number.
``the problem with people writing viruses is that it will come back to them. it may take some time, but it will be traced, the source will be found.''
What? Are you saying now you can't avoid rolling an even number?
``now he has this on his record, and emplyment, especially in the tech field, is now going to be extremly difficult.''
That must be why he got offered a job for his efforts.
``teenagers writing up worms and viruses need to realize that though it does take skill, there are consequences.''
Take skill? Well, yeah. But it's not like they have to go and figure out an exploit themselves. You can just go to Bugtraq, find a vulnerability that is currently unpatched and has an exploit available, tack on some goodies of your own, and you're all set.
"with great power comes great responsibility"
Which is a message that organizations should heed. With the reports of several organizations' systems getting taken down because of the worm, and the previous worm, and the one before that, and the one after it, and all the others...it all screams to me: "Why can't they hire competent computer staff that keep the computers secure?" If you have to run Windows, at least firewall it - I've seen people run unpatched XP boxen (as in, none of the service packs applied) without any problems, just because they weren't reachable from the net and didn't download any weird stuff. It's not like it's rocket science.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
...if his typical lunch consists of 4 liters of Mountain Dew, 2 dozen donuts, and a meal of ANY sort from Burger King, the pressure from the fat upon his brain is clouding his thought processes. Be gentle^H^H^H^H^H^Hmerciless.
"over and above the dumb teenagers." I didn't realize creating a virus which brought a good portion of the world to its knees classified one as dumb. He's a jackass, but a lot smarter than you, the reporter, are.
Most hackers/crackers/ass-clowns-like-this posess a maturity level (though in this case not the moral sense) well beyond their age in years.
As noted by the pr3v4l3nc3 0f 1337 sp34k, 4w3s0m3 k0d1ng style, and liberal use of the word fag. They are only outmatched in their maturity by the aimbotting n00bs that keep appearing on Enemy Territory and Counterstrike.
I say try them as two adults, they're that mature!
I don't know about you guys, but I did some dumb things before I was 18. There are different punishments for minors for a reason, and saying "it was only a few days before he was 18" doesn't change the fact that he wasn't 18 when he wrote it. Bluring lines in the law makes a weak system.
:
(I'm an ESTJ, if you didn't already know)
--
Check out the Uncyclopedia.org
The only wiki source for politically incorrect non-information about things like Kitten Huffing and Pong! the Movie !
Please allow me to hate the creator of the 120-character limit: *HATES*. Thank you.
1. No sig. 2. ???? 3. Profit!!!
But you neglected to mention this.
I still say we string this little piggy up by his balls! - That little douchebag gave me headaches for ...
fucking weeks
---- "Logoff! That cookie shit makes me nervous!" - A. Soprano
You can't have it both ways. Either they're considered responsible and mature at a younger age and granted all the rights, responsibilities, and privileges of adults, or they're immature kids and are treated accordingly.
Is it funny that he uses traditional Italian names to perpetuate the sterotype that all organized crime "goons" are Italian?
Would it be funny if he talked about "Leroy" and "Tyrone" playing basketball? Or "Shlomo" and "Mordecai" working in a bank? Or "Sanjay" and "Srini" taking my IT job?
For an american company to pursue civil action, they would have to file a civil case in their local courts. The defendant must be served by the plaintiff's counsel who send the documents, along with a USM-94 form (from a US Marshal), to the designated central autohrity in the foreign country. Here is the procedue for the state of New York. All in all it is a process that must go throught the proper foreign diplomatic channels.
Any lawsuit would be a headache, because the crime was technically comitted in Germany (virus released), but the damamge was done here in the United States. Since he is still fairly young, his future wages could be garnished to repay the plantiff.
sooo let me get this straight. a BORED teenager writes a DESTRUCTIVE piece of software, causes MILLIONS and MILLIONS in damage, and simply because of the semantics of AGE he gets a suspended sentence.
Moral of the story: we should all have written a terrible bit of code that caused damage when we were 17 because we would have been offered an excellent security/programming job after the dust settled. Meanwhile, scores of under-appreciated, hardworking, ETHICAL programmers go with no work or very low pay. Justice system? give me 5 minutes alone with "Sven Jaschan". grrrrrrrrr.
letting """kids""" off for this.
ridiculous.
remove his fingers.
The simple fact here is that the punishment he is receiving does not fit the crime in scale and it sends out a really bad message to others in his community that they have a Get Out of Jail Free Card if they are under 18... I'm sorry but teenagers today are in many cases much smarter than adults. If the excuse is whether they are mature enough to distinguish between right and wrong then I question that argument because I think people learn that at around age 10... and if they can't comprehend the difference by age 14 then I would guess there is an issue psychologically. This kid caused millions in damages and should face not only time in prison but also some hefty monetary fines as well.
News Reporters Make Tasty Polar Bear Treats!
Stop being a fucking asshole.
Must be genetic in your case.
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
If you could care less then presumably you don't care as little as you could... so you care a bit. By this approach I conclude that you care. The wonder of misuse of the language...
[retarded /. truncated at my 'less than' sign]
People do all sorts of dumb things when they're [less than] 18.
You know, if it wasn't for those HTML rules, the internet would be so cool....
Unfortunately it's the "organised crime gangs, which are increasingly emerging to make stacks of money through targeted attacks," that ARE the "dumb teenagers"...
We're pleased that the author of the Sasser worm has admitted responsibility for the damage he caused and is being held accountable - Nancy Anderson, Microsoft
That's nice, but how about taking some responsibility yourself? Sure, virus writers are guilty, but the users and the vendors should also take some responsibility- that means Microsoft, Oracle, Redhat and anyone else that distributes software.
If a shop owner leaves the back door to his shop open all night, and a teenager breaks in and steals something... yes, the teenager is ultimately responsible, and should suffer some punishment, but the shop owner is a dumb shit too, and shouldn't get all bent out of shape about getting robbed.
Now replace "leaves the back door open" with "runs Windows on a server", etc.
I have no sympathy for people whining about eleventy billion dollars in damages. Especially since even if you feel you have to run Windows on your server, there was a damn patch for the vulnerability long before the worm came out.
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
That's 5 posts on this article, more than your usual. I suppose you're just upset you didn't get FP on this one.
What happened to your 1337 sig?
This is the German courts though. In the US they may have hung the kid out to dry for this as well (many US bsinesses were severely disrupted), and in Germany the penalties for stealing (or copying as the current publicity tends to center around) a DVD may be different.
So who is really responsible for the damages? Is is the kid who didn't know any better, or is it Microsoft who chose to sell insecure software.
I understand the fact that he exploited an insecure operating system. However, there will always be juveniles in the world, and to sell a mass-market operating system with full knowledge that it can be compromised by an 18 year old with a modicum of intelligence is criminally negligent. Granted, this 18 year old wrote the Sasser worm, but without Microsoft's deliberate negligence regarding security, it would have been merely an academic curiosity or petty nuisance.
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
TMM- I understand your point- however, the sasser is still out there. One must wonder, if you planted a bunch of mines a week before you turned 18, and they went off and injured people after your 18th birthday, was the crime commited as a youth?
This cost a lot of people a lot of money- and it seems that if you commit a crime that has worldwide effect, there should maybe be a larger penalty than a suspended sentence, whether as punishment or deterent.
I know that the laws can't keep up with the tech- on a mostly related note- there was an article in the Free Cleveland independent paper about a mafios guy who was commiting some type of fraud with airline baggage, i.e. insuring a bag for the max, never putting the bag on the plane, and then collecting the lost luggage ins. money. The gist of this, was the guy and his crew made hundreds of thousands of $$ (this was before 911 when airlines were looser) and he said that it was funny that you get caught with 75K$ worth of drugs and you get 25-life, but steal millions through fraud and you get maybe 6 mos max... (this obviously doesn't apply to high profile corporate crimes.)
Anyway, if this kid had done some kind of vandalism to physical structures causes the same monetary damage as his worm, he would be up s*&t creek with no paddle...
And All I Ask is a Tall Ship And a Star to Steer Her By
But his "prank" costs tens, if not hundreds of millions of dollars.
and not one life.
The empire state building cost $40,948,900
and between 5 and hundreds of lives.
A bit of perspective always helps.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
However, in the grand scheme of the virus world, it's the organised crime gangs, which are increasingly emerging to make stacks of money through targeted attacks, that should be dealt the harsh sentences - over and above the dumb teenagers.
If anything, intelligence and security agencies should be recruiting the "dumb teenagers" to act as a fifth column against the organized criminals and terrorists. These bastards will bomb, shoot, behead and otherwise kill people to further their aims, put themselves outside the law and outside of human civilized behavior and since politicians around the world show no inclination to think clearly (when do they ever?) I think we need covert ops against them in the electronic world as much as the external physical world.
As time goes by, and encryption gets better, more and better hackers are going to be needed to crack the systems of these outlaws, compromise their security any way they can, and subvert the situation to force these bastards into the light where non-covert law enforcement can catch them with enough evidence to put them away. Either that or we're going to have to rely on covert assassination to permanently remove them. The third way is to water down our civil liberties and human rights so overt law enforcement can have a better chance at catching them, ala the Patriot Act.
I know which one I prefer.
If my grammar and spelling are off, I am [distracted/tired/careless] (take your pick)
...allegedly wrecked Delta Airlines' systems in Atlanta for seven hours, leading to the cancellation of 40 flights. Around the world,
How is this any different than a normal day on Delta Airlines? They probably figured they could blame their low industry rankings on Sasser.
"You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
...every patch you apply comes with a new ELUA. In this particular case, the EULA was not any more restrictive than the ones already required for Windows....however, this behavior is very disturbing. What happens when the only way to apply the patch that closes a critical loophole requires the acceptance of brand-new and more-restrictive clauses in the EULA?
Nothing is in place to prevent this, and it always makes me think twice before turning on automatic updates.
Create a worm, no jail
Stab a professional tennis player in front of thousands of fan, also no jail
Microsoft is going to give the two people who led to the worm's arrest $250,000 USD to share as a reward.
I'm sick of this "blame the users" attitude - yes, it may be appropriate for a home user, but to a business which depends on its computers for day to day operations, patching is a big deal, and it can't always be done at the pace we'd like. It isn't the fault of the business that Microsoft didn't do it right the first time.
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
In the United States, we take law and order seriously, and this kid would have been tried as an adult. Seriously, why do some people think someone should be able to do whatever they want without consequences just because they did it a few months before their 18th birthday? Suspended sentence, yea, that'll show him!
Good point. This is exactly why there is no statute of limitations on counterfeiting in the US. It's a crime that keeps on giving....
"Is this Winkhorst a nova criminal?" "No just a technical sergeant wanted for interrogation."
Now, how can I get this kid to pay all the damage and wasted time I spent fixing my computers?
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c'mon, if i leave my mobile in the car and it gets stolen, that is my fault ? NO IT IS NOT, i was dumb to leave it there because of the lack of security in the streets but I AM NOT the criminal neither is the car company that makes glasses that can be broken, either way you put it the burgler is the criminal here.
the kid is a criminal and should be dealt with acordingly, it is true that microsoft has bugs and flaws but the attack was mallicious, lets put it other therms, an old man walks with a cane and can not run , a juvenile kicks his ass and steals his wallet , is the old mans fault that he got burglered ? This is the same situation in many companies, they have a deficiency (unsecure OS) but they must live with it and must be left alone living with it.
Make no mistake the kid is no robin wood he did the worm just for spite , people should be hold accountable for what they do no matter what
Jorge Canelhas
http://www.retroreview.com/ - Retro Computing for all
Looks like it's still there unfortunately, sigs are turned off when you see the post you are replying to.
hehe, well I'd assume that the parser is smart enough to know "this isn't an allowed tag, ergo it's a <" but noooo..
Trolling is a art,
wait 20 years or so until people start advocating "computer control" to stop cyber crime
Already today, I'm in favor for requiring that anyone connecting a computer to the Internet be required to pass an exam to prove technical competancy and knowledge of the laws/rules/acceptable behavior for being a "netizen" and also to require operators of Internet-connected computers to be licensed (like drivers, pilots, ham radio operators, etc) plus the equipment itself required to be licensed and meet certain minimum security standards.
When cars first came about, anyone who could buy one could drive it in the cities, then chaos insued and the govt forced licensing of both the vehicles and the drivers. When airplanes first came about, anyone with the money and balls could buy and fly one, then the govt stepped in and required pilots to be trained and licensed (errm, "certificated" -- excuse the fawk outta me for using a lay term) and require recurrent training/ flight reviews and medical exams to prove and re-prove competancy, plus the aircraft has to be repeatedly inspected and meticulously maintained to prove airworthiness and detailed records of everything has to be kept forever. When radio transmitters first came out, anyone who could make or buy one could broadcast at their will, then the FCC was created and to operate any significant powered transmitter, you must have licensed and approved equipment and operators ie ham radio, commercial radio, etc.
It's the same story with computers and the Internet. Too much utter chaos is ruining the usefulness of the Internet. There finally needs to be imposed government licensing and laws to reign in the wild, untamed lawlessness that has turned the Internet into a cesspool today. If the government doesn't do it, then the corporations which are battling to control it certainly will one day. Who do you want to be your "overlords" on the Internet? An overbearing govt bureacracy regulating agency like the FCC or the FAA? Or some tyrranical monopolistic private corporate owner like Microsoft/SBC when they merge? We're gonna have to choose one or the other someday. At least the govt agency option will stand a better chance to prevent one big coproration from owning it all.
"Hackers penetrate and ravage delicate public and privately owned computer systems, infecting them with viruses, and stealing materials for their own ends. These people, they are terrorists." -Richard Gill, Hackers
To quote the director of the department where my girlfriend works, when notified that their competent and intelligent, one-and-only IT guy was leaving:
Really good IT staff look like a bunch of slackers to middle management boneheads.
If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
So they released a patch.
I'm talking about taking responsibility for writing an OS that teenage hackers finds 5 new exploits in every week (without even having access to the source).
I'm talking about taking responsibility for writing an OS that lasts 12 minutes when plugged into the public internet before being owned.
Obviously writing bug free software is not possible. But at least attempting to do so, or better yet at least attempting to care about security at all definitely is.
Thats a bunch of bullshit... A kid wrote a virus, infected/effected millions, but yet hes still a kid? doesnt understand? He sure understands his programming skills but not the effects? please.
-- I Dont Deserve A Sig I Have Bad Karma
Why did they even bother with this farce?
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Why the fuck were any of these critical systems not behind a firewall AND why were they running windows?
An Education is the Font of All Liberty
I don't think at all, that one person should be punished harder just to teach OTHERS not to break the law.
It's like I would get one slap on the face for stealing apples, and since all the neighbourhood was watching the slapping, I get another slap to teach others a lesson... Punishment should NOT get bigger because of any other person MIGHT do the same.
Deterrent-punishments sucks.
-Is the meaning of life vanity, or is vanity the meaning of life?
Good to know harsh sentences are working for you and you have the lowest crime rate in the world!
+9 (112) 394-4938
ask for jacob if my mom picks up.
Actually, if you steal a movie, you'll probably get a slap on the wrist. (shoplifting)
Now if you are guilty of copyright infringement, then your head shall roll.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
Arn't we boiling over with rage towards our fellow humans! Remove his fingers.. yes, yes, that's it. Cut the hands of of thieves, remove the fingers of computer criminals, cut the heads off of murderous swine, chop the arms off of infidels.. justice truly is a sword!
rendition
You people really need to get a fucking life. I don't care if you want to run your anti-slash site and poke your fun and point out the inconsistencies. In fact, I found some of them rather entertaining. But I really don't see how you can preach what you do while spamming the discussion boards all the same. This really just goes to show what kind of low life losers you really are, that you can't manage to get the word out about your site through normal, respectable channels, but have to resort to such childish tactics as this.
Fuck off.
I wanted to buy a candle holder, but the store didn't have one. So I got a cake.
and people just didn't patch. What everyone hates about this kid so much is that he caught the IT world with it's pants down. And BTW, why the heck was an _airline_ running non-mission critical software connected to a public network anyway. Boy, that makes me feal real safe.
There's intent in criminal law you know, it's not like this kid is a terrorist. You're just bitter because he made a fool of the IT industry, of which you are probably part.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Now he can receive the daily anal raping he so richly deserves.
Ever notice how the National Org. for Women cares so much about rape until it is men getting raped?
That is because they are not the Nat. Org for Equality. Men to them are nothing but sperm donors with wallets, whose function is to produce children (preferabley female), pay for them, and die as quickly as possible. Equality doesn't matter to them when men die 9 years sooner than women. That is because to the NOW men are less than human.
You must be dating guys who have numbers above a million. Any self respecting slashdotter would first focus on Open Office.
Shouldn't that be
I suppose having a 'girl' nickname and your momma always dressing you up in cute little dresses was probably traumatic, but jeez, go get some therapy or something.
Boo hoo! Poor corporations losing 100 MILLION BIGILLION DOLLARS (raise pinky finger to corner of mouth) because they built their IT infrastructure on technology that has been PROVEN to be so insecure that continued usage border on negligence.
Mission critical, my ass!
Here's my analogy...
Two guy have all their tools locked away in toolboxes. One man uses twine to secure his case, while the other uses a padlock. During the night, both cases are forcibly opened and emptied by thieves. Was a crime committed against both parties? Yes. Did both parties take equal measures to prevent such a crime from happening? NO. Frankly, I'd have much less sympathy for the man who simply tied his toolbox shut.
Generally speaking, most black-hats will take the path of least resistance and go for the easy target. Microsoft has consistently helped them along the way.
He was tried in a country where paranoia and "revenge justice" is quite out of the law books. Also, a country (an continent) where the media companies do not own half of the Legislative body. By the same vein, in China he would have probably get life in jail or death.
Also, you'd be "in civil court suing the hell out of him right now" just to see your case fall apart the minute your CIO is called to testify that, yes, you have 3000 people working in your IT department and yes, none of them read the warnings or installed the patches Microsoft issued weeks early. "'Cos ya know, mein Judge, we don't deserve to be infected just because we're dumb".
Means that blame is apportioned according to ability to pay.
The kid has nothing, therefore his portion of blame is trivial.
M$ has the cash, therefore they bear the burden of blame.
C'mon, this is law 101. WTF do you think that the lawyers and judges studied in law school? Follow the money.
sigs are for losers (except to point out that sigs are for losers)
>People take the computer too lightly, like it was a TV set or something.
> It's more like a small nuclear bomb in each home
No, a computer is much more like a TV set that a small nuclear bomb.
You're both wrong. A computer (with Internet connection) is more like a powerful radio/tv broadcasting transmitter in the home, with the capability for interfering with, or sabotaging the other systems on the Internet. The FCC (in the USA) regulates who can operate and do what with a radio or TV broadcasting station. Computers on the Internet need similar regulation and the time for that is now.
I totally agree. I'm positive the designers of Windows 3.1 and NT should have had the foresight to create in-depth security features and firewalls, just in case some teenager tried to crack their system with a stack-overflow virus off that DARPA internet thing...
Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
That strange anti-slash link is posted on slashdot and there are still only 7 people (guest) online at the moment. Cmon how lame is that?
But who actually thinks the vulnerabilities that virus exploited would have been patched if he hadn't written Sasser? Microsoft even had a patch available and look what happened. Sasser caught most of the IT security industry with their pants down.
Direct away from face when opening.
Lets go after the kid who upset the apple cart because he breathed in the wrong direction, causing a leaf on one of the apples to bend half a micron one way, causing an imbalance in the cart with the result that the whole thing fell over. When is proper punishment given to the stupid companies and their craptacularly bad products? You can say 'oh, you did bad', but any half-assed system would be able to resist the crap floating around. It's time the bubble-gum, haywire and duct tape artists got their asses kicked, and force them to create products that don't suck. Further, those who support their stupid products deserve a large smack upside the head with a clue-by-4 too. Wake up dummy!, they aren't going to fix it! Maybe you deserve to have your system broken if you can't figure it out by now! Here's a hint: if the 'fix' to the system was a true and proper 'fix', then ALL of the virus problems would go away at once. And don't say it can't be done! Others have done it, and don't get hit by viruses! I laugh my ass off when someone gets a virus! I don't get them myself because I have a quality system. And quit yer whinin about 'it's broken again'. Your stupid buying decisions are your own fault. There was an old saying "Screw me over once, shame on you! Screw me over twice, shame on me! Anyone who keeps bending over and complaining about viruses again and again deserves to get screwed over. If you're too stupid to keep bending over and over and over, you deserve a really sore bum!
Have you seen the mountains of paperwork that Sarbanes-Oxley has caused?
You have to test & validate & fully document (and prove your tests & results) in many cases.
Can't simply "apply the patch ASAP" these days.. even an emergency patch will take *hours* to install, test, and document BEFORE applying it to live financial systems.
Ugh. Piss on legislation.
I don't know how many 17-year old "children" you have seen, but at that age, these "children" are capable of physically overpowering quite a few adults.
This doofus caused damage whether he meant to profit monetarily from it. Many of these folks do expect to profit in name recognition alone, but again damages, not profit is what the courts should be worried about.
I can't agree.
When someone is writing viruses for the fun of it or the notoriety, running them through the legal mill and giving them a small punishment (the first time) is quite likely to convince them that repeating is a bad idea. (If it doesn't, hit them harder the SECOND time.)
This is the electronic equivalent of non-gang graffiti. Yes it's costly to clean it up and causes problems meanwhile. But you don't throw a kid in jail for fifty years and fine him ever cent he'll ever make the first time he's caught defacing something (even something very big - or caused a traffic accident by confusing a driver).
When someone is writing viruses as part of a lucrative business plan there are two factors arguing for harsher punishment:
1) He's got a financial incentive to continue, so it takes a large punishment to tilt the balance and convince him to find another line of work.
2) He's planned this in detail and taken into account the harm his business model will cause to the people whose resources he appropriates - and chosen to go ahead and line his own pockets at severe cost to others.
Premeditation, conversion, continuing criminal enterprise. That IS organized crime. And it's exactly the pernicious, industrial-scale, large-net-loss-for-citizens activity that the draconian penalties were intended to stop.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
You have to remember that at 17 or 18 years old, obviously he's got some sort of computer knowledge, but that doesn't necessarily add up to "he's old enough to be tried as an adult". He probably really had no idea how many systems would be infected or what the results of his actions would be... when I was 17 or 18 I didn't know jack shit about the business world, and he probably really didn't either. There's no telling what he thought it would do, but I bet he was surprised as hell at what actually happened.
It's not like he woke up one morning and said, "Yeah, I think I'm going to fuck up some businesses today". He was fooling around with something that looked interesting to him, and probably made him feel cool (like some kids smoke, or whatever). At 17 or 18 most kids just can't equate what they are doing that very second to "lung cancer when I'm 40". There's absolutely no understanding of what being 40 means. None.
That having been said, they should put the little bastard on the help desk for his 2 years!
Because in this case, the guy with padlock still has his tools. The other tard is still the victim of a crime, but he learned a lesson. There's a reason everyone locks thier houses and cars. It'd be a nicer world if you could just leave your shit lying wherever and it would still be there 2 days later, but that ain't where we live. Where we live people will steal your children and kill them. Use a damn lock! Also, get a gun and a webcam.
Moran.
-Rick
Gun crime is increasing (that's going up for the slower readers) in England since they banned them - morOn.
I think you may have inappropriately capitalized the letter O in moron. :)
The number of years since your birth is what should be irrelevant. What matters is your maturity level and how well you grasp the crux of what you did. If a child genius who's more mature than a 25 year old murders his parents to collect life insurance, should he be tried as an adult or a minor?
Laziness, check. Impatience, check. Hubris, double check!
He was tried as a MINOR? Christ, even 15-year-olds aren't tried as minors in Texas. Don't these crazy krauts know that you're supposed to hold the suspect until they're 18, then try them as an adult?
Thing is, there were consequences. He was convicted and a sentence passed. Hopefully he won't be silly enough to re-offend.
What other consequences would you suggest?
-- Using the preview button since 2005
Looks like I got away with it.
I agree that we as network managers bare some of the responsibility, I find many networks don't keep up with patches, virus signatures or even prevent loading of software by the users. I think my network is pretty relaxed when it comes to letting users do there own thing but I never was affected by Sasser, my server are patched religiously and virus definition files watched carefully.
" If a shop owner leaves the back door to his shop open all night, and a teenager breaks in and steals something... yes, the teenager is ultimately responsible, and should suffer some punishment, but the shop owner is a dumb shit too, and shouldn't get all bent out of shape about getting robbed.
Now replace "leaves the back door open" with "runs Windows on a server", etc.'
When your so-called secure linux server gets ransacked, you'll wake up and realize that Linux isn't secure either. No code written in c is secure. You can't prove Linux is secure, and I can show plenty of counter-examples which show it isn't at any given point in time.
Your analogy sucks because Windows does include security measures. A better analogy would be saying the person breaking in to the shop licked the lock. Certainly effort was used to bypass security measures in Windows, so your analogy of simply walking into an open door is misleading.
Vote for Pedro
"Apple is for fags! Beleive me, I know what I'm talking about!"
Because you own a Mac and therefore are a...
Atleast his parents don't have to worry about the normal teenage nonsense like pre-marital sex.
I've got to agree with you on this...How Monkey manages to spread his karma-whoring legs wider than ninety drgrees remains a mystery to me. Yet he still manages to do it.
-1, Offtopic -- I'll take it!
I report to Colonel 2.6.1 and General Chaos is his boss.
There have been recent studies (my Google search isn't refined enough to turn one up though) that indicate that brain developement of long-term consequence recognition isn't complete until around age twenty-five.
I guess that's why we (U.S. centric comment) allow minors to drive, and eighteen-year-olds into the military and allow them to vote!
I report to Colonel 2.6.1 and General Chaos is his boss.
A suspended sentence after causing that much havoc? Poor judgment you say? Bullshit. Even a ten-year-old knows the difference in this case.
But this just shows that the German judicial is so lax on offenders. Same thing with the case of Armin Meiwes. That guy lured a person to his home, sodomized him, amputated his penis, and let him bleed out. The bastard then slit the man's throat, carved him up, and ate him over the course of months. When he was tried, he was convicted of only manslaughter, and got only 8 years!!!
Not to mention the fact that both the victim and the perpetrator were both homosexuals....But I'll get back to that.
I'll explain why Germany's justice system is such a joke. It's because the German government has been brow-beaten for the last sixty years, to be as vehemently opposed to the days of the great Third Reich as they are now. They're too cowardly to look upon their previous glory with pride.
When Germany had it right (between 33 and 45), they would have done away with this little faggot in no time. Anyone causing public havoc or buggery would have been vanquished.
The underlying force here is that of international jewry. The jews are (and have always been) the ultimate spin doctors. So much, that they can pressure the German government into such lax justice, to further exacerbate their evil motives.
In the Miewes case, it would have never even gotten to trial. Infact, the crime wouldn't have even happened, because that homosexual would have been chimney soot before he even thought about conceiving it. Same thing with his homo victim.
I blame Hollywood, Kissinger, Einstein, Speilberg, Jerry Seinfeld, Mitnick, Kemeny, Dershowitz, and Leonard Cohen.
The same thing happened in Canada. Just look at the Karla Homolka case. She's out after 12 years. Why? Well jews of course. The french are to blame, too.
The German people used to be proud and superior. Gone are the days of jack-booted aryan style. Now they're just a bunch of pussies who can't even lay down the law on an anti-social prick like this kid. I'm sorry to say it, but the jews have won. Eternal Jews indeed.
--What did the white jew say to the black jew....Answer..."Hey you....Back of the oven!!!"
if he can write a virus overcoming multiple firewall, he is anything but dumb.. they should cultivate his intelligence and put it to good use :D
"Steal a Movie, get fined Thousands of dollars, go to Jail for dozens of years, never expect to use a computer or have any rights or freedoms again.
"
Jail time only applies to releasing a not-yet-released movie onto the internet. This can result in a loss of millions in revenue for a major film. It doesn't apply to the average p2p sharer. If anything the sentence on the Sasar worm creator was extremely light, not what you're trying to argue, badly.
Vote for Pedro
because that saucer worm ruined half their fleet. They are flush green with anger. (BTW, you mispelled "saucer". It does not have 2 esses.)
Table-ized A.I.
anyone ever tell you of something called diversity? im 16 and live in australia, this is just a news site, geez, im not some mind controlled geek, and im sure alot of people here arnt either, some days news is boring, and if you dont understand it, well, even more so, and im sure anti-slash is going to be a whole lot better, PLEASE tell us how your date with this john guy goes because id like to either praise you for finding someone you like, or tease the crap out of you for being wrong... (sorry if that seemed harsh)
Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job. - HHGTTG
...they want you to STFU. Quit complaining just because you cannot get "Frist Psot" anymore.
Ever wonder why you post at -1 now and can only be modded down while TMM gets tons of positive mods? It's because you can't get better karma. You don't know how. Why? Because you live such a trailer-park lifestyle that you can only act bitter; you cannot be kind and tolerant and a good sport around those who best you.
w00t! Go f*** yourself indeed. Do it right up your filthy anus!
^_^
--
Trolling the trolls since um...June 2005.
I'm with you, stardust. A quick, fair, public trial and hang the fellow immediately afterwards. Forward chaps, against the common enemy - and a very common lot they are too. BUT COULD WE PLEASE STOP BEING SILLY ???
How many beans make five, anyhow ?
Yes, jailtime is bad... but IMHO the time to nab these kids is before they become criminals, not by handing them deals as security advisors etc afterwards as it glorifies the crime itself. Punishments must be given, they should just be in line with the crime committed.
If you're worried about individuals with potential being swayed to the "dark side," then perhaps we should have more places for them to prove themselves or give them more opportunities beforehand... last time I checked ofr scholarships I would have done a whole lot better as a sports-team player or if I had parents in rotary than based on my intellectual merits.